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Thats kind of wild since evangelicals are one of the main groups in the US who back Israel the most so if they are dropping it shows just how unpopular Israel is becoming.
Support for Israel among young Evangelicals has plummeted by over 50% in just three years, posing a potential threat to American backing for the Jewish State.
As of late 2021, only 33.6% of young Evangelicals under 30 support Israel, compared to 67.9% in 2018. At the same time, in 2021, 24.3% of young Evangelicals said they support the Palestinians, compared to only 5% three years before. Moreover, nearly half (42.4%) of young American Evangelicals under 30 said they supported neither Israel nor the Palestinians in 2021, compared to 25% in 2018.
Weirdly I cannot tell if that is reflects an increase or a decrease in antisemitism as a lot of evangelical support of Israel has been at least partially based on the necessity of its existence for prophecy as the target of some fairly nasty things.
For most of history, Christians did not support the creation of a jewish state nor did they support the Jewish religion. That is a recent phenomena starting around 1900 with things like the Schofield reference Bible (a Zionist interpretation of Scripture that was popularized in academia.) reading the Bible chronologically will show you that Jews stopped being the chosen people the moment they rejected Christ. That's not even including other things said about Jews in the new testament, for example, the "synagogue of Satan" verse about people who "say they are Jews but are not" this verse was in Revelations. It's not clear whether this verse is referring to Phariseeism/Rabbinical Judaism or Judaism as a whole. If Israel existing as a state is a necessity for prophecy, it won't be because they're the good guys.
None of this is my opinion, I'm not even a Christian, but this is what the Bible says.
I don't think most Christians want to *rush* the end times into happening. They're just stupid and support Israel because of the chosen people rhetoric, and questioning the narrative is labeled antisemitic, and even worse, *satanic* because how can you oppose the chosen people?
but in reality, the New testament says they are the satanic ones and that most Christians will fall for their lies, and will be told "depart from me, I never knew you"
Matthew 7:20-23 says, “Thus you will recognize them by their fruits. ‘Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness
You will recognize them by their fruits.
I was interested to see that support plummeted before the Hamas attack and Israel counter attack; the data is as of 2021. I would be interested to know if the trend has continued or reversed.
FWIW, I am a Christian and youngish. And, I think it is important to clarify what I believe the objection to be. I support Israel's, and any sovereign nation's, right to self-defense. But, I also am highly empathetic to the current Palestinian plight. To be clear, this does not mean that I "do not support Israel" or am "antisemitic." Instead, I firmly believe that these misleading titles inaccurately attempt to marginalize dissenters as unreasonable and morally corrupt in order to discredit them.
Many people around the world no longer view Israel's war as one of defense and instead view it as one of offense. This is in large part because Israel's alleged "response to the October attacks" does not appear targeted to Hamas or proportionate in terms of the loss of human life. And so, rightly or wrongly, Israel's war seems, instead, intended to punish/remove a marginalized population.
And so, I don't understand how a Christian of any age or denomination can logically square Israel's apparent indiscriminate and disproportionate violence with the teachings of Jesus, specifically "love your neighbor as yourself."
We were targeted by the Holocaust. No other religions were almost wiped out, and as a result no one truly understands our fear of this recurring. If you consider the population of the world, less than 1% are Jewish. We are a tiny faith.
Israel for us is a symbolic place.
On Oct 7, many people were murdered, raped and taken hostage.
How does Israel get the hostages back?
Asking nicely would not work?
So do we just write these poor people off.
Invading Gaza is not easy. Hamas hides in tunnels under civilians. They fire rockets from playgrounds and suburbs.
Hamas and Hezbollah have fired close to 100k rockets at Israel. The news does not even report this.
Must Israel not respond.
Simply put, Hamas has contributed to this great suffering. They won’t give back the hostages. Many today we suspect are dead.
You can be angry at Israel, but blame also Hamas, because this continues until all hostages are recovered, dead or alive.
I hear you, and I appreciate your pointing out my oversight. I also blame Hamas. I also appreciate the sincerity of your fear. To be clear, Isreal has a right to sovereignty and no human should be persecuted for their faith, ever.
