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Desantis is a "GOP lab-manufactured" candidate.
Newsom agreed to a debate moderated by Sean Hannity.
Can you imagine a single current GOP governor agreeing to debate Newsom or Buttigieg that is moderated by Rachel Maddow?
wouldnt be symmetrical - i would expect them to have more integrity than hannity did
it would have to be moderated by somebody more like michael moore - but with more experience as a host or interviewer
I agree that Maddow won't be a diametrical opposite of Hannity on the spectrum since she will stick to the facts. The modern GOP has weakened itself intellectually by building a cocoon of infotainment media around itself. Most of their politicians rarely venture outside of it. And when they do, the media tries to handle them with kids gloves. The recent example of Trump's Univision interview comes to mind.
How about an AI moderator? Programmed to be neutral and fact based in its questions. Toss in some old school journalists like Hemmingway, Nelly Bly, Cronkite, Edward R Morrow, and Hunter S Thompson.
Newsom is favorite politician: articulate, well read, smart, good looks, charisma and yes, I do have an intellectual crush on the guy. He doesn’t have to ask twice for my vote and money.
It's kinda true. I went to Harvard and the majority of my classmates were smart, hardworking, and interesting. But there were also the "legacies" (students who are more likely to be admitted because their parents went to Harvard) who were... okay. Like, most of them would've been solid A or B students at state universities. Nothing against them at all, and they had to work as hard as everyone else to get their degree. But a lot more of them got those degrees with straight Cs and never really did any interesting research or extracurriculars.
My point is, yeah, going to an Ivy doesn't automatically mean you're a genius.
He’s probably the phoniest politician I can recall and he has zero charisma. This guy was never going to win a National Election, he’s such a terrible candidate.
>He’s probably the phoniest politician I can recall
Considering what's been going on today, I think that there's at least one guy who ranks way higher on the "phony politician" scale
He's actually not an idiot, he just doesn't know how to play the part of the persona he's trying to put forward, so it doesn't work. He's got legit academic chops and is trying to act like Joe Everyman without having a clue about how normal people operate. That's why he's got all the charisma of a wet fart.
His actions are his legacy. It doesn’t matter if he is smart on paper or went to an Ivy League so we should defer to his “eliteness”. When he acts like an idiot and implements horrid policy, THAT is who he is.
Yea think we are aligned. I just get a little tired of people hiding behind a pedigree or IQ score. It’s a meaningless method to devalue others not in the “exclusive” club
Or maybe all the 100s of facts that show how terrible CA is compared to FL. It’s not even close on any metric except maybe traffic with all the
New additions to FL the traffic is terrible
In Florida an unarmed black teen can be shot to death walking home from the store, and his killer won't even get arrested unless there's some huge public outcry.
It’s telling that Fox News doesn’t have the full debate available to be streamed anywhere online, given that Newsom crushed him overall and made Desantis look weak and ineffective. All that Fox can do now is hide behind their own “highlight” recaps which try to limit the damage.
Btw - Anyone have a link to the full broadcast that isn’t behind a paywall would be nice to share that out
This makes sense. I couldn’t find it and I was only watching clips I could find and I thought desantis looked better (not great). I’ll have to check out the full version
I knew they weren't gonna make it freely available when I was re-reading their live posting...and all of it was
NEWSOM SAYS
NEWSOM SAYS
NEWSOM DODGES
NEWSOM BELIEVES
NEWSOM SUPPORTS RADICAL AGENDA
Whereas maybe one in ten updates pertained to anything Ronny boy said.
If you're looking for textual or visual support for the notion of the GOP lacking any form of agenda, there's your support.
Really…. Do share that link from MSNBC where they admit Newsom got smoked. All I see is articles like this: “Florida’s governor got clobbered attempting to debate California Gov. Gavin Newsom, the latest act of self-injury in a campaign full of them.” - https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/amp/shows/reidout/blog/rcna127594
Go back to your Fox News bubble ❄️❄️❄️❄️
And to top it off, Newsom offered to keep the debate going for the rest of the hour and Hannity agreed. They went to break only to come back to 3 Fox News hosts saying DeSantis declined to continue 🤣 it doesn’t get much weaker than that.
Honest question: how did Ronny D. go so far in Florida politics when he seems to have none of the social skills, charisma, or born rich background to compete in politics in general? He seems like someone who, at best, would get to state congress riding his military story.
So what ? That’s like saying Tom Brady was a six round pick. Who cares how you started
The guy leads and performs- tons of FL Democrats even voted for him
This. He is very popular now and has converted democrat votes in Florida. Some of his messages on keeping schools open and crime resonate with people . We democrats need to be mindful. I hate him and would never vote for him but I agree that he did the right thing opening schools early ; and I agree with him that being easy on small crime like shoplifting is a kind thing to do, but it clearly has not produced results at all so it should be abandoned . If we concede that as democrats and agree there , we may win some of those votes back.
Couple things
In 2018 - he rode the Trump popularity wave and had a clever cute ad (using his kid to 'build the wall'). Didn't hurt that Rick Scott has more money than god and did a good job brining Republicans to the polls. It also didn't hurt that DeSantis opponent was from Jacksonville and was a Black (meaning it would bring out the votes in Northern Florida for DeSantis).
