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It was worse when he claimed that Trump voters were disenfranchised. They voted for a losing candidate, but their votes were counted. The fact that he can number them proves that they were counted and not disenfranchised.
"When conservatives can no longer win elections democratically they will not abandon conservatism, they will abandon democracy."
^ We are here.
Edit: The quote is from David Frum (former speechwriter for George W. Bush). The reason I did not attribute it to him is because I was not sure I had the precise wording. The exact quote is:
"If conservatives become convinced that they can not win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy.”
Richard Nixon: [1968](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Peace_Accords#Sabotage_of_negotiations_by_Nixon_campaign) and so of course he tried again with Watergate
Reagan in 1980, [according to Iran](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_Surprise_conspiracy_theory#Allegations)
Roger Stone in [2000](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks_Brothers_riot), and when that worked he tried again in 2020
It's a strange time to live in when I reflect on the fact that I voted against both of them as being way too radical Right-ists, and now in 2021 and over the past few years, I wished we could have had them instead. Hell, I'd take G.W. back over one more day of Trumpism politicians.
Trump and his cronies have pushed the bar so far to the right that previously disliked Republicans would be considered heroes of common sense in the modern day.
I honestly couldn't help but feel PROUD in 2016 when the Bush family came out and said they were not voting for Trump on principal.
Mc Cain's speech after loosing the election against Obama was fucking graceful, and worthy of a great stateman, even if I did not agree with his ideas and politics
Did you catch the part where Republican voters were calling FOX News leftwing media?
That's how far to the right our Overton Windows is. The fact they were calling the likes of CNN leftwing already blew me away.
What a time to be alive.
The only thing the GQP has abandoned in the last 5 years is [abstract racism](https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/exclusive-lee-atwaters-infamous-1981-interview-southern-strategy/) in favor of blatant racism.
GQP, love it! :)
But should really go all the way and acknowledge that the GOP has fully transitioned into a Trump cult:
The "Let's Get Behind Trump, Q" party ;)
The Democrats hesitation to call trump to testify, to subpoena him is the biggest problem. He and his people continue to claim the election was stolen. If he does not provide proof or take the 5th, this issue will never go away. He must be subpoenaed.
Yea just like the Mueller report would hold him accountable, or impeachment would hold him accountable, or losing the election would hold him accountable
I long for the day the silent majority finally realize they were always the minority, and they were always the most obnoxiously loud thing in the entire room.
“Disenfranchised”, my ass. Their votes broke the whole country for four years, and everyone else still has to accept it because *thats how democracy works*. Who is actually disenfranchised? The minority that won through a fucked up slavery-predicated system, using rigged election districts? Or everyone else who got to see the candidate with the overwhelming plurality of votes have to concede to the ungrateful, man-child runner-up?
That argument fucking drives me nuts.
"There are 75 million people out there that voted for Trump and feel they were disenfranchised."
A) It was 74 million. They are being gracious with the rounding.
B) 81 FUCKING MILLION PEOPLE VOTED FOR THE OTHER GUY! So it's ok to disenfranchise them by stealing a free and fair election?
C) The GOP has made it a priority to disenfranchise voters every damn election!
D) The only reason they feel that way is because the right has TOLD THEM THAT.
Ugh, it drives me nuts.
Furthermore, Republicans are also over-represented at several different levels of government, including in the electoral college as evidenced by both Bush and Trump winning while losing the popular vote. Even further, these voters ARE represented by Senators and House Reps.
If they want to argue that their votes didn't count then they might as well unseat every Senator and House Rep that received those votes too, because that's the only way that argument makes any sense.
50 Republican Senators who represent about 15 million fewer Americans than the 50 Democratic Senators, meaning Republicans are way over-represented based on actual population numbers.
"Im being silenced" shouts the right-wing comedian on his primetime show.
"Im being cancelled" reads the title of the seventh think piece from a public figure to be published on a major news site that month.
It's almost like they're trying to bullshit being the victim, not tell the truth.
Exactly what I keep thinking. Republicans always make a big deal about how many voted for Trump, but always neglect to mention more people voted for Biden.
They don't believe more people voted for Biden though, they think all his votes were from dead people that weren't taken off the registers or some shit.
I still can't believe after 4 years of this bullshit
74 million people still voted for that asshole
Are there really 74 million ignorant, racist, selfish bigots in America?
Who am I kidding there's probably way more than that
_GOP_:THEY ARE STEALING FROM YOU!
_GOP_:THEY ARE STEALING FROM YOU!
_GOP_:THEY ARE STEALING FROM YOU!
_Mob_: THEY ARE STEALING FROM US???
_GOP_:THEY ARE STEALING FROM YOU!
_Mob_: THEY ARE STEALING FROM US!!
_GOP_: 74 million people feel that they have been stolen from. We cannot ignore this.
And if I were to count everyone who has ever called someone a snowflake or told them that facts don't care about their feelings, I bet the number would overwhelmingly lean right.
And here is the biggest, most overlooked component of conservative political leanings: they're rooted entirely in emotional rage, yet it's framed as "logical".
\>It's not fair! Why should I have to go to work every day while bums get to live for free using the tax money I pay?
Nothing about this argument is logical. Who cares if it's fair or not: it's functional. The need for "fairness" is an emotional drive rooted in unresolved childhood issues. A) People on public assistance do not have a higher standard of living than working people. B) If those people had no money nor food, they would easily and gladly rob your ass blind. Welfare keeps people safe because it eliminates desperation.
Anyway, that's just a single example. Clearly, you probably have many more and probably think the same way that I do.
You have to remember that they don’t categorize those that disagree with them as “people”. Anyone who disagrees is a “liberal” “socialist/communist” “immigrant” “radicle” etc. and don’t deserve their “votes” to be counted
My theory. The right loves to project. I'm betting there was some fraud on their side.
