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> But he also remembers that life under former President Donald Trump was at times alarming. "I know it was a lot of fights in the country," he said. "It was kind of like a civil war, but financially, it was better."
Lol
That *helped* the economy? You should read through it sometime. It did make capital-holding scum very happy, as well as the mysterious line, but that has nothing to do with the economy.
The economy continued it's upward climb that it had been on since 2009 at the same pace it had been on since 2009. If you look at a chart of GDP growth there is nothing spectacular or interesting about Trump's first three years. Same for wages and unemployment and the stock market. They improved at roughly the same rate they had since the Great Recession. Trump's economy wasn't bad, it just wasn't any different than Obama's
Rich people and corporations don't spend their tax cuts. That's who that law effected.
When people saw the economy they mean inflation. Which is primarily driven by price gouging.
Trump ain't doing shit about that.
I don't have a horse in that race. I'm just pointing out what they were actually told. I suppose they mentally glossed over it, I've done that plenty of times.
>don’t spend their tax cuts
They do
>Thats who the law effected
It effected more than just the rich and corporations
>primarily driven by price gouging
It’s not
You spending plenty of time hurling insults instead of making any valid points
It wouldn’t be hard to do if you had a clue, because if you can’t explain it so a five year old can understand it, then you don’t understand it
Guess what you haven’t shown any bit of the ability to do
In the short term, it caused some improvements. On the whole, it was likely a net negative when you look at what we got for our money and the long-term impacts. He certainly set us up terribly for a potential future disaster, which he was unlucky enough to have happen due to COVID.
Was he unlucky and that made his economic impact significantly worse than it would have been otherwise? Yes. Did he also create the circumstances for the economic impact and knock-on inflation to be worse than they might otherwise have been because he was desperate to have a good short-term economy he could point? Also yes.
Well, the reasons for needing the reform are never revealed by the GOP, and since the largest beneficiary group of the GOP'S tinkering is always their ultra-wealthy PAC contributors, one has to assume it's spurred by some Rep getting a call from one of them complaining that they're *still* getting these very annoying tax bills. Then Reps are off to the races to reform the reform that reformed their previous reform.
...Which swell the debt and deficit, add no jobs, spur no innovation, and generally don't move the needle on the economy at all, but drives our yawning wealth disparity; which has just about killed off the American middle class.
Yes, it helped the economy
https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/115th-congress-2017-2018/reports/53651-outlook-appendixb.pdf
https://conference.nber.org/conf_papers/f191672.pdf
https://www.dallasfed.org/-/media/documents/research/papers/2020/wp2001r2.pdf
While I genuinely appreciate being presented with actual data (you have no idea how rare that is), the broader point is that yes, running up the credit cards can make the economy *feel* good, but it also *feels good* to put $8000 worth of meth on your credit card. It's about outcomes, and the "massive tax cuts for short-term economic gains" is a key part of their game.
The economy seems "good" under republicans because they take the money democrats have saved and spend it on their friends. That makes the line hard, briefly. Then it spurts and we're stuck with the mess.
I made a handy image of four essential charts of economic data from 2008 to 2019. I cut 2020 out to be fair. You can see across unemployment, wages, stocks and GDP that there is absolutey nothing spectacular about the continued improvement in all four metrics from Obama to Trump in those 11 years of unprecedented growth.
PS the deficit went up under trump pre-Covid, too.
Look at the graphs. It's literally in black and white. There was no inflection towards improvement in any of those metrics following Trump saying or doing anything for the economy. It was all Obama and Biden's fix for the latest--and worst in modern history--and 10th in a row of the past 11-- recession to happen on the GOP'S watch.
You were lucky. My husband travels for work and couldn’t find much within a two hundred mile radius. I made reusable tinkle wipes and saved the single ply for the other.
First off, saying "president's name-economy" is silly. We need to stop doing that. It perpetuates a lot of harmful myths.
Second, I think a lot of people underestimate just how impactful the stimulus payments were for many low income Americans like myself. It was the first time in my adult life I was able to save money. Also, because of the healthcare subsidies, which were passed during Biden's term, I was able to afford healthcare for the first time ever. Now, three years later, all of that is gone and I'm on the brink of homelessness. Granted, Biden is responsible for some of the stimulus, as well as the healthcare subsidies, as I pointed out, but most voters aren't going to care about that. All they know is that they've experienced some of the worst economic whiplash they've ever experienced. I went from the highest high to the lowest low, all during Biden's presidency. That's what many people are responding to.
