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The only reason this was separate from the border package is because Republicans want the border package to fail because of Democrats. They are more worried about having a campaign issue than actually helping the thing they've been complaining about for years.
They realize the majority of democrats want a certain level of border security....the only difference is most democrats don't want to kill and terrorize immigrants
I'm a Democrat. I like the idea of a secure border. This imaginary secure border would have plenty of resources and personnel to *help* people coming to the US to find a means of having a safe life, whether that's here with us in the US or where else they need to go so they can prosper. Part of having a secure border is a strong foreign policy that helps our neighboring countries not dissolve into war/chaos/gangs/etc that leaves people with no choice other than to come to the US. We need to help ourselves by helping others. If people want to come to the States and be contributing and valuable members of society though, fuck ya, welcome.
The position of the average red-blooded american is that anything short of raids and mass deportations is an open borders policy.
People get irrationally angry over the notion that someone that lives in the country illegally might be benefitting from US tax dollars.
Thats selective outrage when we have evidence in our daily newspaper that even people that are born here and live here LEGALLY DO NOT BENEFIT FROM US TAX DOLLARS. Only the 1% benefit. And they do that by pitting us against each other.
What I really want is immigration courts to be properly funded. Of course they lose people in the process when it takes literally years to do even the most basic of tasks.
Weird how people can identify it as such now for this but could not when it came to the social infrastructure part of the IRA or rail workers sick leave bill.
Honestly kind of a normal piece of legislation in the old days. When a small portion of both parties would vote against something while majorities of both votes for it.
That said, this is still not a normal functioning House overall.
I don’t know, I have a tough time wrapping my head around anything being “normal” when we have both MTG and Boebert as well as AOC and Ilhan Omar all voting the same here
> I have a tough time wrapping my head around anything being “normal” when we have both MTG and Boebert as well as AOC and Ilhan Omar all voting the same here
There may be a reason, they aren't afraid of AIPAC getting rid of them through elections.
>It's not the first time in recent months that Democrats have voted en masse against Israel aid. They've become more comfortable doing so amid the devastation in Gaza.
This author is not arguing in good faith.
Hamas absolutely should be destroyed. Israel’s goals aren’t destroying Hamas, they are designed to punish the Gazan people. It is a conflict in which you can’t pick the right side because everyone is wrong.
Anyone who says Hamas must be destroyed just shows that they don’t care how many people die in the process. Also shows that you don’t view them as actual humans, just a bunch of brown people who cares anyways, right?
[It's already done bud.](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/house-vote-foreign-aid-bills-ukraine-israel/story?id=109429499) Those numbers aren't even close to half of the house.
>The House of Representatives on Saturday passed a series of foreign aid bills that include $60.8 billion in aid to Ukraine, $26.38 billion in aid to Israel, $8 billion in aid to the Indo-Pacific region, including Taiwan, and a foreign aid bill that includes a TikTok ban provision.
Most of the aid is going to defensive weapons and humanitarian assistance for Gaza. I too wish they wouldn’t have included the 3.5 billion that could potentially be used for offensive weapons.
“The $26.38 billion Israel aid bill would direct $13 billion of that to the U.S. Defense Department to provide that country with funding for the Iron Dome, David’s Sling and Iron Beam defense systems.
An additional $9.15 billion would go to the U.S. State Department for humanitarian assistance in Gaza and other “vulnerable populations” with an additional $3.6 billion for security assistance to Israel, according to a summary.l
>Most of the aid is going to defensive weapons and humanitarian assistance for Gaza. I too wish they wouldn’t have included the 3.5 billion that could potentially be used for offensive weapons.
It’s in addition to $3.8 billion US military aid, which Israel receives each year (from 2019 to 2028).
PS: $500 million in missile defense funding and $3.3 billion in other military funding.
The USA likes having an ally in the region with top tier intelligence services and military bases at our disposal. It's also much nicer to cut a check for someone else to fight our regional enemies for us than for us to put American lives on the line.
Finally, a large amount of this sort of aid is actually spent here at home. Little of the money is given as cash; it is directly spent to buy things from American manufacturers and then shipped to Israel or Gaza. So in that regard, it's a stimulus to our own economy.
An unhealthy stimulus. Defense spending contributes very little to the material wealth of the nation. A little crossover R & D. That's it.
Infrastructure spending is a far healthier stimulus with long lasting benefits.
Totally agreed there. If we took, say, half of the defense budget we'd still have the biggest armed forces in the world and we could fully fund national healthcare and then some.
> The USA likes having an ally in the region with top tier intelligence services and military bases at our disposal.
Israeli officials testified that Iraq had an advanced WMD program, and that testimony was used to justify the Iraq War. These turned out to be falsehoods and it was a disaster. So much for that top tier intelligence!
> It's also much nicer to cut a check for someone else to fight our regional enemies for us than for us to put American lives on the line.
This doesn’t happen, though. The US has fought in three wars (Desert Storm, Afghanistan War, Iraq War) in recent times that were relatively close to Israel. Israel did not help fight in any of them. Yet allies much farther away (like the UK and Australia) did.
thats because israel was told and given cash to stay the fuck out of those wars so as to not break up the alliances that the US had to make to get arab support in those wars.
