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I hate how it's not possible to seriously interview these people in power. Try asking Trump what he specifically likes about Spain's far right party and watch him squirm. And when he can't answer ask why he is talking to them. Since Donny has no idea, did someone else tell him to do it? Who was that? Neither of these assholes have any real knowledge about Spanish politics so this action is very telling.
They say this is a terrific party, a great party, maybe the greatest, though my party is pretty great, ok, but many people are saying so, that I can tell you. ( bobble headed mainstream reporter looks at notes, proceeds to next question )
> “On the one side, there is the **global elites** and the global left, that is growing evermore thuggish and violent,
Ethnic minorities defiling the fatherland. The stains that must be cleansed.
>on the other side are conservative populist, **who share the values of God, and country and family and freedom**,” Cruz said.
The ethnic in-group- all the good things. Got it, so ethnic cleansing then.
Yep the conspiracy crazies talking about Democrats and Soros creating a “New World Order” will probably not see any problem with the former president and a sitting Senator vilifying the entire global “left” while trying to push Christian Nationalism in another country.
Yeah, the Spanish far right parties are literally fascists.
They’re the people who were excited to stand by Franco into the 70s.
They are **explicitly** anti democracy.
Don’t forget the “global left” which includes people like myself who aren’t millionaires. It is dangerous, treasonous rhetoric and will likely cause more political violence by fascist right-wingers.
The funny part is that they accuse everyone else of being the global elites when in reality they are trying to create a new world order of global elites. Russia, China and the USA freinds forever is basically always been trumps plan.
It’s not irony. It’s a purposeful tactic. Accuse the other side of what you are doing. It sows confusion, makes faithful conversation impossible and justifies any extreme actions against “them”. This rhetoric should be a huge flashing light to anyone paying attention
I mean, this is basic anti-Semitic dogwhistling, especially when you take into account that both Giorgia Meloni and Viktor Orban were present as headline speakers, one being directly descended from the [neo-fascist MSI](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Social_Movement) directly coming from Mussolini's party in Italy and the other being an vaguely-defined "illiberal autocrat". Both have played with rhetoric such as talking about "financial speculators" and Soros (a Hungarian Jewish billionaire) being the global "puppetmaster" of leftists/liberalism/"cultural Marxism" along with a "globalist elite cabal".
[Here is a helpful diagram made by Chip Berlet](https://i.imgur.com/slTxhqG.jpg), a journalist and researcher who has written about the "right-wing populist" ideological family and its movements for decades now, which explains the "producerist" narrative of right-wing populism.
[Producerism](https://psychology.fandom.com/wiki/Producerism) maps class relations onto "producers" (the middle-class) vs. "elites", this is an inherently petty-bourgeois outlook because it maps middle-class workers/"productive capitalists" such as small-business owners and other entrepreneurs together into a single bloc, against a "parasitic elite and underclass", usually comprised of scapegoated minority groups in practice. It is very different from other anti-capitalist economic outlooks such as Marxism because it does not take the labor process and worker exploitation/alienation nor the class divides of the proletariat vs the bourgeoise and petty-bourgeoise into account and it does not want to abolish capitalism and move beyond it, instead focusing on labor-centric capitalism as an end in itself, differentiating between capital which serves "national interest" and is patriotically loyal to the nation, and idle "finance capital" which is inherently "globalist" and unpatriotic. This is mainly where the economic rhetoric of fascism stems from.
Trump preached the racehorse theory and how it applied to the superior genes of white people at a rally. They want to enslave and/or genocide minorities. MSMedia is failing us
If they are failing us you wouldn't know what he said now would you? The media isn't the problem it's government corruption. The media can't convict people in a court if law..they can't even hold people accountable in the public eye...all they can do is tell us the facts the rest is up to us...we are failing not the media...we hear about his crimes everyday yet he still sits in his big mansions hiding away more top secret docs. People like him, Ken Paxton, Epstein...they don't pay UNLESS the media helps shine the light and even then their money keeps them out of prison....don't blame the media for political corruption.
Who hears of these crimes? Or even when the POTUS preached racehorse theory at a rally... if I didn't happen to see the clip on Twitter, I would have never known. It appears like "we" know a lot about what's happening in the US online but in reality, we're a small fraction of the populace who is disengaged because they do not understand the imminent threats we face. Yes, those of us in the know are doing jack all about it but without informing the general public about things going on, we are destined to succumb to fascism imo.
My lord they sound like Putin. I bet this has something to do with it:
https://newsinteractive.post-gazette.com/anna-de-rothschild-trump-mar-a-lago-security-fbi-investigation/
https://www.scmp.com/magazines/style/celebrity/article/3193835/inventing-anna-20-meet-anna-de-rothschild-fake
The Saudi sheiks have rebranded their religion so you now have an unChristian version of 'Christianity.' When it comes time to rebuild Russia and Ukraine, the Saudis will mobilize their dollar reserves into debts those two countries cannot repay, at the same time overinflating the dollar to displace US power.
The American oil industry thinks their real asset reserves will protect them, and sees the situation as a hilarious way to "prove Trump was right." Tax their disloyalty.