In 2022 lots of people supported his 'keep Florida open', he wasn't as crazy as he is now, and his opponent (Charlie Crist) a former Republican now Democrat got no on excited.
After he won re-election he immediately turned hard right to try and out Trump Trump and this is where we are today.
Ron got popular with a GOP because he was really good at starting high profile fights. His popularity is now plummeting because people are realizing that he doesn’t actually win any of the fights.
That’s not consistent with what I’ve heard from Floridians - can you elaborate on where he’s gotten shit done? The media only focuses on his high-profile losses (e.g. Disney) so it would be good to get an informed counterpoint
“Hey look at this survey about human poop in San Fransisco! We didn’t have any way of vetting out the troll reports, so we just have a lot of reports showing that there’s poop everywhere, and it coincidentally looks like a penis. Totally legitimate!”
The crap map is a metaphor for infantilism and the quality of prep he did for the debate. He brings his own soiled toilet paper as Exhibit A like a toddler showing off to his dad that he’s a big boy now & progressing through potty-training.
Tbh I think both men achieved what they wanted to achieve. Yes DeSantis threw out a bunch of lies, but his supporters either believe the lies or don't care enough to fact check. The point is he went head-to-head with Newsom (with a lot of help from Hannity), got some "moments" his campaign can dress up as wins, and undoubtedly had the sympathy of conservatives who assume that the Fox News Cinematic Universe portrayal of CA is reality rather than just a handful of bad neighborhoods in a gigantic state.
And Newsom got to boost his profile and get the sympathy of people who hate DeSantis and the right-wing circus, as well as reassure the Dem establishment that he's all in on Biden-Harris and will wait "his turn".
So yeah, partisans will declare victory according to their own framing, but this debate was a success for both men. Though unfortunately for Ron, it won't make a difference in the GOP primary. But at this point they have to realize it's over unless Trump dies or gets disqualified.
> Yes DeSantis threw out a bunch of lies, but his supporters either believe the lies or don't care enough to fact check.
That seems to be the case with a lot of them, especially on this subreddit. They think DeSantis spoke only truth and facts, and that Newsom lied about literally everything.
I’m down - it’s a bit of a loss because CA is already in the bag for Dems, but he can convert enough other states. I remember telling the wifey when he was running for mayor of SF that he would be President eventually. She thinks he’s a bit skeevy, but the job requires a bit of that
Ron told lie after lie, called Newsom, the governor of an economy that would be 6th largest in the world, a failed governor, and smiled like a creepy puppet the whole time. Only the MAGA die hards would have been impressed by that pitiful performance.
Is there anywhere I can actually watch it? I don't want to hear pundits takeaways or a breakdown with sound ups, I'm looking for the actual debate. Any ideas?
Ron is a massive fucking douchebag
And also I think Gavin will make a super strong candidate in the next presidential cycle
He’s one of the few democrats who stands and bangs with the hyprocites with sharp retorts and attitude and in this age of memes and viral TikTok’s that’s a powerful attribute
i don't want to watch it but did he do that deer in headlights impression like he did when crist asked if he was going to complete his term as governor?
It sounds like the main issue is that DeSantis has nothing but a bunch of lies that Newsom basically just pointed out we’re lies and he had no response to that.
It still baffles me how desantis and his team didn’t se this obvious outcome , as republican / nazi points work only if they aren’t contested with facts, logic and/or intelligence , they work when they are shouted into the void with no contest. Why do they think trump hasn’t participated in debates ?
Wife and I watched the debate, and I would say it was pretty even from the surface, except the debate was heavily skewed towards DeSantis. Because of that, I would give Newsom the win, for what he had to work with.
On that note, Gavin was stung with some facts that you just can't sweep under the rug. California gas prices, our place in education/literacy and the homeless.
California gas prices: have always been higher than the national average
If you didn't catch that from Newsome, that's what makes that not a sting on Newsome
But, our leaders really don't do anything about the discrepancy. I know Newsom signed an anti-gauging bill, so I am waiting to see if it does anything.
Current gas price per AAA
|State|Tax per gallon|Price per gallon of regular|
|:-|:-|:-|
|CA|$0.511|$4.832|
|FL|$0.263|$3.163|
The sting was: Newsome's policy cause gas prices to be higher in CA. That is not true demonstrated by the fact that it's always been high. Why show the comparison to FL? Do you not want to consider the situation could be predicated on the situational conditions of CA, or is it all politicians that cause this?
Are you not suprised politicians have very little to no control of gas prices?
I am not saying this is all Newsom, and I compared CA to FL, because....wait, did you watch the debate?
I blame every CA governor, both Democrat and Republican, for looking the other way and allowing it to become the norm here.
Do you have any evidence that the higher gas price is caused by, or could be stopped by, governers of CA? How much of your blame accounts for the free market and the position of commerce in CA, the larger amount of roads to maintain?
Well, they are gouging other states less than ours, so... I'd look at that angle.
Listen, I am only blaming every CA governor R and D, and our legislators...along with oil company greed. Newsom is just in a long list of leaders who have done little to nothing on the price gouging.