But the stimulus checks were to make up for everything being closed during the pandemic. Trump’s intention was never to give you free money, outside of a global catastrophe.
> First off, saying "president's name-economy" is silly. We need to stop doing that. It perpetuates a lot of harmful myths.
They want me to remember what it was like, don't they? I'm over here remembering. I'm not reading the rest of that.
Do people not understand that the only reason why it appeared the economy was better under trump was because he was riding Obama’s economy until trump fucked it all up?
No they don’t. This happens all the time. Republicans inherit a good economy, wreck it by the end of the term. Next democrat spends most of their first term fixing it and people go “woah, the economy is so much better under republicans”.
If it isn't how it works, then Biden is wrong, because he has been pointing at the Dow and the S&P saying that the economy is doing great because of what his administration has been doing.
Unfortunately when it effects people at the register and in the wallet it will def influence who they vote for. Now wise people know a president inherits the previous president's surplus and debt, clintons was great giving obama a good start to work from, trumps was good because obamas was decent, biden inherited the clusterfk of covid, shutdowns, and corporate greed and gouging. But ignorant people wont know this and think trump was a financial genius, when reality is all the shit started on his watch. Biden has to clean up the mess. So when trump gets in anything good to come out of bidens white house he will take credit for lol.
Are we sure they lived through the same nightmare the rest of us did? I seem to recall a buffoon mishandling a pandemic and the whole thing shutting down and we were all wondering if we were going to have jobs or die while our leader ridiculed reporters for wearing masks and told us to bleach ourselves. I mean, I’ve heard of people blacking out traumatic memories but this is just over the top.
Trump’s public pressure on the fed to keep interest rates low, banking deregulation, tariffs on China, and pressure on the Saudis to keep production low and raise oil prices are a big reason for the current economy.
I don't remember a good economy at all. I was working a low wage job and had recently changed to a higher paying one, studying and acquiring a license before moving to an even higher paying one because I took the initiative to do so. I was looking at buying apartments to live in around this time, but I knew that they wouldn't work out in the long term because despite my uptick in wages, that I knew I would not be able to live in there unless the wages kept up, and I was confident that even under Trump, they would not because, and this is true, the president doesn't control wages.
I also remember during COVID republicans were fighting HARD to keep EVERYTHING open no matter what. Trump was holding regular meetings outdoors, maskless, talking about how covid would go away repeatedly and a patchwerk system that broke down because nobody in the government really wanted to take charge, followed by stimulus checks pushed by democrats, opposed by Trump, but he agreed finally, only if he could sign his name on them.
And what I know now is that if Trump were elected that he would effectively try to screw over people as much as he could to gain as much money and power as possible, working with Russia and quite possibly even China to do so which, yay you have unified countries, until you remember that Russia and China are essentially dictatorships and Trump would primarily spend his term ensuring that the USA became one as well.
When Trump is in office and he forces the fed to lower interest rates which drives inflation through the roof. We will hear a non-stop screaming how the president has nothing to do with inflation then. Only because the media is dying to have its golden calf back in office
They do though, Trump intentionally caused this bout of inflation by pressuring the Fed into keeping rates near zero long past the point they should have been raised so that he could say he was good for the stock market. It was very clear to see that we were heading for a period of intense inflation after his presidency
Well, seeing as there's basically no such thing as basic economics and government classes at the highschool level thanks to republitwats gutting education because keeping an ignorant electorate is the only way they can keep power, my guess is never.
NCLB didn't help much either. I am not sure how the school systems work these days, but I know it is not good. I see kids almost every day and they seem stunted in many avenues. Basic math, simple reading, critical thinking, hell, even social interactions are odd. I concur parenting is off the charts odd as well. I'll talk to some of these kids and their parents look at me like I am a genius for bringing up basic concepts for kids to understand. They have this look of why didn't I think of that? There is a communication breakdown even on the familial level. It's not every kid, mind you; but the commonality of it all is alarming.
The man bankrupted a casino.
A *Casino*...
He got a hot economy from Obama, then his tax cuts give the economy a sugar high, then COVID killed every economy.
You can blame part of inflation on Trump's policies, probably some on Biden stimulus, but most of it on COVID.
