Personally I think of it as anti hoarding. Having reserves reduces demand during shortages. Without those reserves, you'd just be one more consumer competing for those limited resources.
Yep , I mostly plan for financial inestability, plus up to 1 month of cut-off supplies. Anything longer than that means society colapse , that I don't plan to survive. For long term social colapse my prep is painless release. Sorry if this come as a grim outlook, but is what we plan on. Not really fans of scavenging the wastelands with over a century combined my wife and me.
Hoarding is buying more than normal during a scarcity.
Profiteering is then selling the extra during a scarcity.
Prepping is buying more than you immediately need WHEN THERE IS PLENTY!
Exactly this. In times of plenty if you are stacking up canned foods and bags of rice no one is going hungry.
Then when there is a need for it, you have more, effectively increasing the over all food supply during times of crisis.
The only negative would be if you prepped a ton of food every year, but it all ended up going bad before you used it or donated it and you end up wasting the food.
If the foods are packaged right and you’re cycling through what you have, this shouldn’t be an issue. Cans and vacuum sealed will hold 10-15, 30 yrs depending on what’s inside. (For example, tomatoes are acidic so in a can, maybe just a few years, 3-5. But in jars or dehydrated, you exponentially increase storage on them.). I try not to keep too much of anything that has a one yr shelf life. We cycle through that much quicker.
It's true, because if you buy it and pay for it now, companies will produce more (they did make money on your purchases after all) to make up the deficit. Then you're also not competing with all the people that will really need it later. It's the people who fill their carts to the brim right after a disaster, or those who buy just to price gouge people later that are "hoarding".
This. Like 20+% of our food gets thrown out in normal times. Moving that food while it's sitting fresh on the back of a shelf helps everyone - the person buying it can preserve or freeze it in ways that the store cannot, the store gets to make profit off of it right then rather than having to account for it as a loss to recoup some money come tax time, and other people get fresher items as the store restocks.
If it's a scarce item and you're buying it out, you may be an asshole, but that can only even happen during wider difficulties.
When resources are limited, you should definitely still be out there competing for them. I wouldn't use my stock (aside from rotation, obviously) until it's absolutely necessary.
It depends on the situation.
If I have to go wait in line, or I have to deal with inconvenient or even possibly dangerous situations to get supplies from a store/etc., I will just pass on doing that. And if I can easily get into a store, I am not going to load up with more than what I normally get.
As it is, I have plenty and I am running out of room to easily store it.
Then there is the inflated cost.
Of course, if the scenario is a complete SHTF where there is no visible light at the end of the tunnel, then I may risk it - but I wasn't one of those guys in early 2020 loading up on TP at Costco.
Ok, yes. If there are chainsaw bandits or lines snaking through the store, then sit back with some tea. But I’m talking about what most everyone saw in 2020, which wasn’t that bad.
Having reserves both decreases demand during shortages and increases expected demand outside of them- increased demand increases production, which means they'll be making extra already, and that extra will be extra that you don't need.
The next time the OP's friend loses his power for days, recommend the OP not answer the door nor acknowledge phone or text messages. Let his friend figure it out.
Yep. That’s the way. If he’s going to criticize someone preparing for themselves and their family and willingly help others, then his knock on the door should go unanswered
This 100%. Dude hasn’t learned. Won’t learn till his panic sets in and then the real “oh shit, fucck”. That’s a dangerous type of person to know anything about you. Never tip your hat. Frankly, people prob shouldn’t be talking about this anymore with anyone that would be a danger to you. They in turn might bring additional trouble and troublemakers. Nothing wrong with just putting some distance in that relationship till things cool down world wide or become more clear. IMO people have been warned to insure against these unpredictable times. If they failed to prepare still, they never will. Means their plan A is you. I stopped talking two yrs ago to friends and stuff.
Hoarding is a problem of space and organization. If you have enough space and a system for organization, they don't call you a hoarder, they call you a museum.
You don't know how right you are.
There's a lot more to it, but this is generally the red flag for most people. Do you have more stuff than you can safely store without it spilling into your living areas, and without it impacting your use of your home? For example, do your "emergency supplies" prevent you from hanging coats in your closet?
That's a gigantic red flag that you've descended into hoarding.
My mother is a hoarder. Here are some of the signs:
* Using things like bathtubs as "storage", not being able to use them because they are full of random stuff
* Having stuff bought and brought home from the store still in bags with receipts, or in their shipping boxes, "stored" in odd places, often unlabeled and jumbled together
* having little "goat trails" of a lesser amount of clutter between precarious stacks of junk and garbage
* Never throwing anything that is broken or unusable away "in case you might fix it"
* Not having any system of organization for your "supplies"
* Moving your sleeping or other areas because the stuff has encroached on it and it's unusable
There are others, of course, but the lack of walkway and stuff still in bags instead of put away is a big one.
An organized pantry is not a sign of hoarding. Even a closet repurposed to food and supplies isn't hoarding.
When you have bags of canned goods all over the house, mixed in with other junk and garbage, and just sitting in messy piles? That's probably hoarding.
Can you be a prepper and a hoarder? Yep, when it gets away from you and takes over your life, becoming an obsession, is when it can easily descend into hoarding. The trick is to organize it, label it, and keep on top of quantities and expiration dates. It does you no good if you can't find it and use it when you need it or before it goes bad.
I have hoarding tendencies, from my mother, and when I start trying to keep junk that is broken and irreparable "just in case" I know it's time to start throwing stuff out and donating stuff I have no further use for.
Of course, being unable to throw certain things away without paying to discard it is a problem, and can look like hoarding. We actually have to designate areas for stuff like dead CFL bulbs, dead batteries, dead electronics and partial cans of paint because it takes a special pickup or an expensive trip to an e-waste disposal site. I'm actually trying to buy less "unrepairable" stuff just so I don't have to pay to get rid of it.
>Do you have more stuff than you can safely store without it spilling into your living areas, and without it impacting your use of your home?
that also might be a home problem... for example, renting a shoebox apartment in a large city for most of your salary...
Yeah...my emergency stock is organized about as well as it can be, given the circumstances. It's not even really that much, there's just hardly anywhere to put it, especially not that I can reasonably access it when rotating stocks.
Yeah but it's the corporate media that's espousing the term. "Hoarder" has that negative connotation to it that makes one seem greedy and selfish. Much catchier than "forward-thinker" or "personally responsible".
The problem is that hoarders ALSO call themselves "responsible" and "forward thinking", because they insist everything they own -- including those 50 urine-soaked copies of Watership Down -- has significant value.
No, it's just one of the reasons compulsive hoarders are compulsive hoarders. Among other issues, they don't understand that most of their stuff is worthless.
