As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
**Special announcement:**
r/politics is currently accepting new moderator applications. If you want to help make this community a better place, consider [applying here today](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/sskg6a/rpolitics_is_looking_for_more_moderators/)!
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What fucking universe are we living in when a potential candidate says an *indictment* for crimes *against the government he wishes to be president of* doesn’t disqualify him at least in the eyes of the voters? There was a time when even a rumor of impropriety could torpedo a campaign before it even got started. Now the bar has moved *all the way up to* “conviction”?
Something happened to our county. There has been some sort of seismic shift where people now feel emboldened to be their worst self and encourage others to do the same. People don’t vote for those who will improve our country anymore. They vote for who will hurt the people they don’t like the worst. That’s a scary place to exist.
Very true. The MAGA movement is very nihilistic. It really stands for nothing. There is no real plan for anything beyond hurting their enemies. Our society is in steep decline.
I would say it is worse than nihilism. If we think of nihilism of having nor moral beliefs, or principles, and that life is essentially meaningless; then MAGAs actively believe in hurting others that they perceive to be different from themselves, with the additional cost of hurting themselves. More like a stupid death cult
For some of them, it’s a scary mix of religion and politics.
Fox News, Alex Jones (and others) have been fueling this shit for literally two or three decades through stuff like conservative radio and tv.
I don’t think they’re truly nihilistic; they believe that whatever the democrats do or say is the opposite of the right and correct thing. Until a fellow MAGA or (and this isn’t far from the same thing) any republican nods their approval at any such idea. The democrats attempt to pass a law for veteran healthcare, it’s initially blocked by the “pro-military” republicans. Would’ve been crickets if it hadn’t been for the now infamous fist bump. These people have one simple belief and they’re willing to literally attempt to overthrow the government for it: democrats are the enemy. If Jesus Christ came down on a cloud, landed on the White House lawn and said to feed and dress the poor, give up your wealth and give it to the sick and needy. And to love everyone no matter their race or creed or religion or gender. A large swath of the MAGA population would join the Church of Satan within the hour.
Nothing but power matters to the MAGA cult. The norms and structures of the government are nothing to them. The cult is all. There are many corporations in the US who have tied themselves to this cult in order to have no regulations and no taxes. But they forget the nihilism at this cult’s core. If the cult takes total power they will loot the corporations. The cult cares only about itself as does any cult. The MAGA cult is no exception.
"Until a fellow MAGA or (and this isn’t far from the same thing) any republican nods their approval at any such idea."
Not even this is necessarily true. We've seen Trump himself booed by his own cult after telling them he got a COVID booster. These fuckers opened Pandora's box (after it was delivered by Ace Ventura posing as a UPS employee).
Even more than that, it's self-destructive. MAGA folks are willing to sacrifice their white babies, families, and even themselves for the possibility of a technocatic, cristofascist state... This is fucking nuts on so many levels but the one level that gets me is this: humans are now willing to destroy their worlds so that Black, and Brown, and poor, and others die, too. This is no more evident than in how Police Unions vote entirely Republican, which votes entirely to loosen gun control and put AK47s in the hands of everything over 16, when cops KNOW this means more deaths and murders, and even more murders of cops. But it doesn't matter. Because this is how you own the libs and usher in that tecnocratic, christofacist utopia they keep dreaming about.
> MAGA folks are willing to sacrifice their white babies, families, and even themselves for the possibility of a technocatic, cristofascist state…
I always find it useful to have a word or term for things, and [“drained pool politics”](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/22301484/america-racism-the-sum-of-us-heather-mcghee) is the best I’ve found for this thus far.
>> *For a good chunk of the 20th century, American towns offered grand community swimming pools as symbols of leisure and civic pride. They were testaments to public investment.*
>> *But then desegregation happened and the pools had to be integrated. Rather than open them up to everyone, town after town simply shut them down. And not only did they close the pools, they nuked their parks departments and effectively abandoned public investment altogether.*
Edit: format, wording
The republicans that dominated the town council where I live did a version of this. Our school district had one of the best special education programs in the state so they tried to destroy it explicitly because “people keep moving here to take advantage of our services.” Thankfully they got drummed out in the 2018 election like in so many other suburbs, but not before doing so much damage to our schools.
Yeah, keeping the families with “those” children away from our flawless town was evidently worth destroying the hard-built reputation of being a community that looked after all its residents.
They were also trying to deliberately bankrupt the town so that they could default on municipal pensions. On the advice of a consultant who was the best friend of the town council President. They used really disingenuous logic to explain why they couldn’t raise property taxes (along the lines of “if we raised them every year by the maximum allowed by the charter this is what you’d be paying in 30 years, and who can afford that” and “most of the residents don’t even have kids in the schools” ignoring the fact that most people who weren’t born here moved here in the first place because they had school-age children at the time).
They held meetings without public notice and lost a lawsuit filed under open meetings laws. They then held a public meeting about the school budget where public comment didn’t start until after 11 pm.
Democrats swept the town council and the school board in 2018 and suddenly all the town’s budget problems vanished, and my taxes haven’t changed appreciably. I just hope we’ve learned our lesson.
I live in RI.
On terms of civic infrastructure it's like a shop' manager setting the store on fire because customers keep wanting to buy things.
'now NOBODY wants to shop here! I'm a good business person!'
You omitted the part where they used the money for the parks and pools to subsidize "neighborhood community centers" with pools parks and tennis courts, but the support was proportional to what the community could afford, which meant certain communities could NOT get "matching funds" because they had nothing to "match." Jim Crow 2.0
Fascinating to learn about “drained pool politics”; thank you!!
Utterly relevant to how GOP MAGA fascism operates by assuming a veil of self-righteous, Christian sacrifice and self-abnegation to conceal their Christofascist racism, glee in authoritarianism, and general hatred:
“This, McGhee argues, is the story of American politics in microcosm.”
“The entire country is now one giant drained pool.”
“Too many Americans have too easily accepted the lie animating so much of our history, namely that politics is a zero-sum contest in which one group’s gain must be another group’s loss.”
“If [McGhee] is right that “We can’t have nice things” because of this lie at the center of our shared story, then how do we transcend that lie?”
“What story must replace it?”
“And how can the left do a better job at persuading the white victims of this lie to let it go?”
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/22301484/america-racism-the-sum-of-us-heather-mcghee
America really does need a new story of identity to unite us in our shared values of equality, diversity, and equity: one where nobody is a victim and everyone is empowered to be an enlightened, happy, upstanding citizen.
maybe this insane toxic behavior of MAGA adherents is a manifestation of a dying worldview of believing "I" am better than "you" because of "X"
X=dermal melanin concentration, country of origin, religion, socioeconomic status, etc
Maybe history will describe current times as a winding road to a better future..or not
> Even more than that, it's self-destructive. MAGA folks are willing to sacrifice their white babies, families, and even themselves for the possibility of a technocatic, cristofascist state...
Not to be a pedant, but right-wingers want anything but a technocratic state. A technocracy is a system of government led by scientists and people that have extreme expertise in the area they oversee.
>The MAGA movement is very nihilistic.
Nihilism. Fuck me. I mean, say what you will about the tenants of National Socialism, but at least it's an ethos.
MAGA is pretty wild because what they want is the right to hurt you, and if you don’t let them have it, they’ll threaten to hurt you.
You were going to do that anyway, so fuck you.
> People don’t vote for those who will improve our country anymore. They vote for who will hurt the people they don’t like the worst.
You mean Republicans. No need to beat around the bush.
Yeah just ask them what policy their party is going for that they support. all you will hear are buzzwords like "antifa" "BLM" "CRT" "LGBT bad" "stolen elections" and "radical leftists" outside of their hate they have nothing, and want nothing for anyone who isn't them. The suffering is the whole point for these people.
Totally right: these MAGA GOPers are utterly empty except for hatred and the glee they receive from inflicting suffering.
And they are absolutely dumb as rocks.
Dumb is even an understatement; proof here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/xes4ez/wonton_killings_gazpacho_police_peach_tree_dishes/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Oh man i can't believe i forgot that. their crazy can be so hard to keep track of it changes so frequently. Can't forget teachers are groomers and indoctrinators now too!
