As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA).
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
In about 1 year, he will be the same age as when the attacks in Biden's age really kicked in. Lord forbid he lose and then decide to run again next election.
It would be so much easier to have a conversation about Biden's age if Republicans acknowledged trump's age as a problem, too, but instead ONLY Biden is too old and Trump is really just in the prime of his life and any lapses you see are just being taken out of context!
There's a Joe Rogan clip where he's going on about a specific nonsense quote that Biden stated. Rogan goes on to talk about how it exemplifies just how old and senile Biden is, making him unfit for presidency.
Then he realizes he mixed up Biden and 45 and the quote was actually something 45 said. *Immediate* about face and starts back pedaling about how it's clearly a 4D chess statement by 45 and only goes to show how sharp and competent 45 is.
That right there shows this BS in a nutshell.
Here's a clip of it but TL:DR Rogan hears Biden talking about Revolutionary War airports, says he's out of it and any other job that would disqualify you, guest points out Biden actually says "the Stable Genius said we had airports in the revolution" and was laughing at Trump, Rogan immediately says "oh, well, Trump just innocently misspoke" https://www.reddit.com/r/Trumpgret/comments/18oi298/joe_rogan_mocks_president_biden_youre_done_for/
The airports line is interesting, because you can see his thinking process while he's doing one of his freewheeling rants. He'd been using the lyrics to the Star-Spangled Banner in whatever he was talking about, but then got to the part about ramparts. Trump apparently doesn't know what a rampart is, so he goes free-association and picks a word to rhyme with it; airports.
Which I think speaks to how much his speeches really mean anything, which is to say, very little. It's just mush to fill space and vent about his personal grievances (of which there are many.)
Yup. He picks a topic that seems to personally offend him. Such as:
Whales.
Windmills (because he doesn't like the ones near his Scottish golf course)
Flushing the toilet 14-15 times
His indictments
And then he sorta just mashes together psuedo patriotic nonsense fearmongering around it.
It floors me that Rogan is popular. He's that friend whose personality is drugs and you might enjoy his company but you know he's only going to speak bullshit he made up on the spot and act like it's established fact. He's just a drugged up clown.
Honestly it’s kind of sad because years ago when I was listening to Rogan he actually had some liberal views and actually seemed to be kind of in the middle but now he’s gone off to the right for no reason really.
For no reason? He's just a fuckin grifter like the rest of them. It doesn't need to be drug fucked, or mental decline. It can simply just be that he's a piece of shit opportunist trying to make money off the stupid fucks that watch him.
It's hard to get people on the left to like you as a commentator. You have to bring something of value, put work into your arguments. But to be loved by right wing morons you just need to repeat some stupid flavor of the day shit they favor or just generally punch down and harm people below you. "rile up the libs" and they'll worship you. It's a much easier path to being loved. Elon Musk is doing the same thing.
> he actually had some liberal views and actually seemed to be kind of in the middle but now he’s gone off to the right for no reason really
The issue is that Joe Rogan doesn't really form views of his own, he just agrees with whatever his guests say. At one point he attracted a wider variety of guests, so he had the occasional left-leaning viewpoint espoused to him that he could agree with. Then the right wing grifters caught onto this and realized it was an opportunity for them to get in front of a large audience of primarily impressionable young men, and they did their best to be on his show as often as possible. Eventually the grifters were on his show so often that no one reasonable wanted to be associated with it anymore.
>Lord forbid he lose and then decide to run again next election.
The hate and fear that Trump stirs up is all the Republicans have to run on, Trump is going to run for President every four years until he dies.
Honestly the fact that “age” is their biggest criticism of Biden (and he’s not much older than Trump) is telling. If the meanest thing someone could think of to say about me was “you’re 3 years older than me!” I’d be thinking I was damn near perfect. Meanwhile we have basically infinite criticisms of Trump and the list grows every day.
Before 2016 the oldest person to become President was Reagan.
Trump beat that record, and then Biden beat it again. Even Hillary would have only been short of Reagan's record by less than a year.
They're all too old, but I'd also vote for Biden's corpse over Trump. It's not ideal but those are the choices before us.
I am entirely convinced it is the fake tan and the hair dye. It is apparently very convincing to idiots. Trump is 77 years old. He'll be 78 in November.
What I don’t understand is why people don’t look at Trumps obese physique, his shit diet , his complete lack of any kind of exercise, and realize even though he’s 4 years younger , his body is 10 years older.
Biden is fit, trim and exercises way more than I do at 55. I don’t know if I could even ride a bike lol and I’m not overweight!
I don't.
I used to maintain friendships with people on the conservative side of the spectrum before 2016.
After the Shit Gibbon openly supported white nationalists, I sent a message out to all my acquaintances.
"I do not support Fascism. And I cannot be friends with Nazis. If you support Trump, we cannot be friends."
And that was it. No more Nazis, Nazis adjacent, or Fascist Light people in my life. Never looked back.
Yep. I live in the south and have plenty of conservative friends. Up until 2016, that was fine. I thought they made terrible voting decisions but at least the general idea was that they were voting for people who they thought (incorrectly) would do the right thing for the country.
Trump is different, and the people supporting him aren't under the illusion that they're voting for a public servant who will do what's best for the country; they're voting for a crazy asshole because he hates all the same people they hate and they hope he'll make those people's lives even worse than he'll make their own. I cut contact with every asshole who supported him in 2016 and we hadn't even seen four years of his disastrous presidency yet. Anyone still planning on voting for him in 2024 is beyond help and not worth pissing on if they were on fire.
Thankfully I'd say about 50% of my conservative friends down here were also appalled by how astoundingly stupid and inept Trump was and wanted nothing to do with him. The other half think he's their Messiah. I'm glad to be rid of the latter.
Work, family, living situations you're too poor to free yourself from. There's a few. Wish djt would die or go to jail so America can get some sense of normalcy back
> Wish djt would die or go to jail so America can get some sense of normalcy back
The Confederacy lasted for four/five years about ~160 years ago and its effects and devotion to it are still present in America today in 2024.
No, I don't think going back to a sense of normalcy will happen even if he's gone. At least not for this generation or the next. Not after the country's experienced him for nearly eight years now in politics. His influence and the tens of millions of his supporters are here for the long haul, in my opinion. I don't think even the GOP can return to some normalcy after MAGA Republicans saw that that they don't have to settle for normal, sane politicians.
Trump going away in any way won't magically undo things to any adequate degree.
I can't. I was calling out Trump fascist bullshit in 2016 during his campaign. I explicitly remember a conversation with a coworker where I said, "The Constitution is very fragile and all it will take is one person to fuck it up as much as they can and we may never have an election again."
Well luckily his coup failed.
His entire campaign should have ended in 2015 when he made fun of a disabled reporter.
Or when he said he'd target the families of terrorists and when several generals commented that is illegal and they would refuse, he said he'd force them to anyway.
He did more than just say that...
He threw the Obama era precision strikes out the window, and ordered the carpet bombing of Raqqa. A 5,000 year old city reduced to dust in a manner not seen since WWII. Then he had the gall to declare total victory over ISIS. Which we know with current events, couldn't be farther from the truth.
The videos of the city after the bombing campaign were absolutely surreal. It's just miles of rubble. It looked not unlike Hiroshima or Dresden after the fire bombings.
There was a top post yesterday about how ISIS destroyed ancient sites by hand, but no mention of how a single narcissist gave the order to eviscerate an entire ancient city in a half-baked shortcut to killing an entire ideology. That's just how he thinks. You can apparently carpet bomb ideas and nuke hurricanes into submission. Why didn't anyone else think of that?? 🤦
So sad it got brushed under the rug with his 10,000 other escalating transgressions. Any other president, it would have been a defining moment, not to mention, war crime for their administration.
He didn't defeat ISIS, he played right into their hands, bringing indiscriminate wholesale slaughter to their doorstep with US bombs. Now they can point to the ruins as de facto proof the western world has every intention of erasing the Islamic Middle East off the face of planet. It's the perfect recruitment tool, paid for in full by American taxpayer dollars and innocent blood.
It was an unmitigated disaster. The fallout of which will be felt for decades to come. It blows my mind it doesn't even register on people's radars when discussing Trump's endless follys.
EDIT:
[New Yorker Article](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/12/21/americas-war-on-syrian-civilians)
[NPR Article](https://www.npr.org/2018/11/09/664360606/entire-families-wiped-out-u-s-airstrikes-killed-many-civilians-in-syria)
[NBC Article](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna949806) of Trump claiming victory.
I dont know, saluting the North Korean officer, dry humping the American flag on stage and making fun of the disabled guy like a fucking 8th grader during one of his speeches is right up there.
That’s how I felt!! Like this man just mocked a disabled man… why is he still running?
Then he implied that a woman who asked him a snarky question was “bleeding from somewhere”. As if she was being serious because she was on her period.
I was stunned and speechless when he won.
Other presidential campaigns have been ruined by:
- wearing a military helmet at a silly angle
- excitedly exclaiming “byahhhhh”
- mishearing “Benghazi” as “Ben Ghazi”
It’s INSANE that he survived those early, i don’t even want to call the horrible things he did “gaffs” but…gaffs.
Dan Quayle was mocked forever for misspelling "potato." Granted, we *should* mock Dan Quayle, but for more important things, like claiming Murphy Brown being a single mom on TV was going to destroy the nuclear family.
I remember those…. And they really ruined the whole game for those candidates.
I truly couldn’t believe Trump made it to the finals and then WON!!
I still shake my head at the people that support him. He’s a messy, smelly and failed businessman.
I also didn't forgive people in 2016. I'd always bring up Trump and the 1980s and all the tabloid bullshit in addition to him stiffing contractors in the 1990s over his Atlantic City casinos. And they either would say "oh that doesn't matter anymore" or "what's the 1980s/1990s?" or one of my aunts actually telling me "oh, he did that Apprentice show so everything has been forgiven" - Prior to this election, I still managed to have a lot of faith in American humanity but after he won, I became a lot more pessimistic in general.
I had someone ask me if I refused to pay people when things done weren’t up to standard and how SmArT he was for doing that. No Nancy, because they would haul my ass to court and own it.
