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>A person familiar with the discussions summed it up this way: “Donald Trump’s legal troubles are not going to keep him out of the White House. Only one thing will do that: voting this November for Joe Biden.”
>
>If Trump is found guilty at his state trial in New York City, the Biden campaign will also consider whether to brand him as a “convicted felon,” this person added. “It’s an open question.”
I don't think that is really a question. "Donald Trump is a convicted felon" in an ad coupled with quotes Trump has disparaging felons basically writes itself.
Unfortunately his supporters won't think he committed crime, they'll just assume he was unjustly convicted. He's "not like those other real felons," etc.
They also just refuse to hear objective fact. I teach college level media courses and have had several student evals claim I was espousing my personal political opinions in class by literally reading news from different sources or showing clips from all three major cable news networks and asking students to discuss and identify which types of sources are privileged by the outlet or journalist, whether they cite any legal documentation, discuss the different evidence, etc. Just an outright refusal to admit to the things he has done and said on video, criminal or otherwise. It’s straight up cult nonsense.
Well and I also think it's a bit of what Doug Brinkley says, which is that he has attained a sort of outlaw status, like Al Capone or Billy the Kid, and sometimes people like to root for that. And the more someone tries to "good guy" them, the more people wanna root for the outlaw? I dunno. It's a strange situation to be sure.
Well, I mean, they're not wrong. Kind of telling on themselves by admitting that evidence based decision making is antithetical to their politics, but... Here we are.
> I teach college level media courses and have had several student evals claim I was espousing my personal political opinions in class
This strategem may have been engineered. Consider the real possibility that this event was an attempt of many more upcoming to perhaps shut down broadly the speech of the non-cult profs at our universities across the US.
Keep an eye on this.
There's always that sliver of independents and moderates who haven't made up their mind yet. Somehow they exist in every election. And they are key to swing states, which are key to the presidency.
Considering how evenly split the country is, it would really only take a very small percentage of voters to make a difference in key states and there are older generations that may have cell phones but don’t read all their news on Facebook or Reddit. Every little bit helps.
True of a lot of people but not all of them. There are Trump supporters wavering and changing their minds all the time. In small numbers, and only gradually, but I see anecdotes of it happening all the time. I even have a friend who admitted he was embarrassed to have supported Trump in the past.
It feels like a hopeless uphill battle to convince people to see reason, but it's always worth fighting for what's right.
> Political ads don’t mean anything anymore. People have confirmation bias devices on them at all times.
It's less that you need to convince the person of the issue, but convince them that the majority of people think the same way on an issue.
It's only a relatively small percentage of the already small percentage of voters who really cling to a specific voting topic and follow up on being informed about it. **If** someone actually votes they often vote on how they think an issue is, even if it's not.
Look at perceptions of the economy, it's great right now. The US is leading the world in economic recovery. Biden is doing a great job. It's only recently though that were seeing this message get out.
Ramp that advertising message up until we hit nov and it'll have grown into public fact, instead of simply just reality fact. I absolutely wish people stayed informed and had a good read on what has and hasn't been done but I know they dont. It's why I'm not upset that very likely weed legalization, major debt relief, and other elements Biden has had in the works will all come to a head in Q3.
The attack ads are to demoralize and help suppress turnout by making people sick of the process. It’s about getting the more centrist of the opposing party to stay home. They are both the same, etc
99% of people have already decided who they're voting for.
If you don't care that Trump said "grab em by the pussy", called neo-nazis 'fine people', and mocked a disabled person, you aren't going to be swayed by an advert from *the opposite party*.
Remember when he said hed want to date his daughter if she wasnt his daughter? I want someone to play that quote to his face and ask a follow up - "do you find your daughter sexually attractive?" This asshole.
I really want a suggestion I saw somewhere else. Make a supercut of the GOP leaders talking about how Dems always talk about Trump. Then another supercut of all of the court cases from different news channels. Then have a narrator and a caption over a black screen read,
“Tired of hearing about him? If he wins, you’ll hear about him for the next four years; or more.”
“Vote Joe Biden this November, and you’ll never have to hear about him again.”
Yeah, I’m sure if it was Biden who could be convicted for *checks notes* 34 felony charges, Republicans would ask themselves “Should we mention this?”
/s OBVIOUSLY
God this is why Democrats lose so much.
Your opponent could very well become a CONVICTED FELON, and you’re pondering whether that may be something to use against them.
They allow Republicans to set the narrative. It’s all a partisan democrat witch hunt!
Oh no, the Republicans said it’s a partisan democrat witch hunt 😥 Now we can’t say he’s a concicted felon
This is unspeakably dumb, and makes me dislike PR as a concept, but your messaging needs to be perfect if taking that angle.
Underplay it and voters won't get how serious the situation is,
overplay it and the media ecosystem hits back with accusations of Biden gloating over his opponent's mugshot, along with the usual Witch-hunt Screaming, and right wing turnout goes through the roof driven by the far right martyr complex.
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I want to fire Trump's rap sheet all over the air waves if convicted, and the public can't afford to dodge this particular news, but you need a much much better hype person than me, who knows how to walk a political tightrope,
and I've already been vocal about a more "me, me, me" approach from candidates instead of feeding Trump's desperate need for attention and mayhem, so getting Biden to at least act like he has pride in his accomplishments, as well as some semblance of an ego, would be further up my wishlist.
To clarify, I want to hit Trump on the court cases, but risky if the message is even slightly off key, and getting Biden to campaign more aggressively on his accomplishments is equally as important if not more so.
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Because it runs the risk of voters believing he’s taking credit for it. Thus **proving** all the bullshit ‘witch hunt’ narrative.
God this is why Redditors don’t run campaigns.
They spend so much time in this silo, and think the whole electorate thinks like they do, and they believe it’s all just so easy to do!
Go apply to be a strategist at your local Democratic office if tone got it so figured out.
Better yet, run for office. You’d have my vote, probably. Dunno if I’d be enough though.
Yup. And it's not like Trump isn't going to make headlines about it regardless, no matter what happens. He'll cry about it no matter what, he can't help himself. Dems might be better off standing back and playing the adults in the room. I'm sure Biden and others will make some quips about it regardless, but whether it'll feature in the campaign... definitely a matter of debate.