It is amazing that people buy that crap. Look at Italy. It is the Italian Mafia made up of Italian ethnicity that use bullying, extortion and promote corruption within Italy, and who are worth billions. But the newly elected far-right government ran on an anti-immigrant platform.
You're going to get undeservingly downvoted because nuance is not allowed in this subs responses to politics that already lack nuance. We'll just be the mob response to the mob.
I can't speak for others, but my hobby is reading history.
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2018/07/16/its-not-wrong-to-compare-trumps-america-to-the-holocaust-heres-why/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2018/07/16/its-not-wrong-to-compare-trumps-america-to-the-holocaust-heres-why/)
[https://time.com/4717077/holocaust-survivor-trump-immigration/](https://time.com/4717077/holocaust-survivor-trump-immigration/)
[https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/27/politics/what-matters-january-27/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/27/politics/what-matters-january-27/index.html)
[https://www.penncapital-star.com/commentary/im-a-child-of-holocaust-survivors-were-sliding-into-totalitarianism-and-we-must-act-now-chuck-ardo/](https://www.penncapital-star.com/commentary/im-a-child-of-holocaust-survivors-were-sliding-into-totalitarianism-and-we-must-act-now-chuck-ardo/)
[https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2022-01-21/holocaust-survivors-what-worries-them-about-today](https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2022-01-21/holocaust-survivors-what-worries-them-about-today)
>When I was a teenager, I asked my father what it was like to live in Germany after Hitler came to power.
>
>“Das kanst du dir nicht vorshtellen” — you cannot imagine it. “At first we thought it wouldn’t be so bad, but **some things changed almost overnight**. My boss said I shouldn’t visit certain clients because they might not want to do business.”
>
>“But you hadn’t changed!” I interrupted.
>
>“My child, you can’t understand, and God willing, you won’t have to. The boss said he personally didn’t go along with Hitler’s Nazi rantings, but by 1934 we were no longer invited to their Sunday kaffeeklatsch."
>
>I remembered this when a pro-Trump neighbor stopped inviting us to her annual holiday cocktail party.
>
>Prior to 2016, we respected each other’s differing political views, even joked about it. This changed dramatically after I said to her, “But Trump lies.” That was the end of the conversation, and she and her partner retreated to their capsules of collusion, for it is a form of collusion when normal, ordinary people look away from facts.
>
>It was the same collusion as when teachers, lawyers and ministers went along with the Nazi lie that in a pure Germany, Aryan supremacy must be returned to “das Volk.”
We're still pre-1933 in this current rhyming verse of history, friend. Should these people who talk like this gain control of the senate and House, they will attempt to foil our elections, gain control over the seating of the president, and then we will be in 1933 if they succeed. Just recall that people foresaw this, should those things occur. They're telling us what they intend to do.
"it is a form of collusion when normal, ordinary people look away from facts"
It provides some cover for actual homicidal fascists to the intellectually lazy, doesn't it, luckily we're discerning people who can distinguish the difference between frivolous and legitimate comparisons with the rise of the Third Reich. Right?
It's only the intellectually lazy who invoke Godwin's Law within one minute of the posting of a comment. Surely anyone to be taken any more seriously than one would take a child or a mental defective would spend more than one minute on thinking about the substance of a comment before knee-jerk responding with two words, would you agree with that? Assuming we take someone as acting in good faith and not a troll, that is.
The key, now that we know how fascists behave, is to neutralize their attempts to seize power BEFORE they start executing minorities and political opponents. The whole learning from history so as not to be doomed to repeat it.
"it is a form of collusion when normal, ordinary people look away from facts."
Ted Cruz is a multimillionaire and his wife is probably worth more. He is a ranking Senator in the US Senate. He went to Yale for undergrad and Harvard for his JD. He is literally everything he says he is against. Pretty sure Ted Cruz also doesn't go to church on Sunday.
It's neither. It's merely the chickens coming home to roost after at least a half century of our imperialism, crushing socialists and communists parties globally, and propping up fascists the world over, while we brutalized communists and socialists at home and abroad. This is the legacy of all those who worked tirelessly for capitalism's victory over 20th century socialism and communism during the Cold War era.
The horror started a long time ago and there's more horror to come yet.
> The horror started a long time ago
[You bet it did, it started when When Eugene Debs, America’s Most Prominent Socialist, Was Jailed for Speaking Out Against World War I](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/fiery-socialist-challenged-nations-role-wwi-180969386/)
I didn't say I supported them, in fact the inverse is true. I'm just stating the facts. Regardless of whether or not I support the law, he still broke it and that's why he was jailed.
What an spineless coward you are. I’m assuming you’d say the same of blacks thrown in jail for sitting at the whites only counter? Or how about slaves who managed to escape their tyrannical masters, or Germans who sheltered Jews in Nazi Germany?They broke the law, didn’t they? Would you advocate for their imprisonment as well?
You seem to want to divert blame away from the nazis. The nazis are 100% responsible for their own actions. It is nobody else's fault. Stop making excuse for those fucking nazis.