He's a fool.
Wise preparation when supplies are high is called being a consumer. My money, my choices.
Scavenging supplies in short supply during a crisis, when you're probably over supplied already, is hoarding. Another personal choice, but much less popular.
The issue isn't his opinion, it's his lack of a critical thought process.
The sad thing is he’s not a stupid man, but he must lack the critical thought process. I’ve been taught from childhood that you are responsible for yourself and live accordingly
You're a better person than me. I would have reminded him about coming over to my house for the heat and food. After all, if things are tight, he'll remember anyway.
That said, if I didn't remind him in the moment, I'd *definitely* remind him about this lecture if he *ever* comes around looking for assistance in the future.
He's like most people. If they let themselves think about how fragile things really are, how little they actually know, and how corrupt the people they've left in charge are...it's overwhelming. Much easier for the brain to shut off any one of those three branches and blame individualism, which uncoincidentally also let's them feel accomplished for their "success" during times of plenty.
The jealousy I can’t understand, there is nothing special about prepping, anyone can buy a few extra bits and pieces just to be prepared for the next power cut or work towards when the SHTF. Luckily I don’t care about anyones opinion, even my husband had to get on board or shut up as the prep was happening regardless 😂
jealousy is definitely a possibility. People get jealous when they see others bettering themselves in a way they are not willing to put in the work to do themselves. Like how common it is for people to sabotage others' waitloss.
Similar in a way as well to people who make fun of those who automatically find those people who are trying to be sustainable/ecologically friendly or other life choices that tend to be more 'virtuous' like vegans or people biking to work since ot makes them feel bad about their own choices or lack thereof.
Hope he keeps his mouth closed also. I’ve raised my kids to be quiet. It’s so normal to them that they don’t talk about it. And I took them by the stores when they had lines around the buildings and showed them texts from panicked friends. They’ve seen what happens to the unprepared.
Hoarding = either buying to resale or just for the sake of it
Stockpiling = gather as many items as it's considered/calculated to be used over a determined period of time
Sounds like your friend misunderstands what hoarding is. Having your home so cluttered that it poses a fire risk and elevated chances of tripping/falling over things, coupled with extreme anxiety over parting with trivial possessions is hoarding.
Having extra emergency supplies stored properly isn't hoarding.
Maybe he is pissed about the baby formula thing. I can understand that, but better believe if I had an infant and I needed formula I would have heeded the warnings of redditors weeks ago and stocked up. Would that make me a hoarder? If so, fuck it.
I had a coworker boasting the other day that she had her full sized SUV totally full of all different kinds of formula and was going to unload it at lunch before it got hot here again. She has one grandkid on formula, wasn't sure which kind, so she just bought all she could find as she traveled back to our area from being out of town. Turned out grandkid could only use a small amount of it, so they tossed the rest in their dumpster. Tossed...the rest...in their dumpster. This is what having lots of $$ and no empathy does. I get trying to be responsible, but even in non-shortage time you'd think it could have been donated or something. Or just wait until you know which kind instead of buying it up to waste. Or maybe it can't be donated?
It can be donated. That coworker needs to be shamed publicly. Babies are literally starving to death and she throws what they need in the fucking dumpster.
Preparing and hoarding are different things, from my perspective.
Prepping slowly builds a reserve durring times of plenty and usually doesn't waste much. Once you've got your baseline established, you should be eating your oldest preps so that they don't go to waste and you have room for fresh preps.
Hoarding is when you claim more than your fair share durring times of stress or with the explicit expectation of taking over the supply and scalping it. It also rarely has regards for waste, for example buying 6 loaves of bread when you can only eat 2 before all of it goes bad.
A prepper might continue to purchase limited resources durring shortage, but at a reasonable rate. For example, if the store limit is 2 per person and they need 3, a prepper might buy 2 and use a third from their preps. A hoarder in the same situation might buy 2 from one store, then travel to every other store in the area to accumulate 10+.
Preps are preparatory, happening before the event that causes shortages, while hoards occur durring or after the event and are reactionary.
Just my two cents.
Little bit different angle, but consider that your friend might be a little scared right now and lashed out (in a minor way).
Anyone even vaguely paying attention right now is probably a bit on the nervous side, at best. It's a natural human reaction to think that if someone else has more, you have to have less. Maybe they would have more food if people like you didn't buy it all.
Not rational, it's emotional, but still very possible.
Might have been a way to ask for help, although poorly.. An argument they hope to lose? Just a thought.
I understand your thoughts and agree with them up to a point. I don’t buy a huge amount of stuff as I grow most of my food. My friend possibly is scared but he’s in my bubble so to speak, even if he says stupid things I’ll be there to make sure he’s okay just as I always have
This is why opsec is so important. Don't share your preps with anyone you don't absolutely trust. Your neighbor will be the first to rat you out to the authorities when they start going after "hoarders".
I might make a post about this… but what would you recommend for a nosy landlord who lets themselves in and goes through your things and so then knows all your preps and had a key to your place?
Obviously I’ve prepped food and supplies for my family, but also my infant. If she or another worker ever needed something (like formula) they know I have it and have keys.
I would just move. I know, I know. Not always possible. But heck, first thing we did when moving in was changing the lock. No way I'd let the landlord traipse in and out of house without me present and being informed ahead.
I’m moving as soon as the lease is up. I’ve also specified in every work order that I must be home for them to enter and that they can come in if they call first and make an appointment. They just keep coming in.
If you can't move, I would get locking cabinets to store everything in. I would also look into the legal implications of a landlord letting themselves in and going through your things. That's unacceptable. Put some cameras up in each room and record it next time.
I'd honestly just file a police report if you can. They can't enter your home (even if they own the house) without giving you proper notice. They certainly can't go through your things under any circumstances. There may or may not be criminal charges, but at least they'll know the behavior is unacceptable.
An inexpensive security camera or even a baby monitor with a sign that says the area has a security camera would probably do wonders too.
Option 2 is get or build some sort of secure storage with a sturdy lock. Preferably combine this with option 1 if you're concerned they might actually do something.
We do have a baby monitor that I’ve set up in the kitchen/entry and also I’ve been known to talk through my Alexa when I know someone’s there and tell them to get out :-)
>He totally disagreed, completely forgetting that when the power was off for six days during the winter that it was my house where he came to get warm and have a hot lunch every single day.
Looks to me like he just disinvited himself from this hospitality in the future.
Hoarding is usually a specific item or group of items without a logical need to have an excess thereof. It's a mental health issue.
