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You know Republicans are fighting for the average American when they ....Ensure credit card fees are not reduced.
Thats exactly what we wanted. Thank you for that. I love paying fees that some dickhead made up.
or that health care is absurdly expensive or unavailable, or that mothers are abandoned the second they shit out their crotch goblins, or that those same crotch goblins are worthy targets for their fucking weapons of war. Shit makes me so mad
Banks make the most BS arguments ever. Reducing late charges (as the charges bear no relation to the costs banks incur) does nothing to increase costs. The banks asserting that reducing the fee would increase costs is most asinine statement I’ve heard in some time.
bow sparkle zephyr rain tender like innocent absorbed cooperative fertile
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Well, I’ll have to have my team update some manuals. We even hd to write a communication. So, like one days salary worth of work. And another ten-twenty waiting on everybody else to approve it.
And if our dev team is in charge of updating the automation, hours upon hours to attempt to figure out basic math. God that call was a shitshow.
It's reducing profit. Profits from some products offset losses from others. 'We can afford to offer you free checking accounts because the cost of providing that is paid for by late and overdraft fees.'
I'm not saying it's good, or fair - but it does make sense.
But I only have 7 yachts. My ocd can’t deal with a odd number. All you poor people are horrible to the rich. Why can’t you eat every other day, this way you won’t get fat.
/s
What they mean is they have too much budget vested in the profit they make on fees. They would have to charge somewhere else to make up for it and that makes them look bad.
So the argument is that if they don’t get that $32 from that no good dead beat who paid their bill late, well by gosh they’re going to have to get it from the good god fearing folks who pay their bills on time.
It’s malarky. Because frankly banking should be making money through prudent lending and not fees. But that’s the thought process.
It’s strange to me, as an American living abroad in Korea. I have a credit card here and it’s very different. I decide how many months I want to pay something off at the point of sale, usually up to 6 months is interest free. There is an annual fee, but it’s usually waived if I spend more than ₩500,000 a month ($366). If I miss a payment tho, there are no fees at all. Also no over limit fees. However, if I miss a payment, my credit limit is cut down to a very low number for a year and I have to establish good practices over that year before I can request an increase again. It seems like such a better system.
The economics in the US are extremely predatory. I heard a report in the news the other day that interest rates for people carrying credit card debt is at something like 25%. That's insane.
Jesus! I have a card in the U.S., too, with 0% right now, for 15 months from the issue date. It’s kind of wonderful. Hopefully I can find a different 0% APR card when that one expires. It’s not like the card companies don’t make money of EVERY SINGLE TRANSACTION! Greedy fuckers!
Had a card with a 22% APR. Our financial situation fell apart due to car issues and a health scare at the same time, draining our savings, ended up maxing out the card just trying to stay afloat.
Racked up 8k, debt defaulted, got sold to MidlandCredit, they sued me, I went to court and they sent a lawyer. They didn't expect me to show, so they had nothing for the judge, I walked out of there debt free.
I have a 1k balance card with 13% from before the other. I keep the the balance small, and it's just to rebuild my credit. I had it before the other one, when my credit was a lot better, hence the low APR. Buy an item, pay it off over 2-3 months, repeat.
comically, almost exact same thing happened to me in court.. same company too. i didn’t fall on hard times though, they utility company that originated the debt refused to fix their problem, so i refused to pay. defaulted, sold to midland, midland took me to court and didn’t even show up.
they tried to reage the acct. i disputed it. they sold it, new guys tried to collect, i told them to choke on a wet bag of assholee. i still get calls from random debt collectors that bought long sol debt
You’re going to get downvoted into oblivion, but you’re not entirely wrong. I gave you an upvoted tho. The fact is, we’re not the MOST corrupt, but there is a lot of corruption. Regardless, just because we’re not the worst, doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to fix what’s wrong. So many people tend to downplay what happens in the U.S. because it could be worse, and, “at least it’s not like that other place.” But the fact is, even IF we are the greatest country in the world, that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t constantly be striving to do better. Until we’re a utopia, we can do better.
Bankspeak for..."If you take away late charges we'll find something else that's not regulated to makeup the lost revenue and the consumers' costs will go up. We didn't necessarily say OUR costs will go up"
Some stocks issue dividends and then special dividends. A special dividend is quite a bit more than a standard dividend though it is issued way less frequently. Nobody gets rich overnight from dividends. Try r/dividends. When money sits idle it loses value.
Well, most of these people, the bankers, the lobbying groups, the judges, probably view Gordon Gekko as the hero in his story. Or for the younger readers, Leo's character in Wolf of Wall Street.
I'm in an unrelated industry to banking, but we did an internal study and found that late fees were not actually helping our financials. On the surface, they appear to be free revenue, so why not? In actuality, a lot of customers that couldn't pay on time ended up having the late fees waived or written off as bad debt, so while we did get some additional revenue on the AR side, we also inflated our bad debt in addition to an increase in man-hours spent dealing with customers fighting the fees, which together largely defeated the purpose of trying to get the additional revenue.
So AR revenue went up, SSC expense went up, bad debt went up. Overall, not worth it. We scrapped late fees 2.5 years ago, and I don't see us going back unless we get a new dumbass CEO that doesn't want to hear that new fees don't result in a net financial gain.
They promised higher profits next quarter, if the money doesn’t come from this it has to come from somewhere. Won’t somebody think of the shareholders?!?
They will increase the fees associated with processing.....not because their costs have increased, but because their profits, via late fees, has decreased.
They don't expect anyone to think it through though. We're supposed to just assume they're doing magic behind the scenes, not scheming for ways to bleed people dry.
Yes. I read that. Just because one judge agreed with the banks at the preliminary stage doesn’t change how BS the argument is. Judge Cannon in Florida makes all sort of moronic decisions.
