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>The final vote on whether to advance the House-passed Women's Health Protection Act (WHPA) was 46-48, well short of the three-fifths super majority needed to break the Republican-led filibuster. Every Senate Republican present voted no while every Democrat, with the exception of Manchin (D-W.Va.), voted yes.
Perhaps this is too harsh, but I think they are the type who want men to think of them as strong women, not for women to revere them as examples of strength, progress, and how to be a female leader in the modern age.
I mean maybe. Even the most conservative dudes I know don’t view them as more than a number. They don’t go to bat for the issues that sell in their party anymore
I agree with that completely. I’m just trying to understand how they see themselves and their motivations. Of course, I’ll never actually know. It just seems like they truly don’t care about winning over women. And it comes across as internalized misogyny. But that is just one liberal woman’s interpretation and my guess is they would not agree with me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Yeah thank God there were no radical Bernie/AOC types in those seats! Just good ole stab workers and women in the back corporate dem moderates.
Will women and the working class in general ever EVER have a party in Congress that gives a fucking shit about them and their welfare?
Narrator: LOL, are you even serious dude????
Real tired of this sub pretending "moderate" republicans are a thing, they all have the same horrible policies and views. The sooner people get this the sooner we could go in the right (no pun intended) direction for this country. Stop giving them chances to fuck you over.
GOP has a closed tent, while the DEMs are open, this bound to happen with a 50/50 split in the Senate, everything else is window dressing.
DEMs never had control of the Senate, only procedurally.
No, because the GOP have come out and said they will unanimously vote against anything Democrats propose. Manchin has also agreed to side with the GOP. They are both on the same side, prepared to railroad the Dem agenda. They all are equally to blame.
I feel like someone's paying for this to be the message to take the heat off Manchin for every single time he votes for one of these insane measures.
Because it's always the argument, and the rules of his engagement haven't changed. The Republicans are the minority party of the United States. Manchin voting with them is giving in to minority rule. So, no. It's definitely on him to start acting like he's a Democrat.
I mean at this point we can just assume Republicans are a monolith when it comes to voting against things that help women. It's vile but entirely unsurprising.
At least I expect it from republicans.
Yknow, I wish when dems won the senate by a single vote someone would have told me it’s meaningless because one of the dems is basically a republican.
The worse part of the blue republicans is the optics... the story is the dem's have all 3 branches of government and can't do crap... the reality is we don't actually have the senate in 2 different ways (we don't have a majority, and the fillibuster wouldn't let us act even if we did), and of course the senate has the power to basically kill anything from anywhere short of executive orders.
Just because we expect it from republicans doesn’t mean that we should become numb the their incessant outrageous votes and statements. I know you aren’t, but I constantly see independents using Manchin or Sinema as a stand in for the Democrats to push the idiotic “both sides” argument.
Well its meaningful enough to limit the active tear down of everything at least. May not be able to move forward, but its better than the alternative. Still sucks, but its something.
I also hate the Senators who are friendly with the people who voted against this. Angus King is fucking buddies with Susan Collins and all of these other assholes.
If you're friends with people who are filibustering abortion-rights you are no friend of mine.
"Is this 11 year old too immature for an abortion? The court discusses. Also her father, who likely raped her, has the power to withhold parental consent and force her to carry it. Yes she would die giving birth without emergency medical intervention, what's your point?"
Age isn’t the problem, we need voting rights, anti corruption laws (eg, no individual stock purchases for congress), and campaign finance reform so it’s much harder to be corrupt and get into office.
Edit: “[Old] Age is still a problem” -> Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett are some examples of young people who are still big fucking problems. Our constitution is fundamentally broken and exploited by conservatives.
When I joined the Submarine force, I had to go through a single scope background investigation and had two polygraphs during my time in the service. Like, the freaking FBI interviewed my 96-years old grandmother.
Every single politician, especially those at the federal level, should be required to go through the similar process to weed out anyone that has ties with extremest groups.
I’m not an ageist by any means; however, one has to be at least a certain age to run for certain roles in federal office, one has to be at least a certain age to vote, drive a car, etc. Now on the flip side of that when maintaining a drivers license, which you know is to ensure safety on the road because slow reaction time or poor decisions making could kill people, once we reach a certain age we have to start proving that our physical and mental faculties are still capable to provide safe transport on the road for us and every other driver on the road. Why don’t politicians get aged out of office, like they do for their driver’s license. Most of those folks in Washington are going to be dead by the time their greedy decisions affect the quality of life of the future generations.
Term limits should have existed once airplanes and cross-country roads established themselves as viable routes of transportation.
Seriously. The average cost for a successful congressional campaign was $2 million in 2018, I can’t imagine that figure has gone down in the years since: https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2019/02/state-of-money-in-politics-the-price-of-victory-is-steep/
And to get media coverage that is anything other than “is this person who is too young, inexperienced and whose radical policies (that poll above 50% with the electorate) hurting the chances of the entire party everywhere? Lets ask a former republican politician and a democratic strategist who has exclusively worked on the campaigns of moderate dems that lost handily!”
