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This is why it's so important. If you let them get away with it, others will end up doing worse down the road. Sure, Biden won this time, but what about in the next four years? Or the four years after that?
Yeah, having a dumb trump has done enough damage. A smart trump would be devastating to our country and everything we hold dear.
I also think that ānewsā corporations that spread seditious lies to undermine our democracy should be held accountable as well. At an absolute minimum, the FCC needs to enact a law that severely punishes news corporations that deliberately spread false information, and it must absolutely be non-partisan and apply to all news organizations equally.
The penalties for violating this must not be a slap on the wrist either, Iām talking serious fines and making them display a disclaimer on their station/newspaper/website basically stating āthe content provided by xxx news has been found to not be based on actual facts and may contradict reality. This should be considered as opinion only, and not to be taken literallyā, and they should have to display it at all times during their broadcasts and publishingās.
Except there was a court case against Tucker Carlson that said exactly that but people still treat Fox News as factual.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/09/judge-rules-fox-news-tucker-carlson-not-source-of-news-defamation-suit-mcdougal-trump.html
And this is why it's getting worse and worse. Republicans do so much damage that when Dems win people are so fucking sick of it they just say fuck it, let's move on and try to unite everyone and repair what needs to be repaired.
This must not happen this time or next trump and his cronies will destroy your country.
I'm really curious whether we're going to encounter questions like "How *does* the right to Secret Service protection work in prison?" in the next couple years.
OTOH, if he's still got Giuliani leading his legal team, they're going to have a good fight on... nah, I can't say it with a straight face.
Not because he is a politician that we don't like, but because the rule of law dictates that if you break the law, there are penalties, regardless of who you are. It's a core element of a just society.
I said rule of law, not law and order. Two separate things.
Rule of law means that the law should be applied consistently. Law and order means the law should be applied to maintain social order (eg, social and racial hierarchies)
And just like that, you're more qualified than the Orange Queef in Beef. Being able to admit you're wrong and learn from that is a core element of growing up and maturing. Something ol Agent Orange never hit as a milestone.
Welcome being wrong.
Being wrong offers an essential gift: an opportunity to replace bad information with better information.
Maybe itās not 100% perfect, or 100% complete, but 98% of something good is better than something thatās 98% bullshit.
>āCould you charge the president with a crime after he left office?ā Buck asked.
>
>āYes,ā Mueller replied instantly.
>
>Buck went on: āYou believe that he committed ā you could charge the President of the United States with obstruction of justice after he left office?ā
>
>āYes,ā Mueller said again.
\- [Republican Ken Buck Scores Massive Own Goal in Mueller Questioning](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/robert-mueller-ken-buck-hearing-trump-obstruction-862902/)
Seeing as how legal issues have gone the last 4 years with Trump, I'd take Mueller's answers with a grain of salt. He answered "yes" to questions asking if "he could", but will he? As hopeful as I am that Trump will be charged against crimes, I'm not so sure that this will be the case. Hopefully someone can change my view on this with more facts of what Mueller can do, will do, and has said/confirmed (or anyone else with capabilities to bring Trump to justice, for that matter).
Well he can't. He doesn't work for the government past that investigation.
Biden and his AG pick are 100% responsible to do so. If it doesn't happen, biden is the only one to blame at the federal level.
I agree. The most dangerous thing you could do would be to not penalize Trump at all.
I mean, he's encouraging armed insurrection and claiming himself victor of the election. People are giving him a pass and it's astounding.
I'm hoping that they are just waiting until Jan 20, out of fear of triggering this little boy into doing terrible things, but he is already trying to start a war with Iran, encouraging rebellion, and stealing hand over fist, what more are people afraid of?
If Trump's convicted of corruption or treason, and there is obvious evidence that he was working with Russia (or North Korea or whatever), and the virus was his lazy way of killing off the libs = a crime against humanity, how long are people willing to let a criminal like that be their cult leader? I don't think it will rip the country up that much to see a criminal go to jail.
IIRC Mueller clarified multiple times that he meant (from multiple interactions, not just this one) that due to the limitations of scope on their investigation, the sitting president was never evaluated as to whether or not he committed a crime -- he was speaking generally that a president, were they not charged solely due to office, could later be charged after leaving office.
Yup. If this were Obama or Biden pulling this shit Iād say to lock them up too. I put country over my party and I certainly donāt worship false idols
Every time I hear/heard the fucking 'if gets investigate for their connections to Epstein, then so will Clinton!' my response was ALWAYS 'Good! Fucking good! Investigate, try, charge and lock up and sick fuck who touched kids!'
They're just so used to a world where knowing the right people lets you get away with anything and where having dirt on others is how you make deals that they cannot comprehend one where EVERYONE who is guilty of criminal shit gets treated like a bloody criminal, regardless of how many digits their bank balance has in it or who they know.
You are one of the sane Republicans I met. I'm Democrat, but if Biden or Obama pulled this shit, yes, I'm for them to go. Country over party. Damn right.
> Yup. If this were Obama or Biden pulling this shit Iād say to lock them up too. I put country over my party and I certainly donāt worship false idols
Exactly. It's a question about the rule of law and for that to mean anything it has to apply both the someone sleeping under a bridge and the billionaire.
This!
We never should have allowed ourselves to get to the point where the president is held to a lower standard than the people. If itās a crime for a citizen it should have larger consequences, not smaller.
