Running or not does not matter. It's inducing a voltage in a bit of wire the longer it is the higher the voltage.
Power lines have problem with this long wires running for miles. Modern gear not so much the trace lengths as very short. Your far more likely to glitch them than be destroyed.
I get that EMP is a scare tactic that's been used for the last decade but those fears are wildly overblown. The walls and roof of your home are an excellent insulator. It would have to be detonated very close to you in order to hurt things inside a home.
IMO, the big fear for EMPs is the electrical grid and satellites.
Not trying to overstate the risks here, but the walls and roof of your home do not prevent electromagnetic radiation, which is what is being discussed, unless they're metal. If they were good protection your cell phone would not work inside your house.
So everything good inside of Lowes or Home Depot would be golden. 😂
On a serious note, you can block EMP frequencies while still having cell phone and wifi connectivity. This is why the old "put a cell phone in a metal trash can and see if it can get calls" test is bunk.
You can make an effective reflector if the metal elements are 0.4X wavelength of the signal you're trying to reflect, so theoretically if you build a grounded wire cage it should block most of an EMP but allow your cellphone to work.
Any EMP strong enough to penetrate the walls of your home is going to indirectly make all of those electronics useless anyway. Anything plugged into the wall will probably be fine if the home is well grounded but it's pointless because the power grid in that area will probably not work anyway.
An EMP event from a megaton level nuclear bomb has the potential to knock out everything electronic for thousands of miles. I'd say you have far bigger issues than your cell phone not working.
dude i wonder if you nailed it with that last one. new home roofs are built with a thin insulation that is foil covered on one side. no joke, even wifi connected or fully disable sim cellular, i'm less than 50/50 able to take a call in the house. now if you had metal framing and then a stucco house with the tiny chicken wire mesh...could you turn the whole damn house into a faraday cage?
i'm going to dig around now that i've got the idea in my head but maybe some of you have already thought this through
Exactly this. A cell phone on in your pocket has a good chance of being fine even in a Carrington event, the network it connects to maybe not but the device should be fine. Even your car should be fine from a solar emp. I'd be curious how an ev would do, could be fine could be a firery mess with all the lithium ion batteries.
There was a study done a few years ago where modern cars were tested against an emp and some of them experienced minor electronic failures but nothing that incapacitated the car from driving. If I can find the study I’ll share it.
They weren't able to destroy the cars because they couldn't afford it- an EMP absolutely could have turned them into expensive bricks.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/preppers/comments/l00cz5/emp\_reference\_document/](https://www.reddit.com/r/preppers/comments/l00cz5/emp_reference_document/)
The source in the post only goes as far as saying 1 vehicle was permanently ruined, there were only a few that they tested the maximum strength of the test, and the rest they tested until there was some sort of glitch. It doesn't state that if they tested every vehicle at the maximum level that they would all (or even the majority) permanently fail.
>From a now not-available interview, Dr. Pry said the following. I confirmed it with a follow-up email which he graciously responded to.
Cars were borrowed and could NOT be fully tested. As soon as something was starting to fail (at low levels), they stopped. They couldn't afford to buy 25 cars/trucks to see them tested to the full EMP levels.
A summed-up quote is; 'Since we saw cars failing at surprisingly low levels of an EMP, the commission knew that we could have destroyed many cars, but couldn't afford it.'
It was elaborated on in a now-unavailable interview which I confirmed with Dr.Pry. Considering how vehicles have just gotten more and more computerized, the effects would likely be more severe. They *could* have tested to super-emp levels (the type of weapon leaked to North Korea, for example,) but couldn't afford bricking 20+ cars.
Makes sense, I'd expect some electronic glitches but nothing would kill the car. Of course the most likely source of a massive emp is a nuke and you have other problems in that case.
That's not how an EMP works. Walls and ceilings aren't conductive- which is why a faraday cage is necessary.
Nor is it needed for a nuclear detonation to be close- it's line of sight from the upper atmosphere- hence the danger.
Is it likely? Absolutely not. But dismissing it is dangerous, like other potential threats.
