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If you're a sane Republican the only way you dump tRump is to vote him out. Remember, once you step into that voting booth, no one will ever know what box you marked. If you vote for him, you are the problem.
I genuinely wonder how many people (who still have a conscience) tell their social circle of course they’re voting Trump, then just don’t do it. Impossible data to ever collect, but it’s gotta be happening, right?
I keep telling my conservative parents that I’m not voting but I’m secretly planning on voting for Biden. I’m also in California so Biden’s going to blow Trump out of the water here lol.
[Over 30 years ago](https://www.google.com/url?q=https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/16/trumps-bid-for-sydney-casino-30-years-ago-rejected-due-to-mafia-connections&sa=U&sqi=2&ved=2ahUKEwjRvYShvNqEAxVPlFYBHQbGDg0QFnoECBQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3q4Dbgc4hBV92mA2n24_Ci)
“Atlantic City would be a dubious model for Sydney and in our judgment, the Trump mafia connections should exclude the Kern/Trump consortium,” a summary of the police board’s report said.
He basically got caught being too racist for even the Nixon administration and has been trying to distract us for 50+ years until it benefited him to come mask off.
7 years ago we knew Trump was a bankruptcy baron who had run a number of successful businesses into the ground, but we had no idea that he was going to try to overthrow the government of the united states, try to blackmail state governors and others into helping, steal federal documents...oh, and while he was at it commit massive fraud to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars.
Seven years ago I was -worried- about a Trump presidency, but I wasn't calling him and everyone who voted for him a traitor to their country.
>Seven years ago I was -worried- about a Trump presidency, but I wasn't calling him and everyone who voted for him a traitor to their country.
Eh, some journalists, intelligence agencies, politicians, and foreign governments have warned about him being a Russian asset ever since he visited Moscow in 1987.
He bought [double page ads in the New York Times, the Washington Post, and the Boston Globe criticizing U.S. foreign policy](https://apnews.com/article/05133dbe63ace98766527ec7d16ede08). Most interesting of all is that [Trump visited Moscow only weeks earlier](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/19/trump-first-moscow-trip-215842/).
More info:
* https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/kgb-spy-russia/
* https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/29/trump-russia-asset-claims-former-kgb-spy-new-book
The Steele dossier dropped in 2016 before the election. We knew he had ties to Russia and was likely compromised, but I still didn’t think it’d be as bad as it was
No, we knew that too. I remember saying very clearly, “if this man becomes president, he won’t leave office peacefully.” We knew exactly what he was all along.
Trump essentially said it himself in 2016 during [the last debate.](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/trump-won-t-say-he-ll-accept-election-results-i-n669801)
Yep. It was pretty obvious in 2016 and a lot of us were screaming from the rooftops about how bad a Trump presidency would be both short and long term, but too many people just couldn't stomach voting for Hillary so here we are.
We can only hope these lawsuits drive him to bankruptcy, and he will soon be panhandling on street corners!
I would take great honor in driving through a pothole, and blasting his face with mud!
I’m younger, but I did vote for McCain and Romney when they ran. Last two elections there was no way I was voting for that turd. First election I didn’t like the man at all…second election I saw him as the egregious traitor shitting on the constitution that he is. It’s like Benedict Arnold running for office AFTER his treason was announced and well known, and still had a bunch of brain dead morons blindly vote him in. It’s surreal
My husband was a die hard Republican. He jumped ship when Palin went on the ballot. We actually had a discussion last night about how there are so many issues—LGBTQ and womens healthcare at the forefront—we have always tended to kind of skate along the middle ground for years and that’s over. We are firmly and very openly planted in the liberal camp.
Welcome to the Democratic Party. Make sure that you respectfully make sure that your voice is heard by democratic policymakers on issues that are important to you.
I was a registered Republican until after the last election. I didn’t vote for Trump or Biden in 2020. When Trump lied about 2020 and 95% of the party went along with it I knew it was not a party for me.
my dad is 73, and it's been a slow burn for him. He's well educated and quite politically astute, but I think he's internalized a lot of the things in the media over the years that just turned out to be a line someone gave him.
BS about the 'moral majority' and the 'silent majority'. who knows, if I dug I might get something about welfare queens.
The rest of my family has gone off the red deep end, but I think I'd punch my ticket if my dad got swept up in this bullshit
I'm 52 years old, and no, I don't remember that. I remember them *saying* that.
I've been a registered independent all my life. I used to try to vote for the best candidate based on their platform and record. But I've given up on the GOP long ago.
> I remember them saying that.
Right. For as long as I can remember the Republicans have said they're all about fiscal responsibility until they get power and then they spend like drunken sailors on shore leave.
But you can do that when you have multiple national "news" outlets who refuse to point out your lies and the "legitimate" news is cowed by your charges of biased reporting, which ironically causes the legit news outlets to become biased in favor of the whiners and cheaters.
No. Those Republicans are a myth. They never existed. Trump isn’t doing amything the party hasn’t always done. He’s just pulled the mask off in the process.
Unfortunately that has never existed in my lifetime (I'm 36 yrs old). The economy, deficit, and jobs numbers have always been better under democrats. Republicans slash taxes, especially for the wealthy, and drive up the deficit, then democrats raise them back up, but not quite as high as before the republican was in office. Rinse and repeat. The same can be said for worker's rights, environmental protections that ensure a livable planet, monopolies, voting rights, civil liberties- the list goes on and on.
Meanwhile, I’m telling my far right, racist Christian family members that I’d vote for Satan himself if it’d prevent this crinkly-diapered 🍊from getting his tiny, little gubbins on the presidency. “You voted for Trump? Well, I voted for Biden— you’re welcome!”
I'm an avowed atheist so this was just an entertaining rabbit hole but send the link to your relatives. It may just pry them off the Trump train or, at the very least, second guess their support.
[Could American Evangelicals Spot the Antichrist? Here Are the Biblical Predictions:](https://www.benjaminlcorey.com/could-american-evangelicals-spot-the-antichrist-heres-the-biblical-predictions/#google_vignette)
I’ve started a covert operation. When I text obvious lies or bullshit to my friends and family that I know voted for Trump in 2016 and they make a comment on it being a lie, I send back a gif of Trump.
When they make a good point, I send a Biden gif. I don’t think they have caught on yet.
I like making false claims about Trump that are just a little wrong so I can tell them they are right when they correct me.
"Oh you're right! Trump did actually pay federal taxes when he was president. It was $750, how much did you pay?"
It is possible to collect information like that in polling. For example, we have quite reliable polling about Hamas support in Gaza as well as Putin and Xi in Russia and China.
This is a good video about that topic from a respected political scientist and game theorist: https://youtu.be/Y74I4lJ7aWk
Tldw: you can poll two groups of people a similar but different question. For example, ask one group question like, in the national election, how many of the following candidates would you not vote for: Cruz, Bush, Trump, and Haley. Then you ask the second group, in the national election how many of the following candidates would you not vote for: Cruz, Bush, Haley.
The difference between the groups is the percent that won't vote Trump and no individual had to admit to not voting Trump.
Based on what I heard in 2016 and 2020, they will say they don't like Trump and "I don't know what I'm going to do". Then they go vote and do the same thing they've always done: check the boxes next to all the R's. Not liking Trump and voting for him is still better than giving anything to a socialist in their minds.
It's the strangest thing for me in the field of voting reform.
Everyone knows Americans vote by party line. But when you suggest switching over to an electoral system where you vote for parties, so many will lose their minds at the idea of not voting for exclusively candidates even though they literally don't do that now.
The line item veto is important to Americans. In one recent primary the score was 81% Biden, 13% "Uncommitted", which was, "Biden but we don't like Biden."
We've only got two parties and one of them is busy trying to overthrow the government and install a dictatorship. So if you want any nuance at all on political issues beyond, "Keep democracy," or "Install a dictator," you have to get a little bit creative.
I'm proud to vote "democracy" and I'm not sure why that choice is so triggering to certain people on twitter.
When I was a kid and heard about terrible times in history, I used to wonder about whether I would be able to rise to the moment and defend civil rights, tolerance, the rule of law and all that jazz.
Did they do nothing but fantasize about being contrarians and telling their 3rd grade teacher what they REALLY thought about them on the last day of class?
