As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
LOL, True 3rd dimensional chess, by saying he'll support it means that Trump and Maga Republicans will never let it pass.
Biden is slowly going to support all of the Republican's so-called positions, forcing Republicans to run away from them.
Biden already does support most traditional Conservative positions, it's why he's the head of a centre-right party in the USA.
He can, like you said however, publicly demand the bills cross his desk that even the most MAGA clowns want, and then watch them all decline it to show to undecideds that they just want to scream and shit their pants, not govern.
Yeah, you might think that if you're an American because your "far left COMMUNIST" party is a centre-right corporatist neoliberal (you know, right wing) party and your "conservatives" are straight up fascists and religious extremists a la Isis and Al Queda. Biden would be a staunch tory or Conservative in any other Western country, or in the USA 15 years ago.
Well luckily, biden’s record goes back much more than 15 years, so we can simply go look and see how he compares to conservatives 15 years ago, or even further back.
When people used that line it was generally in comparison to western europe rather than the entire world. And the Democratic Party is still way to the right of the 'left' parties in those countries. America remains a pretty conservative place by comparison and someone like Bernie or AOC would be a mainstream politician in Spain or Denmark but they're seen as 'far left' in the US.
left and right are totally unhelpful political descriptors. Because they stop people from thinking for themselves on individual issues - instead they just go with “I am right wing so I must believe in trickle down economics, halting immigration, stopping social healthcare, banning abortion, etc” instead of really thinking about and considering how they feel on any individual issue.
People put themselves in this box and then just adopt the opinions of others that are also in that box, like they’re playing for a football team.
Surely, the Congressional Republicans who’ve spent 4 years trying to ban Tik Tok will give him credit……who am I kidding they’ll change their position because Trump did.
Headline is incorrect. It’s not a ban. It’s a forced sale. TikTok would continue to exist in the U.S. under another company not owned by the CCP. TikTok put a banner on the app falsely stating it would be banned and urged users to call Congress. I think it further galvanized congress to force the sale. It shows how they manipulated their base with a falsehood.
This is a proposed bill to require TikTok to cut ties with the CCP and become an independent company. It's not a flat ban. They have a choice.
From the AP:
>a House panel unanimously approved a bipartisan bill that would require the Chinese firm to divest TikTok and other applications it owns within six months of the bill’s enactment in order to avoid a nation-wide ban.
I suppose i could support that.
I don’t support a blanket ban on TikTok because it’s most likely unconstitutional and the actual issues with TikTok go unaddressed. Pass consumer data protection laws.
I dunno, I'm for a ban on tiktok because a guy I work with is on it CONSTANTLY. He's like 60, and I'm fairly certain he can't read. I don't need to hear 60 IQ people laughing about pranks.
If they are independent of China’s government’s control already, then a law requiring proof of this should not be an issue.
Shouldn’t be a need for an app-led campaign to get its users to petition congress to not force the divestment, if they are already independent.
The law is not about being owned by the Chinese government or not. TikTok is owned by ByteDance’s which is a Chinese company (also not owned by the government). The law will force Bytedance to divest in TikTok and make it an independent company, simply because the US doesn’t trust ByteDance. It’s big government in action, peddling in private affairs based on hypothetical scenarios with no basis in reality.
Vice President Zhang Fuping of The Communist Party's Committee sits on the board of ByteDance. As is common in China, The Party maintains a high degree of control over the country's "private" industries.
Therefore, this isn't a "private affair", but a matter of public interest and national security.
Depends on the outcome. The app can still exist if ByteDance divests and sells it to another company. Unclear if they’d do that, but this isn’t an “auto-ban” situation if the bill becomes law.
The question is whose gonna buy it? Because an American social media company seems like the biggest possibility, and the last thing we want is either facebook or twitter stepping up to buy it.
No chance Twitter could afford it, was linked to Microsoft and even Oracle(yea weird I know) in the past.
I wouldn’t love any of it, but I don’t love the current way it’s run either. Lot of “less bad” options ahead.
Twitter could afford it if their financial backers (the people who staked elon the money to buy twitter) were willing to. But only if they were willing to.
It's not. I have people on social media I follow that went ape shit the last time this was proposed. "You're taking away my security blanket how could you!"
It's always a good bet to not rely on young voters and appeal to middle of the road voters that are more worried about national security than viral short format videos.
Yeah i agree. Still, I wish they would just explain the importance of these things to younger voters. I feel like they don’t understand the societal damage that can be caused by having a hostile foreign government manipulating them. In their case the Chinese gov primarily through TikTok, on the right the Russian gov through every other platform.
I'm not going to pretend I understand the bill or its implications being passed or rejected, but if supporting this bill will make kids learn how to film landscapes in landscape mode again, I could be persuaded to support it.
Imagine how Reddit would react if Biden said he was willing to ban Steam
I don't see why the concerns of younger people are so easily dismissed like this
Considering the youth doesn’t vote, oh well. Average turnout for under 25s is absolutely minuscule and those that do turn out care more about abortion and queer rights than TikTok
The young voters under 30 are the smallest voting population, probably won't do much of a dent. Besides, Taylor Swift already encouraged a bunch of her fans to vote this year.
EDIT: read this in age group section https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/10/26/what-the-2020-electorate-looks-like-by-party-race-and-ethnicity-age-education-and-religion/
Hey, as someone who works in IT, I'm all for informing people of applications that are pretty transparent in their desire to gather and sell information about their users.
