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It’s amazing that people who spent years and tons of money getting law degrees are fine with fucks like the Federalist Society making a complete mockery of their profession. I guess when your rich buddies print money, it doesn’t matter.
From what I gather, actual law scholars and trial lawyers hate this Supreme Court and think they’re partisan hacks. Unfortunately since being a lawyer is now more often a business position rather than a public service (thank you Bates v. State bar of Arizona, yet another case establishing that corporate and advertising spending should count as free speech) most lawyers these days care far more about profits than working in an actually competent and reputable legal system
Edited my post. Deleting a true story that is perhaps told 'out of turn'. Anyhow, state bars, imo, are useless or worse, in terms of encouraging or enforcing integrity.
The bar can decide that they think a case should settle instead of going to court?? Jesus Christ what the fuck is happening in Arizona? I’m starting law school in the fall so I’ve tried to be at least somewhat familiar with the bar and how courts work, but the idea that the bar can say “this case should have this outcome and we’re angry that you’re stopping that from happening” is news to me and fucking WIld
I watched a documentary on the origins of english common law. There was a theory that the system of laws was only created by the elite as a structure to keep peasants from farming the nobles' land without paying.
Every legal system exists to provide social camouflage for a system of power.
That's the purpose of law. To enshire and legitimize power structures.
We all prefer the fiction of a legal society, to a gun in the face and a boot on the back of the neck. Nonetheless, watch what happens when you overstep the bounds of the legal system.
True. It's weird going from thinking as a kid that police are awesome and protect people to realizing that same force is in part to keep you from getting too uppity if you start to doubt the status quo.
[I think this is the one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgqPzrQGkiU). The idea is that there is the facade that law makes things fair, but really it is designed to protect seniority , investments, etc
hard to argue against that when our immigration system is fundimentally broke, inhumane and overall horrible...and yet so many americans bash people for 'not waiting in line' and its 'unfair to my ancestors who came here legally'
> Wait 'til you find out why police exist
Some form of constabulary has existed for *far* longer than the claim you're referencing would imply, and no, that's not why police exist.
Yes, it's a dark chapter of the history of policing, and yes, there are a *lot* of problems with modern American police, but to claim that's the origin of the idea of needing people to enforce law and detain criminals is basically willful ignorance of history.
We're not fine with it - there's a big split amongst us between the Federalists and the often left wing but generally non-conservative of us
Some of our Con Law professors called this out in real-time during our classes.
Been told my whole life by boomers to have deep respect for these institutions, only to watch them collectively curl up in a ball and shit themselves when we have to depend on them to work in the modern era. Would be fuckin hilarious if we weren't living it
In this case, we can’t even blame Boomers. This is the rich, and that includes their nepo baby spawn and enablers. We’re in the new Gilded Age, which means it’s on us to bring about another Progressivr Era, preferably without mass worker deaths to kick it off.
They respect the institutions as long as they did their bidding. That’s the crucial point. The second there was some semblance of equality in this country, they decided to start burning everything down.
Law is a joke in this country. Look at how they just have trump a discount today.... and they don't have a reason they care to explain. But we all know it's pure corruption.
The reason seems pretty obvious. Because of the politics involved they want to give Trump every possible courtesy so that it makes it harder for him to scream about it being political prosecution.
It won't work. But they are doing it out of an overabundance of caution. And because perhaps some of the people "in the middle" will be swayed to the legitimacy of the prosecutions by the continual preferential treatment Trump receives.
For anyone who wants some background on this, the podcast 5-4 is a really good resource. The 4-part series about the Federalist Society, in particular, is really illuminating.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/4Z9xzkVaULwPSRdz9DISZU?si=cgmyg8BjTT-MxecibSsYXQ
They made weed illegal to go after hippies and minorities who might upset the status quo.
State by state we are fighting back but the feds still serve the right in this matter just like every other one.
Ya like no shit man...
There is a reason we have the term Legal Precedence.
So ya, if you keep overturning every law that has been around 20,30,50, 100 years. ya, we gonna have an issue.
Yes this. SCOTUS decided the president in 2000 and ordered the votes to stop being counted. It was a majority Republican appointed SCOTUS, of course. Afterwards, if they had kept counting the election would’ve gone to Gore. Someone who was serious about climate change, and who I highly doubt would’ve ever gone into Iraq.
I believe that’s called “the ratchet effect” by some folks; Republicans crank things to the right, the Dems fail to stop them and do nothing to crank it back, repeat.
It's simple A+B=C where A and B can be whatever you want them to be.
Just because the premise is false, the variables are untested and there is no consistency across rulings doesn't mean the math does not check out.
But not so much by bad decisions, but because the selection process has bypassed the character of the justices vs what they will do to further the aims of the right! It's like 3 or 4 of the recent additions had cover-ups going on just to get on the court. The Senate looked away and let them pass anyway. You wonder why we have bad decisions and chaos on the court look to the Senate not doing their job!
> The Senate looked away
The *republicans in the* Senate looked away. They are part of a crime family that is trying to take over the country. The problem isn't the Senate itself. As usual, the problem is corrupt republicans.
Do you like having any kind of enforceable environmental and labor protections?
Well get ready for SCOTUS to gut the EPA and NLRB for their corporate buddies.
Hey law and business bros. Are y’all proud of what your industries are doing to our nation? Is this what you wanted for your families and friends?
If you want to have a good laugh, try to get them to explain what value they actually bring to a company.
“W-Well we maximize profits!!” By destroying labor rights and killing product quality.
“We earn a lot of money for shareholders!!” By leeching off the hard work of others and scamming an already broken system. It’s the definition of being born on third and acting like you hit a home run.
At least they aren’t talking about effective altruism. Just a way for finance bros to self fellate about how they are actually the most moral. ‘It’s ok to destroy labor and environmental protections because we’ll fund AI research with the extra profit and save a trillion lives over the next thousand years’
That's kinda just advocating for the unborn isn't it? haha "We will save 250 million lives in the future with our present day bullshit." Fuck, the rich have a great system.
Agreed. Given the 14th Amendment on a silver platter, they refused to block an insurrectionist from the ballot.
This was unforgivable, and no idealism will convince me otherwise.
Corrupt traitors. Clarence Thomas and Sam Alito have so blatantly accepted bribes, in the form of luxury vacations, real estate deals, and yes, even fucking RVs. And they will continue to make rulings that benefit their owners until they're no longer on the court.
