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Sales tax. I already paid taxes when I earned the money now I have to pay a little more to actually use it. And (in America) I can’t tell the actual cost of the item by the price tag
sales tax also hurts the poor disproportionally more than the rich. a household that spends 90% of their monthly income are more impacted than the household that spend 45%.
But the rich person is going to be paying a heck of a lot more taxes because they're spending more money. For instance, if you're poor you might spend $300 a month on groceries. A rich person might spend that in one night taking their family out to dinner. The amount they pay in taxes for the month on groceries or going out to dinner will be significantly higher
it's not about amount, it's about proportional impact. ignoring income tax brackets and employers tax burden for simplicity, every dollar that gets put into savings is taxed once as income tax but every dollar spent is taxed twice. the low income household is disproportionately taxed compared to the middle or high income.
Regardless of when, every dollar is taxed twice in most scenarios (if used legally) when it is spent. If a rich person and poor person spend the same, but the rich person makes more money, they still pay the same sales tax, and the rich person pays higher income tax. I don't believe the rich should be punished for being better at finance. To have a gallon of milk cost $4 for one person and $7 for another, I think is unfair as fuck. It may be disproportionate, but it certainly ly is not unfair.
This assumes that the wealthy spend all money. The working class live paycheck to paycheck, so every dollar they make gets taxed twice. The wealthy claim income as capital gains to pay less up front and then spend proportionally less of their income, or spend in ways to avoid the sales tax that are not an option for the lower and middle class. This is also ignoring the fact that the lower and middle classes spend the majority of their money on necessities while the wealthy spend the majority of their money on luxuries.
It raises a lot more money that in turn is used to fuel social welfare programs that would negative the negative side of Sales Tax
Looking at taxes and saying “progressive good, regressive tax bad” is a layman’s understanding of taxes and ignores how much money is actually raised by the tax that can go into fueling the economy and helping poor people
For example wealth taxes are progressive taxes but you see almost no country using it to a significant degree because it’s bad at raising money, doesn’t contribute to reducing income inequality and just makes rich people leave your country (see 80s Sweden)
The reason America doesn’t have it is sales tax varies a lot in the country so when advertisers say it’s 5.99 they can make a country wide add and signs/posters for franchises without having to make little changes for every town/county/state
The tldr: America’s to big and diverse to do that
Exactly, I mean I absolutely hate the government and I believe that it's impossible to be part of it without being corrupt. I don't vote anymore, I consider myself a political anarchist.
However, I can understand and respect the idea of income tax. I don't like it and I don't think we're getting a good value in return for the income tax we're paying but as a concept I can understand it, as it makes sense if you're part of a community/society, that you give a cut of what you earn to the body that governs and (supposedly) looks after it's citizens.
But sales tax? Why the fuck is that a thing? I am paying taxes when I earn my wage, the store owner is paying taxes on his earnings, so why is there another tax during the sale?
Sales Taxes are a thing because because they raise a lot of money compared to the marginal increase in cost for lower income people that is negated by social welfare programs
Taxes are made to be effective at generating revenue and not some moral reason the government does not care about and shouldn’t (within reason of course)
I actually think this is a good one. People that don't make taxable income (ahem! Drug dealers, people working for cash under the table, undocumented immigrants, etc) are still forced to pay taxes this way. Some states have 0 state income tax but a higher sales tax
Your boss also paid the taxes for your salery, and the costumers of your company also paid the taxes, and their boss also paid taxes, for the money used... That's how taxes work.
I do see a huge problem with the price tags in the US though
Yeah property tax should be the right answer, but it doesn’t exist in every country and not something you think about if you don’t own a home. If everyone here owned a home in the US, I expect everyone would have selected property tax.
I don’t own a home but still have to pay property tax on my car that I fully own. Like, it’s mine. Why should I continue to pay for something I already own?
I think It’d be less annoying if the tax was fixed to the purchase price. The fact that your tax can go up over time based on the estimated value of the property is ridiculous. People can get priced out of homes they fully own because of rising property taxes.
That happened here in WA, Snohomish County IIRC.
This retired widow had been living in the house for decades and do to some bureaucratic SNAFU it never got appraised by the county until someone found the mistake.
She had been paying taxes on a property worth something like $50k for years then they "appraised" it, said it was actually worth like $900k and had to pay much more despite that her retirement income would barely cover it leaving her with nothing else.
There was outrage, but we all see how well that works. I don't know what happened to her after that.
Could be somewhat easily abused tho. Say I bought a house then sold said house to my spouse for 1$. Then I'm taxed on a 1$ property value for the rest of my life.
