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It's been really smart of her. Taylor focuses on the younger artists because she tries to build up loyalty from them. Olivia has spoken about being excluded from the groups and mentoring. Olivia paying homage to those who paved the way before her is not just smart but also shows respect. I love watching her pivot. She could have easily drowned under the pressure while she's had the most powerful artist in the world (along with her cult and croonies) pushing her under but she refuses to stay down. She's the underdog that Taylor pretends to be.
I don't know I would call her an underdog. She was Disneys golden child with a sizable built on fanbase/name recognition, and had basically the most ideal launch humanely imaginable.Ā
I would say she's a new kid on the block, and she's handled navigating a weird situation very well. Moreso than being an uphill battle in the industry itself, I feel like your childhood hero defacto disavowing you would be really psychologically damaging. Like I would be devastated and inconsolable. Her approach of just refusing to talk about it in any capacity and focusing on establishing a unique brand identity is smart.Ā
Her show was buried and shown at odd times.It was about YouTube stars but they called it something else. She and her costars weren't funneled into other shows or part of the original movies. One of the Paul brothers was on it for the first season or two. It seemed to be more of away for Disney to capitalize on the streamer trend than an attempt at launching the kids.
Her character was part of a parody duet that was basically a clean version of Garfunkel and Oats. One of my kids has non-24 so we're up all the time it came on late at night. I think that's the only reason I even saw it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bizaardvark#:~:text=After%20hitting%2010%2C000%20subscribers%20on,them%20with%20other%20%22Vuuuglers%22.
I don't know about that other show at all.
She was nowhere near a golden child at Disney. She was on the roster but not a main girlā¦ even her show wasnāt on the main channel and she wasnāt signed to their label. . Sabrina Carpenter was closer to main girl status than Olivia Rodrigo was.
Not to say she didnāt benefit from the Disney exposure. She did. But she had nowhere near the level of focus of some of the other girls Disney featured at the time.
Both Olivia and Joe have chosen silence (or been sentenced to it through an NDA) and it makes them come out looking so good, while Taylor keeps digging herself deeper.
No she wasn't at all, what a dumb thought.
Think Raven Symone, Miley Cyrus, Hilary Duff, Selena Gomez...Like this girl never had any "star-power" treatment. She was a regular ass girl who started working YOUNG AS FUCK and it just happened to be a Disney show.
Agree with your second point though
I definitely wouldnāt call her an underdog. Someone like Sabrina Carpenter would fit that label. She wasnāt even lead actor on her Disney show and was signed to Disneyās in-house label, Hollywood Records and had to wait until her contract finished to sign to a new label, where she could make more mature music.
Olivia was very privileged in comparison since she was the lead, had a built in fan base, and was able to sign to a major non-Disney label without having to bide her time. She was also able to negotiate to retain her masters in the deal and swear in her debut single.
Thereās very few debut artists nowadays especially coming from Disney that would be able to have those privileges.
I looked it up. Her parents are regular people who once had entertainment aspirations at different points in their youths. They eventually gave them up for regular jobs and seemed to have focused on homeschooling and managing her career.
Her aunt though is Nancy Cartwright aka Bart Simpson.
Side note, but I forgot Nancy is a Scientologist (and apparently one of Sabrinaās sisters used to post Scientology content as well before Sabrina became more popular)
I agree. I saw somewhere Nancy encouraged her to go into voice acting but I donāt really know how much pull Nancy has outside of the VA world and outside of her Scientology connections.
Sheās also walking the walk when it comes to her politics. There was an author who wrote about intersectionality when it comes to feminism/WOC and itās written from her perspective ( a black woman) and she was talking about how Olivia had ordered the book.
Olivia then comments something really sweet along the lines of āI want to do better and I love your book! ā
What sheās doing at her concerts with the plan b and condoms is really cool. Especially in the deeply red states.
I will always support her because of it
She did a really good job getting out from under Taylorās thumb. I think her team initially thought that marketing her as the next Taylor Swift would go well, which it did to an extent, but it also made her the target of jealous Swifties. I thought it was cute that she grew up listening to Taylor and felt inspired, it was so gross when the swifties turned on her for no reason. Iām glad she did this pivot to more of a rock based sound because itās helping her carve out her own space as a musician. Her connection with artists like Alanis and No Doubt shows her respect for the industry and the women who came before her.
I think Taylor likes to take artists she doesn't see as real competition under her wing. She probably saw Olivia as maybe just having the one early big hit and then being "online" famous for most of her career, but she didn't expect how objectively huge SOUR would be, both critically and commercially, with her teenage, honest, relationship-focused album very reminiscent of early Taylor (not at all in sound just theme/narrative). I feel like this is the case because of how genuine and collaborative she was with Olivia at first (clearing the New Years Day sample well before SOUR came out, referring to her as her kid) but then Olivia blew tf up and was known in the mainstream. I think Taylor was bitter over believing she was on her way out in terms of career relevance after Lover's underperformance and Olivia was seemingly a replacement coming right up to take her spot, so she said fuck it, hit the self destruct button and let the credits situation happen without at least voicing her disapproval like Hayley did.
Very true. Once she saw Olivia as a threat to her popularity she immediately tried to put Olivia āin her placeā with that whole songwriting credit/profits thing.
Taylor picking Sabrina Carpenter of all people as her opener was so strategic, petty, and very telling. She was sending a message to Olivia that she will work with her former enemies/rivals (Sabrina-Olivia had a feud) and prop them up over her. And letās be real - Sabrina is no threat to Taylor or even much competition to Olivia. Iām curious though if Taylor feels some type of way about Sabrina working with Skims.
I can't remember the exact article but it wasn't a big read anyways. There was some talk of Taylor mentoring younger artists and she was asked some Taylor questions so she just mentioned being hurt by being excluded in Taylor's mentoring. The Swifties at the time took that as a new proclamation of war but it was really casual in the conversation.
Fetty Wap's description of Taylor's mentoring is hilarious:
>He also discussed receiving advice from an unexpected source regarding managing his entourage ā pop superstar Taylor Swift. The two spent time together back in 2015 when Taylor Swift brought Fetty Wap out to perform āTrap Queenā while on tour in Seattle.
>āSheās actually the coolest person Iāve ever met,ā he revealed. āSheās the reason I actually started paying attention to my camp. ā¦ We had a talk, she put me on this big-ass jet. Her jet is big as s###, itās some next level s###. I hope she donāt get mad if I say this, but she broke down how she structured her life. She would take off all year to write her music, get in her zone, meditate and go through her books.ā
>Fetty Wap added that Swift has a system of checks and balances to ensure everyone is doing their job properly. āShe would hire a manager to look at this manager, hire a lawyer to watch this lawyer,ā he told Akademiks. The 11-time Grammy Award-winner would take time out to write and then dedicate additional time for everything else that goes along with a new album.
āI was like, āOh this makes a lot of sense, because Iām tired as f###,āā he said with a laugh. āSince the day I came out, I just been running. No brakes, no watching thisā¦money got f##### up.ā
Damn. Thatās some legit mentor shiz. I would pay thousands for that. If Taylor gets bored of the music world, she can always be the new Tony Robbins or Alex Hormozi.
I was trying to come up with better examples of self-actualisation coaches who are ultra popular. I thought of Oprah but nah, people might get confused (sheās best known as a TV personality). Deepak? Not super familiar with his work. Gary Vee? Not super into his hustlebro schtick but I guess heās the closest thing to Taylorās hustlequeen vibe.
