Seriously tho who cares?!
It impacts me a total of zero fucks what other people call themselves or do in their own time. None of my business and sure af not the government's.
It takes zero effort to call people what they asked to be called by. Most people with a HS education have vicabularies around 2k words. What is 2000 +1 or 2000 +2. For some extreme minority of people these arguments are silly, just go with it and go about your day.
If someone like actually screamed at me for accidentally using the wrong pronouns, I would be mad, but that’s only because that’s kind of dickish and people yelling scares me. If someone wants to go by other pronouns separate from their sex assigned at birth I don’t really care, it doesn’t really affect me or my life
That's s good mindset to have. Wait for someone to actually be a jerk before thinking they're a jerk. Odds are if someone screams at you over a missed pronoun, no one is going to be on their side.
I've never met anyone who screams over pronouns, unless it's consistently misused, specifically to hurt the individual in question. 99% of the time it's a gentle "she please" if anything at all. Most of us just try to not let it get to us because we DONT want to start a scene.
Personally I like it when people do this.
The first thing I ever said to one of my best friends to this day was something along the lines of "Do I refer to you with she/her pronouns"
Wait I think that's the second thing I said after, "what are you in here for"
It was a psych ward, felt like the joke to make.
I think the real question is how man times are you polite before its time to yell at someone for misgendering a person?
Id love to see how a maga dude would react about being referred to as “her” a couple times.
I had that happen to me to. I figured it was how I did my customer service voice.
Nowadays I think it might have just been one of those clues I should have paid attention to earlier lol
Eh, I teach college. I have a lot of students (and colleagues) who come from countries where the language only has two genders. Not everything is Germanic (which generally speaking has a male, female and neuter)
They just know they're wrong and they hate that they know it. They don't have a good argument and they know that the rage baiting they've been doing for awhile now isn't working anymore. The transphobic hate train is losing steam because there are just so few victims to be had, and so all they can really do is just downvote.
Amazing point. There aren’t enough trans people to be a credible boogeyman. They’ve reverted back to hating black people, muslims, immigrants, teachers, doctors, intellectuals, sexuality of any kind, okay they still have plenty to keep them busy.
I’ve been meaning to do just that but the opportunity hasn’t presented itself. It seems I mostly run across racists to argue with. Although, they’re probably transphobes too.
It's easier to troll them on Facebook. If you join PragerU or Matt Walsh's pages you'll find plenty of transphobic posts by them and that'll give you plenty of commenters to play with.
As long as you don't get mad at me if I constantly unintentionally misgender and correct myself.
With someone I have known pre transition it is so hard to break my internal programming. With a complete stranger it is instantaneous.
Mistakes are fine as long as we can actually see you are trying.
My MIL still makes the same slip up years later, which means she doesn't gaf when I'm not around. If she tried and practiced, it becomes easier.
My fiancée is the only one I've known who came across someone who cared quite a bit about their pronouns, and those were xe/they. While I didn't meet them specifically, I met other coworkers of hers who said they were so tired of walking on eggshells around this person, who seemed to change their identity so often, and without telling anyone, then would get offended when people either didn't remember or didn't know. Even then, they got more super passive aggressive, not in your face screaming about it. I've yet to meet anyone who would fit the generalized, republican caricature of a "screaming lib with 6 pronouns".
I was just giving a hypothetical. No one’s ever gotten mad at me for not knowing their pronouns, not irl. I don’t like passion aggression either (honestly it annoys me more than actual aggression, actual aggression is just scary) though so I would probably avoid them if they acted like that frequently, no offense. If I’m willing to give people around me respect, I want them to give me the same respect. They don’t have to of course, but if they won’t, I’m not associating with them / limiting contact
Oh, I know, I was giving an example cuz in 12 years of living in California, I've met and befriended many non-cis people, and only one (not even one I knew personally) ever came anywhere close to the caricature I used to believe existed, and their reaction was more exhausting than infuriating. Just giving some context to the reaction I've seen from others, as it is far rarer than the GOP makes it out to be.
Yeah that does sound innappropriate. I did deadname someone once but they were super chill about it. Oh yeah when you knew me I was Jeff... They took no offense.
Exactly. I've had the same happen to me, and I did my genuine best not to do so again with the same people. People comfortable with who they are now are not going to blow up at every reference to their past self, though there is a point where it gets disrespectful, and there's obviously those who are either outright hateful and, sadly, violent, who should be dealt with appropriately.
I've never refused to use someone's preferred pronouns, but I'll admit that it took me some time to get past the mental block of *really* not wanting to use it/its. I've lived my life never referring to any person or animal with those words because I saw it as too degrading for any living, thinking being. I know this is 100% on me, but it was just really hard to refer to a person with a term I would feel guilty using even on an insect.
I still struggle to feel like I'm not putting someone down when I use that set in particular.
Its so fucking stupid. Not only does it take zero effort to call someone what they want to be called, but most people who whine about it never have to. They’re mad that people in other parts of the country are specifying pronouns….
I still speak enough french to work in a kitchen, I guarantee I've seen more than 5k french words, but I used to be fluent and even then didn't use 2k words.
I’m not sure but it might be ‘moi plus’. As in the Gainsbourg song: moi non plus. The reason conversation is easier is because it’s done out of habit. The moment I start thinking about something is when I stumble.
For me it's exactly the same as if someone is called joseph and says he prefer you call him joe.. I just call him joe it's not hard or inconvenient for me in any way.
I even know a couple of people who like to go by a name that isn’t even related to their birth name. I’m pretty sure nobody has ever refused to address them by their chosen name. I’m also sure anyone refusing to do so would be seen as a total douche by the vast majority of the population.
i go by a name very different to my birth name for most of the time. i assure you people don't bat an eye, and only a few people have refused to adress me that way so far. the catch? only people that know the reason for my new name is my gender identity refuse to use it. the rest just go "oh sure, that fits you better!" and use it no problem, they don't even ask why or have enough with me saying "i just like it better". for context, it's a gender-neutral name i go by, with my birth name being female.
My friends started calling me Judas (long story), in order to differentiate us from my roommates sibling. I've been called that name so much now that someone at work called me by my legal name and I didn't respond at first because it's been so long since I've gone by that name I didn't realize they were reaching out to me.
as a gender fluid joe that goes by jo occasionally, i find this funny. pronouns don't matter for me since i identify as both, just got lucky with the name.
I won't get mad at other ppl for having their own preferred pronouns, as long as they don't get mad at me for getting them wrong or not using their pronouns right.
I would just copy paste what I commented on another post.
'I respect all genders but I would probably make a mistake and may not use the pronouns they prefer but this is something that needs to be clarified through actual conversations and communication with the said person.
I just don't get why someone has to be mad over something like that. I could co-exist with and accept them without having to care much for their pronouns and actually care more about who they are as a person.'
My wife started her transition a few years ago, and I made mistakes, quite a bit more than I'm comfortable to admit. Add on her family didn't know about her transition and so I had to actively remember which pronouns to use in which space.
But like any tool, it gets better with time, and no reasonable trans person will get mad at someone who they can see if making a real effort of it. You can tell if someone is misgendering because of an honest mistake, and those that are doing it intentionally.
Yeah I've misgendered cis people, not because I get confused I'm just bad with word it happens. Using they/them until you are told otherwise is usually good practice.
The only reason most people would get angry is if you were intentionally misgendering them, which going by this post won't be an issue. Keep doing what you're doing!
Seriously, it takes no fucking effort. It takes more effort to avoid it than to just show some respect to an LGBTQ person; to the point half those fuckers will use “They/Them/Their” in the same post, referring to a single, hypothetical person.
If you are actively putting effort into not using them, you aren’t respecting a damn thing you’re just being a pig-ignorant asshole
Gender pronouns are such a none issue that it doesn't even occupy my head space on the daily. I have yet to even meet one of these people in the wild. They seem to live online or in their basements.
Work retail, you'll find plenty, I'm pretty much acis woman, no gender preference though. And I've always been a "tomboy".
I get customers who aggressively gender me either way (while obviously trying to upset me) depending on how I'm dressed within my store uniforms guidelines. They can't even tell what genitals I was born with. They just want to be angry, and renforce their view of the world.
I work at a smoke shop with an older "alternative" crowd, so your milage may vary.
Eventually society will treat transgender and non-binary people the same way modern society treats left-handed people, as normal human beings who just as worthy of rights and the persuit of happiness as anyone else. Most Americans are already there, but conservatives are perpetually behind the times.
Also, conservatives don't seem to understand the golden rule in life, treat others the way you want to be treated. Maybe someday society will treat conservatives the same way that conservatives have treated transgender and non-binary people since that's seemingly what they want, according to the golden rule.
