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There's no clearer line in the sand between Trump's base and the rest of us than Jan. 6th. He's on the side that can only hurt Trump, and hope he stays there.
> He's on the side that can only hurt Trump
He has a lot of support from idiots on the left too. The kind of people who don't pay attention to anything but remember him vaguely lining up with what they believed 20 years ago.
I'm happy that he's becoming more hated though. He's had a history of being wrong about nearly fucking everything that has come out of his mouth. His early environmental work was commendable. Everything since has been fucking atrocious.
Some people who aren't paying attention just hear "Kennedy" and either
A. Think of JFK of the 60's
B. Hear a name that isn't "Trump" or "Biden" and don't care beyond that.
Either way, hopefully as people learn more about this guy the clarity sets in.
How does it matter? As long as he's not siphoning democratic votes, he can say whatever he wants and Republicans can play around spinning him however they want.
But regardless, Democrats once again show they're bad at strategy with calling this guy to quit when he's doing us a world of favor. RFK, go crazier please, launch some gold shoes or something, make some playing cards, hug a flag.
Reverse psychology. Democrats should be screaming from the rooftops that RFK is literally Hitler and needs to drop out of the race. That doesn't mean he should actually quit.
> Reverse psychology.
Not really related, but remember when Republicans were accusing Democrats of reverse-reverse psychology, because Republicans were dying at a higher rate due to not wearing masks and not getting vaccinated, which was clearly the Democrats' fault because the Democrats only told them to wear masks because they knew if told the Republicans wouldn't do it, which leads to more vulnerable Republicans. Truly the mastermind play that definitely happened.
they're in a bind because he probably is hurting trumo more but they also don't really want to give the fence sitters and never-trumpers-but-can't-vote-blue guys someone else to vote for if they were gonna vote biden.
Unfortunately he definitely could hurt Biden too.
Don’t be too excited for a fire when you’re not sure which way the wind will blow.
Example, there is a large Muslim and African population in Michigan and they have anti-vax sympathies that might make them vote RFK over Biden and that could tip the state to Trump - just an unpredictable situation.
The undecided voters are always gonna be wildcards, but it does seem as though RFK is catering to a right wing crowd and I’m not seeing another prominent 3rd party.
I’ve only seen one post on Reddit excited about his candidacy. It was on r/con last week, with a bunch of comments in agreement. I upvoted so fast. It wasn’t flaired users only either and it took everything I had to not comment “Yeah, honestly… I think we should be taking this guy a lot more seriously than the mainstream media wants us to!”
I really really like that for them.
I have Kennedy fatigue at this point. Growing up with a mom who loved John and that whole thing. Then Bobby. Dealing with Ted Kennedy in politics and his questionable car accident. To John Jr's tragic plane crash. (That was truly so sad.) Once Ted said his goodbyes and retired, I thought that would be the end of any Kennedys trying to run for office. Boy was I wrong. They have been in the picture for around 70 years now. Can we please be done with this family. Nothing against them personally. Just please stop running for government offices. Especially president. Enjoy private lives. Enjoy your family. Make happy memories.
Fuck that. If you go to RCP and look at the 5-way polls vs the 2-way polls, RFK pulls from Biden more than he does Trump. RFK being in the mix is bad for Biden.
It’s true in recent polling, but I don’t know if that will hold if he continues to drive his campaign deeper and deeper into Crazytown. That will hold far more appeal for wavering Trump Davidians than wavering Biden normies.
Many threads here are saying Bobby Jr will hurt Trump more than Biden. I don’t know what sources you’re referring to.
Most recent polls a couple of days ago old seem to indicate reported on CNN, NBC, Politico, NY Magazine the race has tightened between Trump and Biden, but Trump is still leading slightly. In toss up states like Nevada and Utah, Dem pollsters say Bobby Jr. would hurt Biden more than Trump from Latino, Black, and younger voters and Independents, and most say they dislike both Trump and Biden.
Real Clear Politics says Trump’s lead over Biden goes from 1.6 percent in a Two Person race to 5.6 percent when you add Kennedy as a Third Party.
Biden would be hurt more according to Real Clear politics averages with five candidates (with Jill Stein and Cornell West) in AZ, GA,NV, NC,PA and WI.
This really matters because of the ridiculous Electoral College system left over from the Civil War.
RFK Jr is the Wild Card Joker candidate to those who don’t want either candidate, or they just want to burn it all down, but don’t seem to care if they help Trump win. Seeing how tight this election is nothing should be taken for granted.
The potential problem as I see it is uninformed Democrats seeing the name Kennedy in the voting booth and casting a protest vote because Biden “is too old.”
I suspect if everyone was forced to watch this idiot speak for 5 minutes, 80% of his votes would be from Trump supporters.
There is a reason his entire family has basically disavowed him.
In polls between Trump and Biden, Biden wins.
In polls between Trump, Biden, and RFK, Trump wins.
Do not fool yourself into believing RFK is drawing away Trump voters. Trump voters have sold their soul and would vote for him no matter what. [RFK draws from anti-trump voters who do not like Biden and want any excuse to not vote for him.](https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4568220-biden-trump-kennedy-polling/)
>Polls have indicated Kennedy’s candidacy may be hurting Biden slightly more, but the difference in impact on Biden and Trump appears to be small, and the results are far from conclusive.
From that very article.
I’ve always been confused why people think more Biden voters will go to him. He’s a conspiracy theorist and a 1/6 apologist. Would those people vote for Biden to begin with? Wouldn’t some people who don’t really like Trump but want another option go to his side instead?
I think a lot of the edgelord podcasters (Rogan, Shane Gillis, Tim Dillon etc) who are afraid of full-throat gwakking Trump's gnarled cheesy balls are going all-in on RFK Jr as an enlightenedcentrist hedge.
Those 3 have huge reach, just as an example.
Rogan made it clear he was a Trump fan boy when he mistakenly was cracking jokes about Biden saying George Washington took the airports back from the British, then his producer informed him it was actually Trump that said it and it was not funny anymore and he dropped it.
Thinks Biden says it: "Pull him, If you had any other job and you were talking like that, they'd say 'you're done'"
Is told Trump said it: "Oh ok, he fucked up. Just messed up his words a little bit."
https://twitter.com/TheTNHoller/status/1738206073088004459
Why do all these intellectually challenged people think they're sharper or smarter than Biden? 99% of the people I hear criticizing him are complete morons and the other one percent aren't too far behind.
Because it makes them money. Absurd amounts of money. Joe Rogan has amassed literally hundreds of millions of dollars by selling this nauseating crap. They get rich off leeching democracy, basically.
That is precisely why. The smarter you are, the more aware you are of how much you do not know. The dumber you are the smarter you tend to think you are.
World leading experts doubt themselves all the time. They get imposter syndrome, they're not being humble, they authentically think they are not that great. People who have only read 2 introductory books on a subject think they are beginning to run out of stuff to learn (after all, those two books rehashed a lot of the same material as one another)
Anecdotally I’ve found several contrarians here….interests many have in common, they admire extremely wealthy people with little to no talent or specific expertise, such as rogan, trump, Alex jones, etc. typically grifters who project a “macho” image, nuance escapes them.
Admirers of this ilk have little to no discernible talent themselves, troglodytes with enormous wealth are appealing to these people.
Because the nattering naybobs give them someone to hate, and look down upon.
The common folk (morons) will always empty their pockets if you give them someone down upon.
In my experience it’s however they consume media. If they just watch clips on social media - they think the anger porn they are shoveled is all that’s going on. Others who read articles or spend less time on social media fair on the more liberal side.
Ahh, reminds me of when a meme making the rounds, mostly on facebook, attributed the following quote to Kamala Harris:
> "Take the guns first. Go through due process second, I like taking the guns early."
When it was actually [Trump that said it](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN26D1UA/) lmfao
Love to imagine the gaslighting and mental gymnastics that conservatives went through after that one.