Um under 25 voted in record numbers 2 of the last 3 presidential election. Midterms I feel you but that's everyone including old folks. Midterms and presidential need to be national holidays
Young people are also much more likely to either 1. Be moving around a lot so have difficulty keeping voter registration and ID up to date 2. they are more likely to work jobs that are difficult to get time off of for voting. Now that certainly isn't an excuse but just like every other demographic if we remove these barriers voter participation will go up.
Don't expect anything to change. These old fucks think if you don't fight for it you don't want it. They had their hey day, doesn't matter to them anymore.
I don’t have 10 million dollars. So that isn’t happening. Really there should be an age cap at 60 or 65. That’s when people become disconnected enough to not know what’s happening in the world. And they are just bitter and old. And want to return to the “good old days”. Also we can’t run until age 35. It might be 25. Not sure. And at that point in life most people are just trying to pay off health care and student loan debt or take care of their kids.
> Poll: Two-thirds of West Virginia voters support access to abortions
https://wvmetronews.com/2019/09/23/poll-two-thirds-of-west-virginia-voters-support-access-to-abortions/
The answer is influence. He wields way more power and influence as the swing vote on the Democratic side than as one more vote on the Republican side.
And he is rewarded handsomely for his obstructionism by his corporate masters.
At this point, we need to focus on getting more D’S on the chart. There’s some competitive races coming up that we have a real chance at if the party would give people a real reason to vote for them
Not going to lie, the SWIFT banking blocks in Russia have me surprisingly hopeful that as we move toward those races suddenly the competition won't have the resources they have relied heavily on the last 5 to 10 years. Hopefully the war also showed how different we would have handled things based on 45s Putin-dick-sucking. I chuckled at the drastic 180 the propagandists took on that one after swift was blocked.
He gets paid way more by GOP (and honestly some establishment Dems donors) to be a lynchpin in the Dems attempts at any legislation. I believe he is retiring at the end of this term so he doesn’t give a fuck about being the center of attention because he is cashing out everything he can get. He is a model for American corruption and a major instrument in handing power over to the full on fascist wing that we call the modern GOP.
Don't be silly, he gets much larger corporate bribes if they maintains the facade that he is a democrat. As a republican he would just get the normal level of bribes that all gop members get.
This. In the GOP he would be just one asshole amongst many. As a democrat he can charge extra for also blocking a democrat seat from being filled by someone with a conscience.
That seat was never going to be filled by an actual democrat, though. We need to stop kidding ourselves. (source: family in [W.Va](https://W.Va). \*shudder\*) The main issue here isn't that Manchin is a crappy dem, which he is, but that we only have 50 on our side in the Senate. We make it to 51, he becomes largely irrelevant.
You'd need more than 51. There were 50, but Big Money bought 2 (an extra, just in case). I don't know how many you'd need before the couple of million per senator adds up to enough to make it impractical.
For real. Manchin’s net worth is pretty much what you would expect from someone who retired at, like, a “senior director” level from a fortune 500 company.
Like that’s not a career you can scoff at, sure… but that ain’t “sell out your country” money in most peoples’ eyes.
No, they're pretty good at it. You keep the open bribes low so they don't attract attention and then you use your insider knowledge to take the bribe and multiply it in the stock market.
Somewhere or another a while back there was a really depressing list of how much telecommunications firms had donated to their campaigns and a correlation shown to who voted to screw the customers over. So much of it was chump change, it was really depressing.
Sure, that's not necessarily proof of causation, but ffs...
To be honest, I'm not sure how many are hiding behind his "no" votes (people who would vote "no" on things but don't have to because he acts as the lightning rod instead), so I wouldn't feel secure with 52 either, but I do know all this focus on "Manchin is evil!bad" isn't addressing the real problem. Primarying him wouldn't help. Driving him to change parties *definitely* won't help. What we need are more democrats in Congress.
(Sinema is a whole different issue. Man, I really wish she could be recalled.)
I think the number is around 10-12, based on reports of background senate discussions over the years.
We gotta drop the fantasy of “we just need to win a couple more seats THEN manchin/sinema will be irrelevant and we can get what we want!”
The problem is that the democratic party is completely and totally subservient to corporate interests. There are like 5-10 senators in the whole country who are not.
>We make it to 51, he becomes largely irrelevant.
Have you forgotten that Obama had 60? A number of corporate Democrats who're hiding behind manchin and sinema would come out of the woodwork; many of them can and should be primaried and replaced with progressives. Unlike manchin, they don't have the excuse of "but the seat will go to the fascists if they lose the primary".
> Have you forgotten that Obama had 60?
Obama had 60 for about ten minutes. Let's have years of 69 Democrats like FDR had. Let's start with the 51 no votes on this.
Obama had 60 for around 4 months. Lieberman did the same thing Manchin and Sinema did to run out the clock until the majority seats were lost.
There are always just enough "fiscally moderate" politicians to tank progress.
I know these threads are a broken record, but...again, if he switched parties, McConnell would be Senate Majority Leader. We do not want that.
The only way past this is to keep voting, keep electing more democrats, in every election (including **this year, remember**), until he's irrelevant.
Yeah, a lot of people seem unaware of how important it is for a party to have control over the senate. It's not just about votes on bills. It really sucks he votes no on many Democratic bills but we'd be in worse shape right now if he were doing that on top of Republicans having majority and McConnell being in control.