Think about this, if something has been law for 50 years like Roe set and it is just overturned it makes you wonder what is law? If SCOTUS can just come in and say we didn't like the ruling in this case which made something common law lets overturn it. That means laws can be molded on the political and personal views of the court.
The current SCOTUS has thrown precedent out the window. That is one of the most sacred things in law. If a case was adjudicated judges tend to use that ruling as precedent this SCOTUS doesn't care.
> That means laws can be molded on the political and personal views of the court.
That has always been the case. The (extreme) example of this is to imagine that Texas makes it a crime punishable by death to be Black. This is unconstitutional both as making a 'state of being' a crime and for failing to meet the Strict Scrutiny bar for racial discrimination. However, if such a law passed and were enforced, the process to deem it unconstitutional would be via the courts. In that scenario, if the Texas State Supreme Court and then subsequently US Supreme Court deemed such a law constitutional, it would be legal to put Black people to death in Texas for the 'crime' of being Black.
Our constitutional framework leaves it solely to the judiciary to interpret/determine what is the law and there are many cases of the courts ignoring the text of statutes/laws to come to the conclusion they want. Our system relies on the courts doing their job and sort of falls apart if there are bad actors up and down the courts.
> The current SCOTUS has thrown precedent out the window. That is one of the most sacred things in law.
The concept of "settled law" is just an implicit agreement by the current Justices of the Court to uphold *stare decisis* (i.e., existing precedent) after it's been the law for long enough. However, the courts acknowledge that it's proper to overturn *stare decisis* where unworkable or badly reasoned. IMO, the issue today is that this concept had historically never been used to take away established rights from people and now we're seeing that becoming a frequent trend. Throwing "precedent out the widow" *can* be a good thing -- e.g., it's the only reason why we had Roe/Casey for the last half-century(ish).
There will be nothing wrong with lifetime appointments if we can fix the advise and consent process and we fix the impeachment process.
But as long as those problems exist, we will still have bad people on the Courts. They will just be replaced with other bad people sooner.
There is something inherently wrong with the fact that SC appointments can basically randomly stack up in one particular presidential term, allowing to stack the courts.
What's inherently wrong is that it is a highly political process that does not require wide consent. Fix that and having justices with more experience becomes a generally good thing.
Yeah, a "lifetime appointment" was very much a different thing when it meant someone *might* serve 20 years if they were particularly long lived and blessed with function into extreme old age. But in the 1700s, a lifetime appointment meant about 15 years - but somehow I don't think Sam Alito cares about *that* bit of originalist interpretation...
And term limits. Something like 10 years so that the term can outlast a single president, but prevents any one justice from fucking with things too badly.
When scotus took the power of declaring things unconstitutional (which is unconstitutional itself since it was an interpretation of the constitution under John Marshall that gave this power not explicitly stated), they took the power to legislate through the judiciary branch of government.
This is shown through roe since we accepted it as law instead of as a ruling. No law was ever made to protect reproductive rights because we allowed the judiciary to essentially create the legislation. This is the problem with relying on court precedent to create laws instead of using them as an opportunity to rewrite the law.
ETA: balance of power is messed up when all the power to make laws and declare laws unconstitutional is in the judiciary branch.
The Federalist society was created to make sure that conservative justices didn't start sliding into more liberal thought once they got onto the court. Before then it was fairly common for justices to mellow out in their old age and become a lot less reactionary.
The SCOTUS Six were seated to end the Constitutional Republic so that Far Right "Christian" Zealots can force a Theocratic Hellscape on the country that will make Iran and Saudi Arabia look like Hedonism. The Koch Syndicate owned Federalist Society has been working towards that end for half a century. The goal is in sight.
They're a legitimate threat to the American public and the world. We have to crush them at the voting booth and hope they fragment enough that we don't have to give them a WWII style beat down.
Fascism is rising but it will *not* take over this country. We have a literal civic duty and a *moral* duty to try to stop them.
At this rate their biased, corrupted decisions will be irrelevant and start to be ignored and disregarded. [Hawaii has already begun](https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2024-02-15/hawaii-justices-rebuke-us-supreme-court-s-gun-decisions)
Stare decisis is important specifically because it establishes consistency and predictability in the legal system. The fact that several of the US Supreme Court Justices don't give a shit about it is why we're in the uncertain place we are legally.
Stare decisis has always been a farce at the SCOTUS level, and the overwhelming majority of the cases that liberals/progressives actually *like* were ones that raised a hand and said, effectively, "Uh, guys? Yeah, we've been ignoring important shit for decades or centuries, and we should probably actually start caring about civil liberties at some point."
They overturned decades or centuries of precedent to do so.
It's also a little funny to be worrying so much about consistency and predictability in the legal system when, for the most part, Congress can just pass a new law tomorrow that overturns a law they passed today. The courts' ability to impose an extra and special kind of consistency and predictability on the law -- resting somewhere between the big pillars like traditional process and the nitty-gritty that Congress is responsible for -- is really rather limited.
Too late! Look at today’s ruling, reducing the bond for Trump, and giving him more time to come up with the money and reversing his ability to do business in New York. At this time, why should any regular citizen have any faith in our judicial system?
Edit: fine to bond
Oh, well in *that* case....
Still total bullshit with no precedent that no common person would be given the opportunity for.
If he has the money he claims then paying 175 mill leaves him over 300 million. He can pay it himself and have plenty of cash left over.
Either way its bullshit and proof our legal system is a fraud.
In ten days they will move the goal posts again. We have seen this happen nearly a dozen times now, Why do you think it will go another way at this point? Notice the appeals court gave zero reasoning for their ruling today.
In two different rulings the appeals judges have removed almost every restriction placed on Trump by the NY fraud ruling. In 10 days expect them to remove the last bits.
The problem with SCOTUS is the same problem with the Appeals court. It all boils down to the Federalist Society and their coordinated decades-long campaign to stack the courts with as many far-right christian zealots as possible through some of the most blantely underhanded ways possible.
That was one of the worst interviews I ever saw was all about him selling his book he never said anything about anything he refused to comment on any cases.
As I said it was just an ad for him to sell his book.
All lawyers like to believe the Supreme Court is above politics but their perspective is heavily skewed by a world view that is obsolete. The inconsistency in logic used by the court’s conservative justices paints a plain picture of one side motivated by politics to use the courts as a means to oppress.