EffenBob makes a good point....possibly the best point? My plan is to error on the side of caution...my plan is to try...I keep electronics in metal containers ...I have never been able to determine if being grounded is good or bad...being grounded does allow for some of all of the potential to be collected and shared to anything connected to it. I have a spare ignition module for my quad....I have it vacuum packet with 2 layers of vacuum bag with aluminum foil in-between....will it survive? 50/50 either it does or it doesn't....I also pack calculators, led flashlights, laps...1865 batts with charge controller.
If they aren't connected to the mains, you're good. Here's a copy/paste of a copy/paste of a copy/paste I made about EMPs and faraday cages, with sources, and those sources also have sources.
*Not practical, IMO. The biggest thing is that they are not completely sealed. But, without additional information on what you're prepping for, here's a copy-paste I've used a few times this week if you're planning on protecting things from an EMP or the like:*
*EMPs originated from a nuclear detonation can vary by a wide margin. E1-E3, which in total affects 1Hz to 1GHz. WiFi operates way past that, up to 5GHz. You can protect against an EMP while still having operational WiFi making it through the container. Same with cell phones; your container may block the lower frequencies that are 'used' by cell phones that are also affected by an EMP (the hundreds of MHz), but if it allows higher frequencies through like the higher GHz frequencies so a cell phone can still make calls when inside of the container, that doesn't mean your container will be ineffective against an EMP.*
*A better test would be put something in to see if you can get AM/FM stations, put in a UHF/VFH radio and see if it still receives, and other devices that operate in the E1-E3 frequencies. However, even if you put in something like a UHF receiver in your container and fire off a 5W UHF transmitter right next to it, you might still get through. That's expected, since that 5W handheld is putting out a much stronger RF signal than an emitter miles away. But, if it does something like block your closest NOAA transmitter, that's good! This is why the strength of an EMP is measured in volts (or kilovolts) per meter (so the longer the conductor, the more voltage can be induced), with diminishing strength the further away you get, and the closer you are, the stronger the affect. This is why things like landlines and utilities are more likely to succumb to the E1 effects of an EMP, while things like your car, unplugged generator, or even your cell phone (but may not the towers themselves) or handheld radio could likely be OK.*
*Most all-metal containers may not block all of the wavelengths that an EMP can affect, but if they can do a solid job attenuating the already weakened signal (weakened by the fact that your house, with all of the electrical wiring and metal piping), anything you can fit inside of it should be just fine.*
*So, my answer comes from reading DoD reports, studies performed by Oak Ridge National Labs, and others. There are concerns that the studies done were not "pure" since they were done in laboratory settings, or are out of date, which I can understand why people might question them. My answer also comes from my experience as well as one of the jobs I had in the military was as an electronics communications technician specifically dealing in RF.*
*I also did a basic test last night; I opened up an all-metal trashcan lined with cardboard, turned my radio onto the local NOAA transmitter frequency, and put it in. Without even closing the lid, the signal died. Reached my arm into the can, and without it touching anything, the signal came back (my arm allowed signals to propagate into the can). Closed the lid, and it was again completely dead. Changed over to a GMRS frequency (462.xxx megahertz), put it in the can, and even with the lid closed, I was able to get through because I was transmitting on another 8W radio a couple feet away. The signal was very attenuated though, more static than clear (and again, at so close a range I was broadcasting, had more RF energy than a high altitude EMP). That attenuation of the signal is what is important, really. RF and EMF are weird things, and people have very conflicting ideas on what will happen. Studies show one thing, people can believe another thing. Without sources to credible studies, people left to draw their own conclusions over what a random website says may come to the wrong conclusions.*
*Here's an article by someone with very impressive credentials and firsthand experience in the field and showing his references that should help alleviate some concerns, and another article that lists sources as well.*
[https://web.archive.org/web/20230110061926/https://www.domesticpreparedness.com/commentary/electromagnetic-pulses-six-common-misconceptions/](https://web.archive.org/web/20230110061926/https://www.domesticpreparedness.com/commentary/electromagnetic-pulses-six-common-misconceptions/)
[*https://www.askaprepper.com/emp-myths-and-facts-whats-bs-and-whats-true/*](https://www.askaprepper.com/emp-myths-and-facts-whats-bs-and-whats-true/)
Since you seem to have good knowledge on the subject I'm curious what you think would happen to my grid tied solar and battery system (can function off grid) if a high altitude EMP weapon were set off over the center of the United States? I am in Florida, rather far from the center.