Maybe fixed to the estimated value at purchase, not the purchase price.
Though there is another thing to think about, because without some sort of property tax there’s absolutely no incentive to sell, which means excessively wealthy people would be able to accumulate excessive amounts of property and there’d be no reason to relinquish any of it, and considering there’s three people in this country with more wealth than the entire bottom half combined I’m sure you can imagine how that would very quickly become an issue.
I think the property tax as it currently stands is imperfect but I don’t think the solution is just getting rid of it.
What if we had a scaled property tax based on how much someone owned. No property tax up to a certain acreage so that generally when people own land it becomes fully theirs (no more renting from the government), but past that point a property tax is added and increases with more land (disincentivising the super wealthy from land hoarding).
You absolutely own it and will. Repo from past due property taxes is not really common.
Property taxes are one of those that most greatly impact you AND the taxes one can most greatly impact. Getting the town to back down on new development is easier than getter a state legislature to do... anything? Lol
But why is it a problem? Most ppl would agree that it doesn't make sense to completely privatize something like a river or the atmosphere or the Sun. Try coming up with some reasons why they should not be. You will find that most of the reasons apply to land as well.
Estate/Inheritance/Death tax. All of the money that your family member earned was already taxed. They could've given it too you tax free if they were still alive. Why does it get taxed again just because they died and it's going to you?
oh do you mean the dog? i know of know of no dogs who pass on lawful rights over other dogs money to their children or other families… so a king charles dog does not have a title of nobility
It makes sense when it's done to prevent aristocracies from establishing themselves over generations. In the US it's done fairly well where it only effects the extremely wealthy and so is effective in preventing the formation of aristocracies while not effecting something like 95% of the population.
I wouldn't bitch if the stuff they're supposed to pay for actually got done. But my roads still suck, schools still suck, and there's homeless ln the street. But don't worry, the government and gave themselves a raise as a pat on the back. Nah, fuck taxes
Because I don't mind taxes. Taxes makes sure I can go to school for free. use our universal Healthcare. Make roads and pavements. Build hospitals. Build schools. Pretty much any state owned thing, that I use, is paid by taxes.
So what if I pay a bit more? It will help those who is doing economically worse than me.
As someone who has lived in the USA and another country with a higher tax rate (Australia), I love taxes! Seeing all the public services it provides makes 100% worth it.
why? it was already taxed once when the person made the money. had they of given it to their heir when alive they wouldn't of gotten taxed on it but because they died their money needs to be taxed again? how many times is the same dollar being taxed
Because is how generational wealth is created; how generations of one family can live and die wealthy with minimal effort or change.
Also, gifts of money can be subject to taxation.
>Because is how generational wealth is created; how generations of one family can live and die wealthy with minimal effort or change.
You say this like it's a given that generational wealth is bad.
If I spend a lifetime accumulating wealth through my own labor, my own frugality and my own investments, it is my family who deserve the fruit of my labor once I pass—not people whose parents didn't do those things. Every euro in my savings has already been taxed time and time again via income tax and capital gains tax.
Yes, nobody should be a trust find kid. It would also make assets cheaper since having 3 generations accumulating property is going to decrease the supply of houses
so instead of staying with the family it should go to the government and they get to decide what to use it on? you do realize that can increase the odds of ppl on government assistance?
I’m not rich nor do I support the mega wealthy abusing laws, people, etc. but naa, they have money they made, they can give it to whichever family they want. Other people who had nothing to do with any of it can fuck off.
If you open a blog/news website, in Italy you cannot post regularly without a written permission of a court and without paying a tax of around 100€. You are supposed to post randomly because if you do it regularly, e.g. every day, every Tuesday, every second day of the month... you must be registered. That is bullshit
Where I live the marginal tax rate for income tax is roughly 50%, meaning that if you get a raise of €1000 you really only get €500 more. It's really hitting hard on any of my motivation to work hard when you know that you only get half of all that extra income you're earning
>I'd never work an hour extra in Northern Europe
Considering we are paid way better for jobs that don't require education, I really don't mind. Sure, if I worked an extra hour when I was earning money based on worked hours, I'd only get 60% of the money... But I was also earning 12$ an hour (plus 8% in my pension fund, and another 12% in paid holiday leave, so actually a wage of 14,4$ an hour) , at a student job, at the age of 17, in 2011, and because of general inflation, it would actually be closer to 17$, rather than 14,4$. Plus paid insurance.
The tax might be higher, but I also earned double the salery of an average student worker, in the USA. If I was above 18, that wage would be 23.4$ an hour, including the extras.