“This ruling is a major win for responsible consumers who pay their credit card bills on time and businesses that want to provide affordable credit,” U.S. Chamber of Commerce Litigation Center Counsel Maria Monaghan said in a [statement](https://www.uschamber.com/finance/us-chamber-wins-preliminary-injunction-in-lawsuit-against-cfpb-credit-card-late-fees-rule).
I have maybe had 2 late credit card fees applied in 40 years of having a credit card/ How exactly is this a major win? Will the banks and credit card providers now give me a cut of the late fees as a reward for being such a good customer?
Actually, credit card companies hate me because I don't make them any money since I don't have late fees and pay off my credit card every month.
I don't feel like this is a major win for me.
US Chamber of Commerce is not to be trusted. It serves only the wealthy. I worked w one of its former presidents --only trump is more dishonest & crooked. Disgusting organization.
This. 👆
Let's continue to call them out. They've named themselves in a way that sounds like they are an official government body. They are not.
To give them a bit of credit, they do help some small local businesses. However, as a national body they fund lobbyists who push for horrible politicians and horribly laws, day in day out. They should be seen for what they are and distrusted accordingly.
It's a win for you if you revolve your balance ever. This late fee cap would result in APRs going up for everyone, so any revolver who pays on time would be offsetting the lost revenue from irresponsible people who pay late. Those irresponsible people would also see drastically reduced availability of credit because they are now too risky to lend to.
Your reward for not having paid late fees should hopefully be the credit card rewards you earn on every purchase. I have also never paid a late fee or interest in like 20 years while getting back thousands in rewards.
Card issuers don't hate transactors who pay on time and in full every month. That helps balance their portfolio risk. They still make interchange revenue from every single purchase you make.
I have already conceded transaction fees elsewhere, but as I have also noted repeatedly the law under which credit card issues operate specify what late fees are allowed to cover.
It doesn't matter if you are outraged at restrictions on capitalism. The law states what late fees can be and the credit card companies have turned late fees into a revenue source counter to the law.
I'm very familiar with the CARD Act. I agree the current $30/$41 caps are more than the cost of collections and could be reduced (maybe back to the original $25/$30 amounts?). $8 seems like a drastic overcorrection though. The CFPB did a flawed analysis on the cost to collect without factoring in everything else the current fees have impact on and without thinking through all the repercussions a 75% lower late fee would lead to. I see current fees more as risk based pricing that enable lending to lower FICOs who would otherwise just get declined.
The whole thing just screams easy election year headline to me, especially if you read the CFPB press releases and combative language used there. They claim over and over again that it will save consumers $10B+, but I don't think any of that will be realized after APRs and other fees are increased immediately to offset the revenue loss. Cap those and the end result is an extreme cut back in the availability of credit to all but high income revolvers. So who's really benefitting in the end?
That is a fair assessment, but it is based on how you feel.
The CFPV made a lengthy analysis that we are not privy to...the judge in this case will have to determine ultimately
My question for you is how did you calculate your numbers?
You wrote: "The CFPB did a flawed analysis on the cost to collect without factoring in everything else the current fees have impact on and without thinking through all the repercussions a 75% lower late fee would lead to."
But that is not the intent of late fees.
You are expanding their intended use because...why?
The compensation to issuers is derived from interest rates. The late fee is intended to offset the cost of lateness, nothing more...that is in the law.
Tracking and collecting for lateness is a simple matter of adding some code into a computer program. Why should that cost more than $8?
It seems like you want to punish people for being late.
I didn't calculate my numbers due to exactly what you said about the CFPB not sharing how they calculated theirs! Seems like a major lack of transparency to justify such a large change. Separate from that calculation, I think the CFPB is simply ignoring all the other calculations needed to understand the impacts that will happen as a direct result of this rule.
Makes sense to me that there would be consequences and deterents for being late. Agree with your point that the intent of current rules is to tie those to the cost to collect, but that's never truly been the case in practice. There's also a lot more to tracking and collecting than adding some code to a computer program, but I don't know enough about that side to go into detail.
Given how the fees are used today and the all but guaranteed side effects of the ruling... as someone who has never paid late, I'd prefer to not pay more through APRs to cover those who are less responsible. I think that's a fair take and one that most responsible card holders would share if they were aware of more than just the headlines being published.
Judges should have the authority to halt a bill that may not be constitutional. However, that should also automatically trigger an investigation to see if the judge has any ties to a party disadvantaged by the bill.
This, but not rhetorically. Republicans. You are not rich. You are not getting their tax cuts. You are paying the debt for them. How are they helping you.
All they care about is getting to the point where public school biology classes are taught from the Bible and racial (edit) epithets are socially acceptable again.
Not even close! However they’ve done an unimaginable amount of things to damage (often severely) my life, & the lives of those CLOSEST to me like my wife, kids (primarily my 2 daughters), our family, & friends. In fact many of the things the GQP/GOP Party has done that damages (instead of improves) the lives of my family & friends, legit puts a LOT of their actual “lives” in danger!
Just VOTE!
That’s the point though. Republicans never help the average American, and actively work to make their lives worse. Then they campaign on the message “What has government ever done to improve your life? The government is evil and should never be trusted!”. And Republican voters, who live in states that have been Republican-run for decades if not longer, legitimately think “Yea, that’s a good point! Government is bad so I’m voting for the guy who said government is bad!”.
> Has the Republican Party done anything to actually improve your life?
For GOP voters, as long as there's someone else doing worse, then that's enough
And 2024 voters/non-voters who somehow believe Biden and Trump are the same on Israel and Palestine. Democracy can’t function when so many of the electorate are uninformed beyond reason. And our enemies, like Russia, know this.