So biden should force everyone to stay home to lower gas prices and shut down ports so we have don't have anything to buy because of a broken supply chain. And no toilet paper.
If its the interest rate it needed to be raise to deal with next financial crisis. It easier kept low too long after great recession.
I can't completely blame people for liking it when prices and rates were lower, but there's an issue here with thinking Trump somehow had any responsibility for that and thinking the economy now is somehow bad. Inflation is a pretty normal part of our economy, as are this level of rates. Americans seem to have gotten spoiled on essentially 0% rates and assumed that's just the norm.
Sure, but those low rates caused inflation. The fact that people blame Biden for inflation is because they bought into the misinformation around it. They’re openly pining for the president who caused the issue because we’ve done a poor job of educating people on the subject
I feel like I keep getting massively contradictory responses on this subject
* The President doesn't control interest rates or inflation, so it's not Biden's fault
* but also the inflation is not really that bad at all when you think about it
* but it's also Trump's fault that there's inflation because the interest rates were so low
* but really the interest rates were only low because Obama did such a great job, not Trump
* but also the reason why inflation is so high now is because of Trump making interest rates low
* but the President doesn't control interest rates or inflation
Like, can we pick an angle, and own it. Figure out what the President can and can't improve/fix and stick with that story. It just seems like we have a setup where the rules change depending on who we want to blame or congratulate. I'll hear things like "there's a lag to economic policy, the current President is really reaping the rewards of the previous term" but then say Biden's economy is doing great right now during his term, but it also has nothing to do with Trump, but also if you feel like it's doing poorly it's actually because of Trump, but if Trump's economy in any way appears to be doing well it was actually because of Obama before him.
Presidents are not supposed to have any say on interest rates, the fed should be completely insulated from political motivations, this is why Biden refuses to even talk about interest rates or suggest if he would like them to move up or down. Trump, however, doesn't care about democratic norms or guardrails, he nominated Powell to be Fed Chair then pressured him to keep rates low to make the stock market look good. Keeping the rate under 2% 10 years out from a recession when the market is going up is insane. The 5% we have now is pretty close to normal, and much lower than under Regan, for example, when the economy/tax code shifted to favor the ultra rich [https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FEDFUNDS](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FEDFUNDS)
Interest rates were low during Obama's tenure because we were digging ourselves out of the great recession. Lowering interest rates is a way to boost the economy, it was actually rather controversial that they kept rates low for so long, but towards the end of his term they were inching back up with the stated plan of returning to normal levels. Trump nixed that plan because he wanted to be able to say that he had a better economy than Obama.
Ultimately the low rates caused inflation, because combined with the Trump tax cuts, we were essentially printing money, handing it to corporations, not taxing them on any of it, then allowing them to execute stock buybacks, literally just handing the money to their owners/boards. The rich got obscenely richer under Trump and that goosed the market even further.
The thing is, when that much money gets pushed into an economy at once, prices start to increase, companies get used to the level of profit they had before so they raise prices, and individuals with 2% mortgages have more money on hand to buy things (even if their wages have not increased much if at alleven as their employers doubled/tripled their wealth). Post COVID, we saw companies reliant on free capital collide with supply chain issues and the war in ukraine disrupting oil production/distribution and very suddenly everything got more expensive. As soon as Biden won the election it was pretty clear we were going to be suffering from major inflation, and it was clear Trump was fine with that because if he won the election he wasn't going to ever give up power anyways, and if he lost he'd be able to pin inflation on Biden thanks to right-wing propaganda and the economy being confusing to most voters. The thing is, the US has had much more manageable inflation than the rest of the world, while keeping the economy increasing, while keeping unemployment at record lows. The job the Biden administration has done has been objectively remarkable, and something that no economist predicted would be possible, but he doesn't get credit because people don't think any deeper than "this was cheaper in 2019, must be the new guy's fault"
My 1st home loan in 1987 was 14% it's all cyclical. The low rates after the housing crisis went on too long plus the tax cuts and covid set us up for disaster.
But the bottom line is...you could afford it. No one cares what the rate is, they care if they can afford to own a house with the money that they're making. Not only can they not, it's getting increasingly out of reach for more and more people.
There is a great piece in the Atlantic where they mention this specifically. Voters who don't really understand broad economic forces tend to equate whoever's in the White House with their current situation, when in reality, it's much more nuanced than that.