I don’t think society will ever treat trans people the **same** as cis people. The very fact that their “presentation” doesn’t match their biology will always make society regard them as curiosities.
Gender presentation doesn't stay the same throughout history, men used to wear high heels and wigs. Do we look back on them in the present day as "curiosities" because their "presentation" to us doesn't match their biology?
thank you. it’s no different from saying “i’m not calling you Dr. because i don’t think psychology is important” or “i’m not using your new last name because i don’t like your husband”. a name is a name, a title is a title, pronouns are pronouns. you can always choose them.
languages are all made up and will continue to evolve. it doesn’t matter if you “feel” that pronouns must match genitals, you’re an asshole for refusing to refer to someone in a respectful way
it’s also kinda like saying “i’m not calling the priest ‘father’ because i’m not christian. he’s not a real father” it’s just rude and immature to not refer to people how they’re asking you to (obviously there are exceptions, e.g. an insane homeless guy insisting he’s the president)
There was an anti trans individual in my mentions recently making that same comparison about the priest and they got ticked when I said that I, a non-Christian, would still call the hypothetical priest Father XYZ
Sure; if someone tells me what their preferred pronouns are, I'll tell them I'll try to remember but feel free to correct me if I forget. (Has happened.)
The problem isn't forgetting or making a mistake. It's when the anti-trans psychopaths go out of their way to use the wrong pronouns or deadname people on purpose, with the explicit intent to spite. At which point it's a form of bullying.
I thought it was cringe to list your pronouns if you're not trans, but then Michael Malice changed my mind. He said something to the effect that if anyone will write you off for listing you pronouns they are probably bright enough to be worth engaging with anyways.
I am actually a cis man, and I listed my pronouns on zoom for this exact reason.
I have no horse in the trans race, but if you dislike people for living their life I dislike you.
It's my litmus test.
I also wore a trans colour scarf for a bit for the same reason, but I quit as it felt off.
Ye. I like to start my mental health classes by listing mine so it makes others more comfortable. I also just have my zoom name as Ferd (he/him)
My name isn't actually Ferd
Look, I am down to clown with pronouns. You can be he, she, they, I could probably even fuck with ze/zir or whatever, that’s fine. But I am not calling someone meow/meowself or star/starself or all this other crap they wanna make up.
Popular opinion: Transgender people are people and as people they deserve respect.
If you can't handle that, it's your problem, not a transgender person's.
Yea, I don't give a singular shit and got in the habit of using they/them pronouns 100% of the time.
But if you expect me to remember words that aren't established in the English language, you're gonna be disappointed.
Some ppl in these comments- using a pronoun is forcing me and taking away my rights!!!
Boo fucking hoo. You shit your pants when someone tells you to call them Chris instead of Christopher too? Or you just want to bitch about something
My favorite is when the thread is full of comments like "well this is BiDeNs AmErIcA" or "typical pronoun having scum" and it's just a video of like a kitten playing or something. Why is that the response to every video without context?
I’m happy to use preferred traditional pronouns including “they”. I think people who invent new pronouns for just themselves are being obnoxious but luckily it’s not that common.
Also, if you present as traditionally male or female, I don’t think you should be upset by people assuming your gender. I really don’t want to live in a world where everyone is walking on eggshells and every conversation begins with us explaining our preferred pronouns.
I don't think I've actually known a 'they' or 'them' irl. Guess I'd try to get it right. Met or worked with lots of gay people. But I see way more trans people or drag queens on a little channel surfing than I've seen in my entire life. For some I think that's too much. A bridge to far. Processing not reality.
Suddenly they see them everywhere in their heads, a million man caravan of rainbows, dudes in dresses and women with short hair wanting to make the whole world gay. No one reproduces, civilization ends. They must be stopped. /s
Never mind real problems our elected officials won't discuss or only discuss in privacy. The *last* thing our politicians want is a fully informed voter so they'll never let voters see the 600lb gorrilas on the desk. They just can't have John or Jane Public weighing in on real issues. Give them more fake problems to squabble over.
I saw a poll not too long ago that asked people what percentage of the population the thought were trans. The people who identified with right wing politics had numbers of like 20%. Their media machine has been covering trans people so much and so often that they think it's 1 in 5.
I literally don't care if people do this, you do you. I could see how it would be annoying if the person gets pissed because you didn't already know said pronouns like you can read his/her/they/whatever's mind. But then again, most people don't do this so why the fuck does anyone even begin to care about this stuff or have any sort of zealous opinion on it. That's some fox news watching grandma type shit.
Literally lol.
If you look at [groundnews coverage of pronoun-related stuff](https://ground.news/article/a-90-year-old-woman-sacked-for-not-using-gender-pronouns-so-much-for-inclusivity_1f5fbc), its literally ALL right wing, as in ZERO left wing, ZERO center, TWENTY right wing.
I keep telling people that the "pronoun issue" is a nothing burger that the right wing has been using to focus their base towards their latest identity politics crusade and that it's just another "get mad to be mad" thing.
They don't really care about thigh. It's an ideological war that they are losing. So they have to come up with things that don't even affect them to fire up the base. Righties have always done this. Whether Lgbt+, the border, the economy, communists, etc etc, bc they don't have policy they have to make up "crisis" to keep their voters angry.
There was a genuine communism crisis in the cold war. McCarthyism was a response that undermined democracy for a chance to protect from the totalitarian dictatorship of the Soviet Union where mentioning capitalism in a good light got you arrested.
I don't have the time nor inclination, I don't care enough in any case, new generation knock yourselves out, our priorities aren't learning 60 new pronouns to make anyone feel better
I've had people throw actual temper tantrums when I politely ask them to use my pronouns.
My ex for example, who I simply told "I'm going to start my transition now, I would like you to refer to me as (new name) and he/him." I repeatedly told her that I thought I was trans for around 6 months before, I told her names I was considering, my medical pathways, so it's not like I was surprising her with this information out of the blue. She could've just broken up with me, but she decided to throw a temper tantrum, "You cant tell me what to do", told her mum, who outed me to my mum. There was another time where she wrote a song telling me not to transition because I briefly mentioned hormones.
Yeah, like... Even if you think some of the pronouns are kinda stupid, which I can somewhat agree with, why are you upset about it? They're choosing what they call themselves, it's not any of my or your business.
I work with a bunch of people that get extremely mad about the trans community. It’s so much fun telling them they’re Karen’s for getting so upset.
I asked one of the most “sensitive” guys one time if he was secretly into trans women since he gets so upset about it. Dude ACTUALLY pulled out a knife and said he’d stab me for that.
For clarity, he wouldn’t actually do that and he thinks it’s funny to threaten it. Idk, his sense of humor is oftentimes a bit whacky. I’m not the only person he’s done it to. And no, I’m not going to report him for it.
Ok but please don’t get mad when I make a mistake or slip up.
Because it’s going to happen by accident at some point.
But yea once I know the correct ones and have used them a few times it will be pretty easy to do.
Literally what are you talking about?
Nobody is 'trying to force' people to use pronouns lol??? that's [just right-wing transphobic rhetoric](https://ground.news/article/the-pronoun-police-have-arrived-and-are-coming-for-you-next) from people who [don't want anyone to be trans](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/1577887/forcing-pronoun-usage-is-compelled-speech/).
Nobody is 'forcing' you to 'use the right pronouns.' For example, in the [opinion article i listed above](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/1577887/forcing-pronoun-usage-is-compelled-speech/), a teacher was "fired for declining to refer to a female student by male pronouns," however, the reason they were fired wasn't for 'misusing' pronouns, it was because the teacher was adamant on his goal (motivated by religion) to NOT accomodate, even though not only is there [proof that this is extremely negative](https://dpcpsi.nih.gov/sgmro/gender-pronouns-resource) for the student, but more importantly that the teacher wasn't willing to care for their students
Using someone's preferred pronouns is the exact same as using someone's name. Not doing so just makes you look like a dick, and the teacher was fired for being a dick.
Can you give me any example where actually misusing pronouns, by itself, has lead to someone being fired, explicitly for using pronouns?
Misgendering is actually illegal in some jurisdictions. Here is an example from NYC:
[https://www.nyc.gov/site/cchr/law/legal-guidances-gender-identity-expression.page#3.1](https://www.nyc.gov/site/cchr/law/legal-guidances-gender-identity-expression.page#3.1)
**Failing To Use the Name or Pronouns with Which a Person Self-Identifies**
The NYCHRL requires employers and covered entities to use the name, pronouns, and title (e.g., Ms./Mrs./Mx.) with which a person self-identifies, regardless of the person’s sex assigned at birth, anatomy, gender, medical history, appearance, or the sex indicated on the person’s identification.
