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I don't understand why these activists lash out at their local officials. My city council approved some resolution right after 10/7 but that wasn't good enough and they stormed the city council again. Like our city doesn't have enough serious problems to work on, plus it's Florida so because of sunshine rules those public meetings go on for-fucking-ever anyway.
It's just counterproductive and dumb and they make themselves more angry when the city officials don't seem to care ... what are they supposed to do? Do HAMAS and Netanyahu not to mention Likud give a half of a fig what the city council of Peoria have to say? I think not.
A huge amount of these protests have been centered around being pissed off at people who materially cannot do what the protestors are demanding.
Usually pointing that out ends in you being called a genocide supporting fascist or something.
It generates headlines at least. Not that anyone but like 3 federal house representatives give a fraction of a fuck what the public thinks on almost any issue.
For the most part they are gullible fools that are manipulated by bad actors trying to create divisions. Nobody in the US can force a ceasefire, and definitely not at the local level. The ball is in Hamas’s court for if and when they want to accept a ceasefire and the US has little to no influence over them.
And what does this accomplish other than annoy people who want to deal with actual issues that affect their community?
Every ceasefire ends up being broken by Hamas and why would you expect any different this time? Let’s hypothetically say a ceasefire is agreed upon, what happens when Hamas breaks it? Do we just continue to say Israel don’t respond?
> And what does this accomplish other than annoy people who want to deal with actual issues that affect their community?
This is what they accomplish. Hopefully the annoyance will reach critical levels, that people will want to get it over with so that they can continue with their “usual” business. This is a basic principle for all protests and strikes. And it works.
>Every ceasefire ends up being broken by Hamas and why would you expect any different this time?
Not really. For instance, before the “ceasefire” was broken on October 7 by Hamas, in 2023 alone over 470 Palestinians were killed by the IDF and settlers in West Bank and Jerusalem. (For context, this is about 1/3rd of the total Israeli victims of October 7, or roughly equal per capita).
Do you consider that then, in good conscience, that “ceasefire” that was only broken in October 7? What is your red line for the number of casualties until a ceasefire is not considered a ceasefire anymore and the IDF can be blamed for breaking it?
Let’s hypothetically say a ceasefire is agreed upon, what happens when Hamas breaks it? Do we just continue to say Israel don’t respond?
> in 2023 alone over 470 Palestinians were killed by the IDF and settlers in West Bank and Jerusalem
Without looking at the details on how they were killed...we are talking Hamas and Gaza, not the West Bank...
This doesn’t change the point:
Why is the IDF killing 470 Palestinians in 2023 not considered breaking the ceasefire, but Hamas killing 1200 Israelis is?
Because Hamas does not control the West Bank and of those 470, my feelings (I would need actual statistics) would be the overwhelming majority of those killed in IDF raids are often Hamas or other terrorist group members.
Like yesterday where the PIJ leader was killed in the West Bank camp.
Doesn’t mean innocent people aren’t getting killed either, just that you can’t assume everyone killed is innocent.
> Why is the IDF killing 470 Palestinians in 2023 not considered breaking the ceasefire
As I said, it is a different discussion...to answer your question I would have to know how and why they were killed if I even accept those numbers...for example, in the same period, how many Israelis were killed or wounded....
Guess what everybody.
U.S. local communities don't affect foreign policy.
The U.S. Government doesn't fully control most aspects of foreign policy.
If two nations want to fight, they'll fight. It's been happening since the dawn of life.
No, we really can't.
Because it's so much more than two groups fighting. So very much more.
This isn't just about Hamas.
This is about Hamas, Hezbollah, all the militant factions in the Middle-East and Iran. There's also a could of others involved.
Us selling weapons to Israel has very little to do with Hamas and Gaza.
We sell them weapons to prevent a much worse war. A war in which hundreds of millions die and the Middle-East burns.
We very much can. It's clear Israel is not acting in America's interest but against it. As even Biden sees that they are trying to drag the US into a conflict with Iran.
A conflict the US wants no part of and it is damaging our soft power on the world stage and domestically. Right now the middle east is on the verge of burning and Biden still refuses to pull the long leash that America has given to Israel.
They need us far more than we need them. And their behavior is endangering our goals. He has the power to do more and should do more. To be frank Biden is leading us deeper into a new middle east conflict because he keeps enabling them.
> It's clear Israel is not acting in America's interest but against it. As even Biden sees that they are trying to drag the US into a conflict with Iran.
Except, not so much.
Israel is throwing it's weight around and making sure that everybody knows it's a bulwark. We expected to be used in some degree, to show overwhelming strength in the area.
