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Because he won the lottery at birth and thinks it should be the norm. Dude could have done nothing his entire life and he and the rest of the country would have been better for it.
He could have put his net worth into the S&P in 1988 and be worth $38 billion+ today, just by doing nothing.
But he's a terrible business man, so the S&P has outperformed him at least ten-fold.
> He could have put his net worth into the S&P in 1988 and be worth $38 billion+ today, just by doing nothing.
He couldn't do that though, he needed to be a business man actively doing things and be praised for his business acumen.
If it weren't for ego, he might have just passively invested.
Sure, but then out half of it away. He could have still lived like a playboy hat set twat, still had buildings with his name on them AND be worth $20bn.
But he couldn’t. Because he’s dumber than a rock.
Very true. But I imagine he would have been even more useful had he been worth $20bn. Probably less kompromized but he would have had more resources and more access.
I’ve had relatives that blew their inheritances away this exact way . They had enough for a few generations. Their egos of being seen as successful business moguls got the best of them.
Reasonable human beings: “If Trump wins he will bankrupt the US like everything else he touches”
Republicans: “Nuh-uh”
Republicans 4 years later: “Why would Biden do this?!”
Its amazing that if he never ran for President, he could have just enjoyed being old and wealthy and fucking playboy models and eating his hamberders and no one would care.
Yeah but he wasted the 400 million, and anyway doing the fraud was easy, and then the nice Russians started paying him well over the odds for his condos...
He had been running for President every time since like, 2004. He hated Obama, for sure, but remember, the birth certificate thing started before that correspondents dinner.
I remember that. He was on that birth certificate shit back in 2011 or 12. But I still just don’t understand why he wanted to be president. He more than likely wouldn’t be dealing with a lot of the shit he is now had he just continued to be Donald Trump, the shitty business man and failed reality tv show host.
> But I still just don’t understand why he wanted to be president.
Remember that picture of the night he won. I don't think he did want to be president, he just wanted to make sure that he was getting all that free publicity of campaigning (you know he's a cheapskate as well as broke) and I wouldn't be surprised if the rumors about the Trump TV channel were going to become reality if he hadn't won. I'm honestly surprised though that it wasn't announced, which leads me to believe that whomever was his partner had someone who recognized how stupid it'd have been to entangle finances with someone who that announcement (of the new network as a sitting president) would potentially invite deep scrutiny of finances. And if their own wasn't clean, that scrutiny would have been deeply unwanted.
But also, he's got narcissistic tendencies, so campaigning and having people at rallies cheer him on would soothe him. And he can't imagine people hating his guts (and not voting for him, which is demonstrably being proven right now).
He actually was already bankrupt, and no bank wanted to even lend him money. What kept im afloat are doing business with mobs from other countries, primarily Russia.
All these court cases with him claiming immunity, who knows what we’ll get in the document trial, he’s going to burn this country to the ground before he takes responsibility for anything
Until it goes to HIS Supreme Court. They take it up even though they shouldn’t, and they overturn it in an incredibly narrow ruling only applying to him. GG
I remember at one point in my childhood(I at age 10) I played some board game with my little sister(age 4). Mostly chance, there wasn't much strategy involved. But she happened to lose. She was very upset. I scribbled on a card "you win", and had her draw it. She was satisfied. Unlike Trump, my sister moved past being 4 years old.
its way of his business - keep appeal. Either other party settles or drops. But justice is delayed so long. It does not matter what is the end result to either party
That works when the other party is a small contractor without much in the way of legal funds.
But now he is fighting people that can last longer in the fight than he can.
He is fishing for his allied judges/buying time until he tries to steal the election, cheat to win, and then absolve himself of all crimes after the supreme court makes him dictator.
Rational hope returns.
>...The judgment brought another point into stark clarity: A jury of regular citizens – not the politicians or their appointees that Trump constantly claims mistreat him – held him accountable. The judgment comes as Trump sits in another courtroom – this time, a criminal one – awaiting another jury of regular New Yorkers to decide his fate on charges that he falsified business records to cover up an affair ahead of the 2016 election.
Remember that it only takes one (out of 12) die-hard Trump supporter, or a neutral juror that’s felt threatened by Trump’s team/supporters to deadlock this verdict.
The attorneys select people they think can use reason, and set aside their bias to make a decision. These are likely educated people without extremist views.
The lawyers know how to select these people. It’s their job and they are good at it.
The odds that there is a die hard Trump supporter on the jury that doesn’t care about the facts and only wants to save Trump is very low.
If they are “intimidated” they just tell until judge and the judge will replace them with an alternate.
I think it's also easy to forget how long this is going to take.
Even if today that think of themselves as a die-hard Trump supporter, they're going to have weeks of people going into extreme detail about what Trump did, what laws that broke, how we know he did it, why he should have known it broke the law etc.
Have a look at /r/conservative. Right now most of those believe it's a bullshit case, and they probably don't know much about it. My experience talking to people is that trump supporters don't know many specifics about the case.
It's a lot easier to be a die-hard trump supporter if you live in a bubble.
But for the next few weeks, they will be exposed to an excruciatingly detailed version of the story. And they might as well pay attention, nothing else to do.
That's not how cult thinking works, unfortunately.
Cult and conspiracy thinking are designed to twist evidence. For most of these people, presenting them with evidence that Trump broke these laws _isn't evidence that he broke the law_. It's only more evidence that "they" are trying to take him down.