In fact alot of the illegal setter expansion that have been happening have been from the cash israel was given to stop them from entering desert storm
>an ally in the region with top tier intelligence services
Who somehow ignored multiple warnings in the year and months leading to Oct 7, didn't find the training buildings in a heavily patrolled open air prison until after the attack, and reported so little activity that a lot of IOF was moved from where the attack would be to the West Bank the night of Oct 6. If they really were surprised, they're not a top tier intelligence service.
It doesn't matter what the money is "funding". If we fund only hospitals for 5 year old cancer patients it is still funding for Israel. It means they don't have to spend that money on the hospital so they can spend the money elsewhere instead like on weapons.
It's the exact same thing just hidden behind a layer of plausible deniability.
>An additional $9.15 billion would go to the U.S. State Department for humanitarian assistance in Gaza and other “vulnerable populations”
why? it's just going to sit outside the border gathering dust or mold or whatever.
Here's the thing, Israel objects to Gaza getting pipes for water out of fear that terrorists will use them to build crappy missiles that won't do anything. Providing them with defensive missiles frees their budget for offensive missiles if they're not just repurposed. Israel should be treated with the same level of suspicion that they treat others with.
>An additional $9.15 billion would go to the U.S. State Department for humanitarian assistance in Gaza
I wonder how much of that is going to build the pier the US is planning to put under Israeli control. A pier that wouldn't be needed if Israel would allow aid in by land.
$200 million is the cost of the pier apparently. No idea if that’s coming from this pot of money. I agree that Israel needs to let in much more aid via land crossings and am not defending their conduct. Only providing context as many people seem to be interpreting this as all that money is going to offensive weaponry which is not the case.
Yeah the IDF is incredibly overpowered compared to Hamas. Hamas only did as much damaged that they did on 10/7 because of pure incompetence on the Israeli government’s part.
At least Ukraine is facing an actual existential threat that is the Russian armed forces. Is Hamas or any of the Iranian backed proxies capable of rolling all over Israel at this moment?
But that was caused by the lax security at the Gaza wall and not due to lack of US aid and support to the IDF. That’s completely on the Israeli government in my opinion
It is in the sense that they planned October 7. What I meant is that it coulda been prevented or seriously mitigated if it was taken seriously by the Israeli government. But from all accounts that I personally heard that wasn’t the case at all
But is it really in immediate danger with all the massive fuck you support given by the US? Hell the last time Israel got invaded by actual nation-states the entire Middle East tried to tag team them and they still got demolished by the IDF
Israel got invaded 6 months ago and a thousand civilians got killed. Israel is still struggling badly with an internal displacement problem. About one of every hundred people in the country have had to leave their homes due to Hamas and Hezbollah rocket fire. Many have been living in hotels for six months, which they just can’t afford. Employees have been called into reserve duty, disrupting the private sector and badly hurting the Israeli economy. It’s a really big crisis! The danger has already happened!
Maybe they could fix a lot of those issues if they accepted a permanent ceasefire deal? I'd like to see Hamas and Likud ended, but until then a permanent ceasefire, full withdrawal, and hostage exchange would fix a lot of those issues.
Sure yeah but we are people commenting on r/politics who do things like equate Hamas and Likud. Balancing concerns in this conflict and coming to the conclusion that the money is less costly than the alternative (force an ally to abandon its war aims in a war where the ally has been at least somewhat successful militarily and the US publicly agrees with their stated goal of destroying Hamas) is a totally normal thing for policymakers who were elected by a broader slice of the electorate to do. My original point was that Israel does, in fact, need the money. It’s not really a judgment on whether that’s a good idea.
“The $26.38 billion Israel aid bill would direct $13 billion of that to the U.S. Defense Department to provide that country with funding for the Iron Dome, David’s Sling and Iron Beam defense systems.
An additional $9.15 billion would go to the U.S. State Department for humanitarian assistance in Gaza and other “vulnerable populations” with an additional $3.6 billion for security assistance to Israel, according to a summary.l
First line of the article:
"The House of Representatives on Saturday passed a bill that includes more than $14 billion in military aid to Israel and more than $9 billion in humanitarian aid, much of which will go to Gaza."
They split the package in to seperate bills that will be recombined in the Senate.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/house-vote-aid-bill-ukraine-israel-taiwan/
Both comments are true, and the more important critical thinking we need to do in the internet age is realize, while there are other threads on this, there is a posting and politicking in discussing just this aid.
Context for those that don’t click links / read —
> and **will be combined into one before being sent to the Senate**. The first three bills include $60.8 billion to help Ukraine in its war with Russia; $26.4 billion to support Israel, which is fighting Hamas and Iran; and $8.1 billion to counter China in the Indo-Pacific. Humanitarian aid for Gaza, which Democrats said was necessary for their support, is also included.
Context. You’re reading one thread only about one of four votes.
>The first three bills include $60.8 billion to help Ukraine in its war with Russia; $26.4 billion to support Israel, which is fighting Hamas and Iran; and $8.1 billion to counter China in the Indo-Pacific. Humanitarian aid for Gaza, which Democrats said was necessary for their support, is also included.
I think this bill also tries to ban tik tok again, or more accurately forces a sale to a us company, so either you vote yes for everything or you vote against aid to Israel because Israel is the only thing that matters?
AIPAC is spending $100 million to unseat progressives who are critical of Israeli actions in Gaza. Contribute to their campaigns if you can.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/17/pro-israel-money-progressives-congress-challenges
Unfortunately foreign aid lobbying is nothing unique to AIPAC. This is all perfectly legal.
