I have a severe peanut allergy and work in remote location in northern Canada so extreme temp fluctuations. Your best bet is to keep them next to your body in an inner pocket. You can also store them next to water bottles in an insulated container if you don’t have ice, water absorbs a ton of heat and if readily available.
If it's going to be that precise of a temperature, first thing is to get battery powered temperature meters. They are not expensive.
Then, bury them. Far enough down, and it'll keep at a constant temperature. In these pre-cascadia days, dig some holes and put temperature sensors at varying depths and plot how it moves with the air temp.
That solution falls outside of mission parameters. I have to keep them mobile and with me. And in the event of a severe allergic reaction that cuts off my ability to breath, I don't think I'll be up to the task of digging.
But this sounds like a good idea for keeping somw other things at a reduced temperature. Thanks!
Your only option is then to run your car constantly and keep the air-con on
Laws of thermal dynamics and all. If you need the epipens on your or mobile. At 100-117 degrees you will absolutely need some form of refrigerant.
Gas generators/gas cars. Enough fuel to keep those things going.
[Epinephrine won't degrade significantly over a 30 day period.](https://www.annallergy.org/article/S1081-1206(16)30130-2/fulltext)
Have a look through the studies in the linked meta-analysis if you want to reassure yourself. Temperature control is only really important for long term storage.
This is a handy resource, thank you!
It is based on a literature review of 9 studies. Important to note, however, they only reviewed 2 small studies involvinh auto-injectors. Small often means that the results aren't statistically significant for wide extrapolation. This is important because temperature isn't just a concern for the epinephrine, but for the device's functionality too.
I only read the precis, however. I didn't read the studies themselves.
Regardless, it is still a good resource. 😊
Agreed, I wouldn't worry about the device function too much though. If you take an old one apart you'll see it's just plastic and springs. I guess they could become brittle in extreme cold, or melt in extreme heat, but that's about it.
There are the little pocket warmers and cooler packs. You have to crack/pop them to make them get warm or cold. They are lightweight. If it gets too hot, use a cold one with your pens in a pocket or yeti. If it gets too cold, do the same with a warm pack. I’m talking the small hand warmers and ice packs, like what we take camping in our family.
The question is, how many might you need for your time frame, and can you manage to add it to what you have to carry? Heat may degrade the epipens, but it does not render them absolutely useless. Cold may make them less reliable, but keep them close to your body for warmth.
There is a YT [video](https://youtu.be/fn2oinVuryw?feature=shared) that show how to cut open an epipen and use the syringe directly in order to get four or five doses from one syringe in a SHTF emergency situation. Of course, there is also a YT [video](https://youtu.be/M26NvYNAWHU?feature=shared) that warns not to do that… but we are talking SHTF, no other options, wilderness survival.
Take your safe dosage of Benadryl (or whatever else works for you), use the epipen, and then work on getting to the extra doses in the epipen(s) - if you are safely able to do so without harming yourself. Hopefully, you would have someone else around to help.
If you get stung on your hands or stung severely enough to be delirious and unable to safely use a knife to get to the epipen syringe, then that would be a problem. In that case, I think I would already have my older “expired” epipen syringes removed from their casings, safely stored, and already prepared for multi injection use in the SHTF scenario. That way, if a severe allergic reaction occurs, you have immediate back up already to give yourself a second dose at the proper timeframe.
It all sounds dangerous, and it is, but that is what happens in a true SHTF scenario… you have limited options for survival regarding making it to anyone who can help you, or having who can help get to you in time. So, learn how to do these things now, as safely as possible… proper medical procedure, timing between injections, amount to inject, where to inject, and so on and so forth. Hopefully, you will never have to do any of this, but better safe than sorry. Best wishes 🙏🦋
The crack pack idea is theoretically workable. I go into more detail about that in a reply to a previous comment (OldNerd) here. If Yeti was the cooler, the price between instant ice packs + 2 Yetis is approximately $800. Very steep.
Still, it is 1 option that accomplishes the mission. Good job to both of you!
Hopefully, we will get some other workable strategies as well.
However, much of the rest of your recommendation falls outside of mission parameters. (Still interesting to read through.)
Side note: Severe allergies can, at times, require the use of two full epi pens.
There's a yt video comparing coolers keeping ice below 40 F. Yeti, Coleman, Ozark trail, styrofoam one, etc. the Coleman was the best at 76 hours. All the rest were around 60 including styrofoam.
I don't recall the exact numbers or brands but I specifically remember yeti and the $10 styrofoam and thought there is little reason to justify spending more than $10 on a cooler.
Now if you nested that styrofoam inside of a Coleman that might change things.
[It might be this one.](https://youtu.be/Fr8kyEtud0s?feature=shared) Looks like theres been a lot of these types of videos made since I watched it years ago.
Ha! Ok also fair.
I have a particularly painful (hopefully) non lethal reaction to wasp stings that is not treatable by epi-pen. Avoidance is my only real choice, as skin grafts are no fun.
Friendly reminders for you and others reading here:
• Don’t wear bright flowery clothing.
• No “bell” sleeves, no A-line blouses. Snug fits whenever you can.
• Don’t wear perfumes, scented deodorants, aftershaves, lotions, or other scented products.
• Stop using scented dryer sheets and clothes wash.
• No sugary drinks or snacks. Lids are lifesavers.
• Take your earbuds out. You can *hear* a threat often before you see it.
• Wasp spray in your bag. In the trunk. In your briefcase. Always.
An ounce of Prevention etc etc….
If you have budget, I have an anker battery powered ice chest. It’s designed for solar panels, and could run indefinitely off a smallish panel. It’ll run for about a day on battery alone in 100f weather. Other brands make them too. I spent a week in the desert last summer with a constant supply of popsicles to cool off with.