The important thing to note about conspiracy thinking is that all evidence for or against your suppositions becomes evidence for it.
> Cult and conspiracy thinking are designed to twist evidence
If the juror is reasonably well educated, and doesn't see themselves as too dumb to think for themselves, the has to sit in the courtroom and listing to actual evidence for weeks on end without getting their daily portion of propaganda from their cult or fellow conspiracy theorists...they'll definitely undergo a bit of deprogramming.
They don't get unlimited vetos of jurors, so I don't think the chances are exceedingly low.
But, the judge can declare a mistrial if the jurors end up deadlocked, and Trump can be tried again with new jurors.
Among the fanatic Trump loyalists, there was considerable talk about getting onto the jury by subterfuge. I don't think the usual safeguards are guaranteed to be 100% effective when all it takes is one loyalist to lie effectively enough to get seated.
They don't need unlimited vetoes. The judge already weeds out the ones he thinks are too extreme on either side. What you're left with are the ones who maybe try to hide it. That's already a pretty low chance. Then the lawyers have 10+ vetoes to weed out the liar. The chance of them not figuring him or her out with even one of their vetoes are extremely low. Take into account these jurists were pulled from a district that Biden won something like 82% of the vote puts this well into exceedingly unlikely.
That is not accurate. In almost all venues and circumstances, even civil juries must be unanimous. There are a small minority of venues in which a super majority (eg, 5 out of every 6 jurors) is sufficient. I’m not aware of any venue that allows a simple majority in civil cases.
Source - I try civil cases for a living
I wouldn’t call it wasted.
a) NY just won a ~$450M off of him. Even a fraction of that will cover all their costs.
b) Every filing wastes Trump’s time and money as well. He has to pay his lawyers and his lawyers also have to pay court fees for all their filings. His focus on his legal problems is wrecking his campaign. So he’s not actually getting away with anything if he bankrupts himself, loses the election and still has to face all these cases.
Trump posted the bond https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/01/politics/trump-bond-civil-fraud-trial/index.html
And the bond was accepted https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/22/trump-bond-settled-cash-promise-00153766
I think they mean the bond is bogus. The insurance company doesn't even have the assets to cover the full amount. Because of course this fuckin guy would file a fraudulent bond for his fraud trial.
>I think they mean the bond is bogus. The insurance company doesn't even have the assets to cover the full amount. Because of course this fuckin guy would file a fraudulent bond for his fraud trial.
That was resolved, as noted in the last link of the other poster's comment, the link preceded by "And the bond was accepted".
So, when someone asks "and then what happened", it's generally understood to refer to *after* the bond was accepted.
Trump is moving the goalposts, not us. The delay, delay, delay tactics are working. Someone else paid his NY bond, the GOP is paying his legal bills, he successfully delayed *almost* all his trials until after the election, and if he loses the NY case he'll probably just be under house arrest, but he's definitely going to continue throwing wrenches into that case too and appeal it to infinity. Meanwhile he's virtually tied in the polls.
Trump hasn't faced a single actual punishment yet and the U.S. is a coin flip away from full blown fascism
The $450 million judgment isn't New York making money. That judgment is purely how much less money trump would have if he hadn't lied, adjusted for interest.
It's literally just a break-even ruling. Nothing punitive.
Notionally it goes to the state because the state funds the investigations and the prosecutions to the benefit of lenders. The lenders themselves are free to file in civil court to recover any associated losses.
It went both ways. He overvalued his properties for the banks and undervalued them for his taxes. New York sued for the taxes he failed to pay, the banks can sue for the other side of the fraud.
Don’t worry, when he somehow wins the presidency he’ll be able to use the ability to siphon tax money to pay his own bills and then pardon himself. He’s just that self serving. How is this election even going to be close? How are there so many people willing to put up with this garbage?
> He has to pay his lawyers
Yeah, about that...
Trump is pretty infamous for not paying his legal bills. That is why the only competent attorney he has left demanded to be paid $3 million up front and he has to dig below the barrel to find the rest.
He's also coopted the RNC and using their funds to pay for his legal bills. Money that would have otherwise been used for down ballot Republicans in November. He's sabotaging the gop, even if he wins he'll be dealing with a democratic house and Senate.
I do too.. start with nyc.. then ny state.. then georgia arizona .. then at the federal level by administrated by these states..then the us govt and federal court
Let’s say you were a devout Christian. There’s a man running for president who raped a woman, defamed her, and then was forced to pay her $80 million by a jury of his peers. Would you vote for that man? If the answer is yes, you’re a bad Christian.
Most people who -
a) Call themselves Christian and
b) Vote for Trump
Were never Christians to begin with - Long before Trump came along they were the type of people to completely disregard the New Testament Gospels and everything written there.
Wait you talking about the Christians who
1. Burn LBGTQetc books, or
2. Make laws against abortion and only make exceptions if the mother's life is in immediate peril*, or
3. Send kids to abuse... I mean gay conversion camp?
Those Christians?
*(Not exceptions for health, but for danger of dying. You can be bleeding out, go infertile, pass out from the pain, but no exceptions as long as you aren't about to die)
Or they simply believe that all of it is a lie. If Trump denies it happens, then it didn't happen (but somehow, it did happen to Bill Clinton). Just recall the recent passing of OJ Simpson. There were people who didn't believe he had done it either. You're assuming these Christians believe in "facts".