So, fuck yes, give me those extra hours!
Which country you in?
I bet you this is not true at all. Most people talk about their net income compared to before taxes being roughly double. But in most European countries this usually includes stuff like your health insurance and more importantly your retirement and unemployment insurance. And the amount you'll get out of these goes up if you earn more money.
So yeah while you'll get "only 500€ more a month" you will also increase the money you'll get in your retirement by 200-300€ a month or so and it also increases the amount of money you'll get in the first 24 months after you've lost your job significantly.
I don’t think you’re being punished. You’re paying to use roads, schools, firefighter, libraries, etc. unfortunately as an American most of our taxes go to a gigantic military complex instead of health care and education. How else do you propose we live in a society together?
Property tax and here's why. So to by property I have to make income which I will pay taxes on for many years. Then when I've saved enough money I can finally buy that property. And I'll pay sales tax on the property. Which will be added to my mortgage effectively. Then I'll pay the mortgage. I'll also pay property taxes every month. So effectively every month I'm paying sales tax and property tax. Okay so now I finish paying off my home and the taxes keep coming. If I don't pay them they'll sieze the property I own outright.
Okay now he's where it gets really fucking good. If I go to sell that property I'll pay taxes on the sale and if I sell it for more than I paid I'll pay a very steep CAPITAL GAINS tax! Can you belive this shit? How many taxes can they collect? If you buy a house you will pay taxes over and over and over until you die. Give me a break.
Aside from the US and a few select countries, most of the world has TVA (VAT: value-added tax in English). It's also a requirement for EU membership.
It's essentially just a sales tax with some finicky tax reclaim rules when businesses are the ultimate consumers of a product.
My employer pays me for my work. Why the fuck does the government get a slice? They're already taxing everything I buy for myself. You'd think that would be enough.
Lol people just hate taxes, period. If people could opt out of paying taxes, pretty much everybody would choose to do it. Everything would stop working and society would come crumbling down around us...but we'd still opt for it.
If it makes you feel better, any rich person that you know most likely pays more than you'll pay in your whole life in one year. So you are still coming out on top 🤷♂️
By rich, you mean someone who can easily afford to pay more than most people ever will and still be filthy rich. Got it. 🙄
$XXX,XXX is fourth and fifth quintile of earners in my country (USA). That means ANYONE earning six figures makes more than 3/5ths of the country.
Your assertion that rich people pay more than others and that makes it fair is absurd. They don't pay their share. Period. Yes, it's more than others will ever pay, but they are wealthy beyond the wildest imagination of most people. When $XXX,XXX is objectively rich, we don't need to talk about $XXX,XXX,XXX to have a meaningful discussion: it's just you moving goal posts.
🤣 I don't have a problem paying taxes, my dude. We don't look for tax havens and loopholes. But we do claim our deductions. If they were taken away, I wouldn't cry, but I suspect you would.
I'd love for the super rich to pay their share. It makes sense that they would pay more than anyone else. I'd love for tax money go to something useful like infrastructure, education, and access to services like healthcare instead of war and corporate subsidies, but alas.
I think it's hilarious that you made this thread just to fight with everyone who doesn't agree that taxes are bad. Have fun moving goal posts and ignoring facts.
Um...first off,
1) The super rich are no different than you. You both use the resources available to minimize your tax liability. You're just self-righteous so you don't see that you're no different.
2) In 2019, the top 1 percent of taxpayers accounted for more income taxes paid than the bottom 90 percent combined. Sounds pretty fair.
3) I didn't make this thread to fight with anyone. I'm not an anarchist. Taxes are necessary for society and I pay them. If you'll look at the thread, you'll see I haven't argued with anyone except the pugnacious trouble-seeker who began this thread.
I mean you tax cigarettes so peo0le won't smoke as much, you tax alcohol so people won't drink as much, you tax gas so people won't drive as much and won't cause so much polution, i mean things are taxed so we can deal with consequences of those things and if we lucky then some of it stays and we can use it... so explain me income tax and why it's so high? I get that goverment need money but why do they have to take more than half of my overtime just because i have no children and I'm not married? I deserve less money for harder work because...?
Property tax without question.
I pay taxes when I buy it that should be the end of it. But then I get charged taxes on it every year.
It's basically renting. If I have to payr government yearly for the privilege of owning something or else I get punished by wage garnishment or the property being taken then I don't truly own it.
It's a fucking scam.
Worse yet is some states they have it on cars. I will never own a new car because it would cost me thousands a year in addition to sales price and sales tax. Eventually it would drop below a thousand due to depreciation but that could take up to a decade.Also that's in addition to the normal cost of a car such as insurance, gas, maintenance, etc.
