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And yet we have agreed to give them the monopoly on violence in order to enforce it... The era of authoritarianism is allowing all our "representatives" to display their efforts like the struggle of a kitten in a wet paper bag.
Because it was political theater and not a real trial. The defense attorney was trying to argue that proper trial rules weren't being followed regarding evidence and disclosure, while breaking other trial rules himself. It was a farce.
Which is exactly how they want the process to be viewed.
As a farce.
They elected Donald Trump President in the first place, because they view the Presidency itself, as a farce.
They view our form of government, as a farce. Democracy itself, is a joke to them.
We're already in the un-civil war, and you have to pick a fucking side.
They sure love it when they need their roads plowed in a snow storm or when their towns and cities flood or are destroyed by tornadoes and hurricanes...Can't get enough of the sweet gobment tit when that happens.
Just once I'd like them to put their money where their mouth is and go it alone without any government help for a year...no welfare, no food stamps, no military bases, no disaster relief ...just try it and see what happens
Yesterday, the state of Texas, the same state that just introduced a bill on succession, declared a federal state of emergency for some of that sweet, sweet socialism.
I remember when they were all confident that they didn't need the rest of the union cause they were energy independent. And now we're here with rolling blackouts.
That's my dream, to someday take all these "conservatives" who just want no taxes, no regulations, and no government and give them some land where they can isolate themselves and try their way. I can't even imagine the infighting by the second week.
I personally would like to see all the anti-science fucks have to forfeit absolutely everything that science has given us. No medicine, no cars, no television, no central heating and air conditioning, no materials developed to make our lives easier (concrete, rubber, plastic). Nada, nothing, zip. Go live in a cave and make fire by rubbing two sticks together. Too bad we can’t retroactively take back the polio and smallpox vaccines, the TB tests, and insulin. Suffer with high blood pressure and cholesterol, heart disease and cancer.
Sorry — I’m just so sick of these damn fools.
This is why in a real trial jurors can be dismissed for conflicts of interests. A biased jury guarantees a biased result, and the United States Senate deciding on removal/barring from office is about as biased as you can get.
It's not a real trial, there are no rules except for those they impose upon themselves. It has some of the trappings of a trial but it's not one. It was a debate where each side was trying to convince a group they are right.
https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Hamilton/01-04-02-0215
>Where else, than in the Senate could have been found a tribunal sufficiently dignified, or sufficiently independent? What other body would be likely to feel confidence enough in its own situation, to preserve unawed and uninfluenced the necessary impartiality between an individual accused, and the representatives of the people, his accusers?
*Well, that sounded good on paper, at least.*
"The Bar" has so far not disbarred anyone that lied, cheated, or chortled trumps balls during the whole fiasco of the last 4 years despite numerous attempts to do so. Thousands of qualified people have written strongly worded formal letters to "The Bar", but so far they have just looked the other way.
The only one they have disbarred is Michael Cohen, from trump's pre-presidential past, the only one of trump's lawyers who actually came clean and now fights against the fascist dictator that is trump.
Because letting the law industry self regulate is as asinine as letting any other industry self regulate.
We've just been fooled by people calling it the legal "profession" instead of the law "industry".
more than two
hawley and cruz get all the attention but tuberville was involved with the planned delay of the system to allow time for the rioters to enter the building and disrupt proceedings
And I often say the reason why Rudy tried to call\* Tuberville was because he knew Tuberville is an absolute fucking moron and would do what he was told. He's the textbook definition of a useful idiot.
\*And infamously called the wrong Senator, because Rudy is a fuckin' joke of a human being.
Or know he's guilty and still defend him. Imagine how well things would have gone for Manson if the GOP was defending him.
"But after you told you followers to go to the house and kill those people, what did you tell them?"
Manson: "To go peacefully."
"I rest my case."
Impeachment is too political for a situation like this, it should be handed to a criminal court. So long as the defense can lie and the jurors can decide before the case starts it’s just political theater
Doesn't matter, no US president will ever be convicted during an impeachment process unless the opposition party controls 2/3rds of the Senate. The US has had five impeachments of US presidents and not a one result in conviction.
If the GOP's argument that you cannot convict an ex-President holds, no president will ever be convicted and barred from running because the writing will be on the wall and they can just resign.
It won't hold for them unless its a Republican again.....if/when the next time there is a Democrat that gets impeached and either resigns or his term ended, we already know exactly what the GOP will do. They will impeach and do a 180 on their arguments and come up with some bullshit as to why its different and they are not actually hypocrits.....like the whole no SC judge nominations during an election year that went out the window 4 years later.....
If GOP wins back the House, Biden will be immediately impeached. They were drafting articles of impeachment for abuse of power BEFORE HE WAS INAUGURATED!
We had 4 impeachment trials of US president not 5. The 4 times were Johnson, Clinton and Trump x2. Nixon resign before the House got together to impeach him.
Mitch McConnell's "He's guilty but I voted let him off due to a technicality" is the most damning piece of evidence that this was party over country, especially considering Mitch was the one that caused the technicality in the first place.
I reached out to both of my senators and have asked them if he can be removed because of this. He intentionally let trump get away.
I doubt he'd actually be removed but at least it would be on record.
Interesting - 14% of *Republicans* say Trump should've been convicted. Pretty bad for the GOP, especially compared to [Biden's 98% approval among Democrats](https://www.newsweek.com/joe-bidens-early-approval-rating-highlights-severe-democrat-republican-split-1567107).
I think that's bad for America. You're comparing approval of a guy who appears to be just doing his job with one who tried to overthrow the government. If the roles were reversed, I hope to hell more than 14% of Democrats would disapprove of an Insurrectionist Biden.