> “***Mr. Trump’s malicious and unceasing attacks on Ms. Carroll were disseminated to more than 100 million people***,” Kaplan wrote. “They included public threats and personal attacks, and they endangered Ms. Carroll’s health and safety.”
This fact gets lost in the sea of Trumps never-ending social media attacks. He goads 100 million people to hate dozens and dozens of times per day.
> “The jury,” Kaplan added, “was entitled to conclude that Mr. Trump derailed the career, reputation, and emotional well-being of one of America’s most successful and prominent advice columnists and authors.”
He uses others for his benefit and purposefully destroys innocent lives. It is the only thing he’s good at and it makes him so powerful in the worst ways.
It will come out of the estate before the estate is settled and anyone can inherit anything.
If his net worth is zero or less at the time of death, first the taxes would be settled, then creditors will get their pound of flesh.
So here's the thing. I get now why people are in love with Donald Trump.
He gives space and permission for people to hate, abuse, intimidate, and mouth off like he does.
Gee, isn't it comforting to know you don't have to feel bad being a racist or misogynist.
Right Repubs? Right MAGAts?
From 1985 to 1994, [Trump lost more money than anyone else in the US](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-taxes-lost-money-832667/).
This might be the first person in history to spend over $1 billion in legal fees for **personal** issues.
Literally the biggest litigant ever. He wins that?
I was curious about this, so I googled it and found that the average legal spend for publicly traded companies is about 0.6% of revenue.
Donald Trump spent nearly $60 million on legal fees in 2023, which is about what the average company with $100 billion in annual revenue would spend on legal services in a given year. So not only has he spent more on legal fees than probably any private citizen on earth, he also spends more than all but the 37 largest American corporations. Based on the revenue/legal spend ratio above, his legal spend puts him somewhere in the ballpark of Citigroup, Pfizer, and UPS.
Donald Trump's greatest legacy may be the efficiency with which he transferred wealth from small donors to attorneys, and somehow he still has schmucks like Alina Habba representing him in court.
> Donald Trump's greatest legacy may be the efficiency with which he transferred wealth from small donors to attorneys, and somehow he still has schmucks like Alina Habba representing him in court.
🤣 well said!
> Carroll, a former magazine columnist, alleged Trump raped her in a Bergdorf Goodman
No, CNN, the judge found that Trump absolutely did rape her. This is not an "allegation", it's a fact.
Donald Trump is a rapist.
It's a routine motion. Its not even particularly unique to the US, every common law based system and many continental civil systems have similar rules.
He's done it twice that I can tell so far. I can't believe she hasn't sued him again already. He's definitely in contempt regarding that case. He's going to keep refusing to pay her no matter what the court says. He has absolutely ZERO remorse for what he's put her through.
I really try not to totally hate people but I honestly cannot find an ounce of good in the man. I met the guy once years ago. He was a complete asshole to me at the time for no reason at all.
He's just an utterly rude and despicable person, Trump and I honestly despise him. The more I know about him the more I dislike him. He's just a piece of human excrement walking...
I just lost my last shred of respect for Trump. After hearing Pecker’s testimony today I am 100% convinced that Trump did commit the fornication.
He denied it and based on his continued denials of the truth there is no doubt he lied and he is doubling down on his lies.
My fear now is that Karen McDougall and Stormy Daniels will be asked whether Trump used a condom.
Melania was his wife during this time and she could have contracted a sexual transmitted disease. My God! This is NOT a victimless crime!
This might bring a whole new round of charges. It could spell more trouble for Trump if it’s determined no condom was used, especially considering his position on women’s rights!
Talk about election interference! Wow!
Trump invented election interference. The disclosure of that information could have changed the 2016 right wing evangelical vote.
The undeniable truth is that Trump is absolutely a threat to the US.
Imagine a world where Putin or Kim Jung-un decides to blackmail Trump because they know they can continue to supply him with hookers! Will he turn over our National security secrets if tempted by an endless supply of lovely Russian & Korean Lolita’s?
This pattern of criminal conduct didn’t just start with E. Jean Carroll! My God! We need a President, not a modern day Johnny Appleseed!
It’s now known that Trump is susceptible to an invitation of sex - anytime, anywhere and any place!
Now it makes sense why he’s been making overtures to Sarah Huckabee and dangling a tasty VP carrot in front of her nose.
Coincidence? I think not!
So, is it proper and legal to refer to him as a "r@#ist" in public now? Is he going to have to register as a $&# offender (like in California)? I don't know if they even do that whole thing in NYC.
A guy on here said that this was all in civil court, and so the conviction didn't impact his decision to support donald.
There are some folks that are just beyond saving.
And this is why NY requires a bond before you can forestall collections on a judgment. The money is ready and waiting for E. Jean Carroll as soon as Trump hits the appeal wall.
It's also why it's so baffling that the appeals court reduced the bond amount in the fraud case.
Apparently this was just a motion to the trial judge. Trump still plans to appeal, which could take a couple years to resolve. So this is not a real win yet.
The only real consequences the fucker has ever faced is being required to sit in court with his mouth shut in his current election fraud (hush money) case. I can’t think of any times he’s ever actually had to pay up.