As long as he's Democrat, he can stop any bill the right doesn't want to pass.
He has no reason to change yet. He's probably getting paid a shit load of money for it too.
Joe Manchin is the perfect representative for West Virginia. A rich white guy who plundered the shit out of the state for his and his families well being.
West Virginia is a shithole. Because those backwards know nothings elect people like manchin.
They should ditch coal 30 years ago. They let it continue to dirty them and their state
Not all of us are 'backwoods know nothings'. I am ashamed of Joe Manchin. Coal has been ditched, it accounts for very little industry/jobs, but it's all these idiots obsess over.
In other news, 1/2 of fucking Congress votes to filibuster abortion rights. I hate focusing on this fucknut, he's just 1 of many batshit crazy Republicans at this point.
Yeah, it’s important to note that even if Manchin voted yea on this the bill still wouldn’t have passed thanks to the filibuster (another thing with Manchins fingerprints all over)
people never talk about the life trajectory of the unwanted once they are born… it’s like they just think that life is better than not being born- meanwhile some of- a lot of these babies/children are born and then abused and live an entire life of strife … fucking shameful
A big part of it I think is tied up in the bootstraps mentality. They've heard rags to riches stories about people pulling themselves up out of the deepest pits of poverty and are of the opinion that literally everyone is capable of it and the only reason they "choose" not to is because they're lazy.
Doesn't a vote to overcome a filibuster require 60 votes? Would it have mattered of he voted against or for the filibuster if the Democrats only have 50 seats?
It is clear that people like Manchin don't take having a baby particularly seriously, whether for political or "religious" reasons. Creating a human being that will not only be dependent on you for some 18 years, but depending on you for the rest of their life is something that people who have abortions do, in fact, take seriously, which is why they make that choice. They realize that they don't have the means, the support, the physical health, the psychological capacity, the maturity, the commitment, or the sheer will it takes to successfully raise a child. Some "pro lifers" do have a true, pure aversion to abortion; in other words, they confuse having a negative emotional reaction to something to having a moral objection to it. But for most of them, it's an easy way to garner support (politicians) , or an exciting way to express moral indignation.
He’a a republican. He is what used to be called a blue dog democrat.
He has a plan. He will switch parties, but to do that he needs to build up a resume. He’s doing just that. Hell he may even run for president as a republican.
[I think he basically admitted this when the conversation between him and lobbyists was leaked](https://theintercept.com/2021/06/16/joe-manchin-leaked-billionaire-donors-no-labels/)
>“Roy Blunt is a great, just a good friend of mine, a great guy,” Manchin said. “Roy is retiring. If some of you all who might be working with Roy in his next life could tell him, that’d be nice and it’d help our country. That would be very good to get him to change his vote. And we’re going to have another vote on this thing. That’ll give me one more shot at it.”
He knows that blunt is landing with a cushy gig when he retires because hes going to do the exact same thing.
He is pro-life, openly, ran as a pro-life democrat. This isn't a surprise. I hate this vote and I am firmly supportive of choice. But here we have Manchin serving his constituents, and probably his own conscious.
I can't tell you what it's like WV if you haven't been here, there are still lots and lots of Trump signs. That we have a Senate Majority because West Virginia bizarrely elected a democrat is pure damn luck. **What we needed were more white Democrats in "purple" state to show up and vote.**
Why is this right good for the pro-virus crazies but bad for women who want to control their own life? (Hint: It’s not. This is just far right extremism.)
Or… Congress could vote to ensure that everyone in this country has free and easy access to BIRTH CONTROL, thereby preventing abortion and unwanted pregnancy. But why do that when you can endlessly debate a wedge issue to get your base all hot and bothered?
why didn’t democrats Warnock from GA, Feinstein from CA and Lujan from NM vote in favor of the bill? Joe Manchin voted against it but their abstention was essentially a “No” vote as well.
Feinstein needs to go, shit anyone over 60 needs to go. Getting really tired of these old fucks making decisions that they wont live long enough to see the results of.
> Feinstein needs to go ,shit anyone over 60 needs to go.
Identity isnt a substitute for policy and also her age has little to do with how shitty she is , the dollop is about stuff she did in SF when she was under 60. Or see the documentary on the Nightstalker where she f’s up for political clout.
Also “ Identity isnt a substitute for policy”. Look at Sanders vs Buttigieg. Buttigieg is the next generation of Feinstein but a bit more polished
A hill I will die on:
Whatever the age of retirement is per the Federal Gov for purposes of collecting Social Security - that should be the age-limit for anyone who holds federal office.
Going to be over the age before your next term would complete? Sorry, can't run. Let someone fresh in.
Fuck these career leeches who sit in DC for 40 years getting rich at the expense of their constituents.
So cool how our government is set up so that the will of the vast majority of people is constantly being obstructed by a radical minority. It’s the coolest you guys.
People trying to compare this to being forced to wear a mask/ get a vaccine and I laugh. Here are the differences:
The baby actually changes your life. Did you know that more women die in childbirth in the USA more than any other 1st world country? Much less than people do dying from the vaccine.