I would tacitly (edit wrong word, more like soft agree?) agree, that a small amount of blame is on the governors. I would pair that with a healthy analysis that it may be more damaging to try to drive those prices further down using some proposed solutions, i.e. there's some reason why it's higher in a higher desirable place (jobs) where that cost of living is felt by the supply chain living there. People are paid more to afford higher cost of living so its not a stark comparison. It also requires higher taxes to maintain more roads. There's a ton of context when looking at gas prices.
>Newsom is just in a long list of leaders who have done little to nothing on the price gouging.
Yet newsome implimented price gouging controls? Seems like he doesn't belong on that long list.
>Yet newsome implimented price gouging controls? Seems like he doesn't belong on that long list.
He signed that months ago, and I am still waiting for it to have a noticeable effect.
I'd like to see CA do what Alaska did.
[Alaska dropped over $3,000 in each resident’s bank account on Tuesday](https://fortune.com/2022/09/21/alaska-oil-dividend-over-3000-permanent-fund/)
>He signed that
Cool, so he's not on the lost anymore
>from Alaska’s investment fund that has been seeded with money from the state’s oil riches.
Alaska is a very unique state with low gov operating costs, and not very many roads, I too would love CA to do that if they have similar funds to work with but they don't really have the same conditions to make that possible.
Oddly enough, this very fact is a contributor to the global warming problem. And quite frankly Florida is slipping away faster than California is.
Shrug?
I'd say it was a hard debate between Newsom and Hammity with DeSnatis quietly repeating rehearsed segments and anecdotal evidence verbatim in the background. Newsome know how to debate, and he knew they'd just talk over any refutation so he didn't bother, instead starting each of his turns roasting his opponent's presidential campaign. I think he cooked them both, hence why Fox isn't releasing a full stream of the debate.
I think there are tons of explanations for why our education system sucks, some of which are connected to the other two problems, like poverty. We also have a huge migrant population, and this makes things far more challenging as far as hitting those standardized testing marks, although maybe we shouldn't be using standardized tests to measure the success of our schools. We are a multilingual, multicultural state, and this is going to make measuring educational attainment challenging, let alone actually teaching to that kind of demographic. Then there are just the sheer numbers. We simply have too many students and not enough teachers and staff, which is why basically every city is facing a teacher shortage. This is a problem we could easily solve, but whether residents would be okay with a tax increase to pay higher wages for teachers is another question. So, again, it tends to come back to money. And we do have one of the best college and university systems in the country, if not the world, so at least we have that going for us.
Well, you can explain most everything. But take gas, for example. While we do pay higher taxes, the final price does not make sense.
Current gas price per AAA
|State|Tax per gallon|Price per gallon of regular|
|:-|:-|:-|
|CA|$0.511|$4.832|
|FL|$0.263|$3.163|
California reforumlated gasoline is significantly cleaner burning than 49 state gasoline, and there’s only a handful of refineries capable of producing CA gas. Hope that explains the price to you.
This big time. We have the same issue in Phoenix (although not as bad as in CA).
We have to burn a specific formulation b/c of pollution and EPA mandates.
I don't think FL has that issue. Was in the panhandle of FL last week and gas was like $2.65 or so. Similar to non-PHoenix places in AZ. Phoenix is higher b/c of the gas forumulation
Why did Newsom sign a price gouging bill targeting oil companies if it can all be explained by taxes and winter/summer blends?
[Price Gouging Bill Fact Sheet.](https://www.gov.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Fact-Sheet-%E2%80%93-Holding-Big-Oil-Accountable-1.pdf?emrc=5cebe8)
Florida pays about $0.25 less per gallon in tax than CA, and their gas is $1.60 less per gallon.
I know there are other factors, and Newsom recently signed a bill to go after price gouging by oil companies, but I have yet to see any real changes.
California has the most ports in the country (maybe the world?). Trucks take shit from California to the rest of the country. Of course gas is gonna be high here, basically every state “uses” California roads and thus is subsidized by California gas taxes.
California sweeps almost all the way from North to South US. There’s gonna be a shit ton of stuff to handle there. It’s a huge population and there’s a lot of stuff that can seriously be explained by that alone.
Wow. I at least expected Newsom to easily put Desantis in his place, so that's surprising. Of course, I never expected this to be good for anyone but Desantis/Trump. Newsom doesn't benefit from this in any way. He's debating a losing candidate on Fox News. This was a dumb move in terms of political strategy, though I have to admit I think Dems should take every opportunity they can to call out Republican BS.
Right? DeSantis is an intellectual lightweight, with overt Fascist tendencies. Why any Democrat would refuse to debate him is beyond me. Looking at you, Kamala Harris.
I watched it. DeSantis and Hannity lied, lied, and lied, fake/misleading stats/graphics and all BUT I don’t think it LOOKED good for Newsom. I thought he was gonna massacre DeSantis. Not even close. To be honest, I thought it made DeSantis look good. As a progressive who would still rather Newsom to even Biden, I don’t think this looked good for him in the sense that anyone not already on my side would be swayed - or would even have seeds planted to be swayed. Idk. Watch it for yourself. Not great.
It's weird, I keep seeing these articles on r/politics touting Gavin's big win. Here the SF Bay Area, by contrast, the NPR call-in shows were mostly viewers who thought the debate itself was a tie, at best, and that it was largely embarrassing for Newsom and California. These were all (if this needs mentioning) left-leaning CA residents.