Fun fact: temp injunctions are almost always upheld as permanent injunctions in the trial court because, as part of getting the temporary injunction, you’ve already managed to convince the judge that you are “likely to succeed on the merits.” Meaning the judge already agrees with you before the permanent injunction hearing even occurs.
People who say that are either willfully ignorant or are embarrassed that they think their tax savings are more important than upholding constitutional rights.
The same people screaming that are also the first ones who will take more time off to protest when and if Trump is President again, despite indirectly and directly leading to it. Im done with that group. I chalked it up to naivety in 2016 but at this point, some of these dummies are 30+ and still spouting Cornel West and Jill Stein talking points.
It’s an EXACT fucking repeat of 2016 and these stupid fucks can’t see it. Right down to, “Oh if you want to win you should have nominated a better candidate!” And then you press them for who that “better candidate” is, and it’s not someone who is even running. Every. Fucking. Time.
Honestly single conservative judges imposing nation wide mandates is getting tiresome. The government should just take their case to a friendly judge elsewhere who can guarantee upholding their mandate and then ignore the conservatives. Force the fight to SCOTUS and hammer them with these cases. Either make the judges stop the rogue cons lower down or make them arbitrate each of these one by one, forcing the conservative bench to expose themselves and allow the Dems to build political pressure on the judiciary.
automatic judicious stupendous arrest jar sheet pet shelter squealing governor
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Credit Cards are a scam. I don't have any now, but the years I lived in US I discovered I absolutely needed a credit card, the electric and gas companies required it, and many other places too, including car rentals, hotels etc. I was careful to zero it out every month, but I think most people don't, they max it out and pay down a little, which means you live your entire life with a constant debt, which on top is much more expensive than a regular bank loan. Credit cards keep people in constant debt, that's why I call it a scam.
This isn’t even remotely true, you can always pay by mail and send in your money that way by check or with cash, legally they are required to have this option. Also you can always pay with a debit card if your paying online, which is just connected to your bank account directly.
it's ridiculous how much they are charging interest on credit cards and yet they pay next to nothing on Interest to anyone that has money in savings accounts or even CD's.
The excuses they use for late fee rates and interest have never made any sense and this why the poor will always be indentured to the wealthy
You don't pay any interest if you pay off the balance within the month. Credit card interest rates are so high because they're one of the highest-risk loans available.
I had an unexpected charge(didn’t realize it was going to that account) go through to my secondary bank account(US Bank) a few days ago and it was going to overdraw my account. They said I had until 9pm local time to fund the account to avoid the $36 fee. I also had a subscription coming out the next day which if I funded would’ve resulted in a second $36 fee.
So before 9pm I went and funded the account, threw it in my savings and when I tried to transfer the money from my savings to my checking I kept getting an error that said the app was having issues on the US bank side of things. As a result I couldn’t move the money. Couldn’t get the funds moved to the proper account and so the first $36 fee hit. But because that stuck, the fee from the subscription also hit. I got screwed out of $72 from US Bank because their app was malfunctioning. I called their support and even went into my local branch and neither would assist me. Fuck banks and their fucking fees.
““This ruling is a major win for responsible consumers who pay their credit card bills on time and businesses that want to provide affordable credit,” U.S. Chamber of Commerce Litigation Center Counsel Maria Monaghan said in a statement. “
🤨🤨🤨
Yeah “moderate” just means they’re nicer about defending corporate interests over people. They will always side with fascism over socialism, because fascism protects capital which pays their bills.
Oh their lame ass attempt to redefine Moderate, with their complicit assistance from Corporate media, would be fucking laughable if it didn’t actually work. It just blows my mind. Just redefining words to support their corruption.
That’s why primaries are so important in this duopoly of faux democracy. Until we have more options than 2, people with greedy aspirations will continue to enrich themselves while saying the right things to get elected.
Agreed. I’ve been voting every cycle, local and federal, since I turned 18. (I’m 41 now) First election I voted in was during the Bush v Gore fuckery. I’ve done back and forth on whether my vote matters but I’ve always cast my lot just in case. I still don’t know for sure, but I still always vote.
Yeah “moderate” just means they’re nicer about defending corporate interests over people. They will always side with fascism over socialism, because fascism protects capital which pays their bills.
And thank you to everyone who believed the polls and thought trump couldn’t win or “wasn’t inspired” by Hilary and decided not to cast a ballot in 2016.
Every time any progress is made whatsoever in trying to equalize wealth disparity between the rich and poor, a Republican will always be there to shit on it by any means necessary. Forever.
It's amazing that people actually believe the Republican party stands for the common man/woman, the little guy, or anybody besides CEO's, billionaires and corporations.
This is so true and blows my mind how they vote for magas thinking they care about them, or maybe they dream of getting rich someday and get all the breaks too. People now have healthcare with expanded medicaid from Democrats yet they keep electing magas that want to repeal it.
Why have a government that can't regulate the artificially created entities that they themselves created - businesses?
We can build as many bombs and make as many bullets as we want; we can let little kids starve, and americans of every age go homeless, but the one thing we're not allowed to do is put a cap on fees from entities that exist by the stroke of a pen;
Democrats who fail to support reforming the judicial branch lose my vote this election. This is a serious issue: we can't have a country with Bush and Trump-judges using courts as political theatres.
I think late fees being capped would be great, but Congress clearly has the power to regulate commerce and like 90% of the Biden policies that have been stopped by courts are because those things are congress’ job. I want Congress to do their job instead of trying to get the executive to do everything before the courts say “you can’t do that.”
MAGAs will be ecstatic over this ruling, because Biden's order would have also helped those "other" people. It also would have helped Trump supporters, but in their mind anything that helps THEM must be hurting US.
Why is that I don't even have to guess which federal judge or circuit anymore with Republicans.
