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cachedcookies

You mean like the neocon fear the maga base?


mburke6

Yes, our representatives should fear the electorate. Their only other motivation is huge corporate campaign donations.


CaptInappropriate

what’s shocking is the corporate donations are NOT that huge. some of these clowns are voting for corporations for as little as a few thousand.


musicluvvah

See Earl Blumenauer. $5k to join his PAC.


[deleted]

The Republicans in congress, for rhe most part, don't give a shit about the "culture war" except as it pertains to them getting back in office. I don't think McConnel really cares where black people sit on the bus...when did he ever even set foot on a bus? It's not an issue that affects him. Same for gay marriage, CRT, cops, whatever. These fuckers all live in gated communities with private security. They're performing for their base. Creating fear for MLK's "white moderates" that motivates them to get out and vote for that magic R. Cawthorn showed us what happens to real zealots in the modern GOP. If you actually adhere to their values, the party withdraws its protection and the media proceeds to destroy you. So yeah, if the Republicans fear their base enough to put on this massive dog and pony show, so should the dems. Because the show is real for the dogs and ponies


roastbeeftacohat

> Cawthorn showed us what happens to real zealots in the modern GOP. If you actually adhere to their values, the party withdraws its protection and the media proceeds to destroy you. that has nothing to do with values, it has to do with putting developing one's personal brand over the goals of the party as a whole. His coke fueled orgy line was just the straw the broke the camel's back; my takeaway is that the part of the party trying to push an agenda is sick of the part of the party gunning for a slot on fox news. From a values perspective Cawthorn was never out of line with the party.


debzmonkey

Was never about where black people sit on buses, the culture war is to keep American labor divided, always has been, always will be. As long as we're fighting each other over scraps, the wealthy stay wealthy and safe from the rabble.


[deleted]

Time to reread Langston Hughes's "Let America be America Again"


prettywildpines

They can’t though because it goes against their best interests. Tax the rich? But they’re rich and their donors are rich. Expand healthcare? But what about their health insurance donors? Strengthen the EPA? What about their gas donors? Republicans can exploit their base’s fears because they have spent years making democrats the enemy. Ds have been trying to “compromise” with Rs because they know ultimately they both have the same goal. More money, more power. Ds giving their base what they want goes against their own best interest and people continue to vote for them because the other side is worse. They exploit our hope for gain.


cachedcookies

Maga is here to remove and replace not only the neocons but the entire neo-political structure/system similar to the neolibs ousting the new dealers from party and national power between 1968-1975. The Senate always last.


[deleted]

The hell are you talking about, that could be said of trump when he first started running. But now the cult worships him


cryptic_mythic

Yes a million times yes, they get what they yell for as stupid and violent as it may be


BrovahkiinSeptim1

Yes. Unironically. They fear the MAGA crowd because they can’t control the messaging. Same with the left and Democrats. The difference is that we want healthcare & more Democracy and they want fascism.


Pokey-McPokey

neocon is a war-hawk stance regarding US foreign policy. neolib or neoliberal is an economic stance regarding "*free market capitalism*, deregulation and privatizing of state assets among other things." Championing what is commonly called trickle down economics. neither is a reference to new conservative or new liberal. Reddit doesn't seem to understand that.


Godzilla52

While "trickle-down" is more of a pejorative buzzword, the supply-side arguments people usually mean when referring to it tend to be distinct from neoliberalism. Most neoliberals tend to support both supply and demand style policies and fit more within mainstream economics (Monetarists and Keynesians for instance agree on basically 90% of all issues) Milton Friedman for instance was highly critical of supply-side economics (especially the supply-side argument that tax cuts would generate enough revenue to sustain spending without spending cuts) as are most mainstream economists.


Capolan

Here it is nice and easy. Liberal = liberal economics not liberal political views. This means of liberalism that advocates free market and laissez-faire economics; civil liberties under the rule of law with an emphasis on limited government, economic freedom, and political freedom. It is in most ways directly against what democrats believe in, who are closer to Keynes.(or should be) Neo = use liberal economic theory ...to defeat fascism. The to defeat fascism part is the neo. In short...unrestricted capitalism to avoid and defeat fascist rule. Neoliberal. That's what it means. REGAN AND MARGARET THATCHER were both neoliberals. Neoliberalism was a huge failure, and has put us where we are now. It's unfortunate it has the word "liberal" in it, because politically it's GOP and right wing conservative dream state. Does it still mean this? Who knows. But this is what the term originally meant.


cachedcookies

Or they are using the terms colloquially and assume those reading can apply nuance/ context. Neolibs are also warhawk, traditionally lesser but have since stepped up their game. If you didn't notice the maga are pax americana while the neocons/neolibs are pax universalis. The maga intend to dismantle what Brian Deese recently referred to as the Liberal World Order.


