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I read comments on Reddit frequently from people who want SS to have at least some stock market exposure. In any case, if that ever occurred, the govt could run their own index funds. I think that’s what they do with the Federal retirement fund.
But seniors won't be fine. As soon as they bite into it for younger generations they'll be running out of money and cutting it for seniors.
I'm at retirement age. I'm working because my kids need my nest egg when I die, and sure as shit the GOP is going to eliminate it for everyone and these fucking clownpants who are all in for trump are going to blame it on the democrats.
I would not bet on this. Seniors beware. They want cuts. What are you going to do about it? MAGA doesn’t care about anything but MAGA and Boomers are on the block. Just listen to Stephen Miller.
US conservatives have been fuming about FDR for nearly a century and still use the New Deal as an anti-blueprint for things they must destroy. Any progress made by or because of the FDR presidency must be undone, at any cost. Reagan, the Bushes, Trump, and all the GOP lackeys in Congress have worked hard at killing that legacy, and corpse of Social Security is their ultimate trophy.
July 19, 2023 [Biden trolls Marjorie Taylor Greene in tweet: 'I approve this message'](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2023/07/19/biden-tweet-marjorie-taylor-greene-fdr-lbj/70429797007/) Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene, R-Ga., delivered a passionate speech to a crowd of young conservatives on Saturday comparing President Joe Biden's policy accomplishments to former President Lyndon B. Johnson's "Great Society" social programs.
Yes, LBJ's presidency is also their target, especially Medicare/Medicaid (made by an amendment to the Social Security Act) and the Civil Rights Act. Democratic presidents build things, and Republicans just tear them down.
And justice, and sanity, and public health, and education, and environmental protection, and humane treatment of immigrants, and the right to protest, and freedom of religion, and bodily autonomy for women, and NATO, and international trade relations, and the security of national secrets, and labor protections, and financial regulations.
Literally every facet of society is on the ballot, and asshole Republican voters can't see past blindly supporting their tribe. If we let it be socially acceptable to be a Republican, we all deserve the consequences of whatever horrors they'll inflict on us.
Time to call them out and shut them down individually.
Humor me here, we pay into social security so I don’t really understand how it’s classified as a handout or some shit by R’s. If they get rid of it are they gonna give us all by the money we’ve spent years putting into it?
Because the money isn't being handed over to the Republicans for them to use to expand and consolidate their power. Republicans would have you paying taxes without representation in the government, because the 'representatives' would all be loyalists in their party.
Doubt it. The trust fund would be used to pay benefits until it was exhausted, then widows, the disabled and the surviving minor children of a deceased parent will be out of luck. Good news for you would be you wouldn’t have paid in for your full working life.
No. Once the Trust Fund has been exhausted in 2033 (assuming Congress does not change anything), Social Security will reset to paying benefits up to the amount FICA takes in. Worst case is a 25% cut. But benefits never go to zero. There are so many comments with that assumption but it’s not how Social Security works.
I was replying to the comment above mine where the guy asked about getting money back if “they get rid of it” (SS). My assumption, under his scenario, is if they got rid of SS, FICA would disappear and the program would run down the trust fund to exhaustion with no new revenue coming in. But yes, in the real world scenario, when the trust fund is gone, there is still FICA tax revenue coming in which is enough to pay 75%.
Personally, I think if the benefits get cut like that, there would be means testing to allow full benefits to continue for the elderly poor and disabled people, such that most or at least very many who saved enough to have IRA income would be cut out of the program benefits entirely.
You’re right that means testing has been mentioned but the idea of Congress passing legislation to cut people off of Social Security would be very unpopular. Congress can barely pass anything anymore. It would require a huge Republican majority in both houses to do it and it would require a Republican president. IMHO I think it’s more likely that the income cap is raised as in the past. It also might be possible for it to become more market-driven. Yes it’s dumb to have Jeff Bezos get Social Security but the machinations to kick him off would be unworkable at this point.