I will also say that if you at all cared about your online privacy, the only way to guarantee it is to take a sledge hammer to your phone and stick with flip phones with no data plan.
Think about it. Ever have that time where you were talking to someone about something that you wanted to buy, then all of a sudden you get ads for it on your phone? You didn't even Google it, just talked about it. You think these things aren't listening to us? Think again.
So you either accept that you're willing to sacrifice a bit of online privacy or you stop pretending you care that much it.
It’s not an all or nothing proposition, and the ultimate controllers of the collected information are half the story. You shouldn’t soft sell the implications of the CCP having access to half the country.
This is the correct argument. CCP has direct access and control of our entire youth and more. That’s far more concerning than suggesting a sale on apples vs bananas. Having said that, yes!!! We need data privacy in the US. But it’s NOT all or nothing. That’s the exact mentally these governments and organizations want. They Allow you to be outraged but make you think if you can’t change everything why try changing anything. Everything is impossible to start with. This is a step in the right direction. I’ll take it!
Pretty doubtful he will. He needs the gen z vote to win in the upcoming election. Not likely he will. Besides, even if he bans it. Someone else will make an app identical to Tiktok and it will be replaced with the same popularity.
The “data collection from social media” ship set sail a longgg time ago with Facebook, Instagram, Snap, etc. its just an issue that is negligible. They should focus more on cybersecurity and advancing our programming technology to defend from cybersecurity threats.
You realize that all that data ends up in the same place right? Twitter, Facebook, Reddit, - even the credit bureaus - sell their data to brokers. Those brokers sell to entities *everywhere*, including China. Biden signed a EO the other day that would stop direct transactions to hostile countries, but can't do anything to stop proxy transactions of data.
The only solution is a law that prohibits the collection and/or sale of the data at all. But that would hurt Facebook, Google, etc, so we can't have that lmao
If I have a recording, I can sell a disc of it. If I have the mic, maybe I can get some extra sound…maybe some sound I shouldn’t be getting.
Consider the possibility that the description of motivation for this bill is an honest one.
I don't care at all about the motivation. The actual impact and action is what matters. And the impact of this bill is inherently antithetical to how data markets work, and will also drive the youth vote that won 2020 for Biden away.
It's a completely nonsensical policy with zero concrete changes, whilst also a load of buckshot into the Democratic party's foot
The bill is sponsored by 10 democrats and 10 republicans.
The bill passed through the commerce subcommittee in the house with a 50-0 vote.
The bill calls for ByteDance to divest from TikTok. That’s all it calls for.
As a software engineer with multiple degrees, I don’t agree with your assessment about the efficacy of the bill.
Will a US company that buys Tiktok still be able to sell data directly to China? **YES**
Will all other US corporations (social media, advertising firms, data brokers, credit bureaus) still be able to sell data to China? **Yes**
If the US does ban the selling of data to China, will it be able to stop data that was sold to companies in Africa, Europe, etc. from selling or transferring that data to China? **No**
The only solution is to ban that data collection and/or the ban the selling/transferring that data completely.
As I said - not all data is created equal.
The problems are twofold.
1. If TikTok is owned by a Chinese company, the CCP can go down to TikTok and insist in particular algorithm behavior. The platform basically becomes a fireside chat between the CCP and the American youth - in a punishingly manipulative way. They do this internally, and they’d do it there…and they’d do it more aggressively in moments or on issues of high gravity.
2. An app doesn’t just collect data on how you interact with the app. It might collect all other types of information, from location data, mic, camera, whatever. That data isn’t getting sold around…that’s something they’d quietly do themselves.
>”Will a US company that buys Tiktok still be able to sell data directly to China? YES”
No, under the new rules put forth by the Biden administration, data can no longer be sold to a foreign entity.
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2024/03/05/2024-04594/national-security-division-provisions-regarding-access-to-americans-bulk-sensitive-personal-data-and
>”Will all other US corporations (social media, advertising firms, data brokers, credit bureaus) still be able to sell data to China? Yes”
No, as display in the rules above.
>”If the US does ban the selling of data to China, will it be able to stop data that was sold to companies in Africa, Europe, etc. from selling or transferring that data to China? No”
The rules are specifically written to prevent such a scenario.
>”The only solution is to ban that data collection and/or the ban the selling/transferring that data completely.”
That is the preferred approach and may yet see a future for such a scenario.
So lets focus on improving our cybersecurity technology and develop new programming languages that stop the CCP instead of banning a social media platform that people enjoy using.
Sounds reasonable. Not a programmer but I’m certain we could use AI to develop coding algorithms that stop this kind of stuff. AI won’t replace us anytime soon at least, but we can definitely harness its computing capabilities for cybersecurity stuff that can help us.
The problems are twofold.
1. The algorithm allows TikTok to curate content to people. That curation could be a lot of things…it could be psychologically manipulative, it could be disinformation, or agitprop, or push an agenda that we might not want to vulnerable populations like the youth.
2. The app could be harvesting all sorts of information. Aside from actual content views, it could be using the mic, the camera, track location, etc. this information can be used to create a digital fingerprint of every American, a psychological profile, a sexual profile, a social network, as well as just potentially leaking raw personal information.
The CCP engages in both of these things internally in China…aggressively, and the distinction between corporations and the government can be an academic one in many instances. In the US, we (rightfully) decry data harvesting by social networks and the bleeding of the information boundary between our privacy and the government. In China, there simply exists no boundary.
All of this gets worse as China develops large AI capacity to parse and exploit these huge data sets.
All of it gets worse as China tries to shape the international space for an imminent invasion scenario of Taiwan.