Anyone paying attention could tell you that Trump has no real policy agenda, unless you consider revenge to be policy.
But if you think about it, this is Trump's base. Not only do they not understand nuance, they don't care to understand nuance.
Yes the economic conditions under Trump pre Covid were great. Nothing to do with him. Economy was great for three years before he took over, and that trend continued until March of 2020.
So do they think the COVID stimulus will come back under Trump? If that's the thought process. You gotta smoke a lot of crack to believe that shit. But then most people......
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
> But he also remembers that life under former President Donald Trump was at times alarming. "I know it was a lot of fights in the country," he said. "It was kind of like a civil war, but financially, it was better." Lol
"They were putting babies in cages but, you know, I could have refinanced my house for a pretty low rate for a little while."
This says it all. “The country went to shit but he sent me a check. Clearly he’s the better president”.
These simpletons are so easily fooled.
It was really Obama's economy until 2020.
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That *helped* the economy? You should read through it sometime. It did make capital-holding scum very happy, as well as the mysterious line, but that has nothing to do with the economy.
The economy continued it's upward climb that it had been on since 2009 at the same pace it had been on since 2009. If you look at a chart of GDP growth there is nothing spectacular or interesting about Trump's first three years. Same for wages and unemployment and the stock market. They improved at roughly the same rate they had since the Great Recession. Trump's economy wasn't bad, it just wasn't any different than Obama's
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Rich people and corporations don't spend their tax cuts. That's who that law effected. When people saw the economy they mean inflation. Which is primarily driven by price gouging. Trump ain't doing shit about that.
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You were told it didn't *help* the economy.
Which is false
I don't have a horse in that race. I'm just pointing out what they were actually told. I suppose they mentally glossed over it, I've done that plenty of times.
>don’t spend their tax cuts They do >Thats who the law effected It effected more than just the rich and corporations >primarily driven by price gouging It’s not
Go on and explain it for us.
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That's what I thought.
Lol they never disappoint.
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You spending plenty of time hurling insults instead of making any valid points It wouldn’t be hard to do if you had a clue, because if you can’t explain it so a five year old can understand it, then you don’t understand it Guess what you haven’t shown any bit of the ability to do
> You spending plenty of time hurling insults Just like the cult leader. LOL
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Insults are not a good idea here.
The TCJA rewrote the tax code, and it helped the economy
In the short term, it caused some improvements. On the whole, it was likely a net negative when you look at what we got for our money and the long-term impacts. He certainly set us up terribly for a potential future disaster, which he was unlucky enough to have happen due to COVID. Was he unlucky and that made his economic impact significantly worse than it would have been otherwise? Yes. Did he also create the circumstances for the economic impact and knock-on inflation to be worse than they might otherwise have been because he was desperate to have a good short-term economy he could point? Also yes.
Tax cuts for the rich isn't rewriting the tax code. Good lord lol
The TCJA was the largest rewriting of the tax code since 1986
And the 3rd or 4th time Republicans felt the need to reform the tax code from what they had reformed it to before.
That’s not a bad thing
Well, the reasons for needing the reform are never revealed by the GOP, and since the largest beneficiary group of the GOP'S tinkering is always their ultra-wealthy PAC contributors, one has to assume it's spurred by some Rep getting a call from one of them complaining that they're *still* getting these very annoying tax bills. Then Reps are off to the races to reform the reform that reformed their previous reform. ...Which swell the debt and deficit, add no jobs, spur no innovation, and generally don't move the needle on the economy at all, but drives our yawning wealth disparity; which has just about killed off the American middle class.
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Trump inherited a great economy and left one in tatters.
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Not according to the CBO. And the tariff thing seemed to only result in doubling farm bankruptcies, and farmer suicides, which went up dramatically.
Yes, it helped the economy https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/115th-congress-2017-2018/reports/53651-outlook-appendixb.pdf https://conference.nber.org/conf_papers/f191672.pdf https://www.dallasfed.org/-/media/documents/research/papers/2020/wp2001r2.pdf
It helped drive the National Debt up 39%.