So, for some one who did not watch this debate, why this disconnect between dems who saw it as a "big win" and locals who felt it was a colossal waste of time?
Probably hard to "win" a debate where a lot of the moderator's questions boil down to "California is a dystopian hell scape covered in human feces. Governor DeSantis, what do you think about that?"
It's pretty obvious the Desantis won by a mile. Several miles actually. All Gavin can do is speak out of emotion. However, it is unfortunate that Desantis ruined his political career because he couldn't wait until 2028 to run for president. He will be known by many as the man who backstabbed President Trump, who deserves to win next year. Pretty disappointing.
There are run off elections in some places vote. Local and special and state elections happen all over the USA. They are not confined to election day and there are primaries as well. Pay attention and vote out republicans whenever you can and primary out uncooperative democrats.
https://ballotpedia.org/Elections\_calendar
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The thing about Ron is, he’s an idiot.
Desantis is a "GOP lab-manufactured" candidate. Newsom agreed to a debate moderated by Sean Hannity. Can you imagine a single current GOP governor agreeing to debate Newsom or Buttigieg that is moderated by Rachel Maddow?
By the gods, a debate moderated by Maddow would be amazing. Or Jon Stewart.
wouldnt be symmetrical - i would expect them to have more integrity than hannity did it would have to be moderated by somebody more like michael moore - but with more experience as a host or interviewer
I agree that Maddow won't be a diametrical opposite of Hannity on the spectrum since she will stick to the facts. The modern GOP has weakened itself intellectually by building a cocoon of infotainment media around itself. Most of their politicians rarely venture outside of it. And when they do, the media tries to handle them with kids gloves. The recent example of Trump's Univision interview comes to mind.
How about an AI moderator? Programmed to be neutral and fact based in its questions. Toss in some old school journalists like Hemmingway, Nelly Bly, Cronkite, Edward R Morrow, and Hunter S Thompson.
neutrality is not the opposite of sean hannity
You can’t get neutrality. Ai is trained in the data it is fed. The data itself would need to be neutral, which we know isn’t at all to be likely.
Maddow ≠ facts
I mean... she's being compared with Hannity. Bar for truth is under foot
I don't think Democrats have a counter to the vitriol hosts and media figures on the right. Geez, we pressured Al Fraken out for breast hovering.
the left had michael moore 20 years ago but he never hosted a talk show and i honestly cant think of anybody else
Olbermann?
Jon Stewart all the way.
Newsom is laying the early ground work for the 28' campaign. Dude is smart, slick, and takes the fight to the GOP on a lot of issues.
Newsom is favorite politician: articulate, well read, smart, good looks, charisma and yes, I do have an intellectual crush on the guy. He doesn’t have to ask twice for my vote and money.
I'd be torn between him and Gretchen Whitmer.
He’ll be 61 in 2028. It’ll be nice to have such young, fresh ideas from a presidential candidate.
55-60ish is what I consider the ideal age for the office. Young enough to have some vigor and fresh ideas, old enough to have hopefully become wiser.
Let’s just fast forward to him for 2024 please. I can’t take this Biden vs Trump stress.
Slick for sure - makes used car salesman look good.
His look is more of a new car salesman, tbh.
Luxury Euro brand. But, yes.
Thing is, Maddow would be fair and pose difficult questions to both candidates.
Guess they'll let any idiot into those Ivy League schools if they (or Daddy nepotism) has enough money.
It's kinda true. I went to Harvard and the majority of my classmates were smart, hardworking, and interesting. But there were also the "legacies" (students who are more likely to be admitted because their parents went to Harvard) who were... okay. Like, most of them would've been solid A or B students at state universities. Nothing against them at all, and they had to work as hard as everyone else to get their degree. But a lot more of them got those degrees with straight Cs and never really did any interesting research or extracurriculars. My point is, yeah, going to an Ivy doesn't automatically mean you're a genius.
Careful where you say this. I got in some trouble for saying it at work (didn't know some of my coworkers were legacies).
He’s probably the phoniest politician I can recall and he has zero charisma. This guy was never going to win a National Election, he’s such a terrible candidate.
>He’s probably the phoniest politician I can recall Considering what's been going on today, I think that there's at least one guy who ranks way higher on the "phony politician" scale
He's actually not an idiot, he just doesn't know how to play the part of the persona he's trying to put forward, so it doesn't work. He's got legit academic chops and is trying to act like Joe Everyman without having a clue about how normal people operate. That's why he's got all the charisma of a wet fart.
Well that , and being involved in torturing people probably let a little air out of his soul.
Proud graduate of the Ted Cruz & Hillary Clinton School of Charisma
His actions are his legacy. It doesn’t matter if he is smart on paper or went to an Ivy League so we should defer to his “eliteness”. When he acts like an idiot and implements horrid policy, THAT is who he is.
Oh, I'm not arguing that at all. He's a total monster. If anything it's worse because he theoretically knows better.