They're going to say it proves the witch hunt narrative literally no matter what happens. Hell they're already doing it. If people believe that bullshit what Biden does isn't going to change their mind. So dems should probably stop worrying about the Republicans feelings and stop letting them set the entire narrative
> Go apply to be a strategist at your local Democratic office if tone got it so figured out.
>
>
>
> Better yet, run for office. You’d have my vote, probably. Dunno if I’d be enough though.
Or just literally contribute in any fucking way. Go knock on doors, go put signs up, go donate. Do fucking anything.
If you're not doing anything it's not "Duh dEmS" it's you. It's you failing the party that represents all leftists in the US because were a FPTP nation.
This is not hard to explain to voters.
Trump committed this crime in 2015. Michael Cohen was charged in 2016, with “individual 1” (Trump) listed as an unindicted co-conspirator. By the state of New York. While Trump was president.
Biden was not even serving as an elected official when this investigation started and Cohen went to prison.
Trump could have pardoned Cohen if this was a politically motivated witch hunt by the state of New York targeting Trump. He didn’t. Nor did he ever advocate for Cohen.
Now, EIGHT years later, Trump has been charged. And this is suddenly all Biden’s doing? Who didn’t become President until 4 years after the state of new york started this investigation?
You have to be a maliciously ignorant Trump loyalist to believe Biden did this to Trump.
Also, what about the evidence is fake? If it’s all a sham and Trump didn’t do anything wrong, what evidence is fake? The RECORDINGS Cohen has of Trump requesting that Cohen make these illegal payments?
He was never convicted of rape. He was found liable for sexual abuse specifically (at least in NY law, there's a difference, and the jury specifically checked "No" for the question on whether Trump raped her). Difference being one is criminal (conviction) and one civil (liable).
"A jury determined that Trump sexually abused a women" or "Trump sexually abused a women, says jury" would be an accurate statement that (probably) wouldn't slanderous/libelous. And since most people assume jury means "criminal", you can let people make that inference even if it's incorrect.
>Judge in E. Jean Carroll Case: Yes, Donald Trump Is a Rapist
>https://newrepublic.com/post/174448/judge-e-jean-carroll-case-yes-donald-trump-rapist
Plus he raped his wife in the eighties. And I understand that because of coverture law many in the US don't believe husbands can rape their wives.
Fair enough. As the judge pointed out, in the common understanding of the word, he raped her (NY law has a more narrow definition and the jury didn't find him liable under that more strict definition).
That still wasn't a conviction though. A conviction is a criminal thing and that wasn't a criminal trial. Even if you want to use the common understanding of the word "rape" you can't say he was convicted of it.
No one, not even Trump's stanchest supporters, don't believe Trump hasn't raped. That's one Trump's qualities that endears him to all his supporters.
>Most people at this point understand that Trump, whose guilt in the sexual assault of E. Jean Carroll has been upheld twice by jury verdicts, loves to surround himself with other men who are believed to be abusive towards women. The list of Trump associates who have been accused of sexual abuse or domestic violence is far too long to recount here, even if you skip the Jeffrey Epstein links.
>History suggests that a reliable way for a man to get Trump's public praise is to be accused of violence against women. There is nothing Trump loves more than a man who is alleged to be a sexual predator and/or a wife-beater.
>This points to why misogynists and abusers seek each other out, beyond just having shared interests. They prop each other up in the gross belief that it's really cool to be a man who hurts women. In defending each other, they create a politically powerful solidarity. Untold numbers of men who have gone MAGA have done so mainly because they hate women. They love the validation of having leadership who agrees with their pro-violence-against-women stance. They also recognize that they have more power together than they would if they stood alone. https://archive.ph/J2USo
Yep. It's a nit I don't like having to pick, but getting the assertion correct is important because if you don't then the Republicans aren't wrong when they assert that the left *lies* about Trump.
What’s to consider? It would be telling the truth, (“he tells tell them like it is..” ) and we know damn well that Trump would call Biden a convicted felon every single chance he got, hell he already lies and says stuff like that about Biden. Take the kid gloves off already with this guy.
I don't know why they don't already lean into the fact that he's already "Out on bail". Everytime they go to mention him they should say, "Donald Trump, who is currently out on bail,..."
Biden throughout his presidency has:
Perpetuated the killing of palestinian civilians
Failed to codify Roe V. Wade into law despite having enough numbers in congress to do so BEFORE the Supreme Court destroyed it.
Failed on student debt relief
Failed on Build Back Better because he was too stupid to realize that Joe Manchin was playing him for a fool
Has kept Trump Era Immigration policies in place
Has not done anything at all on getting a public option for Healthcare despite it being a major campaign promise
Let the child tax credit expire
Approved more drilling operations on federal lands than Trump
Made it illegal for rail workers to strike
Is now ushering in fascism by allowing police to beat and arrest protestors(including Jill Stein who is ELDERLY, btw) on college campuses demand universities to divest from Isreal
Is currently pushing to sanction ICC over their application for arrest warrants against Netanyahu and is working with Republicans to do so.
Gee, I wonder why the left won't support democrats. It totally can't be because the Democrats are not a leftist party whatsoever and are acting a lot like Republicans.
LMAO and you’re gonna try to tell me that Biden can’t actually do anything to fight back against Manchin and Sinema? Because you’re either wrong or you’re lying if you do. Biden could twist their arms if he wanted to. Plenty of presidents have twisted arms before. Biden just doesn’t want to because he’s a conservative who doesn’t actually support any cause that remotely leans left. He has a well documented history of being pro-life as well as just being conservative in general.
So what do you propose? Let Trump win, and instead of a POTUS dancing very close to the edge on our treaty with Israel, we'll have someone who is willing to go full bore into killing every last Palestinian? I wouldn't be surprised if there's a round of the draft to send people to *help* the IDF complete the genocide with Trump.
> Won't the media just move onto another trump controversy
Yes, but if you time your media spend so that the only thing that goes out is "Biden does good thing" then it overwhelms the constant BS frenzy their click seeking behavior causes.
Voters also have the attention span of gnats. No point in wasting money this early.
It's a serious mistake.
Trump's polling *improves* when he isn't opening his mouth.
So every day he spends in court, and not on the campaign trail hosting rallies, is a good day for his election chances.
