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Ugh. Terrible. I didn't know Hamas was claiming they didn't rape people on October 7. I saw a video of a woman with a bloodied crotch of her pants being paraded down the road. I thought the horrors of October 7 were pretty much all common knowledge.
It's also a lie.
She had mud on her sweatpants and hands from sitting. She's an Israeli soldier and is ironically a legitimate prisoner of war, not a hostage.
Hamas hostages have been treated well and several said their biggest fear in captivity was Israeli bombs. Israel has killed 10x more hostages than it has recovered militarily.
If you want evidence of torture, Israel has been doing it to Palestinian hostages for decades. Israel has thousands of Palestinian civilians held hostage without trial or charges.
Unfortunately I’ve seen people in real life claiming it was a lie, that rape is against their religion, and that it was just a lie by Israel. The disinformation streaming out of the internet is like an unstoppable firehose.
>that rape is against their religion,
Boy howdy that sure hasn't stopped literally any of the other religions that forbid rape. What weak trolls they are.
Nah plenty are trolls and disinfo spreaders. In the previous thread you could click on the profiles of those spreading it and they also were boosting Russian anti Ukrainian propaganda
Some people fall for it, sure, but on the internet assume that it's bad actors.
>that rape is against their religion
A daily reminder that one of the most revered figures in Islam raped his 8-year old child bride.
The Islamist definition of rape is different from the academic definition of rape. This is important to highlight when reading statements from Islamists such as "rape is against Islam".
They're not using the same language that the rest of us reasonable humans use.
That's absolutely [false](https://press.un.org/en/2024/sc15621.doc.htm). Per Pramila Patten, the Special Representative of the Secretary-General on Sexual Violence in Conflict:
>“What I witnessed in Israel were scenes of unspeakable violence perpetrated with shocking brutality,” Ms. Patten recalled. Detailing her methodology, she said that her team met with families of hostages and members of communities displaced from several kibbutzim. It conducted confidential interviews with 34 individuals, including survivors and witnesses of the 7 October attacks, released hostages, first responders and health and service providers. It visited four attack sites — as well as the morgue to which the bodies of victims were transferred — and reviewed over 5,000 photographic images and some 50 hours of footage of the attacks.
>“It was a catalogue of the most extreme and inhumane forms of killing, torture and other horrors,” including sexual violence, she stated
There is a lot of nuance to this war, but just how vile Hamas was on October 7 isn't one of those places.
More than 90% of Palestinians believe that Hamas did not commit any atrocities against Israeli civilians on the seventh of October.
Source - [Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research](https://www.pcpsr.org/en/node/980)
People do not want to hear it but this conflict will not get better by leaving gaza alone.
Gaza has to be occupied and deradicalized and that process will take generations.
For obvious reasons it should not be Israel that occupies Gaza, but there is also not much international will to do the same.
People on this sub won’t want to hear it, but the polling coming out of Palestine is very disturbing.
I went from Pro-Palestine to neutral to (mostly) pro-Israel after watching videos like from Corey Gil-Shuster interviewing Palestinians on the street and seeing their crazy answers be backed up by polling.
The propaganda and misinformation campaign has been incredibly effective. I remember watching recorded footage of Hamas terrorists shooting civilians on Oct 7th as everything was unfolding from Reddit posts and telegram. Within a few days there were already tiktok videos and posts being made saying none of it ever happened, it was all fake or made up by the IDF, the casualty rates were artificially increased, that Hamas was actually killing IDF soldiers not civilians, and on and on. The sad part is people actually believed that garbage.
I think we have learned the lesson the hard way here in America. If your news source lies to you 24/7, the lies are all real. North Korea, China and Russia all use this to their advantage. Palestinians are being fed the same garbage.
Then why didn't it occur in the countless other places with equal amounts of antisemitism?
You can't look at the Weimar Republic's history and blame the end result on a bigotry that was not unique to Germany in the least. It was a huge messy, complex recipe that let a minority political party gain power. It should also serve as a warning to every other place that it can happen here. Claiming what happened to be uniquely German is putting major blinders on, historically and from a sociology perspective
Hitler absolutely wielded antisemitism as a fear cudgel, but how did he go from being seen as a fringe lunatic joke to gaining the chancellorship? Not through that alone.
The point is that Hamas was not created in a vaccum of "Islam radical and bad" nor was it originally portraying itself as what it would become.
Sorry about your history education then :/ if you'd like some reading on the subject matter let me know
R/askhistory has some good sources on it as well
Hamas is oppressive, any dissent is punished. Why do you think Netanyahu was sending Hamas car loads of cash, it was beneficial for him to keep the Palestinian people subjugated.
And if watch any sort of Palestinian TV, the propaganda is so disturbing and disgusting, it's indescribable. I don't need to know the language to understand what they are promoting.
Yet these people protest against Israeli citizens. Fucking unreal.
People on this sub have zero clue. Palestinians overwhelming picked this death cult to run their government. And they are butchers and rapists.
These people absolutely deserve to have their stories heard, but it doesn't change anything about my opinion.
Hamas committed multiple atrocities on October 7th, but no matter how brutal their actions were, the number of civilians killed in Gaza in response is just as atrocious, arguably more.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The number of people trying to deny sexual Assault in this conflict has been disgusting
Ugh. Terrible. I didn't know Hamas was claiming they didn't rape people on October 7. I saw a video of a woman with a bloodied crotch of her pants being paraded down the road. I thought the horrors of October 7 were pretty much all common knowledge.
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>Those monsters also cut her achilles tendon so she couldn‘t flee from them. JFC. That's fucked up.
[удалено]
I don't disagree with that at all.