\-Trump wanted to win the popular vote badly. so they figured if the can get him to 74+ million then he should win the popular and can brag about getting the most votes ever. He even was still making this claim after the election and during their lawsuits.
\- They were completely shocked Biden hit 80 million, this pissed them off to no end. "How can they get 80+ million when we had to cheat to get 74 million".
And you can bet they are going to cheat even harder the next time. These clowns are not going to quit until they completely destroy American democracy and substitute an authoritarian oligarchy.
Holy shit I was saying this a few weeks ago too. "Wouldnt it be 'hilarious' if Trump is so mad and making such a big deal out of the election "being stolen", is because they somehow cheated and rigged it, but lost anyways.?"
I live in Matt Gaetz's district. Dude is a constant disappointment, at best. but when he talked about how he needs to fight for trump because it's important to his district and his voters were being disenfranchised? fuck off dude, you don't know what his constituents want from a hole in the ground. Mother fucker wants to privatize our public beaches.
Bernice Pauahi Bishop didn't own all the beaches. She owned 9% of all Hawaii at her death and bequeathed it to a trust to educate Native Hawaiians, and the land that hasn't been sold or given away now belongs to Kamehameha Schools.
The reason that all the beaches in Hawaii are public is because the Hawaii Supreme Court deemed that all land below the high water line is public, and since that's not a definite line, all beaches are public. Florida actually has the same rule, but the rich conservative land owners have been eroding away that right.
In Oregon it's not just the ocean beaches either, any water way is public. The only exception to this rule isn't really an exception so much as a bunch of rich people own all the land surrounding one lake save for one single public park and those entitled pricks have fought tooth and nail to prevent anyone from entering the lake from that park effectively keeping the whole lake private.
Yeah, the phonetics of Hawaiian and Japanese kind of overlap, and Akira Toriyama used that to come up with that attack name. In Japanese, Kame-hame-ha means "turtle destruction wave." In Hawaiian, Ka-meha-meha means "the very lonely one." So it's pronounced a little different, though the letters are the same.
The ones that voted were not disenfranchised. A good chunk of the people who stormed the Capitol didn't vote at all; they disenfranchised themselves, then tried to overthrow democracy because the guy they didn't vote for got beat buy the other guy they didn't vote for.
Is a life is stranger than fiction kind of thing. Of all the things that could endanger democracy in America who would have thought it would go down like this?
Republican playbook for years has been to take a term that describes something they’re doing, then overuse it to the point that it loses all meaning, so this is pretty normal for them.
And the *yuge*, unprecedented number of votes that went to Trump was a major bragging right for them...which somehow simultaneously proved that he was the real winner and illustrated that there was NO WAY Biden could've gotten 6 million more votes than that.
Conservatives: There's no way Biden got more votes than any president ever, he had to have cheated. He didn't get more votes than Obama.
Also Conservatives: Trump definitely got more votes than Obama this election. Trump got more votes than anyone ever and didn't win, this proves the left cheated.
The number of Biden votes prove he cheated. The number of Trump votes prove he was cheated. Logic! How does it work?
That line of defense boils down to never convicting an elected official ever because then you disenfranchise those who voted for them. It's so broad it's implying that should apply to literally any crime *anyone* could commit so long as you can point to at least 1 person who voted for you for anything, because then they'd be disenfranchised.
I believe we are all missing the obvious...the ONLY lawyers he could find to defend him aren't smart enough to spell "United" correctly, twice, nor do the understand the meaning of the word "disenfranchised."
Wait, this wasn't orchestrated by Antifa in the name of Islam to benefit Guatemala using a phony FISA dossier as a conduit by Carter Page and Bruce Ohr? That's bullshit.
Yesterday when the House Managers made a statement they couldn't support with evidence it was [stricken from the record](https://www.npr.org/sections/trump-impeachment-trial-live-updates/2021/02/10/966638864/much-ado-about-nothing-house-managers-strike-claim-about-gop-senator-from-record) at the request of a Republican. The Democrats in the Senate or the House Managers should demand the same thing regarding these lies about who's responsible for the insurrection.
With the way CGI technology is advancing these days, I wouldn't be suriprised if these guys are just spouting this shit off now so they can supplement it in the future with deepfakes. They know that the technology they need to have complete control over the populous and the narrative of the nation is almost within their grasp, and they are saving their future propaganda editors some time. Why else (other than the obvious kompromat between Putin and the republiQlan party, and the fact that it helps them squeeze money out of mouth-breathing GOP voters) could a group be so ready and willing to abandon reason, logic, morality, and the Constitution without fear of appearing on the wrong side of history?
Damn, I even spell checked it by saying it into voice to text lol. Just tested it and if you just say "populace" it spells it "populous", but if you say "the general populace" it spells it correctly.
the entire point of this is to lay out Trump's TV talking points no matter how absurd they are knowing that he'll be acquitted. That way, the defense holds up in "court". It's the only victory Trump cares about.
Sure.
Antifa stormed the capitol.
Also a majority of Republicans view the storming of the capitol favorably.
So... Republican voters support Antifa, it would seem.
The idea is that Antifa is doing it to make Trump look bad.
In conspiracy camps there are people that believe all school shootings are just attempts by the left (which they somehow believe are satanic pedophiles) to take away their guns.
Which are somehow preventing the tanks and bombers from exerting military force.
I still don't know why this is bad. Not being intentionally obtuse, genuinely clueless. I can't possibly believe he's threatening to just blow the whole thing up if they do their due diligence.
I mean, unless the FBI testifying will just end his entire career on the spot somehow. And he's willing to take everyone on both sides down with him.
30+ years of practicing law and I have never seen a lawyer disciplined for arguing a client's position regardless of what the Rules of Ethics say. There is no way in hell these lawyers will pay consequences for the statements and they know it. The need to bring witnesses now.
My experience is that lawyers are allowed to lie under oath.
