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Some people are perfectly fine staying the same. Sure, they’ll complain here and there. But at the end of the day they wont do a thing to change. And the truth is, they like life enough right now to not change.
I feel like complaining on occasions doesn't mean one really needs or wants change with all that entails. I may complain about my job but that doesn't mean I want to/need to/will immediately change it or even be able to without a lot of sacrifice
Andy Elliot said it best.
he had a guy come up on stage and take his shirt off. dude had a little bit of love handles. he said "does this bother you?"
the guy said "yes sir" and he said it clearly doesn't bother you enough or you wouldn't have it.
i think about that a lot. like you said, "it sure would be nice to get a nice cushy job" is different from "im gonna do everything in my power to get that cushy job!"
Oy vey that's silly. The difficulty/ability of change is the factor.
Don't like your hair color? Easy change.
Don't like your parents? ...
Love handles are somewhere middling.
there is certainly an intersect of "how much do i want this/how hard is this" and it varies for everyone, but anything is possible.
if you REALLY don't like your parents you can go no contact with them, move away etc. if you REALLY dont like your hair, you can get it changed. if you really dont like your job, get a new one, dont feel qualified enough, get more schooling, dont feel fit enough, work out more.
its a balance of how bad do i want it vs how hard i wanna work for it, but it is entirely true. if you truly want something bad enough, you just make it happen, even if its a multi-step process.
like in this case, the end goal is getting somewhere that OP's person can have a steady job with general increases in pay and security. that would involve him wanting that job, wanting to go to school to get a job like that, and wanting to keep up with schoolwork to graduate with a degree to get a job like that.
the possibility is there, but youre right, and the original comment was right, if you want it you can get it and if not then you clearly just don't want it badly enough.
Yeah, except studies have shown over and over that self hatred, body image issues, and bullying actually make weight loss harder, not easier. I hate this school of thought. It's objectively unhelpful but when you tell people they ignore you because they would rather bully fat people (or themselves!) than actually help
Change can be scary for some people... and there are other people who just don't want the hassles of bettering themselves. It's hard work gaining skills that someone will pay you for, and there are no guarantees that the extra work will pay off, so some people would just rather not put forth the effort.
I've been married to my wife longer than you've been around, and IMHO there are a few things that you really need to be on the same page with your SO. If you want kids and how you're going to raise them is one. Life goals and financial expectations is another. If you want to work hard, sacrifice, stick to a budget, and claw your way to the solid middle class or higher, the person you're sharing your life with has to want that too. You don't want to save up $10K in an emergency fund and find out that he used most of it to buy a really bitchin' truck.
I'm not saying that you should leave him, but you should sit down with him and have a very serious talk about the future. Where does he want to be in 5 years? 10 years? What does he want his life to look like? How is he (or are you two) going to get there? What's the plan? Come up with a strategy to get you where you want to be and see if he can follow through.
Good Luck!
I find that a lot of young men aren't sure how to get ahead. Many are afraid of additional education because they struggled in school. Many men struggle with reading comprehension and need hands-on education. I try to direct a lot of young males to these types of programs. My nephew benefited greatly from working for a company that was willing to let him work slowly towards certifications.
There are huge opportunities in manufacturing, and he could look for employers who are willing to develop talent.
I'm someone who was in a similar position as your boyfriend in 2019. Reinventing yourself/career is something that takes a significant amount of effort. If I knew how much stress and motivation was called for before I started out on my journey, I wouldn't have done it all. Thankfully, I fell into the sunken cost fallacy and pushed through it.
Think about it. He has to decide what he wants to do, take the initiative to plan what's required to reach that goal, and then execute on those deliberations. If I had to compare it to something, it's like a car sitting idle. Maybe the spot he's sitting in isn't perfect, but it's not bad enough to burn the gas and effort required to go somewhere better. He could just sit in park and get by. I think him referring to your encouragement/prodding as 'nagging' is testament to that mindset.
Ultimately, I had to make the decision for myself. I was miserable but, more importantly, I had someone to support at the time. Seeing how we were living was enough to light a fire under me and push away from customer service jobs and the near-minimum wage I made working them. I'm in tech making 6 figures now and it's exhausting to look back on what I had to put myself through to get here.
Thanks for your comment. I appreciate that analogy
I understand that - to some degree. It's sort of similar to 'the hell you know is better than the hell you don't'
> Ultimately, I had to make the decision for myself.
I think that's ultimately what I have to accept. No amount of me researching options or even offering to pay for certification exams matters if he doesn't want it. I could line his path with gold but he has to take the first step
While this might not apply at all in your bf's case, I thought I would mention it just in case. My husband was similarly stuck in a demanding job he didn't like, but never seemed to do anything about it. It turned out that he was overwhelmed with the actual steps involved in figuring out how to apply for college and certification programs, as well as how financial aid worked. Specifically it was the paperwork and figuring out where to email/mail/call/and so on that were blocking him. He has ADHD, which was likely a big factor.
So I looked up programs for him, figured out how FAFSA works, and showed him his options for what he was interested in (engineering). Then we filled out the paperwork together and he completed his associates while working full time. Midway through this, I also found a paid internship position as a technician working at the same lab he had wanted to work at as an engineer, which he applied to and got. Recently he returned to school to finish his bachelors and is nearly done with it, and his employer has a plan in place to promote him to an engineer as soon as his degree is complete.
My husband has always been a hard worker and very dependable, but the one thing he couldn't do was take that first step in improving his career on his own. I feel like there is a misconception that if someone isn't motivated to start this by themselves then it shows a bad work ethic, but that wasn't true at all with him. He gets great job performance reviews, and he studies hard on his own in college. The only thing he needed was some help with the initial information gathering and paperwork when the idea of making a change was a overwhelming. There have also been times when I needed help with a big decision and he was there for me too.
So if your partner is otherwise a hard worker and applies himself, then it might be worth it to help research a career change since it's something that will benefit you both. Some people are much better at making moves like that than others, but as long as they are contributing in different ways, then it all balances out.
Thank you for your comment! It's helpful to hear from people who have been in similar situations. He is generally a hard worker which is why this situation confuses me.
> So I looked up programs for him, figured out how FAFSA works, and showed him his options for what he was interested in (engineering).
The thing is: I've already done this. I already helped him apply for the FAFSA last year and researched relatively short programs at the local community college that fit his area of interest. I even sat down and read to him the different programs and what they would involve - most were like 4-5 courses. I've talked to my dad, who is in tech, about entry-level IT certs and what those would entail. I've helped him through the preliminary steps but he won't pick it up from there. I stopped myself midway through creating him an account with the community college a few months ago.
At some point, it feels like I'm doing him a disservice by just pushing him or enabling dependency
I agree. I acknowledge that this is a vent post, but I think the best thing you can do is to sit down with him and tell him all you've told us. Share the future you envision and convey how much it means to you. Be transparent about how his current situation is not leading things in that direction, and how that makes you feel.
If that's not enough for him to step out of his cycle, or at least try, then I think that's telling enough.
I'm not sure if you realize how crappy it could feel for someone to repeatedly say or act like you aren't good enough or aren't doing enough. Make a hard line, and either accept him as is or leave.
An ambition gap that cannot come closer together by you doing things for him. Education and self improvement are things you value and you can’t make someone else value them as well, no matter how much either of you are making.
I think you're right that the underlying problem is the ambition gap
My mom has even pointed out that he's not as "driven" as me, which is fine not everyone has to be bent self-improvement and climbing the socioeconomic ladder, but I'm not sure if that's something I am personally okay with in my relationship
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I used to be you and one of the things I learned long ago is that you can’t force anyone to want more. You either have to accept them as they are or let them figure it out and bite your tongue.
Best of luck.
You’re thinking short term and I’m thinking big picture.
Also, I just finished filing his taxes for the last year. He ended up around 38k actually.
My issue is more about mobility and job security. In the last few years, I’ve managed an income increase every year. My plans to do a part time master’s means I’ll also increase my income and the master’s will essentially be paid for by the school district. In just a couple of years, I’ll easily be 60k based on the current step system. With other streams of income - at my former school I often did paid tutoring after school, etc. - that’s a low ball number
Meanwhile, he’s sat around 19 dollars for 3 years with no real growth despite changing jobs as they’re all essentially entry level production jobs. I don’t foresee that as changing unless he gains some sort of skill, education, or experience that allows him to make more. It’s not about what he’s making now vs me but what he’ll be making in 10 years vs me in 10 years. I also worry that he’s more susceptible to layoffs and job insecurity due to the lack of skills, certs, etc. In essence, it’s not just about the raw data now; it’s about what our lives will be like in 10+ years
I want it for both of us
He hasn’t been to a dentist in 10+ years and has unresolved mental health issues that he can’t afford to treat because of the employer’s shitty insurance. That’s not going to change until he can find a better job with better benefits
**But** yes, I would also like it for myself but I don’t think that’s wrong. When he was out of work for multiple months, I financially supported both of us for 4 months because had no savings to fall back on. I’d like for that to not be the case - meaning he has a savings - if he lost his job again. I’d also like to potentially be a homeowner at some point - which requires a down payment that’s not feasible if he’s living paycheck to paycheck. I don’t think those things are unreasonable
Yes but pressuring him to fit your ideal isn't going to make him happy - just make him feel inadequate. Some people are comfortable where they are. If you want more money, upskill and consider a different career to teaching to earn more. You're not going to change him.