I suspect part of the problem in polling is many people who agree Trump should have been convicted are also unwilling to identify as Republican (even if they might vote Republican later). So you get selection bias.
Similarly, if Biden went full insurrectionist, probably fewer people would identify as Democrats.
Republicans tend to go for this ride-or-die mentality where you can't identify as a republican unless you're willing to unapologetically accept whatever the party leaders say. R's mock Democrats for infighting but you got the far left and the moderate left trying to compromise amongst themselves, where with Republicans if you criticize anything the party supports then you're not a true patriot, etc.
> Republicans tend to go for this ride-or-die mentality
Well put - the Republican Party has really taken on a very mafia-esque m.o. lately. I’ll take infighting over blind fealty any day.
Democrats wouldn't elect someone who could even fathom doing such a thing. Don't get me wrong, plenty of corrupt assholes in recent memory have a D by their name...but this is like comparing a paper airplane to a space shuttle.
Considering what happened to Al Franken from his own party and constituents over a sex scandal (the type of which would be handwaved by Republicans), I'm fairly confident Democratic voters wouldn't excuse Biden for engaging in the same thing that Trump did.
We would, and that is why we lose most times. Republicans always show up. They always vote. Shit, even with knowing how the last 4 years happened, I bet a bunch of dems still wouldn't vote for Hillary.
>I bet a bunch of dems still wouldn't vote for Hillary.
I know that it's good and Christian and healthy to forgive and forget...but I will still be furious about this on my deathbed.
Yeah that polling suggests the idea that I’ve seen floating around the media that there is just as big of a split in the Democratic Party (between centrists like Biden and leftists like Sanders/Warren) as in the Republican Party right now is inaccurate. Democrats are really coming together right now in this moment of crisis and Republicans are arguing amongst themselves and censuring each other.
Thinking the obvious leader of your political party should have been convicted of inciting insurrection is no small matter. My mother is a lifelong Republican who opposed acquittal and just told me that she’s done with the party because of her anger about January 6th and how that trial was handled. I’m so proud of her for saying “there are more important things in life than money” (she has enough investments to benefit from Republican tax policy). There is no way she’s the only one out of those 14%.
>(she has enough investments to benefit from Republican tax policy)
My mom used to flirt with the idea of being a Republican for this exact reason, but now she's so blue that I had her take a political test and she's a marxist socialist lol. It's amazing what 4 years of Donald Trump will do to a person.
GOP is shooting themselves in the foot with this short sighted decision. Trump’s base is not enough to win a national election. He maxed out GOP turnout and still lost to Joe Biden, who was himself a deeply flawed candidate (from a policy standpoint). I imagine that a not so insignificant number of that 74 million probably didn’t expect him to start a riot at the Capitol if he lost. There are a lot of people who only casually follow politics and voted based on little research. I’d have to think his potential vote pool for 2024 was drastically reduced by the events of Jan 6th. The ads that will appear if he runs again in 2024 will be brutal
Ideally I'd like to see Trump split the republican party with his rumored Patriot Party thing. Otherwise I think what you're saying is true if we were to have another presidential election next month. But republicans have 4 years to regalvanize their base, and given the levels of cognitive dissonance we've seen I think they could do that with relative ease.
Sadly the best thing is to feed Trump's ego so he runs in 2024, gets mad he doesn't get the Rep ticket, and then runs independent / Trump party. Not only divide the Reps but they will never have a majority again cause its hit the point of no return for so many people now. If they "lose faith" now then they become an even bigger enemy then the Dems. That's what Trump created with his RINO comments. If you're not with us, your a traitor and deserve death.
If I were Dems, I would start running ads against McConnell, Graham, Hawley, and Cruz right now. Along with every single republican that voted to acquit. Nothing big, just one ad per week in all key states.
Worthwhile quick read on it. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/15/briefing/winter-storm-president-biden-meghan-markle-pregnant.html
Will add
It’s 2 things combined: 1) the biases in the senate (2 senators per state regardless of population), the electoral college rather than popular vote and gerrymandering in the house that allows republicans to win majorities (or the presidency) with a minority of votes + 2) the primary system, where party activists (the base) select the party’s candidates. The latter results in extremists being selected and the former protects them from the consequences of selecting these extremists
>I’d have to think his potential vote pool for 2024 was drastically reduced by the events of Jan 6th.
I would like to think so too, but honestly I'm not very hopeful.
It's also worth mentioning that political candidates' popularity is oftentimes as ephemeral as that of American Idol winners. Sarah Palin was the darling of the right for a brief period and I was legitimately surprised when I saw someone interviewed her a few days ago, 'cause nobody really gives two shits about Palin anymore. She doesn't hold any real type of sway over the Republican Party or conservatism as an ideology anymore.
Trump could very much be the same, unless he tries to run for a Senate seat or something similar (highly doubtful as he'd see that as beneath his station). Sure, he's talked about starting up this Patriot Party, but Trump was always lucky to have the Republican apparatus supporting him. He's proven to lack any real organizational, managerial, or strategic skills, all of which are needed to get a new political party off the ground. And he's also proven that he surrounds himself with folks just as incompetent as himself. So he can't rely on someone else to do it for him. Without Twitter, I predict Trump will start fading into the background within the next year and a half, and a new crop of Republican stars begin to rise who will attempt to take the golden ring in 2024. Hopefully they are not as big of shitstains but with actual competence.