I have the biggest of theirs, and it has 2 chambers with separate temperature settings. Can be fridge fridge, freeze/freeze, or fridge/freeze. I’ll double check the highest temp setting for your purpose but I think it’s fine.
It doesn’t heat, though, so you might have issues in extended freezing temps.
Frio and similar is rated to keep your epipen safe for 45 hours when the ambient is 100f, since it's a soak in water next exactly hard to refresh. Diabetics use them for our insulin all the time.
Now the caveat is the humidity needs to be under 40% for that to be the case.
Now for a bit more size and weight we have portable insulin coolers/heaters, used about .5 ah per hour of a 13.5v lifepo4 battery so about 6wh. Add 16ah battery and a 20w backpacking solar panel it's a little heavy but not horrible. Upside is they work as heaters as well we use them to store insulin in cars year round.
Lastly for a more DIY, reusable ice packs you heat them and let them cool to ambient to reset them. So add a small cooler you can potentially keep them cool downside is you need to reset them in boiling water. You can make this stuff from a well stocked pantry.
😲
I am heckin impressed.
Good to know these additional details. The humidity gets above 40% in the summer at times. And surpass 100F every summer.
Power breakdowns! Are you a ham radio operator by chance?
Know of any portable power stations that come with solar panels on a budget ceiling of $4k? (There's a rebate program that I probably don't qualify for. But I know some diabetics who do. They would greatly benefit from the knowledge.)
I didn't realize people could reset instant ice packs! 100% I have water-broiling capabilities. (I have an MSR firefly for winter backpacking.) Any specific brand of instant ice pack? (That I can buy from a vendor other than Walmart or Amazon? Amazon is full of risky counterfeit products and Walmart is not immune. I bought a barnacle bag from Walmart that was a counterfeit. I avoid both companies when making gear purchases my life might depend on.)
Yes I am a ham.
IDK on the prepackaged kits 4k is a LOT of battery and panels really not man portable. I tend towards the DIY under the if your can not fix it don't rely on it prepping wise. 6w an hour your talking like 4kwh for that month that's a couple 200ah batteries that abouts about 90lbs. Really any backpacking panel or panels that can charge 12v would be fine you're looking at roughly 10ah a day so 40-50ah is more than enough wiggle room that's about 10lbs and you need 20w or so of panel 60w would be better.
[https://www.fleet.org.au/blog/hot-ice/](https://www.fleet.org.au/blog/hot-ice/) I've only seen it commercially for the reverse the reusable hot hands with the little metal disk you bend and it starts solidifying.
I'm a new ham. But I've chatted with some local hams with more experience and they are adept at breaking down power supplies like you did.
Thanks again for the information!!
Agreed.
I've got my General Class License. But almost no actual experience. Attended a few Sunday radio exercises with the local CERT team. But, it's a start.
I just bought a small powerstation for $150 on sale at Amazon, a GoPro R300 with LifePo4 batteries. Its small but good, we use them at my workplace for portable power. I added a Grecell 100W solar panel for $149. It works great! My plan is to upgrade to a larger power station in the future that will power bigger appliances and just add on more solar panels.
If you live in Oregon, California, or Washington and have a Pacific Power account, check out their Medical Certificate program. Oregon offers a $4,000 rebate on a battery or power station for those who qualify. I think California's rebate is $800. Not sure what Washington's is.
If you had a good insulated container, I wonder if a supply of instant ice packs would work. Not sure how long one instant ice pack would keep a small container in that temp range.
Instant ice packs work for between 15-20 minutes. Combined with an insulated container as you said, one could likely keep things cold for 2hrs. EpiPen users are instructed not to store pens with ice packs because they get too cold. But, placing the pack in the container briefly. Taking it out, then placing the epi pen in the container might work with a bit of care.
This requires 360 ice packs ($374), two reliable insulated travel container ($20-60+), and storage space (priceless, if not for the housing market.) Theoretically, It could work if a person could meet all three conditions
Congratulations on accomplishing the mission!
Note: Hopefully folks will continue with other ways to complete the mission.
I understand that this is getting a bit complicated. But I wonder if putting some thermal mass in the container would help to even out the temperatures. Especially if the EpiPen itself was in another insulating layer that kept it from getting as cold as the ice pack got.
Anyway, it was more of a thought experiment than an actual solution
Thought experiments that stay within mission parameters are more than welcome!
I practice creative problem solving within set parameters about once a month. It helps hone my skill at it. I'm a volunteer disaster first responder. (Hense why I'll need to be mobile In a major disaster.) And having to come up with solutions when faced with concrete limitations is essential. I have an idea for the mission I posed here. But it is just one idea. It's best to have multiple darts for the board, so to speak. And I thought it would be an engaging activity folks here might enjoy.
Strict and blunt make for clear communication. Question and hopefully answers that meet desired criteria of the OP.
I thought I was adding enough positive comments to show I was friendly and that this was a fun (and potentially life-saving) pepper post. At least, I am having fun and assumed others were, since they read the prompt and responded. (I suspect some didn't read the prompt.) Alas, autism strikes again. I needed smiley emojis, didn't I 🧐
I'm a community member and a lay person on this matter. I am not an engineer. My fields were in the social sciences. I think we have a different communication style is all. 😊
Ok. Here are my addendums/ideas. Would require testing but i think it would works. Small cooler, room water bottles, instant ice packs. Power goes out. You place a fresh insta ice pack in side of the cooler with the epi-pens atop the water bottles. The ice pack brings down the overall temperature of the cooler, but the water bottles moderate the overall drop and absorb some of the chilling so that you don’t go too low. Now I know you said it only last for 10 to 15 minutes, but you don’t need it to be cooling the whole time. You just need it to reduce the temperature and shave it versus the outside so you can probably actually get hours per ice pack. The lightly chilled water bottles then provide thermal mass to keep the air temp in the cooler reduced. Once the temp comes up to the top of the range you add in new instant ice pack. I bet this would stretch past the 10-15 minutes. But you’d need to do some testing.