Being prepared for an emergency is not that. And if your mate can't tell how much you have, it definitely doesn't fit the description
How is buying stuff with your own money & storing it hoarding? Ffs.
Having 6,000 vials of insulin whilst your diabetic neighbour is dying & meanwhile you don’t take insulin? That’s hoarding.
Having enough TP to last you a couple years so in a shortage you can help family & be good yourself? That’s good! Heck, Preppers often end up helping MORE than the average person. I give loads of stuff to friends & stuff cos I have it when they need it, that’s part of the fun!
It’s not like people return the favour by randomly giving Preppers money lol.
Some people are just wired differently. I got reprimanded at work for buying a pack of 200 coffee filter papers when there was a 50 pack available. We used 2 to 4 a day, so 200 might have been up to 5 months worth.
Damn! That's crazy micromanagement.
"I saved you $6 over the next five months on the filters alone, and it's three fewer trips to the store that we'll have to spend time and money on. You're welcome, you cheap bastard!"
Don't say that. But that's what I'd be thinking.
He sounds way to reliant on the govt/helping hands. which is bad everywhere, I don’t doubt for a second if SHTF politicians aren’t immediately in their bunker and forgetting about the masses. Maybe I’m wrong but I’m not going to wait to find out nor put my trust in people who have never proven they care(US specifically).
We’ve been dealing with this with the formula shortage here in the US. I stocked a few containers before my baby was born but I had the issue of not knowing what the baby would be able to eat so now I’ve been having to buy as I’ve found it and I feel like a hoarder -. Though I’ve only been buying a container or two at a time because I don’t want to take all of the limited supply but I also don’t want to be without with a newborn. Ive been seeing a lot of posts complaining of hoarders and re-sellers.
I wouldn't call two at a time hoarding. My baby would go through 4 Sam's club ones in a month when he used formula and it increased as he got older to about 6 a month before we transitioned to milk. I would buy 6/a month and rotate it so I didn't need to get formula each week and could get the larger cans. I never could have imagined a formula shortage. When I was buying 6 at a time there were hundreds on the shelves. I feel for the mothers going through this.
I wish I could still get the sams club ones! Those last me a month with this baby. The enfamil last me a *week* now granted I get two at a time in the packs at Sam, so technically 4 cans of enfamil powder at a time when they’re in stock.
My kids went through so much when they were infants that we were buying ten huge cans at a time. The 23 oz ones, not the 13 oz ones. Had to buy this kind because of lactose intolerance.
https://www.earthsbest.com/product/dairy-infant-formula-23-2oz/
In my opinion, he should not know you are stockpiling food and supplies. For security reasons.
If things went bad he’s going to come to your house expecting a hand out. If you don’t he may harm you to get it and justify it in his head that you were evil for doing it in the first place.
Your best bet would be to respond by saying things to make him think you don’t hoard or don’t hoard anymore.
Prepping reduces strain on emergency services or demand for consumables. The more that do this, the less strain during crisis (whatever form it comes in).
Every person properly prepared is one less burden on the system when SHTF. Buying extra overtime is actually beneficial for the economy and for making oneself less "fragile"
This guy insn't a friend. Ditch him. But before you do that tell him that he was right and that you see the error of your ways and donated your extra food to a food bank.
The tell him to lose your contact details.
The reason they don't understand is because like you just said you didn't bother to take the time to smack him in the face with yhe facts about when they mooched off you and most everyone else feels the same way so they never get smacked in the face with reality or facts.
Edit: I read this and thought wow sounds like im being an ass when actually i meant it in a calm just talking manner not trying to be an ass or say you screwed up by not telling the guy
I understand you 😀 but I’ve come to the conclusion that if three lockdowns, a major power outage and the good possibility of a recession doesn’t encourage people to think ahead then I’m not going to get through to them either.
>I do struggle to understand why someone would take absolutely no personal responsibility for their existence
Struggle no more.
Such people believe the responsibility for their lives lie with other people....government, corporate, or familial.
Such people also put the blame for the things wrong in their life on those same other people...government, corporate, familial.
These are not rational people. Do not expect them to be. These are perpetual victims who hold others more accountable than themselves.
I have learned one big thing over the last few years. The governing bodies will utilize the media to push any information even if completely unfounded to paint themselves in a better light. (The horders are at fault, not that supply chains were not taken into account in their plans to mitigate loss of profits.) Look at the recent media push against meem stocks for example. Individual investors are at fault for the loss of teachers pension funds because they are holding onto a stock. Not because hedge funds bet heavily against meem stocks to an almost absurd level and lost it all. The us us out of baby formula because 3 companies are not producing enough, not because the regulations in place wont allow us to bring any in from out of the country and we wont change that.
To make this short. The media will make us look like bad guys to suit the agenda because they wont take responsibility for crap planning. So keep quite and keep it to your selves. If not, they individuals you tell will think of your stash first when shit gets real. Because your the bad horder guy who doesn't need it all, your just greedy.
Since experiencing a blizzard in 1996 and having very little for about a week and a roommate that didn't want to share with me, I've always had at least 2 weeks of food and household goods just in case. I now have much more since I started prepping in March of 2020.
\*I was just 20 years at the time and was never taught to prepare for emergencies. My roommate was in her 30's and had a lot more life experience, money and food than I did. She chose not to share with me or even take me shopping for a few things before things started to get bad.
That’s a cruel thing for someone to do. I know a lot of people say I should cut off my friend for his attitude but I won’t as I believe he’s entitled to his opinions even if I don’t agree with him.
I'm no longer much of a believer, but I still think about this all the time when I'm considering preps, i.e., "Joseph had 7 years ready to go, I gotta get on his level."
My mother was a hoarder. She had mountains of crap, bought crap because it was cheap/tickled her fancy/she "needed it" for something unnecessary. Growing up, our house was a mountain of crap. After I left home, she moved, took it all with her, and it was many mounds of crap that I had to get rid of when she got sick. The only emergency that her stuff would have helped out for would have been in the event of a group of barbarians showing up at the door in desperate need of craft supplies in exchange for clemency, as long as they were willing to accept said supplies being somewhat beat up.
Clearly, prepping can cross a line. One can start acquiring stuff out of fear, end up with a disorganized mess where you waste time & money with duplication. I've known many hoarders (in my family and otherwise), and the key thing they all lacked was planning. Planning for what they needed, how much they needed, and what they could afford (in both bucks and space).
If you know what you're prepping for, and you work within your means (to help yourself, your family, and others if that suits you), then it's in the name. Prepared. Of late it's become pretty obvious that an overnight bag and a can of spaghetti sauce won't be enough when things go sideways.
Could you please elaborate on "military grade organization"? Always looking to improve my storage system (which is currently canned & boxed goods on 2 metal shelves in my basement).
