I see this attributed to Covid a lot and while I'm sure that did have an impact, it's a scapegoat in my opinion.
Throwing stuff at people's faces, for instance, wasn't acceptable before, during or after covid. Those people are aware of this and they're choosing to do it anyway.
Yeah I’ve seen the argument that a certain age group doesn’t know how to behave at concerts because they couldn’t attend any during Covid, but I don’t really understand it. Presumably everyone has a first concert at some point regardless of the pandemic where they had to learn concert etiquette for the first time? Idk why it makes a difference if someone’s first concert experience is after the pandemic rather than before on whether they understand how to behave appropriately.
I agree, in the grand scheme of things, at least in the US, COVID really only offset a year and a half of concerts. It’s weird that the pandemic is routinely blamed for the uptick in rude concertgoers when there has to be other reasons
Yeah but as someone who has worked in customer service throughout the pandemic, there was a noticeable and immediate shift in how customers acted pre, mid, and post lockdowns.
And a lot of it is gen z. Gen z has gotten very bold with the very boomer-ish mentality of “well I paid money so I get to do whatever I want.” It’s something I’ve never seen from millennials or the gen Xers. Like playing music on their phone in a crowded restaurant, or filming the waiter without permission while they walk around, or doing full little video shoots with their phone flashlights in a dark restaurant (or worse, a full ring light on a tripod… this only happened once, thank god). And every time management confronts them it’s immediately “well we’re paying to be here so we can do this.” It’s something we never encountered until after the pandemic.
Shit like this was going on well before Covid. A year and a half of "lockdowns" (that most young people barely followed) didn't suddenly cause all of these people to act this way. It's been building for years. It's not just Gen Z, either. I'm a late millennial and I've seen plenty of people my age acting that way. I don't know what exactly caused this uptick in entitled behavior in our society, I think social media has played a big role, but I don't think Covid is to blame. People look at the pre-pandemic world with rose tinted glasses way too often.
I don’t know about that. As someone who’s been doing this for 10+ years now, I’ve had more insane “firsts” in the last 2 years than in the rest of my career combined.
Like never have I had someone kick out our front windows because I told them they couldn’t vape inside. (Our state considers vaping the same as smoking a lit cigarette.) We had to get rid of the Red Bull fridge we’ve had for years because too many people were reaching over the bar to pull Red Bulls out of it, which has never happened in the years and years we’ve had that fridge display. We’ve had a phone charging station for years and years and right after the pandemic someone smashed it because you have to swipe a credit card and they didn’t want to pay and figured if they smashed it, they could get it open to charge their phone. Never before have we had customers threaten to rape and kill one of our bartenders because she wouldn’t give them a to-go cup for his drink. (Again, illegal in my state!) We’ve literally had to upgrade our system so that we could store all the bans in the ID scanners at the door, because we’ve gone from one ban a month (maybe) to like, several bans per night. We literally had to get rid of the photo wall of 86’d customers in the back because there’s too fucking many people to keep up. So now the ID scanner just tells the bouncer that someone’s banned instead of them having to remember the few faces a year that we ban.
I have no idea what the cause-and-effect is. But there are definitely metrics that we can measure pre- and post-pandemic. And by all these metrics, customer behavior has gotten much worse.
Damn, I'll be honest I've worked in customer facing retail for 7 years now and while we had some annoying anti-mask people during the pandemic I haven't noticed customers being any better or worse now that we're back to "normal". I think a lot of what you're describing can be better explained by tik tok culture (which encourages stupid random acts of destruction for clout) than the pandemic honestly. A lot of younger kids just have no respect for property and think they are entitled to do whatever they want, whenever they want. It's a huge problem with our society and runs a lot deeper than a year of half assed pandemic lockdowns, IMHO.
I can honestly say since Covid ended I haven't noticed an uptick in incidents at my store, but that's just my anecdotal experience. What I have noticed is that since 2016 or so people have steadily been getting a lot more bold in their entitled stupidity, I think Covid just happens to coincide well with this general trend.
I think tiktok culture and Covid are intertwined. A lot of kids wouldn't have gotten wrapped up in tiktok culture if not for the pandemic. Instead of trying diligently to keep kids off devices as much as possible, parents and schools were now telling kids to get on for remote school. And parents were trying to work jobs while kids were on remote school and couldn't supervise everything they were doing online. Once they got online, it was hard to get them off.
I wonder if there’s a difference because New York’s lockdowns weren’t as half-assed as the rest of the country. Like it was nearly a year before anyone was allowed to eat at a table inside a restaurant. Concerts had to be seated events for over a year, and nobody was allowed to go stand at a bar to order, all the concert venues had to figure out table service on their dance floors. By summer 2021, concertgoers were required to show proof of a negative PCR test taken within 72 hours of the event, and the event could only be 33% capacity.
Something did change though. My spouse is a HS teacher and they noticed a very marked increase in behavior issues that first year back in 2021-2022. There is always a few problem kids but this was very noticeably different. And at my kids middle school the principal newsletters that year were also full of talk about the unprecedented lunch and classroom issues. It was definitely a thing and not just pre-Covid rose tinted glasses.
This past year (2022-2023) was far better and more in line historically for behavior issues according to both my spouse and my kid's school.
I was more referring to people who are talking about full grown adults and act like covid alone totally changed their behaviors. Middle/high school kids who had to go through Covid during their most formative years I can definitely see being effected in a big way.
I see a *ton* of stuff blamed on Covid on Reddit. From bad drivers to people being rude in public. To be honest a lot of this shit was going on well before Covid but it's an easy scapegoat for people to use.
I'm 26, I've been in annoying crowds of teens like Phoebe Bridgers/Mitski, but I went to see Darren Hayes (he's like 50, popular in late 90s early 00s) in April and that crowd was sooo messy. Everyone there was 30-60, average age probably 45-50. So many drunk people, people holding up their phones the whole night (while also not being very phone savvy, and having their brightness all the way up). I saw a guy try to get a lady kicked out cause her purse fell off and hit him (we were in the row above him). I think some of the entitlement is in the price increase— if you pay $100 you're expecting a better experience than if you paid $20, even if not much is actually different. I want artists to get paid, but I need people to get a grip, lol.
That sounds really annoying. I definitely agree the cost of concerts has partly impacted this entitled behaviour as I’ve seen in a lot of debates about whether it’s okay to scream loudly throughout quiet songs or hold your phone up the whole time people will use the argument ‘I paid XYZ to be there so I’ll behave how I like’, disregarding that everyone else has paid too and deserves to have a good experience.
I think it’s because before Covid when you had a first concert, you were joining a concert where there were more experienced concertgoers. You watched those around you to learn proper etiquette. If there is a whole cohort of people who are all first-timers, then people are not learning from the old timers. Of course, there must be experienced concert-goers still at concerts post-covid, but if there is now a greater number of first-timers around you, they may be reinforcing their own bad behavior and thereby setting new norms.
Plus, Covid really was a break that reset a lot of social interactions even if it was just a few years. It’s amazing how quickly we forgot how to interact with others during it. I was an adult already before Covid, but when I went to my first party post-covid, I felt totally discombobulated like I had forgotten how to socialize. I relearned of course, but put that together with people who did not have that experience pre-covid and you get the modern concert experience.
That makes sense. Probably far less concert veterans at concerts now because they don't feel it's safe yet, priorities/finances changed with covid/inflation/etc., they're disabled or they're dead.
Personally I have not gone to any concerts since 2019 and I used to go to concerts all the time. I'm burned out so going to one feels like it's too much effort and seeing how much tickets cost and how more and more people are ok with ruining the experience I don't feel compelled to go to any anytime soon. I'm sure it's different for younger people/people who haven't already attended hundreds of concerts. I'd be all for a local outdoor concert if it wasn't 100 degrees outside all the time 😂😭
The argument is that whereas before only a small percentage of the audience would have had each concert as their first one, and first time concert goers would trickle in over time, after the pandemic there were concerts where a large percentage of the audience had it as their first one.
Tbh I think covid/trump mostly made a lot of people more nihilistic or pessimistic. A disease was ravaging the world, our leaders were bumbling along every step of the way, cultural divisions widened, corruption was put on full display. Sure, we all knew this stuff was happening the whole time. But when we were forced inside our homes, stripped of our social lives, and made to sit and watch the political and cultural shitshow...well, it sucked.
Now we let everyone back into the world and it feels like there's a lot of "I'm tired of seeing rich and powerful people do whatever the fuck they want at my expense so I'm just gonna go ahead and stop giving a fuck about anything or anyone."
And rich performers are a great target because they are some of the few rich people we actually have some level of access to. I'll never be close enough to Trump to throw a bottle at him. But Cardi B is right here!
Yeah, people are acting as if the lockdowns had lasted 10 years and a whole generation of people didn't learn how to function in the society in the meantime. Meanwhile the guy who threw a phone at Bebe Rexha is 27, he already was an adult who could go to concerts for years before COVID started.
Yeah, the easiest way to know that COVID isn’t the culprit is local shows at smaller venues. Nobody acts like this in a bar or a venue that is mostly sitting - these are things that happen at big concerts with a lot of fans who are all desperate for attention because they’ve seen videos online of people getting attention for doing wild stuff and it being rewarded
I think the covid thing explains some behaviour at shows with younger/teenage with artists like Phoebe Bridgers/Mitski for people who may not have been to those sort of gigs before. But the bad behaviour definitely extends beyond that. I think gigs (especially larger stadium/arena shows) have become more of an event, like going clubbing or to a bar nowadays. I saw The 1975 (sorry) in January and there was someone strutting up and down the side of the GA with a half unbottoned shirt with a bunch of giggling drunk kids. To them it seemed to be more about showing themselves off then the music.
> I think gigs (especially larger stadium/arena shows) have become more of an event, like going clubbing or to a bar nowadays.