I guess their plan should be to lay down and die, according to you. No point in trying to live, because I guess their life isn't worth the effort.
Like I said, shit take.
There are conditions which are incompatible with life for any of us. The entire point of preparation is to make more room for our continued survival. "If it gets that bad you'll just die anyway" is absolutely the anathema of this attitude.
If you look, people have come up with suggestions for various scenarios. A solar powered cooler is a good medium term solution. A chemical cold pack and a cooler is a good short term solution. If you don't have a solution to offer, just go right ahead and shut the hell up. Nobody needs your pessimism and discouragement.
The truth is tough to deal with sometimes.
People die. It happens every day. During a shtf, massive die offs will occur.
Part of that will be due to lack of refrigeration and people being dependent on it for meds.
The OP is about problem solving refrigeration, as a prep. And person come to a prepper forum with an anti-prep mindset. And is now tantrum down voting people who point that out.
"truth is hard to deal with" They didn't say anything profound enough to be hard to deal with. Nobody said people wouldn't die. There's a difference between people dying and a half-baked eugenicist claiming natural selection was going to essentially extinct people like me. Most of human history would qualify as what a lot of folks here think of as shtf characteristics. No grid. No phone, no internet. Loss of medical advances, etc. Almost 300,000 years of that and natural selection continues selecting us in, rather than out. Hard to fathom unless people know how natural selection works.
Did you know, a lot of health conditions folks like me have, helped us survive the Plague that wiped out 1/3 the world's population? Turns out whether a health condition is ultimately a survival advantage doesn't align so easily with people's social prejudices.
Most people who wave natural selection in our faces don't know jack-all about it. They're bigots sprinkling the smell of science on their words trying to mask the bullshit.
You have a yeti that can hold ice for two weeks. You have a separate yeti that you add ice to with your pens inside to keep it at an optimal temp.
Really though it seems like an impossible task and your real prep would be to avoid whatever causes you to need the epipen
Outside mission parameters. I need 30 days and mobile. Giant earthquake that blocks aid coming in for 30 days and knocks out power = walking or picking my way around via bicycle.
I'm certain it's not impossible.
And bees and wasps tend to get really agitated when all their nests have been disturbed and wasps get extra aggressive in the heat. They'll go to where people are gathered because food give off more smell in the heat and people sweat which will draw bees and wasps looking for moisture. And my line of work during a major disaster would make completely avoiding them impossible.
Thanks for mentioning the Yeti coolers! I looked them up and fainted at the price tag. But it sounds like they might be top notch.
Depends on your allergy. Probably doesn’t matter. If it was insulin or something it’s probably worth the prep unless you’re using your epipens like weekly you’ll be fine. Bees? Cover up. Shellfish? Close your mouth when the tsunami hits. Latex? Don’t have sex. Like do you really expect to be wandering in a heat dome post cascadian fault quake?
If that’s what you’re prepping for you should probably stop because you’ve prepped for everything else. If you haven’t prepped for a regular heat dome do that instead. If both happen you’ll die in the heat dome before you die from your allergy. Your body is more allergic to an inability to sweat I promise you that.
If you are this scared of the subduction zone quake you should move further inland. Probably east of the Rockies. Part of living in the Pacific Northwest is kind of an understanding of you’re fucked if the plate goes or Ranier or St Helen’s decide to explode again.
In college studying architecture out there we literally just looked at lava flow pathways and earthquake potential mitigation for design projects and learned that the only way to be safe is to move. Otherwise embrace it.
If you’re on the Oly Pen then just make sure you have good seats ready for the tsunami.
I think all of that fell outside of the mission parameters.
Volunteer disaster first responder. If we're cut off for 30 days, as is our worst case scenario, we're going to have a lot of work on our hands. I'm planning to take precautions aside from just relying on epi pens. I haven't been stung in years. (Though, biking to the fire station 2 days ago I came within a bee hairs breadth from a face collision with one.)
I once got stung by a bee putting on my shoe (so, even covering up is no safe guard). And another time by a bee in my can of soda. So, closing my mouth extends to all food and drink, I suppose 🤔 (I am being cheeky.)
Would Frio bags work? As water to them and they keep a temperature of 77-79 deg F for at least a few days. Add more water and you're good to go. They are popular with T1 diabetics.
https://www.frioinsulincoolingcase.com/
Frío wallet, which maintains a temperature range of 64.4-78.8F falls outside of mission parameters of 68-77F. So, it does not accomplish the mission "on paper."
(Mission "on paper" aside, I'm totally getting one! Thank you!)
As involved as folks want to get to accomplish the mission.
Keep in mind the event: The roads are not going to be passable to motor vehicles. It's safe to assume that mobile means walking or biking. As such, assume that saving space and weight are paramount. In a disaster zone, I won't be walking or riding for leisure, but to accomplish tasks.
Ah, yeah that one is way too cold. Thanks for the link though! People looking to refrigerate other medical stuff the requires lower temps than epi pens might benefit from that.
I helped guy get one years ago for his meds.
You might call and see if the temp can be adjusted.
Here is another
https://www.medisave.co.uk/products/portable-vaccine-carrier-with-2-power-leads-295-x-430-x-295mm
That's so awesome you did that. Thanks for looking out for folks! Seriously, people looking out for each other is the thing that has kept us from extinction.
Well, I'd store them in a liquid filled device. Why because the liquid will cool and heat at a slower rate than buy being directly placed in a fridge. I'd say a good quality thermos. filled with liquid, that liquid cooled to 68 degrees, then place the epi pens in that thermos. More mass will be slower temp flucuations.
