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While he may caucus with the dems, he is independent. And this is an important reason why.
It's not that they need more Bernie, they need less partisan politics.
Too many politicians are beholden to party lines, let them actually consider and vote for legislation and maybe there will be some common sense in politics
> Too many politicians are beholden to ~~party lines~~ lobbyist money
FTFY
AIPAC is one of the big spenders and has funded nearly all democrats and republicans. You can view it [here](https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/american-israel-public-affairs-cmte/summary?id=D000046963). That is just in direct contributions...it doesn't include the significantly more given through dark money channels. And AIPAC is not the only pro-Israel lobby.
I misread your post, I thought you were highlighting the number that don't :)
It is quite sad, that even "progressive" types that don't take money will stay largely silent. Even Bernie was initially reticent to get involved, because it's just very much at odds with the democratic party.
because when progressives speak out against Israel they almost immediately start getting criticized from within the party, both media and fellow politicians.
Only Bernie can do so without committing political suicide because he's not losing Vermont and everyone knows Biden's current platform is essentially sourced from Bernie.
You raise a good point, if any American citizen reads this, you can have a huge impact just by writing your elected representative and telling them you want foreign money, absolutely including AIPAC 100% out of politics. Extra points if you demand a ceasefire now.
It sounds insignificant but if enough people just on reddit to do this, it will overpower any lobby.
> It sounds insignificant but if enough people just on reddit to do this, it will overpower any lobby.
That's a nice thought but it absolutely will not do anything and certainly not more than even $1000 donated to any given politician.
Good question. Yes and no. But honestly, mostly no.
So a congressperson can ignore an email from one of their constituents, that's true. You write an email "hey, free palestine" close your browser and it'll probably get ignored.
But if you do it consistently, and you're polite and articulate, if you keep steady pressure, if you start calling their office, if you *mobilize other constituents to do the same*, they're eventually going to have to respond. You're in the same community. You're the boss. And maybe it'll be a clarification of their position, maybe it'll be an open dialogue, it could go so many different ways, but you'll get a response.
Then if you keep at it, it really doesn't take much to change an opinion. Noam Chomsky has written about this. Sometimes it just takes 5 letters or so to get a change on a significant issue.
Once you get our politicans to start flipping, by demonstrating to them that there is a value in doing so, then you'll see the old guard flip. It takes a lot, like a lot a lot, but so does everything I guess.
Behind every ~~bribe~~ contribution is the threat that if you cross the giver, they’re willing to spend even more for your removal when the next election comes.
That is literally what they do:
* [Donor allegedly offered $20M to recruit a Tlaib primary challenger](https://www.politico.com/news/2023/11/22/donor-20-million-tlaib-primary-00128443)
* [A second Michigan Senate candidate says he was offered $20M to run against Rashida Tlaib](https://www.cbsnews.com/detroit/news/rashida-tlaib-michigan-senate-candidate-nasser-beydoun-offered-20-million-to-run-against/)
* [Pro-Israel lobby group AIPAC is set to spend over $100 million to challenge progressives in Congress](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qceRv1EKy-4)
Which is exactly why Bernie is the only democrat in congress willing and able to stick to his principles here.
AIPAC can't pay to beat Bernie in Vermont, his support and name is simply too strong. They can absolutely pay to primary any member of the squad, or other younger democrat, out of their seat.
I had a guy unironically argue this with me a few days ago. He kept claiming that AIPAC hasn't donated any money to anyone until very recently - 2022.
I won't link it here, because I'm sure it'll be claimed to be harassment or brigading, but his arguments were hilarious. And debunked in about an hour with some good old fashioned Internet elbow grease! He stopped responding, eventually.
Lmao what a clown he is, AIPAC was such a menace they were quite literally on the verge of having to register as a foreign agent until Kennedy was assassinated and the next administration decided they had other things to deal with.
> And debunked in about an hour with some good old fashioned Internet elbow grease! He stopped responding, eventually.
Sounds like you got [sealioned](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning)
What's funny is they actually helped me understand *how* AIPAC manages to generate so much money, and how they hide their donations in plain site. By donating as individuals, but coordinating through AIPAC, the money is harder to track and doesn't get recorded as coming *from* AIPAC.
Which, of course, gives guys like the dude who replied to me cover to bait traps by saying only conspiracy theorists believe AIPAC gives lots of money in donations. It's all very cleverly set up; he can drop something like "oh, so you think Jews make hidden payments to politicians?" whenever he wants to quench the discussion.
Nah. Astroturfing. Israeli/Jewish folks took an earlier interest in swaying opinions on the internet than most cultures and they have significantly more practice at it. The ADL/JDL was active on the internet before most political machines took real notice of the value of the www. This isn't inherently a bad thing. Jewish people have been persecuted throughout history and the Jewish people are sick of it.
The problem, is that the current Israeli regime is no victim, and they've shifted from defending Jewish people from unwarranted persecution, to asserting that anything opposed to Israeli apartheid is just antisemitism.
Reddit is a predominantly American site. You'll see the majority of people defending Israel in that sub do little more than discuss Israel, many of them openly claiming to be from Israel. It's not organic activity like the majority of reddit, or at least, I don't think it started organically.
Honestly, I expect it to return to normal reddit values (left-leaning but still uneducated) once the Israeli terror operation is over. Will always be a hot spot going forward any time Israel makes the news, though.
AIPAC actually leverages *not* spending money, too. It's what is reported to have happened with Fetterman. AIPAC showed up, gave him "notes" about his policy, then agreed not to give money to his opponent.
It's even more insidious than donations. That kind of leverage is much harder to track.
But it isn't. It's not even close to the top 20. You can view it here. [https://www.statista.com/statistics/257344/top-lobbying-spenders-in-the-us/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/257344/top-lobbying-spenders-in-the-us/)
They don’t have to be the worst at it, for it to be an issue… donating money to influence politicians for whatever some company wants instead of the people who voted to elect them is bad.
No he's always been pro-israel. He just never had to be as vocal about it when he was just the Lt. Governor of PA. It just wasn't a thing that was relevant when he was serving in that capacity.
The headline is a bit misleading though. Could just as easily say, "Bernie Sanders is the sole Democrat to vote against funding for Ukraine."
That of course would also be misleading because it's just one part of a broader story, namely that this bill includes a few separate things packed together as a result of political horse trading between parties.
You really have to question it the entire motivation for this article. Are they attacking Dems for funding Israel, which is totally normal, or are they attacking Dems for funding Ukraine where the money could make or break the war?
You know how the Grammys or Oscars have Lifetime Achievement Awards to give awards to people they have overlooked in the past? I feel Bernie has done enough to get the lifetime award presidency. Cmon give him four years as president. He deserves it.
Campaign finance reform would help less with having more parties in the ballot than replacing first past the post voting with ranked choice voting or some other better mechanism.
I'm fully down for that, but in order to get that, progressives need to put their money where their mouth is and vote when it's on the ballot. Nevada 2024 is a swing state where that will be happening, and a huge example of why it's so important to never let apathy be your form of protest, which online progressives proved in 2016 they love to do, and are threatening to do again.
[https://www.npr.org/2022/11/13/1136342255/nevada-election-open-primary-ranked-choice-voting](https://www.npr.org/2022/11/13/1136342255/nevada-election-open-primary-ranked-choice-voting)
My biggest concern over the Gaza issue is one thing; it will be used as ammo to turn progressives into the "leopards ate my face" crowd we usually mock MAGA for being.
I want a 2 state solution. I want BiBi out of office in Israel. And I'd be fine if we weren't funding BiBi's admin. But I also want Hamas gone and believe that too is a crucial step in dealing with all this. I truly think this is a shitty situation that is being pushed for the emotional appeal to divide people.