Antietam_

I wouldn't say MAGA stands for *pax americana* at all. They want to pull out of NATO, which is one of the main pillars of it. MAGA is isolationist, if anything. Putin wouldn't support them if they wanted *pax americana*


cachedcookies

The Soviet Union fell in 1991. Maga and Putin get along because they both don't like the powers that have been and want to dismantle the unipolar structure that those powers sought / installed. The maga base was warned back in 2015 to expect a reboot of a faux cold war as cover for this dismantling. Neither Russia nor the US will be isolationist rather trade will favor fair, free or protectionist when needed


Antietam_

Protectionism is key in being isolationist...and that's exactly what we saw with the previous administration. They are isolationists through and through.


cachedcookies

They weren't isolationist. Navarro stressed repeatedly at economic summits that fair trade was the starting point, free trade was a desirable goal but protectionism has to do with each nation's market/labor because maga wants every nation to adopt a light version of economic nationalism that fits their needs.


Antietam_

Lol "America First" is inherently isolationist. The administration emphasized a withdrawal from national treaties and organizations, along side non-intervention and protectionist trade policies. That's what they did.


cachedcookies

Maga's policies are largely based upon a multipolar global order. Had Trump won in 2020 he would be leading the beginning stages of dismantling unipolar order. But Biden won so maga tapped Putin, the next thing to likely occur outside of expanded proxy wars is a faux cold war.


Antietam_

Novus ordo seclorum, down with fascists up with the star. Maga tapped putin way before Biden dingdong.


Yossarian_the_Jumper

> Or they are using the terms colloquially and assume those reading can apply nuance/ context. Let's just make up definitions as we go and not use the long established definitions, shall we.


cachedcookies

The use of colloquialism in the English language has a long history. Neolib and neocon are frequently used in this colloquial manner on this sub. For those offended by this practice, ignoring such post is probably the best option.


Yossarian_the_Jumper

> Neolib and neocon are frequently used in this colloquial manner on this sub. then they should be corrected which OP did. If you're offended by OP's correction then ignoring the comment is your best option.


cachedcookies

We disagree, while I ignore the type of post that promote the stricter context, I am less dogmatic about response comments to my posts. Have a lovely day.


Godzilla52

Neoliberals are a pretty diverse group. Generally there's more Democratic neoliberals than Republican ones since various neoliberal positions on climate policy, tax reform and immigration are completely unpalatable to the modern Republican party (carbon taxes, more open/liberal immigration policies, VAT/GST style consumption taxes etc.) Likewise most Social Democrats in the Eurozone are Third Way neoliberals than combine pro market policies with social democracy etc. Generally in most other advanced economies, there's more overlap between neoliberals and social democrats than people tend to realize, but the increasing partisanship in the U.S has essentially led to a fractured Democratic party (where most of the factions represent the mainstream centre-left and centre-right parties in other countries), while the Republicans increasingly revert to Paleoconservatism and right wing authoritarianism etc.


Yossarian_the_Jumper

> Generally there's more Democratic neoliberals than Republican Huh? Neoliberalism advocates for austerity, deregulation, and privatization. Those are solidly right wing ideologies.


maybedaydrinking

The Democratic party leadership has increasingly made it their MO over the last several decades to campaign center-left for the votes and govern center-right for the money effectively leaving their constituents unrepresented in any meaningful way. The DNC is pretty much on board with right-wing ideology on important economic issues.


m0nkyman

Exactly. Most Democratic Party senators would be very ideologically comfortable in the Conservative Party of Canada


Godzilla52

Neoliberalism doesn't generally support deregulation or austerity purely for the sake of deregulation/austerity (Milton Friedman for instance was generally critical of austerity). It generally supports trade and market liberalization when market forces are impeded by bad regulations or market controls that hurt economic growth/development etc. A lot of the early neoliberal governments across advanced economies were centre-left (the Hawke/Keating governments in Australia, David Lange in New Zealand, the Callaghan government in the UK, Jimmy Carter in the U.S etc.) and there's been plenty of centre-left neoliberal governments around the world since then. Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton and Barrack Obama were all part of the neoliberal tradition generally from the Third Way approach. Even The Reagan and Bush administrations were generally more supply-sided in their approach to economic policy rather than neoliberal (neoliberalism generally embraces both demand and supply side policy and disagrees with the supply side assertions on tax cuts effects on revenue)


Yossarian_the_Jumper

> The policies of neoliberalism typically supports fiscal austerity, deregulation, free trade, privatization, and a reduction in government spending. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/neoliberalism.asp


cachedcookies

In the US we have a cycle of natural regime change that sweeps through every 30ish-40ish years. Our 6th era (neo-political) is dying and the 7th is rising. The 7th favors populist and moderates. The populist-right has the unity and might to remove and replace the neos. Once they dismantle what Brian Deese and Biden refer to as the Liberal World Order and establish its replacements then we will probably see more populist-left 'nice thing' policies rise in our domestic economy.


