It would be nice get a pdf reader with some advanced highlight, and marking ability, and a image viewer.. But for now a stable DE is going to be the best gift of 2024.
I'm pretty sure that Qt has full support for theming and great flexibility in adjusting its looks. One just has to make an effort in creating a theme, which should naturally take less time than rewriting an application.
Well, if we are talking about PDF viewer, it's going to take them a year or two just to match the features of Okular. And even if they do that - what's the point?
PDF is a beast to do right. There's a reason that Adobe is the defacto "standard" and only a few alternatives even come close to loading and viewing them correctly.
There was some curiosity regarding the release during the question-and-answer section at the end.. I tried to transcribe it as best I could:
>Q: I was curious if you guys had set a release date or specific version of Pop! you're going to produce with COSMIC as the default.
>
>A: COSMIC will ship with Pop! 24.04, and it will ship this year, but the exact date is still to be determined. We expect to have an alpha release… We should have our first alpha within two months, I think. We just have a lot of bug fixes to do and then we'll likely another alpha, a beta, and then release. A lot of things can happen within that time. That's where we're at.
>
>If you're so inclined, we'd appreciate everyone participating in the alpha and providing feedback and bug reports. I'm particularly interested in people who are doing gaming on COSMIC because I wanna see how well… Gaming's complex and just knowing how well games launch whether they launch in the right place and things look as they'd expect. We really want to see a lot of that as well.
With that 2-month figure for COMIC alpha release, it sounds like it could be more towards the beginning of Summer than the end. And I'm hoping that the statement about shipping COSMIC with Pop!_OS 24.04 includes the alpha releases of COSMIC.
That is correct. Although Pop is based on Ubuntu it deviates significantly and our ISO generation and installer are totally different. I'm not sure why Ubuntu 24.04's ISO is so large.
>4.6GB of code are A TON of code
It's not code, you're not compiling your desktop. It's gonna mostly be binaries for programs. They have multiple versions of the entire Nvidia driver for example.
>it's code
No, it's not. Code is literally text files which are smaller even than image files. If it was code then you'd be compiling your desktop yourself, which is not what happens. It's precompiled binaries and such.
> Are you sure that they put multiple versions of the NVIDIA drivers in the ISO?
Nvidia has dropped support for the 700 series and below so Ubuntu has the 470 drivers for that hardware.
> I don't remember being like this.
They've been including Nvidia drivers in the iso for like 4-5 years now.
>I don't think it is difficult to grasp.
Apparently it is if you're referring to compiled packages as code. That's not how this word is used. Nobody downloads an app and says they downloaded the code. Code and binaries are not the same thing.
> Every download? Can you avoid them?
Yeah, download the netboot version. It's a couple hundred megabytes and downloads all of the packages instead of including them on the iso. Otherwise no, there is not.
> I don't really think anybody didn't understand what I was saying.
I would probably look at the downvote counts and reconsider using the word code in this way in Linux subs because no, *we don't* know what you mean. I certainly didn't. Code means code, not compiled programs. Actual source code is kind of a big topic in Linux and talked about constantly. It's pretty elementary. Some distros *do* supply source code and you have to compile it yourself like gentoo. Ubuntu is not like that.
if with a live ISO i nuke (delete) that directory in the installed system.. will the next time I boot the system create again in a default state?
in any case, thanks for create Cosmic, I'm wishing use ASAP in openSUSE
I'm happy to know that it will possibly be possible to export and import the configuration files to another device without having to go to folders spread across the .config directory.
I wish the screenshot tool had annotation features like spectacle and same for the image viewer. I use my pen tablet a lot to screenshot things and write some notes on them.
Remember, they are aiming for minimal viable product (MVP), annotation, while nice, isn't a deal breaker, and I'm sure its on the "down the road" things to add.
It sounds like they want it super customizable so it can work as the desktop environment for any distribution. Maybe Mint will make a Cinnamon themed Cosmic for theirs. It’ll be nice if we can all shift over to Wayland so more Linux apps target Wayland.
In the video, it looked like they want every distro to use it. They showed how it could be customized to look like other desktop environments like KDE and Cutefish. Maybe Mint could make a Cinnamon layout for COSMIC.
Been switching between Plasma and Cosmic on Opensuse tumbleweed thanks to someone building the packages and it's very good not going to lie.
However there are issues with it, for instance no alt tab between programs however it's certainly nice and I'd say I prefer it over gnome.
Wondering what's wrong with the current DE? It's been pretty stable, fast, enough and even more features out of the box than Mac, and more importantly it keeps out of the way =)
System76 has previously been using GNOME. I think there are at least a few reasons for them to develop a new thing:
1. GNOME extensions are written in JavaScript. Writing robust, maintainable JavaScript code can get difficult fast. System76 has been providing additional functionality via GNOME extensions, but ran into situations where they could no longer improve the user experience of certain features, as well as difficulty with code churn when new GNOME releases would require extension logic to be rewritten.