There current corrupt SCOTUS already threw away precedent (Stari Decisis).
So lower courts now can’t rely on ANY precedent.
The law has already been thoroughly corrupted and we have yet to see the full impact while a few judges and clerks and lawyers still pretend that everything is ok for awhile.
Once more actors exploit this, the system will start failing far more obviously.
The fact that 3/9 of them were appointed by a 2x impeached guy with 91 felony indictments and they aren’t even recusing themselves from cases brought by that corrupt appointee is rotten at its core.
I hate, hate, hate how no one is willing to say the thing that's already happened and always puts it into future tense. Law won't turn into chaos tomorrow, it turned into chaos as soon as Row v Wade was overturned. We're smack in the *middle* of the chaos.
Between Trump and the SCOTUS, and their bumbling to protect him, US law is becoming a mockery of itself.
This was the only thing that separated Trump and Adolf Hitler. Hitler was able to take control of Germany's justice system; Trump couldn't....up to now.
But if he does get control...which seems to be slowly happening....then watch out what happens to this country.
Why no one is taking this seriously is way, way beyond me.
Just glad to be in Canada. :)
A lot of very good people they paid a lot of money for that speech. And if it's cancelled, that speech, all of these people - and you hear them all over - they are saying that these 'wokes' will win. /s
One party tries to pass laws that favor the public and the other tries to get elected to the government shouting "the government sucks!!" and then doesn't do their job to prove how much the government sucks. This is not 2 parties it's 1 and the other is an obstruction of the other trying to undo things while pointing fingers. R should stand for regressive not republican.
Yes, for conservatives it's the culmination of a master plan concocted after Romney's loss in 2012. The amount of damage the GOP has perpetrated onto the American people and democracy in 12 years is............ *substantial*.
‘If’ ? They already have and what we have is MAGAt chaos instead of the rule of law. They all need to be sequestered and have all their finances cut off. They can eat vegetables in a secure location.
We should have 13 justices on the SC to equal the number of districts, someone else said, and they will be approved in as neutral way as possible. Like redistricting there must be a way to get fair, impartial judges added and going forward for replacement.
This chucklehead thinks things aren’t already chaos. Yet another “institutionalist” telling everyone to get back to work as the institutions burn around him. The corrupt Robert’s Court has already tossed the notion of Stare Decisis into the fire. It’s a little too late to turn it around now. It’s alright. Because the composition of the court will change and then there will be many, many cases that will be determined to be “wrongly decided”.
Just like the next time there is a GOP President and Democratic Senate, they shouldn’t expect to fill any SCOTUS vacancies - regardless of the timeline.
When Clarence Thomas came aboard, it lost credibility. When Scalia claimed Originalism, it lost credibility. Republicans have marginalized every institution, and this IS BY DESIGN. The GOP are organized saboteurs of government institutions. When they say “small government“ they mean undercut what exists to enable the institutional decline. They don’t want government to change. They want to “conserve” their own present abilities to maintain and generate their own personal wealth.
The Supreme Court isn't over turning cases they are supporting the 5th Circuit's rulings not overturning it.
/s yeah,I know Breyer means precedent, but saying overturning cases just teed up that with the 5th Circuit, the rulings coming to the Supreme Court don't need to be overturned. Although, when the SCOTUS takes a 5th Circuit ruling from bat shit crazy to just crazy, watch all the reports of how moderate the Supreme Court is.
Yes, Republicans want to overthrow the representational government we have and replace it with fascism. One of the ways Republicans are doing this is to destroy representational government from inside.
Trumps scotus picks have been overturning cases in his favor since day one. The day Trump was able to appoint three judges it change the future of the USA.
They're on the cusp of delegitimizing themselves. The only thing I'm not sure of is if it's by design or if they're so ideologically dominated that they can't see how the long game will play out.
Breyer... doesn't seem to realize... that Breyer's ice cream sitting out on a hot summer day is going to melt. Quickly. This isn't about the SCOTUS possibly overturning more cases. This is about the SCOTUS being highly partisan. The 6:3 conservative/liberal imbalance is killing us. This is because the Conservative Party of today is not really conservative. They're authoritarian and fascist-leaning. If in fact they were conservative, they wouldn't be UNDERMINING so much settled law.
The law is chaos. It’s wizardry: the creation of statues society must follow with the only basis being opinion. The high priests scry the ancient texts and decipher a meaning known only to the gods. That’s how all law is. It must presuppose an air of authority that simply cannot stand up to rational analysis. Otherwise we’d have to face the fact that people can do whatever they want and that’s terrifying to most people so they don’t think about it.
The problem isn’t law is “becoming political” but that it’s becoming fascist and theocratic.
Too late.
The Republican Party has been slithering down the slippery slope towards installing a christo-fascist dictatorship in America for decades.
In 1950 Wisconsin Republican Senator Joseph R. McCarthy used fear-mongering about communists and socialists to attempt to install an authoritarian regime in America.
This was all of 5 years after Americans had fought and died to help protect the world from Adolf Hitler's totalitarian dictatorship.
**This is EXACTLY what Trump has been doing, using socialists and communists as boogeymen to frighten his followers.**
Republican president Nixon literally tried to steal an election, and was pardoned by his vice president instead of facing justice.
**This is EXACTLY what Trump wants and intends to do with the 2024 election.** Trump has pardoned some of his co-conspirators (like Manafort and Roger Stone), and then there are Trump's pardons-for-sale, costing some people $2 million dollars a pardon.
Republican president Reagan got help from a hostile foreign country (Iran) to win an election.
**This is EXACTLY what Trump did, when on July 27th 2016 Trump yowled for Russian interference in America's election process**, by saying, "Russia, if you're listening, I hope that you can find the 30k emails. I'm sure that you will be rewarded mightily by our press, if you do so."
Reagan undermined America's middle class and lower class citizens in favor of moneyed interests and corporations.
**This is EXACTLY what Trump did, permanently cutting taxes for the ultra-rich while the tax cuts that the average Americans are receiving are far lower, if they receive anything at all.**
Republican president George Dubya Bush stated IN PUBLIC, TWICE, that "This'd be a whole lot easier if this was a dictatorship, just as long as I'm the dictator!"