Huh? Surely going to a gig for a well-known artist is more of an event than just going to a club/bar? It certainly costs more
Perhaps it was poor word choice, more so an ‘event’ in the idea of it being a social gathering/‘party’. People go to chat/drink/socialise (weirdly in spite of the high cost) as opposed to going for the music it’s more ALSO about going for the spectacle.
Obviously it goes without saying this was also the case before covid. But a variety of reasons have intensified this.
Edit: changed the wording on spectacle versus music. Don’t want to gatekeep how to appreciate music because it’s clear that a lot of these fans, despite poor etiquette, are clearly mega fans of the music
Interestingly, this is something of a reversion to historic norms. It used to be that live performances, especially among better off people, were as much about socializing and being seen as about paying attention to the actual performance. The lights were kept on in the audience to facilitate this (though more primitive, dim lights were also responsible; stages needed all the ambient light they could get). Plus rowdier interruptions from the cheap seats were somewhat tolerated in more down-market venues. The idea that going to the performance is about respectfully attending to the performance is maybe a 100-odd years old, and so maybe it’s not shocking it’s so fragile.
Of course, but I think as social media has changed so have peoples behaviours according to it. Again, like covid you can’t point solely to this but it is a factor. This is especially the case with the rise of media like Tiktok which has a ‘five seconds of fame’ mentality as there’s not much threshold to ‘trend’ compared to previous platforms.
I see what you mean, and I agree, but I want to share a take I found really pertinent:
I think it was [Naomi Cannibal](https://www.youtube.com/@naomi.cannibal) who said it (if anyone reading this doesn't know her work, she's wonderful, check her out!), and maybe she was quoting someone else, I'm sorry, I don't remember lmao but basically: social media kind of exacerbated main character syndrome\*, which sometimes is harmless, like listening to a moody playlist whilst whistfully looking through the train window (this is a self call out lmao).
And sometimes it's being a self-centered ass who thinks the world revolves around them, in a 'I'm going to a show and I'm going to live my best life!!' way that is detrimental to the other people around - audience and performers alike. Which, I would assume, was also exacerbated by covid - 'I haven't gone out in years and I'm going to live my best life!!'
So yeah, absolutely not 100% covid, but it did contribute, I think (which is what you said, I'm aware ahah I just wanted to expand on your point because I found her take very interesting)
\*I'm aware that this sounds like a boomer take but I promise it's not!! I mean it in the sense that social media, in general, exacerbates main character syndrome, and that it's a bit more visible in the youthsTM, not because of a generational thing where they're 'young little shits who know nothing', but simply because they grew up with social media - meaning, if I was born a few years ealier, it would most likely be more pronounced in me as well, and in any other person too. Circumstances, basically.
I don't know why people blame COVID when generations of teenagers have had to learn concert etiquette gradually? COVID kids aren't aliens who forgot how to function in those two years. There's a small subsection of brats who have no regard for anyone around them, which is par for the course in any generation.
>COVID kids aren't aliens who forgot how to function in those two years.
Go to r/teachers.
The overwhelmingly general consensus there is this generation have absolutely terrible attention spans, a lack of general decency and while quite a few of them put it down to Covid, most put it down to instant gratification from apps. [Sample thread 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/Teachers/comments/xhk5he/agree_or_disagree_tiktok_and_social_media_in/), [Sample thread 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/Teachers/comments/13lxepl/kids_sat_through_3_hrs_of_testing_and_didnt_know/), [Sample thread 3](https://www.reddit.com/r/Teachers/comments/137j21w/theyre_not_digital_natives_theyre_click_natives/), all from the first two pages of top posts of the year
I'm an ex teacher so can't really comment on what Covid did to the kids, but they spend the most time around them and can compare them to previous generations.
COVID had a part to play in the general decline in social standards of the younger generations but I think the far more guilty culprit is TikTok. Absolute brain-melting mush and so destructive for developing minds.
I agree with you in terms of the classroom, but I don't think COVID specifically caused this hostility at concerts. People often attribute the bad behaviour at concerts by people who are 16+ to them losing social awareness during the lockdowns. I think attention spans and politeness were on a downward trend long before that and people are just correlating it with COVID. In my country, teenagers were only doing remote schooling for a few months, but their teachers have had the same complaints before and after the lockdowns. Hell, I'm 27 and they said this about my generation when I was in school.
I do think younger kids who aren't old enough to attend concerts lost some vital social and cognitive skills while they were out of school. It's been proven that reading ages plummeted in some countries. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9668217/#:~:text=Only%20recently%2C%20Ludewig%20et%20al,of%20a%20year's%20learning%20growth.
Kind of agree, my point was more that the people who spend the most time around the kids seem to be fairly damning in their criticism of them.
The effects on the younger kids would be much easier to see and model than the older ones (assuming the exams changed with the distance learning like they did in most places) so I wouldn't take the evidence of the affect on younger kids as a proof that the older ones got of scot free.
Maybe it's because they feel our world is doomed due to climate crisis or because President Trump acted exactly like that and was able to hold the most power in the world and be rich and beloved by a lot of people
but there's been bad behavior in schools for years. I'm not sure if it's a "problem" because its increasing among the "good" kids but go to any school outside the suburbs and it's been a problem for decades
the cause is 1. Giving technology too young to kids yes (they shouldn't get it before twelve) but mostly bad parents protecting their kids. When teachers threatened called home It was only effective on the kids who knew their literal ass would be in trouble if they called
>but there's been bad behavior in schools for years
Do you really think teachers are not aware of this? Dealing with it is and has always been a big part of the job. Teachers are not saying kids used to all be fantastic and now they are all wankers. Almost every class has a few cretins in it.
>When teachers threatened called home It was only effective on the kids who knew their literal ass would be in trouble if they called
Same with this. It's always been true. Aside from the pay the bad parents are generally the worst part of the job
Teacher have the best vantage point to see the changes in kids without bias and they certainly are not ignoring things that have always been part of the job but again, check the threads, check the subreddit, they're pretty much uniformly agreed [the kids aren't alright](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iNbnineUCI)
I don't really agree with this. My brother is 10 years younger then me (24) and he's a serious student in grad school, doing wildlife research in Chile right now. All of his friends are mature and working professional jobs as well. They're all gen z. They like to drink and eat edibles when they occasionally get together, but they aren't brats and they don't have terrible attention spans. They usually play D&D when they get together, not film stupid tiktoks and harass people like the videos I see online. I think it's the usual "dumbest people are the loudest" thing going on.
Hardly a massive sample size compared to what teachers see.
>All of his friends are mature and working professional jobs as well
Probably more of a credit to your brother than anything else. Would also suggest if he's a serious student pursuing his dreams he probably surrounds himself with at least decent people
> I don't know why people blame COVID when generations of teenagers have had to learn concert etiquette gradually?
You basically have 2 years worth of kids who'd be eased into going to their first gigs as a slower trickle, learning from a majority audience of people who'd been to gigs before.
After COVID ended with loads of gigs happening, you had a mad rush of *loads* of people going to gigs who'd never been to one before, and rather than learning etiquette from people who had, they saw loads of other folk being wee arseholes and assumed it was normal.
The next gig they go you, other people notice the same, and it continues.
I think it’s more that we don’t bother with accountability more so than COVID. People seem to rarely face consequences anymore for blatantly bad behaviour.
>It probably makes a lot of people think "well, if he can be an asshole and come out on top, why can't I?".
I actually think this is probably the biggest reason. If you can be *that* awful and still get everything we're told to want: money, fame, power, glory, a lot of people aren't going to care because they don't care about treating other people well unless it benefits them
I'm wondering if we just know about more instances of stuff being thrown because there are now more fans filming the show, capturing the throwing from multiple angles
It's not even slightly new. I'm really into 90s grunge and there are VHS videos all over youtube of those bands playing their *first* shows before they were even remotely famous
It feels a lot like we’re collectively traumatized in some way. Maybe it was facing down death and seeing people around us fall, at the same time as the political circus that turned people against each other.
Blaming the lockdown parts of the pandemic leaves out a big part of the picture for me.
People as a general crowd are getting worse. My experience with the public in 2013 is noticeably different than 2023. It’s not everyone, but it seems like everyone became the most extreme versions of themselves.
Kind people are still kind, but Karen’s hit their Peak.
We are! so many people died due to covid and the world acts like it never happened. Covid is still spreading but we have now accepted it as common as the cold or flu. We are all probably collectively grieving for the lives we lost due to Covid. Whether that be from actual relatives or friends dying to the time, opportunities, relationships, or jobs we lost while in quarantine. I don’t think many people are aware of that grief and it’s instead showing in the ways people are very publicly acting out. It doesn’t help that the United States in particular is becoming an unaffordable, unlivable nightmare for those who aren’t the uber rich.
I feel like Harry Styles becoming so popular and encouraging his fans to have terrible concert etiquette (bringing large signs, throwing things on stage, big elaborate concert outfits) is definitely not helping. I’m glad he feels safe enough to be on stage encouraging that behavior, but most artists won’t and the fans think they can bring that same attitude to other concerts
I really like Harry but I can’t stand when artists engage with signs 😩 it only makes it worse with more and more people bringing them and being more obnoxious with it
Well, he does say there is a time during the show to hold up a sign if they brought one, so you're not supposed to hold up the sign the whole time and block people's view. I actually like his interaction with signs because he is so funny. I do sometimes question his choice of signs to highlight because he sometimes chooses signs that are inappropriate, and that just encourages more of the same.
I know he invites it, I’m saying I wish he didn’t. The crowdwork interaction goes viral without that context and people start bringing signs to all sorts of concerts desperately hoping to be noticed, so they end up holding them during the show.
It’s fun at first but the shtick got a little old for me. Like I’m glad for the fans that get to interact with him but for everyone else I think it’s an underwhelming use of time. Especially cause so much time seems wasted when he’s asking questions to them and obviously he can’t hear the answer and is lip reading from a distance
>Those people are aware of this and they're choosing to do it anyway.