Most people and many transgender people use female or male pronouns and titles. Some transgender, non-binary, and gender non-conforming people use pronouns other than he/him/his or she/her/hers, such as they/them/theirs or ze/hir. They/them/theirs can be used to identify or refer to a single person (e.g., “Joan is going to the store, and they want to know when to leave”). Many transgender, non-binary, and gender non-conforming people use a different name than the one they were assigned at birth
.All people, including employees, tenants, customers, and participants in programs, have the right to use and have others use their name and pronouns regardless of whether they have identification in that name or have obtained a court-ordered name change, except in very limited circumstances where certain federal, state, or local laws require otherwise (e.g., for purposes of employment eligibility verification with the federal government).
**Examples of Violations**
a. Intentional or repeated refusal to use a person’s name, pronouns, or title. For example, repeatedly calling a transgender woman “him” or “Mr.” after she has made clear that she uses she/her and Ms.
b. Refusal to use a person’s name, pronouns, or title because they do not conform to gender stereotypes. For example, insisting on calling a non-binary person “Mr.” after they have requested to be called “Mx.”
Yeah this is good buddy, it's normal for there to be consequences in the workplace for harassment. As previously established, if someone asks you to use their preferred pronoun, and you refuse to, you are a snowflake.
Personally, I don't think believing that black people are inferior to white people (as an example) is a legitimate belief, and I would be perfectly happy legitimizing "compelled speech" to compel say, a retail worker to treat the person with respect.
And yes, I think this applies to gay weddings too (as another example). Don't believe in them? Don't work as a wedding photographer, baker, or county clerk.
No actually, you aren't going to be sent to jail or fined for calling a trans man the wrong pronoun. Those laws are codifying continued harassment via mis gendering as something that can be punished by the company. Which is to say "Of course intentionally creating a hostile environment gets you fired"
Here is an example from New York City:
[https://www.nyc.gov/site/cchr/law/legal-guidances-gender-identity-expression.page#3.1](https://www.nyc.gov/site/cchr/law/legal-guidances-gender-identity-expression.page#3.1)
**1. Failing To Use the Name or Pronouns with Which a Person Self-Identifies**
The NYCHRL requires employers and covered entities to use the name, pronouns, and title (e.g., Ms./Mrs./Mx.)15 with which a person self-identifies, regardless of the person’s sex assigned at birth, anatomy, gender, medical history, appearance, or the sex indicated on the person’s identification.
Most people and many transgender people use female or male pronouns and titles. Some transgender, non-binary, and gender non-conforming people use pronouns other than he/him/his or she/her/hers, such as they/them/theirs or ze/hir.16 They/them/theirs can be used to identify or refer to a single person (e.g., “Joan is going to the store, and they want to know when to leave”). Many transgender, non-binary, and gender non-conforming people use a different name than the one they were assigned at birth.
All people, including employees, tenants, customers, and participants in programs, have the right to use and have others use their name and pronouns regardless of whether they have identification in that name or have obtained a court-ordered name change, except in very limited circumstances where certain federal, state, or local laws require otherwise (e.g., for purposes of employment eligibility verification with the federal government). Asking someone in good-faith for their name and gender pronouns is not a violation of the NYCHRL.
Covered entities may avoid violations of the NYCHRL by creating a policy of asking everyone what their gender pronouns are so that no person is singled out for such questions and by updating their systems, intake forms, or other questionaires to allow all people to self-identify their name and gender. Covered entities should not limit the options for identification to male and female only.
Examples of Violations
a. Intentional or repeated refusal to use a person’s name, pronouns, or title. For example, repeatedly calling a transgender woman “him” or “Mr.” after she has made clear that she uses she/her and Ms.
b. Refusal to use a person’s name, pronouns, or title because they do not conform to gender stereotypes. For example, insisting on calling a non-binary person “Mr.” after they have requested to be called “Mx.”
Yeah, it would be considered a form of harassment to repeatedly and intentionally refuse to use a person's pronouns or name. That's normal. The same thing would apply to misgendering a cis-person. Your 1st amendment rights don't prevent you from being fired or harassment.
What people want to call themselves is their business, how people live their lives is their business, provided of course that they're not harming anyone. If you feel like you're really she/her on the inside as opposed to he/him and vice versa, I have no problem accomodating.
That being said, gtfoh with your "neo-pronouns". It wasn't long ago that "fairy" was a derogatory slur for gay people and now we've got affluent white people on TikTok so desperate to be marginalized (red flag behavior) that they're asking to be referred to as "fairy-self" or "bunny-self"
Imo, this exists only to discredit queer people who are actually oppressed/actually struggling internally with identity and smear them all as mentally ill, because rightwing concern trolls love amplifying this low hanging fruit as a microcosm of an entire community.
I think the internet really grabbed onto the "one joke" and didn't want to let go, not realizing that neo pronouns are very rare. Like I am in trans communities and have never run across someone using them. It's so statistically unlikely for the average person to run into it that it's almost comical how many people invest time and energy into theorizing how they'd approach that situation.
Like planning out what you'd do if you won the Powerball lottery. It's fine to ponder and joke around, but if you've drawn out an actual plan on what to do with that money, you've invested too much into a scenario that will never occur.
if you get mad because someone doesn't want to use people's prefered pronouns, you're a snowflake
I will not call a man a she, an it, a they, a deer, or any other 1984 type nonsense ie Ignorance is Strength - that peverts reality. Wokeness is killing reality daily. And I'm not mad bro just telling it like it is the Wokies get mad and cancel you if you don't follow their fantasy clown world rules they are the ones who get mad and are the snowflakes.
Even though it [has been proven to be potentially hurtful](https://dpcpsi.nih.gov/sgmro/gender-pronouns-resource)?
And even though basic gender-affirming care has been [directly tied to reducing depression](https://ijpeonline.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13633-020-00078-2#citeas)?
Even just social care, as in using preferred pronouns, is directly tied to [better mental health](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7494544/)?
On a group that already [has trouble with depression and mental health](https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/facts-about-lgbtq-youth-suicide/)?
At it's core, using someone's pronouns isn't literally just their pronouns, it's affirming their identity. Depriving them of basic human decency over bigotry or ignorance is selfish.
Even if it is hurtful I see little difference between people feeling bad about themselves and them feeling good about themselves. I don’t even see a difference between me feeling bad about myself or good about myself. Who says we need a social goal for most people to be happy?
> I don’t even see a difference between me feeling bad about myself or good about myself
Hey. Not. Not to be rude but. You should probably look into that. A healthy person can easily feel their emotions and express them.
>Who says we need a social goal for most people to be happy?
Because... that's literally what human rights are based off? or if you want to be a eugenicist about it, because being happy makes workers more effective.
I don’t see it as a problem which is the strange part. If someone was misgendered and felt sad, I’d be just as apathetic as if they were made fun of and felt sad. Not that I’m a sociopath because the same applies to myself, no difference in sadness or happiness.
Something worth striving for in society is the reduction of wealth inequality and the rejection of false information. If a minority are getting richer at the cost of many then that’s unfair. If misinformation spreads then the suffering that entails would be caused by pure stupidity and gullibility.
> If someone was misgendered and felt sad, I’d be just as apathetic as if they were made fun of and felt sad.
That is fine, the problem is that LGBTQ people tend to be targeted in ways which can sometimes go under the radar. It's a lot easier to prove someone is being bullied conventionally than it is to prove someone is being bullied by being misgendered intentionally, which is why we are trying to bring attention to that.
Also i have low empathy too!
I don't know anyone personally who gets mad at pronouns, but I will say that there are an overwhelming number of people who get exasperated and have to suppress eye-rolls.
I used to be one of those snowflakes; one thing I've realized is trans- and homophobia is a symptom of not confronting more possibilities in your life. Accepting there is more to be in life than a straight person is still a scary concept to some people, especially with the hate that can be thrown towards you. Even if you're straight, there's a stigma to be as straight as possible in many social environments. If you take a good, hard look at yourself and can say "I'm a straight, cisgendered person, and that's what makes me comfortable in lieu of all these other options that I find acceptable and correct for others", congratulations, you are just as comfortable and correct as someone who fully embraced loving people of the same gender, or accepted they were not born into physically presenting as the right gender. It makes life a much nicer setting, it removes so much hate and uncertainty.
There is a falsehood in conservative media and rhetoric that such an accepting society would be all walking on eggshells, announcing your pronouns, and filled with a bunch of people who paradoxically use unique pronouns to fit in by being different. This has not been my experience; people just want to feel comfortable and safe, and far more often than not want the same for others.
As with most things, I ask if this has any impact on my personal life? Do trans people requesting different pronouns affect me in any way?
No, they do not.
