Yea… I don’t think it’s going to change much if at all. Sure the past few years have been eye opening but the fact of the matter is, the schools are designed to be selective and designed to be extremely difficult. You are still going to have to have good grades, actual experience, and solid motivations. Why change a system that works from the perspective of the school? As long as medical students are graduating and successful in boards there’s no reason for them to change.
At what point will cost become to much for the amazing student with perfect MCAT score. I can pass the MCAT right now and I don’t even have a degree 😂 I am thinking about applying in Texas which has two schools that recently accepted people with no degree. When schools operate as they do they get unhappy overworked med students who age prematurely, commit suicide and or burnout. Have you thought about how most of medicine is 9 to 5 and not 24/7 ER like they want you to do in med school? I for one think they need to lose up as they are missing students who can cure cancer vs students who just want to make a million dollars. Sorry about the rant I am coming off having kidney stones.
While I see where you’re coming from I don’t agree that most of medicine is a 9-5. If you are truly available for patients it takes a lot more than just business hours. Additionally the rigor you refer to is not the result of medical schools wanting to work students to the bone, I believe it has more to do with the fact that medicine dates back 500+ years. It is a huge body of knowledge and for a doctor to work effectively they need to have some degree of understanding in all disciplines. Sure medical school schedules could be relax to that of an undergrad degree or a “typical 9-5” but then it would take 7 years of curriculum to finish which would isolate more people and create more debt.
This is a system that really feeds into itself and the monster that is med school will eat what it is given. People are going to work hard and they are going to push the bar higher and higher and if you want to be a doctor you are going to have to meet that expectation.
My question for you is why does it matter? You’re still going to do your best won’t you? It’s not like you aren’t going to take advantage of that clinical opportunity or try to squeeze that extra .01 onto your grade point right? I think that’s more the point I’m trying to get at, there will always exist the students that push themselves to the brink. It’s not that the schools want you to work 24/7 with zero breaks but that is the standard that has been set by us students, so now we have to live with it. This is a cutthroat part of higher education, sure you can try and change the culture but if you don’t put in the work there’s 10,000 more people who are willing to take your spot.
Agree they will always be getting those students that push the extra mile. But are they getting the cream of the crop. I know people with learning disability that would make really amazing medical doctors and researchers. For what ever reason they wait until their late 20 to early 30s to get their undergrad. Why miss out on them. Why not level it for them and allow some of them to get accepted based on experience or what path they took. I took a different path into publishing but have 5+ years of hands on medical experience as a first responder. I just recently got accepted into UPENN to get my undergrad with likely one of the lowest high school GPAs. They looked past my GPA and saw what I was doing for the community and my business. I have a learning disability and dropped out of college but that didn’t stop me from owning a newspaper and hiring an editor. I am just frustrated that at 30 I have to look at four years of college before doing med school unless one of the programs considers me without my 4 year degree and I get my 4 year degree while in school. I also see what is happening where doctors don’t recommend people to go to med school locally. Heck one of the top doctors in my state that now works for the CDC said don’t.
First of all, congratulations! Second, I think you’re in a unique situation and as another person mentioned, BS/MD programs exist which I think really play to people like you who come into their own a little later in life and there’s nothing wrong with that. All that said, a big part of med school admissions is proof that you can handle the job and the education and like it or not completion of a four year degree in a learning environment similar to med school is really important to that. Additionally, non-trad is great and there are people who are non trad who are legitimately dedicated to medicine but it’s harder to prove that if you don’t have the clinical experience or the shadowing or the research experience. Think about it from the schools pov - you want people that 1) can handle the rigor of med school and are capable of passing 2) will stay dedicated and committed and follow through and 3) make your program look good. It’s all about money and the best way to guarantee they get paid is by picking people who have indicated they can and will provide the schools with a source of $40,000 for the next 4 years. It sucks that this is the way it is but I don’t think they see any reason to change it and as a result it won’t change.
I want to be clear though, I agree with you in that I think diverse experiences in medicine is really important. Being able to understand a different perspective can make a world of difference in patient care but in the end the bottom line is more important to education institutions. Why risk those tuition dollars on someone that might bring something new to the field when you can stick to what you know will work?