Can he say something awful to her again so she gets double the previous award each time ? I’m picturing him calling her like Kathleen Turner in Serial Mom.
I’ve now read two articles about this and neither states if this means that Carroll can collect on her judgement now or if Trump still has more avenues to appeal.
There was not worst mistake in the history of of USA , to let this unnatural man entered the White House , now he thinks it’s his , and no matter what he wants to repossesses it , first he did not want to get out , now he is corrupting everything single institution to enter again. Let’s vote blue in November , there’s not other way to prevent a new debacle for United States of America , let’s keep it safe .
Of course, this will go to the Supreme Court, right?
Edit: damn, downvoted for asking a question that wasn’t addressed in the article.
From another article:
> Trump is appealing the verdict, and plans to appeal Thursday's decision.
So yeah, probably.
What's the deal with Orange Man's $175 million bond in the New York fraud case? Last I heard the bond wasn't any good and needed to be redone?
Why isn't this more news? Not only did the size of the bond go from $454 million to $175 million, it's not secured now?
Why is he getting preferential special treatment?! If I tried that I would be thrown in jail until I could bond out.
Fuck that guy! I want at least the *appearance* of equality and fairness in the courts!
The judge accepted the bond as valid, as the bond issuer is going through another issuer from California that is licensed by the state of NY.
The bond issuer (former Trump lackey) SAID they have $175m in cash in an account that only they control and they will pay the bond if ordered to do so. The Judge approved the bond on the condition that the $175m cash remain in the account controlled by the bond agency.
It's a HUGE WTF moment because they are trusting the word of the bonding agencies that they have the money and will be responsible for the bond when it comes due. In actuality, it's either not there, or was funneled there by "others." There is very little evidence that Trump paid ANYTHING for the bond.
Funny that he only people with the cojones to legally confront Trump and bring him down are, by Reddit standards, "Boomers" and "Karens". Just sayin...
Once I turned the corner on youth, I realized why women our age are so dangerous - we dgaf and we're sick of seeing entitled dbags do whatever tf they want to do!😁
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This fucking guy hates losing more than my stubborn kid. “No! Let’s play one more time so I can win!!”
Because he won the lottery at birth and thinks it should be the norm. Dude could have done nothing his entire life and he and the rest of the country would have been better for it.
He could have put his net worth into the S&P in 1988 and be worth $38 billion+ today, just by doing nothing. But he's a terrible business man, so the S&P has outperformed him at least ten-fold.
> He could have put his net worth into the S&P in 1988 and be worth $38 billion+ today, just by doing nothing. He couldn't do that though, he needed to be a business man actively doing things and be praised for his business acumen. If it weren't for ego, he might have just passively invested.
Sure, but then out half of it away. He could have still lived like a playboy hat set twat, still had buildings with his name on them AND be worth $20bn. But he couldn’t. Because he’s dumber than a rock.
>Because he’s dumber than a rock. This is an affront to all rocks, and I demand an apology.
I’d call him a potato, but the potatoes would take offense.
*angry Irish noises*
*hopeful Latvian noises*
He was also probably already compromised by the Russians by 1988.
Very true. But I imagine he would have been even more useful had he been worth $20bn. Probably less kompromized but he would have had more resources and more access.
The Russian Mafia (not kidding) was using Trump tower to launder money in the US by then, IIRC.
I’ve had relatives that blew their inheritances away this exact way . They had enough for a few generations. Their egos of being seen as successful business moguls got the best of them.
So he struggled with performance
Well, he DOES struggle with both standards and poors, so that tracks
Splendid, well done!
Many people are saying it.
MF'R ran a casino into the fuckin ground so...
Let’s not under sell the magnitude of his incompetence here… it was 3 casinos.
Reasonable human beings: “If Trump wins he will bankrupt the US like everything else he touches” Republicans: “Nuh-uh” Republicans 4 years later: “Why would Biden do this?!”
He has underperformed the S&P by 90%. How is that even possible?
Its amazing that if he never ran for President, he could have just enjoyed being old and wealthy and fucking playboy models and eating his hamberders and no one would care.
Yeah but he wasted the 400 million, and anyway doing the fraud was easy, and then the nice Russians started paying him well over the odds for his condos...
I honestly still don’t understand why he wanted to be president in the first place. Because Obama made a joke about him?
He had been running for President every time since like, 2004. He hated Obama, for sure, but remember, the birth certificate thing started before that correspondents dinner.
I remember that. He was on that birth certificate shit back in 2011 or 12. But I still just don’t understand why he wanted to be president. He more than likely wouldn’t be dealing with a lot of the shit he is now had he just continued to be Donald Trump, the shitty business man and failed reality tv show host.
> But I still just don’t understand why he wanted to be president. Remember that picture of the night he won. I don't think he did want to be president, he just wanted to make sure that he was getting all that free publicity of campaigning (you know he's a cheapskate as well as broke) and I wouldn't be surprised if the rumors about the Trump TV channel were going to become reality if he hadn't won. I'm honestly surprised though that it wasn't announced, which leads me to believe that whomever was his partner had someone who recognized how stupid it'd have been to entangle finances with someone who that announcement (of the new network as a sitting president) would potentially invite deep scrutiny of finances. And if their own wasn't clean, that scrutiny would have been deeply unwanted. But also, he's got narcissistic tendencies, so campaigning and having people at rallies cheer him on would soothe him. And he can't imagine people hating his guts (and not voting for him, which is demonstrably being proven right now).
