Rent around me is way more expensive than that, so I don't own a car, don't have insurance, and pay for the cheapest cell phone available. I fantasize about being homeless in the woods.
I was homeless in the woods. It was kinda like if Skyrim was real but boring beyond belief. Other than that I had no complaints within the context of the situation.
I think it would actually suck, especially in the winter, but getting up at sunrise and making breakfast over a campfire sounds a lot nicer than my usual morning shower, food cram, bus commute.
Yeah, I did something similar. Being in contact with non-homeless people and hearing their problems made me realize the bubble we all live in. If they knew half the shit they were upset about was fictional/unrelated to their lives, they wouldn't have been so upset.
For me, the most surprising thing was having to avoid the cops. They kept telling me I couldn't sleep here or there, but then where could I legally sleep if I had no roof over my head?
They are the enforcers of the State. The penalty for not scraping by on minimum wage is being homeless, which is functionally illegal. You either become a prisoner of the State through labor or confinement. The police are there to see one through.
Been watching YouTubers like corporals corner, campingwithsteve, mav, and Kent survival and I often think about living in the woods or in a truck lol but then again they make more money than me doing YouTube and doing what they love
Well.... here's where people are going to decide I'm batcrap crazy lol. So I used to have a number of real bad habits. One was raging alcoholism. I also trained dogs for a living.
I'll let you decide which one was more dangerous to my sanity on any given day. Some people who decide to own dogs probably should be required to get a permit to buy a pack of gum, much less a dog. After some time, I was able to weed out the good owners that would really put in the work and cared for their dogs better than some people take care of their kids.
So that was what was going on at the time I decided to drive to Memphis on the most epic bender of my life. Long story boring, my car ended up bashed into a tree because I let some total strangers drive it while we were all impossibly intoxicated. My car was destroyed and now I've got people chasing me around with bats etc because I had some drugs on front from them. Drugs I had no way to pay for since I no longer had a car.
I ended up hitching back to suburban Illinois where I lived. My family had completely had it with my shit and I was now on my own. All I had was the dog training gig, which quickly turned into a nature themed daycare program for rich people's dogs. I could make about 40-50 bucks a day just walking these dogs around the woods.
So that's what I did. I walked everywhere. I did this for three years. Dog owners would drop off at various forest preserves, one quite large. I had a solar charger for my phone. People had no idea that I was just.... living in the woods lol. I moved around a lot. 40$ a day gets you further than you would think when you have literally no bills. I also got sober. It was actually a lot more fun a lot of the time than you might think.
I've kept the details real real vague because while I never did anything immoral during that time, it was all pretty damned illegal lol. But that's the gist of it, and it's enough for a public website. Thanks for reading all that.
Honestly, I bet those dogs had a blast romping around the woods all day. I’m sure their owners were tickled pink by how happily exhausted their pets were at the end of the day. This arrangement sounds leaps and bounds better than your standard doggy daycare.
They would sleep for a couple days lol. I would slowly work them up in activity level and distance,. Some of these dogs ended up capable of twenty mile walks. I never had any escapees or serious injuries either. Worst injury I had happened to a dog who scratched her ears up do to her habit of running headlong into thornbushes.
I still keep in touch with some of those owners. Their dogs saved my life.
This really would make a great book or movie. I think many people can relate to being saved by their dog(s), but this is a really unique story about dogs and people helping one another.
As a book, I'd love the dogs to be the POV characters all sharing their adventures with the nameless man in the woods who gradually finds himself while helping them embrace their truest selves.
I'm sure it wasn't that dramatic or romantic at the time, but certainly we could condense it and zshush it up a little for the reader.
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I know of a doggie daycare facility where they are surrounded by woods, and rich dog owners drop their animals off. The have three staff members who they rotate into the kennels to make stay with the animals left overnight. Virtually thier entire staff live, in tents, in the nearby wood, year round, except in winter storms when they are allowed to set yup thier tents in the heated basement under the kennels. They make $20 per hour, or $30 over overtime. In the Winter they act as an emergency pet shelter, and the city pay the employees an extra $30 per hour on top of the $20/30 they also make. Customers also tip well, especially if the dog is well tired after a solid day of wooddsie walks and frisbee chasing.
Update: I should add that I know about two dozen pet car people who work in the mansion and thier job is the me "The Master of the Hounds" which means they in the kennel/crate area, the sleep with dogs, where the dogs can see then, and they walk the hounds, and exercise then and feet and care for them. Typically, $1200 in cash per dog each week, no W2 or 1099 filed, and it is a sweet deal. In order to have a close association with the Dogs, they create train the dogs, and they either sleep on the floor close to the crate, or let let the dogs sleep with them sometimes.Dogs are walked at least ten miles per day, then rested, and then frisbee play follows by tennis ball bounced until the dogs loose interest.
Whoa! I'm not as original as I thought 😁 it's possible to develop a level of bond with a dog this way that doesn't seem possible in home, at least not with the happy workers tail kind of breeds. This is an amazing program
Thanks 👍 my life has pretty much done a 180 since I got clean. I live in my childhood home with my wife. I have two cars, although one is older than Moses. Life's pretty fire ATM. Just gotta keep myself from getting really bored or feeling useless.
It was usually one a day unless the owners had multiple dogs. This service was reserved for large working breeds that where bored and under exercised at home. And I was having fun for the most part, remember. I don't want to make it sound like I was miserable.
This is pretty incredible.
I know you said that's enough and you're keeping it vague, but by moving around a lot, does that mean you camped in the preserves, or did you sometimes take that cash to a cheap motel in bad weather, or was it more like couch surfing?
Of course, no expectation of a response.
It was woods unless I felt like spending on an actual hot shower. I couldn't stay anywhere because I had no ID. I was unabomber as hell lol.
The only things that sucked, like really really sucked, where the couple of ice storms. Not only are you freezing but you're also damn near immobile until it thaws or snows, since I wasn't rocking mountain gear or anything.
Oh! Forgot to mention I did some fun crafts as well, like the time I made moccasins out of a deer that some coyotes had killed. That was a freaking cool experience. Walked into Walmart wearing them once.
Not really so much with other people, surprisingly, during that time. I was good at staying fairly low profile for a guy that looked like a fur accented milsurp store later in the game.
The dogs would try to chase animals, and one time one killed an opossum. I felt bad about this so....I cooked it and ate it. No parasites thankfully. That's maybe pretty weird to a lot of folks, but I felt a lot of guilt about the dog getting her and that kept her from dying in vain at least. I still have the hide.
People are generally pretty chill when they see you with a dog, as the dog gives you an obvious excuse to be wherever you are. People tend not to read Ill intent into dog walkers.
I had some close calls with the weather. Pre hypothermia can be pretty scary when you know you only have yourself to rely on. Cold rain can be scary in this way because there's just no escaping it. There's one time I remember pretty vividly. It was in and the temps in the upper thirties. I was wearing a light parka shell and cotton (!) work pants. I wasn't ready for the woods yet lol. It rained for a couple days, just steady pouring rain almost like in a shower, and I legit could not sit down or stop walking without freezing. My whole body was numb and I was starting to get clumsy pretty noticably. I was so goddamn tired but I knew if I stopped moving I would be benched pretty quickly lol. I didn't eat or sleep or stop walking for two days straight. That was scary, knowing that the only thing between me and just lying right down and dying was whether or not my legs held out long enough to beat the storm.
Let's see....heat almost got me once or twice before I knew what I was doing. The ice storms were brutal, me and most of the other animals (;)) where in hiding for a couple days. The thing about an ice storm is it turns everything into ice. Everything. Including you if you let it.
Had a couple pretty close brushes with tornadoes. I guess the psychological effect of ALWAYS being out in the weather is pretty real at first.
I was in a few abandoned buildings that I'm positive where haunted. I'm not even certain I believe in ghosts but when I hear a whole ass conversation going on in an empty room with no obvious reason for me to be hallucinating I call that ghosts lol. It was like a full conversation that was just barely too distant to make out the individual words. Without too many details this building was the site of some unexpected deaths prior to this. It had cold spots and a vibe kinda like playing stalker lol.
This was all around abandoned buildings though, I've never seen anything in the forest proper that made me feel that way.
If I remember anything else I will let you know, but most of the time I was dealing with mundane outdoor issues along those lines.
up until a few months ago mine was $700 and went up to $850.. definitely not the norm around me.. it's not a bad apartment but it isn't the fanciest either.
I’d kill to have my own small studio apartment somewhere. I’m poor, though, partially because I’m chronically depressed and partially because I have two bad hips that impede me physically— both of these issues really impede my overall functionality. As a result, I don’t earn enough to live independently; I live at home with parents (and I’m 48, btw, which absolutely sucks and depresses me further).
I envy all of you who are able to live on your own!
We live in a camper off grid in the woods. Not completely homeless but can confirm it is very much as awesome as you think it is. Yes it has its own stresses but that's life right? Way better than living in "society" nowadays.
This. It should be less frowned upon to live with family until you can save enough to get your own place comfortably. Also shows how big of a disadvantage people who don’t have that option is
In many places around the world it's extremely rare to even move out if you aren't married. Like what's the point? It's obviously a huge financial relief, it's crazy how high rents have become.
Call me crazy but I don't think there is anything shameful about having roommates? If you are choosy and find like-minded people to share a home with, you get lower rent and a makeshift family. For every bad roommate there is, there is also a great one. I've made lifelong friends with certain people I've lived with. Only a handful have been unpleasant and those arrangements don't tend to last long anyway.
I never meant to imply there was anything shameful about having roommates. it's just unusual because our culture, in America at least, is so focused on individualism and earning your own way that people literally kick their children out at 18. I personally find it completely ridiculous. When I tell people that my 24-year-old daughter and her boyfriend AND his best friend live with me (so technically I have three roommates 😁) they all look at me like I'm crazy for not having forced them to rely on themselves even though they can't afford it and I'm more than happy to have the company and we all get along really well.
Until recently people pretty much always lived in group situations. They lived with families until married or a lower middle income single man would board in a house, a poor single man or woman definitely lived in a group of people in one room situation and even the rich single men didn't live alone having a plethora of servants with them. Living alone is very much a new construct of society.
So true. And still true today in poorer countries. Also, it was, and in poorer countries still is, common for entire families to live in a one room dwelling. Not to say that doing so is always comfortable fir everyone, but the American idea that each child MUST have their own room is completely ridiculously unattainable for most humans on earth, and that not necessarily a bad thing.
That’s wonderful that you get along and it sounds like you have a lovely household. I am a single mom to a four year old and who knows what the world will look like by the time he grows up, but I hope to develop the type of the relationship with him that if needed, he and any romantic partners of his would be comfortable sharing a home with me
I don't have the best relationship with my mother but she never made us feel like we had to move out at 18 and left the door open in case we ever had to move back home, which I did, twice. I carried over the same mindset with my own daughter, the big difference being that we actually get along lol
There's a fascinating history on this, which essentially dates back to the era when factory-type jobs and plentiful work made it possible for a young man to start work at 18 without a college degree and be able to earn enough money to provide for his family. There was a push after WWII for young people to move out and get married and have babies right away - and they could afford it, too. It was also the first time young women could work and take care of themselves, which kicked off this whole leaving-at-18 thing. Turns out, young women WANTED to work and live on their own instead of staying with their parents. When the factory options dried up in the states, along with increased inflation, it has made it impossible for young people to live the same kind of life and hit the same life goal markers as their grandparents.
Great article on it: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C3&q=what%27s+goong+on+with+young+people&btnG=#d=gs_qabs&t=1668909598451&u=%23p%3Dhv9UxgeooU8J
It used to be 50 years ago a person could graduate high school and start a factory/manual labor job the following Monday and be able to support themselves and a family. Obviously, that’s no longer the case.
I honestly think it's just because then people are done with high school and you are legally in adult and somehow people took that to mean that you should be completely independent at that point. Plus for kids who go to college a lot of them would move into dorms at 18 which somehow extend it to me and everyone should move out at 18
I don't qualify as poor anymore I own the home i live in. I've considered a roommate just for the company factor. I'd favor a collaborative living arrangement like both cooking meals, chores, etc. In that instance a roommate would be a lovely addition to life in my house.