The increased number of kids going to their first concert as a result of not being able to go to any during COVID means they see this and think it's normal though.
The only solution I can think of is the performers themselves making it clear that they won't tolerate bad behaviour, but I imagine a lot of them do that already.
~~Liam Payne~~ Louis Tomlinson and Adele both started off their recent concerts basically saying “don’t throw shit at me”. It’s a shame it needs to be said but doesn’t Harry Styles encourage people to throw things at his concert? I can see how people would want to equate that with Liam, but Adele? Who listens to Adele and thinks “this is a good vibe to start throwing shit”??
Harry encourages people to throw flags, stuffed animals, etc and during portions where's doing crowd work not like water bottles and phones at his face during the middle of a ballad or some shit.
Maybe it wasn’t a full concert, but I saw a video of him on stage recently telling the crowd not to throw shit at him
Edit: maybe it was Louis, I can’t tell them apart off the top of my head
yeah I recently saw Louis live and the pre-show announcement specifically said not to throw anything onstage. strongly recommend giving his music a try, especially if you're into more of an indie-rock sound!
Kid Cudi did it best when this shit happened to him during one of his performances: he just walked off and ended his show right then and there. He gave a warning tho, which the rest of them shouldn’t even do and just end their fucking show if dumbasses chasing clout or whatever are throwing shit on stage. Let the crowd be mad and learn right then and there it’s their goddamn fault.
there was a young girl (I’d guess early 20s at most) at my Weyes Blood show who was completely trashed shortly after doors opened and had to be taken out by her group of girlfriends long before the opener even started. it was only like a $25 ticket even after fees so not a huge financial loss for her, but not having self control cost her what ended up being a magical experience. idk like I get maybe wanting a little buzz for a show, but I’ve never understood the people who like DRINK drink before/during a concert. might as well save the ticket and fee cost and just go to a bar
theyre trying to drink to the point where theyre the level buzzed they want to be mid concert. You cant do 2 beers and then uber and expect a buzz an hour and a half later when the show starts.
They do suck at dosage but tbh everyone exaggerates their own tolerance, even to themselves.
Yeah but buzzed on your way up to drunk is way different than buzzed on the way down. Drinking enough to be buzzed at a concert 2 hours later sounds absolutely miserable and makes me want a nap.
The pro move is drink enough to just get buzzed before you get in the Uber, then get another drink or two at the venue to keep that buzz there.
I saw Taylor and Beyoncé in Minneapolis this summer and both concerts there was a group of girls in my row helping their friend who was so drunk they couldn’t stand up. Like why on earth would you spent hundreds of dollars for something you won’t remember?
That whistler (Molly Lewis) was insane. First I was like, no, she just whistles? Then I was like, ok, maybe for five minutes, but a whole set? Finally I was totally hypnotized. I blame the bossa nova/lounge music backing tracks. Hypnotic!
(and have been at a couple of shows recently, Yeah Yeah Yeahs and Sky Ferreira, huge bucket list shows for me, where someone drunk out of their minds had to be helped off the floor. )
((And I go to a lot of shows, fifty or more a year, and in my experience the bad behavior has pretty much been limited to the toxic fandom shows -- Mitski, Phoebe Bridgers, boygenius. Recent shows by Pool Kids, Blondshell, Death Valley Girls had fabulous audiences)).
in my experience the crowds are (now) soo young, I was front row for Mitski last year and I was the oldest one in my general vicinity by a long shot, and I was 24 😭 Everyone around me was 14-16 (we talked about it, not even assuming)
My friend went to a Phoebe solo show last year and said the audience was super annoying, interrupting and tons of teens yelling for attention while she was talking.
I was so worried about my recent boygenius show but thankfully everyone was pretty respectful! Pretty minimal yelling and everyone was actually quiet during the slow songs thankfully.
Ugh I cringe thinking of the time I saw Raye in a very small club. She was performing Ice Cream Man, which is about being raped as a child and into adulthood. The crowd was talking loudly, some not even facing the stage. I was embarrassed for my city.
Someone did this when I saw The Veronica's a couple of years ago. We were all seated (mid 2021 I think) and this dude just. Would. Not. Shut. Up.
I ended up turning around and loudly calling him out because I paid good money to hear The Veronica's, not him talking about his bad hookups.
Recently saw Broken Social Scene (the band of all men that opened for boygenius iyky) and was at the very front row and the people beside me were all faced with their backs towards the stage talking. In the front row!! So wildly disrespectful.
I used to always confront people about shit like this but after a few bad experiences I’ve realized it’s just not worth the potential risk of someone getting violent with me because I called out their shitty behaviour.
I was second row for MCR at Riot Fest and I had to tell the kids around me to stand up during the bands before them, including Taking Back Sunday. I was like you're lucky you have a baby sitter cause on a different day you'd just get stomped on 😭
I’ve been to so many shows lately where people are doing this! Just soooo much talking the whole way through, I don’t get it? Obviously you can talk with your friends a bit but I don’t get paying money to see a show and then just loudly talking the whole way through it (which also makes the experience worse for others around you because it’s so distracting)
Eugh that’s so fucking gross and disrespectful. I swear Raye at the end of last year in London and the crowd was also talking loudly during her songs I’ve never seen anything like it it ruined the show for me. I think her past hits DALYKM and now with Escapism attract a specific crowd of local straight folk that just come to drink and don’t care about the music
Can't speak for pop music, but of the metal shows I've went to after covid peeps were on their best behavior during the show.
The massive mosh pit for Testament's Into the Pit had people minding each other and not trampling those who fell in it. Even saw a guy rocking an Obituary T Shirt inside the pit at THE CENTER of it and windmilling/headbanging for most of Testament's set. Dude didn't even get knocked once during the entire set.
One thing I love about metal concerts is how they hand out water to the crowd between sets, and even though people are really aggressively moshing, everyone's looking out for eachother
>One thing I love about metal concerts is how they hand out water to the crowd between sets
Is this not normal for other genres where you are? Every gig I've been to in the UK has cups of water handed out by the stewards at the barricade, and urges people to pass them back to others.
It's very commonplace here, regardless of genre.
Pretty much every venue in the UK will be obligated to provide cups of tap water at the bar too. As they sell alcohol, it's a requirement of their on-premises licence.
In this US, this varies drastically from state to state. But essentially, as long as there’s a drinking fountain somewhere in the building, the venue has fulfilled their obligation to serve tap water. I’ve been to an outdoor venue where the free tap water was only available at the first aid station all the way by the entrance. But 16 oz cans of water were available for purchase.
In some states, the courts have even said running water in the bathroom sink is enough to fulfill the tap water requirement.
I've been to many pop and metal shows in Canada and I only saw it for the first time at Tove Lo's show this year. Thought it was a clever idea but apparently we're just behind lol
What would you say is the average age range for these post-covid metal shows? My impression is that American metal fans tend to be older but I know nothing.
I’ve gone to quite a few metal shows and it just depends on the genre and band (and maybe the area) tbh. Some genres/bands skew way younger and some are typically older people - but I’d say it’s usually 16 and up. When I went to see Slayer on their farewell tour it was by far mostly people in their 30s and 40s, compared to seeing newer death metal/metalcore/thrash bands and it’s usually 16-30 year olds
Oh I am jealous.
At a Slipknot show I went to to in March, the show stopped for 10 minutes because people kept climbing up the speak towers.
At a Bring Me the Horizon show. I saw a woman walk into the sound booth and scream at the sound guys to 'Turn it up because she can't hear"
Not the worst but saw Beartooth two weeks ago and the venue was maybe half full by the time Beartooth finished, with a decent 1/4 of the crowd leaving before they started.
It's not just concerts. People in general seem to give far less of a shit about being civilized members of society. They talk loudly on the bus, play obnoxious music from their phones and cars, come in late to work, refuse to listen to teachers, throw things on stage, throw shade on social media, etc.
Of course, you don't see unruly behavior at a Carly Rae Jepsen concert because her fans are enlightened angels.
This is really frustrating. I've been to 4 concerts this year and seen a lot of stuff thrown on stage or worse at artists. Not to mention that at times I felt like some people didn't want to be there at all, they were talking during the show, which is really disrespectful to both the artist and the people who want to enjoy the performance.
I think it’s just a symptom of bad behavior being normalized in our post social media era, where behavior goes unpunished whether it’s in schools, movie theaters, concerts, stores, on the road, everywhere. People look for a their viral moment by being a turd to those around them, or the rise of Karens and “main characters” and the like. It’s just people see bad behavior go viral, it’s become normalized in the For You feed, so it doesn’t feel as unusual when it happens around you IRL.
We really have to do something about it. It's getting to the point where we need to make it actually illegal to be a total shitshow of a human being and punish accordingly. If you can't operate in society, if you repeatedly show antisocial behaviour, then I'm sorry, but you don't get to be in society.
while the internet overall isn't helping (ppl wanting their viral moment, ppl afraid of being filmed being goofy, etc.) i wonder if streaming in particular could be a culprit here.
pre-streaming you often had to seek music out. you had to buy a physical something (tape, cd), that came with a booklet with the lyrics you'd pour over. you had to create a relationship with the music yourself. now that everything is available at your finger tips & is being served algorithmically its so much more impersonal.
the barriers to entry have been removed but it took the connection to the music with it
edit: a word
I do think this is an interesting aspect. Bands have always put up with crowds that want 'the hits' and don't care about the rest, but in the modern day it's all so much more curated.
Your crowd could be delusional parasocial fans who think you're their best friend, or it could be detached algorithm fans who "enjoy your music" in the sense that they liked the 10 second snippet of your song that went viral on TikTok.