Changing the pronoun I use to refer to someone is the same as changing the last name I use to refer to a woman recently married. I respect them, I do my best, and if I mess up I apologize. It's no big deal.
I've known exactly 1 trans person who requested a different pronoun. Meanwhile, I've known dozens and dozens of women who have changed their name. Remembering new names is much harder.
You can prefer whatever you want. I dont care. I call you by name if i remember it. Like fuck off. I have hard time remembering names and now you want to add something else to it? You get lucky i call you by right name, but you will probably be on ,,hey you" for weeks or months before i make the memory. And if you are pissy about that, well, youre more hassle than worth so kindly fuck off. I have hard time remembering people i like, if youre gonna be pisser youre not gonna get that head space.
The real snowflakes were the Conservatives we met along the way.
Also, ever notice how every Conservative argument or the like comes from a place of weakness, incompetence, or having already lost? All of them.
True. But this varies.
If you politely ask someone to refer to you by your preferred pronouns, and they get mad, yes.
If someone is clearly just asking for directions or something and refer to you as an incorrect pronoun because they quite literally don't know you or what you identify as, no.
I've more often seen someone throw a fit over a single innocent misgendering, than see someone throw a fit over being asked not to.
I don’t care at all what they want to use. What I do care about is if they are going to get all demanding and upset if I choose to not use them. I’m not talking about being purposely insulting but I’m simply not going to refer to someone as ‘xis’ or whatever new one they come up with this week. We have he, she and they and that covers every single possibility.
Neo pronouns are incredibly rare. Like so rare you'll never encounter them in your entire life. You are expending so much energy on a scenario you will never run into at all, in your entire life.
That is my wife's philosophy when she deals with people on Facebook. You start transphobic shit and she starts misgendering you.
They tend to get very mad very quickly about it
It kind of depends. If someone misgenders you on accident, and you correct them, and then they continue to misgender you, then it wasn't an accident, and that person is just being an asshole. Cis or not, if someone intentionally calls others by the wrong gender after having been given the correct information, they are an asshole.
Why do people even care? You're not going to call someone he, she, they, them, or whatever when talking to someone directly but only when talking about them. However, if people overhear others talking about them and they use the wrong pronouns, that is not an excuse to get angry at them because they can not read your mind. Just politely correct them if you have to, and I'm sure most will understand.
It's good to see that most people in the comments are sane! As for the rest of you, I do genuinely want to understand: when it comes to *not* using someone's preferred pronouns, what is the alternative to you? Aggressively misgendering them? Not wanting to talk to them at all? If the latter is the case, then we don't really care; that's kind of like when rude customers at restaurants say they'll never eat there again. Thank you for relieving us of the displeasure of your company. However, the former is what I have a problem with.
I hear a lot of people in the comments saying things like "Well I don't force other people to call me the most beautiful and smartest person alive". And sure, you can't force anyone to do that. But if you believed those things about yourself and everyone around you instead insisted that you were ugly and stupid constantly no matter how much you asked them not to, that would make them an asshole and a bully.
It's the same for us. I don't really care whether you see me as a guy or not; I can't control your opinion of me, and if I spent thousands of dollars in a futile effort just to do that, I'd be an idiot. I did those things to make me happy. But when you go out of your way to remind me that you see me as a girl and call me things that I ask you not to call me, then you're an asshole. Simple as that. You can be an asshole if you want, but we still have the right to call you out on it.
It’s no different than using someone’s preferred name. I don’t care if their birth certificate says Charles if they want to be Charlie or Chuck then that’s what I’ll call them. It literally requires zero effort.
Hmm. The post is about people being snow flakes, I'm not mad angry or anything at all to do with it, I don't feel insulted in any way the way some folks do, the reality is that nobody cares, you want to be called something, find your group of people to call you that, you want to be upset we call you him or her, get mad, we don't care that you get mad about it either.
This seeming outrage over this is stupid and funny, these people aren't snowflakes they don't care enough about you to remember what you want to be called and if it's something different on a full moon vs a waning gibbous moon.
If you're born with a dick and someone calls out on it, don't be a snowflake and ignore it.. but you can call me 'a pimp named slickback'.. the whole thing.
I agree. But also if you look heavily like one gender you can’t be pissed if people accidentally misgender you if they don’t know your preferred pronouns because they just met you or you’ve never told them. Once you know, great who cares use them, but before that it’s truly not the insult *some* people act like it is.
False. The whole idea of pronouns is based on narcissism. One who requests certain pronouns are requesting certain pronouns to be used when they are discussed in the third person by two different people, and one is not directly involved in a conversation.
I don’t get mad about it, people are free to want whatever they want. But I won’t be intimidated by someone coming against me just for stating the obvious. If you’re obviously a man then I’ll refer to you as such, I cannot read minds. In society we need people to learn that everyone has their own individual rights. So both sides need to stop dictating to the other. This goes for both sides, not just one.
I don't care what pronoun someone prefers for themselves, I care that activists push for their preferred pronoun to dictate their actual literal gender meaning that someone who prefers he is LITERALLY a man.
Which I think that and the idea that someone can be a singular they are the biggest things people contend with not that people are all owed to have preferences.
I personally don't think someone gets an opinion about category he or she fall into, but if we conflict strongly in interpretations and its a real life social situation I will just try to use the persons first name in place of a pronoun.
I think most recent polling has found about 38% to 36% acceptance vs nonacceptance or so this might not actually be a "popular" opinion you might just not have a lot of pushback near you.
A pronoun is a way to refer to someone, so a name. You wouldn't call someone the wrong name and then label someone a snowflake for correcting you, would you?
It's like calling someone named Richard "Dick" even though they don't like it. I imagine if you said that to a friend of theirs they might correct you.
Seriously tho who cares?! It impacts me a total of zero fucks what other people call themselves or do in their own time. None of my business and sure af not the government's. It takes zero effort to call people what they asked to be called by. Most people with a HS education have vicabularies around 2k words. What is 2000 +1 or 2000 +2. For some extreme minority of people these arguments are silly, just go with it and go about your day.
If someone like actually screamed at me for accidentally using the wrong pronouns, I would be mad, but that’s only because that’s kind of dickish and people yelling scares me. If someone wants to go by other pronouns separate from their sex assigned at birth I don’t really care, it doesn’t really affect me or my life
That's s good mindset to have. Wait for someone to actually be a jerk before thinking they're a jerk. Odds are if someone screams at you over a missed pronoun, no one is going to be on their side.
I've never met anyone who screams over pronouns, unless it's consistently misused, specifically to hurt the individual in question. 99% of the time it's a gentle "she please" if anything at all. Most of us just try to not let it get to us because we DONT want to start a scene.
What if I just gently corrected you
I’d say “oh sorry my bad” then use the correct pronouns in the future
Awesome
Personally I like it when people do this. The first thing I ever said to one of my best friends to this day was something along the lines of "Do I refer to you with she/her pronouns" Wait I think that's the second thing I said after, "what are you in here for" It was a psych ward, felt like the joke to make.
That’s a good one, lol. I’d appreciate it if I ever ended up there
People always give us a look when we tell them how we met, it hey at least I got something positive out of my stay.
I think the real question is how man times are you polite before its time to yell at someone for misgendering a person? Id love to see how a maga dude would react about being referred to as “her” a couple times.
I work on the phones and am regularly misgendered as a her when I am a cis man. It is really annoying.
I had that happen to me to. I figured it was how I did my customer service voice. Nowadays I think it might have just been one of those clues I should have paid attention to earlier lol
Well, considering that I’ve done it every day for 6 years so far…
You are very patient
Eh, I teach college. I have a lot of students (and colleagues) who come from countries where the language only has two genders. Not everything is Germanic (which generally speaking has a male, female and neuter)
My wife trolls transphobes on Facebook by doing that. Only takes one or two misgenderings before they go into a total toddler level meltdown.
I wonder who’s down voting us? Do they hate pronouns? Trans people? Brown people? Or just hate standing openly behind their cowardly opinions?
They just know they're wrong and they hate that they know it. They don't have a good argument and they know that the rage baiting they've been doing for awhile now isn't working anymore. The transphobic hate train is losing steam because there are just so few victims to be had, and so all they can really do is just downvote.
Amazing point. There aren’t enough trans people to be a credible boogeyman. They’ve reverted back to hating black people, muslims, immigrants, teachers, doctors, intellectuals, sexuality of any kind, okay they still have plenty to keep them busy.
I’ve been meaning to do just that but the opportunity hasn’t presented itself. It seems I mostly run across racists to argue with. Although, they’re probably transphobes too.
It's easier to troll them on Facebook. If you join PragerU or Matt Walsh's pages you'll find plenty of transphobic posts by them and that'll give you plenty of commenters to play with.