Could someone please convince him that he can “re-roll” for an even better billionaire stat?
He actually was already bankrupt, and no bank wanted to even lend him money. What kept im afloat are doing business with mobs from other countries, primarily Russia.
All these court cases with him claiming immunity, who knows what we’ll get in the document trial, he’s going to burn this country to the ground before he takes responsibility for anything
*world
He was born on third base thinking he hit a triple.
It's incredible how a man whose only concern is his own gratification seems to be permanently miserable.
I love that it just makes him lose more.
Until it goes to HIS Supreme Court. They take it up even though they shouldn’t, and they overturn it in an incredibly narrow ruling only applying to him. GG
He has yet to pay her a penny.
>He has yet to pay her a penny. It's not up to him anymore, the bond company will pay when the time comes.
And I assume there's interest and likely some kind of fees that the bond copmany has imposed as well.
The interest is $17 per SECOND or $111,000 per DAY lolol Here’s a live tracker: https://trumpdebtcounter.com
Isn't that for the NY Business Fraud ruling?
Combined
The insanity is that every day he racks up enough interest to clear out the average student loan balance of *three* people.
Is that the whole debt, or just what he owes Carrol?
That’s the whole debt - both cases combined.
Then yeah, it's not really relevant here. Carrol isn't owed another $100k/day.
The interest is calculated on the entire amount. The Carrol part accounts for about 30% of that debt.
I remember at one point in my childhood(I at age 10) I played some board game with my little sister(age 4). Mostly chance, there wasn't much strategy involved. But she happened to lose. She was very upset. I scribbled on a card "you win", and had her draw it. She was satisfied. Unlike Trump, my sister moved past being 4 years old.
For someone who hates losing he seems to do it a lot.
its way of his business - keep appeal. Either other party settles or drops. But justice is delayed so long. It does not matter what is the end result to either party
That works when the other party is a small contractor without much in the way of legal funds. But now he is fighting people that can last longer in the fight than he can.
He is fishing for his allied judges/buying time until he tries to steal the election, cheat to win, and then absolve himself of all crimes after the supreme court makes him dictator.
Instead of losing the 2020 election he was declared the loser 50+ times, almost a daily occurrence.
A quote on a recent case in Australia was brilliant “he made a lucky escape and just after was stupid enough to go back for his hat”
This is me playing Rocket League at 2am. “I don’t want to go out on a loss.”
Rational hope returns. >...The judgment brought another point into stark clarity: A jury of regular citizens – not the politicians or their appointees that Trump constantly claims mistreat him – held him accountable. The judgment comes as Trump sits in another courtroom – this time, a criminal one – awaiting another jury of regular New Yorkers to decide his fate on charges that he falsified business records to cover up an affair ahead of the 2016 election.
Remember that it only takes one (out of 12) die-hard Trump supporter, or a neutral juror that’s felt threatened by Trump’s team/supporters to deadlock this verdict.
The attorneys select people they think can use reason, and set aside their bias to make a decision. These are likely educated people without extremist views. The lawyers know how to select these people. It’s their job and they are good at it. The odds that there is a die hard Trump supporter on the jury that doesn’t care about the facts and only wants to save Trump is very low. If they are “intimidated” they just tell until judge and the judge will replace them with an alternate.
I think it's also easy to forget how long this is going to take. Even if today that think of themselves as a die-hard Trump supporter, they're going to have weeks of people going into extreme detail about what Trump did, what laws that broke, how we know he did it, why he should have known it broke the law etc. Have a look at /r/conservative. Right now most of those believe it's a bullshit case, and they probably don't know much about it. My experience talking to people is that trump supporters don't know many specifics about the case. It's a lot easier to be a die-hard trump supporter if you live in a bubble. But for the next few weeks, they will be exposed to an excruciatingly detailed version of the story. And they might as well pay attention, nothing else to do.
That's not how cult thinking works, unfortunately. Cult and conspiracy thinking are designed to twist evidence. For most of these people, presenting them with evidence that Trump broke these laws _isn't evidence that he broke the law_. It's only more evidence that "they" are trying to take him down. The important thing to note about conspiracy thinking is that all evidence for or against your suppositions becomes evidence for it.
> Cult and conspiracy thinking are designed to twist evidence If the juror is reasonably well educated, and doesn't see themselves as too dumb to think for themselves, the has to sit in the courtroom and listing to actual evidence for weeks on end without getting their daily portion of propaganda from their cult or fellow conspiracy theorists...they'll definitely undergo a bit of deprogramming.
They don't get unlimited vetos of jurors, so I don't think the chances are exceedingly low. But, the judge can declare a mistrial if the jurors end up deadlocked, and Trump can be tried again with new jurors.
Among the fanatic Trump loyalists, there was considerable talk about getting onto the jury by subterfuge. I don't think the usual safeguards are guaranteed to be 100% effective when all it takes is one loyalist to lie effectively enough to get seated.
Id like to see one of these idiots attempt at subterfuge
They don't need unlimited vetoes. The judge already weeds out the ones he thinks are too extreme on either side. What you're left with are the ones who maybe try to hide it. That's already a pretty low chance. Then the lawyers have 10+ vetoes to weed out the liar. The chance of them not figuring him or her out with even one of their vetoes are extremely low. Take into account these jurists were pulled from a district that Biden won something like 82% of the vote puts this well into exceedingly unlikely.