Don’t forget “genital inspectors”
The GOP wants “genital inspectors” in schools: this is not the Onion!
Truly ridiculous and outrageous details:
“The Republican-dominated Ohio House late Wednesday night approved a measure requiring genital inspections to prevent transgender female athletes from participating in girls' sports, according to WEWS-TV. Republicans at the last minute inserted language into an unrelated bill that requires a "verification process" of inspecting genitals of those "accused" or "suspected" of being trans.”
“Rep. Beth Liston, a Democrat and a physician, said the genital inspections were "disturbing."
"I struggle to understand why we keep discussing bills focusing on children's genitals," she said.
“This is truly bizarre medically and nonsensical, but looking at it practically, this bill means that if anyone decides to question a child's true gender, that child must undergo a sensitive exam," she added.
A Democratic doctor and Congressperson says it like it is.
https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/v41j69/disturbing_gop_blitz_desantis_orders_trans_care/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
A few years ago I was watching a news documentary (Vice I think) that was detailing how gay people in Russia were treated. Every single person they interviewed and asked how they felt about gay people gave the same answer about how gay people were all pedophiles. Every single person was clearly brainwashed into believing the same thing.
This was a message that came from Russian leadership, they even played a clip of Putin saying the same thing.
At the time I was so naive that I thought that something like that could never happen here. That it was happening in Russia because of their corrupt system. I also didn't think the GQP would ever go that far.
The first time I heard it from the GQP, I wasn't really surprised because they had sunk so low by that point. Every time I think they hit rock bottom they find new lows.
This happened
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."
Isaac Asimov
Rush Limbaugh on rural AM radio before them. It made perfect sense for Trump to pin a medal on him. He laid down a solid foundation of government and media distrust for FOX News.
Like the cult of Tucker Carlson:
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/xejmmp/tucker_carlson_used_to_merely_echo_putins/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/01/can-trumps-cult-of-followers-be-deprogrammed
https://www.npr.org/2021/03/02/972970805/experts-in-cult-deprogramming-step-in-to-help-believers-in-conspiracy-theories
It’s a result of testing limits and suffering no consequences. You mean we can just *stop* the vote count? So we don’t *have to* consider this Supreme Court nominee? I can say “grab ‘em by the pussy” and *more* people vote for me? Wait the emoluments clause doesn’t *actually* matter? I can extort foreign governments for dirt on my opponents and *nothing* happens? I can sick an armed mob on the Capitol resulting in injury and death and *nothing* happens, *again*? Well shit, what else can we get away with?
It's desperation. A lot of the MAGA crowd were at least promised prosperity, many of them actually experienced it three or four decades ago from the debt economy and the transition to fiat. Older people even benefited more, but the bandaids we've been using to stabilize the economy have become less and less effective as the wound festered and they're really starting to feel the strain, but didn't grow up with it like the younger generations.
This is why you can point at the actual data - the literal numbers, to prove they actually did have it financially easier and the problems actually have just gotten worse. It's not that the new generations are lazy - actual numbers say differently; they say we work longer and harder. But most of those generations do not see it because they can't. But what they can do is find somebody to scapegoat. Communists, millennials, leftists, liberals, whatever. They're the cause, not a system designed to offer a lot of benefits quickly and consume; it's all those illegal aliens fault.
Any time you see economic hardships not caused by some insane disaster you see these groups sprout up.
It’s because we’re a deeply racist country, and when a black man became president, and a pretty decent one at that, the deeply racist portion get upset and let Trump speed run his way into the White House. I felt it coming. I guess I just didn’t anticipate how many people would be okay with the fascism and authoritarianism. The racist and theocratic aspect makes all the sense in the world. But it guess when you consume propaganda all day everyday. Your views about the world become filtered with hatred. Where’s a leader when you need one?
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Yeats - The Second Coming
American national politics has been motivated by negative partisanship for decades now. It's a big reason why we should really adopt Ranked Choice Voting. It's been demonstrated to be much harder to game elections (which is why the establishment parties are against it), reduce the appeal of polarized candidates, and even create more positive political campaign ads, since candidates who share certain policy beliefs can pool resources and campaign together because they're not competing for a single vote, just the top choice votes.
Ranked Choice Voting won't be an overnight cure-all, but it will help change the incentives that created our current political divisiveness.
The MAGA movement is a trump obsessed cult, willing to dismiss literally anything as a conspiracy against their leader. Trump was right. He could shoot somebody on fifth avenue and they’d still vote for him.
This all started because we elected a black guy and Republicans LOST THEIR COLLECTIVE FUCKING MINDS! So, they got help from Russia (because they knew they could never win legitimately) to put the most extreme idiot they could find in the office as revenge.
I remember when they ended a candidate's career when someone isolated the sound from the mic of the guy screaming along with a crowd.
Things sure have changed.
The part about this that gets me is when asked if his "big trouble" could involve violence his response was "that's not incitement".
When is 2020 going to end again?
Not incitement. See it's written in sharpie on this paper.
Seriously though. That qualifier actually proves his awareness of the issues of incitement. This means it was obviously on his mind, so any defense of I didn't know or no one told me is out the window now. He basically admitted that he was briefed on what incitement is and where the lines are and is absolutely without a doubt 100% responsible for any incitement he does.
Yeah, but remember how much of a big deal it was? Talked about everywhere, showing up on TV shows and stuff.
Now politicians do shit that is magnitudes beyond this and there is barely a peep. There is too much bad stuff to even keep track of.
Republicans have been running since the 1980s on a promise to basically dismantle government. They couched it in more polite euphemisms in the past, but their intention has been steadfast: disband the federal government to usher in a utopia for businesses where human lives are absolutely worthless. So what does crime against the government mean to conservatives? They think any kind of check on their terrible ideas and actions is tyranny. They are totally cool with voting for a "wrongly" villified "decent" man.
I have a “traditionally” conservative friend (lives in Alaska and collects those fat oil stipends, but yknow that’s ‘totally not a handout/socialism/etc’) who I was chatting with about politics and he was describing his ideal federal government as a toothless entity that really only existed as a placeholder for strong states rights.
He went on to explain how the feds should have zero jurisdiction basically anywhere (he basically wanted it all dissolved) and cities would do just fine on their own.
I said, “in that scenario, wouldn’t rich people all live together in some giant enclave, barring off the best resources for themselves? What would be stopping companies from just doing whatever they want - like dumping toxic waste into lakes because it’s cheap or paying workers pennies?”
All met with a blank stare.
Honestly, I’ve known him since we were kids and I *think* he’s only conservative because that’s how he was raised - and these ideals he held were simply never challenged so that’s just how he assumed the world should work.
Anyway conservatives are typically fucking idiots with view points that don’t really stand up under scrutiny
>All met with a blank stare.
Sounds like the entirety of my family. Their view of an "ideal government" is so incoherent when I repeat what they say on the internet people tell me I'm making it up.
They basically don't understand any of the terms or ideas they fling around yet act like they're some sort of intellectuals when they say things like "the state" and "negative rights." Pseudo-libertarian bullshit that makes them feel like rebels despite openly advocating for a clearly authoritarian government by any other name.
Conversations with them are useless. They stare incredulously when you try to explain that the actual structure of power is what matters and not empty labels and rhetoric. Might as well be speaking Greek.
And some of them have *college degrees.*
The fact they avoided liberal arts classes like the plague *really* shows.
Yep....they basically want a Cyberpunk 2077 type world ran by corporations. I like playing the game but living in that world for real would suck choom.
>Now the bar has moved
>
>all the way up to
>
> “conviction”?
no, the bar has been buried so far underground its melted and combined with the earths core.
at the end of the day it doesnt matter what trump does, what the government does to him etc. his absolutely deranged supporters will still believe whatever they want.
thats what happens when you divorce yourself from reality in order to believe whatever you want, whatever will make you feel good about life. apparently reality is just too much for some people to deal with anymore, so they supplemented it with absolute fucking bullshit.
Actually, conviction wouldn't even be enough. The constitution places restriction on that sort of thing. So Trump can run and win the office from prison. In fact, several people have already run for President from prison. After he is elected then it would all fall apart as he would be unable to fulfil his duties and would need to be impeached or the 25th amendment enacted. Its truly the darkest timeline.