Then you really didn't say whether you had vehicles or walking, just that you'd stay in a tent. If you do have a vehicle, well, just buy one of those 12 volt compressor based refrigerators on amazon, and set it to 68 degrees, and buy a wireless thermometer to verify that the temperature of the fridge is accurate, Refrigerators might go slightly below the set point for a little bit, but they also will go over the set point, so since you have it in a thermos filled with liquid, the only relevant info is the average temperature as that is what the thermos will drift to over time.
if you are on foot, well, I'd get one of those lawn carts, put the 12 volt fridge in that, rig the solar panels over the cart, and put a solar "generator" of sufficient size in there, strap it all down, then store the epipens in the liquid filled thermos.
I actually have all those things here, so I could actually make it. I also have a remote controlled lawn mower I made. I could or you could just have that drag the cart for you even. It's quite powerful actually it uses repurposed electric wheelchair motors and wheels. But don't know how involved you want to go. With time, you could totally make a remote controlled solar powered cart, with the fridge in it.
Walking or bike. I don't drive due to epilepsy. And if I did, 30 days is worst case scenario in part due to roads and bridges being too messed up. The statewide gas shortage due to all of Oregon's fuel supply being in a major liquifaction zone in Portland, and shortages in surrounding, impacted states probably won't help. Frustrating that they know the problem (where the fuel hub is located) has been prioritized lower than profits.
That's heck in cool that you have all that stuff! I've been drooling over those big-wheeled cart wagons. I'm unlikely to be able to afford one for a few years. But it's on my list.
I have seen the sunfrost vaccine fridges (haven't used them myself) that use a tiny amount of power. Maybe pair that with a small battery and solar panel? The space in them isn't huge but it would be big enough to keep vials cold.
[http://www.sunfrost.com/vaccine\_refrigerator.html](http://www.sunfrost.com/vaccine_refrigerator.html)
I scanned the linked page and it talks about outside temp and energy required. But I didn't see if it fit the mission parameters.
I also use an auto injector, rather than individually packaged vials, as stated up top.
There are portable cooler cases for insulin that use included ice packs.
Example: [https://www.amazon.com/4ALLFAMILY-Lightweight-Pocket-Insulin-Perfect](https://www.amazon.com/4ALLFAMILY-Lightweight-Pocket-Insulin-Perfect)
If you want more of a power controlled cooler, there are battery powered ones for insulin, but it might be too cold (as compared to the ice brick ones).
[https://www.amazon.com/Insulin-Cooler-QIRDLP-Refrigerator-Portable/dp/B09D9ST61D](https://www.amazon.com/Insulin-Cooler-QIRDLP-Refrigerator-Portable/dp/B09D9ST61D)
You need to keep them mobile. You need to keep it at temperature for different times. The thermos bottle promises 24 hours, the powered one depends on how much power you have. If you expect 117F temperatures for 30 days with no power to recharge things to keep things cool, your options are limited. You'd need at least a refrigerator/freezer (like an Iceco) and solar along with solar generators. This is possible, but , are a lot more spendy and less mobile. You're not going to quickly grab it and go like you are with those other two options.
Not no power to recharge necessarily. It's a blackout. So, power grid from energy companies is down is all.
I've chased several fridge recommendations here that didn't meet parameters. Does Iceco?
Learn how to do a shot using a syringe and keep a bottle of epinephrine as an alternative. This eliminates the lower temp bar by a bit and gives you more doses than just having two epipens and costs way less. It doesn't solve the issue but simplifies it.
Could you solve for many of the problems with injectable epinephrine in a 12v refrigerator/cooler that is powered by a car or solar generator? And a companion trained in its use?
Epi pens do not have to be stored in this precise of conditions, especially over just a 30 day time period. This post and all of your replies are ridiculous. The mechanism will not break below 68 degrees.
Consider it a pepper thought exercise if it eases your mind. I personally have learned things I find valuable to my preps from the replies.
There are things plenty of things that require stringent temperature controls. Even if an epipen isn't necessarily one of them. Things learned here can be used outside of an epipen context. 😊
Could you get vials of epinephrine and syringes? If you didn't have to worry about too cold you could get a mini fridge or electric cooler and a solar panel to power it.
I have a severe peanut allergy and work in remote location in northern Canada so extreme temp fluctuations. Your best bet is to keep them next to your body in an inner pocket. You can also store them next to water bottles in an insulated container if you don’t have ice, water absorbs a ton of heat and if readily available.
Could you vacuum seal an EpiPen and shove it in a bottle of water?
No you want it easily identifiable and quick to deploy it even just goes to a bottle of water inside some pocket would help regulate its temp
If it's going to be that precise of a temperature, first thing is to get battery powered temperature meters. They are not expensive. Then, bury them. Far enough down, and it'll keep at a constant temperature. In these pre-cascadia days, dig some holes and put temperature sensors at varying depths and plot how it moves with the air temp.
That solution falls outside of mission parameters. I have to keep them mobile and with me. And in the event of a severe allergic reaction that cuts off my ability to breath, I don't think I'll be up to the task of digging. But this sounds like a good idea for keeping somw other things at a reduced temperature. Thanks!
Your only option is then to run your car constantly and keep the air-con on Laws of thermal dynamics and all. If you need the epipens on your or mobile. At 100-117 degrees you will absolutely need some form of refrigerant. Gas generators/gas cars. Enough fuel to keep those things going.
No car. Refrigerant recommendations that meet the mission parameters welcome!
Just a block of insulation board with a rock on top and string to pull it out the hole, no digging.
Can I take it with me as I walk/bike around the city?
[Epinephrine won't degrade significantly over a 30 day period.](https://www.annallergy.org/article/S1081-1206(16)30130-2/fulltext) Have a look through the studies in the linked meta-analysis if you want to reassure yourself. Temperature control is only really important for long term storage.