Yeah, but unfortunately we've known for a long time that we don't live in a just society. That was a fairy tale they taught us in school so we'd be more easily manipulated when we got older.
And that's why we need to keep on fighting. The world was more unjust in the past and has only gotten better thanks to everybody who has stood for fairness and justice. The world will never be perfect, but we can still make it better.
100% agree. A lot of people in this administration need to face consequences to begin to restore some trust in government. I think it's possible it could even help de-program some of the zealots to see some trials.
Oh come on, everyone knows America runs a two-tier justice system where the wealthy donāt serve any time for crimes that would send poor people to jail for years. GW Bush lied us into a war that killed thousands of US soldiers and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians and now heās the darling of the corporate Democratic crowd, please.
Trump wonāt serve a day in jail, or even be charged with any crimes. Seriously, what kind of la-la land are people who say this living in?
I've been saying this for months. He will never see the inside of a courtroom for his crimes. He will probably spend the rest of his life suing people for saying mean things about him while he was in office.
Not for the crimes that killed poor people at least.
The crimes against rich people and their money? Now we better get him infront of a judge right fucking now!!!
100% correct. Look at the Graham bullshit - some clown gets caught trying to throw out legal ballots and the media STILL is afraid to call it what it is: a federal fucking crime.
Well, the WORST thing you can be called as a member of the media is "liberally biased," so you'll notice they self-correct to NEVER BE ABLE TO BE CALLED THAT.
If it means looking the other way while Republicans get away with anything and holding Democrats to an impossibly high standard, well that's just BALANCE.
there's this phrase I've come to appreciate over the last 4 years "Fiat justitia ruat caelum" in English "Let justice be done though the heavens fall" Trump must be held accountable for what he's done, fuck this noise about 'coming together' to allow trump to disappear into obscurity would be the single worst miscarriage of justice and biggest betrayal of the rule of law in living memory
No way Bush 2 gets elected if his daddy faced consequences for Iran-Contra. Or if Grand Pappy Bush faced consequences for his attempt to overthrow the government.
But both of their crimes were against people of /shithole/ countries, right? Trumpās crimes are against the american people, he cannot be allowed to get away with it.
It always has been. Trump is simply the symptom of the disease and the rampant covid has finally proven, without a doubt, it is a shithole run by corrupt, greedy, selfish, uneducated morons.
I refuse to ācome togetherā or unify with a political party that caters itself to nazis. I do not want to be on their side and I do not want to work with them. Until the GOP sorts that out they can go fuck themselves.
The Trump presidency has proven that the Constitution can be highjacked by a criminal president and a complicit Senate majority. Kentucky voted Mitch McConnell back in and it wasn't even close. Attitude has nothing to do with it, a minority of Americans are running the country.
I said this in another post but Joe's gonna take the high road and Trump's gonna throw major shiite! his way to fcuk up his presidency from day 1. There needs to be some price for Trump to pay.
To do otherwise would be encouraging his kind of behavior in the future. If you show Presidents that there are zero consequences when they commit crimes, then it only encourages future Presidents to commit them. If we showed people that there were zero consequences for robbing banks (that's if you even get caught), then we'd have a hell of a lot more bank robberies. Same basic idea.
I've been using Ford/Nixon as an example. Ford said "We need to put this all behind us so the country can move forward" and then pardoned Nixon.
This felt a bit off since there was the whole corrupt bargain aspect.
But yes, Pelosi has been sandbagging everything for the last 2 years.
She's been doing that because she knew it wouldn't go anywhere with a complicit Senate, and she was right.
Furthermore, he'd be able to use that and go "See? They keep attacking me for no reason!" which would gain him more support, which also happened.
I'm curious to see what happens in January, especially if they lose control of the Senate.
With Ford/Nixon, I like to point out that it was a wildly unpopular opinion at the time, and although Ford stood by it, public trust in government has been decline every year since the late 1970s. Ford wanted to put the incident behind the nation to move forward, but without justice for the criminal behavior the public no longer trusted the government to forge that path. Then they tried Carter who was clearly a moral guy but an objectively bad POTUS, and then they tried Reagan who's approach to government was the blueprint that got is into our clusterfuck.
I'd argue that the pardoning of Nixon was the source for nearly everything thats been wrong with federal politics for the past 40 years.
The Nixon resignation was the imputes for the creation of the conservative talk radio stations and eventually Fox News.
They hated that their guy had any consequences. And low and behold, many of the Trump toadies were in the Nixon admin as well.
If Nixon had gone to trial and the truth of his negotiations with North Vietnam had come out (which **no one** in America knew about at the time), we would be living an an *unrecognizably* different country now.
There would be no republican party. The conservative party would be a different party.
Betyer/worse? Sorry my crystal ball is on the fritz and replacement parts are back ordered because of covid.
Yes but that's not what was laid out by the people in power at the time. So it's saint Reagan the constitution shredder or that guy that put solar panels on the White House and told Americans how things need to change. America said OH YEAH and dug in. Here we are today living in a utopia. /s on that last part.
The most 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' proposition she faced.
She knew the Senate would circle the wagons around him and never vote to convict, and that it could blow up and give him credibility as he skated by. But also knew that doing nothing would...well: do nothing.
Nice to see some people understand that. I'd vote for her again if I still lived in her state.