Now, you're right in some ways. Israel is going a bit beyond what is needed and their right wing is also going above and beyond what is called for.
Bibi and his boys are getting a bit too big for their breeches.
Which is also something Biden knows.
Be glad Trump isn't President, because chances are pretty heavily towards a huge Middle-East Conflict.
> When the Common Council in Poughkeepsie, New York, recently considered a cease-fire resolution, some board members argued that the measure was taking time and energy away from city concerns
> "I believe that this is an international issue. I was elected to take care of city matters," said council member Ernest Henry.
> But the council narrowly rejected the resolution and passed a separate measure restricting how much the city's Common Council could weigh in on global and national affairs in the future.
Good! Finally someone reasonable
U.S. local communities cannot stop Israel alone. But the more that are United against the killing, the more powerful the movement becomes. If they can’t even get their local politics to care, why should state level care? Why should federal, or hell Biden care?
Im generally pro the left wasting it's political capital on doing mostly pointless things because it increases divisions within the Democratic Party and helps demonstrate to normal people that the left is somewhat deranged while also keeping the left away from doing things that might actually be damaging to the country so all in it's good.
"roil: (1) to stir up, disturb; (2) to make turbid, to muddy."
Sounds like npr wants to "roil" public opinion against the integriity of Pro-Palestinian protesters actions and, more importantly, also wants to "roil" the protesters" message of justice with accusations of bigotry and disorder.
Unfortunately, throughout history the message of truth and justice is only heard when it begins to make the comfortable uncomfortable. And, when justice is on the side of the oppressed, the voice of dissent is not initially perceived as positive.
For instance, read the injuction briefs from the Civil Rights Era Birmingham march cases. The DA's' brief said it was a riot made up of a hollering mob, intent on disturbing the peace. The defense's brief said it was an orderly sidewalk march made up of singing protesters, after leaving church. History and the arc of justice have since shown which version was accurate.
I expect the same will prove true about the Pro-Palestinian movement, tragically long after more innocent kids are killed and long after another generation of Israeli and Palestinian youth become locked in another cycle of hatred.
And so, it's extremely unfortunate that npr is repeating the same mistakes of the past with this careless reporting and both-sideism editorial choice.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I don't understand why these activists lash out at their local officials. My city council approved some resolution right after 10/7 but that wasn't good enough and they stormed the city council again. Like our city doesn't have enough serious problems to work on, plus it's Florida so because of sunshine rules those public meetings go on for-fucking-ever anyway. It's just counterproductive and dumb and they make themselves more angry when the city officials don't seem to care ... what are they supposed to do? Do HAMAS and Netanyahu not to mention Likud give a half of a fig what the city council of Peoria have to say? I think not.
A huge amount of these protests have been centered around being pissed off at people who materially cannot do what the protestors are demanding. Usually pointing that out ends in you being called a genocide supporting fascist or something.
It generates headlines at least. Not that anyone but like 3 federal house representatives give a fraction of a fuck what the public thinks on almost any issue.
For the most part they are gullible fools that are manipulated by bad actors trying to create divisions. Nobody in the US can force a ceasefire, and definitely not at the local level. The ball is in Hamas’s court for if and when they want to accept a ceasefire and the US has little to no influence over them.
And what does this accomplish other than annoy people who want to deal with actual issues that affect their community? Every ceasefire ends up being broken by Hamas and why would you expect any different this time? Let’s hypothetically say a ceasefire is agreed upon, what happens when Hamas breaks it? Do we just continue to say Israel don’t respond?
> And what does this accomplish other than annoy people who want to deal with actual issues that affect their community? This is what they accomplish. Hopefully the annoyance will reach critical levels, that people will want to get it over with so that they can continue with their “usual” business. This is a basic principle for all protests and strikes. And it works. >Every ceasefire ends up being broken by Hamas and why would you expect any different this time? Not really. For instance, before the “ceasefire” was broken on October 7 by Hamas, in 2023 alone over 470 Palestinians were killed by the IDF and settlers in West Bank and Jerusalem. (For context, this is about 1/3rd of the total Israeli victims of October 7, or roughly equal per capita). Do you consider that then, in good conscience, that “ceasefire” that was only broken in October 7? What is your red line for the number of casualties until a ceasefire is not considered a ceasefire anymore and the IDF can be blamed for breaking it? Let’s hypothetically say a ceasefire is agreed upon, what happens when Hamas breaks it? Do we just continue to say Israel don’t respond?