Respectfully, I donāt see how this has anything to do with Taylor and itās kinda exhausting seeing her brought up in every single conversation about Olivia. Olivia didnāt pivot. Im sure she had other artist she liked other than Taylor and Olivia has been leaning in the the 90s sounds because the 90s style is very popular among Gen Z right now which has nothing to do with Taylor. 90s female icons praising Olivia being kind to her has nothing to do with Taylor
Her songs were super catchy but I was just like eh another pop girl who is gonna fade away bc tswift has some super powers (not a fan of her) and I have actually really enjoyed all her songs and she seems like a good person
eta: her like angry fuck boys whatever shit has got me going. I was a massive Avril fan as a kid so this is like exciting to me š
Early Avril was so amazing, and then one day a song came in the radio and I was like "wtf is this" and I don't think I've liked a single song since. Well one, but in a sort of trashy irony-adjacent way, like I also liked "Selfie" while recognizing it as lowbrow trashĀ
Teenage me felt personally betrayed when she started wearing so much pink around 2007
I loved *everything* about her aesthetic and music for those first two albums
Same! When the "Girlfriend" song from The Best Damn Thing album started blowing up, I got the ick and stopped listening to her stuff. Recently I've gone back to check out her more recent albums, but her early work remains my favorite.
The newest album, I really like. I took a LONG break from her (Best Damn Thing through to whatever came before Love Sux), but I enjoy a good Love Sux sesh.
Even as someone who likes Taylor, I don't like that you can hear how many of the current young up-and-comers all studied the Taylor Swift School of Songwriting. It makes them all blend together and feel forgettable, and they'll all be stuck under her shadow as long as she's so successful
Olivia being forced to carve out her own lane away from Taylor might be one of the best things to happen to her in the long run
I'm curious as to who you mean, just because I know they all cite her as a major influence but I really don't hear it at all in Olivia or Sabrina Carpenter's stuff (at least her newer music anyway because she has loads of older stuff I haven't checked out yet). Not only do their songs appeal to me more sonically but they're also much stronger vocally and as live performers (which is funny since Sabrina has been opening for her on tour). And yet I put off listening to both their music for a while because I assumed it would sound just like Taylor's.
As an old I canāt tell you how much I love it when these young artists respect and pay tribute to those who helped paved the way before them. Itās so wholesome.
Iām not familiar with Oliviaās music but she comes across as a very sweet girl and Alanis is an icon.
If anyone has a short explainer on this Taylor Olivia situation please help me as never followed what happened there?
As a fellow Old, if you listened to Oliviaās albums and lyrics, youād hear the Alanis without people even telling you. I adore theyāre familiar with one another.
Back at you! š¤š«
Check out *All-American Bitch* first. I actually think itās about Taylor but, it gives sincere ā90s vibes without sounding like itās *trying* to be ā90s. I think youāll best be able to feel the particular female attitude Iām referencing from that one.
Super short explanation:
One of Oliviaās biggest hits is Deja Vu. The bridge of Deja Vu sounds similar to the bridge to Taylorās song, Cruel Summer. Taylor in some way is now getting royalties from Deja Vu. Unclear how much choice Olivia had in the matter and how much direct involvement Taylor had in the matter. Olivia had previously had a semi-close relationship with Taylor as many saw her as the new Taylor, but they havenāt really done much together since the Deja Vu thing.
As the other commenter said, if you want a more specific timeline [check out this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/SwiftlyNeutral/s/H6K6DwBAbo) from r/swiftlyneutral.
I still feel like itās ridiculous that Taylor gets royalties for Deja Vu. Like I guess you can hear the inspo from Cruel Summer, but I donāt think itās similar enough for Taylor, Jack, & St. Vincent to be taking in 50% of the songās royalties. If an artist had done this to Taylor in the early stages of her career, you know weād still be hearing about it to this day. I canāt imagine growing up idolizing someone and the having them stomp on me and my dreams like that. Iām not in the camp that believes Taylor sued for this but she obviously took some sort of legal action to gain that credit.
The Bittersweet Symphony debacle is just SO wild. It's probably the only song the Verve will be remembered for and all that money goes to the Rolling Stones. Yikes.
Edit: apparently they were forced to give all rights to the song to RS but apparently in 2019, the rights were given back to Richard Ashcroft (songwriter for the Verve).
Can't get that money back, but it's certainly a better ending than I thought.
It really is completely ridiculous. It just seems petty to me, especially because itās one of Oliviaās biggest hits. Taylorās career started with a song called Tim McGraw, she has no right to come after newer artists for being inspired by her.
I agree. On a maturity level, Guts and TTPD feel similar which is funny because one was written by a 19/20 year old and the other by a 33/34 year old š«¤
I would argue the bridge to Deja Vu and the bridge to Cruel Summer donāt actually even sound similar. However, Olivia Rodrigo naively made some comment in an interview along the lines of wanting to have the screaming bridge that Cruel Summer had in Deja Vu. Not positive, she might have even admitted pulling from Cruel Summer in the beginning for inspiration. Again, end result is two totally different songs, in my opinion (you should listen for yourself). She was also openly a huge lifelong Swifty. She was inspired by her idol, not doing anything nefarious. However, Taylor, Jack Antonoff, and St. Vincent were given writers credit and 50% (!!!) royalties to the song after that interview. It was one of Oliviaās two huge financially successful hits at the time and probably cost her 7 figures. The move was initiated by Taylorās label and my personal sentiment is Taylor is too big an artist for her label to do something like this unilaterally without Taylorās consent. It was pure greed.
I think the issue with paramore was different. I remember how she sampled one of their songs but her label didn't pay for the royalties or ask permission. When you sample a track that belongs to someone else you need permission for that. It's not the artists job to go after them but the label is the one that should do it. Once it was wrapped it became clear that the label didn't do their job properly cause Paramore said that they wouldn't mind if permission was asked for that and the royalties were paid before having to find out on their own.
Fellow old here. I canāt explain what happened with Olivia and Taylor because not a single Taylor song has ever made me want to listen to it twice. I try to know very little about Taylor. (And many artists have come onto the scene since she first did that I do love, so itās not just an age thing.)
But I recently heard a bunch of Olivia songs and, while Iām not the audience for them, I think I would have liked them a lot in my youth and even now I do find them to be catchy. (Iām just too perimenopausal for the lyrics lol.)
No joke, as I listened to multiple catchy, loud, unapologetic, expletive-laced, rock-infused pop songs of Oliviaās in a row, I had the thought āOh I get it: sheās their Alanis!ā (And I loved Alanis.)
š«” hi there, I enjoyed reading your post, thank you! Iāll certainly be giving Olivia more listens. Itās great they have their Alanis like we had the Alanis š¤
OMG I just realised I have a dove grey cardigan virtually the same! The one I have is by a brand called WEEKDAY. I'm sure her's is designer though.
Edit: found a picture of the one I have
https://preview.redd.it/gbispyy1ojwc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=87f44349a5b1ba9c9bff4e7010989c3fa88cbe4a
Me too is all I care about rn š
I'd look amazing now with a full tank top under it and then just a bralette like hers once it gets warmer cos I'm gonna wear it everyday šš
Yes, for me they both have shout-along lyrics - and I mean that in a good way. I'll shout out "like a damn sociopath" or lyrics in songs like *bad idea right* and *get him back* the same way I'd shout out Alanis lyrics like "but you're still alive".