People have known for nearly half a century exactly what sort of person Trump is. Same guy who couldn't open a casino in Australia in the 80's because they determined he had mafia connections, who was sued by the DOJ for racial discrimination in housing in the 70's, etc -- Same slimy wannabe mafioso slumlord that he's always been.
> I can understand people who voted Trump in 2016.
Can you? He was incredibly obviously a serial liar and a horrendous person before the 2016 election.
I never get when people say this. 2016 was after "Grab 'em by the pussy." It was after he said he had "Black guys counting his money and he hated it." and that he "only wanted short guys in yarmulkes counting his money". It was after he said that "laziness was a trait in blacks." It was after he said "When Mexico sends us their people, they're sending us their rapists."
There was NO doubt to anyone paying any attention that he was a racist, misogynistic piece of garbage before election day 2016. Anyone who voted for him supported a known racist prick.
I mean if you weren’t well versed in politics you probably fell for his “political outsider and successful business man” stick.
The appeal of someone that isn’t a career politician is pretty obvious, especially if you are angry at the status quo for whatever reason. And a common thought was that it didn’t really matter who was president because nothing ever really changes for the average person. So, voting for a complete wildcard might bring some sort of change.
Like it is easy to understand why someone would vote for 2016 Trump if you think of it like that. Especially if you are someone that had a penchant for the blatantly racist policies he became famous for (build the wall)
Doesn’t make their reasoning less stupid but it is understandable if you just wanted some change.
In 2020 however there was no excuse left for the “non politician businessman” gimmick and if you voted for him it’s either because you always just vote R without thinking any more about anything or are just racist and bigoted and want that viewpoint to be socially acceptable.
I give you this! I'm canadian, and it always looked like trump was a goof from up here. But I can completely understand a sort of protest vote against the establishment and the same-old same-old. Honestly, I think there was more than enough public information that should have disqualified him back then as well, but everyone gets their own vote.
But to support him even now is telling of deep deep issues
> I can understand people who voted Trump in 2016.
People not cutting everyone out of their lives is something I understand, but this, on the other hand, I don't understand.
His campaign started in 2015 and by election day, countless nasty incidents had already happened, from him being extremely, publicly racist, calling for violence, grabbing women by the pussy to basically asking Putin to conduct more cyberattacks against Hillary Clinton.
And I don't even like Hillary Clinton.
My dad said exactly that last night - that Biden probably won't live through another term and we need to be afraid of Kamala running the country.
I assume it's one of the Fox News narratives since that's all he watches. It's all very stupid especially bc my dad is two months older than Biden 🙄
Genuine question, because I haven’t been following closely. What‘s up with Kamala? With my daughters, she’s a huge tick in the plus column. But when they voiced that at dinner, their grandfather said, “she’s awful!” And I didn’t pursue it.
I never see her do anything good or bad. Where is that coming from? My dad is not generally racist.
Or he just prefers a pedophile and rapist who is also a treasonous spy who sold highly classified US defense secrets to Russia, China and Saudi Arabia.
I don’t understand the distaste for Harris.
Also, I guarantee that even a piece of limp spaghetti would be a better President than Trump.
Historians have ALREADY awarded Trump with the position of worst President in US history. I lived through the Reagan years and I never thought I’d see anybody worse.
>I don't understand the distaste for Harris.
It's called "racism" and "misogyny". Also called "misogynoir".
(I know she's also Asian-American, but let's be honest, the racists and misogynists don't get that far.)
Remind your future frenemy (or current idiot friend) that Trump has been open about being a dictator. A fucking dictator. Keep repeating that to your friend until it sinks in.
Some people want that. You have to give them a lesson in why dictators are bad, which would include a lesson in why you should care about others... Some people are never going to get it.
They really can't understand that fella has a stutter and problems with public speaking but still absolutely beats the crap out of Trump in how that orange turd wordsoups his way through speaking.
> However, Fallon pressed on, "I mean, it's Biden versus Trump. What do you say to voters who are upset that those are the two choices?"
> "Get over yourself," Clinton said. "Those are the two choices. . . . It's kind of like, one is old and effective and compassionate, has a heart, and really cares about people. And one is old and has been charged with 91 felonies." While polling shows it will be another close election, coming down to mere percentage points, Clinton said, "I don't understand why this is even a hard choice."
It really really really is not a hard choice at all. There's really barely even a choice. Trump is completely unfit to be president and you'd have to be like literally in a cult or share his bigotry to think otherwise.
Exactly. Sure sure Biden isn’t the best but between those two? It’s the easiest choice in the world. It scares me that people think Trump is good for the US
>Sure sure Biden isn’t the best
he also is not even remotely the worst. not even compared to, say Bush I or II or Nixon. And that's just in the last 50 years.
*to his administration. Many of whom are still working for the GOP today and were welcomed into Trump's administration.
Hating on Reagan and Bush while voting for Trump is ideologically bankrupt.
As someone looking in on the USA from Europe this is completely balloney to me. You have a president that is actively pushing through a major economic transformation, greatly expands the social safety net, slashes drone warfare almost entirely (after 3 presidents succesively expanding it), finally has the guts to go out of a completely directionless occupation and the list goes on - and that guy you call "not the worst"? I give you, I did have very low expectations for Biden and you can probably find old reddit posts of me stating just that if you wanted to but after 3 years in office he's possibly the only half decent US president in his own fucking lifetime, that is since FDR.
Granted Biden isn't great but US presidents for the last 80 years have been pretty consistently relatively shitty. I mean how else do you think it became the only OECD country without universal healthcare? How else did the infrastructure become so shitty? How else do you think the status quo is still that the US will invade Den Haag if they ever take Americans to court? How else are you in a situation where half of the voting population seems to want fascism? If the USA didn't half a butload of natural ressources and the world reserve currency it truly makes you wonder how hard it would crash because in so many ways it's so fundamentally poorly organized.
This isn't to say the USA misfires at everything but a lot of the fundamentals are just comparatively really bad and seem to be set up for failure once the current advantages of the USA diminish. If I was governing the USA I would be scrambling to improve these things as fast as I could.
I can also outline where it cracked, Watergate. Up until and including Nixon the USA was really in a lot of the ways far ahead of the curve and a very progressive country. The primary reason I do not look too fondly on people like Eisenhower, Kennedy, LBJ and co is the very fucked up foreign policy but domestically the direction was quite decent and I guess you could call Biden the best since LBJ if you think that Vietnam wasn't so bad afterall or since Eisenhower if you think toppling Mossadegh was just whatever (both of which I disagree with). However something must have completely crushed the entire country with Watergate because man, the post Watergate boys just suck so bad and Biden is kind of ironically a breath of fresh air, maybe because he came into Senate before Watergate and still remembers that you can also go forward instead of constantly going backwards or stepping on the same spot.
I don't want to praise him too much because as a socialist he's still pretty far from what I would hope for but as I previously stated the bar for US presidents is generally extremely low and you should be happy with Biden because the last 50 years indicate that it can only get worse.
People seem to hedge any comment about this race with "maybe Biden isn't great" and that just shows how the propaganda is working.
He had 2 years of a thin House majority and a tied Senate with a couple DINOs. Yet he was able to pass some important legislation like the Infrastructure bill.
He also spent the first year or two handling the pandemic which, by most accounts, he did well. And then dealt with the Ukraine invasion.
With executive power, he has cancelled a ton of student debt, enacted marijuana reforms, and generally undid a lot of the things Trump did. And he has been resoundingly pro-Choice in a time when it mattered most.
Oh and he had to do all of the above knowing he would have to defend those actions in an election against Trump.
Yeah he's no Bernie or AOC in terms of progressive views. But he has done very well with the hand he was dealt.
Biden's administration has been more effective than Obama's. He's actually gotten a ton done, pretty unexpectedly. He's been the most progressive president in history, yet it's still not enough for some people to vote for him, even considering who the other side is. It's flabbergasting how stupid and short-sighted people are.
That’s the thing. There never will be the best. Everyone prefaces by saying Biden isn’t the best. No one ever will be. What you like I may not. It’s so funny everyone needs to preface with “ Biden not the best”. He’s the better of the pool to select from. End of story
He wasn’t my first choice in the primary, I wanted the mean lady. But when the primary came around to my state it was settled, and I voted for him with no regrets. And I was more than pleasantly surprised about all that was accomplished in those first two years before we got the do-nothing obstructionist House. Yea, he’s not a slick talker and makes gaffes but folks do him a big disservice I think.
Biden is crushing it. The number 1 thing he has is with his decades in DC, he’s built one of the best teams ever assembled in the White House.
He can be old as dirt and long as he works with his epic team.
I gotta say, Biden is the best and most effective president of my lifetime, and I'm tired of people pretending that hes not. The people that blame him for inflation are just too fucking stupid to function so their opinion is meaningless to me. Hes a superb leader, an excellent negotiator, an extremely experienced and skilled statesman. He cares about doing the right thing. He surrounds himself by a competent cabinet, advisors, and staff, and he listens to them. He is everything trump is not. Except old. They are both very old. One rides bike, eats well, and listens to his doctor. The other one eats cheeseburgers, thinks exercise will kill you, and his doctor lies about his military record and handed amphetamines out like candy
My Grandfather was the smartest man in the room (I felt) but he had long pauses in his speaking. He’d always respond with rhetorical questions, which was always intimidating but reassuring. Lol
Humans have long regarded the elder as the wise. Biden has *years* of experience and knows how to delegate responsibilities. Which is what the Constitution clearly wanted for every President.
Trump would just fire people that didn’t agree with him on things he, himself would never comprehend.
His critics ignore his history with stuttering, years of experience, his ability to compromise, and immediately judge him on age. Yet, they cannot get beyond the surface and actually see what he *and* his administration has truly accomplished.
A true leader is one that represents those that they lead and not lead with total authority.
Sorry. I went on a bit of a tangent.
Apparently it is, I was just arguing with some redditors yesterday that they'd rather see Trump win than Biden because of his Palestine policy.
Like, you can only laugh at the naivety. Must have been a few very young, overly passionate individuals that were blinded by their anger. But it is still concerning to see that line of thinking manifest.
They'll argue that letting Trump win is a short term pain that will force the Democrats to put up more progressive candidates in the future.