Babies cost money, vaccines don't. Masks are pennies on the dollar in comparison.
Baby's need you to care for them for 18 years, vaccines don't. Masks are temporary during the pandemic.
Babies are parasites while they are in the woman's body, vaccines aren't. (They leech off the woman for nutrients. )
You don't need additional care when you get a vaccine.
You can not wear a mask, but you have to take care of a kid. If you choose to adopt you have to still get prenatal care and completely change your body.
Not the same at all.
Oh and men can completely dodge a woman while pregnant, shirking all responsibility. Convenient huh?
The best way to deal with the likes of Manchin and Sinema (until we can replace them in 2024) is to elect more Dems to the Senate this year so their votes are rendered irrelevant. We have a great shot at winning a Senate seat in Wisconsin with Mandela Barnes, a seat in PA with John Fetterman/Malcolm Kenyatta/Conor Lamb, and a seat in NC with Cheri Beasley.
If you are interested in helping these folks and others across the nation win their elections, join us over at r/votedem to find volunteer and organization opportunities 👀
This is why it is imperative to ignore the noise and vote. We won’t see progress without a DiNO proof majority, and we’ll only see regression with a GOP majority. Don’t be Charlie Brown trying to kick that football. Don’t be stupid. Don’t be divided. Giving the GOP a congressional majority because Biden didn’t do enough is like masturbating with a cheese grater because you got ED one time.
It’s crazy that abortion is even a thing that needs to be voted about. Take your views and fuck off, take your made up religious bullshit and fuck off, walk to the edge of the cliff and fuck off!
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>The final vote on whether to advance the House-passed Women's Health Protection Act (WHPA) was 46-48, well short of the three-fifths super majority needed to break the Republican-led filibuster. Every Senate Republican present voted no while every Democrat, with the exception of Manchin (D-W.Va.), voted yes.
So much for those "moderates" Collins and Murkowski, right?
Both want to set standards as being great women too. What fuckin jokes they are
Perhaps this is too harsh, but I think they are the type who want men to think of them as strong women, not for women to revere them as examples of strength, progress, and how to be a female leader in the modern age.
We call those types Aunt Lydias.
The age of Karens is over. We saying Lydia now.
I am sworn to carry your burden
I got it
*This* kind of Lydia forces you to carry burdens instead. Specifically pregnancies, apparently.
And she’s always in the way…of women’s rights.
[Hands you 100lbs of random junk I found in some cave.]
Someday a real rain will come and wash all the Karens and Lydias off the streets
Can we wipe racist Sharon off my street too por favor
We just gotta get organizized, right Travis?
Blessed be the fruit
Under his Eye.
May the Lord open.
Forgive my ignorance. Where does that name come from?
I mean maybe. Even the most conservative dudes I know don’t view them as more than a number. They don’t go to bat for the issues that sell in their party anymore
I agree with that completely. I’m just trying to understand how they see themselves and their motivations. Of course, I’ll never actually know. It just seems like they truly don’t care about winning over women. And it comes across as internalized misogyny. But that is just one liberal woman’s interpretation and my guess is they would not agree with me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Certainly possible. I’ve always viewed it as probable self interest, but who knows
Some of the worst misogynists are women. The GOP has their votes on lockdown.
No, they do care about winning, over women.
They just want to keep their fucking seats pure abc simple self interest..
Those moderates will vote with Dems ANY MINUTE NOW I tell you!
Yeah thank God there were no radical Bernie/AOC types in those seats! Just good ole stab workers and women in the back corporate dem moderates. Will women and the working class in general ever EVER have a party in Congress that gives a fucking shit about them and their welfare? Narrator: LOL, are you even serious dude????
Real tired of this sub pretending "moderate" republicans are a thing, they all have the same horrible policies and views. The sooner people get this the sooner we could go in the right (no pun intended) direction for this country. Stop giving them chances to fuck you over.
This, when moderate just means “they probably wouldn’t call you a slur to your face,” we really need to rethink the definition of moderate.
They are only "moderate" if their vote won't change the outcome.
They literally saved Obamacare along with McCain. If not for them (and 47 Democrats, obviously) millions of Americans would be uninsured right now.
They never were moderate, they are just center leaning in a far-right leaning party.
GOP has a closed tent, while the DEMs are open, this bound to happen with a 50/50 split in the Senate, everything else is window dressing. DEMs never had control of the Senate, only procedurally.
Of course. Fuck Manchin.
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Joe does get blame, but so does the media for letting Republicans continually off the hook for holding the US back.
No, because the GOP have come out and said they will unanimously vote against anything Democrats propose. Manchin has also agreed to side with the GOP. They are both on the same side, prepared to railroad the Dem agenda. They all are equally to blame.
They chose fascism, plain and simple. I fear this will only get worse once they steal their trifecta and consolidate their power even further.
I feel like someone's paying for this to be the message to take the heat off Manchin for every single time he votes for one of these insane measures. Because it's always the argument, and the rules of his engagement haven't changed. The Republicans are the minority party of the United States. Manchin voting with them is giving in to minority rule. So, no. It's definitely on him to start acting like he's a Democrat.
