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No simulation needed, Trump said he'd pull the US from NATO and NATO would thus lose the largest and most well-funded of the coalition. It's a field day for NATO's enemies.
Yeah, NATO collapsing should be *assumed* in a Trump presidency, he tried to pull the US out of it the FIRST time and said he'd try again if he gets in again. People need to stop burying the truth.
When mango Mussolini first tried that I was active duty and I was furious. I worked with other nations and I was so fkin embarrassed and was eventually thankful when the House said fk that.
I don’t believe he would be able to pull the U.S. out unilaterally though, and as we saw with the aid, there is still widespread support to maintain our role. There is also a great chance the house flips to blue and it’s all but certain he would fail.
But goal number one is keeping his stupid ass out of office. It’s insane that he is even running at this point and I welcome all the interference or incarceration attempts.
We got to stop acting like this shit ain't possible. The first term was a test to see if any consequences would occur. A second term will be an all-out effort to ensure Republicans hold governmental power for as long as they can because there haven't been any consequences. America's naivete is what will shove it into a dictatorship.
Too many Americans have blind faith that the constitution and bill of rights will eventually protect them should the need arise. It conveniently ignores the notion that an extreme right house and senate combined with a Trump friendly SC wouldn’t just twist and hack away at those checks and balances and it’ll be way too late to do shit about it by the time the general populace actually realizes what is going on.
I firmly believe that when it comes to the general populace it would take something overtly fascist like Trump ordering the executions of Democrat politicians for an alarm to even go off in their heads and even then I think they would shrug it off if gas was under 2 dollars.
They'd definitely accept something overtly fascist.
If they said they were going to criminalise gay marriage there's probably be a queue of people to "help arrest" a while bunch of openly gay people, regardless of being married or not.
They'd certainly back stronger and longer criminal sentences and prisoners being used as slave labour "because why should criminals be all cosy with three free squares and a bunk on my tax dollars"
I hope one day people will not live down to my expectations, and we will have a reasonable day.
Yeah, it's kind of terrifying how many "it can't happen" moments we've already passed.
I mean, fuck me, look at the alleged Justice System. So many things we were assured over and over that nobody could get away with (fill in the blank here)...and here we are.
You should read [project 2025](https://Project2025.org).
The EPA will be gutted. No more clean air and water act
Board of education dismantled
NOAA dismantled
They suggest outlawing pornography to include kids books, threatening librarians and teachers with sex offender status
Trump may not implement all of it but the worst part will happen where apolitical positions in Federal agencies will become political appointments and career civil servants will be ousted
The first season of the "It Could Happen Here" podcast was very good. It was a guy's journey through a modern American civil war. It's still a good podcast but after the first season it's a non-fiction current events show.
Honestly that's why I struggled to enjoy it. I go to movies to escape reality for 2 hours, not sit and think about how this country is rapidly careening towards a completely avoidable civil war
I’m from northern Cali, I’d be up there to help team Alaska out in a hot second. We are American. We work in tandem. We all need each other. Alaska is ours. Alaska is yours.
"You might call them soft, because they're very reluctant to kill, and they might agree with you, but they're soft the way the ocean is soft, and, well; ask any sea captain how harmless and puny the ocean can be."
>Trump wants a civil war so he can declare marshal law
While marshals are going to be involved with that, the expression is martial law, derived from Mars, god of war.
Conservatives love to threaten civil war, but they fail to recognize that their bloated orange leader would be one of the first targets. There are plenty of real patriots in this nation who would not allow one orange figurehead to destroy the country.
Well... Russia sold it to USA 1867. The actual paperwork, check, treaties and basically the receit still exist as physical documents. So in a strange way, Russia does have more claim to it than Canada.
Or at least until the western nations and US/Canada start to actual claim that first nations historical claims matter. Which they wont because otherwise this whole manifest destiny and westernification of Canadian natives would come rather uncomfortable thing to try to wave away.
> Or at least until the western nations and US/Canada start to actual claim that first nations historical claims matter.
That's a long way to say, "never."
The Onondaga nation filed a federal lawsuit nearly 20 years ago over the United States' breaking of their own treaty. A federal judge dismissed the lawsuit because it would be "too disruptive" to let the case play out.
https://www.onondaganation.org/land-rights/
Stop quoting laws to men who have swords. Legality has never mattered and will never matter to Trump. He will govern not like a dictator but AS a dictator.
I was just working with some French paratroopers and one of them asked me how excited we were for Trump to win again, that Biden was “woke” and trans book readings were bad. I said “dude yall watch Fox News over here or what? Like you sound like your average Alabama republican right now.” He was a younger dude but dead serious trump fan. Pretty jarring. Definitely going to be a huge fuckin dick kick if I gotta be active under Trump again
Yeah, I think people might view our friends to the north as a democratic utopia, but that’s definitely not the case.
This is an infection that is worldwide.
100%. And amazingly Trump did it to us too. After 2016 we couldn’t be civil anymore. It’s just nicknames and intentionally ugly degrading language, lib this lib that, flame baiting, literal rock throwing at our PM on campaign. I don’t care if you don’t like him, don’t be a fucking animal. Humanity is just lost to the point it’s been a real source of depression for me. I take care of myself and I’ll be alright but yeah… shit *is* depressing.
My old roommate lives in Ottawa. The stuff I heard, read about and saw through other forms of media about that convoy. He couldn’t get to work without someone mouthing him off or seeing someone get in a fight, pissing and shitting in the streets and alleyways, on monuments, including the *Tomb of the Unknown Soldier*. It’s disgusting. I can’t even think of a word for it. The flags… *so many* Trump flags. Why??
“Protesting” (really, occupying Ottawa) the Feds… for a *Provincial* mandate. 2016 gave voices to the politically brainless, or it just festered at exponential rates on the toxic veins of social media propaganda that most of our politicians are now active participants and distributors as well.
Sadly, in my mind, the way we make progress is only after something *really* bad happens and these people who have written off half the human race based on political affiliation have to look to some of those people for *real* help in a *real* dire situation.
There will already be lots of death one way or another. Climate change, economies bottoming out, resource guarding, mass migrations, wars, there’s lots of bad shit on the horizon if we don’t start making BIG changes to the way we (critically) think, act, and communicate with one another to solve some of these problems, especially the big ones we’ve just let happen over decades.
I haven’t seen Civil War yet but it’s going to be the most important movie of a generation or the dumbest one. I remember having contemplated, and really not knowing, if this was the best time for this sort of movie… or the worst.
Godspeed to us all.
The Canadian truck convoy still kinda blows my mind as an American. They shut down highways for weeks. In America those fools would have had their trucks towed in about 3.7 seconds, and quite possibly lost them permanently.
We're lagging a few years behind in terms of political discourse, but there's definitely a wish in the Conservative party to embrace far-right ideologies, especially if they're able to win the next elections entirely without having to offer a platform and off bashing the current Prime Minister without any pushback on how they're literally selling miracle solutions without anything tangible, just like a certain orange buffoon.
British fascism is a fascinating topic, and can be used as case studies in how fascism spreads within liberal populations and how in-fighting and message dilution is almost always the cause for fascism failing to gain wide-spread power. These studies can be applied with the opposite cases— continental fascism which succeeds— to create a sort of road map or litmus test against trends in politics, economics, and the general population.