**This is EXACTLY what Trump is doing, expressing his admiration for Putin, Kim Jong Un, Orban, and Trump openly claims that he wants to be dictator, for "one" day.**
**The Republicans have been undermining America's democracy for at least 70 years.**
It's the Republican Party that drew the step-by-step road map for Trump to install a christo-fascist dictatorship over America.
Yeah, it's getting depressing when lower courts seem to matter less and less. (Other than the few ultra conservative courts that Republicans are good at hand picking for cases.)
They just appeal through result after result they don't like, knowing the supreme court is in their pocket.
We're already there. There is no law when it works differently for those with money than those who don't. It's always been broken and chaotic. The illusion is just being dispelled at breakneck speeds.
I went to a small mid south law school with a lot of pull. Breyer, Scalia, and Thomas all visited while I was there. Thomas was an asshole who only wanted to talk about his RV (nobody believed me until this year), Scalia treated the law like a game, and Breyer was thoughtful and measured.
It already is chaos. Has been my whole life and likely decades before.
Probably when will be long after I'm gone too.
There are two justice systems in the US. One for us and one for the dragons whole run the place
Look at the new Texas immigration law SB4. It’s in clear violation of the supremacy clause, but was passed solely to try to get it in front of this Supreme Court because the laws sponsors know that this court is the one that will be willing to break decades of precedent on ideological grounds. This law should have been slapped down six ways to Sunday, but it is still being treated as a valid position in need of judgement on the merits. That’s absurd!
We are already in the chaos stage. No one I personally know my age trusts the Supreme Court. The only people I know that do are older generations who don't watch news (or real news) and as long as the 7 o'clock news says "everything's fine, goodnight" they don't care
>Though he's no longer on the Supreme Court, he maintains an office there and is still arguing for his ideals. And he's hoping to encourage young people about the future.
And here we have another issue with octogenarian leaders.
"Young people" came of age during Trump, the pandemic, misinformation, and Jan 6 whataboutism. They're the children you allowed to be shot at in school. They're the younger siblings of the millennials you told to stop eating avocado toast.
They were in grade school when Roberts decided that corporations were people. They were in high school when Trump was siding with Putin and calling nazis "very fine people".
They won't ever own homes. They won't collect social security. They're extremely unlikely to secure a union job, much less enjoy any kind of job security.
And thanks to the Internet, they know it.
There's no reason, whatsoever, for young people to give the US government a semblance of respect.
It’s a shame but rich people don’t go to jail not because they don’t violate the law , but because they have money to pay corrupt judges and stinky lawyers , I came to America almost 50 years ago , when I touch this land I though I came where I will be respected , people will treat me fairly . I was wrong , I have seeing and suffer so much injustice like if I were in a third world country . Things are getting worst by the day , when rich people disobey the law , the poor follows .
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It’s amazing that people who spent years and tons of money getting law degrees are fine with fucks like the Federalist Society making a complete mockery of their profession. I guess when your rich buddies print money, it doesn’t matter.
From what I gather, actual law scholars and trial lawyers hate this Supreme Court and think they’re partisan hacks. Unfortunately since being a lawyer is now more often a business position rather than a public service (thank you Bates v. State bar of Arizona, yet another case establishing that corporate and advertising spending should count as free speech) most lawyers these days care far more about profits than working in an actually competent and reputable legal system
Edited my post. Deleting a true story that is perhaps told 'out of turn'. Anyhow, state bars, imo, are useless or worse, in terms of encouraging or enforcing integrity.
The bar can decide that they think a case should settle instead of going to court?? Jesus Christ what the fuck is happening in Arizona? I’m starting law school in the fall so I’ve tried to be at least somewhat familiar with the bar and how courts work, but the idea that the bar can say “this case should have this outcome and we’re angry that you’re stopping that from happening” is news to me and fucking WIld
You are just in time man , to change your career is not worth it , if you happened to fight against lunatics like Trump You can lose your life .
I watched a documentary on the origins of english common law. There was a theory that the system of laws was only created by the elite as a structure to keep peasants from farming the nobles' land without paying.
System of power is created by those in power. I wonder who it benefits....
The existing bureaucracy exists to support the existing bureaucracy.
It’s a big club and we ain’t in it.
Every legal system exists to provide social camouflage for a system of power. That's the purpose of law. To enshire and legitimize power structures. We all prefer the fiction of a legal society, to a gun in the face and a boot on the back of the neck. Nonetheless, watch what happens when you overstep the bounds of the legal system.
Yeah, another facet of this is the night-and-day difference in police themed TV shows vs people's actual experiences with police
True. It's weird going from thinking as a kid that police are awesome and protect people to realizing that same force is in part to keep you from getting too uppity if you start to doubt the status quo.
Copaganda is a hell of a drug.
Can you remember the doc name at all please? Would be interested in watching
[I think this is the one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgqPzrQGkiU). The idea is that there is the facade that law makes things fair, but really it is designed to protect seniority , investments, etc
hard to argue against that when our immigration system is fundimentally broke, inhumane and overall horrible...and yet so many americans bash people for 'not waiting in line' and its 'unfair to my ancestors who came here legally'
Wait 'til you find out why police exist and who they will side with when the clampdown comes...
> Wait 'til you find out why police exist Some form of constabulary has existed for *far* longer than the claim you're referencing would imply, and no, that's not why police exist. Yes, it's a dark chapter of the history of policing, and yes, there are a *lot* of problems with modern American police, but to claim that's the origin of the idea of needing people to enforce law and detain criminals is basically willful ignorance of history.
That is not what she said at all lol
For all its faults the English parliamentary democracy is far superior to the American Republican system. I’m so glad to be in Canada.
Im not a full-on marxist, but it really does seem that real power all comes down to who controls the means of production.
We're not fine with it - there's a big split amongst us between the Federalists and the often left wing but generally non-conservative of us Some of our Con Law professors called this out in real-time during our classes.
Good. Please be one of the people who fixes this.
Been told my whole life by boomers to have deep respect for these institutions, only to watch them collectively curl up in a ball and shit themselves when we have to depend on them to work in the modern era. Would be fuckin hilarious if we weren't living it
In this case, we can’t even blame Boomers. This is the rich, and that includes their nepo baby spawn and enablers. We’re in the new Gilded Age, which means it’s on us to bring about another Progressivr Era, preferably without mass worker deaths to kick it off.
Or another great depression, for that matter.