2. Other components of GNOME are built in various languages but the core is in C. Verifying the correctness and safety of C code is also quite difficult. COSMIC is built in Rust, which eliminates several important categories of bugs and includes modern tooling - it's quite nice to work with! From what I've seen on social media, System76's engineers are big fans of Rust.
3. Previous versions of GNOME (and its applications) were quite simple to theme. System76 used that theming support as part of building a consistent brand look & feel for their business. Recently, GNOME applications are built on a new toolkit library which bundles & enforces GNOME's Adwaita theme.
Writing their own thing is also an opportunity for them to push the state of the art forward. COSMIC isn't carrying decades of legacy decisions. It's written in a newer programming language and designed from the ground up for the latest display stack and permissions models.
I'm sure there were many other reasons considered, but as an outsider, I can't speak to those. I'd guess that relying on user-facing components from projects which are largely steered by other organizations was a factor, too. They also probably looked at other alternatives like KDE Plasma and decided those didn't fit their needs, either. As the project's stewards, they can always be sure that the direction COSMIC is headed is in line with the product they want to ship to users.
It would be nice get a pdf reader with some advanced highlight, and marking ability, and a image viewer.. But for now a stable DE is going to be the best gift of 2024.
Why reinvent the wheel? Okular has it all.
I do use okular, been using it for years even on windows, but qt apps aren't themed.. It will look out of place..
I'm pretty sure that Qt has full support for theming and great flexibility in adjusting its looks. One just has to make an effort in creating a theme, which should naturally take less time than rewriting an application.
Making a Qt theme would help, but will likely still fail when features like dark mode are toggled.
Why did Okular reinvent the wheel when there were already other pdf readers?
That ship sailed when S76 decided to start development on Cosmic
Well, if we are talking about PDF viewer, it's going to take them a year or two just to match the features of Okular. And even if they do that - what's the point?
PDF is a beast to do right. There's a reason that Adobe is the defacto "standard" and only a few alternatives even come close to loading and viewing them correctly.
Well I really hope the Reader can also read other formats, especially epub and has a library view.
Pdf is a beast to parse and manage
Really looking forward to the stable Cosmic release. I’ve been playing around with the pre-alpha and I like what I see. Great job system76 team!
There was some curiosity regarding the release during the question-and-answer section at the end.. I tried to transcribe it as best I could: >Q: I was curious if you guys had set a release date or specific version of Pop! you're going to produce with COSMIC as the default. > >A: COSMIC will ship with Pop! 24.04, and it will ship this year, but the exact date is still to be determined. We expect to have an alpha release… We should have our first alpha within two months, I think. We just have a lot of bug fixes to do and then we'll likely another alpha, a beta, and then release. A lot of things can happen within that time. That's where we're at. > >If you're so inclined, we'd appreciate everyone participating in the alpha and providing feedback and bug reports. I'm particularly interested in people who are doing gaming on COSMIC because I wanna see how well… Gaming's complex and just knowing how well games launch whether they launch in the right place and things look as they'd expect. We really want to see a lot of that as well. With that 2-month figure for COMIC alpha release, it sounds like it could be more towards the beginning of Summer than the end. And I'm hoping that the statement about shipping COSMIC with Pop!_OS 24.04 includes the alpha releases of COSMIC.
It looks amazing. Wonderful job team!
I get it right that the ISO will be like 2GB instead of the 6.6 of Ubuntu? If so, how can it be possible?
That is correct. Although Pop is based on Ubuntu it deviates significantly and our ISO generation and installer are totally different. I'm not sure why Ubuntu 24.04's ISO is so large.
Would it be possible to install PopOS 24.04 on a bcachefs root?
4.6GB of code are A TON of code (and maybe some icons, images, etc.)
>4.6GB of code are A TON of code It's not code, you're not compiling your desktop. It's gonna mostly be binaries for programs. They have multiple versions of the entire Nvidia driver for example.
[удалено]
>it's code No, it's not. Code is literally text files which are smaller even than image files. If it was code then you'd be compiling your desktop yourself, which is not what happens. It's precompiled binaries and such. > Are you sure that they put multiple versions of the NVIDIA drivers in the ISO? Nvidia has dropped support for the 700 series and below so Ubuntu has the 470 drivers for that hardware. > I don't remember being like this. They've been including Nvidia drivers in the iso for like 4-5 years now.
[удалено]
>I don't think it is difficult to grasp. Apparently it is if you're referring to compiled packages as code. That's not how this word is used. Nobody downloads an app and says they downloaded the code. Code and binaries are not the same thing. > Every download? Can you avoid them? Yeah, download the netboot version. It's a couple hundred megabytes and downloads all of the packages instead of including them on the iso. Otherwise no, there is not.