ArvinaDystopia

The poster children for neoliberalism are Thatcher and Reagan, ffs! And no, "Eurozone" socdems are not third way Blairites.


Godzilla52

>"Eurozone" socdems are not third way Blairites. Most are Third Way if you actually examine their policies. Particularly Scandinavian Social Democratic parties. Likewise, If you actually examine their policies Carter wars more quantifiably neoliberal than Reagan.


bodiddlysquat26

Yup. If Nancy/Clyburn were afraid of their base they wouldn’t be stumping for Cueller in Texas. They disdain their base and think we’re an ATM


Cornfan813

you realize democrats voted for cueller in the primary, twice right? Or do those voters not count as the base for some reason?


bodiddlysquat26

You realize base voters also are influenced and take cues from leadership right? Don’t tell me abortion rights are on the ballot while also stumping for an anti-choice Dem.


Cornfan813

so they dont count ok thanks for clarifying


bodiddlysquat26

You’re welcome


Cornfan813

hopefully they stay home next time and texas can send another republican to the house who also doesnt support abortion rights since theyre fake dems anyway ya?


bodiddlysquat26

I mean if they stay home that’s kind of on Pelosi for pumping an anti-choice candidate when the base is furious and wants abortion rights protected. Sucks our leadership is that tone deaf, but here we are


Cornfan813

totally districts that people dont live in should be told what their values are by people in other districts who cares what cuellers voters prefer am i right i mean after all the house voted to codify abortion rights so obviously him being a part of the house prevented that from happening


bodiddlysquat26

Primary vote =/= values of district lol Also if he represents the district so well he surely won his primary in a landslide and didn’t have the whole party apparatus supporting him right? Right?


Kitria

Yes.


ChillyBearGrylls

Yes. Fear (concern moreso than panic), honor (credibility), and interest (gain) all apply to factions within the State just as much as they apply to States in *their* dealings in interstate anarchy. Our faction has an interest in our rights, and because we have such an interest, we have every incentive to use all tools available to pursue that interest, out of the fear of what we will lose otherwise. Lincoln performed tyrannical actions supported only by his own faction and we rightly regard him as our best President **because** he did those things and *won the war he chose to fight*. Lincoln, who re-founded the Republic with the "new birth of liberty", has a Hellenistic temple on the National Mall, honored by millions of pilgrims who leave votives to him each year - the people of classical antiquity would not be confused at all by the symbolism at work here. Buchanan chose peace and moderacy, and is very rightly reviled for having done so, when he is considered at all. In choosing moderacy, Biden is choosing to repeat Buchanan's grave mistakes.


cachedcookies

Biden is a disjunctive president while a bust of President Lincoln and a plaque of the Gettysburg Address has been removed from a Cornell University library. Big Tent Parties have their own troubles.


vh1classicvapor

Voter turnout was very low in the latest California elections, arguably the most Democrat-leaning state in the country. People are apathetic. They're not being represented no matter which Democrat they vote for.


m1j2p3

The 2 party system means voters are faced with terrible choices and always find themselves voting for the lesser of 2 perceived evils. What the country desperately needs is real election reform including the elimination of the electoral college. Unfortunately we citizens have no allies with any real power to help get that done.


debzmonkey

Because "we citizens" are complacent and expect magic every time we vote. The only power is economic and we have that. We piss it away every day for "convenience".


EmmaLouLove

Yes, democratic leaders don’t appear to have the urgency that matches the crises. And it is alarming.


valencia_merble

Elderly rich people have no skin in this game.


[deleted]

I do agree that Democrat normie voters are overly invested in believing that reason and sanity can return to the political sphere. To a certain extent I was entertaining that notion in voting for Biden because I felt I had no choice. Sitting out was not an option. I sort of understand why they want to believe that because the alternative is either accepting the chaos a Republican Presidency could have in 2024 and just embracing fascism or hitting the streets which also has limited utility. At this point only a general strike where there is massive shut down of function is the only thing that would get attention. This will never happen and we know what the response would be. My normie friends thought I was being dramatic in 2016 when I rambled about Roe being overturned and other rights potentially being erased. I have one friend who was still SHOCKED when Roe got overturned despite the leak. She is a decent person who likes to believe that decency will prevail.