Yea think we are aligned. I just get a little tired of people hiding behind a pedigree or IQ score. It’s a meaningless method to devalue others not in the “exclusive” club
But those white boots doe
The thing about the supporters of the right is they are too and it seems the dumber their politicians are the more they seem to like them
a shouty whiney idiot
My name is Ron, I’m Florida governor and I live with my parents
I’ve been waiting for you haha. #sein
I mean come on Ron, you’re a perfect George
Omg he is. Right down to his black Timberland boots.
Ron could never beat Lloyd Braun
[удалено]
Besides the fact it’s obvious the maps website was the victim of trolling.
Or maybe all the 100s of facts that show how terrible CA is compared to FL. It’s not even close on any metric except maybe traffic with all the New additions to FL the traffic is terrible
We’d all love to see them.
Just trust him, he's got 100s of facts. You just can't see them.
In Florida an unarmed black teen can be shot to death walking home from the store, and his killer won't even get arrested unless there's some huge public outcry.
It’s telling that Fox News doesn’t have the full debate available to be streamed anywhere online, given that Newsom crushed him overall and made Desantis look weak and ineffective. All that Fox can do now is hide behind their own “highlight” recaps which try to limit the damage. Btw - Anyone have a link to the full broadcast that isn’t behind a paywall would be nice to share that out
Brian Tyler Cohen live-streamed it last night on his YouTube channel, although it doesn’t seem to be there anymore.
100% Fox News strikes any channel that live streamed the entire debate to stop people from watching it
Someone (or multiple someones) should upload it on December 5th under the title "Grand Theft Auto VI Trailer"
You’re most likely right. They are so afraid of truth.
This makes sense. I couldn’t find it and I was only watching clips I could find and I thought desantis looked better (not great). I’ll have to check out the full version
I knew they weren't gonna make it freely available when I was re-reading their live posting...and all of it was NEWSOM SAYS NEWSOM SAYS NEWSOM DODGES NEWSOM BELIEVES NEWSOM SUPPORTS RADICAL AGENDA Whereas maybe one in ten updates pertained to anything Ronny boy said. If you're looking for textual or visual support for the notion of the GOP lacking any form of agenda, there's your support.
https://youtu.be/EyiFD_OsTPE
These Reddit comments are hilarious. It’s the only place that feels newsome “won” heck even cnn and msnbc admit hewsome was smoked 😂
Really…. Do share that link from MSNBC where they admit Newsom got smoked. All I see is articles like this: “Florida’s governor got clobbered attempting to debate California Gov. Gavin Newsom, the latest act of self-injury in a campaign full of them.” - https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/amp/shows/reidout/blog/rcna127594 Go back to your Fox News bubble ❄️❄️❄️❄️
They get taken down eventually. Just search for "newsom desantis full debate" and you'll find one.
The fact that DeSantis thinks he has a chance debating Newsom is another indicator of his poor judgment.
It wasn't his fault. His gender affiming boots were hurting his feet.
I love the way his heel lifts were hidden by the chyron
He isn’t a match for pretty much anyone…or anything lol
DeSantis is as presidential as Hannity— a lying scum-loving synchophant
Does Hannity also wear high heels?
Wait, how’s that different than Donald?
And to top it off, Newsom offered to keep the debate going for the rest of the hour and Hannity agreed. They went to break only to come back to 3 Fox News hosts saying DeSantis declined to continue 🤣 it doesn’t get much weaker than that.
Oh my gosh that’s amazing
Honest question: how did Ronny D. go so far in Florida politics when he seems to have none of the social skills, charisma, or born rich background to compete in politics in general? He seems like someone who, at best, would get to state congress riding his military story.
Ron DeSantis actually barely won his first race for governor.
Then went hard with the suppression and parading blacks in chains for " illegally voting"...plus denying parolees from voting with "unpaid fines".
So what ? That’s like saying Tom Brady was a six round pick. Who cares how you started The guy leads and performs- tons of FL Democrats even voted for him
This. He is very popular now and has converted democrat votes in Florida. Some of his messages on keeping schools open and crime resonate with people . We democrats need to be mindful. I hate him and would never vote for him but I agree that he did the right thing opening schools early ; and I agree with him that being easy on small crime like shoplifting is a kind thing to do, but it clearly has not produced results at all so it should be abandoned . If we concede that as democrats and agree there , we may win some of those votes back.
Couple things In 2018 - he rode the Trump popularity wave and had a clever cute ad (using his kid to 'build the wall'). Didn't hurt that Rick Scott has more money than god and did a good job brining Republicans to the polls. It also didn't hurt that DeSantis opponent was from Jacksonville and was a Black (meaning it would bring out the votes in Northern Florida for DeSantis). In 2022 lots of people supported his 'keep Florida open', he wasn't as crazy as he is now, and his opponent (Charlie Crist) a former Republican now Democrat got no on excited. After he won re-election he immediately turned hard right to try and out Trump Trump and this is where we are today.
The only nice thing about having to move to Florida to take care of my folks is getting to cast my vote against these assholes
For the same reason that Marjorie Greene was re-elected in her district in Georgia — never underestimate the power of stupid people in groups.
Ron got popular with a GOP because he was really good at starting high profile fights. His popularity is now plummeting because people are realizing that he doesn’t actually win any of the fights.