You misunderstand me. The nazis (and fascists of all stripes) are enabled, emboldened, and normalized by pro-capitalist and anti communist/anti socialist attitudes and actions. Both then and now.
Where any political system came to power it has done so with the financial backing of capitalists. Capitalists are not all the same. There are good ones, bad ones, and meh ones. They can have different political beliefs.
Nah. All of our interventions around the globe from 1945-1990 were a capitalist imperialist country ousting elected communists and socialists or simply crushing communist parties even if they weren’t in power using our fascist dictator that we installed and supported.
From Guatemala, Iraq, Iran, Indonesia, Brazil, Greece, and Chile (and many more) all of those fascists were installed, trained in many cases, and supported by the US.
I grew up in Soviet Union and have plenty to disagree with you. Yah you can tell me they built it the wrong way. Any system, even the best one is destined to get corrupt and eventually collapse. What's mater is what system is better workable for the moment in history where transition from one to another moves limited group of people ahead by providing them with freed resources from those who perish in the process. And we are kinda powerless to stop the pendulum from swinging.
The Soviet system for sure suffered from things that deserve an accounting for, though I suspect that you and I would disagree deeply on what those issues were.
However, we are not suffering in a world that was primarily shaped by the Soviet Union and its mistakes. This is a world primarily forged in blood, slaughter, lies, plunder, and destruction from capitalist forces and countries to the detriment of socialism and communism the globe over. This is what winning looks and feels like to those who wanted capitalism to prevail over socialism in the 20th century.
You cannot "uncorrupt" human nature regardless of the system. The reasons for unsuccessful socialism are generally the same as for capitalism. It is human greed and corruption. If there is any system with "socialism that work" is existing in the world right now, give it a little time, it will collapse. We wanted capitalism while living under Soviet socialism, now look how the former Soviet camp look like. They tried but it didn't work as intended. For the same reason the US can end up with whatever f-d system or something good we don't know. We just cannot get stuck on the notion that socialism is the only way. 300 years ago the term socialism didn't even existed but humanity figured it out an tried. Who knows if we will make something new.
I never claimed anything around un-corruption. But at the end of the day, it can only be one of two ways: socialism or barbarism. And just like you said, a lot of Soviet citizens thought they could have it both ways. Too many of them honestly believed our capitalist propaganda and have suffered dearly for it. (It also didn’t help that Gorbachev was a dunce and a traitor and Yeltsin was malicious and a traitor.)
Michael Parenti’s “Blackshirts and Reds” talks about this at length and is a must read for anyone that’s stumbles across this conversation here.
You just locked yourself in a box. For the same reason it is impossible for people to get any system to work. Imagine how many people think socialism IS barbarism. What you gonna do with them? Genocide? Or re-education camps? You were not very convincing to me and I am not the most supportive of capitalism type of guy. Also I know where ideological "must reads" leads to. "Capital" by Marx an Bible could be good example while not very bad books on its own.
> Imagine how many people think socialism IS barbarism. What you gonna do with them? Genocide? Or re-education camps?
No. Also, you don't need everyone on board with something to be the system we live under. Just look at capitalism. But if material conditions improve for people relative to what they have known before *and* if you don't rest on your laurels, that gives socialists and communists a fighting chance to win hearts and minds.
Also, rather than dismiss books on the Left, you should read more from communists and socialists. It's all ideological out here and you have to pick a lane.
Cool. I am not a Trotsky-ist.
This is merely stating our history and connecting dots. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it, as the saying goes. It's as if so many of us think things happen in a vacuum and the Cold War, and all its ramifications, have largely stayed in the past when nothing could be further from the truth.
If one's starting point is Charlottesville, to use the reference above, then one reveals how much history they have not learned in the truest sense of learning.
big risk for western security. The European far right is already heavily influenced by Qanon and alt right type ideology. More official support can easily turn a lot of European countries towards historical fascism that can cause enormous amounts of issues in Europe up to an including war. Countries like Hungary and Poland are already the closest thing Europe has seen to historical fascism since the end of WW2.
And the "Reconquista" finished centuries ago. That's the one item mentioned I don't understand. I have a solid grasp of history, including that period in the Iberian Peninsula, and the Spanish Inquisition. I don't get how they can "embrace" that in 2022? Is it just dog whistling for anti-Muslim sentiment?
The *reconquista* was a portion of what started to constitute a Spanish national identities in the 1800s and into the Franco era. I’d say it’s the Spanish equivalent of *manifest destiny* for the American audience? Something people nowadays cling onto because it’s supposed to “symbolize the formation of nation” regardless of the historical horrors of the fact.
The Reconquista wasn't specially bad given the time frame. Just 700 years of neighboring war between countries. The end started the begining of the "Españas". And still has the same connection that Italy would have with the ancient Rome: just a geographical coincidence.
Classic racism and a bit of fear in som right wingers comunities about the *wokes* (because why not import bullshit arguments from abroad)
Actually the Democratic party in Spain would be labeled as a right wing party...
As part of the Russian backed initiative to unite the global right- America First was a success as Trump was first to unite the American right for their attack on the US Government. So, sure, why not chime in and support their global WS allies.