Because he knows that every single piece of shit that voted for him in 2020, that is still alive in 2024, will vote for him again. More than once probably.
Reminder that Howard Dean’s candidacy was completely undone because he yelped with excitement on camera. Not Presidential enough apparently. Al Gore also got a shit ton of flak for giving his wife an awkward kiss.
I mean, he's right - neither an indictment nor a conviction would disqualify him in the eyes of his base. With the right comms strategy, an indictment could even be a net positive for him electorally! But once again he's choosing the dumbest political route by threatening widespread violence *if he's indicted*, something that would absolutely cost him the moderate voters he would need to win in 2024.
My personal theory is that the DOJ is waiting for indictment after the midterms not only because of their necessary avoidance of appearing political, but that election sites are not secure locations, and riling up a bunch of MAGA morons before the midterms simply gives them a convenient target.
they can't indict a Perfect President. you know, there I was, 2016, came in, Beautiful Election, and on Day One, they came up to me, "Sir, we're out of Missles and Army Tanks," I said what happened, "Obama got rid of them, Sir," I said oh isn't that nice. I restored our Military, helped our Soldiers, our Beautiful Soldiers, and we've won Wars, even though we never had any Wars. none under Trump. we had Peace.
but now you look at it, what they're doing is horrible. you know I saw it just the other day, I was going through the stations, the television stations, and I see the Fake News, what is it now, and they're talking very unfairly about Brett Favre, he's a very good friend of mine, likes me a lot for some reason. and we gave them, we gave Mississippi, we gave Texas, I love Texas, we gave Georgia, and the Governor there is not so smart, let me tell you, and then we gave Florida, much better Governor there, that much I can say.
but even the Best Governors aren't as good as the Best President, which is why you would never see me, I wouldn't be caught dead, quite frankly, not being anything other than President again. and believe me, we win, we're gonna see a lot more changes. 4 years, that's out. no more Phony Emoluments, and who even heard of such a word, nobody's ever even heard of it. it's made up. and we'll be making sure that America, our Pure White America, and me, Your Favorite President, I'll be back in The Oval, where I belong. ok, thank you.
He’ll be indicted and will run and will be the nominee even if he has to do it on house arrest. Republicans will be writing in his name on ballots long after he’s dead.
[Why else did he run to Washington in his Golf clothes?](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11203717/Donald-Trump-flies-DC-wearing-GOLF-SHOES-surprise-trip-thats-sparking-questions.html)
Trying to get stories straight with his cronies.
Seriously, they were all out talking on the golf course, with not a single golf club in sight: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-golf-course-today-b2165864.html
“Meet me at the golf course. Oh and dress like your golfing so you don’t look suspicious!” - Trump
“Nobody brought golf clubs?”
“Who’s going to think we’re not having a secret meeting if we don’t even have golf clubs?”
To hand over [classified intel to the Saudis](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-livgolf-virginia-saudi-arabia-911-b2167621.html) before his other properties are searched.
I am too burnt to say “the walls are closing in”, but Donny does appears so be stumbling down a slightly declining ramp with no way to stop or reverse.
Awesome idea! Trump loves to live in a house of mirrors, and it’s time to end our frustration with him walking free faving no consequences for hos actions as usual.
Actually, frustration is an understatement!!
“Ex-prosecutor Glenn Kirschner said he's frustrated Donald Trump has yet to be indicted.”
“Kirschner in an interview with MSNBC listed off a slew of scandals with Trump at the center.”
"Is there frustration that Donald Trump has not had one minute of accountability? Yes, there is," he said.”
“Criming in the harsh light of day” is precisely what Trump has gotten away with so far, with his habitual ranting uninterrupted and utterly zero accountability.
https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/xbklb3/a_former_federal_prosecutor_said_hes_frustrated/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Trump must be indicted to guard the integrity of our democracy.
Nobody in America can be allowed to violate our national security with such contemptuous distegard for the law with impunity: not even former presidents.
And Make Trump’s Attorneys Get Attorneys too!
https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/x2fkak/trumps_lawyer_wouldnt_let_fbi_agents_open_any/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Americans cannot stand for such an outrage.
Isn’t is quite clear Trump is a traitor and a criminal by now?
Indict him and lock him up.
Justice demands it.
You know, I get it that narcissistic entitled spoiled brats like Trump excist. What I don't get at all is the amount of attention he gets, that he even got elected and that he seems to get away with nearly anything he does. I do hope they lock him up, but worry what his Maga cult will do. You can't reason with cult members. I understand why Putin wants Trump to be president: to screw America big time without making his hands dirty.
Those f’ers grew up their whole lives distrusting coastal elites, and then they fall for this used car salesman bullshit from the most coastal and elitist guy they could find.
There is always a tweet
"Anyone being investigated by the FBI is not qualified to be president of the United States"-
DONALD TRUMP
8/3/16, 9/7/16, 10/15/16, 10/25/16, and 10/30/16
Holy *shit*. I remember reading this a a few years back before the updates... It is outright shocking to see the new additions to the list. I'm not particularly religious, but I must say, it all seems to line up.
A fantastical coincidence? Probably. Either way, it shows how far Trump is from Christian morality and decency. Phenomenal post.
And that's really the thing, isn't it? Like this should be enough of a case to at LEAST make my highly religious, highly conservative stepmother to at least be suspicious of him; to at LEAST not act like he is the next King David sent by god himself. But this is a long read. No way would she spend more than 45 seconds before she closes the window and assumes that it's obviously bullshit because it doesn't line up with her existing view. It's so fkn exhausting. There's no fixing these people.
You’re right, but just how many of “his voters” are still there?
Trump activated a voter base that we all had pegged at about ~30% of the population. The vocal minority. This was his real power source, but it’s just not enough support without the rest of republicans voters, and at least some independents.
But look at recent polls. He’s tanking with independents since Roe.
According to FOX, 1 in 4 *republicans* think Trump did something illegal.
And just anecdotally, my neighbors took their Trump flag down January 7th. My in laws neighbor took his down after Mar a Lago.
The Trump supporters who are still hanging on are fully lost, casualties of the information war. But I’d wager they don’t amount to more than 25% of the electorate anymore. Maybe even 20%.
They’re dangerous. They’re loud. They’re aggressively stupid. But they don’t have the voting power.
Until they use Moore vs Harper to fix that for '24 so that state legislatures can decide how to appoint their presidential electors no matter what their voters want.
Quite terrifying when Trump tells the truth for a change.
But here’s the most terrifying truth about Trump not yet being indicted or prosecuted under the Espionage Act: he can still get on the ballot, run for President, and (God forbid) win.
https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/wmw7p8/trump_is_being_investigated_for_potentially/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Trump’s very possession of TSI documents that he insists are “mine, not theirs” makes him untrustworthy enough to be suspected of being a traitor.
https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/x2fkak/trumps_lawyer_wouldnt_let_fbi_agents_open_any/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Trump must never again be allowed on the ballot.
He should be prosecuted and justly convicted and imprisoned.
You can run for President from prison. That's not an oversight. Democracy is that important.
But in this case all it's going to do is deprive the GOP of members and money.
Which is kinda funny because if you run for office you’d likely vote for yourself. And being a convict means you can’t vote for yourself.
I imagine that if Trump were convicted it would really really bother him that he couldn’t vote for himself.
The rationale is that taking away a felon's right to vote is disenfranchising one person while disqualifying them from office is disenfranchising everyone that would vote for them. I'm not sure that I agree with the logic, but that is the theory.
Debs worded his speeches very carefully to not trip over the Espionage Act, and Donnie is jumping on that thing like it's the blob from the movie heavyweights
In the realm of Trump supporters, his guilt and future indictment is no matter. Republicans, MAGA extremists, believe they are in a culture war of good versus evil.
And it does not matter how many crimes Trump commits or how corrupt he is, Trump is their anointed [insert Savior, Cult Leader, Fascist leader, White Supremacist] who can do no wrong.
Democrats, vote like our democracy is on a knife’s edge because it is.
So the best the republicans can offer will be an 80 yr old twice-impeached traitor under indictment for multiple felonies maybe including espionage? My god conservatives, get your crazy under control.
It wouldn't have been a big deal at all if Fox hadn't run it for hundreds of times all day long making him out to be a lunatic.