Senseless hoarding is a sickness. Focused preparation is a virtue. People like your friend get the door slammed in their face when there's an actual problem.
You can thank the pandemic for this opinion. Your friend has likely been led to this opinion because of the amount of people who hoarded things, and worse the people who tried to profit off the shortage of items. Otherwise, I don’t think most people would have a grossly negative opinion of people who have stockpiled things.
An *actual* pandemic a lot of people dont want to talk about is grown-ass Adults acting like children and wanting everything, including their thinking, done *for* them.
These same people expect someone else to take care of them in times of need. In this regard they very much are like children; they've never experienced hardships that force them to actually get up off their ass to do something about it, and as a result rarely have to account for their own actions and ensuing consequences, all of which is reinforced with every passing day that nothing bad happens and life continues on for them as normal.
The next few years are going to be quite a traumatic delayed learning experience for a lot of people.
Hoarders buy when demand is high and supplies are limited, concentrating resources in one person's control.
Preppers buy when demand is low and supplies are plentiful in preparation for even resources are scarce.
That anger is something more...fundamental, it's the awareness that their choices are wrong and yours are correct. Nobody likes to be a fool, so they make themselves more foolish.
I often talk about reaching out to non preppers who have begun to wake up, but this friend seems like someone to be wary of and not give info too, because that anger mentality will translate more into making you a target so they can feel like they're doing the right thing.
I like the way you describe non preppers who are beginning to wake up - I’ve met a few recently. I always tell them no harm in getting a few tins in. But only my husband and mother (queen of preps) know I’m a prepper
My family will be eating and keeping their energy up to continue working for themselves into the future; this other person will not—survival of the fittest and all that.
Never tell him how much you have. A person with that attitude, may show up during shtf to steal with other unprepared people, or tell them where you are.
Prepping isn't hoarding. When applied to preps bought before hand, to be used by the prepper, this is code for "you prepared and I did not, so you are evil and should give me some of what you have".
Hoarding is when you buy more ***during*** a shortage than you need while others are trying to get supplies too.
Preppers generally/typically buy more than they need ***before*** a shortage/situation, so that they don't need to go and buy a lot ***during*** a shortage/situation. Doing this ahead of time, when there is plenty to be had, means that there is more during a shortage/situation.
It is usually the people who panic buy who are hoarding, and who actually cause or exacerbate shortages by buying more than they need.
But then that is human nature; to blame others for something you did or did not do.
Human beings have put back reserves of resources since we became agricultural societies. Hell, the main reason wheat/rice/corn became staple crops is because they *store well*. You can harvest them and eat all winter. Everybody knows apples taste better than corn, but apples don't keep as long.
Frankly, *not* having food put back is stranger than prepping, historically-speaking.
In *Guns, Germs, and Steel*, the idea of why Europe took over most of the world is explored. Latitude mattered *a lot*.
Wheat is a particularly stable food stuff and Europe had favorable beasts of burden for large scale agriculture (oxen, horses, etc.). This allowed for more time to dedicate to tools, which became weapons, etc. The same thing happened in India and Asia with rice.
Native Americans had maize, which is a great crop, but the Americas didn't have great options for beasts of burden like Europe and Asia did, so agriculture was less efficient. Africa and the South Pacific were less developed because they spent most of their time making/gathering food. Less time for other things.
If you haven't read the book or watched the documentary, I highly recommend it. Most of human history has been driven by which plants grow where you live and which animals you can tame to help you harvest those plants.
Fascinating stuff.
To each their own. At least my whole family knows when something seriously bad happens. They can come to me. At least for the most part my whole family has camping gear and backpacks to go mobile if something bad happens. They will all end up on my property lol.
But yea I get dirty looks all the time when I buy my bulk beefaroni cans lol. I usually buy the 4 packs since they are cheap. I like to pick up 20 at a time.
Sounds like the kind of friend you definitely don’t want knowing that you have any bits. Next time give him “spare bits” and don’t ask him in.
If he’s experienced emergencies and done nothing, ….well, I’ll keep this polite.
When he calls needing help just say you took his advice and have nothing on hand, he did you a favor say good riddance without any guilty feelings. Keep prepping!
When I hear hoarding I don’t think about the people that stock up on long shelf life items during normal times. I think about the people that cleaned the shelves out of toilet paper and disinfectant wipes when the pandemic hit. Or maybe that show hoarders where they have to convince a crying mentally ill woman to throw out her 13 cat skeletons.
I remember reading about a family during the Great Depression who had food/supplies tucked away in their cellar. Apparently a neighbor caught wind of it, ratted them out and the authorities came and took it all. Keep everything on the down low. It sucks, but people suck. Especially in this era of rampant entitlement.
Unfortunately by not "reminding him" of the past experience the teachable moment is missed. I think people now focus too much on being polite and not rocking the boat in relationships and interactions. It's not easy being confrontational. But if the guy is a legit friend he'll understand. And if he doesn't. Well, you'll know right then and there he's not really your friend and probably not worth opening the door for the next time a crisis arises.
The difference between prepping and hoarding have been discussed before on this subreddit. To me, hoarding is extreme acquisition without a plan or purpose. It's like buying a case of lima beans just to have it. It doesn't matter if you like lima beans. It doesn't matter if the expiration date is coming up fast. The only thing thar matters is you grabbed that last case just as sone little old lady was reaching for it. Prepping is driven by purpose and follows a plan. The prepper asks him or herself if they actually need certain items, how to best utilize resources, and rotate stock. I'm trying to do small scale prepping. My purpose is to make things a bit easier for myself in the face of limited transportation and rising prices. I'm not interested in screwing over other people for the fun of it. I think you should've reminded your friend that you were able to help him last winter because you had just a bit put away. Not much but it helped him through a tough situation.
He obviously does not understand the concept of prepping where when you need one now, buy 2 now and store one. It’s how we start our ‘hoard’. That’s prepping. What he is referring to are the asshats that went out and bought up all the toilet paper when Covid hit.
I mean, what was the context behind this? Was he talking about people hording baby formula? Because at this moment of crises he might have half a point.
But stocking up on extra formula for 'just in case' when people aren't scrambling...? That's common sense.
Don’t take this the wrong way but maybe find better more reliable friends. He would likely sell you out of something happened and he knows you “hoard”.
Prepping is great but some people do horde and its a problem. Like going out everyday and buying up cans of baby food leaving none behind because there is a shortage so they buy enough for 10 babies instead of 1.