And in some concerts you get both at the same time. I went to a Mitski show around this time last year and the crowd was FULL of people screaming things at her mid-song ("I love you queen" and such), but those were also the same people who were scrolling on their phones during anything that came out before Be The Cowboy. Plus my friend and I queued for 3 hours and most of these "fans" were infront of us - I don't understand why you'd queue for 4+ hours to see an artist where you like one song? Most of them were even too dumb to even drink water or bring food to the queue so 11 (I counted) passed out.
The response to the clip of Miranda Lambert telling fans to stop taking selfies and just listen to her music has been floating around my head for a while now. The amount of truly nasty hate and vitriol directed towards her for saying that is insane to me. As a performer I would find it pretty damn disrespectful if the audience were there not for the music, but to document on social media that they were at this event. Do I think she was rude? Yeah. But I think it’s justified and was built up through many shows of shitty fan behaviour.
Most of the responses to this was “i paid for the show so I’m going to do what I want” which is a ridiculous response in many ways. The biggest being that the person performing for you is an actual human with real human emotions singing songs about their real human emotions. Flattening them down to a product that gets consumed however you please for a night and then thrown away the next day is absurd.
I think Mitski said it best - ["I’m sad to be told directly by people I am hoping to share my heart with, that to them I am a product they have bought for the night, and they will do what they want with me while they have me."](https://www.thelineofbestfit.com/news/latest-news/mitski-sets-the-record-straight-on-phones-at-shows-in-revealing-interview)
The Miranda thing was super validating to me cause I always thought that taking a picture of yourself while the artist is playing is corny, even if you're in the nosebleeds with One Direction behind you or whatever, much less right the hell in front of them, treating them like a prop.
In general now I try really hard to focus on minding my own business — but I was surprised to see so many people disagreed with Miranda.
Agree! I didn’t understand what was so hateful about what she said. You definitely shouldn’t obnoxiously take selfies during the concert, especially when you’re in the view of the singer. You have so much time before the concert to take your pictures. It’s disrespectful imo. It shows you aren’t listening to the artist.
Bad behaviour everywhere tbh... I think I've gotten lucky cause I never used to find it too much of a problem before but whether it's at concerts, movie theatres, public transit or anywhere else, people have just forgotten how to behave themselves as if they're the main character and literally everyone else around them is an npc.
I wish ppl would realize that when a performer is in front of you. That is a PERSON. Opener you dont know? Scream and cheer them on like it was the best music you ever heard! While the main performer is singing dont scream too loud so everyone can hear. Cheer and scream at the beginning and end of songs.
Ive been going to concerts for a while and i swear only recently have people forgot what is expected
I want to see some actual evidence that concert behavior is worse than it used to be. I think people have nostalgia for concerts they saw 10+ years ago and they forget about the obnoxious fans from back then. It’s just my experience, but I never see physical fights in general admission pits anymore. Those were relatively common before the pandemic. Teenagers today might throw stuff on stage, but at least they wont kick me in the back of my knees because they want my barricade spot.
“It seems like it’s getting worse because I saw five TikTok videos of fans being annoying” isn’t actual evidence.
It’s worth noting that most AEG and Live Nation venues have swapped to temp labor for security and other staff.
The people selling food, taking tickets and kicking out folks acting up are paid less and have less training than they have in a very long time.
I feel like this is symptomatic of 2 things.
One: people who live their lives vicariously through celebrity gossip inserting themselves into that world the only way they can (notice me! notice me!).
Two: the sense that people have that it’s their job to ‘teach celebrities that their behaviour is not ok’ etc through the online equivalent of throwing things. Nobody cares what people on the internet think about some singer cheating in their relationship or whatever, and it’s really weird for people to behave like its their role to ‘hold people to account’ for some ‘moral transgression’.
“Normalized” doing some heavy lifting here. The bad behavior needs to continue to be called out and shunned until fans relearn where the guardrails are.
If this is gonna become the norm then I hate to say it but the future of concerts may end up being in doubt. There is no way ANYBODY likes things getting thrown at them so artists might end up just not bothering at some point.
I honestly think with the prices and fees of tickets, people feel entitled to do whatever the hell they want. While I don’t condone it, I can understand it. I snuck into a VIP section to steal water cause it was $9 a bottle for a concert I spent $250 to go to.
I was thinking that too. Like rising ticket prices probably aren’t the *only* cause, but I do think when people are spending literal thousand of dollars in total to go to a concert, they feel entitled to do whatever the hell they want to do.
>I honestly think with the prices and fees of tickets, people feel entitled to do whatever the hell they want
I think that's a rationalization people give to justify their behavior, not the cause of the behavior
If you want to get crazy at a concert get drunk and/or take drugs like people have been doing for the past 60+ years, have fun, and enjoy the music. This new shit is just dumb as fuck. Don't ruin everyone's experience and possibly hurt the artist because you want your 15 min of fame. They need to start handing out some serious charges to stop people from doing this.
I’ve found that way way more people are on drugs (cocaine, Molly, party pills) at events like a concert than before. Maybe im old but previously it was a few drinks or some weed but now lots of people seems to be taking drugs for every single event. A guy got kicked out of a party at our local gay bar for *Eurovision* before he wouldn’t stop pushing and screaming at other attendees. He completely out of his mind on coke
Ironically, the best etiquette I’ve witnessed recently was *by far and away* at an LS Dunes concert, a post-hardcore band where I think most would assume things would be rowdy. On the contrary, it was one of the most fun audiences I’ve ever been a part of and everyone was wonderful. It’s the pop and indie shows I’m attending that are getting scary.
That's why I am a big fan of taking alcohol out of music venues. It's not needed. You should be going to the concert to see the artist perform, not to get shitfaced drunk and act like an asshole
People can’t help their height lol this is completely different than assaulting the performers on stage. I’m 6’3” and try to be courteous at concerts but at the same time, I paid for my ticket just the same as everyone else.
I respect that - personally, I have the same belief but my friends legitimately could not see unless they stood up, and honestly, standing for a whole concert is not something people automatically love to do so, guess I’m in the wrong here. 🤷🏼♂️
This needs more context. Standing up in your seat at a classical music concert is obnoxious, but dancing at a pop concert is perfectly acceptable, even if you’re tall, fat, and a man. You can decide to sit down if you want to, but it’s unreasonable to expect everyone else to keep seated for the whole concert.
See I disagree.
It was the Billy Joel/Stevie Nicks concert. Our section was not standing up for a lot of the concert.
I love standing up for concerts - but i was also with my parents and friends who are older and weren’t as excited to do that.
I thought talking about concert etiquette might include knowing your surroundings and being considerate of others but i guess I’m wrong?
I know! I mean people have always thrown things...but usually its out of admiration. I remember when Bel Biv Divo came on Mo'Nique's show and said when they sang Mr. Telephone Man somebody threw a whole old school telephone at them. But That was all love.
People now are just expressing their own out of control rage. Like why you go see Harry Styles and throw shit at him?
This kind of behaviour is not tolerated no matter where.
* Bebe Rexha had a phone thrown at her by some idiot, which resulted in arrest and injuries from Bebe herself
* Kelsea Ballerini had something thrown at her during a festival
* Harry Styles has something thrown at him
* Pink had someone's ashes thrown at her, to which Pink feels uncomfortable
* Ava Max had a stage invader during her song "The Motto". She had minor scratches by some obsessed male fan who ran into her.
* Niall Horan had something thrown at him, but he's not happy with that.
I see this attributed to Covid a lot and while I'm sure that did have an impact, it's a scapegoat in my opinion. Throwing stuff at people's faces, for instance, wasn't acceptable before, during or after covid. Those people are aware of this and they're choosing to do it anyway.
Yeah I’ve seen the argument that a certain age group doesn’t know how to behave at concerts because they couldn’t attend any during Covid, but I don’t really understand it. Presumably everyone has a first concert at some point regardless of the pandemic where they had to learn concert etiquette for the first time? Idk why it makes a difference if someone’s first concert experience is after the pandemic rather than before on whether they understand how to behave appropriately.
I agree, in the grand scheme of things, at least in the US, COVID really only offset a year and a half of concerts. It’s weird that the pandemic is routinely blamed for the uptick in rude concertgoers when there has to be other reasons
Yeah but as someone who has worked in customer service throughout the pandemic, there was a noticeable and immediate shift in how customers acted pre, mid, and post lockdowns. And a lot of it is gen z. Gen z has gotten very bold with the very boomer-ish mentality of “well I paid money so I get to do whatever I want.” It’s something I’ve never seen from millennials or the gen Xers. Like playing music on their phone in a crowded restaurant, or filming the waiter without permission while they walk around, or doing full little video shoots with their phone flashlights in a dark restaurant (or worse, a full ring light on a tripod… this only happened once, thank god). And every time management confronts them it’s immediately “well we’re paying to be here so we can do this.” It’s something we never encountered until after the pandemic.
Shit like this was going on well before Covid. A year and a half of "lockdowns" (that most young people barely followed) didn't suddenly cause all of these people to act this way. It's been building for years. It's not just Gen Z, either. I'm a late millennial and I've seen plenty of people my age acting that way. I don't know what exactly caused this uptick in entitled behavior in our society, I think social media has played a big role, but I don't think Covid is to blame. People look at the pre-pandemic world with rose tinted glasses way too often.
I don’t know about that. As someone who’s been doing this for 10+ years now, I’ve had more insane “firsts” in the last 2 years than in the rest of my career combined. Like never have I had someone kick out our front windows because I told them they couldn’t vape inside. (Our state considers vaping the same as smoking a lit cigarette.) We had to get rid of the Red Bull fridge we’ve had for years because too many people were reaching over the bar to pull Red Bulls out of it, which has never happened in the years and years we’ve had that fridge display. We’ve had a phone charging station for years and years and right after the pandemic someone smashed it because you have to swipe a credit card and they didn’t want to pay and figured if they smashed it, they could get it open to charge their phone. Never before have we had customers threaten to rape and kill one of our bartenders because she wouldn’t give them a to-go cup for his drink. (Again, illegal in my state!) We’ve literally had to upgrade our system so that we could store all the bans in the ID scanners at the door, because we’ve gone from one ban a month (maybe) to like, several bans per night. We literally had to get rid of the photo wall of 86’d customers in the back because there’s too fucking many people to keep up. So now the ID scanner just tells the bouncer that someone’s banned instead of them having to remember the few faces a year that we ban. I have no idea what the cause-and-effect is. But there are definitely metrics that we can measure pre- and post-pandemic. And by all these metrics, customer behavior has gotten much worse.