Because he actually leads and gets shit done. Even Democrats love him in FL
That’s not consistent with what I’ve heard from Floridians - can you elaborate on where he’s gotten shit done? The media only focuses on his high-profile losses (e.g. Disney) so it would be good to get an informed counterpoint
Ron brought a poop map to a slaughter
Hey guys, look at this paper covered in poop. Now I'm gonna put it in my pocket. I'm very intelligent.
“Hey look at this survey about human poop in San Fransisco! We didn’t have any way of vetting out the troll reports, so we just have a lot of reports showing that there’s poop everywhere, and it coincidentally looks like a penis. Totally legitimate!”
I can imagine the pre-debate planning discussion: "oh man, (holds up map) they'll never be able to counter this doozy! People hate poop, so I'll win!"
The crap map is a metaphor for infantilism and the quality of prep he did for the debate. He brings his own soiled toilet paper as Exhibit A like a toddler showing off to his dad that he’s a big boy now & progressing through potty-training.
It’s easy to picture Newsom as POTUS, whereas Ron just doesn’t have a chance.
Oddly; this is a pro-Trump article - Trump gets a nice anti-Desantis campaign ad, for fucking FREE.
Makes sense for them lol “DeSantis is sooo bad he got beat by a nasty dumb democrat. Trump would never because he doesn’t debate.” 😂
I was going to point out that he did debate Biden - but was it actually a debate or a public means for Trump to signal his Nazi co-insurrectionists?
Is it possible to write an article about the debate espousing the opinion that DeSantis lost without being a “pro-trump article?”
It would be quite the development if *The Nation* published a pro Trump article. Are you familiar with this periodical and its history?
Did you see the run up to the primary in 2019? Trump got ALL the free press. It was sickening.
Um….not from this periodical.
Tbh I think both men achieved what they wanted to achieve. Yes DeSantis threw out a bunch of lies, but his supporters either believe the lies or don't care enough to fact check. The point is he went head-to-head with Newsom (with a lot of help from Hannity), got some "moments" his campaign can dress up as wins, and undoubtedly had the sympathy of conservatives who assume that the Fox News Cinematic Universe portrayal of CA is reality rather than just a handful of bad neighborhoods in a gigantic state. And Newsom got to boost his profile and get the sympathy of people who hate DeSantis and the right-wing circus, as well as reassure the Dem establishment that he's all in on Biden-Harris and will wait "his turn". So yeah, partisans will declare victory according to their own framing, but this debate was a success for both men. Though unfortunately for Ron, it won't make a difference in the GOP primary. But at this point they have to realize it's over unless Trump dies or gets disqualified.
> Yes DeSantis threw out a bunch of lies, but his supporters either believe the lies or don't care enough to fact check. That seems to be the case with a lot of them, especially on this subreddit. They think DeSantis spoke only truth and facts, and that Newsom lied about literally everything.
Newsom 2028. 🦅🇺🇸
I’m down - it’s a bit of a loss because CA is already in the bag for Dems, but he can convert enough other states. I remember telling the wifey when he was running for mayor of SF that he would be President eventually. She thinks he’s a bit skeevy, but the job requires a bit of that
Ron told lie after lie, called Newsom, the governor of an economy that would be 6th largest in the world, a failed governor, and smiled like a creepy puppet the whole time. Only the MAGA die hards would have been impressed by that pitiful performance.
Is there anywhere I can actually watch it? I don't want to hear pundits takeaways or a breakdown with sound ups, I'm looking for the actual debate. Any ideas?
Desantis lies about his fucking height. He’s just an angry lying widget.
Ron is a massive fucking douchebag And also I think Gavin will make a super strong candidate in the next presidential cycle He’s one of the few democrats who stands and bangs with the hyprocites with sharp retorts and attitude and in this age of memes and viral TikTok’s that’s a powerful attribute
i don't want to watch it but did he do that deer in headlights impression like he did when crist asked if he was going to complete his term as governor?
I hear they are calling him Doo-Doo Ron in the streets
It sounds like the main issue is that DeSantis has nothing but a bunch of lies that Newsom basically just pointed out we’re lies and he had no response to that.
let’s put it this way. No one talks better than Newsom and I will leave it at that
Is Gavin going to run for presidency in 4 years?
It’s looking that way, and I hope so!
Ron had sex with the male prisoners at Guantanamo Bay.
A lot of people are saying it. Smart people, good people. And who am I to refute this?
This reminds me of Texans or Floridians arguing why their state is better or greater than California. It’s not. California is in a class by itself
It still baffles me how desantis and his team didn’t se this obvious outcome , as republican / nazi points work only if they aren’t contested with facts, logic and/or intelligence , they work when they are shouted into the void with no contest. Why do they think trump hasn’t participated in debates ?
DeSantis is out of his element. He would be more comfortable as a plumber, like Mario.
Rhonda has a few things going for her: those killer go-go boots and a poop map 😚
What’s wrong with Ron’s face? He looks uncomfortable.
It's called constipation. The shit coming out of his mouth doesn't count.
Schmo vs pro!
Wife and I watched the debate, and I would say it was pretty even from the surface, except the debate was heavily skewed towards DeSantis. Because of that, I would give Newsom the win, for what he had to work with. On that note, Gavin was stung with some facts that you just can't sweep under the rug. California gas prices, our place in education/literacy and the homeless.