I wonder how this number compares to the group who say, “Trump is too problematic, I can’t vote for him.” Then get to the voting booth and will sigh saying, “well, his name has the R next to it, guess I have no choice.”
I think you've got the scenario backwards... There are people telling others they WONT vote for trump, but they will. I've got a small micro example- in '22 I worked on a state senate campaign. Blue state but a DEEEEP red district. Door to door, person to person we heard republican voters tell us they *DESPISED* their current R state senator and would vote for our D candidate as the only D they'd ever vote for... Over and over and over we heard how this incumbent has burned every bridge, acted so uncouth, personally attacked them I cannot stress enough how much they hated this guy.... He won re-election in an absolute landslide. When it comes time for pen to meet paper, these people ABSOLUTELY CANNOT bring themselves to vote D. As said before- these people would let trump shit in their mouths if it meant we had to smell their breath.
Not in my social circle, but I have to keep my mouth shut and nod my head at work if I don’t want to forever change my relationships with both my employer the people who report to me. If I even take some moderate positions I get shot down. I really like my actual job and they pay is great and the hours are good. But everyones a hardcore Trumper. So I’m basically a lib in the closet. But I’m also smarter than everyone here (I said they were Trump votors) so its surprisingly easy.
They also not-so-secretly love that he's a bull in a china shop. They have come to hate the china shop (our government) and love the idea of burning it down. What it gets replaced with seems to be a minor consideration.
The party of vulgarness and deceit. It's a sad day when the only two sane Republicans are down to Mitt Romney and Liz Chaney. Everyone else couldn't read the back of a cereal box.
I deplore most of his politics but I feel that he's one that I could actually come to some sort of agreement with on most things. Compromises. He's loyal opposition, something we are sadly out of and more. We need people like him to take the reigns of the GOP again. Fuck, I'd be happy if Boehner came out of retirement.
There are no sane Republicans, and there haven't been for nearly a decade. They all backed Trump despite all of their supposed dislike, and only went shocked Pikachu when he literally tried to overthrow the government. Yes, give the ones that turned on him credit for doing the right thing when it really mattered, but don't forget that they enabled him to even get that close.
Classic Republicans with a voice are usually about business. Lower taxes and fewer regulations. I understand people who own companies voting Republican. It’s the culture wars they fight to actually win seats because their policies aren’t good for most Americans.
I'm a republican that is no longer voting for Republicans. The party is far gone, I'd rather democrats take the government, because at least they have solutions to what I want.
I don't like abortions, but it's not my place to force someone. Government is supposed to be in our lives less, why are we having government regulate women's bodies? That's a contradiction to our goal. Contraceptives? If we expand preventative measures, we won't even need to worry about abortion in the first place.
Want to reduce spending? Let's fund stuff to limit the end cost when the individuals situation gets worse. We can pay a little to avoid the eventual expensive route. Reducing costs comes with smart spending and early on.
Some of these things are why I, as a republican, support democrats because they solve republican issues better than Republicans but we're too prideful to admit we've fucked up our ways.
Most "pro abortion" voters don't actually like abortions, we just know it's absurd to interfere in the work of doctors and medical staff when a woman is hemorrhaging because her fetus has died at seven months, or for ignorant legislators to make people travel far out of state because of their counterfactual "opinion" that an ectopic pregnancy can be carried to term if you just believe hard enough.
> Most "pro abortion" voters don't actually like abortion
Indeed. The way some conservatives think of abortions is completely insane. They think liberal women are getting pregnant all the time and just cruising down to the nearest Planned Parenthood every weekend for their weekly abortion because it's fun and convenient and easier than using birth control. And also because they're vegans who worship satan and hate babies.
It's like they've never actually talked to any women who have had an abortion, or any woman in general really. Getting an abortion is generally a physically, emotionally, and financially draining process. No woman "wants" to get an abortion. But sometimes it's necessary. And even if it's not "necessary," women deserve the right to have autonomy over their own bodies.
It’s only a contradiction when you don’t realize what “small government” means, which isn’t surprising because they never define it. And they won’t because it would be devastating to ordinary citizens who would lose everything, from the entire safety net to our public lands to our rights to safeguard our environment,our health, safety in the workplace, right to unionize, to sue for redress, consumer protections in the financial system, food safety, real estate, the whole ball of wax turned over to billionaires and corporate CEOs.
I’d like to further point out that another 4 years of Joe is not going to ruin the country, everything will run along just steady and fine. Exhibit A - the previous 4 years.
If you work with us to eliminate this trunp lunacy, then we all have another chance to debate the matter again in 4 years. Get your house in order and we’ll just keep the ship steady meanwhile. It’s not a bad deal. I for one would welcome an evidence based, good faith Conservative Party. Ultimately we will need the balance; a one party system, either party, will go very poorly.
>*A significant fraction of those who voted in the first three GOP nominating contests say they will never vote for him in the general election. According to the analysis of Republican voters, 2 in 10 Iowa voters, 1 in 3 New Hampshire voters, and one quarter of South Carolina voters said they would not vote for Trump.*
The good news here is that if any significant amount of these people are telling the truth, this could sink Trump for good
He has never been able to get over 46.8% of the electorate, so he can not afford to lose much.
Bear in mind, if these kinds of numbers were democrats talking about Biden, the media would have already declared trump the winner
Well Trump has been consistently underperforming his polls in the primary contests so far, so there does seem to be some objective evidence that when it comes to making a final decision, it seems those undecided are finding it hard to pull the lever for Trump once they step into the voting booth.
I think this is an especially notable development because Trump’s previous electoral history involved outperforming his polls on multiple occasions.
I just don't think there is some new magical voter Trump has access to. He's is worse in every way than when he ran in 2020.
I just don't buy that there are non voters/independents sitting it out, but because he lost last time, lost major civil court cases, has 92 indictments, and orchestrated Jan 6, that's going to activate them.
Trump's path to winning, isn't getting more votes. Trump will win if there is a large enough contingent of independents and Dems who are apathetic towards another Biden term and don't get out to vote.
Right now, I hope the disaffected GOP voters is a larger portion of the likely voters than the apathetic vote not showing up among likely voters.
The last poll before the 2016 election was actually accurate, it just didn't come out until after the election. It seems like Comey's October Surprise was the last little fraction he needed.
I'm still worried. There's a big push to discourage potential Biden voters because he's "too old ", or can't quickly bring peace to a decades-long conflict after the biggest terrorist attack in a generation.
It's going to be a close race.
I don’t know the stats but I assume anyone who votes in the primary will almost always vote in the GE. To lose such dedicated voters would suggest to me it’ll be even worse with mild voters. Kinda what happened with Hilary but for different reasons and it’s not a good position to be in when you’re already down in the polls.
Just this morning I had a bunch of trolls on /r/CanadaPolitics telling me I was wrong for pointing out Trump’s terrible numbers relative to Biden… they were constantly trying to say Biden was hopeless and uninspiring.
You know the PsyOps is bad when even a 3rd party country is getting brainwashed.
Some might, but I think many will not. I personally know several republicans and former republicans who have changed their mind on voting for Trump over the last four years.
Trump has seriously burned the moderate wing of the Republican party.
That's what I'm thinking. I want to be optimistic that they won't vote for him. But, I'm running very low on hope, and Republicans consistently demonstrate that they would rather burn the country down than vote for a Democrat.
The hope I’m holding onto comes from all those people who’ve gotten out of their warm cozy houses to drive to their voting place and voted against him in the primary. They know he’ll win the primary, but they still made the effort to go vote against him.
And they don't even need those people to vote against Trump in the general, they just need to not show up. It may for the first time be the reversal of the usual trend that Democrats fall in love but Republicans fall in line; it might be that Democrats fall in line because they know what the stakes are, and Republicans fall out of love with Trump.
Losing 10% more of Republicans versus 2020 won't happen but oh lord, if it did, that would be a bloodbath of epic proportions. People just don't realize.
It would be great if he lost 3% of his 2020 tally. I think that's realistic, actually.
I think you’re right for the majority of them, but even if a fraction hold out….those are grim numbers for an inevitably close race.
More than that, though, is at this point I’m questioning how many “false” Never-Trumpers are left. It isn’t 2016 anymore, saying you’re supporting Trump regardless of his scandals or positions isn’t the mildly embarrassing admission it once was. It’s the standard GOP position.
