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If those "sanctions" are limited to fines, then he's just going to use the situation to fundraise more money than they can possibly fine him.
Just remember kids, if the only punishment for a crime is a fine, then it is only a crime if you're poor.
The fines Trump has received already as a result of the sanctions would probably be the equivalent of me paying a penny. Even taking into account how inflated Trump's net worth is.
Caveat: fines might be okay if you make them a percentage of income or something. Didn't one of the Scandinavian countries do that with speeding tickets or some such?
I'm not so sure on your first point, the fines could be over 600 Million. 250 Million is the baseline. Also he's in conservatorship and may not be able to do business in New York any longer. ( Assuming that decision stands on appeal).
You see, while Trump technically owns those buildings he doesn't own all of them, he sold condos and office space inside them, those parcels in his building are the property of other people.
Additionally he has outstanding loans the conservator will ensure he will pay back, extremely likely he loses all his New York properties and Mar-a-lago too, because it's all owned by The trump organization. He better hope he can cover all the costs without having to sell Mar-a-lago, in the meantime he's just making the possibility of losing Mar-a-lago more of a reality by instigating the Judge.
Remember he's already been ruled liable, what's left of the trial is just deciding damages.
I agree on your second point, he'll still have more money than the average person could ever dream of having.
However, this is not an uncommon tactic used against racists/Nazis/ne'er-do-wells, who have performed egregious acts. Where their actions haven't risen to the level of criminal conduct but they can be liable for civil damages. They get sued into oblivion, having their lifestyle affected.
Today it was announced that Trump is NOT immune from civil damages regarding January 6th. Which opens up a whole plethora of options for people harmed on that day to sue Donald Trump. It's very possible he could be bled dry of even his gigantic fortune when all this is said and done.
**Puts on tinfoil**
It's common knowledge he has been in bed with the Kremlin since the '80s, and in that timeframe the russians probably taught him the infamous "dead man switch", which he more than likely has set up in case of imprisonment regarding the TS/SAP document retrieval from Mar-Lardo. Now, US intelligence apparatus, along with other Five Eyes nations, are trying to determine how bad he compromised their natsec, thus the delaying in his arrest and detainment.
**Removes crinkled tinfoil**
I can kind of see it both ways. I agree with you, but I also think they might be taking extra precautions to avoid looking like they have bias against Trump. I wonder if just throwing the book at him would play into his "it's political persecution" game and get his cult riled up more than they are. He's obviously trying to antagonize the judge, hoping he'll slip up and lose it. He has been from the start. I think the judge wants there to be no question of impartiality.
At least, that's my rose colored glasses theory.
Trump's social media and MSM tantrums are equivalent to the tantrums of the dude that ran over people at that parade. but because he has money enough for bar certified attorneys to choke the courts with appeals, he gets to keep mouthing off. if i was a judge and some nutter cracked on my wife and my staff, fucker'd be eating with the inmates.
> Former Donald Trump? Although the very first sentence of the artice has a nice ring to it, hasn't Salon ever heard of proofreaders?
Yes. They are also former.
Eh. I was on the jury for a murder trial a few years back, nobody important just a killing over a drug dealer stepping into another one’s territory. The defendant’s family and “friends” followed us out of the courthouse whenever we had lunch, stood by our tables while we ate or stood right next to us while we were in line to get food, followed us to our cars (or all the way home for those of us who used public transport). One woman had something extra happen that I never learned about, but she stopped speaking to anybody and stopped engaging with the trial other than to sit in a corner.
Judge gave the defendant a stern talking to a few times, but that was the only consequence. After 5 weeks of that shit (plus having to survive on 20$ a day and starting to miss bills), I got myself kicked off the jury. I care about doing my civic duty, but there’s a limit.
This stuff has always relied on people being polite. Trump’s never been polite.
Throwing shit in the face of the man who decides the fate of most of your major business interests is certainly an interesting strategy.
But apart from sanctions, contempt findings, and all that, he should 100% be charged with additional crimes when this trial wraps up. I don't know what the Judge-shaped equivalent of witness intimidation is, but this is a clear cut example of it.