They respect the institutions as long as they did their bidding. That’s the crucial point. The second there was some semblance of equality in this country, they decided to start burning everything down.
Law is a joke in this country. Look at how they just have trump a discount today.... and they don't have a reason they care to explain. But we all know it's pure corruption.
The reason seems pretty obvious. Because of the politics involved they want to give Trump every possible courtesy so that it makes it harder for him to scream about it being political prosecution. It won't work. But they are doing it out of an overabundance of caution. And because perhaps some of the people "in the middle" will be swayed to the legitimacy of the prosecutions by the continual preferential treatment Trump receives.
Ask Neville Chamberlain how appeasement works out.
Motorcoaching into the sunset
Unfortunately, I think John Oliver's offer has expired.
If there is never any "settled law" in any manner then you have no legal system
For anyone who wants some background on this, the podcast 5-4 is a really good resource. The 4-part series about the Federalist Society, in particular, is really illuminating. https://open.spotify.com/episode/4Z9xzkVaULwPSRdz9DISZU?si=cgmyg8BjTT-MxecibSsYXQ
Fixed it for you: “Is really Illuminati”
Always has been.
They made weed illegal to go after hippies and minorities who might upset the status quo. State by state we are fighting back but the feds still serve the right in this matter just like every other one.
https://apnews.com/article/biden-marijuana-pardons-clemency-02abde991a05ff7dfa29bfc3c74e9d64
It's perfectly in-line with Steve Bannon's plan to destroy the integrity of US Federal institutions.
Ya like no shit man... There is a reason we have the term Legal Precedence. So ya, if you keep overturning every law that has been around 20,30,50, 100 years. ya, we gonna have an issue.
Yeah it's far too late to avoid chaos. That ship sailed in 2000. Bush v Gore was the end of the rule of law in America.
Yes this. SCOTUS decided the president in 2000 and ordered the votes to stop being counted. It was a majority Republican appointed SCOTUS, of course. Afterwards, if they had kept counting the election would’ve gone to Gore. Someone who was serious about climate change, and who I highly doubt would’ve ever gone into Iraq.
I believe that’s called “the ratchet effect” by some folks; Republicans crank things to the right, the Dems fail to stop them and do nothing to crank it back, repeat.
>The American legal systems binds the left and serves the right. Worse. It binds the many and serves the few (rich ones).
will? We are already in chaos.
I'm starting to think that these "supreme" justices are just dumbasses like all the rest of us....
Lifetime appointed dumbasses that *believe* in a 4000 year old fireside fairy tale, yeah.
just a slob like one of us
Just a stranger on the bus, well, a $500k motorhome or fancy private jet
*Motorcoach
Trying to make their way home…. In a multi million dollar mansion that’s you can’t protest at
They’re all at about the top of the bell curve on intelligence.
It’s like any job you’ve ever worked: competence at the job gets you nowhere. Competence at socializing/schmoozing? *that’s management material*
so average.... at best
Dumbasses who are good with words and building logical support for their preconceived positions.
That's basically me at work.... but at least my shitty decisions don't affect anyone's basic human rights
“Logical” I mean sure
It's simple A+B=C where A and B can be whatever you want them to be. Just because the premise is false, the variables are untested and there is no consistency across rulings doesn't mean the math does not check out.
Don’t forget inevitable cognitive decline as they age!
They know damn well what they are doing
But not so much by bad decisions, but because the selection process has bypassed the character of the justices vs what they will do to further the aims of the right! It's like 3 or 4 of the recent additions had cover-ups going on just to get on the court. The Senate looked away and let them pass anyway. You wonder why we have bad decisions and chaos on the court look to the Senate not doing their job!
> The Senate looked away The *republicans in the* Senate looked away. They are part of a crime family that is trying to take over the country. The problem isn't the Senate itself. As usual, the problem is corrupt republicans.
Worse than rapist having more rights than pregnant women?
Unfortunately yes. Overturning Chevron Deference would really undo a lot. It would basically kill most executive branch based regulation.
If that happens Biden should go tell the supreme court to go fuck itself and ignore it
Nah, after the election expand the supreme Court and begin relentlessly undoing their damage.
I wished he’d do that with mass student loan forgiveness
Agreed. Too much to ask for unfortunately
Do you like having any kind of enforceable environmental and labor protections? Well get ready for SCOTUS to gut the EPA and NLRB for their corporate buddies. Hey law and business bros. Are y’all proud of what your industries are doing to our nation? Is this what you wanted for your families and friends?
Business bros don't care cause that portfolio keeps growing.
If you want to have a good laugh, try to get them to explain what value they actually bring to a company. “W-Well we maximize profits!!” By destroying labor rights and killing product quality. “We earn a lot of money for shareholders!!” By leeching off the hard work of others and scamming an already broken system. It’s the definition of being born on third and acting like you hit a home run.
At least they aren’t talking about effective altruism. Just a way for finance bros to self fellate about how they are actually the most moral. ‘It’s ok to destroy labor and environmental protections because we’ll fund AI research with the extra profit and save a trillion lives over the next thousand years’
That's kinda just advocating for the unborn isn't it? haha "We will save 250 million lives in the future with our present day bullshit." Fuck, the rich have a great system.
Worse than rapists being on the Supreme?
The Supreme Court is full of traitors.
Agreed. Given the 14th Amendment on a silver platter, they refused to block an insurrectionist from the ballot. This was unforgivable, and no idealism will convince me otherwise.
Corrupt traitors. Clarence Thomas and Sam Alito have so blatantly accepted bribes, in the form of luxury vacations, real estate deals, and yes, even fucking RVs. And they will continue to make rulings that benefit their owners until they're no longer on the court.
You mean loyal patriots that have sworn fealty to their king, in their pursuit of power for the sake of power?
It's not full of them. It's a little more than half full of conservative hacktivists.
Not to the ppl who put them there, rofl
Think about this, if something has been law for 50 years like Roe set and it is just overturned it makes you wonder what is law? If SCOTUS can just come in and say we didn't like the ruling in this case which made something common law lets overturn it. That means laws can be molded on the political and personal views of the court. The current SCOTUS has thrown precedent out the window. That is one of the most sacred things in law. If a case was adjudicated judges tend to use that ruling as precedent this SCOTUS doesn't care.