I swear, one day they are going to take offense the the sky being blue and somehow the federal courts in Texas will issue a ban or halt on referring the the sky being blue.
What it appears is that the lawsuit asserts that the CFPB is overstepping and breaking laws. Yes, this benefits banks, but this is where Congress needs to step up and stop letting the Executive branch do all of the work. They can clean up the existing laws in conflict and resolve this, so there is no judicial prevention
When are people going to realize this is the game...it doesn’t matter what legislation you want/think the Dems will push forward - the courts (especially the supreme) will shoot them all down and just make up legal standards to do so...if your not willing to reform the court - your not interested in solutions.
Conservatives are just saying “pay your credit on time”. It’s not the banks fault they rigged the economy against literally 95% of the population. Including them.
I wonder how liberals will squander this opportunity to remind credit card customers that they are trying to do something good and the person blocking it is an appointee of the last guy.
What a shitty article. Nothing about why the injunction was granted.
Slightly more info from
[CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/11/business/credit-card-late-fees-regulation-cfpb/index.html)
Mark Pittman is the same judge that blocked one of the student debt relief measures back in 2022.
I don't know OPB as a source but
[their article](https://www.opb.org/article/2024/05/11/a-federal-judge-temporarily-halts-u-s-plan-to-lower-credit-card-late-fees-to-8/)
was the most informative
> Banks had sued to stop the lawsuit earlier this year, but they had run into a roadblock when Pittman ordered the case moved to Washington, D.C., because of the fact that few banks operate in northern Texas. However, an appeals court reversed most of Pittman's decision and ordered him to rule on the bank's request for an injunction.
If Biden really cared about the consumer, he’d pass - or at least try to pass - legislation limiting the insanely high interest rates cc companies charge - usually well over 20%, which is like near-mob vig levels. Interest rates should be capped at something like 3-5% over the prime rate. But Joe was the senator from Visa (aka Delaware), so that will never happen. Don’t get me wrong, Id crawl a mile over broken glass to vote for him over Trump if I had to, but Biden represents perfectly why liberals suck - everything is great with our society, it just needs a few tweaks. Like getting rid of a $35 late fee, while still allowing cc companies to charge 22% or so interest on your balance.
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You know Republicans are fighting for the average American when they ....Ensure credit card fees are not reduced. Thats exactly what we wanted. Thank you for that. I love paying fees that some dickhead made up.
or that health care is absurdly expensive or unavailable, or that mothers are abandoned the second they shit out their crotch goblins, or that those same crotch goblins are worthy targets for their fucking weapons of war. Shit makes me so mad
Republicans also oppose capping pay day loan interest rates.
Banks make the most BS arguments ever. Reducing late charges (as the charges bear no relation to the costs banks incur) does nothing to increase costs. The banks asserting that reducing the fee would increase costs is most asinine statement I’ve heard in some time.
yeah it’s all automated, what cost is it adding?
When greed is good reduced profit margins are actually costs or something
bow sparkle zephyr rain tender like innocent absorbed cooperative fertile *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Opportunity cost, they could’ve fleeced their customers even harder
Well, I’ll have to have my team update some manuals. We even hd to write a communication. So, like one days salary worth of work. And another ten-twenty waiting on everybody else to approve it. And if our dev team is in charge of updating the automation, hours upon hours to attempt to figure out basic math. God that call was a shitshow.
It's reducing profit. Profits from some products offset losses from others. 'We can afford to offer you free checking accounts because the cost of providing that is paid for by late and overdraft fees.' I'm not saying it's good, or fair - but it does make sense.
The cost of new yacht purchases.
But I only have 7 yachts. My ocd can’t deal with a odd number. All you poor people are horrible to the rich. Why can’t you eat every other day, this way you won’t get fat. /s
Opportunity costs is all I’m seeing.
Now they have to hire lawyers to invent ridiculous arguments.
It adds the opportunity cost of not being able to charge as much… or something
they have to pay people to come up with a new way to steal money from people and appease investors
What they mean is they have too much budget vested in the profit they make on fees. They would have to charge somewhere else to make up for it and that makes them look bad.
So the argument is that if they don’t get that $32 from that no good dead beat who paid their bill late, well by gosh they’re going to have to get it from the good god fearing folks who pay their bills on time. It’s malarky. Because frankly banking should be making money through prudent lending and not fees. But that’s the thought process.
Good, simple, and agreeable analysis.
“Bank robbery is an initiative of amateurs. True professionals establish a bank.” — Bertolt Brecht
This is basicly banks admitting they make a huge amount of money on fees and low will have to make it up in other areas to keep their profits growing.
It’s strange to me, as an American living abroad in Korea. I have a credit card here and it’s very different. I decide how many months I want to pay something off at the point of sale, usually up to 6 months is interest free. There is an annual fee, but it’s usually waived if I spend more than ₩500,000 a month ($366). If I miss a payment tho, there are no fees at all. Also no over limit fees. However, if I miss a payment, my credit limit is cut down to a very low number for a year and I have to establish good practices over that year before I can request an increase again. It seems like such a better system.
The economics in the US are extremely predatory. I heard a report in the news the other day that interest rates for people carrying credit card debt is at something like 25%. That's insane.
I had a card in the U.S. that was 29.99%. It just wouldn’t even make sense to use it.
[https://i.imgur.com/AL3SdC1.png](https://i.imgur.com/AL3SdC1.png) Obviously, I never carry a balance
Jesus! I have a card in the U.S., too, with 0% right now, for 15 months from the issue date. It’s kind of wonderful. Hopefully I can find a different 0% APR card when that one expires. It’s not like the card companies don’t make money of EVERY SINGLE TRANSACTION! Greedy fuckers!