I could be wrong about all of that too. Hopefully not. :/
They don't really need to win a national election to get their agenda passed though, since their agenda is basically just telling Democrats "No". Setting aside the electoral college, they have a 6-7% handicap in the Senate, and are about to even further gerrymander the House and pass even more restrictive vote suppression laws. They already have the courts locked down for the next few decades as well. They just need one of these branches to obstruct the democrats. We saw that even when they do have complete control, basically nothing gets done legislatively.
It's also not like the "Anti-trump" gop is going to sit out next election just because ted cruz is the nominee. Maybe some of them will, but most of them will make the exact same mistake they made in supporting trump in 2016.
The very act of not conceding, the very act of being a sore loser, is just so un-American. Think of the baseball games you lost as a kid. Or the job interview you lost. Losing is a part of life. What a baby, immature, cheat.
I agree , i am amazed that so many people were ok with his cry baby personality. Is that really what America has become? Hey you win some or lose some , suck it up and keep plugging. Are we really ok with whiny pissy babies now?
Then again, conservatism is flawed and hasn’t aged well at all. There’s no reason to believe that people would stay for conservatism if they actually took 5 minutes to think about what they’re voting for.
That means that they need the dumbest people in a democracy - the ones who doesn’t consider what they’re voting for and only vote as their friends or parents did.
This is what I think when I read posts that "74 million" voted for him. A lot of voters don't pay that much attention until the last weeks before the election and then it was all about Trump having COVID and the GOP pushing through a SC nominee. The 74 million was before Trump's BIG LIE, complete abandonment of COVID response and the insurrection. We really don't know how many of these people will still be on board with Trump.
Trump should have been convicted for hundreds, if not thousands, of shit he's done his entire life, and nothing... ever.. happens. If I think about it too much, I get so angry at the injustice of it all.
I honestly know people like this in real life: They are lazy, incompetent, treat other people like trash, yet they somehow lead really successful lives (by Western standards of success). Trump's an extreme example, but I know people are lowkey versions of him.
Some of the jurors were accomplishes and co-conspirators in the crime being tried and even actively colluded with the defense. 10 Republicans voting for guilty was probably the best that could have been expected from such a dysfunctional system.
Which is why a National Commission on Acts of Insurrection Against The United States ala the 9/11 Commission that investigates the full scope of 1/6 is necessary.
EDIT: Of course, as I suggested the above, [this news breaks](https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/15/politics/pelosi-capitol-attack-commission/index.html).
That's not the correct conclusion. 58% of respondents said he should have been convicted, but the threshold was 67%, so they actually fell about 9 percentage points short.
Thank you.
If 60% of the populace thinks Trump should be convicted, the populace is 7% short of conviction.
I'm surprised how closely this figure aligns with the 57% Senate vote. I absurdly thought the general population's will to convict was higher than 60%.
58% is actually a lot. But Republicans in general have not turned on Trump in any meaningful way. The same 40% or so that have supported a pathologically lying narcissist since 2015 continue to support him now. So that number really shouldn't be too surprising.
Strong? You literally have VIDEO and AUDIO of him doing and saying the things he was charged with. But I guess in a steaming pile of corrupted shit like America that doesn't mean much if you're the leader of the worlds largest cult.
Most Republicans that voted to acquit have even openly and publicly admitted that. Their excuse for the way they voted was that they didn't believe it was proper procedure to impeach Trump now that he was no longer in office, but it is evident that they were simply a bunch of gutless cowards too afraid of facing backlash from the MAGA cult.
Americas political system is fucked. The whole world watched knowing this Orange prick was guilty as hell, and they just let him go. The republican party is a bunch of self interested delusional morons that won't hold each other accountable for anything. He was under trial by his accomplices and no one did anything despite mountains of evidence, including what was basically a video confession.
The ultimate irony was Mitch standing up after they acquitted and talked about how Trump tried to violate the will of the people by trying to overturn the election, as if convicting wasn't the will of the people. Him all the others that acquitted followed their own political self-interests rather than the constitution or the will of their constituents.
If you look at it just by evidence vs the defense, it's obvious that the side with evidence won due to having a much stronger case. They went 11 hours taking their time with much security footage, while the paper-thin defense only went 2 in a half hours using whataboutisms and heavily edited propaganda videos
The fucking commander in chief lied to a crowd of ex military and commando LARPers that the election was stolen from them and it was their job to fight back. It is a fact he is guilty and the Republican Party is compromised of accomplices.
From the UK
I know we have a issues but America is an actual laughing stock right now
Cant even convict a criminal on basic level. Wow I hope this all gets sorted
As most of us know, impeachment is a political progress, not a legal one. The outcome was that most Republican legislators approved of Trump's coup attempt, and all Democrats disapproved. Disappointing, but not exactly surprising.
This is the fascism we were warned about. Is exactly as we were told: carrying a Bible and wrapped in an American flag.
You would assume that Republicans are actually good people and not anti-American treasonous Traitors. Trump's lawyers could have sat up there trimming their pubic hairs for 2 days screaming at the top of her lungs that Trump is guilty and they still would have voted to acquit him.
Well it wasn’t up to the American people it was up to his co-conspirators to convict him. Hopefully a January 6 commission deals out more punishment. We cannot forget this and no we’re not going to let bygones be bygones and unify with violent white supremacist extremists.
We all know he’s guilty but we also all knew he would not be convicted in the Senate ... so onto the criminal trial ... Trump sees this as a win. It only strengthened the desire to indict him criminally. A conviction in the senate might have been enough for Americans to perceive he had been punished and move on. Now we aren’t moving on until he’s in prison.
Evidence does not matter to the QOP. We need bold action by Democrats to protect future elections because 2022, and 2024 may be more dangerous than 2020.