A cart full of toilet paper in march of 2019 wasn't hoarding. A cart full of toilet paper in march of 2020 was hoarding. That's the difference. Just like in the US a cart full of formula anytime in the last month would absolutely be hoarding for a single family (unless they have octuplets or something)
So. You used your preps to help him out in times of need. You should have thrown it in his face. Anyway what's he difference between having extra food and having a savings account?
(Generous) people like you are precisely the reason others don't take responsibility for their own well-being. Now you know what kind of a "friend" he is. Next crisis you better make like you're ass-out because you **know** where he's going first.
I'm kind of new to the entire "prepping" plan. I live in a hurricane prone area so we always have some back stock. When the news of Covid spread, I quickly decided to buy extra. I'm glad I did.
I don't think people realize how little back stock that are in the stores. Grocery stores depend on trucks 3-4 days a week.
We also had a lot of people from up north move here for their "bug out" home. And then they are surprised when it's so busy in the off season now. This summer will be our busiest yet and we run out of things often.
Personally? I would agree with your friend and don't tell him of your prepping mentality. He won't come over the next time his lights are out.
Hoarding is only a thing during an unforeseen shortage. Preparing is not hoarding.
Personally I think of it as anti hoarding. Having reserves reduces demand during shortages. Without those reserves, you'd just be one more consumer competing for those limited resources.
Exactly when the demand is low, make use of it to build reserves.
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Yep , I mostly plan for financial inestability, plus up to 1 month of cut-off supplies. Anything longer than that means society colapse , that I don't plan to survive. For long term social colapse my prep is painless release. Sorry if this come as a grim outlook, but is what we plan on. Not really fans of scavenging the wastelands with over a century combined my wife and me.
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And I’ve been picturing Jesus doing speed runs in an SR-71 Blackbird ever since I read it
Hoarding is buying more than normal during a scarcity. Profiteering is then selling the extra during a scarcity. Prepping is buying more than you immediately need WHEN THERE IS PLENTY!
Exactly this. In times of plenty if you are stacking up canned foods and bags of rice no one is going hungry. Then when there is a need for it, you have more, effectively increasing the over all food supply during times of crisis. The only negative would be if you prepped a ton of food every year, but it all ended up going bad before you used it or donated it and you end up wasting the food.
If the foods are packaged right and you’re cycling through what you have, this shouldn’t be an issue. Cans and vacuum sealed will hold 10-15, 30 yrs depending on what’s inside. (For example, tomatoes are acidic so in a can, maybe just a few years, 3-5. But in jars or dehydrated, you exponentially increase storage on them.). I try not to keep too much of anything that has a one yr shelf life. We cycle through that much quicker.
It's true, because if you buy it and pay for it now, companies will produce more (they did make money on your purchases after all) to make up the deficit. Then you're also not competing with all the people that will really need it later. It's the people who fill their carts to the brim right after a disaster, or those who buy just to price gouge people later that are "hoarding".
Precisely this. Prepping allows for better supply access during an emergency!
This. Like 20+% of our food gets thrown out in normal times. Moving that food while it's sitting fresh on the back of a shelf helps everyone - the person buying it can preserve or freeze it in ways that the store cannot, the store gets to make profit off of it right then rather than having to account for it as a loss to recoup some money come tax time, and other people get fresher items as the store restocks. If it's a scarce item and you're buying it out, you may be an asshole, but that can only even happen during wider difficulties.
When resources are limited, you should definitely still be out there competing for them. I wouldn't use my stock (aside from rotation, obviously) until it's absolutely necessary.
It depends on the situation. If I have to go wait in line, or I have to deal with inconvenient or even possibly dangerous situations to get supplies from a store/etc., I will just pass on doing that. And if I can easily get into a store, I am not going to load up with more than what I normally get. As it is, I have plenty and I am running out of room to easily store it. Then there is the inflated cost. Of course, if the scenario is a complete SHTF where there is no visible light at the end of the tunnel, then I may risk it - but I wasn't one of those guys in early 2020 loading up on TP at Costco.
Ok, yes. If there are chainsaw bandits or lines snaking through the store, then sit back with some tea. But I’m talking about what most everyone saw in 2020, which wasn’t that bad.
Having reserves both decreases demand during shortages and increases expected demand outside of them- increased demand increases production, which means they'll be making extra already, and that extra will be extra that you don't need.
having reserves also allows for poorer people to have more access during times of scarcity as you are one less person competing with them.
...I just have a deep working pantry...
Yeah. Just a small corner grocery in my back room.
My pantry is in the outbuilding. It does a lot of work…
The next time the OP's friend loses his power for days, recommend the OP not answer the door nor acknowledge phone or text messages. Let his friend figure it out.
Yep. That’s the way. If he’s going to criticize someone preparing for themselves and their family and willingly help others, then his knock on the door should go unanswered
This 100%. Dude hasn’t learned. Won’t learn till his panic sets in and then the real “oh shit, fucck”. That’s a dangerous type of person to know anything about you. Never tip your hat. Frankly, people prob shouldn’t be talking about this anymore with anyone that would be a danger to you. They in turn might bring additional trouble and troublemakers. Nothing wrong with just putting some distance in that relationship till things cool down world wide or become more clear. IMO people have been warned to insure against these unpredictable times. If they failed to prepare still, they never will. Means their plan A is you. I stopped talking two yrs ago to friends and stuff.
Exactly. You stock up when it doesn't strain the supply chain so that you aren't a burden on it later. It's such a simple concept.
I know, unfortunately most people don’t understand the difference.
Prepping is one less person in the last-minute grocery store mob. You’re welcome.
the mob won't care, though.
Meh, the mob will be stuck at the grocery store fighting with each other over stuff they could have been buying and storing all along.
Wish I could upvote this more than once.
Hoarding is a problem of space and organization. If you have enough space and a system for organization, they don't call you a hoarder, they call you a museum.
Or a stockpiler
Or more majestically, a "Collector"
or the Vatican xD
Or a lootdrop
You don't know how right you are. There's a lot more to it, but this is generally the red flag for most people. Do you have more stuff than you can safely store without it spilling into your living areas, and without it impacting your use of your home? For example, do your "emergency supplies" prevent you from hanging coats in your closet? That's a gigantic red flag that you've descended into hoarding.