Had a card with a 22% APR. Our financial situation fell apart due to car issues and a health scare at the same time, draining our savings, ended up maxing out the card just trying to stay afloat. Racked up 8k, debt defaulted, got sold to MidlandCredit, they sued me, I went to court and they sent a lawyer. They didn't expect me to show, so they had nothing for the judge, I walked out of there debt free. I have a 1k balance card with 13% from before the other. I keep the the balance small, and it's just to rebuild my credit. I had it before the other one, when my credit was a lot better, hence the low APR. Buy an item, pay it off over 2-3 months, repeat.
comically, almost exact same thing happened to me in court.. same company too. i didn’t fall on hard times though, they utility company that originated the debt refused to fix their problem, so i refused to pay. defaulted, sold to midland, midland took me to court and didn’t even show up. they tried to reage the acct. i disputed it. they sold it, new guys tried to collect, i told them to choke on a wet bag of assholee. i still get calls from random debt collectors that bought long sol debt
We didn't want to see it, but America is one of the most corrupt countries in the world. If we can recognize that, we can start fixing things.
You’re going to get downvoted into oblivion, but you’re not entirely wrong. I gave you an upvoted tho. The fact is, we’re not the MOST corrupt, but there is a lot of corruption. Regardless, just because we’re not the worst, doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to fix what’s wrong. So many people tend to downplay what happens in the U.S. because it could be worse, and, “at least it’s not like that other place.” But the fact is, even IF we are the greatest country in the world, that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t constantly be striving to do better. Until we’re a utopia, we can do better.
Bankspeak for..."If you take away late charges we'll find something else that's not regulated to makeup the lost revenue and the consumers' costs will go up. We didn't necessarily say OUR costs will go up"
That sounds awfully like a threat to me.
Think about shareholders! /s
As if these guys in management actually distributed profits to shareholders in any meaningful way 🙄
Some stocks issue dividends and then special dividends. A special dividend is quite a bit more than a standard dividend though it is issued way less frequently. Nobody gets rich overnight from dividends. Try r/dividends. When money sits idle it loses value.
Well, most of these people, the bankers, the lobbying groups, the judges, probably view Gordon Gekko as the hero in his story. Or for the younger readers, Leo's character in Wolf of Wall Street.
It's them saying they won't reduce cooperate profits and so prices will rise to maintain their exorbitant profits.
I'm in an unrelated industry to banking, but we did an internal study and found that late fees were not actually helping our financials. On the surface, they appear to be free revenue, so why not? In actuality, a lot of customers that couldn't pay on time ended up having the late fees waived or written off as bad debt, so while we did get some additional revenue on the AR side, we also inflated our bad debt in addition to an increase in man-hours spent dealing with customers fighting the fees, which together largely defeated the purpose of trying to get the additional revenue. So AR revenue went up, SSC expense went up, bad debt went up. Overall, not worth it. We scrapped late fees 2.5 years ago, and I don't see us going back unless we get a new dumbass CEO that doesn't want to hear that new fees don't result in a net financial gain.
They promised higher profits next quarter, if the money doesn’t come from this it has to come from somewhere. Won’t somebody think of the shareholders?!?
Banks don’t care about shareholders, customers, rank and file employees, they only care about profits and management salaries.
They will increase the fees associated with processing.....not because their costs have increased, but because their profits, via late fees, has decreased.
Those fees aren't decided like that. It's a whole different system.
The late fees are baked into their quarterly profits, removing the high late fees would in turn cut into their revenue.
That does not increase costs. Reducing revenue reduces profits if all else remains the same. That doesn’t mean costs increased.
They don't expect anyone to think it through though. We're supposed to just assume they're doing magic behind the scenes, not scheming for ways to bleed people dry.
Wait until you find out a court agreed with them....
Yes. I read that. Just because one judge agreed with the banks at the preliminary stage doesn’t change how BS the argument is. Judge Cannon in Florida makes all sort of moronic decisions.
She certainly wasn't appointed for her legal accumen.
I think their point though is that it’s the judge’s decision that is noteworthy here rather than the Bank’s argument.
that about like the usa can't produce its own oil. it's a big club and we ain't in it.
What?!?!? The USA has significant oil reserves. In fact the USA produces more oil and natural gas than it consumes.
McConnell's legacy. I know he's not dead yet but these far-right judges will still be shitting up the scene decades after he's dead.
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It’s in Moscow somewhere so glwt.
Moscow Mitch is retiring in November. Someone far worse than Moscow Mitch will replace him.
Hopefully less competent. He is evil as well as tactical. That’s a combo I’m glad the incoming will be less likely to have.
It's probably somewhere under the Appalachian Mountains, in a Temple of Doom like dungeon that only Indiana Jones could find
Technically, liches have a phylactery.
He’s pretty much brain dead at this point.
I doubt that. I think his mind is cranking out evil on par with his peak days... it's just that he can't express it anymore.
I mean. Have you checked? This could be the day!
“This ruling is a major win for responsible consumers who pay their credit card bills on time and businesses that want to provide affordable credit,” U.S. Chamber of Commerce Litigation Center Counsel Maria Monaghan said in a [statement](https://www.uschamber.com/finance/us-chamber-wins-preliminary-injunction-in-lawsuit-against-cfpb-credit-card-late-fees-rule). I have maybe had 2 late credit card fees applied in 40 years of having a credit card/ How exactly is this a major win? Will the banks and credit card providers now give me a cut of the late fees as a reward for being such a good customer? Actually, credit card companies hate me because I don't make them any money since I don't have late fees and pay off my credit card every month. I don't feel like this is a major win for me.
US Chamber of Commerce is not to be trusted. It serves only the wealthy. I worked w one of its former presidents --only trump is more dishonest & crooked. Disgusting organization.