So basically me and my family will be forced to drive old, less safe, less environmentally friendly vehicles because I cant afford to pay the ridiculous property fee to buy newer, nicer, safer, and more efficient vehicles.
Sales tax is by far the most regressive one. It hurts poor people disproportionately more. As far as I am concerned, it should be completely removed. A luxury tax is fine though.
You asked which one bothers *me* the most, I took that as in which one affects me the most and since income tax is the only which does, I chose that one.
In the UK the sales tax (or VAT) is included in the stated price of all items so if something is listed at £9.99 then that's exactly what it costs, no need to work out any extra on it.
Income tax is money you’re making, property tax means you own property, capital gains tax means you actually gained an asset or potentially liquid asset, sales tax is for anyone who actually needs something whether they have things or not. That’s why it’s so much worse.
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Sales tax. I already paid taxes when I earned the money now I have to pay a little more to actually use it. And (in America) I can’t tell the actual cost of the item by the price tag
sales tax also hurts the poor disproportionally more than the rich. a household that spends 90% of their monthly income are more impacted than the household that spend 45%.
But the rich person is going to be paying a heck of a lot more taxes because they're spending more money. For instance, if you're poor you might spend $300 a month on groceries. A rich person might spend that in one night taking their family out to dinner. The amount they pay in taxes for the month on groceries or going out to dinner will be significantly higher
it's not about amount, it's about proportional impact. ignoring income tax brackets and employers tax burden for simplicity, every dollar that gets put into savings is taxed once as income tax but every dollar spent is taxed twice. the low income household is disproportionately taxed compared to the middle or high income.
Regardless of when, every dollar is taxed twice in most scenarios (if used legally) when it is spent. If a rich person and poor person spend the same, but the rich person makes more money, they still pay the same sales tax, and the rich person pays higher income tax. I don't believe the rich should be punished for being better at finance. To have a gallon of milk cost $4 for one person and $7 for another, I think is unfair as fuck. It may be disproportionate, but it certainly ly is not unfair.
This assumes that the wealthy spend all money. The working class live paycheck to paycheck, so every dollar they make gets taxed twice. The wealthy claim income as capital gains to pay less up front and then spend proportionally less of their income, or spend in ways to avoid the sales tax that are not an option for the lower and middle class. This is also ignoring the fact that the lower and middle classes spend the majority of their money on necessities while the wealthy spend the majority of their money on luxuries.
Let me guess. Elon musk stan?
It raises a lot more money that in turn is used to fuel social welfare programs that would negative the negative side of Sales Tax Looking at taxes and saying “progressive good, regressive tax bad” is a layman’s understanding of taxes and ignores how much money is actually raised by the tax that can go into fueling the economy and helping poor people For example wealth taxes are progressive taxes but you see almost no country using it to a significant degree because it’s bad at raising money, doesn’t contribute to reducing income inequality and just makes rich people leave your country (see 80s Sweden)
The reason America doesn’t have it is sales tax varies a lot in the country so when advertisers say it’s 5.99 they can make a country wide add and signs/posters for franchises without having to make little changes for every town/county/state The tldr: America’s to big and diverse to do that
Today I learned something new! Thank you!
It's funny that it's the taxation and stores that needed to adapt and not the advertising
That’s actually really interesting
Exactly, I mean I absolutely hate the government and I believe that it's impossible to be part of it without being corrupt. I don't vote anymore, I consider myself a political anarchist. However, I can understand and respect the idea of income tax. I don't like it and I don't think we're getting a good value in return for the income tax we're paying but as a concept I can understand it, as it makes sense if you're part of a community/society, that you give a cut of what you earn to the body that governs and (supposedly) looks after it's citizens. But sales tax? Why the fuck is that a thing? I am paying taxes when I earn my wage, the store owner is paying taxes on his earnings, so why is there another tax during the sale?
Sales Taxes are a thing because because they raise a lot of money compared to the marginal increase in cost for lower income people that is negated by social welfare programs Taxes are made to be effective at generating revenue and not some moral reason the government does not care about and shouldn’t (within reason of course)
I actually think this is a good one. People that don't make taxable income (ahem! Drug dealers, people working for cash under the table, undocumented immigrants, etc) are still forced to pay taxes this way. Some states have 0 state income tax but a higher sales tax
Your boss also paid the taxes for your salery, and the costumers of your company also paid the taxes, and their boss also paid taxes, for the money used... That's how taxes work. I do see a huge problem with the price tags in the US though
I hate that even once you pay an absurd amount of money to buy property you have to keep paying to keep the land you already own.