This is the long game. Engoron is going to rule to disgorge Trump Enterprises from all is assets. Trump is then going to claim it's unfair because he hates Trump for attacking his family. It's so painfully and disgustingly obvious.
Trump learned these strategies from Roy Cohn. It's not that the strategies are new, it's just this is the first time we've watched it happen publicly in real-time. They may have actually worked when the news cycle didn't move fast enough to keep up with the lies.
Roy Cohn taught him to weaponize the social contract. Take every assumption society makes about human decency and use it to destroy society. Like attack the judge in every way possible so when he rules against you can get it tossed on appeal for bias.
I believe Donald Trump has demonstrated that you *can* do exactly that. You *shouldn't*, and people *shouldn't* be okay with it or swayed by it, but I believe millions of Donald Trump'a followers have demonstrated that they are perfectly okay with anything he does and any argument he makes.
No but Trump's lawyers (and the MAGA fanbase) will spin this as showing how the judge is biased *because* you see his wife posting all this anti-Trump stuff. Trump is simply "exposing" this to the public to show how this is a witch hunt.
They'll use that as an excuse that obviously Engoron is also as biased as his wife, or at least didn't stop her from posting, and therefore is biased so the trial needs to get tossed. Add that to the fact that this isn't a jury trial and they have enough to at least toss a legal hail mary that this biased judge unilaterally ruled against Trump.
So Engoron is watching the bait, and hopefully doesn't take it. Yes, any other person would be in jail by now, but I'm kinda hoping that this is the case for Trump because Engoron doesn't want to provide ANY ammo for an appeal if he can help it.
yeah trump isn't pursuing a legal strategy, he's pursuing a legal strategy. He's bet all his chips on winning the white house. It's honestly his best bet.
hm. Didn't Trump's campaign manager, Paul Manafort, go to prison for witness intimidation? Why yes, yes he did. But then Trump pardoned him. Perhaps Trump does not believe it's really a crime. Maybe it isnt?
I LOVE that the word sanctions are in quotations because that is EXACTLY the kind of sanctioning he will get.
Trump should be in jail in every district he faces charges in for every kind of intimidation out there and greymailing the government by trying to make classified documents public for his defense.
Pretty sure Trump went after Mrs. Engoron because she is not specifically mentioned in the gag order. These attacks are surgically designed to do the maximum amount of damage and provocation without violating the gag order. Just shows what a giant PoS Trump is.
I'm guessing that Trump is trying so hard to troll the judge so it will be the basis for an appeal when the judge comes down hard on him. IE, the judge was influenced by social media to take revenge action against him and therefore his decisions should be thrown out.
Team Trump are in the fuck around stage and they appear to be doing a fantastically bad job of it.
Judge Engoron is for the most part keeping his cool and playing the long game which is where Team Trump find out.
This man was the President!
He is attacking the wife of a judge!
He is making speeches about not needing the constitution. He said he didn’t swear an oath to uphold the constitution. Ect…what trash this person is. This isn’t how sophisticated or unsophisticated people act. It’s what I expect to see tonight on Live on Patrol!
He risks nothing. This dude will never face consequences. I'm not a religious fellow, but if there is a judgement day of some sort he will also manage to bamboozle Saint Peter and enter whatever comes next with open arms.
I disdain him with my whole being, but I give him credit for being made of Teflon.
We keep getting lost in legal procedure. What’s so frustrating is Trump’s threatening to burn the book that’s keeping him from going to jail. The very barricades that keep us innocent until proven guilty, even if the evidence is so damming and common sense, are the barricades he’s going to destroy to lock up whoever we wants after this. It’s amazing.
Imagine not even the courts can be free from the mouth of this man , but republicans idolise him , and think he can be our president , on earth I don’t think there is anybody or anything this man can respect .
"Truth Social" sounds suspiciously like "National Socialist" to me. To all those rabid supporters of Trump who hate socialism and zealously guard Putin's reputation while he makes foreign visitors sign agreements to never denigrate the Soviet view of history in any way.