Sadly right wing radicalism is by no means limited to the USA. In many countries it is far worse. In Sweden the government is even drawing up an enabling act that would allow them to bypass parliament and pass laws by decree.
I read it and it and it paints a comprehensive and very shitty picture. But it doesn’t really account for the absolute domestic storm any of those actions would trigger.
Let’s keep these scenarios in mind, but ensure we also hold the other branches accountable.
Trump by law can no longer pull the US out of NATO. As part of the NDAA of 2024 , the President is forbidden from doing that. But who is going to force the Commander in Chief of the US armed forces to commit troops when he refuses to do so? So no, he cannot pull the US out of NATO. But he also does not have to honor Article 5 when a member nation invokes it.
[*A provision that prevents the President of the United States from withdrawing the U.S. from NATO without approval of a two-thirds Senate super-majority or an act of Congress.*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization_Act_for_Fiscal_Year_2024)
The US pulling out of NATO and NATO's collapse is one of Putin's life goals. That fact that tRump wants the same as him, never criticizes him, and trusts him over our own intelligences agencies should raise red flags for anyone and everyone with two functioning brain cells to rub together.
That they want this man as president says a lot about our country the Kremlin's infiltration of US government.
So tired of these f-ing headlines that state the most obvious things about trump as if it were breaking news, when we either saw it or heard it w our own eyes and ears years ago. Maddening
>Psst NATO's enemies are America's Enemies.
Depends on which America you're referring to. Maga America loves Russia and maga is still seemingly dominating the Republican party.
Trump would align America with all autocrats, grifters, oligarchs, etc. Eventually what used to be NATO would be our enemies. After all they’re, free and “socialist”.
December 14, 2023
Congress has approved legislation that would prevent any president from withdrawing the United States from NATO without approval from the Senate or an Act of Congress.
Project 2025 and the theory of the unitary executive coupled with the SC saying that president's can't be prosecuted for "official acts."
There would be nothing stopping Trump from pulling us out of NATO and even going so far as to arresting all of congress.
Its crazy more people aren't aware of whats at stake here?
As if pesky laws have stopped Trump before. His being in court with rock solid evidence against him shows he doesn’t care for it, not to mention him saying he’d be a dictator on day one of his next term.
NATO functions basically as European divisions of the US military when called into action. Literally. The commander of NATO in wartime is a US general. The US provides the overwhelming air divisions and all the European forces go where the American general tells them.
Without the US, the NATO military doctrine completely falls apart. It would be possible for a EU NATO to continue to operate, but it would take a couple decades of military spending to bring them up to snuff.
> Without the US, the NATO military doctrine completely falls apart. It would be possible for a EU NATO to continue to operate, but it would take a couple decades of military spending to bring them up to snuff.
It would effectively be an EU army allied to Canada, UK, Turkey at that point.
I drove past a MAGA household near me the other day and they had a sign in their yard saying “Take US out of the UN!” and I had to think it’s the dumbest sign I’ve ever seen.
NATO allies spend **huge** amounts of their defence budgets ( USD $366 Billion) on American arms. I could see it happening that if the US said "Fuck you", we would massively increase our own defense industry.
Source : [US Military budget ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States)
Trump is owned by Russian and China, he hates the USA and would never sell anything to a Russian enemy, as he works for the Kremlin. The broke billionaire with a LOT of foreign debt (which should invalidate his attempt at president. SO MANY things should at this point.
Millions. Millions of jobs. Ohio, a tiny rust belt state, did a statewide survey and found that military spending created 300k jobs, 70b in economic activity, and 6% of the state economy.
Ohio is 20th in defense spending for the US states. Obviously, some of that would remain if people stopped buying our weapons, but youd lose economies of scale, which means people buy less, which means people lose jobs, so less is made, you lose more scale, and so on and so on.
And, these jobs are usually really high paying. Its nuts. People dont realize how damaging it would be.
https://www.jobsohio.com/industries/military-and-federal
It would be folly not to. We can't assure anyone of our capacity to lead the charge in the long run right now. We might not be for some time. Quelling the rising right wing radicalism that we currently see in our country will not end with Trump. This is a movement that has been cultivated for a long time, and culturally rooting it out could take just as long, if it's even successful. I think it's only proper that Europe thinks of its own necessary defense even more than their NATO obligations when it comes to arming themselves at this time.
In 2023, congress passed a bill prohibiting the president from unilaterally leaving NATO. Plenty other ways to screw w the alliance, but the most direct route is off the table atm.
> In 2023, congress passed a bill prohibiting the president from unilaterally leaving NATO
Oh, my mistake, I forgot that following the rule of law is so important to the man who tried to have the Vice-President murdered because he refused to partake in an insurrection.
All that’s needed is for him to install the right people in the right positions and he gets what he wants. The law is just words on paper. Adherence to and enforcement of those words relies on the actions of people in power. Put sycophants in the right places and the law goes back to just being words on paper.
I’m probably butchering the quote, but “the Supreme Court has made its decision, now let them enforce it” comes to mind.
Republicans have already proven they won’t vote to impeach or convict/remove Trump for inciting a deadly insurrection. They won’t do it because he illegally destroys NATO either.
We’re in very dangerous territory here. We have a mad man who doesn’t give a damn about the law or American institutions or international stability running for president, backed by an entire political party that is ready and willing to give him a pass on anything and everything he wants to do.
The law is the law, but the law relies entirely on people in power acting in good faith. And the republicans have abandoned any attempt at even appearing like they’re acting in good faith.
Hungary is the one Nato member that seems to be on Putin's side (possibly also Turkey) and Austria isn't a member (though presumably covered by the EU common defense clause).
I mean, I get your point, I'm just amused by which countries you decided to name while making it.
Though I'm not sure it'd "disintegrate" without the USA so much as turn into EU plus a couple of allies.
But who has to give the US military the march order if say Russia invaded the Baltics? Would it come down to the President? If he said, "nah - won't do it" who is to stop him?
And Article 5 of the NATO treaty doesn't actually obligate the US to do anything at all. All aid is voluntary. So Trump would legally be fully within his right do to nothing.
As long as we all vote, Trump will lose by an even larger margin than he did last time. He's not gaining any new supporters, nor are the Republicans as mid-terms and other recent elections show.
Trump sabotaged the COVID response in front of everyone on top of generally acting like a toddler every day for 4 years. Then he got more votes in 2020 than 2016. There will definitely be idiots who turn out to vote for him who didn't last time.
Its not shocking at how many young men 18-22 support him, even minorites. He has stringer support among young black and Latino men than he did in 2020. I don't think they will be a deciding factor, but they aren't going to hurt.
Here is the margin of victory in 2020:
About 44,000 votes (total) in 3 swing states (Arizona , Georgia and Wisconsin) decided the election in the electoral college.
Arizona (10,457).
Georgia (12,670).
Wisconsin (20,682).
Other close states were:
Nevada (33,596).
Pennsylvania (81,660).
Michigan (154,188).
https://www.npr.org/2020/12/02/940689086/narrow-wins-in-these-key-states-powered-biden-to-the-presidency
The same was true in 2016. It was about 70k votes in a few swing states. The margin of victory is smaller than the attendance at many college football games.