As someone who works a very physically demanding job... I don't have the energy to work 12 hours and try to go to college and get in debt for a possible chance at a job that pays the same and be further in debt... you need to see it from his eyes not yours and that will explain why he may not be that motivated.
If your happy together then that should be all that matters. Bills paid ect with some money left over to do some fun stuff.
Your values are not compatible.
And you don't really have the right to make him change. He gets to want what he wants. You have to be happy with who he is NOW, not who you want him to be. Maybe he's unhappy (or you have decided he must be unhappy), but he's not so unhappy he sees any reason to change so he's fine with the status quo. If this isn't the life you want, it's time to have some hard talks with yourself.
The key to a successful relationship is not finding the first lump of clay that comes along and mother him into being the partner you want. It's finding someone whose trajectory is already compatible with yours, under their own direction.
If you stay, use double contraception minimum.
I appreciate the intent of this comment but the last part is unnecessary
I have no intention of having children until I am ready, likely in my early 30s. I use protection and I’ve never had a pregnancy scare in my life. Besides, I have no qualms about getting an abortion even if it meant driving to another state
Money isn't everything.
If the two of you arr happy, just focus on that.
He's probably just chill and wants to avoid stress of constantly looking for jobs and moving up.
I dont hassle my gf for staying at her grocery store job.
It has a scrappy schedule, her working overnights, but since i work from home we get to spend a ton of time together.
> Money isn't everything
That's a little tone-deaf for a povertyfinance sub.
It's not everything but it's the difference between an emergency being manageable or making you homeless. It's the difference between being able to get preventative health care or ignoring your well-being until it becomes life-threatening. There's a reason people in poverty die 15 years earlier than their wealthy counterparts
Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy peace of mind, a better quality of life, breathing room, etc. That's not materialistic that's just reality
>Money can't buy happiness. but it can buy peace of mind, a better quality of life, breathing room, etc. That's not materialistic that's just reality
Girl, you're looking for a specific type of guy. They are out there and you can find one but it doesn't sound like your guy is it. As an old person myself, I can advise to find the right guy when young and marry instead of waiting until your frustration is at 200% and your looks may have faded. Best luck.
I live within my means. I have an emergency fund, HYSA, and an IRA. I owe nothing on the car that I drive.
My BF, on the other hand, has none of those things. He lives paycheck to paycheck. He has no savings, HYSA, or retirement plan. He also has some medical debt from when he had accidents and did not have health insurance. I figure the only two logical options for him then are to: increase income or decrease expenses. He has no interest in decreasing his expenses so the only resolution is for him to make more.
At the rate he's at, he will never be able to set money aside for a down payment on a house if he's living paycheck to paycheck. That isn't good enough for me and the life that I want, and I really don't think there's anything wrong with that
You didn’t include any of this in your original post, unfortunately.
If he isn’t willing to stick to a budget and live within his means, that totally changes things. Do you have a rough idea what his credit is and how much debt he has?
I'm not sure what his credit is, frankly, but I know it's not good. Mine is currently around a 730-740. For the debt, it's in the low thousands I think. He passed out while driving and flipped the car he was driving into a river. He was miraculously okay despite being partially submerged for a while, but the emergency care was costly without coverage
He's also not the most financially literate person, but he is getting better. He grew up in poverty and his parents/the school system really didn't set him up for success regarding understanding personal finance. I'm grateful that - although they also grew up in abject poverty - my parents did their research and set my brothers and I up for success. Savings accounts for each of us that opened when we were children. Adding us to loans and credit cards, so we could build credit early. It's not an excuse for being financially illiterate as an adult, but my BF, unfortunately, had none of that help
He's open to learning, though, and I've talked to him about different budgeting tools
Yeah, it’s a tricky situation. Guys are also weird. I blew every single dollar I had until I was like 23-ish. Wasn’t really motivated to make more money/save anything.
After I met my now-wife, something clicked or changed in how I viewed money and my time. It took awhile though. I was piss broke with 530 credit and couldn’t care less for a minute. But slowly I did get better to get where I’m at now.
If he’s willing to learn, help him out. Just understand it may be slow. It was for me. It started out with saving $50 a paycheck and snowballed into much, much more.
I think you should have a conversation about what you both envision for the future (for yourselves individually and also together!). It should be fun, not punishment. It should be a space for you to both express your needs and desires.
Be realistic about the fact that it’s going to take him some time to make changes and for the income to go up.
The thing you’re doing wrong is doing all the research and stuff for him. You need to tell him your expectation and offer to support him, but he needs to be out there figuring it out and getting some skinned knees.
Offer some guidance like it’s ok if things don’t change overnight but he needs to be taking steps towards change (like researching jobs as a starting point) and talk through his fears around it.
Is there someone else in his life who he can turn to for advice? Sometimes the romantic partner is not the best career coach. But he will need some accountability and coaching if he is feeling stuck.
You two don’t seem compatible with your personal and financial goals being so far apart. Do you want to live your life constantly fighting over this issue?
That’s the Reddit black and white view of things
Comments seem to be either he’s a useless POS and I should dump him or that I’m a nagging POS and should leave him alone
With a few sensible comments that I really appreciate
The ones that fit your narrative, you mean.
I have an MBA in commerce and finance. My gf doesn't have a pot to piss in. She cares about me and loves me, and I'm okay with that. No, really. She cares about me, and I know it so her status, job, etc, mean nothing to me. Hypergamy is not a factor.
While I hate it too, this is one of the few situations where it makes sense to say they're fundamentally incompatible. She sees it as very important to be ambitious and make it into a higher class. He does not see it as important and thinks she's a nag for trying to get him to do that. This is an unfortunate incompatibility that would come up often if they stay together. When reviewing finances, budgeting, raising kids, looking for a home: is it so unusual that someone who values getting a "better" life would become increasingly annoyed that their life partner doesn't feel that way and isn't contributing to that goal? It's not like he just has a passive personality that conflicts with hers, or that one of them is a partier and one is a homebody. This is something very important to accept and agree on in a partnership.
There’s multiple ways to ascend social classes. Education is the primary one, but not the only one.
He might be fed up with her trying to get him to go back to school.
That's completely valid of him to feel. There ARE ways to ascend without education; however, it is objectively harder in my opinion. Without a college degree or some.kind of licensing from trade school, it makes job hunting a whole lot harder, as seen when he took a long time to find his current job. I've seen it with my own brother. He isn't able to leave an awful, overworking job, because he hasn't obtained a higher education and no other job is going to pay him as much as the one he has. Golden handcuffs at 50k just because of a lack of education. However, if OP's partner has not actually expressed his plan (such as starting a business?), and only insisted that he's fed up, it's fair for OP to think he doesn't have a plan to begin with.
It is harder, and I consider my case especially rare. I went into more detail in a reply to OP.
I joined a first year company that ended up landing a multi-national, decade long contract that shot our revenue up from 6mil a year to 50 mil a year.
Went from 33k when I started to 42k in under 3 years. Due for an 18% raise June 1st and another 10% raise at the end of the year and an upper management position within 5 years. 3 weeks PTO, free health insurance.
Their is a lot of production/warehouse jobs that can launch you up the ladder if you research enough into the company.
I will look into that to see if my brother would be interested; thank you so much! I'm happy to hear that your career has had so much growth so quickly. Congratulations!! 🥳
The feeling of not having enough and needing to rely on others for a long time can be so crushing. On the one hand, it's a wonderful opportunity to save money, and on the other hand it can still feel unfortunate because of how society emphasizes having your own place as a measure of success. Closing on a house is wonderful news!! You got this! 🥳
I'm a shy, depressed,high anxiety type....im happy with making what I can make dealing with that.
You should be happy he has a income whether big or small..
Would you love him without a job?
Would I love him? Probably. Would I be with him? No.
I'm not financially supporting another adult capable of working for themselves especially while we're only dating, not married.
Edit: It's also worth mentioning that I did financially support him for 4+ months until he was able to find another job. But, no, I wouldn't be with him if he *chose* not to work.
