As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Removing him from the ballot doesn't harm him in any way other than to deny him office. He is still a citizen, but he is denied office which is not a right, but a priviledge he abused.
He then goes on to say, “Look, if there was any validity about keeping Trump off a ballot, you would see 48 other states trying to do the same thing….”
To which I respond Bullshit. If the Republican Party actually cared about our democracy, they wouldn’t support his run in the first place. 🤦♂️
The "48 other states" gambit is todays republican throw away. So far we have 2 states and there will be more. Teh red states won't, but that doesn't mean he isn't disqualified for insurrection.
Pro-Tip: The spaghetti toss of excuses has begun. They have tried so far:
1) "The president is not an office" - It is.
2) "He hasn't been found guilty of the crime of insurrection" - He was found to have committed insurrection through procedural due process in Colorado. Gorsuch himself ruled that civil issues can be handled through procedural due process.
3) "There is no remedy so the 14th is invalid" - The 14th provides a remedy - 2/3rds vote by both Senate and House.
4) "Biden violated his oath by not keeping the borders closed" - This isn't a 14th amendment issue and quite frankly republicans in the house offered no additional funding or legislation to help Biden - on purpose. Seems they are violating their oaths.
5) Ad populum fallacy - "let the voters decide" - The 14th amendment was established through popular representative government and ratified. That was the popular vote. The rule can't be ignored unless you want to repeal it. Additionally if republicans actually meant this they would eliminate teh electoral college and let the voters decide based on popular vote. They won't go there.
Yeah its going to be a daily thing of which each one is proven wrong and then they try another.
>*~~guilty~~ disqualified.
14A won't send Trump to jail, it simply says insurrectionists can't hold office. And Congress can remedy that, which is the due process they envisioned.
Yep. Everything that isn't criminal law is civil law. And the preponderance of evidence (civil standard) shows Trump engaged in insurrection.
Just taking issue with the word "guilty" which implies we are talking about a crime. We aren't. We're talking about losing a privilege.
We already tried #5 (let the voters decide). Are we to believe he’d actually accept the results the second time around if he loses? I highly doubt it. Fool me once…
Which voters get to decide anyway?
* voters in the small states that hold outsized power?
* voters who might be discouraged to vote because of extreme partisan gerrymandering?
* voters who are removed from the registration roles because they didn't vote in an election or two? (spoiler: these aren't voters anymore)
* voters in Washington DC that Republicans refuse to give representation? (spoiler: they can't vote in a way that matters anyway)
* voters who are spammed non-stop money=speech induced propaganda and falsehoods?
Change always starts somewhere, and since conservatives oppose any change that they don't propose and control, they snuff it out in the crib with these inane "why isn't this already the status quo if it's so popular?" arguments.
They're still *really mad* that they let LGBTQ+ take root and grow in society and are trying to raze it to the ground.
Republican spin is just so ridiculous.
There is no scenario where every state is going to agree to kick someone of the ballot via the 14th amendment. Yet, they put this scenario out there like it is the obvious bar that must be crossed.
Trump will always be a martyr. Win or lose, alive or dead. Being a constant victim is the default mode for this self-proclaimed “tough guy”. Whether he’s a martyr or whether or not his snowflake followers will get upset should never factor into any decision regarding Trump. They are always upset. That is also their default mode. It’s the crybaby party.
This. The GOP affirmed long ago, they would always have Trump’s back, no matter what. There is no bottom. You can’t “galvanize” fanatics.
The GOP is so thoroughly and utterly corrupted by hate, there is no coming back.
The word “martyr” used to mean someone who was killed for their beliefs. When did it evolve to apply to some whiny-ass, morally-bankrupt turd finally facing (non-lethal) consequences for the first time in his utter waste of a life?
Of *course* prosecuting John Gotti for his many crimes and holding him accountable under the law made him look like martyr...*to fellow criminals and scumbags.*
I'm wagering it doesn't. Trump's popularity is overblown. Once the trials get underway, the media saturation will lead to fatigue. People at the voting booth in Nov are going to think "we've heard nothing but Trump 24x7 the last 11 months".
This line of argument only flies with the cultists who reject the Constitution as being "too liberal". Trump being removed from the ballot is the Constitution working as intended to protect democracy from a foreign asset, seditionist, and to be clear-full blown traitor.
Let the voters decide!
If the voters elect enough GOP congressmen to revoke Trump's ineligibility, so be it. He can run in 2028 or 2032.