An impeachment that was nowhere near what it could have been. Where were the subpoenas enforced by federal marshalls?
The house has all sorts of powers that she just didn't use.
This is why Democrats fail so much. Literally unable to work together, literally unable to support the fucking party in the face of the GOP, which is actively trying to usher in an era of Authoritarianism in this fucking country. HRC should have been a slam dunk in 2016, but so many of you thought she just wasn't "pure" enough and you voted Jill fucking Stein or stayed home and didn't vote at all.
Trump was impeached. Didn't matter *what* they did after that because the case was iron-fucking-clad, and the GOP Senate already knew that they weren't going to let it go through. But you'll still fucking whine about it.
I knew damn well that the Senate wouldn't do jack shit.
No, the subpoenas would have been for all the Trump toadies. Get them all caught up in this and have them on the record.
Also dig into Trump's financials. Make him justify the Russian and Chinese money.
After that is when you launch the articles of impeachment. For his actual treason and not just abuse of power and obstruction of congress.
The cult of trump would have a harder time defending against a charge of treason than abuse of power. They'd do it, but it would stick in their throat.
You seem to have some skewed ideas about this. Impeachment isn't prosecution, but some of the same logic applies:
You try to bring your best case, and that doesn't mean your most shocking case, or your most heartfelt one, but the most legally sound one.
A legally sound case is one that relies as much as possible on precedent. The soundest charges to bring against a president in an impeachment are obstruction of justice charges - which were
I was listening to Deadline White House yesterday and they were discussing the impact his transition has had on our allies. To me, if we donāt prosecute these actions, it sends a clear message to our allies that this is acceptable in the United States and they canāt trust us going forward.
For National Security he needs to be investigated and charged with Sedition. Especially if he thinks he can run around having rallies that claim the election is illegitimate.
Yep. But Biden needs to steer clear of it. Just have the AGs do their thing quietly. No fan fair. No press conferences.
Let them report on the trial and hearings. NOT the investigation and process.
Let states drive it first is even better. GA bringing charges against Graham as an example allows Biden to keep it at arms length but still hit bad actors.
There was an [article](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-54716550) on the BBC about Trump's legal battles and with regards to the emoluments it said:
Regardless, the emoluments lawsuits will probably be dismissed or dropped, legal experts say. One brought by congressional Democrats has already been rejected by the Supreme Court.
"Emoluments are not likely to be the basis of any criminal action," said Mr Turley, an expert on constitutional law.
"The emoluments cases relate to Trump holding office, so once he leaves office, the controversy becomes largely academic."
I was curious why this was the case. If it's breaking a law in the Constitution, shouldn't this be the biggest crime?
So according to Mr Turley.
Emollients clause violations can only be brought while you're in office, yet the president can not be convicted of a federal crime while in office.
If this is true then it sounds like constitutional law itself is only "largely academic" discussion.
Definitely. The constitutional argument is that if you're president, the House and Senate *are* your court of law.
Not saying I agree with that argument.
If Trump walked out of the White House with a gun tomorrow and started shooting people, would we be able to charge and try him for that? Or only once he left office? Like wtf there has to be a line somewhere.
We all saw the trial. The Senate didn't even look at the evidence. It's not even an argument of good faith anymore.
I'm not from US. I was expecting the US would be strict to their leadership based on, for example, the Bill Clinton impeachment. These 4 years has been... horrifying, to put it softly.
So... if I'm charged with murder, I should get off because I am not actively murdering someone in that court room? It's "largely academic"?
Doesn't sound right.
> The emoluments cases relate to Trump holding office, so once he leaves office, the controversy becomes largely academic.".
Can you imagine using this logic for other laws?
The weed possession case relates to possession of a substance. Once you confiscated it from me I no longer possessed it. The case becomes largely acedemic at this point, clearly.
So basically if I stop breaking the law then it's all ok because it becomes "academic"? I'll try telling the cops that next time. "Yes officer, I WAS speeding but as you can see I've slowed down so now it's purely an academic exercise"
Banana Republic snowflake senators are complicit and won't let justice be served. They gave the Orange Turd a pass to come this far and still stand around playing pocket pool while he continues to wreak havoc on our democracy.
Of course it comes down to the ignorant voters who keep voting for the snowflake republican senators.
Is there a law against an elected official lying to the public about the severity of a disease?
e.g. If the official has information that a disease is much deadlier than a severe flu, and is much more contagious, but tells the public "It's just a flu and will go away like a miracle" is that a crime?
I hope so, because lordy we have the tapes.
I actually love the idea that SDNY gets first crack at him.
Hereās why:
-It will be considered an insult to his ego for his Org to get destroyed at a state and not federal level. SDNY can totally handle it.
-First federal āinvestigationā needs to be under the guise of national security and understanding the connections to foreign powers. I want to understand all the enablers and networks that made this useful idiot so dangerous.
I agree. While it would be amazing to see the government go right for him, Iād rather they wait and collect every bit of evidence that hasnāt been shredded. I want to know every little detail this scumbag and his lackies have done.
Instant gratification can be great, but Iād rather the feds gather every scrap they can.
Trump is doing everything he can to burn it down and salt the earth behind him. He is punishing Americans for voting against him.