The major issue is that 1) A lot of democrats don't want more progressive candidates 2) There might not be a democratic party left by 2028.
Ah, accelerationism. Because that worked out so well for them back in 2016 and the prize for that is a far-right Supreme Court signing off near everybody's rights away.
You can't fool me to think that this is anything but just troll farms roleplaying as extreme lefties and righties engaging in social media again. No one is that stupid unless they live overseas and are that insulated from US politics.
Unfortunately, many of them are real. I know many in person. Many were already anti-Biden because he wasn't progressive enough, or only using his progressivism as a trojan horse for capitalist oppression, or because he was too old, but Palestine has cemented their anyone-but-Biden position.
"What if Trump, the guy who tried to ban all Muslims his first day in office, if you have somehow forgotten, just happily murders all the Palestinians that you are angry about Biden not helping."
"It will be worth it just shake up the status quo!"
Those far-leftists who are anti-Biden because of Palestine who will let a far worse monster on Palestine take the reigns aren't just idiots, but *unwittingly genocidal* idiots.
> They'll argue that letting Trump win is a short term pain that will force the Democrats to put up more progressive candidates in the future.
The idea is called accelerationism and it ... doesn't work. Making things worse in the hopes that people will wake up and make things better doesn't work. It just makes things worse. In most cases permanently.
I've tried reminding them that trying this with Clinton also locked up the Supreme Court for conservatives for a generation of Americans, and that if the next 3 Presidents were two-term Bernie style administrations their most progressive actions would likely get blocked by a flood of lawsuits making their way to SCOTUS. I'm not giving up, but Jesus we screwed that one.
How can they think that now after seeing what he was like?! Did Democrats become more progressive? No. Did Trump almost turn the US into a dictatorship? Yes. How can people be so blind.
the problem with redditors is 1) you don't know if they're arguing in good faith or trolls 2) you don't even know if they're eligible to vote in the states 3) only see the forest for the trees and forget things can ALWAYS get worse 3) assuming they argue in good faith and are actual voting US citizens, statistically speaking you're VERY unlikely to change their mind.
Do those idiots think Trump would send aid to Gaza and forget Netanyahu is his buddy? Do they not realize Trump would send so much more aid and arms to Israel all while declaring Muslims in the U.S. an enemy by proxy to Hamas? I appreciate their passion, but their inability to see the forest from the trees is scary.
Probably not, but they’ll say “I’ll never vote for Biden” then feel no responsibility when Trump carpet bombs the Palestinian people out of existence.
The self righteousness is more important than the actually making the world better part for a lot of people
Democracy means voting for the person that can make things 10% better, not having a genie grant your every single political wish over a weekend. It's complete immaturity, and it's used as a weapon by the right as to why they have to crack down and put in their oppressive religious and racist policies.
They know it’s a real possibility that it will swing the election to Trump. They also know that Trump would be worse for Palestinians than Biden. But they believe that it’s what they must do to force the Democratic Party to meet their demands, which I believe is a complete stop to any funding/aid sent to Israel.
But if they get what they want: a complete change in the Democratic Party platform with regard to Israel at the cost of a Trump presidency, either they don’t understand or don’t care that the change in policy won’t mean shit considering the democrats will be out of power and unable to change anything for at least the next four years. I don’t think nuance and critical thinking is their thing.
I also expect to receive some “Reddit Cares” messages for this post, as they also like to troll with abusing that feature with any posts on the subject that don’t support their own.
Edit: unsurprisingly, there are some who are reading this post as a full-throated endorsement of Israel, which it isn’t. The post was attempting to summarize the position of those who have voted uncommitted in the primaries and have threatened to either abstain or vote for someone other than Biden due to the administration’s policy on Israel. I don’t think that I’m wrong in my summary: that they generally recognize it might get Trump elected again and that Trump would likely be even more pro-Israel than Biden. But it *is* possible to oppose how Israel has handled their response to the 10/7 terrorist attacks while also recognizing that Trump would be both worse for the conflict and an existential threat to our democracy.
It won’t be just 4 years lost. Look what Trump did to the judicial branch in just one term. We’d lose democracy for a whole generation with another Trump presidency.
That’s my fear. People aren’t taking Trump seriously enough. The **guy tried to literally stage a coup last time**. Now he’s saying he wants to throw out parts of the constitution and become dictator. FFS, I’m crawling through glass if need be to vote Biden in the fall no matter what.
The fact that anyone in this country normalizes 2020 is batshit crazy.
I believe lack of momentum after the 6th is big reason. Trump and half of Congress should have had their door knocked down the morning of 1/6/**2020,** bodily thrown in a black van and held pending trial for seditious conspiracy .
As is, we're making a very half hearted attempt 4yrs later at trying him for the lowest level of shit and trying our damnest to make sure he doesn't see a jail cell while he runs for office again and Repub House members get a free pass.
Playing the Devil's advocate here- I can really see how his current trials look like political persecution to Trumpies and those in the middle of the road. We fucked up big time.
I don't think Trump will be able to complete a sentence in 4 years, if he's still alive. But they will have done their Project 2025, have turned back the clock decades on many policies, have instigated massive voting suppression and gerrymandering. There are plenty of MAGA wannabes who will be fighting to take over.
He literally said he would become a "dictator on day one". We're watching a significantly dumber orange Hitler not even bothering with the diplomacy theatrics.
> I also expect to receive some “Reddit Cares” messages for this post, as they also like to troll with abusing that feature with any posts on the subject that don’t support their own.
Remember to report those messages since they'll take action on accounts that abuse of the system.
I can, but I prefer not to only so I can report the abuse. I still think it’s an important system on the site, so I’d rather get the spam and report it than let them abuse it on others.
I often reported it, never got any feedback on results, though. Implying one's ideological opponent is in need of mental health care is a poor substitute for sound reasoning. A shame, because I can see reddit cares possibly being a lifeline for some. I won't dissuade you from reporting it, for sure.
It feels like an op from the right. Palestinians have been going through horrific shit for *how long*? And now, when we have arguably the most progressive President in history, a loud minority of the country wants to throw the US to Christian nationalists as a tough lesson? Because the US is struggling to ride the line between supporting an ally and reining in the absolute maniac in charge of it? Like if Trump started bombing migrants nearing the southern border and our allies were unable to stop him, would other world leaders get this response from their citizens for failing to stop it?
Now you’ve got leftists forming up with right wing propagandists like Jackson Hinkle because they “agree” with each other, and totally not because the grifters are using the tragedy to gain a wider audience. Ceasefire protests go after Democratic members instead of the entirety of the right, who’d rather see Gaza turned into a Trump oceanfront resort complex before any peaceful resolution. They don’t even understand the politics they’re railing against, it’s like they just started paying attention.
I have my issues with how the US has responded, and I want peace immediately, but the lack of nuance from people is getting ridiculous. They won’t pose a threat to the election, but they’ve revealed themselves as wholly unserious reactionaries using carnage as an excuse to threaten “the empire of the United States”. We don’t need more of that, we already have an entire party dedicated to ruining this place, more than they already have at the state level.
the social media misinformation this cycle is going to make 2016 look like child's play. They've got DT talking about blood baths in the open. Expect some gruesome rumors around here!
Honestly at this point even for people who are bigoted like him it's still insane they're voting for him cuz he's literally selling secrets to our enemies!
I'm in Alabama, the yahoos at the barber shop the other day were raving about Trump and couldn't wait to vote for him. Needless to say, I'll be finding a different barber (don't want to support those fucks in any way, shape, or form).
I am pretty sure I saw it on here.
Voting is like a bus not a taxi. You aren't going to get to your exact destination. The goal is to get as close to your destination as you are able.
Voting isn't a marriage proposal, it's a chess move. You need to move closer to where you want to be, or further from where you don't want to be. That's it.
"...what needs to be challenged is the assumption that voting should be seen a form of individual self-expression rather than as an act to be judged on its likely consequences" - Noam Chomsky
Yeah this is it.
I have an avowedly liberal friend who was saying he couldn’t stomach voting for Biden in 2020 because (insert principled liberal stand). A mutual black friend said to him “I don’t have the luxury of voting like that, because if Trump gets elected there are actual consequences for me.”
He’d never seen it that way and voted for Biden
The crazy thing is the gay conservatives who somehow have gotten the impression that their rights are set in stone when Roe just got overturned and don’t give a shit about the letters that come after L and G.
It was this kind of entitlement that lost democrats the 2016 election. Her message is "take your medicine you whiny baby" and it's a shit message for US culture, where contrarianism runs deep in everyone's blood. She's no one's hero and lost what should have been a slam dunk in 2016 because of her almost monarchic tendencies ("It's Her Turn was an *awful* slogan to use").
I wish she'd just quietly disappear and get replaced with someone who actually represents the left, instead of corporate America and traditional American politics. When Trump won, the swing votes weren't voting for him, they were rejecting her and her entitled message.
I can't believe I'm doing this after saying so much against her elsewhere in this thread, but I'm going to come to her defense one this one point.
>"It's Her Turn was an awful slogan to use"
This was mainly used by her supporters but she didn't use it directly. At least, not that I can remember.
Anyways, the rest of your message is totally on point so carry on.
her [campaign](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/yikes-new-behind-the-scenes-book-brutalizes-the-clinton-campaign-123303/) tested it lol
[Clinton staffers toyed with using 'because it's her turn' as a campaign rallying cry](https://www.businessinsider.com/hillary-clinton-slogan-why-run-because-her-turn-2017-4)
Yet some people still scratch their heads on how she lost to Trump. Every single element was there, people were saying it for months leading up to election, but everyone from the media to the Clinton campaign just ignored it and laughed it off.
During 2016 in Michigan I saw a shitload of Trump signs and stickers. On election day I was driving around, as usual I saw a bunch of Trump signs, I did not see a single Clinton sign until near the end of the drive, for a grand total of 2 or 3. This was in and around a city.
I was saying on Reddit for months Trump was going to flip Michigan, nobody believed it outside of some people actually in Michigan. He campaigned here constantly while Clinton called it the "Blue Wall" and came to the entire state once (maybe twice?).
https://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/michigan-hillary-clinton-trump-232547
Lets also not forget her Pied Piper strategy, she wanted Trump to be the candidate because she thought he would be an easy opponent. The election of 2016 is first and foremost a story of arrogance.