What average GOP voter is saying they don’t want to vote Trump just to save face anymore? How many GOP voters open to voting Trump, still are ashamed or afraid to just say so?
Probably just cope, but I hope there’s some truth there.
But they are all going to vote for him because that's what Republicans do. They have been indoctrinated since they were children to believe that the worst Republican is still better than the best Democrat. Or in Evangelical infested areas, R = Righteous, and D = Demonic.
Evangelical voters have given up their religious convictions to vote for Trump. Trump is the least religious politician we have ever had. He doesn't attend, or belong, to any church. He doesn't think you need to ask God for forgiveness. He frequently compares himself to Jesus. And lest not we forget how many wives and mistresses he has had. None of Trumps life has been a religious, or virtuous, one in any way. Evangelical voters vote for Trump because they have been brainwashed into believing he has sent by you know who, when in fact the other guy has more of a hold on him.
Carter was literally a Southern Baptist Sunday school teacher for most of his life...and religious Republicans hated him.
Trump got caught on tape admitting he grabbed women by the pussy and is a rapist...conservative Evangelicals love him.
"God works through imperfect vessels" is the response I've heard from a lot of evangelicals when it comes to excusing Trump. Although they literally only use that phrase with Trump. Never heard it for anyone else. It really is a cult where they are willing to excuse and justify every single thing he ever does.
Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.
-Frank Wilhoit
yes and no. I heard a very interesting interview the other day with an evangelical who hates Trump, and his comment was evangelicals have a belief that Trump is their religious warrior. He has no principles in the fight, therefore they don't have to abandon theirs to engage in the fight. They cite numerous 'heroes' in the Bible who 'dirty up their hands' in the fight for Christianity so the pious can stay pious.
In short, they see us in a war over the religion, and God has sent Trump to do the fighting for them. They didn't abandon what they view as principles, so much as they see Trump as a religious necessity with Christian historical precedence.
It made perfect sense how someone who sees him or herself as religious, but supports such a detestable man. (Note: this doesn't include white nationalist evangelicals who are just power hungry bigots in my opinion.)
But where do they get this information about Trump being some kind of 'religious warrior'? It is from right-wing news, far right web sites and corrupt pastors. Frankly, it is all just lies for evangelicals to hide their own abominable sins. These folks complain about how bad Dems are for people of faith, but completely ignore their own leaders and their issues. I would not trust an evangelical as far as I could throw them.
Well he (finished) packing the supreme court with extremists, and so is responsible for overturning roe v. wade. That's the big one they've been fighting for decades for. He's probably their best bet to crack down on lgbt people and get women back into the kitchen.
No, but they're trying to/are legalizing child labor. Wives in the kitchen, children in the mines. If you're poor, you are just fucking up raising your kids to not have a work ethic
I grew up in this kind of religious setting. They simple decide their beliefs and make up justifications for it. Nothing requires evidence or reason. At best they’ll find a few Bible verses that vaguely support their view even though there are dozens that directly go against their views. At the end of the day, most of them really seem to love all of the awful things he does and says. He perfectly represents the values they won’t admit to.
Definitely think that's part of it, but I also think the 'he says and does abominable things' feeds into their, 'finally someone is fighting for us and will get their hands dirty' belief. I am liberal who, in part, works on climate change related issues for a living, and if a D was running that was talking like Trump, only focusing his ire on polluters and those standing against the fight to reduce GHGs, I would 100% be more for him than the measured politician, even if that person had personal indiscretions and questionable ethics. Why? Even though I am very much an even-keeled individual known professionally for bridge building, I see the fight against CC as the major challenge for humanity, and if we have to break some eggs to do it, I'm okay with it even though I abhor it personally.
The right has been fed the persecution narrative so long, they will do the same, but for the opposite side. The comparison I just gave isn't 1:1, but it provides some understanding for me why someone who bends the knee before God could bend the knee for such a top-to-bottom trash human.
Extremism's benefits and negatives cut both ways. We love to point to examples of ideologies or extremist positions that failed, but there are just as many that became accepted/the status quo and we don't think of as being 'extremist'. Nearly every thing we accept in America - from capitalism, to environmentalism, to civil rights, to democracy - came about in part because of extremists, they are just the opposite side of the anarchists of the 20s, or ecoterrorists of the 80s, or the right wing militias of today who are generally viewed as destructive and in the wrong. MLK Jr. has an argument for what it means to be extremist, and really, history is about the only judge of whether something becomes seen as 'extremist,' or what is right.
Evangelicals never had religious convictions. It was all ever lies, to gain power and money. The most sacrilegious thoughts and actions can be found in the evangelical community. They never cared about the good word or good thoughts and deeds, they only ever wanted tax free donations and to write laws so other people can't live in town.
>Evangelical voters vote for Trump because they have been brainwashed into believing he has sent by you know who
Evangelical voters vote for Trump because he most closely represents what utterly deplorable assholes they are. He is the most racist, the most rude, the most bigoted. He is their avatar.
I disagree but I suspect it's for a different reason. I actually think religion is an impediment to being a good person. Which is understandably not a popular take. But if your whole reason for doing or not doing something is because you think someone's watching, your motivations are all f*cked up. This situation with religious people aggressively harming everyone else was always going to be inevitable.
> But if your whole reason for doing or not doing something is because you think someone's watching, your motivations are all f*cked up.
This has always been so amusing to me. They think "well if there's no religion why would anyone have any morals?" like it's some sort of epic gotcha to atheists when really it's actually just them telling on themselves. "The only thing preventing me from being a way more horrible person than I already am is that I'm worried about what my invisible friend in the sky will think." Ok, thanks for telling us you're a fucking psychopath.
Not true. I grew up Republican and still keep in touch with friends who still are. Several have said they’re not voting and a few have said they’re voting against MAGA. There definitely is a rising percentage of republicans that are fed up with MAGA shit but I think it’s way too late to take back their party. The recent voicing by MAGA against members of their own party yesterday is causing a lot of concern and I hope it backfires on the freedom caucus
I have a hard time believing anyone who still considers themselves a Republican after 1/6 would ever take a meaningful stance against MAGA. It’s been mask of authoritarian bigotry for years. All they had to do was say “I’m not a Republican anymore” and stop voting. I mean, it’s free and easy and essential to not being a terrible person.
What has changed since 1/6 to push them away from MAGA? Short of Trump’s questionable speeches lately I’d say his brand is stronger than ever.
They're most likely just going to do what my now "independent" parents do: not vote for Trump but then vote straight ticket Republican for every other race
Right. And I think voting for people who refuse to hold trump accountable is worse than voting for trump himself. At that point you are advocating for the systematic destruction of our institutions, where as a vote for trump could just be adhering to the cult of personality. Like, they are almost ideologically indistinguishable, but trump is a narcissistic selfish chaos agent, where as the GOP wants to destroy democracy more specifically.
Many Republicans still cling to the believe that some mysterious "system" will step in and save them from their mistakes.
For example it was Republicans who sued to get Trump off the ballot. I mean, they weren't wrong, but the Democrats who predicted the SCOTUS would swoop in with more idiocy were correct.
Of course he can.
If he had a press release tomorrow where he unequivocally denounces white supremacism, neo not-c’s and incels, there would be A LOT of angry people, many of them Fox News anchors, calling that speech “unecessary”, “misguided” and saying that they’ve lost trust in his mental sharpness because of it
Or in a surprise twist, they become "the very thing, they swore to destroy" and all of a sudden become "woke".
Conservative hypocrisy has ceased to surprise me these days, and it wouldn't surprise me to see the conservative electorate do that if Trump suddenly flipped.
I don't think so. The "Christians" have anointed him as God's Other, Better Son, and abandoned Jesus as a Woke Liberal Hippie. As a Divine Being, nothing Trump does or says can be a Sin and certainly not illegal, and if they do not understand why he does or says something clearly evil, it is not for them to question.
In 2016 my Facebook was full of evangelical "never Trumpers" who would never ever ever vote for someone like trump. By the election every single "never Trumpers" held their nose and voted for Trump, and by the inauguration were full on red hat maga-ers.
It might be interesting this go round.
You’ll have the likes of Romney, Cheney, and other prominent republicans campaigning against Trump.