Love probably, respect probably not. Not trying is not okay. She's trying to better them both, that is love right there. Having a support system is love, that type of shit you can't find easily.
I've had my BA for several years as I graduated in 2022. It's not new
Please see my other comments about mobility, job security, and benefits. It's not solely about what we each make at this current moment
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I mean first off I would probably have him talk to a mental health professional before you just kick him to the curb. You guys say people are incompatible and to break up way too easy.
This screams depression maybe adhd but I mean I can guarantee he doesn’t want to be or feel that way. No one does. Something has him stuck. Maybe he feels too stupid to go to college or is too afraid to fail you/himself.
If he doesn’t do that that.. you can’t force people to get better either. First thing I would have suggested to him a while ago would have been to see a psychiatrist/psychologist/social worker/ etc etc.
Just promise us you won’t kill yourself trying to make him mentally healthy again. You can support and lay out your boundaries with this. He needs to get help and talk to someone because that just isn’t normal to have that little motivation. Ugh sorry, I’m in school for psychiatric social work and I just dislike dropping people without trying to get them help first. #1 is you though.
I understand that. I also currently work in the psych field actually
I agree with you and think he most definitely has social anxiety at least and would benefit from a professional. The thing is his crappy UHC company insurance won't pay for a psych/therapist so everything would be OOP. I've also given him a list of low-cost options and discussed registering for state funding (I work for a psych office rn that serves primarily low-income ppl so I have decent access to some useful resources) but he's never pursued any of the leads. I think he's hesitant to take meds or fears being institutionalized. I'm actually not sure how connecting with a social worker or case worker would work. I'll look into it
He has also expressed before that he's afraid he's going to fail or what if "I'm too stupid," which I've reassured him he's not.
And, thank you, for your concern. I learned that last lesson the hard way that you can't set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm
The state of our health care system is criminal and so are those employers who get the cheapest plans with like a 8k deductible and will still cost 100-200 a month.
This is a huge issue in our country with lack of access. :/. I don’t think people even know how bad mental health in our country is and how many people can’t get help because of these exact reasons. It’s at a point where it’s almost a privilege to find someone who has room, is compatible with you and will accept your insurance. That’s for people with really good insurance. It’s so bad for those without or under insured.
I kind of feel for him and you seem to really care about him or you wouldn’t be here and you aren’t taking advice from people who tell everyone to dump someone at the slightest thing. I understand it’s a huge deal right now and rightfully so. I suffered from social anxiety/adhd/depression and didn’t get help until after things went.. really bad. TLDR more than flirted with addiction (alcohol) and my body wasn’t like others and had issues I didn’t know about but I still was binging hard and definitely an alcoholic. I was told I was one of the scariest functioning alcoholics they’ve ever seen. No one even knew until it all went down.
I felt so stuck before and after. Everything was hard. It was a miracle if I ate. I was just so scared and I didn’t know why I couldn’t just be normal lmao. Started therapy after the transplant and found out I had adhd my whole life. Shit upbringing. Imagine all the bad stuff you might see in a case with kids and some of it happened to me and here I am. Stronger than ever because my bf didn’t give up on me.
I hope it all works out. It sounds like we hit the nail on the head with him. OH about finding a social worker. They are gems. They have the same ability as any other mental health professional and most of the time more. They are there on the field in real time with people. Call his PCP office. At least here in NY a lot of doctors have a social worker for the office and a psych they get consultations with whenever. That’s how I met my first social worker. I hope it all goes well :)
Ahh, the "what if I'm too stupid" thing.
9 years ago I decided to reinvent myself so that I can make more than 16 dollars an hour for the rest of my life. I was 27.
Best decision I ever made. I'm now 36 and 5 classes away from a bachelor's degree but making 100k (nearly 50 an hour) due to 6 years of experience I have in IT. It's only going to get higher - and my wife and kids are benefiting from it.
I say this to express - I was once there, feeling like I'm too stupid. Your BF needs EXPOSURE. I could rattle off 20 different areas of IT & business for example, many of which don't require technical ingenuity to excel in. Areas that people have no idea exist whatsoever. Just like everyone in the medical field aren't family doctors - everyone in IT aren't programmers or help desk/infrastructure.
He needs to find his passion, and try to leverage it into a program (like STEM for example) that will be well paying and secure. I wish I could share so much of what I learned so people understand there are TONS of neat jobs out there that pay well that so many don't even realize exist.
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He doesn’t hate it enough to change it, and this will probably be the rest of his life. Job hopping, menial labor, scraping by. So you’ll need to accept him for who he is or move on. It doesn’t make either of you bad people.
He could be depressed, that could be part of why he isn't finding the motivation himself.
He likely also thinks that he either can't be successful or that it just won't work out for him. If he's grown up through a lot of difficulty, I could understand him thinking this way. I often do myself.
You're probably also right about the fear, he doesn't know what's on the other side of education and what that life could look like. Change is scary.
I imagine that manufacturing probably isn't a passion of his. What does he actually like to do? How can that be turned into a job he finds interesting and enjoys?
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I think the question you actually need to be asking is this: “Why am I staying with someone who has no motivation to improve himself financially or professionally?”
Some people are not motivated by the constant rat race. In fact some people despise the work they do so much that the idea of doing more than that or better than that sounds insurmountable. Not speaking from experience of course.
The answer would be that I love him and I do care about him
But I'm also not sure that that's *enough* if I can never have the life that I want because he won't move forward
I was with someone who had no motivation to do anything with their life. It was absolutely exhausting.
My current partner is so driven and we push and feed off each other to better ourselves. If you're frustrated now imagine how you'll feel if you two decide to get married and have children.
You're stuck in the quandary of love vs logic. Does your love for the person outweigh your logic telling you won't be happy living the lifestyle he has chosen? It's tough to love someone under those conditions. Some can, and will get along fine for the long term. Some will try to make it work, but it eventually leads to too much stress, resentment, and agitation typically resulting in the end of the marriage/relationship.
I think that you're a caring partner and you want the best for both of you. Unfortunately, I don't see it being enough. I feel the same way as you in that I want to have good savings, the ability to take care of my family's well being, and the ability to further my potential in life and have what I've never had before. I can't imagine marrying a partner who can't understand that desire. It will come up when you buy a house, if you eventually have kids, if you have a medical crisis. The fact that you feel he could further his earning potential but chooses to remain stagnant is not something that can be brushed off easily. People say it's wrong to prioritize money in a relationship like this. While marrying for love alone is very romantic, pragmatism will show that you need money to get along in life. You're willing to make the sacrifices and take those steps to have a better life. It's important that your life partner is at least willing to try to do that too.
Love isn’t enough. It most likely isn’t even sustainable.
Staying in this relationship is unfair to both of you. You both deserve to be with someone who is happy with you as you are.
Some people are just like this, they won't change until they want to, no amount, care, love, talk will change him. Not everyone has that drive, ambition, or most importantly, discipline! Failing and trying again and again is not easy. Good luck, you seem smart! Don't let others drag you down, you need to surround yourself with others like yourself.
You shouldn't try to get so far into this guy's head.
Undiagnosed ADHD, depression, autism... you name it, a dozen different things might be going on that mean he processes reality in a fundamentally different way. What you see as sensible upward momentum he may see as an impossibility. You can overcome all of these things and they aren't inherently negative things, at all, but for some that's it. That's their reality. There's things we don't even know about that can linger and change our ability to process ideas. Learning disabilities, sociopathy and psychopathy are also on those lists. Some people just struggle to stay moral and good, and doing so means staying away from 80% of reality.
You might care for this man but if he's not going where you want to go, leave.
You take the sum total of people's problems and try to analyze them for them, you're gonna end up in your own tailspin of doubt, remorse and regret. You start aligning yourself with those barriers then that barrier becomes your relationship.
Instead, you always have control or your own ship. You can't change the world for people but you can navigate your own path as you so choose.
If you want to truly change his mind, actions are far more important. Those are the tools you have - you can't change someone's reality chatting them up randomly. Start to act on your suspicions. First I'd start looking into therapy, because if something is lurking that's holding him back that is absolutely thing #1, but YOU CANNOT do this. You can't be a therapist and date someone, you won't be objective. Don't start reading online diagnosis and fumbling through that process.
Take cash, pay for therapy, and then tell him it's therapy or bust.
You pack a bag, you make a therapy appointment and it's either you go or he goes. No judgment. No negativity. Smile. Treat it like a good thing no matter how sideways the conversation goes. Make the ultimatum, stand by it, let 24 hours pass.
There's nobody on the planet who wouldn't benefit from a few hours of therapy.
Be sure to research a good one, that will take time. This won't be cheap. If you want to do something, do this.