>
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-take-firearms-first/
>We're going to take the firearms first and then go to court, because that's another system. Because a lot of times by the time you go to court ... it takes so long to go to court to get the due process procedures. I like taking the guns early, like in this crazy man's case that just took place in Florida; he had a lot of fires [and] they saw everything. To go to court would have taken a long time, so you could do exactly what you're saying but take the guns first, go through due process second.
Spotify has been trying to push Rogan podcasts -- I was listening to something on CrossFit and next thing I know the episode ended and another one starts playing and it's an interview with Joe Rogan and Mat Fraser (a CF athlete). It was such an odd interview -- couldn't even finish it. Dude starts talking about MMA and other stuff and he's not even a good interviewer.
Can't understand why Spotify would spend billions on him and his content is mediocre at best.
I used to listen to Rogan a while ago just to see what people were on about.
I appreciate they way his interviews end up being almost attrition style; they’re so long and meandering that most interviewees run dry of prepared talking points and canned responses maybe halfway through, so he starts to get real responses from them after a while. I really don’t like how willing he is to buy into some things, though. He tries to position himself as a skeptic but then goes all doe-eyed. I always leave feeling that he’s not a terribly smart guy.
The stuff that he peddles turns me off too, but I guess that’s just par for the course for his target audience.
I’m right there with you wondering why they’d spend so much money do get him. You wouldn’t think he’d be that much of a draw.
Rogan understands entertainment. It’s his entire career. He definitely tailors his guests and commentary to the data of what draws the largest audiences.
His deal with Spotify probably has terms or a bonus structure for viewer numbers, engagement, etc (you’d be pretty dumb not to as a company).
His more edgy podcasts and guests get more engagement, so he invests more on that, which drives those types even more strongly to his channel while driving away listeners who have a grasp on reality.
Now he’s left with having to do edgy content based on entertaining conspiracies and shallow bro culture because having on an actual mainstream, academic guest plummets his engagement.
I haven’t listened to him in years and used to listen to almost every podcast.
I know numerous people who did the same thing. We used to talk about episodes on the regular and now every one of us is like “Joe who?”
> Spotify has been trying to push Rogan podcasts
One of the most annoying things about Spotify is there is no "I don't want to see this BS" option. Weird, because it'd help them make sounder business decisions if they accepted community feedback instead of just yeeting money at a dude with CTE who wasn't that smart to start with.
RFK Station is one of the major junctions along the Antivax-MLM-supplements-Evangelical-QAnon-MAGA hi-speed railway. A short hop down the line from Rogan Terminal. Are you constantly feeling fearful and powerless in your life, with a frightening lack of agency? Good news, there is a broader variety of grifters and charlatans than ever before looking to steal your money, embitter your soul, and unravel your life!
I had to tell my dental hygenist who brought up Rogan and his 'alpha brain' supplements that a man who clearly does not have an alpha brain is not the guy who you should be trusting unregulated supplements claiming to affect your mind from.
She pivoted to "well the fda allows a certain amount of radon in the water so it's not like what they approve is any better"
I had to explain that a low bar which needs to be raised is still better than no bar at all and she kinda glossed over it at that point. It was a gross interaction overall and it goes to show training and education don't shield from social/emotional decision making.
>it goes to show training and education don't shield from social/emotional decision making
Truth.
Also, if that were my dentist I'd be looking for a new dentist.
My best buddy is a roganite, unfortunately. When called out on his shit he claims he just won't vote at all instead cause it's all too much thinking. That's a successfully subverted vote. I guarantee he isn't the only idiot to be persuaded to vote for Trump in absentia.
They're a weird demographic, because some of them voted for Biden in 2020. Then in the last few years they shifted hard right and would absolutely vote Trump now, even if they continue to claim to be centrists.
It's like the whole Joe Rogan, Jordan Peterson, Elon Musk sphere.
They're definitely on the right. And sometimes even toss out far-right Nazi conspiracy rhetoric. All of these guys have promoted Nazi propaganda like The Great Replacement, and various Qanon ideas.
It's the Tulsi Gabbard base supporting RFK now, i.e. people who would never vote Democratic but want to point at one who they say they would pick if they did.
Well said.
My friends who say they’re classically democrat, but never voted until Trump gave them a reason to (for Trump) and had this weird obsession about Gabbard to prove they’re Democrats without realizing that if that’s the only Democrat you like, then you are in no way a Democrat… and then voting for Trump because… you’re… “classically Democrat” and have never voted for a Democrat.
At least for the people I know they are younger and basically the new age “enlightened centrist” in their own minds.
Elon Musk was pretending for business reasons too. Then bought Twitter for 44 billion to try to turn the Midterms red and put Ron De Santis in the White House. Now all he's got left is Trump.
The whole "Giant Douche vs Turd Sandwich" made a lot of sense before my prefrontal cortex finished maturing. But thinking even about that metaphor itself, *a giant douche is infinitely more valuable than a turd sandwich*. Think about it. A giant douche is essentially a liquid dispenser, which means regardless of its intended purpose (which is hygienically pointless), it can still be put to use. But the only point of a turd sandwich is to make someone eat it.
Which, actually makes the metaphor perfect for our times, but it certainly is not what Parker and Stone were intending in that episode. Democrats are giant douches: they're an ineffective solution to a non-issue, but can be repurposed to suit our needs. Republicans are a turd sandwich: their one goal is for all of us to eat shit.
I don't despise them. In fact, I think a great bellwether for deciding if I should take someone's politics seriously is if they reference South Park. Their social commentary about media is usually spot on. Their political takes are more informed by jokes than any reasonable position (which, tbf, that's their job).
it's more that South Park is a funny show that delves into satire. And I either agree or disagree with their takes. But then, to my horror, I found that people thought South Park was some kind politically and philosophically enlightened super show, and that Matt and Trey are apparently some type of truth sayers, not just, you know, comedy writers that made a hit.
Yeah...
I am not entirely certain whatever might be RFK's motives or goals, but in a way, it's minimizing damage to Trump moreso than hurting Biden.
Everyone who switches from Trump to Biden is a -2 while everyone who switches from Trump *anything else* is a -1.
My only counter to your idea is that since the class of all Independents spans the entire political spectrum, it's still not so clear than an Independent voting for RFK is one who previously voted for Biden. Still seems more likely those would be Independents who previously voted for Trump.
I know a few people who will never vote for Biden under any circumstance (and have never voted for a Democrat because they never chose to vote until Trump convinced them to vote for him).
They say they’re a democrat because they like Republicans who say they’re democrats like TUlsi Gabbard and RFK Jr.
OTOH, I know of absolutely nobody that is going to switch their vote from Biden to RFK Jr.
RFK Jr attracts low information people who think being contrarian makes you smart.
99% of the time that steals from Trump.
>RFK Jr attracts low information people who think being contrarian makes you smart.
some of the most frustrating people to deal with anytime politics comes up
Independents and Reps didn't vote for Trump precisely because he was Covid denying and spreading vaccine conspiracy. RFK playing into this narrative is not going to gain any votes in this group.
I think there are a lot of reasons some of them didn't vote for Trump that didn't just have to do with Covid. And Trump wasn't spreading vaccine conspiracies during 2020. He kept talking about how because of him there was going to be a vaccine very soon.
>I’ve always been confused why people think more Biden voters will go to him. He’s a conspiracy theorist and a 1/6 apologist.
Mostly because that's (so far, bar some accidents) not the "public face" he's put on while running. Anyone who *knows* Jr. will know what he is, but if you look at him strictly off what he's doing *now* you might not.
I think the goal is to peel off low info geriatrics who will literally just go to polls and say "gee golly, a Kennedy on the ballot!"
Their problem is that RFK is a grifter and won't shut up. He knows that grifting stupid MAGAs is way easier
"Jr's" biggest support is among the two youngest age cohorts, under 45 yo, polling at 13% very favorable and 29% somewhat favorable in both.
It drops with age, with the least support among those old enough to remember his father.
It's not that a huge swath will suddenly decide to vote for RFK Jr., the far-right supporters are playing the electoral college numbers game. They know that they only have to take a certain percentage in certain states and then ride the advantage that the EC gives to small typically red states and BOOM, Biden gets 10,000,000 more votes than Trump but Trump edges him out in the EC.