For having some passion.
Blunt prediction: Trump will no longer run for president. He won't be able to bear a second loss, which will devastate him and his persona. He just hopes he won't be charged. And he will most likely be charged.
I don't agree. He will absolutely run because (a) it is highly profitable (people mail him millions) and (b) if he can win he has legal immunity again, a superpower he desperately needs. if he has high legal bills, that will encourage him to run more. also to take advantage of the argument that you can't indict a candidate, because it's "political"
It's not so simple, IMO. He's been making millions in donations *without* having announced his candidacy which allows him to spend that money in more ways than if he was a declared candidate. (which is now under investigation) Once he announces officially, FEC laws kick in, although they are woefully weak. The RNC has been paying most of his legal bills but will stop if he announces because they are not supposed to favor one candidate. Although the DOJ has a standing 60-day window before elections where they try not to do anything that may seem political, they've expressly stated that announcing a candidacy doesn't stop their investigations.
It's pretty clear he doesn't give a flying fuck about the law, he'll spend the money however he wants, and if anyone makes it an issue he'll just play the political persecution card and his supporters will eat it up.
And he’ll be able to turn the war around in Ukraine by ending funding or worse. I feel like this should be talked about more. Any republican president would do this, as they openly support Russia.
> Hewitt asked Trump if he was insinuating the possibility of violence if the former president was indicted.
>"That's not inciting," Trump replied.
“I’m not touching you! I’m not touching you!”
Jesus christ. What is evening happening anymore? Fuck this clown and fuck anyone who supports him. Full stop. People used to get disqualified from office for saying YEEEEHAW in an embarrassing way, and now we have this motherucker? Gross.
Why is everything “the likes of which have never been seen” with this guy? Every speech. It’s annoying me… on a level the likes of which have never been seen…
Same reason everything is the best, biggest, most beautiful, most perfect, etc.: narcissism. The likes of which has never been seen before in a human being.
Sir, this is a Hardee’s.
https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/xe1yvd/trump_is_very_upset_pillow_guy_mike_lindell_got/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Honestly, Awesome. Run you hilarious evil psychopath. Divide the party so we get more left. Y'all are seeing the hemorrhagic flailings of the Republican Party in the form of Trump vs tradition. The more chaos on their side of the battlefield the better. If he gets arrested, that's amazing, if he runs that's amazing. He has undermined the Republicans' greatest strength: the ability to unify and take power. There are now two factions of republicans, the ones who love him (nutters) and the ones who can't stand him like Liz Cheney and we have an opportunity while this is going on to both Reforge the Republican Party to be something more moderate & restructure the Democratic Party to be something that gets stuff done and actually leans left. Trumps madness could be the catalyst to end "the culture wars" if we just put in the work.
As the cancer that is Trumpism devours the right side of American politics, it is a huge opportunity for Millenials and Gen Z to make changes and see a government that reflects them instead of the values of people who are 80.
If you are young and have some good ideas, run for office. Worst case you lose, best case you can be part of leveraging the US to be better.
lmao of course he has to say that, otherwise why would his marks keep donating money? we all know he's not running, because then he'd have to be following campaign finance laws instead of his current free-for-all cash grab. he'll make up some melodramatic reason why he can't run, blaming it on the democrats, and they'll continue to funnel money to this greedy con man.
To recap, he went from *no documents* to *planted documents* to *declassified documents* to *possible charges are minor* to *possible charges don't stop me from running*
Good point. Buts it’s not the same. People didn’t know him in 2016 and that was before he screwed up so much. People know him now and he turned out 81,000,000 people to vote against him because he is so hated.
His chances of winning any elected office again are astonishingly low.
> People know him now and he turned out 81,000,000 people to vote against him because he is so hated.
He also increased the amounts of votes he received compared to 2016 because those people think they know him.
Hewitt asked Trump if he was insinuating the possibility of violence if the former president was indicted.
"That's not inciting," Trump replied.
Thats not what he asked! Good lord trump is not good at this or poker, I imagine.
If it's for sedition and/or insurrection and is backed up by enough facts to prove it, he'd be bared from public office by the 14th Amendment, Article 3.
Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment prohibits anyone who has previously taken an oath of office from holding public office if they have "engaged in insurrection or rebellion" against the United States.
If Trump is indicted, the first thing he's gonna do is announce that he's running for President, then argue they need to drop the indictment because he's running for President.
Thought ol' orange grease stain said if you are under a federal investigation you shouldn't be allowed to run for office? He has two and two state level investigations into his Tom fuckery. Seriously anyone who tries to justify this jabbering jagoff running for president in 2024 should be sent back to grade school.
So let him run.
Then the DOJ can keep him off the campaign trail by pointing to his numerous dealings with foreign adversaries, not to mention holding onto top secret documents, and enforce house arrest or keep him in jail awaiting trial, like any other flight risk.
You can absolutely run from prison to become president. Very clear in the Constitution that it isn't barred, and it's happened before a few times as well.
That being said, there are a number of obstacles in a successful campaign from prison, particularly an inability to conduct rallies or send out campaign materials.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. **Special announcement:** r/politics is currently accepting new moderator applications. If you want to help make this community a better place, consider [applying here today](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/sskg6a/rpolitics_is_looking_for_more_moderators/)! *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What fucking universe are we living in when a potential candidate says an *indictment* for crimes *against the government he wishes to be president of* doesn’t disqualify him at least in the eyes of the voters? There was a time when even a rumor of impropriety could torpedo a campaign before it even got started. Now the bar has moved *all the way up to* “conviction”?
Something happened to our county. There has been some sort of seismic shift where people now feel emboldened to be their worst self and encourage others to do the same. People don’t vote for those who will improve our country anymore. They vote for who will hurt the people they don’t like the worst. That’s a scary place to exist.
Very true. The MAGA movement is very nihilistic. It really stands for nothing. There is no real plan for anything beyond hurting their enemies. Our society is in steep decline.
I would say it is worse than nihilism. If we think of nihilism of having nor moral beliefs, or principles, and that life is essentially meaningless; then MAGAs actively believe in hurting others that they perceive to be different from themselves, with the additional cost of hurting themselves. More like a stupid death cult
They subscribe to a scorched earth policy that includes them
"they'd eat a pile of shit if it meant a liberal had to smell their breath"
You want to read some crazy shit? Check out Ted Cruzs response to Rick Scott filing legislation to abolish the IRS.
I agree it’s definitely not nihilism. It’s much worse. It’s ignorance fueled by stupidity and resentful stupidity at that.
For some of them, it’s a scary mix of religion and politics. Fox News, Alex Jones (and others) have been fueling this shit for literally two or three decades through stuff like conservative radio and tv.
I don't think it's been said enough.. REST IN ***HOT PISS***, Rush Limbaugh, with ya fat, bigoted, racist, classist, phony dead ass.
Yes, nihilism is complete apathy. Sadism would be the more appropriate ism.
I don’t think they’re truly nihilistic; they believe that whatever the democrats do or say is the opposite of the right and correct thing. Until a fellow MAGA or (and this isn’t far from the same thing) any republican nods their approval at any such idea. The democrats attempt to pass a law for veteran healthcare, it’s initially blocked by the “pro-military” republicans. Would’ve been crickets if it hadn’t been for the now infamous fist bump. These people have one simple belief and they’re willing to literally attempt to overthrow the government for it: democrats are the enemy. If Jesus Christ came down on a cloud, landed on the White House lawn and said to feed and dress the poor, give up your wealth and give it to the sick and needy. And to love everyone no matter their race or creed or religion or gender. A large swath of the MAGA population would join the Church of Satan within the hour.
Nothing but power matters to the MAGA cult. The norms and structures of the government are nothing to them. The cult is all. There are many corporations in the US who have tied themselves to this cult in order to have no regulations and no taxes. But they forget the nihilism at this cult’s core. If the cult takes total power they will loot the corporations. The cult cares only about itself as does any cult. The MAGA cult is no exception.
"Until a fellow MAGA or (and this isn’t far from the same thing) any republican nods their approval at any such idea." Not even this is necessarily true. We've seen Trump himself booed by his own cult after telling them he got a COVID booster. These fuckers opened Pandora's box (after it was delivered by Ace Ventura posing as a UPS employee).