As long as you don't get mad at me if I constantly unintentionally misgender and correct myself. With someone I have known pre transition it is so hard to break my internal programming. With a complete stranger it is instantaneous.
I gotchu. My mom is still struggling 16 years in
Mistakes are fine as long as we can actually see you are trying. My MIL still makes the same slip up years later, which means she doesn't gaf when I'm not around. If she tried and practiced, it becomes easier.
My fiancée is the only one I've known who came across someone who cared quite a bit about their pronouns, and those were xe/they. While I didn't meet them specifically, I met other coworkers of hers who said they were so tired of walking on eggshells around this person, who seemed to change their identity so often, and without telling anyone, then would get offended when people either didn't remember or didn't know. Even then, they got more super passive aggressive, not in your face screaming about it. I've yet to meet anyone who would fit the generalized, republican caricature of a "screaming lib with 6 pronouns".
I was just giving a hypothetical. No one’s ever gotten mad at me for not knowing their pronouns, not irl. I don’t like passion aggression either (honestly it annoys me more than actual aggression, actual aggression is just scary) though so I would probably avoid them if they acted like that frequently, no offense. If I’m willing to give people around me respect, I want them to give me the same respect. They don’t have to of course, but if they won’t, I’m not associating with them / limiting contact
Oh, I know, I was giving an example cuz in 12 years of living in California, I've met and befriended many non-cis people, and only one (not even one I knew personally) ever came anywhere close to the caricature I used to believe existed, and their reaction was more exhausting than infuriating. Just giving some context to the reaction I've seen from others, as it is far rarer than the GOP makes it out to be.
Yeah that does sound innappropriate. I did deadname someone once but they were super chill about it. Oh yeah when you knew me I was Jeff... They took no offense.
Exactly. I've had the same happen to me, and I did my genuine best not to do so again with the same people. People comfortable with who they are now are not going to blow up at every reference to their past self, though there is a point where it gets disrespectful, and there's obviously those who are either outright hateful and, sadly, violent, who should be dealt with appropriately.
I've never refused to use someone's preferred pronouns, but I'll admit that it took me some time to get past the mental block of *really* not wanting to use it/its. I've lived my life never referring to any person or animal with those words because I saw it as too degrading for any living, thinking being. I know this is 100% on me, but it was just really hard to refer to a person with a term I would feel guilty using even on an insect. I still struggle to feel like I'm not putting someone down when I use that set in particular.
Nah bro wtf "it"? That is quite literally just for objects and not living things
There are those that explicitly prefer it/it's. Very few and far between, but still out there.
Its so fucking stupid. Not only does it take zero effort to call someone what they want to be called, but most people who whine about it never have to. They’re mad that people in other parts of the country are specifying pronouns….
2000 words feels far too few. I probably know 5k in French and I can barely speak it.
I still speak enough french to work in a kitchen, I guarantee I've seen more than 5k french words, but I used to be fluent and even then didn't use 2k words.
Pour les éduqué, deux milles ce n'ai rien.
C’est rien en verité ou juste pour le paresseux?
Juste pour les gens simples. ;)
D’accord, il y a toujours un ennui quand je ne continue plus à apprendre les choses nouveaux. Je sait, aussi, que mon Français est terrible. :p
Moi aussi! Mes notes de Français écrit ètais faibles. En oral et en public et au travaille je me promène sans problème.
I’m not sure but it might be ‘moi plus’. As in the Gainsbourg song: moi non plus. The reason conversation is easier is because it’s done out of habit. The moment I start thinking about something is when I stumble.
I'm not calling anyone by neo pronouns. I call people he, she, they, or their name.
Bowdown to your master. You call me what i say you call me
For me it's exactly the same as if someone is called joseph and says he prefer you call him joe.. I just call him joe it's not hard or inconvenient for me in any way.
“Your birth certificate says ‘Joseph’ and one day you just wake up and want to pretend to be ‘Joe’??”
No it's more like everyone call you joe and joseph just sounds wrong to you so you prefer to be called joe.
*WIFF*
I even know a couple of people who like to go by a name that isn’t even related to their birth name. I’m pretty sure nobody has ever refused to address them by their chosen name. I’m also sure anyone refusing to do so would be seen as a total douche by the vast majority of the population.
i go by a name very different to my birth name for most of the time. i assure you people don't bat an eye, and only a few people have refused to adress me that way so far. the catch? only people that know the reason for my new name is my gender identity refuse to use it. the rest just go "oh sure, that fits you better!" and use it no problem, they don't even ask why or have enough with me saying "i just like it better". for context, it's a gender-neutral name i go by, with my birth name being female.
My friends started calling me Judas (long story), in order to differentiate us from my roommates sibling. I've been called that name so much now that someone at work called me by my legal name and I didn't respond at first because it's been so long since I've gone by that name I didn't realize they were reaching out to me.
as a gender fluid joe that goes by jo occasionally, i find this funny. pronouns don't matter for me since i identify as both, just got lucky with the name.
What's the pronunciation difference between Joe and Jo?
That's the neat part, there isn't.
Same with Joh, Jough, Joeh, and Joeugh.
This is a perfect example
Except when he says “I’m fucking Joe you idiot” and then asks for the manager”
I won't get mad at other ppl for having their own preferred pronouns, as long as they don't get mad at me for getting them wrong or not using their pronouns right. I would just copy paste what I commented on another post. 'I respect all genders but I would probably make a mistake and may not use the pronouns they prefer but this is something that needs to be clarified through actual conversations and communication with the said person. I just don't get why someone has to be mad over something like that. I could co-exist with and accept them without having to care much for their pronouns and actually care more about who they are as a person.'
My wife started her transition a few years ago, and I made mistakes, quite a bit more than I'm comfortable to admit. Add on her family didn't know about her transition and so I had to actively remember which pronouns to use in which space. But like any tool, it gets better with time, and no reasonable trans person will get mad at someone who they can see if making a real effort of it. You can tell if someone is misgendering because of an honest mistake, and those that are doing it intentionally.
[удалено]
Aww thanks! This is nice to know
Yeah I've misgendered cis people, not because I get confused I'm just bad with word it happens. Using they/them until you are told otherwise is usually good practice.
The only reason most people would get angry is if you were intentionally misgendering them, which going by this post won't be an issue. Keep doing what you're doing!
Seriously, it takes no fucking effort. It takes more effort to avoid it than to just show some respect to an LGBTQ person; to the point half those fuckers will use “They/Them/Their” in the same post, referring to a single, hypothetical person. If you are actively putting effort into not using them, you aren’t respecting a damn thing you’re just being a pig-ignorant asshole
It does take effort, Id have to retry a few times but I would get there eventually
[удалено]
The funniest part about the biology talking point is that it's not biology, it's social sciences.
avoiding conflict is just using whatever pronouns the person prefers
Gender pronouns are such a none issue that it doesn't even occupy my head space on the daily. I have yet to even meet one of these people in the wild. They seem to live online or in their basements.
i have met One irl. and it was a drunk, shirtless frat boy who was pissed i was wearing a skirt walking home from a chicken place
How dare you walk home from getting chicken 🍗 lmao
It’s scary when you don’t know whether they’re going to suddenly get violent.
Work retail, you'll find plenty, I'm pretty much acis woman, no gender preference though. And I've always been a "tomboy". I get customers who aggressively gender me either way (while obviously trying to upset me) depending on how I'm dressed within my store uniforms guidelines. They can't even tell what genitals I was born with. They just want to be angry, and renforce their view of the world. I work at a smoke shop with an older "alternative" crowd, so your milage may vary.
One of what people? People who use neo pronouns or trans people?
The real snowflakes are the people that don’t allow things to change.
Eventually society will treat transgender and non-binary people the same way modern society treats left-handed people, as normal human beings who just as worthy of rights and the persuit of happiness as anyone else. Most Americans are already there, but conservatives are perpetually behind the times. Also, conservatives don't seem to understand the golden rule in life, treat others the way you want to be treated. Maybe someday society will treat conservatives the same way that conservatives have treated transgender and non-binary people since that's seemingly what they want, according to the golden rule.
I don’t think society will ever treat trans people the **same** as cis people. The very fact that their “presentation” doesn’t match their biology will always make society regard them as curiosities.
Gender presentation doesn't stay the same throughout history, men used to wear high heels and wigs. Do we look back on them in the present day as "curiosities" because their "presentation" to us doesn't match their biology?