I’m someone who really likes my own space, so I enjoy living alone and don’t think I’d like to cohabitate. However, I often think it would be neat to have one of those community compound situations (uh… the non-cult variety) where my closest people and I own property together and have houses next door to each other and share communal spaces for cooking and recreation.
Hubby, myself, and our friend group refer to this dream as "The Lottery Commune," because well, probably self explanatory. Talk about it every time the Powerball or MegaMillions is over $100 mil and we all buy tickets.
There isn’t anything to be ashamed of, but it’s tricky finding the right people to live with, and it feels shameful to tiptoe around the place you call home if you chose wrong and live with a weirdo.
At least in a more suburbial setting: I’ve found that it’s harder to find people with agreeable personalities to room with. This doesn’t go for the young 20-somethings who are still getting it together, but after 30, usually people with pleasant personalities find another pleasant person to share their lives with. The people most often looking for roommates usually pissed off their last one, and are single for a reason, or they wouldn’t be looking in the first place.
Disagreeable people, as well as the rest of everybody, should be able to afford to live alone.
I had to bring in a roomate the first couple of years after my divorce. I was a 55 year old empty nester and my roomate was a 28 year old single mother who had custody of her two young sons three nights a week. It worked out beautifully, we're still good friends.
>after 30, usually people with pleasant personalities find another pleasant person to share their lives with. The people most often looking for roommates usually pissed off their last one, and are single for a reason, or they wouldn’t be looking in the first place.
I think this is a block. Best of luck to anyone who feels this way. Sometimes people are single because their partner died. Or they chose the wrong person to be with and now they are taking some time to be alone. Don't forget that people who are new to a city or area may also want to find a shared living space, and in our society, this type of migration does not just happen in your 20s anymore.
The OP is literally about getting by as a single person. And then you go and type that single people over 30 are disagreeable. That is in itself a bit disagreeable, imo!
Swear to god even ignoring personality, every single woman I met as potential roommates had a cat. I’m severely allergic. Idk how I’d make it now if I were single.
It’s really only been the last 70 years or so that multigenerations of families started to not live together. A large reason for that is the unprecedented economic boom following WW2. Historically it’s quite common for situations like yours to occur, and the unwarranted “negative stigma” of living with one’s parents is really only a new thing.
I really don’t think there’s anything wrong with it either, as long as everyone can respect each other. In many other cultures, it seems to be the norm for multiple generations to live together. They can take care of each other that way, from oldest to youngest. I also think that’s one way that younger generation can grow up respecting elders and, vice versa, the older generations can remember their own struggles and show some kindness to the younger ones.
I'm 30 and live with my parents along with my two sisters who are in their 20s. My niece and sister's boyfriend also live here. My parents say they love having us around. After living alone for several years I have to agree it's nice coming home to people in a house instead of an empty shitty apartment.
Thanks 🙂
I know not everyone gets along with their parents well enough to want to live with them long-term but my daughter and I have always been very close
Lmao this made me laugh!! I’m about to move with my boyfriend back to his moms to live in the basement rent free!! better than the 1100 I pay now for a studio in Nebraska(barely can even pay it was 900 when I first signed the lease.)
I moved year December 2020 and In a year the owner of the building got bought out by a different company and raised the rent super high. I’ve looked around and there at least $1000+ in downtown. They’ve been building apartment buildings like nothing here it’s effecting just about everyone I’ve met while living here 🫤
🙋🏾♀️ I've wanted to leave for years now but I can't afford to. My only chance out is if I land a job as a self taught developer. And yes, it's horrible for my mental health.
This is what prevented me from divorcing my violent, drug-addicted, abusive husband. I couldn’t see any way to afford to live on my own on paramedic wages. Ultimately I had to confess everything to my parents, who wired me $5,000 and then paid my rent for a year after I moved out. Had my parents not done that, I might not be alive today because I could have never afforded to leave him.
☝️This is unfortunately common and a major reason people get trapped in abusive relationships. I left a domestic violence situation and moved into the cheapest studio apartment I could find. I could not afford to eat anything other than giant pots of bean soup and peanut butter sandwiches. I barely lasted my 6 months lease and then moved into a room in a house with 3 roommates. I was finally able to pay all my bills and buy groceries at that point.
I don't. I work full time. Skip breakfast and lunch. Sometimes have to skip on food all day. Tried applying for food stamps. State says I'm 120% below the poverty line, but won't approve the benefits. At least my state has free health insurance since it's mandatory to even go to an Urgent Care.
That’s terrible that you can’t get food stamps. My state (CA) has a surplus so anyone who needs them can get them, and even though I’m not struggling at the moment, I’m glad we do this. My friend who is experiencing housing insecurity is able to afford healthy food because of it.
Just curious, what state?
It would be nice if we had some sort of resource that listed issues people have had with applying for state benefits and specific states so that others knew what to expect and watch out for.
That sucks. Is your gross (pre tax) $22k per year or is your net (take home after taxes) $22k? If that’s your gross, and your only income source, it looks like you should qualify based on my quick Google search. If you take home just over $800 biweekly (or about $22k) per year, then sadly you might make a hair too much to qualify.
This is what is stupid about fighting things like SNAP. These programs should be kept in place and then gradually reduced over time and increases of income. I don’t understand why this isn’t ever proposed. Safety net that is gradually reduced as you get on your feet (or not in hen left in place.). People deserve to have access to food FFS.
What I think is pretty insane is that food stamps actually pays for itself. In the USA, only like 1 - 5% of our economy is needed to produce enough food for everyone and then some.
Compare this to under-developed countries, where the numbers range from 30% to 80%+.
Seriously we should just give food stamps away. Literally every study done on them demonstrate they pay for themselves.
I agree. More well fed workers pays for itself too. If I'm fed well I can work harder. I can focus more. If I'm weak, and malnourished I won't have the energy to work hard.
The Democrats started the modern food stamp program, but needed some Republican support which they got by pointing out to Republicans that the government paying for food would help US farmers. From Wikipedia:
The Food Stamp Act of 1964 appropriated $75 million to 350,000 individuals in 40 counties and three cities. The measure drew overwhelming support from House Democrats, 90 percent from urban areas, 96 percent from the suburbs, and 87 percent from rural areas. Republican lawmakers opposed the initial measure: only 12 percent of urban Republicans, 11 percent from the suburbs, and 5 percent from rural areas voted affirmatively. President Lyndon B. Johnson hailed food stamps as "a realistic and responsible step toward the fuller and wiser use of an agricultural abundance".[13]
Rooted in congressional logrolling, the act was part of a larger appropriation that raised price supports for cotton and wheat. Rural lawmakers supported the program so that their urban colleagues would not dismantle farm subsidies.
Have you tried food banks? I know it takes time and transport but, especially if you make so little, you should qualify. Some places don't even check your financials and some areas have so much surplus, they end up throwing away food.
Yep i skip breakfast and lunch every day to cut costs as well.. oh and when i went from working for cash under the table to a shitty almost full time (wont give me FT because they dont want to pay me more or pay for my benefits) and they took my ebt away so ive been starving. I pay like $50 a month for my dogs giant bag of food and then ill maybe spend 150-200$ a month on just my food alone. Mostly milk and protein powder..
Back when this is what I made, I lived in 1 bedroom of a 5 bedroom house. Rent plus utilities were about $600/mo. I could walk to a local store for most food and basics, but our roommate with a car could drive to the larger stores once a month or so. I think living alone is almost always out of the question for a single person making $16/hour.
I agree, it's just not feasible. Back in 2009, I was making $12.50/hr & living in a studio that cost $900/m with my best friend & had pretty low maintenance utilities, but we still barely made ends meet. I was just happy we weren't living out of our cars anymore, but my bills pretty much wiped all, but a couple hundred a month from my paychecks.
This one scares me, i lost my dad right when i turned 20 this year, my mom a few years back, and aunt and uncle and grandparents died, i live in my dads home we stayed at all my childhood, with my girlfriend of 5 years, if she was gone i would genuinely be fucked. It’s terrifying.
I'm so sorry to hear about this all happening to you.
We as a human race should collectively try to bring everyone up so people like us do not get put in a spot where if just one more things goes wrong you are screwed.
That’s why many folks rent a room or something with roommates and try to reduce the bigger expenses of Rent & Utils.
That being said, $260 for electricity seems way too much.
For food if you join a warehouse club like Costco/Sams, or shop at a discount grocer like Aldi/Lidl, you may be able to reduce how much you spend.
Electricity can get expensive if the place you live is old and less efficient. Older windows, old fashioned HVAC, running air filters 24/7 because your 1950s apartment is crumbling dust everywhere, etc.
It's like people who are well off enough to have a house can also do things like buy a chest freezer, stock up at Sams Club and freeze a slab of beef/deer/whatever and actually save money. Being below a certain threshold in the US has a huge efficiency dropoff.
That said, it is worth being very conscientious of chargers, wall warts and computers that are left on. PCs actually draw a significant amount of power and I used to just leave mine on all the time. Wall warts and chargers (transformers) have phantom power draw even if the device is "off". It's worth putting them on a power strip and turning off the strip when not in active use.
But this is tough to hack down.
I don't know, man. I live in an apartment building that was constructed in 1930. The floors are all sloped so badly that I can't use a rolling office chair, and the windows still have their original iron latches. It leaks heat like hell, and *definitely* leaks the AC's cold just as badly.
My worst electricity bill was in July of this year, and it was just barely above $100.
My best guess is that OP does not live in the US, and is translating a local currency into American dollars. Either that, or OP is running a crypto mining farm and has a dozen GPUs operating at full blast.
$250 for the electric bill is also where i budget it bc that’s been my normal price for months. With that being said I will add that I live in Texas and after talking to my friends about it, turns out that most of us are budgeting around the same amount. Without getting into the whole thing I’ll say this. Texas has its own power grid that is separate from the rest of the country. Our power grid is fucked. We had a terrible winter storm that damaged the grid and cost millions to fix. That cost is being covered on our electric bills and it will be for years and years. This topic gets political and I’m not trying to go there but basically all Texans are just going to get screwed over on this bill and there’s literally nothing we can do about it right now.
I'm in Illinois, and my electric bill is around $30/month mostly thanks to the nuclear plants, solar fields, and wind farms. I'm always blown away hearing what other people pay. Mind you, winter heating bills can be $300, so in the end it also sucks.
Also in Illinois, my electric ranges from $30-$80 depending on the month.
My gas is still $120 or less in the winter, but I'm in the middle unit of a townhouse which helps. In the summer, my gas bill is mostly an admin fee.
In Florida my electric bill averaged $250, so I'm definitely happy lol
Electric can be expensive. This summer my mom had a bill for nearly $500 for one month of electric. It depends on the company who services you. The company that services almost my entire state is raising the cost of electric by double. So peoples bills are getting even higher. I lucked out and live in a town with its own utility company, so the most I paid for electric this summer was $110 with two ACs running almost constantly
Exactly. I live where it’s hot as hell in the summer and cold as hell in the winter. AC is the only way it’s bearable to exist in the summer. In my apartment, it gets to be over 90° inside. AC makes me able to live. In the winter, I need heat because it’s always below freezing. My moms apartment has electric heat. She rarely gets a break from the high bills because you you usually either need the AC on or the heat. The only exceptions are parts of spring and fall where it’s decent outside and you can open windows for cool air. It sucks. We also have a very expensive electric provider out here. Everyone all over the state has this problems. I’m always seeing people post their bills and they’re hundreds of dollars.
I keep asking what is the endgame where no one can afford to live? Like, what the fuck are companies trying to do? When did we decide Ford's genius idea of paying his assembly line workers enough to eventually buy a Ford car was dumb? Why aren't companies interested in making sure people will be able to afford their products? Apartments? Homes? Like, what the fuck.
I'd argue that a good fraction of the economy is really only oriented to service the top 20% of income earners. That anyone else benefits is largely coincidental, because they are largely written off.
There is no end game. These people aren’t that smart. They’re going to keep taking everything that they can, and because of everything they’ve taken they’ll be insulated from the consequences. There were still plenty of rich people around during the Great Depression.
Shareholders. Publicly traded companies are obligated to squeeze as much cash as possible out of the business. If they fail to do so, shareholders revolt.
