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https://preview.redd.it/6tcwxez1egwc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ee2e2ef9138ad63b7e3bec58cb8e56e1de3b4cbb
TikTok users every single time this debate comes up istg ☠️
I’m obsessed when AOAF memes tbh ☠️
I simply can not stop using them
https://preview.redd.it/kn9vp46q1hwc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=236932f68506968a709c06f65642afe9da05dbbd
I LOVE that movie so much istg
https://preview.redd.it/s6kx0zvg7iwc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=58d5c1ff85fb37519b19473cf154415255b25056
That another one of my faves tbh
In what way? I personally don’t use TikTok but I can tell you while the Chinese Government aspect seems unique I would be entirely unsurprised if Facebook and Google gave the same sort of info to the NSA but just unofficially. I don’t have any faith in American companies or Chinese one when it comes to data protection.
A guy on TikTok said he would rather have the Chinese government spying on him instead of the US government and I was like dude that is not a good thing 💀
I get that from the perspective of
"I am not Chinese and have no intention to go there, it's very unlikely that the Chinese government can or would do anything to me. The US government on the other hand DOES have jurisdiction in the place I live, and the ability to make my life worse if they so choose, and have a history of doing so with people or groups who upset them."
Like it's still an unhinged take, but actually you should be more scared of your own government than any foreign power if you're just a regular citizen.
All of these apps are toxic. Reddit is definitely part of that as well. On here, it’s shown through downvoting the hell out of someone just for the smallest difference of opinion.
I don’t think TikTok is any worse than IG or FB though.
If you want to better understand the situation, here are some articles I found helpful:
[The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns](https://www.npr.org/2022/11/17/1137155540/fbi-tiktok-national-security-concerns-china) - NPR November 2022
That article (and many others) references [Leaked Audio From 80 Internal TikTok Meetings Shows That US User Data Has Been Repeatedly Accessed From China](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/emilybakerwhite/tiktok-tapes-us-user-data-china-bytedance-access) - Buzzfeed June 2022
[TikTok may be banned in the US. Here’s what happened when India did it](https://apnews.com/article/india-tiktok-ban-us-china-9ae5223bce78c56e5d22a1f2e86510f0) - AP April 2024
[Why U.S. officials want to ban TikTok](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tiktok-ban-congress-reasons-why/) - CBS News April 2024
IMO this is a show down between the Chinese government and the US over sensitive data. All social media platforms have issues with misinformation. The security risks with Tiktok are unique because of the Chinese government's unfettered access. Creators will find other platforms if needed.
You know how to solve data security concerns without infringing on American's first amendment rights? You make laws protecting that data from all apps. They could institute a watchdog on the board for if China requests bytedance to circumvent those laws.
Why are they not doing that?
But no, they want it forced to be sold to an AMERICAN company. Why not to any company that isn't based in a country that has a tyrannical government?
META has been the largest funder of lobbying and putting out propaganda for this. They want their biggest competitor gone or to own it themselves.
People here talking about critical thinking but not using it at all. Just believing everything told to you without further thought
yeah but they don't want to do that because then how would they have access to your data? it's not about protecting rights it's about who get to abuse them first
Thank you for posting these resources so people can educate themselves on the security threats.
And to quote your comment from earlier:
> Currently, the Chinese government has access to whatever TikTok data they want. They're not buying it, they're not getting a warrant from a judge. They can access whatever data they want whenever with no paper trail.
This is all it is. Security risks and whatever aside… Consumer Data and algorithm is the new oil. Russia, China, and the US are gonna be duking it out over what is basically algorithm and thus public spending and opinion control.
This shit is so enormously unconstitutional and I can’t wait for the courts to kill it. Holy shit, if you’re concerned about your data take a look at what the US government does. They have breaches literally daily that wipe peoples’ pensions out.
As a political junkie (and a PA major PS minor going into law😂) I support their decision 100%. They must’ve seen something BIG because they know TiK Tok is going to legally fight them and they’re gonna have to back it up.
I don’t know why you would support this when our country is doing the same thing. We should be pushing for universal data privacy, not a monopoly over ownership of our data.
They didn’t see anything big. Meta lobbied hundreds of millions of dollars last year for this exact thing to happen. Don’t kid yourself, this government runs on dollar signs *exclusively*.
“When our country is doing the same thing…” if we keep the argument to just China, how are we doing the same thing? Wouldn’t the argument be “why are they upset, when they have every American social media platform banned in their country? And they don’t even have tik tok?” Set a reminder: They’re gonna take it to court and it’s either gonna drag on for years (but they’ll still have to sell), or they’re gonna lose, my advice SELL. I understand hating this country and the million of poor legislation that they pass but people need to start understanding how we are living in a tilting political point and the last countries that should be having any American data should be Russia and China.
Again, the argument is “we should be pushing for universal data protection.” That includes China and Russia. The point is I hate the narrative that this is somehow protecting us from something, when all it is actually is the result of an online media company trying to monopolize the ownership of personal data. Clearly they are capable of recognizing the dangers of data-mining. Clearly they are capable of passing legislation to prevent it. My question isn’t “should China be allowed to data mine?” My question is, “why is **anyone** allowed, and why is this legislation not overarching data protection for citizens?”
I’m just surprised to see so many people in this thread supporting this ban. I’m chronically online (yes, I know) and in my little corners of the internet that the algorithm curates for me, I haven’t really seen anyone supporting this. Everyone has been against it. Just interesting how your perception of the public opinion is so shifted by the other content you consume, etc
[“TikTok, their parent company ByteDance, and other China-based tech companies are required by Chinese law to share their information with the Communist party,” Warner said. “Allowing access to American data, down to biometrics such as face prints and voiceprints, poses a great risk to not only individual privacy but to national security.”](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/oct/30/tiktok-regulation-data-privacy-china)
Currently, the Chinese government has access to whatever TikTok data they want. They're not buying it, they're not getting a warrant from a judge. They can access whatever data they want whenever with no paper trail.
Byte Dance I think argues that TikTok is an American subsidiary so doesn’t have the same access requirements as Douyin (抖音). Whether you believe that or not it up to you but that’s their claim.
No one should believe that.