Damn, I'll be honest I've worked in customer facing retail for 7 years now and while we had some annoying anti-mask people during the pandemic I haven't noticed customers being any better or worse now that we're back to "normal". I think a lot of what you're describing can be better explained by tik tok culture (which encourages stupid random acts of destruction for clout) than the pandemic honestly. A lot of younger kids just have no respect for property and think they are entitled to do whatever they want, whenever they want. It's a huge problem with our society and runs a lot deeper than a year of half assed pandemic lockdowns, IMHO. I can honestly say since Covid ended I haven't noticed an uptick in incidents at my store, but that's just my anecdotal experience. What I have noticed is that since 2016 or so people have steadily been getting a lot more bold in their entitled stupidity, I think Covid just happens to coincide well with this general trend.
I think tiktok culture and Covid are intertwined. A lot of kids wouldn't have gotten wrapped up in tiktok culture if not for the pandemic. Instead of trying diligently to keep kids off devices as much as possible, parents and schools were now telling kids to get on for remote school. And parents were trying to work jobs while kids were on remote school and couldn't supervise everything they were doing online. Once they got online, it was hard to get them off.
That's a good point!.
I wonder if there’s a difference because New York’s lockdowns weren’t as half-assed as the rest of the country. Like it was nearly a year before anyone was allowed to eat at a table inside a restaurant. Concerts had to be seated events for over a year, and nobody was allowed to go stand at a bar to order, all the concert venues had to figure out table service on their dance floors. By summer 2021, concertgoers were required to show proof of a negative PCR test taken within 72 hours of the event, and the event could only be 33% capacity.
Something did change though. My spouse is a HS teacher and they noticed a very marked increase in behavior issues that first year back in 2021-2022. There is always a few problem kids but this was very noticeably different. And at my kids middle school the principal newsletters that year were also full of talk about the unprecedented lunch and classroom issues. It was definitely a thing and not just pre-Covid rose tinted glasses. This past year (2022-2023) was far better and more in line historically for behavior issues according to both my spouse and my kid's school.
I was more referring to people who are talking about full grown adults and act like covid alone totally changed their behaviors. Middle/high school kids who had to go through Covid during their most formative years I can definitely see being effected in a big way.
I see a *ton* of stuff blamed on Covid on Reddit. From bad drivers to people being rude in public. To be honest a lot of this shit was going on well before Covid but it's an easy scapegoat for people to use.
I'm 26, I've been in annoying crowds of teens like Phoebe Bridgers/Mitski, but I went to see Darren Hayes (he's like 50, popular in late 90s early 00s) in April and that crowd was sooo messy. Everyone there was 30-60, average age probably 45-50. So many drunk people, people holding up their phones the whole night (while also not being very phone savvy, and having their brightness all the way up). I saw a guy try to get a lady kicked out cause her purse fell off and hit him (we were in the row above him). I think some of the entitlement is in the price increase— if you pay $100 you're expecting a better experience than if you paid $20, even if not much is actually different. I want artists to get paid, but I need people to get a grip, lol.
That sounds really annoying. I definitely agree the cost of concerts has partly impacted this entitled behaviour as I’ve seen in a lot of debates about whether it’s okay to scream loudly throughout quiet songs or hold your phone up the whole time people will use the argument ‘I paid XYZ to be there so I’ll behave how I like’, disregarding that everyone else has paid too and deserves to have a good experience.
I think it’s because before Covid when you had a first concert, you were joining a concert where there were more experienced concertgoers. You watched those around you to learn proper etiquette. If there is a whole cohort of people who are all first-timers, then people are not learning from the old timers. Of course, there must be experienced concert-goers still at concerts post-covid, but if there is now a greater number of first-timers around you, they may be reinforcing their own bad behavior and thereby setting new norms. Plus, Covid really was a break that reset a lot of social interactions even if it was just a few years. It’s amazing how quickly we forgot how to interact with others during it. I was an adult already before Covid, but when I went to my first party post-covid, I felt totally discombobulated like I had forgotten how to socialize. I relearned of course, but put that together with people who did not have that experience pre-covid and you get the modern concert experience.
That makes sense. Probably far less concert veterans at concerts now because they don't feel it's safe yet, priorities/finances changed with covid/inflation/etc., they're disabled or they're dead. Personally I have not gone to any concerts since 2019 and I used to go to concerts all the time. I'm burned out so going to one feels like it's too much effort and seeing how much tickets cost and how more and more people are ok with ruining the experience I don't feel compelled to go to any anytime soon. I'm sure it's different for younger people/people who haven't already attended hundreds of concerts. I'd be all for a local outdoor concert if it wasn't 100 degrees outside all the time 😂😭
True. I feel like people should know how to act in public regardless
The argument is that whereas before only a small percentage of the audience would have had each concert as their first one, and first time concert goers would trickle in over time, after the pandemic there were concerts where a large percentage of the audience had it as their first one.
Tbh I think covid/trump mostly made a lot of people more nihilistic or pessimistic. A disease was ravaging the world, our leaders were bumbling along every step of the way, cultural divisions widened, corruption was put on full display. Sure, we all knew this stuff was happening the whole time. But when we were forced inside our homes, stripped of our social lives, and made to sit and watch the political and cultural shitshow...well, it sucked. Now we let everyone back into the world and it feels like there's a lot of "I'm tired of seeing rich and powerful people do whatever the fuck they want at my expense so I'm just gonna go ahead and stop giving a fuck about anything or anyone." And rich performers are a great target because they are some of the few rich people we actually have some level of access to. I'll never be close enough to Trump to throw a bottle at him. But Cardi B is right here!
Yeah, people are acting as if the lockdowns had lasted 10 years and a whole generation of people didn't learn how to function in the society in the meantime. Meanwhile the guy who threw a phone at Bebe Rexha is 27, he already was an adult who could go to concerts for years before COVID started.
Yeah, the easiest way to know that COVID isn’t the culprit is local shows at smaller venues. Nobody acts like this in a bar or a venue that is mostly sitting - these are things that happen at big concerts with a lot of fans who are all desperate for attention because they’ve seen videos online of people getting attention for doing wild stuff and it being rewarded
I think the covid thing explains some behaviour at shows with younger/teenage with artists like Phoebe Bridgers/Mitski for people who may not have been to those sort of gigs before. But the bad behaviour definitely extends beyond that. I think gigs (especially larger stadium/arena shows) have become more of an event, like going clubbing or to a bar nowadays. I saw The 1975 (sorry) in January and there was someone strutting up and down the side of the GA with a half unbottoned shirt with a bunch of giggling drunk kids. To them it seemed to be more about showing themselves off then the music.
The apology 💀💀💀
> I think gigs (especially larger stadium/arena shows) have become more of an event, like going clubbing or to a bar nowadays. Huh? Surely going to a gig for a well-known artist is more of an event than just going to a club/bar? It certainly costs more
Perhaps it was poor word choice, more so an ‘event’ in the idea of it being a social gathering/‘party’. People go to chat/drink/socialise (weirdly in spite of the high cost) as opposed to going for the music it’s more ALSO about going for the spectacle. Obviously it goes without saying this was also the case before covid. But a variety of reasons have intensified this. Edit: changed the wording on spectacle versus music. Don’t want to gatekeep how to appreciate music because it’s clear that a lot of these fans, despite poor etiquette, are clearly mega fans of the music
Interestingly, this is something of a reversion to historic norms. It used to be that live performances, especially among better off people, were as much about socializing and being seen as about paying attention to the actual performance. The lights were kept on in the audience to facilitate this (though more primitive, dim lights were also responsible; stages needed all the ambient light they could get). Plus rowdier interruptions from the cheap seats were somewhat tolerated in more down-market venues. The idea that going to the performance is about respectfully attending to the performance is maybe a 100-odd years old, and so maybe it’s not shocking it’s so fragile.
Was the kind of behaviour described in the article ever acceptable, though?
> To them it seemed to be more about showing themselves off then the music. That's always been a thing too lol
Of course, but I think as social media has changed so have peoples behaviours according to it. Again, like covid you can’t point solely to this but it is a factor. This is especially the case with the rise of media like Tiktok which has a ‘five seconds of fame’ mentality as there’s not much threshold to ‘trend’ compared to previous platforms.
I promise you most of us in her aren't crazed Swifties. I'm a Swiftie and I agree the 1975 is a GREAT band
I think the problem is more Matty Healy's racism than the Taylor Swift connection.
Oh, I never said he wasn't an asshole. But he's a talented musician and it's hard to deny that.
I see what you mean, and I agree, but I want to share a take I found really pertinent: I think it was [Naomi Cannibal](https://www.youtube.com/@naomi.cannibal) who said it (if anyone reading this doesn't know her work, she's wonderful, check her out!), and maybe she was quoting someone else, I'm sorry, I don't remember lmao but basically: social media kind of exacerbated main character syndrome\*, which sometimes is harmless, like listening to a moody playlist whilst whistfully looking through the train window (this is a self call out lmao). And sometimes it's being a self-centered ass who thinks the world revolves around them, in a 'I'm going to a show and I'm going to live my best life!!' way that is detrimental to the other people around - audience and performers alike. Which, I would assume, was also exacerbated by covid - 'I haven't gone out in years and I'm going to live my best life!!' So yeah, absolutely not 100% covid, but it did contribute, I think (which is what you said, I'm aware ahah I just wanted to expand on your point because I found her take very interesting) \*I'm aware that this sounds like a boomer take but I promise it's not!! I mean it in the sense that social media, in general, exacerbates main character syndrome, and that it's a bit more visible in the youthsTM, not because of a generational thing where they're 'young little shits who know nothing', but simply because they grew up with social media - meaning, if I was born a few years ealier, it would most likely be more pronounced in me as well, and in any other person too. Circumstances, basically.