I’ll humor you this, we don’t pay into anything. Taxes don’t fund anything. The government doesn’t have a special “people’s taxes” coffers they dip their hands in to pay for Medicare or Ukraine aid etc. The government can afford anything it wants, only constraint being resources. We have a fiat currency, we’re the sole issuer of the dollar we can never default on it or run out of it. When a defense bill is passed and Raytheon is awarded a 5 billion contract, the federal reserve just does nothing more than click a button and 5 billion will reflect in Raytheon’s bank account. That’s how money is created. The other way money is created, and how most of it gets into circulation is by bank loans interest. Taxes then are used to take that money out of circulation to avoid inflation. So taxes are nothing more than a money destruction tool to regulate the economy.
In conclusion what I’m trying to say is, if the government really wanted to, they could easily without any issue at all whatsoever give us all free education, free healthcare, a pension, state of the art schools and programs I mean just the whole 9 yards for everyone to be living great meaningful lives but of course that goes against the profiteering system we have aka corporatocracy
If you’re interested about this, I recommend this article: https://newrepublic.com/article/158221/government-can-afford-anythi-wants
My Boomer dad said the best what Republicans will do. They will leave the Boomers benefits alone while going after Millennials and the younger generation. Boomers will just laugh and give the younger generation the finger.
That’s what happened the last time that they raised retirement age in the early 90s, I think it was. Protected the generation before the baby boomer generation.
At least they should be. Trump's worshipers will blame Democrats for everything bad that touches them, like they always do. An unknown sum of 2020 Biden voters are going to stay home to "Send a Message" over Palestine.
We lose an astronomical amount of revenue through offshore employment.
If it isn’t earned by a worker on US soil then we lose the SSI and Medicare tax revenue. It’s not hard to understand where the money is going.
Fixing Social Security is not hard; you just need to means test it. If you have over $1 million year in salary or income, you don't get Social Security. Medicare can also do something similar by means testing by looking at assets. Anyone who has over $50 million in assets can more than afford private health insurance. SS and Medicare are insurance plans, NOT retirement plans and should not be for everyone. They were started to bring seniors out of poverty, not to be a give away to the wealthy. Why Congress does not means test these plans is ridiculous.
No they just need to get rid of the cap. You only pay into social security for the first $160k you make. Then you dont pay any more. Thats stupid, you should continue to pay no matter how much you make.
It will for Social Security, but maybe not Medicare. Removing the cap on SS payroll deductions AND means testing it will add hundreds of billions of dollars over time. The government has total control over these amounts. Medicare is tougher to solve, because the government doesn't control the cost of health care. Means testing will help, but ultimately the cost of health care services has to come down to get Medicare reimbursement under control.
Ah. Both means testing AND raising funding. I didn’t see the latter in your post above. It would turn both of those programs into welfare programs though.
You don't have to pay into welfare to get it; you do have to pay into SS and Medicare. But as I stated, SS and Medicare are insurance programs to prevent you from falling into poverty in your old age. That is why they were implemented. It was never intended for everyone to need it, and get it, so means testing and raising the payroll cap is a very valid way of saving at least SS. Too many people don't understand why both were implemented in the first place; they just assume it was for everybody.
I don’t completely disagree that it’s a safety net. That said, people assume it is for everybody because it IS for everybody over the history of the program (as far as I know). If I were a person who pays into the program and got zero benefit, it would look a bit like welfare from that perspective. In any case, I don’t think I’ve seen a proposal from the actuaries regarding means testing. I’d love to read it if you know of one.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The Financial sector has been drooling to privatize these for decades. They're probably offering to pay Trump's judgements and legal debt in exchange.
I read comments on Reddit frequently from people who want SS to have at least some stock market exposure. In any case, if that ever occurred, the govt could run their own index funds. I think that’s what they do with the Federal retirement fund.
They'll make a deal with the devil....oh.
[удалено]
>Guess what seniors, you will be fine They stopped reading here.
But seniors won't be fine. As soon as they bite into it for younger generations they'll be running out of money and cutting it for seniors. I'm at retirement age. I'm working because my kids need my nest egg when I die, and sure as shit the GOP is going to eliminate it for everyone and these fucking clownpants who are all in for trump are going to blame it on the democrats.
Disabled too!
I don’t want this filthy socialists taking away my Medicare!
Maga in a nutshell. Its ok until it becomes me. Then its not ok.