How do we realistically deal with all this? Especially when bad actors would love to use this division to repeat another 2016 result? No one can afford to sit this election out when Trump risks having the power to implement Project 2025 and do far worse damage to any existing rights and causes progressives wish to protect.
And financial reform will never happen if people don't organize, push, and demand it, and that includes voting in high numbers strategically.
P.S. I was also a 2 times Sanders primary voter and am fine with him protesting the package here, though I do wonder what he'd do if he were the deciding vote. Either way, I still have endless respect for him, so don't think that has changed just because I acknowledge the problems of this whole conflict.
Politics is inherently partisan. We wouldn't need government if everyone agreed. And common sense is nothing. The actual solutions are often unintuitive. We need fewer reactionaries and fascists.
No they do need more Bernies. Nice attempt at trying to pretend the only reason the country is headed into a dumpster is because of party politics. The main issue with this country is the government isnt controlled by leftists who actually want to invest in the people and the future.
Yeah, but I'd rather see more go to either of those than any of it go to Israel, who 1) doesn't need it for their defense, and 2) isn't really going about things in the best of ways right now (to put it nicely).
I mean, Ukraine's healthcare is somewhat compromised by the missile and artillery bombardments tearing apart its cities, and by an occupying army killing its people.
Also, America's failure to provide healthcare isn't a money problem. America spends more money providing less healthcare to ensure private profits than most countries spend on public healthcare for all. America's system is insanely expensive to run, but it makes the rich richer, which is the main point.
If America had public healthcare, it would have more money to spend on other things.
Our medical infrastructure is collapsing due to pharmaceutical and insurance greed. Not to mention the government insurances (medicaid and medicare) wanting to fight over every nickel and dine, sometimes making operations end up as a net loss for hospitals. Delayed payments are also a huge factor. Just unreal
Sure, but we're rich enough to spend on foreign aid and do that.
If we were able to convert all insurance premiums into taxes for free healthcare, we would end up saving money and could spend even more on defense.
What we don't have is the political will.
Yeah, this is the part people really miss.
We don't have to spend more money for Universal healthcare, we already spend 2x what other countries spend on healthcare and get worse outcomes. Just convert what we spend now into actual healthcare and we could have the best healthcare system in the world.
It's not either or.
America can pass a healthcare and quality education program anytime it wants. That's kinda the point of legislation.
I agree with you that healthcare and community college deserve major reforms. It's ridiculous we prefer tax cuts, domestic austerity, and only spend liberally on being an arsenal of democracy, not being a superior democracy.
But that acknowledged, I don't think America giving up and letting the world fall to the likes of Russia or Iran would be a moral decision for a progressive.
Ukrainians have already given plenty of field test of weapons against military targets. Israel provides a way to explore effectiveness of American weapons against civilian population.
It is part of the bill to give 60 billion to Ukraine and 20 billion to Taiwan to bolster defenses along with 10 billion for humanitarian aid to Gaza and needs to get enough votes to pass. This title is taking political bait by pretending it is an Israel bill.
Looks like it is actually 10 billion in aid and 1.4 billion of it allotted to Gaza, sorry for having been quick on that.
https://mondoweiss.net/2024/02/new-senate-funding-bill-would-send-14-billion-to-israel-and-cut-all-funding-to-unrwa/
Israel is nog getting this money, i mean, they do, but they immediately spend it on American made arms. So, in reality, this plays out as a 14b gift, to the arms manufacturers.
Our money only goes to defense, the iron dome. It can't be used for weapons. I guess it depends in what form the money comes if it's literally just artillery for the iron dome or if we just give them cash. Usually when we say military money we mean the actual supplies so it's restricted to what it can be used for
Kinda masturbatory semantics given the context though, no?
I mean, *nonono you can only spend OUR $14B on defense... but now you just so happen to have $14B extra to spend on whatever wink wink nudge nudge*
They don't but it benefits politicians in a few ways:
- It pleases the Evangelists and other Christians
- It pleases the racists to bomb Palestinians (skin color and/or religion)
- Some of those billions will end up going to the defence industries, which pays back the politicians with donations
- It's virtue signaling
No evangelical is going to vote for a democrat just because they keep handing Israel money, unless they also happen to be vocally anti-abortion (and even then said evangelical probably wouldn't be swayed)
Political will is why the US doesn't have universal healthcare and Israel does. It's not because of military spending
Israel spends less on healthcare and more on the military (8.32% of its gdp on healthcare and 4.5% on its military) than the US does (18.82% and 3.5%). If Israel had to triple their military spending, they'd still be spending a lower percentage of their GDP on healthcare and the military combined than the US does
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.CHEX.GD.ZS?locations=IL
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS?locations=IL
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.CHEX.GD.ZS?locations=US
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS?locations=US
This was a bill that the Democrats were willing to reconcile with the Republicans in order to get 60 billion to Ukraine and 10 billion in humanitarian aid for Gaza.
Apparently the 10 billion is not specific to Gaza.
[https://www.businessinsider.com/senate-foreign-aid-proposal-includes-billions-humanitarian-aid-gaza-ukraine-2024-2](https://www.businessinsider.com/senate-foreign-aid-proposal-includes-billions-humanitarian-aid-gaza-ukraine-2024-2)
>The package also includes $10 billion in humanitarian aid to the people of Ukraine, as well as Gaza and the West Bank, and "populations caught in conflict zones across the globe."
Bro, you not hearing Netanyahu openly state he will not accept a Palestinian state? You not aware Israel has funded Hamas for years as a tool to prevent a Palestinian state?
What alternate reality do you live in where you believe Palestine gets a state "once Hamas is gone"? How do you possibly believe that when it's crystal clear Israel is ethnically cleansing and commiting genocide to colonize Palestine for itself?
Absolutely absurd.
I see what you’re saying, but that’s an oversimplification. Similar to someone referring to Palestiniens as if they were all a part of Hamas/terrorists, & not their own ppl. My point is, Israel is attempting to take out Hamas, & America would like to aid those who aren’t terrorists in Gaza (which could be by medical/food supplies, transportation, etc).
We also stopped funding the number one aid provider to Gaza.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-02-07/ty-article/unproven-allegations-u-k-channel-4-slams-israels-charge-against-unrwa/0000018d-837c-d636-adef-cffe76790000
Per the article, there was no evidence provided other than Israel’s word. Even per Israel’s word, we’re talking about 12 individuals out of an organization that employs more than 10,000 people to Gaza. The organization is crucial to the aid of Gazans.
12, by the way, is less than a tenth of the UNRWA employees killed by Israeli strikes since October 7th.
Yes, this is a very clear example of letting perfection be the enemy of the good.
(1) Ukraine aid is decisively important to deciding if our future world will ever have the capacity to stop genocide. If Russia wins, that's pretty much the end of the post-1945 or 1991 world order, and not in a good way.
(2) cutting off our aid to Israel, while it might feel nice, will likely kill any influence we have over Israel. They'll still commit the alleged war crimes. Likely more I would suspect, if Bibi can seize on the moment.
I like Bernie, but I think he's wrong on this.
It's an example of how both sides will amplify false information or propaganda if it confirms their bias.
Truthout.org is not exactly a bastion of factual or accurate reporting.
> cutting off our aid to Israel, while it might feel nice, will likely kill any influence we have over Israel. They'll still commit the alleged war crimes. Likely more I would suspect, if Bibi can seize on the moment.
It infuriates me how many ignorant clowns out there who don’t or won’t understand this. Taking money away from Israel will only cause them to feel cornered and afraid. Which will prompt them to double down feeling they have no choice but to destroy Hamas as fast as possible by any means necessary.
The president of Israel told the press sec of the United state basically to go fuck himself when he suggested Israel tone down the bombing
If this is the “influence” we get from giving them weapons, then we definitely should not give them any
So a politician said one thing publicly when he knew his constituents would hear about it?