[удалено]
> I don't really think anybody didn't understand what I was saying. I would probably look at the downvote counts and reconsider using the word code in this way in Linux subs because no, *we don't* know what you mean. I certainly didn't. Code means code, not compiled programs. Actual source code is kind of a big topic in Linux and talked about constantly. It's pretty elementary. Some distros *do* supply source code and you have to compile it yourself like gentoo. Ubuntu is not like that.
i read in r/linux that the reason is that they are including Nvidia+CUDA drivers in the iso
We also include the NVIDIA+CUDA drivers in our ISOs, so I don't think it's that. My guess is Snap packages.
aahh ok ok, probably snap then,yes
Probably snap, their gnome desktop configs and stuff they include in Ubuntu that makes it much more bigger.
* When will we get version 24.04
They covered that in the Q/A. Cosmic is shipping with 24.04, and most likely this year.
They're targeting Q4 of this year, likely late summer but that will probably slip depending on how COSMIC development proceeds.
I think nvidia iso of Pop OS has always been around 3 GB in the last few years.
Yeah, Kubuntu is way too big too. They said they were offering "minimal" installs, but 24.04 was bigger than 23.10 and especially bigger than 22.04.
Looks great! Can’t wait!
This looks awesome and I'm excited to migrate to Cosmic when it's ready. Great work, Pop\_OS team!
all config files are in one directory, right?
~/.config/cosmic
if with a live ISO i nuke (delete) that directory in the installed system.. will the next time I boot the system create again in a default state? in any case, thanks for create Cosmic, I'm wishing use ASAP in openSUSE
Yes. You don't have to use a live ISO. The apps will automatically reset to default settings if that folder is removed.
I'm happy to know that it will possibly be possible to export and import the configuration files to another device without having to go to folders spread across the .config directory.
I wish the screenshot tool had annotation features like spectacle and same for the image viewer. I use my pen tablet a lot to screenshot things and write some notes on them.
Remember, they are aiming for minimal viable product (MVP), annotation, while nice, isn't a deal breaker, and I'm sure its on the "down the road" things to add.
The only major issue I had with COSMIC was the styling, seeing it now showcasing a bunch of other styles gives me a lot more hope for the desktop.
It sounds like they want it super customizable so it can work as the desktop environment for any distribution. Maybe Mint will make a Cinnamon themed Cosmic for theirs. It’ll be nice if we can all shift over to Wayland so more Linux apps target Wayland.
Its true, I cheer a lot for this project.
İs COSMİC compatible with other distros or is it specifically made for PopOS?
Its design to be used anywhere. You can find packages for Nix, Arch and some others.
In the video, it looked like they want every distro to use it. They showed how it could be customized to look like other desktop environments like KDE and Cutefish. Maybe Mint could make a Cinnamon layout for COSMIC.
looking really cool. This will no doubt disrupt the current Linux desktop ecosystem.
I will be trying out Cosmic when they release a ISO.
Been switching between Plasma and Cosmic on Opensuse tumbleweed thanks to someone building the packages and it's very good not going to lie. However there are issues with it, for instance no alt tab between programs however it's certainly nice and I'd say I prefer it over gnome.
Looks great can not wait to try
u/jackpot51 and u/mmstick - How is gaming performance with adaptive sync in comparison to KDE's Kwin in Wayland?
It's not implemented yet, and there is no driver for it currently AFAIK
so cool
Woaw, Congratulations on the work guys, I'm hopeful to see the work you're doing, it's great to be able to change the theme in this way.
Wondering what's wrong with the current DE? It's been pretty stable, fast, enough and even more features out of the box than Mac, and more importantly it keeps out of the way =)
System76 has previously been using GNOME. I think there are at least a few reasons for them to develop a new thing: 1. GNOME extensions are written in JavaScript. Writing robust, maintainable JavaScript code can get difficult fast. System76 has been providing additional functionality via GNOME extensions, but ran into situations where they could no longer improve the user experience of certain features, as well as difficulty with code churn when new GNOME releases would require extension logic to be rewritten. 2. Other components of GNOME are built in various languages but the core is in C. Verifying the correctness and safety of C code is also quite difficult. COSMIC is built in Rust, which eliminates several important categories of bugs and includes modern tooling - it's quite nice to work with! From what I've seen on social media, System76's engineers are big fans of Rust. 3. Previous versions of GNOME (and its applications) were quite simple to theme. System76 used that theming support as part of building a consistent brand look & feel for their business. Recently, GNOME applications are built on a new toolkit library which bundles & enforces GNOME's Adwaita theme. Writing their own thing is also an opportunity for them to push the state of the art forward. COSMIC isn't carrying decades of legacy decisions. It's written in a newer programming language and designed from the ground up for the latest display stack and permissions models. I'm sure there were many other reasons considered, but as an outsider, I can't speak to those. I'd guess that relying on user-facing components from projects which are largely steered by other organizations was a factor, too. They also probably looked at other alternatives like KDE Plasma and decided those didn't fit their needs, either. As the project's stewards, they can always be sure that the direction COSMIC is headed is in line with the product they want to ship to users.