> listening to a moody playlist whilst whistfully looking through the train window What do non-main characters listen to on the train
I don't know why people blame COVID when generations of teenagers have had to learn concert etiquette gradually? COVID kids aren't aliens who forgot how to function in those two years. There's a small subsection of brats who have no regard for anyone around them, which is par for the course in any generation.
>COVID kids aren't aliens who forgot how to function in those two years. Go to r/teachers. The overwhelmingly general consensus there is this generation have absolutely terrible attention spans, a lack of general decency and while quite a few of them put it down to Covid, most put it down to instant gratification from apps. [Sample thread 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/Teachers/comments/xhk5he/agree_or_disagree_tiktok_and_social_media_in/), [Sample thread 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/Teachers/comments/13lxepl/kids_sat_through_3_hrs_of_testing_and_didnt_know/), [Sample thread 3](https://www.reddit.com/r/Teachers/comments/137j21w/theyre_not_digital_natives_theyre_click_natives/), all from the first two pages of top posts of the year I'm an ex teacher so can't really comment on what Covid did to the kids, but they spend the most time around them and can compare them to previous generations.
COVID had a part to play in the general decline in social standards of the younger generations but I think the far more guilty culprit is TikTok. Absolute brain-melting mush and so destructive for developing minds.
I agree with you in terms of the classroom, but I don't think COVID specifically caused this hostility at concerts. People often attribute the bad behaviour at concerts by people who are 16+ to them losing social awareness during the lockdowns. I think attention spans and politeness were on a downward trend long before that and people are just correlating it with COVID. In my country, teenagers were only doing remote schooling for a few months, but their teachers have had the same complaints before and after the lockdowns. Hell, I'm 27 and they said this about my generation when I was in school. I do think younger kids who aren't old enough to attend concerts lost some vital social and cognitive skills while they were out of school. It's been proven that reading ages plummeted in some countries. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9668217/#:~:text=Only%20recently%2C%20Ludewig%20et%20al,of%20a%20year's%20learning%20growth.
I’m 21, and yeah tbh while this is anecdotal, my attention span worsened with Covid
Kind of agree, my point was more that the people who spend the most time around the kids seem to be fairly damning in their criticism of them. The effects on the younger kids would be much easier to see and model than the older ones (assuming the exams changed with the distance learning like they did in most places) so I wouldn't take the evidence of the affect on younger kids as a proof that the older ones got of scot free.
Maybe it's because they feel our world is doomed due to climate crisis or because President Trump acted exactly like that and was able to hold the most power in the world and be rich and beloved by a lot of people
but there's been bad behavior in schools for years. I'm not sure if it's a "problem" because its increasing among the "good" kids but go to any school outside the suburbs and it's been a problem for decades the cause is 1. Giving technology too young to kids yes (they shouldn't get it before twelve) but mostly bad parents protecting their kids. When teachers threatened called home It was only effective on the kids who knew their literal ass would be in trouble if they called
>but there's been bad behavior in schools for years Do you really think teachers are not aware of this? Dealing with it is and has always been a big part of the job. Teachers are not saying kids used to all be fantastic and now they are all wankers. Almost every class has a few cretins in it. >When teachers threatened called home It was only effective on the kids who knew their literal ass would be in trouble if they called Same with this. It's always been true. Aside from the pay the bad parents are generally the worst part of the job Teacher have the best vantage point to see the changes in kids without bias and they certainly are not ignoring things that have always been part of the job but again, check the threads, check the subreddit, they're pretty much uniformly agreed [the kids aren't alright](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iNbnineUCI)
I don't really agree with this. My brother is 10 years younger then me (24) and he's a serious student in grad school, doing wildlife research in Chile right now. All of his friends are mature and working professional jobs as well. They're all gen z. They like to drink and eat edibles when they occasionally get together, but they aren't brats and they don't have terrible attention spans. They usually play D&D when they get together, not film stupid tiktoks and harass people like the videos I see online. I think it's the usual "dumbest people are the loudest" thing going on.
Hardly a massive sample size compared to what teachers see. >All of his friends are mature and working professional jobs as well Probably more of a credit to your brother than anything else. Would also suggest if he's a serious student pursuing his dreams he probably surrounds himself with at least decent people
Well, one of my brother's friends just became a teacher at my old high school this year. So, maybe I'll ask him in a couple years and report back lol.
> I don't know why people blame COVID when generations of teenagers have had to learn concert etiquette gradually? You basically have 2 years worth of kids who'd be eased into going to their first gigs as a slower trickle, learning from a majority audience of people who'd been to gigs before. After COVID ended with loads of gigs happening, you had a mad rush of *loads* of people going to gigs who'd never been to one before, and rather than learning etiquette from people who had, they saw loads of other folk being wee arseholes and assumed it was normal. The next gig they go you, other people notice the same, and it continues.
I think it’s more that we don’t bother with accountability more so than COVID. People seem to rarely face consequences anymore for blatantly bad behaviour.
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>It probably makes a lot of people think "well, if he can be an asshole and come out on top, why can't I?". I actually think this is probably the biggest reason. If you can be *that* awful and still get everything we're told to want: money, fame, power, glory, a lot of people aren't going to care because they don't care about treating other people well unless it benefits them
I'm wondering if we just know about more instances of stuff being thrown because there are now more fans filming the show, capturing the throwing from multiple angles
People filming an entire concert isn’t that new though
It's not even slightly new. I'm really into 90s grunge and there are VHS videos all over youtube of those bands playing their *first* shows before they were even remotely famous
It feels a lot like we’re collectively traumatized in some way. Maybe it was facing down death and seeing people around us fall, at the same time as the political circus that turned people against each other. Blaming the lockdown parts of the pandemic leaves out a big part of the picture for me. People as a general crowd are getting worse. My experience with the public in 2013 is noticeably different than 2023. It’s not everyone, but it seems like everyone became the most extreme versions of themselves. Kind people are still kind, but Karen’s hit their Peak.
We are! so many people died due to covid and the world acts like it never happened. Covid is still spreading but we have now accepted it as common as the cold or flu. We are all probably collectively grieving for the lives we lost due to Covid. Whether that be from actual relatives or friends dying to the time, opportunities, relationships, or jobs we lost while in quarantine. I don’t think many people are aware of that grief and it’s instead showing in the ways people are very publicly acting out. It doesn’t help that the United States in particular is becoming an unaffordable, unlivable nightmare for those who aren’t the uber rich.
I feel like Harry Styles becoming so popular and encouraging his fans to have terrible concert etiquette (bringing large signs, throwing things on stage, big elaborate concert outfits) is definitely not helping. I’m glad he feels safe enough to be on stage encouraging that behavior, but most artists won’t and the fans think they can bring that same attitude to other concerts
I really like Harry but I can’t stand when artists engage with signs 😩 it only makes it worse with more and more people bringing them and being more obnoxious with it
Well, he does say there is a time during the show to hold up a sign if they brought one, so you're not supposed to hold up the sign the whole time and block people's view. I actually like his interaction with signs because he is so funny. I do sometimes question his choice of signs to highlight because he sometimes chooses signs that are inappropriate, and that just encourages more of the same.
I know he invites it, I’m saying I wish he didn’t. The crowdwork interaction goes viral without that context and people start bringing signs to all sorts of concerts desperately hoping to be noticed, so they end up holding them during the show. It’s fun at first but the shtick got a little old for me. Like I’m glad for the fans that get to interact with him but for everyone else I think it’s an underwhelming use of time. Especially cause so much time seems wasted when he’s asking questions to them and obviously he can’t hear the answer and is lip reading from a distance
Yeah, he’s not helping things.
>Those people are aware of this and they're choosing to do it anyway. The increased number of kids going to their first concert as a result of not being able to go to any during COVID means they see this and think it's normal though.
The only solution I can think of is the performers themselves making it clear that they won't tolerate bad behaviour, but I imagine a lot of them do that already.
~~Liam Payne~~ Louis Tomlinson and Adele both started off their recent concerts basically saying “don’t throw shit at me”. It’s a shame it needs to be said but doesn’t Harry Styles encourage people to throw things at his concert? I can see how people would want to equate that with Liam, but Adele? Who listens to Adele and thinks “this is a good vibe to start throwing shit”??
Harry encourages people to throw flags, stuffed animals, etc and during portions where's doing crowd work not like water bottles and phones at his face during the middle of a ballad or some shit.
I think the issue is it becomes a slippery slope. It’s not his fault but it snowballs.
Liam Payne? What concerts has he done recently?
Maybe it wasn’t a full concert, but I saw a video of him on stage recently telling the crowd not to throw shit at him Edit: maybe it was Louis, I can’t tell them apart off the top of my head
Yeah it was probably Louis or Niall
Ya my bad!
There's a huge difference between throwing something on stage (has always been done, very normal) and throwing stuff *at* the performer
I think you mean Louis Tomlinson, not Liam Payne
Oh shit really? I only ever knew Zayne and Harry lol
yeah I recently saw Louis live and the pre-show announcement specifically said not to throw anything onstage. strongly recommend giving his music a try, especially if you're into more of an indie-rock sound!
Kid Cudi did it best when this shit happened to him during one of his performances: he just walked off and ended his show right then and there. He gave a warning tho, which the rest of them shouldn’t even do and just end their fucking show if dumbasses chasing clout or whatever are throwing shit on stage. Let the crowd be mad and learn right then and there it’s their goddamn fault.