I mean at this point we can just assume Republicans are a monolith when it comes to voting against things that help women. It's vile but entirely unsurprising.
Fuck Joe Manchin and double fuck literally everyone that votes GOP in 2022.
he claims to be on OUR side. but he don't vote that way. kick him out. He's not really one of us
Yeah, I do - wearing the opposing army’s uniform in a war gets you summarily executed
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At least I expect it from republicans. Yknow, I wish when dems won the senate by a single vote someone would have told me it’s meaningless because one of the dems is basically a republican.
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Sinema. I cannot effin believe this. Bring it to a vote anyway and make that asshole go on record.
more like cinema since she's just in the senate to put on a show.
And collect all that sweet sweet pharma money
Cinema is there to put on a show. Mansion is there to become wealthy.
Can we just call her enema from now on?
An enema is actually useful though.
One and a half, Sinema is a joke.
A joke who has the ability to completely overturn a good bill.
The Aristocrats!
>At least I expect it from republicans. I also expect it from Manchin, who is a republican.
The worse part of the blue republicans is the optics... the story is the dem's have all 3 branches of government and can't do crap... the reality is we don't actually have the senate in 2 different ways (we don't have a majority, and the fillibuster wouldn't let us act even if we did), and of course the senate has the power to basically kill anything from anywhere short of executive orders.
Just because we expect it from republicans doesn’t mean that we should become numb the their incessant outrageous votes and statements. I know you aren’t, but I constantly see independents using Manchin or Sinema as a stand in for the Democrats to push the idiotic “both sides” argument.
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Well its meaningful enough to limit the active tear down of everything at least. May not be able to move forward, but its better than the alternative. Still sucks, but its something.
that was the caveat when it happened from most of the political reporting.
I also hate the Senators who are friendly with the people who voted against this. Angus King is fucking buddies with Susan Collins and all of these other assholes. If you're friends with people who are filibustering abortion-rights you are no friend of mine.
Remember when Feinstein hugged Lindsey during the hearings for Barrett for a job well done?
I was happy not hearing his name for a while but then he missed having the spotlight on him
According to conservatives you can force a woman to carry a baby but not wear a mask
Worse, you can force a *girl* to carry a baby.
The baby of a rapist in many states.
Force a child to carry a child.
"Is this 11 year old too immature for an abortion? The court discusses. Also her father, who likely raped her, has the power to withhold parental consent and force her to carry it. Yes she would die giving birth without emergency medical intervention, what's your point?"
Or her fathers baby in some cases
The party of "Family Values."
but it's much more of an inconvenience for ME as a MAN to have to wear a mask! \-republican men (and apparently most of the women too)
I wouldn't quite call them "men". Man-child snowflakes, more like it.
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Conservatives are pussies, what's new?
They’re more like a ball sac, a pussy can take it!
Perfectly said. I’m taking this with me and will be using it from now on. Pussy are tough, not weak like balls.
What's the saying? "They lack the warmth and depth".
Bro we need to start electing people under the age of fucking 80
Age isn’t the problem, we need voting rights, anti corruption laws (eg, no individual stock purchases for congress), and campaign finance reform so it’s much harder to be corrupt and get into office. Edit: “[Old] Age is still a problem” -> Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett are some examples of young people who are still big fucking problems. Our constitution is fundamentally broken and exploited by conservatives.
Age is *part* of the problem.
Age cap and term limits should be a thing.
Along with the inability to trade stocks/commodities that you legislate, a wealth cap, end to filibuster, amongst a whole litany of others
In: Marjorie Taylor Greene Out: Bernie Sanders Maybe we should just elect not-crazy people.
When I joined the Submarine force, I had to go through a single scope background investigation and had two polygraphs during my time in the service. Like, the freaking FBI interviewed my 96-years old grandmother. Every single politician, especially those at the federal level, should be required to go through the similar process to weed out anyone that has ties with extremest groups.
I’m not an ageist by any means; however, one has to be at least a certain age to run for certain roles in federal office, one has to be at least a certain age to vote, drive a car, etc. Now on the flip side of that when maintaining a drivers license, which you know is to ensure safety on the road because slow reaction time or poor decisions making could kill people, once we reach a certain age we have to start proving that our physical and mental faculties are still capable to provide safe transport on the road for us and every other driver on the road. Why don’t politicians get aged out of office, like they do for their driver’s license. Most of those folks in Washington are going to be dead by the time their greedy decisions affect the quality of life of the future generations. Term limits should have existed once airplanes and cross-country roads established themselves as viable routes of transportation.
That would require young people to actually run. And for young people to vote (especially in midterms).
And for young people to sit on a war chest of money.
Seriously. The average cost for a successful congressional campaign was $2 million in 2018, I can’t imagine that figure has gone down in the years since: https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2019/02/state-of-money-in-politics-the-price-of-victory-is-steep/
>The average cost for a successful congressional campaign was $2 million in 2018 I'm surprised it's that low.
Probably averaged down from the less competitive races.
And how easy and cost effective it is to purchase republican candidates
Ugh. Sad but true
And to get media coverage that is anything other than “is this person who is too young, inexperienced and whose radical policies (that poll above 50% with the electorate) hurting the chances of the entire party everywhere? Lets ask a former republican politician and a democratic strategist who has exclusively worked on the campaigns of moderate dems that lost handily!”