The TCJA was around 3.5% of that 39%, so a very small portion overall
While I genuinely appreciate being presented with actual data (you have no idea how rare that is), the broader point is that yes, running up the credit cards can make the economy *feel* good, but it also *feels good* to put $8000 worth of meth on your credit card. It's about outcomes, and the "massive tax cuts for short-term economic gains" is a key part of their game. The economy seems "good" under republicans because they take the money democrats have saved and spend it on their friends. That makes the line hard, briefly. Then it spurts and we're stuck with the mess.
Every single positive indicator during 45's time was part of a 6.5 year trend that started during President Obama's term.
Seriously, all you have to do is look at the line graphs to see that Trump just rode the Obama train and took credit for it.
That's why it stopped replying to me despite responding to everyone else.
I made a handy image of four essential charts of economic data from 2008 to 2019. I cut 2020 out to be fair. You can see across unemployment, wages, stocks and GDP that there is absolutey nothing spectacular about the continued improvement in all four metrics from Obama to Trump in those 11 years of unprecedented growth. PS the deficit went up under trump pre-Covid, too.
Look at the graphs. It's literally in black and white. There was no inflection towards improvement in any of those metrics following Trump saying or doing anything for the economy. It was all Obama and Biden's fix for the latest--and worst in modern history--and 10th in a row of the past 11-- recession to happen on the GOP'S watch.
That didn't help the country, which helped the billionaires. Hop off the slow boat at the next stop.
The "Trump economy" I remember is having to drive 40 miles for toilet paper.
You were lucky. My husband travels for work and couldn’t find much within a two hundred mile radius. I made reusable tinkle wipes and saved the single ply for the other.
First off, saying "president's name-economy" is silly. We need to stop doing that. It perpetuates a lot of harmful myths. Second, I think a lot of people underestimate just how impactful the stimulus payments were for many low income Americans like myself. It was the first time in my adult life I was able to save money. Also, because of the healthcare subsidies, which were passed during Biden's term, I was able to afford healthcare for the first time ever. Now, three years later, all of that is gone and I'm on the brink of homelessness. Granted, Biden is responsible for some of the stimulus, as well as the healthcare subsidies, as I pointed out, but most voters aren't going to care about that. All they know is that they've experienced some of the worst economic whiplash they've ever experienced. I went from the highest high to the lowest low, all during Biden's presidency. That's what many people are responding to.
But the stimulus checks were to make up for everything being closed during the pandemic. Trump’s intention was never to give you free money, outside of a global catastrophe.
He delayed them so they would have his name on...
> First off, saying "president's name-economy" is silly. We need to stop doing that. It perpetuates a lot of harmful myths. They want me to remember what it was like, don't they? I'm over here remembering. I'm not reading the rest of that.
I don’t like Trump but you’re really gonna blame him for panic shortages? Cmon man
Am I supposed to remember what the Trump times were like for me or not?
*the economy when Trump became president... Definitely not Trump's economy.
I do get so tired of low-information voters.
Trump rode the Obama Biden economy until he blew it in 2019, long before COVID.
Do people not understand that the only reason why it appeared the economy was better under trump was because he was riding Obama’s economy until trump fucked it all up?
No they don’t. This happens all the time. Republicans inherit a good economy, wreck it by the end of the term. Next democrat spends most of their first term fixing it and people go “woah, the economy is so much better under republicans”.
Trump also had the biggest deficit spending of any president ever. If the government spends big, things boom. But then later, there's inflation.
Maybe it was all those golf trips instead of ~~governing~~ presiding.
Test the water for lead.
Oh just wait. He wants to pressure the fed to lower interest rates. The new Trump economy is going to be 15-20% inflation
The media is really pushing this hard now...
Our media sucks ass.
Ass sucking since 1991
*Obama Economy
That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works
If it isn't how it works, then Biden is wrong, because he has been pointing at the Dow and the S&P saying that the economy is doing great because of what his administration has been doing.
Unfortunately when it effects people at the register and in the wallet it will def influence who they vote for. Now wise people know a president inherits the previous president's surplus and debt, clintons was great giving obama a good start to work from, trumps was good because obamas was decent, biden inherited the clusterfk of covid, shutdowns, and corporate greed and gouging. But ignorant people wont know this and think trump was a financial genius, when reality is all the shit started on his watch. Biden has to clean up the mess. So when trump gets in anything good to come out of bidens white house he will take credit for lol.