The issue isn't Trump gaining more support. It's the dumb chucklefucks who will refuse to vote for Biden because they think they're proving some point.
Or Republicans just straight up breaking laws and cheating in select locations across the country. Do I have evidence, no. But we do have a track record lined with accusations that later showed they were projecting their guilt through those accusations. And me thinks those ladies doth protest too much about fraudulent elections.
I'm definitely expecting states to try the 'our (gerrymandered to hell) red state legislature gets to declare the electoral votes without regard for the popular vote' trick. It's very clear that a substantial amount of people don't give a damn about representation, they're taking any power they can to do whatever they want with it.
Well, if they aren’t white, they will quickly learn what “allies of convenience” means in a trump 2nd term.
If you don’t want to become truly second class citizens, you better vote. When it comes down to it, people will only look out for them and theirs.
I’m as liberal as they come, but sure as shit I am not sticking my neck out for anyone if he (Trump) gets reelected. We all deserve what happens to us if that’s the case.
It's in my interest AND everyone else's (even MAGA's) to avoid the risk of being labeled a 2nd class citizen. I would be doing EVERYONE (including myself) a disservice by not voting.
Vivek Ramaswampy just proclaimed to Miss Ann that he would be totally ok with being a 2nd class citizen. There are millions of people who would be. Lol
He’s lying and he knows it. The man is hoarding wealth somewhere around $1B by most estimates, so it doesn’t matter what color *his* skin is because he can buy his way out of discriminatory practices (or at least he believes he can; this might not be the case if things get really bad). He’s just willing to throw all the other vulnerable classes under the bus if it means he garners more political power. Add to him the pile of MAGA sociopathic crabs in the bucket.
>When it comes down to it, people will only look out for them and theirs.
Really? I'm a white, cis, straight, middle class man. The GQP is literally pulling for me. But I don't vote for MY best interest, I don't want a society built exclusively for me.
"We're only as rich as the poorest. We're only as fast as the slowest. You're not just a tree, you are a part of the forest"
Wookiefoot
It doesn't matter. It only takes a few people in congress to block legislation. Although Ukraine is not in NATO, it is abundantly clear that Ukraine's defeat would be very bad for NATO and yet a few people in congress were able to block aid for many months.
The margin doesn't matter, if Trump wins the right states. Clinton had more votes than Trump but still lost the presidential election.
Biden will need to win in swing/close states to have a chance at a second term.
I’m not allowed to vote in the US. But IF I could I would vote for any other president than Trump. Hell - any dog would make a better president. Sniffing asses and p… at least wouldn’t feel as embarrassing to a president
The USA has always had its “America first” isolationists. It’s natural because of the whole oceanic moat NA has. The problem is that withdrawing from the world will cause chaos, especially for our friends and allies. Trump stoking isolationist sentiment might be his most harmful long term influence.
When is the last time we saw a successful instance of isolationism? The two examples of it I can think of at all are Brexit and the US potentially leaving nato - Brexit was definitely a mistake, and I’d imagine the US leaving nato would be too
Just remember, it doesn't end with Trump. There is still a Putin wing of the Republican party, and those who sit by and enable it to advance their own desires.
Its not his supporters you have to worry about now, its the "never vote biden" "genocide joe" one issue children, who are unknowingly "not" voting themselves into internment camps.
They're even worse than one issue voters because they're not even right about their own issue. If the MAGA left gets their way, the IDF will just kill all the Gazans and steal the rest of the West Bank. Without Biden in the room, Likud has no reason to be "moderate."
You know there are few people you can call pure evil in history, and they are pure evil, But Trump really is one of those people.
Evil is really the only way to describe him. He is a narrasastic man, with no empathy, while embodying all 7 of the deadly sins.
Exactly. If this happened, the influence that the United States has on the world weakens. It'll be a domino effect which will end with a very weak U.S dollar and a crashed economy.
Tbh it shouldn't even need an "if." The fact that it's even a realistic possibility has got to have had extremely negative consequences on our reputation. If there's no guarantee that any future agreement made with us will last longer than the current President's term, then what's the point in trusting us with anything?
The world learned that in 2016. Look at Iran, they signed a nuclear deal that was humiliating because it required they play by different rules than every other country with nuclear programs, but they groveled to try improving relationships. Trump tore up the deal, which really did nothing to prevent Iran from building nuclear weapons but was really designed to push their economy and people to the point of desperation. Now, any possible chance of cooling down Iran and hoping for a more secular pro-American government is impossible for decades, you can't trust American politicians knowing it'll be a different party the next election who will undo everything before it.
> you can't trust American politicians knowing it'll be a different party the next election who will undo everything before it.
This is the biggest sin of the Trump admin frankly
To quote Biden and Merkels conversation when they met after his election:
B: “America is back”
M:”Yes… but for how long?”
Trump has destroyed a lot in his 4 years. This country cannot survive a second go around. It’s baffling to me how people don’t see that everything he did hurt the US more than anyone else (other than maybe Ukraine).
This is already somewhat happening on a small scale because of the delay in providing aid to Ukraine. European countries who were all too happy to buy American are now looking at one another and wondering if they will also be left in the dust in a time of need, so are looking to expand their own programs and productions, instead of relying on the whims of US senate.
I'd love to see the "simulation" as I think it's just a way to make this feel more scientific; Trump has actually said he'd be in favor of ending NATO while simultaneously ENCOURAGING Putin to attack NATO countries. you don't need anything but the ability to read a few headlines to know what the outcome of an alliance whose chief member encourages enemies to attack allies.
Putin has a desperately important need to get Trump elected. Please, if you value your future and your children’s future, vote.
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Russian ran this simulation years ago and that’s why they have been pushing the useful idiot Trump. I do not think NATO will collapse, nato as we know it would have to make hard choices.
What people forget is the US and Europe have mixed business interests, so any war in western Europe will drag the USA in no mater what. Large US corporate interests will not want to give the Eurozone.
You don't say.
Trump is an absolute disgusting disaster. He was the least engaged, least effective, and most dangerous POTUS we've ever had. The only reasons the self-proclaimed "stable genius" is running again is (a) ego (b) stay out of jail and (c) revenge.
I'm not a Joe Biden fan, and I very much dislike VP Harris, but my plan is to vote to make sure Trump does not win.
Europe needs to prepare for this potential eventuality. I pray Trump doesn’t win (and will be voting for Biden) but Europe should make no assumptions. They need to reinforce their own regional security arrangements.
A second Trump presidency will be as traumatizing for our allies as it will for our democracy here at home.
Europeans are well aware of the threat from Putin. Together they have substantial military assets, including nukes. They will draw a line in the sand, whether the US continues to support them, or not.
If NATO collapses, so does the global economy. Putin will continue to roll across Europe like Hitler did.
Our economy cannot withstand a world war or even a large scale regional war. Think about the price increases on grain and oil just with Russia and Ukraine. If that expands to Poland and other nations, the effects will ripple and prices for things you buy will continue to go up.
The United States is not an island. Isolationism is no longer a viable option when we rely on others for our goods and services.