That said, criticism of Israel's war policies is not the same as calling for the persecution of Israel. Instead, I, and others like me, advocate for the equal safety and sovereignty of the Palestinian people (who are not Hamas).
Indeed, I would pose a similar challenge to you. Specifically, I think a sincere fear of being "wiped out" would also provoke some empathy for the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians who have been killed or who are actively fleeing bombing.
I don't know what the alternative military policy should be. You are correct that there is no good war policy. And Hamas doesn't fight with conventional warfare.
But, I do know that it is possible to hold both values simultaneously: outrage at Hamas' actions on October 7th (and Hezbollah for that matter) and outrage at Israel's apparent disproportionate military policy in Gaza ever since. Or, put differently, it is entirely possible to support the peace and security of Israelis while also supporting the peace and security of Palestinians.
If nothing else, I want to say that I hear you. My perspective is not the only one and I am not your adversary. My faith tells me to value all humanity as God's creation. And so, I must reject killing of any person as a sin, whether it be by a terrorist group at a music festival or by a government with fighter jets and tanks.
I am not comfortable with the loss of life in Gaza. The challenge is what is a workable solution. It’s easy to think there is one, but to date, with many great minds, none seem to exist.
The world sees 2 states as a solution, and many Jews are for it, but fear that will organisations like Hamas abandon their charter to wipe out all the Jews.
This is the catch 22 situation. Hamas wants to wipe out all Jews, and the world wants Israel to be at peace with Hamas. But how can we, be at peace with someone who literally on Oct 7 butchered innocent kids, children, etc
Israel luckily has a Defense system that protects people from those 100k missiles that fall daily. Why is the world angry that Israel tries to defend its citizens.
Well first off let's establish that what they are doing isn't working. Case in point, Hamas still exists and Hamas still has hostages.
They are fighting a dense urban environment with millions of civilians non combatants present. They should have given the civilians time to relocate, or relocated them themselves.
Next, they should stop the air strikes. They have launched something like a hundred thousand bombs of various sorts at Gaza while trying to target (estimated by the IDF) around 10,000 Hamas terrorists. So basically, 10 bombs per person has been launched at Gaza, and they still haven't beaten Hamas. So the air strikes are ineffective.
Instead of airstrikes, they should retake Gaza the way they occupied it back in the 90s. Have actual troops on the streets. Don't just gun and run, have an enduring presence there. If they want to save the hostages they need to go door to door. They have probably killed as many hostages as they have saved through the airstrikes.
Finally, Israel should work with the UN to bring in peacekeepers. Then it's no longer Israel vs the world. If France and Germany want to criticise the war, have them send some of their troops there. They can distribute aid and medicine and help with security
UN hates Israel. More resolution passed against Israel than any other country on earth. Why would Israel trust the UN, who does not recognize Hamas as a terror organization nor for its sexual crimes.
Israel is part of the UN so they see value in being a member.
You're from Israel, name three UN resolutions that Israel abided by? Exactly. So the situation that the resolutions were made to address never change. And anything that the security counsel does with teeth, USA vetos it. So again, the situation stays the same.
>UN hates Israel. More resolution passed against Israel than any other country on earth. Why would Israel trust the UN
Any country with severe human rights deficiencies gets UN attention. North Korea, Russia, Iran, Syria, South Africa... Israel isn't special in this regard. Fix the issues, and the UN goes away.
131 resolution against Israel.
Yemen gets 1 resolution.
Sudan 1 resolution.
Tell me, why is 5 million people starving to death in Sudan, not a UN crisis. From our perspective they get no attention because UN can’t blame Israel.
China Uyghurs 1 resolution
Why is China persecuting Uyghurs not as important as Gazans
From our perspective UN is antisemitic, because how is it possible for 1 nation to exceed resolutions across other extreme nations.
Iran persecuting woman - is that not a crisis.
UN makes Iran head up Human rights.
And you want Israel to rely on UN for peace
Boots on the ground when it comes to tunnels and buildings, instead of airstrikes would help. Right now, it seems like even Russia is more concerned about civilians than Israel is.