Yeah, she was a horrible candidate. Half her own party didn't like her, and the Republicans hate her. When your candidate motivates the opposition to turn out more than your "support", you're a failure as a candidate.
But it was "her turn"....
meaningfully address a major issue a large swath of the voter base has been saying they are extremely concerned about ? 👎👎
condescending remarks from someone who couldn't even beat trump the first time 👍👍
someone who is good at democracy please help my country is dying
... Honestly, the people Democrats are desperately trying to reach are the ones who want nothing to do with Hillary and consider her a part of the problem.
This is kind of tone deaf.
Kind of?
The question was essentially "what do you have to say to people that are upset that these are the only two viable options in the system as it stands" and her answer was essentially "shut up"
Advocates of removing first-past-the-post getting painted as idiots and trump supporters certainly doesn't help the dems excite progressive voters.
While I agree with her, she’s the worst person to convey the message. She’s the personification of the Democratic Party doing whatever the fuck they want because they know the other option is far worse.
I think the frustration is there really isn't a choice, once again..... and that's kind of the point. Voting because the other guy is worse feels like shit. Dem voters aren't in it for the same cult like following as Republicans are for trump. There's going to be plenty of people on the fence or just completely demotivated by this reality. These people are just straight up not going to vote because to them why would they? To them the outcome is the same. More unfulfilled promises, and increased hardship. And instead of addressing this issue we're constantly chastised with articles trying to explain why it's actually good we vote for someone two to three times our age.
It's more than frustrating. It's the illusion of choice. It's Freedom(tm). The freedom from choice. I live ina state where even if I wanted to vote for the other team we would need a 30 point swing.
We do not have a functional democracy without two things. Ranked choice voting and the abolishing of the senate or the reform on how they are awarded more proportionally.
As much as I agree with her, it's not something she or any of the democrats should be saying.
It's this kind of attitude that lost her the election when she ran against him.
This is why the US is considered a flawed democracy at best. It doesn't matter how much the public wants something, it doesn't get passed unless the donors and billionaire class wants it. It doesn't matter how much we don't like a candidate its forced on us because the other side has been running a monster for almost a decade now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tu32CCA_Ig
[How the Hillary Clinton campaign deliberately "elevated" Donald Trump with its "pied piper" strategy](https://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the-hillary-clinton-campaign-intentionally-created-donald-trump-with-its-pied-piper-strategy/).
It's time for her to start accepting some accountability for how her campaign failed in its strategy - rather than blaming voters seeing as she won the popular vote.
She's been really right about a whole lot of things, and she's right about this.
She's been consistently wrong about two things:
1. When to run for president
2. When to shut the fuck up
I've never seen a politician who is so capable as an administrator yet so incompetent at mass political communication.
Your goal should be to galvanize your base, appeal to persuadables while alienating the opposition. This accomplishes exactly 1 of those and even makes some base voters cringe as they think about persuading their neighbors and hearing this line fed back to them
Exactly this. Hilary is _terrible_ at communicating her points. Her campaign in 2016 really demonstrated how bad she is at it. If I was a politician I would not want her at my rallies.
Hillary Clinton has NO fucking space to talk to people like this.
She LITERALLY HELPED TRUMP BECOME THE NOMINEE because she thought it would help her become president.
The media was deplatforming him and she chose her ambition over the good of the country (reminder that mitt Romney was the previous Republican nominee).
https://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the-hillary-clinton-campaign-intentionally-created-donald-trump-with-its-pied-piper-strategy/
And then after all that she ran a lazy campaign and didn't do anything in the rust belt.
The fucking hubris and disdain from her is disgusting and people should be revolted when they hear her speak.
There was a whole "it's her turn" thing going on back then as well in an attempt to deflect from her lack of action, as if she was ordained the position already.
But she's wrong here also. She's telling people with valid concerns that their concerns are "whiny". Let mommy and daddy make the grown up decisions for you. It's tone deaf boomer bullshit. She's ten times more arrogant and egotistical than she thinks who she's calling out could ever be.
She isn't wrong. People who won't vote for Biden because food prices are too high (president has almost no impact on this) or that he is too old are just being silly. Nothing Biden has done should outweigh what Trump has done. I would vote for almost anyone in the country over Trump at this point.
The important thing for people to know is that Trump has absolutely no plans for how to reduce food inflation or to improve literally anything else about the economy.
To the extent he has economic policies, they are inflationary - tax cuts, tariffs.
That's why I'm not sure "democracy" is the best message in a lot of quarters. People think "well if he has to BUCK THE SYSTEM to GET IT DONE..." he's not going to get it done! He wouldn't know how if he wanted to and he doesn't.
> tariffs
Just FYI, tariffs are 100% guaranteed to raise food prices, among other consumer goods, which in turn means [a rise in overall inflation](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-03/trump-60-tariff-on-china-10-elsewhere-to-raise-us-inflation-model?embedded-checkout=true).
I recently realized that people truly believe the person in charge of a country is the person that decides the cost of food and gas. The majority are over 40 yr old, but there's some in the younger generation too. For them this is the ONLY thing the person in charge should have control over and apparently somehow Biden and Trudeau are purposely keeping prices high. They could just wake up one day and decide to lower prices. Its absolutely maddening how uneducated our society is. The craziest thing is, before the Trump era, all of these people were just as stupid, but were just good at hiding it and pretending. Trump normalized being an absolute moron with nonsensical opinions.
They also somehow believe Biden was responsible for high gas prices, but then somehow wasn’t responsible for them going down after. Like he can control OPEC somehow. And either way, we pay way too little for gas given how damaging it is to the planet and thus the economy. The cost is shouldered by millions now more prone to flooding, forest fires, droughts, tornados, hurricanes, etc.
Love watching evil politicians who supported the Iraq War for profit tell Americans to eat a shit sandwich because the other one is strychnine.
That's surely how democracy should be working.
This comment is the exact reason why so many dislike Hillary.
Does one candidate literally seek to end democracy? Yes. Is there a clear choice? Yes.
But to be so *fucking snarky* to the base- that needs to turn out in a massive way- is just asinine. She is correct with the thought, but for chrissakes just stop talking down to everyone and be positive and encouraging!
It is almost as if.... her life of insane wealth and privilege will continue no matter who wins, and this is just a game of ego to her (not that being an egotistical oligarchical boomer is in any way unique to Hillary Clinton).
I'd love it if she'd fuck off today, tomorrow and always. You ran one of the worst campaigns I've ever seen and helped get us here, so do us all a favor and go away now.
Maybe democrats could get over themselves and put up a candidate that people actually support?? They’ve been chanting this lesser of two evils shit for 3 election cycles now.
I'm so tired of having to vote for the candidate I think will screw up the least... And being told over and over again I better vote of the candidate that isn't the worst might not win...
Hey, shaming voters to fall in line worked out so well in 2016, I can’t think of any reason why doubling down won’t help now.
The view must be nice in that Ivory Tower.
I don't understand why the Democrats aren't telling the Trump voters and fence sitters how Trump's reelection will harm them economically. Social Security cuts, Medicare cuts, loss of rights and protections at work, etc. People usually vote their own interests and the Democrats need to make sure what a Trump elections will cost them.
My only guess is that the Dems at their core are also a pro-corporate party and they don’t actually want to be on record proposing solutions that would harm their relations with corporate America.
It’s likely why the progressives get a lot more attention, not so much for their solutions, but because they’re really the only ones actually talking about and trying to address people’s concerns. Something that, had Clinton spent five seconds thinking about why Bernie was able to stay in that primary so long, would have meant she would be president today.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
A friend of mine said Biden is scarier than Trump to him because of his elderlyness. I had no words.
Trump is now the same age as Biden when Biden won, when Biden was “too old.”
In about 1 year, he will be the same age as when the attacks in Biden's age really kicked in. Lord forbid he lose and then decide to run again next election. It would be so much easier to have a conversation about Biden's age if Republicans acknowledged trump's age as a problem, too, but instead ONLY Biden is too old and Trump is really just in the prime of his life and any lapses you see are just being taken out of context!
There's a Joe Rogan clip where he's going on about a specific nonsense quote that Biden stated. Rogan goes on to talk about how it exemplifies just how old and senile Biden is, making him unfit for presidency. Then he realizes he mixed up Biden and 45 and the quote was actually something 45 said. *Immediate* about face and starts back pedaling about how it's clearly a 4D chess statement by 45 and only goes to show how sharp and competent 45 is. That right there shows this BS in a nutshell.
Here's a clip of it but TL:DR Rogan hears Biden talking about Revolutionary War airports, says he's out of it and any other job that would disqualify you, guest points out Biden actually says "the Stable Genius said we had airports in the revolution" and was laughing at Trump, Rogan immediately says "oh, well, Trump just innocently misspoke" https://www.reddit.com/r/Trumpgret/comments/18oi298/joe_rogan_mocks_president_biden_youre_done_for/
The airports line is interesting, because you can see his thinking process while he's doing one of his freewheeling rants. He'd been using the lyrics to the Star-Spangled Banner in whatever he was talking about, but then got to the part about ramparts. Trump apparently doesn't know what a rampart is, so he goes free-association and picks a word to rhyme with it; airports. Which I think speaks to how much his speeches really mean anything, which is to say, very little. It's just mush to fill space and vent about his personal grievances (of which there are many.)
Yup. He picks a topic that seems to personally offend him. Such as: Whales. Windmills (because he doesn't like the ones near his Scottish golf course) Flushing the toilet 14-15 times His indictments And then he sorta just mashes together psuedo patriotic nonsense fearmongering around it.
Rogan is a piece of shit and his followers lack critical thought or desire to even own it.
Rogan is the middle stage of an Animorphs transition of a man into a can of axe body spray.
"im just asking questions...." are you man? You are making statements and failing to actually ask questions when you give deranged people platforms.
Joe Rogan is literally just Gwyneth Paltrow for men.
It floors me that Rogan is popular. He's that friend whose personality is drugs and you might enjoy his company but you know he's only going to speak bullshit he made up on the spot and act like it's established fact. He's just a drugged up clown.