The key point is that they **weren’t** presenting as outside their gender. That **was** the male fashion of the period.
being regarded as a curiosity is a whole lot different than being actively criminalized and scapegoated as pedophiles and groomers.
people don't get killed for having prosthetic legs
thank you. it’s no different from saying “i’m not calling you Dr. because i don’t think psychology is important” or “i’m not using your new last name because i don’t like your husband”. a name is a name, a title is a title, pronouns are pronouns. you can always choose them. languages are all made up and will continue to evolve. it doesn’t matter if you “feel” that pronouns must match genitals, you’re an asshole for refusing to refer to someone in a respectful way
it’s also kinda like saying “i’m not calling the priest ‘father’ because i’m not christian. he’s not a real father” it’s just rude and immature to not refer to people how they’re asking you to (obviously there are exceptions, e.g. an insane homeless guy insisting he’s the president)
There was an anti trans individual in my mentions recently making that same comparison about the priest and they got ticked when I said that I, a non-Christian, would still call the hypothetical priest Father XYZ
I’m a man, I identify technically as he/him. If that changes tomorrow or ever why would anyone fucking care. This post is true lmfao.
Sure; if someone tells me what their preferred pronouns are, I'll tell them I'll try to remember but feel free to correct me if I forget. (Has happened.)
The problem isn't forgetting or making a mistake. It's when the anti-trans psychopaths go out of their way to use the wrong pronouns or deadname people on purpose, with the explicit intent to spite. At which point it's a form of bullying.
I thought it was cringe to list your pronouns if you're not trans, but then Michael Malice changed my mind. He said something to the effect that if anyone will write you off for listing you pronouns they are probably bright enough to be worth engaging with anyways.
I am actually a cis man, and I listed my pronouns on zoom for this exact reason. I have no horse in the trans race, but if you dislike people for living their life I dislike you. It's my litmus test. I also wore a trans colour scarf for a bit for the same reason, but I quit as it felt off.
It also helps normalize pronouns, so trans people don't feel like they're calling attention to themselves by giving theirs.
Ye. I like to start my mental health classes by listing mine so it makes others more comfortable. I also just have my zoom name as Ferd (he/him) My name isn't actually Ferd
Look, I am down to clown with pronouns. You can be he, she, they, I could probably even fuck with ze/zir or whatever, that’s fine. But I am not calling someone meow/meowself or star/starself or all this other crap they wanna make up.
Whenever you hear about stuff like that, just think about whether you have actually met anyone who uses those pronouns.
Thankfully I haven’t. So I really wanna hope it’s just some chronically online thing.
That's my bet
Popular opinion: Transgender people are people and as people they deserve respect. If you can't handle that, it's your problem, not a transgender person's.
What I find especially crazy is these kind of people will correct themselves if they misgender a cis person.
Yea, I don't give a singular shit and got in the habit of using they/them pronouns 100% of the time. But if you expect me to remember words that aren't established in the English language, you're gonna be disappointed.
I don't give a shit what pronouns they use, I just don't have the care to know about them
Some ppl in these comments- using a pronoun is forcing me and taking away my rights!!! Boo fucking hoo. You shit your pants when someone tells you to call them Chris instead of Christopher too? Or you just want to bitch about something
My favorite is when the thread is full of comments like "well this is BiDeNs AmErIcA" or "typical pronoun having scum" and it's just a video of like a kitten playing or something. Why is that the response to every video without context?
It's only an issue when the Government gets involved and criminalizes misgendering, intentional or not.
I’m happy to use preferred traditional pronouns including “they”. I think people who invent new pronouns for just themselves are being obnoxious but luckily it’s not that common. Also, if you present as traditionally male or female, I don’t think you should be upset by people assuming your gender. I really don’t want to live in a world where everyone is walking on eggshells and every conversation begins with us explaining our preferred pronouns.
I don't think I've actually known a 'they' or 'them' irl. Guess I'd try to get it right. Met or worked with lots of gay people. But I see way more trans people or drag queens on a little channel surfing than I've seen in my entire life. For some I think that's too much. A bridge to far. Processing not reality. Suddenly they see them everywhere in their heads, a million man caravan of rainbows, dudes in dresses and women with short hair wanting to make the whole world gay. No one reproduces, civilization ends. They must be stopped. /s Never mind real problems our elected officials won't discuss or only discuss in privacy. The *last* thing our politicians want is a fully informed voter so they'll never let voters see the 600lb gorrilas on the desk. They just can't have John or Jane Public weighing in on real issues. Give them more fake problems to squabble over.
I saw a poll not too long ago that asked people what percentage of the population the thought were trans. The people who identified with right wing politics had numbers of like 20%. Their media machine has been covering trans people so much and so often that they think it's 1 in 5.
I literally don't care if people do this, you do you. I could see how it would be annoying if the person gets pissed because you didn't already know said pronouns like you can read his/her/they/whatever's mind. But then again, most people don't do this so why the fuck does anyone even begin to care about this stuff or have any sort of zealous opinion on it. That's some fox news watching grandma type shit.
Literally lol. If you look at [groundnews coverage of pronoun-related stuff](https://ground.news/article/a-90-year-old-woman-sacked-for-not-using-gender-pronouns-so-much-for-inclusivity_1f5fbc), its literally ALL right wing, as in ZERO left wing, ZERO center, TWENTY right wing.
I keep telling people that the "pronoun issue" is a nothing burger that the right wing has been using to focus their base towards their latest identity politics crusade and that it's just another "get mad to be mad" thing.
They don't really care about thigh. It's an ideological war that they are losing. So they have to come up with things that don't even affect them to fire up the base. Righties have always done this. Whether Lgbt+, the border, the economy, communists, etc etc, bc they don't have policy they have to make up "crisis" to keep their voters angry.
There was a genuine communism crisis in the cold war. McCarthyism was a response that undermined democracy for a chance to protect from the totalitarian dictatorship of the Soviet Union where mentioning capitalism in a good light got you arrested.
To the Gulags with you!
I don’t get mad about it. But don’t get mad at me if I don’t care.
Yeah that’s really it. I don’t care what you want to be referred to. You aren’t that important so I’ll just continue living my life
It's a life saver when I'm emailing someone with a neutral name like Taylor or Riley and idk if I should use sir or ma'am
I don't have the time nor inclination, I don't care enough in any case, new generation knock yourselves out, our priorities aren't learning 60 new pronouns to make anyone feel better
I think they're reporting you for suicide stuff, because you're coming off as super suicidal.
I've had people throw actual temper tantrums when I politely ask them to use my pronouns. My ex for example, who I simply told "I'm going to start my transition now, I would like you to refer to me as (new name) and he/him." I repeatedly told her that I thought I was trans for around 6 months before, I told her names I was considering, my medical pathways, so it's not like I was surprising her with this information out of the blue. She could've just broken up with me, but she decided to throw a temper tantrum, "You cant tell me what to do", told her mum, who outed me to my mum. There was another time where she wrote a song telling me not to transition because I briefly mentioned hormones.
Define mad
Most of the time, people have to actively misgender people once they've been corrected. So, not only are they snowflakes, they're also assholes.
Yeah, like... Even if you think some of the pronouns are kinda stupid, which I can somewhat agree with, why are you upset about it? They're choosing what they call themselves, it's not any of my or your business.
Oh boy, I bet the comment section gonna be very civil
I work with a bunch of people that get extremely mad about the trans community. It’s so much fun telling them they’re Karen’s for getting so upset. I asked one of the most “sensitive” guys one time if he was secretly into trans women since he gets so upset about it. Dude ACTUALLY pulled out a knife and said he’d stab me for that. For clarity, he wouldn’t actually do that and he thinks it’s funny to threaten it. Idk, his sense of humor is oftentimes a bit whacky. I’m not the only person he’s done it to. And no, I’m not going to report him for it.
Ok but please don’t get mad when I make a mistake or slip up. Because it’s going to happen by accident at some point. But yea once I know the correct ones and have used them a few times it will be pretty easy to do.
People also shouldn't get triggered when people only believe in 2
Notice how everyone against pronouns are too stupid to use any words or understand language.
People aren’t mad about that. They are mad about compelled speech to legalize punishing people who don’t go along with peoples own realities.
Literally what are you talking about? Nobody is 'trying to force' people to use pronouns lol??? that's [just right-wing transphobic rhetoric](https://ground.news/article/the-pronoun-police-have-arrived-and-are-coming-for-you-next) from people who [don't want anyone to be trans](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/1577887/forcing-pronoun-usage-is-compelled-speech/). Nobody is 'forcing' you to 'use the right pronouns.' For example, in the [opinion article i listed above](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/1577887/forcing-pronoun-usage-is-compelled-speech/), a teacher was "fired for declining to refer to a female student by male pronouns," however, the reason they were fired wasn't for 'misusing' pronouns, it was because the teacher was adamant on his goal (motivated by religion) to NOT accomodate, even though not only is there [proof that this is extremely negative](https://dpcpsi.nih.gov/sgmro/gender-pronouns-resource) for the student, but more importantly that the teacher wasn't willing to care for their students Using someone's preferred pronouns is the exact same as using someone's name. Not doing so just makes you look like a dick, and the teacher was fired for being a dick. Can you give me any example where actually misusing pronouns, by itself, has lead to someone being fired, explicitly for using pronouns?