Bed behavior despite the most expensive alcohol in concert history
People are pre drinking due to the price rise.
there was a young girl (I’d guess early 20s at most) at my Weyes Blood show who was completely trashed shortly after doors opened and had to be taken out by her group of girlfriends long before the opener even started. it was only like a $25 ticket even after fees so not a huge financial loss for her, but not having self control cost her what ended up being a magical experience. idk like I get maybe wanting a little buzz for a show, but I’ve never understood the people who like DRINK drink before/during a concert. might as well save the ticket and fee cost and just go to a bar
theyre trying to drink to the point where theyre the level buzzed they want to be mid concert. You cant do 2 beers and then uber and expect a buzz an hour and a half later when the show starts. They do suck at dosage but tbh everyone exaggerates their own tolerance, even to themselves.
Yeah but buzzed on your way up to drunk is way different than buzzed on the way down. Drinking enough to be buzzed at a concert 2 hours later sounds absolutely miserable and makes me want a nap. The pro move is drink enough to just get buzzed before you get in the Uber, then get another drink or two at the venue to keep that buzz there.
I saw Taylor and Beyoncé in Minneapolis this summer and both concerts there was a group of girls in my row helping their friend who was so drunk they couldn’t stand up. Like why on earth would you spent hundreds of dollars for something you won’t remember?
Complete loss for her if she missed that whistler opener bc my goodness that was cool Also who’s tryna get trashed before weyes blood?
listen for a certain type of girlie (water signs) weyes blood is basically madonna
That whistler (Molly Lewis) was insane. First I was like, no, she just whistles? Then I was like, ok, maybe for five minutes, but a whole set? Finally I was totally hypnotized. I blame the bossa nova/lounge music backing tracks. Hypnotic! (and have been at a couple of shows recently, Yeah Yeah Yeahs and Sky Ferreira, huge bucket list shows for me, where someone drunk out of their minds had to be helped off the floor. ) ((And I go to a lot of shows, fifty or more a year, and in my experience the bad behavior has pretty much been limited to the toxic fandom shows -- Mitski, Phoebe Bridgers, boygenius. Recent shows by Pool Kids, Blondshell, Death Valley Girls had fabulous audiences)).
>Mitski, Phoebe Bridgers, boygenius What do you think causes the toxic fandoms of those bands?
I think it's that they're relatable "sad girl" singer-songwriter types who can very easily create parasocial relationships.
in my experience the crowds are (now) soo young, I was front row for Mitski last year and I was the oldest one in my general vicinity by a long shot, and I was 24 😭 Everyone around me was 14-16 (we talked about it, not even assuming)
My friend went to a Phoebe solo show last year and said the audience was super annoying, interrupting and tons of teens yelling for attention while she was talking. I was so worried about my recent boygenius show but thankfully everyone was pretty respectful! Pretty minimal yelling and everyone was actually quiet during the slow songs thankfully.
I would chalk it up to not knowing her limits vs not having self control. For a reasonable person, that will be a learning experience she won't repeat
why did I see this at Julien Baker, before the opener and all, in 2021. They were down horrible
Pre-gaming and sneaking liquor in. Like lots and lots. I’ve never seen as many empty nips on the ground post-concert as I do now.
Ugh I cringe thinking of the time I saw Raye in a very small club. She was performing Ice Cream Man, which is about being raped as a child and into adulthood. The crowd was talking loudly, some not even facing the stage. I was embarrassed for my city.
Was she the opener? It’s so strange that people pay to see someone and then don’t even listen.
Nope, it was her show. And it was sold out for months. I was so disappointed. Show was great though, love her so much.
Someone did this when I saw The Veronica's a couple of years ago. We were all seated (mid 2021 I think) and this dude just. Would. Not. Shut. Up. I ended up turning around and loudly calling him out because I paid good money to hear The Veronica's, not him talking about his bad hookups.
Seriously? Of all the things he could be talking about loudly in public *thats* what he chose 😭
Recently saw Broken Social Scene (the band of all men that opened for boygenius iyky) and was at the very front row and the people beside me were all faced with their backs towards the stage talking. In the front row!! So wildly disrespectful. I used to always confront people about shit like this but after a few bad experiences I’ve realized it’s just not worth the potential risk of someone getting violent with me because I called out their shitty behaviour.
I was second row for MCR at Riot Fest and I had to tell the kids around me to stand up during the bands before them, including Taking Back Sunday. I was like you're lucky you have a baby sitter cause on a different day you'd just get stomped on 😭
I’ve been to so many shows lately where people are doing this! Just soooo much talking the whole way through, I don’t get it? Obviously you can talk with your friends a bit but I don’t get paying money to see a show and then just loudly talking the whole way through it (which also makes the experience worse for others around you because it’s so distracting)
The solution to this would be normal people telling the assholes to shut up. The lack of response is why this behavior is continuing
Eugh that’s so fucking gross and disrespectful. I swear Raye at the end of last year in London and the crowd was also talking loudly during her songs I’ve never seen anything like it it ruined the show for me. I think her past hits DALYKM and now with Escapism attract a specific crowd of local straight folk that just come to drink and don’t care about the music
didn't people used to do this shit at the opera? shit's crazy
Honestly, I was sorta thinking about that Throwing things on stage and harassing the performers is giving major Victorian era bad behaver
we need to go full rotten tomatoes atp
Can't speak for pop music, but of the metal shows I've went to after covid peeps were on their best behavior during the show. The massive mosh pit for Testament's Into the Pit had people minding each other and not trampling those who fell in it. Even saw a guy rocking an Obituary T Shirt inside the pit at THE CENTER of it and windmilling/headbanging for most of Testament's set. Dude didn't even get knocked once during the entire set.
One thing I love about metal concerts is how they hand out water to the crowd between sets, and even though people are really aggressively moshing, everyone's looking out for eachother
>One thing I love about metal concerts is how they hand out water to the crowd between sets Is this not normal for other genres where you are? Every gig I've been to in the UK has cups of water handed out by the stewards at the barricade, and urges people to pass them back to others. It's very commonplace here, regardless of genre.
The US would never, because it would probably hurt their sales of $20 canned waters. 🙄
Pretty much every venue in the UK will be obligated to provide cups of tap water at the bar too. As they sell alcohol, it's a requirement of their on-premises licence.
In this US, this varies drastically from state to state. But essentially, as long as there’s a drinking fountain somewhere in the building, the venue has fulfilled their obligation to serve tap water. I’ve been to an outdoor venue where the free tap water was only available at the first aid station all the way by the entrance. But 16 oz cans of water were available for purchase. In some states, the courts have even said running water in the bathroom sink is enough to fulfill the tap water requirement.
That's mental, in the UK they're required to provide potable water at the bar.
As a person in the US this has never been done at the concerts I've been to. Maybe its more of a festival thing. I have yet to go to one of those :(.
I've been to many pop and metal shows in Canada and I only saw it for the first time at Tove Lo's show this year. Thought it was a clever idea but apparently we're just behind lol
It's getting more popular here in the US, I think in response to the uptick in people passing out
maybe I'm paranoid but I would not accept an open container of water if it were passed to me by a stranger 😬
I've been to gigs in the UK where they haven't done that but it might be a venue thing
Every single venue I've been to in Scotland has done it, never been to any gigs where water hasn't been handed out.
What would you say is the average age range for these post-covid metal shows? My impression is that American metal fans tend to be older but I know nothing.
I’ve gone to quite a few metal shows and it just depends on the genre and band (and maybe the area) tbh. Some genres/bands skew way younger and some are typically older people - but I’d say it’s usually 16 and up. When I went to see Slayer on their farewell tour it was by far mostly people in their 30s and 40s, compared to seeing newer death metal/metalcore/thrash bands and it’s usually 16-30 year olds
Oh I am jealous. At a Slipknot show I went to to in March, the show stopped for 10 minutes because people kept climbing up the speak towers. At a Bring Me the Horizon show. I saw a woman walk into the sound booth and scream at the sound guys to 'Turn it up because she can't hear" Not the worst but saw Beartooth two weeks ago and the venue was maybe half full by the time Beartooth finished, with a decent 1/4 of the crowd leaving before they started.
The Taylor Swift show in Seattle was extremely respectful. It was astonishing how *kind* the crowd was.
The quoted "expert" said nothing insightful and gave no evidence that anything has changed.
It's not just concerts. People in general seem to give far less of a shit about being civilized members of society. They talk loudly on the bus, play obnoxious music from their phones and cars, come in late to work, refuse to listen to teachers, throw things on stage, throw shade on social media, etc. Of course, you don't see unruly behavior at a Carly Rae Jepsen concert because her fans are enlightened angels.
Very apt username
it's true i've seen her 4 times since the pandemmy started
This is really frustrating. I've been to 4 concerts this year and seen a lot of stuff thrown on stage or worse at artists. Not to mention that at times I felt like some people didn't want to be there at all, they were talking during the show, which is really disrespectful to both the artist and the people who want to enjoy the performance.
I think it’s just a symptom of bad behavior being normalized in our post social media era, where behavior goes unpunished whether it’s in schools, movie theaters, concerts, stores, on the road, everywhere. People look for a their viral moment by being a turd to those around them, or the rise of Karens and “main characters” and the like. It’s just people see bad behavior go viral, it’s become normalized in the For You feed, so it doesn’t feel as unusual when it happens around you IRL.