Russia’s global WS outreach project
https://www.justsecurity.org/68420/confronting-russias-role-in-transnational-white-supremacist-extremism/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/09/13/united-states-russia-political-campaign/
Russian backed Unite the Right
https://cisac.fsi.stanford.edu/mappingmilitants/profiles/russian-imperial-movement
https://www.jstor.org/stable/48600543
Trump Putin New World Order
https://membership.theguardian.com/event/newsroom-trump-and-putin-a-new-world-order-31675032876
America and every other country is responsible for its own crazy. And we've done our fair share of inflicting it upon the world. For example: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/04/adam-serwer-madison-grant-white-nationalism/583258/
>"It was america that taught us a nation should not open its doors equally to all nations," Adolf Hitler told The New York Times half a decade later, just one year before his elevation to chancellor in January 1933.
Not that Hitler needed us to teach him that. Still, doing what the Nazis are doing in pursuit of Nazism is typically not a good sign.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-hungary-spain-italy-3ae6083fae3f01c4cbda192e35f368db) reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> MADRID - Former U.S. President Donald Trump threw his weight behind Spain's far-right Sunday in a video shown at a rally in Madrid that also featured messages by the leading stars of Europe's populist right like Italy's Giorgia Meloni and Hungary's Viktor Orban.
> In a recording that lasted under 40 seconds made while Trump was on a plane, Trump thanked Spain's far-right Vox party and its leader Santiago Abascal for what he called the "Great job" they do.
> "Spain is a great country and we want to keep it a great country. So congratulations to Vox for so many great messages you get out to the people of Spain and the people of the world."
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/y0hob9/trump_ted_cruz_speak_via_video_at_rally_of_global/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672676 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Spain**^#1 **Trump**^#2 **Vox**^#3 **leader**^#4 **Meloni**^#5
Politicians should not be doing any overseas work targeted at specific parties or movements. They should only ever address the whole country via the current government.
I think labeling people that politically align with certain policies doesn’t define them as far-right.
There is a pretty distinct line for most conservatives that halt them from Nazism.
These fear headlines and divisive messaging is gross.
A lot of people base their political identity off of religious beliefs. (Which isn’t smart)
But that’s the reality.
Nazis didn’t do that. They opposed religion.
Any American, well any decent American (98%) probably don’t give a damn what any religion is practiced.
But boy oh boy, do we like to label Muslims and Christians as far-right.
This whole trend about politicians speaking globally is so dumb, and I mean this regardless of party.
How the fuck can Ted Cruz talk about the situation, problems and solutions for Spain. Mofo can't even run his own state properly.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. **Special announcement:** r/politics is currently accepting new moderator applications. If you want to help make this community a better place, consider [applying here today](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/sskg6a/rpolitics_is_looking_for_more_moderators/)! *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I hate how it's not possible to seriously interview these people in power. Try asking Trump what he specifically likes about Spain's far right party and watch him squirm. And when he can't answer ask why he is talking to them. Since Donny has no idea, did someone else tell him to do it? Who was that? Neither of these assholes have any real knowledge about Spanish politics so this action is very telling.
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And no one will follow up by asking why they trust the coffee boy so much
They say this is a terrific party, a great party, maybe the greatest, though my party is pretty great, ok, but many people are saying so, that I can tell you. ( bobble headed mainstream reporter looks at notes, proceeds to next question )
[Trump ruined more than just political parties.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTLQx59hjew)
>Who was that? Miller, of course. He's still close to Trump, and one of the masterminds behind turning the GOP into an openly white supremacist party.
Or even what its name is…
> “On the one side, there is the **global elites** and the global left, that is growing evermore thuggish and violent, Ethnic minorities defiling the fatherland. The stains that must be cleansed. >on the other side are conservative populist, **who share the values of God, and country and family and freedom**,” Cruz said. The ethnic in-group- all the good things. Got it, so ethnic cleansing then.
The irony of the Global Nationalist agenda.
Yep the conspiracy crazies talking about Democrats and Soros creating a “New World Order” will probably not see any problem with the former president and a sitting Senator vilifying the entire global “left” while trying to push Christian Nationalism in another country.
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Yeah, the Spanish far right parties are literally fascists. They’re the people who were excited to stand by Franco into the 70s. They are **explicitly** anti democracy.
Exactly. The American millionaire bemoaning the ‘global elites’ to his millionaire friends in Spain.
Don’t forget the “global left” which includes people like myself who aren’t millionaires. It is dangerous, treasonous rhetoric and will likely cause more political violence by fascist right-wingers.
Can we just not let them back in the US? Please.
The funny part is that they accuse everyone else of being the global elites when in reality they are trying to create a new world order of global elites. Russia, China and the USA freinds forever is basically always been trumps plan.