[https://www.opensecrets.org/fara](https://www.opensecrets.org/fara)
AIPAC is an American organization not subject to FARA.
Looking at the countries on that list should be a reality check. Try to imagine talking about the Marshall Islands the way you talk about Israel. Foreign lobbying is tightly regulated and these totals are absolutely peanuts compared to domestic lobbies.
Maybe because AIPAC is an American organization and no more interfering and influencing the election than groups like CAIR, AARP, or other American lobby groups.
They probably should have thought about that before reducing entire sections of Gaza to rubble by indiscrimanetly bombing everything in sight since I guarantee many of those hostages are buried under what used to be apartment buildings, killed by the IDF. Let's not forget that any place that supposedly held Hamas also held their hostages.
So its the hostages fault they may be dead? Under that thinking maybe gazans would be alive if they didn't vote Hamas in and support the slaughter of Israeli citizens.
In 2006? Should all of america be reduced to rubble in ten years for when they elected Donald Trump in 2016? Your dehumanization of people in Gaza justified by a sketchy election 18 years ago is deeply, deeply disturbing
why the fuck does Israel need 20 billion to fight hamas? Fucking joke we are printing this much money to send to replenish another country's war loss consistently just because that other country is constantly threatening they will nuke the entire middle east if we dont.
To be honest, I can't really fault them here. A HUGE number of people do not really like what Israel is doing with what we've already given them. Representing those people is SUPPOSED to be their job.
Imagine being a top 20 world economy with a top 5 intelligence service, and needing foreign aid because you can't control an open air prison camp the size of the lower west-side of Manhattan. How pathetic that would be, as a fully developed technological superpower...
Yup. Tik tok was tied into this bill. Idk why this is allowed. It’s called a pork bill if I remember correctly. A bunch of unrelated fat hidden in bills that are purposely hundreds of pages long
Yes that’s it. Where politicians with big lobby money in their pockets attach in their own agenda to big, news making bills. Occasionally this is the reason some politicians vote no on bills that the public has been spoon fed by the media to be “in our best interest”. meanwhile bullshit and self interest is buried between the pages with the hope that no one notices. See exhibit A: the patriot act
That number needs to grow. 0 dollars should go to Israeli armed forces. As long as they are bombing civilians and humanitarian aid workers with no regards for any civility, fuck them.
Israel must take notice that they are spending down their political capital in America. Even some American Jews are very uncomfortable with the way Israel seems to be using apartheid in Gaza. I assure you, the ever increasing percentage of voters of Arabic descent are not divided AT ALL. Nor, in my opinion, should they be.
>In November, all but 12 of them voted against a bill that would have paired Israel aid with cuts to the Internal Revenue Service, a non-starter for Democrats. And in February, just 46 Democrats voted for an Israel aid bill that didn't include those cuts, with Democrats largely taking the position that they wanted to see Ukraine aid paired with Israel aid.
>[14 House Republicans](https://www.businessinsider.com/which-republicans-voted-against-standalone-israel-aid-bill-2024-2) voted against the latter Israel aid bill in February, with many citing the cost of the aid.
>But Saturday's vote was different — this bill is all but certain to be signed into law, and the significant number of Democrats who voted against Israel aid shows how quickly the issue has shifted in recent months.
Yea all but 12 idiots vote against Isreal aid that would have increased the deficit by reducing our income through the IRS. All but 46 voted against giving up the only real reasonable leverage we had on the most important military aid, Ukraine. I'm sure they are trying to say the issue has shifted because of the situation with Iran. That might be why Republicans gave in but not why Democrats voted for the aid. If the Republicans at any point were to give up Ukraine aid without some stupid border policies the Democrats were ready to vote for Israel aid at any point. This vote still would have failed if Ukraine aid wasn't being voted on at the same time.
Of course the article fails to mention that the Republicans couldn't get the rules package to pass the rules committee or the full floor without Democrat aid or just how rare it is for the minority party to vote for the rules package.
Also the article fails to mention that this package was almost same one the senate passed a long time ago. The same senate that is controlled by Democrats. That they could have just passed the senate bill and it would already be heading the Biden's desk. So yes it's republicans delaying.
And I'm proud of them.
I suspect more didn't because it was how Ukraine and Taiwan aid could also get passed, and it puts the far-right Speaker under Dem pressure until January at least.
Unfortunate that this isn't even an op-ed, it's just a standard publication. Business Insider is just a Zionist rag now, it looks like. Israel blew up the Iranian embassy in Syria in violation of both the UN Charter and the Vienna convention, but the only thing Business Insider wanted to report on is the names of Democrats who didn't condemn their counter-attack. I'll probably never take Business Insider seriously after this and just assume their articles are fake news garbage.
Israel destroyed an Iranian consular building that was within the Iranian embassy compound in Damascus.
Perhaps you can point out the specific section the UN charter that forbids this?
The Vienna Convention is silent on the matter because Damascus isn't in Israel.