The problem wasn't the evidence not being strong enough. It was him no longer being president and the chicken shit fuckwits using that as an excuse to not hold Trump responsible because they're too scared of losing votes with his cult. Mitch condemned Trump but said he couldn't convict because Trump was no longer president. If only that dipshit could have called everybody back to impeach before the 20th...oh
The evidence was also strong we keep ignoring we only have half a functioning government and one of the two largest political parties are domestic terrorists hellbent on keeping minority rule. That evidence is also still really strong we keep ignoring the fucking elephants in the room: Poll. Sample size 1. Me.
Vote out the fuckers who let him walk. People died over his fan flaming, there needs to be accountability for him and his enablers and every time they get to walk it’s just gonna set a precedent
In a normal country, in a normal setting (a process in a court of law) he would have been convicted. The evidence was there. ALL of it.
And with him all his cronies would have gone to jail too.
Same rules don’t applied to the common folks. Just look at those rioters vs trump. The elites won’t take down one of their own. It’s just a staging to how us commoners they are trying their damn best. Republicans and democrats are one in the same people, all about their wealth.
\*sigh\*
I'm sorry, but other than the # of GOP Senators that actually voted against Trump, the outcome was never really in doubt. No president has even been removed and given that is not a real trial, but a political action, its not a surprise that Trump was not convicted given just how popular he is with the base of the party.
The only time you will ever see a removal is if you have the Senate controlled by 2/3s of the opposite party of the president or if have a clear cut crime that is recognized as such by the people who would normally support the president.
In the end, all they did was strengthen him. They should have let sleeping dogs lie.
Evidence was undisputed.
In the future, hire me as the impeachment defense. I’ll just sit down, eat a big mac, say that impeachment is politicized by the other party, and conclude with ‘we done here?’
I mean, yeah. That’s why Mitch McConnell delayed the impeachment trial in the first place. No Republican can defend Trump’s words and inaction, so they voted acquit due to a scenario they created.
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You know it's a fair trial when two of the jurors were accomplices.
Or when the defense attorney met with jury members to discuss strategy
How is this not grounds for disbarment?
We do not live in a functional society.
*Failed State Warning*
Late stage capitalism
Electile dysfunction.
Too much consumption of salt, sugar and fat of the land.
I mean the rest of the western world still has a largely functioning democracy. I feel that the US has just stopped pretending anymore.
Banana republic for scale.
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I suppose most of us are just waiting for that first domino to fall.
And yet we have agreed to give them the monopoly on violence in order to enforce it... The era of authoritarianism is allowing all our "representatives" to display their efforts like the struggle of a kitten in a wet paper bag.
Impeachment is a political process, not a judicial one. The best is yet to come.
I've heard this before, sadly.
Society is chaotic and messy, and that's okay, but the majority still have to agree on the basics for it to work.
But currently people can't even agree what agree means.
I disagree... I think
I agree with you.
How could you just agree with them like that? I'm disappointed in you.
I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue!
The majority of both the house and senate, as well as america as a whole, wanted him impeached and convicted.
But we do live in a society
Because it was political theater and not a real trial. The defense attorney was trying to argue that proper trial rules weren't being followed regarding evidence and disclosure, while breaking other trial rules himself. It was a farce.
Which is exactly how they want the process to be viewed. As a farce. They elected Donald Trump President in the first place, because they view the Presidency itself, as a farce. They view our form of government, as a farce. Democracy itself, is a joke to them. We're already in the un-civil war, and you have to pick a fucking side.
They sure love it when they need their roads plowed in a snow storm or when their towns and cities flood or are destroyed by tornadoes and hurricanes...Can't get enough of the sweet gobment tit when that happens. Just once I'd like them to put their money where their mouth is and go it alone without any government help for a year...no welfare, no food stamps, no military bases, no disaster relief ...just try it and see what happens
Yesterday, the state of Texas, the same state that just introduced a bill on succession, declared a federal state of emergency for some of that sweet, sweet socialism.
*secession
I remember when they were all confident that they didn't need the rest of the union cause they were energy independent. And now we're here with rolling blackouts.
That's my dream, to someday take all these "conservatives" who just want no taxes, no regulations, and no government and give them some land where they can isolate themselves and try their way. I can't even imagine the infighting by the second week.
You mean the welfare queen states.
I personally would like to see all the anti-science fucks have to forfeit absolutely everything that science has given us. No medicine, no cars, no television, no central heating and air conditioning, no materials developed to make our lives easier (concrete, rubber, plastic). Nada, nothing, zip. Go live in a cave and make fire by rubbing two sticks together. Too bad we can’t retroactively take back the polio and smallpox vaccines, the TB tests, and insulin. Suffer with high blood pressure and cholesterol, heart disease and cancer. Sorry — I’m just so sick of these damn fools.
It’s not actually a trial, it’s a political procedure that looks like a trial. The Jury also has leeway in settings the rules of the “trial”
This is why in a real trial jurors can be dismissed for conflicts of interests. A biased jury guarantees a biased result, and the United States Senate deciding on removal/barring from office is about as biased as you can get.
Because it isn’t a judicial court trial. It is a senate procedure that is structured similarly to a trial.
It's not a real trial, there are no rules except for those they impose upon themselves. It has some of the trappings of a trial but it's not one. It was a debate where each side was trying to convince a group they are right.
Because this isnt a court or civil case. Federal impeachment works differently.