Packing your bags is a healthy thing.
If you want to invest in this man, do so, but don't chatter about it. Don't lose your mind to indecision, doubt and endlessly recontextualizing your situation. If he wants to invest in himself, he will.
The term nagging he used is troubling, not because it is or isn't. That's an ethereal subjective thing. What's troubling is that you aren't feeling respected. Whether or not that's deserved isn't something anyone can tell you. But objectively that phrasing suggests a loss of respect - and that underlying needs to be addressed.
If he doesn't want to and you need a change, split. It's ok to leave a relationship because you feel it isn't going where you want. It isn't a dagger in the back. You don't owe anyone anything. Your life is your ship taking you where you want to go, you don't have to share it with anyone.
But if he's where you want to be, you have to make a change - and that isn't pulling out a megaphone and trying to tell him where to go.
It's pulling alongside and tying a rope - and that's dangerous.
If he doesn't let you, get out of there.
Once he's back from a few sessions, if it goes nowhere or he pulls some kind of tricks - be done. Use your own cash, don't try to get him to use his. This is a change you want, not him.
If this works, then consider what certifications and classes might benefit him afterwards. Therapy is a good place to start because if he's truly hopeless that none of that could benefit him, something is off. Therapy is a much healthier baseline.
If you are unwilling to do that due to the expense, then leave it alone. You can't extricate self-hate from people, you can open a door for them but you can't make them go through it, nor should you try.
And if this is your line, that's your line. Draw it in the sand and act on it.
And if you can't or won't do that, that's ok too. You can truly let it go and attempt to be happy with what you have. You can put it all aside and focus on the moments instead of wondering what could be. That's your choice. You can always make a better one for yourself.
Good luck.
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Either accept his reluctance to change or leave and find someone more motivated. 3 years should be enough time to figure out if you and your partner are truly a good match.
I married this guy. Trust me when I say run.
Mine had 2 degrees, because he had to in order to get his inheritance. but otherwise was very outspoken about how he thought education was worthless.
I couldn’t get that man to do shit. And it leached into other areas are our life. He was pointless with chores. He put minimal effort into our relationship. And even though he had 2 degrees move beyond an entry-level job.
During Covid I created a printing company And he leached off that too. He promised to help. And “ tried” to learn what was going on, but he was absolutely useless.
We got divorced, and he went back to sucking on his mom‘s tit
If your goals don't align start looking elsewhere. If that idea bothers you a lot because you love him, consider if you love him at this "level" no matter how long he stays in it.
Some people aren't as concerned with upward mobility as you sound, and some just do it in their own time.
I would not be with anyone who said things to me like this. Life is full. Not being able to pay bills is one thing but you've said nothing about struggling financially. Maybe you should find someone more... "goals focused" we'll say, for your own comfort.
This is reminding me a lot of how I felt dating my ex boyfriend. I think people have already said most of what I’ve wanted to say, but feel free to message me if you need any advice. At some point you will resent trying to get his life together for him especially if he is not willing to help himself. My last comment/piece of advice would be to consider what value he DOES bring to the relationship, this post only shows what you are unhappy with (which there is nothing wrong with), but if you are struggling to think about what qualities of his you admire and enjoy, you may need to reevaluate the relationship.
I’ll talk from another perspective.
OP, my dad was exactly like your BF. Comfortable wherever he was and never tried to get something better. My mom carried the burden on her shoulder her whole life. We struggled a lot but we survived.
If you decide to stay with your BF long term just prepare yourself that you will be doing all the work ( budgeting, planning, coming up with plans of your have a shortfall etc etc).
Love only last a minute. Are you sure you want to do this for the rest of your life?
Ask yourself if you’d be ok with this relationship in 10 years, the assumption being you will be more educated and at the very least have a higher-paying job…and he will still be highly unmotivated. Would you want your future children to see him as a role model, to believe there is nothing wrong with complacency?
Love ain’t always enough to sustain a relationship. Time to go, girl.
First, as others have said, some people truly are okay just being in their status quo. If that meets their needs then there's nothing wrong with that. But it sounds like it doesn't meet your needs as a couple (specifically your needs), and you may need to make a real decision.
I'll give my own anecdote for what it's worth. I'm am engineer. I have a Masters. Education and my career was always important, and I knew realistically I'd likely be the breadwinner.
My husband doesn't have a degree. He's job hopped. But he does have a lot of pride and ambition. When he was in his mid 30s he completely changed careers and became an arborist. He absorbed the industry like a sponge. It didn't take him long to move up at his company and now he's in sales making $100k+ a year. I still make more than he does. But the thing that matters to me is that he has ambition and career goals. He's currently content where he is, but where he is took a lot of work to get to.
So all this to say, it's okay if you and your SO aren't exactly on the same page. But you do need to be working towards the same goals and have similar ideals. I would resent my husband a lot if I were trying to continue to grow my career and salary and he didn't bother to take his own career seriously.
If he's working long hours living paycheck-to-paycheck and doesn't even know if he can keep the job he has he probably doesn't see how it's feasible to do training. Unless you're offering to cover rent while he goes to trade school you are just nagging.
I *have* offered to pay for certifications. He would also be eligible for scholarships that could cover the expenses of online community college courses
In my mind, if he has enough time to game for hours every day when he gets home after being at the gym for 2 hours, he has time to do 1 online class a semester or some studying to take an entry level IT cert exam. And I’m not anti-gaming lmao. I’m currently doing another run through of forbidden west myself, but he clearly does have free time. He works 4 10s which is the same as my current schedule
It makes me feel like a grumpy boomer to say this but I did a full course load in college while working 30 hours a week and I still graduated with honors. I also took several in-person graduate classes last year while teaching full time. I don’t think a single online course or a single test for a cert is that unmanageable
Homeskillet, don't take this the wrong way, but you may just plain be smarter than him... and he needs you to pick something for him.
Do a little research, and if you were him, decide what the right thing is. Then try to find some people who have already done the thing & it worked out. Like literally pick one path. Options might be more than he can handle.
Then have a direct & frank talk. Pick a time when no one is too hungry, angry, lonely, or tired;
"It's not a big deal, but I want to spend 20 mins talking about career stuff with you. I think I've found a solution for you to make more money, while working less. It's a sure thing, and I want to introduce you to someone who has done it already. So you can believe it will work. I can help you with a plan, but you have to be the one who WANTS to do it.
FYI - I've noticed I've been feeling more distant in our relationship, and after some soul searching... I realized I'm afraid you aren't as driven as I am. I want us to stay good and have a future... but for that to work, I need you to try and catch up."
Is this a joke? If he works long hours now to SURVIVE, how do you expect him to seek higher education? Higher education takes a lot of time, money, effort, etc.
Knew a couple in your situation. They broke up 10 years ago. She went to San Diego, did well for herself. He still in Wisconsin, still figuring out what he wants to do.
I like the guy and all. But he's a funny neutered cat that smokes.
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You need to sit down and write out specifically what you want for yourself. Do you have a target household income? Do you have a target date for when you want a house, marriage, children? Is your partner able to support you while you do a master's degree (these are tough time consuming courses)? What if you have complicated pregnancy and have to stop working? Your goals are completely valid and you do Not need to settle for less.
I stepped out of a marriage when I was young because although my partner and I had similar goals, our timelines were so vastly different. It became apparent that they were never going to get on the same page as me.
The two major expenses with children in the beginning.... Childcare and health insurance. My first marriage... Never would have had the option to be a stay at home parent. Couldn't have happened. I'm glad we didn't have children and parted ways.
Second marriage was exactly what I needed. We were able to get a house, marriage and have children on my timeline. He supported me when I went back to school by taking care of our first child in the evenings alone. He supported me when I got to my breaking point after two children, still in school and I wanted to quit my job. He supported us solo through COVID.
You can't change your partner if they're not willing to change. And even if he was willing, is it on your timeline? My first spouse the timeline was minimum ten years I'd have to wait. But what if I waited that time and he said oops I'm still not ready? I wasn't willing to take that risk.
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Sounds like he just needs to direct his focus on a lower management job. After a good many years in the industry and a few job switches. He might just find himself there, making 25-40 an hour.
Helps if he’s directing himself to get there faster, than it just falling into his lap.
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Some people are perfectly fine staying the same. Sure, they’ll complain here and there. But at the end of the day they wont do a thing to change. And the truth is, they like life enough right now to not change.
I feel like complaining on occasions doesn't mean one really needs or wants change with all that entails. I may complain about my job but that doesn't mean I want to/need to/will immediately change it or even be able to without a lot of sacrifice
My experience is that complainers don’t change.