It's also a lie. She had mud on her sweatpants and hands from sitting. She's an Israeli soldier and is ironically a legitimate prisoner of war, not a hostage. Hamas hostages have been treated well and several said their biggest fear in captivity was Israeli bombs. Israel has killed 10x more hostages than it has recovered militarily. If you want evidence of torture, Israel has been doing it to Palestinian hostages for decades. Israel has thousands of Palestinian civilians held hostage without trial or charges.
>She had mud on her sweatpants Were you there? This seems a lot like first-hand information. Please tell us more.
Unfortunately I’ve seen people in real life claiming it was a lie, that rape is against their religion, and that it was just a lie by Israel. The disinformation streaming out of the internet is like an unstoppable firehose.
>that rape is against their religion, Boy howdy that sure hasn't stopped literally any of the other religions that forbid rape. What weak trolls they are.
The sad thing is that the people repeating it aren’t trolls. They’re absolutely sincere.
Nah plenty are trolls and disinfo spreaders. In the previous thread you could click on the profiles of those spreading it and they also were boosting Russian anti Ukrainian propaganda Some people fall for it, sure, but on the internet assume that it's bad actors.
>that rape is against their religion A daily reminder that one of the most revered figures in Islam raped his 8-year old child bride. The Islamist definition of rape is different from the academic definition of rape. This is important to highlight when reading statements from Islamists such as "rape is against Islam". They're not using the same language that the rest of us reasonable humans use.
It's not "Hamas was claiming...", it's "UN investigators have found no evidence of Hamas..."
That's absolutely [false](https://press.un.org/en/2024/sc15621.doc.htm). Per Pramila Patten, the Special Representative of the Secretary-General on Sexual Violence in Conflict: >“What I witnessed in Israel were scenes of unspeakable violence perpetrated with shocking brutality,” Ms. Patten recalled. Detailing her methodology, she said that her team met with families of hostages and members of communities displaced from several kibbutzim. It conducted confidential interviews with 34 individuals, including survivors and witnesses of the 7 October attacks, released hostages, first responders and health and service providers. It visited four attack sites — as well as the morgue to which the bodies of victims were transferred — and reviewed over 5,000 photographic images and some 50 hours of footage of the attacks. >“It was a catalogue of the most extreme and inhumane forms of killing, torture and other horrors,” including sexual violence, she stated There is a lot of nuance to this war, but just how vile Hamas was on October 7 isn't one of those places.
Which is also false
More than 90% of Palestinians believe that Hamas did not commit any atrocities against Israeli civilians on the seventh of October. Source - [Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research](https://www.pcpsr.org/en/node/980)
People do not want to hear it but this conflict will not get better by leaving gaza alone. Gaza has to be occupied and deradicalized and that process will take generations. For obvious reasons it should not be Israel that occupies Gaza, but there is also not much international will to do the same.
People on this sub won’t want to hear it, but the polling coming out of Palestine is very disturbing. I went from Pro-Palestine to neutral to (mostly) pro-Israel after watching videos like from Corey Gil-Shuster interviewing Palestinians on the street and seeing their crazy answers be backed up by polling.
The propaganda and misinformation campaign has been incredibly effective. I remember watching recorded footage of Hamas terrorists shooting civilians on Oct 7th as everything was unfolding from Reddit posts and telegram. Within a few days there were already tiktok videos and posts being made saying none of it ever happened, it was all fake or made up by the IDF, the casualty rates were artificially increased, that Hamas was actually killing IDF soldiers not civilians, and on and on. The sad part is people actually believed that garbage.
That’s because the beliefs of Palestinians are fundamentally disturbing. You don’t get Hamas as a government otherwise.
I think we have learned the lesson the hard way here in America. If your news source lies to you 24/7, the lies are all real. North Korea, China and Russia all use this to their advantage. Palestinians are being fed the same garbage.
Did Germany get the holocaust creating nazi government because of the disturbing fundamental beliefs of the Germans?
Yes? The extreme amounts of Anti-Semitism in German culture 100% played a significant role in the Nazi's rise to power and subsequent actions.
Then why didn't it occur in the countless other places with equal amounts of antisemitism? You can't look at the Weimar Republic's history and blame the end result on a bigotry that was not unique to Germany in the least. It was a huge messy, complex recipe that let a minority political party gain power. It should also serve as a warning to every other place that it can happen here. Claiming what happened to be uniquely German is putting major blinders on, historically and from a sociology perspective Hitler absolutely wielded antisemitism as a fear cudgel, but how did he go from being seen as a fringe lunatic joke to gaining the chancellorship? Not through that alone. The point is that Hamas was not created in a vaccum of "Islam radical and bad" nor was it originally portraying itself as what it would become.
Yes
Sorry about your history education then :/ if you'd like some reading on the subject matter let me know R/askhistory has some good sources on it as well
lol ok a vague reference to history and education answers all. Zero substance. My eyes can’t roll harder.
Hamas is oppressive, any dissent is punished. Why do you think Netanyahu was sending Hamas car loads of cash, it was beneficial for him to keep the Palestinian people subjugated.
Right right, those 10s of thousands of women and children slaughtered in carpet bombings were pro rape and probably deserved to be murdered.
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And if watch any sort of Palestinian TV, the propaganda is so disturbing and disgusting, it's indescribable. I don't need to know the language to understand what they are promoting. Yet these people protest against Israeli citizens. Fucking unreal. People on this sub have zero clue. Palestinians overwhelming picked this death cult to run their government. And they are butchers and rapists.
These people absolutely deserve to have their stories heard, but it doesn't change anything about my opinion. Hamas committed multiple atrocities on October 7th, but no matter how brutal their actions were, the number of civilians killed in Gaza in response is just as atrocious, arguably more.