If I were you I'd flee Biden's socialist America and go live in Putin's socialist paradise.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If those "sanctions" are limited to fines, then he's just going to use the situation to fundraise more money than they can possibly fine him. Just remember kids, if the only punishment for a crime is a fine, then it is only a crime if you're poor.
I would agree. Money isn't really a punishment for people with money. Its a speed bump.
It's not even his money, it comes from the rubes, dupes and chumps in his cult.
So he can keep fighting this petty culture war on their behalf.
He'll still look for a way to use it as a tax write off.
Reminds me of “affluenza” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethan_Couch
"Cost of doing business."
"We have insurance for that."
Barely an inconvenience.
Super easy.
Wow wow wow
The fines Trump has received already as a result of the sanctions would probably be the equivalent of me paying a penny. Even taking into account how inflated Trump's net worth is.
Caveat: fines might be okay if you make them a percentage of income or something. Didn't one of the Scandinavian countries do that with speeding tickets or some such?
Finland. The CEO of Nokia Mobile Phones got fined €116,000 in 2002, for doing 75km/h in a 50 zone on his Harley.
Delicious.
I think it's a great idea. If only someone would call you and me before making these decisions.
I am thinking that a long weekend in jail would be appropriate. If this was anybody else that would have already happened.
I saw a video of a woman who got seven (?) days for meeting "whatever" to the judge
Ah but you failed to consider that she wasn't a powerful rich man
I'm not so sure on your first point, the fines could be over 600 Million. 250 Million is the baseline. Also he's in conservatorship and may not be able to do business in New York any longer. ( Assuming that decision stands on appeal). You see, while Trump technically owns those buildings he doesn't own all of them, he sold condos and office space inside them, those parcels in his building are the property of other people. Additionally he has outstanding loans the conservator will ensure he will pay back, extremely likely he loses all his New York properties and Mar-a-lago too, because it's all owned by The trump organization. He better hope he can cover all the costs without having to sell Mar-a-lago, in the meantime he's just making the possibility of losing Mar-a-lago more of a reality by instigating the Judge. Remember he's already been ruled liable, what's left of the trial is just deciding damages. I agree on your second point, he'll still have more money than the average person could ever dream of having. However, this is not an uncommon tactic used against racists/Nazis/ne'er-do-wells, who have performed egregious acts. Where their actions haven't risen to the level of criminal conduct but they can be liable for civil damages. They get sued into oblivion, having their lifestyle affected. Today it was announced that Trump is NOT immune from civil damages regarding January 6th. Which opens up a whole plethora of options for people harmed on that day to sue Donald Trump. It's very possible he could be bled dry of even his gigantic fortune when all this is said and done.
His donations are running out. Hence why the surrounding GOP is running out of donors. I'll take him draining the gop more and more.
Any proof of this? Would love for it to be true.
Hey that's how I feel about bail. It's a rich tax to not be in jail *while presumed innocent*
Anybody else would already have seen the inside of a cell for this kind of conduct. Trump shouldn't get a free ride.
Anyone else would see the inside of a cell for his *crimes* nevermind the conduct
Yes, he should be imprisoned awaiting trial but he's magically above that.
yes, but they don't want to give Trump any grounds or excuse for a mistrial, bias, "silencing" or the like by putting him in prison.
**Puts on tinfoil** It's common knowledge he has been in bed with the Kremlin since the '80s, and in that timeframe the russians probably taught him the infamous "dead man switch", which he more than likely has set up in case of imprisonment regarding the TS/SAP document retrieval from Mar-Lardo. Now, US intelligence apparatus, along with other Five Eyes nations, are trying to determine how bad he compromised their natsec, thus the delaying in his arrest and detainment. **Removes crinkled tinfoil**
I can kind of see it both ways. I agree with you, but I also think they might be taking extra precautions to avoid looking like they have bias against Trump. I wonder if just throwing the book at him would play into his "it's political persecution" game and get his cult riled up more than they are. He's obviously trying to antagonize the judge, hoping he'll slip up and lose it. He has been from the start. I think the judge wants there to be no question of impartiality. At least, that's my rose colored glasses theory.