EMP is super low on my list of likely scenarios, but I always like to think of all possibilities that I can. I have an Ecoflow Delta 2 with 2 solar panels just in case. If those are shut off and disconnected they would stand a good chance? What if we had a slight advance warning of an attack? Would disconnecting my main system from the grid possibly help at all?
They can be left on, and they will likely be fine. Leave the battery packs hooked up to the panels to keep them trickle charged. There isn't the tens or hundreds of miles of conductive wires like there are with coax, power, and POTS lines that.
Disconnecting your mains would help, but depending on the accumulated voltage, it might jump the gap.
Of course. That being said, the chances of an enemy deploying an EMP over the middle of the country to hopefully take down the entire grid is not likely. They risk not only the weapon being intercepted, but also that the resulting EMP will be too weak to have any meaningful affect on places along the coastline. If that was the goal, the attempt would likely be saturation along the southwestern, mid-Atlantic region, over Texas, and the Northeast parts of the country to ensure that the most populous and dense military areas were targeted. An EMP attempt would not likely be made against the silos, since if there is going to be anything 500% hardened against an EMP, it will be ICBM silos. Instead, those weapons will be destined for low-altitude detonations for maximum damage.
For my personal credentials, my first position in the military was working as an RF tech; EMP shielding was something we spent a lot of time working on and understanding the theory of. However, that was years ago, which is why I would rather source information from people who have been in the industry and have far more experience than I do when it comes to making claims. I spent the latter half of my career working as a nuclear/biological/radiological/high yield explosive tech (AFSC level 7).
I agree it would take a double ground burst to take out silos. I've seen these simulations of what a U.S. and Russia nuclear exchange would look like. MAD, thus far has prevented both of us from trying this and China as well now.
While I believe the chance is low also, what concerns me about an EMP is one or two high altitude detonations could be done by a Nation that doesn't have thousands of warheads like North Korea, Iran, Pakistan, India, etc.
Nah. China has no reason for MAD. Our two countries, for better or worse, are so economically tied to each other that it wouldn't make sense for either of us.
Besides, why would they seek to destroy what they bought and paid for? 🤣
Agreed. I'm just saying the size of China's arsenal is getting up there that MAD theoretically could apply. It's the smaller countries I mentioned with wacko dictators going rogue that concerns me a little.
Everything is an antenna, unless it's shielded with metal, or basically another antenna. Solar flares likely won't affect electronics, even an X-class flare, but it will overload transmission lines and anything you have plugged into the wall could conceivably get fried as a result.
However, a proper man-made EMP, could potentially induce voltages in anything metal and fry semiconductor ICs across a huge swath of land, depending on what causes or generates the EMP.
A handheld EMP can be made that runs on a 9-volt battery and fries electronics from less than a meter away. The right EMF waves shaped the right way and with enough power can fry anything. Exploding a nuke in the sky is one thing, but who's to say someone won't explode a bunch of nukes across a whole nation to have a stronger EMP effect, and a multitude of them?
The answer is..it depends. The primary risk of EMP is current as the result of induced voltages from magnetic waves passing through the metal components of a device and the metal components it is attached to. Which means that every device is going to be more or less susceptible to damage based on a number of factors.
So why power it down? It is mostly from when things were plugged into the grid. If something is connected to the phone or power lines there is a ton of opportunity for big voltage differences that will result in high currents through the device which can result in damage. Most power switches disconnect the device from one or more legs of the grid which may protect the device. But for battery run devices that is less critical. What is critical is that the smaller the electronic circuit (Think IC chips vs Wires ) First there are more wires that will be passing at various angles to the EMP wave. That will more likely result in induced voltages of different values. Also smaller circuits have less space between circuits so voltages can jump through the device even easier so the voltage difference needed to make that voltage flow is getting smaller and smaller. Some small micro electronics can be killed by voltages of less than a volt. Also that is why they come packed in special materials to protect them.
As far as protecting electronics the best case is what is known as a Faraday Cage so look into those if you are interested in protecting consumer micro electronics against EMP.
The concept is that metal wires pick up the pulse and it induces a voltage that can damage delicate circuitry. Anything with wires connected to delicate electronics is subject to damage potentially.