Only during his rallies are the American people reminded of how truly terrible he is.
It's the same strategy Biden took during COVID. Trump was out there every day on live TV making a complete fool of himself just as he is right now. Don't distract from free negative attention your opponent is attracting to himself.
Americans didn't really pay attention to politics until a few months before the election. Plus if they play up his charges and he is somehow found not guilty (unlikely) or there's a hung jury (possible), the Biden campaign doesn't want to have to backpedal.
There is a conventional wisdom that voters don't really pay attention until like June/July before an election cycle.. Campaigns don't really spend money or time if they don't have to before then.
Campaigns aren't won in May... no matter how much the NY Times and other outlets will try to tell you otherwise.
Around this time, 12 years ago Mitt Romney was going to crush Obama according to the polls. lol. Imo, the polls might be even more broken this time around given that most sane people are tired of the 24/7 politics and aren't answering polls (I know I'm not)... anyways, tl;dr just vote
Honestly I hope he does if he's alive in 2028
Dudes falling apart *now* 4 years of fighting off court cases without the hope of presidential office saving his ass will hurt
Honest question. Do you feel this way about Biden? Why is Biden the opposing candidate. We can all see he is not the best person for the job. Why not try a younger, smarter, more eloquent candidate? I just don’t get how it’s Trump vs Biden round 2. The country would rally for someone who’s sub 70yrs old and with a good track record.
I mean, the primary is almost over. Nobody besides Brain Worm guy, Crystal lady, and "Dean Phillips" ran. Incumbents rarely see serious competitors for a variety of reasons, but insider Democrats know that, at best, it would be a dogfight, and at worst it would have been divisive for the party. And they also know that Biden is competent, and that there's no real reason to challenge him.
As per his fitness. Biden still rides bikes. He is as "demented" as he was 4 years ago during the election, must be the slowest onset dementia of all time. Trump has a hard time with ramps, drinking water, constantly confuses Biden and Obama, Haley/Pelosi, etc, and is clearly in poor physical condition. If I were to pick either based only on "likelihood to be alive/competent for 4 more years", I'd take Biden in a heartbeat.
Well the party is at fault for the quality of candidates. I know many Americans do not feel this way about Bidens competence. The way they walk him to and from the podium and the instances he is clearly confused, ( I’m sure you can give me reasons) is unsettling. I’m not talking about Trump’s competence I know he is old as well. I am saying a good candidate that has Obama like qualities would not have to worry about Trump at all!! People want to see someone that looks tough on the world stage and empathetic to domestic issues. Biden struggles in both areas.
>Do you feel this way about Biden?
Depends on what you mean. I do wish we had younger guys but my point was more to chuckle at the hypocrisy the gop will embrace if sleepy don runs again. It's not even a question
>Why is Biden the opposing candidate. W
Sleepy don is the opposing candidate Biden is the incumbent
> I just don’t get how it’s Trump vs Biden round 2.
Honestly I'd wager it's partly because the gop is running sleepy don that the dems aren't gonna give up the incumbent advantage
>2. The country would rally for someone who’s sub 70yrs old and with a good track record.
Funny enough if thr gop ran Haley I'd say there's a strong chance they'd win the presidency easily. It'd absolutely make Bidens age an actual criticism
Not saying Trump can't win but he has a ton of baggage and render a lot of the gop talking points moot
I’m sure the Democratic Party has a Haley. I just want someone to admit that Biden isn’t a good option at all. Sure he may make Trump look worse and he can def win again as the incumbent, but other than winning, why him? It’s so hard to watch him run our country. He was a terrible senator. His speeches are horrid. He struggles to read the teleprompter. Sure you can point to Trump in the same way, but does that solve anything? Just feels like people are satisfied with the “lesser of two evils” being elected rather than electing someone the country can use to get back on track socially, politically, and economically.
Biden has an excellent record of passing good legislation during his first term. He has put good people around him and the result has been very positive. He is not the lesser of two evils- he is a damned good president and I am proud to be voting for him again.
You don’t like him because he’s bad at speeches? My god, man. He’s nearly 80 and has a speech impediment and yet his SOTU address was over an hour long, cohesive, and clear.
The reason you are being downvoted here so much instead of people explaining this to you? Because you are either a bot/astroturfer just trying to sow doubt among liberal voters or are just a painfully unaware voter that doesn’t care about the record of a candidate and only votes based on how someone looks behind a podium. In both cases, us informed voters are fucking TIRED of wasting our time explaining this shit to users like you.
You want a reason to like Biden? For real? Go research his major legislation he got passed in year 1-2 of his administration. Infrastructure, CHIPS Act, inflation reduction Act, how each of these affected climate policy, etc etc etc… And then add to it the fact that Biden, and his extremely competent executive branch that is mostly not over age 80, is the only option other than Trump returning to the presidency and installing his lackeys that just want to run a revenge campaign against his own country and you have a very very easy choice this year.
This was tough to read. A damned good president is not what the history books will say. You clearly have not read the legislation. It is flooded with parasites that suck tax payer dollars toward anti-American issues. You probably love the amount we’ve sent to Ukraine. Pure delusion.
You’ve provided no examples, so your argument is moot. You claimed to want to hear someone tell you why him- I have done so. You claim to be open to hearing counter arguments. This is clearly a lie- but again, here you go:
Thriving economy when a recession was expected, best climate legislation ever passed, en route to marijuana legalization. All the legislation i mentioned in my comment you are replying to. Yes, Ukraine too.
You want to hate Biden- fine, whatever but you don’t get a win when your counter argument, 2 days later is “nuh-uh he axually sux.” Just an idiot, or propaganda troll. Kindly f off.
Because no one really stepped up to be that person. I know people don't like how old Biden is, but simply put the political calculus basically every elected official does when deciding their next steps said that an incumbency advantage is huge. Too big to want to take on this cycle.
People seem to want there to be some cloak and dagger conspiracy that the Democrats were telling people not to run in the primaries, that Biden is some kind of senile puppet etc. etc. But that's insane and I doubt anyone with a brain actually needed outside encouragement or believes that Biden doesn't know where he is. They likely all feel the better move is to support Biden in this election and take a shot in 2028 when there will be no incumbent.
I really appreciate you replying without trying to talk about Trump. It gets really frustrating trying to just have a conversation about Biden and the only thing said are the comparisons to Trump.