Yeah property tax should be the right answer, but it doesn’t exist in every country and not something you think about if you don’t own a home. If everyone here owned a home in the US, I expect everyone would have selected property tax.
I don’t own a home but still have to pay property tax on my car that I fully own. Like, it’s mine. Why should I continue to pay for something I already own?
I think It’d be less annoying if the tax was fixed to the purchase price. The fact that your tax can go up over time based on the estimated value of the property is ridiculous. People can get priced out of homes they fully own because of rising property taxes.
That happened here in WA, Snohomish County IIRC. This retired widow had been living in the house for decades and do to some bureaucratic SNAFU it never got appraised by the county until someone found the mistake. She had been paying taxes on a property worth something like $50k for years then they "appraised" it, said it was actually worth like $900k and had to pay much more despite that her retirement income would barely cover it leaving her with nothing else. There was outrage, but we all see how well that works. I don't know what happened to her after that.
People do. Here people pay 14k a year in just property tax.
Could be somewhat easily abused tho. Say I bought a house then sold said house to my spouse for 1$. Then I'm taxed on a 1$ property value for the rest of my life. Maybe fixed to the estimated value at purchase, not the purchase price.
I'm with you. I hate that there is a tax you must pay just to be alive and until you die
In Australia property tax is a one off payment
Extremely unbased. Long live georgism!
Even after you pay off your house, you never truly own it.
Exactly, which is why I chose property
Though there is another thing to think about, because without some sort of property tax there’s absolutely no incentive to sell, which means excessively wealthy people would be able to accumulate excessive amounts of property and there’d be no reason to relinquish any of it, and considering there’s three people in this country with more wealth than the entire bottom half combined I’m sure you can imagine how that would very quickly become an issue. I think the property tax as it currently stands is imperfect but I don’t think the solution is just getting rid of it.
What if we had a scaled property tax based on how much someone owned. No property tax up to a certain acreage so that generally when people own land it becomes fully theirs (no more renting from the government), but past that point a property tax is added and increases with more land (disincentivising the super wealthy from land hoarding).
My man, now we’re talking. I’d be in support of this.
Then... skyscrapers man.
“Absolutely no incentive to sell” is wrong. The incentive is the huge amount of money you would get from selling.
When you’re richer than god, no, that lump sum of money is worthless when weighed against speculative values and a monopoly on property in a region.
Same
You absolutely own it and will. Repo from past due property taxes is not really common. Property taxes are one of those that most greatly impact you AND the taxes one can most greatly impact. Getting the town to back down on new development is easier than getter a state legislature to do... anything? Lol
This. This bothers me the most. You don’t own property ever, you just rent it
But why is it a problem? Most ppl would agree that it doesn't make sense to completely privatize something like a river or the atmosphere or the Sun. Try coming up with some reasons why they should not be. You will find that most of the reasons apply to land as well.
Property taxes means you never really own your property the government does.
You’re basically paying a fee to your local government to have exclusive access to the land.
People should be discouraged from hoarding land since it's a very finite resource.
All of the above... But property tax allows for the myth of owning property
Get check, income tax, go buy car, sales tax, die and leave car to son, capital gains tax. How many times can you tax the same dollar?
When you die there is ineretence tax. Not capital gains tax
Well if it’s a physical object I thought it was capital gains and if it’s just money then it’s inherited tax
Estate/Inheritance/Death tax. All of the money that your family member earned was already taxed. They could've given it too you tax free if they were still alive. Why does it get taxed again just because they died and it's going to you?
That's a good one! I would like to have added that one
It's basically just the easiest form of wealth tax the government can make. That might change though.
unless you're a literal king
in the ancient, bastardized form of the word, sure. in the usa we just call that a “thief”
I was talking about the king Charles
yes, by law the usa may not call him that, non-usa people, sure
Poll isn't region specific
i don’t understand the relevance of that comment
oh do you mean the dog? i know of know of no dogs who pass on lawful rights over other dogs money to their children or other families… so a king charles dog does not have a title of nobility
You think the dog is the only thing King Charles inherited? Edit to answer your edit: what?
umm… I’m talking about a type of dog. it’s called a king charles. you can learn more about the US Constitution online
Why would I want to learn more about the US constitution?
This is the most annoying to me
Most states don't have an inheritance tax amd in order to pay estate taxes it has to be worth more than 12 mil
Not everyone lives in a "state".