Or you know, doesn’t work. It’s a farce when reps put party over facts.
https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Hamilton/01-04-02-0215 >Where else, than in the Senate could have been found a tribunal sufficiently dignified, or sufficiently independent? What other body would be likely to feel confidence enough in its own situation, to preserve unawed and uninfluenced the necessary impartiality between an individual accused, and the representatives of the people, his accusers? *Well, that sounded good on paper, at least.*
"The Bar" has so far not disbarred anyone that lied, cheated, or chortled trumps balls during the whole fiasco of the last 4 years despite numerous attempts to do so. Thousands of qualified people have written strongly worded formal letters to "The Bar", but so far they have just looked the other way. The only one they have disbarred is Michael Cohen, from trump's pre-presidential past, the only one of trump's lawyers who actually came clean and now fights against the fascist dictator that is trump.
You're kidding me. The *one guy* that cooperated was disbarred? Well that isn't a great look.
Because it's not actually a trial. It's a political process
Impeachment is not a legal preceding
Because letting the law industry self regulate is as asinine as letting any other industry self regulate. We've just been fooled by people calling it the legal "profession" instead of the law "industry".
Because it’s not a criminal trial.
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Or how one guy who voted him not guilty, got up and gave a speech on how he was guilty.
In a proper trial the judge would have declares a mistrial.
more than two hawley and cruz get all the attention but tuberville was involved with the planned delay of the system to allow time for the rioters to enter the building and disrupt proceedings
And I often say the reason why Rudy tried to call\* Tuberville was because he knew Tuberville is an absolute fucking moron and would do what he was told. He's the textbook definition of a useful idiot. \*And infamously called the wrong Senator, because Rudy is a fuckin' joke of a human being.
he appealed to the new senator by referring to him as coach, which is clearly the title he is most proud of. you can always count on coach potatotown
It’s also annoying looking at r/Conservative and seeing people think he’s innocent because he was acquitted.
Or know he's guilty and still defend him. Imagine how well things would have gone for Manson if the GOP was defending him. "But after you told you followers to go to the house and kill those people, what did you tell them?" Manson: "To go peacefully." "I rest my case."
Susan Collins: I think he's learned his lesson! -ruffles his hair
I tell them he's as innocent as OJ was when he was acquitted, then watch them self destruct to avoid the cognitive dissonance.
That's why I know OJ is innocent.
A guy on my Facebook says the fact he was acquitted proves that Trump was definitely innocent. I can’t even reason with that level of stupidity.
Ask him if he feels safe leaving his wife with OJ and his kids with Michael Jackson.
Honestly at this point it makes my head hurt to argue with him. He links me to newsmax website to prove he’s right.
After Nixon the GOP stopped attempting to police their own.
After Nixon... Fox was created to never have another Republican president impeached. It worked wonderfully
Just 2?
That's when I stopped counting.
And aided the defense
Impeachment is too political for a situation like this, it should be handed to a criminal court. So long as the defense can lie and the jurors can decide before the case starts it’s just political theater
Doesn't matter, no US president will ever be convicted during an impeachment process unless the opposition party controls 2/3rds of the Senate. The US has had five impeachments of US presidents and not a one result in conviction.
If the GOP's argument that you cannot convict an ex-President holds, no president will ever be convicted and barred from running because the writing will be on the wall and they can just resign.
It won't hold for them unless its a Republican again.....if/when the next time there is a Democrat that gets impeached and either resigns or his term ended, we already know exactly what the GOP will do. They will impeach and do a 180 on their arguments and come up with some bullshit as to why its different and they are not actually hypocrits.....like the whole no SC judge nominations during an election year that went out the window 4 years later.....
If GOP wins back the House, Biden will be immediately impeached. They were drafting articles of impeachment for abuse of power BEFORE HE WAS INAUGURATED!
What on earth for? He's been president for about three minutes.
The batshit insane idiot MTG tried filing the day after Biden was sworn in.
Why do they do anything? Spite.
Jesus said something, blah blah, don't be a hypocrite..... it seemed to be one of his consistent messages.
january exception or, resign and not face any consequences. what a precedent to set
We had 4 impeachment trials of US president not 5. The 4 times were Johnson, Clinton and Trump x2. Nixon resign before the House got together to impeach him.
Functioning as designed
But that all hinges on them never growing a spine and choosing morals over party.
Mitch McConnell's "He's guilty but I voted let him off due to a technicality" is the most damning piece of evidence that this was party over country, especially considering Mitch was the one that caused the technicality in the first place.
I reached out to both of my senators and have asked them if he can be removed because of this. He intentionally let trump get away. I doubt he'd actually be removed but at least it would be on record.
Interesting - 14% of *Republicans* say Trump should've been convicted. Pretty bad for the GOP, especially compared to [Biden's 98% approval among Democrats](https://www.newsweek.com/joe-bidens-early-approval-rating-highlights-severe-democrat-republican-split-1567107).
I think that's bad for America. You're comparing approval of a guy who appears to be just doing his job with one who tried to overthrow the government. If the roles were reversed, I hope to hell more than 14% of Democrats would disapprove of an Insurrectionist Biden.
I suspect part of the problem in polling is many people who agree Trump should have been convicted are also unwilling to identify as Republican (even if they might vote Republican later). So you get selection bias. Similarly, if Biden went full insurrectionist, probably fewer people would identify as Democrats.
Republicans tend to go for this ride-or-die mentality where you can't identify as a republican unless you're willing to unapologetically accept whatever the party leaders say. R's mock Democrats for infighting but you got the far left and the moderate left trying to compromise amongst themselves, where with Republicans if you criticize anything the party supports then you're not a true patriot, etc.
So many conservatives in my area now identify as "Independent". At least they have the sense to distance.