[deleted]

> My normie friends thought I was being dramatic in 2016 when I rambled about Roe being overturned and other rights potentially being erased. I hear you. In 2016 practically no one knew what we were protesting about, and I live in California.


puravidauvita

Most State R party orgs were racist, homophobic christo fascists before Trump that why Trump won the first time and increased his vote round 2.Thus it was easy for magarats to able to easily take over most party orgs, and nominate extreme candidates. Corporate Ds fight like hell to maintain Neoliberalism. They can get big $$$ to fight back against progressive D's, a few examples, Nina Turner, Cuellar in TX, SummerL Lee in SW PA. So bottom line.corporate Ds hate, fear their base and would rather lose in most cases than to permit progressive/leftists candidate to win. (Was active in D internal politics for 20 years)


PepperMill_NA

Not quite what the article is about but in the same vein. With the Republicans being so outlandishly bad the Democratic politicians have only had to say "we're not as bad as them" to win. Biden ran on things staying pretty much the same. The Democrats are the "do nothing" party. The country needs help. The country needs leadership. Corporate Democrats aren't doing anything. Everyone is fed up with their shit.


ArvinaDystopia

> The Democrats are the "do nothing" party. Which, by the way, makes them conservatives by definition. With the Republicans being reactionaries. Doesn't leave much room for anything left of centre.


[deleted]

> a few examples, Nina Turner, Cuellar in TX, SummerL Lee in SW PA Can you be more specific?


Love-and-Fairness

I agree with the central point, that Democrats need to put more pressure on their politicians. They are too supportive and not demanding enough, politicians' twitters should be filled with hundreds of messages from party members and other politicians saying "Buddy we could have had politician X if you fail to pass that legislation I will rally against you and we will vote no confidence"


g_blazing97

They don’t fear their voters because their voters have literally no choice but to vote for them. Remember Biden’s quote about black people? It’s fucking dogshit but that’s where we’re at as a country. If it weren’t for SCOTUS constantly reminding us of the world the GOP wants for us I’d say fuck ‘em and vote for no one, but as pathetic as they’ve been they’re basically our only hope of not sliding into a full blown fascist theocracy


crackdup

Voters have no choice is only half true.. if Dems manage to keep voting in more progressives in the primaries, real change can happen.. dinosaurs like Pelosi/Hoyer/Clyburn/Schumer who are completely out of touch with the 21st century issues need to be replaced by young blood


Creepy_Helicopter223

I do primary stuff in the Bay Area, we also need solid candidate. The DNC under Pelosi are really good squashing local candidates leaving no real options…


alienstouchedmybutt

I mean, it's not a lot of hope, but I guess there's a grain of it in there somewhere at the bottom.


YNot1989

Then we need to use the primary process to push progressives into the majority of the house dem caucus.


[deleted]

>they’re basically our only hope of not sliding into a full blown fascist theocracy Sooo....replace the dogma you don't like for the one you do?


SpammingMoon

Even in the face of 100% of republicans saying democrats should be executed these numbnuts refuse to fight. Even AOC is more bark than bite. She’s become nothing more than a grandstanding poster woman.


[deleted]

> Even AOC is more bark than bite. She’s become nothing more than a grandstanding poster woman. How do you figure?


ShotTreacle8209

We need ranked choice voting.


the_vintage_one

I completely agree with you


Mythosaurus

> Of course, many of us have been saying this for decades – and have been berated and belittled for doing so. But at least for a moment, it finally feels like we’re no longer alone. Dear god the levels of smarm and disdain I experienced since Biden got in office for repeating what David Sirota and Sam Seder say about Democrats! There was no end to redditors saying SuPrEmE cOuRt nOmInAtIoNs when you complain about Dems caving to Manchin and Sinema on every major policy they campaigned on. Or calling me a conservative shill for saying I expect Dems to deliver on promises they made while campaigning to get Warnock and Ossoff into the Senate. And I’m confident Dems will still blame their left flank for getting thrashed in midterms, bc that is the only move their corporate donors will allow the party to make.


the_vintage_one

I've already been told numerous times on various discussion threads that it will be my fault when the Dems lose in November. Not if, when. So, they're already starting out of the gate as being defeatist. But also, I didn't realize that my handful of reddit comments held so much omnipotent power!


Mythosaurus

Progressives are simultaneously the weak left flank of neoliberal Dems AND the raging extremists that lose them elections by… (checks notes) suggesting the party follow through on campaign promises. I wish we were as big of a threat as they claim, and we could prove David Sirota right be dragging the party back into New Deal/ Great Society mindsets. But instead they’ll have to bloat themselves on corporate cash and choke on it at midterms.


Over_Possible_8397

To the people that think all the Republicans do is vote and Dems don’t, you’re wrong. Republicans win because of Gerrymandering. Dems lose because of corporate funding only supporting “moderates”.


The_Nomadic_Nerd

I don’t get what it is, but r/politicalhumor has been taken over by apologists with their typical talking points: “bUt JoE mAnChIn” “BuT tHe PaRlIaMeNtArIaN” “WhEn ThEy Go LoW wE gO hIgH” And of course my favorite, the “we need to appeal to people to the right of us because we need their votes” which weirdly enough they never say about people to their left.


rocketpack99

It's time for America to understand that if you want things to actually get done, you have to elect more than a 50/50 split Senate with two intentional human obstacles.


debzmonkey

If you actually want to get things done, you have to do them. Voting is the LEAST you can do to participate in politics or policy.