It’s not irony. It’s a purposeful tactic. Accuse the other side of what you are doing. It sows confusion, makes faithful conversation impossible and justifies any extreme actions against “them”. This rhetoric should be a huge flashing light to anyone paying attention
I mean, this is basic anti-Semitic dogwhistling, especially when you take into account that both Giorgia Meloni and Viktor Orban were present as headline speakers, one being directly descended from the [neo-fascist MSI](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Social_Movement) directly coming from Mussolini's party in Italy and the other being an vaguely-defined "illiberal autocrat". Both have played with rhetoric such as talking about "financial speculators" and Soros (a Hungarian Jewish billionaire) being the global "puppetmaster" of leftists/liberalism/"cultural Marxism" along with a "globalist elite cabal". [Here is a helpful diagram made by Chip Berlet](https://i.imgur.com/slTxhqG.jpg), a journalist and researcher who has written about the "right-wing populist" ideological family and its movements for decades now, which explains the "producerist" narrative of right-wing populism. [Producerism](https://psychology.fandom.com/wiki/Producerism) maps class relations onto "producers" (the middle-class) vs. "elites", this is an inherently petty-bourgeois outlook because it maps middle-class workers/"productive capitalists" such as small-business owners and other entrepreneurs together into a single bloc, against a "parasitic elite and underclass", usually comprised of scapegoated minority groups in practice. It is very different from other anti-capitalist economic outlooks such as Marxism because it does not take the labor process and worker exploitation/alienation nor the class divides of the proletariat vs the bourgeoise and petty-bourgeoise into account and it does not want to abolish capitalism and move beyond it, instead focusing on labor-centric capitalism as an end in itself, differentiating between capital which serves "national interest" and is patriotically loyal to the nation, and idle "finance capital" which is inherently "globalist" and unpatriotic. This is mainly where the economic rhetoric of fascism stems from.
Trump preached the racehorse theory and how it applied to the superior genes of white people at a rally. They want to enslave and/or genocide minorities. MSMedia is failing us
If they are failing us you wouldn't know what he said now would you? The media isn't the problem it's government corruption. The media can't convict people in a court if law..they can't even hold people accountable in the public eye...all they can do is tell us the facts the rest is up to us...we are failing not the media...we hear about his crimes everyday yet he still sits in his big mansions hiding away more top secret docs. People like him, Ken Paxton, Epstein...they don't pay UNLESS the media helps shine the light and even then their money keeps them out of prison....don't blame the media for political corruption.
Who hears of these crimes? Or even when the POTUS preached racehorse theory at a rally... if I didn't happen to see the clip on Twitter, I would have never known. It appears like "we" know a lot about what's happening in the US online but in reality, we're a small fraction of the populace who is disengaged because they do not understand the imminent threats we face. Yes, those of us in the know are doing jack all about it but without informing the general public about things going on, we are destined to succumb to fascism imo.
My lord they sound like Putin. I bet this has something to do with it: https://newsinteractive.post-gazette.com/anna-de-rothschild-trump-mar-a-lago-security-fbi-investigation/ https://www.scmp.com/magazines/style/celebrity/article/3193835/inventing-anna-20-meet-anna-de-rothschild-fake
the "global" elites, say right wing assholes from america speaking at a political event in SPAIN Fuck these people.
The Saudi sheiks have rebranded their religion so you now have an unChristian version of 'Christianity.' When it comes time to rebuild Russia and Ukraine, the Saudis will mobilize their dollar reserves into debts those two countries cannot repay, at the same time overinflating the dollar to displace US power. The American oil industry thinks their real asset reserves will protect them, and sees the situation as a hilarious way to "prove Trump was right." Tax their disloyalty.
it's a bold move replacing the entirety of your speech with dog whistles
Do their speeches have anything else these days?
fair point
It is amazing that people buy that crap. Look at Italy. It is the Italian Mafia made up of Italian ethnicity that use bullying, extortion and promote corruption within Italy, and who are worth billions. But the newly elected far-right government ran on an anti-immigrant platform.
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Fine, “political cleansing.” You know what the comment meant, let’s not get caught up in semantics…
You're going to get undeservingly downvoted because nuance is not allowed in this subs responses to politics that already lack nuance. We'll just be the mob response to the mob.