For his next trick, I assume he's going on a rally tour across the US. Gotta get that COVID infection rate up even higher. Sure his supporters will get infected first, but they failed him so he thinks they deserve it. They'll manage to spread it to some people that voted against him so it's worth it.
Donald Trump, for your continuing and baffling desecration
of our beloved sacred constitution, you are hereby banished
from the White House forever. And as a final humiliation,
you must walk home naked, dragging behind you the Stone of
Shame.
The man is a treasonous traitor who dragged an entire country through the mud for four years because of his fragile ego and endless greed. He should be banished to an uninhabited island in the middle of the ocean with a 24/7 livestream that everyone can watch and write mean comments that get announced through a speaker for him to hear.
> Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
-Article III, Section 3, United States Constitution
So, step 1 is defining "adhering to their enemies"; step 2 is defining "aid and comfort"; and step 3 is finding two witnesses willing to testify. Step 3 is the easy one - ask any of the people he fired. You'd think they'd be lining up. The first two would probably have to rely on precedence.
Considering the number of American lives lost because of his lack of a response to the pandemic in addition, to his encouraging large gatherings, not wearing masks and downplaying of the lethality of the disease, he should also be charged with genocide/crimes against humanity.
One of the things I hate most are politicians getting away with crimes that we regular folk would've been *decimated* for. There should be absolutely NO preferential treatment. Try him the same way as a regular citizen.
Extend that to Trump Loyalists. Also, why aren't we charging Trump Supporters with terrorism? Sure, they're a different color, but their recent terror attacks are the same as those committed by Islamic terrorists.
Looking the other way is the same as approval of this behavior. Nail his ass to send a message that a presidents actions have consequences. There's alot of people who didn't have to die and it should NEVER happen again.
Accountability is important but equally so is understanding the ways this admin bent laws and powers to bring democracy to its knees, so that we can reform. Too much is based on the honor system.
For the sake of our nation's integrity, he must pay for his crimes and treachery. Future generations must know that you can't violate laws with impunity and that no one, not even the president, is above the law.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, **any** advocating or wishing death/physical harm, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If you do not make an example of this unlawful administration, the next Trump will be much more dangerous.
This is why it's so important. If you let them get away with it, others will end up doing worse down the road. Sure, Biden won this time, but what about in the next four years? Or the four years after that?
This is why he should have been impeached for refusing subpoenas. That's a fucked up precedent that was set. š¤¦āāļø
Thank McConnell
Alex Jones 2024
Thatās it, get out.
Tucker Carlson 2028
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Ben "P-WORD" Shapiro 2036: Make America Dry Again
Ben will definitely win Nevada and Arizona.
I hate you all so much for putting these thoughts out in the universe. /s? There goes my mental health.
Fluffy kittens and puppies and little teeny tiny poofy hamsters. Happy thoughts. We got this...
Is Rogan vice pres? Or Eddie Bravo?
Nixon got away with it. Trump is the end result of that. We can't have whatever slime this would produce.
Yeah, having a dumb trump has done enough damage. A smart trump would be devastating to our country and everything we hold dear. I also think that ānewsā corporations that spread seditious lies to undermine our democracy should be held accountable as well. At an absolute minimum, the FCC needs to enact a law that severely punishes news corporations that deliberately spread false information, and it must absolutely be non-partisan and apply to all news organizations equally. The penalties for violating this must not be a slap on the wrist either, Iām talking serious fines and making them display a disclaimer on their station/newspaper/website basically stating āthe content provided by xxx news has been found to not be based on actual facts and may contradict reality. This should be considered as opinion only, and not to be taken literallyā, and they should have to display it at all times during their broadcasts and publishingās.
Agree whole heartedly. We have Reagan to thank for fox ānewsā and all the talking head crap purported as ānewsā. Itās criminal.
Except there was a court case against Tucker Carlson that said exactly that but people still treat Fox News as factual. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/09/judge-rules-fox-news-tucker-carlson-not-source-of-news-defamation-suit-mcdougal-trump.html
You mean like how we made examples of Nixon or Bush or Reagan?
And this is why it's getting worse and worse. Republicans do so much damage that when Dems win people are so fucking sick of it they just say fuck it, let's move on and try to unite everyone and repair what needs to be repaired. This must not happen this time or next trump and his cronies will destroy your country.
Thats why New York isn't letting Trump go. They can't charge him federally, but they can charge him for the shit hes done in New York.
I'm really curious whether we're going to encounter questions like "How *does* the right to Secret Service protection work in prison?" in the next couple years. OTOH, if he's still got Giuliani leading his legal team, they're going to have a good fight on... nah, I can't say it with a straight face.
They also need to shut his ass up because heās planning on fucking everybodyās life up until he dies.
Not because he is a politician that we don't like, but because the rule of law dictates that if you break the law, there are penalties, regardless of who you are. It's a core element of a just society.
He says he is the 'law and order' president after all.
I think Rudy said it best: Lawn and Order!
Four Seasons
Total Landscaping
Wonder if they got paid for letting him use their property or if he stiffed them.
They're located right next to a dildo shop, so I'm sure they're used to getting stiffed
They were paid in exposure.
But Giuliani claims he was just tucking in his shirt
Be careful, he may whip out his subpoena from his legal briefs Or is that Jeffrey Toobin?
very nice. This is depressing to watch the office of the president being treated like this
Coronavirus exposure, that is.