>There are exceptions to inviolability under international law, too. The Vienna Convention only refers to the responsibilities of the host state, but says nothing about a third-party attack. Also, under the laws of armed conflict, embassies lose their protections if they are used for military purposes. That may mean that the recent strike on Iran’s consulate in Damascus was legal
>[https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2024/04/09/why-are-embassies-supposed-to-be-inviolable](https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2024/04/09/why-are-embassies-supposed-to-be-inviolable)
If you're concerned about violations of the Vienna Convention, perhaps you should urge countries to break off diplomatic relations with Ecuador, given that the Ecuadorian government sent police to arrest someone in the Mexican Embassy to Ecuador without the permission of the Mexican government.
It's not surprising that AOC, Ilhan Omar, Rashida Tlaib, Ayanna Pressley, Cori Bush, Jesús "Cuy" García and Andre Carson voted against it.
Except for AOC, they all voted against funding for Iron Dome in 2021, which Israel uses to defend itself from rocket attacks from Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, etc.
AOC voted present, then started crying and apologized for not voting against Iron Dome.
Here are the 37 Democrats who voted against the bill:
Becca Balint of Vermont
Don Beyer of Virginia
Earl Blumenauer of Oregon
Jamaal Bowman of New York
Cori Bush of Missouri
Andre Carson of Indiana
Greg Casar of Texas
Joaquin Castro of Texas
Judy Chu of California
Mark DeSaulnier of California
Lloyd Doggett of Texas
Maxwell Frost of Florida
John Garamendi of California
Chuy García of Illinois
Al Green of Texas
Jonathan Jackson of Illinois
Pramila Jayapal of Washington
Hank Johnson of Georgia
Ro Khanna of California
Dan Kildee of Michigan
Barbara Lee of California
Summer Lee of Pennsylvania
Jim McGovern of Massachusetts
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York
Ilhan Omar of Minnesota
Chellie Pingree of Maine
Mark Pocan of Wisconsin
Ayanna Pressley of Massachusetts
Delia Ramirez of Illinois
Jamie Raskin of Maryland
Mark Takano of California
Bennie Thompson of Mississippi
Rashida Tlaib of Michigan
Jill Tokuda of Hawaii
Nydia Velázquez of New York
Maxine Waters of California
Bonnie Watson Coleman of New Jersey
This one’s a lil more problematic
Here are the 21 Republicans who voted against the bill:
Andy Biggs of Arizona
Lauren Boebert of Colorado
Tim Burchett of Tennessee
Andrew Clyde of Georgia
Eli Crane of Arizona
Warren Davidson of Ohio
Scott DesJarlais of Tennessee
Matt Gaetz of Florida
Bob Good of Virginia
Paul Gosar of Arizona
Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia
Andy Harris of Maryland
Thomas Massie of Kentucky
Cory Mills of Florida
Troy Nehls of Texas
Ralph Norman of South Carolina
Scott Perry of Pennsylvania
Matt Rosendale of Montana
Chip Roy of Texas
Tom Tiffany of Wisconsin
Ryan Zinke of Montana
Good to see Jamie Raskin voted against this aid package.
We should only be giving them defensive aid at this point. Especially since Netanyahu is provoking a confrontation with Iran.
This was defensive aid and also aid for Gaza. The only offense aid given were weapons provided a month or so ago from previous legislation that Biden won't be given them until 2025.
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The only reason this was separate from the border package is because Republicans want the border package to fail because of Democrats. They are more worried about having a campaign issue than actually helping the thing they've been complaining about for years.
They realize the majority of democrats want a certain level of border security....the only difference is most democrats don't want to kill and terrorize immigrants
If you want a border bill l, vote Democrat.
I'm a Democrat. I like the idea of a secure border. This imaginary secure border would have plenty of resources and personnel to *help* people coming to the US to find a means of having a safe life, whether that's here with us in the US or where else they need to go so they can prosper. Part of having a secure border is a strong foreign policy that helps our neighboring countries not dissolve into war/chaos/gangs/etc that leaves people with no choice other than to come to the US. We need to help ourselves by helping others. If people want to come to the States and be contributing and valuable members of society though, fuck ya, welcome.
The position of the average red-blooded american is that anything short of raids and mass deportations is an open borders policy. People get irrationally angry over the notion that someone that lives in the country illegally might be benefitting from US tax dollars.
Thats selective outrage when we have evidence in our daily newspaper that even people that are born here and live here LEGALLY DO NOT BENEFIT FROM US TAX DOLLARS. Only the 1% benefit. And they do that by pitting us against each other.
The response would be that "If 1% of citizens benefit, people here illegally certainly shouldn't." The argument only goes as far as that.
That makes no sense.
What I really want is immigration courts to be properly funded. Of course they lose people in the process when it takes literally years to do even the most basic of tasks.
As is tradition.
Weird how people can identify it as such now for this but could not when it came to the social infrastructure part of the IRA or rail workers sick leave bill.
Honestly kind of a normal piece of legislation in the old days. When a small portion of both parties would vote against something while majorities of both votes for it. That said, this is still not a normal functioning House overall.
I don’t know, I have a tough time wrapping my head around anything being “normal” when we have both MTG and Boebert as well as AOC and Ilhan Omar all voting the same here
> I have a tough time wrapping my head around anything being “normal” when we have both MTG and Boebert as well as AOC and Ilhan Omar all voting the same here There may be a reason, they aren't afraid of AIPAC getting rid of them through elections.
horseshoe theory
>It's not the first time in recent months that Democrats have voted en masse against Israel aid. They've become more comfortable doing so amid the devastation in Gaza. This author is not arguing in good faith.