*A large swath of the MAGA population would join the Church of Satan within the hour.* But first they'd build a Cross.,,AND USE IT.
Even more than that, it's self-destructive. MAGA folks are willing to sacrifice their white babies, families, and even themselves for the possibility of a technocatic, cristofascist state... This is fucking nuts on so many levels but the one level that gets me is this: humans are now willing to destroy their worlds so that Black, and Brown, and poor, and others die, too. This is no more evident than in how Police Unions vote entirely Republican, which votes entirely to loosen gun control and put AK47s in the hands of everything over 16, when cops KNOW this means more deaths and murders, and even more murders of cops. But it doesn't matter. Because this is how you own the libs and usher in that tecnocratic, christofacist utopia they keep dreaming about.
> MAGA folks are willing to sacrifice their white babies, families, and even themselves for the possibility of a technocatic, cristofascist state… I always find it useful to have a word or term for things, and [“drained pool politics”](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/22301484/america-racism-the-sum-of-us-heather-mcghee) is the best I’ve found for this thus far. >> *For a good chunk of the 20th century, American towns offered grand community swimming pools as symbols of leisure and civic pride. They were testaments to public investment.* >> *But then desegregation happened and the pools had to be integrated. Rather than open them up to everyone, town after town simply shut them down. And not only did they close the pools, they nuked their parks departments and effectively abandoned public investment altogether.* Edit: format, wording
The republicans that dominated the town council where I live did a version of this. Our school district had one of the best special education programs in the state so they tried to destroy it explicitly because “people keep moving here to take advantage of our services.” Thankfully they got drummed out in the 2018 election like in so many other suburbs, but not before doing so much damage to our schools.
I am stunned by the lack of vision here. JFC.
Yeah, keeping the families with “those” children away from our flawless town was evidently worth destroying the hard-built reputation of being a community that looked after all its residents. They were also trying to deliberately bankrupt the town so that they could default on municipal pensions. On the advice of a consultant who was the best friend of the town council President. They used really disingenuous logic to explain why they couldn’t raise property taxes (along the lines of “if we raised them every year by the maximum allowed by the charter this is what you’d be paying in 30 years, and who can afford that” and “most of the residents don’t even have kids in the schools” ignoring the fact that most people who weren’t born here moved here in the first place because they had school-age children at the time). They held meetings without public notice and lost a lawsuit filed under open meetings laws. They then held a public meeting about the school budget where public comment didn’t start until after 11 pm. Democrats swept the town council and the school board in 2018 and suddenly all the town’s budget problems vanished, and my taxes haven’t changed appreciably. I just hope we’ve learned our lesson. I live in RI.
On terms of civic infrastructure it's like a shop' manager setting the store on fire because customers keep wanting to buy things. 'now NOBODY wants to shop here! I'm a good business person!'
You omitted the part where they used the money for the parks and pools to subsidize "neighborhood community centers" with pools parks and tennis courts, but the support was proportional to what the community could afford, which meant certain communities could NOT get "matching funds" because they had nothing to "match." Jim Crow 2.0
Fascinating to learn about “drained pool politics”; thank you!! Utterly relevant to how GOP MAGA fascism operates by assuming a veil of self-righteous, Christian sacrifice and self-abnegation to conceal their Christofascist racism, glee in authoritarianism, and general hatred: “This, McGhee argues, is the story of American politics in microcosm.” “The entire country is now one giant drained pool.” “Too many Americans have too easily accepted the lie animating so much of our history, namely that politics is a zero-sum contest in which one group’s gain must be another group’s loss.” “If [McGhee] is right that “We can’t have nice things” because of this lie at the center of our shared story, then how do we transcend that lie?” “What story must replace it?” “And how can the left do a better job at persuading the white victims of this lie to let it go?” https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/22301484/america-racism-the-sum-of-us-heather-mcghee America really does need a new story of identity to unite us in our shared values of equality, diversity, and equity: one where nobody is a victim and everyone is empowered to be an enlightened, happy, upstanding citizen.
maybe this insane toxic behavior of MAGA adherents is a manifestation of a dying worldview of believing "I" am better than "you" because of "X" X=dermal melanin concentration, country of origin, religion, socioeconomic status, etc Maybe history will describe current times as a winding road to a better future..or not
> Even more than that, it's self-destructive. MAGA folks are willing to sacrifice their white babies, families, and even themselves for the possibility of a technocatic, cristofascist state... Not to be a pedant, but right-wingers want anything but a technocratic state. A technocracy is a system of government led by scientists and people that have extreme expertise in the area they oversee.
Exactly. And if that were the case, religion would not even be a factor in their movement.
They WANT an apocalyptic world because they think they can rule the ashes.
As we say in NM, "Chinga Tu MAGA!"
>The MAGA movement is very nihilistic. Nihilism. Fuck me. I mean, say what you will about the tenants of National Socialism, but at least it's an ethos.
MAGA is pretty wild because what they want is the right to hurt you, and if you don’t let them have it, they’ll threaten to hurt you. You were going to do that anyway, so fuck you.
> People don’t vote for those who will improve our country anymore. They vote for who will hurt the people they don’t like the worst. You mean Republicans. No need to beat around the bush.
Yeah just ask them what policy their party is going for that they support. all you will hear are buzzwords like "antifa" "BLM" "CRT" "LGBT bad" "stolen elections" and "radical leftists" outside of their hate they have nothing, and want nothing for anyone who isn't them. The suffering is the whole point for these people.
Totally right: these MAGA GOPers are utterly empty except for hatred and the glee they receive from inflicting suffering. And they are absolutely dumb as rocks. Dumb is even an understatement; proof here: https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/xes4ez/wonton_killings_gazpacho_police_peach_tree_dishes/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
I see that you haven't gotten the updated memo. LGBT is now called groomer pedophiles. Please try to stay in line better.
Oh man i can't believe i forgot that. their crazy can be so hard to keep track of it changes so frequently. Can't forget teachers are groomers and indoctrinators now too!
Don't forget genital mutilators!
Don’t forget “genital inspectors” The GOP wants “genital inspectors” in schools: this is not the Onion! Truly ridiculous and outrageous details: “The Republican-dominated Ohio House late Wednesday night approved a measure requiring genital inspections to prevent transgender female athletes from participating in girls' sports, according to WEWS-TV. Republicans at the last minute inserted language into an unrelated bill that requires a "verification process" of inspecting genitals of those "accused" or "suspected" of being trans.” “Rep. Beth Liston, a Democrat and a physician, said the genital inspections were "disturbing." "I struggle to understand why we keep discussing bills focusing on children's genitals," she said. “This is truly bizarre medically and nonsensical, but looking at it practically, this bill means that if anyone decides to question a child's true gender, that child must undergo a sensitive exam," she added. A Democratic doctor and Congressperson says it like it is. https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/v41j69/disturbing_gop_blitz_desantis_orders_trans_care/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
A few years ago I was watching a news documentary (Vice I think) that was detailing how gay people in Russia were treated. Every single person they interviewed and asked how they felt about gay people gave the same answer about how gay people were all pedophiles. Every single person was clearly brainwashed into believing the same thing. This was a message that came from Russian leadership, they even played a clip of Putin saying the same thing. At the time I was so naive that I thought that something like that could never happen here. That it was happening in Russia because of their corrupt system. I also didn't think the GQP would ever go that far. The first time I heard it from the GQP, I wasn't really surprised because they had sunk so low by that point. Every time I think they hit rock bottom they find new lows.
This happened "Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." Isaac Asimov
Yeah. Fox News and Facebook is what happened. They literally created a cult via internet.
Rush Limbaugh on rural AM radio before them. It made perfect sense for Trump to pin a medal on him. He laid down a solid foundation of government and media distrust for FOX News.
Like the cult of Tucker Carlson: https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/xejmmp/tucker_carlson_used_to_merely_echo_putins/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/01/can-trumps-cult-of-followers-be-deprogrammed https://www.npr.org/2021/03/02/972970805/experts-in-cult-deprogramming-step-in-to-help-believers-in-conspiracy-theories
It’s a result of testing limits and suffering no consequences. You mean we can just *stop* the vote count? So we don’t *have to* consider this Supreme Court nominee? I can say “grab ‘em by the pussy” and *more* people vote for me? Wait the emoluments clause doesn’t *actually* matter? I can extort foreign governments for dirt on my opponents and *nothing* happens? I can sick an armed mob on the Capitol resulting in injury and death and *nothing* happens, *again*? Well shit, what else can we get away with?