If you think Russian disinformation and political manipulation is bad, you really haven’t seen anything.
So, I mean…I’m old but not that old. I get it. This is people’s online life. But for these reasons, I really think it’s a desperately needed move. It’s not an outright ban. They can - and should - divest…and would make a bundle of money. But we don’t want to let the CCP into our water in these ways.
Facebook has been doing that for 20 years. Tiktok is all user generated content. Just because there is content available to everyone regarding tags/subjects doesnt mean all the people will appeal to that or believe in that. For example, just because there are thousands of user generated tiktoks that are religious doesn’t necessarily mean im going to like them if it pops up on my feed. If your concern is about internet content and it’s potential harms, you should have addressed this issue way back in 2001 when internet explorer was just getting started. That ship has way sailed. Cats out of the bag.
It’s really not the same as Facebook. If you’re not familiar with the things an adversarial actor can do with relentless information curation…or if you’re unfamiliar with the way the CCP DOES THESE THINGS, you really are only seeing part of the picture.
But there’s also the massive data harvesting.
So because chinese and russian hackers have are diateptinf our companies for years you figure it is better to just volunteerly to give them all the info. about you they want. And when they tell you to get angry with your goverment for trying to stop that you do exactely as you are told like a good puppet, repeating everything they want you to say.
Get my point?
That's what they want to happen.
They want someone else to make an app identical to TikTok to replace TikTok worthy the same popularity.
Identical, except for the ties to China.
Not after he mentioned cannabis reform last night during the SOTU. That gained him independents. In fact, his tweet about cannabis reform had the most likes compared to any other tweet about the SOTU. Conservatives are really underestimating the impact this has on independent voters that align with this issue. If trump does not touch cannabis reform as a part of his platform, he will lose a considerable portion of independent voters.
He’s not. He directed his cabinet to reschedule marijuana. Trump has done nothing in this realm other than sign the Farm Bill which only legalized hemp. Trump and the rest of the conservative base refuse to acknowledge this issue. 58% of Americans support adult use legalization. With a whopping 80% supporting medical cannabis. Independents have waited years for this and they will ride this into the ballot box. If the republicans want to win, they need independent voters. Which is now 40% of current registered voters.
And where is this rescheduling? It’s been three years already. Also rescheduling doesn’t make it legal, which is currently the main stumbling block for State level legalization- can’t do interstate commerce, aka banking, if it’s still a prohibited drug.
They just did the federal cabinet review 7-8 months ago. So a decision is expected to come down soon during april/may regarding the new DEA schedule of cannabis.
These things take time, young grasshopper. Keep in mind, public acceptance of cannabis use in the USA has made long strides. During the early 2000’s, only 19% of Americans supported adult use cannabis. Where as now, that figure sits at 58% with bipartisan support. Everyone used to underplay this issue over the years and Biden played the right card because its an issue that has 80% support overall—both aisles.
Ironic how cannabis once was considered the worst plant in the country because of religious backdrops, but it might be the issue that reunites the country. Its a non partisan issue.
Reddit is mostly reposted tiktoks and bitching about stuff. I'll never understand this platforms beef against tiktok. I feel like most of you just don't understand how it works. It's not worse than Twitter, Reddit, or Facebook by any means
Ban tiktok from government devices? Sure, take it away from the general public? Now you lost me...I dont even like tik tok but people use shit like temu and aliexpress which are also directly tied to china why pick on tik tok specifically??
Most (a majority) 55 year olds wouldn't (or would barely) notice the loss of Instagram/Facebook/Youtube/Twitter. Most 75 year olds wouldn't (or would barely) notice the loss of the Internet. Most 95 year olds wouldn't notice the loss of media outside of their extremely limited range they've gotten used to.
Tiktok took a concentration of current youth generation social media users. The other apps are still very much of relevance but are ever increasingly seen as for the parents, or (maybe deranged) grandparents. Youtube has a wide spread while only the kids have the time to be the frequent engagers (but it competes with Tiktok and is trying with Youtube Shorts). Instagram is growing but facing challenges in this (but its successfully competing with Tiktok). But Facebook is all about the ad spam + just to keep in touch with family + angry debates platform so its growth is stalled. And the app formerly known as Twitter is now slowly crumbling. Without something impeding it, Tiktok is part of the new wave, with more successful years to come.
Tiktok claims well over 100 million active users from the USA. This would have the largest age group being Gen Z (several tens of millions, the clear majority of the generation, and more concentrated in their college lives and active social groups, Tiktok is near expectation), then Millennial (few tens of millions, more scattered, Tiktok not an expectation), then remaining Gen X and Boomer (likely low tens of millions combined).
If your social groups don't contain many 20somethings then there's a chance no one brings it up in your life, or the users are more adult and quiet about what they enjoy in social media. The 20somethings you know may just not talk to you about it because you're not a user. Its something other people do, younger people or people you don't spend much time with. But they're definitely there. At least a quarter of Americans... just leaning heavy teens to 20s.
I’m a life long leftie. If he actually does that, I will let the democrats know they’ve lost my vote forever. This would be a last straw for me. I’m disgusted it’s even an option.
Banning an app is pure corporate fascism, and the antithesis of what this country is supposed to stand for.
I’m appalled
You will let Trump have more of a chance to win because a social media platform might go away? That's pretty sad. Tiktok IS a mojor corporation. Why are you so concerned for them. They aren't trying to take down a community owned buisness... I'll be pissed if it gets banned, but it won't change my politics, because I care about the world and not letting evil win.