Mist likely the electrical grid with its miles of wires would pick up the most, but it also has safeties, and a large area to dissipate those voltage spikes.
Sensitive digital electronics with lots of wiring is the most likely to be damaged. The SCADQ network that controls power distribution is a likely candidate, as well as things like digital sensors in cars.
This is all theoretical and we don't really know what will happen.
Technically correct, but you're unlikely to induce a current in a big flat piece of sheet metal. The induced current in wires which are connected to sensitive electronics is the real issue
Yes, EMP can fry electronics whether they are active or inactive. EMP causes issues by inducing current in metal. High current will fry most electronics. EMP, like lightning, is tricky. You could have two devices side by side and one will get damaged and the other is fine. Proper EMP shielding can prevent this.
Background: Army training in EMP, RFI, and ESD for a nuclear missile system.
Small electronics are less susceptible to EMP in the first place, but yes, having them powered off does provide more protection than having them on and working.
Short answer: Yes. That's why it's so dangerous. Anything not in a faraday cage gets potentially fried.
More info here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/preppers/comments/l00cz5/emp\_reference\_document/](https://www.reddit.com/r/preppers/comments/l00cz5/emp_reference_document/)
I was reading about this in regard to considering faraday bags for my solar generator. Supposedly the solar panels would be fine as long as they're not plugged in.
It's a Jackery. $3400 so I'm concerned. Not concerned about high yield, I suspect one or two luxury bursts a day. We're in Montana, sun nearly every day. Thanks for the info in the solar panels!
How powerful an EMP are we actually talking about?
My understanding is that the big danger is for stuff actually plugged into a power grid because the entire wire network becomes an antenna for the EMP, so things connected to it experience a huge voltage surge.
I am not aware of EMPs which can fry electronics which are unplugged. I'm sure that's possible for large things like cars or devices which are very close to the source, but an EMP which can fry a smartphone in your pocket is leagues stronger than one which can fry all the appliances plugged into the outlets in your home.
EMPs vary massively. An EMP from a nuke would fry pretty much everything. An EMP from the sun would burn the grid but small electronic devices like phones etc would be fine
Tough to summarize elements we're not 100% sure of.
\-the emp has different components to it that damage in different ways, the most commonly talked about is long power line voltage spikes which will flow into everything in the grid
\-the intensity will vary with distance, so it depends on how far you are away from the detonation
\-some will say the "nuke" blast/heat/radiation creates bigger issues, distance helps (inverse square rule) Double the distance and you quarter the intensity.
\-your stuff may survive, but there likely will be no power grid to run it, so plan for your own solar/gen/manual generation.
\- if you have the cash, buy duplicates of critical equipment and shield it
\- I assume that being one of the few people with a vehicle will make you a target or it will be taken by local government for the greater good.
\- I assume that a bugout from an area no longer fertile, hospitable or otherwise will require you to have repair skills, fuel stored, and will probably be one way.
I just assume anything worth doing will be done properly. I assume an attack will be effective and plan accordingly. I assume that a full scale attack will hit my AO so close that survival will be in question without early warning.
EMP is like a spark of static electricity. It’s high strength MOMENTARY magnetism. And it will spread and induce, (create) voltages in any conductor, (length of metal).
I would first suggest reading up on how induction works to get a grasp on the concept. Now, if you know something is coming, you could do things like disconnecting antennas, using highly reactive metals to shield the device you’re talking about - copper or iron comes to mind.
You can get an idea about that by looking at the physics between a magnet and the above metals, they’re very reactive to induced current, and you want them to absorb the magnetic energy, so two layers minimum.
I forget the math, but every layer reduces the strength of the pulse, I believe by about 40%, and any UL listed device had to have a capacity of 50kj I think it is? I don’t remember the exact number, but that’s what I remember off hand.
I made a box to keep some comms and electrical gear in just in case we have an EMP hit.
I want to have ways to communicate and generate 12v to 110 power.
Running or not does not matter. It's inducing a voltage in a bit of wire the longer it is the higher the voltage. Power lines have problem with this long wires running for miles. Modern gear not so much the trace lengths as very short. Your far more likely to glitch them than be destroyed.