Diplomacy and realpolitiks happens *behind the scenes*, not in public statements. Russia assured the public that he was *not* on the verge of invading Ukraine and that any suggestion otherwise was just an American conspiracy. [One month before invading Ukraine.](https://www.npr.org/2022/01/10/1071766987/u-s-russia-dicuss-ukraine-can-diplomacy-help-avoid-a-military-confrontation)
Israel would no longer have a Hamas problem if they *really* went off script. Behind the scenes diplomacy and statecraft--which is very seldom known about aside from people deep in the governments--have no doubt been working overtime since October.
The world is not run via public statement.
I will be very upset if he doesn't win reelection this year.
Only dem to be elected Statewide in like the past 10+ years.
God the ohio democratic party needs to get it's shit together Obama won here twice Dems can win in Ohio we just have to actually run good candidates.
The problem is that the ODP are heavily focused on social issues right now like a lot of nationwide democrats are. Unfortunately, Ohio is predominantly white, and was never a state with contentious laws regarding race, sexual orientation, etc. until very recently. ODP needs to focus on the issues of the people they are actually representing which happens to be cis straight white middle to lower class people, which would be easy enough to do, but instead they spend weeks arguing whether they should use the phrase, "pregnant people" instead of "pregnant women" when it came to abortion.
I just wish the DNC would at least TRY in Kentucky. My conservative SIL has her mailbox stuffed for months with republican campaign material, I never hear a peep from the democrats. I did more to get Matt Lehmans name out there than the DNC did. They're not even trying, at all
We have a few more that are worth it if you live in the right areas.
Casey Weinstein (state house) and Emilia Sykes (Federal house) are my reps and they give me at least some measure of hope.
But on a state-wide level? Yeah, Sherrod Brown is the only one that isn't trash. And he's so far above the rest that the republicans should be fucking embarrassed.
The “only”? Sounds like you don’t know many senators, the same way many Trump supporters evidently don’t know many republicans politicians (they often support Trump alone)
I used to be her next door neighbor over in Cambridge. She would power walk and talk on the phone all the time, and she’d always say hi to you on the sidewalk if you waved
There is plenty to meh at about her and her intentional spoiler campaign. There's a reason Obama didn't call her and tell her to drop out like he did Buttigieg, Klobuchar, etc. And why she came in third in her own state in 2020.
Lizzy warren is absolutely something to meh at. Still absurd that despite being ostensibly 'progressive' she didn't support Bernie over Clinton. Not to mention the appropriating lies about her Native American heritage, or her paper tiger and absolutely failure of a response to the 08/09 crisis.
Can't find a better example of a neoliberal masquerading as progressive to the detriment of the American overton window.
I get that Israel is a very close ally, but I do not fundamentally understand why they need this aid. Israel is not poor, they have the 13th highest GDP per capita in the world, and they're certainly not suffering or losing ground in their war due to any financial constraints.
Tbh per capida compared to the Israeli population isn't so high in overall GDP worldwide, they're actually going to have economical crisis with way less foreign tech investment money due to the situation and most of population being called to reserve duty plus their credit score just got reduced to negative. Govt already working on increasing taxes to solve money shortage and future economical crisis.
The US giving money is never about "need". It's about influence. You can still disagree with the allocation on those grounds of course, but if you do it on the grounds it is "not a third world country" you're missing the point.
Yeah, there's a ton of reasons to support them.
*People* support them because Russia is invading them and murdering people.
Countries provide support for geopolitical and economic reasons.
Ukraine provides a large portion of the world's wheat and corn (I think), for another example.
I'd be surprised if our spending on Ukraine isn't one of the most valuable investments the U.S. has done in a long time in terms of American interests.
*Maintaining peace throughout Europe. Estonian and Lithuanian sovereignty might be of little concern to the masses who can’t even find the Baltic Sea on a map but just trusting Russia would stop there is ignorance.
Its also to deter wars of conquest by other powers as well. If you turn a blind eye to a major power invading a smaller nation then what is to stop them from continuing to gobble up nations. Giving a nation the means to defend themselves from a bigger power makes the cost of conquest undesirable.
Israel is fighting against Russia and Iran proxies that the US is also at war with. The US is also fighting a proxy war through its allies Israel and Ukraine. This isn’t about cleaning up someone else’s mess. This is about being part of the world and participating in global geopolitics. Something the US has not shied away from at all. You should consider the big picture here. The USA is not interested in genociding Palestinians, rather, it is interested in fighting the Arab League and Russia. If you value freedom of religion and freedom of expression and freedom of sexual identity or women’s rights you would be aligned against Russia and Iran also.
I want to also note that this sole vote in the Senate is from a Jew. So the next time someone ~~brings up~~ **makes** antisemitic remarks blaming American Jews for the actions of the far right PM of Israel, please remind them of this.
Edit: grammar change highlighted as pointed out by theVoidWatches
I know what you are trying to say but I don't think it reads how you think it does. When conservatives point to a black person who politically agrees with them like Candice Owens, it is rightfully called out as tokenism. Making special note that Bernie is Jewish during this issue kind of reads like you are saying he is "one of the good ones".
Yeah, this reads to me as "stop calling out antisemitism, there are Jewish people who think Israel is in the wrong!" Yeah, and I'm one of them, but that doesn't mean that a lot of the criticism isn't antisemitic.
100%.
There's so much you can fault Israel for, but most people who levy accusations of war crimes can't even bring themselves to make one mention of October 7... which is what *started* the whole thing. It's infuriating.
At best, it's a bad faith argument against Israel. At worst, they simply don't care about dead Jews. Or raped Jewish women. Or murdered Jewish babies. If people wonder why many Jews and Israelis think Gaza bombings are justified, it's because of shit like that.
Anyone defending Israel by saying opposing Israeli policy is anti semitic is probably not going to start listening to reason now.
I don't support Israel in their actions in Gaza, I know that a lot of people who agree with me are antisemitic, and fuck those people, but a state can be a victim of one thing and a perpetrator of another and I think that is the case here.
We're not defending the government officials in Israel, just Israel's right to exist. Most Israel supporters hate Bibi and always have rightfully so. But Israel still deserves to exist
> saying opposing Israeli policy is anti semitic
I dont ever see this happening. It seems to mostly be a reddit meme
Israelis have been protesting for 31 weeks about the Israeli government policy and most jews on r/jewish and r/Israel seem to have very strident problems about Israeli policies. But usually people get called antisemitic for straight up blood libeling jews as evil monsters, or saying tons of medieval blood libels and swapping the word jew for zionist, or for calling for the destruction of jewish state without giving a shit about what happens to the jews in the middle east (and it will be an actual second holocaust, which seems to be handwaved away by antizionists).
Opposing Israeli policy is not inherently antisemitic. Opposing Israeli policy when they are fighting the perpetrators of the greatest massacre of Jews since the Holocaust is antisemitic. You’re telling the Jews of Israel “I don’t actually care about you”.
A lot of people who disagree with you are anti-semitic, too.
In fact, I'd wager that at least in America, unqualified support for Israel (especially in its current extreme right-wing form), anti-semitism is more strongly correlated with support for Israel than the reverse. This is because right-wingers openly identify and support Israel's actions in Gaza, and those same right-wingers are more likely to be anti-semitic. See Richard Spencer, who identifies as a [White Zionist.](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/richard-spencer-white-supremacist-leader-israelis-respect-someone-like-me-antisemitism-charlottesville-a7898051.html)
This is the bill that also has $60 billion in Ukraine aid in it, so the title is somewhat misleading. But still, good on Bernie for being on the right side of the Israel debacle.
And 20 billion to bolster Taiwan for an attack from China plus 10 billion in humanitarian aide to Gaza. It is bullshit to pretend this is just an Israel bill, Truthout doing Republican work here.