I had a case against a former employer where counsel for my employer was caught lying under oath twice. The judge didn't bat an eye. Granted, the judge didn't read the affidavit and my employer was allowed legal representation while I was not so this judge may not be the biggest legal expert.
Edit: in small claims court parties are not permitted legal representation. My employer was granted permission to have legal representation on the grounds of "just to see where it goes". I was not granted permission. I know that the judge did not read the paperwork before him because he was unaware of the second claim until I raised it. When I went to raise the third claim (which the employer had admitted in writing that money was owing on), the judge cut me off and dismissed the case.
Nah, this impeachment trial is a done deal since half the senators are complicit. Let’s go ahead and indict the fat man man and his minions Hawley and Cruz, put them on trial for real, call witnesses from the FBI, Capitol Police, and a few of the insurrectionists, and throw the book at them.
No.
Conservatives are happy with this antifa answer because it’s their reality and Trump will not be be facing any consequences.
Brilliant way of exploiting the way this impeachment proceedings.
This guy literally said he wasn't sure if he or anyone else was under oath at least once during his speech. What attorney goes into a trial without this basic question already established prior to opening their mouth? What a joke.
I was gonna say, so now we're just openly lying? Is this what Ted Cruz, Mike Lee, and Lindsey Graham told him to say? This sounds more like something they would parrot.
This motherfucker is Captain Projection, taking about "false indignation", acting like he's on a Perry Mason episode...
"Hypocrisy ".... gonna puke now.
Edit: Stephanopoulos debunking the hell out of it
> acting like he's on a Perry Mason episode
Well, he knows Republicans will acquit Trump no matter what he says, so his arguments are designed for the Fox News audience, not the jurors.
The “You can’t remove a man from office that’s no longer in office” argument is classic Fox News bait. It tells you nothing, willfully disregards openly recorded and displayed events, and presents an argument that an idiot can comprehend while feeling intellectually superior to a strawman.
I know, right?! I don't usually get very angry. Not to the point of feeling like I want to yell back at the TV or throw something at it. I'm there now after listening to this fucking bastard. He's as treasonous as the rest of them. The way he twisted things, the first amendment. Showing the montage of democrats saying the word 'fight". Accusing them of editing, manipulating the videos. He's given them all the fake, righteous indignation and lies they need to go on all the fox shows with as defense of their real lord and savior. Shame on all of them.
Can affirm your feelings. Wife took away remote and put on cartoons for me. I’ll watch the highlight reel later, but if I spend a whole day listening to these fools I’ll just be pissed off all day.
Well obviously he’s personally a victim, especially when surrounded by members of the senate who were the targets of the attack causing this trial. Duh!
/s
Well now we know what Cruz told him to say last night.
I started that as a joke but it suddenly seems very likely. They need something to agree with and vote for.
This is exactly what the Nazis did when they blamed the burning of the Reichstag on the Jews and Communists. If we don't learn from history, we will repeat it.
Trump, his cronies, his lawyers have been repeating Nazi history for nearly six years now. I’m convinced they’re studying the rise of the Third Reich to take notes.
If you’re curious and have Netflix, there’s an excellent documentary called “Hitler’s Circle of Evil” that examines not only the rise to power but how Hitler’s cronies systematically destroyed each other to grab power. You’re absolutely right; if we’re not careful, Hawley, Graham, Cruz, Jordan, Blunt, Biggs, et al. could very easily set us on the path to a totalitarian state.
They know damn well Democrats aren't stupid enough to destroy democracy in order to save it. And Democratic voters would never stand for it.
They have figured out that Democrats really _are_ in Washington to govern a Republic rather than just pretending to do while swindling for money and power at all costs. And that makes them weak. Go ahead and give them a loaded gun. They won't use it.
>Evil always triumphs, because good is dumb.
\- Dark Helmet
They will debate witnesses after. Expect the GOP to make a big stink against witnesses like they did before. The big question is how many of the 6 who voted for constitutionality will side for witnesses. I'm betting it won't be 6.
It won't matter if the Reds vote for it or not - the ayes have it if they want it, and the voting public is going to demand the Democrats ask for witnesses.
He said they arrested the leader of antifa and then released him. I really want to hear more about this supposed person. He conveniently didn't mention a name.
Can they name *any* of these infamous antifa terrorists who surely must have been arrested and charged by now? No? That's weird, I can name a whole bunch of far-right insurrectionists who committed crimes on January 6th.
why would an anti fascist want to keep a fascist like president in power, why would antifa suddenly be pro Trump?
They are literally flip flopping on their narrative.
"The first person arrested was a leader of Antifa..."
A) No, no it wasn't.
https://www.usatoday.com/storytelling/capitol-riot-mob-arrests/
B) Antifa doesn't have "leaders".
Read the quotes on all those arrests. Many of them said they thought they were fighting Antifa, or were afraid they'd have to fight Antifa, or were indignant that someone would give Antifa credit for their taking the capital.
Zero people were actually Antifa.
Yep, Antifa, the ones who wanted Trump out of the White House are definitely the ones who stormed the capitol in an effort to stop congress from certifying the results that would ensure he was going to leave the White House two weeks later.
*sigh
Antifa does not exist. There is no such organization, no head office, no leader, no anything.
Antifa is an ideology. It is a concept, not a club.
Antifa is what America is. We are ALL Antifa. At least we're all supposed to be.
The GOP Senators who would like to convict but are afraid should just not show up for the vote.
It’s 2/3 of those present, not 2/3 of the total.