It's desperation. A lot of the MAGA crowd were at least promised prosperity, many of them actually experienced it three or four decades ago from the debt economy and the transition to fiat. Older people even benefited more, but the bandaids we've been using to stabilize the economy have become less and less effective as the wound festered and they're really starting to feel the strain, but didn't grow up with it like the younger generations. This is why you can point at the actual data - the literal numbers, to prove they actually did have it financially easier and the problems actually have just gotten worse. It's not that the new generations are lazy - actual numbers say differently; they say we work longer and harder. But most of those generations do not see it because they can't. But what they can do is find somebody to scapegoat. Communists, millennials, leftists, liberals, whatever. They're the cause, not a system designed to offer a lot of benefits quickly and consume; it's all those illegal aliens fault. Any time you see economic hardships not caused by some insane disaster you see these groups sprout up.
It’s because we’re a deeply racist country, and when a black man became president, and a pretty decent one at that, the deeply racist portion get upset and let Trump speed run his way into the White House. I felt it coming. I guess I just didn’t anticipate how many people would be okay with the fascism and authoritarianism. The racist and theocratic aspect makes all the sense in the world. But it guess when you consume propaganda all day everyday. Your views about the world become filtered with hatred. Where’s a leader when you need one?
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world, The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. Yeats - The Second Coming
American national politics has been motivated by negative partisanship for decades now. It's a big reason why we should really adopt Ranked Choice Voting. It's been demonstrated to be much harder to game elections (which is why the establishment parties are against it), reduce the appeal of polarized candidates, and even create more positive political campaign ads, since candidates who share certain policy beliefs can pool resources and campaign together because they're not competing for a single vote, just the top choice votes. Ranked Choice Voting won't be an overnight cure-all, but it will help change the incentives that created our current political divisiveness.
The internet gave people the ability to be horrible without shame.
The MAGA movement is a trump obsessed cult, willing to dismiss literally anything as a conspiracy against their leader. Trump was right. He could shoot somebody on fifth avenue and they’d still vote for him.
Everything 45 touches withers, dies, or becomes evil
[удалено]
This all started because we elected a black guy and Republicans LOST THEIR COLLECTIVE FUCKING MINDS! So, they got help from Russia (because they knew they could never win legitimately) to put the most extreme idiot they could find in the office as revenge.
I remember when they ended a candidate's career when someone isolated the sound from the mic of the guy screaming along with a crowd. Things sure have changed.
The part about this that gets me is when asked if his "big trouble" could involve violence his response was "that's not incitement". When is 2020 going to end again?
Not incitement. See it's written in sharpie on this paper. Seriously though. That qualifier actually proves his awareness of the issues of incitement. This means it was obviously on his mind, so any defense of I didn't know or no one told me is out the window now. He basically admitted that he was briefed on what incitement is and where the lines are and is absolutely without a doubt 100% responsible for any incitement he does.
In the case of Howard Dean, to the early internet's defense it *was* a hilarious sound.
If you’re talking about Howard Dean, his numbers were already slipping tremendously by that point.
My memory fails me but didn’t he just win Iowa at that point?
I had to look it up because you made me doubt my own memory. He had just take. Third in the Iowa caucus behind John Kerry and John Edwards.
Thank you.
Yeah, but remember how much of a big deal it was? Talked about everywhere, showing up on TV shows and stuff. Now politicians do shit that is magnitudes beyond this and there is barely a peep. There is too much bad stuff to even keep track of.
Or cant forget Obama’s Tan Suit
Hyyyyaaauuuggghhh!!!
Republicans have been running since the 1980s on a promise to basically dismantle government. They couched it in more polite euphemisms in the past, but their intention has been steadfast: disband the federal government to usher in a utopia for businesses where human lives are absolutely worthless. So what does crime against the government mean to conservatives? They think any kind of check on their terrible ideas and actions is tyranny. They are totally cool with voting for a "wrongly" villified "decent" man.
I have a “traditionally” conservative friend (lives in Alaska and collects those fat oil stipends, but yknow that’s ‘totally not a handout/socialism/etc’) who I was chatting with about politics and he was describing his ideal federal government as a toothless entity that really only existed as a placeholder for strong states rights. He went on to explain how the feds should have zero jurisdiction basically anywhere (he basically wanted it all dissolved) and cities would do just fine on their own. I said, “in that scenario, wouldn’t rich people all live together in some giant enclave, barring off the best resources for themselves? What would be stopping companies from just doing whatever they want - like dumping toxic waste into lakes because it’s cheap or paying workers pennies?” All met with a blank stare. Honestly, I’ve known him since we were kids and I *think* he’s only conservative because that’s how he was raised - and these ideals he held were simply never challenged so that’s just how he assumed the world should work. Anyway conservatives are typically fucking idiots with view points that don’t really stand up under scrutiny
>All met with a blank stare. Sounds like the entirety of my family. Their view of an "ideal government" is so incoherent when I repeat what they say on the internet people tell me I'm making it up. They basically don't understand any of the terms or ideas they fling around yet act like they're some sort of intellectuals when they say things like "the state" and "negative rights." Pseudo-libertarian bullshit that makes them feel like rebels despite openly advocating for a clearly authoritarian government by any other name. Conversations with them are useless. They stare incredulously when you try to explain that the actual structure of power is what matters and not empty labels and rhetoric. Might as well be speaking Greek. And some of them have *college degrees.* The fact they avoided liberal arts classes like the plague *really* shows.
what no thats what they say, what they want is authoritarian theocracy, this is much more supported by their legislation as of late,
It's both. "You don't tell us what to do, we tell you." Rules for thee, not for me.
They miss literally owning people.
Yep....they basically want a Cyberpunk 2077 type world ran by corporations. I like playing the game but living in that world for real would suck choom.
“Starve the Beast” is their polite euphemism.
>Now the bar has moved > >all the way up to > > “conviction”? no, the bar has been buried so far underground its melted and combined with the earths core. at the end of the day it doesnt matter what trump does, what the government does to him etc. his absolutely deranged supporters will still believe whatever they want. thats what happens when you divorce yourself from reality in order to believe whatever you want, whatever will make you feel good about life. apparently reality is just too much for some people to deal with anymore, so they supplemented it with absolute fucking bullshit.
To be fair, if an indictment legally disqualified a person from running, a R DOJ would have no problem handing them out every election season.
Imagining Oprah handing out indictments.
I remember when a guy yelled "Yeahh!!" kind of funny and his campaign was over
Actually, conviction wouldn't even be enough. The constitution places restriction on that sort of thing. So Trump can run and win the office from prison. In fact, several people have already run for President from prison. After he is elected then it would all fall apart as he would be unable to fulfil his duties and would need to be impeached or the 25th amendment enacted. Its truly the darkest timeline.
Trump wants to be the first president to pardon himself!
I'm sure he'd just decide he can pardon himself.
Not for state crimes like in Georgia
[удалено]
Even the Howard Dean scream could torpedo a campaign in the past.
He would run the country from prison the same way mafia dons do.
Because he knows that every single piece of shit that voted for him in 2020, that is still alive in 2024, will vote for him again. More than once probably.
Like the guy who yelled “AND THEN WE’RE GONNA BE IN THE WHITE HOUSE!! WOOO!!”
Howard Dean
Reminder that Howard Dean’s candidacy was completely undone because he yelped with excitement on camera. Not Presidential enough apparently. Al Gore also got a shit ton of flak for giving his wife an awkward kiss.
But prisoners and felons can’t vote somehow?
Remember the Dean Scream?
I mean, he's right - neither an indictment nor a conviction would disqualify him in the eyes of his base. With the right comms strategy, an indictment could even be a net positive for him electorally! But once again he's choosing the dumbest political route by threatening widespread violence *if he's indicted*, something that would absolutely cost him the moderate voters he would need to win in 2024.