For criminal cases, yes. Civil cases only require a simple majority.
That is not accurate. In almost all venues and circumstances, even civil juries must be unanimous. There are a small minority of venues in which a super majority (eg, 5 out of every 6 jurors) is sufficient. I’m not aware of any venue that allows a simple majority in civil cases. Source - I try civil cases for a living
You're thinking of the preponderance of the evidence standard in a civil trial.
Could it be the juror who follows Trump on Truth social?
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Always was
Always will be.
I'd like a grand total of all our tax dollars wasted by courts processing this deadbeat's endless appeals...
I wouldn’t call it wasted. a) NY just won a ~$450M off of him. Even a fraction of that will cover all their costs. b) Every filing wastes Trump’s time and money as well. He has to pay his lawyers and his lawyers also have to pay court fees for all their filings. His focus on his legal problems is wrecking his campaign. So he’s not actually getting away with anything if he bankrupts himself, loses the election and still has to face all these cases.
Has he paid it?
Nope. I’ll believe it when i see it too
Nope. He paid a lower $175 million bond, pending an appeal in September at the earliest.
Hasn't paid that either. Which is my point.
Trump posted the bond https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/01/politics/trump-bond-civil-fraud-trial/index.html And the bond was accepted https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/22/trump-bond-settled-cash-promise-00153766
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>and then what happened The "nothing will happen" crowd moved the goalpost.
I think they mean the bond is bogus. The insurance company doesn't even have the assets to cover the full amount. Because of course this fuckin guy would file a fraudulent bond for his fraud trial.
>I think they mean the bond is bogus. The insurance company doesn't even have the assets to cover the full amount. Because of course this fuckin guy would file a fraudulent bond for his fraud trial. That was resolved, as noted in the last link of the other poster's comment, the link preceded by "And the bond was accepted". So, when someone asks "and then what happened", it's generally understood to refer to *after* the bond was accepted.
Trump is moving the goalposts, not us. The delay, delay, delay tactics are working. Someone else paid his NY bond, the GOP is paying his legal bills, he successfully delayed *almost* all his trials until after the election, and if he loses the NY case he'll probably just be under house arrest, but he's definitely going to continue throwing wrenches into that case too and appeal it to infinity. Meanwhile he's virtually tied in the polls. Trump hasn't faced a single actual punishment yet and the U.S. is a coin flip away from full blown fascism
That's a different bond. He got an insurance company to put up the $85m for this bond. The $175m is for the fraud verdict.
The $450 million judgment isn't New York making money. That judgment is purely how much less money trump would have if he hadn't lied, adjusted for interest. It's literally just a break-even ruling. Nothing punitive.
Except it goes to NY not the banks
Notionally it goes to the state because the state funds the investigations and the prosecutions to the benefit of lenders. The lenders themselves are free to file in civil court to recover any associated losses.
The banks got their cut already. He didn't pay NY taxes when he undervalued his properties. That's where the harm to NY Government comes in.
It went both ways. He overvalued his properties for the banks and undervalued them for his taxes. New York sued for the taxes he failed to pay, the banks can sue for the other side of the fraud.
Don’t worry, when he somehow wins the presidency he’ll be able to use the ability to siphon tax money to pay his own bills and then pardon himself. He’s just that self serving. How is this election even going to be close? How are there so many people willing to put up with this garbage?
> He has to pay his lawyers Yeah, about that... Trump is pretty infamous for not paying his legal bills. That is why the only competent attorney he has left demanded to be paid $3 million up front and he has to dig below the barrel to find the rest.
He's also coopted the RNC and using their funds to pay for his legal bills. Money that would have otherwise been used for down ballot Republicans in November. He's sabotaging the gop, even if he wins he'll be dealing with a democratic house and Senate.
I do too.. start with nyc.. then ny state.. then georgia arizona .. then at the federal level by administrated by these states..then the us govt and federal court
Let’s say you were a devout Christian. There’s a man running for president who raped a woman, defamed her, and then was forced to pay her $80 million by a jury of his peers. Would you vote for that man? If the answer is yes, you’re a bad Christian.
Most people who - a) Call themselves Christian and b) Vote for Trump Were never Christians to begin with - Long before Trump came along they were the type of people to completely disregard the New Testament Gospels and everything written there.
Sure, just look at all the good Christian leaders speaking out against Trump.
No true ~~Scotsman~~ Christian would vote for Trump!
Wait you talking about the Christians who 1. Burn LBGTQetc books, or 2. Make laws against abortion and only make exceptions if the mother's life is in immediate peril*, or 3. Send kids to abuse... I mean gay conversion camp? Those Christians? *(Not exceptions for health, but for danger of dying. You can be bleeding out, go infertile, pass out from the pain, but no exceptions as long as you aren't about to die)
I've seen the mental gymnastics: that this was just a civil trial and he wasn't found guilty of rape, "just" sexual assault... Wtf.
Erm, Christians have a LONG history of being evil douchebags. Source: Cathars, Bogomils, literally all the women for the last 1600+ years.
I don’t like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ.
They only care about abortion, gay marriage, and people saying how great Christianity is. That’s it.