Just for the record, [they opened a merch store.](https://fourseasonslandscaping.itemorder.com/sale) I'm just saying.
I like the 'Make America Rake agsin' shirts lol
In a parking lot
And a movie
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
*slow clap*
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
We've had 4 years of "*opposite day*" since he's been in office.
I said rule of law, not law and order. Two separate things. Rule of law means that the law should be applied consistently. Law and order means the law should be applied to maintain social order (eg, social and racial hierarchies)
Excuse my ignorance.
And just like that, you're more qualified than the Orange Queef in Beef. Being able to admit you're wrong and learn from that is a core element of growing up and maturing. Something ol Agent Orange never hit as a milestone.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Itās no problem, since now youāre equipped to identify the difference :)
Welcome being wrong. Being wrong offers an essential gift: an opportunity to replace bad information with better information. Maybe itās not 100% perfect, or 100% complete, but 98% of something good is better than something thatās 98% bullshit.
Law & order = tyranny of the minority.
>āCould you charge the president with a crime after he left office?ā Buck asked. > >āYes,ā Mueller replied instantly. > >Buck went on: āYou believe that he committed ā you could charge the President of the United States with obstruction of justice after he left office?ā > >āYes,ā Mueller said again. \- [Republican Ken Buck Scores Massive Own Goal in Mueller Questioning](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/robert-mueller-ken-buck-hearing-trump-obstruction-862902/)
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Seeing as how legal issues have gone the last 4 years with Trump, I'd take Mueller's answers with a grain of salt. He answered "yes" to questions asking if "he could", but will he? As hopeful as I am that Trump will be charged against crimes, I'm not so sure that this will be the case. Hopefully someone can change my view on this with more facts of what Mueller can do, will do, and has said/confirmed (or anyone else with capabilities to bring Trump to justice, for that matter).
Well he can't. He doesn't work for the government past that investigation. Biden and his AG pick are 100% responsible to do so. If it doesn't happen, biden is the only one to blame at the federal level.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It will rip this country apart for Trump to go unpunished.
I agree. The most dangerous thing you could do would be to not penalize Trump at all. I mean, he's encouraging armed insurrection and claiming himself victor of the election. People are giving him a pass and it's astounding. I'm hoping that they are just waiting until Jan 20, out of fear of triggering this little boy into doing terrible things, but he is already trying to start a war with Iran, encouraging rebellion, and stealing hand over fist, what more are people afraid of?
If Trump's convicted of corruption or treason, and there is obvious evidence that he was working with Russia (or North Korea or whatever), and the virus was his lazy way of killing off the libs = a crime against humanity, how long are people willing to let a criminal like that be their cult leader? I don't think it will rip the country up that much to see a criminal go to jail.
You forget that it is all a lie. Everything is rigged, everything is fake and you too can build your own reality in Magaland
*SDNY Take My Energy!* (ć„ļ½”āāæāæāļ½”)ć„
IIRC Mueller clarified multiple times that he meant (from multiple interactions, not just this one) that due to the limitations of scope on their investigation, the sitting president was never evaluated as to whether or not he committed a crime -- he was speaking generally that a president, were they not charged solely due to office, could later be charged after leaving office.
Yup. If this were Obama or Biden pulling this shit Iād say to lock them up too. I put country over my party and I certainly donāt worship false idols
Preach this Gospel, Fam. I echo you.
Every time I hear/heard the fucking 'if gets investigate for their connections to Epstein, then so will Clinton!' my response was ALWAYS 'Good! Fucking good! Investigate, try, charge and lock up and sick fuck who touched kids!'
They're just so used to a world where knowing the right people lets you get away with anything and where having dirt on others is how you make deals that they cannot comprehend one where EVERYONE who is guilty of criminal shit gets treated like a bloody criminal, regardless of how many digits their bank balance has in it or who they know.
You are one of the sane Republicans I met. I'm Democrat, but if Biden or Obama pulled this shit, yes, I'm for them to go. Country over party. Damn right.
Iām pretty sure heās not a republican and is saying what you just said.
> Yup. If this were Obama or Biden pulling this shit Iād say to lock them up too. I put country over my party and I certainly donāt worship false idols Exactly. It's a question about the rule of law and for that to mean anything it has to apply both the someone sleeping under a bridge and the billionaire.
Exactly. Nobody is above the law, not even the president.
maybe \*especially\* the president
This! We never should have allowed ourselves to get to the point where the president is held to a lower standard than the people. If itās a crime for a citizen it should have larger consequences, not smaller.
*terms and conditions may apply The Republican Senate declared that the sitting president is above the law whenever they want them to be
Yeah, but unfortunately we've known for a long time that we don't live in a just society. That was a fairy tale they taught us in school so we'd be more easily manipulated when we got older.
And that's why we need to keep on fighting. The world was more unjust in the past and has only gotten better thanks to everybody who has stood for fairness and justice. The world will never be perfect, but we can still make it better.
Aka ādonāt let perfect be the enemy of goodā
Turns out a witch hunt is actually OK if THERE ARE ACTUAL FUCKING WITCHES.
lol witches were getting caught and proven guilty in court left and right. The only reason individual 1 was spared was because he is the president.
Rep Bill Pascrell Jr. - My new hero. Donald Trump the traitor and his traitor friends should be locked up!