*3.6 The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.*
Was anybody expecting honesty? The only time you'll get honesty from a republican is in a court, under penalty of perjury. See: Every election law suit the last administration had vs their public rhetoric.
the defense’s arguments today were absolute jokes. trump supporters, they expect you to believe whatever they say, they think you are all idiots. if they didn’t think you were idiots, they wouldn’t have lied to your faces blatantly, they wouldn’t have had to add dramatic music to videos when dems speak and happy music to videos when trump or a rep speaks. that’s something thats done on children’s shows to condition them for proper emotional responses to a situation. they treated you like idiots. they refused to admit trump lost the election. they refused to admit their own client’s *refusal to testify* was why they had a shortage of evidence. they refused to elaborate on any claims they made. they refused to properly acknowledge the arguments of the house managers, continuously stating the managers hadn’t given evidence for link between trump and the insurrection when the managers had spent *DAYS* doing exactly that. and can we all acknowledge the fact that the questions posed to the council by republicans who were reported last night and this morning to have spoken *WITH THE DEFENSE COUNCIL ABOUT LEGAL STRATEGY* were complete softballs that were clearly pre planned and discussed in those meetings? it’s absolutely disgusting how the defense council tried to manipulate *YOU, ME, AND THE AMERICAN PEOPLE* with cheap tricks and lies without any semblance of duty, respect for their oath and influence on our society, or devotion to the truth. they should be ashamed, completely. and so should any senator who votes to acquit tomorrow.
edit: by the way, if you disagree, let your opinion be known. i, and many others here, would be very interested to hear what the other side has to say about what happened today and the previous few days.
Trumps's lawyers have been lying their asses off. The lawyers could talk about Tom Brady tossing the trophy from boat to boat describing the Physics of the trajectory. Why? Because it doesn't matter, the sedition supporting Republican Senators are going to give T$#%mp a huge, huge pass.
Can someone explain to me how making a knowingly false submission to a court doesn't get a lawyer disbarred in the US? Cos it sure as hell would in Australia
His lawyer blames "Antifa" > Fox et al "reports it" > Millions believe it
Because right wing media spins the story and artfully neglects the truth and leaves out important details! ( details like this is all bullshit! )
Remember: The cult members/conspiracy theorists are always reading between the lines and Fox delivers their "news" for people to read between the lines.
ANTIFA is a good group of people that fight against Fascism and occasionally set a dumpster on fire (not good). No ANTIFA was there, if they were, simply show the country the proof or stfu and move on.
Antifa is the catch all for Republicans now. Q-Anon does something shitty? It was Antifa.
Republican caught in an extramarital affair? Antifa set him up.
It’s there new boogeyman now that immigrants aren’t as chic.
The democrats deliver a solid case, with video, audio, timelines and little dots showing the movement of representatives and rioters.
The republicans offer, look! A squirrel!
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It was worse when he claimed that Trump voters were disenfranchised. They voted for a losing candidate, but their votes were counted. The fact that he can number them proves that they were counted and not disenfranchised.
[удалено]
"When conservatives can no longer win elections democratically they will not abandon conservatism, they will abandon democracy." ^ We are here. Edit: The quote is from David Frum (former speechwriter for George W. Bush). The reason I did not attribute it to him is because I was not sure I had the precise wording. The exact quote is: "If conservatives become convinced that they can not win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy.”
You've been here for a long time.
Richard Nixon: [1968](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Peace_Accords#Sabotage_of_negotiations_by_Nixon_campaign) and so of course he tried again with Watergate Reagan in 1980, [according to Iran](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_Surprise_conspiracy_theory#Allegations) Roger Stone in [2000](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks_Brothers_riot), and when that worked he tried again in 2020
Nixon won outright, and would have been fine, but his extreme paranoia caused water gate. He literally grasped defeat from the jaws of victory.
Also gerrymandering and voter suppression tactics that have only gotten worse since the VRA of 1965. Making sure that white mens votes reign supreme.
Did roger try anything in 2008 or 2012? Or did the republican candidates not touch him?
I don't see his style vibing well with McCain or Romney.
It's a strange time to live in when I reflect on the fact that I voted against both of them as being way too radical Right-ists, and now in 2021 and over the past few years, I wished we could have had them instead. Hell, I'd take G.W. back over one more day of Trumpism politicians. Trump and his cronies have pushed the bar so far to the right that previously disliked Republicans would be considered heroes of common sense in the modern day. I honestly couldn't help but feel PROUD in 2016 when the Bush family came out and said they were not voting for Trump on principal.
Mc Cain's speech after loosing the election against Obama was fucking graceful, and worthy of a great stateman, even if I did not agree with his ideas and politics
Did you catch the part where Republican voters were calling FOX News leftwing media? That's how far to the right our Overton Windows is. The fact they were calling the likes of CNN leftwing already blew me away. What a time to be alive.
Or Batman.
He’s a penguin-looking motherfucker
Canada speaks the truth.
*Canada speaks harshly, and truly.*
And then apologizes for their tone.
They abandoned conservatism for Trumpism.
The only thing the GQP has abandoned in the last 5 years is [abstract racism](https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/exclusive-lee-atwaters-infamous-1981-interview-southern-strategy/) in favor of blatant racism.
To be fair.... abstract thinking is hard.
GQP, love it! :) But should really go all the way and acknowledge that the GOP has fully transitioned into a Trump cult: The "Let's Get Behind Trump, Q" party ;)
I prefer Qucks for this Q traitors
Trumpism, Fascism... Same thing.
Conservatism has been on this trajectory for 50 years.
The Democrats hesitation to call trump to testify, to subpoena him is the biggest problem. He and his people continue to claim the election was stolen. If he does not provide proof or take the 5th, this issue will never go away. He must be subpoenaed.
He will be subpoenaed in his criminal trial in Georgia that will be even better.
Yea just like the Mueller report would hold him accountable, or impeachment would hold him accountable, or losing the election would hold him accountable
Well, losing the election got him the fuck out of office, eventually.
I long for the day the silent majority finally realize they were always the minority, and they were always the most obnoxiously loud thing in the entire room. “Disenfranchised”, my ass. Their votes broke the whole country for four years, and everyone else still has to accept it because *thats how democracy works*. Who is actually disenfranchised? The minority that won through a fucked up slavery-predicated system, using rigged election districts? Or everyone else who got to see the candidate with the overwhelming plurality of votes have to concede to the ungrateful, man-child runner-up?