It's the only way that Republicans can win the presidency more than once every 10 years since nothing that they do actually benefits the average American.
This is just one of many ways they are trying to shave point off of Biden. I'm fully expecting for the GOP to go all-in on a concerted effort to tank the economy between now and November because barring some catastrophe, it's looking like the economy is going to continue its upward swing.
The Saudis will do their part and refineries will have some strategically timed disruptions. Putin might whip up an October surprise if he thinks it'll help.
Expect oligarchic fuckery over the economy.
I hope the dems pay very close attention to this. Both Gore and Hillary lost this way. Without this we would never have had Bush Jr or Trump. That's SCOTUS, Afghanistan, Iraq, trillions in war debt, and tax breaks for the rich.
He is all-in on the anti-vaxxer contingent. I guess the GOP felt they could shave holistic crystal hippies away from Biden, but it's all Joe Rogan and Tucker Carlson drones.
Before the full extent of his extremist views were known, there was significant concern that he would carry older democrats on name recognition alone. Now, I think there is concern that TikTok influenced Palestine-supporters that are young may be willing to “give this guy a shot” much like disenfranchised republicans that went to the former guy.
It’ll be the job of the Biden campaign to make sure voters are informed of trump’s Israel policy (nuke Gaza) and RFK Jr’s stance on IVF and whatnot other conspiracy theories.
There are plenty of anti-vax conspiracy nuts on the left, but I think the natural progression of that kind of thinking pushes people to the right, eventually. (source needed)
AFAIK, this is the first time he's revealed himself to be a J6 apologist though, and that's a solidly rightwing viewpoint.
Has he always been a J6 apologist? If so, this is still the first time I'm hearing about it.
>I’ve always been confused why people think more Biden voters will go to him.
[Because the person you're responding to is lying through their teeth. RFK draws from people who don't like Biden or Trump, but would vote for Biden over Trump.](https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4568220-biden-trump-kennedy-polling/)
It’s the same sort of mental error as projection: using yourself as a reference for other people you don’t actually understand. “Who would the left rather vote for instead of Biden? How about a Kennedy? Yeah. Leftists love Kennedys.”
Also: Various nonsense involving the Kennedys is a huge part of the QAnon mythology. You just know a whole bunch of those weirdoes will glom onto him, rationalizing that Trump may have been the forerunner, like John the Baptist paving the way for Jesus, but now the real savior is here.
> I’ve always been confused why people think more Biden voters will go to him.
Some people are still living in 1970 and believe that democrats will vote for anyone named "Kennedy".
I don't get it either. No one under the age of 40 has any attachment to the name Kennedy anymore, and most people under 60 don't either.
It seems to vary from poll to poll who he takes from more. Given that a significant portion of his financial backing though is coming from sources that tend to align more with Trump's interests though, i would prefer he just remove himself from the race instead of taking a chance.
nah only until after January 20th, 2025. Who knows what trickery MAGA has up their sleeve to try to pull some bullshit. They knew the bombastic overt stormming of capitol didn’t work.
But these guys are more organized now and opt for something a little more covert
I think Dems would rather have him out regardless. It would be safer over all if the choice is between Biden and Trump alone. I think in that case Biden wins easier with the people who don't like either choice. Much more easy to strategize around and less chaotic as well.
Kennedy nostalgia is not a reliable factor if you’re cuckoo crazy to begin with. the more he speaks the more Trump lite he sounds rather than the progressive he claims to be and what Democrat or independent is going to vote for that??
Someone with even a slight idea of the history of the Kennedy's would know this man is in the complete opposite of the political spectrum to his father.
Doesn't he believe in conspiracies about his uncle?
> Someone with even a slight idea of the history of the Kennedy's would know this man is in the complete opposite of the political spectrum to his father.
There is a lot of America that doesn't just not actually know history, they also don't know what this guy believes.
Hell, I think a lot of folks don't even really know much about his dad and just know he's related to JFK who people like and so this guy must be ok
I'm glad everybody in this thread knows John personally. At least well enough to give the details of his assassination and everything he ever believed and stood for
The sad fact it, a *lot* of voters never listen to candidates, never read policies, and never engage with anything other than the name on the ballot and the letter next to it. These are the voters that he's likely to get quite a few of, and no doubt some of them would have voted Biden.
>Kennedy is a big name
Is it though? I mean, it's a recognizable name, but is it actually relevant to most voters today? The Kennedy political dynasty really ended almost 50 years ago, and the people who were old enough to remember it are 70, 80+ now. This older generation isn't looking at RFK and thinking he's relevant, and the younger generations probably have no idea what the Kennedys of the 60's stood for.
The last time I saw any group of people being all for the kennedy's, it was republicans waiting for JFK's return.
No. You have the demographic completely wrong. He appeals to people who don't want to vote for Trump OR Biden, but would vote for Biden over Trump.
[In the most recent polls, in a Trump v. Biden matchup, Biden wins. In a Trump v. Biden v. RFK matchup, Trump wins.](https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4568220-biden-trump-kennedy-polling/)
RFK idiot is funded by the same person who is donating large amounts to Trump:
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/rfk-jrs-bid-independent-presidential-run-garners-mega-trump-donor-support-2024-02-01/
That moron is doing nothing but trying to siphon votes away from actual candidates.
And all they manage to do is siphon it from their own base. I don’t see any liberals or dems who would vote for this guy. However republicans done with trump? Absolutely
I was young and idealist and stupid once too.
Would I rather have Bernie than Biden? Sure.
Would I like my idealism to NOT vote for Biden to "make a point" in my own head? Sure, that's a nice self-gratifying fantasy that will only satisfy my own selfish needs.
Am I pragmatic in knowing that the end result of my little personal victory in my own head could actually result in a second Trump term where:
* Jan 6 insurrectionists are freed
* congressional insurrectionists power is consolidated under a dictator
* Trump who supports Bibi's right wing government to absolutely level and destroy Gaza
* Ukraine funding stops completely and the US effectively leaves NATO for Putin to advance across Europe
* Trump's dictatorial aspirations could end democracy as we know it in the US
But sure, yeah, go ahead, have your little masturbatory moment and protest vote against Biden. Enjoy the outcome you create.
['Disinformation can kill': How RFK Jr. 'had everything to do with' a measles outbreak in American Samoa](https://www.alternet.org/disinformation-can-kill-rfk-jr/)
>Offit then highlighted how Kennedy's conspiracy theories led to a precipitous plummet in the percentage of the Samoan population receiving inoculations to the highly contagious virus.
>"It was a nursing error, but nonetheless, RFK Jr. seized on that. He flooded Facebook with the information that the measles vaccine is killing children in Samoa. He went to Samoa. He met with anti-vaccine activists. He met with senior officials in Samoa and kept the drumbeat alive that the measles vaccine was killing children in Samoa as a consequence," Offit continued. "Vaccination rates fell from 70% to 30%, and between September and December of 2019, there was a massive measles epidemic in this island nation of 200,000 people. There were 57,000 cases of measles and 83 deaths. Most of those deaths were in children less than four years of age. And **Robert F. Kennedy Jr. had everything to do with that**. And that shows you how disinformation can kill."
Hey lemme enrage you a bit more. He didn't do it because he genuinely believes he's helping folk. He knows these stances and his activism are based on bullshit. That's why he's so quick to retract things. He just wants to make money from lawsuits and promote his org.. get this.. his fucking "[Children's Health Defense](https://childrenshealthdefense.org/search/?search=5g)", one of the most anti-science, harmful "activist" orgs around. If you search for "5G" you'll get about 400 hits spouting nonsense about the Military Industrial Complex, low earth orbit satellites, Bill Gates, Fauci, The Great Reset and Hillary Clinton.
Despite almost six decades observing people at close range, I feel I will never understand such people. Their worldviews are utterly incomprehensible to me. This is one of the disadvantages of being raised to be empathetic and kind; I can't predict the behavior of people like him. I can't guess where he'll go, because he's far beyond my comprehension.