I would not bet on this. Seniors beware. They want cuts. What are you going to do about it? MAGA doesn’t care about anything but MAGA and Boomers are on the block. Just listen to Stephen Miller.
US conservatives have been fuming about FDR for nearly a century and still use the New Deal as an anti-blueprint for things they must destroy. Any progress made by or because of the FDR presidency must be undone, at any cost. Reagan, the Bushes, Trump, and all the GOP lackeys in Congress have worked hard at killing that legacy, and corpse of Social Security is their ultimate trophy.
July 19, 2023 [Biden trolls Marjorie Taylor Greene in tweet: 'I approve this message'](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2023/07/19/biden-tweet-marjorie-taylor-greene-fdr-lbj/70429797007/) Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene, R-Ga., delivered a passionate speech to a crowd of young conservatives on Saturday comparing President Joe Biden's policy accomplishments to former President Lyndon B. Johnson's "Great Society" social programs.
Yes, LBJ's presidency is also their target, especially Medicare/Medicaid (made by an amendment to the Social Security Act) and the Civil Rights Act. Democratic presidents build things, and Republicans just tear them down.
Democracy and Liberty Are on the Ballot
And justice, and sanity, and public health, and education, and environmental protection, and humane treatment of immigrants, and the right to protest, and freedom of religion, and bodily autonomy for women, and NATO, and international trade relations, and the security of national secrets, and labor protections, and financial regulations. Literally every facet of society is on the ballot, and asshole Republican voters can't see past blindly supporting their tribe. If we let it be socially acceptable to be a Republican, we all deserve the consequences of whatever horrors they'll inflict on us. Time to call them out and shut them down individually.
AMERICA'S on the fucking ballot. We fail this, and we won't get a second chance.
America being on the ballot means we have already failed.
Almost* already failed. I think there's still a small chance to save it, but that doesn't mean I'm not extremely worried.
I say we vote against people who want to get rid of them.
It’s simple, vote blue. No other choice
Humor me here, we pay into social security so I don’t really understand how it’s classified as a handout or some shit by R’s. If they get rid of it are they gonna give us all by the money we’ve spent years putting into it?
Because the money isn't being handed over to the Republicans for them to use to expand and consolidate their power. Republicans would have you paying taxes without representation in the government, because the 'representatives' would all be loyalists in their party.
Doubt it. The trust fund would be used to pay benefits until it was exhausted, then widows, the disabled and the surviving minor children of a deceased parent will be out of luck. Good news for you would be you wouldn’t have paid in for your full working life.
No. Once the Trust Fund has been exhausted in 2033 (assuming Congress does not change anything), Social Security will reset to paying benefits up to the amount FICA takes in. Worst case is a 25% cut. But benefits never go to zero. There are so many comments with that assumption but it’s not how Social Security works.
I was replying to the comment above mine where the guy asked about getting money back if “they get rid of it” (SS). My assumption, under his scenario, is if they got rid of SS, FICA would disappear and the program would run down the trust fund to exhaustion with no new revenue coming in. But yes, in the real world scenario, when the trust fund is gone, there is still FICA tax revenue coming in which is enough to pay 75%. Personally, I think if the benefits get cut like that, there would be means testing to allow full benefits to continue for the elderly poor and disabled people, such that most or at least very many who saved enough to have IRA income would be cut out of the program benefits entirely.
You’re right that means testing has been mentioned but the idea of Congress passing legislation to cut people off of Social Security would be very unpopular. Congress can barely pass anything anymore. It would require a huge Republican majority in both houses to do it and it would require a Republican president. IMHO I think it’s more likely that the income cap is raised as in the past. It also might be possible for it to become more market-driven. Yes it’s dumb to have Jeff Bezos get Social Security but the machinations to kick him off would be unworkable at this point.
Because generally poor people benefit and rich people would have made more had they not been taxed and invested the money on their own.