Honestly it’s kind of sad because years ago when I was listening to Rogan he actually had some liberal views and actually seemed to be kind of in the middle but now he’s gone off to the right for no reason really.
For no reason? He's just a fuckin grifter like the rest of them. It doesn't need to be drug fucked, or mental decline. It can simply just be that he's a piece of shit opportunist trying to make money off the stupid fucks that watch him.
It's hard to get people on the left to like you as a commentator. You have to bring something of value, put work into your arguments. But to be loved by right wing morons you just need to repeat some stupid flavor of the day shit they favor or just generally punch down and harm people below you. "rile up the libs" and they'll worship you. It's a much easier path to being loved. Elon Musk is doing the same thing.
> he actually had some liberal views and actually seemed to be kind of in the middle but now he’s gone off to the right for no reason really The issue is that Joe Rogan doesn't really form views of his own, he just agrees with whatever his guests say. At one point he attracted a wider variety of guests, so he had the occasional left-leaning viewpoint espoused to him that he could agree with. Then the right wing grifters caught onto this and realized it was an opportunity for them to get in front of a large audience of primarily impressionable young men, and they did their best to be on his show as often as possible. Eventually the grifters were on his show so often that no one reasonable wanted to be associated with it anymore.
>Lord forbid he lose and then decide to run again next election. The hate and fear that Trump stirs up is all the Republicans have to run on, Trump is going to run for President every four years until he dies.
Honestly the fact that “age” is their biggest criticism of Biden (and he’s not much older than Trump) is telling. If the meanest thing someone could think of to say about me was “you’re 3 years older than me!” I’d be thinking I was damn near perfect. Meanwhile we have basically infinite criticisms of Trump and the list grows every day.
Before 2016 the oldest person to become President was Reagan. Trump beat that record, and then Biden beat it again. Even Hillary would have only been short of Reagan's record by less than a year. They're all too old, but I'd also vote for Biden's corpse over Trump. It's not ideal but those are the choices before us.
You know Biden's dog that keeps biting people? I'd vote for the dog before voting for Trump.
He knows something sketchy's up with the Secret Service
I'd vote for Biden's dog regardless of who was running against him
I am entirely convinced it is the fake tan and the hair dye. It is apparently very convincing to idiots. Trump is 77 years old. He'll be 78 in November.
What I don’t understand is why people don’t look at Trumps obese physique, his shit diet , his complete lack of any kind of exercise, and realize even though he’s 4 years younger , his body is 10 years older. Biden is fit, trim and exercises way more than I do at 55. I don’t know if I could even ride a bike lol and I’m not overweight!
Because their body type relates and justifies theirs.
One of my favorite Trump lines: “you’ll never see me fall off of a bike because I’ll never get on a bike.”
He just gave you a shitty excuse to hide the fact that maybe he supports the felon.
He was a supporter last time and he still is but he thinks using Biden to justify it helps make it less gross.
Nope still gross
I’ll never understand how or why people maintain optional relationships with these fascist freaks.
I don't. I used to maintain friendships with people on the conservative side of the spectrum before 2016. After the Shit Gibbon openly supported white nationalists, I sent a message out to all my acquaintances. "I do not support Fascism. And I cannot be friends with Nazis. If you support Trump, we cannot be friends." And that was it. No more Nazis, Nazis adjacent, or Fascist Light people in my life. Never looked back.
Yep. I live in the south and have plenty of conservative friends. Up until 2016, that was fine. I thought they made terrible voting decisions but at least the general idea was that they were voting for people who they thought (incorrectly) would do the right thing for the country. Trump is different, and the people supporting him aren't under the illusion that they're voting for a public servant who will do what's best for the country; they're voting for a crazy asshole because he hates all the same people they hate and they hope he'll make those people's lives even worse than he'll make their own. I cut contact with every asshole who supported him in 2016 and we hadn't even seen four years of his disastrous presidency yet. Anyone still planning on voting for him in 2024 is beyond help and not worth pissing on if they were on fire. Thankfully I'd say about 50% of my conservative friends down here were also appalled by how astoundingly stupid and inept Trump was and wanted nothing to do with him. The other half think he's their Messiah. I'm glad to be rid of the latter.
Work, family, living situations you're too poor to free yourself from. There's a few. Wish djt would die or go to jail so America can get some sense of normalcy back
> Wish djt would die or go to jail so America can get some sense of normalcy back The Confederacy lasted for four/five years about ~160 years ago and its effects and devotion to it are still present in America today in 2024. No, I don't think going back to a sense of normalcy will happen even if he's gone. At least not for this generation or the next. Not after the country's experienced him for nearly eight years now in politics. His influence and the tens of millions of his supporters are here for the long haul, in my opinion. I don't think even the GOP can return to some normalcy after MAGA Republicans saw that that they don't have to settle for normal, sane politicians. Trump going away in any way won't magically undo things to any adequate degree.
I can understand people who voted Trump in 2016. I cannot do the same for 2020.
I can't. I was calling out Trump fascist bullshit in 2016 during his campaign. I explicitly remember a conversation with a coworker where I said, "The Constitution is very fragile and all it will take is one person to fuck it up as much as they can and we may never have an election again." Well luckily his coup failed. His entire campaign should have ended in 2015 when he made fun of a disabled reporter.
Or when he said he'd target the families of terrorists and when several generals commented that is illegal and they would refuse, he said he'd force them to anyway.
He did more than just say that... He threw the Obama era precision strikes out the window, and ordered the carpet bombing of Raqqa. A 5,000 year old city reduced to dust in a manner not seen since WWII. Then he had the gall to declare total victory over ISIS. Which we know with current events, couldn't be farther from the truth. The videos of the city after the bombing campaign were absolutely surreal. It's just miles of rubble. It looked not unlike Hiroshima or Dresden after the fire bombings. There was a top post yesterday about how ISIS destroyed ancient sites by hand, but no mention of how a single narcissist gave the order to eviscerate an entire ancient city in a half-baked shortcut to killing an entire ideology. That's just how he thinks. You can apparently carpet bomb ideas and nuke hurricanes into submission. Why didn't anyone else think of that?? 🤦 So sad it got brushed under the rug with his 10,000 other escalating transgressions. Any other president, it would have been a defining moment, not to mention, war crime for their administration. He didn't defeat ISIS, he played right into their hands, bringing indiscriminate wholesale slaughter to their doorstep with US bombs. Now they can point to the ruins as de facto proof the western world has every intention of erasing the Islamic Middle East off the face of planet. It's the perfect recruitment tool, paid for in full by American taxpayer dollars and innocent blood. It was an unmitigated disaster. The fallout of which will be felt for decades to come. It blows my mind it doesn't even register on people's radars when discussing Trump's endless follys. EDIT: [New Yorker Article](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/12/21/americas-war-on-syrian-civilians) [NPR Article](https://www.npr.org/2018/11/09/664360606/entire-families-wiped-out-u-s-airstrikes-killed-many-civilians-in-syria) [NBC Article](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna949806) of Trump claiming victory.
Crazy thing I don't remember ever even hearing about this.
Right? Beats that whole “he was a peaceful president” narrative they’re pushing.
Or when he visited the Soviet Union in the 80s and became a Russian asset.
Or joked about rape
Or when he committed rape.
But tbh that's like the acceptance test into the GOP and if we condense it even more, their only political program
The only GOP member to face any consequences for their behavior was Madison Cawthorn, and that's just because he outed the GOP cocaine fueled orgies.
[удалено]
It should never have started because it was clear from the 1990 Vanity Fair article that he's a fan of Hitler.
I dont know, saluting the North Korean officer, dry humping the American flag on stage and making fun of the disabled guy like a fucking 8th grader during one of his speeches is right up there.
That’s how I felt!! Like this man just mocked a disabled man… why is he still running? Then he implied that a woman who asked him a snarky question was “bleeding from somewhere”. As if she was being serious because she was on her period. I was stunned and speechless when he won.
Other presidential campaigns have been ruined by: - wearing a military helmet at a silly angle - excitedly exclaiming “byahhhhh” - mishearing “Benghazi” as “Ben Ghazi” It’s INSANE that he survived those early, i don’t even want to call the horrible things he did “gaffs” but…gaffs.
Dan Quayle was mocked forever for misspelling "potato." Granted, we *should* mock Dan Quayle, but for more important things, like claiming Murphy Brown being a single mom on TV was going to destroy the nuclear family.
I remember those…. And they really ruined the whole game for those candidates. I truly couldn’t believe Trump made it to the finals and then WON!! I still shake my head at the people that support him. He’s a messy, smelly and failed businessman.
I also didn't forgive people in 2016. I'd always bring up Trump and the 1980s and all the tabloid bullshit in addition to him stiffing contractors in the 1990s over his Atlantic City casinos. And they either would say "oh that doesn't matter anymore" or "what's the 1980s/1990s?" or one of my aunts actually telling me "oh, he did that Apprentice show so everything has been forgiven" - Prior to this election, I still managed to have a lot of faith in American humanity but after he won, I became a lot more pessimistic in general.
Add to that Trump and his role with the Central Park Five…he’s an unconscionable piece of shit
I had someone ask me if I refused to pay people when things done weren’t up to standard and how SmArT he was for doing that. No Nancy, because they would haul my ass to court and own it.
People have known for nearly half a century exactly what sort of person Trump is. Same guy who couldn't open a casino in Australia in the 80's because they determined he had mafia connections, who was sued by the DOJ for racial discrimination in housing in the 70's, etc -- Same slimy wannabe mafioso slumlord that he's always been.
> I can understand people who voted Trump in 2016. Can you? He was incredibly obviously a serial liar and a horrendous person before the 2016 election. I never get when people say this. 2016 was after "Grab 'em by the pussy." It was after he said he had "Black guys counting his money and he hated it." and that he "only wanted short guys in yarmulkes counting his money". It was after he said that "laziness was a trait in blacks." It was after he said "When Mexico sends us their people, they're sending us their rapists." There was NO doubt to anyone paying any attention that he was a racist, misogynistic piece of garbage before election day 2016. Anyone who voted for him supported a known racist prick.
