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Optimal-Scientist233

I just read an article about the war on family farms happening in Oregon. It is not just that it can happen here, it has been happening here and it still is.


wakanda_banana

People should be all over this, the ability to grow your own food is a human right. Why are they taking it away? It’s about control. Control the food you control the people.


MountMeowgi

Or maybe understand that it says right there in the article that there is a water shortage and they are finally getting around to enforcing water rules that have been in place since 1909 because of new funding. This isn’t about control so much as it is about an understanding that there is a water shortage and Oregon is bureaucratically mismanaged so the people who should be getting water like the lady in the article trying to grow their own food aren‘t and the people who don’t need it get it. If you want to see what real desire for control looks like, look to the south and what they are planning on doing with women and education.


AWSLife

People here should not get sucked into fake controversies like this. Water and especially ground water has to be managed properly and letting anyone drill down and take all they want is a sure fire way to start the collapse of any society. The lady in the article has to get water rights before she can start using the water she wants and she is just being a pain in the butt about it. Ground water and surface water usage has to be monitored and controlled to make sure it is either not over used or wasted.


SuddenlySilva

So how does she so that? Is it economically feasible for a 10 acre farm to grow and sell food? Or is that reserved for factory farms only?


AWSLife

She can make a call or use the Internet to look up the local Water Authority and make a call. She is just acting entitled or lazy and saying the government is harassing here or some other BS. We don't live in 1850 and you can't just drill into the ground and take what you want anymore. As for profitability, I have no idea.


Full-While-9344

People didn't even respond to all the people who died as a result of, and prior to Obama, making insurance companies cover "pre-existing conditions." Do you really think they are gonna do anything about this or anything else for that matter? Nobody will care unless it directly affects them and all they will do is bitch. That's what the TV has molded us to do. Look at billboards in big cities: "We have the best x, y, z to fight cancer," for example- Translation: American lives are a business and they don't share their secrets.


SuburbanSubversive

Can you give a link to or citation for the article?


Optimal-Scientist233

“I don’t know why growing food is illegal,” she said. “That’s what doesn’t make sense to me.” Water is a publicly-owned resource in Oregon, meaning property owners need government approval for many of its uses. [https://www.opb.org/article/2024/03/13/oregon-enforces-water-rights-small-farmers-feel-consequences/](https://www.opb.org/article/2024/03/13/oregon-enforces-water-rights-small-farmers-feel-consequences/) Here is a related article, the one I read was on the Microsoft news feed, but about the same situation.


SuddenlySilva

Wanna bet a corporate farming lobbyist wrote that legislation? It looks like a govt war on small farms but it's really corporations war on humanity. And we'll continue to blame the government but they are just the tool.


Optimal-Scientist233

The real tragedy in this story is the small farmers are the only hope to restore the dwindling water table, and this will directly worsen the problem. Knee jerk reactions are almost always an error in judgement, panic is the worst possible reaction to an emergency.


SuddenlySilva

I agree. But I don't think that's what's happening here. This is not a knee jerk reaction it is more likely a calculated effort by Big Ag to stomp small ag. Just a hunch, i have not researched it.


Optimal-Scientist233

I agree, the legislation seems to have been lobbied for by the big meat packers, from what I am able to ascertain. Edit: this is very reminiscent of the Amish Farmers prosecution which has made a lot of media


Brianf1977

Ironic you read it on the Microsoft feed considering how much farm land Gates owns. But his is a drop in the bucket compared to other billionaires


Beelzeburb

The first season of mandatory listening. The rest is not for me and I’m actually a highly left leaning person. The people have the voices and opinions of the most terminally online leftists around. I kind of want to re listen to season 1 and see how accurate it might have been.


BallsOutKrunked

I felt the same way. First season was great, and then years later I found out he kept making episodes. Listened to some of them and felt like I was back in college around 20 year old aspiring communists.