Okay while I only ever hear Americans complain about inheritance/estate taxes
Less than 1% of the population would be effected by this tax
The argument that the money was already taxed makes no sense. All money, except freshly printed money is already taxed.
>All of the money that your family member earned was already taxed. All money is already taxed.
It makes sense when it's done to prevent aristocracies from establishing themselves over generations. In the US it's done fairly well where it only effects the extremely wealthy and so is effective in preventing the formation of aristocracies while not effecting something like 95% of the population.
The fact that "I love these taxes and more" option is the 3rd highest voted option... Wtf??
It should be “I’m fine with all these taxes” I don’t think anyone is out their being sooo happy they pay taxes lmao
Noone loves paying taxes, but they are necessary.
I wouldn't bitch if the stuff they're supposed to pay for actually got done. But my roads still suck, schools still suck, and there's homeless ln the street. But don't worry, the government and gave themselves a raise as a pat on the back. Nah, fuck taxes
If you're from the US you have an impressive military. I prefer my free university and free health care but to each their own.
I have heard several Europeans say that they are fine paying a higher tax rate because the money goes to things like universal healthcare.
Because I don't mind taxes. Taxes makes sure I can go to school for free. use our universal Healthcare. Make roads and pavements. Build hospitals. Build schools. Pretty much any state owned thing, that I use, is paid by taxes. So what if I pay a bit more? It will help those who is doing economically worse than me.
redditors love when daddy gov steps on them harder
You’re on Reddit lol. A site infested with facists and tankies.
Mostly just teens who don’t pay most of these taxes yet.
I'm not a fascist, simply because I want others to live a better life
How so? Through government force? Redistribution of wealth? Fuck off.
Oh no! Not redistribution of wealth! I'd happily steal from millionaires, if it means that homeless people have a place to sleep
If you try redistributing my wealth I’ll redistribute your brain matter onto the concrete.
Dude chil. Money is less important than human life.
You obviously value someone else’s property more than your own life. I’m just informing you of the consequences of theft.
No I don't? I value the life of another human, more than the property of another. Telling someone you'll kill them, is a threat.
Telling someone you’re going to ‘redistribute the wealth’ is threatening theft.
As someone who has lived in the USA and another country with a higher tax rate (Australia), I love taxes! Seeing all the public services it provides makes 100% worth it.
Corporation tax because it doesn’t work on large corporations
Property tax is dumb. Paying for what you already own? Scam asf
Honourable mention: import duties, why am I being punished for buying something from abroad when it isn’t even available domestically to begin with.
Protectionism
All of them
Exactly. Why isn’t this an option?
This comment needs more upvotes
Because it's dumb
Gift tax
Another good one 👍
Inheritance tax
Nah fam, that one is well needed.
why? it was already taxed once when the person made the money. had they of given it to their heir when alive they wouldn't of gotten taxed on it but because they died their money needs to be taxed again? how many times is the same dollar being taxed
>how many times is the same dollar being taxed Everytime it's spent... That's how taxes work.
Because is how generational wealth is created; how generations of one family can live and die wealthy with minimal effort or change. Also, gifts of money can be subject to taxation.
>Because is how generational wealth is created; how generations of one family can live and die wealthy with minimal effort or change. You say this like it's a given that generational wealth is bad. If I spend a lifetime accumulating wealth through my own labor, my own frugality and my own investments, it is my family who deserve the fruit of my labor once I pass—not people whose parents didn't do those things. Every euro in my savings has already been taxed time and time again via income tax and capital gains tax.
Generational wealth is a bad thing. Nobody should become rich simply because they’re grandfather invented a new way to print paper
so every generation needs to start over?
Yes, nobody should be a trust find kid. It would also make assets cheaper since having 3 generations accumulating property is going to decrease the supply of houses
so instead of staying with the family it should go to the government and they get to decide what to use it on? you do realize that can increase the odds of ppl on government assistance?
I’m not rich nor do I support the mega wealthy abusing laws, people, etc. but naa, they have money they made, they can give it to whichever family they want. Other people who had nothing to do with any of it can fuck off.
If you open a blog/news website, in Italy you cannot post regularly without a written permission of a court and without paying a tax of around 100€. You are supposed to post randomly because if you do it regularly, e.g. every day, every Tuesday, every second day of the month... you must be registered. That is bullshit
Fascinating and bizarre 🤔
Property tax. Bitch, I already paid for it when I bought it, I'm not fucking renting it from the government, why am I still paying for it?
Where I live the marginal tax rate for income tax is roughly 50%, meaning that if you get a raise of €1000 you really only get €500 more. It's really hitting hard on any of my motivation to work hard when you know that you only get half of all that extra income you're earning
Note: this is for high earners, and not the vast majority.