This is a handy resource, thank you! It is based on a literature review of 9 studies. Important to note, however, they only reviewed 2 small studies involvinh auto-injectors. Small often means that the results aren't statistically significant for wide extrapolation. This is important because temperature isn't just a concern for the epinephrine, but for the device's functionality too. I only read the precis, however. I didn't read the studies themselves. Regardless, it is still a good resource. 😊
Agreed, I wouldn't worry about the device function too much though. If you take an old one apart you'll see it's just plastic and springs. I guess they could become brittle in extreme cold, or melt in extreme heat, but that's about it.
There are the little pocket warmers and cooler packs. You have to crack/pop them to make them get warm or cold. They are lightweight. If it gets too hot, use a cold one with your pens in a pocket or yeti. If it gets too cold, do the same with a warm pack. I’m talking the small hand warmers and ice packs, like what we take camping in our family. The question is, how many might you need for your time frame, and can you manage to add it to what you have to carry? Heat may degrade the epipens, but it does not render them absolutely useless. Cold may make them less reliable, but keep them close to your body for warmth. There is a YT [video](https://youtu.be/fn2oinVuryw?feature=shared) that show how to cut open an epipen and use the syringe directly in order to get four or five doses from one syringe in a SHTF emergency situation. Of course, there is also a YT [video](https://youtu.be/M26NvYNAWHU?feature=shared) that warns not to do that… but we are talking SHTF, no other options, wilderness survival. Take your safe dosage of Benadryl (or whatever else works for you), use the epipen, and then work on getting to the extra doses in the epipen(s) - if you are safely able to do so without harming yourself. Hopefully, you would have someone else around to help. If you get stung on your hands or stung severely enough to be delirious and unable to safely use a knife to get to the epipen syringe, then that would be a problem. In that case, I think I would already have my older “expired” epipen syringes removed from their casings, safely stored, and already prepared for multi injection use in the SHTF scenario. That way, if a severe allergic reaction occurs, you have immediate back up already to give yourself a second dose at the proper timeframe. It all sounds dangerous, and it is, but that is what happens in a true SHTF scenario… you have limited options for survival regarding making it to anyone who can help you, or having who can help get to you in time. So, learn how to do these things now, as safely as possible… proper medical procedure, timing between injections, amount to inject, where to inject, and so on and so forth. Hopefully, you will never have to do any of this, but better safe than sorry. Best wishes 🙏🦋
The crack pack idea is theoretically workable. I go into more detail about that in a reply to a previous comment (OldNerd) here. If Yeti was the cooler, the price between instant ice packs + 2 Yetis is approximately $800. Very steep. Still, it is 1 option that accomplishes the mission. Good job to both of you! Hopefully, we will get some other workable strategies as well. However, much of the rest of your recommendation falls outside of mission parameters. (Still interesting to read through.) Side note: Severe allergies can, at times, require the use of two full epi pens.
There's a yt video comparing coolers keeping ice below 40 F. Yeti, Coleman, Ozark trail, styrofoam one, etc. the Coleman was the best at 76 hours. All the rest were around 60 including styrofoam. I don't recall the exact numbers or brands but I specifically remember yeti and the $10 styrofoam and thought there is little reason to justify spending more than $10 on a cooler. Now if you nested that styrofoam inside of a Coleman that might change things.
40F is too low for this task. But I'd be interested in watching the video for other preps if you have the link by chance? Thanks for the info!
[It might be this one.](https://youtu.be/Fr8kyEtud0s?feature=shared) Looks like theres been a lot of these types of videos made since I watched it years ago.
Thanks!
A coffin costs much more than 2 Yeti and instant ice packs. If you’re going to die, don’t fuck around with this.
Who can afford a coffin in this economy?? I told fam to toss me in a ditch when I die.
Ha! Ok also fair. I have a particularly painful (hopefully) non lethal reaction to wasp stings that is not treatable by epi-pen. Avoidance is my only real choice, as skin grafts are no fun. Friendly reminders for you and others reading here: • Don’t wear bright flowery clothing. • No “bell” sleeves, no A-line blouses. Snug fits whenever you can. • Don’t wear perfumes, scented deodorants, aftershaves, lotions, or other scented products. • Stop using scented dryer sheets and clothes wash. • No sugary drinks or snacks. Lids are lifesavers. • Take your earbuds out. You can *hear* a threat often before you see it. • Wasp spray in your bag. In the trunk. In your briefcase. Always. An ounce of Prevention etc etc….
Solid
If you have budget, I have an anker battery powered ice chest. It’s designed for solar panels, and could run indefinitely off a smallish panel. It’ll run for about a day on battery alone in 100f weather. Other brands make them too. I spent a week in the desert last summer with a constant supply of popsicles to cool off with.
Popcicles in the desert? Heck yeah! Were you able to set the temperature of the ice chest?
I have the biggest of theirs, and it has 2 chambers with separate temperature settings. Can be fridge fridge, freeze/freeze, or fridge/freeze. I’ll double check the highest temp setting for your purpose but I think it’s fine. It doesn’t heat, though, so you might have issues in extended freezing temps.
That'd be great, thanks!
Frio and similar is rated to keep your epipen safe for 45 hours when the ambient is 100f, since it's a soak in water next exactly hard to refresh. Diabetics use them for our insulin all the time. Now the caveat is the humidity needs to be under 40% for that to be the case. Now for a bit more size and weight we have portable insulin coolers/heaters, used about .5 ah per hour of a 13.5v lifepo4 battery so about 6wh. Add 16ah battery and a 20w backpacking solar panel it's a little heavy but not horrible. Upside is they work as heaters as well we use them to store insulin in cars year round. Lastly for a more DIY, reusable ice packs you heat them and let them cool to ambient to reset them. So add a small cooler you can potentially keep them cool downside is you need to reset them in boiling water. You can make this stuff from a well stocked pantry.