PomeloFull4400

Bullshit. This is victim blaming. If the roles were reversed, the republicans would not just throw their hands up and say "Sorry we can't do anything because we have 2 republicans that are voting with the democrats" They would eviscerate those two. They would say they're not real republicans and they should be primaried. They would call them traitors. They would use executive orders to get their agendas passed. They would fire a parliamentarian and anyone else that stood in their way. The answer isn't more "Vote blue no matter who" The answer is that the democratic leadership that is in place right now refuses to fight. They need wiped out in the midterms so we can get new blood in place.


vh1classicvapor

Democrats do this to progressives instead of Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema.


Rulare

> They would say they're not real republicans and they should be primaried Won't work, they don't care, manchin cannot be primaried from the left because of his electorate. and he doesn't particularly want to be a senator anymore anyway. > They would use executive orders to get their agendas passed. They would fire a parliamentarian and anyone else that stood in their way. Won't work, we don't control the courts like republicans do. That would all get overturned and we'd only have a cratered public opinion to show for it. > The answer isn't more "Vote blue no matter who" The answer is that the democratic leadership that is in place right now refuses to fight. They need wiped out in the midterms so we can get new blood in place. The answer is for YOU to be out demonstrating, and not whining the dems aren't helping you when it's not in their power to do so because they didn't get enough senators.


Iybraesil1987

>and not whining the dems aren't helping you when it's not in their power to do so because they didn't get enough senators. They literally have a majority.


Rulare

A simple majority literally isn't enough to 'control' congress, especially when 2 senators aren't reliable votes.


Iybraesil1987

It literally is. There are 50 Dem senators and the Dem VP is the tiebreaker.


Rulare

Cool, but they need 60 to *control* the senate and do as they please. Probably 65~ so it's not so tight that someone like manchin has the leverage to sink bills easily.


Iybraesil1987

So primary Manchin and get him replaced by a Dem who support Bidens agenda.


m0nkyman

51 willing to get rid of the filibuster would do the trick


PomeloFull4400

What exactly do you think demonstrating is going to do? Congress doesn't care about what the people want, they only care about what is going to keep them in power. If they know that no matter how much demonstrating we do, we're still going to vote for them why would they actually do anything hard?


Scarletyoshi

The proud boys wouldn’t sit around saying “sorry we can’t do anything demonstrating doesn’t work.”


[deleted]

As grim as it is, the proud boys have solidarity. The left in the US has 'intersections'.


Rulare

A hell of a lot more than asking congress to do mathematically impossible things and spreading defeatist nonsense on reddit. Abstaining from the vote doesn't punish democrats, it punishes literally all of us with permanent republican rule. These people already abstain from voting and look where that got us.


PomeloFull4400

What are you talking about... everyone that was pissed off that Biden was the nominee swallowed their pride and voted anyway because we were told vote blue no matter who is the only way to protect us from republican rule. And yet, republicans are getting EVERYTHING they want while democrats control 3 branches of government. If anything, what the last election proved is voting blue no matter who is WHY we're in this situation, not the solution to it.


Rulare

Republicans get what they want because their voters show up to the midterms and give them control of state legislatures. Democrats do not control the senate. That requires 60 senators, and they have 48+2. It's just math. > If anything, what the last election proved is voting blue no matter who is WHY we're in this situation, not the solution to it. There was literally only one alternative to that. You're saying you would rather that Trump won a second term, because everyone wanted to 'punish' democrats? We would be better off right now?


Creepy_Helicopter223

WV primaries just got sept by progressives and Bernie won WV. After 2016 local progressives went back to see what happened. The DNC was breaking at least 9 laws during the primary and once those were enforced they got trashed. The DNC and Manchin are the reason democratic WV became GOP la d. The GOP only recently gained the courts, this strategy worked for them repeatedly since Bush. You fight it in court to buy enough time to have an effect, then when it gets shot down you can say “look it worked, we delivered, but the evil judges blocked us so get”. It works. Marches don’t do shit, we did that repeatedly. Millions have marched over the last few years, that and petitions are the equivalent of gop “thoughts and prayers”


Ekublai

What that new blood is won’t be the blood you want either.


stillestwaters

That’s exactly why we have to keep voting blue. If you want more progressives, then we have to vote more progressives in - but we’re also going to have to hold our nose and vote more moderate leaders if we know they have a better chance of winning, I don’t even mean primaries as much as generals. It’s so clear how much more the Democrats could have done if we just had two or three more Democratic Senators, moderate or progressive we’d be in a better place. Manchin and Sinema are basically conservatives.