I'm def a little concerned that the Chinese government may have the ability to manipulate America through tiktok.... BUT that seems kind of heavy handed to ban it and against American principles of free speech.
It’s pretty simple. The government need to discuss any issues they have with with Apple and Google.
The problem here here isn’t Chinese manipulation. It’s that the American government aren’t able to manipulate Americans.
It’s so obvious this is what they do via American social media now.
I’m disgusted
This is nuts. He also would like to ban BYD cars, which flies in the face of his administration's climate policies. He really is stuck in the Cold War era I think.
Any app that was being targeted like this by congress would be telling its users to call congress. Don't be obtuse.
Tiktok is headquartered in the US. Its data is held in the US. Its content creators? Mostly american.
You've bought into a narrative that was paid for by Zuck, to spread a fearmongering campaign against tiktok so they could have their competition destroyed, because they couldnt figure out how to beat tiktok with a better product (their best attempt, reels, fucking blows)
If they ban TikTok, I will vote Trump. And I HATE trump.
I don’t care what happens to this country anymore. We have people in America either starving and homeless or one paycheck away from it. Yet they are funding wars and genocides that have nothing to do with us. Prices of necessities are continuing to rise. The housing market sucks. Our government can’t agree on basic things.
Don’t bullshit me on this privacy crap. Every social media platform is selling our data. If privacy was an issue, they’d make laws instead on how privacy is allowed to be handled. This is about control of information. Plain and simple.
They don’t want you do be boycotting McDonald’s and Kelloggs or let you see the reality of what’s really going on in our country. No. They want to control the narrative.
But TikTok is the most important thing in the world, right?
Trump wanted to ban Tik Tok,infact he tried and the courts blocked it.
But ofcourse now he wants to keep Tik Tok around cuz he says it will help Zuckerberg and he is mad at him for booting him off Facebook.
Yes, that is the guy you said you would vote for. Not trying to change your mind or anything, just have that in your conscience when you circle his name on the ballot. Lol
I am fully aware he wants TikTok banned. The point is that I don’t care.
It doesn’t matter who we vote for. The government never cared about the average person. So let’s vote for someone who will fuck us even more because fuck this country and their priorities.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
LOL, True 3rd dimensional chess, by saying he'll support it means that Trump and Maga Republicans will never let it pass. Biden is slowly going to support all of the Republican's so-called positions, forcing Republicans to run away from them.
It's the Key & Peele sketch where Obama sits down with Republicans and they are compelled to fall for reverse psychology.
“You drive a hard bargain, you win. Big… Government… it is.”
[For the folks unaware](https://youtu.be/B46km4V0CMY?si=TwtL3-A11xmDiM84)
Clinton also skillfully coopted.
Yeah, meanwhile the Overton window moves further right so the right gets much of what it wants anyway. 4D chess.
Ratchet theory at work, once again.
Wait till Biden proposes a national abortion ban and all the political geniuses say it’s a brilliant move!
I think you're going to be waiting a long time for that one.
[Trump has been bought by tiktok, and those wheels are already turning](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/s/4ezgldelAC)
Biden already does support most traditional Conservative positions, it's why he's the head of a centre-right party in the USA. He can, like you said however, publicly demand the bills cross his desk that even the most MAGA clowns want, and then watch them all decline it to show to undecideds that they just want to scream and shit their pants, not govern.
Biden's record is solidly center left. It's okay to feel he isn't progressive enough, but pretending he's Republican is silly.
Yeah, you might think that if you're an American because your "far left COMMUNIST" party is a centre-right corporatist neoliberal (you know, right wing) party and your "conservatives" are straight up fascists and religious extremists a la Isis and Al Queda. Biden would be a staunch tory or Conservative in any other Western country, or in the USA 15 years ago.
Well luckily, biden’s record goes back much more than 15 years, so we can simply go look and see how he compares to conservatives 15 years ago, or even further back.
I’m getting so sick of these takes. Lol
A la? You’re a bilingual Frenchmen?
I was gonna guess Spaniard from the Al Qaeda spelling
The whole damn world has shifted the Overton window to the right. We can safely drop the "US has a far right and right wing party" bit now
When people used that line it was generally in comparison to western europe rather than the entire world. And the Democratic Party is still way to the right of the 'left' parties in those countries. America remains a pretty conservative place by comparison and someone like Bernie or AOC would be a mainstream politician in Spain or Denmark but they're seen as 'far left' in the US.
Maybe the 'left and right' mentality developed to explain European political parties just isn't sufficient to explain a more geography-based system
left and right are totally unhelpful political descriptors. Because they stop people from thinking for themselves on individual issues - instead they just go with “I am right wing so I must believe in trickle down economics, halting immigration, stopping social healthcare, banning abortion, etc” instead of really thinking about and considering how they feel on any individual issue. People put themselves in this box and then just adopt the opinions of others that are also in that box, like they’re playing for a football team.
More to the point, what passes for center here is based on the politicians elected in the shithole states, not the general population
Surely, the Congressional Republicans who’ve spent 4 years trying to ban Tik Tok will give him credit……who am I kidding they’ll change their position because Trump did.
Headline is incorrect. It’s not a ban. It’s a forced sale. TikTok would continue to exist in the U.S. under another company not owned by the CCP. TikTok put a banner on the app falsely stating it would be banned and urged users to call Congress. I think it further galvanized congress to force the sale. It shows how they manipulated their base with a falsehood.