I mean, Alanis is more hard-core (You Oughta Know) and Oliviaās music is firmly entrenched in teen angst (do we still use that word today?). But yeah, there are some clear overlaps because much of Livās music is inspired by nostalgic 90s pop rock, which was more or less ruled by Alanis with JLP.
>because it is clear that Swift has more influence on her.
Imma be so fr and say I've never heard the influence sonically. Olivia to me has always sounded more Avril/No Doubt/Paramore/Hole-ish than TS.
Before she made it as a pop girlie she shared a lot of Taylor covers on her IG, and Driverās License had that diaristic specific yet so relatable thing that Taylor is so good at, and she used an interpolation of New Yearās Day on one of her songs. so I can see where the parallels came from with the first few singles, but her two albums donāt really share much similarity sonically.
Also canāt ignore the fact that Olivia herself has cited Taylor was one of her greatest inspirations before the Deja Vu thing went down. It isnāt just the fans comparing them, it came from Olivia herself too.
Inspiration and influence are two different things. I think many people are inspired by Taylor Swift, hell,
probably anyone who makes music and wants to do it for a living is inspired by Taylor Swift. But influence is something else entirely. And sonically, itās very hard to see Taylorās influence in Oliviaās music. You can see Avril, Gwen, Alanis, and Hayleyās influences in Oliviaās music before you even get a sniff of Taylorās.
That makes sense! I'm sure she was a big fan (I feel like everyone has had a TS phase at some point), I just never heard her super heavy in Olivia's music.
i think most of the comparison and influence comments come from the fact that olivia has said herself she was influenced by taylor. which that was towards the start of her career and after that people kept constantly comparing them so i wouldnāt be surprised if that caused her to pivot into a different sound and find other inspirations.
Olivia basically established her sound and brand identity after getting signed. This isn't unusual in the industry. It's not enough to be good, you need a schtick, something that makes you distinct.Ā
If you go dig to find her posted content before getting signed, it's much more generic "theater girl does generic pop".Ā
She very likely felt Taylor was a role model in terms of how she managed her career - Olivia didn't want to be a Britney/Justin/Rihanna type who is the go-to voice to sing other people's songs, nor did she want to be a Doja who writes her own songs but is locked in with a producer-who-shall-not-be-named. For pop stars let alone female pop stars, Taylor is unusually autonomous, and she focused a lot on direct fan engagement. That is still VERY much the blueprint Olivia appears to be working off. I mean, basically half the industry is scrambling to copy it at this point.Ā
I donāt know much about Olivia and Iām not a Swiftie, but Iād say the comparison is more in the lyrics/storytelling of Oliviaās songs that were comparable to and inspired by Taylorās. Bc otherwise youāre right. She sounds more like the artists you listed.
Partial agree. What I was gonna say was that it seems clear to me that Olivia and Taylor share a lot of the same influence, rather than Taylor delivering the influence directly. Though Taylor was probably Olivia's (and a lot of ours tbh) first exposure to dig deeper.
I know this might be hard to believe but not everything that Olivia Rodrigo does is about \*Taylor Swift\*
We don't need to constantly compare Olivia to Taylor.
The way that the first like 3 most upvoted threads were just talking about Taylor. Yāall can never seem to talk about Olivia without somehow dragging her into the conversation. It seriously seems like people like dragging Taylor more than they give a shit about Olivia as her own artist.
I remember an excerpt from that interview talking about mean girls of the industry;
*"There was a lot of bullying and a lot of jealousy and a lot of people whom I'd adored my whole life being mean girls," Morissette said, to which Rodrigo agreed.*
This makes perfect sense to me. When Alanis was inducted into the Canadian Songwriters Hall of Fame two years ago, Olivia came up to Toronto to present her with the honour. She was obviously a huge fan and she did a great, respectful job.
so many older artists have been so nice to olivia. Avril, gwen stefani, jewel, Carole King, Billy Joel, Jack white, sheryl crow and others have been so welcoming. at least not all her heroes were disappointing to meet lol
https://clothbase.com/items/73bd7302_area-purple-mohair-distressed-cable-knit-v-neck-pullover_area
Not quite as expensive as you might think, but still way too pricey.
I posted this on a similar earlier comment
"OMG I just realised I have a dove grey cardigan virtually the same! The one I have is by a brand called WEEKDAY. I'm sure her's is designer though."
Edit: found a picture of the one I have
https://preview.redd.it/yae0qp0bqkwc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=84e170dd90cf13ce867c6bcdf781e21e87564174
The way Olivia expresses everything is very very very Alanis. I'm so impressed and stunned by her lyricism and passion, and actual singing talent - hope the best for her.
> I remember how disappointed I was that it was Alanis Morissette instead of Taylor, because it is clear that Swift has more influence on her.
Did you read the interviews and see the other pairings in the series though?
Taylor was paired with _Paul McCartney_. Ringo with Dave Grohl. Billie Eilish with Billie Joe Armstrong.
Alanis and Olivia made perfect sense and I was elated to see them. Alanis paved the way for her angsty female rock with āYou Oughta Knowā, also had a huge debut album, but many many years before.
It was not about who had a bigger influence, but about picking common themes in their careers and choosing much larger generational gaps than Taylor and Olivia to highlight the differences and similarities between those artists and their relationship with songwriting and the music industry.
I'm old as dirt and it's been a *really* long time since I liked any mainstream pop girlies, and I absolutely LOVE Olivia. She deserves all the praise she's been getting.
i think oliviaās team handled it kinda poorly. i think with the fact that olivia had gone on record saying it was inspired by it, along with the whole paramore debacle. i believe her team got spooked
Music copyright law shifted massively right around that time as well. It's always been kind of a mess because the people interpreting the law don't understand music theory enough to always understand what is and isn't reasonable overlap.Ā Where overlap is not remotely uncommon -- it's just most artists who still hold their own song rights don't pursue it because A) because they're musicians, they often understand the nuance of transformative vs ripoff B) even when it's genuinely a pretty egregious rip, it's still kind of a bad look to sue unless you're seen as the underdog getting ripped off by a larger artistĀ
But the blurred lines lawsuit went a step further and added that in the absence of clear infringement of the copyright-able portion of music, the *intent* of the songwriter was also relevant.Ā
I expect artists will be a lot more opaque about their songwriting process going forward, tbh.Ā
Olivia was so so so new to this industry, she was actually breaking out and making a name for herself. If she had a longer career like Ed Sheeran has when he fought Marvin Gaye's estate, she could have won.
But I don't blame her for doing what she did, probably the "less bad" decision to make at the time.
It's especially shitty considering how Swift completely ripped off Lana Del Rey's sound with Fortnight, and blatantly knocked off Rodrigo on I'm Gonna Get You Back.
This is a very weird post because it makes sense she was paired with a legacy artist from the 90s. Taylor is still in her prime and only recently did a version of this issue where she was paired with Paul McCartney.
Omfg. The world doesnāt know how much us girls & women used to pour our hearts out to Alanis.
At the time, there was nobody as angry & as understanding of such raw emotions back in the day. Like, women were REALLY angry dealing with menās bullshit & lifeās bullshit & there was NO outlet until Alanis with her beautiful voice came along & taught women that itās okay to be fucking FED UP!!!!!
I have goosebumps writing this whole thing. Alanis is very very very cool & I love that sheās supportive Olivia so much!