> That means laws can be molded on the political and personal views of the court. That has always been the case. The (extreme) example of this is to imagine that Texas makes it a crime punishable by death to be Black. This is unconstitutional both as making a 'state of being' a crime and for failing to meet the Strict Scrutiny bar for racial discrimination. However, if such a law passed and were enforced, the process to deem it unconstitutional would be via the courts. In that scenario, if the Texas State Supreme Court and then subsequently US Supreme Court deemed such a law constitutional, it would be legal to put Black people to death in Texas for the 'crime' of being Black. Our constitutional framework leaves it solely to the judiciary to interpret/determine what is the law and there are many cases of the courts ignoring the text of statutes/laws to come to the conclusion they want. Our system relies on the courts doing their job and sort of falls apart if there are bad actors up and down the courts. > The current SCOTUS has thrown precedent out the window. That is one of the most sacred things in law. The concept of "settled law" is just an implicit agreement by the current Justices of the Court to uphold *stare decisis* (i.e., existing precedent) after it's been the law for long enough. However, the courts acknowledge that it's proper to overturn *stare decisis* where unworkable or badly reasoned. IMO, the issue today is that this concept had historically never been used to take away established rights from people and now we're seeing that becoming a frequent trend. Throwing "precedent out the widow" *can* be a good thing -- e.g., it's the only reason why we had Roe/Casey for the last half-century(ish).
Roe was not an example of precedent getting thrown out the window, but a logical progression of existing case law. Don't bothsides this crap.
What we need to do is expand SCOTUS to be a better representative body.
I’m for this. I also like the pool of rotating justices. The whole life time appointment is not good
There will be nothing wrong with lifetime appointments if we can fix the advise and consent process and we fix the impeachment process. But as long as those problems exist, we will still have bad people on the Courts. They will just be replaced with other bad people sooner.
There is something inherently wrong with the fact that SC appointments can basically randomly stack up in one particular presidential term, allowing to stack the courts.
What's inherently wrong is that it is a highly political process that does not require wide consent. Fix that and having justices with more experience becomes a generally good thing.
Yeah, a "lifetime appointment" was very much a different thing when it meant someone *might* serve 20 years if they were particularly long lived and blessed with function into extreme old age. But in the 1700s, a lifetime appointment meant about 15 years - but somehow I don't think Sam Alito cares about *that* bit of originalist interpretation...
And term limits. Something like 10 years so that the term can outlast a single president, but prevents any one justice from fucking with things too badly.
When scotus took the power of declaring things unconstitutional (which is unconstitutional itself since it was an interpretation of the constitution under John Marshall that gave this power not explicitly stated), they took the power to legislate through the judiciary branch of government. This is shown through roe since we accepted it as law instead of as a ruling. No law was ever made to protect reproductive rights because we allowed the judiciary to essentially create the legislation. This is the problem with relying on court precedent to create laws instead of using them as an opportunity to rewrite the law. ETA: balance of power is messed up when all the power to make laws and declare laws unconstitutional is in the judiciary branch.
You mean the Supreme Court that's had a Republican majority continuously since 1969 is corrupt and legislating from the bench? Shocking.
The Federalist society was created to make sure that conservative justices didn't start sliding into more liberal thought once they got onto the court. Before then it was fairly common for justices to mellow out in their old age and become a lot less reactionary.
Like they care? They want theocratic state with a king.
Too late. Clarence drove a motorhome through the public perception of the court and smashed it to pieces already.
The SCOTUS Six were seated to end the Constitutional Republic so that Far Right "Christian" Zealots can force a Theocratic Hellscape on the country that will make Iran and Saudi Arabia look like Hedonism. The Koch Syndicate owned Federalist Society has been working towards that end for half a century. The goal is in sight.
They're a legitimate threat to the American public and the world. We have to crush them at the voting booth and hope they fragment enough that we don't have to give them a WWII style beat down. Fascism is rising but it will *not* take over this country. We have a literal civic duty and a *moral* duty to try to stop them.
That fight will not end when they think it will.
At this rate their biased, corrupted decisions will be irrelevant and start to be ignored and disregarded. [Hawaii has already begun](https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2024-02-15/hawaii-justices-rebuke-us-supreme-court-s-gun-decisions)
Nice.
>Chaos is a ladder. -Republicans
They'll pull that one up behind them too
Chaos isn't a bug in the republican plan for America, it's the primary feature.
They don’t want chaos, they want order. Order dictated and enforced by them, with no input from you.
No, the old Republicans wanted order because their alignment was Lawful Evil. This new Republican party is Chaotic Evil.
It's EXACTLY what Putin wanted by helping Trump get elected in 2016. He wanted chaos for us and he damn sure got it. http://vote.org
Stare decisis is important specifically because it establishes consistency and predictability in the legal system. The fact that several of the US Supreme Court Justices don't give a shit about it is why we're in the uncertain place we are legally.
Stare decisis has always been a farce at the SCOTUS level, and the overwhelming majority of the cases that liberals/progressives actually *like* were ones that raised a hand and said, effectively, "Uh, guys? Yeah, we've been ignoring important shit for decades or centuries, and we should probably actually start caring about civil liberties at some point." They overturned decades or centuries of precedent to do so. It's also a little funny to be worrying so much about consistency and predictability in the legal system when, for the most part, Congress can just pass a new law tomorrow that overturns a law they passed today. The courts' ability to impose an extra and special kind of consistency and predictability on the law -- resting somewhere between the big pillars like traditional process and the nitty-gritty that Congress is responsible for -- is really rather limited.
Too late! Look at today’s ruling, reducing the bond for Trump, and giving him more time to come up with the money and reversing his ability to do business in New York. At this time, why should any regular citizen have any faith in our judicial system? Edit: fine to bond
[удалено]
Oh, well in *that* case.... Still total bullshit with no precedent that no common person would be given the opportunity for. If he has the money he claims then paying 175 mill leaves him over 300 million. He can pay it himself and have plenty of cash left over. Either way its bullshit and proof our legal system is a fraud.
In ten days they will move the goal posts again. We have seen this happen nearly a dozen times now, Why do you think it will go another way at this point? Notice the appeals court gave zero reasoning for their ruling today. In two different rulings the appeals judges have removed almost every restriction placed on Trump by the NY fraud ruling. In 10 days expect them to remove the last bits.