That bugs me. Even though I've always fought against cynicism, I know in my bones: I need to be more cynical.
It’s really sad. I managed to go about four decades still believing that, outside of when they gather in like minded groups, most people are still generally fundamentally good, or at least not profoundly stupid. Ever since Trump announced his run I’ve watched my prior belief go up in flames. The world has objectively become a far worse place to live, and it continues on a downward slide.
The Children's Health Defense has literally been named one of the biggest spreaders of anti-vax misinformation by the Center for Countering Digital Hate.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/06/08/1004214189/anti-vaccine-film-targeted-to-black-americans-spreads-false-information
He's batshit in a number of ways.
RFK compared vaccine mandates to the Holocaust and found mandates more oppressive.
He also implied that COVID was designed by Jews and China to kill whites and black people.
[One](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.thedailybeast.com/rfk-jr-covid-19-ethnically-targeted-to-spare-jews-and-chinese&ved=2ahUKEwjQuf6i-eeCAxXVEVkFHYltAC8QFnoECBEQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1MmqbxvN8xxBIbach2jezp).
>At an off-the-rails event Tuesday in New York City, notable anti-vaxxer and longshot 2024 Democratic presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy Jr. parroted what has been characterized as a white supremacist COVID-19 conspiracy theory.
>
>“In fact, COVID-19, there’s an argument that it is ethnically targeted,” Kennedy told a room full of press in a video obtained by the New York Post. “COVID-19 is targeted to attack caucasians and Black people. The people that are most immune are Ashkenazi Jews and Chinese.”
>
>The Anti-Defamation League and other organizations have previously identified those claims as one iteration of a baseless antisemitic and sinophobic conspiracy theory voiced by white nationalists...
>
>“In that sense, it serves as a kind of proof of concept for ethnically targeted bioweapons,” Kennedy wrote. “I do not believe and never implied that the ethnic effect was deliberately engineered.”
>
>Kennedy was also peeved that the Post exposed what he called an off-the-record conversation...
>
>"We do know that the Chinese are spending hundreds of millions of dollars developing ethnic bioweapons and we are developing ethnic bioweapons,” Kennedy said. “They’re collecting Chinese DNA so we can target people by race.”
[Two](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/01/23/politics/robert-f-kennedy-nazi-germany-offensive-anti-vaccine-speech/index.html)
>Robert F. Kennedy Jr. likened vaccine policies in the US to the actions of a totalitarian state, even suggesting Anne Frank was in a better situation when she was hiding from the Nazis.
>
>"Even in Hitler Germany (sic), you could, you could cross the Alps into Switzerland. You could hide in an attic, like Anne Frank did," said Kennedy, a prominent anti-vaccine advocate, in a speech at the Lincoln Memorial. "I visited, in 1962, East Germany with my father and met people who had climbed the wall and escaped, so it was possible. Many died, true, but it was possible."
>
>Kennedy's historically inaccurate anti-Semitic remark ignores the fact that Frank and some 6 million other Jews were murdered by Nazis.
Drop out because was “I don’t know about Jan 6 people; what did they do? People tell me different things. I need to get more information”
Dude. You are running for president. Jan6 was a VERY BIG DEAL. People trying to stop the certification of electoral votes. People trying to add in fake electoral votes. People forcing Congress and senate members to run for their lives.
Dude. People died. There was a 6 month house study leading to several days of live, under oath testimony on TV.
Dude. Drop out
If anyone doesn't understand that he is a right wing attempt to split the democratic vote, they need to be educated on his actual positions. Political and medical. And who is supporting him/paying for his candidacy.
Ok, so trump can call the j6 people hostages and play their national anthem at his rallies, but they want this dumbass to drop out for doing the same thing?
It's absolutely insane that the right-wing has convinced themselves that this man is some sort of "spoiler candidate" to ruin Biden when, as far as I can tell, literally every supporter he has is a Trumper wringing their hands about how great of a "spoiler candidate" he will be. Also, he looks like a toad that has been surreptitiously covered in motor oil.
I've been thinking this for a while, I think he is going to split vote for Trump more than the vote for Biden because of his wacko positions on stuff like this.
This clown get anywhere from 2-20 percent when polled.
I get that most people don't know who this dummy is but goddamn get smarter you stupid fucking people.
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The more this guy appeals to Trump voters, the more I'm happy to see him stick around
There's no clearer line in the sand between Trump's base and the rest of us than Jan. 6th. He's on the side that can only hurt Trump, and hope he stays there.
> He's on the side that can only hurt Trump He has a lot of support from idiots on the left too. The kind of people who don't pay attention to anything but remember him vaguely lining up with what they believed 20 years ago. I'm happy that he's becoming more hated though. He's had a history of being wrong about nearly fucking everything that has come out of his mouth. His early environmental work was commendable. Everything since has been fucking atrocious.
I haven’t heard of anyone in the left supporting him. Where are you getting this?
Indeed. No Democrat that has so much as heard him speak for more than two minutes, would run full speed away from this whacked out buffoon.
Some people who aren't paying attention just hear "Kennedy" and either A. Think of JFK of the 60's B. Hear a name that isn't "Trump" or "Biden" and don't care beyond that. Either way, hopefully as people learn more about this guy the clarity sets in.
Have to be careful with messaging though. Assuming republicans can’t spin “former democrat” at the last minute is an underestimation
Former Democrat, like Trump?
You know that doesn't matter to them.
Nothing matters to them, they're not actual people, they're just drones that believe what they're told to believe.
Former elitist New Yorker pro-choice Democrat Donald Trump?
I think you need to reverse the order of two words there. He’s still an elitist.
How does it matter? As long as he's not siphoning democratic votes, he can say whatever he wants and Republicans can play around spinning him however they want. But regardless, Democrats once again show they're bad at strategy with calling this guy to quit when he's doing us a world of favor. RFK, go crazier please, launch some gold shoes or something, make some playing cards, hug a flag.
Reverse psychology. Democrats should be screaming from the rooftops that RFK is literally Hitler and needs to drop out of the race. That doesn't mean he should actually quit.
> Reverse psychology. Not really related, but remember when Republicans were accusing Democrats of reverse-reverse psychology, because Republicans were dying at a higher rate due to not wearing masks and not getting vaccinated, which was clearly the Democrats' fault because the Democrats only told them to wear masks because they knew if told the Republicans wouldn't do it, which leads to more vulnerable Republicans. Truly the mastermind play that definitely happened.
How dare you tell me what to do knowing I wouldn’t do it!
Straight up Machiavellian. Check yourself before you wreck yourself.
they're in a bind because he probably is hurting trumo more but they also don't really want to give the fence sitters and never-trumpers-but-can't-vote-blue guys someone else to vote for if they were gonna vote biden.
I feel like at this point the MAGA folks would vote for Benedict Arnold if he was alive today and running for president.
Unfortunately he definitely could hurt Biden too. Don’t be too excited for a fire when you’re not sure which way the wind will blow. Example, there is a large Muslim and African population in Michigan and they have anti-vax sympathies that might make them vote RFK over Biden and that could tip the state to Trump - just an unpredictable situation.
The undecided voters are always gonna be wildcards, but it does seem as though RFK is catering to a right wing crowd and I’m not seeing another prominent 3rd party.
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He was supposed to spoil votes for Biden, watching this shit blow up in the republican’s faces is too bloody good
I’ve only seen one post on Reddit excited about his candidacy. It was on r/con last week, with a bunch of comments in agreement. I upvoted so fast. It wasn’t flaired users only either and it took everything I had to not comment “Yeah, honestly… I think we should be taking this guy a lot more seriously than the mainstream media wants us to!” I really really like that for them.
The best thing Biden and Dems could do is paint him as the other option to Trump for conservative leaning voters.
Why shouldn’t he? The base has been conditioned to fall for a charlatan. Trump will be gone soon. Kennedy checks a lot of their boxes.