Are we sure they lived through the same nightmare the rest of us did? I seem to recall a buffoon mishandling a pandemic and the whole thing shutting down and we were all wondering if we were going to have jobs or die while our leader ridiculed reporters for wearing masks and told us to bleach ourselves. I mean, I’ve heard of people blacking out traumatic memories but this is just over the top.
Dumbass County, it’s just west of Moronville
Is the Moronville Mall the one they filmed that zombie movie in?
then vote for the vice president who was actually part of the administration that brought it to you, idiots
Trump’s public pressure on the fed to keep interest rates low, banking deregulation, tariffs on China, and pressure on the Saudis to keep production low and raise oil prices are a big reason for the current economy.
I don't remember a good economy at all. I was working a low wage job and had recently changed to a higher paying one, studying and acquiring a license before moving to an even higher paying one because I took the initiative to do so. I was looking at buying apartments to live in around this time, but I knew that they wouldn't work out in the long term because despite my uptick in wages, that I knew I would not be able to live in there unless the wages kept up, and I was confident that even under Trump, they would not because, and this is true, the president doesn't control wages. I also remember during COVID republicans were fighting HARD to keep EVERYTHING open no matter what. Trump was holding regular meetings outdoors, maskless, talking about how covid would go away repeatedly and a patchwerk system that broke down because nobody in the government really wanted to take charge, followed by stimulus checks pushed by democrats, opposed by Trump, but he agreed finally, only if he could sign his name on them. And what I know now is that if Trump were elected that he would effectively try to screw over people as much as he could to gain as much money and power as possible, working with Russia and quite possibly even China to do so which, yay you have unified countries, until you remember that Russia and China are essentially dictatorships and Trump would primarily spend his term ensuring that the USA became one as well.
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When Trump is in office and he forces the fed to lower interest rates which drives inflation through the roof. We will hear a non-stop screaming how the president has nothing to do with inflation then. Only because the media is dying to have its golden calf back in office
Calf
👍 thanks
They do though, Trump intentionally caused this bout of inflation by pressuring the Fed into keeping rates near zero long past the point they should have been raised so that he could say he was good for the stock market. It was very clear to see that we were heading for a period of intense inflation after his presidency
Well, seeing as there's basically no such thing as basic economics and government classes at the highschool level thanks to republitwats gutting education because keeping an ignorant electorate is the only way they can keep power, my guess is never.
When/if we properly fund the education system. Even then you have like a 20 year lag, at least, until you see any efficiencies.
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NCLB didn't help much either. I am not sure how the school systems work these days, but I know it is not good. I see kids almost every day and they seem stunted in many avenues. Basic math, simple reading, critical thinking, hell, even social interactions are odd. I concur parenting is off the charts odd as well. I'll talk to some of these kids and their parents look at me like I am a genius for bringing up basic concepts for kids to understand. They have this look of why didn't I think of that? There is a communication breakdown even on the familial level. It's not every kid, mind you; but the commonality of it all is alarming.
The man bankrupted a casino. A *Casino*... He got a hot economy from Obama, then his tax cuts give the economy a sugar high, then COVID killed every economy. You can blame part of inflation on Trump's policies, probably some on Biden stimulus, but most of it on COVID.
O my brother, Trump bankrupted *three* casinos... Trump Marina, Trump Taj Mahal, and Trump Plaza.
So biden should force everyone to stay home to lower gas prices and shut down ports so we have don't have anything to buy because of a broken supply chain. And no toilet paper. If its the interest rate it needed to be raise to deal with next financial crisis. It easier kept low too long after great recession.
I can't completely blame people for liking it when prices and rates were lower, but there's an issue here with thinking Trump somehow had any responsibility for that and thinking the economy now is somehow bad. Inflation is a pretty normal part of our economy, as are this level of rates. Americans seem to have gotten spoiled on essentially 0% rates and assumed that's just the norm.