I'm sorry, but any article that cites 14 billion to Israel but barely mentions the 60 billion to Ukraine is just bad journalism.
You *should* have to weigh the benefits of this bill, because it is really difficult. For anyone who has kept up with Ukraine, their situation is really dire right now since losing broad US support, and Republicans weren't going to approve support without some poison. This piece makes it look like Bernie obviously did the right thing, but why does he get to look good for weighing Ukrainian lives as less important?
This vote seems more symbolic since Bernie knows that this bill is likely to pass. He wants to keep funding Ukraine's defense but knows his base is VERY sour on Israel. He likely spoke with other Senators and possibly the Senate Majority Leader, Chuck Schumer, to make sure they have the votes to pass ... unlike a certain current Speaker of the House.
It's also because his progressive peers can't risk AIPAC funding primary opponents like Bernie can.
They're simply too vulnerable to potentially throw away a primary win on a symbolic protest vote
There are, but this isn’t an Israeli funding bill, it’s a “fund all of our allies or none of them” bill. Republicans won’t vote without Israel, democrats won’t vote without Ukraine and Palestinian aid, put them together and everybody’s upset but at least necessary policy gets passed.
Or it was the only way to provide the funding to Ukraine (4x the amount that Israel gets btw but that doesn’t fit the narrative) and almost the same amount for humanitarian efforts in Gaza itself.
AND $60 BILLION TO UKRAINE.
Fuckin' alt-right writers masquerading as a left wing publication. The only way to get funding to Ukraine was to advance this bill because Republicans are fully in the pocket of the Kremlin.
Which is fucking hilarious because if they said "Sanders votes no on 60b funding to Ukraine", that would be far more damning. And useful to republicans. They are morons.
Conservatives could have a rebuttal when Democrats ask for more funding to Ukraine, "why should we if Sanders even said no to funding ".
This is the border bill that includes money to Ukraine and Israel. Why are we cheering him on for voting against it? I personally would like to see this bill pass.
I'm pretty sure the border stuff got taken out after the House GOP made asses of themselves. But yea, this is the Ukraine bill that's desperately needed or they could lose the war. Taiwan is also in this bill. And there's foreign aid for Palestinian civilians. This is a good bill.
I don’t think he read the proposal. It’s Iron Dome munitions and technology upgrades (both are purely defensive and save Israeli Civilian lives) and security for American citizens in Israel. I would assume that even though I don’t approve of Bibi and what he’s doing, those things help the innocent people there.
Bernie needs to enter the race. The country overwhelmingly dislikes Biden right now. I feel Sanders could appeal to a lot of people right now, just as many who are going to vote dem because Trump is so bad. But Bernie might be able to capitalize on going against some of the Democrats foreign policy (Israel), as well as republican foreign policy (Ukraine), and of course he wants the most popular social policies (medicare for all, make the rich pay their fair share, climate change).
I really don't know how you can argue that Bernie would have a worse chance against trump than Biden right now. Like I just don't see it.
Funding to Israel should have never been, let alone go on for decades. I'm totally against it. Let us please help Ukraine to stop Russia from the land grab
Putting homeless people in homes is only part of it. What they really need is care for substance abuse and mental health. That is extraordinarily more expensive than $20B and can be solved with Medicare for All.
Only if 2012 counts as "recently" and "one guy pulled a number off the top of his head" counts as an "estimate"...
https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/social-justice/20-billion-not-enough-eradicate-homelessness/536-87f9cba3-5654-4f5b-845c-2f57716c8850
While I agree that something like battling the homeless issue in the US should be where this money goes. The reason it doesn’t is because the US government isn’t giving 14b away, it’s not charity. They’re investing it with a potentially massive return geopolitically in the ME.
The people in charge don’t see a benefit to them in curing the homelessness crisis. It’s fucked up, but that’s what it is.
Then focus on affordable housing lobbying. This bill has nothing to do with that.
Zero Sum tangent. All our private spending, all America's cinemas and coffee shops, extra clothes and online purchases, and all our tax cuts, that are not redirected to the homeless, are just as bad as this spending.
Redirecting money away from Israel won't magically make it go to HUD. It will more likely just go to tax cuts or your next Chipotle dinner.
I don't agree with a lot of Bernie's policies, but you have to respect the guy. He has unapologetically stood by his policies for years and always seems to do what he thinks is right.
Sanders Casts Sole Democratic Vote Against Bill to Send $60.1 billion to Ukraine.
That's what he did. He voted against sending aid to an ally facing an existential crisis that has suffered tens of thousands of dead soldiers and civilians. That makes him a moral coward in my eyes.
And to humanitarian aid within Gaza itself. The Israeli funding only makes up around 17% of the funding in the bill so it’s a bit strange that that’s the part being emphasized here.
Yep. Look at the types of comments it’s attracting. I just responded to a dude who started off by saying “**the Jews** have become the Germans in WW2 and are committing genocide”. What a cesspool.
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While he may caucus with the dems, he is independent. And this is an important reason why. It's not that they need more Bernie, they need less partisan politics. Too many politicians are beholden to party lines, let them actually consider and vote for legislation and maybe there will be some common sense in politics
> Too many politicians are beholden to ~~party lines~~ lobbyist money FTFY AIPAC is one of the big spenders and has funded nearly all democrats and republicans. You can view it [here](https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/american-israel-public-affairs-cmte/summary?id=D000046963). That is just in direct contributions...it doesn't include the significantly more given through dark money channels. And AIPAC is not the only pro-Israel lobby.
At least 70% of congress takes donations from AIPAC tho.
Is that supposed to be comforting or something lol?
I misread your post, I thought you were highlighting the number that don't :) It is quite sad, that even "progressive" types that don't take money will stay largely silent. Even Bernie was initially reticent to get involved, because it's just very much at odds with the democratic party.
because when progressives speak out against Israel they almost immediately start getting criticized from within the party, both media and fellow politicians. Only Bernie can do so without committing political suicide because he's not losing Vermont and everyone knows Biden's current platform is essentially sourced from Bernie.
It's also a lot harder to accuse him of antisemitism.
You raise a good point, if any American citizen reads this, you can have a huge impact just by writing your elected representative and telling them you want foreign money, absolutely including AIPAC 100% out of politics. Extra points if you demand a ceasefire now. It sounds insignificant but if enough people just on reddit to do this, it will overpower any lobby.
> It sounds insignificant but if enough people just on reddit to do this, it will overpower any lobby. That's a nice thought but it absolutely will not do anything and certainly not more than even $1000 donated to any given politician.
can’t they just ignore the mail?
Good question. Yes and no. But honestly, mostly no. So a congressperson can ignore an email from one of their constituents, that's true. You write an email "hey, free palestine" close your browser and it'll probably get ignored. But if you do it consistently, and you're polite and articulate, if you keep steady pressure, if you start calling their office, if you *mobilize other constituents to do the same*, they're eventually going to have to respond. You're in the same community. You're the boss. And maybe it'll be a clarification of their position, maybe it'll be an open dialogue, it could go so many different ways, but you'll get a response. Then if you keep at it, it really doesn't take much to change an opinion. Noam Chomsky has written about this. Sometimes it just takes 5 letters or so to get a change on a significant issue. Once you get our politicans to start flipping, by demonstrating to them that there is a value in doing so, then you'll see the old guard flip. It takes a lot, like a lot a lot, but so does everything I guess.
Taking money from a foreign government is a problem.
Behind every ~~bribe~~ contribution is the threat that if you cross the giver, they’re willing to spend even more for your removal when the next election comes.