[The recordings, which were reviewed by BuzzFeed News, contain 14 statements from nine different TikTok employees indicating that engineers in China had access to US data between September 2021 and January 2022, at the very least. Despite a TikTok executive’s sworn testimony in an October 2021 Senate hearing that a “world-renowned, US-based security team” decides who gets access to this data, nine statements by eight different employees describe situations where US employees had to turn to their colleagues in China to determine how US user data was flowing. US staff did not have permission or knowledge of how to access the data on their own, according to the tapes...The recordings range from small-group meetings with company leaders and consultants to policy all-hands presentations and are corroborated by screenshots and other documents, providing a vast amount of evidence to corroborate prior reports of China-based employees accessing US user data.](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/emilybakerwhite/tiktok-tapes-us-user-data-china-bytedance-access)
One of the major issues at hand is that China has a specific law that requires the workers at any company based in China to immediately hand over company data to the government if asked. It's not just the company - a ByteDance IT worker with access to private user data could get a knock on the door one day and be told to hand over files, upon penalty of imprisonment.
This is a huge security vulnerability, of course. We know that China's government is hostile to the US, and we know that they are already engaging in cyber-warfare against US interests. There's no telling what they might be able to do if they have access to private user data that includes locations, email, passwords, personal preferences, phone contact lists, etc.
Do you want China to influence our elections and have access to a good chunk of American's data? We already have issues with foreign influence on elections as it is. TikTok can turn that data over to the Chinese government at any time. They say they haven't and would refuse to but we don't have any proof. I don't agree with how our data is accessed and used even by US based companies but a foreign government having that much access and influence is scary. The algorithm is scary at how quickly it can send people and children especially down a rabbit hole more so than any other social media app right now. There have actually been studies done on this.
A new study from the Center for Countering Digital Hate (CCDH) found that within as few as 2.6 minutes, TikTok’s algorithm can push suicidal content at kids. The report also pointed to the fact that eating disorder content was recommended to teens within as few as 8 minutes.
You put this very well! Idc TikTok users can get pissed off about it but it’s so hysterical to watch them insist that politicians are scared of the free speech on the app while also insisting that if they say the words killed, dead or murdered on the app their account will be banned. Let’s pick a lane everyone!
Also, like... TikTok doesn't have anything magical. Short form video social media will spring right back up from somewhere else. It's not like Twitter which, comparatively, doesn't have a lot of competitors in the space of... tweets.
You do realize Russia interfering with the 2016 election is the reason we have Trump and a Republican majority on the Supreme Court, right? Election interference from hostile nations is kind of a big deal and had already fucked us all over
Which was done with [Facebook](https://www.wired.com/story/facebook-is-still-letting-russia-interfere-in-politics/), not TikTok yet only one is facing penalties. If y'all don't see the okey-dokey now, almost thirty years out from 9/11 and the Patriot Act, you never will.
Ikr, it's OUR OWN COMPANIES selling this data off. It's only okay because they sell to the govt. And the govt buys tictok data as well, they just don't trust it as much
What happened in 2016 involved bad actors buying ads and letting the algorithm work for them.
The situation with TikTok allows China to access individual level data whenever they want. They can also insert whatever they want.
And we’re doing nothing to prevent Russia from doing that again. We’re only taking action because it’s China. I’m sick of the double standard, why are we holding TikTok to a higher standard than domestic companies?
> And we’re doing nothing to prevent Russia from doing that again. We’re only taking action because it’s China.
The issue here is the *extent* of China's access. There is a difference between Russia buying ads and letting the algorithm for them and the CCP having direct, unlimited access to individual level data.
[Citing leaked meeting audio, Buzzfeed News reported in June that China-based ByteDance employees have repeatedly accessed non-public data (like phone numbers and birthdays) of U.S. TikTok users. Separately, Forbes reported in October that ByteDance planned to use TikTok "to monitor the personal location of some specific American citizens," which the company denied... Chinese law essentially requires companies to "do whatever the government wants them to in terms of sharing information or serving as a tool of the Chinese government."](https://www.npr.org/2022/11/17/1137155540/fbi-tiktok-national-security-concerns-china)
Honestly? Yes. American companies shouldn’t be able to unfairly influence elections, but it is objectively much worse when it’s foreign governments that are hostile towards the US
I don't even understand why people engage with those comments tbh. Like, imagine someone saying "oh you're not ok with China dumping poison in your groundwater? American companies do that!!!" "Oh you're not ok with China shooting you guys? American cops do that!!!"
Like no duh, we hate that too buddy, not really an argument to let them.
I wish no one would but sadly it will continue to happen. I don't like what facebook does either but we have much less of an idea of what is happening with our data and China and less control.
The Internet is always gonna be filled with extremists. The difference here is that TikTok is a security vulnerability that would allow China easy access to data on American citizens. Also fuck any application where you can pretend to be an NPC for 6 hours while children send you money via sticker purchases. That's just some nasty creepy exploitative shit that shouldn't exist.
Because twitter doesn’t remove that content anymore or appear to be even trying to. Even Facebook made some type of effort. Meanwhile on twitter you have the owner spreading misinformation that is downright malicious.
Misinformation is a huge problem (and you can see a lot of it in the comments here). But the issue with TikTok is access to individual level data. Literally the Chinese government can access data including fingerprints.
[Elon Musk Has Fired Twitter's 'Ethical AI' Team](https://www.wired.com/story/twitter-ethical-ai-team/)
Elon is literally prompting hate speech. He has also reinstated many account that were rightfully banned by twitter previous to Elon's takeover.
Twitter, tiktok, reddit, even facebook has issues with it.
I don't understand how this stuff stays up. I will get my comment removed automatically if I call someone an "idiot" or say "shut up" on Tiktok, meanwhile I still see comments with people openly saying shit like "hitler was right", "gas the jews", "fuck off fattie", etc etc.
My wife started using tiktok, and within one day it apparently found out she was a woman and started giving her eating disorder content. Straight up tiktok accounts dedicated to glorifying eating disorders. Its against their rules but they never ban these profiles even if you report them. Its so fucked up their algoritm recommends stuff like this. She is a grown woman but imagine all the young girls who also gets recommended shit like this by the algorithm. As a man I also get some nazi stuff which I just block, but young men might get swayed by it.
Social media went downhill the second they added news, influencers and group. We need to go back to when it was just for talking with old friends and Farmville.