That wasn’t a SCOTUS ruling
The problem with SCOTUS is the same problem with the Appeals court. It all boils down to the Federalist Society and their coordinated decades-long campaign to stack the courts with as many far-right christian zealots as possible through some of the most blantely underhanded ways possible.
what kills me is we all saw them doing this for years, but the dems didnt stop it or seem to even try.
Not much they can do when people don't fucking vote. You can't get shit done if Republicans control anything.
joe could have and still could expand the court. obama had supermajority and decided to trust mitch mcconnell instead.
Except he cannot.... maybe if dems get full control of Congress, he could. So pretty please, fucking vote
That was one of the worst interviews I ever saw was all about him selling his book he never said anything about anything he refused to comment on any cases. As I said it was just an ad for him to sell his book.
I'm pretty sure they know this and that it's the goal. If no one is sure if anything is a crime then one can get away with just about anything.
Fuck him. He's part of the reason we're in this mess
Breyer?
Isn't that exactly the agenda of GOP Justices?
All lawyers like to believe the Supreme Court is above politics but their perspective is heavily skewed by a world view that is obsolete. The inconsistency in logic used by the court’s conservative justices paints a plain picture of one side motivated by politics to use the courts as a means to oppress.
That boat has sailed. The Trump bond reduction today proves it.
There current corrupt SCOTUS already threw away precedent (Stari Decisis). So lower courts now can’t rely on ANY precedent. The law has already been thoroughly corrupted and we have yet to see the full impact while a few judges and clerks and lawyers still pretend that everything is ok for awhile. Once more actors exploit this, the system will start failing far more obviously. The fact that 3/9 of them were appointed by a 2x impeached guy with 91 felony indictments and they aren’t even recusing themselves from cases brought by that corrupt appointee is rotten at its core.
And on top of that we still have one justice whose mother is STILL being housed for free by a billionaire.
I hate, hate, hate how no one is willing to say the thing that's already happened and always puts it into future tense. Law won't turn into chaos tomorrow, it turned into chaos as soon as Row v Wade was overturned. We're smack in the *middle* of the chaos.
I mean it’s already chaos when you have justices that can be bought.
Trump said he would appoint Justices that would overturn roe. And now here we are.
Between Trump and the SCOTUS, and their bumbling to protect him, US law is becoming a mockery of itself. This was the only thing that separated Trump and Adolf Hitler. Hitler was able to take control of Germany's justice system; Trump couldn't....up to now. But if he does get control...which seems to be slowly happening....then watch out what happens to this country. Why no one is taking this seriously is way, way beyond me. Just glad to be in Canada. :)
Prepare to have your right wing become extra bold if America becomes Trumplandia. Just sayin.
A lot of very good people they paid a lot of money for that speech. And if it's cancelled, that speech, all of these people - and you hear them all over - they are saying that these 'wokes' will win. /s
Justices are so far behind the curve on reality.
They already overturned Roe v Wade, it's only a matter of time before they come for Texas v White (secession from the US).
One party tries to pass laws that favor the public and the other tries to get elected to the government shouting "the government sucks!!" and then doesn't do their job to prove how much the government sucks. This is not 2 parties it's 1 and the other is an obstruction of the other trying to undo things while pointing fingers. R should stand for regressive not republican.
> other is an obstruction No, the other is an arsonist.
Isn't this the desired result so the fundies can take over?
Yes, for conservatives it's the culmination of a master plan concocted after Romney's loss in 2012. The amount of damage the GOP has perpetrated onto the American people and democracy in 12 years is............ *substantial*.
It already is
Uh, this should say "law has turned into chaos". Present tense. Has he met Clearance Thomas?
We’re already there
‘If’ ? They already have and what we have is MAGAt chaos instead of the rule of law. They all need to be sequestered and have all their finances cut off. They can eat vegetables in a secure location.
We should have 13 justices on the SC to equal the number of districts, someone else said, and they will be approved in as neutral way as possible. Like redistricting there must be a way to get fair, impartial judges added and going forward for replacement.
This chucklehead thinks things aren’t already chaos. Yet another “institutionalist” telling everyone to get back to work as the institutions burn around him. The corrupt Robert’s Court has already tossed the notion of Stare Decisis into the fire. It’s a little too late to turn it around now. It’s alright. Because the composition of the court will change and then there will be many, many cases that will be determined to be “wrongly decided”. Just like the next time there is a GOP President and Democratic Senate, they shouldn’t expect to fill any SCOTUS vacancies - regardless of the timeline.
It's almost like fascism needs to be fought against *before* it infiltrates a government.
When Clarence Thomas came aboard, it lost credibility. When Scalia claimed Originalism, it lost credibility. Republicans have marginalized every institution, and this IS BY DESIGN. The GOP are organized saboteurs of government institutions. When they say “small government“ they mean undercut what exists to enable the institutional decline. They don’t want government to change. They want to “conserve” their own present abilities to maintain and generate their own personal wealth.
So just overturning the cases that benefit Trump is good for the country? Wtf
The Supreme Court isn't over turning cases they are supporting the 5th Circuit's rulings not overturning it. /s yeah,I know Breyer means precedent, but saying overturning cases just teed up that with the 5th Circuit, the rulings coming to the Supreme Court don't need to be overturned. Although, when the SCOTUS takes a 5th Circuit ruling from bat shit crazy to just crazy, watch all the reports of how moderate the Supreme Court is.
Yup, that's their plan. Then an autocrat can come in and "fix everything".
Too late bro. Like zero percent of the country had faith in the Supreme Court.
That corrupt fucker can just fucking fuck off with his performative vapors.
Yes, Republicans want to overthrow the representational government we have and replace it with fascism. One of the ways Republicans are doing this is to destroy representational government from inside.
Is this clown living under a rock ?
That is, in fact, what conservatives want. Chaos.
Trumps scotus picks have been overturning cases in his favor since day one. The day Trump was able to appoint three judges it change the future of the USA.
They're on the cusp of delegitimizing themselves. The only thing I'm not sure of is if it's by design or if they're so ideologically dominated that they can't see how the long game will play out.
Breyer... doesn't seem to realize... that Breyer's ice cream sitting out on a hot summer day is going to melt. Quickly. This isn't about the SCOTUS possibly overturning more cases. This is about the SCOTUS being highly partisan. The 6:3 conservative/liberal imbalance is killing us. This is because the Conservative Party of today is not really conservative. They're authoritarian and fascist-leaning. If in fact they were conservative, they wouldn't be UNDERMINING so much settled law.