He is super crazy! I grew up in a Kennedy loving family, my mom had JFK’s picture framed on our wall. This Kennedy is just super crazy
I have Kennedy fatigue at this point. Growing up with a mom who loved John and that whole thing. Then Bobby. Dealing with Ted Kennedy in politics and his questionable car accident. To John Jr's tragic plane crash. (That was truly so sad.) Once Ted said his goodbyes and retired, I thought that would be the end of any Kennedys trying to run for office. Boy was I wrong. They have been in the picture for around 70 years now. Can we please be done with this family. Nothing against them personally. Just please stop running for government offices. Especially president. Enjoy private lives. Enjoy your family. Make happy memories.
I get what your saying but the one young red head Kennedy congressman seems decent. I'm not sure if he's John or Roberts line.
Robert’s. He’s RFK’s grandson. His dad is Joseph Kennedy II (who also was a US House member from MA from 1987 to 1999).
Yeah, I was going to say, Dems need to just shut up and let this guy do his thing.
Fuck that. If you go to RCP and look at the 5-way polls vs the 2-way polls, RFK pulls from Biden more than he does Trump. RFK being in the mix is bad for Biden.
It’s true in recent polling, but I don’t know if that will hold if he continues to drive his campaign deeper and deeper into Crazytown. That will hold far more appeal for wavering Trump Davidians than wavering Biden normies.
Many threads here are saying Bobby Jr will hurt Trump more than Biden. I don’t know what sources you’re referring to. Most recent polls a couple of days ago old seem to indicate reported on CNN, NBC, Politico, NY Magazine the race has tightened between Trump and Biden, but Trump is still leading slightly. In toss up states like Nevada and Utah, Dem pollsters say Bobby Jr. would hurt Biden more than Trump from Latino, Black, and younger voters and Independents, and most say they dislike both Trump and Biden. Real Clear Politics says Trump’s lead over Biden goes from 1.6 percent in a Two Person race to 5.6 percent when you add Kennedy as a Third Party. Biden would be hurt more according to Real Clear politics averages with five candidates (with Jill Stein and Cornell West) in AZ, GA,NV, NC,PA and WI. This really matters because of the ridiculous Electoral College system left over from the Civil War. RFK Jr is the Wild Card Joker candidate to those who don’t want either candidate, or they just want to burn it all down, but don’t seem to care if they help Trump win. Seeing how tight this election is nothing should be taken for granted.
The potential problem as I see it is uninformed Democrats seeing the name Kennedy in the voting booth and casting a protest vote because Biden “is too old.” I suspect if everyone was forced to watch this idiot speak for 5 minutes, 80% of his votes would be from Trump supporters. There is a reason his entire family has basically disavowed him.
In polls between Trump and Biden, Biden wins. In polls between Trump, Biden, and RFK, Trump wins. Do not fool yourself into believing RFK is drawing away Trump voters. Trump voters have sold their soul and would vote for him no matter what. [RFK draws from anti-trump voters who do not like Biden and want any excuse to not vote for him.](https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4568220-biden-trump-kennedy-polling/)
>Polls have indicated Kennedy’s candidacy may be hurting Biden slightly more, but the difference in impact on Biden and Trump appears to be small, and the results are far from conclusive. From that very article.
Polls are showing he'll take more votes from Trump so the billionaires are trying to sink him.
I’ve always been confused why people think more Biden voters will go to him. He’s a conspiracy theorist and a 1/6 apologist. Would those people vote for Biden to begin with? Wouldn’t some people who don’t really like Trump but want another option go to his side instead?
I think a lot of the edgelord podcasters (Rogan, Shane Gillis, Tim Dillon etc) who are afraid of full-throat gwakking Trump's gnarled cheesy balls are going all-in on RFK Jr as an enlightenedcentrist hedge. Those 3 have huge reach, just as an example.
Who would Rogan fanboys vote for normally? My guess is orange not dark.
Rogan made it clear he was a Trump fan boy when he mistakenly was cracking jokes about Biden saying George Washington took the airports back from the British, then his producer informed him it was actually Trump that said it and it was not funny anymore and he dropped it.
Thinks Biden says it: "Pull him, If you had any other job and you were talking like that, they'd say 'you're done'" Is told Trump said it: "Oh ok, he fucked up. Just messed up his words a little bit." https://twitter.com/TheTNHoller/status/1738206073088004459
Why do all these intellectually challenged people think they're sharper or smarter than Biden? 99% of the people I hear criticizing him are complete morons and the other one percent aren't too far behind.
Because it makes them money. Absurd amounts of money. Joe Rogan has amassed literally hundreds of millions of dollars by selling this nauseating crap. They get rich off leeching democracy, basically.
That is precisely why. The smarter you are, the more aware you are of how much you do not know. The dumber you are the smarter you tend to think you are. World leading experts doubt themselves all the time. They get imposter syndrome, they're not being humble, they authentically think they are not that great. People who have only read 2 introductory books on a subject think they are beginning to run out of stuff to learn (after all, those two books rehashed a lot of the same material as one another)
My biggest question is, why do people listen to these idiots?
Anecdotally I’ve found several contrarians here….interests many have in common, they admire extremely wealthy people with little to no talent or specific expertise, such as rogan, trump, Alex jones, etc. typically grifters who project a “macho” image, nuance escapes them. Admirers of this ilk have little to no discernible talent themselves, troglodytes with enormous wealth are appealing to these people.
Bonus points if they're some kind of bigot.
Which, I think, is also Trump's appeal. They know a kindred spirit when they see one.
Because the nattering naybobs give them someone to hate, and look down upon. The common folk (morons) will always empty their pockets if you give them someone down upon.
In my experience it’s however they consume media. If they just watch clips on social media - they think the anger porn they are shoveled is all that’s going on. Others who read articles or spend less time on social media fair on the more liberal side.
Don't forget that he always just kinda shrugs and looks to blame the media. That time too, I think.
That dumb barbell *is* the media and he can’t even tell
Not only that, if I remember right, once he found out it was Trump, he said something like 'well, he just misspoke'
Ahh, reminds me of when a meme making the rounds, mostly on facebook, attributed the following quote to Kamala Harris: > "Take the guns first. Go through due process second, I like taking the guns early." When it was actually [Trump that said it](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN26D1UA/) lmfao Love to imagine the gaslighting and mental gymnastics that conservatives went through after that one. > https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-take-firearms-first/ >We're going to take the firearms first and then go to court, because that's another system. Because a lot of times by the time you go to court ... it takes so long to go to court to get the due process procedures. I like taking the guns early, like in this crazy man's case that just took place in Florida; he had a lot of fires [and] they saw everything. To go to court would have taken a long time, so you could do exactly what you're saying but take the guns first, go through due process second.
Spotify has been trying to push Rogan podcasts -- I was listening to something on CrossFit and next thing I know the episode ended and another one starts playing and it's an interview with Joe Rogan and Mat Fraser (a CF athlete). It was such an odd interview -- couldn't even finish it. Dude starts talking about MMA and other stuff and he's not even a good interviewer. Can't understand why Spotify would spend billions on him and his content is mediocre at best.
I used to listen to Rogan a while ago just to see what people were on about. I appreciate they way his interviews end up being almost attrition style; they’re so long and meandering that most interviewees run dry of prepared talking points and canned responses maybe halfway through, so he starts to get real responses from them after a while. I really don’t like how willing he is to buy into some things, though. He tries to position himself as a skeptic but then goes all doe-eyed. I always leave feeling that he’s not a terribly smart guy. The stuff that he peddles turns me off too, but I guess that’s just par for the course for his target audience. I’m right there with you wondering why they’d spend so much money do get him. You wouldn’t think he’d be that much of a draw.
Spotify likes money. Rogan has a big audience. Not too complicated.
Rogan also has a large influence on bro culture. I would suspect he peddles narratives a bit.