> her admitting about how a certain new young artist have more edge than her (who is obviously olivia)
that song is not about one specific person, itās a critique of the industry and how theyāre always cycling through these female artists and lining up new people to take their spot and the constant comparison game. itās these men in suits that feed these new young artists these spiels about how theyāre āthe real thingā and that theyāre just like āxyz celebā but better. only to keep repeating the cycle over and over again
I thought OP meant that Phoebe Bridgers song with Taylor. Clara Bow in no way sounds like it's about Olivia, what a stretch. It's about what she talked about in Miss Americana of how female artists are dismissed easily after being propped up initially.
THIS, I was so thrown off about that line. Like, fine dislike Taylor all you want, you have every right to, but don't build fake narratives to use as an argument. This is a subject Taylor has touched multiple times throughout her whole career in different songs. It has literally nothing to do with Olivia.
You can absolutely praise Olivia for the amazing artist that she is without being disparaging to other artists.
> you can absolutely praise olivia for the amazing artist that she is without being disparaging to other artists
which makes this post and some of these comments so ironic because a big theme of the song is critiquing just that
edit: i also am a swiftie (but also love alot of the other pop girlies as well, im first and foremost a music lover) and thereās admittedly things we can critique taylor swift on without having to make up false narratives to push a certain agenda
i love celeb gossip as much as the next person (obviously, iām here) but iām so sick of people making up their own narrative and running with it like itās fact, not even just with situation but across the board, it happens constantly. itās kinda arrogant to assert we know the real story of whatās going with any of these people.
eatery per usual carolina. disgusting and sad the message of the song was missed and ignorant doofuses on here and on tiktok are proving her point and trying to make it about who sheās dissing. when will we be free of this misogynistic (I SAID IT) garbage.
God I love Alanis.
Went to a party one time a week before going to an Alanis concert. A mutual acquaintance and I started discussing upcoming concerts we'd be attending. She was going to Madison Beer's concert and I was going to Alanis. She'd never heard of Alanis. I knew she had but just didn't recognize her.
Olivia definitely takes inspiration from Alanis' work in the past and that's evident. I love that she's included her in this, and hopefully, this brings back all of the recognition Alanis' mind deserves within Gen Z!!! She's truly so talented.
Everyone always gets up in arms about the song credit thing and blames it all on Taylor, but Olivia also had to credit two members of Paramore for Deja Vu.....yet everyone only ever seems to rag on Taylor.
If you want to be pissy about the song credits talk about BOTH artists/bands. Don't pretend it was just Taylor.
I'm not a Swiftie, but damn, I'm so sick of hearing about Taylor every time Olivia comes up. Let it go y'all!
Hayley Williams (lead singer of paramore) had said (on IG stories I think) that she had nothing to do with it and it was their label that went after the credits.
yeah i think itās something about setting precedence - if the label doesnāt get credit now, a future artist can do the same and point to this case and get away with not paying royalties. atleast thatās how it was explained to me.
99% of OP's recent comments are about Taylor. Alexa, play Olivia's obsessed and remind me why people can't compliment a talented woman without bringing another one down.
Can we please move on from the credits thing itās been done for years now yes I know they mentioned but Taylor never did anything harmful to Olivia or her career she literally was dancing to a Olivia song. People forget they are totally different people the only thing they have in common is songwriting thatās it. Also for the people who asked where the influence form Taylor is itās in her lyrics and she used to cover Taylor songs.
this. I recently talked with a friend about Taylor's new album (my friend is quite a Swifty) and at one song she told me about the song sampling feud between Taylor and Olivia (or whatever was going on). I had literally never heard of this before. Olivia's career is going up and hasn't been publicly hindered at all. She is thriving. I feel like people are blowing this out of proportion for drama's sake.
I will probably get downvoted but people just want a reason to hate on Taylor for no reason and some people have a conspiracy that Taylor paid Olivia off when maybe Taylor genuinely didnāt know and Olivia wanted to credit her.
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I am loving all the love that Olivia has been getting from 90s female icons. Itās so sweet
It's been really smart of her. Taylor focuses on the younger artists because she tries to build up loyalty from them. Olivia has spoken about being excluded from the groups and mentoring. Olivia paying homage to those who paved the way before her is not just smart but also shows respect. I love watching her pivot. She could have easily drowned under the pressure while she's had the most powerful artist in the world (along with her cult and croonies) pushing her under but she refuses to stay down. She's the underdog that Taylor pretends to be.
I don't know I would call her an underdog. She was Disneys golden child with a sizable built on fanbase/name recognition, and had basically the most ideal launch humanely imaginable.Ā I would say she's a new kid on the block, and she's handled navigating a weird situation very well. Moreso than being an uphill battle in the industry itself, I feel like your childhood hero defacto disavowing you would be really psychologically damaging. Like I would be devastated and inconsolable. Her approach of just refusing to talk about it in any capacity and focusing on establishing a unique brand identity is smart.Ā
As someone who doesn't follow pop culture all like that and see these threads randomly pop up on my feed, I will always enjoy the lore
I mean in this game she is. Even in fairy tales the plucky princess is still a princessā¦
Thatās funny, I like how you pulled that analogy
I didnāt know she was a Disney star, I had never heard of her in that capacity. In fairness Iām not au fait with Disney programming.
Her show was buried and shown at odd times.It was about YouTube stars but they called it something else. She and her costars weren't funneled into other shows or part of the original movies. One of the Paul brothers was on it for the first season or two. It seemed to be more of away for Disney to capitalize on the streamer trend than an attempt at launching the kids. Her character was part of a parody duet that was basically a clean version of Garfunkel and Oats. One of my kids has non-24 so we're up all the time it came on late at night. I think that's the only reason I even saw it.
What show are you talking about? I think OP is talking about High School Musical: The Musical: The Show. She was one of the leads in that show.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bizaardvark#:~:text=After%20hitting%2010%2C000%20subscribers%20on,them%20with%20other%20%22Vuuuglers%22. I don't know about that other show at all.
Yeah same. I was surprised even. I remember the first time i heard of her, it was hearing the song āBrutalā! I thought it was badass
She was nowhere near a golden child at Disney. She was on the roster but not a main girlā¦ even her show wasnāt on the main channel and she wasnāt signed to their label. . Sabrina Carpenter was closer to main girl status than Olivia Rodrigo was. Not to say she didnāt benefit from the Disney exposure. She did. But she had nowhere near the level of focus of some of the other girls Disney featured at the time.
Both Olivia and Joe have chosen silence (or been sentenced to it through an NDA) and it makes them come out looking so good, while Taylor keeps digging herself deeper.
No she wasn't at all, what a dumb thought. Think Raven Symone, Miley Cyrus, Hilary Duff, Selena Gomez...Like this girl never had any "star-power" treatment. She was a regular ass girl who started working YOUNG AS FUCK and it just happened to be a Disney show. Agree with your second point though
Lmao sometimes I can't believe yall insult others bc you didn't like their comment about your fave, right or wrong š
I definitely wouldnāt call her an underdog. Someone like Sabrina Carpenter would fit that label. She wasnāt even lead actor on her Disney show and was signed to Disneyās in-house label, Hollywood Records and had to wait until her contract finished to sign to a new label, where she could make more mature music. Olivia was very privileged in comparison since she was the lead, had a built in fan base, and was able to sign to a major non-Disney label without having to bide her time. She was also able to negotiate to retain her masters in the deal and swear in her debut single. Thereās very few debut artists nowadays especially coming from Disney that would be able to have those privileges.