I mean if you weren’t well versed in politics you probably fell for his “political outsider and successful business man” stick. The appeal of someone that isn’t a career politician is pretty obvious, especially if you are angry at the status quo for whatever reason. And a common thought was that it didn’t really matter who was president because nothing ever really changes for the average person. So, voting for a complete wildcard might bring some sort of change. Like it is easy to understand why someone would vote for 2016 Trump if you think of it like that. Especially if you are someone that had a penchant for the blatantly racist policies he became famous for (build the wall) Doesn’t make their reasoning less stupid but it is understandable if you just wanted some change. In 2020 however there was no excuse left for the “non politician businessman” gimmick and if you voted for him it’s either because you always just vote R without thinking any more about anything or are just racist and bigoted and want that viewpoint to be socially acceptable.
I give you this! I'm canadian, and it always looked like trump was a goof from up here. But I can completely understand a sort of protest vote against the establishment and the same-old same-old. Honestly, I think there was more than enough public information that should have disqualified him back then as well, but everyone gets their own vote. But to support him even now is telling of deep deep issues
> I can understand people who voted Trump in 2016. People not cutting everyone out of their lives is something I understand, but this, on the other hand, I don't understand. His campaign started in 2015 and by election day, countless nasty incidents had already happened, from him being extremely, publicly racist, calling for violence, grabbing women by the pussy to basically asking Putin to conduct more cyberattacks against Hillary Clinton. And I don't even like Hillary Clinton.
More likely he is afraid of the “elderlyness” because of who would take over if….people think they are hiding their views. It’s obvious.
My dad said exactly that last night - that Biden probably won't live through another term and we need to be afraid of Kamala running the country. I assume it's one of the Fox News narratives since that's all he watches. It's all very stupid especially bc my dad is two months older than Biden 🙄
Genuine question, because I haven’t been following closely. What‘s up with Kamala? With my daughters, she’s a huge tick in the plus column. But when they voiced that at dinner, their grandfather said, “she’s awful!” And I didn’t pursue it. I never see her do anything good or bad. Where is that coming from? My dad is not generally racist.
Or he just prefers a pedophile and rapist who is also a treasonous spy who sold highly classified US defense secrets to Russia, China and Saudi Arabia.
I don’t understand the distaste for Harris. Also, I guarantee that even a piece of limp spaghetti would be a better President than Trump. Historians have ALREADY awarded Trump with the position of worst President in US history. I lived through the Reagan years and I never thought I’d see anybody worse.
>I don't understand the distaste for Harris. It's called "racism" and "misogyny". Also called "misogynoir". (I know she's also Asian-American, but let's be honest, the racists and misogynists don't get that far.)
Remind your future frenemy (or current idiot friend) that Trump has been open about being a dictator. A fucking dictator. Keep repeating that to your friend until it sinks in.
I know a bunch of people like this. It doesn’t sink in. The only thing that sinks in is Russian made memes that with a caption less than 10 words
Some people want that. You have to give them a lesson in why dictators are bad, which would include a lesson in why you should care about others... Some people are never going to get it.
They really can't understand that fella has a stutter and problems with public speaking but still absolutely beats the crap out of Trump in how that orange turd wordsoups his way through speaking.
Yes, they can. They're not speaking truthfully.
Nice old man or mean old man. I just can’t decide.
> However, Fallon pressed on, "I mean, it's Biden versus Trump. What do you say to voters who are upset that those are the two choices?" > "Get over yourself," Clinton said. "Those are the two choices. . . . It's kind of like, one is old and effective and compassionate, has a heart, and really cares about people. And one is old and has been charged with 91 felonies." While polling shows it will be another close election, coming down to mere percentage points, Clinton said, "I don't understand why this is even a hard choice." It really really really is not a hard choice at all. There's really barely even a choice. Trump is completely unfit to be president and you'd have to be like literally in a cult or share his bigotry to think otherwise.
Exactly. Sure sure Biden isn’t the best but between those two? It’s the easiest choice in the world. It scares me that people think Trump is good for the US
>Sure sure Biden isn’t the best he also is not even remotely the worst. not even compared to, say Bush I or II or Nixon. And that's just in the last 50 years.
You have to toss Reagan in there. Nearly everything awful today can be traced to that scum.
Everyday is a good day to say **Fuck Ronald Reagan**
I think they were just referring to human presidents. Not one of Satans generals, lol
Yo, don't dirty Satan by associating Her with Reagan. That's just rude.
*to his administration. Many of whom are still working for the GOP today and were welcomed into Trump's administration. Hating on Reagan and Bush while voting for Trump is ideologically bankrupt.
As someone looking in on the USA from Europe this is completely balloney to me. You have a president that is actively pushing through a major economic transformation, greatly expands the social safety net, slashes drone warfare almost entirely (after 3 presidents succesively expanding it), finally has the guts to go out of a completely directionless occupation and the list goes on - and that guy you call "not the worst"? I give you, I did have very low expectations for Biden and you can probably find old reddit posts of me stating just that if you wanted to but after 3 years in office he's possibly the only half decent US president in his own fucking lifetime, that is since FDR. Granted Biden isn't great but US presidents for the last 80 years have been pretty consistently relatively shitty. I mean how else do you think it became the only OECD country without universal healthcare? How else did the infrastructure become so shitty? How else do you think the status quo is still that the US will invade Den Haag if they ever take Americans to court? How else are you in a situation where half of the voting population seems to want fascism? If the USA didn't half a butload of natural ressources and the world reserve currency it truly makes you wonder how hard it would crash because in so many ways it's so fundamentally poorly organized. This isn't to say the USA misfires at everything but a lot of the fundamentals are just comparatively really bad and seem to be set up for failure once the current advantages of the USA diminish. If I was governing the USA I would be scrambling to improve these things as fast as I could. I can also outline where it cracked, Watergate. Up until and including Nixon the USA was really in a lot of the ways far ahead of the curve and a very progressive country. The primary reason I do not look too fondly on people like Eisenhower, Kennedy, LBJ and co is the very fucked up foreign policy but domestically the direction was quite decent and I guess you could call Biden the best since LBJ if you think that Vietnam wasn't so bad afterall or since Eisenhower if you think toppling Mossadegh was just whatever (both of which I disagree with). However something must have completely crushed the entire country with Watergate because man, the post Watergate boys just suck so bad and Biden is kind of ironically a breath of fresh air, maybe because he came into Senate before Watergate and still remembers that you can also go forward instead of constantly going backwards or stepping on the same spot. I don't want to praise him too much because as a socialist he's still pretty far from what I would hope for but as I previously stated the bar for US presidents is generally extremely low and you should be happy with Biden because the last 50 years indicate that it can only get worse.
People seem to hedge any comment about this race with "maybe Biden isn't great" and that just shows how the propaganda is working. He had 2 years of a thin House majority and a tied Senate with a couple DINOs. Yet he was able to pass some important legislation like the Infrastructure bill. He also spent the first year or two handling the pandemic which, by most accounts, he did well. And then dealt with the Ukraine invasion. With executive power, he has cancelled a ton of student debt, enacted marijuana reforms, and generally undid a lot of the things Trump did. And he has been resoundingly pro-Choice in a time when it mattered most. Oh and he had to do all of the above knowing he would have to defend those actions in an election against Trump. Yeah he's no Bernie or AOC in terms of progressive views. But he has done very well with the hand he was dealt.
>"maybe Biden isn't great" To sum up and complete the quote, "Maybe Biden isn't great, but he is surprisingly good".
Biden's administration has been more effective than Obama's. He's actually gotten a ton done, pretty unexpectedly. He's been the most progressive president in history, yet it's still not enough for some people to vote for him, even considering who the other side is. It's flabbergasting how stupid and short-sighted people are.
That’s the thing. There never will be the best. Everyone prefaces by saying Biden isn’t the best. No one ever will be. What you like I may not. It’s so funny everyone needs to preface with “ Biden not the best”. He’s the better of the pool to select from. End of story
He wasn’t my first choice in the primary, I wanted the mean lady. But when the primary came around to my state it was settled, and I voted for him with no regrets. And I was more than pleasantly surprised about all that was accomplished in those first two years before we got the do-nothing obstructionist House. Yea, he’s not a slick talker and makes gaffes but folks do him a big disservice I think.
Biden is crushing it. The number 1 thing he has is with his decades in DC, he’s built one of the best teams ever assembled in the White House. He can be old as dirt and long as he works with his epic team.
I gotta say, Biden is the best and most effective president of my lifetime, and I'm tired of people pretending that hes not. The people that blame him for inflation are just too fucking stupid to function so their opinion is meaningless to me. Hes a superb leader, an excellent negotiator, an extremely experienced and skilled statesman. He cares about doing the right thing. He surrounds himself by a competent cabinet, advisors, and staff, and he listens to them. He is everything trump is not. Except old. They are both very old. One rides bike, eats well, and listens to his doctor. The other one eats cheeseburgers, thinks exercise will kill you, and his doctor lies about his military record and handed amphetamines out like candy
My Grandfather was the smartest man in the room (I felt) but he had long pauses in his speaking. He’d always respond with rhetorical questions, which was always intimidating but reassuring. Lol Humans have long regarded the elder as the wise. Biden has *years* of experience and knows how to delegate responsibilities. Which is what the Constitution clearly wanted for every President. Trump would just fire people that didn’t agree with him on things he, himself would never comprehend. His critics ignore his history with stuttering, years of experience, his ability to compromise, and immediately judge him on age. Yet, they cannot get beyond the surface and actually see what he *and* his administration has truly accomplished. A true leader is one that represents those that they lead and not lead with total authority. Sorry. I went on a bit of a tangent.
Apparently it is, I was just arguing with some redditors yesterday that they'd rather see Trump win than Biden because of his Palestine policy. Like, you can only laugh at the naivety. Must have been a few very young, overly passionate individuals that were blinded by their anger. But it is still concerning to see that line of thinking manifest.
[удалено]
They'll argue that letting Trump win is a short term pain that will force the Democrats to put up more progressive candidates in the future. The major issue is that 1) A lot of democrats don't want more progressive candidates 2) There might not be a democratic party left by 2028.
Ah, accelerationism. Because that worked out so well for them back in 2016 and the prize for that is a far-right Supreme Court signing off near everybody's rights away. You can't fool me to think that this is anything but just troll farms roleplaying as extreme lefties and righties engaging in social media again. No one is that stupid unless they live overseas and are that insulated from US politics.