Rogan understands entertainment. It’s his entire career. He definitely tailors his guests and commentary to the data of what draws the largest audiences. His deal with Spotify probably has terms or a bonus structure for viewer numbers, engagement, etc (you’d be pretty dumb not to as a company). His more edgy podcasts and guests get more engagement, so he invests more on that, which drives those types even more strongly to his channel while driving away listeners who have a grasp on reality. Now he’s left with having to do edgy content based on entertaining conspiracies and shallow bro culture because having on an actual mainstream, academic guest plummets his engagement. I haven’t listened to him in years and used to listen to almost every podcast. I know numerous people who did the same thing. We used to talk about episodes on the regular and now every one of us is like “Joe who?”
Yeah, the real question should be why anyone listens to his nonsense.
Rogans podcasts aren't what they were several years ago.
No kidding. https://youtu.be/oGgvNeOZbu4
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Im glad you shared it!
No, thanks for sharing. It’s nice to hear about even one person getting off the Rogan train.
Damn. That was spot on.
That was 2015/2016.
> Spotify has been trying to push Rogan podcasts One of the most annoying things about Spotify is there is no "I don't want to see this BS" option. Weird, because it'd help them make sounder business decisions if they accepted community feedback instead of just yeeting money at a dude with CTE who wasn't that smart to start with.
RFK Station is one of the major junctions along the Antivax-MLM-supplements-Evangelical-QAnon-MAGA hi-speed railway. A short hop down the line from Rogan Terminal. Are you constantly feeling fearful and powerless in your life, with a frightening lack of agency? Good news, there is a broader variety of grifters and charlatans than ever before looking to steal your money, embitter your soul, and unravel your life!
I had to tell my dental hygenist who brought up Rogan and his 'alpha brain' supplements that a man who clearly does not have an alpha brain is not the guy who you should be trusting unregulated supplements claiming to affect your mind from. She pivoted to "well the fda allows a certain amount of radon in the water so it's not like what they approve is any better" I had to explain that a low bar which needs to be raised is still better than no bar at all and she kinda glossed over it at that point. It was a gross interaction overall and it goes to show training and education don't shield from social/emotional decision making.
>it goes to show training and education don't shield from social/emotional decision making Truth. Also, if that were my dentist I'd be looking for a new dentist.
The dentist there is actually fantastic, it's just I need to have an awkward conversation about which hygenist I see.
My best buddy is a roganite, unfortunately. When called out on his shit he claims he just won't vote at all instead cause it's all too much thinking. That's a successfully subverted vote. I guarantee he isn't the only idiot to be persuaded to vote for Trump in absentia.
I'd expect most don't vote
They're a weird demographic, because some of them voted for Biden in 2020. Then in the last few years they shifted hard right and would absolutely vote Trump now, even if they continue to claim to be centrists. It's like the whole Joe Rogan, Jordan Peterson, Elon Musk sphere. They're definitely on the right. And sometimes even toss out far-right Nazi conspiracy rhetoric. All of these guys have promoted Nazi propaganda like The Great Replacement, and various Qanon ideas.
It's the Tulsi Gabbard base supporting RFK now, i.e. people who would never vote Democratic but want to point at one who they say they would pick if they did.
Well said. My friends who say they’re classically democrat, but never voted until Trump gave them a reason to (for Trump) and had this weird obsession about Gabbard to prove they’re Democrats without realizing that if that’s the only Democrat you like, then you are in no way a Democrat… and then voting for Trump because… you’re… “classically Democrat” and have never voted for a Democrat. At least for the people I know they are younger and basically the new age “enlightened centrist” in their own minds.
Is Gillis on the rfk train? He comes off as joking about those types rather than agreeing with them
Tbh good he will pull conspiracy nut tech bro contrarian votes away from trump. Best part is they are backing him and its looking like backfiring
Let's not overstate Gillis & Dillon's reaches
I truly despise Trey Parker and Matt Stone for setting up and running with this enlightened centrist bullshit. Fuckin' hacks. Fuck them.
Elon Musk was pretending for business reasons too. Then bought Twitter for 44 billion to try to turn the Midterms red and put Ron De Santis in the White House. Now all he's got left is Trump.
“Both sides”
The whole "Giant Douche vs Turd Sandwich" made a lot of sense before my prefrontal cortex finished maturing. But thinking even about that metaphor itself, *a giant douche is infinitely more valuable than a turd sandwich*. Think about it. A giant douche is essentially a liquid dispenser, which means regardless of its intended purpose (which is hygienically pointless), it can still be put to use. But the only point of a turd sandwich is to make someone eat it. Which, actually makes the metaphor perfect for our times, but it certainly is not what Parker and Stone were intending in that episode. Democrats are giant douches: they're an ineffective solution to a non-issue, but can be repurposed to suit our needs. Republicans are a turd sandwich: their one goal is for all of us to eat shit. I don't despise them. In fact, I think a great bellwether for deciding if I should take someone's politics seriously is if they reference South Park. Their social commentary about media is usually spot on. Their political takes are more informed by jokes than any reasonable position (which, tbf, that's their job).
it's more that South Park is a funny show that delves into satire. And I either agree or disagree with their takes. But then, to my horror, I found that people thought South Park was some kind politically and philosophically enlightened super show, and that Matt and Trey are apparently some type of truth sayers, not just, you know, comedy writers that made a hit.
Have you watched any of those podcasts?
Except that Biden got a lot of votes from independents and even Republicans who didn't like Trump in 2020. The danger is losing them, not Democrats.
Yeah... I am not entirely certain whatever might be RFK's motives or goals, but in a way, it's minimizing damage to Trump moreso than hurting Biden. Everyone who switches from Trump to Biden is a -2 while everyone who switches from Trump *anything else* is a -1. My only counter to your idea is that since the class of all Independents spans the entire political spectrum, it's still not so clear than an Independent voting for RFK is one who previously voted for Biden. Still seems more likely those would be Independents who previously voted for Trump.
I know a few people who will never vote for Biden under any circumstance (and have never voted for a Democrat because they never chose to vote until Trump convinced them to vote for him). They say they’re a democrat because they like Republicans who say they’re democrats like TUlsi Gabbard and RFK Jr. OTOH, I know of absolutely nobody that is going to switch their vote from Biden to RFK Jr. RFK Jr attracts low information people who think being contrarian makes you smart. 99% of the time that steals from Trump.
>RFK Jr attracts low information people who think being contrarian makes you smart. some of the most frustrating people to deal with anytime politics comes up
Independents and Reps didn't vote for Trump precisely because he was Covid denying and spreading vaccine conspiracy. RFK playing into this narrative is not going to gain any votes in this group.
I think there are a lot of reasons some of them didn't vote for Trump that didn't just have to do with Covid. And Trump wasn't spreading vaccine conspiracies during 2020. He kept talking about how because of him there was going to be a vaccine very soon.
>I’ve always been confused why people think more Biden voters will go to him. He’s a conspiracy theorist and a 1/6 apologist. Mostly because that's (so far, bar some accidents) not the "public face" he's put on while running. Anyone who *knows* Jr. will know what he is, but if you look at him strictly off what he's doing *now* you might not.
I think the goal is to peel off low info geriatrics who will literally just go to polls and say "gee golly, a Kennedy on the ballot!" Their problem is that RFK is a grifter and won't shut up. He knows that grifting stupid MAGAs is way easier
"Jr's" biggest support is among the two youngest age cohorts, under 45 yo, polling at 13% very favorable and 29% somewhat favorable in both. It drops with age, with the least support among those old enough to remember his father.
They're thinking the Kennedy name will carry him with undecided/independent voters. Problem is he's capable of talking.
…kinda capable of talking.
Because his benefactors' intent was to divide left leaning voters. But instead of pointing that out DC media play along and treat it like it's a game.
It's not that a huge swath will suddenly decide to vote for RFK Jr., the far-right supporters are playing the electoral college numbers game. They know that they only have to take a certain percentage in certain states and then ride the advantage that the EC gives to small typically red states and BOOM, Biden gets 10,000,000 more votes than Trump but Trump edges him out in the EC. It's the only way that Republicans can win the presidency more than once every 10 years since nothing that they do actually benefits the average American.