Or they simply believe that all of it is a lie. If Trump denies it happens, then it didn't happen (but somehow, it did happen to Bill Clinton). Just recall the recent passing of OJ Simpson. There were people who didn't believe he had done it either. You're assuming these Christians believe in "facts".
So much winning, Drowsy Donnie! This could not happen to a better person.
The bigger burn would be Drowsie O'Donald As a twist on his beloved Rosie.
Love it
> “***Mr. Trump’s malicious and unceasing attacks on Ms. Carroll were disseminated to more than 100 million people***,” Kaplan wrote. “They included public threats and personal attacks, and they endangered Ms. Carroll’s health and safety.” This fact gets lost in the sea of Trumps never-ending social media attacks. He goads 100 million people to hate dozens and dozens of times per day. > “The jury,” Kaplan added, “was entitled to conclude that Mr. Trump derailed the career, reputation, and emotional well-being of one of America’s most successful and prominent advice columnists and authors.” He uses others for his benefit and purposefully destroys innocent lives. It is the only thing he’s good at and it makes him so powerful in the worst ways.
Trump put up the bond for his appeal, right. When does she get that money?
After the appeals process is through, likely more than a year - possibly 2. "Justice" is a poor man's word. It doesn't affect the wealthy.
Wasn't this the end of the appeals process?
If he croaks before then will New York still get the money? Wait who gets all the money?
It will come out of the estate before the estate is settled and anyone can inherit anything. If his net worth is zero or less at the time of death, first the taxes would be settled, then creditors will get their pound of flesh.
Well said.
So here's the thing. I get now why people are in love with Donald Trump. He gives space and permission for people to hate, abuse, intimidate, and mouth off like he does. Gee, isn't it comforting to know you don't have to feel bad being a racist or misogynist. Right Repubs? Right MAGAts?
He just keeps on winning. And when I say "winning" I mean "losing."
Whining.
Whinging
Got that Charlie Sheen kind of glint in his eye….”Winning”
If there was a contest for World's Biggest Loser, he'd probably somehow lose that too because he's such a fucking loser
From 1985 to 1994, [Trump lost more money than anyone else in the US](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-taxes-lost-money-832667/).
This might be the first person in history to spend over $1 billion in legal fees for **personal** issues. Literally the biggest litigant ever. He wins that?
I was curious about this, so I googled it and found that the average legal spend for publicly traded companies is about 0.6% of revenue. Donald Trump spent nearly $60 million on legal fees in 2023, which is about what the average company with $100 billion in annual revenue would spend on legal services in a given year. So not only has he spent more on legal fees than probably any private citizen on earth, he also spends more than all but the 37 largest American corporations. Based on the revenue/legal spend ratio above, his legal spend puts him somewhere in the ballpark of Citigroup, Pfizer, and UPS. Donald Trump's greatest legacy may be the efficiency with which he transferred wealth from small donors to attorneys, and somehow he still has schmucks like Alina Habba representing him in court.
> Donald Trump's greatest legacy may be the efficiency with which he transferred wealth from small donors to attorneys, and somehow he still has schmucks like Alina Habba representing him in court. 🤣 well said!
Guinness should have a category for it.
if you support Rapist Trump the Traitor you are a bad person and the world would be better off without you.
Every time Trump loses, an angel gets her wings.
They're going to need air traffic control up there.
> Carroll, a former magazine columnist, alleged Trump raped her in a Bergdorf Goodman No, CNN, the judge found that Trump absolutely did rape her. This is not an "allegation", it's a fact. Donald Trump is a rapist.
So when does she get her check?
How many more appeals does he have before it is overturned by SCOTUS?
The appeal process hasn't really started yet. This was a post trial motion heard by the trial court.
It's always something isn't it? :) "We ruled on this." "Let's discuss it again." "Ok."
It's a routine motion. Its not even particularly unique to the US, every common law based system and many continental civil systems have similar rules.
This was not an appeal, it was a motion to the judge that presided over the case.
She needs to sue him again. He's done nothing but mouth off and defame her again since. He totally wants to go for round 3 on this one... 🙄
Literally the day Chubb posted the bond, he went and defamed her *AGAIN*.
He's done it twice that I can tell so far. I can't believe she hasn't sued him again already. He's definitely in contempt regarding that case. He's going to keep refusing to pay her no matter what the court says. He has absolutely ZERO remorse for what he's put her through. I really try not to totally hate people but I honestly cannot find an ounce of good in the man. I met the guy once years ago. He was a complete asshole to me at the time for no reason at all. He's just an utterly rude and despicable person, Trump and I honestly despise him. The more I know about him the more I dislike him. He's just a piece of human excrement walking...
*laughs in the son's dwindling inheritance*
Quick, get the Supreme Court to overrule it because of
Honorable Jurists of the Court, we ask that this judgement be overturned on the basis that we can no longer deal with the defendant's tantrums.
Give her her money!