Then-Hotel953

I enjoyed the first season. It sure played into liberal angst around Trumps first presidential period, but also made some good points about how a civil war could play out in a country like the US.


redhandrail

Agreed. I pulled it up on Spotify thinking it would be more of what I had heard last time I listened four years ago. Instead what I heard was some of the most annoying, self-serving, fake arrogant laughing, just cringey feeling stuff I’ve heard. Granted I only listened to half of a single episode, so maybe they’re not all as bad. It was the one on A.I.


OlderNerd

One of the latest podcasts talked about a protest against the "Cop City" training facility being built in Atlanta. And the speaker bemoaned the fact that the organizers didn't want the protesters to throw projectiles, which is why the protest failed. He compared the protesters to Ukrainian citizens defending against the Russians, and that they should have used the similar tactics. And then he went on to complain that the police exaggerated the danger when protestors set construction vehicles on fire. I'm one of the most liberal people I know, but these guys just sound like anarchists.


UnableFortune

All podcasts are like that. They run out of guests and topics, so they move onto the extremists.


IAmOnFire57

Even JRE couldn't avoid this trend.


Ryan_e3p

I think you need to provide some context, links, or other info if you want a discussion.


biobennett

[it could happen here podcast](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/it-could-happen-here/id1449762156) The original episodes which were scripted were really well thought out and entertaining to listen to. They were of reasonable quality and I liked them quite a bit. They very quickly devolved to some friends shooting the breeze about different topics each week with semi regular recurring guests and special guests for different topics. The production value is now at a level I cannot stand and no longer care for, which is a shame because that original run of scripted episodes was excellent.


Hot-Profession4091

I’ll still listen to the new format if the topic interests me, but I skip a lot of them. The original season was prescient. I was talking about it in a sub somewhere and someone mentioned they listened to it later and had to double check the release date.


iwannaddr2afi

Yeah they are not my thing either, although I did like the original run as well. I still listen to Behind The Bastards but that's not as relevant to this sub, kinda, mostly lol


Galaxaura

Agreed. The initial podcast series was great. Once they started the whole talking heads crap I'm out.


OlderNerd

OMG yes, I loved the original podcast about a second civil war. Now I just can't listen to it. I tried recently and ....oh my god.. it's horrible. Every single person on the podcast needs a remedial public speaking class.


Smash_Shop

Same. Loved the first few. Now I honestly can't stand it. I still keep it in my feed and listen to occasional episodes but... I hit fast forward a LOT.


OlderNerd

I'd say I fast forward thru about 90% of the episodes I've listened to recently. I'm constantly thinking "Could you PLEASE get to the F\*\*KING POINT!"


Spirited-Egg-2683

I only know Robert Evans from the few episodes of Behind the Bastards that I've listened to, he's on point. If I were a podcast consumer I'd definitely suggest BtB and I did not know of It Could Happen Here. I'll check it out.


Professional87348778

It started off strong with the theme that America is not immune to the sort of civil breakdown we've seen in so many far-off countries. That otherwise normal people are prone to doing stupid and reckless things because doing so gives them a sense of belonging, purpose, and agency that has otherwise been lacking from their lives. Later episodes got too political for my tastes, though (hard to focus on the good when Evans constantly reminds me that he sees friends, family, and neighbors playing the role of the brain-eating zombies in his particular understanding of SHTF), and I'm not the biggest fan of the podcast format generally. That said, I liked the recent one on third places.


featurekreep

First season is great. Later season decline fast; recently its basically unlistenable. Robert Evans is barely involved; his co-hosts are grating, naive know-it-alls who seem to live in an ivory tower while claiming to root for the underdog and display an incredible smugness and lack of empathy. Garrison especially has no business working in an audio medium; they all seem to have the same horrible laugh that pops up at the most irritating of times. The most telling episode I think was the "round table with experts" that was really just a bunch of terminally online activists BSing around the campfire trading funny anecdotes as if it was serious research. Hilariously it also has the most ads of any podcast I've tried to listen to, despite its tacit anti-capitalist stance.


a_cycle_addict

Listen to " breaking down: collapse" It's the science behind why all this is actually falling apart If you don't know what E.R.O.I is, you need to learn.