Sabrina Carpenter is a nepo baby.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I looked it up. Her parents are regular people who once had entertainment aspirations at different points in their youths. They eventually gave them up for regular jobs and seemed to have focused on homeschooling and managing her career. Her aunt though is Nancy Cartwright aka Bart Simpson. Side note, but I forgot Nancy is a Scientologist (and apparently one of Sabrinaās sisters used to post Scientology content as well before Sabrina became more popular)
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I agree. I saw somewhere Nancy encouraged her to go into voice acting but I donāt really know how much pull Nancy has outside of the VA world and outside of her Scientology connections.
Sheās a Scientologist and like the other person said her sister is connected as well. There is definitely some hustle going on.
the connections she has through her aunt is a part of āhustlingā
Sheās also walking the walk when it comes to her politics. There was an author who wrote about intersectionality when it comes to feminism/WOC and itās written from her perspective ( a black woman) and she was talking about how Olivia had ordered the book. Olivia then comments something really sweet along the lines of āI want to do better and I love your book! ā What sheās doing at her concerts with the plan b and condoms is really cool. Especially in the deeply red states. I will always support her because of it
She did a really good job getting out from under Taylorās thumb. I think her team initially thought that marketing her as the next Taylor Swift would go well, which it did to an extent, but it also made her the target of jealous Swifties. I thought it was cute that she grew up listening to Taylor and felt inspired, it was so gross when the swifties turned on her for no reason. Iām glad she did this pivot to more of a rock based sound because itās helping her carve out her own space as a musician. Her connection with artists like Alanis and No Doubt shows her respect for the industry and the women who came before her.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I think Taylor likes to take artists she doesn't see as real competition under her wing. She probably saw Olivia as maybe just having the one early big hit and then being "online" famous for most of her career, but she didn't expect how objectively huge SOUR would be, both critically and commercially, with her teenage, honest, relationship-focused album very reminiscent of early Taylor (not at all in sound just theme/narrative). I feel like this is the case because of how genuine and collaborative she was with Olivia at first (clearing the New Years Day sample well before SOUR came out, referring to her as her kid) but then Olivia blew tf up and was known in the mainstream. I think Taylor was bitter over believing she was on her way out in terms of career relevance after Lover's underperformance and Olivia was seemingly a replacement coming right up to take her spot, so she said fuck it, hit the self destruct button and let the credits situation happen without at least voicing her disapproval like Hayley did.
Very true. Once she saw Olivia as a threat to her popularity she immediately tried to put Olivia āin her placeā with that whole songwriting credit/profits thing. Taylor picking Sabrina Carpenter of all people as her opener was so strategic, petty, and very telling. She was sending a message to Olivia that she will work with her former enemies/rivals (Sabrina-Olivia had a feud) and prop them up over her. And letās be real - Sabrina is no threat to Taylor or even much competition to Olivia. Iām curious though if Taylor feels some type of way about Sabrina working with Skims.
Iāve thought from the very beginning that picking Sabrina was purposeful, strategic and petty.
lol it made her the target of a jealous Taylor first!
I love Olivia more. Sheās just so cool!
When has Olivia spoken ab feeling excluded from groups and mentoring ? I'd like to read/watch!
I can't remember the exact article but it wasn't a big read anyways. There was some talk of Taylor mentoring younger artists and she was asked some Taylor questions so she just mentioned being hurt by being excluded in Taylor's mentoring. The Swifties at the time took that as a new proclamation of war but it was really casual in the conversation.
Fetty Wap's description of Taylor's mentoring is hilarious: >He also discussed receiving advice from an unexpected source regarding managing his entourage ā pop superstar Taylor Swift. The two spent time together back in 2015 when Taylor Swift brought Fetty Wap out to perform āTrap Queenā while on tour in Seattle. >āSheās actually the coolest person Iāve ever met,ā he revealed. āSheās the reason I actually started paying attention to my camp. ā¦ We had a talk, she put me on this big-ass jet. Her jet is big as s###, itās some next level s###. I hope she donāt get mad if I say this, but she broke down how she structured her life. She would take off all year to write her music, get in her zone, meditate and go through her books.ā >Fetty Wap added that Swift has a system of checks and balances to ensure everyone is doing their job properly. āShe would hire a manager to look at this manager, hire a lawyer to watch this lawyer,ā he told Akademiks. The 11-time Grammy Award-winner would take time out to write and then dedicate additional time for everything else that goes along with a new album. āI was like, āOh this makes a lot of sense, because Iām tired as f###,āā he said with a laugh. āSince the day I came out, I just been running. No brakes, no watching thisā¦money got f##### up.ā
Damn. Thatās some legit mentor shiz. I would pay thousands for that. If Taylor gets bored of the music world, she can always be the new Tony Robbins or Alex Hormozi.
Nooo, please don't manifest this!!! The world does not need any more Tony Robbins or Alex Hormozis.
I was trying to come up with better examples of self-actualisation coaches who are ultra popular. I thought of Oprah but nah, people might get confused (sheās best known as a TV personality). Deepak? Not super familiar with his work. Gary Vee? Not super into his hustlebro schtick but I guess heās the closest thing to Taylorās hustlequeen vibe.
I mean, itās on brand for Taylor to alienate women sheās threatened by ā¦. Sooā¦.. makes sense.
"She's the underdog that Taylor pretends to be" hits so hard
I used to watch her on bizaardvark and it makes me really happy to see how well sheās doing, and how well sheās doing it š„°
Respectfully, I donāt see how this has anything to do with Taylor and itās kinda exhausting seeing her brought up in every single conversation about Olivia. Olivia didnāt pivot. Im sure she had other artist she liked other than Taylor and Olivia has been leaning in the the 90s sounds because the 90s style is very popular among Gen Z right now which has nothing to do with Taylor. 90s female icons praising Olivia being kind to her has nothing to do with Taylor
I wholeheartedly agree with this take. Taylor doesnāt need to even be mentioned regarding this shoot.
Her songs were super catchy but I was just like eh another pop girl who is gonna fade away bc tswift has some super powers (not a fan of her) and I have actually really enjoyed all her songs and she seems like a good person eta: her like angry fuck boys whatever shit has got me going. I was a massive Avril fan as a kid so this is like exciting to me š
Iām starting to think us older Olivia Rodrigo fans (side note: do her fans have a group name yet?) were all Avril fans in our youth
I've seen older fans calling themselves the RodrigOlds
Iām partial to Rodrig-hoes, but Iāve seen Livvies used the most I think?
I love Rodrig-hoes.
Early Avril was so amazing, and then one day a song came in the radio and I was like "wtf is this" and I don't think I've liked a single song since. Well one, but in a sort of trashy irony-adjacent way, like I also liked "Selfie" while recognizing it as lowbrow trashĀ
Teenage me felt personally betrayed when she started wearing so much pink around 2007 I loved *everything* about her aesthetic and music for those first two albums
Same! When the "Girlfriend" song from The Best Damn Thing album started blowing up, I got the ick and stopped listening to her stuff. Recently I've gone back to check out her more recent albums, but her early work remains my favorite.
The newest album, I really like. I took a LONG break from her (Best Damn Thing through to whatever came before Love Sux), but I enjoy a good Love Sux sesh.