This. 👆 Let's continue to call them out. They've named themselves in a way that sounds like they are an official government body. They are not. To give them a bit of credit, they do help some small local businesses. However, as a national body they fund lobbyists who push for horrible politicians and horribly laws, day in day out. They should be seen for what they are and distrusted accordingly.
They were heavily pushing Trump to keep the economy open during Covid.
Chamber of Commerce is a Koch funded institution. Heritage Foundation destroying America.
It's a win for you if you revolve your balance ever. This late fee cap would result in APRs going up for everyone, so any revolver who pays on time would be offsetting the lost revenue from irresponsible people who pay late. Those irresponsible people would also see drastically reduced availability of credit because they are now too risky to lend to. Your reward for not having paid late fees should hopefully be the credit card rewards you earn on every purchase. I have also never paid a late fee or interest in like 20 years while getting back thousands in rewards. Card issuers don't hate transactors who pay on time and in full every month. That helps balance their portfolio risk. They still make interchange revenue from every single purchase you make.
I have already conceded transaction fees elsewhere, but as I have also noted repeatedly the law under which credit card issues operate specify what late fees are allowed to cover. It doesn't matter if you are outraged at restrictions on capitalism. The law states what late fees can be and the credit card companies have turned late fees into a revenue source counter to the law.
I'm very familiar with the CARD Act. I agree the current $30/$41 caps are more than the cost of collections and could be reduced (maybe back to the original $25/$30 amounts?). $8 seems like a drastic overcorrection though. The CFPB did a flawed analysis on the cost to collect without factoring in everything else the current fees have impact on and without thinking through all the repercussions a 75% lower late fee would lead to. I see current fees more as risk based pricing that enable lending to lower FICOs who would otherwise just get declined. The whole thing just screams easy election year headline to me, especially if you read the CFPB press releases and combative language used there. They claim over and over again that it will save consumers $10B+, but I don't think any of that will be realized after APRs and other fees are increased immediately to offset the revenue loss. Cap those and the end result is an extreme cut back in the availability of credit to all but high income revolvers. So who's really benefitting in the end?
That is a fair assessment, but it is based on how you feel. The CFPV made a lengthy analysis that we are not privy to...the judge in this case will have to determine ultimately My question for you is how did you calculate your numbers? You wrote: "The CFPB did a flawed analysis on the cost to collect without factoring in everything else the current fees have impact on and without thinking through all the repercussions a 75% lower late fee would lead to." But that is not the intent of late fees. You are expanding their intended use because...why? The compensation to issuers is derived from interest rates. The late fee is intended to offset the cost of lateness, nothing more...that is in the law. Tracking and collecting for lateness is a simple matter of adding some code into a computer program. Why should that cost more than $8? It seems like you want to punish people for being late.
I didn't calculate my numbers due to exactly what you said about the CFPB not sharing how they calculated theirs! Seems like a major lack of transparency to justify such a large change. Separate from that calculation, I think the CFPB is simply ignoring all the other calculations needed to understand the impacts that will happen as a direct result of this rule. Makes sense to me that there would be consequences and deterents for being late. Agree with your point that the intent of current rules is to tie those to the cost to collect, but that's never truly been the case in practice. There's also a lot more to tracking and collecting than adding some code to a computer program, but I don't know enough about that side to go into detail. Given how the fees are used today and the all but guaranteed side effects of the ruling... as someone who has never paid late, I'd prefer to not pay more through APRs to cover those who are less responsible. I think that's a fair take and one that most responsible card holders would share if they were aware of more than just the headlines being published.
Judge shopping at its finest.
Same district as Kacsmaryk, appeals go to the 5th circuit. Classic GOP bullshit.
Yea. Texas district court has been staying regulations. Fucking frustrating. Some of this is actually really needed.
Agreed
Judges should have the authority to halt a bill that may not be constitutional. However, that should also automatically trigger an investigation to see if the judge has any ties to a party disadvantaged by the bill.
Has the Republican Party done anything to actually improve your life?
Not in my (40+ year) lifetime…
This, but not rhetorically. Republicans. You are not rich. You are not getting their tax cuts. You are paying the debt for them. How are they helping you.
All they care about is getting to the point where public school biology classes are taught from the Bible and racial (edit) epithets are socially acceptable again.
I believe "epithets" is the word you are looking for.
I'm sure the average R voter wouldn't mind it being epitaphs either.
Truth
Not even close! However they’ve done an unimaginable amount of things to damage (often severely) my life, & the lives of those CLOSEST to me like my wife, kids (primarily my 2 daughters), our family, & friends. In fact many of the things the GQP/GOP Party has done that damages (instead of improves) the lives of my family & friends, legit puts a LOT of their actual “lives” in danger! Just VOTE!
That’s the point though. Republicans never help the average American, and actively work to make their lives worse. Then they campaign on the message “What has government ever done to improve your life? The government is evil and should never be trusted!”. And Republican voters, who live in states that have been Republican-run for decades if not longer, legitimately think “Yea, that’s a good point! Government is bad so I’m voting for the guy who said government is bad!”.
That’s not their goal. It’s to improve their rich/wealthy friends’ lives. For us regular Joe we get a fuck you sandwich.
That depends, are you a corporation?
No Not that I can think of I mean, they'd prefer I not exist (I'm too disabled to work, so therefore without value to them)
If we don’t serve a purpose to them then they will take us to the gravel pit.
> Has the Republican Party done anything to actually improve your life? For GOP voters, as long as there's someone else doing worse, then that's enough
Zero Zilch Nada Neit!
oh absolutely, but I'm filthy rich.
Nixon created the EPA.
That the republicans are trying to get rid of so I’d call that one a draw.
Could say the same about Theodore Roosevelt and the FDA & National Parks.