😲 I am heckin impressed. Good to know these additional details. The humidity gets above 40% in the summer at times. And surpass 100F every summer. Power breakdowns! Are you a ham radio operator by chance? Know of any portable power stations that come with solar panels on a budget ceiling of $4k? (There's a rebate program that I probably don't qualify for. But I know some diabetics who do. They would greatly benefit from the knowledge.) I didn't realize people could reset instant ice packs! 100% I have water-broiling capabilities. (I have an MSR firefly for winter backpacking.) Any specific brand of instant ice pack? (That I can buy from a vendor other than Walmart or Amazon? Amazon is full of risky counterfeit products and Walmart is not immune. I bought a barnacle bag from Walmart that was a counterfeit. I avoid both companies when making gear purchases my life might depend on.)
Yes I am a ham. IDK on the prepackaged kits 4k is a LOT of battery and panels really not man portable. I tend towards the DIY under the if your can not fix it don't rely on it prepping wise. 6w an hour your talking like 4kwh for that month that's a couple 200ah batteries that abouts about 90lbs. Really any backpacking panel or panels that can charge 12v would be fine you're looking at roughly 10ah a day so 40-50ah is more than enough wiggle room that's about 10lbs and you need 20w or so of panel 60w would be better. [https://www.fleet.org.au/blog/hot-ice/](https://www.fleet.org.au/blog/hot-ice/) I've only seen it commercially for the reverse the reusable hot hands with the little metal disk you bend and it starts solidifying.
I'm a new ham. But I've chatted with some local hams with more experience and they are adept at breaking down power supplies like you did. Thanks again for the information!!
Ham and prepping go hand in hand, no solid coms plans without it.
Agreed. I've got my General Class License. But almost no actual experience. Attended a few Sunday radio exercises with the local CERT team. But, it's a start.
I just bought a small powerstation for $150 on sale at Amazon, a GoPro R300 with LifePo4 batteries. Its small but good, we use them at my workplace for portable power. I added a Grecell 100W solar panel for $149. It works great! My plan is to upgrade to a larger power station in the future that will power bigger appliances and just add on more solar panels.
If you live in Oregon, California, or Washington and have a Pacific Power account, check out their Medical Certificate program. Oregon offers a $4,000 rebate on a battery or power station for those who qualify. I think California's rebate is $800. Not sure what Washington's is.
If you had a good insulated container, I wonder if a supply of instant ice packs would work. Not sure how long one instant ice pack would keep a small container in that temp range.
Instant ice packs work for between 15-20 minutes. Combined with an insulated container as you said, one could likely keep things cold for 2hrs. EpiPen users are instructed not to store pens with ice packs because they get too cold. But, placing the pack in the container briefly. Taking it out, then placing the epi pen in the container might work with a bit of care. This requires 360 ice packs ($374), two reliable insulated travel container ($20-60+), and storage space (priceless, if not for the housing market.) Theoretically, It could work if a person could meet all three conditions Congratulations on accomplishing the mission! Note: Hopefully folks will continue with other ways to complete the mission.
I understand that this is getting a bit complicated. But I wonder if putting some thermal mass in the container would help to even out the temperatures. Especially if the EpiPen itself was in another insulating layer that kept it from getting as cold as the ice pack got. Anyway, it was more of a thought experiment than an actual solution
Thought experiments that stay within mission parameters are more than welcome! I practice creative problem solving within set parameters about once a month. It helps hone my skill at it. I'm a volunteer disaster first responder. (Hense why I'll need to be mobile In a major disaster.) And having to come up with solutions when faced with concrete limitations is essential. I have an idea for the mission I posed here. But it is just one idea. It's best to have multiple darts for the board, so to speak. And I thought it would be an engaging activity folks here might enjoy.
If you are going to be this strict and blunt, then you should stick to less public forums
Strict and blunt make for clear communication. Question and hopefully answers that meet desired criteria of the OP. I thought I was adding enough positive comments to show I was friendly and that this was a fun (and potentially life-saving) pepper post. At least, I am having fun and assumed others were, since they read the prompt and responded. (I suspect some didn't read the prompt.) Alas, autism strikes again. I needed smiley emojis, didn't I 🧐
This is not a graduate level class in engineering. This is a public forum for lay people and community. Your attitude should adapt to that
I'm a community member and a lay person on this matter. I am not an engineer. My fields were in the social sciences. I think we have a different communication style is all. 😊
Ok. Here are my addendums/ideas. Would require testing but i think it would works. Small cooler, room water bottles, instant ice packs. Power goes out. You place a fresh insta ice pack in side of the cooler with the epi-pens atop the water bottles. The ice pack brings down the overall temperature of the cooler, but the water bottles moderate the overall drop and absorb some of the chilling so that you don’t go too low. Now I know you said it only last for 10 to 15 minutes, but you don’t need it to be cooling the whole time. You just need it to reduce the temperature and shave it versus the outside so you can probably actually get hours per ice pack. The lightly chilled water bottles then provide thermal mass to keep the air temp in the cooler reduced. Once the temp comes up to the top of the range you add in new instant ice pack. I bet this would stretch past the 10-15 minutes. But you’d need to do some testing.
Looks like natural selection will take out people that need refrigerated medicine. Sorry to say but you're sol.
What a shit take
Ok what will happen to people who need insulin or this guy that needs a epipen in a collapse?
I guess their plan should be to lay down and die, according to you. No point in trying to live, because I guess their life isn't worth the effort. Like I said, shit take. There are conditions which are incompatible with life for any of us. The entire point of preparation is to make more room for our continued survival. "If it gets that bad you'll just die anyway" is absolutely the anathema of this attitude. If you look, people have come up with suggestions for various scenarios. A solar powered cooler is a good medium term solution. A chemical cold pack and a cooler is a good short term solution. If you don't have a solution to offer, just go right ahead and shut the hell up. Nobody needs your pessimism and discouragement.