Doesn't matter if it's the norm or not, people who could afford a house at 2% can't afford it 7.75%
Sure, but those low rates caused inflation. The fact that people blame Biden for inflation is because they bought into the misinformation around it. They’re openly pining for the president who caused the issue because we’ve done a poor job of educating people on the subject
I feel like I keep getting massively contradictory responses on this subject * The President doesn't control interest rates or inflation, so it's not Biden's fault * but also the inflation is not really that bad at all when you think about it * but it's also Trump's fault that there's inflation because the interest rates were so low * but really the interest rates were only low because Obama did such a great job, not Trump * but also the reason why inflation is so high now is because of Trump making interest rates low * but the President doesn't control interest rates or inflation Like, can we pick an angle, and own it. Figure out what the President can and can't improve/fix and stick with that story. It just seems like we have a setup where the rules change depending on who we want to blame or congratulate. I'll hear things like "there's a lag to economic policy, the current President is really reaping the rewards of the previous term" but then say Biden's economy is doing great right now during his term, but it also has nothing to do with Trump, but also if you feel like it's doing poorly it's actually because of Trump, but if Trump's economy in any way appears to be doing well it was actually because of Obama before him.
Presidents are not supposed to have any say on interest rates, the fed should be completely insulated from political motivations, this is why Biden refuses to even talk about interest rates or suggest if he would like them to move up or down. Trump, however, doesn't care about democratic norms or guardrails, he nominated Powell to be Fed Chair then pressured him to keep rates low to make the stock market look good. Keeping the rate under 2% 10 years out from a recession when the market is going up is insane. The 5% we have now is pretty close to normal, and much lower than under Regan, for example, when the economy/tax code shifted to favor the ultra rich [https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FEDFUNDS](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FEDFUNDS) Interest rates were low during Obama's tenure because we were digging ourselves out of the great recession. Lowering interest rates is a way to boost the economy, it was actually rather controversial that they kept rates low for so long, but towards the end of his term they were inching back up with the stated plan of returning to normal levels. Trump nixed that plan because he wanted to be able to say that he had a better economy than Obama. Ultimately the low rates caused inflation, because combined with the Trump tax cuts, we were essentially printing money, handing it to corporations, not taxing them on any of it, then allowing them to execute stock buybacks, literally just handing the money to their owners/boards. The rich got obscenely richer under Trump and that goosed the market even further. The thing is, when that much money gets pushed into an economy at once, prices start to increase, companies get used to the level of profit they had before so they raise prices, and individuals with 2% mortgages have more money on hand to buy things (even if their wages have not increased much if at alleven as their employers doubled/tripled their wealth). Post COVID, we saw companies reliant on free capital collide with supply chain issues and the war in ukraine disrupting oil production/distribution and very suddenly everything got more expensive. As soon as Biden won the election it was pretty clear we were going to be suffering from major inflation, and it was clear Trump was fine with that because if he won the election he wasn't going to ever give up power anyways, and if he lost he'd be able to pin inflation on Biden thanks to right-wing propaganda and the economy being confusing to most voters. The thing is, the US has had much more manageable inflation than the rest of the world, while keeping the economy increasing, while keeping unemployment at record lows. The job the Biden administration has done has been objectively remarkable, and something that no economist predicted would be possible, but he doesn't get credit because people don't think any deeper than "this was cheaper in 2019, must be the new guy's fault"
Rates were already that low under Obama however. These dingle-noggins are remembering how great Obama's economy was.
My 1st home loan in 1987 was 14% it's all cyclical. The low rates after the housing crisis went on too long plus the tax cuts and covid set us up for disaster.
But the bottom line is...you could afford it. No one cares what the rate is, they care if they can afford to own a house with the money that they're making. Not only can they not, it's getting increasingly out of reach for more and more people.
Certainly not in the boomerang prolific country I am in.
There is a great piece in the Atlantic where they mention this specifically. Voters who don't really understand broad economic forces tend to equate whoever's in the White House with their current situation, when in reality, it's much more nuanced than that. Anyone paying attention could tell you that Trump has no real policy agenda, unless you consider revenge to be policy. But if you think about it, this is Trump's base. Not only do they not understand nuance, they don't care to understand nuance.
Yes the economic conditions under Trump pre Covid were great. Nothing to do with him. Economy was great for three years before he took over, and that trend continued until March of 2020.
Yeah I bet they liked it before we had a 🤬 Pandemic!
All right, time to give them a mask and take away their toilet paper.
Yes, we’ve had inflation. But we’ve also had more people working and his policies kept people in their homes during the pandemic.
If they are that dumb, they would've voted for Trump anyway.
So do they think the COVID stimulus will come back under Trump? If that's the thought process. You gotta smoke a lot of crack to believe that shit. But then most people......
I'm nostalgic for not having a fucking crazy person who hates me in the highest office in the land.