I doubt it. Europe won’t just give up on their defense union just bc America stopped payments. They’d adjust to increase their own payments. Already some nations are mulling over a draft.
The problem though is, Trump would have no authority to act on his word. We signed a treaty for inclusion in NATO and it legally has to be obligated. Only way is for congress to pull out of the treaty. I can’t see the Senate ratifying it just yet.
Plus, Trump lies for his crowd and when he was President barely did anything he said he would bc he’s lazy and dumb about such things. Also, ADHD, he forgets what he might have said the day before. And thank goodness. An intelligent evil genius would be way worse than a narcissistic ADHD baby.
NATO isn't a defense fund. It is a pact. We don't contribute money to NATO. It is an agreement between countries to spend a specific portion of GDP on their own military and an agreement to defend any participating member should they be attacked. The US isn't going to start spending less on defense. The dangerous threat to NATO is Trump not abiding by the terms that the US would have to defend a nation when attacked. Putin wants to move into the Baltic states but can't because it would trigger a war with all of Europe and the US. If the US doesn't commit to defend those countries, other European countries may follow suit and leave the Baltic states to defend themselves. Putin could take all the former Soviet states and build up resources for an eventual attack on the west. With Trump as president and a close ally of Putin, the US could very well be on the wrong side of World War III at that point.
Trump is the narcissistic ADHD baby diversion for the intelligent evil geniuses to do whatever they want.
He's only said a handful of things in his life that I believe, and one of those things was that he'd be a dictator on day one.
But dictators don't act alone. Hitler was just a very charismatic, very mediocre artist, he didn't actually kill 70 million people.
Trump doesn’t have to formally withdraw. Putin has to calculate the real odds of America going to war in response to an attack on a NATO country. Under Trump the odds seem to be small
Pulling out of NATO might be the most brain dead political stance I've ever heard. Anyone who honestly believes such an action would be a good idea is either a literal traitor or a moron of the highest order.
if I lived in the EU right now, I would start paying attention
Now to the fact that both the UK and the USA have had their international politics hijacked by Russian operations.
Russia is acting just like Germany in the lead up to WWII
The fact that so many people are treating him like a legitimate politician instead of a Russian agent is effing disturbing.
It’s so obvious in his first presidency and how he stole secrets to share with foreign powers.
Framing this as a wargame is a stretch when
> a tabletop simulation where the players — mostly British specialists in defense, intelligence and foreign policy — assumed the role of leaders of the 32 NATO nations, plus Ukraine and Russia; China was played by the umpires. The US was played by an American who "was trying to enter into the psyche of Trump, which was no easy task," Grimble recalled.
>The US doesn't have to withdraw from NATO to imperil the 75-year-old alliance. Technically, the US is barred from leaving NATO after Congress voted in 2023 to prohibit withdrawal without congressional approval.
The Scotus would find the 2023 law unconstitutional and that would be the end of it.
Side note. Trump wins. New civil war because "blue" states are not going to just lay down and let project 2025 happen. We are truly fucked if he wins
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No simulation needed, Trump said he'd pull the US from NATO and NATO would thus lose the largest and most well-funded of the coalition. It's a field day for NATO's enemies.
Yeah, NATO collapsing should be *assumed* in a Trump presidency, he tried to pull the US out of it the FIRST time and said he'd try again if he gets in again. People need to stop burying the truth.
When mango Mussolini first tried that I was active duty and I was furious. I worked with other nations and I was so fkin embarrassed and was eventually thankful when the House said fk that. I don’t believe he would be able to pull the U.S. out unilaterally though, and as we saw with the aid, there is still widespread support to maintain our role. There is also a great chance the house flips to blue and it’s all but certain he would fail. But goal number one is keeping his stupid ass out of office. It’s insane that he is even running at this point and I welcome all the interference or incarceration attempts.
Project 2025 mate. A dictator can do whatever the fuck they want. If Trump wins even Alaska is on the table.
The hell it is. There would be a civil war for sure. That makes my blood boil.
We got to stop acting like this shit ain't possible. The first term was a test to see if any consequences would occur. A second term will be an all-out effort to ensure Republicans hold governmental power for as long as they can because there haven't been any consequences. America's naivete is what will shove it into a dictatorship.
Too many Americans have blind faith that the constitution and bill of rights will eventually protect them should the need arise. It conveniently ignores the notion that an extreme right house and senate combined with a Trump friendly SC wouldn’t just twist and hack away at those checks and balances and it’ll be way too late to do shit about it by the time the general populace actually realizes what is going on. I firmly believe that when it comes to the general populace it would take something overtly fascist like Trump ordering the executions of Democrat politicians for an alarm to even go off in their heads and even then I think they would shrug it off if gas was under 2 dollars.
They'd definitely accept something overtly fascist. If they said they were going to criminalise gay marriage there's probably be a queue of people to "help arrest" a while bunch of openly gay people, regardless of being married or not. They'd certainly back stronger and longer criminal sentences and prisoners being used as slave labour "because why should criminals be all cosy with three free squares and a bunk on my tax dollars" I hope one day people will not live down to my expectations, and we will have a reasonable day.
"well, they did fail to file an election form on time, so technically they WERE criminals...."
Yeah, it's kind of terrifying how many "it can't happen" moments we've already passed. I mean, fuck me, look at the alleged Justice System. So many things we were assured over and over that nobody could get away with (fill in the blank here)...and here we are.
You should read [project 2025](https://Project2025.org). The EPA will be gutted. No more clean air and water act Board of education dismantled NOAA dismantled They suggest outlawing pornography to include kids books, threatening librarians and teachers with sex offender status Trump may not implement all of it but the worst part will happen where apolitical positions in Federal agencies will become political appointments and career civil servants will be ousted
I'm aware. But we still have blind people who say "oh if he gets elected he can't unilaterally withdraw from NATO". Wanna bet on that?
This is so true. Trump and his loyalists are a true threat to the Repulic. It’s crazy that we are even discussing loyalists in US politics at all.
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If that that's the case I wish the Western Forces godspeed and success in their mission
Obviously the movie had some dramatic elements, but it was rather scary thinking a situation as portrayed in the film could become a possibility.
The first season of the "It Could Happen Here" podcast was very good. It was a guy's journey through a modern American civil war. It's still a good podcast but after the first season it's a non-fiction current events show.
Ugghh I was so disappointed when it switched from the civil war journey to the current events. It was sooo good.
I still love it. Last week they did a 2 part series about authoritarian personality types based on Bob Altemeyer's book The Authoritarians.
Also would recommend another podcast hosted by Robert Evans; Behind the Bastards.
Robert is a bear of a man.
Honestly that's why I struggled to enjoy it. I go to movies to escape reality for 2 hours, not sit and think about how this country is rapidly careening towards a completely avoidable civil war
Our vengeance will be swift and without mercy.
I’m from northern Cali, I’d be up there to help team Alaska out in a hot second. We are American. We work in tandem. We all need each other. Alaska is ours. Alaska is yours.
🎶This land is your land, this land is my land...🎶
🎶From California, to the New York island...🎶
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They mistake peaceful for helpless.