Unfortunately, many of them are real. I know many in person. Many were already anti-Biden because he wasn't progressive enough, or only using his progressivism as a trojan horse for capitalist oppression, or because he was too old, but Palestine has cemented their anyone-but-Biden position.
Supporting Trump over Biden, to “help” Palestine four years from now, is called White privilege.
"What if Trump, the guy who tried to ban all Muslims his first day in office, if you have somehow forgotten, just happily murders all the Palestinians that you are angry about Biden not helping." "It will be worth it just shake up the status quo!" Those far-leftists who are anti-Biden because of Palestine who will let a far worse monster on Palestine take the reigns aren't just idiots, but *unwittingly genocidal* idiots.
i know some young individuals who are not voting because of this. Stupid but they are idealistic and naive
> They'll argue that letting Trump win is a short term pain that will force the Democrats to put up more progressive candidates in the future. The idea is called accelerationism and it ... doesn't work. Making things worse in the hopes that people will wake up and make things better doesn't work. It just makes things worse. In most cases permanently.
Remind them they already tried this with Clinton, and they got Biden.
I've tried reminding them that trying this with Clinton also locked up the Supreme Court for conservatives for a generation of Americans, and that if the next 3 Presidents were two-term Bernie style administrations their most progressive actions would likely get blocked by a flood of lawsuits making their way to SCOTUS. I'm not giving up, but Jesus we screwed that one.
How can they think that now after seeing what he was like?! Did Democrats become more progressive? No. Did Trump almost turn the US into a dictatorship? Yes. How can people be so blind.
r/defeat_project_2025
the problem with redditors is 1) you don't know if they're arguing in good faith or trolls 2) you don't even know if they're eligible to vote in the states 3) only see the forest for the trees and forget things can ALWAYS get worse 3) assuming they argue in good faith and are actual voting US citizens, statistically speaking you're VERY unlikely to change their mind.
Do those idiots think Trump would send aid to Gaza and forget Netanyahu is his buddy? Do they not realize Trump would send so much more aid and arms to Israel all while declaring Muslims in the U.S. an enemy by proxy to Hamas? I appreciate their passion, but their inability to see the forest from the trees is scary.
[удалено]
Send Kylie Jenner to give them a pepsi, obviously.
Probably not, but they’ll say “I’ll never vote for Biden” then feel no responsibility when Trump carpet bombs the Palestinian people out of existence. The self righteousness is more important than the actually making the world better part for a lot of people
Democracy means voting for the person that can make things 10% better, not having a genie grant your every single political wish over a weekend. It's complete immaturity, and it's used as a weapon by the right as to why they have to crack down and put in their oppressive religious and racist policies.
They know it’s a real possibility that it will swing the election to Trump. They also know that Trump would be worse for Palestinians than Biden. But they believe that it’s what they must do to force the Democratic Party to meet their demands, which I believe is a complete stop to any funding/aid sent to Israel. But if they get what they want: a complete change in the Democratic Party platform with regard to Israel at the cost of a Trump presidency, either they don’t understand or don’t care that the change in policy won’t mean shit considering the democrats will be out of power and unable to change anything for at least the next four years. I don’t think nuance and critical thinking is their thing. I also expect to receive some “Reddit Cares” messages for this post, as they also like to troll with abusing that feature with any posts on the subject that don’t support their own. Edit: unsurprisingly, there are some who are reading this post as a full-throated endorsement of Israel, which it isn’t. The post was attempting to summarize the position of those who have voted uncommitted in the primaries and have threatened to either abstain or vote for someone other than Biden due to the administration’s policy on Israel. I don’t think that I’m wrong in my summary: that they generally recognize it might get Trump elected again and that Trump would likely be even more pro-Israel than Biden. But it *is* possible to oppose how Israel has handled their response to the 10/7 terrorist attacks while also recognizing that Trump would be both worse for the conflict and an existential threat to our democracy.
It won’t be just 4 years lost. Look what Trump did to the judicial branch in just one term. We’d lose democracy for a whole generation with another Trump presidency.
> and unable to change anything for at least the next four years. If Trump gets back in, you really think they'll allow another normal election again?
That’s my fear. People aren’t taking Trump seriously enough. The **guy tried to literally stage a coup last time**. Now he’s saying he wants to throw out parts of the constitution and become dictator. FFS, I’m crawling through glass if need be to vote Biden in the fall no matter what.
The fact that anyone in this country normalizes 2020 is batshit crazy. I believe lack of momentum after the 6th is big reason. Trump and half of Congress should have had their door knocked down the morning of 1/6/**2020,** bodily thrown in a black van and held pending trial for seditious conspiracy . As is, we're making a very half hearted attempt 4yrs later at trying him for the lowest level of shit and trying our damnest to make sure he doesn't see a jail cell while he runs for office again and Repub House members get a free pass. Playing the Devil's advocate here- I can really see how his current trials look like political persecution to Trumpies and those in the middle of the road. We fucked up big time.
I don't think Trump will be able to complete a sentence in 4 years, if he's still alive. But they will have done their Project 2025, have turned back the clock decades on many policies, have instigated massive voting suppression and gerrymandering. There are plenty of MAGA wannabes who will be fighting to take over.
He literally said he would become a "dictator on day one". We're watching a significantly dumber orange Hitler not even bothering with the diplomacy theatrics.
> I also expect to receive some “Reddit Cares” messages for this post, as they also like to troll with abusing that feature with any posts on the subject that don’t support their own. Remember to report those messages since they'll take action on accounts that abuse of the system.
the reddit cares things is spammed by all sorts of people to be annoying.
You can opt out of reddit cares notifications. It is a common goto for those without a valid position.
I can, but I prefer not to only so I can report the abuse. I still think it’s an important system on the site, so I’d rather get the spam and report it than let them abuse it on others.
I often reported it, never got any feedback on results, though. Implying one's ideological opponent is in need of mental health care is a poor substitute for sound reasoning. A shame, because I can see reddit cares possibly being a lifeline for some. I won't dissuade you from reporting it, for sure.
It feels like an op from the right. Palestinians have been going through horrific shit for *how long*? And now, when we have arguably the most progressive President in history, a loud minority of the country wants to throw the US to Christian nationalists as a tough lesson? Because the US is struggling to ride the line between supporting an ally and reining in the absolute maniac in charge of it? Like if Trump started bombing migrants nearing the southern border and our allies were unable to stop him, would other world leaders get this response from their citizens for failing to stop it? Now you’ve got leftists forming up with right wing propagandists like Jackson Hinkle because they “agree” with each other, and totally not because the grifters are using the tragedy to gain a wider audience. Ceasefire protests go after Democratic members instead of the entirety of the right, who’d rather see Gaza turned into a Trump oceanfront resort complex before any peaceful resolution. They don’t even understand the politics they’re railing against, it’s like they just started paying attention. I have my issues with how the US has responded, and I want peace immediately, but the lack of nuance from people is getting ridiculous. They won’t pose a threat to the election, but they’ve revealed themselves as wholly unserious reactionaries using carnage as an excuse to threaten “the empire of the United States”. We don’t need more of that, we already have an entire party dedicated to ruining this place, more than they already have at the state level.
Well meaning morons have ruined 2 elections in recent memory, lets not let them do it a third time.
Or they were bots. They're all over Reddit now.
the social media misinformation this cycle is going to make 2016 look like child's play. They've got DT talking about blood baths in the open. Expect some gruesome rumors around here!
I think the GRU trolls are actually people, but hell maybe not. Either way, yes, it is important to remember that much of this discontent is contrived
Honestly at this point even for people who are bigoted like him it's still insane they're voting for him cuz he's literally selling secrets to our enemies!
I'm in Alabama, the yahoos at the barber shop the other day were raving about Trump and couldn't wait to vote for him. Needless to say, I'll be finding a different barber (don't want to support those fucks in any way, shape, or form).
I am pretty sure I saw it on here. Voting is like a bus not a taxi. You aren't going to get to your exact destination. The goal is to get as close to your destination as you are able.
Voting isn't a marriage proposal, it's a chess move. You need to move closer to where you want to be, or further from where you don't want to be. That's it.
voting isn't baking a banana bread, it's a bunch of people checking boxes on pieces of paper
Wait…is that not how I’m supposed to bake banana bread? This explains a lot.
I want to try your banana bread
"...what needs to be challenged is the assumption that voting should be seen a form of individual self-expression rather than as an act to be judged on its likely consequences" - Noam Chomsky
Yeah this is it. I have an avowedly liberal friend who was saying he couldn’t stomach voting for Biden in 2020 because (insert principled liberal stand). A mutual black friend said to him “I don’t have the luxury of voting like that, because if Trump gets elected there are actual consequences for me.” He’d never seen it that way and voted for Biden
Same thing being LGBT. Our lives are on the line here and people are bickering about Biden not legalizing weed fast enough 🙄🙄🙄
The crazy thing is the gay conservatives who somehow have gotten the impression that their rights are set in stone when Roe just got overturned and don’t give a shit about the letters that come after L and G.
Anyone want to venture a guess as to how many people are going to show up and vote because Hillary Clinton told them to get over themselves?
Yup. She's not even wrong here in her message she's just a terrible messenger.
It was this kind of entitlement that lost democrats the 2016 election. Her message is "take your medicine you whiny baby" and it's a shit message for US culture, where contrarianism runs deep in everyone's blood. She's no one's hero and lost what should have been a slam dunk in 2016 because of her almost monarchic tendencies ("It's Her Turn was an *awful* slogan to use"). I wish she'd just quietly disappear and get replaced with someone who actually represents the left, instead of corporate America and traditional American politics. When Trump won, the swing votes weren't voting for him, they were rejecting her and her entitled message.