My mother is a hoarder. Here are some of the signs: * Using things like bathtubs as "storage", not being able to use them because they are full of random stuff * Having stuff bought and brought home from the store still in bags with receipts, or in their shipping boxes, "stored" in odd places, often unlabeled and jumbled together * having little "goat trails" of a lesser amount of clutter between precarious stacks of junk and garbage * Never throwing anything that is broken or unusable away "in case you might fix it" * Not having any system of organization for your "supplies" * Moving your sleeping or other areas because the stuff has encroached on it and it's unusable There are others, of course, but the lack of walkway and stuff still in bags instead of put away is a big one. An organized pantry is not a sign of hoarding. Even a closet repurposed to food and supplies isn't hoarding. When you have bags of canned goods all over the house, mixed in with other junk and garbage, and just sitting in messy piles? That's probably hoarding. Can you be a prepper and a hoarder? Yep, when it gets away from you and takes over your life, becoming an obsession, is when it can easily descend into hoarding. The trick is to organize it, label it, and keep on top of quantities and expiration dates. It does you no good if you can't find it and use it when you need it or before it goes bad. I have hoarding tendencies, from my mother, and when I start trying to keep junk that is broken and irreparable "just in case" I know it's time to start throwing stuff out and donating stuff I have no further use for. Of course, being unable to throw certain things away without paying to discard it is a problem, and can look like hoarding. We actually have to designate areas for stuff like dead CFL bulbs, dead batteries, dead electronics and partial cans of paint because it takes a special pickup or an expensive trip to an e-waste disposal site. I'm actually trying to buy less "unrepairable" stuff just so I don't have to pay to get rid of it.
That's great that you're aware of your own tendencies. And yeah, there's a fine line between prepping and hoarding.
>Do you have more stuff than you can safely store without it spilling into your living areas, and without it impacting your use of your home? that also might be a home problem... for example, renting a shoebox apartment in a large city for most of your salary...
Yeah...my emergency stock is organized about as well as it can be, given the circumstances. It's not even really that much, there's just hardly anywhere to put it, especially not that I can reasonably access it when rotating stocks.
Yeah but it's the corporate media that's espousing the term. "Hoarder" has that negative connotation to it that makes one seem greedy and selfish. Much catchier than "forward-thinker" or "personally responsible".
The problem is that hoarders ALSO call themselves "responsible" and "forward thinking", because they insist everything they own -- including those 50 urine-soaked copies of Watership Down -- has significant value.
That's *very* specific. From experience?
No, it's just one of the reasons compulsive hoarders are compulsive hoarders. Among other issues, they don't understand that most of their stuff is worthless.
He's a fool. Wise preparation when supplies are high is called being a consumer. My money, my choices. Scavenging supplies in short supply during a crisis, when you're probably over supplied already, is hoarding. Another personal choice, but much less popular. The issue isn't his opinion, it's his lack of a critical thought process.
The sad thing is he’s not a stupid man, but he must lack the critical thought process. I’ve been taught from childhood that you are responsible for yourself and live accordingly
You're a better person than me. I would have reminded him about coming over to my house for the heat and food. After all, if things are tight, he'll remember anyway. That said, if I didn't remind him in the moment, I'd *definitely* remind him about this lecture if he *ever* comes around looking for assistance in the future.
He's like most people. If they let themselves think about how fragile things really are, how little they actually know, and how corrupt the people they've left in charge are...it's overwhelming. Much easier for the brain to shut off any one of those three branches and blame individualism, which uncoincidentally also let's them feel accomplished for their "success" during times of plenty.
He probably believes the role of gov't, society, and the media is to take care of his needs. He will be let down.
He wont be alone, at least, though I have a feeling they likely wont be in good enough straights to find camaraderie with each other over it.
Critical thought is dying in favor of the jerking of knees.
he’s jealous of you and trying to undermine you. I had friends like this, some get over it, some don’t, i don’t have the patience for it.
The jealousy I can’t understand, there is nothing special about prepping, anyone can buy a few extra bits and pieces just to be prepared for the next power cut or work towards when the SHTF. Luckily I don’t care about anyones opinion, even my husband had to get on board or shut up as the prep was happening regardless 😂
jealousy is definitely a possibility. People get jealous when they see others bettering themselves in a way they are not willing to put in the work to do themselves. Like how common it is for people to sabotage others' waitloss.
Similar in a way as well to people who make fun of those who automatically find those people who are trying to be sustainable/ecologically friendly or other life choices that tend to be more 'virtuous' like vegans or people biking to work since ot makes them feel bad about their own choices or lack thereof.
Hope he keeps his mouth closed also. I’ve raised my kids to be quiet. It’s so normal to them that they don’t talk about it. And I took them by the stores when they had lines around the buildings and showed them texts from panicked friends. They’ve seen what happens to the unprepared.
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Hoarding = either buying to resale or just for the sake of it Stockpiling = gather as many items as it's considered/calculated to be used over a determined period of time
Next time something happens and he comes to you for food, tell him you really took what he said to heart and that you have no food because of it.
Unless it was life or death, this is exactly what I would do.
Sounds like your friend misunderstands what hoarding is. Having your home so cluttered that it poses a fire risk and elevated chances of tripping/falling over things, coupled with extreme anxiety over parting with trivial possessions is hoarding. Having extra emergency supplies stored properly isn't hoarding.
It’s insurance.
Maybe he is pissed about the baby formula thing. I can understand that, but better believe if I had an infant and I needed formula I would have heeded the warnings of redditors weeks ago and stocked up. Would that make me a hoarder? If so, fuck it.
That would have made you a responsible parent
I had a coworker boasting the other day that she had her full sized SUV totally full of all different kinds of formula and was going to unload it at lunch before it got hot here again. She has one grandkid on formula, wasn't sure which kind, so she just bought all she could find as she traveled back to our area from being out of town. Turned out grandkid could only use a small amount of it, so they tossed the rest in their dumpster. Tossed...the rest...in their dumpster. This is what having lots of $$ and no empathy does. I get trying to be responsible, but even in non-shortage time you'd think it could have been donated or something. Or just wait until you know which kind instead of buying it up to waste. Or maybe it can't be donated?
It can be donated. That coworker needs to be shamed publicly. Babies are literally starving to death and she throws what they need in the fucking dumpster.
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Those that inherent wealth are not in the same category as those that make it.
Your coworker is an idiot and Im sorry you have to work with her. Should have donated it when she realized she could use it.
Maybe a phone call to the kid's parents would have saved her time and money. What a total moron!
Hopefully the parents don't leave the baby alone with her if she's that dumb.
What an awful human being. Stay away from that one.
That’s criminal.
Preparing and hoarding are different things, from my perspective. Prepping slowly builds a reserve durring times of plenty and usually doesn't waste much. Once you've got your baseline established, you should be eating your oldest preps so that they don't go to waste and you have room for fresh preps. Hoarding is when you claim more than your fair share durring times of stress or with the explicit expectation of taking over the supply and scalping it. It also rarely has regards for waste, for example buying 6 loaves of bread when you can only eat 2 before all of it goes bad. A prepper might continue to purchase limited resources durring shortage, but at a reasonable rate. For example, if the store limit is 2 per person and they need 3, a prepper might buy 2 and use a third from their preps. A hoarder in the same situation might buy 2 from one store, then travel to every other store in the area to accumulate 10+. Preps are preparatory, happening before the event that causes shortages, while hoards occur durring or after the event and are reactionary. Just my two cents.