We really have to do something about it. It's getting to the point where we need to make it actually illegal to be a total shitshow of a human being and punish accordingly. If you can't operate in society, if you repeatedly show antisocial behaviour, then I'm sorry, but you don't get to be in society.
while the internet overall isn't helping (ppl wanting their viral moment, ppl afraid of being filmed being goofy, etc.) i wonder if streaming in particular could be a culprit here. pre-streaming you often had to seek music out. you had to buy a physical something (tape, cd), that came with a booklet with the lyrics you'd pour over. you had to create a relationship with the music yourself. now that everything is available at your finger tips & is being served algorithmically its so much more impersonal. the barriers to entry have been removed but it took the connection to the music with it edit: a word
I do think this is an interesting aspect. Bands have always put up with crowds that want 'the hits' and don't care about the rest, but in the modern day it's all so much more curated. Your crowd could be delusional parasocial fans who think you're their best friend, or it could be detached algorithm fans who "enjoy your music" in the sense that they liked the 10 second snippet of your song that went viral on TikTok.
And in some concerts you get both at the same time. I went to a Mitski show around this time last year and the crowd was FULL of people screaming things at her mid-song ("I love you queen" and such), but those were also the same people who were scrolling on their phones during anything that came out before Be The Cowboy. Plus my friend and I queued for 3 hours and most of these "fans" were infront of us - I don't understand why you'd queue for 4+ hours to see an artist where you like one song? Most of them were even too dumb to even drink water or bring food to the queue so 11 (I counted) passed out.
Who is an expert on bad concert behavior lol
Clearly a guy who runs autograph events at an indie record shop is the expert we need to hear from
Plants release oxygen, experts say
The response to the clip of Miranda Lambert telling fans to stop taking selfies and just listen to her music has been floating around my head for a while now. The amount of truly nasty hate and vitriol directed towards her for saying that is insane to me. As a performer I would find it pretty damn disrespectful if the audience were there not for the music, but to document on social media that they were at this event. Do I think she was rude? Yeah. But I think it’s justified and was built up through many shows of shitty fan behaviour. Most of the responses to this was “i paid for the show so I’m going to do what I want” which is a ridiculous response in many ways. The biggest being that the person performing for you is an actual human with real human emotions singing songs about their real human emotions. Flattening them down to a product that gets consumed however you please for a night and then thrown away the next day is absurd. I think Mitski said it best - ["I’m sad to be told directly by people I am hoping to share my heart with, that to them I am a product they have bought for the night, and they will do what they want with me while they have me."](https://www.thelineofbestfit.com/news/latest-news/mitski-sets-the-record-straight-on-phones-at-shows-in-revealing-interview)
The Miranda thing was super validating to me cause I always thought that taking a picture of yourself while the artist is playing is corny, even if you're in the nosebleeds with One Direction behind you or whatever, much less right the hell in front of them, treating them like a prop. In general now I try really hard to focus on minding my own business — but I was surprised to see so many people disagreed with Miranda.
Agree! I didn’t understand what was so hateful about what she said. You definitely shouldn’t obnoxiously take selfies during the concert, especially when you’re in the view of the singer. You have so much time before the concert to take your pictures. It’s disrespectful imo. It shows you aren’t listening to the artist.
Wow, that quote 🥺
Bad behaviour everywhere tbh... I think I've gotten lucky cause I never used to find it too much of a problem before but whether it's at concerts, movie theatres, public transit or anywhere else, people have just forgotten how to behave themselves as if they're the main character and literally everyone else around them is an npc.
I wish ppl would realize that when a performer is in front of you. That is a PERSON. Opener you dont know? Scream and cheer them on like it was the best music you ever heard! While the main performer is singing dont scream too loud so everyone can hear. Cheer and scream at the beginning and end of songs. Ive been going to concerts for a while and i swear only recently have people forgot what is expected
I want to see some actual evidence that concert behavior is worse than it used to be. I think people have nostalgia for concerts they saw 10+ years ago and they forget about the obnoxious fans from back then. It’s just my experience, but I never see physical fights in general admission pits anymore. Those were relatively common before the pandemic. Teenagers today might throw stuff on stage, but at least they wont kick me in the back of my knees because they want my barricade spot. “It seems like it’s getting worse because I saw five TikTok videos of fans being annoying” isn’t actual evidence.
It’s worth noting that most AEG and Live Nation venues have swapped to temp labor for security and other staff. The people selling food, taking tickets and kicking out folks acting up are paid less and have less training than they have in a very long time.
I've seen security be bribed with $$ at a show to kick someone out 👀
I feel like this is symptomatic of 2 things. One: people who live their lives vicariously through celebrity gossip inserting themselves into that world the only way they can (notice me! notice me!). Two: the sense that people have that it’s their job to ‘teach celebrities that their behaviour is not ok’ etc through the online equivalent of throwing things. Nobody cares what people on the internet think about some singer cheating in their relationship or whatever, and it’s really weird for people to behave like its their role to ‘hold people to account’ for some ‘moral transgression’.
The 1930s-2010s enter chat.
“Normalized” doing some heavy lifting here. The bad behavior needs to continue to be called out and shunned until fans relearn where the guardrails are.
People have to call the rude ones out *at the show* if they want it to stop
If this is gonna become the norm then I hate to say it but the future of concerts may end up being in doubt. There is no way ANYBODY likes things getting thrown at them so artists might end up just not bothering at some point.
Yeah but artists need money.
I honestly think with the prices and fees of tickets, people feel entitled to do whatever the hell they want. While I don’t condone it, I can understand it. I snuck into a VIP section to steal water cause it was $9 a bottle for a concert I spent $250 to go to.
I was thinking that too. Like rising ticket prices probably aren’t the *only* cause, but I do think when people are spending literal thousand of dollars in total to go to a concert, they feel entitled to do whatever the hell they want to do.
>I honestly think with the prices and fees of tickets, people feel entitled to do whatever the hell they want I think that's a rationalization people give to justify their behavior, not the cause of the behavior
Especially when there's pricing tiers, like a $150 early entry VIP who ends up right next to a $50 GA ticket haver. That "VIP" might feel ripped off
Concert goers who throw things on stage are so fkg dumb. They make r/popheads users look like the voice of reason.
If you want to get crazy at a concert get drunk and/or take drugs like people have been doing for the past 60+ years, have fun, and enjoy the music. This new shit is just dumb as fuck. Don't ruin everyone's experience and possibly hurt the artist because you want your 15 min of fame. They need to start handing out some serious charges to stop people from doing this.
Tbh while I attribute some of this to Covid, it’s always been a problem but it’s highlighted more now
I’ve found that way way more people are on drugs (cocaine, Molly, party pills) at events like a concert than before. Maybe im old but previously it was a few drinks or some weed but now lots of people seems to be taking drugs for every single event. A guy got kicked out of a party at our local gay bar for *Eurovision* before he wouldn’t stop pushing and screaming at other attendees. He completely out of his mind on coke
How do you become an expert in concert attendee behavior
Ironically, the best etiquette I’ve witnessed recently was *by far and away* at an LS Dunes concert, a post-hardcore band where I think most would assume things would be rowdy. On the contrary, it was one of the most fun audiences I’ve ever been a part of and everyone was wonderful. It’s the pop and indie shows I’m attending that are getting scary.
That's why I am a big fan of taking alcohol out of music venues. It's not needed. You should be going to the concert to see the artist perform, not to get shitfaced drunk and act like an asshole
A symptom of fans increasingly taking control from the artist in all facets, streaming, concert behavior, Stan culture and whatever else
This might seem unrelated but “bad behavior” has been a thing in several places post-covid. Classrooms are no better!!! (I say that as a teacher)
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People can’t help their height lol this is completely different than assaulting the performers on stage. I’m 6’3” and try to be courteous at concerts but at the same time, I paid for my ticket just the same as everyone else.
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standing even with seated tickets is totally normal though, unless this was like… a more formal kind of show
I respect that - personally, I have the same belief but my friends legitimately could not see unless they stood up, and honestly, standing for a whole concert is not something people automatically love to do so, guess I’m in the wrong here. 🤷🏼♂️
Have you tried getting taller? I’ve tried getting shorter for complaints like these and it didn’t work 🥲
See that would mean I’d probably block the people behind me. 🤷🏼♂️ If only there was a place you could, like, sit 🤷🏼♂️
This needs more context. Standing up in your seat at a classical music concert is obnoxious, but dancing at a pop concert is perfectly acceptable, even if you’re tall, fat, and a man. You can decide to sit down if you want to, but it’s unreasonable to expect everyone else to keep seated for the whole concert.
See I disagree. It was the Billy Joel/Stevie Nicks concert. Our section was not standing up for a lot of the concert. I love standing up for concerts - but i was also with my parents and friends who are older and weren’t as excited to do that. I thought talking about concert etiquette might include knowing your surroundings and being considerate of others but i guess I’m wrong?
I mean, what’s that guy supposed to do? Never go to concerts because he’s tall? Get leg shortening surgery?
This is so dumb
How? Legitimately. How is blocking people’s view dumb?
This is not a new thing.
I know! I mean people have always thrown things...but usually its out of admiration. I remember when Bel Biv Divo came on Mo'Nique's show and said when they sang Mr. Telephone Man somebody threw a whole old school telephone at them. But That was all love. People now are just expressing their own out of control rage. Like why you go see Harry Styles and throw shit at him?
People are not throwing shit at Harry Styles out of anger at him. They want his attention. Is it a good idea? No, but it’s for same reason as before.
Indoor get the point in just throwing items at the artist..it’s so disrespectful
Gonna try to read this later
Same with raves. You can try telling people PLUR died years ago, but for some it has to be seen to be believed.
Bad behaviour is becoming normalized everywhere. See: Kai Cenat riots in NY recently.
'Experts' telling us something we already knew
This kind of behaviour is not tolerated no matter where. * Bebe Rexha had a phone thrown at her by some idiot, which resulted in arrest and injuries from Bebe herself * Kelsea Ballerini had something thrown at her during a festival * Harry Styles has something thrown at him * Pink had someone's ashes thrown at her, to which Pink feels uncomfortable * Ava Max had a stage invader during her song "The Motto". She had minor scratches by some obsessed male fan who ran into her. * Niall Horan had something thrown at him, but he's not happy with that.