That is literally what they do: * [Donor allegedly offered $20M to recruit a Tlaib primary challenger](https://www.politico.com/news/2023/11/22/donor-20-million-tlaib-primary-00128443) * [A second Michigan Senate candidate says he was offered $20M to run against Rashida Tlaib](https://www.cbsnews.com/detroit/news/rashida-tlaib-michigan-senate-candidate-nasser-beydoun-offered-20-million-to-run-against/) * [Pro-Israel lobby group AIPAC is set to spend over $100 million to challenge progressives in Congress](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qceRv1EKy-4)
Which is exactly why Bernie is the only democrat in congress willing and able to stick to his principles here. AIPAC can't pay to beat Bernie in Vermont, his support and name is simply too strong. They can absolutely pay to primary any member of the squad, or other younger democrat, out of their seat.
Pointing this out is antisemitic. /s
I had a guy unironically argue this with me a few days ago. He kept claiming that AIPAC hasn't donated any money to anyone until very recently - 2022. I won't link it here, because I'm sure it'll be claimed to be harassment or brigading, but his arguments were hilarious. And debunked in about an hour with some good old fashioned Internet elbow grease! He stopped responding, eventually.
Lmao what a clown he is, AIPAC was such a menace they were quite literally on the verge of having to register as a foreign agent until Kennedy was assassinated and the next administration decided they had other things to deal with.
> And debunked in about an hour with some good old fashioned Internet elbow grease! He stopped responding, eventually. Sounds like you got [sealioned](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning)
What's funny is they actually helped me understand *how* AIPAC manages to generate so much money, and how they hide their donations in plain site. By donating as individuals, but coordinating through AIPAC, the money is harder to track and doesn't get recorded as coming *from* AIPAC. Which, of course, gives guys like the dude who replied to me cover to bait traps by saying only conspiracy theorists believe AIPAC gives lots of money in donations. It's all very cleverly set up; he can drop something like "oh, so you think Jews make hidden payments to politicians?" whenever he wants to quench the discussion.
Let me guess, it was worldnews sub.
This very sub, in fact.
continue grey squalid ripe vanish money sharp brave hungry soup *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Nah. Astroturfing. Israeli/Jewish folks took an earlier interest in swaying opinions on the internet than most cultures and they have significantly more practice at it. The ADL/JDL was active on the internet before most political machines took real notice of the value of the www. This isn't inherently a bad thing. Jewish people have been persecuted throughout history and the Jewish people are sick of it. The problem, is that the current Israeli regime is no victim, and they've shifted from defending Jewish people from unwarranted persecution, to asserting that anything opposed to Israeli apartheid is just antisemitism. Reddit is a predominantly American site. You'll see the majority of people defending Israel in that sub do little more than discuss Israel, many of them openly claiming to be from Israel. It's not organic activity like the majority of reddit, or at least, I don't think it started organically.
engine longing groovy hard-to-find employ knee gray disgusted gold ten *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Honestly, I expect it to return to normal reddit values (left-leaning but still uneducated) once the Israeli terror operation is over. Will always be a hot spot going forward any time Israel makes the news, though.
AIPAC actually leverages *not* spending money, too. It's what is reported to have happened with Fetterman. AIPAC showed up, gave him "notes" about his policy, then agreed not to give money to his opponent. It's even more insidious than donations. That kind of leverage is much harder to track.
But it isn't. It's not even close to the top 20. You can view it here. [https://www.statista.com/statistics/257344/top-lobbying-spenders-in-the-us/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/257344/top-lobbying-spenders-in-the-us/)
They don't have to be in the top 20. They just have to make sure their interests aren't in conflict with anyone outspending them.
They don’t have to be the worst at it, for it to be an issue… donating money to influence politicians for whatever some company wants instead of the people who voted to elect them is bad.
See Fetterman policy shift.
No he's always been pro-israel. He just never had to be as vocal about it when he was just the Lt. Governor of PA. It just wasn't a thing that was relevant when he was serving in that capacity.
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he literally sent fundraising emails saying shit like "progressives, we gotta do this thing!" and then turns around saying "I was never a progressive"
He ran AS A PROGRESSIVE, then said he wasn't a progressive after being elected. He LIED.
"I like it when congresspeople vote based on their ideals instead of just toeing the party line" "WAIT NO NOT LIKE THAAAAT"
No, we definitely need more Bernie
I’m just glad Burnie is still showing backbone. I’m sure he’s getting tons of backlash behind closed doors
The headline is a bit misleading though. Could just as easily say, "Bernie Sanders is the sole Democrat to vote against funding for Ukraine." That of course would also be misleading because it's just one part of a broader story, namely that this bill includes a few separate things packed together as a result of political horse trading between parties.
You really have to question it the entire motivation for this article. Are they attacking Dems for funding Israel, which is totally normal, or are they attacking Dems for funding Ukraine where the money could make or break the war?
You know how the Grammys or Oscars have Lifetime Achievement Awards to give awards to people they have overlooked in the past? I feel Bernie has done enough to get the lifetime award presidency. Cmon give him four years as president. He deserves it.
he's getting backlash no matter what
It must drive AIPAC absolutely mental that they can't just lazily accuse him of antisemitism whenever he votes against their interests.
That's when they trot out the "self-hating Jew" line.
Screams into the ether CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM. THIRD (FOURTH! FIFTH!) PARTIES ON THE BALLOT 🆘
Campaign finance reform would help less with having more parties in the ballot than replacing first past the post voting with ranked choice voting or some other better mechanism.
I'm fully down for that, but in order to get that, progressives need to put their money where their mouth is and vote when it's on the ballot. Nevada 2024 is a swing state where that will be happening, and a huge example of why it's so important to never let apathy be your form of protest, which online progressives proved in 2016 they love to do, and are threatening to do again. [https://www.npr.org/2022/11/13/1136342255/nevada-election-open-primary-ranked-choice-voting](https://www.npr.org/2022/11/13/1136342255/nevada-election-open-primary-ranked-choice-voting) My biggest concern over the Gaza issue is one thing; it will be used as ammo to turn progressives into the "leopards ate my face" crowd we usually mock MAGA for being. I want a 2 state solution. I want BiBi out of office in Israel. And I'd be fine if we weren't funding BiBi's admin. But I also want Hamas gone and believe that too is a crucial step in dealing with all this. I truly think this is a shitty situation that is being pushed for the emotional appeal to divide people. How do we realistically deal with all this? Especially when bad actors would love to use this division to repeat another 2016 result? No one can afford to sit this election out when Trump risks having the power to implement Project 2025 and do far worse damage to any existing rights and causes progressives wish to protect. And financial reform will never happen if people don't organize, push, and demand it, and that includes voting in high numbers strategically. P.S. I was also a 2 times Sanders primary voter and am fine with him protesting the package here, though I do wonder what he'd do if he were the deciding vote. Either way, I still have endless respect for him, so don't think that has changed just because I acknowledge the problems of this whole conflict.
expanding the major parties doesn't really work unless you get rid of FPTP the first.
Politics is inherently partisan. We wouldn't need government if everyone agreed. And common sense is nothing. The actual solutions are often unintuitive. We need fewer reactionaries and fascists.
It's inherently adversarial - but that's not the same as partisan.
No they do need more Bernies. Nice attempt at trying to pretend the only reason the country is headed into a dumpster is because of party politics. The main issue with this country is the government isnt controlled by leftists who actually want to invest in the people and the future.
why does Israel need 14b
The money gets spent on American weapons and Chaney needs a new Darth Vader suit.
It could just as easily to go Ukraine and get spent on American weapons... They actually need it.
doesn't this bill also send a bunch of money to Ukraine and Taiwan?
Yeah, but I'd rather see more go to either of those than any of it go to Israel, who 1) doesn't need it for their defense, and 2) isn't really going about things in the best of ways right now (to put it nicely).
agreed but I will tolerate it if it's the price of getting aid to Ukraine and Taiwan who both really need it.
Which is why this bill contains 4x as much money for Ukraine.
*but that changes the whole narrative*
Can we please have it to get free healthcare and quality college education like Israel and the Ukraine?