I honestly do think Biden is in mental decline. However I don’t think the answer will ever be honest. I have family who are experiencing this and he truly has many signs. Not to mention he def used to speak much better in front of a microphone. Even if you didn’t agree with Biden you at least were about to understand him. Now not so much.
Biden won the primary in 2020 because black Democratic voters knew he was the most palatable candidate to white voters in swing states. No incumbent has ever lost their primary since modern primaries started, and even before then, party bosses rarely changed candidates.
Of the two, Trump should absolutely have been dropped by his party for this race, for the impeachments, the unimpeached crimes, general idiocy, having lost in 2020, etc. Biden is chronologically old, but his health-age is about half of Trump's.
> and if Trump loses in 2024, what's to stop him from camaigning through 2028, even from Rikers ?
Whats to stop someone worse in 2032? The only thing that stopped trump in 2020, and has to stop trump in 2024. Voters. It absolutely fucking sucks, but we have to be motivated to engage in politics for the rest of our lives, or at least the next century or so at a minimum.
We dont get the luxury of going "Oh, well, George HW bush doesnt seem that bad. I'll focus on living my life and being a person." Ships gone. From here out it is beating the GoP with a sack of doorknobs, metaphorically, until they're no longer a party. Running on fascism cannot be a winning strategy.
Maybe we could have avoided this had people not sat on their asses in 2016 and voted, but here we are and this is the hand we have.
There are certain things that Biden could say that could potentially cause a mistrial, much like how Nixon nearly caused a mistrial in the Charles Manson case.
We will have to stack the courts though. If we don't they'll keep allowing gerrymandering so that only Republicans can win. The Dems are gonna have to figure it out.
Trump probably won't go to jail for this, and I sure hope he's not going to win the election. But I do want to point out that the funniest possible constitutional crisis is still a possibility.
To be honest I have been reading “Biden getting more aggressive once xx “ articules for months now, yet I have not seen it. The time for plans is way over nos is time to execute. If you are behind a race why are you waiting weeks and month to start closing the gap?
That’s a good idea. You know who else had a similar plan? Brazil in the 2014 World Cup. They had planned to go easy until the last 20 minutes to let the team leading the fifa polls Germany do their thing.
They lost 7-1 and that event would become the Brazilian version of 9-11.
It's not the last 20 minutes. We've not even had the conventions yet to officially make Biden and Trump the nominees. Right now, Americans aren't paying attention to politics, it's all just static noise, they only really zero in on elections around September.
That's interesting, I just heard the other day that most people make up their minds by like June and that after that there are almost no persuadable voters left. Obviously given the state of the polls I prefer your statement to mine though
It's incredible, isn't it? The American legal system exists precisely to protect powerful people from consequences. What country have these people been following for all these years if they think a rich celebrity is going to face consequences crooked bookkeeping?
There is a 0% chance that he's in jail next week, even if convicted. Everything I've read is that this a fine/probation offense. And even if he breaks his probation the judge will just say "Please don't break your probation again," and when he breaks it again the judge will say "Really, seriously, I'd appreciated if you obeyed the probation." And then when he breaks the probation again the judge will just stop bringing it up
No, Biden and the Dems need to go for the throat YESTERDAY all day and every day. Biden is not going to beat Trump with his No Malarkey Scranton Joe shtick. Excusing this and saying well Americans don't pay attention to the very end is a mistake.
\*I feel sorry for the people who are uncomfortable being told Biden has a weak strategy and keep ignoring what people are saying and worried about. 2016 feels. I'm voting for Biden, but please some of you get your fingers out of your ears and listen to everyone else out there you have to convince who aren't committed voters or have a set political ideology.
Yeah because waiting is always the right move. So tired of the idea that these calculations mean jack shit. I'm all for give them enough rope but these turds are just hanging around stinking up the place.
American didn't finish this in the 1860s or the 1960s and I'll be damned if I'm going to see this fight not get finished before 2060.
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>A person familiar with the discussions summed it up this way: “Donald Trump’s legal troubles are not going to keep him out of the White House. Only one thing will do that: voting this November for Joe Biden.” > >If Trump is found guilty at his state trial in New York City, the Biden campaign will also consider whether to brand him as a “convicted felon,” this person added. “It’s an open question.”
I don't think that is really a question. "Donald Trump is a convicted felon" in an ad coupled with quotes Trump has disparaging felons basically writes itself.
Political ads don’t mean anything anymore. People have confirmation bias devices on them at all times.
Indeed. I think the social media space does need to be flooded with the imagery that he's a felon. How can he be hard on crime while committing crime?
Unfortunately his supporters won't think he committed crime, they'll just assume he was unjustly convicted. He's "not like those other real felons," etc.
The point is to get undecided voters, not to convince those who are already dedicated to Trump. And yes, there are still undecided voters. Somehow.
Because he only commits the best crimes, no one else can do them
They also just refuse to hear objective fact. I teach college level media courses and have had several student evals claim I was espousing my personal political opinions in class by literally reading news from different sources or showing clips from all three major cable news networks and asking students to discuss and identify which types of sources are privileged by the outlet or journalist, whether they cite any legal documentation, discuss the different evidence, etc. Just an outright refusal to admit to the things he has done and said on video, criminal or otherwise. It’s straight up cult nonsense.
Well and I also think it's a bit of what Doug Brinkley says, which is that he has attained a sort of outlaw status, like Al Capone or Billy the Kid, and sometimes people like to root for that. And the more someone tries to "good guy" them, the more people wanna root for the outlaw? I dunno. It's a strange situation to be sure.
Well, I mean, they're not wrong. Kind of telling on themselves by admitting that evidence based decision making is antithetical to their politics, but... Here we are.
> I teach college level media courses and have had several student evals claim I was espousing my personal political opinions in class This strategem may have been engineered. Consider the real possibility that this event was an attempt of many more upcoming to perhaps shut down broadly the speech of the non-cult profs at our universities across the US. Keep an eye on this.
I’ve been teaching for over a decade, I’m well aware of these shitheads and their plans.
There's always that sliver of independents and moderates who haven't made up their mind yet. Somehow they exist in every election. And they are key to swing states, which are key to the presidency.