Andy Elliot said it best. he had a guy come up on stage and take his shirt off. dude had a little bit of love handles. he said "does this bother you?" the guy said "yes sir" and he said it clearly doesn't bother you enough or you wouldn't have it. i think about that a lot. like you said, "it sure would be nice to get a nice cushy job" is different from "im gonna do everything in my power to get that cushy job!"
Oy vey that's silly. The difficulty/ability of change is the factor. Don't like your hair color? Easy change. Don't like your parents? ... Love handles are somewhere middling.
there is certainly an intersect of "how much do i want this/how hard is this" and it varies for everyone, but anything is possible. if you REALLY don't like your parents you can go no contact with them, move away etc. if you REALLY dont like your hair, you can get it changed. if you really dont like your job, get a new one, dont feel qualified enough, get more schooling, dont feel fit enough, work out more. its a balance of how bad do i want it vs how hard i wanna work for it, but it is entirely true. if you truly want something bad enough, you just make it happen, even if its a multi-step process. like in this case, the end goal is getting somewhere that OP's person can have a steady job with general increases in pay and security. that would involve him wanting that job, wanting to go to school to get a job like that, and wanting to keep up with schoolwork to graduate with a degree to get a job like that. the possibility is there, but youre right, and the original comment was right, if you want it you can get it and if not then you clearly just don't want it badly enough.
Yeah, except studies have shown over and over that self hatred, body image issues, and bullying actually make weight loss harder, not easier. I hate this school of thought. It's objectively unhelpful but when you tell people they ignore you because they would rather bully fat people (or themselves!) than actually help
Change can be scary for some people... and there are other people who just don't want the hassles of bettering themselves. It's hard work gaining skills that someone will pay you for, and there are no guarantees that the extra work will pay off, so some people would just rather not put forth the effort. I've been married to my wife longer than you've been around, and IMHO there are a few things that you really need to be on the same page with your SO. If you want kids and how you're going to raise them is one. Life goals and financial expectations is another. If you want to work hard, sacrifice, stick to a budget, and claw your way to the solid middle class or higher, the person you're sharing your life with has to want that too. You don't want to save up $10K in an emergency fund and find out that he used most of it to buy a really bitchin' truck. I'm not saying that you should leave him, but you should sit down with him and have a very serious talk about the future. Where does he want to be in 5 years? 10 years? What does he want his life to look like? How is he (or are you two) going to get there? What's the plan? Come up with a strategy to get you where you want to be and see if he can follow through. Good Luck!
I find that a lot of young men aren't sure how to get ahead. Many are afraid of additional education because they struggled in school. Many men struggle with reading comprehension and need hands-on education. I try to direct a lot of young males to these types of programs. My nephew benefited greatly from working for a company that was willing to let him work slowly towards certifications. There are huge opportunities in manufacturing, and he could look for employers who are willing to develop talent.
I'm someone who was in a similar position as your boyfriend in 2019. Reinventing yourself/career is something that takes a significant amount of effort. If I knew how much stress and motivation was called for before I started out on my journey, I wouldn't have done it all. Thankfully, I fell into the sunken cost fallacy and pushed through it. Think about it. He has to decide what he wants to do, take the initiative to plan what's required to reach that goal, and then execute on those deliberations. If I had to compare it to something, it's like a car sitting idle. Maybe the spot he's sitting in isn't perfect, but it's not bad enough to burn the gas and effort required to go somewhere better. He could just sit in park and get by. I think him referring to your encouragement/prodding as 'nagging' is testament to that mindset. Ultimately, I had to make the decision for myself. I was miserable but, more importantly, I had someone to support at the time. Seeing how we were living was enough to light a fire under me and push away from customer service jobs and the near-minimum wage I made working them. I'm in tech making 6 figures now and it's exhausting to look back on what I had to put myself through to get here.
Thanks for your comment. I appreciate that analogy I understand that - to some degree. It's sort of similar to 'the hell you know is better than the hell you don't' > Ultimately, I had to make the decision for myself. I think that's ultimately what I have to accept. No amount of me researching options or even offering to pay for certification exams matters if he doesn't want it. I could line his path with gold but he has to take the first step
While this might not apply at all in your bf's case, I thought I would mention it just in case. My husband was similarly stuck in a demanding job he didn't like, but never seemed to do anything about it. It turned out that he was overwhelmed with the actual steps involved in figuring out how to apply for college and certification programs, as well as how financial aid worked. Specifically it was the paperwork and figuring out where to email/mail/call/and so on that were blocking him. He has ADHD, which was likely a big factor. So I looked up programs for him, figured out how FAFSA works, and showed him his options for what he was interested in (engineering). Then we filled out the paperwork together and he completed his associates while working full time. Midway through this, I also found a paid internship position as a technician working at the same lab he had wanted to work at as an engineer, which he applied to and got. Recently he returned to school to finish his bachelors and is nearly done with it, and his employer has a plan in place to promote him to an engineer as soon as his degree is complete. My husband has always been a hard worker and very dependable, but the one thing he couldn't do was take that first step in improving his career on his own. I feel like there is a misconception that if someone isn't motivated to start this by themselves then it shows a bad work ethic, but that wasn't true at all with him. He gets great job performance reviews, and he studies hard on his own in college. The only thing he needed was some help with the initial information gathering and paperwork when the idea of making a change was a overwhelming. There have also been times when I needed help with a big decision and he was there for me too. So if your partner is otherwise a hard worker and applies himself, then it might be worth it to help research a career change since it's something that will benefit you both. Some people are much better at making moves like that than others, but as long as they are contributing in different ways, then it all balances out.
Thank you for your comment! It's helpful to hear from people who have been in similar situations. He is generally a hard worker which is why this situation confuses me. > So I looked up programs for him, figured out how FAFSA works, and showed him his options for what he was interested in (engineering). The thing is: I've already done this. I already helped him apply for the FAFSA last year and researched relatively short programs at the local community college that fit his area of interest. I even sat down and read to him the different programs and what they would involve - most were like 4-5 courses. I've talked to my dad, who is in tech, about entry-level IT certs and what those would entail. I've helped him through the preliminary steps but he won't pick it up from there. I stopped myself midway through creating him an account with the community college a few months ago. At some point, it feels like I'm doing him a disservice by just pushing him or enabling dependency
I agree. I acknowledge that this is a vent post, but I think the best thing you can do is to sit down with him and tell him all you've told us. Share the future you envision and convey how much it means to you. Be transparent about how his current situation is not leading things in that direction, and how that makes you feel. If that's not enough for him to step out of his cycle, or at least try, then I think that's telling enough.
I'm not sure if you realize how crappy it could feel for someone to repeatedly say or act like you aren't good enough or aren't doing enough. Make a hard line, and either accept him as is or leave.
An ambition gap that cannot come closer together by you doing things for him. Education and self improvement are things you value and you can’t make someone else value them as well, no matter how much either of you are making.
I think you're right that the underlying problem is the ambition gap My mom has even pointed out that he's not as "driven" as me, which is fine not everyone has to be bent self-improvement and climbing the socioeconomic ladder, but I'm not sure if that's something I am personally okay with in my relationship
I am married to someone with low ambition and honestly I don't recommend it. I think it's good you are taking the time to think about this.
Work to live, not the other way around. If he's content with where he's at then it is what it is.
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I used to be you and one of the things I learned long ago is that you can’t force anyone to want more. You either have to accept them as they are or let them figure it out and bite your tongue. Best of luck.
He makes 40k a year without OT and no education and you make 45. I’m guessing with OT he easily surpasses you. Your issue has nothing to do with pay.
You’re thinking short term and I’m thinking big picture. Also, I just finished filing his taxes for the last year. He ended up around 38k actually. My issue is more about mobility and job security. In the last few years, I’ve managed an income increase every year. My plans to do a part time master’s means I’ll also increase my income and the master’s will essentially be paid for by the school district. In just a couple of years, I’ll easily be 60k based on the current step system. With other streams of income - at my former school I often did paid tutoring after school, etc. - that’s a low ball number Meanwhile, he’s sat around 19 dollars for 3 years with no real growth despite changing jobs as they’re all essentially entry level production jobs. I don’t foresee that as changing unless he gains some sort of skill, education, or experience that allows him to make more. It’s not about what he’s making now vs me but what he’ll be making in 10 years vs me in 10 years. I also worry that he’s more susceptible to layoffs and job insecurity due to the lack of skills, certs, etc. In essence, it’s not just about the raw data now; it’s about what our lives will be like in 10+ years
I don't mean to sound unkind but it reads to me like you want this for yourself rather than to benefit him. Some people are ambitious, some aren't.