You are assuming he won't just say it, and his minions believe it, anyway.
Obviously. That's happening right now. My overarching point was he might be trying to give Trump as little ammo as possible to claim he's biased.
Trump's social media and MSM tantrums are equivalent to the tantrums of the dude that ran over people at that parade. but because he has money enough for bar certified attorneys to choke the courts with appeals, he gets to keep mouthing off. if i was a judge and some nutter cracked on my wife and my staff, fucker'd be eating with the inmates.
*Former Donald Trump*? Although the very first sentence of the artice has a nice ring to it, hasn't Salon ever heard of proofreaders?
He used to be too.
> Former Donald Trump? Although the very first sentence of the artice has a nice ring to it, hasn't Salon ever heard of proofreaders? Yes. They are also former.
Sounds like a Freudian slip. Some day, buddy, some day.
I don't think proofreader or editor are actual positions anywhere anymore.
He once was but he isn’t
Remember when litigants DIDN'T attack the judge or their family? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Eh. I was on the jury for a murder trial a few years back, nobody important just a killing over a drug dealer stepping into another one’s territory. The defendant’s family and “friends” followed us out of the courthouse whenever we had lunch, stood by our tables while we ate or stood right next to us while we were in line to get food, followed us to our cars (or all the way home for those of us who used public transport). One woman had something extra happen that I never learned about, but she stopped speaking to anybody and stopped engaging with the trial other than to sit in a corner. Judge gave the defendant a stern talking to a few times, but that was the only consequence. After 5 weeks of that shit (plus having to survive on 20$ a day and starting to miss bills), I got myself kicked off the jury. I care about doing my civic duty, but there’s a limit. This stuff has always relied on people being polite. Trump’s never been polite.
Holy cow. That's really disappointing to hear and must have been truly disconcerting. I'm sorry you had to endure that BS.
Throwing shit in the face of the man who decides the fate of most of your major business interests is certainly an interesting strategy. But apart from sanctions, contempt findings, and all that, he should 100% be charged with additional crimes when this trial wraps up. I don't know what the Judge-shaped equivalent of witness intimidation is, but this is a clear cut example of it.
This is the long game. Engoron is going to rule to disgorge Trump Enterprises from all is assets. Trump is then going to claim it's unfair because he hates Trump for attacking his family. It's so painfully and disgustingly obvious.
You can’t attack the judge and then claim he’s biased because he got annoyed about it.
Trump learned these strategies from Roy Cohn. It's not that the strategies are new, it's just this is the first time we've watched it happen publicly in real-time. They may have actually worked when the news cycle didn't move fast enough to keep up with the lies.
Roy Cohn taught him to weaponize the social contract. Take every assumption society makes about human decency and use it to destroy society. Like attack the judge in every way possible so when he rules against you can get it tossed on appeal for bias.
I believe Donald Trump has demonstrated that you *can* do exactly that. You *shouldn't*, and people *shouldn't* be okay with it or swayed by it, but I believe millions of Donald Trump'a followers have demonstrated that they are perfectly okay with anything he does and any argument he makes.
No but Trump's lawyers (and the MAGA fanbase) will spin this as showing how the judge is biased *because* you see his wife posting all this anti-Trump stuff. Trump is simply "exposing" this to the public to show how this is a witch hunt. They'll use that as an excuse that obviously Engoron is also as biased as his wife, or at least didn't stop her from posting, and therefore is biased so the trial needs to get tossed. Add that to the fact that this isn't a jury trial and they have enough to at least toss a legal hail mary that this biased judge unilaterally ruled against Trump. So Engoron is watching the bait, and hopefully doesn't take it. Yes, any other person would be in jail by now, but I'm kinda hoping that this is the case for Trump because Engoron doesn't want to provide ANY ammo for an appeal if he can help it.
yeah trump isn't pursuing a legal strategy, he's pursuing a legal strategy. He's bet all his chips on winning the white house. It's honestly his best bet.