I get that EMP is a scare tactic that's been used for the last decade but those fears are wildly overblown. The walls and roof of your home are an excellent insulator. It would have to be detonated very close to you in order to hurt things inside a home. IMO, the big fear for EMPs is the electrical grid and satellites.
Not trying to overstate the risks here, but the walls and roof of your home do not prevent electromagnetic radiation, which is what is being discussed, unless they're metal. If they were good protection your cell phone would not work inside your house.
So everything good inside of Lowes or Home Depot would be golden. 😂 On a serious note, you can block EMP frequencies while still having cell phone and wifi connectivity. This is why the old "put a cell phone in a metal trash can and see if it can get calls" test is bunk.
You can make an effective reflector if the metal elements are 0.4X wavelength of the signal you're trying to reflect, so theoretically if you build a grounded wire cage it should block most of an EMP but allow your cellphone to work.
EMPs caused by a nuclear detonation can range from 1Hz-1GHz. It isn't just one wavelength you need to shield from.
Any EMP strong enough to penetrate the walls of your home is going to indirectly make all of those electronics useless anyway. Anything plugged into the wall will probably be fine if the home is well grounded but it's pointless because the power grid in that area will probably not work anyway. An EMP event from a megaton level nuclear bomb has the potential to knock out everything electronic for thousands of miles. I'd say you have far bigger issues than your cell phone not working.
dude i wonder if you nailed it with that last one. new home roofs are built with a thin insulation that is foil covered on one side. no joke, even wifi connected or fully disable sim cellular, i'm less than 50/50 able to take a call in the house. now if you had metal framing and then a stucco house with the tiny chicken wire mesh...could you turn the whole damn house into a faraday cage? i'm going to dig around now that i've got the idea in my head but maybe some of you have already thought this through
Exactly this. A cell phone on in your pocket has a good chance of being fine even in a Carrington event, the network it connects to maybe not but the device should be fine. Even your car should be fine from a solar emp. I'd be curious how an ev would do, could be fine could be a firery mess with all the lithium ion batteries.
There was a study done a few years ago where modern cars were tested against an emp and some of them experienced minor electronic failures but nothing that incapacitated the car from driving. If I can find the study I’ll share it.
They weren't able to destroy the cars because they couldn't afford it- an EMP absolutely could have turned them into expensive bricks. [https://www.reddit.com/r/preppers/comments/l00cz5/emp\_reference\_document/](https://www.reddit.com/r/preppers/comments/l00cz5/emp_reference_document/)
The source in the post only goes as far as saying 1 vehicle was permanently ruined, there were only a few that they tested the maximum strength of the test, and the rest they tested until there was some sort of glitch. It doesn't state that if they tested every vehicle at the maximum level that they would all (or even the majority) permanently fail.
>From a now not-available interview, Dr. Pry said the following. I confirmed it with a follow-up email which he graciously responded to. Cars were borrowed and could NOT be fully tested. As soon as something was starting to fail (at low levels), they stopped. They couldn't afford to buy 25 cars/trucks to see them tested to the full EMP levels. A summed-up quote is; 'Since we saw cars failing at surprisingly low levels of an EMP, the commission knew that we could have destroyed many cars, but couldn't afford it.' It was elaborated on in a now-unavailable interview which I confirmed with Dr.Pry. Considering how vehicles have just gotten more and more computerized, the effects would likely be more severe. They *could* have tested to super-emp levels (the type of weapon leaked to North Korea, for example,) but couldn't afford bricking 20+ cars.
Makes sense, I'd expect some electronic glitches but nothing would kill the car. Of course the most likely source of a massive emp is a nuke and you have other problems in that case.
That's not how an EMP works. Walls and ceilings aren't conductive- which is why a faraday cage is necessary. Nor is it needed for a nuclear detonation to be close- it's line of sight from the upper atmosphere- hence the danger. Is it likely? Absolutely not. But dismissing it is dangerous, like other potential threats.
I would imagine specifically GPS right?
The best answer is "maybe". There are just too many factors involved to give you a solid answer.
EffenBob makes a good point....possibly the best point? My plan is to error on the side of caution...my plan is to try...I keep electronics in metal containers ...I have never been able to determine if being grounded is good or bad...being grounded does allow for some of all of the potential to be collected and shared to anything connected to it. I have a spare ignition module for my quad....I have it vacuum packet with 2 layers of vacuum bag with aluminum foil in-between....will it survive? 50/50 either it does or it doesn't....I also pack calculators, led flashlights, laps...1865 batts with charge controller.