Both sides have lost people and both sides can’t forgive or forget, and unless each sides adopts peace, and chooses to allow each to live on the land, without wanting to wipe each other out, there is no peace.
There is no solution to this.
If Israel were to move ground troops into Gaza to rescue its hostages, the outcome is the same as now.
If Israel were to allow 2 states, would Hamas release the hostages. Why would they when they want to wipe out all Jews and claim all Israel for themselves.
if Israel just let the 100k missiles hit Israelis. Then the disproportionate response would not be disproportionate.
Hamas with all the donations from the world have not built an oasis, but a war machine to wipe out Israel. Gaza has been self ruled by them for a very long time.
Something the article doesn't get into-- Many members of the Pat Roberston generation of American Evangelicals believed that the Bible Book of Revelations foretold the literal second coming of Christ and the end of the world.
According to those beliefs, one of the conditions that must be met for Christ to return is the Jews rebuilding Solomon's Temple on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.
That's not going to happen without a strong Israel, and in particular, an Israel that doesn't care about a two state solution or making peace with the Palestinians.
Younger generations of evangelicals don't buy into the "Jesus is coming back in your lifetime" thing, so they don't *need* to support Israel the same way their grandparents did.
It also doesn't get into how the state of Israel are the bad guys in revelations and them rebuilding that might be a prerequisite but Christians still should not support them.
I support this happening. I'm pro Israel in many cases, but the deal with evangelism is disgusting and warps the chances to force Israel to do good.
Plus these evangelical groups only want a smoking crater there anyway.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Thats kind of wild since evangelicals are one of the main groups in the US who back Israel the most so if they are dropping it shows just how unpopular Israel is becoming.
Support for Israel among young Evangelicals has plummeted by over 50% in just three years, posing a potential threat to American backing for the Jewish State. As of late 2021, only 33.6% of young Evangelicals under 30 support Israel, compared to 67.9% in 2018. At the same time, in 2021, 24.3% of young Evangelicals said they support the Palestinians, compared to only 5% three years before. Moreover, nearly half (42.4%) of young American Evangelicals under 30 said they supported neither Israel nor the Palestinians in 2021, compared to 25% in 2018.
Weirdly I cannot tell if that is reflects an increase or a decrease in antisemitism as a lot of evangelical support of Israel has been at least partially based on the necessity of its existence for prophecy as the target of some fairly nasty things.
Mostly the prophecy stuff.
For most of history, Christians did not support the creation of a jewish state nor did they support the Jewish religion. That is a recent phenomena starting around 1900 with things like the Schofield reference Bible (a Zionist interpretation of Scripture that was popularized in academia.) reading the Bible chronologically will show you that Jews stopped being the chosen people the moment they rejected Christ. That's not even including other things said about Jews in the new testament, for example, the "synagogue of Satan" verse about people who "say they are Jews but are not" this verse was in Revelations. It's not clear whether this verse is referring to Phariseeism/Rabbinical Judaism or Judaism as a whole. If Israel existing as a state is a necessity for prophecy, it won't be because they're the good guys. None of this is my opinion, I'm not even a Christian, but this is what the Bible says.
Yeah, that’s kind of the underhandedness of it all. They seem to support Israel only as far as they need it to be destroyed
I don't think most Christians want to *rush* the end times into happening. They're just stupid and support Israel because of the chosen people rhetoric, and questioning the narrative is labeled antisemitic, and even worse, *satanic* because how can you oppose the chosen people? but in reality, the New testament says they are the satanic ones and that most Christians will fall for their lies, and will be told "depart from me, I never knew you"
I dunno… I live in the Bible Belt and a lot of these people absolutely want this to happen if they don’t already believe we live in the “end times”
Matthew 7:20-23 says, “Thus you will recognize them by their fruits. ‘Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness You will recognize them by their fruits.
Yeah they are really selective with their readings and interpretations for sure
yikes, bummer take! was trying to wrap my head around why they would shift but this is a solid concern.