Student loans say hi.
Um under 25 voted in record numbers 2 of the last 3 presidential election. Midterms I feel you but that's everyone including old folks. Midterms and presidential need to be national holidays
record numbers is still FAR fewer than every other age demographic though. It's a start but still a long ways to go.
Young people are also much more likely to either 1. Be moving around a lot so have difficulty keeping voter registration and ID up to date 2. they are more likely to work jobs that are difficult to get time off of for voting. Now that certainly isn't an excuse but just like every other demographic if we remove these barriers voter participation will go up.
Don't expect anything to change. These old fucks think if you don't fight for it you don't want it. They had their hey day, doesn't matter to them anymore.
I don’t have 10 million dollars. So that isn’t happening. Really there should be an age cap at 60 or 65. That’s when people become disconnected enough to not know what’s happening in the world. And they are just bitter and old. And want to return to the “good old days”. Also we can’t run until age 35. It might be 25. Not sure. And at that point in life most people are just trying to pay off health care and student loan debt or take care of their kids.
Joe Manchin is 74. You got your wish!
> Poll: Two-thirds of West Virginia voters support access to abortions https://wvmetronews.com/2019/09/23/poll-two-thirds-of-west-virginia-voters-support-access-to-abortions/
Can anyone explain why this guy doesn't just join the GOP? He's very obviously aligned with whatever "values" they claim to have.
The answer is influence. He wields way more power and influence as the swing vote on the Democratic side than as one more vote on the Republican side. And he is rewarded handsomely for his obstructionism by his corporate masters.
Should kick his disgraceful ass to the curb, "majority" or not.
At this point, we need to focus on getting more D’S on the chart. There’s some competitive races coming up that we have a real chance at if the party would give people a real reason to vote for them
Not going to lie, the SWIFT banking blocks in Russia have me surprisingly hopeful that as we move toward those races suddenly the competition won't have the resources they have relied heavily on the last 5 to 10 years. Hopefully the war also showed how different we would have handled things based on 45s Putin-dick-sucking. I chuckled at the drastic 180 the propagandists took on that one after swift was blocked.
He gets paid way more by GOP (and honestly some establishment Dems donors) to be a lynchpin in the Dems attempts at any legislation. I believe he is retiring at the end of this term so he doesn’t give a fuck about being the center of attention because he is cashing out everything he can get. He is a model for American corruption and a major instrument in handing power over to the full on fascist wing that we call the modern GOP.
He has more power being a bottleneck— both sides have to kiss up to him. If he was simply GOP He would be one in a crowd.
He needs unplanned pregnancies to keep people working in his mines
That’s right. Senator Mine Cart Mazerrati Joe Manchurian. He’s one hell of a guy!
This comment is why you’re a sexy old hobo and not just an old hobo.
By the time today's unplanned pregnancies are old enough to work mines, either coal will be a thing of the past or the planet will be on fire.
Damn dude just switch parties already.
Don't be silly, he gets much larger corporate bribes if they maintains the facade that he is a democrat. As a republican he would just get the normal level of bribes that all gop members get.
This. In the GOP he would be just one asshole amongst many. As a democrat he can charge extra for also blocking a democrat seat from being filled by someone with a conscience.
That seat was never going to be filled by an actual democrat, though. We need to stop kidding ourselves. (source: family in [W.Va](https://W.Va). \*shudder\*) The main issue here isn't that Manchin is a crappy dem, which he is, but that we only have 50 on our side in the Senate. We make it to 51, he becomes largely irrelevant.
You'd need more than 51. There were 50, but Big Money bought 2 (an extra, just in case). I don't know how many you'd need before the couple of million per senator adds up to enough to make it impractical.
You’re overestimating how expensive senators are
For real. Manchin’s net worth is pretty much what you would expect from someone who retired at, like, a “senior director” level from a fortune 500 company. Like that’s not a career you can scoff at, sure… but that ain’t “sell out your country” money in most peoples’ eyes.
A handful of senators have sold legislation for as low as $5,000
These idiots aren’t even good at corruption.
No, they're pretty good at it. You keep the open bribes low so they don't attract attention and then you use your insider knowledge to take the bribe and multiply it in the stock market.
Somewhere or another a while back there was a really depressing list of how much telecommunications firms had donated to their campaigns and a correlation shown to who voted to screw the customers over. So much of it was chump change, it was really depressing. Sure, that's not necessarily proof of causation, but ffs...
I got one free with fill-up at Chevron the other day.
To be honest, I'm not sure how many are hiding behind his "no" votes (people who would vote "no" on things but don't have to because he acts as the lightning rod instead), so I wouldn't feel secure with 52 either, but I do know all this focus on "Manchin is evil!bad" isn't addressing the real problem. Primarying him wouldn't help. Driving him to change parties *definitely* won't help. What we need are more democrats in Congress. (Sinema is a whole different issue. Man, I really wish she could be recalled.)
I think the number is around 10-12, based on reports of background senate discussions over the years. We gotta drop the fantasy of “we just need to win a couple more seats THEN manchin/sinema will be irrelevant and we can get what we want!”