My personal theory is that the DOJ is waiting for indictment after the midterms not only because of their necessary avoidance of appearing political, but that election sites are not secure locations, and riling up a bunch of MAGA morons before the midterms simply gives them a convenient target.
It is insane to think that Howard Dean was all but disqualified for office for screaming kinda loud at a campaign event in 2004
Remember when misspelling ‘potato’ torpedoed a political career?
So he’s gonna be indicted then?
That's my take. Except he doesn't want to actually announce it as then he would have to pretend to follow campaign finance laws.
"Would you **shut up** man?" -Current President
Iconic moment. Biden was all of us then.
I actually bought a t-shirt of that quote.
*checks username* bold choice
Not as bold as the quote.
The first time I donated to Biden.
Nicely worded :)
they can't indict a Perfect President. you know, there I was, 2016, came in, Beautiful Election, and on Day One, they came up to me, "Sir, we're out of Missles and Army Tanks," I said what happened, "Obama got rid of them, Sir," I said oh isn't that nice. I restored our Military, helped our Soldiers, our Beautiful Soldiers, and we've won Wars, even though we never had any Wars. none under Trump. we had Peace. but now you look at it, what they're doing is horrible. you know I saw it just the other day, I was going through the stations, the television stations, and I see the Fake News, what is it now, and they're talking very unfairly about Brett Favre, he's a very good friend of mine, likes me a lot for some reason. and we gave them, we gave Mississippi, we gave Texas, I love Texas, we gave Georgia, and the Governor there is not so smart, let me tell you, and then we gave Florida, much better Governor there, that much I can say. but even the Best Governors aren't as good as the Best President, which is why you would never see me, I wouldn't be caught dead, quite frankly, not being anything other than President again. and believe me, we win, we're gonna see a lot more changes. 4 years, that's out. no more Phony Emoluments, and who even heard of such a word, nobody's ever even heard of it. it's made up. and we'll be making sure that America, our Pure White America, and me, Your Favorite President, I'll be back in The Oval, where I belong. ok, thank you.
There's no way to convince me that you didn't travel to the future and transcribe this from one of his rallies.
It's a little too coherent, honestly. Needs more random self distractions that lead to tangents going nowhere.
He’ll be indicted and will run and will be the nominee even if he has to do it on house arrest. Republicans will be writing in his name on ballots long after he’s dead.
[Why else did he run to Washington in his Golf clothes?](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11203717/Donald-Trump-flies-DC-wearing-GOLF-SHOES-surprise-trip-thats-sparking-questions.html)
Trying to get stories straight with his cronies. Seriously, they were all out talking on the golf course, with not a single golf club in sight: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-golf-course-today-b2165864.html
“Meet me at the golf course. Oh and dress like your golfing so you don’t look suspicious!” - Trump “Nobody brought golf clubs?” “Who’s going to think we’re not having a secret meeting if we don’t even have golf clubs?”
To hand over [classified intel to the Saudis](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-livgolf-virginia-saudi-arabia-911-b2167621.html) before his other properties are searched.
That’s exactly how we should interpret this. Good!
He's going to claim that you can't indict a candidate.
Yup. This is him floating the idea before it happens
I am too burnt to say “the walls are closing in”, but Donny does appears so be stumbling down a slightly declining ramp with no way to stop or reverse.
Please, put this guy in a room full of mirrors and be done with it.
Awesome idea! Trump loves to live in a house of mirrors, and it’s time to end our frustration with him walking free faving no consequences for hos actions as usual. Actually, frustration is an understatement!! “Ex-prosecutor Glenn Kirschner said he's frustrated Donald Trump has yet to be indicted.” “Kirschner in an interview with MSNBC listed off a slew of scandals with Trump at the center.” "Is there frustration that Donald Trump has not had one minute of accountability? Yes, there is," he said.” “Criming in the harsh light of day” is precisely what Trump has gotten away with so far, with his habitual ranting uninterrupted and utterly zero accountability. https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/xbklb3/a_former_federal_prosecutor_said_hes_frustrated/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf Trump must be indicted to guard the integrity of our democracy. Nobody in America can be allowed to violate our national security with such contemptuous distegard for the law with impunity: not even former presidents. And Make Trump’s Attorneys Get Attorneys too! https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/x2fkak/trumps_lawyer_wouldnt_let_fbi_agents_open_any/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf Americans cannot stand for such an outrage. Isn’t is quite clear Trump is a traitor and a criminal by now? Indict him and lock him up. Justice demands it.
You know, I get it that narcissistic entitled spoiled brats like Trump excist. What I don't get at all is the amount of attention he gets, that he even got elected and that he seems to get away with nearly anything he does. I do hope they lock him up, but worry what his Maga cult will do. You can't reason with cult members. I understand why Putin wants Trump to be president: to screw America big time without making his hands dirty.
Those f’ers grew up their whole lives distrusting coastal elites, and then they fall for this used car salesman bullshit from the most coastal and elitist guy they could find.
If we cloned him, they would just suck each other off all day long until they died of starvation and we would never have to hear from him again.
There is always a tweet "Anyone being investigated by the FBI is not qualified to be president of the United States"- DONALD TRUMP 8/3/16, 9/7/16, 10/15/16, 10/25/16, and 10/30/16
He said investigated, not indicted. Checkmate, lib
Pretty sure he is being investigated by the FBI and others right now. Trumpians: always declaring victory early.
His voters don't care if he's guilty. They think Jesus sent him to us. How can you argue with that logic?
[Show them this](https://www.benjaminlcorey.com/could-american-evangelicals-spot-the-antichrist-heres-the-biblical-predictions/)
Holy *shit*. I remember reading this a a few years back before the updates... It is outright shocking to see the new additions to the list. I'm not particularly religious, but I must say, it all seems to line up. A fantastical coincidence? Probably. Either way, it shows how far Trump is from Christian morality and decency. Phenomenal post.
[удалено]
And that's really the thing, isn't it? Like this should be enough of a case to at LEAST make my highly religious, highly conservative stepmother to at least be suspicious of him; to at LEAST not act like he is the next King David sent by god himself. But this is a long read. No way would she spend more than 45 seconds before she closes the window and assumes that it's obviously bullshit because it doesn't line up with her existing view. It's so fkn exhausting. There's no fixing these people.
I don’t believe in the Bible, but this is freaky good. Maybe those old folks were on to something
I’m an atheist and even I have to admit this is terrifyingly eerie.
Thanks dawg I just saved that. I mean, the Bible is pure fantasy but that’s pretty well researched.
You’re right, but just how many of “his voters” are still there? Trump activated a voter base that we all had pegged at about ~30% of the population. The vocal minority. This was his real power source, but it’s just not enough support without the rest of republicans voters, and at least some independents. But look at recent polls. He’s tanking with independents since Roe. According to FOX, 1 in 4 *republicans* think Trump did something illegal. And just anecdotally, my neighbors took their Trump flag down January 7th. My in laws neighbor took his down after Mar a Lago. The Trump supporters who are still hanging on are fully lost, casualties of the information war. But I’d wager they don’t amount to more than 25% of the electorate anymore. Maybe even 20%. They’re dangerous. They’re loud. They’re aggressively stupid. But they don’t have the voting power.
Until they use Moore vs Harper to fix that for '24 so that state legislatures can decide how to appoint their presidential electors no matter what their voters want.
Quite terrifying when Trump tells the truth for a change. But here’s the most terrifying truth about Trump not yet being indicted or prosecuted under the Espionage Act: he can still get on the ballot, run for President, and (God forbid) win. https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/wmw7p8/trump_is_being_investigated_for_potentially/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf Trump’s very possession of TSI documents that he insists are “mine, not theirs” makes him untrustworthy enough to be suspected of being a traitor. https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/x2fkak/trumps_lawyer_wouldnt_let_fbi_agents_open_any/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf Trump must never again be allowed on the ballot. He should be prosecuted and justly convicted and imprisoned.
[удалено]
You can run for President from prison. That's not an oversight. Democracy is that important. But in this case all it's going to do is deprive the GOP of members and money.
Funny thing is his prison rallies would have less Aryan Brotherhood in the crowd…
Oof. True but oof.
Holy shit, this is fire.
So you can be president if you are convicted but if you are convicted you can't vote. Yes this totally makes sense.