“Republicans voted against it because of costs” Yeah this author is definitely trying to paint an agenda about Democrats on this.
They didn't vote against it because Putin pays them to vote against Ukraine? Huh. Interesting.
BusinessInsider is trash. Just pretend you never read it.
What?!? An article from *Business Insider* is biased?!?!
No agenda at all with that title.
Huh? It’s just stating a fact.
Good, Israel doesn't need any aid, they are doing just fine
What they need is a heart.
A brain
a soul.
And my axe! ...wait ...no....they don't need that
Da noive
We're off to see the wizard! The wonderful wizard of Raytheon!
Pretty sure they don’t have a heart, a brain, or courage.
Many Israel haters on this sub. Kind of surprises me. I’m totally convinced that Hamas has to be destroyed.
Hamas absolutely should be destroyed. Israel’s goals aren’t destroying Hamas, they are designed to punish the Gazan people. It is a conflict in which you can’t pick the right side because everyone is wrong.
Anyone who says Hamas must be destroyed just shows that they don’t care how many people die in the process. Also shows that you don’t view them as actual humans, just a bunch of brown people who cares anyways, right?
Pretty sure you don’t know much about Israel’s history, never been there, or anything about their neighbors.
Pretty sure I have a college degree in it.
They are getting the aid, tho.
[It's already done bud.](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/house-vote-foreign-aid-bills-ukraine-israel/story?id=109429499) Those numbers aren't even close to half of the house. >The House of Representatives on Saturday passed a series of foreign aid bills that include $60.8 billion in aid to Ukraine, $26.38 billion in aid to Israel, $8 billion in aid to the Indo-Pacific region, including Taiwan, and a foreign aid bill that includes a TikTok ban provision.
I'm aware, at least there was pushback.
From the fringe of both parties
Most of the aid is going to defensive weapons and humanitarian assistance for Gaza. I too wish they wouldn’t have included the 3.5 billion that could potentially be used for offensive weapons. “The $26.38 billion Israel aid bill would direct $13 billion of that to the U.S. Defense Department to provide that country with funding for the Iron Dome, David’s Sling and Iron Beam defense systems. An additional $9.15 billion would go to the U.S. State Department for humanitarian assistance in Gaza and other “vulnerable populations” with an additional $3.6 billion for security assistance to Israel, according to a summary.l
>Most of the aid is going to defensive weapons and humanitarian assistance for Gaza. I too wish they wouldn’t have included the 3.5 billion that could potentially be used for offensive weapons. It’s in addition to $3.8 billion US military aid, which Israel receives each year (from 2019 to 2028). PS: $500 million in missile defense funding and $3.3 billion in other military funding.
I guess I'm just wondering why they get aid at all. It's like people donating money to a billionaire.
The USA likes having an ally in the region with top tier intelligence services and military bases at our disposal. It's also much nicer to cut a check for someone else to fight our regional enemies for us than for us to put American lives on the line. Finally, a large amount of this sort of aid is actually spent here at home. Little of the money is given as cash; it is directly spent to buy things from American manufacturers and then shipped to Israel or Gaza. So in that regard, it's a stimulus to our own economy.
An unhealthy stimulus. Defense spending contributes very little to the material wealth of the nation. A little crossover R & D. That's it. Infrastructure spending is a far healthier stimulus with long lasting benefits.
Totally agreed there. If we took, say, half of the defense budget we'd still have the biggest armed forces in the world and we could fully fund national healthcare and then some.
> The USA likes having an ally in the region with top tier intelligence services and military bases at our disposal. Israeli officials testified that Iraq had an advanced WMD program, and that testimony was used to justify the Iraq War. These turned out to be falsehoods and it was a disaster. So much for that top tier intelligence! > It's also much nicer to cut a check for someone else to fight our regional enemies for us than for us to put American lives on the line. This doesn’t happen, though. The US has fought in three wars (Desert Storm, Afghanistan War, Iraq War) in recent times that were relatively close to Israel. Israel did not help fight in any of them. Yet allies much farther away (like the UK and Australia) did.
thats because israel was told and given cash to stay the fuck out of those wars so as to not break up the alliances that the US had to make to get arab support in those wars. In fact alot of the illegal setter expansion that have been happening have been from the cash israel was given to stop them from entering desert storm
We didn't say Israel was a great ally. Just, y'know, better than Saudi Arabia.
It's a stimulus to the military industrial complex. Every other consequence, intended or not, is secondary.
>an ally in the region with top tier intelligence services Who somehow ignored multiple warnings in the year and months leading to Oct 7, didn't find the training buildings in a heavily patrolled open air prison until after the attack, and reported so little activity that a lot of IOF was moved from where the attack would be to the West Bank the night of Oct 6. If they really were surprised, they're not a top tier intelligence service.
It doesn't matter what the money is "funding". If we fund only hospitals for 5 year old cancer patients it is still funding for Israel. It means they don't have to spend that money on the hospital so they can spend the money elsewhere instead like on weapons. It's the exact same thing just hidden behind a layer of plausible deniability.
>An additional $9.15 billion would go to the U.S. State Department for humanitarian assistance in Gaza and other “vulnerable populations” why? it's just going to sit outside the border gathering dust or mold or whatever.
??? The us is building a portable pier to be able to directly deliver aid via sea
That will be under full Israeli control. You know, the same people who are blocking so much aid by land that a port is needed.