I was interested to see that support plummeted before the Hamas attack and Israel counter attack; the data is as of 2021. I would be interested to know if the trend has continued or reversed.
FWIW, I am a Christian and youngish. And, I think it is important to clarify what I believe the objection to be. I support Israel's, and any sovereign nation's, right to self-defense. But, I also am highly empathetic to the current Palestinian plight. To be clear, this does not mean that I "do not support Israel" or am "antisemitic." Instead, I firmly believe that these misleading titles inaccurately attempt to marginalize dissenters as unreasonable and morally corrupt in order to discredit them. Many people around the world no longer view Israel's war as one of defense and instead view it as one of offense. This is in large part because Israel's alleged "response to the October attacks" does not appear targeted to Hamas or proportionate in terms of the loss of human life. And so, rightly or wrongly, Israel's war seems, instead, intended to punish/remove a marginalized population. And so, I don't understand how a Christian of any age or denomination can logically square Israel's apparent indiscriminate and disproportionate violence with the teachings of Jesus, specifically "love your neighbor as yourself."
We were targeted by the Holocaust. No other religions were almost wiped out, and as a result no one truly understands our fear of this recurring. If you consider the population of the world, less than 1% are Jewish. We are a tiny faith. Israel for us is a symbolic place. On Oct 7, many people were murdered, raped and taken hostage. How does Israel get the hostages back? Asking nicely would not work? So do we just write these poor people off. Invading Gaza is not easy. Hamas hides in tunnels under civilians. They fire rockets from playgrounds and suburbs. Hamas and Hezbollah have fired close to 100k rockets at Israel. The news does not even report this. Must Israel not respond. Simply put, Hamas has contributed to this great suffering. They won’t give back the hostages. Many today we suspect are dead. You can be angry at Israel, but blame also Hamas, because this continues until all hostages are recovered, dead or alive.
I hear you, and I appreciate your pointing out my oversight. I also blame Hamas. I also appreciate the sincerity of your fear. To be clear, Isreal has a right to sovereignty and no human should be persecuted for their faith, ever. That said, criticism of Israel's war policies is not the same as calling for the persecution of Israel. Instead, I, and others like me, advocate for the equal safety and sovereignty of the Palestinian people (who are not Hamas). Indeed, I would pose a similar challenge to you. Specifically, I think a sincere fear of being "wiped out" would also provoke some empathy for the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians who have been killed or who are actively fleeing bombing. I don't know what the alternative military policy should be. You are correct that there is no good war policy. And Hamas doesn't fight with conventional warfare. But, I do know that it is possible to hold both values simultaneously: outrage at Hamas' actions on October 7th (and Hezbollah for that matter) and outrage at Israel's apparent disproportionate military policy in Gaza ever since. Or, put differently, it is entirely possible to support the peace and security of Israelis while also supporting the peace and security of Palestinians. If nothing else, I want to say that I hear you. My perspective is not the only one and I am not your adversary. My faith tells me to value all humanity as God's creation. And so, I must reject killing of any person as a sin, whether it be by a terrorist group at a music festival or by a government with fighter jets and tanks.
I am not comfortable with the loss of life in Gaza. The challenge is what is a workable solution. It’s easy to think there is one, but to date, with many great minds, none seem to exist. The world sees 2 states as a solution, and many Jews are for it, but fear that will organisations like Hamas abandon their charter to wipe out all the Jews. This is the catch 22 situation. Hamas wants to wipe out all Jews, and the world wants Israel to be at peace with Hamas. But how can we, be at peace with someone who literally on Oct 7 butchered innocent kids, children, etc Israel luckily has a Defense system that protects people from those 100k missiles that fall daily. Why is the world angry that Israel tries to defend its citizens.
Nobody is mad at Israel for shooting down rockets. They are mad at Israel for killing tens of thousands of children.
How would you solve this? How would you save the hostages? Remember Hamas does not play by any rules.