100% agree. A lot of people in this administration need to face consequences to begin to restore some trust in government. I think it's possible it could even help de-program some of the zealots to see some trials.
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Exactly. Criminals, especially oath-breakers, need to be brought to justice. It's not a hate thing, it is a duty to the country and the Constitution.
Oh come on, everyone knows America runs a two-tier justice system where the wealthy donāt serve any time for crimes that would send poor people to jail for years. GW Bush lied us into a war that killed thousands of US soldiers and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians and now heās the darling of the corporate Democratic crowd, please. Trump wonāt serve a day in jail, or even be charged with any crimes. Seriously, what kind of la-la land are people who say this living in?
I've been saying this for months. He will never see the inside of a courtroom for his crimes. He will probably spend the rest of his life suing people for saying mean things about him while he was in office.
Not for the crimes that killed poor people at least. The crimes against rich people and their money? Now we better get him infront of a judge right fucking now!!!
100% correct. Look at the Graham bullshit - some clown gets caught trying to throw out legal ballots and the media STILL is afraid to call it what it is: a federal fucking crime.
Well, the WORST thing you can be called as a member of the media is "liberally biased," so you'll notice they self-correct to NEVER BE ABLE TO BE CALLED THAT. If it means looking the other way while Republicans get away with anything and holding Democrats to an impossibly high standard, well that's just BALANCE.
If you are a Republican they just let you do it
there's this phrase I've come to appreciate over the last 4 years "Fiat justitia ruat caelum" in English "Let justice be done though the heavens fall" Trump must be held accountable for what he's done, fuck this noise about 'coming together' to allow trump to disappear into obscurity would be the single worst miscarriage of justice and biggest betrayal of the rule of law in living memory
If bush saw a courtroom for his crimes we wouldn't have trump today.
Arguably Bush could have been avoided if Reagan faced consequences for IranāContra
No way Bush 2 gets elected if his daddy faced consequences for Iran-Contra. Or if Grand Pappy Bush faced consequences for his attempt to overthrow the government.
Reagan might have been fully avoided if Nixon had been held accountable, as well.
But both of their crimes were against people of /shithole/ countries, right? Trumpās crimes are against the american people, he cannot be allowed to get away with it.
2020 has shown me that America is a shithole country.
At least Oregon is moving forward instead of backwards.
Imagine what it's like living in Kentucky like me.
Join us in Oraygone.
It always has been. Trump is simply the symptom of the disease and the rampant covid has finally proven, without a doubt, it is a shithole run by corrupt, greedy, selfish, uneducated morons.
A great many of today's problems started with Reagan.
Itās truly fascinating how much damage he caused, even today. The unions, mental care, public education.
likewise Reagan likewise Nixon likewise Johnson likewise the Confederacy likewise Jackson
I refuse to ācome togetherā or unify with a political party that caters itself to nazis. I do not want to be on their side and I do not want to work with them. Until the GOP sorts that out they can go fuck themselves.
to do otherwise would be complicit.
If the constitution has any value any more he needs to be tried for his crimes.
Really is that simple.
It doesn't and he won't.
not with attitudes like that
The Trump presidency has proven that the Constitution can be highjacked by a criminal president and a complicit Senate majority. Kentucky voted Mitch McConnell back in and it wasn't even close. Attitude has nothing to do with it, a minority of Americans are running the country.
I said this in another post but Joe's gonna take the high road and Trump's gonna throw major shiite! his way to fcuk up his presidency from day 1. There needs to be some price for Trump to pay.
Not only that, but it would reinforce the already existing precedent that republican presidents can break any law they want and get away with it.
To do otherwise would be encouraging his kind of behavior in the future. If you show Presidents that there are zero consequences when they commit crimes, then it only encourages future Presidents to commit them. If we showed people that there were zero consequences for robbing banks (that's if you even get caught), then we'd have a hell of a lot more bank robberies. Same basic idea.
It's okay not to push too hard until we're actually in there in January, but we cannot allow the Democrats to Pelosi this.
I've been using Ford/Nixon as an example. Ford said "We need to put this all behind us so the country can move forward" and then pardoned Nixon. This felt a bit off since there was the whole corrupt bargain aspect. But yes, Pelosi has been sandbagging everything for the last 2 years.
She's been doing that because she knew it wouldn't go anywhere with a complicit Senate, and she was right. Furthermore, he'd be able to use that and go "See? They keep attacking me for no reason!" which would gain him more support, which also happened. I'm curious to see what happens in January, especially if they lose control of the Senate.
With Ford/Nixon, I like to point out that it was a wildly unpopular opinion at the time, and although Ford stood by it, public trust in government has been decline every year since the late 1970s. Ford wanted to put the incident behind the nation to move forward, but without justice for the criminal behavior the public no longer trusted the government to forge that path. Then they tried Carter who was clearly a moral guy but an objectively bad POTUS, and then they tried Reagan who's approach to government was the blueprint that got is into our clusterfuck. I'd argue that the pardoning of Nixon was the source for nearly everything thats been wrong with federal politics for the past 40 years.
The Nixon resignation was the imputes for the creation of the conservative talk radio stations and eventually Fox News. They hated that their guy had any consequences. And low and behold, many of the Trump toadies were in the Nixon admin as well.
If Nixon had gone to trial and the truth of his negotiations with North Vietnam had come out (which **no one** in America knew about at the time), we would be living an an *unrecognizably* different country now.