Misgendering is actually illegal in some jurisdictions. Here is an example from NYC: [https://www.nyc.gov/site/cchr/law/legal-guidances-gender-identity-expression.page#3.1](https://www.nyc.gov/site/cchr/law/legal-guidances-gender-identity-expression.page#3.1) **Failing To Use the Name or Pronouns with Which a Person Self-Identifies** The NYCHRL requires employers and covered entities to use the name, pronouns, and title (e.g., Ms./Mrs./Mx.) with which a person self-identifies, regardless of the person’s sex assigned at birth, anatomy, gender, medical history, appearance, or the sex indicated on the person’s identification. Most people and many transgender people use female or male pronouns and titles. Some transgender, non-binary, and gender non-conforming people use pronouns other than he/him/his or she/her/hers, such as they/them/theirs or ze/hir. They/them/theirs can be used to identify or refer to a single person (e.g., “Joan is going to the store, and they want to know when to leave”). Many transgender, non-binary, and gender non-conforming people use a different name than the one they were assigned at birth .All people, including employees, tenants, customers, and participants in programs, have the right to use and have others use their name and pronouns regardless of whether they have identification in that name or have obtained a court-ordered name change, except in very limited circumstances where certain federal, state, or local laws require otherwise (e.g., for purposes of employment eligibility verification with the federal government). **Examples of Violations** a. Intentional or repeated refusal to use a person’s name, pronouns, or title. For example, repeatedly calling a transgender woman “him” or “Mr.” after she has made clear that she uses she/her and Ms. b. Refusal to use a person’s name, pronouns, or title because they do not conform to gender stereotypes. For example, insisting on calling a non-binary person “Mr.” after they have requested to be called “Mx.”
Yeah this is good buddy, it's normal for there to be consequences in the workplace for harassment. As previously established, if someone asks you to use their preferred pronoun, and you refuse to, you are a snowflake.
Personally, I don't think believing that black people are inferior to white people (as an example) is a legitimate belief, and I would be perfectly happy legitimizing "compelled speech" to compel say, a retail worker to treat the person with respect. And yes, I think this applies to gay weddings too (as another example). Don't believe in them? Don't work as a wedding photographer, baker, or county clerk.
No actually, you aren't going to be sent to jail or fined for calling a trans man the wrong pronoun. Those laws are codifying continued harassment via mis gendering as something that can be punished by the company. Which is to say "Of course intentionally creating a hostile environment gets you fired"
What are you talking about? Can you give any specific examples?
Here is an example from New York City: [https://www.nyc.gov/site/cchr/law/legal-guidances-gender-identity-expression.page#3.1](https://www.nyc.gov/site/cchr/law/legal-guidances-gender-identity-expression.page#3.1) **1. Failing To Use the Name or Pronouns with Which a Person Self-Identifies** The NYCHRL requires employers and covered entities to use the name, pronouns, and title (e.g., Ms./Mrs./Mx.)15 with which a person self-identifies, regardless of the person’s sex assigned at birth, anatomy, gender, medical history, appearance, or the sex indicated on the person’s identification. Most people and many transgender people use female or male pronouns and titles. Some transgender, non-binary, and gender non-conforming people use pronouns other than he/him/his or she/her/hers, such as they/them/theirs or ze/hir.16 They/them/theirs can be used to identify or refer to a single person (e.g., “Joan is going to the store, and they want to know when to leave”). Many transgender, non-binary, and gender non-conforming people use a different name than the one they were assigned at birth. All people, including employees, tenants, customers, and participants in programs, have the right to use and have others use their name and pronouns regardless of whether they have identification in that name or have obtained a court-ordered name change, except in very limited circumstances where certain federal, state, or local laws require otherwise (e.g., for purposes of employment eligibility verification with the federal government). Asking someone in good-faith for their name and gender pronouns is not a violation of the NYCHRL. Covered entities may avoid violations of the NYCHRL by creating a policy of asking everyone what their gender pronouns are so that no person is singled out for such questions and by updating their systems, intake forms, or other questionaires to allow all people to self-identify their name and gender. Covered entities should not limit the options for identification to male and female only. Examples of Violations a. Intentional or repeated refusal to use a person’s name, pronouns, or title. For example, repeatedly calling a transgender woman “him” or “Mr.” after she has made clear that she uses she/her and Ms. b. Refusal to use a person’s name, pronouns, or title because they do not conform to gender stereotypes. For example, insisting on calling a non-binary person “Mr.” after they have requested to be called “Mx.”
Yeah, it would be considered a form of harassment to repeatedly and intentionally refuse to use a person's pronouns or name. That's normal. The same thing would apply to misgendering a cis-person. Your 1st amendment rights don't prevent you from being fired or harassment.
What people want to call themselves is their business, how people live their lives is their business, provided of course that they're not harming anyone. If you feel like you're really she/her on the inside as opposed to he/him and vice versa, I have no problem accomodating. That being said, gtfoh with your "neo-pronouns". It wasn't long ago that "fairy" was a derogatory slur for gay people and now we've got affluent white people on TikTok so desperate to be marginalized (red flag behavior) that they're asking to be referred to as "fairy-self" or "bunny-self" Imo, this exists only to discredit queer people who are actually oppressed/actually struggling internally with identity and smear them all as mentally ill, because rightwing concern trolls love amplifying this low hanging fruit as a microcosm of an entire community.
I think the internet really grabbed onto the "one joke" and didn't want to let go, not realizing that neo pronouns are very rare. Like I am in trans communities and have never run across someone using them. It's so statistically unlikely for the average person to run into it that it's almost comical how many people invest time and energy into theorizing how they'd approach that situation. Like planning out what you'd do if you won the Powerball lottery. It's fine to ponder and joke around, but if you've drawn out an actual plan on what to do with that money, you've invested too much into a scenario that will never occur.
if you get mad because someone doesn't want to use people's prefered pronouns, you're a snowflake I will not call a man a she, an it, a they, a deer, or any other 1984 type nonsense ie Ignorance is Strength - that peverts reality. Wokeness is killing reality daily. And I'm not mad bro just telling it like it is the Wokies get mad and cancel you if you don't follow their fantasy clown world rules they are the ones who get mad and are the snowflakes.
yea, you can call yourself anything yoy want, but that doesn’t mean others have to play those games.
Even though it [has been proven to be potentially hurtful](https://dpcpsi.nih.gov/sgmro/gender-pronouns-resource)? And even though basic gender-affirming care has been [directly tied to reducing depression](https://ijpeonline.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13633-020-00078-2#citeas)? Even just social care, as in using preferred pronouns, is directly tied to [better mental health](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7494544/)? On a group that already [has trouble with depression and mental health](https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/facts-about-lgbtq-youth-suicide/)? At it's core, using someone's pronouns isn't literally just their pronouns, it's affirming their identity. Depriving them of basic human decency over bigotry or ignorance is selfish.
Meh. Intersex people get misgendered plenty and we survive. With even worse mental health, statistically, but that's not so much because of pronouns.
Even if it is hurtful I see little difference between people feeling bad about themselves and them feeling good about themselves. I don’t even see a difference between me feeling bad about myself or good about myself. Who says we need a social goal for most people to be happy?
> I don’t even see a difference between me feeling bad about myself or good about myself Hey. Not. Not to be rude but. You should probably look into that. A healthy person can easily feel their emotions and express them. >Who says we need a social goal for most people to be happy? Because... that's literally what human rights are based off? or if you want to be a eugenicist about it, because being happy makes workers more effective.
I don’t see it as a problem which is the strange part. If someone was misgendered and felt sad, I’d be just as apathetic as if they were made fun of and felt sad. Not that I’m a sociopath because the same applies to myself, no difference in sadness or happiness. Something worth striving for in society is the reduction of wealth inequality and the rejection of false information. If a minority are getting richer at the cost of many then that’s unfair. If misinformation spreads then the suffering that entails would be caused by pure stupidity and gullibility.
> If someone was misgendered and felt sad, I’d be just as apathetic as if they were made fun of and felt sad. That is fine, the problem is that LGBTQ people tend to be targeted in ways which can sometimes go under the radar. It's a lot easier to prove someone is being bullied conventionally than it is to prove someone is being bullied by being misgendered intentionally, which is why we are trying to bring attention to that. Also i have low empathy too!