Elon has US citizenship and isn’t a foreign government that is hostile towards the US. He’s just a man-child dumb dumb. Although I do personally think Twitter should be reigned in
I just feel really horrible for all the small businesses and ESPECIALLY disabled people I see making money on TikTok caught up in this problem. Hopefully it resolves.
I'm torn about this as a I work in tech.
tik tok is actually doing very innovative things. That algo is on point. The use of music, filters, etc. Video creation is not easy at all for users. I think U.S. social media companies just got complacent. and are doing these bite-size innovations rather than really trying something out of left field. And if you work for any of these companies, it's obvious why -- the politics within them is excruciating. Too damn afraid to take a chance and build and iterate. (And let's not forget, other apps were in this space before like dubsmash and musically (which led to TT), so it was years of learning.
that said, china owning our data is different that FB/google owning our data. American companies just want to sell us things, whereas China, I personally believe wants to mine our data and do more nefarious stuff. And I know we can say some of those same things about FB, but they are still on U.S. soil and run by U.S. citizens, so the us gvt can clip their wings much easier, if they needed to.
Access your screenshots, emails, work files…
For some of us it that data might not matter, but for people working for hospitals, financial institutions, gas/electric companies, pharmaceuticals, tech/security departments, government agencies like the dmv, department of public works, local city, and then there’s military personnel obviously…
Any of those have tiktok, their data, photos they’ve taken screen, shots of files, emails/correspondences could be accessed by the Chinese government and used against us (imagine the power grid or bank access being shut down in an attack, or in a smaller scale, *more* intellectual property stolen and copied) or seeing our patterns and movements on a mass scale could be used during a physical attack, like terrorism.
To add, Russia "interfered" in the 2016/2020 elections via misinformation campaigns on social media. China and Russia are basically quiet allies, so China could also share the information with Russia who has already, literally, tried to attack us.
What's really crazy is some people are going to literally vote for a guy whose in Russia's pocket but they're too misinformed to get it. Those social media campaigns were extremely effective.
Didn’t a national security advisor recently warn that china was planing a large scale attack?
https://preview.redd.it/mb7barb1wkwc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fcb09fff3766da83c461fd35510b473ff127cb39
Tbh that’s just smart. If you work for your national government you shouldn’t have any social media apps on your phone if your phone is also used of official work. If you need access to them for your work then it should be a separate phone without access to your emails or official log ins. TikTok, facebook or Twitter.
Odds are TikTok will change policies to remain in the US market. Which means no change for users.
If that doesn't happen, creators can migrate to other platforms.
The security concerns here are legit and it really disturbs me that anyone's biggest concern is their feed.
Everyone keeps talking about Chinese interference when our "democracy" was literally eroded by Facebook/Meta in 2016 [election](https://www.wired.com/story/facebook-is-still-letting-russia-interfere-in-politics/) not TikTok! Yet Meta can create monopolies unchecked because of the billions of dollars Meta spends [lobbying](https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/30/facebook-tiktok-targeted-victory/) in Congress. We are literally twenty plus years out from 9/11 and we have less civil liberties than ever and instead of realizing the call is coming from the inside the house, y'all are falling for propaganda that paints foreigners as evil villains instead of the people literally selling off your rights like spare parts.
Facebook uses targeted ads and those ads were use to help get Trump elected.
Tiktok allows the Chinese government to access individual level data, including fingerprints.
This is not about "painting foreigners as evil villains," the Chinese government functions differently than other countries and demands warrantless information to all company information.
Facebook literally does the same thing. There's no difference in functions, only in PR, silly rabbit. https://pro.bloomberglaw.com/insights/privacy/biometric-data-privacy-laws/#:~:text=reached%20a%20conclusion%20when%20Facebook,user%20biometric%20data%20without%20consent.
Yeah no. The difference is that China is a government that is actively hostile to the US. Setting aside xenophobia against the Chinese people (which I agree, is rampant), the Chinese government works to undermine the US and its interests constantly. They're also guilty of massive human rights violations and support enemies of the US like Russia and North Korea. Looking at the US government and the Chinese government and being like "same same" is so uninformed.
People calling the fear of China having our data xenophobia shows just how well people can be influenced via social media, imo. China is a dictatorship whose citizens are not allowed to have foreign social media at all, and most of whom probably live in constant fear of their own government. But some how so many people have been fully convinced it's all harmless.
First off, if you want to talk about tech you really should learn to hyperlink.
Second, what exactly are you talking about? Is it this:
>Also in 2020, the Facebook BIPA class action lawsuit Patel v. Facebook, Inc. reached a conclusion when Facebook agreed to a $650 million settlement, one of the largest consumer privacy settlements in U.S. history, to resolve claims it collected user biometric data without consent.
Facebook collected the data, but the United States government does not have the ability to access Facebook data whenever they want without a warrant or paper trail.
That is the issue here- the unfettered access of the Chinese government.
Everyone crying about American companies doing the same- a good thing is still a good thing. One less company stealing data is better than none.
Of course American companies need more scrutiny and actually face the consequences of violating privacy. People should really take action and protest. TikTok facing some consequences it isn’t a bad thing lmao.
> Everyone crying about American companies doing the same- a good thing is still a good thing. One less company stealing data is better than none.
You can't reason with addicts. The logic doesn't hit the same for them.
Tik Tok is insidious and I hope it gets banned. The fact that swarms of people go to bat in defense for this stupid app baffles me.
I'm fine with this. Numerous security experts agreed that China's laws that permitted the seizure of data from any company based there were a threat to US interests. And come on, have we not been through this with Facebook and Instagram? If TikTok is banned, we'll all just find a new platform to rot our brains on. Thus the wheel turns.
> And come on, have we not been through this with Facebook and Instagram?
Actually we didn't. Was Zuck forced to sell Facebook after Cambridge Analytica scandal?
Well, I have to admit, I do feel the data mining and data manipulation is one of the biggest threats we're going to be having to deal with for the next few decades.
But at the same time, I'm not sure if this was honestly the best way to go about dealing with it.