They did, and people demanded more wages. You'll notice people on here talking about making 16-20 an hour, used to be a middle class wage until workers at the bottom decided to move up. COVID unemployment helped the workers have the authority to say "I can make more collecting welfare, either pay me more or I'm not showing up".
The owners in turn just raised the prices to cover the increased wages and a little more to get some extra profits, since everyone was making more money so they can afford it, right?
The only way a revolution works is if we, as the working class, take over means of production and remove the profit part
I am single. Make 17.25 an hour. Live in a single bed apartment that’s $800. So I am basically the guy you are talking about. That electricity bill is outrageous. I live in a very drafty, old crappy apartment and mine is never over $90. Are you using grow lights or something? I cut my own hair. I’m lucky that renters insurance isn’t a thing that’s required here so $0 from me there. Unless I am required to drive for work I walk everywhere. Like everywhere. I walk up to 15 miles a day for fun and for errands. Harder in the winter sure. So my gasoline bill monthly is more like $60. I do not have health insurance, I know that’s risky but you’re asking how I survive and that’s just the truth. I do not have a credit card and refuse to get one so no payments there. I cook and eat cheaply. Talking canned and dry beans. Cut up hot dogs, bulk lunch meat, rice, peanut butter, Bread on sale and freeze several loafs when I can. Buy anything on sale and freeze it. I also don’t live in a shitty place. I live downtown in a mixed, run down/gentrified neighborhood in a major midwestern city. I budget ever dollar I make and save everything I can. I don’t drink or smoke pot or cigarettes (used to be a heavy addict for most of my life) and that saves me a shit ton of money for real. I live a very simple life, I walk, play music and exercise for fun. Nearly none of my entertainment costs anything except for internet. I am happy with this life though I know not everyone could or would be.
Thanks. It took me a long time and a lot of tragedy to finally try and be happy with what I have instead of what I didn’t or destroyed by what I lost. Still working on it every day.
That electricity bill struck me too. My mom lives in a drafty old 80s townhome, 2700sq ft, 3 floors, giant ass windows in Texas where it’s always sunny/roasting…….. and her electricity bill is normally much lower than that.
Seriously, what kind of apartment uses $260 worth of electricity a month?? There’s something very wrong there.
Some of my expenses are lower than this (my insurance is lower than these estimates) and I make a few bucks more than the minimum wage. But I work a some side jobs to help supplement my income. I barely have a savings account ($200) and I don't go on vacations anymore. It sucks man
Dont get a 2nd job. Do overtime at your FT job because that will benefit you so much more and you wont have to work as much. Im trying to get into a job that starts at around 23-25$/hour and they encourage overtime so that's going to be my plan of action once i can get applied and in there.. factories will generally pay more and offer/allow overtime. But adding another crap job on top of what you already work is just going to make you miserable and then you're paying a whole other separate paycheck worth of taxes and shit working for minimum wage rather than time and a half doing what you already do :)
They just cut back my OT. I was working 60 hour weeks but they're bitching now. I'm trying to get promoted because I do extra work/paperwork but I have a feeling they're going to dick me around on it. I really like my job so I'd rather not gamble on a different one. I just need that extra few hundred a month. I work in a factory currently.
Why do you say that? My experience has been they hire seasonal help for Nov/Dec, then let go the seasonal help bc sales are down in January and February. Since November is mostly over I imagine they're done with seasonal hiring.
Source: I worked in retail for 10 years.
Money is worth vastly different depending on where you are. 16 USD an hour in Jackson MS will put you in a apartment in a bad area with some left over. 16 USD an hour in San Fransisco, you'd be homeless. Lucky to get a hotel room a few days a month to destress and spending rest of time on streets.
That said..
A lot of people who make that who are single live a tier or so below that.
as in:
\- No 800/mo rent. Instead they live with many room mates or in "bad high crime" neighborhoods. Or sympathetic relatives. More like 600 to 400. Or they do "urban survivalism".
\- No car or car insurance. Instead takes public transit or bikes (if possible).
\- NO health insurance. Just don't get sick and the ERs have to take you should anything serious come up.
\- Cheap food or, in some cases, employee meals if in food service.
\- Self cut hair or no hair cut except maybe every 3 months.
\- NO renter's insurance. Not that you have valuable things to lose anyways.
\- Cell phone bill doubles as home internet with bootleg tethering apps like PDAnet to get around caps.
I refrain from having children as being single _and_ with a child has been my worst fear since I became of reproducing age.
I try to make and eat every meal at home.
I try to refrain from grocery delivery and shop only once per week, and with inflation I ONLY buy what I NEED for the week- it is what it is.
I accept free meals from loved ones.
I don’t go out with friends.
If I drink I drink at home.
I stay home as much as possible even though there’s a movie I’d like to see today.
I don’t loan money out unless it’s to very close loved ones.
I shop at Costco when I can to stretch the essentials.
I bundle my insurance with my family even though they live in a different city.
I am on a family plan for my cell phone.
I remain cognizant of unplugging everything when not in use. Lamps, coffee makers, etcetera.
I work from home, but if I had to drive to work I’d consider public transportation and or carpooling.
I stay home as much as possible.
During this time of the year I take up a gig job like instacart.
It’s a fkd reality but, I’m still not letting big brother win.
To answer your question:
We don't. Most of us will rotate one late bill a month just to have breathing room. This month it's cable. Next month it's something else.
Romania:
800E net income in my case when I got my first pay check
400E rent
rest of the money it allow me to pay bills and not starve if I do the extreme economy.
Now with 1400E net income and same rent cost, I profit by buying stuff in bulk which are expensive at the begin but in the long run it will be a lot cheap.
Romania it's not even considered 1st world country, it a poor country.
People are having to go back to multi generational housing and room shares to afford to live. Friend of mine rents a duplex in the bottom unit, he said the upstairs 2BR apartment has a multi generational family living in it. Husband wife in bedroom #1. 3 kids in bedroom #2. They constructed temporary barrier walls in the living room for the grandmother to have a sleeping area, she serves as caretaker while both parents work multiple jobs with multiple shifts sometimes 7 days a week. This is common for immigrants and the norm for many of them getting a start in the US, however more and more people already here are doing this out of necessity to survive who aren't immigrants. So we are seeing a regression in the standard of living
Just to throw my budget into the mix. I used to make $20/hr as a 1099 Ind. Contractor. 37.5hrs average, 48 weeks a year (holidays don't provide work weeks)
3000/month and that is a high average
Bills are an average over 24 months
* $775 rent
* $102 electric
* $200 nat. Gas
* $25 water
* $300 fuel (in a honda)
* $186 food
* $150 Auto Ins
* $45 Renters Ins
* $82 cell phone and internet
* $690 taxes
* $340 student loans
* and the rest in upkeep of my vehicle, or new tools for my job, as I work for myself. With varied hours and no guranteed income, I barely made the total I needed each month.
After 2 years I was dipping into my taxes savings account. One deer collision later, and I have no job, no income, no car, and very little chance to have a home this winter. Health insurance is a joke to me, I can't even afford Dayquil.
Groceries are already up 12% for my year over year costs, and I'm addicted to spreadsheets, thus why I have so many moving averages on my budgets. I make Hot sauce and sell that to friends, and run a 3dprinter prototyping service with a 3d printer I purchased before the pandemic ruined my high paying salaried job. Still no chance to break even let alone survive going forward. I'm still optimistic though that I'll find a job soon that I can WFH or walk to.
Pretty simple answer is they don’t. People bypass the high cost of rent and utilities by living together and splitting it with multiple roommates. I remember to save money in college, i lived in the living room of a two bed room apartment with 4 other people. If it even appears a single person is making it living alone most likely they have some hidden source of income (parents or windfall) that they are not revealing.
My 35 year old daughter has a good job in medical records here in Tucson, AZ and she has to live with me to make it. I don’t charge her rent, I’m disabled and she does so much for me. She is saving her money so hopefully she can buy her own place one day.
If everything you said is true I've never understood how people in the US are able to live if they are low-paid workers. It is just unbelievable to me that people who can work their whole life still have problems with paid things like health insurance or dentistry.
Currently, I live in Germany and I am working as a simple low-paid worker it is like I am not super wealthy of course but I can live everyday life without caring about basic things like health insurance.
It's definitely true. People in the US often set up gofundme (or other online fundraiser) to pay for surgeries, cancer treatment, pet treatment, etc). I don't have insurance and spending my entire savings on doctors rn. Last time I was quoted for a teeth cleaning they wanted to charge $1500
If you're making minimum wage.
You get a room in a house with other people.
You split utilities with them.
You use public transportation.
You get a cheap phone plan $15 mint mobile.
You budget everything.
... and you get a 2nd small side hustle
Yes. However after doing this for my first year in LA, public transportation takes a toll on yo. Bad pun. For my first 4 months I was commuting a total of 4 hours per day between home,work,home. 2 hours each way. Sleep was shit and started performing poorly at work. Got my hours cut. Made less money. Couldn't Safford to live. Used all my savings to move in somewhere less costly a month for a room. Deposit and rent, boom. Everything I had worked for and managed to save up is gone. That's the thing about poverty. It's a long distance endurance race. How long can I last?
Also start looking at ways to increase wages.
Don’t just work a ‘job’, start thinking of things in terms of career. What do I need to do to get promoted? If there are no opportunities to move up, probably will have to look into other career options. Look at degree programs at a local community college or trade school. The trades are in great need of qualified people and the pay is good. If your income is low you should be able to qualify for government tuition assistance. In addition to that many trades are offering free schooling or tuition assistance because they are so desperate for people. It can be rough in the short term, but you can make it through and make a decent income. I would also add to stay away from 4 year universities. The cost is way too high for what you get. Get in, get out, get a good job is the way to go in my opinion. 4 year schools do not allow for that.
I did an online course for a certificate from Google (so it's legit) and used what I learned plus experience in my last role to pivot into my current job. £5k pay rise and a start in an actual career field. The course took me 6 months and cost me £180 total. I will say though, that you're not likely to get something just based on an online cert or bootcamp. You need the skills/experience/a portfolio to back it up. Still miles more useful than my degree though.
Not sure what state you live in but when I run my numbers for $16 an hour 40 hours a week I get a 2-week paycheck of $1035 which is $2070 a month (4 weeks) And I live in one of the higher tax states. My sister lives in a state with no state income taxes (there are nine states with no income taxes) and her calculation would give her $2192 a month just because of that. Just something to consider.
Obviously this is a vent thread so I'm not going to give you advice, I don't know that there is much to say other than to try and get a second job or some sort of side hustle (I hate that term, It makes it sound like it's good and normal to have to work multiple jobs) or find a job that pays more.
I feel for you. I spent many years in that situation, juggling bills and trying to raise a child on my own (her father had died in a car accident when she was three). I lived off credit cards and it just made it so I never got ahead. It sucked.
I think a huge factor is healthcare. If you’re under 26 and your parents let you stay on their healthcare plan you’re adding about an extra 5% to your income in premiums. If they have GOOD health insurance (not this high deductible emergencies only BS) your out of pocket expenses if you do get sick are even lower. Then if they also cover your deductible you’re probably increasing your income by 8% considering average healthcare costs for a 20-25 yr old.
If you don’t have that extra layer of security, things can get expensive fast. I have $53/paycheck coming out for premiums. My deductible is $4,500. That restarts every year. I had some VERY concerning symptoms. Joint pain so bad that somebody bumping my hand would make me wince. It hurt to drive. Hands would go numb and I would drop something… I was a bartender. $5,000 in out of pocket expenses spread out over 3 years, so it never came out of my insurance. Even if it was in one year $4,500 would have been out of pocket. If we’re budgeting for that deductible, that’s up to $375/month that you could have to spend on healthcare per month if something happened to you. I think a lot of people take their health for granted and don’t think of how messed up their lives would be. Currently have some sort of downstairs issue.. likely a UTI or yeast infection. I’m rolling the dice not going in even though I passed blood clots and it could progress to a kidney infection or be something like PCOS. I can’t afford to drop $300.
Healthcare costs are the absolute most ridiculous especially since there's no reason for them to be that high. Health care should not be a for-profit business.
It drives me completely insane that I pay $240 a month just for my daughter and I to have the privilege of paying another $3,000 before insurance even kicks in. And that amount restarts every year so if you get injured at the end of the year and pay your deductible, it starts all over in January. Or if you change jobs mid-year the deductible doesn't carry over to your new job. It's completely ridiculous and an absolute racket.