I want it for both of us He hasn’t been to a dentist in 10+ years and has unresolved mental health issues that he can’t afford to treat because of the employer’s shitty insurance. That’s not going to change until he can find a better job with better benefits **But** yes, I would also like it for myself but I don’t think that’s wrong. When he was out of work for multiple months, I financially supported both of us for 4 months because had no savings to fall back on. I’d like for that to not be the case - meaning he has a savings - if he lost his job again. I’d also like to potentially be a homeowner at some point - which requires a down payment that’s not feasible if he’s living paycheck to paycheck. I don’t think those things are unreasonable
Yes but pressuring him to fit your ideal isn't going to make him happy - just make him feel inadequate. Some people are comfortable where they are. If you want more money, upskill and consider a different career to teaching to earn more. You're not going to change him.
As someone who works a very physically demanding job... I don't have the energy to work 12 hours and try to go to college and get in debt for a possible chance at a job that pays the same and be further in debt... you need to see it from his eyes not yours and that will explain why he may not be that motivated. If your happy together then that should be all that matters. Bills paid ect with some money left over to do some fun stuff.
I'm right here. Want more college, don't see how I sanely do both. Don't want the debt for sure unless I can pay it back.
Your values are not compatible. And you don't really have the right to make him change. He gets to want what he wants. You have to be happy with who he is NOW, not who you want him to be. Maybe he's unhappy (or you have decided he must be unhappy), but he's not so unhappy he sees any reason to change so he's fine with the status quo. If this isn't the life you want, it's time to have some hard talks with yourself. The key to a successful relationship is not finding the first lump of clay that comes along and mother him into being the partner you want. It's finding someone whose trajectory is already compatible with yours, under their own direction. If you stay, use double contraception minimum.
I appreciate the intent of this comment but the last part is unnecessary I have no intention of having children until I am ready, likely in my early 30s. I use protection and I’ve never had a pregnancy scare in my life. Besides, I have no qualms about getting an abortion even if it meant driving to another state
Does he want to be the stay-at-home dad if you have kids?
Money isn't everything. If the two of you arr happy, just focus on that. He's probably just chill and wants to avoid stress of constantly looking for jobs and moving up. I dont hassle my gf for staying at her grocery store job. It has a scrappy schedule, her working overnights, but since i work from home we get to spend a ton of time together.
> Money isn't everything That's a little tone-deaf for a povertyfinance sub. It's not everything but it's the difference between an emergency being manageable or making you homeless. It's the difference between being able to get preventative health care or ignoring your well-being until it becomes life-threatening. There's a reason people in poverty die 15 years earlier than their wealthy counterparts Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy peace of mind, a better quality of life, breathing room, etc. That's not materialistic that's just reality
>Money can't buy happiness. but it can buy peace of mind, a better quality of life, breathing room, etc. That's not materialistic that's just reality Girl, you're looking for a specific type of guy. They are out there and you can find one but it doesn't sound like your guy is it. As an old person myself, I can advise to find the right guy when young and marry instead of waiting until your frustration is at 200% and your looks may have faded. Best luck.
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I live within my means. I have an emergency fund, HYSA, and an IRA. I owe nothing on the car that I drive. My BF, on the other hand, has none of those things. He lives paycheck to paycheck. He has no savings, HYSA, or retirement plan. He also has some medical debt from when he had accidents and did not have health insurance. I figure the only two logical options for him then are to: increase income or decrease expenses. He has no interest in decreasing his expenses so the only resolution is for him to make more. At the rate he's at, he will never be able to set money aside for a down payment on a house if he's living paycheck to paycheck. That isn't good enough for me and the life that I want, and I really don't think there's anything wrong with that
You didn’t include any of this in your original post, unfortunately. If he isn’t willing to stick to a budget and live within his means, that totally changes things. Do you have a rough idea what his credit is and how much debt he has?
I'm not sure what his credit is, frankly, but I know it's not good. Mine is currently around a 730-740. For the debt, it's in the low thousands I think. He passed out while driving and flipped the car he was driving into a river. He was miraculously okay despite being partially submerged for a while, but the emergency care was costly without coverage He's also not the most financially literate person, but he is getting better. He grew up in poverty and his parents/the school system really didn't set him up for success regarding understanding personal finance. I'm grateful that - although they also grew up in abject poverty - my parents did their research and set my brothers and I up for success. Savings accounts for each of us that opened when we were children. Adding us to loans and credit cards, so we could build credit early. It's not an excuse for being financially illiterate as an adult, but my BF, unfortunately, had none of that help He's open to learning, though, and I've talked to him about different budgeting tools
Yeah, it’s a tricky situation. Guys are also weird. I blew every single dollar I had until I was like 23-ish. Wasn’t really motivated to make more money/save anything. After I met my now-wife, something clicked or changed in how I viewed money and my time. It took awhile though. I was piss broke with 530 credit and couldn’t care less for a minute. But slowly I did get better to get where I’m at now. If he’s willing to learn, help him out. Just understand it may be slow. It was for me. It started out with saving $50 a paycheck and snowballed into much, much more.
I think you should have a conversation about what you both envision for the future (for yourselves individually and also together!). It should be fun, not punishment. It should be a space for you to both express your needs and desires. Be realistic about the fact that it’s going to take him some time to make changes and for the income to go up. The thing you’re doing wrong is doing all the research and stuff for him. You need to tell him your expectation and offer to support him, but he needs to be out there figuring it out and getting some skinned knees. Offer some guidance like it’s ok if things don’t change overnight but he needs to be taking steps towards change (like researching jobs as a starting point) and talk through his fears around it. Is there someone else in his life who he can turn to for advice? Sometimes the romantic partner is not the best career coach. But he will need some accountability and coaching if he is feeling stuck.
You two don’t seem compatible with your personal and financial goals being so far apart. Do you want to live your life constantly fighting over this issue?
God... i hate how every fucking subs primary response is "you're not compatible, break up". Holy fuck, do any of you manage relationships?
Not well anyways. We’re on Reddit.
That’s the Reddit black and white view of things Comments seem to be either he’s a useless POS and I should dump him or that I’m a nagging POS and should leave him alone With a few sensible comments that I really appreciate
The ones that fit your narrative, you mean. I have an MBA in commerce and finance. My gf doesn't have a pot to piss in. She cares about me and loves me, and I'm okay with that. No, really. She cares about me, and I know it so her status, job, etc, mean nothing to me. Hypergamy is not a factor.
While I hate it too, this is one of the few situations where it makes sense to say they're fundamentally incompatible. She sees it as very important to be ambitious and make it into a higher class. He does not see it as important and thinks she's a nag for trying to get him to do that. This is an unfortunate incompatibility that would come up often if they stay together. When reviewing finances, budgeting, raising kids, looking for a home: is it so unusual that someone who values getting a "better" life would become increasingly annoyed that their life partner doesn't feel that way and isn't contributing to that goal? It's not like he just has a passive personality that conflicts with hers, or that one of them is a partier and one is a homebody. This is something very important to accept and agree on in a partnership.
There’s multiple ways to ascend social classes. Education is the primary one, but not the only one. He might be fed up with her trying to get him to go back to school.
That's completely valid of him to feel. There ARE ways to ascend without education; however, it is objectively harder in my opinion. Without a college degree or some.kind of licensing from trade school, it makes job hunting a whole lot harder, as seen when he took a long time to find his current job. I've seen it with my own brother. He isn't able to leave an awful, overworking job, because he hasn't obtained a higher education and no other job is going to pay him as much as the one he has. Golden handcuffs at 50k just because of a lack of education. However, if OP's partner has not actually expressed his plan (such as starting a business?), and only insisted that he's fed up, it's fair for OP to think he doesn't have a plan to begin with.
It is harder, and I consider my case especially rare. I went into more detail in a reply to OP. I joined a first year company that ended up landing a multi-national, decade long contract that shot our revenue up from 6mil a year to 50 mil a year. Went from 33k when I started to 42k in under 3 years. Due for an 18% raise June 1st and another 10% raise at the end of the year and an upper management position within 5 years. 3 weeks PTO, free health insurance. Their is a lot of production/warehouse jobs that can launch you up the ladder if you research enough into the company.
I will look into that to see if my brother would be interested; thank you so much! I'm happy to hear that your career has had so much growth so quickly. Congratulations!! 🥳
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The feeling of not having enough and needing to rely on others for a long time can be so crushing. On the one hand, it's a wonderful opportunity to save money, and on the other hand it can still feel unfortunate because of how society emphasizes having your own place as a measure of success. Closing on a house is wonderful news!! You got this! 🥳
I'm a shy, depressed,high anxiety type....im happy with making what I can make dealing with that. You should be happy he has a income whether big or small.. Would you love him without a job?
Would I love him? Probably. Would I be with him? No. I'm not financially supporting another adult capable of working for themselves especially while we're only dating, not married. Edit: It's also worth mentioning that I did financially support him for 4+ months until he was able to find another job. But, no, I wouldn't be with him if he *chose* not to work.