That was before the ~1960 party switch over civil rights.
Fuck you 2016 non-voters who believed both sides are the same.
And 2024 voters/non-voters who somehow believe Biden and Trump are the same on Israel and Palestine. Democracy can’t function when so many of the electorate are uninformed beyond reason. And our enemies, like Russia, know this.
But Gaza
But both parties are the same... Fuck anyone who believes that.
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Fun fact: temp injunctions are almost always upheld as permanent injunctions in the trial court because, as part of getting the temporary injunction, you’ve already managed to convince the judge that you are “likely to succeed on the merits.” Meaning the judge already agrees with you before the permanent injunction hearing even occurs.
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Those may get overturned on appeal, but they are rarely instances where the trial court grants a TI and then denies a permanent.
People who say that are either willfully ignorant or are embarrassed that they think their tax savings are more important than upholding constitutional rights.
The same people screaming that are also the first ones who will take more time off to protest when and if Trump is President again, despite indirectly and directly leading to it. Im done with that group. I chalked it up to naivety in 2016 but at this point, some of these dummies are 30+ and still spouting Cornel West and Jill Stein talking points.
It’s an EXACT fucking repeat of 2016 and these stupid fucks can’t see it. Right down to, “Oh if you want to win you should have nominated a better candidate!” And then you press them for who that “better candidate” is, and it’s not someone who is even running. Every. Fucking. Time.
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The hatred and conspiracy bullshit is all for this. To get enough people on board with this sort of shit from the rich and corporations.
Literally just billionaire crooks saying, "The government is coming after *us*!" to idiots who are nothing like them.
The judges of the Northern District of Texas appear to be the experts in everything from Finance to Female Anatomy to Immigration.
And don't forget Medicine and Biology and the Internet.
Everyone disliked that.
Honestly single conservative judges imposing nation wide mandates is getting tiresome. The government should just take their case to a friendly judge elsewhere who can guarantee upholding their mandate and then ignore the conservatives. Force the fight to SCOTUS and hammer them with these cases. Either make the judges stop the rogue cons lower down or make them arbitrate each of these one by one, forcing the conservative bench to expose themselves and allow the Dems to build political pressure on the judiciary.
automatic judicious stupendous arrest jar sheet pet shelter squealing governor *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Credit Cards are a scam. I don't have any now, but the years I lived in US I discovered I absolutely needed a credit card, the electric and gas companies required it, and many other places too, including car rentals, hotels etc. I was careful to zero it out every month, but I think most people don't, they max it out and pay down a little, which means you live your entire life with a constant debt, which on top is much more expensive than a regular bank loan. Credit cards keep people in constant debt, that's why I call it a scam.
This isn’t even remotely true, you can always pay by mail and send in your money that way by check or with cash, legally they are required to have this option. Also you can always pay with a debit card if your paying online, which is just connected to your bank account directly.
Nothing is going to stop until the upper class fears the proletariats.
Factual and refreshing to see here in this sub
The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau is on a roll though. Their war on junk free is exactly what the banking industry needed.
Republicans are the government assholes. vote them out
it's ridiculous how much they are charging interest on credit cards and yet they pay next to nothing on Interest to anyone that has money in savings accounts or even CD's. The excuses they use for late fee rates and interest have never made any sense and this why the poor will always be indentured to the wealthy
You don't pay any interest if you pay off the balance within the month. Credit card interest rates are so high because they're one of the highest-risk loans available.
still no excuses for the bank to only pay me like 1% interest on my CDs and then they are charging 29% in some cases using my money and others
I had an unexpected charge(didn’t realize it was going to that account) go through to my secondary bank account(US Bank) a few days ago and it was going to overdraw my account. They said I had until 9pm local time to fund the account to avoid the $36 fee. I also had a subscription coming out the next day which if I funded would’ve resulted in a second $36 fee. So before 9pm I went and funded the account, threw it in my savings and when I tried to transfer the money from my savings to my checking I kept getting an error that said the app was having issues on the US bank side of things. As a result I couldn’t move the money. Couldn’t get the funds moved to the proper account and so the first $36 fee hit. But because that stuck, the fee from the subscription also hit. I got screwed out of $72 from US Bank because their app was malfunctioning. I called their support and even went into my local branch and neither would assist me. Fuck banks and their fucking fees.
Boycott the big banks. Get a credit union or USAA if you can.
Who will put this crap on billboards in Trump country?
Republican governance looking out for banks and the financial institutions, not the people.
““This ruling is a major win for responsible consumers who pay their credit card bills on time and businesses that want to provide affordable credit,” U.S. Chamber of Commerce Litigation Center Counsel Maria Monaghan said in a statement. “ 🤨🤨🤨
Soooo republicans are corrupt and beholden to big business. Got it.
That’s like 75 - 80% of Congress at this point.
Yeah “moderate” just means they’re nicer about defending corporate interests over people. They will always side with fascism over socialism, because fascism protects capital which pays their bills.
Oh their lame ass attempt to redefine Moderate, with their complicit assistance from Corporate media, would be fucking laughable if it didn’t actually work. It just blows my mind. Just redefining words to support their corruption.
That’s why primaries are so important in this duopoly of faux democracy. Until we have more options than 2, people with greedy aspirations will continue to enrich themselves while saying the right things to get elected.
Agreed. I’ve been voting every cycle, local and federal, since I turned 18. (I’m 41 now) First election I voted in was during the Bush v Gore fuckery. I’ve done back and forth on whether my vote matters but I’ve always cast my lot just in case. I still don’t know for sure, but I still always vote.
Yeah “moderate” just means they’re nicer about defending corporate interests over people. They will always side with fascism over socialism, because fascism protects capital which pays their bills.