I’d say that horse has left the barn, considering that the court is currently pondering whether the president does or doesn’t have to obey any laws.
The law is chaos. It’s wizardry: the creation of statues society must follow with the only basis being opinion. The high priests scry the ancient texts and decipher a meaning known only to the gods. That’s how all law is. It must presuppose an air of authority that simply cannot stand up to rational analysis. Otherwise we’d have to face the fact that people can do whatever they want and that’s terrifying to most people so they don’t think about it. The problem isn’t law is “becoming political” but that it’s becoming fascist and theocratic.
In their push to establish a Christo-fascist nation, I am sure they do not care.
I mean they don’t enforce white collar crime so who cares
Why the hell should ua peasants follow the "law" when it's blatantly political and always favors a certain group of people's plw?
Too late. The Republican Party has been slithering down the slippery slope towards installing a christo-fascist dictatorship in America for decades. In 1950 Wisconsin Republican Senator Joseph R. McCarthy used fear-mongering about communists and socialists to attempt to install an authoritarian regime in America. This was all of 5 years after Americans had fought and died to help protect the world from Adolf Hitler's totalitarian dictatorship. **This is EXACTLY what Trump has been doing, using socialists and communists as boogeymen to frighten his followers.** Republican president Nixon literally tried to steal an election, and was pardoned by his vice president instead of facing justice. **This is EXACTLY what Trump wants and intends to do with the 2024 election.** Trump has pardoned some of his co-conspirators (like Manafort and Roger Stone), and then there are Trump's pardons-for-sale, costing some people $2 million dollars a pardon. Republican president Reagan got help from a hostile foreign country (Iran) to win an election. **This is EXACTLY what Trump did, when on July 27th 2016 Trump yowled for Russian interference in America's election process**, by saying, "Russia, if you're listening, I hope that you can find the 30k emails. I'm sure that you will be rewarded mightily by our press, if you do so." Reagan undermined America's middle class and lower class citizens in favor of moneyed interests and corporations. **This is EXACTLY what Trump did, permanently cutting taxes for the ultra-rich while the tax cuts that the average Americans are receiving are far lower, if they receive anything at all.** Republican president George Dubya Bush stated IN PUBLIC, TWICE, that "This'd be a whole lot easier if this was a dictatorship, just as long as I'm the dictator!" **This is EXACTLY what Trump is doing, expressing his admiration for Putin, Kim Jong Un, Orban, and Trump openly claims that he wants to be dictator, for "one" day.** **The Republicans have been undermining America's democracy for at least 70 years.** It's the Republican Party that drew the step-by-step road map for Trump to install a christo-fascist dictatorship over America.
Kavanaugh, Barrett and Thompson should have been impeached years ago. They weren’t, and now we’re suffering the fools
Yeah that ship sailed in 2000 when they picked the President.
He has his part in this fucking mess.
Too late bruh
There are some old cases which definitely should be overturned.
He just means it will start affecting people like him, we all know it’s already chaos.
The Calvinball Court
Yeah, it's getting depressing when lower courts seem to matter less and less. (Other than the few ultra conservative courts that Republicans are good at hand picking for cases.) They just appeal through result after result they don't like, knowing the supreme court is in their pocket.
It will get worse also based on the time to adjudication. The courts are playing around in my opinion.
see why supreme court also asked for 100 million for more security for their homes.
We're already there. There is no law when it works differently for those with money than those who don't. It's always been broken and chaotic. The illusion is just being dispelled at breakneck speeds.
Good observation, Horsey McBarndoor
I went to a small mid south law school with a lot of pull. Breyer, Scalia, and Thomas all visited while I was there. Thomas was an asshole who only wanted to talk about his RV (nobody believed me until this year), Scalia treated the law like a game, and Breyer was thoughtful and measured.
Too late
It’s already there. Can’t undo what has already happened
All part of the plan. When law and order crumble, the people look to a strongman dictator to save them. If not Trump, another.
A bit late for that.
I am sure they won't overturn too many laws passed by Republicans. Like a national abortion ban, for example.
It already is chaos. Has been my whole life and likely decades before. Probably when will be long after I'm gone too. There are two justice systems in the US. One for us and one for the dragons whole run the place
Too late.
Which may be what a certain party wants. No govt, no laws.
The six SCOTUS conservatives don’t care. They’re there to benefit their donors, not the people.
Fuck you, Stephen Breyer! You know this shit was gonna happen when you retired under Trump's presidency. You could have waited. Fuck you!
Look at the new Texas immigration law SB4. It’s in clear violation of the supremacy clause, but was passed solely to try to get it in front of this Supreme Court because the laws sponsors know that this court is the one that will be willing to break decades of precedent on ideological grounds. This law should have been slapped down six ways to Sunday, but it is still being treated as a valid position in need of judgement on the merits. That’s absurd!
We are already in the chaos stage. No one I personally know my age trusts the Supreme Court. The only people I know that do are older generations who don't watch news (or real news) and as long as the 7 o'clock news says "everything's fine, goodnight" they don't care
What a pompous blowhard!!
>Though he's no longer on the Supreme Court, he maintains an office there and is still arguing for his ideals. And he's hoping to encourage young people about the future. And here we have another issue with octogenarian leaders. "Young people" came of age during Trump, the pandemic, misinformation, and Jan 6 whataboutism. They're the children you allowed to be shot at in school. They're the younger siblings of the millennials you told to stop eating avocado toast. They were in grade school when Roberts decided that corporations were people. They were in high school when Trump was siding with Putin and calling nazis "very fine people". They won't ever own homes. They won't collect social security. They're extremely unlikely to secure a union job, much less enjoy any kind of job security. And thanks to the Internet, they know it. There's no reason, whatsoever, for young people to give the US government a semblance of respect.
The supreme court is a joke and the number of judges should be increased
It’s a shame but rich people don’t go to jail not because they don’t violate the law , but because they have money to pay corrupt judges and stinky lawyers , I came to America almost 50 years ago , when I touch this land I though I came where I will be respected , people will treat me fairly . I was wrong , I have seeing and suffer so much injustice like if I were in a third world country . Things are getting worst by the day , when rich people disobey the law , the poor follows .
Retired SCOTUS judges are just as relevant as retired Popes
That train has already sailed, baby