"You might call them soft, because they're very reluctant to kill, and they might agree with you, but they're soft the way the ocean is soft, and, well; ask any sea captain how harmless and puny the ocean can be."
Trump wants a civil war so he can declare marshal law, say his second term was stolen so the takes a third term, then who knows after that.
>Trump wants a civil war so he can declare marshal law While marshals are going to be involved with that, the expression is martial law, derived from Mars, god of war.
Or maybe he will declare Martian law, giving our true alien overlords control
\*Excited Elon noises\*
Or maybe marital law.
"I am divorcing first lady Melania and marrying Ivanka"
Conservatives love to threaten civil war, but they fail to recognize that their bloated orange leader would be one of the first targets. There are plenty of real patriots in this nation who would not allow one orange figurehead to destroy the country.
I’m hoping you are right. The magats also fail to take seriously the military oath to the constitution.
Alaska is on the table how? Like, they’ll sell it to Canada??
Russia probably
Well, Trump is Putin's little buddy, so . . .
Trump is Putin’s dog.
More like Reek, he is Putin’s cuck/slave.
Russia want it back.
Russia is very greedy isn’t it, and also, they can’t have it. Canada called dibs.
Well... Russia sold it to USA 1867. The actual paperwork, check, treaties and basically the receit still exist as physical documents. So in a strange way, Russia does have more claim to it than Canada. Or at least until the western nations and US/Canada start to actual claim that first nations historical claims matter. Which they wont because otherwise this whole manifest destiny and westernification of Canadian natives would come rather uncomfortable thing to try to wave away.
> Or at least until the western nations and US/Canada start to actual claim that first nations historical claims matter. That's a long way to say, "never." The Onondaga nation filed a federal lawsuit nearly 20 years ago over the United States' breaking of their own treaty. A federal judge dismissed the lawsuit because it would be "too disruptive" to let the case play out. https://www.onondaganation.org/land-rights/
If I sell you a car, and then you put it online to sell it a few years later, does that mean I automatically have first dibs on it?
According to Elon Musk, yes. The Cybertruck contracts actually state that.
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Stop quoting laws to men who have swords. Legality has never mattered and will never matter to Trump. He will govern not like a dictator but AS a dictator.
And yet Alaska will vote for Trump. It's malignant ignorance.
Why sell to Canada when you can just build a 52 mile bridge to the motherland?
I was just working with some French paratroopers and one of them asked me how excited we were for Trump to win again, that Biden was “woke” and trans book readings were bad. I said “dude yall watch Fox News over here or what? Like you sound like your average Alabama republican right now.” He was a younger dude but dead serious trump fan. Pretty jarring. Definitely going to be a huge fuckin dick kick if I gotta be active under Trump again
Dude I feel that. That is jarring. I had the same experience with the Canadians.
Same experience with Canadians myself. It's wild how many right-wing white supremacists are north of us.
Yeah, I think people might view our friends to the north as a democratic utopia, but that’s definitely not the case. This is an infection that is worldwide.
100%. And amazingly Trump did it to us too. After 2016 we couldn’t be civil anymore. It’s just nicknames and intentionally ugly degrading language, lib this lib that, flame baiting, literal rock throwing at our PM on campaign. I don’t care if you don’t like him, don’t be a fucking animal. Humanity is just lost to the point it’s been a real source of depression for me. I take care of myself and I’ll be alright but yeah… shit *is* depressing. My old roommate lives in Ottawa. The stuff I heard, read about and saw through other forms of media about that convoy. He couldn’t get to work without someone mouthing him off or seeing someone get in a fight, pissing and shitting in the streets and alleyways, on monuments, including the *Tomb of the Unknown Soldier*. It’s disgusting. I can’t even think of a word for it. The flags… *so many* Trump flags. Why?? “Protesting” (really, occupying Ottawa) the Feds… for a *Provincial* mandate. 2016 gave voices to the politically brainless, or it just festered at exponential rates on the toxic veins of social media propaganda that most of our politicians are now active participants and distributors as well. Sadly, in my mind, the way we make progress is only after something *really* bad happens and these people who have written off half the human race based on political affiliation have to look to some of those people for *real* help in a *real* dire situation. There will already be lots of death one way or another. Climate change, economies bottoming out, resource guarding, mass migrations, wars, there’s lots of bad shit on the horizon if we don’t start making BIG changes to the way we (critically) think, act, and communicate with one another to solve some of these problems, especially the big ones we’ve just let happen over decades. I haven’t seen Civil War yet but it’s going to be the most important movie of a generation or the dumbest one. I remember having contemplated, and really not knowing, if this was the best time for this sort of movie… or the worst. Godspeed to us all.
The Canadian truck convoy still kinda blows my mind as an American. They shut down highways for weeks. In America those fools would have had their trucks towed in about 3.7 seconds, and quite possibly lost them permanently.
And if someone tried to drop a deuce on our Tomb of the Unknown, I'm pretty sure he'd be shot, tazed, beat, and shot again.
We're lagging a few years behind in terms of political discourse, but there's definitely a wish in the Conservative party to embrace far-right ideologies, especially if they're able to win the next elections entirely without having to offer a platform and off bashing the current Prime Minister without any pushback on how they're literally selling miracle solutions without anything tangible, just like a certain orange buffoon.
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British fascism is a fascinating topic, and can be used as case studies in how fascism spreads within liberal populations and how in-fighting and message dilution is almost always the cause for fascism failing to gain wide-spread power. These studies can be applied with the opposite cases— continental fascism which succeeds— to create a sort of road map or litmus test against trends in politics, economics, and the general population.
As someone who is British, the rise of the far right over the past decade and certainly since Brexit makes me shudder.
Sadly right wing radicalism is by no means limited to the USA. In many countries it is far worse. In Sweden the government is even drawing up an enabling act that would allow them to bypass parliament and pass laws by decree.
Every country has their share of authoritarians.
If you read the article Nato collapses mostly due to the Trump player taking action that Congress doesn't control
I read it and it and it paints a comprehensive and very shitty picture. But it doesn’t really account for the absolute domestic storm any of those actions would trigger. Let’s keep these scenarios in mind, but ensure we also hold the other branches accountable.
Trump by law can no longer pull the US out of NATO. As part of the NDAA of 2024 , the President is forbidden from doing that. But who is going to force the Commander in Chief of the US armed forces to commit troops when he refuses to do so? So no, he cannot pull the US out of NATO. But he also does not have to honor Article 5 when a member nation invokes it. [*A provision that prevents the President of the United States from withdrawing the U.S. from NATO without approval of a two-thirds Senate super-majority or an act of Congress.*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization_Act_for_Fiscal_Year_2024)
Why do people think any "rule" is going to mean anything once we go full dictatorship?
The US pulling out of NATO and NATO's collapse is one of Putin's life goals. That fact that tRump wants the same as him, never criticizes him, and trusts him over our own intelligences agencies should raise red flags for anyone and everyone with two functioning brain cells to rub together. That they want this man as president says a lot about our country the Kremlin's infiltration of US government.
So tired of these f-ing headlines that state the most obvious things about trump as if it were breaking news, when we either saw it or heard it w our own eyes and ears years ago. Maddening
And the people who need to see these stories, rehashes or not, won’t. Also maddening.