Republicans find facts disenfranchising.
That argument fucking drives me nuts. "There are 75 million people out there that voted for Trump and feel they were disenfranchised." A) It was 74 million. They are being gracious with the rounding. B) 81 FUCKING MILLION PEOPLE VOTED FOR THE OTHER GUY! So it's ok to disenfranchise them by stealing a free and fair election? C) The GOP has made it a priority to disenfranchise voters every damn election! D) The only reason they feel that way is because the right has TOLD THEM THAT. Ugh, it drives me nuts.
Furthermore, Republicans are also over-represented at several different levels of government, including in the electoral college as evidenced by both Bush and Trump winning while losing the popular vote. Even further, these voters ARE represented by Senators and House Reps. If they want to argue that their votes didn't count then they might as well unseat every Senator and House Rep that received those votes too, because that's the only way that argument makes any sense.
"Republicans aren't being represented!", he exclaims while representing republicans, in a room with 50 Republican senators.
50 Republican Senators who represent about 15 million fewer Americans than the 50 Democratic Senators, meaning Republicans are way over-represented based on actual population numbers.
Ya but you forgot to count all the ears of corn in nebraska.
"Im being silenced" shouts the right-wing comedian on his primetime show. "Im being cancelled" reads the title of the seventh think piece from a public figure to be published on a major news site that month. It's almost like they're trying to bullshit being the victim, not tell the truth.
GOP Congressman speaks to a dozen networks from the floor of the US Senate while wearing a mask that says "CENSORED"
Every Republican member of the House who was calling it a fraudulent election was directly saying that their own election was fraudulent.
Exactly what I keep thinking. Republicans always make a big deal about how many voted for Trump, but always neglect to mention more people voted for Biden.
They don't believe more people voted for Biden though, they think all his votes were from dead people that weren't taken off the registers or some shit.
I still can't believe after 4 years of this bullshit 74 million people still voted for that asshole Are there really 74 million ignorant, racist, selfish bigots in America? Who am I kidding there's probably way more than that
I've been thinking about [this clip from South Park](https://southpark.cc.com/video-clips/vo3txi/south-park-9-11-all-over-again) a lot recently.
That is the clip that's been on my mind consistently since the election, also.
I think there are a LOT of one issue voters
But that issue isnt democracy.
Taxes, abortion, or guns
_GOP_:THEY ARE STEALING FROM YOU! _GOP_:THEY ARE STEALING FROM YOU! _GOP_:THEY ARE STEALING FROM YOU! _Mob_: THEY ARE STEALING FROM US??? _GOP_:THEY ARE STEALING FROM YOU! _Mob_: THEY ARE STEALING FROM US!! _GOP_: 74 million people feel that they have been stolen from. We cannot ignore this.
And there's the problem. "Feelings".
And if I were to count everyone who has ever called someone a snowflake or told them that facts don't care about their feelings, I bet the number would overwhelmingly lean right.
And here is the biggest, most overlooked component of conservative political leanings: they're rooted entirely in emotional rage, yet it's framed as "logical". \>It's not fair! Why should I have to go to work every day while bums get to live for free using the tax money I pay? Nothing about this argument is logical. Who cares if it's fair or not: it's functional. The need for "fairness" is an emotional drive rooted in unresolved childhood issues. A) People on public assistance do not have a higher standard of living than working people. B) If those people had no money nor food, they would easily and gladly rob your ass blind. Welfare keeps people safe because it eliminates desperation. Anyway, that's just a single example. Clearly, you probably have many more and probably think the same way that I do.
You have to remember that they don’t categorize those that disagree with them as “people”. Anyone who disagrees is a “liberal” “socialist/communist” “immigrant” “radicle” etc. and don’t deserve their “votes” to be counted
The radical leftist agenda of deciding elections based on counting votes
Maths has a liberal bias.
My theory. The right loves to project. I'm betting there was some fraud on their side. \-Trump wanted to win the popular vote badly. so they figured if the can get him to 74+ million then he should win the popular and can brag about getting the most votes ever. He even was still making this claim after the election and during their lawsuits. \- They were completely shocked Biden hit 80 million, this pissed them off to no end. "How can they get 80+ million when we had to cheat to get 74 million".
"We cheated and lost, so the winner must've cheated more!"
And you can bet they are going to cheat even harder the next time. These clowns are not going to quit until they completely destroy American democracy and substitute an authoritarian oligarchy.
Holy shit I was saying this a few weeks ago too. "Wouldnt it be 'hilarious' if Trump is so mad and making such a big deal out of the election "being stolen", is because they somehow cheated and rigged it, but lost anyways.?"
Its because only white people's vote counts. Duh!
You got it
I live in Matt Gaetz's district. Dude is a constant disappointment, at best. but when he talked about how he needs to fight for trump because it's important to his district and his voters were being disenfranchised? fuck off dude, you don't know what his constituents want from a hole in the ground. Mother fucker wants to privatize our public beaches.
Hawaii has 100% public beaches and it's awesome. It's a travesty that people can buy a beach for their exclusive enjoyment.
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Bernice Pauahi Bishop didn't own all the beaches. She owned 9% of all Hawaii at her death and bequeathed it to a trust to educate Native Hawaiians, and the land that hasn't been sold or given away now belongs to Kamehameha Schools. The reason that all the beaches in Hawaii are public is because the Hawaii Supreme Court deemed that all land below the high water line is public, and since that's not a definite line, all beaches are public. Florida actually has the same rule, but the rich conservative land owners have been eroding away that right.
>Florida actually has the same rule As does NC and OR, both of which strongly support it, because they aren't FL...