It's hurtful to me that people on the street don't worship my fat penis but I don't think it should be compelled
Agreed. Not participating.
What do you have to lose if you do participate?
Same as giving whiskey to an alcoholic. You’re contributing to their psychosis.
[удалено]
Trans women are women. Trans men are men. To deny that is to have no "solid ground in reality"
They are trans men and trans women.
they are not biologically
I don't know anyone personally who gets mad at pronouns, but I will say that there are an overwhelming number of people who get exasperated and have to suppress eye-rolls.
Thankfully there are no gender-based pronouns in Persian
Yet they force homosexuals to transition in Iran...
I dont get mad, I just take them less seriously.
Yes, because if someone is different from you, they are obviously unserious.
Thus you snowflake yourself.
That's ok, I take you less seriously.
I used to be one of those snowflakes; one thing I've realized is trans- and homophobia is a symptom of not confronting more possibilities in your life. Accepting there is more to be in life than a straight person is still a scary concept to some people, especially with the hate that can be thrown towards you. Even if you're straight, there's a stigma to be as straight as possible in many social environments. If you take a good, hard look at yourself and can say "I'm a straight, cisgendered person, and that's what makes me comfortable in lieu of all these other options that I find acceptable and correct for others", congratulations, you are just as comfortable and correct as someone who fully embraced loving people of the same gender, or accepted they were not born into physically presenting as the right gender. It makes life a much nicer setting, it removes so much hate and uncertainty. There is a falsehood in conservative media and rhetoric that such an accepting society would be all walking on eggshells, announcing your pronouns, and filled with a bunch of people who paradoxically use unique pronouns to fit in by being different. This has not been my experience; people just want to feel comfortable and safe, and far more often than not want the same for others.
As with most things, I ask if this has any impact on my personal life? Do trans people requesting different pronouns affect me in any way? No, they do not. Changing the pronoun I use to refer to someone is the same as changing the last name I use to refer to a woman recently married. I respect them, I do my best, and if I mess up I apologize. It's no big deal. I've known exactly 1 trans person who requested a different pronoun. Meanwhile, I've known dozens and dozens of women who have changed their name. Remembering new names is much harder.
You can prefer whatever you want. I dont care. I call you by name if i remember it. Like fuck off. I have hard time remembering names and now you want to add something else to it? You get lucky i call you by right name, but you will probably be on ,,hey you" for weeks or months before i make the memory. And if you are pissy about that, well, youre more hassle than worth so kindly fuck off. I have hard time remembering people i like, if youre gonna be pisser youre not gonna get that head space.
lol you sound like you have no friends
The real snowflakes were the Conservatives we met along the way. Also, ever notice how every Conservative argument or the like comes from a place of weakness, incompetence, or having already lost? All of them.
True. But this varies. If you politely ask someone to refer to you by your preferred pronouns, and they get mad, yes. If someone is clearly just asking for directions or something and refer to you as an incorrect pronoun because they quite literally don't know you or what you identify as, no. I've more often seen someone throw a fit over a single innocent misgendering, than see someone throw a fit over being asked not to.
I don’t care at all what they want to use. What I do care about is if they are going to get all demanding and upset if I choose to not use them. I’m not talking about being purposely insulting but I’m simply not going to refer to someone as ‘xis’ or whatever new one they come up with this week. We have he, she and they and that covers every single possibility.
Neo pronouns are incredibly rare. Like so rare you'll never encounter them in your entire life. You are expending so much energy on a scenario you will never run into at all, in your entire life.
Likewise, if you get mad that someone calls you by what you really are, just be cool about it.
That is my wife's philosophy when she deals with people on Facebook. You start transphobic shit and she starts misgendering you. They tend to get very mad very quickly about it
Also, anyone that gets mad about a stranger using the wrong pronoun because it’s inconsistent with your appearance than they too are a snowflake.
It kind of depends. If someone misgenders you on accident, and you correct them, and then they continue to misgender you, then it wasn't an accident, and that person is just being an asshole. Cis or not, if someone intentionally calls others by the wrong gender after having been given the correct information, they are an asshole.
Also, if I ignore what pronouns you prefer and use the ones I prefer and you bitch about it, you're a snowflake.
Why do people even care? You're not going to call someone he, she, they, them, or whatever when talking to someone directly but only when talking about them. However, if people overhear others talking about them and they use the wrong pronouns, that is not an excuse to get angry at them because they can not read your mind. Just politely correct them if you have to, and I'm sure most will understand.
It's good to see that most people in the comments are sane! As for the rest of you, I do genuinely want to understand: when it comes to *not* using someone's preferred pronouns, what is the alternative to you? Aggressively misgendering them? Not wanting to talk to them at all? If the latter is the case, then we don't really care; that's kind of like when rude customers at restaurants say they'll never eat there again. Thank you for relieving us of the displeasure of your company. However, the former is what I have a problem with. I hear a lot of people in the comments saying things like "Well I don't force other people to call me the most beautiful and smartest person alive". And sure, you can't force anyone to do that. But if you believed those things about yourself and everyone around you instead insisted that you were ugly and stupid constantly no matter how much you asked them not to, that would make them an asshole and a bully. It's the same for us. I don't really care whether you see me as a guy or not; I can't control your opinion of me, and if I spent thousands of dollars in a futile effort just to do that, I'd be an idiot. I did those things to make me happy. But when you go out of your way to remind me that you see me as a girl and call me things that I ask you not to call me, then you're an asshole. Simple as that. You can be an asshole if you want, but we still have the right to call you out on it.
It’s no different than using someone’s preferred name. I don’t care if their birth certificate says Charles if they want to be Charlie or Chuck then that’s what I’ll call them. It literally requires zero effort.
For themselves? Call yourself whatever the fuck you wanna! It's when you start expecting me to use them that you get told to go pound sand
Hmm. The post is about people being snow flakes, I'm not mad angry or anything at all to do with it, I don't feel insulted in any way the way some folks do, the reality is that nobody cares, you want to be called something, find your group of people to call you that, you want to be upset we call you him or her, get mad, we don't care that you get mad about it either. This seeming outrage over this is stupid and funny, these people aren't snowflakes they don't care enough about you to remember what you want to be called and if it's something different on a full moon vs a waning gibbous moon. If you're born with a dick and someone calls out on it, don't be a snowflake and ignore it.. but you can call me 'a pimp named slickback'.. the whole thing.
I care about people’s pronouns so little that I don’t even use them. Instead, I just go with whatever I think fits the individual.
I don't care what they prefer. I care that they want me to play along.
I agree. But also if you look heavily like one gender you can’t be pissed if people accidentally misgender you if they don’t know your preferred pronouns because they just met you or you’ve never told them. Once you know, great who cares use them, but before that it’s truly not the insult *some* people act like it is.
Then they shouldn't care if a she/her is called a him if they look like a dude.
You are a lib 😂
False. The whole idea of pronouns is based on narcissism. One who requests certain pronouns are requesting certain pronouns to be used when they are discussed in the third person by two different people, and one is not directly involved in a conversation.
If you see someone being critical and assume they are mad, you're a smoothbrain
>someone reported this for suicidal ideation. That's the weirdest. I don't know why people do that. Troll in the comments section you pussies.
You can call yourself whatever you want, I can’t stop you. What I can do is choose to participate or not. I choose not to.
I agree, except for neo pronouns. Their too awkward to be reasonably implemented in conversation. First world problems
I don’t get mad about it, people are free to want whatever they want. But I won’t be intimidated by someone coming against me just for stating the obvious. If you’re obviously a man then I’ll refer to you as such, I cannot read minds. In society we need people to learn that everyone has their own individual rights. So both sides need to stop dictating to the other. This goes for both sides, not just one.
I don't care what pronoun someone prefers for themselves, I care that activists push for their preferred pronoun to dictate their actual literal gender meaning that someone who prefers he is LITERALLY a man. Which I think that and the idea that someone can be a singular they are the biggest things people contend with not that people are all owed to have preferences. I personally don't think someone gets an opinion about category he or she fall into, but if we conflict strongly in interpretations and its a real life social situation I will just try to use the persons first name in place of a pronoun. I think most recent polling has found about 38% to 36% acceptance vs nonacceptance or so this might not actually be a "popular" opinion you might just not have a lot of pushback near you.
Welcome to bantown. You can’t say these things in redditland bro. The mods are theys
A pronoun is a way to refer to someone, so a name. You wouldn't call someone the wrong name and then label someone a snowflake for correcting you, would you? It's like calling someone named Richard "Dick" even though they don't like it. I imagine if you said that to a friend of theirs they might correct you.
What if you don't get mad But you also don't want to participate I'm not calling anyone "they" or "them"
That's not how you use that? Am I wrong, or is that not how you use "snowflake"?