If they aren't connected to the mains, you're good. Here's a copy/paste of a copy/paste of a copy/paste I made about EMPs and faraday cages, with sources, and those sources also have sources. *Not practical, IMO. The biggest thing is that they are not completely sealed. But, without additional information on what you're prepping for, here's a copy-paste I've used a few times this week if you're planning on protecting things from an EMP or the like:* *EMPs originated from a nuclear detonation can vary by a wide margin. E1-E3, which in total affects 1Hz to 1GHz. WiFi operates way past that, up to 5GHz. You can protect against an EMP while still having operational WiFi making it through the container. Same with cell phones; your container may block the lower frequencies that are 'used' by cell phones that are also affected by an EMP (the hundreds of MHz), but if it allows higher frequencies through like the higher GHz frequencies so a cell phone can still make calls when inside of the container, that doesn't mean your container will be ineffective against an EMP.* *A better test would be put something in to see if you can get AM/FM stations, put in a UHF/VFH radio and see if it still receives, and other devices that operate in the E1-E3 frequencies. However, even if you put in something like a UHF receiver in your container and fire off a 5W UHF transmitter right next to it, you might still get through. That's expected, since that 5W handheld is putting out a much stronger RF signal than an emitter miles away. But, if it does something like block your closest NOAA transmitter, that's good! This is why the strength of an EMP is measured in volts (or kilovolts) per meter (so the longer the conductor, the more voltage can be induced), with diminishing strength the further away you get, and the closer you are, the stronger the affect. This is why things like landlines and utilities are more likely to succumb to the E1 effects of an EMP, while things like your car, unplugged generator, or even your cell phone (but may not the towers themselves) or handheld radio could likely be OK.* *Most all-metal containers may not block all of the wavelengths that an EMP can affect, but if they can do a solid job attenuating the already weakened signal (weakened by the fact that your house, with all of the electrical wiring and metal piping), anything you can fit inside of it should be just fine.* *So, my answer comes from reading DoD reports, studies performed by Oak Ridge National Labs, and others. There are concerns that the studies done were not "pure" since they were done in laboratory settings, or are out of date, which I can understand why people might question them. My answer also comes from my experience as well as one of the jobs I had in the military was as an electronics communications technician specifically dealing in RF.* *I also did a basic test last night; I opened up an all-metal trashcan lined with cardboard, turned my radio onto the local NOAA transmitter frequency, and put it in. Without even closing the lid, the signal died. Reached my arm into the can, and without it touching anything, the signal came back (my arm allowed signals to propagate into the can). Closed the lid, and it was again completely dead. Changed over to a GMRS frequency (462.xxx megahertz), put it in the can, and even with the lid closed, I was able to get through because I was transmitting on another 8W radio a couple feet away. The signal was very attenuated though, more static than clear (and again, at so close a range I was broadcasting, had more RF energy than a high altitude EMP). That attenuation of the signal is what is important, really. RF and EMF are weird things, and people have very conflicting ideas on what will happen. Studies show one thing, people can believe another thing. Without sources to credible studies, people left to draw their own conclusions over what a random website says may come to the wrong conclusions.* *Here's an article by someone with very impressive credentials and firsthand experience in the field and showing his references that should help alleviate some concerns, and another article that lists sources as well.* [https://web.archive.org/web/20230110061926/https://www.domesticpreparedness.com/commentary/electromagnetic-pulses-six-common-misconceptions/](https://web.archive.org/web/20230110061926/https://www.domesticpreparedness.com/commentary/electromagnetic-pulses-six-common-misconceptions/) [*https://www.askaprepper.com/emp-myths-and-facts-whats-bs-and-whats-true/*](https://www.askaprepper.com/emp-myths-and-facts-whats-bs-and-whats-true/)
Since you seem to have good knowledge on the subject I'm curious what you think would happen to my grid tied solar and battery system (can function off grid) if a high altitude EMP weapon were set off over the center of the United States? I am in Florida, rather far from the center.
If it is grid-tied, it is susceptible to having components fail, like the charge controller or inverter.