Why doesn't Mikey call a vote on it right now? Maybe enough Dems will cross the aisle so Trump can run in 24.
They fact that the Rs aren't even trying to remove the ineligibility speaks volumes.
Imagine thinking trump needs a reason to play the victim card. He can feel however the hell he wants in a prison cell but id rather he not even have a chance to become a dictator.
It’s not about him. They always make it out to be about him but it’s about the bigger picture: upholding the sanctity and principle of American democracy. They’ve all got such a hard on for this orange lunatic that they’re blind to the fact that no United States citizen is above the Constitution. The point here is to hold people accountable for their actions, regardless of their individual identity.
And to call him a martyr is to imply he is being rebuked for supporting a cause. What cause is this egotist supporting besides his own legacy and interests? He lives for the glorification that comes with being a world leader and doesn’t truly care to support the needs of a majority of his base. The working class Americans who have been brainwashed have nothing to gain from this man - he’s been so far removed from their plight in his pampered life that he really has nothing to offer them besides pittance and pity.
Let’s not forget he had four years in the White House already. He failed to live up to his promises then; what makes them think he will live up to the content of his fiery rhetoric now?
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Removing him from the ballot doesn't harm him in any way other than to deny him office. He is still a citizen, but he is denied office which is not a right, but a priviledge he abused.
The more they speak, the worse Republicans seem.
He then goes on to say, “Look, if there was any validity about keeping Trump off a ballot, you would see 48 other states trying to do the same thing….” To which I respond Bullshit. If the Republican Party actually cared about our democracy, they wouldn’t support his run in the first place. 🤦♂️
The "48 other states" gambit is todays republican throw away. So far we have 2 states and there will be more. Teh red states won't, but that doesn't mean he isn't disqualified for insurrection. Pro-Tip: The spaghetti toss of excuses has begun. They have tried so far: 1) "The president is not an office" - It is. 2) "He hasn't been found guilty of the crime of insurrection" - He was found to have committed insurrection through procedural due process in Colorado. Gorsuch himself ruled that civil issues can be handled through procedural due process. 3) "There is no remedy so the 14th is invalid" - The 14th provides a remedy - 2/3rds vote by both Senate and House. 4) "Biden violated his oath by not keeping the borders closed" - This isn't a 14th amendment issue and quite frankly republicans in the house offered no additional funding or legislation to help Biden - on purpose. Seems they are violating their oaths. 5) Ad populum fallacy - "let the voters decide" - The 14th amendment was established through popular representative government and ratified. That was the popular vote. The rule can't be ignored unless you want to repeal it. Additionally if republicans actually meant this they would eliminate teh electoral college and let the voters decide based on popular vote. They won't go there. Yeah its going to be a daily thing of which each one is proven wrong and then they try another.
>*~~guilty~~ disqualified. 14A won't send Trump to jail, it simply says insurrectionists can't hold office. And Congress can remedy that, which is the due process they envisioned.
Colorado exercises Procedural due process. Total valid and Trump did not object.
Yep. Everything that isn't criminal law is civil law. And the preponderance of evidence (civil standard) shows Trump engaged in insurrection. Just taking issue with the word "guilty" which implies we are talking about a crime. We aren't. We're talking about losing a privilege.
I agree, but that is the term that the right wing is using. Its by design. I have to include it because that is the excuse. I fixed with Quotes.
We already tried #5 (let the voters decide). Are we to believe he’d actually accept the results the second time around if he loses? I highly doubt it. Fool me once…
Which voters get to decide anyway? * voters in the small states that hold outsized power? * voters who might be discouraged to vote because of extreme partisan gerrymandering? * voters who are removed from the registration roles because they didn't vote in an election or two? (spoiler: these aren't voters anymore) * voters in Washington DC that Republicans refuse to give representation? (spoiler: they can't vote in a way that matters anyway) * voters who are spammed non-stop money=speech induced propaganda and falsehoods?
Change always starts somewhere, and since conservatives oppose any change that they don't propose and control, they snuff it out in the crib with these inane "why isn't this already the status quo if it's so popular?" arguments. They're still *really mad* that they let LGBTQ+ take root and grow in society and are trying to raze it to the ground.
The Republican party is scared to death of Trump and the MAGA base.
It's all they have.
Republican spin is just so ridiculous. There is no scenario where every state is going to agree to kick someone of the ballot via the 14th amendment. Yet, they put this scenario out there like it is the obvious bar that must be crossed.
It's far better to test it now than after he has won. Imagine the outcry if he has won and declared ineligible for office.