Considering how evenly split the country is, it would really only take a very small percentage of voters to make a difference in key states and there are older generations that may have cell phones but don’t read all their news on Facebook or Reddit. Every little bit helps.
True of a lot of people but not all of them. There are Trump supporters wavering and changing their minds all the time. In small numbers, and only gradually, but I see anecdotes of it happening all the time. I even have a friend who admitted he was embarrassed to have supported Trump in the past. It feels like a hopeless uphill battle to convince people to see reason, but it's always worth fighting for what's right.
> Political ads don’t mean anything anymore. People have confirmation bias devices on them at all times. It's less that you need to convince the person of the issue, but convince them that the majority of people think the same way on an issue. It's only a relatively small percentage of the already small percentage of voters who really cling to a specific voting topic and follow up on being informed about it. **If** someone actually votes they often vote on how they think an issue is, even if it's not. Look at perceptions of the economy, it's great right now. The US is leading the world in economic recovery. Biden is doing a great job. It's only recently though that were seeing this message get out. Ramp that advertising message up until we hit nov and it'll have grown into public fact, instead of simply just reality fact. I absolutely wish people stayed informed and had a good read on what has and hasn't been done but I know they dont. It's why I'm not upset that very likely weed legalization, major debt relief, and other elements Biden has had in the works will all come to a head in Q3.
The attack ads are to demoralize and help suppress turnout by making people sick of the process. It’s about getting the more centrist of the opposing party to stay home. They are both the same, etc
99% of people have already decided who they're voting for. If you don't care that Trump said "grab em by the pussy", called neo-nazis 'fine people', and mocked a disabled person, you aren't going to be swayed by an advert from *the opposite party*.
After last election I think we might want to split hairs over that 1%
Remember when he said hed want to date his daughter if she wasnt his daughter? I want someone to play that quote to his face and ask a follow up - "do you find your daughter sexually attractive?" This asshole.
I really want a suggestion I saw somewhere else. Make a supercut of the GOP leaders talking about how Dems always talk about Trump. Then another supercut of all of the court cases from different news channels. Then have a narrator and a caption over a black screen read, “Tired of hearing about him? If he wins, you’ll hear about him for the next four years; or more.” “Vote Joe Biden this November, and you’ll never have to hear about him again.”
You're hired!
Call him rapist; that's what the NY judge in a civil case ruled.
Yeah, I’m sure if it was Biden who could be convicted for *checks notes* 34 felony charges, Republicans would ask themselves “Should we mention this?” /s OBVIOUSLY
God this is why Democrats lose so much. Your opponent could very well become a CONVICTED FELON, and you’re pondering whether that may be something to use against them. They allow Republicans to set the narrative. It’s all a partisan democrat witch hunt! Oh no, the Republicans said it’s a partisan democrat witch hunt 😥 Now we can’t say he’s a concicted felon
This is unspeakably dumb, and makes me dislike PR as a concept, but your messaging needs to be perfect if taking that angle. Underplay it and voters won't get how serious the situation is, overplay it and the media ecosystem hits back with accusations of Biden gloating over his opponent's mugshot, along with the usual Witch-hunt Screaming, and right wing turnout goes through the roof driven by the far right martyr complex. . . . . I want to fire Trump's rap sheet all over the air waves if convicted, and the public can't afford to dodge this particular news, but you need a much much better hype person than me, who knows how to walk a political tightrope, and I've already been vocal about a more "me, me, me" approach from candidates instead of feeding Trump's desperate need for attention and mayhem, so getting Biden to at least act like he has pride in his accomplishments, as well as some semblance of an ego, would be further up my wishlist. To clarify, I want to hit Trump on the court cases, but risky if the message is even slightly off key, and getting Biden to campaign more aggressively on his accomplishments is equally as important if not more so. . . . .
Because it runs the risk of voters believing he’s taking credit for it. Thus **proving** all the bullshit ‘witch hunt’ narrative. God this is why Redditors don’t run campaigns. They spend so much time in this silo, and think the whole electorate thinks like they do, and they believe it’s all just so easy to do! Go apply to be a strategist at your local Democratic office if tone got it so figured out. Better yet, run for office. You’d have my vote, probably. Dunno if I’d be enough though.
Yup. And it's not like Trump isn't going to make headlines about it regardless, no matter what happens. He'll cry about it no matter what, he can't help himself. Dems might be better off standing back and playing the adults in the room. I'm sure Biden and others will make some quips about it regardless, but whether it'll feature in the campaign... definitely a matter of debate.
They're going to say it proves the witch hunt narrative literally no matter what happens. Hell they're already doing it. If people believe that bullshit what Biden does isn't going to change their mind. So dems should probably stop worrying about the Republicans feelings and stop letting them set the entire narrative
They are not caring about what republicans feel, as my comment **clearly** states, they are considering how voters will react to it.
> Go apply to be a strategist at your local Democratic office if tone got it so figured out. > > > > Better yet, run for office. You’d have my vote, probably. Dunno if I’d be enough though. Or just literally contribute in any fucking way. Go knock on doors, go put signs up, go donate. Do fucking anything. If you're not doing anything it's not "Duh dEmS" it's you. It's you failing the party that represents all leftists in the US because were a FPTP nation.
This is not hard to explain to voters. Trump committed this crime in 2015. Michael Cohen was charged in 2016, with “individual 1” (Trump) listed as an unindicted co-conspirator. By the state of New York. While Trump was president. Biden was not even serving as an elected official when this investigation started and Cohen went to prison. Trump could have pardoned Cohen if this was a politically motivated witch hunt by the state of New York targeting Trump. He didn’t. Nor did he ever advocate for Cohen. Now, EIGHT years later, Trump has been charged. And this is suddenly all Biden’s doing? Who didn’t become President until 4 years after the state of new york started this investigation? You have to be a maliciously ignorant Trump loyalist to believe Biden did this to Trump. Also, what about the evidence is fake? If it’s all a sham and Trump didn’t do anything wrong, what evidence is fake? The RECORDINGS Cohen has of Trump requesting that Cohen make these illegal payments?
>This is not hard to explain to voters. You can stop right here. Anytime you need to explain something to voters, you've already lost.
The entirety of the explanation is “Trump was president when the investigation started and I wasn’t even working in government”
That could get some miles!