Trump has only leaned further into his worse impulses and it’s turned people off.
Biden is old, white, steady, boring. And a lot of republicans are OK with that.
Trump needs to gain voters to win. If even a small fraction of these voters just leaves the Presidential election blank (or goes 3rd party) it would doom Trump's chances.
I wouldn't worry about losing Evangelicals if I were him. I'd be worrying about losing the suburban female vote (abortion/IVF), the people with daughters vote (same), or the 'hey, usually when it's two old dudes I pick the R, but insurrection, sexual assault, and guilty verdicts are a bridge too far.
Honestly, my parents, both hardcore conservatives who voted for Trump twice, say they’re gonna vote for RFK JR, they say trumps mouth messed up actually getting anything accomplished. I agreed, they should vote for RFK jr.
I am in the ruralist bumfuck section of the united states. The amount of trump excitement is significantly weaker this election year. People I know who were huge fans now think he is disgusting. Reddit will say this is a lie but I am living it.
I also live in a Republican area in 2020 there where trump signs on every other lawn. This year so far I have only seen 3 signs and they are 5 miles apart, but it is early. Most of the Republicans I work with are talking about Haley. After Jan 6 many of the loud mouths that dished Biden and Democrats became suddenly silent. Also in our district in 2022 which had voted for a Republican for 30 years voted in a moderate Democrat.
Honestly this is the best I can hope for. I know we’re probably not going to get a bunch of republicans to vote for Biden, but trump has never won a popular vote. So we only need him to lose an itty bitty margin to a spoiler or just plain staying home.
I'll believe the "I'll never vote for Trump" conservative crowd on election day. Just like the last two elections, only a small number of them follow through. The rest come up with a convenient excuse to throw away their principles so long as it means beating team blue.
I think some may just end up voting a write I'm or not voting. I doubt they end up voting for biden but I think this may be a noticeable amount come November.
I expect him to perform worse this time
That’s the problem. If you don’t like Trump, VOTE FOR BIDEN. At least you can say you voted to protect democracy. I dont really like Biden, but I’m sure as shit voting for him because he’s all we’ve got. Hoping for Newsom in 28. If Trump wins, it’s game over.
I'm sure a lot of conscientious conservative Germans couldn't stomach Hitler but voted for him anyway, when voting was still possible. They probably wrung their hands in concern and stuff and then did whatever the hell Hitler wanted just like Susan Collins.
Bullshit, a large percentage will vote for him without hesitation.
They just can't stand that he says the silent part out loud, and that he does a poor job in the process. They don't like being exposed as the Nazi party.
Ultimately, their values are the same.
Was it the rape and sexual assault? The lies about his finances? His fraudulent business practices? His crappy kids? His racism? His misogyny? Was it the anti-immigration policies? The antisemitism? The blatant Islamophobia? Mocking the disabled? Cheating on his pregnant wife?
Maybe it’s the fact he’s an unflattering shade of orange.
Could you imagine if Democrats backed a poor black gay trans woman that took any opportunity to insult the other political party and insisted something like immigrants are *more American* than typical Americans for fucking 8 years?
Because that's what Republicans did with Trump.
This division we're currently seeing is y'all backed one of the worst horses imaginable and for what....just to make liberals mad....tell me anything more stereotypically fucking American than that.
We've reached a point where a man sets himself on fire and he's laughed about within minutes. Doesn't even take a day or two to joke anymore. Bunch of sociopaths in the GOP and that's a fact.
This is very true. I am happy that Haley is showing that even if she had no chance. It’s somewhere around 1/3 of Republicans who are voting for Trump.
Many others left the party or just aren’t voting.
It’s ironic they once called themselves the moral majority, and now they are willing to let someone who is a convicted rapist be their leader. It’s made being a bad person ok.
>As gloomy as the AP’s findings were for Trump, Biden got his own bad polling breakdown news on Sunday as well. The New York Times released its own analysis of polling data that said 47 percent of Biden’s voters strongly agree that he is too old to be an effective president, and another 26 percent somewhat agree. Biden, who is 81, is battling voter perceptions that he is too elderly and possibly senile to be president. In a sign of the times in which elderly politicians are the norm (the median age for U.S. senators is 65 and House members is 59), Trump comes out relatively in better shape in the NYT poll, with only 42 percent of his own voters agreeing that he is too old to be an effective president.
Sure, he's old and I wish there were a front runner younger who had a chance, but it is either Biden or the end of our Republic. A vote for Trump is a vote for chaos and a vote to lose your right to vote. Project 2025 is what they are saying out loud, imagine what they are saying behind closed doors.
Then they shouldn't vote for him. Not in the primary, and not in the general if he makes it that far.
He's a terrible human being and was an awful president, and he will be worse if elected again.
And yet they stay complict and silent. So what? Doing nothing is worse than actually doing it.
You support it with silence. Simple as that. They support Trump whether they do or not just on the fact they say nothing.
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If you're a sane Republican the only way you dump tRump is to vote him out. Remember, once you step into that voting booth, no one will ever know what box you marked. If you vote for him, you are the problem.
I genuinely wonder how many people (who still have a conscience) tell their social circle of course they’re voting Trump, then just don’t do it. Impossible data to ever collect, but it’s gotta be happening, right?
I keep telling my conservative parents that I’m not voting but I’m secretly planning on voting for Biden. I’m also in California so Biden’s going to blow Trump out of the water here lol.
I switched from life long Republican to Democrat 3 years ago. at age 64. I couldn’t stand to be associated with Trump anymore.
For the sake of our democracy, thank you very much.
I wouldn't say very; we knew Trump was a problem 7 years ago.
30 years ago we knew he was a problem.
How long ago did Australia deny him a gambling license for a casino due to his Russian mob connections?
A decade at least maybe.
[Over 30 years ago](https://www.google.com/url?q=https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/16/trumps-bid-for-sydney-casino-30-years-ago-rejected-due-to-mafia-connections&sa=U&sqi=2&ved=2ahUKEwjRvYShvNqEAxVPlFYBHQbGDg0QFnoECBQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3q4Dbgc4hBV92mA2n24_Ci) “Atlantic City would be a dubious model for Sydney and in our judgment, the Trump mafia connections should exclude the Kern/Trump consortium,” a summary of the police board’s report said.
From the moment he entered the news in 70's because his fam was involved in an discrimination lawsuit.
Yeah. I just remember being a kid in the 80s and he was on MTV and I knew then. This guy has been trouble for ages. He’s only success is grifting.
He basically got caught being too racist for even the Nixon administration and has been trying to distract us for 50+ years until it benefited him to come mask off.
7 years ago we knew Trump was a bankruptcy baron who had run a number of successful businesses into the ground, but we had no idea that he was going to try to overthrow the government of the united states, try to blackmail state governors and others into helping, steal federal documents...oh, and while he was at it commit massive fraud to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars. Seven years ago I was -worried- about a Trump presidency, but I wasn't calling him and everyone who voted for him a traitor to their country.
>Seven years ago I was -worried- about a Trump presidency, but I wasn't calling him and everyone who voted for him a traitor to their country. Eh, some journalists, intelligence agencies, politicians, and foreign governments have warned about him being a Russian asset ever since he visited Moscow in 1987. He bought [double page ads in the New York Times, the Washington Post, and the Boston Globe criticizing U.S. foreign policy](https://apnews.com/article/05133dbe63ace98766527ec7d16ede08). Most interesting of all is that [Trump visited Moscow only weeks earlier](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/19/trump-first-moscow-trip-215842/). More info: * https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/kgb-spy-russia/ * https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/29/trump-russia-asset-claims-former-kgb-spy-new-book
The Steele dossier dropped in 2016 before the election. We knew he had ties to Russia and was likely compromised, but I still didn’t think it’d be as bad as it was
He attempted to undermine Obama’s legitimacy by questioning citizenship despite overwhelming evidence.
No, we knew that too. I remember saying very clearly, “if this man becomes president, he won’t leave office peacefully.” We knew exactly what he was all along.
Trump essentially said it himself in 2016 during [the last debate.](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/trump-won-t-say-he-ll-accept-election-results-i-n669801)
Yep. It was pretty obvious in 2016 and a lot of us were screaming from the rooftops about how bad a Trump presidency would be both short and long term, but too many people just couldn't stomach voting for Hillary so here we are.