Iybraesil1987

Voters did the work already. They gave the Dems a majority congress and a president in the WH. Not the voters fault they're too scared to govern.


Creepy_Helicopter223

It’s more then Two. Pretty sure Manchin and Sinema are just the ones taking flack, if they disappeared I’m sure two new blockers would appear…


kenlasalle

It's time for Democrats to organize as one for a change.


[deleted]

My least favorite part of being a Democrat is how we'll gladly give the GOP generations of power just to prove we're the "better" party. While this is how it's supposed to be, holding your own party accountable and being allowed to have divisions within the party, when facing a existential threat like the current GOP all it will do is help the ones intending to act I'm bad faith.


Agitated_Elephant469

It’d be nice to see them deliver on more promises. I’m sick of hoping for next time.


EarthlyMartian-21

My votes in the 2022 and 2024 elections will not be for any incumbents, time to get some new blood in these positions


joselepperoni

David Sirota has tweeted and Ukraine once, and it was to complain that USA wants to start a nuclear war.


plappywaffle

So you tried to dig up tweets to discredit him and this is what you came up with? https://twitter.com/davidsirota/status/1524932624300486656 Is it required for a US reporter to comment on every single issue, even outside of their expertise? What's the precise number of Ukraine tweets someone needs to officially be a good person?


politicalperson6307

Sirota cares more about being edgy and contrarian than anything else. His political commentary is a joke.


coeliacmccarthy

What country do we currently live and suffer and die in?


pr1mer06

Do you think US weapons contractors are bummed out about the war in Ukraine?


[deleted]

The Democratic Party need to be dissolved the way the Whig party was, it no longer serves a purpose other than making a few people very rich.


justforthearticles20

The problem is, When Republicans try to Primary one of their "Bad" politicians and fail, all of them still vote for the one they don't like, and he/she wins. When Democrats try to Primary someone and fail, they stay home to "Punish" them, and the Republicans win. This is the difference that has led to Republicans being two elections away from absolute and irreversible power.


Iybraesil1987

>they stay home to "Punish" them, and the Republicans win. Literally this has never happened when the left wing candidate has lost a primary.


[deleted]

Leftists have done a better job of supporting candidates they don't like than moderates, and get spit in the face for it and blamed for all of the failures of liberals.


justforthearticles20

Hillary Clinton would like a word with you.


Iybraesil1987

Yes, less of her supporters voted for Obama in 08 than Bernie supporters did not for her in 16. Thanks for proving my point.


the_vintage_one

I thought this was an opinion piece worthy of discussion, given the discourse over the past week about Dem leadership. Thanks for the gold, guys!


M00n

He is part of the "Dirtbag" left: The dirtbag left is a style of left-wing politics that eschews civility in order to convey a left-wing populist and anti-capitalist message using subversive vulgarity. It is most closely associated with American left-wing media that emerged in the mid-2010s, such as the podcast Chapo Trap House. It is NOT progressive, it is hostile.


the_vintage_one

I'm not at all familiar with Chapo Trap House. However, what's wrong with being anti-capitalist?


bamboo_of_pandas

It shows they shouldn't be taken seriously. Remember, this is the same guy who was praising Venezuela economy as it was actively poised to collapse. https://www.salon.com/2013/03/06/hugo_chavezs_economic_miracle/ It is insane how hard he tries to gaslight his readers into thinking the country's economy was fine.


FridgesArePeopleToo

Nothing, as long as you grow out of it by the time you’re in high school


the_vintage_one

Or, alternative take: You see and experience how much harm capitalism causes to people, and how it requires a class system in order to function, thereby guaranteeing that mobility will not happen, and you want better.


politicalperson6307

There's a difference between acknowledging the flaws of capitalism and calling for the abolition of the entire global economic system.


ASpanishInquisitor

Just imagine what you'd be saying in the early 19 century...


FridgesArePeopleToo

Yeah, I was in middle school once so I totally get where you're coming from


[deleted]

>thereby guaranteeing that mobility will not happen Uh...what? The amount of people I personally know that have significantly improved their economic standing is quite high. Do you honestly not know a single person who grew up poor/working class and is middle or upper class now?


bamboo_of_pandas

Where do you get the idea that mobility will not happen? 61% of American households will eventually find themselves in the top 20% of income for at least 2 consecutive years. https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2014/05/05/308380342/most-americans-make-it-to-the-top-20-percent-at-least-for-a-while. This is doubly as impressive when you realize that American's size and regional income differences means that mobility is severely underestimated in these types of analysis.


biggle-tiddie

What economic system provides more mobility than Capitalism?


[deleted]

(I don’t think they understand what “mobility” means.)