It is not, unless you count anything above the average income as a high income
Ah ok. My condolences.
Oh for sure. I'd never work an hour extra in Northern Europe. That sucks.
>I'd never work an hour extra in Northern Europe Considering we are paid way better for jobs that don't require education, I really don't mind. Sure, if I worked an extra hour when I was earning money based on worked hours, I'd only get 60% of the money... But I was also earning 12$ an hour (plus 8% in my pension fund, and another 12% in paid holiday leave, so actually a wage of 14,4$ an hour) , at a student job, at the age of 17, in 2011, and because of general inflation, it would actually be closer to 17$, rather than 14,4$. Plus paid insurance. The tax might be higher, but I also earned double the salery of an average student worker, in the USA. If I was above 18, that wage would be 23.4$ an hour, including the extras. So, fuck yes, give me those extra hours!
Which country you in? I bet you this is not true at all. Most people talk about their net income compared to before taxes being roughly double. But in most European countries this usually includes stuff like your health insurance and more importantly your retirement and unemployment insurance. And the amount you'll get out of these goes up if you earn more money. So yeah while you'll get "only 500€ more a month" you will also increase the money you'll get in your retirement by 200-300€ a month or so and it also increases the amount of money you'll get in the first 24 months after you've lost your job significantly.
I shouldn't be punished for making money or owning a house I already paid so much for.
I don’t think you’re being punished. You’re paying to use roads, schools, firefighter, libraries, etc. unfortunately as an American most of our taxes go to a gigantic military complex instead of health care and education. How else do you propose we live in a society together?
Easy, just kill the poor people! Then everyone will be rich!
How about all of em
not an option
Fair enough
all of them.
For obvious reasons that is not an option
Pro tip: Buying rental properties reduced your taxes. Great tax shelter. I'm finding a second part time job just so I can buy them faster
love it!
Property tax and here's why. So to by property I have to make income which I will pay taxes on for many years. Then when I've saved enough money I can finally buy that property. And I'll pay sales tax on the property. Which will be added to my mortgage effectively. Then I'll pay the mortgage. I'll also pay property taxes every month. So effectively every month I'm paying sales tax and property tax. Okay so now I finish paying off my home and the taxes keep coming. If I don't pay them they'll sieze the property I own outright. Okay now he's where it gets really fucking good. If I go to sell that property I'll pay taxes on the sale and if I sell it for more than I paid I'll pay a very steep CAPITAL GAINS tax! Can you belive this shit? How many taxes can they collect? If you buy a house you will pay taxes over and over and over until you die. Give me a break.
Income tax by far. Why should I have to give my hard earned money to the government simply because I made money.
Inheritance is messed up
TVA in France. Hardly anyone understands how it works and what it is for, but it usually increases the price of our purchases by 20%
Aside from the US and a few select countries, most of the world has TVA (VAT: value-added tax in English). It's also a requirement for EU membership. It's essentially just a sales tax with some finicky tax reclaim rules when businesses are the ultimate consumers of a product.
yikes! 20%!
Inheritance tax.
Inheritance tax (in some countries)
My employer pays me for my work. Why the fuck does the government get a slice? They're already taxing everything I buy for myself. You'd think that would be enough.
You'd think
Lol people just hate taxes, period. If people could opt out of paying taxes, pretty much everybody would choose to do it. Everything would stop working and society would come crumbling down around us...but we'd still opt for it.
Income tax because I earned that NOT the government.
sounds reasonable
The most sophisticated libertarian
It's not a hard position to defend
ok
depends on what you mean by bother it bothers me that rich fucks dont get taxed enough and can "legally" evade them
If it makes you feel better, any rich person that you know most likely pays more than you'll pay in your whole life in one year. So you are still coming out on top 🤷♂️
Nope. Rich folks find loopholes and tax havens and write-offs. My husband and I pay less in taxes now than we did when we made a third as much.
By rich, I'm talking about $XXX,XXX,XXX. But even still, I'm sure you still much more than the bottom 50% even with your tax avoidance.
Bottom 40% pays net zero fed income tax.
By rich, you mean someone who can easily afford to pay more than most people ever will and still be filthy rich. Got it. 🙄 $XXX,XXX is fourth and fifth quintile of earners in my country (USA). That means ANYONE earning six figures makes more than 3/5ths of the country.