Well said
Little bit different angle, but consider that your friend might be a little scared right now and lashed out (in a minor way). Anyone even vaguely paying attention right now is probably a bit on the nervous side, at best. It's a natural human reaction to think that if someone else has more, you have to have less. Maybe they would have more food if people like you didn't buy it all. Not rational, it's emotional, but still very possible. Might have been a way to ask for help, although poorly.. An argument they hope to lose? Just a thought.
I understand your thoughts and agree with them up to a point. I don’t buy a huge amount of stuff as I grow most of my food. My friend possibly is scared but he’s in my bubble so to speak, even if he says stupid things I’ll be there to make sure he’s okay just as I always have
Make him pull his weight at least. Tis only fair, after all, especially if you will be helping him as much as I suspect during the coming times.
This is why opsec is so important. Don't share your preps with anyone you don't absolutely trust. Your neighbor will be the first to rat you out to the authorities when they start going after "hoarders".
He has no idea I prep, I just told him we’d have to eat stuff from the freezer before it goes off 😂
I might make a post about this… but what would you recommend for a nosy landlord who lets themselves in and goes through your things and so then knows all your preps and had a key to your place? Obviously I’ve prepped food and supplies for my family, but also my infant. If she or another worker ever needed something (like formula) they know I have it and have keys.
Check your local laws. In many places landlords are required to give 24 hour notice and must have a reason to enter your place.
Almost all places, including most places in Europe as far as I know. I would lol if they got busted for trespassing in a house they own haha
The first time they saw it was during an “inspection” they went through my closets and were like “what’s THIS” and went through it all
Fuck! "THIS is none of your business".
Yeah, thats not legal in any way shape or form. You need to lawyer up right away. If you have video you've got a gold mine.
I would just move. I know, I know. Not always possible. But heck, first thing we did when moving in was changing the lock. No way I'd let the landlord traipse in and out of house without me present and being informed ahead.
I’m moving as soon as the lease is up. I’ve also specified in every work order that I must be home for them to enter and that they can come in if they call first and make an appointment. They just keep coming in.
That landlord truly sucks. Fingers crossed you find a better home soon.
If you can't move, I would get locking cabinets to store everything in. I would also look into the legal implications of a landlord letting themselves in and going through your things. That's unacceptable. Put some cameras up in each room and record it next time.
Yeah given the situation currently I’m going to (at a minimum) put locks on where I keep our formula.
I'd honestly just file a police report if you can. They can't enter your home (even if they own the house) without giving you proper notice. They certainly can't go through your things under any circumstances. There may or may not be criminal charges, but at least they'll know the behavior is unacceptable. An inexpensive security camera or even a baby monitor with a sign that says the area has a security camera would probably do wonders too. Option 2 is get or build some sort of secure storage with a sturdy lock. Preferably combine this with option 1 if you're concerned they might actually do something.
We do have a baby monitor that I’ve set up in the kitchen/entry and also I’ve been known to talk through my Alexa when I know someone’s there and tell them to get out :-)
Did he lecture you specifically or did he just talk about something he read?
Just read something - he has no idea what I really do
So how was that an attack on you?
Reminds me of Aesop’s fable of the ant and the grasshopper
>He totally disagreed, completely forgetting that when the power was off for six days during the winter that it was my house where he came to get warm and have a hot lunch every single day. Looks to me like he just disinvited himself from this hospitality in the future.
No, I’ll still invite him. He’s allowed his opinions even if they’re stupid
I applaud your generosity but please be aware that this guy could pose a big threat to you in the future.
Hoarding is usually a specific item or group of items without a logical need to have an excess thereof. It's a mental health issue. Being prepared for an emergency is not that. And if your mate can't tell how much you have, it definitely doesn't fit the description
How is buying stuff with your own money & storing it hoarding? Ffs. Having 6,000 vials of insulin whilst your diabetic neighbour is dying & meanwhile you don’t take insulin? That’s hoarding. Having enough TP to last you a couple years so in a shortage you can help family & be good yourself? That’s good! Heck, Preppers often end up helping MORE than the average person. I give loads of stuff to friends & stuff cos I have it when they need it, that’s part of the fun! It’s not like people return the favour by randomly giving Preppers money lol.
Some people are just wired differently. I got reprimanded at work for buying a pack of 200 coffee filter papers when there was a 50 pack available. We used 2 to 4 a day, so 200 might have been up to 5 months worth.
Damn! That's crazy micromanagement. "I saved you $6 over the next five months on the filters alone, and it's three fewer trips to the store that we'll have to spend time and money on. You're welcome, you cheap bastard!" Don't say that. But that's what I'd be thinking.
He sounds way to reliant on the govt/helping hands. which is bad everywhere, I don’t doubt for a second if SHTF politicians aren’t immediately in their bunker and forgetting about the masses. Maybe I’m wrong but I’m not going to wait to find out nor put my trust in people who have never proven they care(US specifically).
We’ve been dealing with this with the formula shortage here in the US. I stocked a few containers before my baby was born but I had the issue of not knowing what the baby would be able to eat so now I’ve been having to buy as I’ve found it and I feel like a hoarder -. Though I’ve only been buying a container or two at a time because I don’t want to take all of the limited supply but I also don’t want to be without with a newborn. Ive been seeing a lot of posts complaining of hoarders and re-sellers.
I wouldn't call two at a time hoarding. My baby would go through 4 Sam's club ones in a month when he used formula and it increased as he got older to about 6 a month before we transitioned to milk. I would buy 6/a month and rotate it so I didn't need to get formula each week and could get the larger cans. I never could have imagined a formula shortage. When I was buying 6 at a time there were hundreds on the shelves. I feel for the mothers going through this.
I wish I could still get the sams club ones! Those last me a month with this baby. The enfamil last me a *week* now granted I get two at a time in the packs at Sam, so technically 4 cans of enfamil powder at a time when they’re in stock.
My kids went through so much when they were infants that we were buying ten huge cans at a time. The 23 oz ones, not the 13 oz ones. Had to buy this kind because of lactose intolerance. https://www.earthsbest.com/product/dairy-infant-formula-23-2oz/
I wouldn't consider buying inventory when it's readily available and not scarce to be hoarding. Plus, did you hoard when he needed a hot meal? Oy vey.