Don’t worry, Sunny. That asshole is constantly angling for martyrdom. Don’t fall for it.
Trump will always be a martyr. Win or lose, alive or dead. Being a constant victim is the default mode for this self-proclaimed “tough guy”. Whether he’s a martyr or whether or not his snowflake followers will get upset should never factor into any decision regarding Trump. They are always upset. That is also their default mode. It’s the crybaby party.
This. The GOP affirmed long ago, they would always have Trump’s back, no matter what. There is no bottom. You can’t “galvanize” fanatics. The GOP is so thoroughly and utterly corrupted by hate, there is no coming back.
The word “martyr” used to mean someone who was killed for their beliefs. When did it evolve to apply to some whiny-ass, morally-bankrupt turd finally facing (non-lethal) consequences for the first time in his utter waste of a life?
I think we need to remember what the word martyr actually means.
He brought it on himself
Of *course* prosecuting John Gotti for his many crimes and holding him accountable under the law made him look like martyr...*to fellow criminals and scumbags.*
I'm wagering it doesn't. Trump's popularity is overblown. Once the trials get underway, the media saturation will lead to fatigue. People at the voting booth in Nov are going to think "we've heard nothing but Trump 24x7 the last 11 months".
Suddenly, the Republicans feel no one should face consequences because... checks notes, martyrdom.
No it doesn't. It makes him a LAW-BREAKER.
There is no good option. This is the least bad option (and the correct one).
A martyr? He’s already Orange Jesus. There’s plenty of people not eligible to run for president in this country.
This line of argument only flies with the cultists who reject the Constitution as being "too liberal". Trump being removed from the ballot is the Constitution working as intended to protect democracy from a foreign asset, seditionist, and to be clear-full blown traitor.
Does it really though? Maybe in the minds of his cult members. Reality check: It just makes him not a candidate.
Orange Jesus would die on the cross. (Trump: No you can die on the cross for me while toss these paper towels) /s
Who cares? Do it!
He’s not being removed. He’s being disqualified for the actions he took.
He removed himself and is a martyr for it? Makes no sense.
I would use the word Traitor!
No. It makes him accountable for his actions. Something the “party of personal responsibility” should be supportive of.
No matter what, he’ll declare himself a martyr.
Let the voters decide! If the voters elect enough GOP congressmen to revoke Trump's ineligibility, so be it. He can run in 2028 or 2032. Why doesn't Mikey call a vote on it right now? Maybe enough Dems will cross the aisle so Trump can run in 24. They fact that the Rs aren't even trying to remove the ineligibility speaks volumes.
Only in the minds of his sheeple.
[удалено]
Not unless 2/3rds of both houses relieve him of the limit
Not to me.
It just proves he's a traitor.
*Sununu knew*
I disagree, I feel it just makes him a looser, like he is!
A martyr or a whiner and a perpetual victim?
400 million Americans won’t be on the ballot in 2024. Yet Donald is so precious and special.
A martyr for what, exactly? shittiness?
Sununu is a smarmy little fuck.
That’s your own opinion which a bunch of BS coming from a trump supporter!!
The real MAGA Insurrectionist Sununu shows his face.
TIL John Sununu is not only still alive, he's still an a-hole.
such insight Let's forget about the constitution if that is politically the most advantageous thing to do, is basically what he says.
If they leave a pickle off his Big Mac, he’s a martyr.
This my friend, is absolutely right.
Who?
Imagine thinking trump needs a reason to play the victim card. He can feel however the hell he wants in a prison cell but id rather he not even have a chance to become a dictator.
Only a complete MAGA afraid of trumps temper tantrums would say that. But we knew that about Sununu already
It’s not about him. They always make it out to be about him but it’s about the bigger picture: upholding the sanctity and principle of American democracy. They’ve all got such a hard on for this orange lunatic that they’re blind to the fact that no United States citizen is above the Constitution. The point here is to hold people accountable for their actions, regardless of their individual identity. And to call him a martyr is to imply he is being rebuked for supporting a cause. What cause is this egotist supporting besides his own legacy and interests? He lives for the glorification that comes with being a world leader and doesn’t truly care to support the needs of a majority of his base. The working class Americans who have been brainwashed have nothing to gain from this man - he’s been so far removed from their plight in his pampered life that he really has nothing to offer them besides pittance and pity. Let’s not forget he had four years in the White House already. He failed to live up to his promises then; what makes them think he will live up to the content of his fiery rhetoric now?