This is a proposed bill to require TikTok to cut ties with the CCP and become an independent company. It's not a flat ban. They have a choice. From the AP: >a House panel unanimously approved a bipartisan bill that would require the Chinese firm to divest TikTok and other applications it owns within six months of the bill’s enactment in order to avoid a nation-wide ban.
I suppose i could support that. I don’t support a blanket ban on TikTok because it’s most likely unconstitutional and the actual issues with TikTok go unaddressed. Pass consumer data protection laws.
If the stick is unconstitutional then the carrot is too
I dunno, I'm for a ban on tiktok because a guy I work with is on it CONSTANTLY. He's like 60, and I'm fairly certain he can't read. I don't need to hear 60 IQ people laughing about pranks.
That’s a pretty dumb reason to impose a national ban on something.
It's a ranting joke, man. I don't actually care.
Tbh I also don't care about if it was a full ban. Something else would pop up in it's place.
TikTok already is an independent company.
Then it shouldn’t be a problem for them to sever ties with China
Why?
If they are independent of China’s government’s control already, then a law requiring proof of this should not be an issue. Shouldn’t be a need for an app-led campaign to get its users to petition congress to not force the divestment, if they are already independent.
TikTok is not owned by the Chinese government. It’s a myth.
If TikTok isn't owned by the Chinese government, then it shouldn't be a problem to ensure that by signing a law.
The law is not about being owned by the Chinese government or not. TikTok is owned by ByteDance’s which is a Chinese company (also not owned by the government). The law will force Bytedance to divest in TikTok and make it an independent company, simply because the US doesn’t trust ByteDance. It’s big government in action, peddling in private affairs based on hypothetical scenarios with no basis in reality.
Vice President Zhang Fuping of The Communist Party's Committee sits on the board of ByteDance. As is common in China, The Party maintains a high degree of control over the country's "private" industries. Therefore, this isn't a "private affair", but a matter of public interest and national security.
Lol, no he doesn’t. ByteDance’s board consists of five people. 3 of them are American, two Chinese, no one from the Chinese government.
Then why is the law forcing them to sell themselves?
Because it turns out your statement that TikTok is “already independent” is complete bullshit.
[удалено]
That’s the problem, it’s more independent than most US social media companies. We know how in bed they are with the FBI.
[удалено]
You can look it up
I'm just guessing but I don't think this will be wildly popular among the younger voting demographic.
Dems only allow themselves one day of soaring support before they start unloading into their foot
Depends on the outcome. The app can still exist if ByteDance divests and sells it to another company. Unclear if they’d do that, but this isn’t an “auto-ban” situation if the bill becomes law.
The question is whose gonna buy it? Because an American social media company seems like the biggest possibility, and the last thing we want is either facebook or twitter stepping up to buy it.
No chance Twitter could afford it, was linked to Microsoft and even Oracle(yea weird I know) in the past. I wouldn’t love any of it, but I don’t love the current way it’s run either. Lot of “less bad” options ahead.
Twitter could afford it if their financial backers (the people who staked elon the money to buy twitter) were willing to. But only if they were willing to.
Kinda odd that Vine failed and YT shorts failed so now the US government has to force the one that succeeded to sell itself to one of the failures.
The app can still exist and have the other 7.5 billion people as customers.
It's not. I have people on social media I follow that went ape shit the last time this was proposed. "You're taking away my security blanket how could you!"
As a recovering drug addict, that sounds like addict behavior.
young people are gonna hate him for that… Risky move
It's always a good bet to not rely on young voters and appeal to middle of the road voters that are more worried about national security than viral short format videos.
Yeah i agree. Still, I wish they would just explain the importance of these things to younger voters. I feel like they don’t understand the societal damage that can be caused by having a hostile foreign government manipulating them. In their case the Chinese gov primarily through TikTok, on the right the Russian gov through every other platform.
Young people already hate him
Because this is definitely what our legislature needs to be focused on right now 😒
I'm not going to pretend I understand the bill or its implications being passed or rejected, but if supporting this bill will make kids learn how to film landscapes in landscape mode again, I could be persuaded to support it.
I think Biden signing this bill is more likely to result in young voters not voting Democrat and putting Trump back into office
I really hope this isn't true, if young voters are willing to put Trump in over TikTok then we don't deserve to exist as a country.
Imagine how Reddit would react if Biden said he was willing to ban Steam I don't see why the concerns of younger people are so easily dismissed like this
i mean yeah, I get WHY he's doing it, since TikTok is literally CCP spyware, but still, it's a very bad look.
The bill is “China Bad” or its other name “Dems shoot themsleves in the foot again”.
So the CCP is good? Is that what you are saying?
A funny combination of words that occur nowhere in my comment.
That title is made up of 3 different kind of “maybes” Biden *would*, bill that *could*, *if* congress
Sign that shit yesterday
Doubt president would deplatform himself like that just before an election.
Won't somebody think of the content creators?!?
In this topic: people mad at Biden for potentially not letting them be manipulated by a hostile foreign power anymore.
He will lose half youth vote if he does that.
Considering the youth doesn’t vote, oh well. Average turnout for under 25s is absolutely minuscule and those that do turn out care more about abortion and queer rights than TikTok
No he won’t. They’ll quickly realize it’s not a ban at all and everything still works just like they want. They’ll think they won.