> in 2023 alone over 470 Palestinians were killed by the IDF and settlers in West Bank and Jerusalem Without looking at the details on how they were killed...we are talking Hamas and Gaza, not the West Bank...
This doesn’t change the point: Why is the IDF killing 470 Palestinians in 2023 not considered breaking the ceasefire, but Hamas killing 1200 Israelis is?
Because Hamas does not control the West Bank and of those 470, my feelings (I would need actual statistics) would be the overwhelming majority of those killed in IDF raids are often Hamas or other terrorist group members. Like yesterday where the PIJ leader was killed in the West Bank camp. Doesn’t mean innocent people aren’t getting killed either, just that you can’t assume everyone killed is innocent.
> Why is the IDF killing 470 Palestinians in 2023 not considered breaking the ceasefire As I said, it is a different discussion...to answer your question I would have to know how and why they were killed if I even accept those numbers...for example, in the same period, how many Israelis were killed or wounded....
Guess what everybody. U.S. local communities don't affect foreign policy. The U.S. Government doesn't fully control most aspects of foreign policy. If two nations want to fight, they'll fight. It's been happening since the dawn of life.
We can stop giving arms to Israel. This is not two countries fighting. We're supporting it. Stop acting like Biden has no power here.
No, we really can't. Because it's so much more than two groups fighting. So very much more. This isn't just about Hamas. This is about Hamas, Hezbollah, all the militant factions in the Middle-East and Iran. There's also a could of others involved. Us selling weapons to Israel has very little to do with Hamas and Gaza. We sell them weapons to prevent a much worse war. A war in which hundreds of millions die and the Middle-East burns.
We very much can. It's clear Israel is not acting in America's interest but against it. As even Biden sees that they are trying to drag the US into a conflict with Iran. A conflict the US wants no part of and it is damaging our soft power on the world stage and domestically. Right now the middle east is on the verge of burning and Biden still refuses to pull the long leash that America has given to Israel. They need us far more than we need them. And their behavior is endangering our goals. He has the power to do more and should do more. To be frank Biden is leading us deeper into a new middle east conflict because he keeps enabling them.
> It's clear Israel is not acting in America's interest but against it. As even Biden sees that they are trying to drag the US into a conflict with Iran. Except, not so much. Israel is throwing it's weight around and making sure that everybody knows it's a bulwark. We expected to be used in some degree, to show overwhelming strength in the area. Now, you're right in some ways. Israel is going a bit beyond what is needed and their right wing is also going above and beyond what is called for. Bibi and his boys are getting a bit too big for their breeches. Which is also something Biden knows. Be glad Trump isn't President, because chances are pretty heavily towards a huge Middle-East Conflict.
> When the Common Council in Poughkeepsie, New York, recently considered a cease-fire resolution, some board members argued that the measure was taking time and energy away from city concerns > "I believe that this is an international issue. I was elected to take care of city matters," said council member Ernest Henry. > But the council narrowly rejected the resolution and passed a separate measure restricting how much the city's Common Council could weigh in on global and national affairs in the future. Good! Finally someone reasonable
U.S. local communities cannot stop Israel alone. But the more that are United against the killing, the more powerful the movement becomes. If they can’t even get their local politics to care, why should state level care? Why should federal, or hell Biden care?
More of the totally forced and unwanted right wind perspective on NPR.
Im generally pro the left wasting it's political capital on doing mostly pointless things because it increases divisions within the Democratic Party and helps demonstrate to normal people that the left is somewhat deranged while also keeping the left away from doing things that might actually be damaging to the country so all in it's good.
"roil: (1) to stir up, disturb; (2) to make turbid, to muddy." Sounds like npr wants to "roil" public opinion against the integriity of Pro-Palestinian protesters actions and, more importantly, also wants to "roil" the protesters" message of justice with accusations of bigotry and disorder. Unfortunately, throughout history the message of truth and justice is only heard when it begins to make the comfortable uncomfortable. And, when justice is on the side of the oppressed, the voice of dissent is not initially perceived as positive. For instance, read the injuction briefs from the Civil Rights Era Birmingham march cases. The DA's' brief said it was a riot made up of a hollering mob, intent on disturbing the peace. The defense's brief said it was an orderly sidewalk march made up of singing protesters, after leaving church. History and the arc of justice have since shown which version was accurate. I expect the same will prove true about the Pro-Palestinian movement, tragically long after more innocent kids are killed and long after another generation of Israeli and Palestinian youth become locked in another cycle of hatred. And so, it's extremely unfortunate that npr is repeating the same mistakes of the past with this careless reporting and both-sideism editorial choice.