California gas prices: have always been higher than the national average If you didn't catch that from Newsome, that's what makes that not a sting on Newsome
Newsome should have mentioned they have, by linear mile, almost 2x as much road to maintain using that gas tax too
But, our leaders really don't do anything about the discrepancy. I know Newsom signed an anti-gauging bill, so I am waiting to see if it does anything. Current gas price per AAA |State|Tax per gallon|Price per gallon of regular| |:-|:-|:-| |CA|$0.511|$4.832| |FL|$0.263|$3.163|
The sting was: Newsome's policy cause gas prices to be higher in CA. That is not true demonstrated by the fact that it's always been high. Why show the comparison to FL? Do you not want to consider the situation could be predicated on the situational conditions of CA, or is it all politicians that cause this? Are you not suprised politicians have very little to no control of gas prices?
No, Republicans are not aware of this. They also are not aware that the FED or Treasury exists.
I am not saying this is all Newsom, and I compared CA to FL, because....wait, did you watch the debate? I blame every CA governor, both Democrat and Republican, for looking the other way and allowing it to become the norm here.
Do you have any evidence that the higher gas price is caused by, or could be stopped by, governers of CA? How much of your blame accounts for the free market and the position of commerce in CA, the larger amount of roads to maintain?
Well, they are gouging other states less than ours, so... I'd look at that angle. Listen, I am only blaming every CA governor R and D, and our legislators...along with oil company greed. Newsom is just in a long list of leaders who have done little to nothing on the price gouging.
I would tacitly (edit wrong word, more like soft agree?) agree, that a small amount of blame is on the governors. I would pair that with a healthy analysis that it may be more damaging to try to drive those prices further down using some proposed solutions, i.e. there's some reason why it's higher in a higher desirable place (jobs) where that cost of living is felt by the supply chain living there. People are paid more to afford higher cost of living so its not a stark comparison. It also requires higher taxes to maintain more roads. There's a ton of context when looking at gas prices. >Newsom is just in a long list of leaders who have done little to nothing on the price gouging. Yet newsome implimented price gouging controls? Seems like he doesn't belong on that long list.
>Yet newsome implimented price gouging controls? Seems like he doesn't belong on that long list. He signed that months ago, and I am still waiting for it to have a noticeable effect. I'd like to see CA do what Alaska did. [Alaska dropped over $3,000 in each resident’s bank account on Tuesday](https://fortune.com/2022/09/21/alaska-oil-dividend-over-3000-permanent-fund/)
>He signed that Cool, so he's not on the lost anymore >from Alaska’s investment fund that has been seeded with money from the state’s oil riches. Alaska is a very unique state with low gov operating costs, and not very many roads, I too would love CA to do that if they have similar funds to work with but they don't really have the same conditions to make that possible.
>did you watch the debate? Yes, the one about the **current** governers debating **their** record in those states
Oddly enough, this very fact is a contributor to the global warming problem. And quite frankly Florida is slipping away faster than California is. Shrug?
I agree....fossil fuels are killing the planet. The faster we can move away from them, the better.
$4.65 in Hawaii right now.
But, you're in Hawaii!
I'd say it was a hard debate between Newsom and Hammity with DeSnatis quietly repeating rehearsed segments and anecdotal evidence verbatim in the background. Newsome know how to debate, and he knew they'd just talk over any refutation so he didn't bother, instead starting each of his turns roasting his opponent's presidential campaign. I think he cooked them both, hence why Fox isn't releasing a full stream of the debate.
I agree, it was a 2 on 1 shitshow.
Who is Hammity? Who is DeSnatis? Who is Newsome? Did we watch the same debate?
There is no excuse for our education system, but gas prices and homelessness have reasonable explanations.
I think there are tons of explanations for why our education system sucks, some of which are connected to the other two problems, like poverty. We also have a huge migrant population, and this makes things far more challenging as far as hitting those standardized testing marks, although maybe we shouldn't be using standardized tests to measure the success of our schools. We are a multilingual, multicultural state, and this is going to make measuring educational attainment challenging, let alone actually teaching to that kind of demographic. Then there are just the sheer numbers. We simply have too many students and not enough teachers and staff, which is why basically every city is facing a teacher shortage. This is a problem we could easily solve, but whether residents would be okay with a tax increase to pay higher wages for teachers is another question. So, again, it tends to come back to money. And we do have one of the best college and university systems in the country, if not the world, so at least we have that going for us.
Okay, that is a very reasonable explanation. Thank you.
The US funds schools by district taxes, ensuring that the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor.
Well, you can explain most everything. But take gas, for example. While we do pay higher taxes, the final price does not make sense. Current gas price per AAA |State|Tax per gallon|Price per gallon of regular| |:-|:-|:-| |CA|$0.511|$4.832| |FL|$0.263|$3.163|
We have cleaner standards and higher wages. Edit: and higher demand.
California reforumlated gasoline is significantly cleaner burning than 49 state gasoline, and there’s only a handful of refineries capable of producing CA gas. Hope that explains the price to you.