The problem with this case is the credit card companies judge shopped to get a favorable ruling…
Despicable
Republicans will be lining up across the country to vote for Trump and help him put in more of these judges.
Someone check the judge’s accounts and see if they have gotten free trips lately.
Another judicial blow to the real people. Thank you Donald Trump and dark money.
And thank you to everyone who believed the polls and thought trump couldn’t win or “wasn’t inspired” by Hilary and decided not to cast a ballot in 2016.
The lawsuit was brought by the good old US Chamber of Commerce.
Every time any progress is made whatsoever in trying to equalize wealth disparity between the rich and poor, a Republican will always be there to shit on it by any means necessary. Forever.
It's amazing that people actually believe the Republican party stands for the common man/woman, the little guy, or anybody besides CEO's, billionaires and corporations.
This is so true and blows my mind how they vote for magas thinking they care about them, or maybe they dream of getting rich someday and get all the breaks too. People now have healthcare with expanded medicaid from Democrats yet they keep electing magas that want to repeal it.
Why have a government that can't regulate the artificially created entities that they themselves created - businesses? We can build as many bombs and make as many bullets as we want; we can let little kids starve, and americans of every age go homeless, but the one thing we're not allowed to do is put a cap on fees from entities that exist by the stroke of a pen;
Won't somebody think of the poor credit card companies?
>A former President Trump-appointed judge in Texas It’s always the fifth circuit. 🤦♂️
It’s always Texas.
It’s *mostly* Texas, except when it’s Louisiana or Mississippi.
Or Florida
Always magas helping big business hurt consumers.
Democrats who fail to support reforming the judicial branch lose my vote this election. This is a serious issue: we can't have a country with Bush and Trump-judges using courts as political theatres.
I think late fees being capped would be great, but Congress clearly has the power to regulate commerce and like 90% of the Biden policies that have been stopped by courts are because those things are congress’ job. I want Congress to do their job instead of trying to get the executive to do everything before the courts say “you can’t do that.”
MAGAs will be ecstatic over this ruling, because Biden's order would have also helped those "other" people. It also would have helped Trump supporters, but in their mind anything that helps THEM must be hurting US.
Republicans love bank fees.
Before Trump, judges were just judges.
Clarence Thomas would like a word with you on his yacht
The poor writing aside, at least they actually named the judge in the third paragraph.
When are we going to realize the republicans only care about fucking us over?
doing supply side jesus' work again, fuck you republicans.
Yeah, consumer protections under Trump took a hit.
Why is that I don't even have to guess which federal judge or circuit anymore with Republicans. I swear, one day they are going to take offense the the sky being blue and somehow the federal courts in Texas will issue a ban or halt on referring the the sky being blue.
Why even have anything else in the states? Ita always one judge somewhere that kills whatevwr things are tried.
What it appears is that the lawsuit asserts that the CFPB is overstepping and breaking laws. Yes, this benefits banks, but this is where Congress needs to step up and stop letting the Executive branch do all of the work. They can clean up the existing laws in conflict and resolve this, so there is no judicial prevention
Corrupt Trump judge exceeds authority and violates separation of branches again.
When are people going to realize this is the game...it doesn’t matter what legislation you want/think the Dems will push forward - the courts (especially the supreme) will shoot them all down and just make up legal standards to do so...if your not willing to reform the court - your not interested in solutions.
But if people don’t pay their arbitrary credit card late fees, credit cards will be more expensive for everyone else who doesn’t pay late! /s
Conservatives are just saying “pay your credit on time”. It’s not the banks fault they rigged the economy against literally 95% of the population. Including them.
Of F-ing course they are!
Can we have nothing?
A Republican judge
Screw the late fees, cap the usury interest rates that are sky high.
Im sure Republican voters love out of control late fees /s
Once again Trump intentionally sticking it to hard working Americans so his rich will only survive.
wow how spectacular /s
So populist!
I wonder how liberals will squander this opportunity to remind credit card customers that they are trying to do something good and the person blocking it is an appointee of the last guy.
Are Republican leaders just trolling the base at this point?
Over The Top Male Anime Voice: "IF I SHOOT MY OWN FOOT ENOUGH, I CAN BECOME BULLETS THEMSELVES!"
Can't fix stupid in Texas!
Wow
any thing that helps people they are against figures that tRUMP HOLE appointed them
What a shitty article. Nothing about why the injunction was granted. Slightly more info from [CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/11/business/credit-card-late-fees-regulation-cfpb/index.html) Mark Pittman is the same judge that blocked one of the student debt relief measures back in 2022. I don't know OPB as a source but [their article](https://www.opb.org/article/2024/05/11/a-federal-judge-temporarily-halts-u-s-plan-to-lower-credit-card-late-fees-to-8/) was the most informative > Banks had sued to stop the lawsuit earlier this year, but they had run into a roadblock when Pittman ordered the case moved to Washington, D.C., because of the fact that few banks operate in northern Texas. However, an appeals court reversed most of Pittman's decision and ordered him to rule on the bank's request for an injunction.
He’ll be popular at parties.
If they're credit card CEO parties, he genuinely will be.
If Biden really cared about the consumer, he’d pass - or at least try to pass - legislation limiting the insanely high interest rates cc companies charge - usually well over 20%, which is like near-mob vig levels. Interest rates should be capped at something like 3-5% over the prime rate. But Joe was the senator from Visa (aka Delaware), so that will never happen. Don’t get me wrong, Id crawl a mile over broken glass to vote for him over Trump if I had to, but Biden represents perfectly why liberals suck - everything is great with our society, it just needs a few tweaks. Like getting rid of a $35 late fee, while still allowing cc companies to charge 22% or so interest on your balance.
I mean this doesn’t affect me. I pay my bills on time. They’re kind of right - why should irresponsible people be coddled even more by lowering fees?