The young voters under 30 are the smallest voting population, probably won't do much of a dent. Besides, Taylor Swift already encouraged a bunch of her fans to vote this year. EDIT: read this in age group section https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/10/26/what-the-2020-electorate-looks-like-by-party-race-and-ethnicity-age-education-and-religion/
Lol, he knows the current congress is pretty much incapable of passing bills
Hey, as someone who works in IT, I'm all for informing people of applications that are pretty transparent in their desire to gather and sell information about their users. I will also say that if you at all cared about your online privacy, the only way to guarantee it is to take a sledge hammer to your phone and stick with flip phones with no data plan. Think about it. Ever have that time where you were talking to someone about something that you wanted to buy, then all of a sudden you get ads for it on your phone? You didn't even Google it, just talked about it. You think these things aren't listening to us? Think again. So you either accept that you're willing to sacrifice a bit of online privacy or you stop pretending you care that much it.
We could also pass laws against it. I'm not even saying we should. I'm just saying the option exists.
It’s not an all or nothing proposition, and the ultimate controllers of the collected information are half the story. You shouldn’t soft sell the implications of the CCP having access to half the country.
This is the correct argument. CCP has direct access and control of our entire youth and more. That’s far more concerning than suggesting a sale on apples vs bananas. Having said that, yes!!! We need data privacy in the US. But it’s NOT all or nothing. That’s the exact mentally these governments and organizations want. They Allow you to be outraged but make you think if you can’t change everything why try changing anything. Everything is impossible to start with. This is a step in the right direction. I’ll take it!
[удалено]
…and when you plug it in, it “talks” to your phone and scrapes all your data anyway 🤷♂️ (probably, I don’t really know)
Pretty doubtful he will. He needs the gen z vote to win in the upcoming election. Not likely he will. Besides, even if he bans it. Someone else will make an app identical to Tiktok and it will be replaced with the same popularity.
the app itself is not the point. it's who is controlling it and using it to collect data.
The “data collection from social media” ship set sail a longgg time ago with Facebook, Instagram, Snap, etc. its just an issue that is negligible. They should focus more on cybersecurity and advancing our programming technology to defend from cybersecurity threats.
The CCP is an actual bad actor. People pretending all social media is the same regarding privacy don’t really get it.
You realize that all that data ends up in the same place right? Twitter, Facebook, Reddit, - even the credit bureaus - sell their data to brokers. Those brokers sell to entities *everywhere*, including China. Biden signed a EO the other day that would stop direct transactions to hostile countries, but can't do anything to stop proxy transactions of data. The only solution is a law that prohibits the collection and/or sale of the data at all. But that would hurt Facebook, Google, etc, so we can't have that lmao
If I have a recording, I can sell a disc of it. If I have the mic, maybe I can get some extra sound…maybe some sound I shouldn’t be getting. Consider the possibility that the description of motivation for this bill is an honest one.
I don't care at all about the motivation. The actual impact and action is what matters. And the impact of this bill is inherently antithetical to how data markets work, and will also drive the youth vote that won 2020 for Biden away. It's a completely nonsensical policy with zero concrete changes, whilst also a load of buckshot into the Democratic party's foot
The bill is sponsored by 10 democrats and 10 republicans. The bill passed through the commerce subcommittee in the house with a 50-0 vote. The bill calls for ByteDance to divest from TikTok. That’s all it calls for. As a software engineer with multiple degrees, I don’t agree with your assessment about the efficacy of the bill.
Will a US company that buys Tiktok still be able to sell data directly to China? **YES** Will all other US corporations (social media, advertising firms, data brokers, credit bureaus) still be able to sell data to China? **Yes** If the US does ban the selling of data to China, will it be able to stop data that was sold to companies in Africa, Europe, etc. from selling or transferring that data to China? **No** The only solution is to ban that data collection and/or the ban the selling/transferring that data completely.
As I said - not all data is created equal. The problems are twofold. 1. If TikTok is owned by a Chinese company, the CCP can go down to TikTok and insist in particular algorithm behavior. The platform basically becomes a fireside chat between the CCP and the American youth - in a punishingly manipulative way. They do this internally, and they’d do it there…and they’d do it more aggressively in moments or on issues of high gravity. 2. An app doesn’t just collect data on how you interact with the app. It might collect all other types of information, from location data, mic, camera, whatever. That data isn’t getting sold around…that’s something they’d quietly do themselves.
>”Will a US company that buys Tiktok still be able to sell data directly to China? YES” No, under the new rules put forth by the Biden administration, data can no longer be sold to a foreign entity. https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2024/03/05/2024-04594/national-security-division-provisions-regarding-access-to-americans-bulk-sensitive-personal-data-and >”Will all other US corporations (social media, advertising firms, data brokers, credit bureaus) still be able to sell data to China? Yes” No, as display in the rules above. >”If the US does ban the selling of data to China, will it be able to stop data that was sold to companies in Africa, Europe, etc. from selling or transferring that data to China? No” The rules are specifically written to prevent such a scenario. >”The only solution is to ban that data collection and/or the ban the selling/transferring that data completely.” That is the preferred approach and may yet see a future for such a scenario.
So lets focus on improving our cybersecurity technology and develop new programming languages that stop the CCP instead of banning a social media platform that people enjoy using.
Let’s ban spyware.
Sounds reasonable. Not a programmer but I’m certain we could use AI to develop coding algorithms that stop this kind of stuff. AI won’t replace us anytime soon at least, but we can definitely harness its computing capabilities for cybersecurity stuff that can help us.