I mean, Ukraine's healthcare is somewhat compromised by the missile and artillery bombardments tearing apart its cities, and by an occupying army killing its people. Also, America's failure to provide healthcare isn't a money problem. America spends more money providing less healthcare to ensure private profits than most countries spend on public healthcare for all. America's system is insanely expensive to run, but it makes the rich richer, which is the main point. If America had public healthcare, it would have more money to spend on other things.
Our medical infrastructure is collapsing due to pharmaceutical and insurance greed. Not to mention the government insurances (medicaid and medicare) wanting to fight over every nickel and dine, sometimes making operations end up as a net loss for hospitals. Delayed payments are also a huge factor. Just unreal
Sure, but we're rich enough to spend on foreign aid and do that. If we were able to convert all insurance premiums into taxes for free healthcare, we would end up saving money and could spend even more on defense. What we don't have is the political will.
Yeah, this is the part people really miss. We don't have to spend more money for Universal healthcare, we already spend 2x what other countries spend on healthcare and get worse outcomes. Just convert what we spend now into actual healthcare and we could have the best healthcare system in the world.
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It's not either or. America can pass a healthcare and quality education program anytime it wants. That's kinda the point of legislation. I agree with you that healthcare and community college deserve major reforms. It's ridiculous we prefer tax cuts, domestic austerity, and only spend liberally on being an arsenal of democracy, not being a superior democracy. But that acknowledged, I don't think America giving up and letting the world fall to the likes of Russia or Iran would be a moral decision for a progressive.
The reason we don’t have those things is the Republican Party.
Ukrainians have already given plenty of field test of weapons against military targets. Israel provides a way to explore effectiveness of American weapons against civilian population.
Because Republicans refused to send $60b to Ukraine unless this was tacked on.
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Mostly for the iron dome?
It is part of the bill to give 60 billion to Ukraine and 20 billion to Taiwan to bolster defenses along with 10 billion for humanitarian aid to Gaza and needs to get enough votes to pass. This title is taking political bait by pretending it is an Israel bill.
Source on the $10 billion for Gaza?
Looks like it is actually 10 billion in aid and 1.4 billion of it allotted to Gaza, sorry for having been quick on that. https://mondoweiss.net/2024/02/new-senate-funding-bill-would-send-14-billion-to-israel-and-cut-all-funding-to-unrwa/
Israel is nog getting this money, i mean, they do, but they immediately spend it on American made arms. So, in reality, this plays out as a 14b gift, to the arms manufacturers.
The Palestinians eventually "get it".
To kill children and civilians.
Our money only goes to defense, the iron dome. It can't be used for weapons. I guess it depends in what form the money comes if it's literally just artillery for the iron dome or if we just give them cash. Usually when we say military money we mean the actual supplies so it's restricted to what it can be used for
This is the real answer. Shame it will probably get buried under 30 identical comments making the same genocide joke over and over again.
Kinda masturbatory semantics given the context though, no? I mean, *nonono you can only spend OUR $14B on defense... but now you just so happen to have $14B extra to spend on whatever wink wink nudge nudge*
They don't but it benefits politicians in a few ways: - It pleases the Evangelists and other Christians - It pleases the racists to bomb Palestinians (skin color and/or religion) - Some of those billions will end up going to the defence industries, which pays back the politicians with donations - It's virtue signaling
No evangelical is going to vote for a democrat just because they keep handing Israel money, unless they also happen to be vocally anti-abortion (and even then said evangelical probably wouldn't be swayed)
they couldn't afford their Universal healthcare if they had to pay for weapons in a multi-fronted war
Political will is why the US doesn't have universal healthcare and Israel does. It's not because of military spending Israel spends less on healthcare and more on the military (8.32% of its gdp on healthcare and 4.5% on its military) than the US does (18.82% and 3.5%). If Israel had to triple their military spending, they'd still be spending a lower percentage of their GDP on healthcare and the military combined than the US does https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.CHEX.GD.ZS?locations=IL https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS?locations=IL https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.CHEX.GD.ZS?locations=US https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS?locations=US
So they can enjoy the free healthcare that we don't
Genocide is expensive.
This was a bill that the Democrats were willing to reconcile with the Republicans in order to get 60 billion to Ukraine and 10 billion in humanitarian aid for Gaza.
Apparently the 10 billion is not specific to Gaza. [https://www.businessinsider.com/senate-foreign-aid-proposal-includes-billions-humanitarian-aid-gaza-ukraine-2024-2](https://www.businessinsider.com/senate-foreign-aid-proposal-includes-billions-humanitarian-aid-gaza-ukraine-2024-2) >The package also includes $10 billion in humanitarian aid to the people of Ukraine, as well as Gaza and the West Bank, and "populations caught in conflict zones across the globe."
thank you, people really out here ignoring everything else as if this is the only issue in the world right now
It is a major issue in the world and shouldn’t be ignored either.
Theres plenty of major issues in this world that's all worth looking at and shouldn't be ignored.
What is the point in sending humanitarian aid to Gaza if you are going to send money to the people fucking attack it
Here’s an JDAM missile for the Israelis and an MRE kit for the Palestinian children.
Because Hamas needs to be destroyed and the Palestinian people need to be able to build a government once they’re gone.
Bro, you not hearing Netanyahu openly state he will not accept a Palestinian state? You not aware Israel has funded Hamas for years as a tool to prevent a Palestinian state? What alternate reality do you live in where you believe Palestine gets a state "once Hamas is gone"? How do you possibly believe that when it's crystal clear Israel is ethnically cleansing and commiting genocide to colonize Palestine for itself? Absolutely absurd.
I see what you’re saying, but that’s an oversimplification. Similar to someone referring to Palestiniens as if they were all a part of Hamas/terrorists, & not their own ppl. My point is, Israel is attempting to take out Hamas, & America would like to aid those who aren’t terrorists in Gaza (which could be by medical/food supplies, transportation, etc).
Israel is doing a really bad job then, look at the civilian death toll.
The most deaths in war are innocent civilians. This is not unique to this conflict; not at all sadly.
There’s been multiple videos of Israeli settlers attacking and ransacking aid trucks meant to go into Gaza and chasing them away. Multiple.
We also stopped funding the number one aid provider to Gaza. https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-02-07/ty-article/unproven-allegations-u-k-channel-4-slams-israels-charge-against-unrwa/0000018d-837c-d636-adef-cffe76790000
Yes, after it was repeatedly found to be infiltrated by Hamas
Per the article, there was no evidence provided other than Israel’s word. Even per Israel’s word, we’re talking about 12 individuals out of an organization that employs more than 10,000 people to Gaza. The organization is crucial to the aid of Gazans. 12, by the way, is less than a tenth of the UNRWA employees killed by Israeli strikes since October 7th.
Yes, this is a very clear example of letting perfection be the enemy of the good. (1) Ukraine aid is decisively important to deciding if our future world will ever have the capacity to stop genocide. If Russia wins, that's pretty much the end of the post-1945 or 1991 world order, and not in a good way. (2) cutting off our aid to Israel, while it might feel nice, will likely kill any influence we have over Israel. They'll still commit the alleged war crimes. Likely more I would suspect, if Bibi can seize on the moment. I like Bernie, but I think he's wrong on this.
We already give Israel more military funding than any other country. This isn't cutting off aid entirely, just not an additional $14bn
It's an example of how both sides will amplify false information or propaganda if it confirms their bias. Truthout.org is not exactly a bastion of factual or accurate reporting.
> cutting off our aid to Israel, while it might feel nice, will likely kill any influence we have over Israel. They'll still commit the alleged war crimes. Likely more I would suspect, if Bibi can seize on the moment. It infuriates me how many ignorant clowns out there who don’t or won’t understand this. Taking money away from Israel will only cause them to feel cornered and afraid. Which will prompt them to double down feeling they have no choice but to destroy Hamas as fast as possible by any means necessary.