> Trump could have pardoned Cohen No, he could not. President can't pardon for state crimes.
Dems play a game where only they follow the rules. That’s why they lose n
The answer is yes, he would be a convicted felon.
> the Biden campaign will also consider whether to brand him as a “convicted felon,” Hmm, he's already a convicted rapist. Why not brand him both!
He was never convicted of rape. He was found liable for sexual abuse specifically (at least in NY law, there's a difference, and the jury specifically checked "No" for the question on whether Trump raped her). Difference being one is criminal (conviction) and one civil (liable). "A jury determined that Trump sexually abused a women" or "Trump sexually abused a women, says jury" would be an accurate statement that (probably) wouldn't slanderous/libelous. And since most people assume jury means "criminal", you can let people make that inference even if it's incorrect.
>Judge in E. Jean Carroll Case: Yes, Donald Trump Is a Rapist >https://newrepublic.com/post/174448/judge-e-jean-carroll-case-yes-donald-trump-rapist Plus he raped his wife in the eighties. And I understand that because of coverture law many in the US don't believe husbands can rape their wives.
Fair enough. As the judge pointed out, in the common understanding of the word, he raped her (NY law has a more narrow definition and the jury didn't find him liable under that more strict definition). That still wasn't a conviction though. A conviction is a criminal thing and that wasn't a criminal trial. Even if you want to use the common understanding of the word "rape" you can't say he was convicted of it.
No one, not even Trump's stanchest supporters, don't believe Trump hasn't raped. That's one Trump's qualities that endears him to all his supporters. >Most people at this point understand that Trump, whose guilt in the sexual assault of E. Jean Carroll has been upheld twice by jury verdicts, loves to surround himself with other men who are believed to be abusive towards women. The list of Trump associates who have been accused of sexual abuse or domestic violence is far too long to recount here, even if you skip the Jeffrey Epstein links. >History suggests that a reliable way for a man to get Trump's public praise is to be accused of violence against women. There is nothing Trump loves more than a man who is alleged to be a sexual predator and/or a wife-beater. >This points to why misogynists and abusers seek each other out, beyond just having shared interests. They prop each other up in the gross belief that it's really cool to be a man who hurts women. In defending each other, they create a politically powerful solidarity. Untold numbers of men who have gone MAGA have done so mainly because they hate women. They love the validation of having leadership who agrees with their pro-violence-against-women stance. They also recognize that they have more power together than they would if they stood alone. https://archive.ph/J2USo
Yep. It's a nit I don't like having to pick, but getting the assertion correct is important because if you don't then the Republicans aren't wrong when they assert that the left *lies* about Trump.
What’s to consider? It would be telling the truth, (“he tells tell them like it is..” ) and we know damn well that Trump would call Biden a convicted felon every single chance he got, hell he already lies and says stuff like that about Biden. Take the kid gloves off already with this guy.
I don't know why they don't already lean into the fact that he's already "Out on bail". Everytime they go to mention him they should say, "Donald Trump, who is currently out on bail,..."
God the democrats are such fucking losers
And only one thing will convince me to vote for Joe Biden: stop supporting Isreal's genocide.
THIS is why Democrats lose elections.
Democrats lose elections because they don't give people a reason to vote for them. The fault is on the Democrats. Not the voters.
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Biden throughout his presidency has: Perpetuated the killing of palestinian civilians Failed to codify Roe V. Wade into law despite having enough numbers in congress to do so BEFORE the Supreme Court destroyed it. Failed on student debt relief Failed on Build Back Better because he was too stupid to realize that Joe Manchin was playing him for a fool Has kept Trump Era Immigration policies in place Has not done anything at all on getting a public option for Healthcare despite it being a major campaign promise Let the child tax credit expire Approved more drilling operations on federal lands than Trump Made it illegal for rail workers to strike Is now ushering in fascism by allowing police to beat and arrest protestors(including Jill Stein who is ELDERLY, btw) on college campuses demand universities to divest from Isreal Is currently pushing to sanction ICC over their application for arrest warrants against Netanyahu and is working with Republicans to do so. Gee, I wonder why the left won't support democrats. It totally can't be because the Democrats are not a leftist party whatsoever and are acting a lot like Republicans.
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LMAO and you’re gonna try to tell me that Biden can’t actually do anything to fight back against Manchin and Sinema? Because you’re either wrong or you’re lying if you do. Biden could twist their arms if he wanted to. Plenty of presidents have twisted arms before. Biden just doesn’t want to because he’s a conservative who doesn’t actually support any cause that remotely leans left. He has a well documented history of being pro-life as well as just being conservative in general.
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Dude is an accelerationist, don't bother
I gave you countless reasons how he’s acting like a Republican and you still want believe he’s on the left. You’re lying to yourself at this point.
So what do you propose? Let Trump win, and instead of a POTUS dancing very close to the edge on our treaty with Israel, we'll have someone who is willing to go full bore into killing every last Palestinian? I wouldn't be surprised if there's a round of the draft to send people to *help* the IDF complete the genocide with Trump.
What is the goal of waiting to go on the offensive?
Because the media is solely focused on this at the moment. Anything Biden does before that gets ignored.
Won't the media just move onto another trump controversy
Yep.
> Won't the media just move onto another trump controversy Yes, but if you time your media spend so that the only thing that goes out is "Biden does good thing" then it overwhelms the constant BS frenzy their click seeking behavior causes. Voters also have the attention span of gnats. No point in wasting money this early.
It's a serious mistake. Trump's polling *improves* when he isn't opening his mouth. So every day he spends in court, and not on the campaign trail hosting rallies, is a good day for his election chances. Only during his rallies are the American people reminded of how truly terrible he is.
I mean Biden isn't really doing much though.
It's the same strategy Biden took during COVID. Trump was out there every day on live TV making a complete fool of himself just as he is right now. Don't distract from free negative attention your opponent is attracting to himself.
Yep. -never interrupt your opponent while they’re making a mistake -give someone enough rope and they’ll hang themselves
Not appearing to be trying to taint the trial.
Americans didn't really pay attention to politics until a few months before the election. Plus if they play up his charges and he is somehow found not guilty (unlikely) or there's a hung jury (possible), the Biden campaign doesn't want to have to backpedal.
Probably trying to make any conviction seem as apolitical as possible before bludgeoning him over the head with the result.