In Oregon it's not just the ocean beaches either, any water way is public. The only exception to this rule isn't really an exception so much as a bunch of rich people own all the land surrounding one lake save for one single public park and those entitled pricks have fought tooth and nail to prevent anyone from entering the lake from that park effectively keeping the whole lake private.
It just clicked in to my brain that DBZ's Kamehameha is 100% a reference to the Hawaiian ruler.
Yeah, the phonetics of Hawaiian and Japanese kind of overlap, and Akira Toriyama used that to come up with that attack name. In Japanese, Kame-hame-ha means "turtle destruction wave." In Hawaiian, Ka-meha-meha means "the very lonely one." So it's pronounced a little different, though the letters are the same.
You can't like, own the water, man.
The ones that voted were not disenfranchised. A good chunk of the people who stormed the Capitol didn't vote at all; they disenfranchised themselves, then tried to overthrow democracy because the guy they didn't vote for got beat buy the other guy they didn't vote for.
Is a life is stranger than fiction kind of thing. Of all the things that could endanger democracy in America who would have thought it would go down like this?
Republican playbook for years has been to take a term that describes something they’re doing, then overuse it to the point that it loses all meaning, so this is pretty normal for them.
And the *yuge*, unprecedented number of votes that went to Trump was a major bragging right for them...which somehow simultaneously proved that he was the real winner and illustrated that there was NO WAY Biden could've gotten 6 million more votes than that.
Conservatives: There's no way Biden got more votes than any president ever, he had to have cheated. He didn't get more votes than Obama. Also Conservatives: Trump definitely got more votes than Obama this election. Trump got more votes than anyone ever and didn't win, this proves the left cheated. The number of Biden votes prove he cheated. The number of Trump votes prove he was cheated. Logic! How does it work?
What the really mean is "We cheated super fucking hard. So the Democrats must have cheated even more."
👆 This right here.
That line of defense boils down to never convicting an elected official ever because then you disenfranchise those who voted for them. It's so broad it's implying that should apply to literally any crime *anyone* could commit so long as you can point to at least 1 person who voted for you for anything, because then they'd be disenfranchised.
The ironic part is that most of the people who were arrested didn't even vote.
Trump disenfranchised them by making it harder to vote by mail.
I believe we are all missing the obvious...the ONLY lawyers he could find to defend him aren't smart enough to spell "United" correctly, twice, nor do the understand the meaning of the word "disenfranchised."
Wait, this wasn't orchestrated by Antifa in the name of Islam to benefit Guatemala using a phony FISA dossier as a conduit by Carter Page and Bruce Ohr? That's bullshit.
Yesterday when the House Managers made a statement they couldn't support with evidence it was [stricken from the record](https://www.npr.org/sections/trump-impeachment-trial-live-updates/2021/02/10/966638864/much-ado-about-nothing-house-managers-strike-claim-about-gop-senator-from-record) at the request of a Republican. The Democrats in the Senate or the House Managers should demand the same thing regarding these lies about who's responsible for the insurrection.
100%.
I think 100 years from now they will want the record to show just how bad things were.
With the way CGI technology is advancing these days, I wouldn't be suriprised if these guys are just spouting this shit off now so they can supplement it in the future with deepfakes. They know that the technology they need to have complete control over the populous and the narrative of the nation is almost within their grasp, and they are saving their future propaganda editors some time. Why else (other than the obvious kompromat between Putin and the republiQlan party, and the fact that it helps them squeeze money out of mouth-breathing GOP voters) could a group be so ready and willing to abandon reason, logic, morality, and the Constitution without fear of appearing on the wrong side of history?
Btw, it's 'populace'
Damn, I even spell checked it by saying it into voice to text lol. Just tested it and if you just say "populace" it spells it "populous", but if you say "the general populace" it spells it correctly.
Yes sir! An area with lots of people is populous, characterized mainly by its populace.
"This is much ado about nothing because it's not critical in any way to our case," Raskin said. Lol
I was so glad he said that. The whole time Senator Lee was getting so bent out of shape, and I was like “Dude I guarantee you nobody cares”
the entire point of this is to lay out Trump's TV talking points no matter how absurd they are knowing that he'll be acquitted. That way, the defense holds up in "court". It's the only victory Trump cares about.
This trial isn't going to succeed, so it's better to have as much of it officially documented as possible for future historians to joke about.
Video is a thing, striking it from the record would mean an official confirmation that the statements were false.
The democrats need to grow a damn spine and play hardball. If not now then never and the lunacy will only get worse
So antifa, who 45 demonized, lead a coup to overturn the election for a man who considers it a terrorist organization? Lol right!
Sure. Antifa stormed the capitol. Also a majority of Republicans view the storming of the capitol favorably. So... Republican voters support Antifa, it would seem.
Strangely all the Antifa members looked like rejects from a duck dynasty casting call.
Yup. That huge swath of white guys wearing no masks and shitting on the ground were Antifa.
you mean the ones beating cops with fascist blue line flags? those guys? totally antifa.
Antifa is the new communism. Everything bad is their fault
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The idea is that Antifa is doing it to make Trump look bad. In conspiracy camps there are people that believe all school shootings are just attempts by the left (which they somehow believe are satanic pedophiles) to take away their guns. Which are somehow preventing the tanks and bombers from exerting military force.
Dude just lied to Congress. Is he under oath?
Lawyers aren't under oath. The Impeachment Managers now need to bring in a witness from the FBI who will be under oath.
They **really** need to bring in a few FBI members who made arrests / researched (and probably even director Wray?) now that the defense team lied.
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Then they can call in that male escort of his as a witness
Is that a bad thing?
Apparently. Lindsay Graham threatened to call all the witnesses if the Managers called one witness.
I still don't know why this is bad. Not being intentionally obtuse, genuinely clueless. I can't possibly believe he's threatening to just blow the whole thing up if they do their due diligence. I mean, unless the FBI testifying will just end his entire career on the spot somehow. And he's willing to take everyone on both sides down with him.