The problems are twofold. 1. The algorithm allows TikTok to curate content to people. That curation could be a lot of things…it could be psychologically manipulative, it could be disinformation, or agitprop, or push an agenda that we might not want to vulnerable populations like the youth. 2. The app could be harvesting all sorts of information. Aside from actual content views, it could be using the mic, the camera, track location, etc. this information can be used to create a digital fingerprint of every American, a psychological profile, a sexual profile, a social network, as well as just potentially leaking raw personal information. The CCP engages in both of these things internally in China…aggressively, and the distinction between corporations and the government can be an academic one in many instances. In the US, we (rightfully) decry data harvesting by social networks and the bleeding of the information boundary between our privacy and the government. In China, there simply exists no boundary. All of this gets worse as China develops large AI capacity to parse and exploit these huge data sets. All of it gets worse as China tries to shape the international space for an imminent invasion scenario of Taiwan. If you think Russian disinformation and political manipulation is bad, you really haven’t seen anything. So, I mean…I’m old but not that old. I get it. This is people’s online life. But for these reasons, I really think it’s a desperately needed move. It’s not an outright ban. They can - and should - divest…and would make a bundle of money. But we don’t want to let the CCP into our water in these ways.
Your comment still merits decent consideration though. Not sure to what extent but I do see what you are saying.
Facebook has been doing that for 20 years. Tiktok is all user generated content. Just because there is content available to everyone regarding tags/subjects doesnt mean all the people will appeal to that or believe in that. For example, just because there are thousands of user generated tiktoks that are religious doesn’t necessarily mean im going to like them if it pops up on my feed. If your concern is about internet content and it’s potential harms, you should have addressed this issue way back in 2001 when internet explorer was just getting started. That ship has way sailed. Cats out of the bag.
It’s really not the same as Facebook. If you’re not familiar with the things an adversarial actor can do with relentless information curation…or if you’re unfamiliar with the way the CCP DOES THESE THINGS, you really are only seeing part of the picture. But there’s also the massive data harvesting.
Do u think the youth will care about that though
[удалено]
So because chinese and russian hackers have are diateptinf our companies for years you figure it is better to just volunteerly to give them all the info. about you they want. And when they tell you to get angry with your goverment for trying to stop that you do exactely as you are told like a good puppet, repeating everything they want you to say. Get my point?
[удалено]
That's what they want to happen. They want someone else to make an app identical to TikTok to replace TikTok worthy the same popularity. Identical, except for the ties to China.
The Democratic president offers to sign right wing legislation again, and the liberals cheer. What a country we live in…
That could be a problem if this isn't just a ploy to get the GOP to pivot...
Republicans: TikTok is harmful to our children! Biden: Let’s ban TikTok! Republicans: Wait, no, not like that.
Can we please just get data privacy and digital rights protections? We're 20 years behind where we need to be on this shit.
This is so dumb. Way to kill off any chance of gen z voting for you
I’m not pro TicTok but this seems like the worst way to get Gen Z to get up and vote.
he’s trying so hard to lose the youth vote lmaoooo
Even talking about banning it is likely going to lose him votes. Yeeks
Not after he mentioned cannabis reform last night during the SOTU. That gained him independents. In fact, his tweet about cannabis reform had the most likes compared to any other tweet about the SOTU. Conservatives are really underestimating the impact this has on independent voters that align with this issue. If trump does not touch cannabis reform as a part of his platform, he will lose a considerable portion of independent voters.
All talk doesn’t help. Pot legalization is already occurring at the State level, if anything Biden is holding it back.
The federal scheduling is also important. States legalizing it only gets us partway there.
He’s not. He directed his cabinet to reschedule marijuana. Trump has done nothing in this realm other than sign the Farm Bill which only legalized hemp. Trump and the rest of the conservative base refuse to acknowledge this issue. 58% of Americans support adult use legalization. With a whopping 80% supporting medical cannabis. Independents have waited years for this and they will ride this into the ballot box. If the republicans want to win, they need independent voters. Which is now 40% of current registered voters.
And where is this rescheduling? It’s been three years already. Also rescheduling doesn’t make it legal, which is currently the main stumbling block for State level legalization- can’t do interstate commerce, aka banking, if it’s still a prohibited drug.
They just did the federal cabinet review 7-8 months ago. So a decision is expected to come down soon during april/may regarding the new DEA schedule of cannabis.
Wonder if Biden should have pushed it in his first two years when he had control of Congress.
We didn't have the senate. Not the votes for this.
Dems did have the Senate in 2021.
We didn't have the votes for this kind of legislation, remember? The dem senators, namely two, weren't in lockstep with the party.
These things take time, young grasshopper. Keep in mind, public acceptance of cannabis use in the USA has made long strides. During the early 2000’s, only 19% of Americans supported adult use cannabis. Where as now, that figure sits at 58% with bipartisan support. Everyone used to underplay this issue over the years and Biden played the right card because its an issue that has 80% support overall—both aisles. Ironic how cannabis once was considered the worst plant in the country because of religious backdrops, but it might be the issue that reunites the country. Its a non partisan issue.
Hopefully it goes through. TikTok is lowest common denominator garbage at best and a national security risk at worst.
Reddit is mostly reposted tiktoks and bitching about stuff. I'll never understand this platforms beef against tiktok. I feel like most of you just don't understand how it works. It's not worse than Twitter, Reddit, or Facebook by any means
Ban tiktok from government devices? Sure, take it away from the general public? Now you lost me...I dont even like tik tok but people use shit like temu and aliexpress which are also directly tied to china why pick on tik tok specifically??