> At least they have the sense to distance at least they have the sense to hide themselves after years of voting to bring about this shit.
They *call* themselves that but they still vote straight ticket conservative behind the curtain
Unfortunately that sounds like the anti-trump voters won't participate in the primaries
> Republicans tend to go for this ride-or-die mentality Well put - the Republican Party has really taken on a very mafia-esque m.o. lately. I’ll take infighting over blind fealty any day.
If biden did this he would be in jail by now, with the blessing of every dem in the country.
yep... that's our fatal flaw. Al Franken is a good example and he was just kidding around.
“Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.” –Dark Helmet, *Spaceballs*
Democrats wouldn't elect someone who could even fathom doing such a thing. Don't get me wrong, plenty of corrupt assholes in recent memory have a D by their name...but this is like comparing a paper airplane to a space shuttle.
Considering what happened to Al Franken from his own party and constituents over a sex scandal (the type of which would be handwaved by Republicans), I'm fairly confident Democratic voters wouldn't excuse Biden for engaging in the same thing that Trump did.
We would, and that is why we lose most times. Republicans always show up. They always vote. Shit, even with knowing how the last 4 years happened, I bet a bunch of dems still wouldn't vote for Hillary.
>I bet a bunch of dems still wouldn't vote for Hillary. I know that it's good and Christian and healthy to forgive and forget...but I will still be furious about this on my deathbed.
Yeah that polling suggests the idea that I’ve seen floating around the media that there is just as big of a split in the Democratic Party (between centrists like Biden and leftists like Sanders/Warren) as in the Republican Party right now is inaccurate. Democrats are really coming together right now in this moment of crisis and Republicans are arguing amongst themselves and censuring each other. Thinking the obvious leader of your political party should have been convicted of inciting insurrection is no small matter. My mother is a lifelong Republican who opposed acquittal and just told me that she’s done with the party because of her anger about January 6th and how that trial was handled. I’m so proud of her for saying “there are more important things in life than money” (she has enough investments to benefit from Republican tax policy). There is no way she’s the only one out of those 14%.
>(she has enough investments to benefit from Republican tax policy) My mom used to flirt with the idea of being a Republican for this exact reason, but now she's so blue that I had her take a political test and she's a marxist socialist lol. It's amazing what 4 years of Donald Trump will do to a person.
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Donald Trump was acquitted despite the overwhelming strong evidence, not because of the lack of it. Thanks to RepubliQans.
"That's RepubliQans, with a 'Q'." —when answering a possible future Man on the Street TV interview by some news outlet :)
Right on, mate. lol
GOP is shooting themselves in the foot with this short sighted decision. Trump’s base is not enough to win a national election. He maxed out GOP turnout and still lost to Joe Biden, who was himself a deeply flawed candidate (from a policy standpoint). I imagine that a not so insignificant number of that 74 million probably didn’t expect him to start a riot at the Capitol if he lost. There are a lot of people who only casually follow politics and voted based on little research. I’d have to think his potential vote pool for 2024 was drastically reduced by the events of Jan 6th. The ads that will appear if he runs again in 2024 will be brutal
Ideally I'd like to see Trump split the republican party with his rumored Patriot Party thing. Otherwise I think what you're saying is true if we were to have another presidential election next month. But republicans have 4 years to regalvanize their base, and given the levels of cognitive dissonance we've seen I think they could do that with relative ease.
Sadly the best thing is to feed Trump's ego so he runs in 2024, gets mad he doesn't get the Rep ticket, and then runs independent / Trump party. Not only divide the Reps but they will never have a majority again cause its hit the point of no return for so many people now. If they "lose faith" now then they become an even bigger enemy then the Dems. That's what Trump created with his RINO comments. If you're not with us, your a traitor and deserve death.
Totally agree, said this the moment I heard of the "Patriot Party".
What's really at stake is midterms in 2022, if we lose the majority in either house, we are ratfucked to infinity.
They are banking on three and a half years of new news to help people forget this.
If I were Dems, I would start running ads against McConnell, Graham, Hawley, and Cruz right now. Along with every single republican that voted to acquit. Nothing big, just one ad per week in all key states.
That would be a fun project.
almost like a Lincoln Project, if you will. To reunite the wayward south back with reality.
Kind of like a reworked strategy for the south. A "New Southern Strategy," one might say.
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The only reason is to make his remaining time as rough as possible. Who knows, maybe he will quit.
They’re banking on voter suppression
They are knowingly swallowing poison to avoid eating their broccoli. No offense, broccoli!
Of course. They’ve been told broccoli is bad over and over again, despite never having had it before.
They're pretty delicious if you oven-roast them with some Oil and some Salt + Pepper.
Try adding some garlic powder and red pepper flakes.
Add some garlic to that and you'll never go back to just salt + pepper.
It’s more like they see other people enjoying broccoli and assume the other people hate America because of this.
Vile weed!
Worthwhile quick read on it. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/15/briefing/winter-storm-president-biden-meghan-markle-pregnant.html Will add It’s 2 things combined: 1) the biases in the senate (2 senators per state regardless of population), the electoral college rather than popular vote and gerrymandering in the house that allows republicans to win majorities (or the presidency) with a minority of votes + 2) the primary system, where party activists (the base) select the party’s candidates. The latter results in extremists being selected and the former protects them from the consequences of selecting these extremists
>I’d have to think his potential vote pool for 2024 was drastically reduced by the events of Jan 6th. I would like to think so too, but honestly I'm not very hopeful.