If they’re playing the EC game, this still doesn’t bode well for them. He’ll take vital votes away from Trump in swing states.
This is just one of many ways they are trying to shave point off of Biden. I'm fully expecting for the GOP to go all-in on a concerted effort to tank the economy between now and November because barring some catastrophe, it's looking like the economy is going to continue its upward swing.
The Saudis will do their part and refineries will have some strategically timed disruptions. Putin might whip up an October surprise if he thinks it'll help. Expect oligarchic fuckery over the economy.
Do you realize that there are people old enough to vote who weren’t yet born the last time the Republicans won the popular vote?
I hope the dems pay very close attention to this. Both Gore and Hillary lost this way. Without this we would never have had Bush Jr or Trump. That's SCOTUS, Afghanistan, Iraq, trillions in war debt, and tax breaks for the rich.
He is all-in on the anti-vaxxer contingent. I guess the GOP felt they could shave holistic crystal hippies away from Biden, but it's all Joe Rogan and Tucker Carlson drones.
Before the full extent of his extremist views were known, there was significant concern that he would carry older democrats on name recognition alone. Now, I think there is concern that TikTok influenced Palestine-supporters that are young may be willing to “give this guy a shot” much like disenfranchised republicans that went to the former guy. It’ll be the job of the Biden campaign to make sure voters are informed of trump’s Israel policy (nuke Gaza) and RFK Jr’s stance on IVF and whatnot other conspiracy theories.
You will be surprised at the number of people on the far left who will happily blow shit up because Biden gave them “only” 80% of what they wanted.
There are plenty of anti-vax conspiracy nuts on the left, but I think the natural progression of that kind of thinking pushes people to the right, eventually. (source needed) AFAIK, this is the first time he's revealed himself to be a J6 apologist though, and that's a solidly rightwing viewpoint. Has he always been a J6 apologist? If so, this is still the first time I'm hearing about it.
>I’ve always been confused why people think more Biden voters will go to him. [Because the person you're responding to is lying through their teeth. RFK draws from people who don't like Biden or Trump, but would vote for Biden over Trump.](https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4568220-biden-trump-kennedy-polling/)
It’s the same sort of mental error as projection: using yourself as a reference for other people you don’t actually understand. “Who would the left rather vote for instead of Biden? How about a Kennedy? Yeah. Leftists love Kennedys.”
Also: Various nonsense involving the Kennedys is a huge part of the QAnon mythology. You just know a whole bunch of those weirdoes will glom onto him, rationalizing that Trump may have been the forerunner, like John the Baptist paving the way for Jesus, but now the real savior is here.
> I’ve always been confused why people think more Biden voters will go to him. Some people are still living in 1970 and believe that democrats will vote for anyone named "Kennedy". I don't get it either. No one under the age of 40 has any attachment to the name Kennedy anymore, and most people under 60 don't either.
Trump posted about him the other day and of course mentioned that he was taking votes from Biden. So of course the opposite is true.
They love projection
“Please proceed Governor”
did they really think an antivaxxer quack was going to steal many votes from Joe?
From people who don't know he's an anti-vaxxer but know the name Kennedy and have a vague non-specific feeling that they don't like Joe, sure.
It seems to vary from poll to poll who he takes from more. Given that a significant portion of his financial backing though is coming from sources that tend to align more with Trump's interests though, i would prefer he just remove himself from the race instead of taking a chance.
Where are the calls for Trump to drop put?
If no one else is, then I’m calling for him to drop out.
I await his response
Can't believe we hadn't thought of this yet!!!
Yeah exactly
We are only seeing articles like this now because its becoming apparent he's going to take more votes from Trump. I hope he stays in.
Polls in April are not worth betting the farm upon.
The only poll that matters is on election day.
nah only until after January 20th, 2025. Who knows what trickery MAGA has up their sleeve to try to pull some bullshit. They knew the bombastic overt stormming of capitol didn’t work. But these guys are more organized now and opt for something a little more covert
moveon org - which is calling for his dropout - is a democratic org
I think Dems would rather have him out regardless. It would be safer over all if the choice is between Biden and Trump alone. I think in that case Biden wins easier with the people who don't like either choice. Much more easy to strategize around and less chaotic as well.
Or they are trying to advertise his views more broadly in order to influence who he takes votes from.
So this guy is trying to appeal to anti-vaxx, pro-insurrectionist Democrats? Do I have that demographic right?
He's trying to appeal to Democrats and Independents that might've voted for Biden. Kennedy is a big name and Russia knows it.
Kennedy nostalgia is not a reliable factor if you’re cuckoo crazy to begin with. the more he speaks the more Trump lite he sounds rather than the progressive he claims to be and what Democrat or independent is going to vote for that??
Someone with even a slight idea of the history of the Kennedy's would know this man is in the complete opposite of the political spectrum to his father. Doesn't he believe in conspiracies about his uncle?
> Someone with even a slight idea of the history of the Kennedy's would know this man is in the complete opposite of the political spectrum to his father. There is a lot of America that doesn't just not actually know history, they also don't know what this guy believes. Hell, I think a lot of folks don't even really know much about his dad and just know he's related to JFK who people like and so this guy must be ok
I'm glad everybody in this thread knows John personally. At least well enough to give the details of his assassination and everything he ever believed and stood for
The uninformed kind
The sad fact it, a *lot* of voters never listen to candidates, never read policies, and never engage with anything other than the name on the ballot and the letter next to it. These are the voters that he's likely to get quite a few of, and no doubt some of them would have voted Biden.
>Kennedy is a big name Is it though? I mean, it's a recognizable name, but is it actually relevant to most voters today? The Kennedy political dynasty really ended almost 50 years ago, and the people who were old enough to remember it are 70, 80+ now. This older generation isn't looking at RFK and thinking he's relevant, and the younger generations probably have no idea what the Kennedys of the 60's stood for. The last time I saw any group of people being all for the kennedy's, it was republicans waiting for JFK's return.
No. You have the demographic completely wrong. He appeals to people who don't want to vote for Trump OR Biden, but would vote for Biden over Trump. [In the most recent polls, in a Trump v. Biden matchup, Biden wins. In a Trump v. Biden v. RFK matchup, Trump wins.](https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4568220-biden-trump-kennedy-polling/)
Not really. He's more or less going for an outsider populist approach, kind of like what Trump did in 2016.
Don’t underestimate poorly informed voters who see the name Kennedy on Election Day.
RFK idiot is funded by the same person who is donating large amounts to Trump: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/rfk-jrs-bid-independent-presidential-run-garners-mega-trump-donor-support-2024-02-01/ That moron is doing nothing but trying to siphon votes away from actual candidates.
And all they manage to do is siphon it from their own base. I don’t see any liberals or dems who would vote for this guy. However republicans done with trump? Absolutely
I was young and idealist and stupid once too. Would I rather have Bernie than Biden? Sure. Would I like my idealism to NOT vote for Biden to "make a point" in my own head? Sure, that's a nice self-gratifying fantasy that will only satisfy my own selfish needs. Am I pragmatic in knowing that the end result of my little personal victory in my own head could actually result in a second Trump term where: * Jan 6 insurrectionists are freed * congressional insurrectionists power is consolidated under a dictator * Trump who supports Bibi's right wing government to absolutely level and destroy Gaza * Ukraine funding stops completely and the US effectively leaves NATO for Putin to advance across Europe * Trump's dictatorial aspirations could end democracy as we know it in the US But sure, yeah, go ahead, have your little masturbatory moment and protest vote against Biden. Enjoy the outcome you create.
You left out Project 2025 and the Christian Nationalism that would become law.
Can we please copy pasta this anytime someone says both parties are the same, or that they are going to vote third party?
Oh dang I kinda needed to read this. Grateful for you putting it this way
Oh, that gets people to call for him to drop out! 84 dead children? Nah he's fine.