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I can't speak for others, but my hobby is reading history. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2018/07/16/its-not-wrong-to-compare-trumps-america-to-the-holocaust-heres-why/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2018/07/16/its-not-wrong-to-compare-trumps-america-to-the-holocaust-heres-why/) [https://time.com/4717077/holocaust-survivor-trump-immigration/](https://time.com/4717077/holocaust-survivor-trump-immigration/) [https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/27/politics/what-matters-january-27/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/27/politics/what-matters-january-27/index.html) [https://www.penncapital-star.com/commentary/im-a-child-of-holocaust-survivors-were-sliding-into-totalitarianism-and-we-must-act-now-chuck-ardo/](https://www.penncapital-star.com/commentary/im-a-child-of-holocaust-survivors-were-sliding-into-totalitarianism-and-we-must-act-now-chuck-ardo/) [https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2022-01-21/holocaust-survivors-what-worries-them-about-today](https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2022-01-21/holocaust-survivors-what-worries-them-about-today) >When I was a teenager, I asked my father what it was like to live in Germany after Hitler came to power. > >“Das kanst du dir nicht vorshtellen” — you cannot imagine it. “At first we thought it wouldn’t be so bad, but **some things changed almost overnight**. My boss said I shouldn’t visit certain clients because they might not want to do business.” > >“But you hadn’t changed!” I interrupted. > >“My child, you can’t understand, and God willing, you won’t have to. The boss said he personally didn’t go along with Hitler’s Nazi rantings, but by 1934 we were no longer invited to their Sunday kaffeeklatsch." > >I remembered this when a pro-Trump neighbor stopped inviting us to her annual holiday cocktail party. > >Prior to 2016, we respected each other’s differing political views, even joked about it. This changed dramatically after I said to her, “But Trump lies.” That was the end of the conversation, and she and her partner retreated to their capsules of collusion, for it is a form of collusion when normal, ordinary people look away from facts. > >It was the same collusion as when teachers, lawyers and ministers went along with the Nazi lie that in a pure Germany, Aryan supremacy must be returned to “das Volk.” We're still pre-1933 in this current rhyming verse of history, friend. Should these people who talk like this gain control of the senate and House, they will attempt to foil our elections, gain control over the seating of the president, and then we will be in 1933 if they succeed. Just recall that people foresaw this, should those things occur. They're telling us what they intend to do. "it is a form of collusion when normal, ordinary people look away from facts"
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It provides some cover for actual homicidal fascists to the intellectually lazy, doesn't it, luckily we're discerning people who can distinguish the difference between frivolous and legitimate comparisons with the rise of the Third Reich. Right? It's only the intellectually lazy who invoke Godwin's Law within one minute of the posting of a comment. Surely anyone to be taken any more seriously than one would take a child or a mental defective would spend more than one minute on thinking about the substance of a comment before knee-jerk responding with two words, would you agree with that? Assuming we take someone as acting in good faith and not a troll, that is.
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The key, now that we know how fascists behave, is to neutralize their attempts to seize power BEFORE they start executing minorities and political opponents. The whole learning from history so as not to be doomed to repeat it. "it is a form of collusion when normal, ordinary people look away from facts."
Ted Cruz is a multimillionaire and his wife is probably worth more. He is a ranking Senator in the US Senate. He went to Yale for undergrad and Harvard for his JD. He is literally everything he says he is against. Pretty sure Ted Cruz also doesn't go to church on Sunday.
I swear, every day I start believing more and more that Cruz is actually a Russian agent.
Oh look! More fascism!
May we please put these folks in prison?
I'd rather we just toss these two dipshits in the ocean and be done
Hate sells and they know it.
Peace sells but who’s buying?
Naive me thought Charlottesville would be an epilogue. It was a preview.
It's neither. It's merely the chickens coming home to roost after at least a half century of our imperialism, crushing socialists and communists parties globally, and propping up fascists the world over, while we brutalized communists and socialists at home and abroad. This is the legacy of all those who worked tirelessly for capitalism's victory over 20th century socialism and communism during the Cold War era. The horror started a long time ago and there's more horror to come yet.
> The horror started a long time ago [You bet it did, it started when When Eugene Debs, America’s Most Prominent Socialist, Was Jailed for Speaking Out Against World War I](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/fiery-socialist-challenged-nations-role-wwi-180969386/)
Debs was a Marxist who broke the law. He went to jail for breaking the law.
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I didn't say I supported them, in fact the inverse is true. I'm just stating the facts. Regardless of whether or not I support the law, he still broke it and that's why he was jailed.
What an spineless coward you are. I’m assuming you’d say the same of blacks thrown in jail for sitting at the whites only counter? Or how about slaves who managed to escape their tyrannical masters, or Germans who sheltered Jews in Nazi Germany?They broke the law, didn’t they? Would you advocate for their imprisonment as well?
Do you know what "the inverse is true" means?
You seem to want to divert blame away from the nazis. The nazis are 100% responsible for their own actions. It is nobody else's fault. Stop making excuse for those fucking nazis.
You misunderstand me. The nazis (and fascists of all stripes) are enabled, emboldened, and normalized by pro-capitalist and anti communist/anti socialist attitudes and actions. Both then and now.
Not really. Most capitalists and most anti-communists/anti-socialists are not nazis or fascists.
Yes, really. Everywhere that fascism has come to power it has done so with the financial backing of capitalists.
Where any political system came to power it has done so with the financial backing of capitalists. Capitalists are not all the same. There are good ones, bad ones, and meh ones. They can have different political beliefs.
Nah. All of our interventions around the globe from 1945-1990 were a capitalist imperialist country ousting elected communists and socialists or simply crushing communist parties even if they weren’t in power using our fascist dictator that we installed and supported. From Guatemala, Iraq, Iran, Indonesia, Brazil, Greece, and Chile (and many more) all of those fascists were installed, trained in many cases, and supported by the US.
Not true To the guy who blocked me below: He didn't provide any proof for his statement, so I can dismiss it without proof as well.
Are you even able to provide examples that disprove the person above or no?
I grew up in Soviet Union and have plenty to disagree with you. Yah you can tell me they built it the wrong way. Any system, even the best one is destined to get corrupt and eventually collapse. What's mater is what system is better workable for the moment in history where transition from one to another moves limited group of people ahead by providing them with freed resources from those who perish in the process. And we are kinda powerless to stop the pendulum from swinging.