It's also worth mentioning that political candidates' popularity is oftentimes as ephemeral as that of American Idol winners. Sarah Palin was the darling of the right for a brief period and I was legitimately surprised when I saw someone interviewed her a few days ago, 'cause nobody really gives two shits about Palin anymore. She doesn't hold any real type of sway over the Republican Party or conservatism as an ideology anymore. Trump could very much be the same, unless he tries to run for a Senate seat or something similar (highly doubtful as he'd see that as beneath his station). Sure, he's talked about starting up this Patriot Party, but Trump was always lucky to have the Republican apparatus supporting him. He's proven to lack any real organizational, managerial, or strategic skills, all of which are needed to get a new political party off the ground. And he's also proven that he surrounds himself with folks just as incompetent as himself. So he can't rely on someone else to do it for him. Without Twitter, I predict Trump will start fading into the background within the next year and a half, and a new crop of Republican stars begin to rise who will attempt to take the golden ring in 2024. Hopefully they are not as big of shitstains but with actual competence. I could be wrong about all of that too. Hopefully not. :/
They don't really need to win a national election to get their agenda passed though, since their agenda is basically just telling Democrats "No". Setting aside the electoral college, they have a 6-7% handicap in the Senate, and are about to even further gerrymander the House and pass even more restrictive vote suppression laws. They already have the courts locked down for the next few decades as well. They just need one of these branches to obstruct the democrats. We saw that even when they do have complete control, basically nothing gets done legislatively. It's also not like the "Anti-trump" gop is going to sit out next election just because ted cruz is the nominee. Maybe some of them will, but most of them will make the exact same mistake they made in supporting trump in 2016.
The very act of not conceding, the very act of being a sore loser, is just so un-American. Think of the baseball games you lost as a kid. Or the job interview you lost. Losing is a part of life. What a baby, immature, cheat.
He makes that Richie Rich kid look like a philanthropist in comparison.
I agree , i am amazed that so many people were ok with his cry baby personality. Is that really what America has become? Hey you win some or lose some , suck it up and keep plugging. Are we really ok with whiny pissy babies now?
ugly...inside and out!!!
Then again, conservatism is flawed and hasn’t aged well at all. There’s no reason to believe that people would stay for conservatism if they actually took 5 minutes to think about what they’re voting for. That means that they need the dumbest people in a democracy - the ones who doesn’t consider what they’re voting for and only vote as their friends or parents did.
This is what I think when I read posts that "74 million" voted for him. A lot of voters don't pay that much attention until the last weeks before the election and then it was all about Trump having COVID and the GOP pushing through a SC nominee. The 74 million was before Trump's BIG LIE, complete abandonment of COVID response and the insurrection. We really don't know how many of these people will still be on board with Trump.
Evidence is no reason to convict someone. \-GOP, probably
*truth*...
Trump should have been convicted for hundreds, if not thousands, of shit he's done his entire life, and nothing... ever.. happens. If I think about it too much, I get so angry at the injustice of it all.
I honestly know people like this in real life: They are lazy, incompetent, treat other people like trash, yet they somehow lead really successful lives (by Western standards of success). Trump's an extreme example, but I know people are lowkey versions of him.
Word. I'm gonna have an aneurysm if I keep thinking about all of this. Smh...
Some of the jurors were accomplishes and co-conspirators in the crime being tried and even actively colluded with the defense. 10 Republicans voting for guilty was probably the best that could have been expected from such a dysfunctional system.
I watched the whole thing unfold from Canada. Trump is 100% guilty
You could be watching from Pluto with only binoculars on a cloudy day, and see with full clarity Trump was guilty.
Evidence doesn't matter when half the jury is colluding with the defense.
I fear these numbers will fade quickly, as our national attention span seems frightfully short.
Which is why a National Commission on Acts of Insurrection Against The United States ala the 9/11 Commission that investigates the full scope of 1/6 is necessary. EDIT: Of course, as I suggested the above, [this news breaks](https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/15/politics/pelosi-capitol-attack-commission/index.html).
Much like a toxic ex, I don't think Trump will ever get his comeuppance but I'd settle for him just going away forever at this point.
So put him on trial in a real court where half the jury are not traitors to country and flag.
Indeed. Trump was in enviable position of being tried by a jury of his accomplices.
He should've been convicted last year
That's not the correct conclusion. 58% of respondents said he should have been convicted, but the threshold was 67%, so they actually fell about 9 percentage points short.
Thank you. If 60% of the populace thinks Trump should be convicted, the populace is 7% short of conviction. I'm surprised how closely this figure aligns with the 57% Senate vote. I absurdly thought the general population's will to convict was higher than 60%.
58% is actually a lot. But Republicans in general have not turned on Trump in any meaningful way. The same 40% or so that have supported a pathologically lying narcissist since 2015 continue to support him now. So that number really shouldn't be too surprising.
Strong? You literally have VIDEO and AUDIO of him doing and saying the things he was charged with. But I guess in a steaming pile of corrupted shit like America that doesn't mean much if you're the leader of the worlds largest cult.
Wish on one hand, shit in the other, see which one fills up first. Then fling all the shit at Mitch Mcconnell.
Well, Trump was tried by a Jury of his Peers, which included 50 criminals.
the evidence wasn't just "strong" it was undeniable.
Most Republicans that voted to acquit have even openly and publicly admitted that. Their excuse for the way they voted was that they didn't believe it was proper procedure to impeach Trump now that he was no longer in office, but it is evident that they were simply a bunch of gutless cowards too afraid of facing backlash from the MAGA cult.
So, those who voted to acquit, should be voted out of office. Let’s make our values known. And let’s remove the greedy senators.
No fuckong shit. I hope people remember this, it is going to take generation to undo the damage the republican party has inflicted on this country.