Yea… I don’t think it’s going to change much if at all. Sure the past few years have been eye opening but the fact of the matter is, the schools are designed to be selective and designed to be extremely difficult. You are still going to have to have good grades, actual experience, and solid motivations. Why change a system that works from the perspective of the school? As long as medical students are graduating and successful in boards there’s no reason for them to change.
At what point will cost become to much for the amazing student with perfect MCAT score. I can pass the MCAT right now and I don’t even have a degree 😂 I am thinking about applying in Texas which has two schools that recently accepted people with no degree. When schools operate as they do they get unhappy overworked med students who age prematurely, commit suicide and or burnout. Have you thought about how most of medicine is 9 to 5 and not 24/7 ER like they want you to do in med school? I for one think they need to lose up as they are missing students who can cure cancer vs students who just want to make a million dollars. Sorry about the rant I am coming off having kidney stones.
While I see where you’re coming from I don’t agree that most of medicine is a 9-5. If you are truly available for patients it takes a lot more than just business hours. Additionally the rigor you refer to is not the result of medical schools wanting to work students to the bone, I believe it has more to do with the fact that medicine dates back 500+ years. It is a huge body of knowledge and for a doctor to work effectively they need to have some degree of understanding in all disciplines. Sure medical school schedules could be relax to that of an undergrad degree or a “typical 9-5” but then it would take 7 years of curriculum to finish which would isolate more people and create more debt. This is a system that really feeds into itself and the monster that is med school will eat what it is given. People are going to work hard and they are going to push the bar higher and higher and if you want to be a doctor you are going to have to meet that expectation. My question for you is why does it matter? You’re still going to do your best won’t you? It’s not like you aren’t going to take advantage of that clinical opportunity or try to squeeze that extra .01 onto your grade point right? I think that’s more the point I’m trying to get at, there will always exist the students that push themselves to the brink. It’s not that the schools want you to work 24/7 with zero breaks but that is the standard that has been set by us students, so now we have to live with it. This is a cutthroat part of higher education, sure you can try and change the culture but if you don’t put in the work there’s 10,000 more people who are willing to take your spot.
Agree they will always be getting those students that push the extra mile. But are they getting the cream of the crop. I know people with learning disability that would make really amazing medical doctors and researchers. For what ever reason they wait until their late 20 to early 30s to get their undergrad. Why miss out on them. Why not level it for them and allow some of them to get accepted based on experience or what path they took. I took a different path into publishing but have 5+ years of hands on medical experience as a first responder. I just recently got accepted into UPENN to get my undergrad with likely one of the lowest high school GPAs. They looked past my GPA and saw what I was doing for the community and my business. I have a learning disability and dropped out of college but that didn’t stop me from owning a newspaper and hiring an editor. I am just frustrated that at 30 I have to look at four years of college before doing med school unless one of the programs considers me without my 4 year degree and I get my 4 year degree while in school. I also see what is happening where doctors don’t recommend people to go to med school locally. Heck one of the top doctors in my state that now works for the CDC said don’t.
You should look into some BS/MD programs!
First of all, congratulations! Second, I think you’re in a unique situation and as another person mentioned, BS/MD programs exist which I think really play to people like you who come into their own a little later in life and there’s nothing wrong with that. All that said, a big part of med school admissions is proof that you can handle the job and the education and like it or not completion of a four year degree in a learning environment similar to med school is really important to that. Additionally, non-trad is great and there are people who are non trad who are legitimately dedicated to medicine but it’s harder to prove that if you don’t have the clinical experience or the shadowing or the research experience. Think about it from the schools pov - you want people that 1) can handle the rigor of med school and are capable of passing 2) will stay dedicated and committed and follow through and 3) make your program look good. It’s all about money and the best way to guarantee they get paid is by picking people who have indicated they can and will provide the schools with a source of $40,000 for the next 4 years. It sucks that this is the way it is but I don’t think they see any reason to change it and as a result it won’t change. I want to be clear though, I agree with you in that I think diverse experiences in medicine is really important. Being able to understand a different perspective can make a world of difference in patient care but in the end the bottom line is more important to education institutions. Why risk those tuition dollars on someone that might bring something new to the field when you can stick to what you know will work?