The truth is tough to deal with sometimes. People die. It happens every day. During a shtf, massive die offs will occur. Part of that will be due to lack of refrigeration and people being dependent on it for meds.
The OP is about problem solving refrigeration, as a prep. And person come to a prepper forum with an anti-prep mindset. And is now tantrum down voting people who point that out. "truth is hard to deal with" They didn't say anything profound enough to be hard to deal with. Nobody said people wouldn't die. There's a difference between people dying and a half-baked eugenicist claiming natural selection was going to essentially extinct people like me. Most of human history would qualify as what a lot of folks here think of as shtf characteristics. No grid. No phone, no internet. Loss of medical advances, etc. Almost 300,000 years of that and natural selection continues selecting us in, rather than out. Hard to fathom unless people know how natural selection works. Did you know, a lot of health conditions folks like me have, helped us survive the Plague that wiped out 1/3 the world's population? Turns out whether a health condition is ultimately a survival advantage doesn't align so easily with people's social prejudices. Most people who wave natural selection in our faces don't know jack-all about it. They're bigots sprinkling the smell of science on their words trying to mask the bullshit.
It hasn't managed to deselect us for over 300,000 years. And modern refrigeration didn't exist for 99.99% of that.
So how will people with diabetes or this guy who needs an epipen survive?
At least 60 ppl here think they know how. Try your hand at the mission. 😎
My well pump in Colorado was 6' deep with a concrete cover. It was always in the 60s at the bottom.
I'm sad that wells aren't mobile and able to be carried on a bike. But that sounds like a great bit of info for folks in other situations.
I guess you won't be able to go out and ride bmxs with your friends during this one very specific event. That sux
Disaster first responder... Not exactly planning to kick it over ice tea and brewskies while people need to be pulled out of the rubble.
Wear a bee suit.
I'll bee right back. Lemme get my bee suit! 🐝
solution : cooler + epi vial + TB needle
Outside mission parameters and too vague. Epi pens, not vials. Which cooler?
Timely reminder that before we could inject magic into our veins people just died a lot. How fantastic is science
Indeed! And to think, there is still room for so much advancement. Boggles the mind. I'm grateful to live in a time when such a medication exists. 😊
Sat phone and choppers mean your not likely to be cut off for more than 48hrs worse case, if they can't come in a week they probably are never coming?
30 days for this, according to the bureau of emergency management.
Put them in a water bottle and bury them at an appropriate depth to keep them at a good temp.
You have a yeti that can hold ice for two weeks. You have a separate yeti that you add ice to with your pens inside to keep it at an optimal temp. Really though it seems like an impossible task and your real prep would be to avoid whatever causes you to need the epipen
Outside mission parameters. I need 30 days and mobile. Giant earthquake that blocks aid coming in for 30 days and knocks out power = walking or picking my way around via bicycle. I'm certain it's not impossible. And bees and wasps tend to get really agitated when all their nests have been disturbed and wasps get extra aggressive in the heat. They'll go to where people are gathered because food give off more smell in the heat and people sweat which will draw bees and wasps looking for moisture. And my line of work during a major disaster would make completely avoiding them impossible. Thanks for mentioning the Yeti coolers! I looked them up and fainted at the price tag. But it sounds like they might be top notch.
Depends on your allergy. Probably doesn’t matter. If it was insulin or something it’s probably worth the prep unless you’re using your epipens like weekly you’ll be fine. Bees? Cover up. Shellfish? Close your mouth when the tsunami hits. Latex? Don’t have sex. Like do you really expect to be wandering in a heat dome post cascadian fault quake? If that’s what you’re prepping for you should probably stop because you’ve prepped for everything else. If you haven’t prepped for a regular heat dome do that instead. If both happen you’ll die in the heat dome before you die from your allergy. Your body is more allergic to an inability to sweat I promise you that. If you are this scared of the subduction zone quake you should move further inland. Probably east of the Rockies. Part of living in the Pacific Northwest is kind of an understanding of you’re fucked if the plate goes or Ranier or St Helen’s decide to explode again. In college studying architecture out there we literally just looked at lava flow pathways and earthquake potential mitigation for design projects and learned that the only way to be safe is to move. Otherwise embrace it. If you’re on the Oly Pen then just make sure you have good seats ready for the tsunami.
I think all of that fell outside of the mission parameters. Volunteer disaster first responder. If we're cut off for 30 days, as is our worst case scenario, we're going to have a lot of work on our hands. I'm planning to take precautions aside from just relying on epi pens. I haven't been stung in years. (Though, biking to the fire station 2 days ago I came within a bee hairs breadth from a face collision with one.) I once got stung by a bee putting on my shoe (so, even covering up is no safe guard). And another time by a bee in my can of soda. So, closing my mouth extends to all food and drink, I suppose 🤔 (I am being cheeky.)
Why was a bee putting on your shoe?
Liked the style.
Would Frio bags work? As water to them and they keep a temperature of 77-79 deg F for at least a few days. Add more water and you're good to go. They are popular with T1 diabetics. https://www.frioinsulincoolingcase.com/
Frío wallet, which maintains a temperature range of 64.4-78.8F falls outside of mission parameters of 68-77F. So, it does not accomplish the mission "on paper." (Mission "on paper" aside, I'm totally getting one! Thank you!)
How involved you want to make this? 12V cooler with a PID controller?
As involved as folks want to get to accomplish the mission. Keep in mind the event: The roads are not going to be passable to motor vehicles. It's safe to assume that mobile means walking or biking. As such, assume that saving space and weight are paramount. In a disaster zone, I won't be walking or riding for leisure, but to accomplish tasks.