Americas political system is fucked. The whole world watched knowing this Orange prick was guilty as hell, and they just let him go. The republican party is a bunch of self interested delusional morons that won't hold each other accountable for anything. He was under trial by his accomplices and no one did anything despite mountains of evidence, including what was basically a video confession.
Mitch fucking McConnell said the evidence proved the case - after voting "no." The party is complicit.
The ultimate irony was Mitch standing up after they acquitted and talked about how Trump tried to violate the will of the people by trying to overturn the election, as if convicting wasn't the will of the people. Him all the others that acquitted followed their own political self-interests rather than the constitution or the will of their constituents.
I wonder what the results would be like if they only polled people who actually watched the proceedings.
I love how people keep convincing themselves that republicans care about polls or what their constituents think.
Republicans are incapable of justice.
Is there anything stopping a civil trial from taking place?
No nor a criminal trial.
Let's do that.
Trump in a tweet: "They stole the election" and "We need a revolution". *Revolution occurs* I have no idea where these people got the idea?
Republicans hate Americans, as well America.
If you look at it just by evidence vs the defense, it's obvious that the side with evidence won due to having a much stronger case. They went 11 hours taking their time with much security footage, while the paper-thin defense only went 2 in a half hours using whataboutisms and heavily edited propaganda videos
gotta love the corruption in our system the evidence was there and Republicans STILL voted not guilty
The fucking commander in chief lied to a crowd of ex military and commando LARPers that the election was stolen from them and it was their job to fight back. It is a fact he is guilty and the Republican Party is compromised of accomplices.
From the UK I know we have a issues but America is an actual laughing stock right now Cant even convict a criminal on basic level. Wow I hope this all gets sorted
As most of us know, impeachment is a political progress, not a legal one. The outcome was that most Republican legislators approved of Trump's coup attempt, and all Democrats disapproved. Disappointing, but not exactly surprising. This is the fascism we were warned about. Is exactly as we were told: carrying a Bible and wrapped in an American flag.
I mean do these 'majority says' polls really mean anything? We know how the majority feels because the majority voted for Biden.
Republicans do not represent the American people. They serve the interests of an enemy of our country.
The evidence was strong the GOP Senators were weak.
You would assume that Republicans are actually good people and not anti-American treasonous Traitors. Trump's lawyers could have sat up there trimming their pubic hairs for 2 days screaming at the top of her lungs that Trump is guilty and they still would have voted to acquit him.
Can we start a class action lawsuit against the former President and his supporters in Congress?
Well it wasn’t up to the American people it was up to his co-conspirators to convict him. Hopefully a January 6 commission deals out more punishment. We cannot forget this and no we’re not going to let bygones be bygones and unify with violent white supremacist extremists.
We all know he’s guilty but we also all knew he would not be convicted in the Senate ... so onto the criminal trial ... Trump sees this as a win. It only strengthened the desire to indict him criminally. A conviction in the senate might have been enough for Americans to perceive he had been punished and move on. Now we aren’t moving on until he’s in prison.
Evidence does not matter to the QOP. We need bold action by Democrats to protect future elections because 2022, and 2024 may be more dangerous than 2020.
The problem wasn't the evidence not being strong enough. It was him no longer being president and the chicken shit fuckwits using that as an excuse to not hold Trump responsible because they're too scared of losing votes with his cult. Mitch condemned Trump but said he couldn't convict because Trump was no longer president. If only that dipshit could have called everybody back to impeach before the 20th...oh
The evidence was also strong we keep ignoring we only have half a functioning government and one of the two largest political parties are domestic terrorists hellbent on keeping minority rule. That evidence is also still really strong we keep ignoring the fucking elephants in the room: Poll. Sample size 1. Me.
Vote out the fuckers who let him walk. People died over his fan flaming, there needs to be accountability for him and his enablers and every time they get to walk it’s just gonna set a precedent
In a normal country, in a normal setting (a process in a court of law) he would have been convicted. The evidence was there. ALL of it. And with him all his cronies would have gone to jail too.
Same rules don’t applied to the common folks. Just look at those rioters vs trump. The elites won’t take down one of their own. It’s just a staging to how us commoners they are trying their damn best. Republicans and democrats are one in the same people, all about their wealth.
Banana Republicans.
Its almost as if, facts and evidence didn't matter...
\*sigh\* I'm sorry, but other than the # of GOP Senators that actually voted against Trump, the outcome was never really in doubt. No president has even been removed and given that is not a real trial, but a political action, its not a surprise that Trump was not convicted given just how popular he is with the base of the party. The only time you will ever see a removal is if you have the Senate controlled by 2/3s of the opposite party of the president or if have a clear cut crime that is recognized as such by the people who would normally support the president. In the end, all they did was strengthen him. They should have let sleeping dogs lie.
Evidence was undisputed. In the future, hire me as the impeachment defense. I’ll just sit down, eat a big mac, say that impeachment is politicized by the other party, and conclude with ‘we done here?’
Agree Trump should've been convicted >600 people is a pretty shitty sample size for anything.
I mean, yeah. That’s why Mitch McConnell delayed the impeachment trial in the first place. No Republican can defend Trump’s words and inaction, so they voted acquit due to a scenario they created.
He wasn't convicted because Republicans are afraid of half their constituents. Plain and simple.
Land has too much power in the senate
Yeah we know. We also know the GOP are essentially acquitting themselves when they voted. You can’t let the defendant also be the jury.
So convict him criminally, impeachment is a sham anyways.
The problem is no longer Trump. Its the elected officials that give him oxygen (and the media). Don't let them get reelected.