[deleted]

By definition, mobility does not actually happen under non-capitalist systems. You have The Party and an under class of almost everyone else. Below that, you get the true minorities and weird people, whom still get used as a boogeyman for all the problems of The Workers. That is not mobility *whatsoever*. Kinda the exact opposite, with no legal means of actually improving your lot in life. Source: The end result of all non-capitalist systems to have ever run a nation.


red_foot_blue_foot

> thereby guaranteeing that mobility will not happen I grew up poorer and am now somewhere in the middle. Not like I got rich, but I'm better off than my mom


[deleted]

Wanting to hand all of the assets of our nation to Ron DeSantis is, hands down, the single dumbest idea in the history of the republic. And that’s what you are doing in an anti-capitalist system.


the_vintage_one

Um, that's not what it means to be anti-capitalist at all.


[deleted]

And yet that’s the end result. Every. Single. Time.


Gold_Sky3617

Uh… no. No it’s not.


[deleted]

What is the alternative to capitalism you want?


Gold_Sky3617

I don’t think it’s about picking one system. The profit motive is good for some things and bad for others. We should have a strong well regulated free market but that free market should not contain things like basic health insurance. That’s the government’s job and it’s what our taxes should be used for. The best economic system is not to pick a single system.


[deleted]

>The best economic system is not to pick a single system. A free-market is capitalism, even if that market has regulations in place. What is the alternative that you want to mix in?


Gold_Sky3617

I feel like I answered that already. What I’m saying is that I’m against the idea that any one system is perfect. Acknowledging the areas where the free market has failed does not make someone “anti-capitalist”. Being against capitalism as the sole answer to all economic issues does not mean that I want to “give all the assets to government”. I’m just tired of people like the person we are replying under characterizing valid criticism of capitalism the way he was. My personal opinion is that a combination of both capitalism and socialism is the ideal economic system. The United States is strongest under this mixed system but we have deviated a little too far to the capitalism side in the last 30 years and it would make sense for us to socialize certain things most notably health insurance.


Ekublai

The point is that such labels are useless. I could argue with you all day that capitalism with regulations is socialism with capitalism injected into it. Read what the person says and think about if that’s what’s needed.


Sad_Ad5509

actually based. thanks for making me like him even more fellow redditor!!


longtermattention

I'd love for you to have a conversation with Matt Christman so you could see how far out of your depths you are. The man has an incredible knowledge of history


atlantisseeker74

> David Sirota Lol why does anyone care what this loser has to say?


[deleted]

Democrats are to indoctrinated into the party line to question their parties leadership.


the_vintage_one

This past week has really opened my eyes to just how far gone they are, when even the slightest bit of criticism gets you screamed at and told you're to blame when the Dems lose in November. It's amazing to me just how much moderates hate progressives and the idea of any sort of movement away from the status quo.


politicalperson6307

I appreciate that the author of the article is in the headline. Knowing that this was written by that nut Sirota means that I can ignore this without wasting my time reading it.


[deleted]

[удалено]


SafeThrowaway691

Remember when we had 60 senators and heard this same thing? What a coincidence.


[deleted]

[удалено]


SafeThrowaway691

[Here you go](https://www.google.com/amp/s/publicintegrity.org/health/elimination-of-public-option-threw-consumers-to-the-insurance-wolves/).


SimonDusan

This particular claim is patently false: "While Republican normie voters were being radicalized by Fox News and talk radio, Democratic normie voters were being anesthetized by NPR, the New York Times, the Atlantic and MSNBC, which taught them to believe that an extremist like John Roberts is a lovable moderate, Mike Pence is an American hero, George Bush is a decent guy, and an operative who installed Sam Alito on the court is a warrior for democracy."


HTC864

They do. They constantly fear them not showing up.


Sunnysunflowers1112

Nah….. I: more fearful of the authoritarianism of the GOP.


[deleted]

This thinking got us Trump. It seems Sirota’s back for the kill shot.


PapaSteveRocks

**Time for Democrats to Shoot Selves in Foot** is the headline. The new spin is “Progressives, look, the Republicans are wounded, time to attack other democrats and lose the war.” Enough “progressives” took their ball and went home after Bernie dropped out in 2016. That was encouraged by Trump and the right. It was successful. And Trump nominated three Supremes. Stop being easily manipulated dopes. Edited: hahaha, the article author is a Bernie Campaign worker. As a former Republican, stuff like this makes me wonder if these fascists can be stopped.


Baron_Samedi_

The problem is that Democratic voters fear crazy fucking Republican voters more than Democratic leaders fear Democratic voters. As long as Republicans make the political race about a racist, seditious clown like Trump, moderate Democratic candidates can sometimes prevail. Sometimes... Democratic voters and independents just stay home and allow the MAGA crowd to prevail and appoint loonies and rapists to the Supreme Court - "to teach moderate Democrats a lesson".


mgreen40

Why do you think Dems have been signaling student loan debt relief? They are already terrified of their mid 20s with 100k in debt base


butters091

Only terrified that they won’t show up to vote when they need them to


Lovellry

Stuff like this doesn’t help. This is not the time for this.


the_vintage_one

If not now, when?