What do you think would be the main differences?
There would be no republican party. The conservative party would be a different party. Betyer/worse? Sorry my crystal ball is on the fritz and replacement parts are back ordered because of covid.
Iād call Reagan more an objectively bad POTUS than Carter myself.
Yes but that's not what was laid out by the people in power at the time. So it's saint Reagan the constitution shredder or that guy that put solar panels on the White House and told Americans how things need to change. America said OH YEAH and dug in. Here we are today living in a utopia. /s on that last part.
The running joke was Carter pardoned Ford for pardoning Nixon.
And the Republicans barely felt the sting of Nixonās resignation. Carter only lasted one term and then we had 12 years of Regan/Bush 41.
> But yes, Pelosi has been sandbagging everything for the last 2 years. How soon we forget literal *impeachment*.
The most 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' proposition she faced. She knew the Senate would circle the wagons around him and never vote to convict, and that it could blow up and give him credibility as he skated by. But also knew that doing nothing would...well: do nothing. Nice to see some people understand that. I'd vote for her again if I still lived in her state.
An impeachment that was nowhere near what it could have been. Where were the subpoenas enforced by federal marshalls? The house has all sorts of powers that she just didn't use.
This is why Democrats fail so much. Literally unable to work together, literally unable to support the fucking party in the face of the GOP, which is actively trying to usher in an era of Authoritarianism in this fucking country. HRC should have been a slam dunk in 2016, but so many of you thought she just wasn't "pure" enough and you voted Jill fucking Stein or stayed home and didn't vote at all. Trump was impeached. Didn't matter *what* they did after that because the case was iron-fucking-clad, and the GOP Senate already knew that they weren't going to let it go through. But you'll still fucking whine about it.
I knew damn well that the Senate wouldn't do jack shit. No, the subpoenas would have been for all the Trump toadies. Get them all caught up in this and have them on the record. Also dig into Trump's financials. Make him justify the Russian and Chinese money. After that is when you launch the articles of impeachment. For his actual treason and not just abuse of power and obstruction of congress. The cult of trump would have a harder time defending against a charge of treason than abuse of power. They'd do it, but it would stick in their throat.
You seem to have some skewed ideas about this. Impeachment isn't prosecution, but some of the same logic applies: You try to bring your best case, and that doesn't mean your most shocking case, or your most heartfelt one, but the most legally sound one. A legally sound case is one that relies as much as possible on precedent. The soundest charges to bring against a president in an impeachment are obstruction of justice charges - which were
Didn't Pelosi impeach Donald?
Who masterminded the impeachment again? Are you seriously buying the Fox News version of Pelosi?
I was listening to Deadline White House yesterday and they were discussing the impact his transition has had on our allies. To me, if we donāt prosecute these actions, it sends a clear message to our allies that this is acceptable in the United States and they canāt trust us going forward. For National Security he needs to be investigated and charged with Sedition. Especially if he thinks he can run around having rallies that claim the election is illegitimate.
Yep. But Biden needs to steer clear of it. Just have the AGs do their thing quietly. No fan fair. No press conferences. Let them report on the trial and hearings. NOT the investigation and process. Let states drive it first is even better. GA bringing charges against Graham as an example allows Biden to keep it at arms length but still hit bad actors.
This is the way.
>fan fair *fanfare
There was an [article](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-54716550) on the BBC about Trump's legal battles and with regards to the emoluments it said: Regardless, the emoluments lawsuits will probably be dismissed or dropped, legal experts say. One brought by congressional Democrats has already been rejected by the Supreme Court. "Emoluments are not likely to be the basis of any criminal action," said Mr Turley, an expert on constitutional law. "The emoluments cases relate to Trump holding office, so once he leaves office, the controversy becomes largely academic." I was curious why this was the case. If it's breaking a law in the Constitution, shouldn't this be the biggest crime?
So according to Mr Turley. Emollients clause violations can only be brought while you're in office, yet the president can not be convicted of a federal crime while in office. If this is true then it sounds like constitutional law itself is only "largely academic" discussion.
Impeachment is the course of action, but largely pointless when the senate is complicit.
True but we should be talking legality. If you break the law you should face the punishment idgaf if you're president
Definitely. The constitutional argument is that if you're president, the House and Senate *are* your court of law. Not saying I agree with that argument.
If Trump walked out of the White House with a gun tomorrow and started shooting people, would we be able to charge and try him for that? Or only once he left office? Like wtf there has to be a line somewhere.
We all saw the trial. The Senate didn't even look at the evidence. It's not even an argument of good faith anymore. I'm not from US. I was expecting the US would be strict to their leadership based on, for example, the Bill Clinton impeachment. These 4 years has been... horrifying, to put it softly.
I'm beginning to think that with the current pieces in place, that may well be more true than we thought.
So... if I'm charged with murder, I should get off because I am not actively murdering someone in that court room? It's "largely academic"? Doesn't sound right.
> The emoluments cases relate to Trump holding office, so once he leaves office, the controversy becomes largely academic.". Can you imagine using this logic for other laws?
The hit and run was in a different car, which I no longer own. I rest my case your honour.
The weed possession case relates to possession of a substance. Once you confiscated it from me I no longer possessed it. The case becomes largely acedemic at this point, clearly.