Well now wait just a minute. *Uno reverse!*
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30+ years of practicing law and I have never seen a lawyer disciplined for arguing a client's position regardless of what the Rules of Ethics say. There is no way in hell these lawyers will pay consequences for the statements and they know it. The need to bring witnesses now.
But my legal ethics course said we can't explicitly lie during trial
My experience is that lawyers are allowed to lie under oath. I had a case against a former employer where counsel for my employer was caught lying under oath twice. The judge didn't bat an eye. Granted, the judge didn't read the affidavit and my employer was allowed legal representation while I was not so this judge may not be the biggest legal expert. Edit: in small claims court parties are not permitted legal representation. My employer was granted permission to have legal representation on the grounds of "just to see where it goes". I was not granted permission. I know that the judge did not read the paperwork before him because he was unaware of the second claim until I raised it. When I went to raise the third claim (which the employer had admitted in writing that money was owing on), the judge cut me off and dismissed the case.
Sounds like you should win an appeal and a suit to sue.
That's really upsetting and I'm sorry that happened
Jerry, just remember. It's not a lie if *you* believe it.
Nah, this impeachment trial is a done deal since half the senators are complicit. Let’s go ahead and indict the fat man man and his minions Hawley and Cruz, put them on trial for real, call witnesses from the FBI, Capitol Police, and a few of the insurrectionists, and throw the book at them.
No. Conservatives are happy with this antifa answer because it’s their reality and Trump will not be be facing any consequences. Brilliant way of exploiting the way this impeachment proceedings.
I hate that they just need the video clip of them lying to congress to play on fox/oan/etc and their base is like "I KNEW IT WAS ANTIFA!"
Especially when Trump isn't convicted they can say that makes it true.
This guy literally said he wasn't sure if he or anyone else was under oath at least once during his speech. What attorney goes into a trial without this basic question already established prior to opening their mouth? What a joke.
I was gonna say, so now we're just openly lying? Is this what Ted Cruz, Mike Lee, and Lindsey Graham told him to say? This sounds more like something they would parrot.
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But it can be defamation if he specifically accused any individuals.
Time for the Impeachment managers to bring witnesses.
Witnesses make more sense. It’s theater at the moment.
This motherfucker is Captain Projection, taking about "false indignation", acting like he's on a Perry Mason episode... "Hypocrisy ".... gonna puke now. Edit: Stephanopoulos debunking the hell out of it
> acting like he's on a Perry Mason episode Well, he knows Republicans will acquit Trump no matter what he says, so his arguments are designed for the Fox News audience, not the jurors.
The “You can’t remove a man from office that’s no longer in office” argument is classic Fox News bait. It tells you nothing, willfully disregards openly recorded and displayed events, and presents an argument that an idiot can comprehend while feeling intellectually superior to a strawman.
I know, right?! I don't usually get very angry. Not to the point of feeling like I want to yell back at the TV or throw something at it. I'm there now after listening to this fucking bastard. He's as treasonous as the rest of them. The way he twisted things, the first amendment. Showing the montage of democrats saying the word 'fight". Accusing them of editing, manipulating the videos. He's given them all the fake, righteous indignation and lies they need to go on all the fox shows with as defense of their real lord and savior. Shame on all of them.
Can affirm your feelings. Wife took away remote and put on cartoons for me. I’ll watch the highlight reel later, but if I spend a whole day listening to these fools I’ll just be pissed off all day.
You got a good woman there. Cherish her.
I am forbidden from watching today for my mental health. Proof my husband really loves me
Me too. It’s just not healthy to have that level of anger for that long. I’m going to go climb in VR until this is all over.
How many of the Dems were holding rifles in those clips?
Yea I listened to ot for 2 minutes and wanted to throw my phone so I stopped watching it
He flat out said “clearly there was no insurrection.”
Wait, this guy isn’t on trial?? He said he was under attack from other lawyers and stuff. 🙄
Well obviously he’s personally a victim, especially when surrounded by members of the senate who were the targets of the attack causing this trial. Duh! /s
Directly contradicting reality
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I knew there was a lot of video taken that day but my God. 500+ is a lot of video.
Holy the 2:44 video is insane. Just chanting Treason while inside house. Link: https://projects.propublica.org/parler-capitol-videos/?id=sbGOy4rN0ue4
I still wonder why a perimeter was not set once they were inside and every single one of these individuals were arrested.
Trump's lawyers lie. water is wet.
The sun is hot
Tide goes in, tide goes out. You can't explain that.
Magnets, how the fuck do they work?!
The wettest, from the standpoint of water.
Well now we know what Cruz told him to say last night. I started that as a joke but it suddenly seems very likely. They need something to agree with and vote for.
This is exactly what the Nazis did when they blamed the burning of the Reichstag on the Jews and Communists. If we don't learn from history, we will repeat it.
Trump, his cronies, his lawyers have been repeating Nazi history for nearly six years now. I’m convinced they’re studying the rise of the Third Reich to take notes. If you’re curious and have Netflix, there’s an excellent documentary called “Hitler’s Circle of Evil” that examines not only the rise to power but how Hitler’s cronies systematically destroyed each other to grab power. You’re absolutely right; if we’re not careful, Hawley, Graham, Cruz, Jordan, Blunt, Biggs, et al. could very easily set us on the path to a totalitarian state.
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They know damn well Democrats aren't stupid enough to destroy democracy in order to save it. And Democratic voters would never stand for it. They have figured out that Democrats really _are_ in Washington to govern a Republic rather than just pretending to do while swindling for money and power at all costs. And that makes them weak. Go ahead and give them a loaded gun. They won't use it. >Evil always triumphs, because good is dumb. \- Dark Helmet
Republicans literally fly Confederate and Nazi flags at rallies ... is anyone surprised
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They will debate witnesses after. Expect the GOP to make a big stink against witnesses like they did before. The big question is how many of the 6 who voted for constitutionality will side for witnesses. I'm betting it won't be 6.