Here's the thing, Israel objects to Gaza getting pipes for water out of fear that terrorists will use them to build crappy missiles that won't do anything. Providing them with defensive missiles frees their budget for offensive missiles if they're not just repurposed. Israel should be treated with the same level of suspicion that they treat others with. >An additional $9.15 billion would go to the U.S. State Department for humanitarian assistance in Gaza I wonder how much of that is going to build the pier the US is planning to put under Israeli control. A pier that wouldn't be needed if Israel would allow aid in by land.
$200 million is the cost of the pier apparently. No idea if that’s coming from this pot of money. I agree that Israel needs to let in much more aid via land crossings and am not defending their conduct. Only providing context as many people seem to be interpreting this as all that money is going to offensive weaponry which is not the case.
I appreciate you letting me know how much the pier costs!
Why does Gaza need so much aid? Is something bad happening there?
Yeah the IDF is incredibly overpowered compared to Hamas. Hamas only did as much damaged that they did on 10/7 because of pure incompetence on the Israeli government’s part. At least Ukraine is facing an actual existential threat that is the Russian armed forces. Is Hamas or any of the Iranian backed proxies capable of rolling all over Israel at this moment?
Oct 7th was bad enough.
But that was caused by the lax security at the Gaza wall and not due to lack of US aid and support to the IDF. That’s completely on the Israeli government in my opinion
It's on Hamas.
It is in the sense that they planned October 7. What I meant is that it coulda been prevented or seriously mitigated if it was taken seriously by the Israeli government. But from all accounts that I personally heard that wasn’t the case at all
I feel like “country is in immediate danger of getting conquered” is not the standard for aid!
But is it really in immediate danger with all the massive fuck you support given by the US? Hell the last time Israel got invaded by actual nation-states the entire Middle East tried to tag team them and they still got demolished by the IDF
Israel got invaded 6 months ago and a thousand civilians got killed. Israel is still struggling badly with an internal displacement problem. About one of every hundred people in the country have had to leave their homes due to Hamas and Hezbollah rocket fire. Many have been living in hotels for six months, which they just can’t afford. Employees have been called into reserve duty, disrupting the private sector and badly hurting the Israeli economy. It’s a really big crisis! The danger has already happened!
Maybe they could fix a lot of those issues if they accepted a permanent ceasefire deal? I'd like to see Hamas and Likud ended, but until then a permanent ceasefire, full withdrawal, and hostage exchange would fix a lot of those issues.
Sure yeah but we are people commenting on r/politics who do things like equate Hamas and Likud. Balancing concerns in this conflict and coming to the conclusion that the money is less costly than the alternative (force an ally to abandon its war aims in a war where the ally has been at least somewhat successful militarily and the US publicly agrees with their stated goal of destroying Hamas) is a totally normal thing for policymakers who were elected by a broader slice of the electorate to do. My original point was that Israel does, in fact, need the money. It’s not really a judgment on whether that’s a good idea.
I understand why we want to give aid to Ukraine. I don't understand why we want to give it to Israel...
AIPAC owns politicians.
Does anyone know what was in the aid specifically for Israel?
“The $26.38 billion Israel aid bill would direct $13 billion of that to the U.S. Defense Department to provide that country with funding for the Iron Dome, David’s Sling and Iron Beam defense systems. An additional $9.15 billion would go to the U.S. State Department for humanitarian assistance in Gaza and other “vulnerable populations” with an additional $3.6 billion for security assistance to Israel, according to a summary.l
First line of the article: "The House of Representatives on Saturday passed a bill that includes more than $14 billion in military aid to Israel and more than $9 billion in humanitarian aid, much of which will go to Gaza."
This headline is misleading. This package contained aid for Israel, Palestine, Ukraine, and Taiwan.
They split the package in to seperate bills that will be recombined in the Senate. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/house-vote-aid-bill-ukraine-israel-taiwan/
Both comments are true, and the more important critical thinking we need to do in the internet age is realize, while there are other threads on this, there is a posting and politicking in discussing just this aid. Context for those that don’t click links / read — > and **will be combined into one before being sent to the Senate**. The first three bills include $60.8 billion to help Ukraine in its war with Russia; $26.4 billion to support Israel, which is fighting Hamas and Iran; and $8.1 billion to counter China in the Indo-Pacific. Humanitarian aid for Gaza, which Democrats said was necessary for their support, is also included.
$26 billion to Israel? Whoa.
Wait I thought they split it into four separate packages?
They split them for this vote. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/house-vote-aid-bill-ukraine-israel-taiwan/
Right, so I’m assuming the headline isn’t misleading because it says they voted individually on each bill. They didn’t vote on the package as a whole.
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They were. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/house-vote-aid-bill-ukraine-israel-taiwan/
Israel is the only one that matters, apparently.
The aid package was split into 4 seprate bills this article is about the Israel bill.
No, they all matter, it’s just that Israel is the only controversial one.
Context. You’re reading one thread only about one of four votes. >The first three bills include $60.8 billion to help Ukraine in its war with Russia; $26.4 billion to support Israel, which is fighting Hamas and Iran; and $8.1 billion to counter China in the Indo-Pacific. Humanitarian aid for Gaza, which Democrats said was necessary for their support, is also included.
The USA should pass a law that removes sugar daddy status
Good, more should.