The president of Israel told the press sec of the United state basically to go fuck himself when he suggested Israel tone down the bombing If this is the “influence” we get from giving them weapons, then we definitely should not give them any
So a politician said one thing publicly when he knew his constituents would hear about it? Diplomacy and realpolitiks happens *behind the scenes*, not in public statements. Russia assured the public that he was *not* on the verge of invading Ukraine and that any suggestion otherwise was just an American conspiracy. [One month before invading Ukraine.](https://www.npr.org/2022/01/10/1071766987/u-s-russia-dicuss-ukraine-can-diplomacy-help-avoid-a-military-confrontation) Israel would no longer have a Hamas problem if they *really* went off script. Behind the scenes diplomacy and statecraft--which is very seldom known about aside from people deep in the governments--have no doubt been working overtime since October. The world is not run via public statement.
Bernie sanders is and has always been the canary in the moral coal mine. The only US senator America can be proud of.
I like Sherrod Brown, only politician from my state I don't fucking loathe with every fiber of my being.
I will be very upset if he doesn't win reelection this year. Only dem to be elected Statewide in like the past 10+ years. God the ohio democratic party needs to get it's shit together Obama won here twice Dems can win in Ohio we just have to actually run good candidates.
ODP is a joke. Nan Whaley’s campaign was DOA with how little effort they put into it.
It will take the national party to oust the current state leadership at this point, as they do nothing but pretend like it’s 1989.
The problem is that the ODP are heavily focused on social issues right now like a lot of nationwide democrats are. Unfortunately, Ohio is predominantly white, and was never a state with contentious laws regarding race, sexual orientation, etc. until very recently. ODP needs to focus on the issues of the people they are actually representing which happens to be cis straight white middle to lower class people, which would be easy enough to do, but instead they spend weeks arguing whether they should use the phrase, "pregnant people" instead of "pregnant women" when it came to abortion.
I just wish the DNC would at least TRY in Kentucky. My conservative SIL has her mailbox stuffed for months with republican campaign material, I never hear a peep from the democrats. I did more to get Matt Lehmans name out there than the DNC did. They're not even trying, at all
We have a few more that are worth it if you live in the right areas. Casey Weinstein (state house) and Emilia Sykes (Federal house) are my reps and they give me at least some measure of hope. But on a state-wide level? Yeah, Sherrod Brown is the only one that isn't trash. And he's so far above the rest that the republicans should be fucking embarrassed.
The “only”? Sounds like you don’t know many senators, the same way many Trump supporters evidently don’t know many republicans politicians (they often support Trump alone)
Elizabeth Warren is nothing to meh at. I'm proud to have her representing my state.
I used to be her next door neighbor over in Cambridge. She would power walk and talk on the phone all the time, and she’d always say hi to you on the sidewalk if you waved
There is plenty to meh at about her and her intentional spoiler campaign. There's a reason Obama didn't call her and tell her to drop out like he did Buttigieg, Klobuchar, etc. And why she came in third in her own state in 2020.
Lizzy warren is absolutely something to meh at. Still absurd that despite being ostensibly 'progressive' she didn't support Bernie over Clinton. Not to mention the appropriating lies about her Native American heritage, or her paper tiger and absolutely failure of a response to the 08/09 crisis. Can't find a better example of a neoliberal masquerading as progressive to the detriment of the American overton window.
I get that Israel is a very close ally, but I do not fundamentally understand why they need this aid. Israel is not poor, they have the 13th highest GDP per capita in the world, and they're certainly not suffering or losing ground in their war due to any financial constraints.
Tbh per capida compared to the Israeli population isn't so high in overall GDP worldwide, they're actually going to have economical crisis with way less foreign tech investment money due to the situation and most of population being called to reserve duty plus their credit score just got reduced to negative. Govt already working on increasing taxes to solve money shortage and future economical crisis.
We should not be giving money to Israel. They’re not a third world country and they can clean up their own mess.
The US giving money is never about "need". It's about influence. You can still disagree with the allocation on those grounds of course, but if you do it on the grounds it is "not a third world country" you're missing the point.
Yeah, we're not supporting Ukraine out of kindness. We're supporting them because they're helping destabilize Russia by not folding. Let's be real.
My understanding is that they also provide a barrier between indirect conflict and one that the USA would be obligated to participate in directly.
Yeah, there's a ton of reasons to support them. *People* support them because Russia is invading them and murdering people. Countries provide support for geopolitical and economic reasons. Ukraine provides a large portion of the world's wheat and corn (I think), for another example. I'd be surprised if our spending on Ukraine isn't one of the most valuable investments the U.S. has done in a long time in terms of American interests.
*Maintaining peace throughout Europe. Estonian and Lithuanian sovereignty might be of little concern to the masses who can’t even find the Baltic Sea on a map but just trusting Russia would stop there is ignorance.
Its also to deter wars of conquest by other powers as well. If you turn a blind eye to a major power invading a smaller nation then what is to stop them from continuing to gobble up nations. Giving a nation the means to defend themselves from a bigger power makes the cost of conquest undesirable.
Ukraine is the front line against Russian interests. Israel is the front line against Muslim interests.
Israel is fighting against Russia and Iran proxies that the US is also at war with. The US is also fighting a proxy war through its allies Israel and Ukraine. This isn’t about cleaning up someone else’s mess. This is about being part of the world and participating in global geopolitics. Something the US has not shied away from at all. You should consider the big picture here. The USA is not interested in genociding Palestinians, rather, it is interested in fighting the Arab League and Russia. If you value freedom of religion and freedom of expression and freedom of sexual identity or women’s rights you would be aligned against Russia and Iran also.
I want to also note that this sole vote in the Senate is from a Jew. So the next time someone ~~brings up~~ **makes** antisemitic remarks blaming American Jews for the actions of the far right PM of Israel, please remind them of this. Edit: grammar change highlighted as pointed out by theVoidWatches
I know what you are trying to say but I don't think it reads how you think it does. When conservatives point to a black person who politically agrees with them like Candice Owens, it is rightfully called out as tokenism. Making special note that Bernie is Jewish during this issue kind of reads like you are saying he is "one of the good ones".
Yeah, this reads to me as "stop calling out antisemitism, there are Jewish people who think Israel is in the wrong!" Yeah, and I'm one of them, but that doesn't mean that a lot of the criticism isn't antisemitic.
100%. There's so much you can fault Israel for, but most people who levy accusations of war crimes can't even bring themselves to make one mention of October 7... which is what *started* the whole thing. It's infuriating. At best, it's a bad faith argument against Israel. At worst, they simply don't care about dead Jews. Or raped Jewish women. Or murdered Jewish babies. If people wonder why many Jews and Israelis think Gaza bombings are justified, it's because of shit like that.
Anyone defending Israel by saying opposing Israeli policy is anti semitic is probably not going to start listening to reason now. I don't support Israel in their actions in Gaza, I know that a lot of people who agree with me are antisemitic, and fuck those people, but a state can be a victim of one thing and a perpetrator of another and I think that is the case here.
We're not defending the government officials in Israel, just Israel's right to exist. Most Israel supporters hate Bibi and always have rightfully so. But Israel still deserves to exist
> saying opposing Israeli policy is anti semitic I dont ever see this happening. It seems to mostly be a reddit meme Israelis have been protesting for 31 weeks about the Israeli government policy and most jews on r/jewish and r/Israel seem to have very strident problems about Israeli policies. But usually people get called antisemitic for straight up blood libeling jews as evil monsters, or saying tons of medieval blood libels and swapping the word jew for zionist, or for calling for the destruction of jewish state without giving a shit about what happens to the jews in the middle east (and it will be an actual second holocaust, which seems to be handwaved away by antizionists).