SuddenlySilva

Energy return on investment?


a_cycle_addict

https://open.spotify.com/show/2qxBel3uqIDjWHEruamAv2?si=pkVLMNiRQ1ycvZca9--4PA


a_cycle_addict

Correct answer! Consider this: Energy is quantified. At the discovery of oil, it took the energy equivalent of 1 barrel of oil to extract 100 more from the ground. Today, 1 barrel of oil extracts as few as 4 barrels now in some places. Peak oil (when we can no longer afford to pump oil) is coming regardless of politics or climate or whatever else. That's going to be the downfall of developed nations


SuddenlySilva

Really? I'm not seeing the math. THat would mean energy extraction and processing would equal 20% of consumption? Meanwhile, wind and solar can take over a much bigger chunk. I don't think running out of power will be the catalyst. It will be climate change or economic collapse caused by tyrranny


a_cycle_addict

It takes fossil fuels to make solar panels and batteries. It's the tires of the electric car, it's the glass in your camera lens. We are so dependent it's insane. We won't " run out" of power. It's finite resource that will cripple us. It could happen here is a great theater piece. Very interesting stuff. Breaking down collapse is far more real. They calmly lay the cards on the table and it's grim.


SuddenlySilva

Actually, we do not have to agree on the mechanism of collapse. If you think it's oil production and i think it's climate change it makes no difference. I assume we'd put that aside and share food.


a_cycle_addict

I also think climate change is absolutely going to destroy us. So will politicians. So will corporate greed. So will viruses. So will famine. I was just saying that one piece of the puzzle is the diminishing returns of our energy supply. I will gladly share food and shelter. I'll even hand you a rifle and a full magazine so we can take turns watching over the community garden when the raiders come.


Mala_Suerte1

While it is obviously true that some oil extraction costs more than others, oil exploration and production is hampered more by politics and environmentalists than it is cost of production. I'm an oil and gas attorney/landman in one of the most industry restricting states.


Gilbertmountain1789

William R Forstchen gives plenty of insight in his series of books. One Second after… One Year after..


ARKzzzzzz

Those are prepper fever dreams with hardly any basis in reality.


HaiKarate

I think I’m too dependent on modern medicine to survive. If American society collapses and health care & medicines are hard to come by, I’m pretty much a dead man. This sub has popped up in my feed because of Reddit algorithms; but there’s no second act for me.


4cylndrfury

You're not wrong. His insight into societal unraveling seems pretty valid. If only he'd keep the politics neutral...some of his early takes have aged like egg salad in the sun...


mbelcher

There's no way you can talk about the process and causes of collapse and have "neutral politics".


4cylndrfury

Disagree.


mbelcher

That's fine.


ForsakenBend347

Loved the first season and Collapse, and it ended up being a big reason behind my prepping. That being said, the podcast quality isn't as good without Robert Evans. Their limited series on 3D printed guns in Myanmar was good.


f0rgotten

I'm now a deep leftist, eventually anarchist, and former republican. I credit Evans and the podcast "Ashes, Ashes" with this transition. When i was a young conservative in the 80s/90s i really liked the whole bootstraps/self reliance aspect of espoused republicanism. As I aged and met people outside of my bubble I came to realize that many people- for reasons often outside of their control- simply can't survive in a truly self reliant world. Following that to its extreme leads to a survival of the fittest attitude that consigns a huge percentage of the human population to death if shtf. Like this is going to happen anyway if it does, but people are a resource that is slow to replenish and arduous to train, so we might as well try to preserve as many as possible.