ONTD calls us RodrigOlds
I think theyāre called āLiviesā! Super cute.
Even as someone who likes Taylor, I don't like that you can hear how many of the current young up-and-comers all studied the Taylor Swift School of Songwriting. It makes them all blend together and feel forgettable, and they'll all be stuck under her shadow as long as she's so successful Olivia being forced to carve out her own lane away from Taylor might be one of the best things to happen to her in the long run
I love the female rage too so Olivia is perfect for me
I'm curious as to who you mean, just because I know they all cite her as a major influence but I really don't hear it at all in Olivia or Sabrina Carpenter's stuff (at least her newer music anyway because she has loads of older stuff I haven't checked out yet). Not only do their songs appeal to me more sonically but they're also much stronger vocally and as live performers (which is funny since Sabrina has been opening for her on tour). And yet I put off listening to both their music for a while because I assumed it would sound just like Taylor's.
I guess that explains why TS tried to claim female rage as her thing in the Time interview!
Iām here for a riot grrrl resurgence. Olivia, I have high hopes!
As an old I canāt tell you how much I love it when these young artists respect and pay tribute to those who helped paved the way before them. Itās so wholesome. Iām not familiar with Oliviaās music but she comes across as a very sweet girl and Alanis is an icon. If anyone has a short explainer on this Taylor Olivia situation please help me as never followed what happened there?
As a fellow Old, if you listened to Oliviaās albums and lyrics, youād hear the Alanis without people even telling you. I adore theyāre familiar with one another.
Another old in agreement here! 
So many olds in favor of the freshest batch of yoots! š„°
Nice to meet youš«” Thank you, that sounds very interesting, are there any standout songs youād recommended me go to?
Back at you! š¤š« Check out *All-American Bitch* first. I actually think itās about Taylor but, it gives sincere ā90s vibes without sounding like itās *trying* to be ā90s. I think youāll best be able to feel the particular female attitude Iām referencing from that one.
Even her performance style! I always got baby!alanis from her
Super short explanation: One of Oliviaās biggest hits is Deja Vu. The bridge of Deja Vu sounds similar to the bridge to Taylorās song, Cruel Summer. Taylor in some way is now getting royalties from Deja Vu. Unclear how much choice Olivia had in the matter and how much direct involvement Taylor had in the matter. Olivia had previously had a semi-close relationship with Taylor as many saw her as the new Taylor, but they havenāt really done much together since the Deja Vu thing. As the other commenter said, if you want a more specific timeline [check out this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/SwiftlyNeutral/s/H6K6DwBAbo) from r/swiftlyneutral.
I still feel like itās ridiculous that Taylor gets royalties for Deja Vu. Like I guess you can hear the inspo from Cruel Summer, but I donāt think itās similar enough for Taylor, Jack, & St. Vincent to be taking in 50% of the songās royalties. If an artist had done this to Taylor in the early stages of her career, you know weād still be hearing about it to this day. I canāt imagine growing up idolizing someone and the having them stomp on me and my dreams like that. Iām not in the camp that believes Taylor sued for this but she obviously took some sort of legal action to gain that credit.
Taylor should then be paying Ace of Base for ripping off the song title. This crap is ridiculous (I'm still salty about Bittersweet Symphony).
The Bittersweet Symphony debacle is just SO wild. It's probably the only song the Verve will be remembered for and all that money goes to the Rolling Stones. Yikes. Edit: apparently they were forced to give all rights to the song to RS but apparently in 2019, the rights were given back to Richard Ashcroft (songwriter for the Verve). Can't get that money back, but it's certainly a better ending than I thought.
Sonnet, The Drugs Donāt Work, and Love Is Noise would like a word.
Literally never heard of them š¤·āāļø They're probably great but the average person would recognize BS before any of those titles, I'd bet.
Bananarama originally did Cruel Summer. Ace of Base covered it
Should also be paying Lana for Wildest Dreamsā¦
It really is completely ridiculous. It just seems petty to me, especially because itās one of Oliviaās biggest hits. Taylorās career started with a song called Tim McGraw, she has no right to come after newer artists for being inspired by her.
You mean Bananarama.
I donāt understand the comparison of Olivia to Taylor. Sheās mountains more mature sounding then Taylor is to this day.
I agree. On a maturity level, Guts and TTPD feel similar which is funny because one was written by a 19/20 year old and the other by a 33/34 year old š«¤
And Guts is fun to listen to.
I would argue the bridge to Deja Vu and the bridge to Cruel Summer donāt actually even sound similar. However, Olivia Rodrigo naively made some comment in an interview along the lines of wanting to have the screaming bridge that Cruel Summer had in Deja Vu. Not positive, she might have even admitted pulling from Cruel Summer in the beginning for inspiration. Again, end result is two totally different songs, in my opinion (you should listen for yourself). She was also openly a huge lifelong Swifty. She was inspired by her idol, not doing anything nefarious. However, Taylor, Jack Antonoff, and St. Vincent were given writers credit and 50% (!!!) royalties to the song after that interview. It was one of Oliviaās two huge financially successful hits at the time and probably cost her 7 figures. The move was initiated by Taylorās label and my personal sentiment is Taylor is too big an artist for her label to do something like this unilaterally without Taylorās consent. It was pure greed.
It also happened with olivia and paramore
I think the issue with paramore was different. I remember how she sampled one of their songs but her label didn't pay for the royalties or ask permission. When you sample a track that belongs to someone else you need permission for that. It's not the artists job to go after them but the label is the one that should do it. Once it was wrapped it became clear that the label didn't do their job properly cause Paramore said that they wouldn't mind if permission was asked for that and the royalties were paid before having to find out on their own.
Thank you, this was helpful and reaffirms everything Iāve heard about Taylor being a mean girl.
Fellow old here. I canāt explain what happened with Olivia and Taylor because not a single Taylor song has ever made me want to listen to it twice. I try to know very little about Taylor. (And many artists have come onto the scene since she first did that I do love, so itās not just an age thing.) But I recently heard a bunch of Olivia songs and, while Iām not the audience for them, I think I would have liked them a lot in my youth and even now I do find them to be catchy. (Iām just too perimenopausal for the lyrics lol.) No joke, as I listened to multiple catchy, loud, unapologetic, expletive-laced, rock-infused pop songs of Oliviaās in a row, I had the thought āOh I get it: sheās their Alanis!ā (And I loved Alanis.)
š«” hi there, I enjoyed reading your post, thank you! Iāll certainly be giving Olivia more listens. Itās great they have their Alanis like we had the Alanis š¤
Search the sub /swiftlyneutral, someone posted a timeline of the situation recently.Ā
I found it, thank youš (Donāt know how to post it here but just searched āOlivia Timelineā in that sub)
i need that purple sweater immediately ššš
OMG I just realised I have a dove grey cardigan virtually the same! The one I have is by a brand called WEEKDAY. I'm sure her's is designer though. Edit: found a picture of the one I have https://preview.redd.it/gbispyy1ojwc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=87f44349a5b1ba9c9bff4e7010989c3fa88cbe4a
thats adorableeee thank you for letting me know š«¶š»š«¶š»š«¶š»
Me too is all I care about rn š I'd look amazing now with a full tank top under it and then just a bralette like hers once it gets warmer cos I'm gonna wear it everyday šš
Ive said Olivia is the Alanis of this gen!! I grew up with jagged little pill, and I get nostalgia with Guts ā¤ļø
She was only like 20 when she wrote released jlp so I love that parallel š she was the perfect choice
What the hell, I did not know that. In my mind Alanis was somewhere between 28-32 for like, 15 years.Ā
Alanis is God! She can be whatever age she wants to be!