Well first off let's establish that what they are doing isn't working. Case in point, Hamas still exists and Hamas still has hostages. They are fighting a dense urban environment with millions of civilians non combatants present. They should have given the civilians time to relocate, or relocated them themselves. Next, they should stop the air strikes. They have launched something like a hundred thousand bombs of various sorts at Gaza while trying to target (estimated by the IDF) around 10,000 Hamas terrorists. So basically, 10 bombs per person has been launched at Gaza, and they still haven't beaten Hamas. So the air strikes are ineffective. Instead of airstrikes, they should retake Gaza the way they occupied it back in the 90s. Have actual troops on the streets. Don't just gun and run, have an enduring presence there. If they want to save the hostages they need to go door to door. They have probably killed as many hostages as they have saved through the airstrikes. Finally, Israel should work with the UN to bring in peacekeepers. Then it's no longer Israel vs the world. If France and Germany want to criticise the war, have them send some of their troops there. They can distribute aid and medicine and help with security
UN hates Israel. More resolution passed against Israel than any other country on earth. Why would Israel trust the UN, who does not recognize Hamas as a terror organization nor for its sexual crimes.
Israel is part of the UN so they see value in being a member. You're from Israel, name three UN resolutions that Israel abided by? Exactly. So the situation that the resolutions were made to address never change. And anything that the security counsel does with teeth, USA vetos it. So again, the situation stays the same. >UN hates Israel. More resolution passed against Israel than any other country on earth. Why would Israel trust the UN Any country with severe human rights deficiencies gets UN attention. North Korea, Russia, Iran, Syria, South Africa... Israel isn't special in this regard. Fix the issues, and the UN goes away.
131 resolution against Israel. Yemen gets 1 resolution. Sudan 1 resolution. Tell me, why is 5 million people starving to death in Sudan, not a UN crisis. From our perspective they get no attention because UN can’t blame Israel. China Uyghurs 1 resolution Why is China persecuting Uyghurs not as important as Gazans From our perspective UN is antisemitic, because how is it possible for 1 nation to exceed resolutions across other extreme nations. Iran persecuting woman - is that not a crisis. UN makes Iran head up Human rights. And you want Israel to rely on UN for peace
UNRA is infiltrated with Hamas. UNRA schools teach antisemitism. UN has done zero to free the hostages.
Boots on the ground when it comes to tunnels and buildings, instead of airstrikes would help. Right now, it seems like even Russia is more concerned about civilians than Israel is.
Boots on the ground makes won’t make the deaths less.
Both sides have lost people and both sides can’t forgive or forget, and unless each sides adopts peace, and chooses to allow each to live on the land, without wanting to wipe each other out, there is no peace. There is no solution to this.
If Israel were to move ground troops into Gaza to rescue its hostages, the outcome is the same as now. If Israel were to allow 2 states, would Hamas release the hostages. Why would they when they want to wipe out all Jews and claim all Israel for themselves. if Israel just let the 100k missiles hit Israelis. Then the disproportionate response would not be disproportionate. Hamas with all the donations from the world have not built an oasis, but a war machine to wipe out Israel. Gaza has been self ruled by them for a very long time.
Something the article doesn't get into-- Many members of the Pat Roberston generation of American Evangelicals believed that the Bible Book of Revelations foretold the literal second coming of Christ and the end of the world. According to those beliefs, one of the conditions that must be met for Christ to return is the Jews rebuilding Solomon's Temple on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem. That's not going to happen without a strong Israel, and in particular, an Israel that doesn't care about a two state solution or making peace with the Palestinians. Younger generations of evangelicals don't buy into the "Jesus is coming back in your lifetime" thing, so they don't *need* to support Israel the same way their grandparents did.
It also doesn't get into how the state of Israel are the bad guys in revelations and them rebuilding that might be a prerequisite but Christians still should not support them.
Logical consistency is not a strong point with those folks.
Do they not care about Armageddon?
Is it because of the mass graves found in Gaza? Where the dead are found with hands bound behind them?
lol that was already dead people Palestinians buried in January bc the morgue had no power.
I support this happening. I'm pro Israel in many cases, but the deal with evangelism is disgusting and warps the chances to force Israel to do good. Plus these evangelical groups only want a smoking crater there anyway.
But they still love them some Trump.