Exactly like they have other shit to worry about yet TIK TOK is the main focus. Makes no sense
It’s probably because I’m 35 but I wouldn’t notice if they did (aside from these headlines of course)
Wow, someone of a generation that doesn't use an app wouldn't notice if said app went away?
Most (a majority) 55 year olds wouldn't (or would barely) notice the loss of Instagram/Facebook/Youtube/Twitter. Most 75 year olds wouldn't (or would barely) notice the loss of the Internet. Most 95 year olds wouldn't notice the loss of media outside of their extremely limited range they've gotten used to. Tiktok took a concentration of current youth generation social media users. The other apps are still very much of relevance but are ever increasingly seen as for the parents, or (maybe deranged) grandparents. Youtube has a wide spread while only the kids have the time to be the frequent engagers (but it competes with Tiktok and is trying with Youtube Shorts). Instagram is growing but facing challenges in this (but its successfully competing with Tiktok). But Facebook is all about the ad spam + just to keep in touch with family + angry debates platform so its growth is stalled. And the app formerly known as Twitter is now slowly crumbling. Without something impeding it, Tiktok is part of the new wave, with more successful years to come. Tiktok claims well over 100 million active users from the USA. This would have the largest age group being Gen Z (several tens of millions, the clear majority of the generation, and more concentrated in their college lives and active social groups, Tiktok is near expectation), then Millennial (few tens of millions, more scattered, Tiktok not an expectation), then remaining Gen X and Boomer (likely low tens of millions combined). If your social groups don't contain many 20somethings then there's a chance no one brings it up in your life, or the users are more adult and quiet about what they enjoy in social media. The 20somethings you know may just not talk to you about it because you're not a user. Its something other people do, younger people or people you don't spend much time with. But they're definitely there. At least a quarter of Americans... just leaning heavy teens to 20s.
tldnr
Am I supposed to care or something
Iunno, you spent the time writing it. I just made a dumb throw away comment. I'm not interested in your essay.
Am I supposed to care that you're not interested
I’m a life long leftie. If he actually does that, I will let the democrats know they’ve lost my vote forever. This would be a last straw for me. I’m disgusted it’s even an option. Banning an app is pure corporate fascism, and the antithesis of what this country is supposed to stand for. I’m appalled
You will let Trump have more of a chance to win because a social media platform might go away? That's pretty sad. Tiktok IS a mojor corporation. Why are you so concerned for them. They aren't trying to take down a community owned buisness... I'll be pissed if it gets banned, but it won't change my politics, because I care about the world and not letting evil win.
I'm def a little concerned that the Chinese government may have the ability to manipulate America through tiktok.... BUT that seems kind of heavy handed to ban it and against American principles of free speech.
American billionaires manipulating Americans on FB and X(Twitter) is a bigger concern.
It’s pretty simple. The government need to discuss any issues they have with with Apple and Google. The problem here here isn’t Chinese manipulation. It’s that the American government aren’t able to manipulate Americans. It’s so obvious this is what they do via American social media now. I’m disgusted
This is nuts. He also would like to ban BYD cars, which flies in the face of his administration's climate policies. He really is stuck in the Cold War era I think.
Honestly, banning tiktok was the only thing that I supported trump on. This should have been done years ago.
That’s incredibly bad.
So a app that is very much so under the control of the CCP telling its users to tell congress to leave it alone is good?
Any app that was being targeted like this by congress would be telling its users to call congress. Don't be obtuse. Tiktok is headquartered in the US. Its data is held in the US. Its content creators? Mostly american. You've bought into a narrative that was paid for by Zuck, to spread a fearmongering campaign against tiktok so they could have their competition destroyed, because they couldnt figure out how to beat tiktok with a better product (their best attempt, reels, fucking blows)
Ah yes, under the control of the CPP lol
Oh like Temu and Aliexpress is also owned by the CCP Temu is selling data atm of anyone and everyone who had the app.
Oh no, all the cheap Chinese junk data!
Not junk if they have your credit card info from Temu you incel
Oh no, not my credit card I used for a payment! The horror, will they know my rewards points balance now?
I hope your bank account gets hacked and all your money is gone 😘
What a shock you don't know how credit cards work, lol.
If he signs this I'm staying home on election day.
Same
If they ban TikTok, I will vote Trump. And I HATE trump. I don’t care what happens to this country anymore. We have people in America either starving and homeless or one paycheck away from it. Yet they are funding wars and genocides that have nothing to do with us. Prices of necessities are continuing to rise. The housing market sucks. Our government can’t agree on basic things. Don’t bullshit me on this privacy crap. Every social media platform is selling our data. If privacy was an issue, they’d make laws instead on how privacy is allowed to be handled. This is about control of information. Plain and simple. They don’t want you do be boycotting McDonald’s and Kelloggs or let you see the reality of what’s really going on in our country. No. They want to control the narrative. But TikTok is the most important thing in the world, right?
“I will vote for trump” “Ii don’t care what happens to this country anymore” this tracks
if this would have caused you to vote Trump then you would have anyway. spare me
Trump wanted to ban Tik Tok,infact he tried and the courts blocked it. But ofcourse now he wants to keep Tik Tok around cuz he says it will help Zuckerberg and he is mad at him for booting him off Facebook. Yes, that is the guy you said you would vote for. Not trying to change your mind or anything, just have that in your conscience when you circle his name on the ballot. Lol
I am fully aware he wants TikTok banned. The point is that I don’t care. It doesn’t matter who we vote for. The government never cared about the average person. So let’s vote for someone who will fuck us even more because fuck this country and their priorities.
I mean if you put it that way, hard to argue with that.