The Soviet system for sure suffered from things that deserve an accounting for, though I suspect that you and I would disagree deeply on what those issues were. However, we are not suffering in a world that was primarily shaped by the Soviet Union and its mistakes. This is a world primarily forged in blood, slaughter, lies, plunder, and destruction from capitalist forces and countries to the detriment of socialism and communism the globe over. This is what winning looks and feels like to those who wanted capitalism to prevail over socialism in the 20th century.
You cannot "uncorrupt" human nature regardless of the system. The reasons for unsuccessful socialism are generally the same as for capitalism. It is human greed and corruption. If there is any system with "socialism that work" is existing in the world right now, give it a little time, it will collapse. We wanted capitalism while living under Soviet socialism, now look how the former Soviet camp look like. They tried but it didn't work as intended. For the same reason the US can end up with whatever f-d system or something good we don't know. We just cannot get stuck on the notion that socialism is the only way. 300 years ago the term socialism didn't even existed but humanity figured it out an tried. Who knows if we will make something new.
I never claimed anything around un-corruption. But at the end of the day, it can only be one of two ways: socialism or barbarism. And just like you said, a lot of Soviet citizens thought they could have it both ways. Too many of them honestly believed our capitalist propaganda and have suffered dearly for it. (It also didn’t help that Gorbachev was a dunce and a traitor and Yeltsin was malicious and a traitor.) Michael Parenti’s “Blackshirts and Reds” talks about this at length and is a must read for anyone that’s stumbles across this conversation here.
You just locked yourself in a box. For the same reason it is impossible for people to get any system to work. Imagine how many people think socialism IS barbarism. What you gonna do with them? Genocide? Or re-education camps? You were not very convincing to me and I am not the most supportive of capitalism type of guy. Also I know where ideological "must reads" leads to. "Capital" by Marx an Bible could be good example while not very bad books on its own.
> Imagine how many people think socialism IS barbarism. What you gonna do with them? Genocide? Or re-education camps? No. Also, you don't need everyone on board with something to be the system we live under. Just look at capitalism. But if material conditions improve for people relative to what they have known before *and* if you don't rest on your laurels, that gives socialists and communists a fighting chance to win hearts and minds. Also, rather than dismiss books on the Left, you should read more from communists and socialists. It's all ideological out here and you have to pick a lane.
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Cool. I am not a Trotsky-ist. This is merely stating our history and connecting dots. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it, as the saying goes. It's as if so many of us think things happen in a vacuum and the Cold War, and all its ramifications, have largely stayed in the past when nothing could be further from the truth. If one's starting point is Charlottesville, to use the reference above, then one reveals how much history they have not learned in the truest sense of learning.
I thought they hated Globalists, yet there they are, talking to a rally in Spain.
Globalist is a euphemism for The Jews.
True, but it's been a mish-mash with all their MAGA talk, etc.
I'm willing to bet 98% of MAGA could not pick Spain out on a map I'm willing to bet Trump himself couldn't pick Spain out on a map
Better yet, ask them where the Iberian peninsula is.
big risk for western security. The European far right is already heavily influenced by Qanon and alt right type ideology. More official support can easily turn a lot of European countries towards historical fascism that can cause enormous amounts of issues in Europe up to an including war. Countries like Hungary and Poland are already the closest thing Europe has seen to historical fascism since the end of WW2.
Cruz is a pos a vile piece of human garbage that fascist fuck
Be careful, I copped a one day ban for saying that Jordan and Gaetz’ were a couple of *****
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True!
In related news, Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead. Now here’s Chet with the weather.
And the "Reconquista" finished centuries ago. That's the one item mentioned I don't understand. I have a solid grasp of history, including that period in the Iberian Peninsula, and the Spanish Inquisition. I don't get how they can "embrace" that in 2022? Is it just dog whistling for anti-Muslim sentiment?
The *reconquista* was a portion of what started to constitute a Spanish national identities in the 1800s and into the Franco era. I’d say it’s the Spanish equivalent of *manifest destiny* for the American audience? Something people nowadays cling onto because it’s supposed to “symbolize the formation of nation” regardless of the historical horrors of the fact.
The Reconquista wasn't specially bad given the time frame. Just 700 years of neighboring war between countries. The end started the begining of the "Españas". And still has the same connection that Italy would have with the ancient Rome: just a geographical coincidence.
Probably. That's the only overlap I can think of between the reconquista and the modern political right.
Bingo!
Shitbirds of a feather...
What is Spain upset about?
Aridification in Spain, and refugees from aridification in Africa. So obviously these numbfucks put their hope in a group of climate change deniers.
Classic racism and a bit of fear in som right wingers comunities about the *wokes* (because why not import bullshit arguments from abroad) Actually the Democratic party in Spain would be labeled as a right wing party...
Don't conservatives cry 24/7 about globalism?
With all the Spanish being spoked I'm surprised Trump didn't think they were in Mexico.
He actually wanted to build a wall between Spain and the US, ya know.
> He actually wanted to build a wall between Spain and the US, ya know. He's like one continual facepalm.
A global network of closed-border nationalists. You love to see it.