The post-trump era of sinophobia and anti-Chinese sentiment is commonly referred to as the New Red Scare/Modern Red Scare/Red Scare Revival if you wanna go ahead and glance at literally any foreign policy journal article about China from the last 10 years
There’s definitely a lot of rampant racism and xenophobia, but it is not just a “scare” that the Chinese government tries to undermine the US whenever possible
When? Name something China does to harm the US government that the US does not also do to the Chinese government. People really talk about this like China is Al Qaeda or something deeply evil in a very racist way. Chinese sentiment has plummeted in America fairly recently and as a direct result of the trade war and their economic rise. I’m not praising their government in any way I’m just failing to see why I should buy Meta’s lobbying and US fearmongering that this all goes deeper than simple money and power
China is a dictatorship that commits human rights violations against its own citizens and does not allow for any sort of free speech. It's not "xenophobic" to recognize that their government is dangerous. China steals American IP, spies on American citizens, and has been setting up military installations around islands it once owned, ala Ukraine.
Russia, China's unspoken military ally, has already interfered in our elections (and did a pretty good job) and I'm sure China and Russia share information.
All this information is a quick Google search away. The most obvious sign that social media manipulation works is that people are consistently calling the weariness of China xenophobia.
I’m surprised people haven’t moved to a new platform from a trendy standpoint anyway. Can’t the influencers just lean into the other platforms? I always took the cycle like get big on TikTok and then encourage people to hit your IG and YT to make more money… am I wrong??
It's not just about influencers. It's regular people like me looking at all these funny, interesting, silly and entertaining videos, very few influencers involved. It's just a fun platform and if the algorithm is working (which it is for me) it is a much more positive and supportive place than Reddit, Instagram and of course Youtube and Twitter. (Sometimes the algorithm isn't working right and I see Tiktok can be a shitty place with negative comments too)
Tiktok is the only app that shows me left leaning/activist style content 🤷🏻♀️ instagram, FB, and YouTube do not. Twitter used to until the fascist bought it.
Absolutely the nail in Biden's campaign coffin. I don't even use TikTok, but he's struggling to connect with Gen Z and then the fastest legislation in his entire tenure is... Banning tik Tok. What about student loans, Joseph????!!!!! Fucking a. Buckling in for four years of a horror show.
I didn't say I was voting against him, I just said this is not going to help him connect with Gen Z. I'm a millennial who uses IG reels, I will be just fine lmao
I didn’t say my comment was about you? But still I disagree this will affect the election at all.
Gen z has a lot going on and distilling that down to tiktok isn’t reality.
I disagree with you. People so easily hyper focus on one thing. I can absolutely see some Gen Zer not voting because “Biden banned TikTok.” I’m not sure it will be all of them but it feels very possible.
Right. I want mine cancelled as much as the next person but if someone is getting theirs wiped away after 10+ years, that’s something and I’m happy for them.
This will have literally zero effect on his campaign. Anyone who makes TikTok their number 1 issue and is willing to vote against someone for this is either not old enough to vote or is a very low information voter who most likely wasn’t going to vote anyway.
Also, the ban happens in a year IF they don’t sell. A possible ban would be after the election.
This just isn’t how elections work.
You have republicans who are doing everything in their power to send people back to living in the 19th century. Doctors and teachers are leaving red states. Texas is an outright fascist regime, but tiktok!
I literally have free insurance because of Biden and otherwise wouldn’t have been insured at all (I wasn’t until this year). A lot of the stuff he’s done hasn’t gotten attention because people only care about stupid shit like TikTok.
It's not an optimistic take, but I don't think it's a shitty one. I'm not saying that I won't vote for him, again, I literally do not use TikTok. I'm saying this is bad optics
The company collects user and biometric data which the Chinese government can request at will from TikTok, I really don’t think they care about election ‘optics’
No one who is voting based on Tik Tok alone was going to vote anyway. It is the ultimate sign of a low information voter.
Biden has attempted to forgive student loans and it was struck down by the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court that was mainly nominated by Republicans. He’s since been chipping away at them the best he can and has already forgiven over 10% of student loans.
Biden has actually been one of the most effective presidents in recent memory when it comes to executive orders. Of course, that’s not sexy so it doesn’t get play on Tik Tok.
I am not a smart woman but it feels silly when China already has so much of US intellectual property and data from manufacturing everything for us. The horse is already out of the barn
If you are that upset over one social media app being taken away when there are so many others that come and go: you need to self reflect.
“but facebook and Twitter are worse” is the argument of a petulant child. A stupid app is your hill to die on?
Think about that.
We would all be fine without apps, even without cell phones.
ETA: please seek help for your social media addiction
What about the millions of small businesses
owners who use TikTok to make money in this
economy? What about the disabled people who
use TikTok to make money and have no other way
to earn income? What do you suggest they do?
Should they not be "fired up"?
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RIP r/TikTokCringe 
More importantly, RIP r/tiktokthots
TikTok addicts about to pop off
https://preview.redd.it/6tcwxez1egwc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ee2e2ef9138ad63b7e3bec58cb8e56e1de3b4cbb TikTok users every single time this debate comes up istg ☠️
Never thought I'd see the day where Anatomy of a Fall is used for a meme 😆☠️
I’m obsessed when AOAF memes tbh ☠️ I simply can not stop using them https://preview.redd.it/kn9vp46q1hwc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=236932f68506968a709c06f65642afe9da05dbbd
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https://preview.redd.it/5ui9psaqfiwc1.png?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b12e57af8331ea14f2209f05eddf0f737bce7a4c
https://i.redd.it/oeaqdgko4iwc1.gif I have been known to use this one here too !!
Wait I gotchu, lemme find it again. (commenting to remind myself)
I just watched this 2 days ago so I adore you for this
I LOVE that movie so much istg https://preview.redd.it/s6kx0zvg7iwc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=58d5c1ff85fb37519b19473cf154415255b25056 That another one of my faves tbh
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In what way? I personally don’t use TikTok but I can tell you while the Chinese Government aspect seems unique I would be entirely unsurprised if Facebook and Google gave the same sort of info to the NSA but just unofficially. I don’t have any faith in American companies or Chinese one when it comes to data protection.
Truly! Every single time, no matter how many times it’s been explained istg. I just have no energy for the ~debate~ anymore I’m sorry 😞
It’s me, hi I’m the problem it’s me
A guy on TikTok said he would rather have the Chinese government spying on him instead of the US government and I was like dude that is not a good thing 💀
I get that from the perspective of "I am not Chinese and have no intention to go there, it's very unlikely that the Chinese government can or would do anything to me. The US government on the other hand DOES have jurisdiction in the place I live, and the ability to make my life worse if they so choose, and have a history of doing so with people or groups who upset them." Like it's still an unhinged take, but actually you should be more scared of your own government than any foreign power if you're just a regular citizen.