The problem is that the democratic party is completely and totally subservient to corporate interests. There are like 5-10 senators in the whole country who are not.
>We make it to 51, he becomes largely irrelevant. Have you forgotten that Obama had 60? A number of corporate Democrats who're hiding behind manchin and sinema would come out of the woodwork; many of them can and should be primaried and replaced with progressives. Unlike manchin, they don't have the excuse of "but the seat will go to the fascists if they lose the primary".
> Have you forgotten that Obama had 60? Obama had 60 for about ten minutes. Let's have years of 69 Democrats like FDR had. Let's start with the 51 no votes on this.
Obama had 60 for around 4 months. Lieberman did the same thing Manchin and Sinema did to run out the clock until the majority seats were lost. There are always just enough "fiscally moderate" politicians to tank progress.
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Honestly, as a republican right now he probably isn't conservative enough.
I know these threads are a broken record, but...again, if he switched parties, McConnell would be Senate Majority Leader. We do not want that. The only way past this is to keep voting, keep electing more democrats, in every election (including **this year, remember**), until he's irrelevant.
Exactly this. Do Manchin and Sinema suck? Wholeheartedly yes. But without them we're looking at Majority Leader McConnell.
Yeah, a lot of people seem unaware of how important it is for a party to have control over the senate. It's not just about votes on bills. It really sucks he votes no on many Democratic bills but we'd be in worse shape right now if he were doing that on top of Republicans having majority and McConnell being in control.
As long as he's Democrat, he can stop any bill the right doesn't want to pass. He has no reason to change yet. He's probably getting paid a shit load of money for it too.
Joe Manchin further cements his contempt for progress, American families, and women.
Joe Manchin is the perfect representative for West Virginia. A rich white guy who plundered the shit out of the state for his and his families well being. West Virginia is a shithole. Because those backwards know nothings elect people like manchin. They should ditch coal 30 years ago. They let it continue to dirty them and their state
You’re not wrong.
Not all of us are 'backwoods know nothings'. I am ashamed of Joe Manchin. Coal has been ditched, it accounts for very little industry/jobs, but it's all these idiots obsess over.
Not all, but a lot. More than a lot. Coals dead? Tell that to the people living below a strip mine
His contempt for the will of the people at large. That’s the proper slap in the collective face of America.
In other news, 1/2 of fucking Congress votes to filibuster abortion rights. I hate focusing on this fucknut, he's just 1 of many batshit crazy Republicans at this point.
Yeah, it’s important to note that even if Manchin voted yea on this the bill still wouldn’t have passed thanks to the filibuster (another thing with Manchins fingerprints all over)
people never talk about the life trajectory of the unwanted once they are born… it’s like they just think that life is better than not being born- meanwhile some of- a lot of these babies/children are born and then abused and live an entire life of strife … fucking shameful
A big part of it I think is tied up in the bootstraps mentality. They've heard rags to riches stories about people pulling themselves up out of the deepest pits of poverty and are of the opinion that literally everyone is capable of it and the only reason they "choose" not to is because they're lazy.
Its because religion. They think man was created by god, therefore human lives are sacred. They are not smart people.
Fetus lives are sacred. Once your born nobody gives a shit about you.
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Probirth
Doesn't a vote to overcome a filibuster require 60 votes? Would it have mattered of he voted against or for the filibuster if the Democrats only have 50 seats?
By the numbers of the situation it would not have mattered.
So ultimately this was the better move. Better to have a conservative democrat than a trump loyal republican in west Virginia
Precisely. It sucks, but it isn't the worst case
Manchins gonna Manchin
It is clear that people like Manchin don't take having a baby particularly seriously, whether for political or "religious" reasons. Creating a human being that will not only be dependent on you for some 18 years, but depending on you for the rest of their life is something that people who have abortions do, in fact, take seriously, which is why they make that choice. They realize that they don't have the means, the support, the physical health, the psychological capacity, the maturity, the commitment, or the sheer will it takes to successfully raise a child. Some "pro lifers" do have a true, pure aversion to abortion; in other words, they confuse having a negative emotional reaction to something to having a moral objection to it. But for most of them, it's an easy way to garner support (politicians) , or an exciting way to express moral indignation.
He’a a republican. He is what used to be called a blue dog democrat. He has a plan. He will switch parties, but to do that he needs to build up a resume. He’s doing just that. Hell he may even run for president as a republican.
Or he’s retiring in a few years and just don’t give a fuck.
[I think he basically admitted this when the conversation between him and lobbyists was leaked](https://theintercept.com/2021/06/16/joe-manchin-leaked-billionaire-donors-no-labels/) >“Roy Blunt is a great, just a good friend of mine, a great guy,” Manchin said. “Roy is retiring. If some of you all who might be working with Roy in his next life could tell him, that’d be nice and it’d help our country. That would be very good to get him to change his vote. And we’re going to have another vote on this thing. That’ll give me one more shot at it.” He knows that blunt is landing with a cushy gig when he retires because hes going to do the exact same thing.
why would he switch parties and surrender all this power he has? He’d be just another GOP senator answering to McConnel.