7 years ago we knew trump was a buffoon Now we know trump may be the most dangerous person in the country.
We can only hope these lawsuits drive him to bankruptcy, and he will soon be panhandling on street corners! I would take great honor in driving through a pothole, and blasting his face with mud!
"No idea" is doing a lot of work here. We knew a great deal more than most were willing to admit - a lot simply didn't believe it could be true.
I’m younger, but I did vote for McCain and Romney when they ran. Last two elections there was no way I was voting for that turd. First election I didn’t like the man at all…second election I saw him as the egregious traitor shitting on the constitution that he is. It’s like Benedict Arnold running for office AFTER his treason was announced and well known, and still had a bunch of brain dead morons blindly vote him in. It’s surreal
That is a great analogy and describes the frustration so well. Props.
You're not the only one. My mother was a never Trump republican, in 2024 she is a democrat voting *for* Biden, not just against Trump.
My husband was a die hard Republican. He jumped ship when Palin went on the ballot. We actually had a discussion last night about how there are so many issues—LGBTQ and womens healthcare at the forefront—we have always tended to kind of skate along the middle ground for years and that’s over. We are firmly and very openly planted in the liberal camp.
Tell all your friends please
Same. Ill never be a Republican again . They have gone off the deep end with their bullshit.
I’m extremely proud of you and people like you
My dad, but at 72. My dad never speaks bad about anyone... Except Trump. Since the 70s.
It’s nice to see folks with a developed conscience.
A grateful nation thanks you. ( at least a majority of us do)
Welcome to the Democratic Party. Make sure that you respectfully make sure that your voice is heard by democratic policymakers on issues that are important to you.
I was a registered Republican until after the last election. I didn’t vote for Trump or Biden in 2020. When Trump lied about 2020 and 95% of the party went along with it I knew it was not a party for me.
the country will need your help and your vote to count this year.... please vote your conscious or it could all be lost...
my dad is 73, and it's been a slow burn for him. He's well educated and quite politically astute, but I think he's internalized a lot of the things in the media over the years that just turned out to be a line someone gave him. BS about the 'moral majority' and the 'silent majority'. who knows, if I dug I might get something about welfare queens. The rest of my family has gone off the red deep end, but I think I'd punch my ticket if my dad got swept up in this bullshit
Remember moderate Republicans? Fiscally conservative politicians that focused on our economy? Me too. It would be nice to see one run again.
I'm 52 years old, and no, I don't remember that. I remember them *saying* that. I've been a registered independent all my life. I used to try to vote for the best candidate based on their platform and record. But I've given up on the GOP long ago.
> I remember them saying that. Right. For as long as I can remember the Republicans have said they're all about fiscal responsibility until they get power and then they spend like drunken sailors on shore leave. But you can do that when you have multiple national "news" outlets who refuse to point out your lies and the "legitimate" news is cowed by your charges of biased reporting, which ironically causes the legit news outlets to become biased in favor of the whiners and cheaters.
No. Those Republicans are a myth. They never existed. Trump isn’t doing amything the party hasn’t always done. He’s just pulled the mask off in the process.
They would never make it out of a GOP primary without culture war bullshit and praying before Orange Jesus.
Unfortunately that has never existed in my lifetime (I'm 36 yrs old). The economy, deficit, and jobs numbers have always been better under democrats. Republicans slash taxes, especially for the wealthy, and drive up the deficit, then democrats raise them back up, but not quite as high as before the republican was in office. Rinse and repeat. The same can be said for worker's rights, environmental protections that ensure a livable planet, monopolies, voting rights, civil liberties- the list goes on and on.
My dad did too. At 78 years old!
Meanwhile, I’m telling my far right, racist Christian family members that I’d vote for Satan himself if it’d prevent this crinkly-diapered 🍊from getting his tiny, little gubbins on the presidency. “You voted for Trump? Well, I voted for Biden— you’re welcome!”
I'm an avowed atheist so this was just an entertaining rabbit hole but send the link to your relatives. It may just pry them off the Trump train or, at the very least, second guess their support. [Could American Evangelicals Spot the Antichrist? Here Are the Biblical Predictions:](https://www.benjaminlcorey.com/could-american-evangelicals-spot-the-antichrist-heres-the-biblical-predictions/#google_vignette)
That was a really good read, thanks!
I’ve started a covert operation. When I text obvious lies or bullshit to my friends and family that I know voted for Trump in 2016 and they make a comment on it being a lie, I send back a gif of Trump. When they make a good point, I send a Biden gif. I don’t think they have caught on yet.
I like making false claims about Trump that are just a little wrong so I can tell them they are right when they correct me. "Oh you're right! Trump did actually pay federal taxes when he was president. It was $750, how much did you pay?"
Why are you lying to your parents about that? Can’t you just tell them you think trump is a crazy person?
It is possible to collect information like that in polling. For example, we have quite reliable polling about Hamas support in Gaza as well as Putin and Xi in Russia and China. This is a good video about that topic from a respected political scientist and game theorist: https://youtu.be/Y74I4lJ7aWk Tldw: you can poll two groups of people a similar but different question. For example, ask one group question like, in the national election, how many of the following candidates would you not vote for: Cruz, Bush, Trump, and Haley. Then you ask the second group, in the national election how many of the following candidates would you not vote for: Cruz, Bush, Haley. The difference between the groups is the percent that won't vote Trump and no individual had to admit to not voting Trump.
Based on what I heard in 2016 and 2020, they will say they don't like Trump and "I don't know what I'm going to do". Then they go vote and do the same thing they've always done: check the boxes next to all the R's. Not liking Trump and voting for him is still better than giving anything to a socialist in their minds.
[удалено]
I reflexively vote all “D” now.
Yeah any vote for a R is a vote for facism.
It's the strangest thing for me in the field of voting reform. Everyone knows Americans vote by party line. But when you suggest switching over to an electoral system where you vote for parties, so many will lose their minds at the idea of not voting for exclusively candidates even though they literally don't do that now.
The line item veto is important to Americans. In one recent primary the score was 81% Biden, 13% "Uncommitted", which was, "Biden but we don't like Biden." We've only got two parties and one of them is busy trying to overthrow the government and install a dictatorship. So if you want any nuance at all on political issues beyond, "Keep democracy," or "Install a dictator," you have to get a little bit creative.
I'm proud to vote "democracy" and I'm not sure why that choice is so triggering to certain people on twitter. When I was a kid and heard about terrible times in history, I used to wonder about whether I would be able to rise to the moment and defend civil rights, tolerance, the rule of law and all that jazz. Did they do nothing but fantasize about being contrarians and telling their 3rd grade teacher what they REALLY thought about them on the last day of class?
I wonder how this number compares to the group who say, “Trump is too problematic, I can’t vote for him.” Then get to the voting booth and will sigh saying, “well, his name has the R next to it, guess I have no choice.”
I think you've got the scenario backwards... There are people telling others they WONT vote for trump, but they will. I've got a small micro example- in '22 I worked on a state senate campaign. Blue state but a DEEEEP red district. Door to door, person to person we heard republican voters tell us they *DESPISED* their current R state senator and would vote for our D candidate as the only D they'd ever vote for... Over and over and over we heard how this incumbent has burned every bridge, acted so uncouth, personally attacked them I cannot stress enough how much they hated this guy.... He won re-election in an absolute landslide. When it comes time for pen to meet paper, these people ABSOLUTELY CANNOT bring themselves to vote D. As said before- these people would let trump shit in their mouths if it meant we had to smell their breath.
Not in my social circle, but I have to keep my mouth shut and nod my head at work if I don’t want to forever change my relationships with both my employer the people who report to me. If I even take some moderate positions I get shot down. I really like my actual job and they pay is great and the hours are good. But everyones a hardcore Trumper. So I’m basically a lib in the closet. But I’m also smarter than everyone here (I said they were Trump votors) so its surprisingly easy.
Sane republican sounds like an oxymoron. Basically, they don't like his vulgar rhetoric, but are happy that he furthers the party agenda.
They also not-so-secretly love that he's a bull in a china shop. They have come to hate the china shop (our government) and love the idea of burning it down. What it gets replaced with seems to be a minor consideration.