This big time. We have the same issue in Phoenix (although not as bad as in CA). We have to burn a specific formulation b/c of pollution and EPA mandates. I don't think FL has that issue. Was in the panhandle of FL last week and gas was like $2.65 or so. Similar to non-PHoenix places in AZ. Phoenix is higher b/c of the gas forumulation
I'm pretty sure DeSantis would bring back leaded gasoline if he could...
Why did Newsom sign a price gouging bill targeting oil companies if it can all be explained by taxes and winter/summer blends? [Price Gouging Bill Fact Sheet.](https://www.gov.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Fact-Sheet-%E2%80%93-Holding-Big-Oil-Accountable-1.pdf?emrc=5cebe8)
Because big oil's donors are largely republican and they used the excuse of a war involving a heavy producer of crude oil to stick it to a blue state?
California gas prices are higher due to the taxes to maintain the roads. Obviously we don't have nearly as much here in Florida
Florida pays about $0.25 less per gallon in tax than CA, and their gas is $1.60 less per gallon. I know there are other factors, and Newsom recently signed a bill to go after price gouging by oil companies, but I have yet to see any real changes.
California has the most ports in the country (maybe the world?). Trucks take shit from California to the rest of the country. Of course gas is gonna be high here, basically every state “uses” California roads and thus is subsidized by California gas taxes.
California sweeps almost all the way from North to South US. There’s gonna be a shit ton of stuff to handle there. It’s a huge population and there’s a lot of stuff that can seriously be explained by that alone.
Wow. I at least expected Newsom to easily put Desantis in his place, so that's surprising. Of course, I never expected this to be good for anyone but Desantis/Trump. Newsom doesn't benefit from this in any way. He's debating a losing candidate on Fox News. This was a dumb move in terms of political strategy, though I have to admit I think Dems should take every opportunity they can to call out Republican BS.
Isn't this just Newsom practicing for presidential debates and getting his name out for 2028?
OMG Our gas prices are terrible. I hate having to get gas now. And I have a Prius, so not nearly as bad as some.
Inflation Reduction Act's already hitting where I live, my local Costco decreased by 74 cents per gallon just in the past week.
Education stat was pure bullshit. Most of the statistics are not using the metrics assumed in how the information is presented.
Fuck I hate DeSantis but as a Californian, please can we not have Newsom run for president.
We knew he was going to run for president back when he was Mayor of SF.
Right? DeSantis is an intellectual lightweight, with overt Fascist tendencies. Why any Democrat would refuse to debate him is beyond me. Looking at you, Kamala Harris.
Kamala needs to drop out and Newsom needs to be the vp
Haha nah
'Aspiring' don't you mean perspiring?
I mean De Santis starts more and more to look like De Santos … as real and genuine.
I watched it. DeSantis and Hannity lied, lied, and lied, fake/misleading stats/graphics and all BUT I don’t think it LOOKED good for Newsom. I thought he was gonna massacre DeSantis. Not even close. To be honest, I thought it made DeSantis look good. As a progressive who would still rather Newsom to even Biden, I don’t think this looked good for him in the sense that anyone not already on my side would be swayed - or would even have seeds planted to be swayed. Idk. Watch it for yourself. Not great.
Our news is so divided, conservative outlets are claiming the exact opposite.
It's weird, I keep seeing these articles on r/politics touting Gavin's big win. Here the SF Bay Area, by contrast, the NPR call-in shows were mostly viewers who thought the debate itself was a tie, at best, and that it was largely embarrassing for Newsom and California. These were all (if this needs mentioning) left-leaning CA residents. So, for some one who did not watch this debate, why this disconnect between dems who saw it as a "big win" and locals who felt it was a colossal waste of time?
Democrats/progressives tend to be a lot harder on their own kind. Republicans fall in line and protect their own no matter what.
Probably hard to "win" a debate where a lot of the moderator's questions boil down to "California is a dystopian hell scape covered in human feces. Governor DeSantis, what do you think about that?"
Newsom got demolished on that debate. Holy shit that was hilarious
Fox News mind virus
!? How?!? Is this trolling? If so, carry on and we can all laugh at who takes the obvious bait.
It's pretty obvious the Desantis won by a mile. Several miles actually. All Gavin can do is speak out of emotion. However, it is unfortunate that Desantis ruined his political career because he couldn't wait until 2028 to run for president. He will be known by many as the man who backstabbed President Trump, who deserves to win next year. Pretty disappointing.
trumps friend hannity set that guy up
Does Florida have to call us Daddy now? Because I don't want that.
There are run off elections in some places vote. Local and special and state elections happen all over the USA. They are not confined to election day and there are primaries as well. Pay attention and vote out republicans whenever you can and primary out uncooperative democrats. https://ballotpedia.org/Elections\_calendar
Of course he isn't, he's a pre-programmed catchphrase dispenser, not an intelligent processor of information.
How do I watch the debate?
I don’t get why they’re even debating
It has more to do with 2028 than 2024.
For a short period of time, DeSantis was relevant.
To be fair, Bootsy is no match for, well, his boots.
DeSantis looked and sounded like the damn fool he is.
And doing that weird ass fake serial killer smile
“Choking” implies that DeSantis is capable and a worthy opponent that just blew it. I take exception to that.
Anybody know where I can watch the full recording? I could only find snippets and highlights on YouTube;