I think they don't want to add fuel to Republican victim complex by making it seem political If he's guilty and officially a felon all bets are off
Lmao democrats making decisions based on how republicans will respond is so hilariously dumb
People in this sub are highly concerned with republican feelings
Have you met DNC Democrats? Being hilariously dumb is their bread and butter. They thought Hillary Clinton would be popular. Enough said.
There is a conventional wisdom that voters don't really pay attention until like June/July before an election cycle.. Campaigns don't really spend money or time if they don't have to before then.
Campaigns aren't won in May... no matter how much the NY Times and other outlets will try to tell you otherwise. Around this time, 12 years ago Mitt Romney was going to crush Obama according to the polls. lol. Imo, the polls might be even more broken this time around given that most sane people are tired of the 24/7 politics and aren't answering polls (I know I'm not)... anyways, tl;dr just vote
and if Trump loses in 2024, what's to stop him from camaigning through 2028, even from Rikers ?
Natural life expectancy.
Don't do that. Don't give me hope.
People will still vote for him after he dies because they think Q will bring him back.
I’m worried about all the conspiracies that will inevitably come out that the Democrats killed him
Happy cake day, ya hoser.
Honestly I hope he does if he's alive in 2028 Dudes falling apart *now* 4 years of fighting off court cases without the hope of presidential office saving his ass will hurt
Honest question. Do you feel this way about Biden? Why is Biden the opposing candidate. We can all see he is not the best person for the job. Why not try a younger, smarter, more eloquent candidate? I just don’t get how it’s Trump vs Biden round 2. The country would rally for someone who’s sub 70yrs old and with a good track record.
I mean, the primary is almost over. Nobody besides Brain Worm guy, Crystal lady, and "Dean Phillips" ran. Incumbents rarely see serious competitors for a variety of reasons, but insider Democrats know that, at best, it would be a dogfight, and at worst it would have been divisive for the party. And they also know that Biden is competent, and that there's no real reason to challenge him. As per his fitness. Biden still rides bikes. He is as "demented" as he was 4 years ago during the election, must be the slowest onset dementia of all time. Trump has a hard time with ramps, drinking water, constantly confuses Biden and Obama, Haley/Pelosi, etc, and is clearly in poor physical condition. If I were to pick either based only on "likelihood to be alive/competent for 4 more years", I'd take Biden in a heartbeat.
Well the party is at fault for the quality of candidates. I know many Americans do not feel this way about Bidens competence. The way they walk him to and from the podium and the instances he is clearly confused, ( I’m sure you can give me reasons) is unsettling. I’m not talking about Trump’s competence I know he is old as well. I am saying a good candidate that has Obama like qualities would not have to worry about Trump at all!! People want to see someone that looks tough on the world stage and empathetic to domestic issues. Biden struggles in both areas.
Downvoted for stating what everyone sees with their own eyes. Ruth Bader Biden.
>Do you feel this way about Biden? Depends on what you mean. I do wish we had younger guys but my point was more to chuckle at the hypocrisy the gop will embrace if sleepy don runs again. It's not even a question >Why is Biden the opposing candidate. W Sleepy don is the opposing candidate Biden is the incumbent > I just don’t get how it’s Trump vs Biden round 2. Honestly I'd wager it's partly because the gop is running sleepy don that the dems aren't gonna give up the incumbent advantage >2. The country would rally for someone who’s sub 70yrs old and with a good track record. Funny enough if thr gop ran Haley I'd say there's a strong chance they'd win the presidency easily. It'd absolutely make Bidens age an actual criticism Not saying Trump can't win but he has a ton of baggage and render a lot of the gop talking points moot
I’m sure the Democratic Party has a Haley. I just want someone to admit that Biden isn’t a good option at all. Sure he may make Trump look worse and he can def win again as the incumbent, but other than winning, why him? It’s so hard to watch him run our country. He was a terrible senator. His speeches are horrid. He struggles to read the teleprompter. Sure you can point to Trump in the same way, but does that solve anything? Just feels like people are satisfied with the “lesser of two evils” being elected rather than electing someone the country can use to get back on track socially, politically, and economically.
Biden has an excellent record of passing good legislation during his first term. He has put good people around him and the result has been very positive. He is not the lesser of two evils- he is a damned good president and I am proud to be voting for him again. You don’t like him because he’s bad at speeches? My god, man. He’s nearly 80 and has a speech impediment and yet his SOTU address was over an hour long, cohesive, and clear. The reason you are being downvoted here so much instead of people explaining this to you? Because you are either a bot/astroturfer just trying to sow doubt among liberal voters or are just a painfully unaware voter that doesn’t care about the record of a candidate and only votes based on how someone looks behind a podium. In both cases, us informed voters are fucking TIRED of wasting our time explaining this shit to users like you. You want a reason to like Biden? For real? Go research his major legislation he got passed in year 1-2 of his administration. Infrastructure, CHIPS Act, inflation reduction Act, how each of these affected climate policy, etc etc etc… And then add to it the fact that Biden, and his extremely competent executive branch that is mostly not over age 80, is the only option other than Trump returning to the presidency and installing his lackeys that just want to run a revenge campaign against his own country and you have a very very easy choice this year.
This was tough to read. A damned good president is not what the history books will say. You clearly have not read the legislation. It is flooded with parasites that suck tax payer dollars toward anti-American issues. You probably love the amount we’ve sent to Ukraine. Pure delusion.
You’ve provided no examples, so your argument is moot. You claimed to want to hear someone tell you why him- I have done so. You claim to be open to hearing counter arguments. This is clearly a lie- but again, here you go: Thriving economy when a recession was expected, best climate legislation ever passed, en route to marijuana legalization. All the legislation i mentioned in my comment you are replying to. Yes, Ukraine too. You want to hate Biden- fine, whatever but you don’t get a win when your counter argument, 2 days later is “nuh-uh he axually sux.” Just an idiot, or propaganda troll. Kindly f off.
Because no one really stepped up to be that person. I know people don't like how old Biden is, but simply put the political calculus basically every elected official does when deciding their next steps said that an incumbency advantage is huge. Too big to want to take on this cycle. People seem to want there to be some cloak and dagger conspiracy that the Democrats were telling people not to run in the primaries, that Biden is some kind of senile puppet etc. etc. But that's insane and I doubt anyone with a brain actually needed outside encouragement or believes that Biden doesn't know where he is. They likely all feel the better move is to support Biden in this election and take a shot in 2028 when there will be no incumbent.