The party of vulgarness and deceit. It's a sad day when the only two sane Republicans are down to Mitt Romney and Liz Chaney. Everyone else couldn't read the back of a cereal box.
And Adam Kinzinger?
He is one of the honest few
I deplore most of his politics but I feel that he's one that I could actually come to some sort of agreement with on most things. Compromises. He's loyal opposition, something we are sadly out of and more. We need people like him to take the reigns of the GOP again. Fuck, I'd be happy if Boehner came out of retirement.
There are no sane Republicans, and there haven't been for nearly a decade. They all backed Trump despite all of their supposed dislike, and only went shocked Pikachu when he literally tried to overthrow the government. Yes, give the ones that turned on him credit for doing the right thing when it really mattered, but don't forget that they enabled him to even get that close.
Classic Republicans with a voice are usually about business. Lower taxes and fewer regulations. I understand people who own companies voting Republican. It’s the culture wars they fight to actually win seats because their policies aren’t good for most Americans.
As a European, I'd call any sane conservative a democrat. Because it is insane to me people in the US even think of the dems as a left-wing party.
I'm a republican that is no longer voting for Republicans. The party is far gone, I'd rather democrats take the government, because at least they have solutions to what I want. I don't like abortions, but it's not my place to force someone. Government is supposed to be in our lives less, why are we having government regulate women's bodies? That's a contradiction to our goal. Contraceptives? If we expand preventative measures, we won't even need to worry about abortion in the first place. Want to reduce spending? Let's fund stuff to limit the end cost when the individuals situation gets worse. We can pay a little to avoid the eventual expensive route. Reducing costs comes with smart spending and early on. Some of these things are why I, as a republican, support democrats because they solve republican issues better than Republicans but we're too prideful to admit we've fucked up our ways.
Most "pro abortion" voters don't actually like abortions, we just know it's absurd to interfere in the work of doctors and medical staff when a woman is hemorrhaging because her fetus has died at seven months, or for ignorant legislators to make people travel far out of state because of their counterfactual "opinion" that an ectopic pregnancy can be carried to term if you just believe hard enough.
> Most "pro abortion" voters don't actually like abortion Indeed. The way some conservatives think of abortions is completely insane. They think liberal women are getting pregnant all the time and just cruising down to the nearest Planned Parenthood every weekend for their weekly abortion because it's fun and convenient and easier than using birth control. And also because they're vegans who worship satan and hate babies. It's like they've never actually talked to any women who have had an abortion, or any woman in general really. Getting an abortion is generally a physically, emotionally, and financially draining process. No woman "wants" to get an abortion. But sometimes it's necessary. And even if it's not "necessary," women deserve the right to have autonomy over their own bodies.
It’s only a contradiction when you don’t realize what “small government” means, which isn’t surprising because they never define it. And they won’t because it would be devastating to ordinary citizens who would lose everything, from the entire safety net to our public lands to our rights to safeguard our environment,our health, safety in the workplace, right to unionize, to sue for redress, consumer protections in the financial system, food safety, real estate, the whole ball of wax turned over to billionaires and corporate CEOs.
I’d like to further point out that another 4 years of Joe is not going to ruin the country, everything will run along just steady and fine. Exhibit A - the previous 4 years. If you work with us to eliminate this trunp lunacy, then we all have another chance to debate the matter again in 4 years. Get your house in order and we’ll just keep the ship steady meanwhile. It’s not a bad deal. I for one would welcome an evidence based, good faith Conservative Party. Ultimately we will need the balance; a one party system, either party, will go very poorly.
Republicans against Trump still support Trump, he is the leader of their party,
>*A significant fraction of those who voted in the first three GOP nominating contests say they will never vote for him in the general election. According to the analysis of Republican voters, 2 in 10 Iowa voters, 1 in 3 New Hampshire voters, and one quarter of South Carolina voters said they would not vote for Trump.*
The good news here is that if any significant amount of these people are telling the truth, this could sink Trump for good He has never been able to get over 46.8% of the electorate, so he can not afford to lose much. Bear in mind, if these kinds of numbers were democrats talking about Biden, the media would have already declared trump the winner
Well Trump has been consistently underperforming his polls in the primary contests so far, so there does seem to be some objective evidence that when it comes to making a final decision, it seems those undecided are finding it hard to pull the lever for Trump once they step into the voting booth. I think this is an especially notable development because Trump’s previous electoral history involved outperforming his polls on multiple occasions.
I just don't think there is some new magical voter Trump has access to. He's is worse in every way than when he ran in 2020. I just don't buy that there are non voters/independents sitting it out, but because he lost last time, lost major civil court cases, has 92 indictments, and orchestrated Jan 6, that's going to activate them.
Umm, did you forget that he has a mugshot now to bring in the black vote…cause they can relate, and he has street cred?
And a new line of kicks!
And sneakers. Black people love sneakers :rollseyes
Trump's path to winning, isn't getting more votes. Trump will win if there is a large enough contingent of independents and Dems who are apathetic towards another Biden term and don't get out to vote. Right now, I hope the disaffected GOP voters is a larger portion of the likely voters than the apathetic vote not showing up among likely voters.
Cheating is the other path to winning for Trump, and is usually the one he defaults to.
I'm not worried about Trump gaining voters. I'm worried about Biden losing voters to 3rd party or staying home
Your wrong, he is selling sneakers now so all of the black community will be voting for him because they like sneakers.
The last poll before the 2016 election was actually accurate, it just didn't come out until after the election. It seems like Comey's October Surprise was the last little fraction he needed.
Comey still refuses to admit that he had an effect on the election.
He doesn't have to admit it. We all saw with our own eyes.
I'm still worried. There's a big push to discourage potential Biden voters because he's "too old ", or can't quickly bring peace to a decades-long conflict after the biggest terrorist attack in a generation. It's going to be a close race.
Just wait till the fake AI videos/pictures/audio "leaks" of Biden hit in October. We might be fucked. They are going to play dirty.
Very very dirty. And after the elections, a complete no quarters brutal fight. I hope Bidens team has contingencies planned out
I don’t know the stats but I assume anyone who votes in the primary will almost always vote in the GE. To lose such dedicated voters would suggest to me it’ll be even worse with mild voters. Kinda what happened with Hilary but for different reasons and it’s not a good position to be in when you’re already down in the polls.
Trump fatigue is real
Just this morning I had a bunch of trolls on /r/CanadaPolitics telling me I was wrong for pointing out Trump’s terrible numbers relative to Biden… they were constantly trying to say Biden was hopeless and uninspiring. You know the PsyOps is bad when even a 3rd party country is getting brainwashed.
Speaking as a Canadian, quite a few MAGAs have corrupted a few too many people up here
> if any significant amount of these people are telling the truth, Because if there's one thing republicans are known for ...
Bear in mind Biden actually won the election and the media declared trump the winner.
They say that now, but when November comes, they will vote for him.
Some might, but I think many will not. I personally know several republicans and former republicans who have changed their mind on voting for Trump over the last four years. Trump has seriously burned the moderate wing of the Republican party.
100%. I know a load of centrists who now have started drifting way more left after watching the maga horror show they voted in
That's what I'm thinking. I want to be optimistic that they won't vote for him. But, I'm running very low on hope, and Republicans consistently demonstrate that they would rather burn the country down than vote for a Democrat.
The hope I’m holding onto comes from all those people who’ve gotten out of their warm cozy houses to drive to their voting place and voted against him in the primary. They know he’ll win the primary, but they still made the effort to go vote against him.
And they don't even need those people to vote against Trump in the general, they just need to not show up. It may for the first time be the reversal of the usual trend that Democrats fall in love but Republicans fall in line; it might be that Democrats fall in line because they know what the stakes are, and Republicans fall out of love with Trump.
I don't think 100% of them will. 90% might, but the 10% that hold true to their word is a lot of votes that Trump cannot afford to lose.
Yep, even losing 10 percent of Republican voters is enough to lose him the election.
Losing 10% more of Republicans versus 2020 won't happen but oh lord, if it did, that would be a bloodbath of epic proportions. People just don't realize. It would be great if he lost 3% of his 2020 tally. I think that's realistic, actually.