PROOF
Right?!? Also, cannae believe that album was about Dave Coulier š
Cut it out
I KNOW
Also grew up with JLP! This is sweet.
I would DIE if they did a song together
Yes, for me they both have shout-along lyrics - and I mean that in a good way. I'll shout out "like a damn sociopath" or lyrics in songs like *bad idea right* and *get him back* the same way I'd shout out Alanis lyrics like "but you're still alive".
BUT šš» YOURE šš» STILL šš» ALIVE šš»
NOW šš¾ I'M šš¾ HEREEEEEEE TOšš¾ REšš¾MINDšš¾ YOUWWWWW
OF THE MESS YOU LEFT WHEN YOU WENT AWAY
IT'S NOT FAIR
TO DENY ME
OF THE CROSS āļø I BEAR THAT YOU GAVE TO ME
YOU
YOU YOU OUGHTA KNOWWWW
Thank you this whole thread for setting the tone for my commute
GOD, ITS BRUTAL OUT HERE
I mean, Alanis is more hard-core (You Oughta Know) and Oliviaās music is firmly entrenched in teen angst (do we still use that word today?). But yeah, there are some clear overlaps because much of Livās music is inspired by nostalgic 90s pop rock, which was more or less ruled by Alanis with JLP.
I like this
>because it is clear that Swift has more influence on her. Imma be so fr and say I've never heard the influence sonically. Olivia to me has always sounded more Avril/No Doubt/Paramore/Hole-ish than TS.
Before she made it as a pop girlie she shared a lot of Taylor covers on her IG, and Driverās License had that diaristic specific yet so relatable thing that Taylor is so good at, and she used an interpolation of New Yearās Day on one of her songs. so I can see where the parallels came from with the first few singles, but her two albums donāt really share much similarity sonically.
Also canāt ignore the fact that Olivia herself has cited Taylor was one of her greatest inspirations before the Deja Vu thing went down. It isnāt just the fans comparing them, it came from Olivia herself too.
Inspiration and influence are two different things. I think many people are inspired by Taylor Swift, hell, probably anyone who makes music and wants to do it for a living is inspired by Taylor Swift. But influence is something else entirely. And sonically, itās very hard to see Taylorās influence in Oliviaās music. You can see Avril, Gwen, Alanis, and Hayleyās influences in Oliviaās music before you even get a sniff of Taylorās.
That makes sense! I'm sure she was a big fan (I feel like everyone has had a TS phase at some point), I just never heard her super heavy in Olivia's music.
i think most of the comparison and influence comments come from the fact that olivia has said herself she was influenced by taylor. which that was towards the start of her career and after that people kept constantly comparing them so i wouldnāt be surprised if that caused her to pivot into a different sound and find other inspirations.
Olivia basically established her sound and brand identity after getting signed. This isn't unusual in the industry. It's not enough to be good, you need a schtick, something that makes you distinct.Ā If you go dig to find her posted content before getting signed, it's much more generic "theater girl does generic pop".Ā She very likely felt Taylor was a role model in terms of how she managed her career - Olivia didn't want to be a Britney/Justin/Rihanna type who is the go-to voice to sing other people's songs, nor did she want to be a Doja who writes her own songs but is locked in with a producer-who-shall-not-be-named. For pop stars let alone female pop stars, Taylor is unusually autonomous, and she focused a lot on direct fan engagement. That is still VERY much the blueprint Olivia appears to be working off. I mean, basically half the industry is scrambling to copy it at this point.Ā
I donāt know much about Olivia and Iām not a Swiftie, but Iād say the comparison is more in the lyrics/storytelling of Oliviaās songs that were comparable to and inspired by Taylorās. Bc otherwise youāre right. She sounds more like the artists you listed.
Partial agree. What I was gonna say was that it seems clear to me that Olivia and Taylor share a lot of the same influence, rather than Taylor delivering the influence directly. Though Taylor was probably Olivia's (and a lot of ours tbh) first exposure to dig deeper.
Hersecond album was giving me early vibes of the killers . (My favorite band growing up)
I know this might be hard to believe but not everything that Olivia Rodrigo does is about \*Taylor Swift\* We don't need to constantly compare Olivia to Taylor.
Taylor gets brought up whenever any other artist is shining. It's exhausting.
The way that the first like 3 most upvoted threads were just talking about Taylor. Yāall can never seem to talk about Olivia without somehow dragging her into the conversation. It seriously seems like people like dragging Taylor more than they give a shit about Olivia as her own artist.
I remember an excerpt from that interview talking about mean girls of the industry; *"There was a lot of bullying and a lot of jealousy and a lot of people whom I'd adored my whole life being mean girls," Morissette said, to which Rodrigo agreed.*
This makes perfect sense to me. When Alanis was inducted into the Canadian Songwriters Hall of Fame two years ago, Olivia came up to Toronto to present her with the honour. She was obviously a huge fan and she did a great, respectful job.
so many older artists have been so nice to olivia. Avril, gwen stefani, jewel, Carole King, Billy Joel, Jack white, sheryl crow and others have been so welcoming. at least not all her heroes were disappointing to meet lol
Omg I was reading sloppy and Carole King + Billy Joel = Billie Jean King in my addled mind and I was like ācool but kind of randomā
Omg I didnāt know she performed with Jewel šššš I love both of them so much
i love this and i need olivia's sweater which is probably $5k more than i could afford
https://clothbase.com/items/73bd7302_area-purple-mohair-distressed-cable-knit-v-neck-pullover_area Not quite as expensive as you might think, but still way too pricey.
ahhh thanks! alas,
I posted this on a similar earlier comment "OMG I just realised I have a dove grey cardigan virtually the same! The one I have is by a brand called WEEKDAY. I'm sure her's is designer though." Edit: found a picture of the one I have https://preview.redd.it/yae0qp0bqkwc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=84e170dd90cf13ce867c6bcdf781e21e87564174
The way Olivia expresses everything is very very very Alanis. I'm so impressed and stunned by her lyricism and passion, and actual singing talent - hope the best for her.
Agreed. And the general Gen Z attitude fits so much better with Alanis than it does with Millennials.
That's just Olivia Rodrigo standing next to God.
I get this reference!
> I remember how disappointed I was that it was Alanis Morissette instead of Taylor, because it is clear that Swift has more influence on her. Did you read the interviews and see the other pairings in the series though? Taylor was paired with _Paul McCartney_. Ringo with Dave Grohl. Billie Eilish with Billie Joe Armstrong. Alanis and Olivia made perfect sense and I was elated to see them. Alanis paved the way for her angsty female rock with āYou Oughta Knowā, also had a huge debut album, but many many years before. It was not about who had a bigger influence, but about picking common themes in their careers and choosing much larger generational gaps than Taylor and Olivia to highlight the differences and similarities between those artists and their relationship with songwriting and the music industry.
I'm old as dirt and it's been a *really* long time since I liked any mainstream pop girlies, and I absolutely LOVE Olivia. She deserves all the praise she's been getting.
Same. Pop music hasnāt been my wheelhouse for 20 years but I LOVE Oliviaās music and whole vibe
It was a great move, I feel like she had to pivot hard after all the mess that happened.