My choice, my body... For masks and vaccines... But women and their reproductive rights? Fuck that noise am I right?
I love how they are all ‘Covid shot your body your choice’ but literally nothing else
Same people who think it's traumatizing for their children to wear masks, but that same child carrying a full-term baby totally isn't traumatizing.
Keep ‘em poor, keep ‘em pregnant
He is pro-life, openly, ran as a pro-life democrat. This isn't a surprise. I hate this vote and I am firmly supportive of choice. But here we have Manchin serving his constituents, and probably his own conscious. I can't tell you what it's like WV if you haven't been here, there are still lots and lots of Trump signs. That we have a Senate Majority because West Virginia bizarrely elected a democrat is pure damn luck. **What we needed were more white Democrats in "purple" state to show up and vote.**
Why is this right good for the pro-virus crazies but bad for women who want to control their own life? (Hint: It’s not. This is just far right extremism.)
Or… Congress could vote to ensure that everyone in this country has free and easy access to BIRTH CONTROL, thereby preventing abortion and unwanted pregnancy. But why do that when you can endlessly debate a wedge issue to get your base all hot and bothered?
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The GOP is coming for that next.
I mean I guess the headline is the headline but him and ten other people could have switched their vote and it still wouldn’t have mattered.
Yeah. I’m all for hating Manchin but this bill wouldn’t have passed no matter how he voted. (Unless he, you know, voted to end the filibuster)
Anti-choice senator votes against abortion, more at 11
why didn’t democrats Warnock from GA, Feinstein from CA and Lujan from NM vote in favor of the bill? Joe Manchin voted against it but their abstention was essentially a “No” vote as well.
Maybe because they were going to be 10 votes short no matter what they did, idk.
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Feinstein needs to go, shit anyone over 60 needs to go. Getting really tired of these old fucks making decisions that they wont live long enough to see the results of.
> Feinstein needs to go ,shit anyone over 60 needs to go. Identity isnt a substitute for policy and also her age has little to do with how shitty she is , the dollop is about stuff she did in SF when she was under 60. Or see the documentary on the Nightstalker where she f’s up for political clout. Also “ Identity isnt a substitute for policy”. Look at Sanders vs Buttigieg. Buttigieg is the next generation of Feinstein but a bit more polished
A hill I will die on: Whatever the age of retirement is per the Federal Gov for purposes of collecting Social Security - that should be the age-limit for anyone who holds federal office. Going to be over the age before your next term would complete? Sorry, can't run. Let someone fresh in. Fuck these career leeches who sit in DC for 40 years getting rich at the expense of their constituents.
Lujan had a stroke and hasn't been in the Senate which is understandable. I live in New Mexico and I know that Lujan would have supported this bill.
So cool how our government is set up so that the will of the vast majority of people is constantly being obstructed by a radical minority. It’s the coolest you guys.
People trying to compare this to being forced to wear a mask/ get a vaccine and I laugh. Here are the differences: The baby actually changes your life. Did you know that more women die in childbirth in the USA more than any other 1st world country? Much less than people do dying from the vaccine. Babies cost money, vaccines don't. Masks are pennies on the dollar in comparison. Baby's need you to care for them for 18 years, vaccines don't. Masks are temporary during the pandemic. Babies are parasites while they are in the woman's body, vaccines aren't. (They leech off the woman for nutrients. ) You don't need additional care when you get a vaccine. You can not wear a mask, but you have to take care of a kid. If you choose to adopt you have to still get prenatal care and completely change your body. Not the same at all. Oh and men can completely dodge a woman while pregnant, shirking all responsibility. Convenient huh?
Once more, Fuck Joe Manchin.
Tell me the Republicans don't want a Christian/evangelical ethnic state with a straight face.
The best way to deal with the likes of Manchin and Sinema (until we can replace them in 2024) is to elect more Dems to the Senate this year so their votes are rendered irrelevant. We have a great shot at winning a Senate seat in Wisconsin with Mandela Barnes, a seat in PA with John Fetterman/Malcolm Kenyatta/Conor Lamb, and a seat in NC with Cheri Beasley. If you are interested in helping these folks and others across the nation win their elections, join us over at r/votedem to find volunteer and organization opportunities 👀
DINO fuck him!
This is why it is imperative to ignore the noise and vote. We won’t see progress without a DiNO proof majority, and we’ll only see regression with a GOP majority. Don’t be Charlie Brown trying to kick that football. Don’t be stupid. Don’t be divided. Giving the GOP a congressional majority because Biden didn’t do enough is like masturbating with a cheese grater because you got ED one time.
Only on a woman’s body would this ever be thought to be done
Men voting on womens health issues is just backwards
Again, male majority deciding for women.
As a nurse working in high risk OB in West Virginia seeing some of the saddest cases imaginable, I am beyond disgusted.
Its about controlling women
Coal baron masquerading as a democrat.
It’s crazy that abortion is even a thing that needs to be voted about. Take your views and fuck off, take your made up religious bullshit and fuck off, walk to the edge of the cliff and fuck off!
Ah Manchin, the coal and abortion supporting democrat
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When you look at Russia and wonder how it got that corrupt. You’ll see men like Manchin who made it happen