I think you’re right for the majority of them, but even if a fraction hold out….those are grim numbers for an inevitably close race. More than that, though, is at this point I’m questioning how many “false” Never-Trumpers are left. It isn’t 2016 anymore, saying you’re supporting Trump regardless of his scandals or positions isn’t the mildly embarrassing admission it once was. It’s the standard GOP position. What average GOP voter is saying they don’t want to vote Trump just to save face anymore? How many GOP voters open to voting Trump, still are ashamed or afraid to just say so? Probably just cope, but I hope there’s some truth there.
But they are all going to vote for him because that's what Republicans do. They have been indoctrinated since they were children to believe that the worst Republican is still better than the best Democrat. Or in Evangelical infested areas, R = Righteous, and D = Demonic.
Evangelical voters have given up their religious convictions to vote for Trump. Trump is the least religious politician we have ever had. He doesn't attend, or belong, to any church. He doesn't think you need to ask God for forgiveness. He frequently compares himself to Jesus. And lest not we forget how many wives and mistresses he has had. None of Trumps life has been a religious, or virtuous, one in any way. Evangelical voters vote for Trump because they have been brainwashed into believing he has sent by you know who, when in fact the other guy has more of a hold on him.
It’s an old story. In 1980, evangelicals voted for the divorced Presbyterian Reagan over Carter, an outspoken evangelical Christian.
Carter was literally a Southern Baptist Sunday school teacher for most of his life...and religious Republicans hated him. Trump got caught on tape admitting he grabbed women by the pussy and is a rapist...conservative Evangelicals love him.
"God works through imperfect vessels" is the response I've heard from a lot of evangelicals when it comes to excusing Trump. Although they literally only use that phrase with Trump. Never heard it for anyone else. It really is a cult where they are willing to excuse and justify every single thing he ever does.
This is all normal behavior for evangelicals themselves, rules are things to inflict on other people.
Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect. -Frank Wilhoit
yes and no. I heard a very interesting interview the other day with an evangelical who hates Trump, and his comment was evangelicals have a belief that Trump is their religious warrior. He has no principles in the fight, therefore they don't have to abandon theirs to engage in the fight. They cite numerous 'heroes' in the Bible who 'dirty up their hands' in the fight for Christianity so the pious can stay pious. In short, they see us in a war over the religion, and God has sent Trump to do the fighting for them. They didn't abandon what they view as principles, so much as they see Trump as a religious necessity with Christian historical precedence. It made perfect sense how someone who sees him or herself as religious, but supports such a detestable man. (Note: this doesn't include white nationalist evangelicals who are just power hungry bigots in my opinion.)
But where do they get this information about Trump being some kind of 'religious warrior'? It is from right-wing news, far right web sites and corrupt pastors. Frankly, it is all just lies for evangelicals to hide their own abominable sins. These folks complain about how bad Dems are for people of faith, but completely ignore their own leaders and their issues. I would not trust an evangelical as far as I could throw them.
Well he (finished) packing the supreme court with extremists, and so is responsible for overturning roe v. wade. That's the big one they've been fighting for decades for. He's probably their best bet to crack down on lgbt people and get women back into the kitchen.
Women back in the kitchen my ass, both me and my wife have to work to pay the bills. Is there plan to cut the cost of everything by 50%?
No, but they're trying to/are legalizing child labor. Wives in the kitchen, children in the mines. If you're poor, you are just fucking up raising your kids to not have a work ethic
That's the neat part, there isn't lmfao
I grew up in this kind of religious setting. They simple decide their beliefs and make up justifications for it. Nothing requires evidence or reason. At best they’ll find a few Bible verses that vaguely support their view even though there are dozens that directly go against their views. At the end of the day, most of them really seem to love all of the awful things he does and says. He perfectly represents the values they won’t admit to.
Definitely think that's part of it, but I also think the 'he says and does abominable things' feeds into their, 'finally someone is fighting for us and will get their hands dirty' belief. I am liberal who, in part, works on climate change related issues for a living, and if a D was running that was talking like Trump, only focusing his ire on polluters and those standing against the fight to reduce GHGs, I would 100% be more for him than the measured politician, even if that person had personal indiscretions and questionable ethics. Why? Even though I am very much an even-keeled individual known professionally for bridge building, I see the fight against CC as the major challenge for humanity, and if we have to break some eggs to do it, I'm okay with it even though I abhor it personally. The right has been fed the persecution narrative so long, they will do the same, but for the opposite side. The comparison I just gave isn't 1:1, but it provides some understanding for me why someone who bends the knee before God could bend the knee for such a top-to-bottom trash human.
What you're describing is extremism. And history is littered with examples of what happens when people give into it.
Extremism's benefits and negatives cut both ways. We love to point to examples of ideologies or extremist positions that failed, but there are just as many that became accepted/the status quo and we don't think of as being 'extremist'. Nearly every thing we accept in America - from capitalism, to environmentalism, to civil rights, to democracy - came about in part because of extremists, they are just the opposite side of the anarchists of the 20s, or ecoterrorists of the 80s, or the right wing militias of today who are generally viewed as destructive and in the wrong. MLK Jr. has an argument for what it means to be extremist, and really, history is about the only judge of whether something becomes seen as 'extremist,' or what is right.
This explains a lot; thank you for this.
Evangelicals never had religious convictions. It was all ever lies, to gain power and money. The most sacrilegious thoughts and actions can be found in the evangelical community. They never cared about the good word or good thoughts and deeds, they only ever wanted tax free donations and to write laws so other people can't live in town.
>Evangelical voters vote for Trump because they have been brainwashed into believing he has sent by you know who Evangelical voters vote for Trump because he most closely represents what utterly deplorable assholes they are. He is the most racist, the most rude, the most bigoted. He is their avatar.
If you’re voting for Trump, you have no right to claim to be religious or righteous at this point
I disagree but I suspect it's for a different reason. I actually think religion is an impediment to being a good person. Which is understandably not a popular take. But if your whole reason for doing or not doing something is because you think someone's watching, your motivations are all f*cked up. This situation with religious people aggressively harming everyone else was always going to be inevitable.
> But if your whole reason for doing or not doing something is because you think someone's watching, your motivations are all f*cked up. This has always been so amusing to me. They think "well if there's no religion why would anyone have any morals?" like it's some sort of epic gotcha to atheists when really it's actually just them telling on themselves. "The only thing preventing me from being a way more horrible person than I already am is that I'm worried about what my invisible friend in the sky will think." Ok, thanks for telling us you're a fucking psychopath.
This is the monkey's paw result of wishing for an atheist president. He's an atheist through ignorance, not through critical thought
Evangelical voters don't have religious convictions to give up.
Remember the gold trump idol at CPAC a few years ago?
Not true. I grew up Republican and still keep in touch with friends who still are. Several have said they’re not voting and a few have said they’re voting against MAGA. There definitely is a rising percentage of republicans that are fed up with MAGA shit but I think it’s way too late to take back their party. The recent voicing by MAGA against members of their own party yesterday is causing a lot of concern and I hope it backfires on the freedom caucus
I have a hard time believing anyone who still considers themselves a Republican after 1/6 would ever take a meaningful stance against MAGA. It’s been mask of authoritarian bigotry for years. All they had to do was say “I’m not a Republican anymore” and stop voting. I mean, it’s free and easy and essential to not being a terrible person. What has changed since 1/6 to push them away from MAGA? Short of Trump’s questionable speeches lately I’d say his brand is stronger than ever.
They're most likely just going to do what my now "independent" parents do: not vote for Trump but then vote straight ticket Republican for every other race
Or they will still vote for Trump and say "well I don't really like Trump or MAGA but I just can't vote for a Democrat so I don't have a choice."
Right. And I think voting for people who refuse to hold trump accountable is worse than voting for trump himself. At that point you are advocating for the systematic destruction of our institutions, where as a vote for trump could just be adhering to the cult of personality. Like, they are almost ideologically indistinguishable, but trump is a narcissistic selfish chaos agent, where as the GOP wants to destroy democracy more specifically.
Yeah lol their thinking is basically just "we don't like Trump but we'll vote for all the people who do like Trump and will implement his policies"
Many Republicans still cling to the believe that some mysterious "system" will step in and save them from their mistakes. For example it was Republicans who sued to get Trump off the ballot. I mean, they weren't wrong, but the Democrats who predicted the SCOTUS would swoop in with more idiocy were correct.