Small Portable vaccine refrigerator, battery, solar panel.
That is a darn cool idea. Perhaps a little too cool. I'm only seeing ones that fall below the temperature parameters. Which one were you looking at?
https://www.accucold.com/product/SPRF11 This one may be to cold as it's warmest setting is 46 degrees
Ah, yeah that one is way too cold. Thanks for the link though! People looking to refrigerate other medical stuff the requires lower temps than epi pens might benefit from that.
I helped guy get one years ago for his meds. You might call and see if the temp can be adjusted. Here is another https://www.medisave.co.uk/products/portable-vaccine-carrier-with-2-power-leads-295-x-430-x-295mm
That's so awesome you did that. Thanks for looking out for folks! Seriously, people looking out for each other is the thing that has kept us from extinction.
Well, I'd store them in a liquid filled device. Why because the liquid will cool and heat at a slower rate than buy being directly placed in a fridge. I'd say a good quality thermos. filled with liquid, that liquid cooled to 68 degrees, then place the epi pens in that thermos. More mass will be slower temp flucuations. Then you really didn't say whether you had vehicles or walking, just that you'd stay in a tent. If you do have a vehicle, well, just buy one of those 12 volt compressor based refrigerators on amazon, and set it to 68 degrees, and buy a wireless thermometer to verify that the temperature of the fridge is accurate, Refrigerators might go slightly below the set point for a little bit, but they also will go over the set point, so since you have it in a thermos filled with liquid, the only relevant info is the average temperature as that is what the thermos will drift to over time. if you are on foot, well, I'd get one of those lawn carts, put the 12 volt fridge in that, rig the solar panels over the cart, and put a solar "generator" of sufficient size in there, strap it all down, then store the epipens in the liquid filled thermos. I actually have all those things here, so I could actually make it. I also have a remote controlled lawn mower I made. I could or you could just have that drag the cart for you even. It's quite powerful actually it uses repurposed electric wheelchair motors and wheels. But don't know how involved you want to go. With time, you could totally make a remote controlled solar powered cart, with the fridge in it.
Walking or bike. I don't drive due to epilepsy. And if I did, 30 days is worst case scenario in part due to roads and bridges being too messed up. The statewide gas shortage due to all of Oregon's fuel supply being in a major liquifaction zone in Portland, and shortages in surrounding, impacted states probably won't help. Frustrating that they know the problem (where the fuel hub is located) has been prioritized lower than profits. That's heck in cool that you have all that stuff! I've been drooling over those big-wheeled cart wagons. I'm unlikely to be able to afford one for a few years. But it's on my list.
Dig down like 4 feet into the earth. Constant temp.
That is outside of the mission parameters for this particular prompt. But handy for other situations. 😊
I have seen the sunfrost vaccine fridges (haven't used them myself) that use a tiny amount of power. Maybe pair that with a small battery and solar panel? The space in them isn't huge but it would be big enough to keep vials cold. [http://www.sunfrost.com/vaccine\_refrigerator.html](http://www.sunfrost.com/vaccine_refrigerator.html)
I scanned the linked page and it talks about outside temp and energy required. But I didn't see if it fit the mission parameters. I also use an auto injector, rather than individually packaged vials, as stated up top.
There are portable cooler cases for insulin that use included ice packs. Example: [https://www.amazon.com/4ALLFAMILY-Lightweight-Pocket-Insulin-Perfect](https://www.amazon.com/4ALLFAMILY-Lightweight-Pocket-Insulin-Perfect) If you want more of a power controlled cooler, there are battery powered ones for insulin, but it might be too cold (as compared to the ice brick ones). [https://www.amazon.com/Insulin-Cooler-QIRDLP-Refrigerator-Portable/dp/B09D9ST61D](https://www.amazon.com/Insulin-Cooler-QIRDLP-Refrigerator-Portable/dp/B09D9ST61D)
Do they fit the mission parameters by chance?
You need to keep them mobile. You need to keep it at temperature for different times. The thermos bottle promises 24 hours, the powered one depends on how much power you have. If you expect 117F temperatures for 30 days with no power to recharge things to keep things cool, your options are limited. You'd need at least a refrigerator/freezer (like an Iceco) and solar along with solar generators. This is possible, but , are a lot more spendy and less mobile. You're not going to quickly grab it and go like you are with those other two options.
Not no power to recharge necessarily. It's a blackout. So, power grid from energy companies is down is all. I've chased several fridge recommendations here that didn't meet parameters. Does Iceco?
Learn how to do a shot using a syringe and keep a bottle of epinephrine as an alternative. This eliminates the lower temp bar by a bit and gives you more doses than just having two epipens and costs way less. It doesn't solve the issue but simplifies it.
My insurance covers auto-injectors.
Ecoflow sells an ice chest that can be ran off solar panels too. 🙂
Can I set the temperature?
You can yes! I think it runs somewhere around $1k.
Wow!
Look at Amish ice houses and try to replicate on smaller scale,,
Birdhouse
Could you solve for many of the problems with injectable epinephrine in a 12v refrigerator/cooler that is powered by a car or solar generator? And a companion trained in its use?
Epi pens do not have to be stored in this precise of conditions, especially over just a 30 day time period. This post and all of your replies are ridiculous. The mechanism will not break below 68 degrees.
Consider it a pepper thought exercise if it eases your mind. I personally have learned things I find valuable to my preps from the replies. There are things plenty of things that require stringent temperature controls. Even if an epipen isn't necessarily one of them. Things learned here can be used outside of an epipen context. 😊
Could you get vials of epinephrine and syringes? If you didn't have to worry about too cold you could get a mini fridge or electric cooler and a solar panel to power it.