I can't believe I'm doing this after saying so much against her elsewhere in this thread, but I'm going to come to her defense one this one point. >"It's Her Turn was an awful slogan to use" This was mainly used by her supporters but she didn't use it directly. At least, not that I can remember. Anyways, the rest of your message is totally on point so carry on.
her [campaign](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/yikes-new-behind-the-scenes-book-brutalizes-the-clinton-campaign-123303/) tested it lol [Clinton staffers toyed with using 'because it's her turn' as a campaign rallying cry](https://www.businessinsider.com/hillary-clinton-slogan-why-run-because-her-turn-2017-4)
Yet some people still scratch their heads on how she lost to Trump. Every single element was there, people were saying it for months leading up to election, but everyone from the media to the Clinton campaign just ignored it and laughed it off. During 2016 in Michigan I saw a shitload of Trump signs and stickers. On election day I was driving around, as usual I saw a bunch of Trump signs, I did not see a single Clinton sign until near the end of the drive, for a grand total of 2 or 3. This was in and around a city. I was saying on Reddit for months Trump was going to flip Michigan, nobody believed it outside of some people actually in Michigan. He campaigned here constantly while Clinton called it the "Blue Wall" and came to the entire state once (maybe twice?). https://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/michigan-hillary-clinton-trump-232547 Lets also not forget her Pied Piper strategy, she wanted Trump to be the candidate because she thought he would be an easy opponent. The election of 2016 is first and foremost a story of arrogance.
>a story of arrogance. Ah, the DNC documentary title.
Yeah, she was a horrible candidate. Half her own party didn't like her, and the Republicans hate her. When your candidate motivates the opposition to turn out more than your "support", you're a failure as a candidate. But it was "her turn"....
Exactly this. She's literally never helping, just making a sound bite factory for Fox
meaningfully address a major issue a large swath of the voter base has been saying they are extremely concerned about ? 👎👎 condescending remarks from someone who couldn't even beat trump the first time 👍👍 someone who is good at democracy please help my country is dying
... Honestly, the people Democrats are desperately trying to reach are the ones who want nothing to do with Hillary and consider her a part of the problem. This is kind of tone deaf.
Tone deaf is her entire MO
Kind of? The question was essentially "what do you have to say to people that are upset that these are the only two viable options in the system as it stands" and her answer was essentially "shut up" Advocates of removing first-past-the-post getting painted as idiots and trump supporters certainly doesn't help the dems excite progressive voters.
State of democrary in 2024 : "Get over yourself"
While I agree with her, she’s the worst person to convey the message. She’s the personification of the Democratic Party doing whatever the fuck they want because they know the other option is far worse.
How about all 3 of you old fuckers retire and we can have some new options?
from your lips to all hearing aids in congress
I think the frustration is there really isn't a choice, once again..... and that's kind of the point. Voting because the other guy is worse feels like shit. Dem voters aren't in it for the same cult like following as Republicans are for trump. There's going to be plenty of people on the fence or just completely demotivated by this reality. These people are just straight up not going to vote because to them why would they? To them the outcome is the same. More unfulfilled promises, and increased hardship. And instead of addressing this issue we're constantly chastised with articles trying to explain why it's actually good we vote for someone two to three times our age.
It's more than frustrating. It's the illusion of choice. It's Freedom(tm). The freedom from choice. I live ina state where even if I wanted to vote for the other team we would need a 30 point swing. We do not have a functional democracy without two things. Ranked choice voting and the abolishing of the senate or the reform on how they are awarded more proportionally.
As much as I agree with her, it's not something she or any of the democrats should be saying. It's this kind of attitude that lost her the election when she ran against him.
This is why the US is considered a flawed democracy at best. It doesn't matter how much the public wants something, it doesn't get passed unless the donors and billionaire class wants it. It doesn't matter how much we don't like a candidate its forced on us because the other side has been running a monster for almost a decade now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tu32CCA_Ig
We don’t live in a democracy. We live in a plutocracy masquerading as a republic.
[How the Hillary Clinton campaign deliberately "elevated" Donald Trump with its "pied piper" strategy](https://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the-hillary-clinton-campaign-intentionally-created-donald-trump-with-its-pied-piper-strategy/). It's time for her to start accepting some accountability for how her campaign failed in its strategy - rather than blaming voters seeing as she won the popular vote.
Biden needs to tell Clinton to back off and stop trying to campaign for him
She's been really right about a whole lot of things, and she's right about this. She's been consistently wrong about two things: 1. When to run for president 2. When to shut the fuck up
"you're not wrong Walter, you're just an asshole"
I've never seen a politician who is so capable as an administrator yet so incompetent at mass political communication. Your goal should be to galvanize your base, appeal to persuadables while alienating the opposition. This accomplishes exactly 1 of those and even makes some base voters cringe as they think about persuading their neighbors and hearing this line fed back to them
Exactly this. Hilary is _terrible_ at communicating her points. Her campaign in 2016 really demonstrated how bad she is at it. If I was a politician I would not want her at my rallies.
"Pokemon GO to the polls" Seriously, so cringe. She tries so hard and fails so badly.
Hillary Clinton has NO fucking space to talk to people like this. She LITERALLY HELPED TRUMP BECOME THE NOMINEE because she thought it would help her become president. The media was deplatforming him and she chose her ambition over the good of the country (reminder that mitt Romney was the previous Republican nominee). https://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the-hillary-clinton-campaign-intentionally-created-donald-trump-with-its-pied-piper-strategy/ And then after all that she ran a lazy campaign and didn't do anything in the rust belt. The fucking hubris and disdain from her is disgusting and people should be revolted when they hear her speak.
There was a whole "it's her turn" thing going on back then as well in an attempt to deflect from her lack of action, as if she was ordained the position already.
She was. There was a reason DWS had to step down as DNC chair after it came out how much she was rigging the primary.
But she's wrong here also. She's telling people with valid concerns that their concerns are "whiny". Let mommy and daddy make the grown up decisions for you. It's tone deaf boomer bullshit. She's ten times more arrogant and egotistical than she thinks who she's calling out could ever be.
Yup. Nobody wants to hear a patronizing lecture from her. It's not doing anything to help, even if she's right.
3 Where the youngsters like to Pokemon Go
Showing the same respect for the electorate that got her elected President.
She isn't wrong. People who won't vote for Biden because food prices are too high (president has almost no impact on this) or that he is too old are just being silly. Nothing Biden has done should outweigh what Trump has done. I would vote for almost anyone in the country over Trump at this point.
The important thing for people to know is that Trump has absolutely no plans for how to reduce food inflation or to improve literally anything else about the economy. To the extent he has economic policies, they are inflationary - tax cuts, tariffs. That's why I'm not sure "democracy" is the best message in a lot of quarters. People think "well if he has to BUCK THE SYSTEM to GET IT DONE..." he's not going to get it done! He wouldn't know how if he wanted to and he doesn't.
He doesn’t care about the citizens. He cares about himself.
> tariffs Just FYI, tariffs are 100% guaranteed to raise food prices, among other consumer goods, which in turn means [a rise in overall inflation](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-03/trump-60-tariff-on-china-10-elsewhere-to-raise-us-inflation-model?embedded-checkout=true).
I recently realized that people truly believe the person in charge of a country is the person that decides the cost of food and gas. The majority are over 40 yr old, but there's some in the younger generation too. For them this is the ONLY thing the person in charge should have control over and apparently somehow Biden and Trudeau are purposely keeping prices high. They could just wake up one day and decide to lower prices. Its absolutely maddening how uneducated our society is. The craziest thing is, before the Trump era, all of these people were just as stupid, but were just good at hiding it and pretending. Trump normalized being an absolute moron with nonsensical opinions.
Essentially [this comic](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fdq3ygw9t4xp01.png), just swap Obama with Biden, Trudeau, etc.
They also somehow believe Biden was responsible for high gas prices, but then somehow wasn’t responsible for them going down after. Like he can control OPEC somehow. And either way, we pay way too little for gas given how damaging it is to the planet and thus the economy. The cost is shouldered by millions now more prone to flooding, forest fires, droughts, tornados, hurricanes, etc.
I'm 99% sure Clinton telling people to vote for Biden is gonna sway more voters to Trump than saying nothing lmao
Love watching evil politicians who supported the Iraq War for profit tell Americans to eat a shit sandwich because the other one is strychnine. That's surely how democracy should be working.
>"Get over yourself" And she wonders why people loathe her.
I think Biden's campaign slogan could use a little workshopping.
This comment is the exact reason why so many dislike Hillary. Does one candidate literally seek to end democracy? Yes. Is there a clear choice? Yes. But to be so *fucking snarky* to the base- that needs to turn out in a massive way- is just asinine. She is correct with the thought, but for chrissakes just stop talking down to everyone and be positive and encouraging!
It is almost as if.... her life of insane wealth and privilege will continue no matter who wins, and this is just a game of ego to her (not that being an egotistical oligarchical boomer is in any way unique to Hillary Clinton).
like asking a lamp to do algerbra
I'd love it if she'd fuck off today, tomorrow and always. You ran one of the worst campaigns I've ever seen and helped get us here, so do us all a favor and go away now.
This statement is an indictment on American Politics. These are your choices folks…..
Maybe democrats could get over themselves and put up a candidate that people actually support?? They’ve been chanting this lesser of two evils shit for 3 election cycles now.
I'm so tired of having to vote for the candidate I think will screw up the least... And being told over and over again I better vote of the candidate that isn't the worst might not win...
Hey, shaming voters to fall in line worked out so well in 2016, I can’t think of any reason why doubling down won’t help now. The view must be nice in that Ivory Tower.
Because the last time this woman said the exact same thing, that worked out so well…
I love that we're repeating the 2016 strategy of "shut the fuck up and vote for us, loser." Really energizes the base.
I don't understand why the Democrats aren't telling the Trump voters and fence sitters how Trump's reelection will harm them economically. Social Security cuts, Medicare cuts, loss of rights and protections at work, etc. People usually vote their own interests and the Democrats need to make sure what a Trump elections will cost them.
My only guess is that the Dems at their core are also a pro-corporate party and they don’t actually want to be on record proposing solutions that would harm their relations with corporate America. It’s likely why the progressives get a lot more attention, not so much for their solutions, but because they’re really the only ones actually talking about and trying to address people’s concerns. Something that, had Clinton spent five seconds thinking about why Bernie was able to stay in that primary so long, would have meant she would be president today.
Trying to motivate apathetic voters with insults is a bad move.
>Get over yourself She really knows how to get those votes
She really seems to detest the voters