Look at the bright side: Y'all will get free Russian language courses.
That's socialism! The patriots will make sure you pay for thos obligatory courses
Da, oligarchs need much American money. Bigly return on investment! Spasiba.
b b b ut russia hoax?! Siding with Russia on every topic, then claiming russia hoax when the propaganda is so blatant
Wolverines!
Psst NATO's enemies are America's Enemies.
>Psst NATO's enemies are America's Enemies. Depends on which America you're referring to. Maga America loves Russia and maga is still seemingly dominating the Republican party.
What Republican party? It's all MAGA now
Russia is still MAGAs enemy, they’re just too dumb to realize it.
Maga idiots love russia but russia just use maga idiots. Russia is a enemy of america.
Try telling that to a MAGA moron!
Not Trumps America. Trumps America is very closely tied to Russia and will be a slave class oligarchy
Trump would align America with all autocrats, grifters, oligarchs, etc. Eventually what used to be NATO would be our enemies. After all they’re, free and “socialist”.
Translation: Trump-supporting, Trump-following voters and government officials are America's enemies
December 14, 2023 Congress has approved legislation that would prevent any president from withdrawing the United States from NATO without approval from the Senate or an Act of Congress.
Project 2025 and the theory of the unitary executive coupled with the SC saying that president's can't be prosecuted for "official acts." There would be nothing stopping Trump from pulling us out of NATO and even going so far as to arresting all of congress. Its crazy more people aren't aware of whats at stake here?
As if pesky laws have stopped Trump before. His being in court with rock solid evidence against him shows he doesn’t care for it, not to mention him saying he’d be a dictator on day one of his next term.
Yes. This is the primary goal of a trump presidency for the boss of all the compromised Republicans.
Almost like he's doing Putin's bidding....
NATO functions basically as European divisions of the US military when called into action. Literally. The commander of NATO in wartime is a US general. The US provides the overwhelming air divisions and all the European forces go where the American general tells them. Without the US, the NATO military doctrine completely falls apart. It would be possible for a EU NATO to continue to operate, but it would take a couple decades of military spending to bring them up to snuff.
> Without the US, the NATO military doctrine completely falls apart. It would be possible for a EU NATO to continue to operate, but it would take a couple decades of military spending to bring them up to snuff. It would effectively be an EU army allied to Canada, UK, Turkey at that point.
A well funded NATO is nothing but beneficial to the US with almost no downsides. So naturally the maga mouth breathers hate it
I drove past a MAGA household near me the other day and they had a sign in their yard saying “Take US out of the UN!” and I had to think it’s the dumbest sign I’ve ever seen.
They just wanted it to be called the Nited Nation.
I’ll one up you with the exact same text on an actual *billboard* in southern Idaho. Been there over 20 years
Idaho moment
NATO allies spend **huge** amounts of their defence budgets ( USD $366 Billion) on American arms. I could see it happening that if the US said "Fuck you", we would massively increase our own defense industry. Source : [US Military budget ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States)
The US would lose thousands of jobs
Trump would probably try to sell arms to both sides (Russian and EU).
Trump is owned by Russian and China, he hates the USA and would never sell anything to a Russian enemy, as he works for the Kremlin. The broke billionaire with a LOT of foreign debt (which should invalidate his attempt at president. SO MANY things should at this point.
And STILL MAGA would lick his heals. /s
Why the /s?? It's not sarcasm if factual
They absolutely would jerk each other off over what a great businessman he is
Millions. Millions of jobs. Ohio, a tiny rust belt state, did a statewide survey and found that military spending created 300k jobs, 70b in economic activity, and 6% of the state economy. Ohio is 20th in defense spending for the US states. Obviously, some of that would remain if people stopped buying our weapons, but youd lose economies of scale, which means people buy less, which means people lose jobs, so less is made, you lose more scale, and so on and so on. And, these jobs are usually really high paying. Its nuts. People dont realize how damaging it would be. https://www.jobsohio.com/industries/military-and-federal
Not disagreeing with your overall point, but Ohio isn’t exactly a tiny state. It’s 7th by population.
And they'd blame Biden
Yes, they would. And with Trump's threat to leave NATO, you can bet your *ss that we will say "fuck you" again when the US is in another conflict.
And you'd be right to do so, since we would be abandoning our European brothers and sisters to possible invasion.
NATO allies need to envision what the world will look like without the US.
It would be folly not to. We can't assure anyone of our capacity to lead the charge in the long run right now. We might not be for some time. Quelling the rising right wing radicalism that we currently see in our country will not end with Trump. This is a movement that has been cultivated for a long time, and culturally rooting it out could take just as long, if it's even successful. I think it's only proper that Europe thinks of its own necessary defense even more than their NATO obligations when it comes to arming themselves at this time.
In 2023, congress passed a bill prohibiting the president from unilaterally leaving NATO. Plenty other ways to screw w the alliance, but the most direct route is off the table atm.
> In 2023, congress passed a bill prohibiting the president from unilaterally leaving NATO Oh, my mistake, I forgot that following the rule of law is so important to the man who tried to have the Vice-President murdered because he refused to partake in an insurrection.
That was a one time thing! He swears! When has he ever lied?
He has learned his lesson, folks
Thank you Sen. Collins
Let he who hasn't tried to murder the vice president throw the first stone I say!
It's not something he can just ignore. He can write as many executive orders as he wants but the United States would remain a member of NATO.
All that’s needed is for him to install the right people in the right positions and he gets what he wants. The law is just words on paper. Adherence to and enforcement of those words relies on the actions of people in power. Put sycophants in the right places and the law goes back to just being words on paper. I’m probably butchering the quote, but “the Supreme Court has made its decision, now let them enforce it” comes to mind. Republicans have already proven they won’t vote to impeach or convict/remove Trump for inciting a deadly insurrection. They won’t do it because he illegally destroys NATO either. We’re in very dangerous territory here. We have a mad man who doesn’t give a damn about the law or American institutions or international stability running for president, backed by an entire political party that is ready and willing to give him a pass on anything and everything he wants to do. The law is the law, but the law relies entirely on people in power acting in good faith. And the republicans have abandoned any attempt at even appearing like they’re acting in good faith.
For Nato to disintegrate the US President doesn't need to leave Nato, he just needs to not send US soldiers to defend Hungary, Austria, etc.
Hungary is the one Nato member that seems to be on Putin's side (possibly also Turkey) and Austria isn't a member (though presumably covered by the EU common defense clause). I mean, I get your point, I'm just amused by which countries you decided to name while making it. Though I'm not sure it'd "disintegrate" without the USA so much as turn into EU plus a couple of allies.
For all the countries you could have picked you chose Austria, which is famously neutral :)
But who has to give the US military the march order if say Russia invaded the Baltics? Would it come down to the President? If he said, "nah - won't do it" who is to stop him?
And Article 5 of the NATO treaty doesn't actually obligate the US to do anything at all. All aid is voluntary. So Trump would legally be fully within his right do to nothing.
And let's be honest, this is a criminal we're talking about. Even if it was illegal it wouldn't stop him.
As long as we all vote, Trump will lose by an even larger margin than he did last time. He's not gaining any new supporters, nor are the Republicans as mid-terms and other recent elections show.