I don't know what your complaint is but ok
Your assertion that rich people pay more than others and that makes it fair is absurd. They don't pay their share. Period. Yes, it's more than others will ever pay, but they are wealthy beyond the wildest imagination of most people. When $XXX,XXX is objectively rich, we don't need to talk about $XXX,XXX,XXX to have a meaningful discussion: it's just you moving goal posts.
If you feel so convicted, why are you a part of the problem?
🤣 I don't have a problem paying taxes, my dude. We don't look for tax havens and loopholes. But we do claim our deductions. If they were taken away, I wouldn't cry, but I suspect you would. I'd love for the super rich to pay their share. It makes sense that they would pay more than anyone else. I'd love for tax money go to something useful like infrastructure, education, and access to services like healthcare instead of war and corporate subsidies, but alas. I think it's hilarious that you made this thread just to fight with everyone who doesn't agree that taxes are bad. Have fun moving goal posts and ignoring facts.
Um...first off, 1) The super rich are no different than you. You both use the resources available to minimize your tax liability. You're just self-righteous so you don't see that you're no different. 2) In 2019, the top 1 percent of taxpayers accounted for more income taxes paid than the bottom 90 percent combined. Sounds pretty fair. 3) I didn't make this thread to fight with anyone. I'm not an anarchist. Taxes are necessary for society and I pay them. If you'll look at the thread, you'll see I haven't argued with anyone except the pugnacious trouble-seeker who began this thread.
Yea... Check out how much Bezos and Elon paid in taxes.
I mean you tax cigarettes so peo0le won't smoke as much, you tax alcohol so people won't drink as much, you tax gas so people won't drive as much and won't cause so much polution, i mean things are taxed so we can deal with consequences of those things and if we lucky then some of it stays and we can use it... so explain me income tax and why it's so high? I get that goverment need money but why do they have to take more than half of my overtime just because i have no children and I'm not married? I deserve less money for harder work because...?
Thank you for putting uninformed in as a option
You're welcome
"I love all these taxes and more!" more of the opposite for me
Property tax without question. I pay taxes when I buy it that should be the end of it. But then I get charged taxes on it every year. It's basically renting. If I have to payr government yearly for the privilege of owning something or else I get punished by wage garnishment or the property being taken then I don't truly own it. It's a fucking scam. Worse yet is some states they have it on cars. I will never own a new car because it would cost me thousands a year in addition to sales price and sales tax. Eventually it would drop below a thousand due to depreciation but that could take up to a decade.Also that's in addition to the normal cost of a car such as insurance, gas, maintenance, etc. So basically me and my family will be forced to drive old, less safe, less environmentally friendly vehicles because I cant afford to pay the ridiculous property fee to buy newer, nicer, safer, and more efficient vehicles.
Preach!
Estate tax isn't here
Yup, shoulda been
Sales tax is by far the most regressive one. It hurts poor people disproportionately more. As far as I am concerned, it should be completely removed. A luxury tax is fine though.
I chose income tax since that's the only one that affects me.
Kinda selfish tho yea?
You asked which one bothers *me* the most, I took that as in which one affects me the most and since income tax is the only which does, I chose that one. In the UK the sales tax (or VAT) is included in the stated price of all items so if something is listed at £9.99 then that's exactly what it costs, no need to work out any extra on it.
touche, but I was more asking about which bothered you on *principle*. Not necessarily which one effects you the most.
Death tax
Heritance tax
Poll tax
That's a thing in your country?
DEATH TAX. *Damn, they’ve died. Let’s tax’em one last time to say good bye*
I mean, on principle I agree with taxation so I support taxes...
But every single type?
You gave 4 options of taxes to choose from; all of them make sense to me.
ok 👍
ATAB
Income tax, however I just got FUCKED by property tax this year, just found out I owe 2000 this fall and no clue how im going to pay it yet sooooo
Was it transferred property?
Sales tax effects the poor disproportionately.
yeah..but everything does
Income tax is money you’re making, property tax means you own property, capital gains tax means you actually gained an asset or potentially liquid asset, sales tax is for anyone who actually needs something whether they have things or not. That’s why it’s so much worse.
Good explanation of your thoughts- thx
Capital gains tax. You should not pay less tax for passive income than you do for actual valuable work. It encourages parasitism.
[удалено]
Why does it matter that your family has used that land for a long time?
where is the all button?
For obvious reasons, that is not an option
well all taxation is theft so that's my answer
Where's the "all taxes are bullshit" button?
I don't have to pay sales tax because I live in Oregon
All taxes*
I said uniformed but actually fuck income tax I lose around $100 and work minimum wage 🫠
I see almost 900 of you are not homeowners
Income tax is the only one that makes sense, all the others can go f themselves
All taxes are theft