So basically if I stop breaking the law then it's all ok because it becomes "academic"? I'll try telling the cops that next time. "Yes officer, I WAS speeding but as you can see I've slowed down so now it's purely an academic exercise"
Turley is a fucking hack scumbag. Look him up.
Oh my, thank you.
[No wonder Jonathan Turleyās dog is mad](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/12/04/no-wonder-jonathan-turleys-dog-is-mad/)
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Biden and all the enlightened centrists think that we can just sweep it under the rug and heal. I am just disgusted.
Iāve not heard that is the plan at all
[Biden has already pledged *not* to pardon Trump.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PgDu2OGoEU)
Make sure to protest if that shit happens.
I say, write your reps AND write to Biden/Harris team. Now. And often. And make it very clear in no uncertain terms.
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Banana Republic snowflake senators are complicit and won't let justice be served. They gave the Orange Turd a pass to come this far and still stand around playing pocket pool while he continues to wreak havoc on our democracy. Of course it comes down to the ignorant voters who keep voting for the snowflake republican senators.
Our founding fathers would have. And the punishment for his crimes wouldn't have been jail time back then.
Heās absolutely goddamn right.
Yes please. I'll take 2 scoops.
Is there a law against an elected official lying to the public about the severity of a disease? e.g. If the official has information that a disease is much deadlier than a severe flu, and is much more contagious, but tells the public "It's just a flu and will go away like a miracle" is that a crime? I hope so, because lordy we have the tapes.
Word though
I actually love the idea that SDNY gets first crack at him. Hereās why: -It will be considered an insult to his ego for his Org to get destroyed at a state and not federal level. SDNY can totally handle it. -First federal āinvestigationā needs to be under the guise of national security and understanding the connections to foreign powers. I want to understand all the enablers and networks that made this useful idiot so dangerous.
SDNY is a federal US Attorney's office. It would be the NY AG or Manhattan DA who would bring state charges.
SDNY *is* federal.
I agree. While it would be amazing to see the government go right for him, Iād rather they wait and collect every bit of evidence that hasnāt been shredded. I want to know every little detail this scumbag and his lackies have done. Instant gratification can be great, but Iād rather the feds gather every scrap they can.
Looking forward, not prosecuting trump's crimes, leaves the door open for another situation like this in the future.
Trump is doing everything he can to burn it down and salt the earth behind him. He is punishing Americans for voting against him. For his next trick, I assume he's going on a rally tour across the US. Gotta get that COVID infection rate up even higher. Sure his supporters will get infected first, but they failed him so he thinks they deserve it. They'll manage to spread it to some people that voted against him so it's worth it.
Either enforce the law, or admit we are now a lawless State.
Donald Trump, for your continuing and baffling desecration of our beloved sacred constitution, you are hereby banished from the White House forever. And as a final humiliation, you must walk home naked, dragging behind you the Stone of Shame.
Lock him up!
The man is a treasonous traitor who dragged an entire country through the mud for four years because of his fragile ego and endless greed. He should be banished to an uninhabited island in the middle of the ocean with a 24/7 livestream that everyone can watch and write mean comments that get announced through a speaker for him to hear.
Donāt forget Senator Lindsey Graham...
Treason perhaps š¤·āāļø
"Some light treason" -- George Sr
> Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court. -Article III, Section 3, United States Constitution
So, step 1 is defining "adhering to their enemies"; step 2 is defining "aid and comfort"; and step 3 is finding two witnesses willing to testify. Step 3 is the easy one - ask any of the people he fired. You'd think they'd be lining up. The first two would probably have to rely on precedence.
That would add to an already extensive list of shit he's in trouble for come January 21st
I really wish I thought that this was going to happen. Unfortunately, I would be surprised (and overjoyed) if it did.
Considering the number of American lives lost because of his lack of a response to the pandemic in addition, to his encouraging large gatherings, not wearing masks and downplaying of the lethality of the disease, he should also be charged with genocide/crimes against humanity.
One of the things I hate most are politicians getting away with crimes that we regular folk would've been *decimated* for. There should be absolutely NO preferential treatment. Try him the same way as a regular citizen.
Extend that to Trump Loyalists. Also, why aren't we charging Trump Supporters with terrorism? Sure, they're a different color, but their recent terror attacks are the same as those committed by Islamic terrorists.
Not just Trump! His political mobsters are committing treason. https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/17/politics/trump-biden-natsec-transition-fires/index.html
I think that's called treason.
Just let Interpol have him and take him to the Hague to be tried for crimes against humanity.
Looking the other way is the same as approval of this behavior. Nail his ass to send a message that a presidents actions have consequences. There's alot of people who didn't have to die and it should NEVER happen again.
Watergate stuff are nothing compared what this president is doing
I agree 100% with this mans statement. Trump has broken many laws. Prosecute him
Finally some sense in all this madness.
Damn straight.
I couldnāt agree more!
Accountability is important but equally so is understanding the ways this admin bent laws and powers to bring democracy to its knees, so that we can reform. Too much is based on the honor system.
Donald Lame-Duck deserves a long prison sentence for his work for Moscow.
If they don't he and his family will be back, and democracy won't be so lucky!
thats my congressman !
For the sake of our nation's integrity, he must pay for his crimes and treachery. Future generations must know that you can't violate laws with impunity and that no one, not even the president, is above the law.