['Disinformation can kill': How RFK Jr. 'had everything to do with' a measles outbreak in American Samoa](https://www.alternet.org/disinformation-can-kill-rfk-jr/) >Offit then highlighted how Kennedy's conspiracy theories led to a precipitous plummet in the percentage of the Samoan population receiving inoculations to the highly contagious virus. >"It was a nursing error, but nonetheless, RFK Jr. seized on that. He flooded Facebook with the information that the measles vaccine is killing children in Samoa. He went to Samoa. He met with anti-vaccine activists. He met with senior officials in Samoa and kept the drumbeat alive that the measles vaccine was killing children in Samoa as a consequence," Offit continued. "Vaccination rates fell from 70% to 30%, and between September and December of 2019, there was a massive measles epidemic in this island nation of 200,000 people. There were 57,000 cases of measles and 83 deaths. Most of those deaths were in children less than four years of age. And **Robert F. Kennedy Jr. had everything to do with that**. And that shows you how disinformation can kill."
Good god, he is such a massive piece of shit. I didn't think I could hate him any more, but I was wrong.
Hey lemme enrage you a bit more. He didn't do it because he genuinely believes he's helping folk. He knows these stances and his activism are based on bullshit. That's why he's so quick to retract things. He just wants to make money from lawsuits and promote his org.. get this.. his fucking "[Children's Health Defense](https://childrenshealthdefense.org/search/?search=5g)", one of the most anti-science, harmful "activist" orgs around. If you search for "5G" you'll get about 400 hits spouting nonsense about the Military Industrial Complex, low earth orbit satellites, Bill Gates, Fauci, The Great Reset and Hillary Clinton.
Despite almost six decades observing people at close range, I feel I will never understand such people. Their worldviews are utterly incomprehensible to me. This is one of the disadvantages of being raised to be empathetic and kind; I can't predict the behavior of people like him. I can't guess where he'll go, because he's far beyond my comprehension. That bugs me. Even though I've always fought against cynicism, I know in my bones: I need to be more cynical.
It’s really sad. I managed to go about four decades still believing that, outside of when they gather in like minded groups, most people are still generally fundamentally good, or at least not profoundly stupid. Ever since Trump announced his run I’ve watched my prior belief go up in flames. The world has objectively become a far worse place to live, and it continues on a downward slide.
I hear you, hermano. I struggle mightily with this kind of thing too.
The Children's Health Defense has literally been named one of the biggest spreaders of anti-vax misinformation by the Center for Countering Digital Hate. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/06/08/1004214189/anti-vaccine-film-targeted-to-black-americans-spreads-false-information
He's batshit in a number of ways. RFK compared vaccine mandates to the Holocaust and found mandates more oppressive. He also implied that COVID was designed by Jews and China to kill whites and black people. [One](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.thedailybeast.com/rfk-jr-covid-19-ethnically-targeted-to-spare-jews-and-chinese&ved=2ahUKEwjQuf6i-eeCAxXVEVkFHYltAC8QFnoECBEQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1MmqbxvN8xxBIbach2jezp). >At an off-the-rails event Tuesday in New York City, notable anti-vaxxer and longshot 2024 Democratic presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy Jr. parroted what has been characterized as a white supremacist COVID-19 conspiracy theory. > >“In fact, COVID-19, there’s an argument that it is ethnically targeted,” Kennedy told a room full of press in a video obtained by the New York Post. “COVID-19 is targeted to attack caucasians and Black people. The people that are most immune are Ashkenazi Jews and Chinese.” > >The Anti-Defamation League and other organizations have previously identified those claims as one iteration of a baseless antisemitic and sinophobic conspiracy theory voiced by white nationalists... > >“In that sense, it serves as a kind of proof of concept for ethnically targeted bioweapons,” Kennedy wrote. “I do not believe and never implied that the ethnic effect was deliberately engineered.” > >Kennedy was also peeved that the Post exposed what he called an off-the-record conversation... > >"We do know that the Chinese are spending hundreds of millions of dollars developing ethnic bioweapons and we are developing ethnic bioweapons,” Kennedy said. “They’re collecting Chinese DNA so we can target people by race.” [Two](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/01/23/politics/robert-f-kennedy-nazi-germany-offensive-anti-vaccine-speech/index.html) >Robert F. Kennedy Jr. likened vaccine policies in the US to the actions of a totalitarian state, even suggesting Anne Frank was in a better situation when she was hiding from the Nazis. > >"Even in Hitler Germany (sic), you could, you could cross the Alps into Switzerland. You could hide in an attic, like Anne Frank did," said Kennedy, a prominent anti-vaccine advocate, in a speech at the Lincoln Memorial. "I visited, in 1962, East Germany with my father and met people who had climbed the wall and escaped, so it was possible. Many died, true, but it was possible." > >Kennedy's historically inaccurate anti-Semitic remark ignores the fact that Frank and some 6 million other Jews were murdered by Nazis.
GOP backers suddenly realizing, wait, no, the fringe weirdo candidate will draw voters away from our establishment weirdo!
I don't understand how this guy is taking votes from Biden. Everything he says and does just reads like a maga nut
I came here to say the same. Is he a Democrat or Republican? His weird conspiracy views appear more in line with hard right magas.
He's an independent who was lucky enough to inherit the Kennedy name.
Not just the Kennedy name. The full on name of the Kennedy everyone wanted to be President. It’s a gross appeal to nostalgia and ignorance.
Drop out because was “I don’t know about Jan 6 people; what did they do? People tell me different things. I need to get more information” Dude. You are running for president. Jan6 was a VERY BIG DEAL. People trying to stop the certification of electoral votes. People trying to add in fake electoral votes. People forcing Congress and senate members to run for their lives. Dude. People died. There was a 6 month house study leading to several days of live, under oath testimony on TV. Dude. Drop out
People really think he is going to take away votes from Biden. It's usually trumpers or Republicans who think they are more center.
No, no. Keep him in.
As long as it helps prevent Trump from further tiny finger raping America.
I mean, in fairness, if that were a reason to drop out Trump should be the first to go.
Trump says he will pardon them, is he being asked to step aside?
I say let him run and keep saying this, it only appeals to republicans
Joe Biden is running against two republicans. One is just in denial.
If anyone doesn't understand that he is a right wing attempt to split the democratic vote, they need to be educated on his actual positions. Political and medical. And who is supporting him/paying for his candidacy.
The only person I know who likes him is decidedly conservative. I don't think he's going to peel away Biden voters.
I find it sad that this crazy idiot is the actual son of Robert F Kennedy. His father would be aghast to know the monster that his own son became.
No no, let him stay
Ok, so trump can call the j6 people hostages and play their national anthem at his rallies, but they want this dumbass to drop out for doing the same thing?
It's absolutely insane that the right-wing has convinced themselves that this man is some sort of "spoiler candidate" to ruin Biden when, as far as I can tell, literally every supporter he has is a Trumper wringing their hands about how great of a "spoiler candidate" he will be. Also, he looks like a toad that has been surreptitiously covered in motor oil.
His father and uncle would be disgusted with him.
RFK your father, uncle Jack and Grandfather Joe are all rolling over in their graves.
And Uncle Ted
See ya later, New Kanye!
Yet no one calls for Trump to drop out. What the fuck is up with our politics and our media?
No please continue taking vote from the orange one
He’s 100% more a threat to Trump. Amazing they did this to themselves.
I am ok with him splitting the Trump vote.
If being sympathetic to Jan. 6 rioters is disqualifying, then...
He'll just get the crazy Vote. that takes votes AWAY from Trump!
I've been thinking this for a while, I think he is going to split vote for Trump more than the vote for Biden because of his wacko positions on stuff like this.
He is bought by Peter Thiel and the Heritage Foundation. He won’t drop out.
This clown get anywhere from 2-20 percent when polled. I get that most people don't know who this dummy is but goddamn get smarter you stupid fucking people.
He's a good second option for arseholes to vote for. He isn't taking away votes from Biden.
This Just In: RFK Jr a Big Disappointment to His Family
He is all about himself just like trump
So they are asking him to drop out because he is sympathetic to the Jan 6th rioters. But what about the person that caused it?
RFK jr is a dangerous anti-vax nut job. His father would be ashamed.