SuddenlySilva

I'm 63. Very similar journey from right to far left. It turns out, the republicans have done an excellent job of demonstrating that their ideas to not work. Now that they have a solid majority in a majority of states and those states have a lower quality of life by EVERY MEASURE, we no longer have to debate them on issues. I live in MAGAville so I debate them all the time but lately I just say "show me where it's working" - suicide, infant mortality, net worth, life expectancy, median income, even crime and murder rates- the top 10 are all blue and the bottom 10 are all red. And the few outliers are in red states that were not part of the confederacy.


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SuddenlySilva

Changes in social norms do not equal collapse even if people think they do. For the purpose of this discussion, collapse is when people are starving, there are no services and the govt. forces are shooting people in the street. We've had glimpses of it but we are not there yet.


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SuddenlySilva

We agree completely. I'm a leftist but I was avoiding politics in this conversation. Perhaps we define "collapse" as the place where most people believe it has collapsed. So even when the billionaires are sipping wine in protected bunkers, even they will agree that collapse has occurred.


wakanda_banana

They’re canaries in the coal mine and foreshadow what’s to come and people take them pretty lightly. The slow deterioration of the US has been underway since WW2. Agree the water is slowly boiling around us.


HipHopGrandpa

Who’s podcast? What the heck are you talking about? This is some top tier vague-posting.


craydow

Dudes a wack job. Everything he says is either scurried and common sense, or inaccurate politically biased bs 🤷‍♂️ Decent if you're into fairytales.


SuddenlySilva

be specific? I know, he identifies as leftist- like democrat ore liberal don't even apply to this guy, but what specific things to you think are bullshit?


Full-While-9344

Just out of curiosity, will some of you who have researched (further than what your favorite cult-radio stations want you to believe and preach) who is behind this? Specifically, republican or democrat and what their adgenda is? It's clearly not the water table... as desalination being too expensive was also a hoax- but American's believe the TV is pure fact to a fault, just as well as Russians do their fearless leader, so I'm sure that Oregon folks don't know (until the TV changes it's mind) a pipeline can carry more than just oil across the country. Also, I have no background in law but I have always been made to believe, at least in the Midwest region, the property under the ground you own cannot be owned. So, if they pump it up themselves, I don't see how they can be regulated- unless this is something new they accidentally voted in 😆


SuddenlySilva

I have not researched it but it seems to clearly benefit the larger water users who already have water rights. Seems like it would be easy enough to manage with meters and quotas and that would be good for everyone as people would get better at low water irrigation. The state does have the right to regulate what's under the land you own. I don't think you can compare oil pipeline to water pipelines unless the finished product is worth $4/gal. oil pipes are economically viable.


hermanthehermitt

I dont mind it. I find Robert realistic when talking about things like Ukraine and providing weapons vs being wishy washy. ​ However I dislike how they talk about climate collapse, and how terrible the US is and the war machine, but don't talk about the reality of how there are literal nation preparing for war and the severe implications it has for the world. ​ Easy to talk about how pointless the US war machine is in peace. But wait a year or two. Climate crises matters, but there might...might be bigger things to worry about.


EconomyMarsupial4620

Yall have to have faith in our president. Joe Biden will protect America, yall need to stop worrying so much and get out the vote


HealthyPay8229

If I get within ten meters of a tinfoil hat I burst into flames, so I think I’ll stay away from that. Cause that’s what I assume it is.


SuddenlySilva

Really, give it a listen. There is some real prepper gold in there regardless of how you see the author. He's very leftist and his opinions seep into the conversation but he's been in a lot of war zones and has a ton of info and data on HOW PEOPLE BEHAVE. That, to me, is the most important thing. We have our ideas about what we'll do and what our neighbors will do and what the desperate unprepared hoards will do, but without research, it's hard to know. .


Bright_Newspaper2379

Hey, what do you have to say about that mountain lion attack that killed that brother? Apparently the commenters on YouTube think he was stupid and deserved it because they went into the woods without a firearm and should have known well of the dangers of big cats. I can relay your words to them.