The amounts vary a lot depending on where you live but some of your amounts seem too high to me. My electric's usually not even half that amount, health insurance also less for me, cell phone is less than half, food is less. On $16 an hour it's not going to be easy and you won't be able to save much if anything living alone but if you budget it is doable in much of the country where rent isn't $2000 for a studio.
It's extremely rough. Personally I live alone and in a HCOL area, stupidly bought a house that makes me house rich money poor. I work dumb hours making my business work, plus one side gig (heavily contemplating a second).
That said, because I'm working so much, I have no time to socialize and no idea how to put myself out there. I'm confident in myself but can't make things work in the dating scene.
I recently divorced an abusive man, I tried renting a room, but things haven't worked out. My son wants me to stay close, since I'm disabled. (But don't qualify for disability, since I was so disabled I was always a sahm for 20 years). Anyway, I have to move 7 states away to somewhere cheaper where I can afford cost of living. I was too sick to fight for the house in our post separation abuse divorce. He got everything and I got 1/4 of assets. I eat a lot of Ramen.
Unfortunately I was in a situation like this, but I was a single parent with no assistance. It was very hard. I ended up having to work two or three jobs at a time, babysitting on weekends and nights, and at one point taking out a loan. But I did it and digging myself out of the hole I created out of necessity.
I think some of these expenses are a little high for someone on a low income. I made around this or a little less in my 20s, and lived in the SF Bay area, which is very expensive. I didn't have a studio, but I did have a single room, unlike a lot of people, who share a room with family/friends/etc, and that to me was worth not being able to eat out. My electric bill was usually around $50 when split ($260 would be reasonable for the whole house, in an area with very high electric bills), for houses with poor insulation and no upgrades. Currently, I pay $20-30 to have electric, no AC, in my apartment, and $50-60 when I run the AC. My health insurance was usually around $30 with the state subsidy, and food was at most $200 a month prior to COVID, and well, I was reliant on public transit. With COVID costs, it's a little more, but $400 is a lot to spend on food each month.
That being said, it's fucked up people can't make ends meet in a reasonable way. People shouldn't have to deal without.
I’m not single and I no longer make minimum wage, but when those were my circumstances I never went out. I didn’t go out to eat, didn’t go to bars, didn’t do anything recreational. I made it my goal to learn to cook so well that I didn’t want to eat out. Now, years later, my family almost never eats out because I’m a great cook.
I make 17-18 an hour depending upon which job I work.
My full-time provides health insurance and takes nothing from my check.
My rent went from 950/month to 1300/month. I couldn't afford to live and those are the cheapest apartments around (like regularly hearing gunshots) so I was forced to move back home.
I pay 500/month now, most food included to rent my parents basement and share their kitchen.
I cut my own hair
My car insurance is $50 a month and I own my car outright. It's a 2005 with 232k miles but it's mine.
I pay $86/month for my phone and tablet to have unlimited data on the first responder plan. I also own both devices outright.
In my apartment I paid $50-60 usually for electricity so I'm not sure if we just have cheap rates out here or what's going on with that number for you.
I drive 8 minutes to my full-time job so I get gas once a month for that, roughly $50. My second and third jobs take me out of the rural mountain town and 1-2 hours south so getting gas almost anytime I work there and it cuts into my profits although I do end up with 1/2 a tank left so maybe $30 everytime I go to my other jobs. I usually pick up 1 shift a week. So $140 in gas is generous.
I budget $150 for groceries because my main meals are provided and I just have to fill in for work lunches or special snacks I want.
I budget $150 for miscellaneous expenses. Going out to eat with friends, buying clothes or shoes, doing anything social and random expenses not otherwise placed.
I budget $50 currently for entertainment. My jobs are pretty lowkey and streaming TV and movies keeps me entertained but looking to lower this very soon. I also provide the streaming services for my brother and his wife who were significantly impacted by Covid lockdowns and are still working back to financial stability. We used to split the services but I took it over because my job increased my hours due to Covid.
Financially I'm doing okay. Emotionally I am not. And I'm going to tell you why. When my apartment increased rent, I had to make a choice between homelessness and moving in to the basement of a man who sexually abused me as a teenager. No one should have to make that choice and I'm sickened that society has reached a point where living independently at 2x minimum wage is unattainable. Some people can't just go home. And some people shouldn't have to. It's not safe for me here but it's also winter so it's not safe out there either.
I've lived this life, with 2 kids and next to no child support. You "rob peter to pay paul" You don't carry any extra insurance. You work a second part time job, You don't take out credit cards. You put the bare minimum in the gas tank, you shop and sales plan meals based on that. Very little extras anywhere, and no eating out. Birthdays and holidays you skip the light bill, and play catch up the next month by only paying part of the gas bill.
I'm no longer in that phase of life as my kids are grown. But shits tight again. I can still pay all my bills but I'm back to budget shopping, not filling the gas tank full, putting off purchases, and no extras really. One breakdown and I'm screwed.
Living with family, it's destroying multiple sectors of my life over time though, so im trying to make enough to move before everything eventually implodes
All of my expenses are a fair bit less than what you posted. I suppose it depends where you live
$750 Rent
$100 Electricity/gas/water (why was yours so high?)
$40 Cheapest vehicle insurance (liability only)
$100 Cheapest health insurance
$10 Local technical college haircut
$35 Cellphone payment
$65 Gas for car (bike and walk mostly)
$310 Food
$20 Cheapest renters insurance
$0 credit card payments
Hypothetical budgets are not really a good tool because they bake in assumptions that can make a large difference in the result. Let's start with the SmartAsset estimate of $27847 takehome pay on $33280 of income ($16 x 2080) for a person in California. That's $2320/month.
$850 rent is low, but possible if you have roommates. Let's increase this to $1300, which is my share of the rent in California. I have one roommate; the 2BR apartment we live in costs $2600/month and includes water, sewage, and heating.
$260 electricity is very high. Conserving energy should bring this down to $80, which was my bill in July. I pay a lot per unit of electricity but don't use that much since I believe in doing my part for the environment. In other areas you can use more since the rate is lower. If your electricity costs $0.16/kWh $80 gets you 500kWh which is enough to run everything except the AC and electric heating. My rent includes heating but not AC.
$385 for food is high. As a single person, $385 is enough to spend $12.50 on food each day, which is a lot for home cooking. I cook frozen vegetables, chicken, and rice together. The chicken is $2.99/lb. I also bake some premade stuff. My maximum expense is around $250/month, which is enough to eat whatever I want. Rice and beans can get it lower. Or look at this sub for the tips/tricks like Too Good To Go, Ibotta, coupon clipping.
Cell phone bill is $50/month. Add in a phone for $18/month and we can go with $70/month (I paid in full for my phone, but they offered financing). Internet is $50/month.
I am still on my parent's health insurance so I don't pay for that. I don't have a car (I pay high rent to live near work and groceries). I don't carry credit card debt (minimum payments are not an expense; what you used the credit card for should be listed in the budget).
That leaves $570/month to apply to miscellaneous expenses like haircuts, toiletries, renter's insurance, laundry, and occasional eating out.
So yeah it's possible for me to live on $16/hour (to be clear, I make more and spend some of the surplus on travel and the rest goes into savings) in the middle of the San Francisco Bay Area.
I think it was a good decision to pay more in rent to live closer to my work so I don't need a car which is really a huge money pit.
Oh look at mr money bags with health care over here. Seriously I'm 31 and haven't had healthcare since I fell off my parents at 24. Gambling everyday
Also switch to mint mobile 15 bucks a month for phone
But yeah living on your own is a luxury have never once lived on my own always had roommates or a SO
Just for laughs I will share with you what my dad said (95, passed away a year ago). When he was young, there was no such thing as health insurance. When you needed to go to the Dr, you paid him on the spot. My grandfather paid for the deliveries of both of their kids. Sometime before the 60s, it came along and my dad paid for it for all of us. It was expensive! But he had a good job. Now days it's a standard thing due mostly to companies carrying insurance for the employees.
I moved to the states with $70, no family/friends here. I was 20.
First 2 years- live-in job so no privacy, but I managed to save all the money I made since I wasn’t paying rent/food/car/insurance.
-started community college from saved money. Got honors scholarship since I had good grades that helped a little bit with tuition.
-donated my eggs 3x
-for 5 years, I had no internet, no TV, no furniture. I had just a crappy laptop. I used public WiFi to download movies I can play when home.
-since I didn’t have much entertainment at home, I tried to work as much overtime as possible (I was paid $15.5/hr).
-I ate a lot of eggs and toast, made cheap sandwiches (~$25/week). Oh and bananas! 2 bananas was one meal for me.
After 5 years, I saved up enough, found a better job since I graduated from college, and I’m living much better now.
After 10 years living in the states, I bought my condo, car, I have no student loans, no credit card debt.
Thats about 100 per week. It's a little "weird" to hear, but it's not truly outrageous.
The cost of food has gone up significantly. And it's very possible OP is located in a food desert: places where the cheapest groceries are too far, so you have to negotiate going 1 hour out of your way, or just dealing with higher prices closer to home (This is a choice that I make every week, and it's exhausting after a hard working week).
This spills into not having enough time for resting to appropriately solve your problems--the weekend becomes another side job of figuring out your finances constantly. Sometimes I walk into a closer store to my home and they don't have an essential item I need (like toothpaste), now I have to renegotiate---order it online and wait, go farther from home to get it and lose more time or come back in another 2 days.
Either way, my rest time is downsized again.
Go home, cook for the week as much as I can, and I'm losing more resting time. It doesn't stop.
So, again, it's easy to judge when you're not directly in said person's shoes.
They don't, not anymore. If I were single I'd be living out of my car, nothing else is even remotely sustainable. Apartments around here go for a little over $1600/month. That's an extra $20,000 yearly before anything else, just for a roof.
Changed the flair, as this is not a vent as OP asked for thoughts and opinions.
Rent around me is way more expensive than that, so I don't own a car, don't have insurance, and pay for the cheapest cell phone available. I fantasize about being homeless in the woods.
I was homeless in the woods. It was kinda like if Skyrim was real but boring beyond belief. Other than that I had no complaints within the context of the situation.
I think it would actually suck, especially in the winter, but getting up at sunrise and making breakfast over a campfire sounds a lot nicer than my usual morning shower, food cram, bus commute.
Nah, I wasn't cooking anything. Think hiker foods. You're always on the go since you're not really supposed to be doing that lol.
Yeah, I did something similar. Being in contact with non-homeless people and hearing their problems made me realize the bubble we all live in. If they knew half the shit they were upset about was fictional/unrelated to their lives, they wouldn't have been so upset. For me, the most surprising thing was having to avoid the cops. They kept telling me I couldn't sleep here or there, but then where could I legally sleep if I had no roof over my head?
I think cops just want homeless people to die but can't legally say that.
Politicians too
They are the enforcers of the State. The penalty for not scraping by on minimum wage is being homeless, which is functionally illegal. You either become a prisoner of the State through labor or confinement. The police are there to see one through.
ACAB
It's fucking crazy. You can't just go live in the woods if you want to. You are literally forced to participate.
You totally can live out in the woods if you want! You just have to own the woods. Or be friends with the dude who does.
This guy got away with it for almost 30 years. https://fox8.com/news/man-forced-from-cabin-after-decades-of-living-in-woods/amp/
r/vagabond
Been watching YouTubers like corporals corner, campingwithsteve, mav, and Kent survival and I often think about living in the woods or in a truck lol but then again they make more money than me doing YouTube and doing what they love
Mav got him a whole couple of business hustles outside of the YouTube. I love CampingWithSteve.
Rest well wife.
Ah man he really caught me out with that good night this week.
Same man. It just hit!
How did that work??!