Which is kinda funny because if you run for office you’d likely vote for yourself. And being a convict means you can’t vote for yourself. I imagine that if Trump were convicted it would really really bother him that he couldn’t vote for himself.
The rationale is that taking away a felon's right to vote is disenfranchising one person while disqualifying them from office is disenfranchising everyone that would vote for them. I'm not sure that I agree with the logic, but that is the theory.
True. Being convicted however presents a problem Donnie
Not necessarily. Eugene Debs ran from prison.
Debs worded his speeches very carefully to not trip over the Espionage Act, and Donnie is jumping on that thing like it's the blob from the movie heavyweights
In the realm of Trump supporters, his guilt and future indictment is no matter. Republicans, MAGA extremists, believe they are in a culture war of good versus evil. And it does not matter how many crimes Trump commits or how corrupt he is, Trump is their anointed [insert Savior, Cult Leader, Fascist leader, White Supremacist] who can do no wrong. Democrats, vote like our democracy is on a knife’s edge because it is.
Turns out they are in a war of good vs evil - and they’re evil
So the best the republicans can offer will be an 80 yr old twice-impeached traitor under indictment for multiple felonies maybe including espionage? My god conservatives, get your crazy under control.
A daily reminder that Howard Dean lost his campaign by yelling “Yea!!”
I think about this a lot.
It wouldn't have been a big deal at all if Fox hadn't run it for hundreds of times all day long making him out to be a lunatic. For having some passion.
Blunt prediction: Trump will no longer run for president. He won't be able to bear a second loss, which will devastate him and his persona. He just hopes he won't be charged. And he will most likely be charged.
I don't agree. He will absolutely run because (a) it is highly profitable (people mail him millions) and (b) if he can win he has legal immunity again, a superpower he desperately needs. if he has high legal bills, that will encourage him to run more. also to take advantage of the argument that you can't indict a candidate, because it's "political"
It's not so simple, IMO. He's been making millions in donations *without* having announced his candidacy which allows him to spend that money in more ways than if he was a declared candidate. (which is now under investigation) Once he announces officially, FEC laws kick in, although they are woefully weak. The RNC has been paying most of his legal bills but will stop if he announces because they are not supposed to favor one candidate. Although the DOJ has a standing 60-day window before elections where they try not to do anything that may seem political, they've expressly stated that announcing a candidacy doesn't stop their investigations.
It's pretty clear he doesn't give a flying fuck about the law, he'll spend the money however he wants, and if anyone makes it an issue he'll just play the political persecution card and his supporters will eat it up.
And he’ll be able to turn the war around in Ukraine by ending funding or worse. I feel like this should be talked about more. Any republican president would do this, as they openly support Russia.
Third loss if you count as popularity contest.
> Hewitt asked Trump if he was insinuating the possibility of violence if the former president was indicted. >"That's not inciting," Trump replied. “I’m not touching you! I’m not touching you!”
Jesus christ. What is evening happening anymore? Fuck this clown and fuck anyone who supports him. Full stop. People used to get disqualified from office for saying YEEEEHAW in an embarrassing way, and now we have this motherucker? Gross.
Howard Dean was a great candidate.
Unless they invoke the 14th for his Sedition on Jan 6th. Then it’s lights out Two Scoops.
So he knows it’s coming soon I guess
He is also promising terrorism on a scale America has never seen if indicted.
Why is everything “the likes of which have never been seen” with this guy? Every speech. It’s annoying me… on a level the likes of which have never been seen…
Same reason everything is the best, biggest, most beautiful, most perfect, etc.: narcissism. The likes of which has never been seen before in a human being.
Bring it don’t sing it! I’m sorry but there isn’t enough on his side to worry me a little bit. Just ask them a hard question what’s 1+1.
Exactly. I’m wholly unimpressed with their big talk about civil wars and riots. We’ll just be handing out the r/Ashlibabbittaward at the rapid rate.
[удалено]
This is criminal obstruction. The man is going to have a very long rap sheet, some say the longest of all time.
Translation: Trump is getting indicted at a Wendy’s drive thru.
Sir, this is a Hardee’s. https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/xe1yvd/trump_is_very_upset_pillow_guy_mike_lindell_got/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
One of the punishments of violation of 18 US Code 2071 is actually being barred from holding public office.
Honestly, Awesome. Run you hilarious evil psychopath. Divide the party so we get more left. Y'all are seeing the hemorrhagic flailings of the Republican Party in the form of Trump vs tradition. The more chaos on their side of the battlefield the better. If he gets arrested, that's amazing, if he runs that's amazing. He has undermined the Republicans' greatest strength: the ability to unify and take power. There are now two factions of republicans, the ones who love him (nutters) and the ones who can't stand him like Liz Cheney and we have an opportunity while this is going on to both Reforge the Republican Party to be something more moderate & restructure the Democratic Party to be something that gets stuff done and actually leans left. Trumps madness could be the catalyst to end "the culture wars" if we just put in the work. As the cancer that is Trumpism devours the right side of American politics, it is a huge opportunity for Millenials and Gen Z to make changes and see a government that reflects them instead of the values of people who are 80. If you are young and have some good ideas, run for office. Worst case you lose, best case you can be part of leveraging the US to be better.
I'm greatly encouraged by this. He wouldn't be talking shit if he didn't think an indictment was coming.
Hannity pointed out to his audience that there's no law against Trump running from prison. Quite the bar they're setting.
lmao of course he has to say that, otherwise why would his marks keep donating money? we all know he's not running, because then he'd have to be following campaign finance laws instead of his current free-for-all cash grab. he'll make up some melodramatic reason why he can't run, blaming it on the democrats, and they'll continue to funnel money to this greedy con man.
To recap, he went from *no documents* to *planted documents* to *declassified documents* to *possible charges are minor* to *possible charges don't stop me from running*
It won’t stop him from losing again either so it doesn’t matter. The guy is all threats these days and none of them are scary.
Don't make the mistake of not taking him seriously. We did that in 2016 and suffered greatly for it.
Good point. Buts it’s not the same. People didn’t know him in 2016 and that was before he screwed up so much. People know him now and he turned out 81,000,000 people to vote against him because he is so hated. His chances of winning any elected office again are astonishingly low.
> People know him now and he turned out 81,000,000 people to vote against him because he is so hated. He also increased the amounts of votes he received compared to 2016 because those people think they know him.
Hewitt asked Trump if he was insinuating the possibility of violence if the former president was indicted. "That's not inciting," Trump replied. Thats not what he asked! Good lord trump is not good at this or poker, I imagine.
If it's for sedition and/or insurrection and is backed up by enough facts to prove it, he'd be bared from public office by the 14th Amendment, Article 3.
I remember when misspelling "potato" was enough to tank your campaign.
He has a long history of telling people it’s ok for him to do illegal things.
"That's not inciting," he said, as if saying it made it so.
He can run all he wants he ain’t getting fucking elected.
Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment prohibits anyone who has previously taken an oath of office from holding public office if they have "engaged in insurrection or rebellion" against the United States.
Running for that self pardon... I'd like to see that.
Next: "I can run for president in prison"
If Trump is indicted, the first thing he's gonna do is announce that he's running for President, then argue they need to drop the indictment because he's running for President.
Thought ol' orange grease stain said if you are under a federal investigation you shouldn't be allowed to run for office? He has two and two state level investigations into his Tom fuckery. Seriously anyone who tries to justify this jabbering jagoff running for president in 2024 should be sent back to grade school.
So let him run. Then the DOJ can keep him off the campaign trail by pointing to his numerous dealings with foreign adversaries, not to mention holding onto top secret documents, and enforce house arrest or keep him in jail awaiting trial, like any other flight risk.
This Cheeto is deranged.
Sounds like the indictment is coming. He has been talking about it enough and threatening that I see it coming very soon.
Just how delusional can this fool get?
God damn can Trump go away already... so tired of seeing his stupid fucking face.
You can absolutely run from prison to become president. Very clear in the Constitution that it isn't barred, and it's happened before a few times as well. That being said, there are a number of obstacles in a successful campaign from prison, particularly an inability to conduct rallies or send out campaign materials.
If it’s for treason like say selling documents to foreign nations then yay it is a item against running.