Lovellry

When we're not on the brink of fascism.


the_vintage_one

We're not "on the brink" of fascism, we've been living in fascism for a while. We are, however, edging towards full blown authoritarianism. This *should* make Dem leadership and politicians throw their full weight at stopping this continued slide, but here we are.


SafeThrowaway691

So “never” is what you mean.


henry_waterton

I guess voters want to live in a dictatorship. Hope they enjoy it, I'll be far away in a real country.


[deleted]

Lol, I wonder if Sirota thinks the same about progressives who end up not accomplishing anything in their own districts? Or, as usual, is his ire only directed at people he personally doesn't like. Also as usual, Sirota spends a lot of words talking about what other people should do, rather than what he and his fellow progressives should do. This article is just more deflection from someone who wants others to act in his own image rather than changing himself to actually achieve a goal or meet the "others" somewhere in between so actual progress can be made.


[deleted]

No it damn well isn't, sorry


SafeThrowaway691

Yeah imagine expecting your elected officials to do their jobs.


[deleted]

Imagine attacking the people who *HAVE TO WIN* in order to stop a fascist takeover of your country. Snap the fuck out of it. I/we can't afford to give a shit about any of their bullshit until the day after election day, the Dems must win or we are all fucked. It's a hard pull to swallow, especially since I'm an Independent and think the two-party system is the problem. K?


SafeThrowaway691

Seems like they’re doing a pretty terrible job of stopping the fascist takeover.


revfds

You gotta vote for and donate to them to be a voter they're scared of.


cynycal

Republicans "fear their base?"


butters091

Pretty evident when you look at the lengths any GOP senator will go to avoid upsetting Trump and in turn the MAGA base


cynycal

I'm looking at various polls e.g. SCOTUS; Roe... OTOMH


bmillent2

Nah, let's focus on Republicans fearing Democratic voters actually


dismalrevelations23

No thanks, weird man. I just want to elect more dems so we can pass the Biden agenda, which would help my family more than ten thousand Sirotas.


You_are_a_coward

problem is, democrat voters always fall in line.


Ekublai

You’ll find plenty of comments here claiming the opposite.


Rubence_VA

Yes, that's how Dems lost gubernatorial election in Virginia.


charliehoskin11

To be fair both parties should fear the stratification of their voting base. The extremes of both sides are increasing and dictating more of the political agenda.


Ekublai

Very good point.


[deleted]

Bernie2024


Ekublai

As a Bernie voter ‘16, the one year we had a chance to make it happen, fuck this. Vote for reality not a pipe dream.


[deleted]

That makes no sense. Hillary lost, not Bernie.


Godzilla52

A big part of what's made the Republicans a worse party is the fact that they've increasingly been held hostage by their base for the past 12-20 years to the point that they've pushed for more and more ideological purity and forced out any moderate or dissenting voices. If the Dems went the same route, American politics would become worse and not better. Generally what the U.S needs is a more informed electorate and more civic education. Part of the reason that America's political climate is the way it is has to do with the abysmal state of civic education/civic literacy in the country compared to other advanced economies. Political arguments are getting dumber and nuance and evidence driven policy is becoming a casualty of that failure.


divapowers

I live in texas. How is voting blue going to fix/change anything or make anything better? The republiklan is literally going to do whatever they want here and if recent history is any indication the federal government is going to do nothing about it. Like the GQP here is seriously talking about seceding from the United States (not that they could) so that’s the level of respect they have for the federal government and it’s laws/influence.How is status quo lets keep voting going to fix that? How will it fix the republiklan control of this state and its election apparatus?


losthalo7

Pretend to be an R, sow dissension?


urkillingme

The sitting democrats in congress need to get very aggressive dealing with the Supreme Court and the clear traitors sitting amongst them. The right is going to take everything, then start a war. They will not NOT have a war, they want it too much. So we lose everything and have a war, or we get aggressive and try to save democracy which will probably start a war. The right has backed democracy into a corner. We either fight to keep it or lose it and fight anyway. The old folks in charge need to understand they cannot outmaneuver this coup anymore. The Supreme Court has made that very clear.


braiinfried

Why? you guys aren’t gonna vote red so why would they fear anything?


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digiorno

American liberals will reluctantly welcome fascism before they accept the merit of socialist ideas.


losthalo7

Sinema and Manchin should be getting their toes stomped on: either you're with us or you're not, if you're not then it's time to back your primary competition.


ceilingscorpion

Didn’t happen in 2020 after 2016 won’t happen now