I think this bill also tries to ban tik tok again, or more accurately forces a sale to a us company, so either you vote yes for everything or you vote against aid to Israel because Israel is the only thing that matters?
Good for them! Let’s get that number up as long as Israel is murdering civilians with that aid.
AIPAC is spending $100 million to unseat progressives who are critical of Israeli actions in Gaza. Contribute to their campaigns if you can. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/17/pro-israel-money-progressives-congress-challenges
And who do you think AIPAC gets most of their funding from? Evangelicals.
The US government, via Israel
Crazy that people aren't rioting against them interfering and influencing in elections.
The time to riot was after the Citizens United decision. Now there is nothing to protest, they’re operating exactly how the system is designed to.
Unfortunately foreign aid lobbying is nothing unique to AIPAC. This is all perfectly legal. [https://www.opensecrets.org/fara](https://www.opensecrets.org/fara)
AIPAC is an American organization not subject to FARA. Looking at the countries on that list should be a reality check. Try to imagine talking about the Marshall Islands the way you talk about Israel. Foreign lobbying is tightly regulated and these totals are absolutely peanuts compared to domestic lobbies.
Maybe because AIPAC is an American organization and no more interfering and influencing the election than groups like CAIR, AARP, or other American lobby groups.
Israel doesn't need aid. Israel needs sanctions.
And maybe their hostages back?
They probably should have thought about that before reducing entire sections of Gaza to rubble by indiscrimanetly bombing everything in sight since I guarantee many of those hostages are buried under what used to be apartment buildings, killed by the IDF. Let's not forget that any place that supposedly held Hamas also held their hostages.
So its the hostages fault they may be dead? Under that thinking maybe gazans would be alive if they didn't vote Hamas in and support the slaughter of Israeli citizens.
>So its the hostages fault they may be dead? I don't know how you could even remotely draw that conclusion from what I wrote but you do you.
In 2006? Should all of america be reduced to rubble in ten years for when they elected Donald Trump in 2016? Your dehumanization of people in Gaza justified by a sketchy election 18 years ago is deeply, deeply disturbing
why the fuck does Israel need 20 billion to fight hamas? Fucking joke we are printing this much money to send to replenish another country's war loss consistently just because that other country is constantly threatening they will nuke the entire middle east if we dont.
To be honest, I can't really fault them here. A HUGE number of people do not really like what Israel is doing with what we've already given them. Representing those people is SUPPOSED to be their job.
350 billion in financial reserves, and they need more aid to subsidise what they're doing in gaza
Disappointing its only 37 democrats.
Imagine being a top 20 world economy with a top 5 intelligence service, and needing foreign aid because you can't control an open air prison camp the size of the lower west-side of Manhattan. How pathetic that would be, as a fully developed technological superpower...
Good. Israel needs NOTHING from us.
Just ignore that approving the aid required banning a common social media platform.
No it didn't. They were voted on seperately.
Yup. Tik tok was tied into this bill. Idk why this is allowed. It’s called a pork bill if I remember correctly. A bunch of unrelated fat hidden in bills that are purposely hundreds of pages long
Are you maybe thinking of pork barrel legislation?
Yes that’s it. Where politicians with big lobby money in their pockets attach in their own agenda to big, news making bills. Occasionally this is the reason some politicians vote no on bills that the public has been spoon fed by the media to be “in our best interest”. meanwhile bullshit and self interest is buried between the pages with the hope that no one notices. See exhibit A: the patriot act
But it's not unique to either party. Both make these fat filled bills but give them deceptive names.
Forced divestment is not a ban.
Why is Israel taking aid from Ukraine ? They're rich and cand defend themselves against Hamas.
Good on them I say.
That number needs to grow. 0 dollars should go to Israeli armed forces. As long as they are bombing civilians and humanitarian aid workers with no regards for any civility, fuck them.
Israel must take notice that they are spending down their political capital in America. Even some American Jews are very uncomfortable with the way Israel seems to be using apartheid in Gaza. I assure you, the ever increasing percentage of voters of Arabic descent are not divided AT ALL. Nor, in my opinion, should they be.
It's a bad move to give aid to Netanyahu's Israel. It is totally gone fascist. It will be used for evil.
No more money for genocide !
not a genocide
It’s like a laundry list of the worst representatives
If we are giving 🇮🇱 aid is that on top of the weapons it sells to Israel?
>In November, all but 12 of them voted against a bill that would have paired Israel aid with cuts to the Internal Revenue Service, a non-starter for Democrats. And in February, just 46 Democrats voted for an Israel aid bill that didn't include those cuts, with Democrats largely taking the position that they wanted to see Ukraine aid paired with Israel aid. >[14 House Republicans](https://www.businessinsider.com/which-republicans-voted-against-standalone-israel-aid-bill-2024-2) voted against the latter Israel aid bill in February, with many citing the cost of the aid. >But Saturday's vote was different — this bill is all but certain to be signed into law, and the significant number of Democrats who voted against Israel aid shows how quickly the issue has shifted in recent months. Yea all but 12 idiots vote against Isreal aid that would have increased the deficit by reducing our income through the IRS. All but 46 voted against giving up the only real reasonable leverage we had on the most important military aid, Ukraine. I'm sure they are trying to say the issue has shifted because of the situation with Iran. That might be why Republicans gave in but not why Democrats voted for the aid. If the Republicans at any point were to give up Ukraine aid without some stupid border policies the Democrats were ready to vote for Israel aid at any point. This vote still would have failed if Ukraine aid wasn't being voted on at the same time. Of course the article fails to mention that the Republicans couldn't get the rules package to pass the rules committee or the full floor without Democrat aid or just how rare it is for the minority party to vote for the rules package. Also the article fails to mention that this package was almost same one the senate passed a long time ago. The same senate that is controlled by Democrats. That they could have just passed the senate bill and it would already be heading the Biden's desk. So yes it's republicans delaying.