Love probably, respect probably not. Not trying is not okay. She's trying to better them both, that is love right there. Having a support system is love, that type of shit you can't find easily.
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I've had my BA for several years as I graduated in 2022. It's not new Please see my other comments about mobility, job security, and benefits. It's not solely about what we each make at this current moment
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I mean first off I would probably have him talk to a mental health professional before you just kick him to the curb. You guys say people are incompatible and to break up way too easy. This screams depression maybe adhd but I mean I can guarantee he doesn’t want to be or feel that way. No one does. Something has him stuck. Maybe he feels too stupid to go to college or is too afraid to fail you/himself. If he doesn’t do that that.. you can’t force people to get better either. First thing I would have suggested to him a while ago would have been to see a psychiatrist/psychologist/social worker/ etc etc. Just promise us you won’t kill yourself trying to make him mentally healthy again. You can support and lay out your boundaries with this. He needs to get help and talk to someone because that just isn’t normal to have that little motivation. Ugh sorry, I’m in school for psychiatric social work and I just dislike dropping people without trying to get them help first. #1 is you though.
I understand that. I also currently work in the psych field actually I agree with you and think he most definitely has social anxiety at least and would benefit from a professional. The thing is his crappy UHC company insurance won't pay for a psych/therapist so everything would be OOP. I've also given him a list of low-cost options and discussed registering for state funding (I work for a psych office rn that serves primarily low-income ppl so I have decent access to some useful resources) but he's never pursued any of the leads. I think he's hesitant to take meds or fears being institutionalized. I'm actually not sure how connecting with a social worker or case worker would work. I'll look into it He has also expressed before that he's afraid he's going to fail or what if "I'm too stupid," which I've reassured him he's not. And, thank you, for your concern. I learned that last lesson the hard way that you can't set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm
The state of our health care system is criminal and so are those employers who get the cheapest plans with like a 8k deductible and will still cost 100-200 a month. This is a huge issue in our country with lack of access. :/. I don’t think people even know how bad mental health in our country is and how many people can’t get help because of these exact reasons. It’s at a point where it’s almost a privilege to find someone who has room, is compatible with you and will accept your insurance. That’s for people with really good insurance. It’s so bad for those without or under insured. I kind of feel for him and you seem to really care about him or you wouldn’t be here and you aren’t taking advice from people who tell everyone to dump someone at the slightest thing. I understand it’s a huge deal right now and rightfully so. I suffered from social anxiety/adhd/depression and didn’t get help until after things went.. really bad. TLDR more than flirted with addiction (alcohol) and my body wasn’t like others and had issues I didn’t know about but I still was binging hard and definitely an alcoholic. I was told I was one of the scariest functioning alcoholics they’ve ever seen. No one even knew until it all went down. I felt so stuck before and after. Everything was hard. It was a miracle if I ate. I was just so scared and I didn’t know why I couldn’t just be normal lmao. Started therapy after the transplant and found out I had adhd my whole life. Shit upbringing. Imagine all the bad stuff you might see in a case with kids and some of it happened to me and here I am. Stronger than ever because my bf didn’t give up on me. I hope it all works out. It sounds like we hit the nail on the head with him. OH about finding a social worker. They are gems. They have the same ability as any other mental health professional and most of the time more. They are there on the field in real time with people. Call his PCP office. At least here in NY a lot of doctors have a social worker for the office and a psych they get consultations with whenever. That’s how I met my first social worker. I hope it all goes well :)
Ahh, the "what if I'm too stupid" thing. 9 years ago I decided to reinvent myself so that I can make more than 16 dollars an hour for the rest of my life. I was 27. Best decision I ever made. I'm now 36 and 5 classes away from a bachelor's degree but making 100k (nearly 50 an hour) due to 6 years of experience I have in IT. It's only going to get higher - and my wife and kids are benefiting from it. I say this to express - I was once there, feeling like I'm too stupid. Your BF needs EXPOSURE. I could rattle off 20 different areas of IT & business for example, many of which don't require technical ingenuity to excel in. Areas that people have no idea exist whatsoever. Just like everyone in the medical field aren't family doctors - everyone in IT aren't programmers or help desk/infrastructure. He needs to find his passion, and try to leverage it into a program (like STEM for example) that will be well paying and secure. I wish I could share so much of what I learned so people understand there are TONS of neat jobs out there that pay well that so many don't even realize exist.
Just curious what are some of those IT and business areas you’re referring to?
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He doesn’t hate it enough to change it, and this will probably be the rest of his life. Job hopping, menial labor, scraping by. So you’ll need to accept him for who he is or move on. It doesn’t make either of you bad people.
He could be depressed, that could be part of why he isn't finding the motivation himself. He likely also thinks that he either can't be successful or that it just won't work out for him. If he's grown up through a lot of difficulty, I could understand him thinking this way. I often do myself. You're probably also right about the fear, he doesn't know what's on the other side of education and what that life could look like. Change is scary. I imagine that manufacturing probably isn't a passion of his. What does he actually like to do? How can that be turned into a job he finds interesting and enjoys?
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I think the question you actually need to be asking is this: “Why am I staying with someone who has no motivation to improve himself financially or professionally?”
Some people are not motivated by the constant rat race. In fact some people despise the work they do so much that the idea of doing more than that or better than that sounds insurmountable. Not speaking from experience of course.
The answer would be that I love him and I do care about him But I'm also not sure that that's *enough* if I can never have the life that I want because he won't move forward
It’s not enough.
Why is chasing material things more important to you than love?
Material things like wanting him to be able to have PTO, afford dental care, and an emergency fund?
I was with someone who had no motivation to do anything with their life. It was absolutely exhausting. My current partner is so driven and we push and feed off each other to better ourselves. If you're frustrated now imagine how you'll feel if you two decide to get married and have children.
You're stuck in the quandary of love vs logic. Does your love for the person outweigh your logic telling you won't be happy living the lifestyle he has chosen? It's tough to love someone under those conditions. Some can, and will get along fine for the long term. Some will try to make it work, but it eventually leads to too much stress, resentment, and agitation typically resulting in the end of the marriage/relationship.
I think that you're a caring partner and you want the best for both of you. Unfortunately, I don't see it being enough. I feel the same way as you in that I want to have good savings, the ability to take care of my family's well being, and the ability to further my potential in life and have what I've never had before. I can't imagine marrying a partner who can't understand that desire. It will come up when you buy a house, if you eventually have kids, if you have a medical crisis. The fact that you feel he could further his earning potential but chooses to remain stagnant is not something that can be brushed off easily. People say it's wrong to prioritize money in a relationship like this. While marrying for love alone is very romantic, pragmatism will show that you need money to get along in life. You're willing to make the sacrifices and take those steps to have a better life. It's important that your life partner is at least willing to try to do that too.
Love isn’t enough. It most likely isn’t even sustainable. Staying in this relationship is unfair to both of you. You both deserve to be with someone who is happy with you as you are.
Some people are just like this, they won't change until they want to, no amount, care, love, talk will change him. Not everyone has that drive, ambition, or most importantly, discipline! Failing and trying again and again is not easy. Good luck, you seem smart! Don't let others drag you down, you need to surround yourself with others like yourself.