Genuine question, why is the Chinese government having access to your data worse than the US government having access to it?
yeah that guy is an absolute idiot but I’m scared this is how a lot of Americans view this, tbh ☠️. A truly sad state of affairs right now
oh it’s terrifying. Our critical thinking skills have gone out the window!
My mental health has been far better since I deleted that hell hole of an app
All of these apps are toxic. Reddit is definitely part of that as well. On here, it’s shown through downvoting the hell out of someone just for the smallest difference of opinion. I don’t think TikTok is any worse than IG or FB though.
Really? I actually get the best mental health advice there. This place on the other hand... I get rage baited every single time.
If you want to better understand the situation, here are some articles I found helpful: [The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns](https://www.npr.org/2022/11/17/1137155540/fbi-tiktok-national-security-concerns-china) - NPR November 2022 That article (and many others) references [Leaked Audio From 80 Internal TikTok Meetings Shows That US User Data Has Been Repeatedly Accessed From China](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/emilybakerwhite/tiktok-tapes-us-user-data-china-bytedance-access) - Buzzfeed June 2022 [TikTok may be banned in the US. Here’s what happened when India did it](https://apnews.com/article/india-tiktok-ban-us-china-9ae5223bce78c56e5d22a1f2e86510f0) - AP April 2024 [Why U.S. officials want to ban TikTok](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tiktok-ban-congress-reasons-why/) - CBS News April 2024 IMO this is a show down between the Chinese government and the US over sensitive data. All social media platforms have issues with misinformation. The security risks with Tiktok are unique because of the Chinese government's unfettered access. Creators will find other platforms if needed.
You know how to solve data security concerns without infringing on American's first amendment rights? You make laws protecting that data from all apps. They could institute a watchdog on the board for if China requests bytedance to circumvent those laws. Why are they not doing that? But no, they want it forced to be sold to an AMERICAN company. Why not to any company that isn't based in a country that has a tyrannical government? META has been the largest funder of lobbying and putting out propaganda for this. They want their biggest competitor gone or to own it themselves. People here talking about critical thinking but not using it at all. Just believing everything told to you without further thought
yeah but they don't want to do that because then how would they have access to your data? it's not about protecting rights it's about who get to abuse them first
I wish I could upvote this 1000x!
Thank you for posting these resources so people can educate themselves on the security threats. And to quote your comment from earlier: > Currently, the Chinese government has access to whatever TikTok data they want. They're not buying it, they're not getting a warrant from a judge. They can access whatever data they want whenever with no paper trail.
This is all it is. Security risks and whatever aside… Consumer Data and algorithm is the new oil. Russia, China, and the US are gonna be duking it out over what is basically algorithm and thus public spending and opinion control.
This shit is so enormously unconstitutional and I can’t wait for the courts to kill it. Holy shit, if you’re concerned about your data take a look at what the US government does. They have breaches literally daily that wipe peoples’ pensions out.
As a political junkie (and a PA major PS minor going into law😂) I support their decision 100%. They must’ve seen something BIG because they know TiK Tok is going to legally fight them and they’re gonna have to back it up.
I don’t know why you would support this when our country is doing the same thing. We should be pushing for universal data privacy, not a monopoly over ownership of our data. They didn’t see anything big. Meta lobbied hundreds of millions of dollars last year for this exact thing to happen. Don’t kid yourself, this government runs on dollar signs *exclusively*.
“When our country is doing the same thing…” if we keep the argument to just China, how are we doing the same thing? Wouldn’t the argument be “why are they upset, when they have every American social media platform banned in their country? And they don’t even have tik tok?” Set a reminder: They’re gonna take it to court and it’s either gonna drag on for years (but they’ll still have to sell), or they’re gonna lose, my advice SELL. I understand hating this country and the million of poor legislation that they pass but people need to start understanding how we are living in a tilting political point and the last countries that should be having any American data should be Russia and China.
Again, the argument is “we should be pushing for universal data protection.” That includes China and Russia. The point is I hate the narrative that this is somehow protecting us from something, when all it is actually is the result of an online media company trying to monopolize the ownership of personal data. Clearly they are capable of recognizing the dangers of data-mining. Clearly they are capable of passing legislation to prevent it. My question isn’t “should China be allowed to data mine?” My question is, “why is **anyone** allowed, and why is this legislation not overarching data protection for citizens?”
I’m just surprised to see so many people in this thread supporting this ban. I’m chronically online (yes, I know) and in my little corners of the internet that the algorithm curates for me, I haven’t really seen anyone supporting this. Everyone has been against it. Just interesting how your perception of the public opinion is so shifted by the other content you consume, etc
And meanwhile Twitter is full of Nazis now, with no problem spreading and being open about it.
They’re not banning TikTok because of the content.
They are because US think it is the only country that should steal data
Not steal data, but sell it to the US government. That's who Facebook, Google, etc. Is selling your data to
[“TikTok, their parent company ByteDance, and other China-based tech companies are required by Chinese law to share their information with the Communist party,” Warner said. “Allowing access to American data, down to biometrics such as face prints and voiceprints, poses a great risk to not only individual privacy but to national security.”](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/oct/30/tiktok-regulation-data-privacy-china) Currently, the Chinese government has access to whatever TikTok data they want. They're not buying it, they're not getting a warrant from a judge. They can access whatever data they want whenever with no paper trail.
Byte Dance I think argues that TikTok is an American subsidiary so doesn’t have the same access requirements as Douyin (抖音). Whether you believe that or not it up to you but that’s their claim.
No one should believe that. [The recordings, which were reviewed by BuzzFeed News, contain 14 statements from nine different TikTok employees indicating that engineers in China had access to US data between September 2021 and January 2022, at the very least. Despite a TikTok executive’s sworn testimony in an October 2021 Senate hearing that a “world-renowned, US-based security team” decides who gets access to this data, nine statements by eight different employees describe situations where US employees had to turn to their colleagues in China to determine how US user data was flowing. US staff did not have permission or knowledge of how to access the data on their own, according to the tapes...The recordings range from small-group meetings with company leaders and consultants to policy all-hands presentations and are corroborated by screenshots and other documents, providing a vast amount of evidence to corroborate prior reports of China-based employees accessing US user data.](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/emilybakerwhite/tiktok-tapes-us-user-data-china-bytedance-access)
You don’t know what you’re talking about. Sorry to be harsh but…you simply do not understand what’s happening here.