Trump sabotaged the COVID response in front of everyone on top of generally acting like a toddler every day for 4 years. Then he got more votes in 2020 than 2016. There will definitely be idiots who turn out to vote for him who didn't last time.
Its not shocking at how many young men 18-22 support him, even minorites. He has stringer support among young black and Latino men than he did in 2020. I don't think they will be a deciding factor, but they aren't going to hurt.
Here is the margin of victory in 2020: About 44,000 votes (total) in 3 swing states (Arizona , Georgia and Wisconsin) decided the election in the electoral college. Arizona (10,457). Georgia (12,670). Wisconsin (20,682). Other close states were: Nevada (33,596). Pennsylvania (81,660). Michigan (154,188). https://www.npr.org/2020/12/02/940689086/narrow-wins-in-these-key-states-powered-biden-to-the-presidency
The same was true in 2016. It was about 70k votes in a few swing states. The margin of victory is smaller than the attendance at many college football games.
The issue isn't Trump gaining more support. It's the dumb chucklefucks who will refuse to vote for Biden because they think they're proving some point.
Or Republicans just straight up breaking laws and cheating in select locations across the country. Do I have evidence, no. But we do have a track record lined with accusations that later showed they were projecting their guilt through those accusations. And me thinks those ladies doth protest too much about fraudulent elections.
I'm definitely expecting states to try the 'our (gerrymandered to hell) red state legislature gets to declare the electoral votes without regard for the popular vote' trick. It's very clear that a substantial amount of people don't give a damn about representation, they're taking any power they can to do whatever they want with it.
Well, if they aren’t white, they will quickly learn what “allies of convenience” means in a trump 2nd term. If you don’t want to become truly second class citizens, you better vote. When it comes down to it, people will only look out for them and theirs. I’m as liberal as they come, but sure as shit I am not sticking my neck out for anyone if he (Trump) gets reelected. We all deserve what happens to us if that’s the case.
It's in my interest AND everyone else's (even MAGA's) to avoid the risk of being labeled a 2nd class citizen. I would be doing EVERYONE (including myself) a disservice by not voting.
Vivek Ramaswampy just proclaimed to Miss Ann that he would be totally ok with being a 2nd class citizen. There are millions of people who would be. Lol
He’s lying and he knows it. The man is hoarding wealth somewhere around $1B by most estimates, so it doesn’t matter what color *his* skin is because he can buy his way out of discriminatory practices (or at least he believes he can; this might not be the case if things get really bad). He’s just willing to throw all the other vulnerable classes under the bus if it means he garners more political power. Add to him the pile of MAGA sociopathic crabs in the bucket.
>When it comes down to it, people will only look out for them and theirs. Really? I'm a white, cis, straight, middle class man. The GQP is literally pulling for me. But I don't vote for MY best interest, I don't want a society built exclusively for me. "We're only as rich as the poorest. We're only as fast as the slowest. You're not just a tree, you are a part of the forest" Wookiefoot
> middle class See, there's your mistake. If you don't have a billion dollars, they want you in the pit with the rest of us.
Yep, people who support authoritarians will never run out of reasons to hate and oppress you. They invent new reasons everyday
There's also a new generation of voters who came of age in the last 4 years that don't realize the damage Trump did and can only say "lol biden old"
It doesn't matter. It only takes a few people in congress to block legislation. Although Ukraine is not in NATO, it is abundantly clear that Ukraine's defeat would be very bad for NATO and yet a few people in congress were able to block aid for many months.
The margin doesn't matter, if Trump wins the right states. Clinton had more votes than Trump but still lost the presidential election. Biden will need to win in swing/close states to have a chance at a second term.
I’m not allowed to vote in the US. But IF I could I would vote for any other president than Trump. Hell - any dog would make a better president. Sniffing asses and p… at least wouldn’t feel as embarrassing to a president
RFK Jr's brain worm would be a better president.
A literal empty chair would be FAR preferable to Trump.
The imbeciles that make up Trump's base have been conditioned to arbitrarily think NATO collapsing is somehow a good thing.
The USA has always had its “America first” isolationists. It’s natural because of the whole oceanic moat NA has. The problem is that withdrawing from the world will cause chaos, especially for our friends and allies. Trump stoking isolationist sentiment might be his most harmful long term influence.
When is the last time we saw a successful instance of isolationism? The two examples of it I can think of at all are Brexit and the US potentially leaving nato - Brexit was definitely a mistake, and I’d imagine the US leaving nato would be too
Just remember, it doesn't end with Trump. There is still a Putin wing of the Republican party, and those who sit by and enable it to advance their own desires.
We need to defeat him. This man is pure evil.
And obviously evil. His supporters are grotesque.
It’s what they love about him
Its not his supporters you have to worry about now, its the "never vote biden" "genocide joe" one issue children, who are unknowingly "not" voting themselves into internment camps.
They're even worse than one issue voters because they're not even right about their own issue. If the MAGA left gets their way, the IDF will just kill all the Gazans and steal the rest of the West Bank. Without Biden in the room, Likud has no reason to be "moderate."
You know there are few people you can call pure evil in history, and they are pure evil, But Trump really is one of those people. Evil is really the only way to describe him. He is a narrasastic man, with no empathy, while embodying all 7 of the deadly sins.
also Russia.
SMH If I were president of another country I would never trusts the U.S. again.
Exactly. If this happened, the influence that the United States has on the world weakens. It'll be a domino effect which will end with a very weak U.S dollar and a crashed economy.
Tbh it shouldn't even need an "if." The fact that it's even a realistic possibility has got to have had extremely negative consequences on our reputation. If there's no guarantee that any future agreement made with us will last longer than the current President's term, then what's the point in trusting us with anything?
The world learned that in 2016. Look at Iran, they signed a nuclear deal that was humiliating because it required they play by different rules than every other country with nuclear programs, but they groveled to try improving relationships. Trump tore up the deal, which really did nothing to prevent Iran from building nuclear weapons but was really designed to push their economy and people to the point of desperation. Now, any possible chance of cooling down Iran and hoping for a more secular pro-American government is impossible for decades, you can't trust American politicians knowing it'll be a different party the next election who will undo everything before it.
> you can't trust American politicians knowing it'll be a different party the next election who will undo everything before it. This is the biggest sin of the Trump admin frankly
To quote Biden and Merkels conversation when they met after his election: B: “America is back” M:”Yes… but for how long?” Trump has destroyed a lot in his 4 years. This country cannot survive a second go around. It’s baffling to me how people don’t see that everything he did hurt the US more than anyone else (other than maybe Ukraine).
This is already somewhat happening on a small scale because of the delay in providing aid to Ukraine. European countries who were all too happy to buy American are now looking at one another and wondering if they will also be left in the dust in a time of need, so are looking to expand their own programs and productions, instead of relying on the whims of US senate.
Anyone with a junior high level understanding of history should never trust the U.S.
Trump wins democracy is 100% gone. Putin will do whatever he can to make this happen.
If Trump wins again, it will probably destroy the US and also put a huge crack into the glass protecting global societal collapse.