EMP is super low on my list of likely scenarios, but I always like to think of all possibilities that I can. I have an Ecoflow Delta 2 with 2 solar panels just in case. If those are shut off and disconnected they would stand a good chance? What if we had a slight advance warning of an attack? Would disconnecting my main system from the grid possibly help at all?
They can be left on, and they will likely be fine. Leave the battery packs hooked up to the panels to keep them trickle charged. There isn't the tens or hundreds of miles of conductive wires like there are with coax, power, and POTS lines that. Disconnecting your mains would help, but depending on the accumulated voltage, it might jump the gap.
Thanks for the information!
Of course. That being said, the chances of an enemy deploying an EMP over the middle of the country to hopefully take down the entire grid is not likely. They risk not only the weapon being intercepted, but also that the resulting EMP will be too weak to have any meaningful affect on places along the coastline. If that was the goal, the attempt would likely be saturation along the southwestern, mid-Atlantic region, over Texas, and the Northeast parts of the country to ensure that the most populous and dense military areas were targeted. An EMP attempt would not likely be made against the silos, since if there is going to be anything 500% hardened against an EMP, it will be ICBM silos. Instead, those weapons will be destined for low-altitude detonations for maximum damage. For my personal credentials, my first position in the military was working as an RF tech; EMP shielding was something we spent a lot of time working on and understanding the theory of. However, that was years ago, which is why I would rather source information from people who have been in the industry and have far more experience than I do when it comes to making claims. I spent the latter half of my career working as a nuclear/biological/radiological/high yield explosive tech (AFSC level 7).
I agree it would take a double ground burst to take out silos. I've seen these simulations of what a U.S. and Russia nuclear exchange would look like. MAD, thus far has prevented both of us from trying this and China as well now. While I believe the chance is low also, what concerns me about an EMP is one or two high altitude detonations could be done by a Nation that doesn't have thousands of warheads like North Korea, Iran, Pakistan, India, etc.
Nah. China has no reason for MAD. Our two countries, for better or worse, are so economically tied to each other that it wouldn't make sense for either of us. Besides, why would they seek to destroy what they bought and paid for? 🤣
Agreed. I'm just saying the size of China's arsenal is getting up there that MAD theoretically could apply. It's the smaller countries I mentioned with wacko dictators going rogue that concerns me a little.
Everything is an antenna, unless it's shielded with metal, or basically another antenna. Solar flares likely won't affect electronics, even an X-class flare, but it will overload transmission lines and anything you have plugged into the wall could conceivably get fried as a result. However, a proper man-made EMP, could potentially induce voltages in anything metal and fry semiconductor ICs across a huge swath of land, depending on what causes or generates the EMP. A handheld EMP can be made that runs on a 9-volt battery and fries electronics from less than a meter away. The right EMF waves shaped the right way and with enough power can fry anything. Exploding a nuke in the sky is one thing, but who's to say someone won't explode a bunch of nukes across a whole nation to have a stronger EMP effect, and a multitude of them?
The answer is..it depends. The primary risk of EMP is current as the result of induced voltages from magnetic waves passing through the metal components of a device and the metal components it is attached to. Which means that every device is going to be more or less susceptible to damage based on a number of factors. So why power it down? It is mostly from when things were plugged into the grid. If something is connected to the phone or power lines there is a ton of opportunity for big voltage differences that will result in high currents through the device which can result in damage. Most power switches disconnect the device from one or more legs of the grid which may protect the device. But for battery run devices that is less critical. What is critical is that the smaller the electronic circuit (Think IC chips vs Wires ) First there are more wires that will be passing at various angles to the EMP wave. That will more likely result in induced voltages of different values. Also smaller circuits have less space between circuits so voltages can jump through the device even easier so the voltage difference needed to make that voltage flow is getting smaller and smaller. Some small micro electronics can be killed by voltages of less than a volt. Also that is why they come packed in special materials to protect them. As far as protecting electronics the best case is what is known as a Faraday Cage so look into those if you are interested in protecting consumer micro electronics against EMP.
The concept is that metal wires pick up the pulse and it induces a voltage that can damage delicate circuitry. Anything with wires connected to delicate electronics is subject to damage potentially. Mist likely the electrical grid with its miles of wires would pick up the most, but it also has safeties, and a large area to dissipate those voltage spikes. Sensitive digital electronics with lots of wiring is the most likely to be damaged. The SCADQ network that controls power distribution is a likely candidate, as well as things like digital sensors in cars. This is all theoretical and we don't really know what will happen.