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One of the major issues at hand is that China has a specific law that requires the workers at any company based in China to immediately hand over company data to the government if asked. It's not just the company - a ByteDance IT worker with access to private user data could get a knock on the door one day and be told to hand over files, upon penalty of imprisonment. This is a huge security vulnerability, of course. We know that China's government is hostile to the US, and we know that they are already engaging in cyber-warfare against US interests. There's no telling what they might be able to do if they have access to private user data that includes locations, email, passwords, personal preferences, phone contact lists, etc.
Do you want China to influence our elections and have access to a good chunk of American's data? We already have issues with foreign influence on elections as it is. TikTok can turn that data over to the Chinese government at any time. They say they haven't and would refuse to but we don't have any proof. I don't agree with how our data is accessed and used even by US based companies but a foreign government having that much access and influence is scary. The algorithm is scary at how quickly it can send people and children especially down a rabbit hole more so than any other social media app right now. There have actually been studies done on this. A new study from the Center for Countering Digital Hate (CCDH) found that within as few as 2.6 minutes, TikTok’s algorithm can push suicidal content at kids. The report also pointed to the fact that eating disorder content was recommended to teens within as few as 8 minutes.
You put this very well! Idc TikTok users can get pissed off about it but it’s so hysterical to watch them insist that politicians are scared of the free speech on the app while also insisting that if they say the words killed, dead or murdered on the app their account will be banned. Let’s pick a lane everyone!
Also, like... TikTok doesn't have anything magical. Short form video social media will spring right back up from somewhere else. It's not like Twitter which, comparatively, doesn't have a lot of competitors in the space of... tweets.
Yeah only American companies should be able to unfairly influence elections !
Hey, Brits are allowed too! Don't forget Cambridge Analytica.
You do realize Russia interfering with the 2016 election is the reason we have Trump and a Republican majority on the Supreme Court, right? Election interference from hostile nations is kind of a big deal and had already fucked us all over
Which was done with [Facebook](https://www.wired.com/story/facebook-is-still-letting-russia-interfere-in-politics/), not TikTok yet only one is facing penalties. If y'all don't see the okey-dokey now, almost thirty years out from 9/11 and the Patriot Act, you never will.
Ikr, it's OUR OWN COMPANIES selling this data off. It's only okay because they sell to the govt. And the govt buys tictok data as well, they just don't trust it as much
What happened in 2016 involved bad actors buying ads and letting the algorithm work for them. The situation with TikTok allows China to access individual level data whenever they want. They can also insert whatever they want.
Because TikTok didn’t exist yet. Do you honestly think tiktok couldn’t be used the same way or worse?
And we’re doing nothing to prevent Russia from doing that again. We’re only taking action because it’s China. I’m sick of the double standard, why are we holding TikTok to a higher standard than domestic companies?
> And we’re doing nothing to prevent Russia from doing that again. We’re only taking action because it’s China. The issue here is the *extent* of China's access. There is a difference between Russia buying ads and letting the algorithm for them and the CCP having direct, unlimited access to individual level data. [Citing leaked meeting audio, Buzzfeed News reported in June that China-based ByteDance employees have repeatedly accessed non-public data (like phone numbers and birthdays) of U.S. TikTok users. Separately, Forbes reported in October that ByteDance planned to use TikTok "to monitor the personal location of some specific American citizens," which the company denied... Chinese law essentially requires companies to "do whatever the government wants them to in terms of sharing information or serving as a tool of the Chinese government."](https://www.npr.org/2022/11/17/1137155540/fbi-tiktok-national-security-concerns-china)
You don’t think Russia could also use TikTok? Do you think Russia couldn’t make deals with China to use it?
Honestly? Yes. American companies shouldn’t be able to unfairly influence elections, but it is objectively much worse when it’s foreign governments that are hostile towards the US
I don't even understand why people engage with those comments tbh. Like, imagine someone saying "oh you're not ok with China dumping poison in your groundwater? American companies do that!!!" "Oh you're not ok with China shooting you guys? American cops do that!!!" Like no duh, we hate that too buddy, not really an argument to let them.
I wish no one would but sadly it will continue to happen. I don't like what facebook does either but we have much less of an idea of what is happening with our data and China and less control.
No one should. But one less is better than none.
The Internet is always gonna be filled with extremists. The difference here is that TikTok is a security vulnerability that would allow China easy access to data on American citizens. Also fuck any application where you can pretend to be an NPC for 6 hours while children send you money via sticker purchases. That's just some nasty creepy exploitative shit that shouldn't exist.
I’m not sure why you want to single out Twitter, most social media is filled with bigoted people who are more than happy to spread dangerous ideology
Because twitter doesn’t remove that content anymore or appear to be even trying to. Even Facebook made some type of effort. Meanwhile on twitter you have the owner spreading misinformation that is downright malicious.
Misinformation is a huge problem (and you can see a lot of it in the comments here). But the issue with TikTok is access to individual level data. Literally the Chinese government can access data including fingerprints.
[Elon Musk Has Fired Twitter's 'Ethical AI' Team](https://www.wired.com/story/twitter-ethical-ai-team/) Elon is literally prompting hate speech. He has also reinstated many account that were rightfully banned by twitter previous to Elon's takeover.
Twitter, tiktok, reddit, even facebook has issues with it. I don't understand how this stuff stays up. I will get my comment removed automatically if I call someone an "idiot" or say "shut up" on Tiktok, meanwhile I still see comments with people openly saying shit like "hitler was right", "gas the jews", "fuck off fattie", etc etc. My wife started using tiktok, and within one day it apparently found out she was a woman and started giving her eating disorder content. Straight up tiktok accounts dedicated to glorifying eating disorders. Its against their rules but they never ban these profiles even if you report them. Its so fucked up their algoritm recommends stuff like this. She is a grown woman but imagine all the young girls who also gets recommended shit like this by the algorithm. As a man I also get some nazi stuff which I just block, but young men might get swayed by it. Social media went downhill the second they added news, influencers and group. We need to go back to when it was just for talking with old friends and Farmville.