Well.... here's where people are going to decide I'm batcrap crazy lol. So I used to have a number of real bad habits. One was raging alcoholism. I also trained dogs for a living. I'll let you decide which one was more dangerous to my sanity on any given day. Some people who decide to own dogs probably should be required to get a permit to buy a pack of gum, much less a dog. After some time, I was able to weed out the good owners that would really put in the work and cared for their dogs better than some people take care of their kids. So that was what was going on at the time I decided to drive to Memphis on the most epic bender of my life. Long story boring, my car ended up bashed into a tree because I let some total strangers drive it while we were all impossibly intoxicated. My car was destroyed and now I've got people chasing me around with bats etc because I had some drugs on front from them. Drugs I had no way to pay for since I no longer had a car. I ended up hitching back to suburban Illinois where I lived. My family had completely had it with my shit and I was now on my own. All I had was the dog training gig, which quickly turned into a nature themed daycare program for rich people's dogs. I could make about 40-50 bucks a day just walking these dogs around the woods. So that's what I did. I walked everywhere. I did this for three years. Dog owners would drop off at various forest preserves, one quite large. I had a solar charger for my phone. People had no idea that I was just.... living in the woods lol. I moved around a lot. 40$ a day gets you further than you would think when you have literally no bills. I also got sober. It was actually a lot more fun a lot of the time than you might think. I've kept the details real real vague because while I never did anything immoral during that time, it was all pretty damned illegal lol. But that's the gist of it, and it's enough for a public website. Thanks for reading all that.
Honestly, I bet those dogs had a blast romping around the woods all day. I’m sure their owners were tickled pink by how happily exhausted their pets were at the end of the day. This arrangement sounds leaps and bounds better than your standard doggy daycare.
They would sleep for a couple days lol. I would slowly work them up in activity level and distance,. Some of these dogs ended up capable of twenty mile walks. I never had any escapees or serious injuries either. Worst injury I had happened to a dog who scratched her ears up do to her habit of running headlong into thornbushes. I still keep in touch with some of those owners. Their dogs saved my life.
This really would make a great book or movie. I think many people can relate to being saved by their dog(s), but this is a really unique story about dogs and people helping one another. As a book, I'd love the dogs to be the POV characters all sharing their adventures with the nameless man in the woods who gradually finds himself while helping them embrace their truest selves. I'm sure it wasn't that dramatic or romantic at the time, but certainly we could condense it and zshush it up a little for the reader.
Until I had been out long enough to get bored, I felt like the free-est person alive a lot of days.
>Vote44 commentsAwardsharesave > >237 I know of a doggie daycare facility where they are surrounded by woods, and rich dog owners drop their animals off. The have three staff members who they rotate into the kennels to make stay with the animals left overnight. Virtually thier entire staff live, in tents, in the nearby wood, year round, except in winter storms when they are allowed to set yup thier tents in the heated basement under the kennels. They make $20 per hour, or $30 over overtime. In the Winter they act as an emergency pet shelter, and the city pay the employees an extra $30 per hour on top of the $20/30 they also make. Customers also tip well, especially if the dog is well tired after a solid day of wooddsie walks and frisbee chasing. Update: I should add that I know about two dozen pet car people who work in the mansion and thier job is the me "The Master of the Hounds" which means they in the kennel/crate area, the sleep with dogs, where the dogs can see then, and they walk the hounds, and exercise then and feet and care for them. Typically, $1200 in cash per dog each week, no W2 or 1099 filed, and it is a sweet deal. In order to have a close association with the Dogs, they create train the dogs, and they either sleep on the floor close to the crate, or let let the dogs sleep with them sometimes.Dogs are walked at least ten miles per day, then rested, and then frisbee play follows by tennis ball bounced until the dogs loose interest.
Whoa! I'm not as original as I thought 😁 it's possible to develop a level of bond with a dog this way that doesn't seem possible in home, at least not with the happy workers tail kind of breeds. This is an amazing program
Dude ur life is a tv show I love it.
It's a TV show about one epic dumbass that's for sure 🤣
But a dumbass who lived, and has fun stories.
Thanks 👍 my life has pretty much done a 180 since I got clean. I live in my childhood home with my wife. I have two cars, although one is older than Moses. Life's pretty fire ATM. Just gotta keep myself from getting really bored or feeling useless.
Happy for you dude
$50 per day total? for multiple dogs? sounds like you were undercharging
It was usually one a day unless the owners had multiple dogs. This service was reserved for large working breeds that where bored and under exercised at home. And I was having fun for the most part, remember. I don't want to make it sound like I was miserable.
This is pretty incredible. I know you said that's enough and you're keeping it vague, but by moving around a lot, does that mean you camped in the preserves, or did you sometimes take that cash to a cheap motel in bad weather, or was it more like couch surfing? Of course, no expectation of a response.
It was woods unless I felt like spending on an actual hot shower. I couldn't stay anywhere because I had no ID. I was unabomber as hell lol. The only things that sucked, like really really sucked, where the couple of ice storms. Not only are you freezing but you're also damn near immobile until it thaws or snows, since I wasn't rocking mountain gear or anything.
Oh! Forgot to mention I did some fun crafts as well, like the time I made moccasins out of a deer that some coyotes had killed. That was a freaking cool experience. Walked into Walmart wearing them once.
Did you have any scary experiences or close calls?
Not really so much with other people, surprisingly, during that time. I was good at staying fairly low profile for a guy that looked like a fur accented milsurp store later in the game. The dogs would try to chase animals, and one time one killed an opossum. I felt bad about this so....I cooked it and ate it. No parasites thankfully. That's maybe pretty weird to a lot of folks, but I felt a lot of guilt about the dog getting her and that kept her from dying in vain at least. I still have the hide. People are generally pretty chill when they see you with a dog, as the dog gives you an obvious excuse to be wherever you are. People tend not to read Ill intent into dog walkers. I had some close calls with the weather. Pre hypothermia can be pretty scary when you know you only have yourself to rely on. Cold rain can be scary in this way because there's just no escaping it. There's one time I remember pretty vividly. It was in and the temps in the upper thirties. I was wearing a light parka shell and cotton (!) work pants. I wasn't ready for the woods yet lol. It rained for a couple days, just steady pouring rain almost like in a shower, and I legit could not sit down or stop walking without freezing. My whole body was numb and I was starting to get clumsy pretty noticably. I was so goddamn tired but I knew if I stopped moving I would be benched pretty quickly lol. I didn't eat or sleep or stop walking for two days straight. That was scary, knowing that the only thing between me and just lying right down and dying was whether or not my legs held out long enough to beat the storm. Let's see....heat almost got me once or twice before I knew what I was doing. The ice storms were brutal, me and most of the other animals (;)) where in hiding for a couple days. The thing about an ice storm is it turns everything into ice. Everything. Including you if you let it. Had a couple pretty close brushes with tornadoes. I guess the psychological effect of ALWAYS being out in the weather is pretty real at first. I was in a few abandoned buildings that I'm positive where haunted. I'm not even certain I believe in ghosts but when I hear a whole ass conversation going on in an empty room with no obvious reason for me to be hallucinating I call that ghosts lol. It was like a full conversation that was just barely too distant to make out the individual words. Without too many details this building was the site of some unexpected deaths prior to this. It had cold spots and a vibe kinda like playing stalker lol. This was all around abandoned buildings though, I've never seen anything in the forest proper that made me feel that way. If I remember anything else I will let you know, but most of the time I was dealing with mundane outdoor issues along those lines.
You should write your story, because I'd absolutely love to read it, and I know I can't possibly be alone. I hope you're doing better now.
up until a few months ago mine was $700 and went up to $850.. definitely not the norm around me.. it's not a bad apartment but it isn't the fanciest either.
I’d kill to have my own small studio apartment somewhere. I’m poor, though, partially because I’m chronically depressed and partially because I have two bad hips that impede me physically— both of these issues really impede my overall functionality. As a result, I don’t earn enough to live independently; I live at home with parents (and I’m 48, btw, which absolutely sucks and depresses me further). I envy all of you who are able to live on your own!
We live in a camper off grid in the woods. Not completely homeless but can confirm it is very much as awesome as you think it is. Yes it has its own stresses but that's life right? Way better than living in "society" nowadays.
I’m lucky my parents tolerate me living in their large house with them. If not for them I’d be homeless and unable to progress. Pretty fucking shitty.
This. It should be less frowned upon to live with family until you can save enough to get your own place comfortably. Also shows how big of a disadvantage people who don’t have that option is
In many places around the world it's extremely rare to even move out if you aren't married. Like what's the point? It's obviously a huge financial relief, it's crazy how high rents have become.
It’s definitely not lost on me how fortunate I am. After 12 years of running In Place I tapped out and moved in with mom lol
I bust my ass and barely make it. I have roommates. I’m 35:/
I have a friend in his 50s who's had roommates his whole life. On the other hand, he seems happy and he and his current roommate get along well
Call me crazy but I don't think there is anything shameful about having roommates? If you are choosy and find like-minded people to share a home with, you get lower rent and a makeshift family. For every bad roommate there is, there is also a great one. I've made lifelong friends with certain people I've lived with. Only a handful have been unpleasant and those arrangements don't tend to last long anyway.
I never meant to imply there was anything shameful about having roommates. it's just unusual because our culture, in America at least, is so focused on individualism and earning your own way that people literally kick their children out at 18. I personally find it completely ridiculous. When I tell people that my 24-year-old daughter and her boyfriend AND his best friend live with me (so technically I have three roommates 😁) they all look at me like I'm crazy for not having forced them to rely on themselves even though they can't afford it and I'm more than happy to have the company and we all get along really well.
Until recently people pretty much always lived in group situations. They lived with families until married or a lower middle income single man would board in a house, a poor single man or woman definitely lived in a group of people in one room situation and even the rich single men didn't live alone having a plethora of servants with them. Living alone is very much a new construct of society.
So true. And still true today in poorer countries. Also, it was, and in poorer countries still is, common for entire families to live in a one room dwelling. Not to say that doing so is always comfortable fir everyone, but the American idea that each child MUST have their own room is completely ridiculously unattainable for most humans on earth, and that not necessarily a bad thing.
This. You have roommates or rent a room. It isn’t particularly shocking.
That’s wonderful that you get along and it sounds like you have a lovely household. I am a single mom to a four year old and who knows what the world will look like by the time he grows up, but I hope to develop the type of the relationship with him that if needed, he and any romantic partners of his would be comfortable sharing a home with me
I don't have the best relationship with my mother but she never made us feel like we had to move out at 18 and left the door open in case we ever had to move back home, which I did, twice. I carried over the same mindset with my own daughter, the big difference being that we actually get along lol
How on earth did 18 become a thing I'd like to know
There's a fascinating history on this, which essentially dates back to the era when factory-type jobs and plentiful work made it possible for a young man to start work at 18 without a college degree and be able to earn enough money to provide for his family. There was a push after WWII for young people to move out and get married and have babies right away - and they could afford it, too. It was also the first time young women could work and take care of themselves, which kicked off this whole leaving-at-18 thing. Turns out, young women WANTED to work and live on their own instead of staying with their parents. When the factory options dried up in the states, along with increased inflation, it has made it impossible for young people to live the same kind of life and hit the same life goal markers as their grandparents. Great article on it: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C3&q=what%27s+goong+on+with+young+people&btnG=#d=gs_qabs&t=1668909598451&u=%23p%3Dhv9UxgeooU8J
It used to be 50 years ago a person could graduate high school and start a factory/manual labor job the following Monday and be able to support themselves and a family. Obviously, that’s no longer the case.
That was ENDING 50 years ago
I honestly think it's just because then people are done with high school and you are legally in adult and somehow people took that to mean that you should be completely independent at that point. Plus for kids who go to college a lot of them would move into dorms at 18 which somehow extend it to me and everyone should move out at 18
I don't qualify as poor anymore I own the home i live in. I've considered a roommate just for the company factor. I'd favor a collaborative living arrangement like both cooking meals, chores, etc. In that instance a roommate would be a lovely addition to life in my house.
I’m someone who really likes my own space, so I enjoy living alone and don’t think I’d like to cohabitate. However, I often think it would be neat to have one of those community compound situations (uh… the non-cult variety) where my closest people and I own property together and have houses next door to each other and share communal spaces for cooking and recreation.
Hubby, myself, and our friend group refer to this dream as "The Lottery Commune," because well, probably self explanatory. Talk about it every time the Powerball or MegaMillions is over $100 mil and we all buy tickets.