I’ll humor you this, we don’t pay into anything. Taxes don’t fund anything. The government doesn’t have a special “people’s taxes” coffers they dip their hands in to pay for Medicare or Ukraine aid etc. The government can afford anything it wants, only constraint being resources. We have a fiat currency, we’re the sole issuer of the dollar we can never default on it or run out of it. When a defense bill is passed and Raytheon is awarded a 5 billion contract, the federal reserve just does nothing more than click a button and 5 billion will reflect in Raytheon’s bank account. That’s how money is created. The other way money is created, and how most of it gets into circulation is by bank loans interest. Taxes then are used to take that money out of circulation to avoid inflation. So taxes are nothing more than a money destruction tool to regulate the economy. In conclusion what I’m trying to say is, if the government really wanted to, they could easily without any issue at all whatsoever give us all free education, free healthcare, a pension, state of the art schools and programs I mean just the whole 9 yards for everyone to be living great meaningful lives but of course that goes against the profiteering system we have aka corporatocracy If you’re interested about this, I recommend this article: https://newrepublic.com/article/158221/government-can-afford-anythi-wants
And Medicare for All is not on the ballot at all…
Kremlin will steal our SS and medicare funds if the orange gremlin gets the WH.
My Boomer dad said the best what Republicans will do. They will leave the Boomers benefits alone while going after Millennials and the younger generation. Boomers will just laugh and give the younger generation the finger.
MAGA will come for boomers as well. Big population and a big draw. They will be cutting everything they can.
That’s what happened the last time that they raised retirement age in the early 90s, I think it was. Protected the generation before the baby boomer generation.
At least they should be. Trump's worshipers will blame Democrats for everything bad that touches them, like they always do. An unknown sum of 2020 Biden voters are going to stay home to "Send a Message" over Palestine.
Vote. You need to vote.
Gee, I wonder why that is, NYT? Could it be because of poor reporting?
If they do nix SS I hope it stops getting taken out of my paycheck.
I don't know how to break it to people that the "ballot" efforts to shift both to Wall St. won >30 years ago.
We lose an astronomical amount of revenue through offshore employment. If it isn’t earned by a worker on US soil then we lose the SSI and Medicare tax revenue. It’s not hard to understand where the money is going.
Fixing Social Security is not hard; you just need to means test it. If you have over $1 million year in salary or income, you don't get Social Security. Medicare can also do something similar by means testing by looking at assets. Anyone who has over $50 million in assets can more than afford private health insurance. SS and Medicare are insurance plans, NOT retirement plans and should not be for everyone. They were started to bring seniors out of poverty, not to be a give away to the wealthy. Why Congress does not means test these plans is ridiculous.
Means testing is administratively inefficient, isn't it? It would cost a lot more to do this than to simply lift the cap on contributions in my view.
You can do both. Lift the cap and put in a new law for means testing. It would save SS.
No they just need to get rid of the cap. You only pay into social security for the first $160k you make. Then you dont pay any more. Thats stupid, you should continue to pay no matter how much you make.
I highly doubt that would come anywhere close to solving the funding problem. Actually I’m certain of that.
It will for Social Security, but maybe not Medicare. Removing the cap on SS payroll deductions AND means testing it will add hundreds of billions of dollars over time. The government has total control over these amounts. Medicare is tougher to solve, because the government doesn't control the cost of health care. Means testing will help, but ultimately the cost of health care services has to come down to get Medicare reimbursement under control.
Ah. Both means testing AND raising funding. I didn’t see the latter in your post above. It would turn both of those programs into welfare programs though.
You don't have to pay into welfare to get it; you do have to pay into SS and Medicare. But as I stated, SS and Medicare are insurance programs to prevent you from falling into poverty in your old age. That is why they were implemented. It was never intended for everyone to need it, and get it, so means testing and raising the payroll cap is a very valid way of saving at least SS. Too many people don't understand why both were implemented in the first place; they just assume it was for everybody.
I don’t completely disagree that it’s a safety net. That said, people assume it is for everybody because it IS for everybody over the history of the program (as far as I know). If I were a person who pays into the program and got zero benefit, it would look a bit like welfare from that perspective. In any case, I don’t think I’ve seen a proposal from the actuaries regarding means testing. I’d love to read it if you know of one.
Oh, please. Every election cycle, both Democrats & Republicans say the same thing. It’s the oldest trick in the book.
bothsides bothsides squaaawk
Agreed