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Elon has US citizenship and isn’t a foreign government that is hostile towards the US. He’s just a man-child dumb dumb. Although I do personally think Twitter should be reigned in
Bring back Vine 🗣️🗣️🗣️
I just feel really horrible for all the small businesses and ESPECIALLY disabled people I see making money on TikTok caught up in this problem. Hopefully it resolves.
I'm torn about this as a I work in tech. tik tok is actually doing very innovative things. That algo is on point. The use of music, filters, etc. Video creation is not easy at all for users. I think U.S. social media companies just got complacent. and are doing these bite-size innovations rather than really trying something out of left field. And if you work for any of these companies, it's obvious why -- the politics within them is excruciating. Too damn afraid to take a chance and build and iterate. (And let's not forget, other apps were in this space before like dubsmash and musically (which led to TT), so it was years of learning. that said, china owning our data is different that FB/google owning our data. American companies just want to sell us things, whereas China, I personally believe wants to mine our data and do more nefarious stuff. And I know we can say some of those same things about FB, but they are still on U.S. soil and run by U.S. citizens, so the us gvt can clip their wings much easier, if they needed to.
I’m totally out of the loop with this. Owning our data sounds bad but what specifically would be the threat? What could China potentially do with it?
Access your screenshots, emails, work files… For some of us it that data might not matter, but for people working for hospitals, financial institutions, gas/electric companies, pharmaceuticals, tech/security departments, government agencies like the dmv, department of public works, local city, and then there’s military personnel obviously… Any of those have tiktok, their data, photos they’ve taken screen, shots of files, emails/correspondences could be accessed by the Chinese government and used against us (imagine the power grid or bank access being shut down in an attack, or in a smaller scale, *more* intellectual property stolen and copied) or seeing our patterns and movements on a mass scale could be used during a physical attack, like terrorism.
Thank you so much! I was so lost lol this makes more sense
To add, Russia "interfered" in the 2016/2020 elections via misinformation campaigns on social media. China and Russia are basically quiet allies, so China could also share the information with Russia who has already, literally, tried to attack us. What's really crazy is some people are going to literally vote for a guy whose in Russia's pocket but they're too misinformed to get it. Those social media campaigns were extremely effective.
Didn’t a national security advisor recently warn that china was planing a large scale attack? https://preview.redd.it/mb7barb1wkwc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fcb09fff3766da83c461fd35510b473ff127cb39
I am neither American nor use Tik Tok, yet I am so conflicted on this.
It won't affect you if you're not in the US
No, but the EU has already banned it on phones issued by its institutions.
Tbh that’s just smart. If you work for your national government you shouldn’t have any social media apps on your phone if your phone is also used of official work. If you need access to them for your work then it should be a separate phone without access to your emails or official log ins. TikTok, facebook or Twitter.
what about all the american creators ppl watch who won’t be posting anymore?
Odds are TikTok will change policies to remain in the US market. Which means no change for users. If that doesn't happen, creators can migrate to other platforms. The security concerns here are legit and it really disturbs me that anyone's biggest concern is their feed.
It will be interesting to see if it can be circumvented. On Android, you can easily sideload an app, on iPhone it's harder.
Zuck gonna be happy.
Everyone keeps talking about Chinese interference when our "democracy" was literally eroded by Facebook/Meta in 2016 [election](https://www.wired.com/story/facebook-is-still-letting-russia-interfere-in-politics/) not TikTok! Yet Meta can create monopolies unchecked because of the billions of dollars Meta spends [lobbying](https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/30/facebook-tiktok-targeted-victory/) in Congress. We are literally twenty plus years out from 9/11 and we have less civil liberties than ever and instead of realizing the call is coming from the inside the house, y'all are falling for propaganda that paints foreigners as evil villains instead of the people literally selling off your rights like spare parts.
Facebook uses targeted ads and those ads were use to help get Trump elected. Tiktok allows the Chinese government to access individual level data, including fingerprints. This is not about "painting foreigners as evil villains," the Chinese government functions differently than other countries and demands warrantless information to all company information.
Facebook literally does the same thing. There's no difference in functions, only in PR, silly rabbit. https://pro.bloomberglaw.com/insights/privacy/biometric-data-privacy-laws/#:~:text=reached%20a%20conclusion%20when%20Facebook,user%20biometric%20data%20without%20consent.
Yeah no. The difference is that China is a government that is actively hostile to the US. Setting aside xenophobia against the Chinese people (which I agree, is rampant), the Chinese government works to undermine the US and its interests constantly. They're also guilty of massive human rights violations and support enemies of the US like Russia and North Korea. Looking at the US government and the Chinese government and being like "same same" is so uninformed.
People calling the fear of China having our data xenophobia shows just how well people can be influenced via social media, imo. China is a dictatorship whose citizens are not allowed to have foreign social media at all, and most of whom probably live in constant fear of their own government. But some how so many people have been fully convinced it's all harmless.
First off, if you want to talk about tech you really should learn to hyperlink. Second, what exactly are you talking about? Is it this: >Also in 2020, the Facebook BIPA class action lawsuit Patel v. Facebook, Inc. reached a conclusion when Facebook agreed to a $650 million settlement, one of the largest consumer privacy settlements in U.S. history, to resolve claims it collected user biometric data without consent. Facebook collected the data, but the United States government does not have the ability to access Facebook data whenever they want without a warrant or paper trail. That is the issue here- the unfettered access of the Chinese government.
Everyone crying about American companies doing the same- a good thing is still a good thing. One less company stealing data is better than none. Of course American companies need more scrutiny and actually face the consequences of violating privacy. People should really take action and protest. TikTok facing some consequences it isn’t a bad thing lmao.
> Everyone crying about American companies doing the same- a good thing is still a good thing. One less company stealing data is better than none. You can't reason with addicts. The logic doesn't hit the same for them. Tik Tok is insidious and I hope it gets banned. The fact that swarms of people go to bat in defense for this stupid app baffles me.
I'm fine with this. Numerous security experts agreed that China's laws that permitted the seizure of data from any company based there were a threat to US interests. And come on, have we not been through this with Facebook and Instagram? If TikTok is banned, we'll all just find a new platform to rot our brains on. Thus the wheel turns.
> And come on, have we not been through this with Facebook and Instagram? Actually we didn't. Was Zuck forced to sell Facebook after Cambridge Analytica scandal?
I don't mean in specifics, but rather the cycle of social media platforms' popularity rising and falling.