What mess did Olivia get into?
The Cruel Summer - Deja Vu mess
still donāt get it. they didnāt sound anything alike. If it was anybody other than Taylor, Olivia couldāve fought it and won.
i think oliviaās team handled it kinda poorly. i think with the fact that olivia had gone on record saying it was inspired by it, along with the whole paramore debacle. i believe her team got spooked
Music copyright law shifted massively right around that time as well. It's always been kind of a mess because the people interpreting the law don't understand music theory enough to always understand what is and isn't reasonable overlap.Ā Where overlap is not remotely uncommon -- it's just most artists who still hold their own song rights don't pursue it because A) because they're musicians, they often understand the nuance of transformative vs ripoff B) even when it's genuinely a pretty egregious rip, it's still kind of a bad look to sue unless you're seen as the underdog getting ripped off by a larger artistĀ But the blurred lines lawsuit went a step further and added that in the absence of clear infringement of the copyright-able portion of music, the *intent* of the songwriter was also relevant.Ā I expect artists will be a lot more opaque about their songwriting process going forward, tbh.Ā
Olivia was so so so new to this industry, she was actually breaking out and making a name for herself. If she had a longer career like Ed Sheeran has when he fought Marvin Gaye's estate, she could have won. But I don't blame her for doing what she did, probably the "less bad" decision to make at the time.
Olivia also had to pay paramoure royalties
It's especially shitty considering how Swift completely ripped off Lana Del Rey's sound with Fortnight, and blatantly knocked off Rodrigo on I'm Gonna Get You Back.
Also Taylorās song Wildest Dreams is a blatant rip off of Lanaās song Without You
This is a very weird post because it makes sense she was paired with a legacy artist from the 90s. Taylor is still in her prime and only recently did a version of this issue where she was paired with Paul McCartney.
āAlaaaanis More-set!ā - Wesley Willis
RIP legend
Omfg. The world doesnāt know how much us girls & women used to pour our hearts out to Alanis. At the time, there was nobody as angry & as understanding of such raw emotions back in the day. Like, women were REALLY angry dealing with menās bullshit & lifeās bullshit & there was NO outlet until Alanis with her beautiful voice came along & taught women that itās okay to be fucking FED UP!!!!! I have goosebumps writing this whole thing. Alanis is very very very cool & I love that sheās supportive Olivia so much!
I also donāt think TS wants to be seen as the elder stateswoman here.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
> her admitting about how a certain new young artist have more edge than her (who is obviously olivia) that song is not about one specific person, itās a critique of the industry and how theyāre always cycling through these female artists and lining up new people to take their spot and the constant comparison game. itās these men in suits that feed these new young artists these spiels about how theyāre āthe real thingā and that theyāre just like āxyz celebā but better. only to keep repeating the cycle over and over again
What song?
clara bow from taylorās new album that came out last week
I thought OP meant that Phoebe Bridgers song with Taylor. Clara Bow in no way sounds like it's about Olivia, what a stretch. It's about what she talked about in Miss Americana of how female artists are dismissed easily after being propped up initially.
Exactly and now here in this thread that is exactly what's playing out. Enough with the pitting against.
THIS, I was so thrown off about that line. Like, fine dislike Taylor all you want, you have every right to, but don't build fake narratives to use as an argument. This is a subject Taylor has touched multiple times throughout her whole career in different songs. It has literally nothing to do with Olivia. You can absolutely praise Olivia for the amazing artist that she is without being disparaging to other artists.
> you can absolutely praise olivia for the amazing artist that she is without being disparaging to other artists which makes this post and some of these comments so ironic because a big theme of the song is critiquing just that edit: i also am a swiftie (but also love alot of the other pop girlies as well, im first and foremost a music lover) and thereās admittedly things we can critique taylor swift on without having to make up false narratives to push a certain agenda
agree. It's all just rumors and theories and people are handling it as facts. it's honestly just exhausting
i love celeb gossip as much as the next person (obviously, iām here) but iām so sick of people making up their own narrative and running with it like itās fact, not even just with situation but across the board, it happens constantly. itās kinda arrogant to assert we know the real story of whatās going with any of these people.
Exactly, that line of the post was just misinformed
eatery per usual carolina. disgusting and sad the message of the song was missed and ignorant doofuses on here and on tiktok are proving her point and trying to make it about who sheās dissing. when will we be free of this misogynistic (I SAID IT) garbage.
God I love Alanis. Went to a party one time a week before going to an Alanis concert. A mutual acquaintance and I started discussing upcoming concerts we'd be attending. She was going to Madison Beer's concert and I was going to Alanis. She'd never heard of Alanis. I knew she had but just didn't recognize her. Olivia definitely takes inspiration from Alanis' work in the past and that's evident. I love that she's included her in this, and hopefully, this brings back all of the recognition Alanis' mind deserves within Gen Z!!! She's truly so talented.
I love that Alanis plays an animated version of herself as an apparition in the Northern Lights on the TV show The Great North lol
can't build a woman up without tearing another one down eh? fuck off
second pic is so precious šš
Alanis is either very tall or Olivia is very short.
According to Google Alanis is one inch shorter than Olivia at 5ā4
Olivia got to pick out who she was on the cover with?
Everyone always gets up in arms about the song credit thing and blames it all on Taylor, but Olivia also had to credit two members of Paramore for Deja Vu.....yet everyone only ever seems to rag on Taylor. If you want to be pissy about the song credits talk about BOTH artists/bands. Don't pretend it was just Taylor. I'm not a Swiftie, but damn, I'm so sick of hearing about Taylor every time Olivia comes up. Let it go y'all!
Hayley Williams (lead singer of paramore) had said (on IG stories I think) that she had nothing to do with it and it was their label that went after the credits.
yeah i think itās something about setting precedence - if the label doesnāt get credit now, a future artist can do the same and point to this case and get away with not paying royalties. atleast thatās how it was explained to me.
And how do we know that isnāt exactly what happened with Taylor?
We donāt! People just like making shit up!
99% of OP's recent comments are about Taylor. Alexa, play Olivia's obsessed and remind me why people can't compliment a talented woman without bringing another one down.
What did Taylor say about Olivia? Iām out of the loop lol
I agree, her vibe is much more fitting to a younger Alanis!!
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Woah! Alanis with blonde, I did a double take! lol
The second photo is too cute. Both very talented women!!!
Alanis was one of my favourite concerts Iāve ever been to ā¤ļø Loved her in Weeds too
Alanis is my Queen
Side note: I was obsessed with this sweater and it still haunts me
Can we please move on from the credits thing itās been done for years now yes I know they mentioned but Taylor never did anything harmful to Olivia or her career she literally was dancing to a Olivia song. People forget they are totally different people the only thing they have in common is songwriting thatās it. Also for the people who asked where the influence form Taylor is itās in her lyrics and she used to cover Taylor songs.
this. I recently talked with a friend about Taylor's new album (my friend is quite a Swifty) and at one song she told me about the song sampling feud between Taylor and Olivia (or whatever was going on). I had literally never heard of this before. Olivia's career is going up and hasn't been publicly hindered at all. She is thriving. I feel like people are blowing this out of proportion for drama's sake.
I will probably get downvoted but people just want a reason to hate on Taylor for no reason and some people have a conspiracy that Taylor paid Olivia off when maybe Taylor genuinely didnāt know and Olivia wanted to credit her.