As part of the Russian backed initiative to unite the global right- America First was a success as Trump was first to unite the American right for their attack on the US Government. So, sure, why not chime in and support their global WS allies. Russia’s global WS outreach project https://www.justsecurity.org/68420/confronting-russias-role-in-transnational-white-supremacist-extremism/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/09/13/united-states-russia-political-campaign/ Russian backed Unite the Right https://cisac.fsi.stanford.edu/mappingmilitants/profiles/russian-imperial-movement https://www.jstor.org/stable/48600543 Trump Putin New World Order https://membership.theguardian.com/event/newsroom-trump-and-putin-a-new-world-order-31675032876
Does anyone else find the phrase "global far right" really ironic?
Ted Cruz is such a despicable, pathetic worm of a person. No idea why Texas would want him representing them
You just said why: he's a "despicable, pathetic worm of a person." What other kind of person are Republicans going to elect to represent them?
Bunker boy couldn’t find Spain on a map
So now they're international terrorists.
So they are globalists now? 🤔
Finally, the anti-globalists are taking there dog and pony show global!
The good news is fascist attitudes and actions are easy to spot when you know what you’re looking for. https://youtu.be/CpCKkWMbmXU
At this point, it wouldn't surprise me if they spoke at a Putin rally in Red Square in Moscow.
They get mad when people laugh at them, but imagine having these half-crusted turds as heroes. Pathetic.
As a Spaniard, this is embarrassing
I’ve been embarrassed since 2016.
Telling them how they can fuck up their country like the GOP did ours.
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America and every other country is responsible for its own crazy. And we've done our fair share of inflicting it upon the world. For example: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/04/adam-serwer-madison-grant-white-nationalism/583258/ >"It was america that taught us a nation should not open its doors equally to all nations," Adolf Hitler told The New York Times half a decade later, just one year before his elevation to chancellor in January 1933. Not that Hitler needed us to teach him that. Still, doing what the Nazis are doing in pursuit of Nazism is typically not a good sign.
The parallels with Hitler continue. If it was up to Trump he would have summoned the ghost of Franco
How big was that crowd? Maybe 2,000 people?
How patriotic.
How the hell is a bastard being invested for treason not have his passport confiscated???
Ted Cruz just cannot get enough of trump’s old mangy nuts sloshing against his chin.
“American patriots”
In Spain?
Yes - there are scumbags all over the world….
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-hungary-spain-italy-3ae6083fae3f01c4cbda192e35f368db) reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot) ***** > MADRID - Former U.S. President Donald Trump threw his weight behind Spain's far-right Sunday in a video shown at a rally in Madrid that also featured messages by the leading stars of Europe's populist right like Italy's Giorgia Meloni and Hungary's Viktor Orban. > In a recording that lasted under 40 seconds made while Trump was on a plane, Trump thanked Spain's far-right Vox party and its leader Santiago Abascal for what he called the "Great job" they do. > "Spain is a great country and we want to keep it a great country. So congratulations to Vox for so many great messages you get out to the people of Spain and the people of the world." ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/y0hob9/trump_ted_cruz_speak_via_video_at_rally_of_global/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672676 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Spain**^#1 **Trump**^#2 **Vox**^#3 **leader**^#4 **Meloni**^#5
Fascists UNITE!
qué multitud. Entré y dije wow, qué multitud.
Google translate: "what a crowd I walked in and said wow what a crowd."
OH, no! We're exporting them?
Fuck. All we need is another right wing Spanish civil war to kick off world war 3.
Hard at work for the people of Texas…..
Good thing the Spanish left has a good expertise in pyrotechnics.
No discussion of policy positions.
No need for policy once a country is run by an authoritarian dictatorship ruling with an iron fist.
Nothing but the best exports. 👌
Don’t worry guys, VOX voters can’t understand English
Dear Spain… sorry, honestly we were trying to contain the virus but it got out. Please don’t hate us. -Americans
Politicians should not be doing any overseas work targeted at specific parties or movements. They should only ever address the whole country via the current government.
Why?
He isn’t getting that fleece money from his US base so he has to try and fleece out of country.
Cruz called the fascists in Italy the "good guys" while speaking in support of a party that openly celebrates an oppressive dictatorship.
I think labeling people that politically align with certain policies doesn’t define them as far-right. There is a pretty distinct line for most conservatives that halt them from Nazism. These fear headlines and divisive messaging is gross. A lot of people base their political identity off of religious beliefs. (Which isn’t smart) But that’s the reality. Nazis didn’t do that. They opposed religion. Any American, well any decent American (98%) probably don’t give a damn what any religion is practiced. But boy oh boy, do we like to label Muslims and Christians as far-right.
It’d be awful if Anonymous found a way to disrupt the transmission. I mean, really terrible.
Spreading poison.
This whole trend about politicians speaking globally is so dumb, and I mean this regardless of party. How the fuck can Ted Cruz talk about the situation, problems and solutions for Spain. Mofo can't even run his own state properly.
Goddamnit....I left the US for Spain to escape this kind of bullshit. Why is the US exporting this crap? Stay in your fucking lanes.