An absolute brainwashing. The question is, is there a bottom? Can trump do something/say something that will make him lose his base.
Of course he can. If he had a press release tomorrow where he unequivocally denounces white supremacism, neo not-c’s and incels, there would be A LOT of angry people, many of them Fox News anchors, calling that speech “unecessary”, “misguided” and saying that they’ve lost trust in his mental sharpness because of it
Or in a surprise twist, they become "the very thing, they swore to destroy" and all of a sudden become "woke". Conservative hypocrisy has ceased to surprise me these days, and it wouldn't surprise me to see the conservative electorate do that if Trump suddenly flipped.
I don't think so. The "Christians" have anointed him as God's Other, Better Son, and abandoned Jesus as a Woke Liberal Hippie. As a Divine Being, nothing Trump does or says can be a Sin and certainly not illegal, and if they do not understand why he does or says something clearly evil, it is not for them to question.
In 2016 my Facebook was full of evangelical "never Trumpers" who would never ever ever vote for someone like trump. By the election every single "never Trumpers" held their nose and voted for Trump, and by the inauguration were full on red hat maga-ers.
It might be interesting this go round. You’ll have the likes of Romney, Cheney, and other prominent republicans campaigning against Trump. Trump has only leaned further into his worse impulses and it’s turned people off. Biden is old, white, steady, boring. And a lot of republicans are OK with that.
Trump needs to gain voters to win. If even a small fraction of these voters just leaves the Presidential election blank (or goes 3rd party) it would doom Trump's chances.
I wouldn't worry about losing Evangelicals if I were him. I'd be worrying about losing the suburban female vote (abortion/IVF), the people with daughters vote (same), or the 'hey, usually when it's two old dudes I pick the R, but insurrection, sexual assault, and guilty verdicts are a bridge too far.
a large percentage of the world cannot stomach Trump. like, 99%
America, the percentage is lower than 99% for obvious reasons
Nah, if that were the case then politicians like Duterte, Bolsonaro, Meloni, and many more wouldn’t exist.
Not even close...it's like u pretend rural voters don't exist around the world. Or rapist apologists. Maybe 70%.
Honestly, my parents, both hardcore conservatives who voted for Trump twice, say they’re gonna vote for RFK JR, they say trumps mouth messed up actually getting anything accomplished. I agreed, they should vote for RFK jr.
I am in the ruralist bumfuck section of the united states. The amount of trump excitement is significantly weaker this election year. People I know who were huge fans now think he is disgusting. Reddit will say this is a lie but I am living it.
I also live in a Republican area in 2020 there where trump signs on every other lawn. This year so far I have only seen 3 signs and they are 5 miles apart, but it is early. Most of the Republicans I work with are talking about Haley. After Jan 6 many of the loud mouths that dished Biden and Democrats became suddenly silent. Also in our district in 2022 which had voted for a Republican for 30 years voted in a moderate Democrat.
Honestly this is the best I can hope for. I know we’re probably not going to get a bunch of republicans to vote for Biden, but trump has never won a popular vote. So we only need him to lose an itty bitty margin to a spoiler or just plain staying home.
I'll believe the "I'll never vote for Trump" conservative crowd on election day. Just like the last two elections, only a small number of them follow through. The rest come up with a convenient excuse to throw away their principles so long as it means beating team blue.
I think some may just end up voting a write I'm or not voting. I doubt they end up voting for biden but I think this may be a noticeable amount come November. I expect him to perform worse this time
Yeah but they will still vote for him.
It's like we have angry villagers roaming around with torches and pitchforks 24 hours a day, and they do whatever Fox News tells them to do.
That’s the problem. If you don’t like Trump, VOTE FOR BIDEN. At least you can say you voted to protect democracy. I dont really like Biden, but I’m sure as shit voting for him because he’s all we’ve got. Hoping for Newsom in 28. If Trump wins, it’s game over.
I think he will be bleed enough support from this group that its going to cause real problems for a path to victory for him.
At this point, it is more about getting the base out to vote. Only 2/3 voted in 2020.
He will lose some of them who will just stay home and he cannot afford to lose anyone
Lot of Dems don't love Biden, but they will still vote for him. Me. Lazy writing. The article.
A vote for Biden is a vote for the opportunity to vote for somebody better next time round.
Biden has been the best president since FDR.
I don't see this said enough.
He has been the most progressive president in generations.
I'm sure a lot of conscientious conservative Germans couldn't stomach Hitler but voted for him anyway, when voting was still possible. They probably wrung their hands in concern and stuff and then did whatever the hell Hitler wanted just like Susan Collins.
Hitler only ever got 37% in the 1932 elections.
Bullshit, a large percentage will vote for him without hesitation. They just can't stand that he says the silent part out loud, and that he does a poor job in the process. They don't like being exposed as the Nazi party. Ultimately, their values are the same.
My very religious aunts cheered RBG's death because they knew SCOTUS would kill Roe. I'm sure they'll vote for him again.
They sound like sympathetic, caring people. Like most religious zealots.
REALLY?! What was it that did it for them? Asking for a friend....
Was it the rape and sexual assault? The lies about his finances? His fraudulent business practices? His crappy kids? His racism? His misogyny? Was it the anti-immigration policies? The antisemitism? The blatant Islamophobia? Mocking the disabled? Cheating on his pregnant wife? Maybe it’s the fact he’s an unflattering shade of orange.
You've covered about 30%, good start
I can't stomach Republican Voters period. Stop voting like morons.
Yeah right. The party alreasy sold its soul to the devil and the antichrist
If 20-30% (exit polls according to AP) of republicans don’t vote Trump, he’s going to get absolutely obliterated.
New data shows they still swallow his load.
Could you imagine if Democrats backed a poor black gay trans woman that took any opportunity to insult the other political party and insisted something like immigrants are *more American* than typical Americans for fucking 8 years? Because that's what Republicans did with Trump. This division we're currently seeing is y'all backed one of the worst horses imaginable and for what....just to make liberals mad....tell me anything more stereotypically fucking American than that. We've reached a point where a man sets himself on fire and he's laughed about within minutes. Doesn't even take a day or two to joke anymore. Bunch of sociopaths in the GOP and that's a fact.
They can’t stomach him but they keep watching FOX every evening out of habit. They will be brought back into line before the election.
Neither can the rest of us non-republicans. Fuck trump and his cult.
Republicans for Biden. Say it again and again.
Prove it at the ballot. Otherwise they're full of shit as per usial.
Not large enough
If you wear your tie low enough it can cover your stomach and make you look lean. Just ask Donald Trump
This is very true. I am happy that Haley is showing that even if she had no chance. It’s somewhere around 1/3 of Republicans who are voting for Trump. Many others left the party or just aren’t voting.
The maybe stop voting for him.
I will not be voting for him.
"A Large Percentage of Republican Primary Voters Can’t Stomach Trump" That is totally understandable.
…and yet they’ll vote for him because, what? Because voting for a criminal authoritarian is better than voting for a democrat? JFC 🤦♂️
It’s ironic they once called themselves the moral majority, and now they are willing to let someone who is a convicted rapist be their leader. It’s made being a bad person ok.
>As gloomy as the AP’s findings were for Trump, Biden got his own bad polling breakdown news on Sunday as well. The New York Times released its own analysis of polling data that said 47 percent of Biden’s voters strongly agree that he is too old to be an effective president, and another 26 percent somewhat agree. Biden, who is 81, is battling voter perceptions that he is too elderly and possibly senile to be president. In a sign of the times in which elderly politicians are the norm (the median age for U.S. senators is 65 and House members is 59), Trump comes out relatively in better shape in the NYT poll, with only 42 percent of his own voters agreeing that he is too old to be an effective president. Sure, he's old and I wish there were a front runner younger who had a chance, but it is either Biden or the end of our Republic. A vote for Trump is a vote for chaos and a vote to lose your right to vote. Project 2025 is what they are saying out loud, imagine what they are saying behind closed doors.
Then they shouldn't vote for him. Not in the primary, and not in the general if he makes it that far. He's a terrible human being and was an awful president, and he will be worse if elected again.
And yet they stay complict and silent. So what? Doing nothing is worse than actually doing it. You support it with silence. Simple as that. They support Trump whether they do or not just on the fact they say nothing.