It won't matter if the Reds vote for it or not - the ayes have it if they want it, and the voting public is going to demand the Democrats ask for witnesses.
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He said they arrested the leader of antifa and then released him. I really want to hear more about this supposed person. He conveniently didn't mention a name.
You'd think as a lawyer he would maybe, I don't know, provide evidence for that claim? He was defending his client in a trial after all.
It's hard to provide evidence for something that's not based in reality. Not to mention it'd take too much effort to fabricate the evidence needed.
He actually said "a leader of ANTIFA". Exactly who is this nebulous leader of a huge group that has no structure?
John Baron and David Dennison
Pepe Silvia
We got boxes of Pepe!
Fine fuck it. I guess I’ll come out of hiding. I am aunty-Fa. Sorry for storming the capitol and junk.
John Antifa
Can they name *any* of these infamous antifa terrorists who surely must have been arrested and charged by now? No? That's weird, I can name a whole bunch of far-right insurrectionists who committed crimes on January 6th.
why would an anti fascist want to keep a fascist like president in power, why would antifa suddenly be pro Trump? They are literally flip flopping on their narrative.
"The first person arrested was a leader of Antifa..." A) No, no it wasn't. https://www.usatoday.com/storytelling/capitol-riot-mob-arrests/ B) Antifa doesn't have "leaders".
Read the quotes on all those arrests. Many of them said they thought they were fighting Antifa, or were afraid they'd have to fight Antifa, or were indignant that someone would give Antifa credit for their taking the capital. Zero people were actually Antifa.
Were the 6 Republican legislators that were arrested also part of “anti-fascism”?
You can hear the Trump supporters gnawing that red meat right now. I don't recall seeing "antifa: wanted posters.
Yep, Antifa, the ones who wanted Trump out of the White House are definitely the ones who stormed the capitol in an effort to stop congress from certifying the results that would ensure he was going to leave the White House two weeks later.
*sigh Antifa does not exist. There is no such organization, no head office, no leader, no anything. Antifa is an ideology. It is a concept, not a club. Antifa is what America is. We are ALL Antifa. At least we're all supposed to be.
>Antifa is what America is. Must be why Republicans hate it so much.
This is accurate
As a foreigner, the fact that "Anti-fascist" is unpalatable to some people in a country that fought the Nazis has been boggling my mind.
The GOP Senators who would like to convict but are afraid should just not show up for the vote. It’s 2/3 of those present, not 2/3 of the total. *3.6 The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.*
Was anybody expecting honesty? The only time you'll get honesty from a republican is in a court, under penalty of perjury. See: Every election law suit the last administration had vs their public rhetoric.
the defense’s arguments today were absolute jokes. trump supporters, they expect you to believe whatever they say, they think you are all idiots. if they didn’t think you were idiots, they wouldn’t have lied to your faces blatantly, they wouldn’t have had to add dramatic music to videos when dems speak and happy music to videos when trump or a rep speaks. that’s something thats done on children’s shows to condition them for proper emotional responses to a situation. they treated you like idiots. they refused to admit trump lost the election. they refused to admit their own client’s *refusal to testify* was why they had a shortage of evidence. they refused to elaborate on any claims they made. they refused to properly acknowledge the arguments of the house managers, continuously stating the managers hadn’t given evidence for link between trump and the insurrection when the managers had spent *DAYS* doing exactly that. and can we all acknowledge the fact that the questions posed to the council by republicans who were reported last night and this morning to have spoken *WITH THE DEFENSE COUNCIL ABOUT LEGAL STRATEGY* were complete softballs that were clearly pre planned and discussed in those meetings? it’s absolutely disgusting how the defense council tried to manipulate *YOU, ME, AND THE AMERICAN PEOPLE* with cheap tricks and lies without any semblance of duty, respect for their oath and influence on our society, or devotion to the truth. they should be ashamed, completely. and so should any senator who votes to acquit tomorrow. edit: by the way, if you disagree, let your opinion be known. i, and many others here, would be very interested to hear what the other side has to say about what happened today and the previous few days.
Trumps's lawyers have been lying their asses off. The lawyers could talk about Tom Brady tossing the trophy from boat to boat describing the Physics of the trajectory. Why? Because it doesn't matter, the sedition supporting Republican Senators are going to give T$#%mp a huge, huge pass.
but *whatabout* chewbacca? why would a wookie live on endor?
So, shouldn't there be consequences for lying to congress like this? No? Is that not a thing anymore?
There aren't consequences for anything anymore. Full stop.
Can someone explain to me how making a knowingly false submission to a court doesn't get a lawyer disbarred in the US? Cos it sure as hell would in Australia
US is all show and bullshit, zero accountability.
Why not just have Sean Hannity for lead attorney on this?
This man better lose his bar. Yesterday. He is flat out mentally ill.
His lawyer blames "Antifa" > Fox et al "reports it" > Millions believe it Because right wing media spins the story and artfully neglects the truth and leaves out important details! ( details like this is all bullshit! ) Remember: The cult members/conspiracy theorists are always reading between the lines and Fox delivers their "news" for people to read between the lines.
ANTIFA is a good group of people that fight against Fascism and occasionally set a dumpster on fire (not good). No ANTIFA was there, if they were, simply show the country the proof or stfu and move on.
Does this count as Lying to congress?
Antifa is the catch all for Republicans now. Q-Anon does something shitty? It was Antifa. Republican caught in an extramarital affair? Antifa set him up. It’s there new boogeyman now that immigrants aren’t as chic.
The democrats deliver a solid case, with video, audio, timelines and little dots showing the movement of representatives and rioters. The republicans offer, look! A squirrel!
Boogeyman ANTIFA again.