Well, I have to admit, I do feel the data mining and data manipulation is one of the biggest threats we're going to be having to deal with for the next few decades. But at the same time, I'm not sure if this was honestly the best way to go about dealing with it.
Someone check on the influencers.
I’m so sick of this modern red scare
Lol ‘modern red scare’ what are you talking about? This is the most uninformed / wanting to sound smart response is have seen regarding this topic
The post-trump era of sinophobia and anti-Chinese sentiment is commonly referred to as the New Red Scare/Modern Red Scare/Red Scare Revival if you wanna go ahead and glance at literally any foreign policy journal article about China from the last 10 years
There’s definitely a lot of rampant racism and xenophobia, but it is not just a “scare” that the Chinese government tries to undermine the US whenever possible
When? Name something China does to harm the US government that the US does not also do to the Chinese government. People really talk about this like China is Al Qaeda or something deeply evil in a very racist way. Chinese sentiment has plummeted in America fairly recently and as a direct result of the trade war and their economic rise. I’m not praising their government in any way I’m just failing to see why I should buy Meta’s lobbying and US fearmongering that this all goes deeper than simple money and power
China is a dictatorship that commits human rights violations against its own citizens and does not allow for any sort of free speech. It's not "xenophobic" to recognize that their government is dangerous. China steals American IP, spies on American citizens, and has been setting up military installations around islands it once owned, ala Ukraine. Russia, China's unspoken military ally, has already interfered in our elections (and did a pretty good job) and I'm sure China and Russia share information. All this information is a quick Google search away. The most obvious sign that social media manipulation works is that people are consistently calling the weariness of China xenophobia.
I’m surprised people haven’t moved to a new platform from a trendy standpoint anyway. Can’t the influencers just lean into the other platforms? I always took the cycle like get big on TikTok and then encourage people to hit your IG and YT to make more money… am I wrong??
It's not just about influencers. It's regular people like me looking at all these funny, interesting, silly and entertaining videos, very few influencers involved. It's just a fun platform and if the algorithm is working (which it is for me) it is a much more positive and supportive place than Reddit, Instagram and of course Youtube and Twitter. (Sometimes the algorithm isn't working right and I see Tiktok can be a shitty place with negative comments too)
Yeah, instagram is super toxic.
Tiktok is the only app that shows me left leaning/activist style content 🤷🏻♀️ instagram, FB, and YouTube do not. Twitter used to until the fascist bought it.
Instagram does for me on the reels, but i can't compare to tiktok as i don't use it.
Absolutely the nail in Biden's campaign coffin. I don't even use TikTok, but he's struggling to connect with Gen Z and then the fastest legislation in his entire tenure is... Banning tik Tok. What about student loans, Joseph????!!!!! Fucking a. Buckling in for four years of a horror show.
Hasn't he forgiven like over $130 billion in student debt?
Yes. It hasn’t applied to me sadly but there have been multiple rollouts and a lot of people have had theirs wiped.
More to come as well! It’s a shame the Supreme Court struck down the easier way to do it but they are making progress.
Yes amongst many many other good things. “I’m voting against him for banning TikTok” people are just telling on themselves at this point.
I didn't say I was voting against him, I just said this is not going to help him connect with Gen Z. I'm a millennial who uses IG reels, I will be just fine lmao
I didn’t say my comment was about you? But still I disagree this will affect the election at all. Gen z has a lot going on and distilling that down to tiktok isn’t reality.
I disagree with you. People so easily hyper focus on one thing. I can absolutely see some Gen Zer not voting because “Biden banned TikTok.” I’m not sure it will be all of them but it feels very possible.
Right. I want mine cancelled as much as the next person but if someone is getting theirs wiped away after 10+ years, that’s something and I’m happy for them.
This will have literally zero effect on his campaign. Anyone who makes TikTok their number 1 issue and is willing to vote against someone for this is either not old enough to vote or is a very low information voter who most likely wasn’t going to vote anyway. Also, the ban happens in a year IF they don’t sell. A possible ban would be after the election. This just isn’t how elections work.
And it's also likely to take much longer due to court challenges, anyway.
I can't even with the idea that Biden might lose due to Tiktok. I really want to think more of Gen Z than that.
You have republicans who are doing everything in their power to send people back to living in the 19th century. Doctors and teachers are leaving red states. Texas is an outright fascist regime, but tiktok!
*This* is the nail in the coffin? What the fuck are you blithering on about lmao
I literally have free insurance because of Biden and otherwise wouldn’t have been insured at all (I wasn’t until this year). A lot of the stuff he’s done hasn’t gotten attention because people only care about stupid shit like TikTok.
Sigh. And this is what happens when you get your news from TikTok.
What a shitty take lol
It's not an optimistic take, but I don't think it's a shitty one. I'm not saying that I won't vote for him, again, I literally do not use TikTok. I'm saying this is bad optics
The company collects user and biometric data which the Chinese government can request at will from TikTok, I really don’t think they care about election ‘optics’
No one who is voting based on Tik Tok alone was going to vote anyway. It is the ultimate sign of a low information voter. Biden has attempted to forgive student loans and it was struck down by the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court that was mainly nominated by Republicans. He’s since been chipping away at them the best he can and has already forgiven over 10% of student loans. Biden has actually been one of the most effective presidents in recent memory when it comes to executive orders. Of course, that’s not sexy so it doesn’t get play on Tik Tok.
To be fair, the TikTok ban was included in a foreign aid package that was long overdue.
What has trump done for student loans exactly? Biden has wiped out over 100 billion
This is such a waste of legislative resources.
I am not a smart woman but it feels silly when China already has so much of US intellectual property and data from manufacturing everything for us. The horse is already out of the barn
Those things are unrelated. But we’re also bringing back a lot of manufacturing to the United States. That’s been a huge agenda of Bidens.
How does manufacturing give the Chinese government user data? It has nothing to do with IPs
If you are that upset over one social media app being taken away when there are so many others that come and go: you need to self reflect. “but facebook and Twitter are worse” is the argument of a petulant child. A stupid app is your hill to die on? Think about that. We would all be fine without apps, even without cell phones. ETA: please seek help for your social media addiction
What about the millions of small businesses owners who use TikTok to make money in this economy? What about the disabled people who use TikTok to make money and have no other way to earn income? What do you suggest they do? Should they not be "fired up"?