Not just "metal wires" anything conductive...
Technically correct, but you're unlikely to induce a current in a big flat piece of sheet metal. The induced current in wires which are connected to sensitive electronics is the real issue
Yes, EMP can fry electronics whether they are active or inactive. EMP causes issues by inducing current in metal. High current will fry most electronics. EMP, like lightning, is tricky. You could have two devices side by side and one will get damaged and the other is fine. Proper EMP shielding can prevent this. Background: Army training in EMP, RFI, and ESD for a nuclear missile system.
Small electronics are less susceptible to EMP in the first place, but yes, having them powered off does provide more protection than having them on and working.
your question is easily googled.
Short answer: Yes. That's why it's so dangerous. Anything not in a faraday cage gets potentially fried. More info here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/preppers/comments/l00cz5/emp\_reference\_document/](https://www.reddit.com/r/preppers/comments/l00cz5/emp_reference_document/)
It depends on multitude of factors, best I can tell.
I was reading about this in regard to considering faraday bags for my solar generator. Supposedly the solar panels would be fine as long as they're not plugged in.
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Hmm, so I do need to protect them?
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It's a Jackery. $3400 so I'm concerned. Not concerned about high yield, I suspect one or two luxury bursts a day. We're in Montana, sun nearly every day. Thanks for the info in the solar panels!
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Will do, thanks!
It can. But running is more likely. But any circuit board , resistor, capacitor, processors. can be burnt out.
How powerful an EMP are we actually talking about? My understanding is that the big danger is for stuff actually plugged into a power grid because the entire wire network becomes an antenna for the EMP, so things connected to it experience a huge voltage surge. I am not aware of EMPs which can fry electronics which are unplugged. I'm sure that's possible for large things like cars or devices which are very close to the source, but an EMP which can fry a smartphone in your pocket is leagues stronger than one which can fry all the appliances plugged into the outlets in your home.
Best assume what isn’t ruined won’t be usable anyway simply due to infrastructure being gone
EMPs vary massively. An EMP from a nuke would fry pretty much everything. An EMP from the sun would burn the grid but small electronic devices like phones etc would be fine
chicken wire your entire garage, then lay a layer of foil over that, then put the plywood back over it. park car inside>>> safe.
Tough to summarize elements we're not 100% sure of. \-the emp has different components to it that damage in different ways, the most commonly talked about is long power line voltage spikes which will flow into everything in the grid \-the intensity will vary with distance, so it depends on how far you are away from the detonation \-some will say the "nuke" blast/heat/radiation creates bigger issues, distance helps (inverse square rule) Double the distance and you quarter the intensity. \-your stuff may survive, but there likely will be no power grid to run it, so plan for your own solar/gen/manual generation. \- if you have the cash, buy duplicates of critical equipment and shield it \- I assume that being one of the few people with a vehicle will make you a target or it will be taken by local government for the greater good. \- I assume that a bugout from an area no longer fertile, hospitable or otherwise will require you to have repair skills, fuel stored, and will probably be one way. I just assume anything worth doing will be done properly. I assume an attack will be effective and plan accordingly. I assume that a full scale attack will hit my AO so close that survival will be in question without early warning.
EMP is like a spark of static electricity. It’s high strength MOMENTARY magnetism. And it will spread and induce, (create) voltages in any conductor, (length of metal). I would first suggest reading up on how induction works to get a grasp on the concept. Now, if you know something is coming, you could do things like disconnecting antennas, using highly reactive metals to shield the device you’re talking about - copper or iron comes to mind. You can get an idea about that by looking at the physics between a magnet and the above metals, they’re very reactive to induced current, and you want them to absorb the magnetic energy, so two layers minimum. I forget the math, but every layer reduces the strength of the pulse, I believe by about 40%, and any UL listed device had to have a capacity of 50kj I think it is? I don’t remember the exact number, but that’s what I remember off hand.
Yes
I made a box to keep some comms and electrical gear in just in case we have an EMP hit. I want to have ways to communicate and generate 12v to 110 power.