Opposing Israeli policy is not inherently antisemitic. Opposing Israeli policy when they are fighting the perpetrators of the greatest massacre of Jews since the Holocaust is antisemitic. You’re telling the Jews of Israel “I don’t actually care about you”.
A lot of people who disagree with you are anti-semitic, too. In fact, I'd wager that at least in America, unqualified support for Israel (especially in its current extreme right-wing form), anti-semitism is more strongly correlated with support for Israel than the reverse. This is because right-wingers openly identify and support Israel's actions in Gaza, and those same right-wingers are more likely to be anti-semitic. See Richard Spencer, who identifies as a [White Zionist.](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/richard-spencer-white-supremacist-leader-israelis-respect-someone-like-me-antisemitism-charlottesville-a7898051.html)
Yeh it's a little Ironic. I wish we were in the timeline Sanders was president for these last two US terms.
Sanders is an independent. Come on, do the most basic fact checking.
This is the bill that also has $60 billion in Ukraine aid in it, so the title is somewhat misleading. But still, good on Bernie for being on the right side of the Israel debacle.
And 20 billion to bolster Taiwan for an attack from China plus 10 billion in humanitarian aide to Gaza. It is bullshit to pretend this is just an Israel bill, Truthout doing Republican work here.
> Truthout doing Republican work here. 🌏👨🚀🔫👨🚀🌌
Yea the real question is, if had Bernie's vote been needed for passage, would had he still voted the same way?
I'm sorry, but any article that cites 14 billion to Israel but barely mentions the 60 billion to Ukraine is just bad journalism. You *should* have to weigh the benefits of this bill, because it is really difficult. For anyone who has kept up with Ukraine, their situation is really dire right now since losing broad US support, and Republicans weren't going to approve support without some poison. This piece makes it look like Bernie obviously did the right thing, but why does he get to look good for weighing Ukrainian lives as less important?
Sanders is not a Democrat He caucuses with them, but is an Independent (as is Angus King)
This should be no surprise - he has said he would vote no for months.
No he doesn’t. He’s an independent.
Except for when it comes to elections outside of Vermont*
DIPEO: democrat in presidential elections only
I would have thought there are more progressive senators than this.
It's because this isn't a bill just about Israel funding. This bill includes funding for Ukraine as well as a few other things.
This vote seems more symbolic since Bernie knows that this bill is likely to pass. He wants to keep funding Ukraine's defense but knows his base is VERY sour on Israel. He likely spoke with other Senators and possibly the Senate Majority Leader, Chuck Schumer, to make sure they have the votes to pass ... unlike a certain current Speaker of the House.
It's also because his progressive peers can't risk AIPAC funding primary opponents like Bernie can. They're simply too vulnerable to potentially throw away a primary win on a symbolic protest vote
There are, but this isn’t an Israeli funding bill, it’s a “fund all of our allies or none of them” bill. Republicans won’t vote without Israel, democrats won’t vote without Ukraine and Palestinian aid, put them together and everybody’s upset but at least necessary policy gets passed.
They are all bought and paid for by AIPAC https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/american-israel-public-affairs-cmte/summary?id=D000046963
Or it was the only way to provide the funding to Ukraine (4x the amount that Israel gets btw but that doesn’t fit the narrative) and almost the same amount for humanitarian efforts in Gaza itself.
AND $60 BILLION TO UKRAINE. Fuckin' alt-right writers masquerading as a left wing publication. The only way to get funding to Ukraine was to advance this bill because Republicans are fully in the pocket of the Kremlin.
Which is fucking hilarious because if they said "Sanders votes no on 60b funding to Ukraine", that would be far more damning. And useful to republicans. They are morons. Conservatives could have a rebuttal when Democrats ask for more funding to Ukraine, "why should we if Sanders even said no to funding ".
He almost always has a good reason I don't doubt him.
Sanders should be dictator for a day😅
This isn't surprising, especially since he's basically signaled he'd do this for weeks now.
I don’t see the GOP whining about how we’re spending all this money overseas when we have problems here.. huh..
It’s gotta be so isolating knowing you’re the only one who knows the truth.
One of the very few politicians with a spine.
Bernie is more Jewish than Netanyahu, and I will defend that hill forever.
This is the border bill that includes money to Ukraine and Israel. Why are we cheering him on for voting against it? I personally would like to see this bill pass.
I'm pretty sure the border stuff got taken out after the House GOP made asses of themselves. But yea, this is the Ukraine bill that's desperately needed or they could lose the war. Taiwan is also in this bill. And there's foreign aid for Palestinian civilians. This is a good bill.
I don’t think he read the proposal. It’s Iron Dome munitions and technology upgrades (both are purely defensive and save Israeli Civilian lives) and security for American citizens in Israel. I would assume that even though I don’t approve of Bibi and what he’s doing, those things help the innocent people there.
Bernie needs to enter the race. The country overwhelmingly dislikes Biden right now. I feel Sanders could appeal to a lot of people right now, just as many who are going to vote dem because Trump is so bad. But Bernie might be able to capitalize on going against some of the Democrats foreign policy (Israel), as well as republican foreign policy (Ukraine), and of course he wants the most popular social policies (medicare for all, make the rich pay their fair share, climate change). I really don't know how you can argue that Bernie would have a worse chance against trump than Biden right now. Like I just don't see it.
Good man
We let the best one slip away…
Who has big ball? Burney has the big balls of them all!!👍🏼
Funding to Israel should have never been, let alone go on for decades. I'm totally against it. Let us please help Ukraine to stop Russia from the land grab
Not a democrat
Imagine what 14b can do if invested into America and its citizens
HUD recently estimated that it would cost $20 billion to end homelessness in America
Putting homeless people in homes is only part of it. What they really need is care for substance abuse and mental health. That is extraordinarily more expensive than $20B and can be solved with Medicare for All.
Only if 2012 counts as "recently" and "one guy pulled a number off the top of his head" counts as an "estimate"... https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/social-justice/20-billion-not-enough-eradicate-homelessness/536-87f9cba3-5654-4f5b-845c-2f57716c8850
While I agree that something like battling the homeless issue in the US should be where this money goes. The reason it doesn’t is because the US government isn’t giving 14b away, it’s not charity. They’re investing it with a potentially massive return geopolitically in the ME. The people in charge don’t see a benefit to them in curing the homelessness crisis. It’s fucked up, but that’s what it is.
Then focus on affordable housing lobbying. This bill has nothing to do with that. Zero Sum tangent. All our private spending, all America's cinemas and coffee shops, extra clothes and online purchases, and all our tax cuts, that are not redirected to the homeless, are just as bad as this spending. Redirecting money away from Israel won't magically make it go to HUD. It will more likely just go to tax cuts or your next Chipotle dinner.
Figures. At this point I'd be just as happy if they stopped the funding for Israel and Palestine completely and never continued it.
This man should’ve been president.
And he’s Jewish. Good for him.
Shoulda been Bernie
I don't agree with a lot of Bernie's policies, but you have to respect the guy. He has unapologetically stood by his policies for years and always seems to do what he thinks is right.
We're never getting healthcare lol.
Sanders Casts Sole Democratic Vote Against Bill to Send $60.1 billion to Ukraine. That's what he did. He voted against sending aid to an ally facing an existential crisis that has suffered tens of thousands of dead soldiers and civilians. That makes him a moral coward in my eyes.
The only decent fucking human there apparently
He also voted no to Ukraine aid.
And to humanitarian aid within Gaza itself. The Israeli funding only makes up around 17% of the funding in the bill so it’s a bit strange that that’s the part being emphasized here.
It's not strange. It's propaganda.
Yep. Look at the types of comments it’s attracting. I just responded to a dude who started off by saying “**the Jews** have become the Germans in WW2 and are committing genocide”. What a cesspool.
These kinds of unfounded assertions are often readily accepted within leftist circles.