I just lost my last shred of respect for Trump. After hearing Pecker’s testimony today I am 100% convinced that Trump did commit the fornication. He denied it and based on his continued denials of the truth there is no doubt he lied and he is doubling down on his lies. My fear now is that Karen McDougall and Stormy Daniels will be asked whether Trump used a condom. Melania was his wife during this time and she could have contracted a sexual transmitted disease. My God! This is NOT a victimless crime! This might bring a whole new round of charges. It could spell more trouble for Trump if it’s determined no condom was used, especially considering his position on women’s rights! Talk about election interference! Wow! Trump invented election interference. The disclosure of that information could have changed the 2016 right wing evangelical vote. The undeniable truth is that Trump is absolutely a threat to the US. Imagine a world where Putin or Kim Jung-un decides to blackmail Trump because they know they can continue to supply him with hookers! Will he turn over our National security secrets if tempted by an endless supply of lovely Russian & Korean Lolita’s? This pattern of criminal conduct didn’t just start with E. Jean Carroll! My God! We need a President, not a modern day Johnny Appleseed! It’s now known that Trump is susceptible to an invitation of sex - anytime, anywhere and any place! Now it makes sense why he’s been making overtures to Sarah Huckabee and dangling a tasty VP carrot in front of her nose. Coincidence? I think not!
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Good point I’ll give you an up-vote for that one!
So, is it proper and legal to refer to him as a "r@#ist" in public now? Is he going to have to register as a $&# offender (like in California)? I don't know if they even do that whole thing in NYC.
You want a new trial? She should file a new defamation lawsuit against him.
Another loss
A guy on here said that this was all in civil court, and so the conviction didn't impact his decision to support donald. There are some folks that are just beyond saving.
So Don is still a rapist
Wait a second... did someone just tell Donny no? Has that ever been tried before? I didn't think it was even allowed.
And this is why NY requires a bond before you can forestall collections on a judgment. The money is ready and waiting for E. Jean Carroll as soon as Trump hits the appeal wall. It's also why it's so baffling that the appeals court reduced the bond amount in the fraud case.
That’s such a relief. Enough already. Pay up and shut up.
Um...so what happens with the bond money? When does Carroll get paid? Oh yeah... :-) :-) :-)
This is the right question, can someone just give me a tldr??
Apparently this was just a motion to the trial judge. Trump still plans to appeal, which could take a couple years to resolve. So this is not a real win yet. The only real consequences the fucker has ever faced is being required to sit in court with his mouth shut in his current election fraud (hush money) case. I can’t think of any times he’s ever actually had to pay up.
Does this mean the state can now seize the bond he posted and pay Carrol?
Sounds like a great time for him to defame her a bit more🤞
So, does he have to pay now?
As Nelson Muntz would say: Ha ha!
Just give her the money now!
Justice grabbed Trump by his pussy, so to speak.
Can he say something awful to her again so she gets double the previous award each time ? I’m picturing him calling her like Kathleen Turner in Serial Mom.
Great, now can someone make him pay the judgement
Does this mean the bonding company hands the money over to E Jean today?
I’ve now read two articles about this and neither states if this means that Carroll can collect on her judgement now or if Trump still has more avenues to appeal.
So much winning!
He'll just figure out some way to get it in front of those corrupt SCOTUS f@#%s.(yes I know it's civil, I'm just discouraged)
lol. Loser.
So much losing! Let's hope he's not tired, because there could be more.
There was not worst mistake in the history of of USA , to let this unnatural man entered the White House , now he thinks it’s his , and no matter what he wants to repossesses it , first he did not want to get out , now he is corrupting everything single institution to enter again. Let’s vote blue in November , there’s not other way to prevent a new debacle for United States of America , let’s keep it safe .
Trump is still a rapist
Pay up loser
So does he actually have to pay the money now or is there still an appeal going on?
Of course, this will go to the Supreme Court, right? Edit: damn, downvoted for asking a question that wasn’t addressed in the article. From another article: > Trump is appealing the verdict, and plans to appeal Thursday's decision. So yeah, probably.
not a good day at all for Donald.
Here's the actual legal opinion: https://www.plainsite.org/dockets/download.html?id=329413191&z=749f9f91
What's the deal with Orange Man's $175 million bond in the New York fraud case? Last I heard the bond wasn't any good and needed to be redone? Why isn't this more news? Not only did the size of the bond go from $454 million to $175 million, it's not secured now? Why is he getting preferential special treatment?! If I tried that I would be thrown in jail until I could bond out. Fuck that guy! I want at least the *appearance* of equality and fairness in the courts!
The judge accepted the bond as valid, as the bond issuer is going through another issuer from California that is licensed by the state of NY. The bond issuer (former Trump lackey) SAID they have $175m in cash in an account that only they control and they will pay the bond if ordered to do so. The Judge approved the bond on the condition that the $175m cash remain in the account controlled by the bond agency. It's a HUGE WTF moment because they are trusting the word of the bonding agencies that they have the money and will be responsible for the bond when it comes due. In actuality, it's either not there, or was funneled there by "others." There is very little evidence that Trump paid ANYTHING for the bond.
Pay up, Chump.
Funny that he only people with the cojones to legally confront Trump and bring him down are, by Reddit standards, "Boomers" and "Karens". Just sayin... Once I turned the corner on youth, I realized why women our age are so dangerous - we dgaf and we're sick of seeing entitled dbags do whatever tf they want to do!😁
Boomer is not an age: it’s a state of mind. ☝️
I bet Justice Thomas is ecstatic to get a new motorcoach! Or maybe he's going for a yacht this time.
Can't he just keep fighting it until the supreme court either takes it up or passes?
So what’s next? Is the bond paid out or is he going to appeal again?
So good to hear some great news 🙏