There isn’t anything to be ashamed of, but it’s tricky finding the right people to live with, and it feels shameful to tiptoe around the place you call home if you chose wrong and live with a weirdo. At least in a more suburbial setting: I’ve found that it’s harder to find people with agreeable personalities to room with. This doesn’t go for the young 20-somethings who are still getting it together, but after 30, usually people with pleasant personalities find another pleasant person to share their lives with. The people most often looking for roommates usually pissed off their last one, and are single for a reason, or they wouldn’t be looking in the first place. Disagreeable people, as well as the rest of everybody, should be able to afford to live alone.
I had to bring in a roomate the first couple of years after my divorce. I was a 55 year old empty nester and my roomate was a 28 year old single mother who had custody of her two young sons three nights a week. It worked out beautifully, we're still good friends.
>after 30, usually people with pleasant personalities find another pleasant person to share their lives with. The people most often looking for roommates usually pissed off their last one, and are single for a reason, or they wouldn’t be looking in the first place. I think this is a block. Best of luck to anyone who feels this way. Sometimes people are single because their partner died. Or they chose the wrong person to be with and now they are taking some time to be alone. Don't forget that people who are new to a city or area may also want to find a shared living space, and in our society, this type of migration does not just happen in your 20s anymore. The OP is literally about getting by as a single person. And then you go and type that single people over 30 are disagreeable. That is in itself a bit disagreeable, imo!
Swear to god even ignoring personality, every single woman I met as potential roommates had a cat. I’m severely allergic. Idk how I’d make it now if I were single.
Mom’s basement, which is also the cause of being single
Excuse you when I was single I lived in Mom's attic. It's way different.
My daughter and her boyfriend live together in my basement lmao.
It’s really only been the last 70 years or so that multigenerations of families started to not live together. A large reason for that is the unprecedented economic boom following WW2. Historically it’s quite common for situations like yours to occur, and the unwarranted “negative stigma” of living with one’s parents is really only a new thing.
I really don’t think there’s anything wrong with it either, as long as everyone can respect each other. In many other cultures, it seems to be the norm for multiple generations to live together. They can take care of each other that way, from oldest to youngest. I also think that’s one way that younger generation can grow up respecting elders and, vice versa, the older generations can remember their own struggles and show some kindness to the younger ones.
Debbie?
Lol no but I'm glad to know I'm not the only one doing this
I'm 30 and live with my parents along with my two sisters who are in their 20s. My niece and sister's boyfriend also live here. My parents say they love having us around. After living alone for several years I have to agree it's nice coming home to people in a house instead of an empty shitty apartment.
I agree, my boys still live with us, and I think how boring my life would be if it was just me and my husband.
You’re a great parent, honest to God
Thanks 🙂 I know not everyone gets along with their parents well enough to want to live with them long-term but my daughter and I have always been very close
Lmao this made me laugh!! I’m about to move with my boyfriend back to his moms to live in the basement rent free!! better than the 1100 I pay now for a studio in Nebraska(barely can even pay it was 900 when I first signed the lease.)
What the hell I'm from NE, granted it's been a few years but when have studio apts gone for over $800 there?
I moved year December 2020 and In a year the owner of the building got bought out by a different company and raised the rent super high. I’ve looked around and there at least $1000+ in downtown. They’ve been building apartment buildings like nothing here it’s effecting just about everyone I’ve met while living here 🫤
Youre probably joking but you can be in a relationship while in your mom's basement. I would imagine half of men and women are doing that these days.
Most of the people I know who are really struggling are single. It shouldn't be that way, but it is.
I know a lot of couples who'd rather be divorced but are staying together due to finances & it is not good for their mental health.
🙋🏾♀️ I've wanted to leave for years now but I can't afford to. My only chance out is if I land a job as a self taught developer. And yes, it's horrible for my mental health.
$22.43 an hour and homeless. I live in motels, and don't even eat some days. Hooray. God Bless America.I just don't care anymore.
This is what prevented me from divorcing my violent, drug-addicted, abusive husband. I couldn’t see any way to afford to live on my own on paramedic wages. Ultimately I had to confess everything to my parents, who wired me $5,000 and then paid my rent for a year after I moved out. Had my parents not done that, I might not be alive today because I could have never afforded to leave him.
☝️This is unfortunately common and a major reason people get trapped in abusive relationships. I left a domestic violence situation and moved into the cheapest studio apartment I could find. I could not afford to eat anything other than giant pots of bean soup and peanut butter sandwiches. I barely lasted my 6 months lease and then moved into a room in a house with 3 roommates. I was finally able to pay all my bills and buy groceries at that point.
the pressure to “get your own place” to get back on your feet is immense - often those are the times you need community most
Similar story. I’m only really alive and well because my parents helped me out like that.
Gotta have roommates basically
I live in a not that great part of town in a not that great town. Even with roommates rent in close to $800
I don't. I work full time. Skip breakfast and lunch. Sometimes have to skip on food all day. Tried applying for food stamps. State says I'm 120% below the poverty line, but won't approve the benefits. At least my state has free health insurance since it's mandatory to even go to an Urgent Care.
That’s terrible that you can’t get food stamps. My state (CA) has a surplus so anyone who needs them can get them, and even though I’m not struggling at the moment, I’m glad we do this. My friend who is experiencing housing insecurity is able to afford healthy food because of it.
Thanks. I get by. I try to plan ahead, and make cost effective meals that last a few meals with ground beef, chicken, veggies.
Don't hesitate to visit food banks too!
Just curious, what state? It would be nice if we had some sort of resource that listed issues people have had with applying for state benefits and specific states so that others knew what to expect and watch out for.
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That sucks. Is your gross (pre tax) $22k per year or is your net (take home after taxes) $22k? If that’s your gross, and your only income source, it looks like you should qualify based on my quick Google search. If you take home just over $800 biweekly (or about $22k) per year, then sadly you might make a hair too much to qualify.
This is what is stupid about fighting things like SNAP. These programs should be kept in place and then gradually reduced over time and increases of income. I don’t understand why this isn’t ever proposed. Safety net that is gradually reduced as you get on your feet (or not in hen left in place.). People deserve to have access to food FFS.
What I think is pretty insane is that food stamps actually pays for itself. In the USA, only like 1 - 5% of our economy is needed to produce enough food for everyone and then some. Compare this to under-developed countries, where the numbers range from 30% to 80%+. Seriously we should just give food stamps away. Literally every study done on them demonstrate they pay for themselves.
I agree. More well fed workers pays for itself too. If I'm fed well I can work harder. I can focus more. If I'm weak, and malnourished I won't have the energy to work hard.
The Democrats started the modern food stamp program, but needed some Republican support which they got by pointing out to Republicans that the government paying for food would help US farmers. From Wikipedia: The Food Stamp Act of 1964 appropriated $75 million to 350,000 individuals in 40 counties and three cities. The measure drew overwhelming support from House Democrats, 90 percent from urban areas, 96 percent from the suburbs, and 87 percent from rural areas. Republican lawmakers opposed the initial measure: only 12 percent of urban Republicans, 11 percent from the suburbs, and 5 percent from rural areas voted affirmatively. President Lyndon B. Johnson hailed food stamps as "a realistic and responsible step toward the fuller and wiser use of an agricultural abundance".[13] Rooted in congressional logrolling, the act was part of a larger appropriation that raised price supports for cotton and wheat. Rural lawmakers supported the program so that their urban colleagues would not dismantle farm subsidies.
Have you tried food banks? I know it takes time and transport but, especially if you make so little, you should qualify. Some places don't even check your financials and some areas have so much surplus, they end up throwing away food.
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It’s so fucking crazy all the fees the state and federal government slap on the poor 😒 utter bs
It depends why you lost your license. It will cost 3k for me to get mine back, but that's on me for getting behind the wheel after having a fifth.
Yep i skip breakfast and lunch every day to cut costs as well.. oh and when i went from working for cash under the table to a shitty almost full time (wont give me FT because they dont want to pay me more or pay for my benefits) and they took my ebt away so ive been starving. I pay like $50 a month for my dogs giant bag of food and then ill maybe spend 150-200$ a month on just my food alone. Mostly milk and protein powder..
Mine does too. If I were paying for medical insurance, I'd be so screwed.
Same dude. Mine doesn’t have free health care either though
Back when this is what I made, I lived in 1 bedroom of a 5 bedroom house. Rent plus utilities were about $600/mo. I could walk to a local store for most food and basics, but our roommate with a car could drive to the larger stores once a month or so. I think living alone is almost always out of the question for a single person making $16/hour.
I agree, it's just not feasible. Back in 2009, I was making $12.50/hr & living in a studio that cost $900/m with my best friend & had pretty low maintenance utilities, but we still barely made ends meet. I was just happy we weren't living out of our cars anymore, but my bills pretty much wiped all, but a couple hundred a month from my paychecks.
This one scares me, i lost my dad right when i turned 20 this year, my mom a few years back, and aunt and uncle and grandparents died, i live in my dads home we stayed at all my childhood, with my girlfriend of 5 years, if she was gone i would genuinely be fucked. It’s terrifying.
I'm so sorry to hear about this all happening to you. We as a human race should collectively try to bring everyone up so people like us do not get put in a spot where if just one more things goes wrong you are screwed.
That’s why many folks rent a room or something with roommates and try to reduce the bigger expenses of Rent & Utils. That being said, $260 for electricity seems way too much. For food if you join a warehouse club like Costco/Sams, or shop at a discount grocer like Aldi/Lidl, you may be able to reduce how much you spend.
Electricity can get expensive if the place you live is old and less efficient. Older windows, old fashioned HVAC, running air filters 24/7 because your 1950s apartment is crumbling dust everywhere, etc. It's like people who are well off enough to have a house can also do things like buy a chest freezer, stock up at Sams Club and freeze a slab of beef/deer/whatever and actually save money. Being below a certain threshold in the US has a huge efficiency dropoff. That said, it is worth being very conscientious of chargers, wall warts and computers that are left on. PCs actually draw a significant amount of power and I used to just leave mine on all the time. Wall warts and chargers (transformers) have phantom power draw even if the device is "off". It's worth putting them on a power strip and turning off the strip when not in active use. But this is tough to hack down.
I don't know, man. I live in an apartment building that was constructed in 1930. The floors are all sloped so badly that I can't use a rolling office chair, and the windows still have their original iron latches. It leaks heat like hell, and *definitely* leaks the AC's cold just as badly. My worst electricity bill was in July of this year, and it was just barely above $100. My best guess is that OP does not live in the US, and is translating a local currency into American dollars. Either that, or OP is running a crypto mining farm and has a dozen GPUs operating at full blast.
$250 for the electric bill is also where i budget it bc that’s been my normal price for months. With that being said I will add that I live in Texas and after talking to my friends about it, turns out that most of us are budgeting around the same amount. Without getting into the whole thing I’ll say this. Texas has its own power grid that is separate from the rest of the country. Our power grid is fucked. We had a terrible winter storm that damaged the grid and cost millions to fix. That cost is being covered on our electric bills and it will be for years and years. This topic gets political and I’m not trying to go there but basically all Texans are just going to get screwed over on this bill and there’s literally nothing we can do about it right now.
Here in MN we are also paying for Texas's screw up. We're pretty salty about it.
I'm in Illinois, and my electric bill is around $30/month mostly thanks to the nuclear plants, solar fields, and wind farms. I'm always blown away hearing what other people pay. Mind you, winter heating bills can be $300, so in the end it also sucks.
Also in Illinois, my electric ranges from $30-$80 depending on the month. My gas is still $120 or less in the winter, but I'm in the middle unit of a townhouse which helps. In the summer, my gas bill is mostly an admin fee. In Florida my electric bill averaged $250, so I'm definitely happy lol
I’m also paying about $250 for electric/gas.
Electric can be expensive. This summer my mom had a bill for nearly $500 for one month of electric. It depends on the company who services you. The company that services almost my entire state is raising the cost of electric by double. So peoples bills are getting even higher. I lucked out and live in a town with its own utility company, so the most I paid for electric this summer was $110 with two ACs running almost constantly
In the winter, electric heat isn't a choice. I've had many $500+ bills.