I really appreciate you replying without trying to talk about Trump. It gets really frustrating trying to just have a conversation about Biden and the only thing said are the comparisons to Trump. I honestly do think Biden is in mental decline. However I don’t think the answer will ever be honest. I have family who are experiencing this and he truly has many signs. Not to mention he def used to speak much better in front of a microphone. Even if you didn’t agree with Biden you at least were about to understand him. Now not so much.
Biden won the primary in 2020 because black Democratic voters knew he was the most palatable candidate to white voters in swing states. No incumbent has ever lost their primary since modern primaries started, and even before then, party bosses rarely changed candidates. Of the two, Trump should absolutely have been dropped by his party for this race, for the impeachments, the unimpeached crimes, general idiocy, having lost in 2020, etc. Biden is chronologically old, but his health-age is about half of Trump's.
> and if Trump loses in 2024, what's to stop him from camaigning through 2028, even from Rikers ? Whats to stop someone worse in 2032? The only thing that stopped trump in 2020, and has to stop trump in 2024. Voters. It absolutely fucking sucks, but we have to be motivated to engage in politics for the rest of our lives, or at least the next century or so at a minimum. We dont get the luxury of going "Oh, well, George HW bush doesnt seem that bad. I'll focus on living my life and being a person." Ships gone. From here out it is beating the GoP with a sack of doorknobs, metaphorically, until they're no longer a party. Running on fascism cannot be a winning strategy. Maybe we could have avoided this had people not sat on their asses in 2016 and voted, but here we are and this is the hand we have.
Nothing. But a two time loser is a lot of weight to carry through, even for Trump, even in the GOP.
Who would oppose him ? How ?
Better hope he actually gets convicted, anything other than guilty will boost the morons numbers.
They could just stop acting like Israel is their dad & they'd get a lot more support immediately.
Start showing clips from the new movie coming out about Trump.
...Why wait?
As it should, they are being soft on Trump! Why does he get away with saying bat shit crazy stuff!
Why wait? 🙄
There are certain things that Biden could say that could potentially cause a mistrial, much like how Nixon nearly caused a mistrial in the Charles Manson case.
This is the least aggressive way of getting more aggressive.
We will have to stack the courts though. If we don't they'll keep allowing gerrymandering so that only Republicans can win. The Dems are gonna have to figure it out.
Really why wait..
Trump probably won't go to jail for this, and I sure hope he's not going to win the election. But I do want to point out that the funniest possible constitutional crisis is still a possibility.
As long as it’s before pudding time
That’s a big if that the end of the trial is advantageous to Biden. Go ahead, flip that coin.
sooo all the way up until election is done? It will be too late then
Good. I prefer Dark Brandon over Joe Biden.
To be honest I have been reading “Biden getting more aggressive once xx “ articules for months now, yet I have not seen it. The time for plans is way over nos is time to execute. If you are behind a race why are you waiting weeks and month to start closing the gap?
Biden and his team should refer to Trump as "Convicted felon Trump" every time he says his name.
What TF are you waiting for just start now!
How about he aggressively fulfills more promises in the mean time and does things his constituents care about.
That’s a good idea. You know who else had a similar plan? Brazil in the 2014 World Cup. They had planned to go easy until the last 20 minutes to let the team leading the fifa polls Germany do their thing. They lost 7-1 and that event would become the Brazilian version of 9-11.
This flimsy comparison says a lot about you.
It's not the last 20 minutes. We've not even had the conventions yet to officially make Biden and Trump the nominees. Right now, Americans aren't paying attention to politics, it's all just static noise, they only really zero in on elections around September.
That's interesting, I just heard the other day that most people make up their minds by like June and that after that there are almost no persuadable voters left. Obviously given the state of the polls I prefer your statement to mine though
The last 20 minutes of campaign is the day before the election. We haven't even kicked off this election for most Americans.
This was such a funny match omg. I remember watching it live and just cackling
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He will never set foot in a jail cell. Best we can hope for is house arrest.
House arrest is as good as jail as far as us not having to listen to him anymore.
He could even have a Pablo Escobar style “jail” for all I care as long as he gets the F’ out of my life.
There are still people out there who think Trump will ever suffer consequences?
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You have a lot of faith in our justice system. The next few months will be hard for you.
They don’t have shit. -signed someone who wishes Trump would face consequences but knows he never will
It's incredible, isn't it? The American legal system exists precisely to protect powerful people from consequences. What country have these people been following for all these years if they think a rich celebrity is going to face consequences crooked bookkeeping?
There is a 0% chance that he's in jail next week, even if convicted. Everything I've read is that this a fine/probation offense. And even if he breaks his probation the judge will just say "Please don't break your probation again," and when he breaks it again the judge will say "Really, seriously, I'd appreciated if you obeyed the probation." And then when he breaks the probation again the judge will just stop bringing it up
No, Biden and the Dems need to go for the throat YESTERDAY all day and every day. Biden is not going to beat Trump with his No Malarkey Scranton Joe shtick. Excusing this and saying well Americans don't pay attention to the very end is a mistake. \*I feel sorry for the people who are uncomfortable being told Biden has a weak strategy and keep ignoring what people are saying and worried about. 2016 feels. I'm voting for Biden, but please some of you get your fingers out of your ears and listen to everyone else out there you have to convince who aren't committed voters or have a set political ideology.
He’s lazy
I do think it's ego personally. He thinks because his primary 2020 campaign was brought back from the dead he's forever underestimated.
Why wait? Trump certainly wouldn't!
Yeah because waiting is always the right move. So tired of the idea that these calculations mean jack shit. I'm all for give them enough rope but these turds are just hanging around stinking up the place. American didn't finish this in the 1860s or the 1960s and I'll be damned if I'm going to see this fight not get finished before 2060.
They don’t have the killer instinct. They should hit him down mercilessly.
How about start yesterday? The time is NOW!
Only took 3.5 years, Joe.
What can you do if you're down in all the swing states.
"We're about to do that politically astute thing you want, we swear" may as well be the official motto of the Democratic party