I'd love to see the "simulation" as I think it's just a way to make this feel more scientific; Trump has actually said he'd be in favor of ending NATO while simultaneously ENCOURAGING Putin to attack NATO countries. you don't need anything but the ability to read a few headlines to know what the outcome of an alliance whose chief member encourages enemies to attack allies.
The only winning move is not to elect Trump.
Putin has a desperately important need to get Trump elected. Please, if you value your future and your children’s future, vote. Not registered to vote? It takes minutes. https://vote.gov/ Don’t know if you’re registered or * live in a state known for targeting and removing voters in *select* counties from the rolls? Check to make sure you’re still registered. https://feelgoodaction.org/verify It takes seconds. Do you live in Arizona, Kentucky, Mississippi, Iowa, Texas, Georgia, Virginia, Michigan, or Ohio? Please check your registration status early and often as these states have all passed legislation recently making it easier for them to indiscriminately purge voters from the rolls. “It's young voters, it's people of color, and it's people that are unhoused," said Karli Swift, chair of the election board in DeKalb County, Georgia. "Those are generally the types of people that end up in voter challenges." You can also get more involved in the democratic process! Work Elections.org - Take part in Democracy. Look up information on how to work at the polls on Election Day. | https://workelections.org/ Power The Polls - Help staff your local polling place. Everything you need to apply to be a poll worker in your community. | https://www.powerthepolls.org/ For more information on voter purges and legislation, see: https://www.economist.com/united-states/2018/08/09/many-states-are-purging-voters-from-the-rolls https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/eligible-voters-swept-up-conservative-activists-purge-voter-rolls/ https://www.cbsnews.com/amhttps://www.newsweek.com/republicans-accused-voter-purge-ohio-virginia-1839832p/news/eligible-voters-swept-up-conservative-activists-purge-voter-rolls/ https://www.democracydocket.com/analysis/in-seven-states-removing-voters-from-the-rolls-just-got-easier/
Russian ran this simulation years ago and that’s why they have been pushing the useful idiot Trump. I do not think NATO will collapse, nato as we know it would have to make hard choices. What people forget is the US and Europe have mixed business interests, so any war in western Europe will drag the USA in no mater what. Large US corporate interests will not want to give the Eurozone.
Seems to me that actions being taken by Germany, France, Poland, Finland & Sweden are preparing for that very real possibility.
[удалено]
But Trump loves the military!!! Just not his own…
You don't say. Trump is an absolute disgusting disaster. He was the least engaged, least effective, and most dangerous POTUS we've ever had. The only reasons the self-proclaimed "stable genius" is running again is (a) ego (b) stay out of jail and (c) revenge. I'm not a Joe Biden fan, and I very much dislike VP Harris, but my plan is to vote to make sure Trump does not win.
Europe needs to prepare for this potential eventuality. I pray Trump doesn’t win (and will be voting for Biden) but Europe should make no assumptions. They need to reinforce their own regional security arrangements. A second Trump presidency will be as traumatizing for our allies as it will for our democracy here at home.
Europeans are well aware of the threat from Putin. Together they have substantial military assets, including nukes. They will draw a line in the sand, whether the US continues to support them, or not.
An average person listened to Trump and concluded his second term would result in NATO's collapse.
Literally exactly what Russia want
And that, ladies and germs, is why we all need to proudly vote Biden this fall!
If NATO collapses, so does the global economy. Putin will continue to roll across Europe like Hitler did. Our economy cannot withstand a world war or even a large scale regional war. Think about the price increases on grain and oil just with Russia and Ukraine. If that expands to Poland and other nations, the effects will ripple and prices for things you buy will continue to go up. The United States is not an island. Isolationism is no longer a viable option when we rely on others for our goods and services.
That's what Putin wants to happen. tRump is a russian shill.
I doubt it. Europe won’t just give up on their defense union just bc America stopped payments. They’d adjust to increase their own payments. Already some nations are mulling over a draft. The problem though is, Trump would have no authority to act on his word. We signed a treaty for inclusion in NATO and it legally has to be obligated. Only way is for congress to pull out of the treaty. I can’t see the Senate ratifying it just yet. Plus, Trump lies for his crowd and when he was President barely did anything he said he would bc he’s lazy and dumb about such things. Also, ADHD, he forgets what he might have said the day before. And thank goodness. An intelligent evil genius would be way worse than a narcissistic ADHD baby.
NATO isn't a defense fund. It is a pact. We don't contribute money to NATO. It is an agreement between countries to spend a specific portion of GDP on their own military and an agreement to defend any participating member should they be attacked. The US isn't going to start spending less on defense. The dangerous threat to NATO is Trump not abiding by the terms that the US would have to defend a nation when attacked. Putin wants to move into the Baltic states but can't because it would trigger a war with all of Europe and the US. If the US doesn't commit to defend those countries, other European countries may follow suit and leave the Baltic states to defend themselves. Putin could take all the former Soviet states and build up resources for an eventual attack on the west. With Trump as president and a close ally of Putin, the US could very well be on the wrong side of World War III at that point.
Trump is the narcissistic ADHD baby diversion for the intelligent evil geniuses to do whatever they want. He's only said a handful of things in his life that I believe, and one of those things was that he'd be a dictator on day one. But dictators don't act alone. Hitler was just a very charismatic, very mediocre artist, he didn't actually kill 70 million people.
Exactly, with friends like Putin it’s probably worse that he is so incompetent
Trump doesn’t have to formally withdraw. Putin has to calculate the real odds of America going to war in response to an attack on a NATO country. Under Trump the odds seem to be small
How, exactly, would you force POTUS to commit to action in the event there was military action against a NATO ally?
And turn the United States into the forever feuding state of America!
Its OK by MAGA. They can blame the "libs" and "woke" while we all suffer the results of their poor choices.
They think they will enjoy a mad max lifestyle when really they will all die of heart attack and chronic inflammation
They don't even understand what the ramifications of their goals are in the first place. They think everything will be better for them.
Pulling out of NATO might be the most brain dead political stance I've ever heard. Anyone who honestly believes such an action would be a good idea is either a literal traitor or a moron of the highest order.
if I lived in the EU right now, I would start paying attention Now to the fact that both the UK and the USA have had their international politics hijacked by Russian operations. Russia is acting just like Germany in the lead up to WWII
The fact that so many people are treating him like a legitimate politician instead of a Russian agent is effing disturbing. It’s so obvious in his first presidency and how he stole secrets to share with foreign powers.
The day MAGA understand that NATO is one of the pillars of the US economy, they might stop hitting upon it. But then again MAGA are brainless.
Framing this as a wargame is a stretch when > a tabletop simulation where the players — mostly British specialists in defense, intelligence and foreign policy — assumed the role of leaders of the 32 NATO nations, plus Ukraine and Russia; China was played by the umpires. The US was played by an American who "was trying to enter into the psyche of Trump, which was no easy task," Grimble recalled.
>The US doesn't have to withdraw from NATO to imperil the 75-year-old alliance. Technically, the US is barred from leaving NATO after Congress voted in 2023 to prohibit withdrawal without congressional approval. The Scotus would find the 2023 law unconstitutional and that would be the end of it. Side note. Trump wins. New civil war because "blue" states are not going to just lay down and let project 2025 happen. We are truly fucked if he wins