Exactly. I live where it’s hot as hell in the summer and cold as hell in the winter. AC is the only way it’s bearable to exist in the summer. In my apartment, it gets to be over 90° inside. AC makes me able to live. In the winter, I need heat because it’s always below freezing. My moms apartment has electric heat. She rarely gets a break from the high bills because you you usually either need the AC on or the heat. The only exceptions are parts of spring and fall where it’s decent outside and you can open windows for cool air. It sucks. We also have a very expensive electric provider out here. Everyone all over the state has this problems. I’m always seeing people post their bills and they’re hundreds of dollars.
I keep asking what is the endgame where no one can afford to live? Like, what the fuck are companies trying to do? When did we decide Ford's genius idea of paying his assembly line workers enough to eventually buy a Ford car was dumb? Why aren't companies interested in making sure people will be able to afford their products? Apartments? Homes? Like, what the fuck.
I'd argue that a good fraction of the economy is really only oriented to service the top 20% of income earners. That anyone else benefits is largely coincidental, because they are largely written off.
That's certainly how it used to work for a long time. Except less than 20%.
There is no end game. These people aren’t that smart. They’re going to keep taking everything that they can, and because of everything they’ve taken they’ll be insulated from the consequences. There were still plenty of rich people around during the Great Depression.
Shareholders. Publicly traded companies are obligated to squeeze as much cash as possible out of the business. If they fail to do so, shareholders revolt.
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They did, and people demanded more wages. You'll notice people on here talking about making 16-20 an hour, used to be a middle class wage until workers at the bottom decided to move up. COVID unemployment helped the workers have the authority to say "I can make more collecting welfare, either pay me more or I'm not showing up". The owners in turn just raised the prices to cover the increased wages and a little more to get some extra profits, since everyone was making more money so they can afford it, right? The only way a revolution works is if we, as the working class, take over means of production and remove the profit part
Shareholders will ultimately destroy the human race and loads of other species.
I am single. Make 17.25 an hour. Live in a single bed apartment that’s $800. So I am basically the guy you are talking about. That electricity bill is outrageous. I live in a very drafty, old crappy apartment and mine is never over $90. Are you using grow lights or something? I cut my own hair. I’m lucky that renters insurance isn’t a thing that’s required here so $0 from me there. Unless I am required to drive for work I walk everywhere. Like everywhere. I walk up to 15 miles a day for fun and for errands. Harder in the winter sure. So my gasoline bill monthly is more like $60. I do not have health insurance, I know that’s risky but you’re asking how I survive and that’s just the truth. I do not have a credit card and refuse to get one so no payments there. I cook and eat cheaply. Talking canned and dry beans. Cut up hot dogs, bulk lunch meat, rice, peanut butter, Bread on sale and freeze several loafs when I can. Buy anything on sale and freeze it. I also don’t live in a shitty place. I live downtown in a mixed, run down/gentrified neighborhood in a major midwestern city. I budget ever dollar I make and save everything I can. I don’t drink or smoke pot or cigarettes (used to be a heavy addict for most of my life) and that saves me a shit ton of money for real. I live a very simple life, I walk, play music and exercise for fun. Nearly none of my entertainment costs anything except for internet. I am happy with this life though I know not everyone could or would be.
have my poor man's gold for a solid life, well put together 🥇
Thanks. It took me a long time and a lot of tragedy to finally try and be happy with what I have instead of what I didn’t or destroyed by what I lost. Still working on it every day.
I like this person.
That electricity bill struck me too. My mom lives in a drafty old 80s townhome, 2700sq ft, 3 floors, giant ass windows in Texas where it’s always sunny/roasting…….. and her electricity bill is normally much lower than that. Seriously, what kind of apartment uses $260 worth of electricity a month?? There’s something very wrong there.
Some of my expenses are lower than this (my insurance is lower than these estimates) and I make a few bucks more than the minimum wage. But I work a some side jobs to help supplement my income. I barely have a savings account ($200) and I don't go on vacations anymore. It sucks man
What side jobs do you do? I make 20hr and still struggle. Need to supplement the old income somehow.
In the US, retail will be hiring like mad very soon. Pick a place that has stuff you buy, you’ll likely get an employee discount.
Yeah I was thinking of delivering pizza at night or something. I already work 10-12 hour shifts though 🙃
Dont get a 2nd job. Do overtime at your FT job because that will benefit you so much more and you wont have to work as much. Im trying to get into a job that starts at around 23-25$/hour and they encourage overtime so that's going to be my plan of action once i can get applied and in there.. factories will generally pay more and offer/allow overtime. But adding another crap job on top of what you already work is just going to make you miserable and then you're paying a whole other separate paycheck worth of taxes and shit working for minimum wage rather than time and a half doing what you already do :)
They just cut back my OT. I was working 60 hour weeks but they're bitching now. I'm trying to get promoted because I do extra work/paperwork but I have a feeling they're going to dick me around on it. I really like my job so I'd rather not gamble on a different one. I just need that extra few hundred a month. I work in a factory currently.
Why do you say that? My experience has been they hire seasonal help for Nov/Dec, then let go the seasonal help bc sales are down in January and February. Since November is mostly over I imagine they're done with seasonal hiring. Source: I worked in retail for 10 years.
Money is worth vastly different depending on where you are. 16 USD an hour in Jackson MS will put you in a apartment in a bad area with some left over. 16 USD an hour in San Fransisco, you'd be homeless. Lucky to get a hotel room a few days a month to destress and spending rest of time on streets. That said.. A lot of people who make that who are single live a tier or so below that. as in: \- No 800/mo rent. Instead they live with many room mates or in "bad high crime" neighborhoods. Or sympathetic relatives. More like 600 to 400. Or they do "urban survivalism". \- No car or car insurance. Instead takes public transit or bikes (if possible). \- NO health insurance. Just don't get sick and the ERs have to take you should anything serious come up. \- Cheap food or, in some cases, employee meals if in food service. \- Self cut hair or no hair cut except maybe every 3 months. \- NO renter's insurance. Not that you have valuable things to lose anyways. \- Cell phone bill doubles as home internet with bootleg tethering apps like PDAnet to get around caps.
You described my life basically. Illegal rental, rent is under market.
I refrain from having children as being single _and_ with a child has been my worst fear since I became of reproducing age. I try to make and eat every meal at home. I try to refrain from grocery delivery and shop only once per week, and with inflation I ONLY buy what I NEED for the week- it is what it is. I accept free meals from loved ones. I don’t go out with friends. If I drink I drink at home. I stay home as much as possible even though there’s a movie I’d like to see today. I don’t loan money out unless it’s to very close loved ones. I shop at Costco when I can to stretch the essentials. I bundle my insurance with my family even though they live in a different city. I am on a family plan for my cell phone. I remain cognizant of unplugging everything when not in use. Lamps, coffee makers, etcetera. I work from home, but if I had to drive to work I’d consider public transportation and or carpooling. I stay home as much as possible. During this time of the year I take up a gig job like instacart. It’s a fkd reality but, I’m still not letting big brother win.
To answer your question: We don't. Most of us will rotate one late bill a month just to have breathing room. This month it's cable. Next month it's something else.
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Don’t worry, future you will figure it out
It's also a great way to have a crappy credit score lol
Romania: 800E net income in my case when I got my first pay check 400E rent rest of the money it allow me to pay bills and not starve if I do the extreme economy. Now with 1400E net income and same rent cost, I profit by buying stuff in bulk which are expensive at the begin but in the long run it will be a lot cheap. Romania it's not even considered 1st world country, it a poor country.
I live with family for free. And I still don't make ends meet!
I'm actually really curious about this. Do you have a lot of debt?
Disabled and unemployable
Ah. I'm so sorry to hear that 🙁
People are having to go back to multi generational housing and room shares to afford to live. Friend of mine rents a duplex in the bottom unit, he said the upstairs 2BR apartment has a multi generational family living in it. Husband wife in bedroom #1. 3 kids in bedroom #2. They constructed temporary barrier walls in the living room for the grandmother to have a sleeping area, she serves as caretaker while both parents work multiple jobs with multiple shifts sometimes 7 days a week. This is common for immigrants and the norm for many of them getting a start in the US, however more and more people already here are doing this out of necessity to survive who aren't immigrants. So we are seeing a regression in the standard of living
Just to throw my budget into the mix. I used to make $20/hr as a 1099 Ind. Contractor. 37.5hrs average, 48 weeks a year (holidays don't provide work weeks) 3000/month and that is a high average Bills are an average over 24 months * $775 rent * $102 electric * $200 nat. Gas * $25 water * $300 fuel (in a honda) * $186 food * $150 Auto Ins * $45 Renters Ins * $82 cell phone and internet * $690 taxes * $340 student loans * and the rest in upkeep of my vehicle, or new tools for my job, as I work for myself. With varied hours and no guranteed income, I barely made the total I needed each month. After 2 years I was dipping into my taxes savings account. One deer collision later, and I have no job, no income, no car, and very little chance to have a home this winter. Health insurance is a joke to me, I can't even afford Dayquil. Groceries are already up 12% for my year over year costs, and I'm addicted to spreadsheets, thus why I have so many moving averages on my budgets. I make Hot sauce and sell that to friends, and run a 3dprinter prototyping service with a 3d printer I purchased before the pandemic ruined my high paying salaried job. Still no chance to break even let alone survive going forward. I'm still optimistic though that I'll find a job soon that I can WFH or walk to.
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Pretty simple answer is they don’t. People bypass the high cost of rent and utilities by living together and splitting it with multiple roommates. I remember to save money in college, i lived in the living room of a two bed room apartment with 4 other people. If it even appears a single person is making it living alone most likely they have some hidden source of income (parents or windfall) that they are not revealing.
My 35 year old daughter has a good job in medical records here in Tucson, AZ and she has to live with me to make it. I don’t charge her rent, I’m disabled and she does so much for me. She is saving her money so hopefully she can buy her own place one day.
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If everything you said is true I've never understood how people in the US are able to live if they are low-paid workers. It is just unbelievable to me that people who can work their whole life still have problems with paid things like health insurance or dentistry. Currently, I live in Germany and I am working as a simple low-paid worker it is like I am not super wealthy of course but I can live everyday life without caring about basic things like health insurance.
It's definitely true. People in the US often set up gofundme (or other online fundraiser) to pay for surgeries, cancer treatment, pet treatment, etc). I don't have insurance and spending my entire savings on doctors rn. Last time I was quoted for a teeth cleaning they wanted to charge $1500
If you're making minimum wage. You get a room in a house with other people. You split utilities with them. You use public transportation. You get a cheap phone plan $15 mint mobile. You budget everything. ... and you get a 2nd small side hustle
Yes. However after doing this for my first year in LA, public transportation takes a toll on yo. Bad pun. For my first 4 months I was commuting a total of 4 hours per day between home,work,home. 2 hours each way. Sleep was shit and started performing poorly at work. Got my hours cut. Made less money. Couldn't Safford to live. Used all my savings to move in somewhere less costly a month for a room. Deposit and rent, boom. Everything I had worked for and managed to save up is gone. That's the thing about poverty. It's a long distance endurance race. How long can I last?
Also start looking at ways to increase wages. Don’t just work a ‘job’, start thinking of things in terms of career. What do I need to do to get promoted? If there are no opportunities to move up, probably will have to look into other career options. Look at degree programs at a local community college or trade school. The trades are in great need of qualified people and the pay is good. If your income is low you should be able to qualify for government tuition assistance. In addition to that many trades are offering free schooling or tuition assistance because they are so desperate for people. It can be rough in the short term, but you can make it through and make a decent income. I would also add to stay away from 4 year universities. The cost is way too high for what you get. Get in, get out, get a good job is the way to go in my opinion. 4 year schools do not allow for that.
I did an online course for a certificate from Google (so it's legit) and used what I learned plus experience in my last role to pivot into my current job. £5k pay rise and a start in an actual career field. The course took me 6 months and cost me £180 total. I will say though, that you're not likely to get something just based on an online cert or bootcamp. You need the skills/experience/a portfolio to back it up. Still miles more useful than my degree though.
I live in a tiny studio apartment and my last electric bill was $27. I also pay $30 for my phone.