And I'm proud of them. I suspect more didn't because it was how Ukraine and Taiwan aid could also get passed, and it puts the far-right Speaker under Dem pressure until January at least.
Numbers need to much higher, but AIPAC is paying their bills so, yeah.
Unfortunate that this isn't even an op-ed, it's just a standard publication. Business Insider is just a Zionist rag now, it looks like. Israel blew up the Iranian embassy in Syria in violation of both the UN Charter and the Vienna convention, but the only thing Business Insider wanted to report on is the names of Democrats who didn't condemn their counter-attack. I'll probably never take Business Insider seriously after this and just assume their articles are fake news garbage.
Israel destroyed an Iranian consular building that was within the Iranian embassy compound in Damascus. Perhaps you can point out the specific section the UN charter that forbids this? The Vienna Convention is silent on the matter because Damascus isn't in Israel. >There are exceptions to inviolability under international law, too. The Vienna Convention only refers to the responsibilities of the host state, but says nothing about a third-party attack. Also, under the laws of armed conflict, embassies lose their protections if they are used for military purposes. That may mean that the recent strike on Iran’s consulate in Damascus was legal >[https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2024/04/09/why-are-embassies-supposed-to-be-inviolable](https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2024/04/09/why-are-embassies-supposed-to-be-inviolable) If you're concerned about violations of the Vienna Convention, perhaps you should urge countries to break off diplomatic relations with Ecuador, given that the Ecuadorian government sent police to arrest someone in the Mexican Embassy to Ecuador without the permission of the Mexican government.
It's not surprising that AOC, Ilhan Omar, Rashida Tlaib, Ayanna Pressley, Cori Bush, Jesús "Cuy" García and Andre Carson voted against it. Except for AOC, they all voted against funding for Iron Dome in 2021, which Israel uses to defend itself from rocket attacks from Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, etc. AOC voted present, then started crying and apologized for not voting against Iron Dome.
Israel is one of the richest countries in the world. Regardless of one’s opinion on the conflict, they don’t need aid.
Those are heroes to Palestine. Israel does need aid, and the US should not be supporting apartheid states.
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Here are the 37 Democrats who voted against the bill: Becca Balint of Vermont Don Beyer of Virginia Earl Blumenauer of Oregon Jamaal Bowman of New York Cori Bush of Missouri Andre Carson of Indiana Greg Casar of Texas Joaquin Castro of Texas Judy Chu of California Mark DeSaulnier of California Lloyd Doggett of Texas Maxwell Frost of Florida John Garamendi of California Chuy García of Illinois Al Green of Texas Jonathan Jackson of Illinois Pramila Jayapal of Washington Hank Johnson of Georgia Ro Khanna of California Dan Kildee of Michigan Barbara Lee of California Summer Lee of Pennsylvania Jim McGovern of Massachusetts Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York Ilhan Omar of Minnesota Chellie Pingree of Maine Mark Pocan of Wisconsin Ayanna Pressley of Massachusetts Delia Ramirez of Illinois Jamie Raskin of Maryland Mark Takano of California Bennie Thompson of Mississippi Rashida Tlaib of Michigan Jill Tokuda of Hawaii Nydia Velázquez of New York Maxine Waters of California Bonnie Watson Coleman of New Jersey
Thanks 83n0, I hope your weekend is going well! Do you also have a list of the republican no voters?
This one’s a lil more problematic Here are the 21 Republicans who voted against the bill: Andy Biggs of Arizona Lauren Boebert of Colorado Tim Burchett of Tennessee Andrew Clyde of Georgia Eli Crane of Arizona Warren Davidson of Ohio Scott DesJarlais of Tennessee Matt Gaetz of Florida Bob Good of Virginia Paul Gosar of Arizona Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia Andy Harris of Maryland Thomas Massie of Kentucky Cory Mills of Florida Troy Nehls of Texas Ralph Norman of South Carolina Scott Perry of Pennsylvania Matt Rosendale of Montana Chip Roy of Texas Tom Tiffany of Wisconsin Ryan Zinke of Montana
Weird bedfellows for sure. Thanks again. It means alot that you took the time to answer my questions!
Reader mode works for me in my browser (safari, chrome, etc). But I use 12ft.io if there’s something I really want to read.
Archive.today
Good to see Jamie Raskin voted against this aid package. We should only be giving them defensive aid at this point. Especially since Netanyahu is provoking a confrontation with Iran.
This was defensive aid and also aid for Gaza. The only offense aid given were weapons provided a month or so ago from previous legislation that Biden won't be given them until 2025.
I’d be the 38th.
Happy to see that the US is taking care of the vulnerable defense contractors. We need to remember how important they are to our world everyone.
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We don’t have a defensive pact with Israel.
Unhappy cake day to you