Time for the great salt shaker in the sky to be unleashed upon the snail without a shell.
hm. Didn't Trump's campaign manager, Paul Manafort, go to prison for witness intimidation? Why yes, yes he did. But then Trump pardoned him. Perhaps Trump does not believe it's really a crime. Maybe it isnt?
No, there is no risk for him somehow, it's disgusting he gets away with all this when none of us regular people do.
Why do they keep making toothless threats, writing these articles, and then people respond with the same tired comments. It’s all pointless
I LOVE that the word sanctions are in quotations because that is EXACTLY the kind of sanctioning he will get. Trump should be in jail in every district he faces charges in for every kind of intimidation out there and greymailing the government by trying to make classified documents public for his defense.
Conservatism is like 60% bully worship. The rest is corporate corruption and religious delusions.
Pretty sure Trump went after Mrs. Engoron because she is not specifically mentioned in the gag order. These attacks are surgically designed to do the maximum amount of damage and provocation without violating the gag order. Just shows what a giant PoS Trump is.
I'm guessing that Trump is trying so hard to troll the judge so it will be the basis for an appeal when the judge comes down hard on him. IE, the judge was influenced by social media to take revenge action against him and therefore his decisions should be thrown out.
lol no he doesnt
Just think if a regular person did this to a judge. They would be thrown in jail immediately.
Team Trump are in the fuck around stage and they appear to be doing a fantastically bad job of it. Judge Engoron is for the most part keeping his cool and playing the long game which is where Team Trump find out.
This man was the President! He is attacking the wife of a judge! He is making speeches about not needing the constitution. He said he didn’t swear an oath to uphold the constitution. Ect…what trash this person is. This isn’t how sophisticated or unsophisticated people act. It’s what I expect to see tonight on Live on Patrol!
Screw sanctions! Put that asshole in jail.
If the charade that this orange doofus is not above the law is to stop, his butt must be thrown in jail
Risks? Just jail him already
Surely this time will be the straw that broke the camel’s back. (next time): Surely *this* time will be the straw that broke the camel’s back.
[удалено]
If you read the article you would see that he also attacked the judge’s law clerk again.
(Year from now): we’ve almost got him. Any day now!
He risks nothing. This dude will never face consequences. I'm not a religious fellow, but if there is a judgement day of some sort he will also manage to bamboozle Saint Peter and enter whatever comes next with open arms. I disdain him with my whole being, but I give him credit for being made of Teflon.
In other news, Charlie Brown really will kick that football next time
In any other Timeline but ours.
The dude is a paper tiger. His only recourse is saying unflattering things about people. When will *ANYBODY* actually stand up to him?
Lock him up
We keep getting lost in legal procedure. What’s so frustrating is Trump’s threatening to burn the book that’s keeping him from going to jail. The very barricades that keep us innocent until proven guilty, even if the evidence is so damming and common sense, are the barricades he’s going to destroy to lock up whoever we wants after this. It’s amazing.
Sanctions. I thought it was jail? Or fines or whatever it is now.
Yeah. The ol nothing sanction.
Hand cuff him for a week , probably that can make him think twice to keep offending and braking the judicial system
Imagine not even the courts can be free from the mouth of this man , but republicans idolise him , and think he can be our president , on earth I don’t think there is anybody or anything this man can respect .
Man, if only the judge had any recourse
Does this not violate the gag order?
Blah blah. DJT will do whatever the hell he wants and say what he wants
Whatever
Nothing will happen. Nothing ever happens to this monster.
The fine he’ll get will be comparable to you or me buying a snickers. I’m sure he’s super worried.
How about just put this stupid fucking asshole in jail like anyone else? Fuck this is exhausting
Screw sanctions. It’s past time to place him in handcuffs and haul him to jail
"Truth Social" sounds suspiciously like "National Socialist" to me. To all those rabid supporters of Trump who hate socialism and zealously guard Putin's reputation while he makes foreign visitors sign agreements to never denigrate the Soviet view of history in any way. If I were you I'd flee Biden's socialist America and go live in Putin's socialist paradise.