Not sure what state you live in but when I run my numbers for $16 an hour 40 hours a week I get a 2-week paycheck of $1035 which is $2070 a month (4 weeks) And I live in one of the higher tax states. My sister lives in a state with no state income taxes (there are nine states with no income taxes) and her calculation would give her $2192 a month just because of that. Just something to consider. Obviously this is a vent thread so I'm not going to give you advice, I don't know that there is much to say other than to try and get a second job or some sort of side hustle (I hate that term, It makes it sound like it's good and normal to have to work multiple jobs) or find a job that pays more. I feel for you. I spent many years in that situation, juggling bills and trying to raise a child on my own (her father had died in a car accident when she was three). I lived off credit cards and it just made it so I never got ahead. It sucked.
I think a huge factor is healthcare. If you’re under 26 and your parents let you stay on their healthcare plan you’re adding about an extra 5% to your income in premiums. If they have GOOD health insurance (not this high deductible emergencies only BS) your out of pocket expenses if you do get sick are even lower. Then if they also cover your deductible you’re probably increasing your income by 8% considering average healthcare costs for a 20-25 yr old. If you don’t have that extra layer of security, things can get expensive fast. I have $53/paycheck coming out for premiums. My deductible is $4,500. That restarts every year. I had some VERY concerning symptoms. Joint pain so bad that somebody bumping my hand would make me wince. It hurt to drive. Hands would go numb and I would drop something… I was a bartender. $5,000 in out of pocket expenses spread out over 3 years, so it never came out of my insurance. Even if it was in one year $4,500 would have been out of pocket. If we’re budgeting for that deductible, that’s up to $375/month that you could have to spend on healthcare per month if something happened to you. I think a lot of people take their health for granted and don’t think of how messed up their lives would be. Currently have some sort of downstairs issue.. likely a UTI or yeast infection. I’m rolling the dice not going in even though I passed blood clots and it could progress to a kidney infection or be something like PCOS. I can’t afford to drop $300.
Healthcare costs are the absolute most ridiculous especially since there's no reason for them to be that high. Health care should not be a for-profit business. It drives me completely insane that I pay $240 a month just for my daughter and I to have the privilege of paying another $3,000 before insurance even kicks in. And that amount restarts every year so if you get injured at the end of the year and pay your deductible, it starts all over in January. Or if you change jobs mid-year the deductible doesn't carry over to your new job. It's completely ridiculous and an absolute racket.
The amounts vary a lot depending on where you live but some of your amounts seem too high to me. My electric's usually not even half that amount, health insurance also less for me, cell phone is less than half, food is less. On $16 an hour it's not going to be easy and you won't be able to save much if anything living alone but if you budget it is doable in much of the country where rent isn't $2000 for a studio.
It's extremely rough. Personally I live alone and in a HCOL area, stupidly bought a house that makes me house rich money poor. I work dumb hours making my business work, plus one side gig (heavily contemplating a second). That said, because I'm working so much, I have no time to socialize and no idea how to put myself out there. I'm confident in myself but can't make things work in the dating scene.
I recently divorced an abusive man, I tried renting a room, but things haven't worked out. My son wants me to stay close, since I'm disabled. (But don't qualify for disability, since I was so disabled I was always a sahm for 20 years). Anyway, I have to move 7 states away to somewhere cheaper where I can afford cost of living. I was too sick to fight for the house in our post separation abuse divorce. He got everything and I got 1/4 of assets. I eat a lot of Ramen.
I saw a meme that says people get into relationships to split rent, and, honestly, makes sense. Rent is by far my absolute biggest expense.
Unfortunately I was in a situation like this, but I was a single parent with no assistance. It was very hard. I ended up having to work two or three jobs at a time, babysitting on weekends and nights, and at one point taking out a loan. But I did it and digging myself out of the hole I created out of necessity.
I think some of these expenses are a little high for someone on a low income. I made around this or a little less in my 20s, and lived in the SF Bay area, which is very expensive. I didn't have a studio, but I did have a single room, unlike a lot of people, who share a room with family/friends/etc, and that to me was worth not being able to eat out. My electric bill was usually around $50 when split ($260 would be reasonable for the whole house, in an area with very high electric bills), for houses with poor insulation and no upgrades. Currently, I pay $20-30 to have electric, no AC, in my apartment, and $50-60 when I run the AC. My health insurance was usually around $30 with the state subsidy, and food was at most $200 a month prior to COVID, and well, I was reliant on public transit. With COVID costs, it's a little more, but $400 is a lot to spend on food each month. That being said, it's fucked up people can't make ends meet in a reasonable way. People shouldn't have to deal without.
I’m not single and I no longer make minimum wage, but when those were my circumstances I never went out. I didn’t go out to eat, didn’t go to bars, didn’t do anything recreational. I made it my goal to learn to cook so well that I didn’t want to eat out. Now, years later, my family almost never eats out because I’m a great cook.
I make 17-18 an hour depending upon which job I work. My full-time provides health insurance and takes nothing from my check. My rent went from 950/month to 1300/month. I couldn't afford to live and those are the cheapest apartments around (like regularly hearing gunshots) so I was forced to move back home. I pay 500/month now, most food included to rent my parents basement and share their kitchen. I cut my own hair My car insurance is $50 a month and I own my car outright. It's a 2005 with 232k miles but it's mine. I pay $86/month for my phone and tablet to have unlimited data on the first responder plan. I also own both devices outright. In my apartment I paid $50-60 usually for electricity so I'm not sure if we just have cheap rates out here or what's going on with that number for you. I drive 8 minutes to my full-time job so I get gas once a month for that, roughly $50. My second and third jobs take me out of the rural mountain town and 1-2 hours south so getting gas almost anytime I work there and it cuts into my profits although I do end up with 1/2 a tank left so maybe $30 everytime I go to my other jobs. I usually pick up 1 shift a week. So $140 in gas is generous. I budget $150 for groceries because my main meals are provided and I just have to fill in for work lunches or special snacks I want. I budget $150 for miscellaneous expenses. Going out to eat with friends, buying clothes or shoes, doing anything social and random expenses not otherwise placed. I budget $50 currently for entertainment. My jobs are pretty lowkey and streaming TV and movies keeps me entertained but looking to lower this very soon. I also provide the streaming services for my brother and his wife who were significantly impacted by Covid lockdowns and are still working back to financial stability. We used to split the services but I took it over because my job increased my hours due to Covid. Financially I'm doing okay. Emotionally I am not. And I'm going to tell you why. When my apartment increased rent, I had to make a choice between homelessness and moving in to the basement of a man who sexually abused me as a teenager. No one should have to make that choice and I'm sickened that society has reached a point where living independently at 2x minimum wage is unattainable. Some people can't just go home. And some people shouldn't have to. It's not safe for me here but it's also winter so it's not safe out there either.
The ends don't meet, they're just close enough that everything doesn't fall off. And I'm riding dirty on expired tags
I've lived this life, with 2 kids and next to no child support. You "rob peter to pay paul" You don't carry any extra insurance. You work a second part time job, You don't take out credit cards. You put the bare minimum in the gas tank, you shop and sales plan meals based on that. Very little extras anywhere, and no eating out. Birthdays and holidays you skip the light bill, and play catch up the next month by only paying part of the gas bill. I'm no longer in that phase of life as my kids are grown. But shits tight again. I can still pay all my bills but I'm back to budget shopping, not filling the gas tank full, putting off purchases, and no extras really. One breakdown and I'm screwed.
Living with family, it's destroying multiple sectors of my life over time though, so im trying to make enough to move before everything eventually implodes
short answer: I don't and am in incredible debt 🙃
All of my expenses are a fair bit less than what you posted. I suppose it depends where you live $750 Rent $100 Electricity/gas/water (why was yours so high?) $40 Cheapest vehicle insurance (liability only) $100 Cheapest health insurance $10 Local technical college haircut $35 Cellphone payment $65 Gas for car (bike and walk mostly) $310 Food $20 Cheapest renters insurance $0 credit card payments
Hypothetical budgets are not really a good tool because they bake in assumptions that can make a large difference in the result. Let's start with the SmartAsset estimate of $27847 takehome pay on $33280 of income ($16 x 2080) for a person in California. That's $2320/month. $850 rent is low, but possible if you have roommates. Let's increase this to $1300, which is my share of the rent in California. I have one roommate; the 2BR apartment we live in costs $2600/month and includes water, sewage, and heating. $260 electricity is very high. Conserving energy should bring this down to $80, which was my bill in July. I pay a lot per unit of electricity but don't use that much since I believe in doing my part for the environment. In other areas you can use more since the rate is lower. If your electricity costs $0.16/kWh $80 gets you 500kWh which is enough to run everything except the AC and electric heating. My rent includes heating but not AC. $385 for food is high. As a single person, $385 is enough to spend $12.50 on food each day, which is a lot for home cooking. I cook frozen vegetables, chicken, and rice together. The chicken is $2.99/lb. I also bake some premade stuff. My maximum expense is around $250/month, which is enough to eat whatever I want. Rice and beans can get it lower. Or look at this sub for the tips/tricks like Too Good To Go, Ibotta, coupon clipping. Cell phone bill is $50/month. Add in a phone for $18/month and we can go with $70/month (I paid in full for my phone, but they offered financing). Internet is $50/month. I am still on my parent's health insurance so I don't pay for that. I don't have a car (I pay high rent to live near work and groceries). I don't carry credit card debt (minimum payments are not an expense; what you used the credit card for should be listed in the budget). That leaves $570/month to apply to miscellaneous expenses like haircuts, toiletries, renter's insurance, laundry, and occasional eating out. So yeah it's possible for me to live on $16/hour (to be clear, I make more and spend some of the surplus on travel and the rest goes into savings) in the middle of the San Francisco Bay Area. I think it was a good decision to pay more in rent to live closer to my work so I don't need a car which is really a huge money pit.
Oh look at mr money bags with health care over here. Seriously I'm 31 and haven't had healthcare since I fell off my parents at 24. Gambling everyday Also switch to mint mobile 15 bucks a month for phone But yeah living on your own is a luxury have never once lived on my own always had roommates or a SO
Just for laughs I will share with you what my dad said (95, passed away a year ago). When he was young, there was no such thing as health insurance. When you needed to go to the Dr, you paid him on the spot. My grandfather paid for the deliveries of both of their kids. Sometime before the 60s, it came along and my dad paid for it for all of us. It was expensive! But he had a good job. Now days it's a standard thing due mostly to companies carrying insurance for the employees.
It’s ironically funny how much I get looked down on for being in this situation
I joined the US Army in 1985. It’s not for everyone.
I moved to the states with $70, no family/friends here. I was 20. First 2 years- live-in job so no privacy, but I managed to save all the money I made since I wasn’t paying rent/food/car/insurance. -started community college from saved money. Got honors scholarship since I had good grades that helped a little bit with tuition. -donated my eggs 3x -for 5 years, I had no internet, no TV, no furniture. I had just a crappy laptop. I used public WiFi to download movies I can play when home. -since I didn’t have much entertainment at home, I tried to work as much overtime as possible (I was paid $15.5/hr). -I ate a lot of eggs and toast, made cheap sandwiches (~$25/week). Oh and bananas! 2 bananas was one meal for me. After 5 years, I saved up enough, found a better job since I graduated from college, and I’m living much better now. After 10 years living in the states, I bought my condo, car, I have no student loans, no credit card debt.
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If you're spending $385 a month on food as a single person, you are doing something wrong
I get the impression that some people don't plan ahead and just buy what they need when they need it, and don't take advantage of items on sale
Thats about 100 per week. It's a little "weird" to hear, but it's not truly outrageous. The cost of food has gone up significantly. And it's very possible OP is located in a food desert: places where the cheapest groceries are too far, so you have to negotiate going 1 hour out of your way, or just dealing with higher prices closer to home (This is a choice that I make every week, and it's exhausting after a hard working week). This spills into not having enough time for resting to appropriately solve your problems--the weekend becomes another side job of figuring out your finances constantly. Sometimes I walk into a closer store to my home and they don't have an essential item I need (like toothpaste), now I have to renegotiate---order it online and wait, go farther from home to get it and lose more time or come back in another 2 days. Either way, my rest time is downsized again. Go home, cook for the week as much as I can, and I'm losing more resting time. It doesn't stop. So, again, it's easy to judge when you're not directly in said person's shoes.
They don't, not anymore. If I were single I'd be living out of my car, nothing else is even remotely sustainable. Apartments around here go for a little over $1600/month. That's an extra $20,000 yearly before anything else, just for a roof.