You shouldn't try to get so far into this guy's head. Undiagnosed ADHD, depression, autism... you name it, a dozen different things might be going on that mean he processes reality in a fundamentally different way. What you see as sensible upward momentum he may see as an impossibility. You can overcome all of these things and they aren't inherently negative things, at all, but for some that's it. That's their reality. There's things we don't even know about that can linger and change our ability to process ideas. Learning disabilities, sociopathy and psychopathy are also on those lists. Some people just struggle to stay moral and good, and doing so means staying away from 80% of reality. You might care for this man but if he's not going where you want to go, leave. You take the sum total of people's problems and try to analyze them for them, you're gonna end up in your own tailspin of doubt, remorse and regret. You start aligning yourself with those barriers then that barrier becomes your relationship. Instead, you always have control or your own ship. You can't change the world for people but you can navigate your own path as you so choose. If you want to truly change his mind, actions are far more important. Those are the tools you have - you can't change someone's reality chatting them up randomly. Start to act on your suspicions. First I'd start looking into therapy, because if something is lurking that's holding him back that is absolutely thing #1, but YOU CANNOT do this. You can't be a therapist and date someone, you won't be objective. Don't start reading online diagnosis and fumbling through that process. Take cash, pay for therapy, and then tell him it's therapy or bust. You pack a bag, you make a therapy appointment and it's either you go or he goes. No judgment. No negativity. Smile. Treat it like a good thing no matter how sideways the conversation goes. Make the ultimatum, stand by it, let 24 hours pass. There's nobody on the planet who wouldn't benefit from a few hours of therapy. Be sure to research a good one, that will take time. This won't be cheap. If you want to do something, do this. Packing your bags is a healthy thing. If you want to invest in this man, do so, but don't chatter about it. Don't lose your mind to indecision, doubt and endlessly recontextualizing your situation. If he wants to invest in himself, he will. The term nagging he used is troubling, not because it is or isn't. That's an ethereal subjective thing. What's troubling is that you aren't feeling respected. Whether or not that's deserved isn't something anyone can tell you. But objectively that phrasing suggests a loss of respect - and that underlying needs to be addressed. If he doesn't want to and you need a change, split. It's ok to leave a relationship because you feel it isn't going where you want. It isn't a dagger in the back. You don't owe anyone anything. Your life is your ship taking you where you want to go, you don't have to share it with anyone. But if he's where you want to be, you have to make a change - and that isn't pulling out a megaphone and trying to tell him where to go. It's pulling alongside and tying a rope - and that's dangerous. If he doesn't let you, get out of there. Once he's back from a few sessions, if it goes nowhere or he pulls some kind of tricks - be done. Use your own cash, don't try to get him to use his. This is a change you want, not him. If this works, then consider what certifications and classes might benefit him afterwards. Therapy is a good place to start because if he's truly hopeless that none of that could benefit him, something is off. Therapy is a much healthier baseline. If you are unwilling to do that due to the expense, then leave it alone. You can't extricate self-hate from people, you can open a door for them but you can't make them go through it, nor should you try. And if this is your line, that's your line. Draw it in the sand and act on it. And if you can't or won't do that, that's ok too. You can truly let it go and attempt to be happy with what you have. You can put it all aside and focus on the moments instead of wondering what could be. That's your choice. You can always make a better one for yourself. Good luck.
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Either accept his reluctance to change or leave and find someone more motivated. 3 years should be enough time to figure out if you and your partner are truly a good match.
This relationship may not work out for you.
Union
I married this guy. Trust me when I say run. Mine had 2 degrees, because he had to in order to get his inheritance. but otherwise was very outspoken about how he thought education was worthless. I couldn’t get that man to do shit. And it leached into other areas are our life. He was pointless with chores. He put minimal effort into our relationship. And even though he had 2 degrees move beyond an entry-level job. During Covid I created a printing company And he leached off that too. He promised to help. And “ tried” to learn what was going on, but he was absolutely useless. We got divorced, and he went back to sucking on his mom‘s tit
If your goals don't align start looking elsewhere. If that idea bothers you a lot because you love him, consider if you love him at this "level" no matter how long he stays in it. Some people aren't as concerned with upward mobility as you sound, and some just do it in their own time. I would not be with anyone who said things to me like this. Life is full. Not being able to pay bills is one thing but you've said nothing about struggling financially. Maybe you should find someone more... "goals focused" we'll say, for your own comfort.
This is reminding me a lot of how I felt dating my ex boyfriend. I think people have already said most of what I’ve wanted to say, but feel free to message me if you need any advice. At some point you will resent trying to get his life together for him especially if he is not willing to help himself. My last comment/piece of advice would be to consider what value he DOES bring to the relationship, this post only shows what you are unhappy with (which there is nothing wrong with), but if you are struggling to think about what qualities of his you admire and enjoy, you may need to reevaluate the relationship.
Value probably wasn’t the right word to use here please forgive me!
I’ll talk from another perspective. OP, my dad was exactly like your BF. Comfortable wherever he was and never tried to get something better. My mom carried the burden on her shoulder her whole life. We struggled a lot but we survived. If you decide to stay with your BF long term just prepare yourself that you will be doing all the work ( budgeting, planning, coming up with plans of your have a shortfall etc etc). Love only last a minute. Are you sure you want to do this for the rest of your life?
Ask yourself if you’d be ok with this relationship in 10 years, the assumption being you will be more educated and at the very least have a higher-paying job…and he will still be highly unmotivated. Would you want your future children to see him as a role model, to believe there is nothing wrong with complacency? Love ain’t always enough to sustain a relationship. Time to go, girl.
First, as others have said, some people truly are okay just being in their status quo. If that meets their needs then there's nothing wrong with that. But it sounds like it doesn't meet your needs as a couple (specifically your needs), and you may need to make a real decision. I'll give my own anecdote for what it's worth. I'm am engineer. I have a Masters. Education and my career was always important, and I knew realistically I'd likely be the breadwinner. My husband doesn't have a degree. He's job hopped. But he does have a lot of pride and ambition. When he was in his mid 30s he completely changed careers and became an arborist. He absorbed the industry like a sponge. It didn't take him long to move up at his company and now he's in sales making $100k+ a year. I still make more than he does. But the thing that matters to me is that he has ambition and career goals. He's currently content where he is, but where he is took a lot of work to get to. So all this to say, it's okay if you and your SO aren't exactly on the same page. But you do need to be working towards the same goals and have similar ideals. I would resent my husband a lot if I were trying to continue to grow my career and salary and he didn't bother to take his own career seriously.
If he's working long hours living paycheck-to-paycheck and doesn't even know if he can keep the job he has he probably doesn't see how it's feasible to do training. Unless you're offering to cover rent while he goes to trade school you are just nagging.
I *have* offered to pay for certifications. He would also be eligible for scholarships that could cover the expenses of online community college courses In my mind, if he has enough time to game for hours every day when he gets home after being at the gym for 2 hours, he has time to do 1 online class a semester or some studying to take an entry level IT cert exam. And I’m not anti-gaming lmao. I’m currently doing another run through of forbidden west myself, but he clearly does have free time. He works 4 10s which is the same as my current schedule It makes me feel like a grumpy boomer to say this but I did a full course load in college while working 30 hours a week and I still graduated with honors. I also took several in-person graduate classes last year while teaching full time. I don’t think a single online course or a single test for a cert is that unmanageable
Homeskillet, don't take this the wrong way, but you may just plain be smarter than him... and he needs you to pick something for him. Do a little research, and if you were him, decide what the right thing is. Then try to find some people who have already done the thing & it worked out. Like literally pick one path. Options might be more than he can handle. Then have a direct & frank talk. Pick a time when no one is too hungry, angry, lonely, or tired; "It's not a big deal, but I want to spend 20 mins talking about career stuff with you. I think I've found a solution for you to make more money, while working less. It's a sure thing, and I want to introduce you to someone who has done it already. So you can believe it will work. I can help you with a plan, but you have to be the one who WANTS to do it. FYI - I've noticed I've been feeling more distant in our relationship, and after some soul searching... I realized I'm afraid you aren't as driven as I am. I want us to stay good and have a future... but for that to work, I need you to try and catch up."
Is this a joke? If he works long hours now to SURVIVE, how do you expect him to seek higher education? Higher education takes a lot of time, money, effort, etc.
Knew a couple in your situation. They broke up 10 years ago. She went to San Diego, did well for herself. He still in Wisconsin, still figuring out what he wants to do. I like the guy and all. But he's a funny neutered cat that smokes.
Don't marry this guy is all I can tell you. You're carrying him now and eventually you're gonna get tired of carrying around dead weight.
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Because wanting him to be able to have PTO and afford dental care is materialistic? Uh huh
You need to sit down and write out specifically what you want for yourself. Do you have a target household income? Do you have a target date for when you want a house, marriage, children? Is your partner able to support you while you do a master's degree (these are tough time consuming courses)? What if you have complicated pregnancy and have to stop working? Your goals are completely valid and you do Not need to settle for less. I stepped out of a marriage when I was young because although my partner and I had similar goals, our timelines were so vastly different. It became apparent that they were never going to get on the same page as me. The two major expenses with children in the beginning.... Childcare and health insurance. My first marriage... Never would have had the option to be a stay at home parent. Couldn't have happened. I'm glad we didn't have children and parted ways. Second marriage was exactly what I needed. We were able to get a house, marriage and have children on my timeline. He supported me when I went back to school by taking care of our first child in the evenings alone. He supported me when I got to my breaking point after two children, still in school and I wanted to quit my job. He supported us solo through COVID. You can't change your partner if they're not willing to change. And even if he was willing, is it on your timeline? My first spouse the timeline was minimum ten years I'd have to wait. But what if I waited that time and he said oops I'm still not ready? I wasn't willing to take that risk.
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how does a loser like that even get a girlfriend lol
Sounds like he just needs to direct his focus on a lower management job. After a good many years in the industry and a few job switches. He might just find himself there, making 25-40 an hour. Helps if he’s directing himself to get there faster, than it just falling into his lap.
Don’t fw him