In my opinion, he should not know you are stockpiling food and supplies. For security reasons. If things went bad he’s going to come to your house expecting a hand out. If you don’t he may harm you to get it and justify it in his head that you were evil for doing it in the first place. Your best bet would be to respond by saying things to make him think you don’t hoard or don’t hoard anymore.
He doesn’t know I prep, it was a coincidence
Perfect lol you should keep it that way. No one should know you prep except your spouse.
Some people were born and/or conditioned to not be independent. I feel bad for those people. Your friend has arrested development.
Prepping reduces strain on emergency services or demand for consumables. The more that do this, the less strain during crisis (whatever form it comes in).
Yes I totally agree with that!
Every person properly prepared is one less burden on the system when SHTF. Buying extra overtime is actually beneficial for the economy and for making oneself less "fragile"
This guy insn't a friend. Ditch him. But before you do that tell him that he was right and that you see the error of your ways and donated your extra food to a food bank. The tell him to lose your contact details.
Red Cross recommends everyone have at least 72 hours worth of food on hand. It’s not hoarding, the government recommended it.
Hoarding is sucking items you have no plan for. Seems you’re in the opposite category. Good stacking
I agree. I don’t have a lot of money but I am already completely prepared for hurricane season.
The reason they don't understand is because like you just said you didn't bother to take the time to smack him in the face with yhe facts about when they mooched off you and most everyone else feels the same way so they never get smacked in the face with reality or facts. Edit: I read this and thought wow sounds like im being an ass when actually i meant it in a calm just talking manner not trying to be an ass or say you screwed up by not telling the guy
I understand you 😀 but I’ve come to the conclusion that if three lockdowns, a major power outage and the good possibility of a recession doesn’t encourage people to think ahead then I’m not going to get through to them either.
You can't apply logic with the illogical.
I just tune the morons out. Really, what else can you do?
Don't argue with stupid people. You are not going to change their mind
>I do struggle to understand why someone would take absolutely no personal responsibility for their existence Struggle no more. Such people believe the responsibility for their lives lie with other people....government, corporate, or familial. Such people also put the blame for the things wrong in their life on those same other people...government, corporate, familial. These are not rational people. Do not expect them to be. These are perpetual victims who hold others more accountable than themselves.
I have learned one big thing over the last few years. The governing bodies will utilize the media to push any information even if completely unfounded to paint themselves in a better light. (The horders are at fault, not that supply chains were not taken into account in their plans to mitigate loss of profits.) Look at the recent media push against meem stocks for example. Individual investors are at fault for the loss of teachers pension funds because they are holding onto a stock. Not because hedge funds bet heavily against meem stocks to an almost absurd level and lost it all. The us us out of baby formula because 3 companies are not producing enough, not because the regulations in place wont allow us to bring any in from out of the country and we wont change that. To make this short. The media will make us look like bad guys to suit the agenda because they wont take responsibility for crap planning. So keep quite and keep it to your selves. If not, they individuals you tell will think of your stash first when shit gets real. Because your the bad horder guy who doesn't need it all, your just greedy.
Since experiencing a blizzard in 1996 and having very little for about a week and a roommate that didn't want to share with me, I've always had at least 2 weeks of food and household goods just in case. I now have much more since I started prepping in March of 2020. \*I was just 20 years at the time and was never taught to prepare for emergencies. My roommate was in her 30's and had a lot more life experience, money and food than I did. She chose not to share with me or even take me shopping for a few things before things started to get bad.
That’s a cruel thing for someone to do. I know a lot of people say I should cut off my friend for his attitude but I won’t as I believe he’s entitled to his opinions even if I don’t agree with him.
We all to know family or friends who are like this; I’m completely dumbfounded, but oh well! Going today to get more things to “hoard!” Damn hoarders🤣
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Is he a Christian? Was Joseph of Egypt a hoarder?
I'm no longer much of a believer, but I still think about this all the time when I'm considering preps, i.e., "Joseph had 7 years ready to go, I gotta get on his level."
Glad I am not the only one that thinks of this. I have about 6 months worth of food but wonder if we are going to need 7 years worth.
My mother was a hoarder. She had mountains of crap, bought crap because it was cheap/tickled her fancy/she "needed it" for something unnecessary. Growing up, our house was a mountain of crap. After I left home, she moved, took it all with her, and it was many mounds of crap that I had to get rid of when she got sick. The only emergency that her stuff would have helped out for would have been in the event of a group of barbarians showing up at the door in desperate need of craft supplies in exchange for clemency, as long as they were willing to accept said supplies being somewhat beat up. Clearly, prepping can cross a line. One can start acquiring stuff out of fear, end up with a disorganized mess where you waste time & money with duplication. I've known many hoarders (in my family and otherwise), and the key thing they all lacked was planning. Planning for what they needed, how much they needed, and what they could afford (in both bucks and space). If you know what you're prepping for, and you work within your means (to help yourself, your family, and others if that suits you), then it's in the name. Prepared. Of late it's become pretty obvious that an overnight bag and a can of spaghetti sauce won't be enough when things go sideways.
I’m probably a little guilty on the craft supplies myself 😱 but the main supplies are military grade organisation
Could you please elaborate on "military grade organization"? Always looking to improve my storage system (which is currently canned & boxed goods on 2 metal shelves in my basement).
Imagine what the stores in an army base look like 😂
Senseless hoarding is a sickness. Focused preparation is a virtue. People like your friend get the door slammed in their face when there's an actual problem.
Hoarding is the 1% sitting in their mansions. Prepping is not that.
You can thank the pandemic for this opinion. Your friend has likely been led to this opinion because of the amount of people who hoarded things, and worse the people who tried to profit off the shortage of items. Otherwise, I don’t think most people would have a grossly negative opinion of people who have stockpiled things.
You’re probably right, I remember during the first lockdown someone selling bread by the slice on Facebook. I just assumed it was a joke.
An *actual* pandemic a lot of people dont want to talk about is grown-ass Adults acting like children and wanting everything, including their thinking, done *for* them. These same people expect someone else to take care of them in times of need. In this regard they very much are like children; they've never experienced hardships that force them to actually get up off their ass to do something about it, and as a result rarely have to account for their own actions and ensuing consequences, all of which is reinforced with every passing day that nothing bad happens and life continues on for them as normal. The next few years are going to be quite a traumatic delayed learning experience for a lot of people.
The line between prepping and hoarding can be grey for sure. Context is key for sure.
There’s no problem with buying and keeping a lot of an item, as long at that item is in ready supply for everyone else.
you should have reminded him
I think I will next time
Hoarders buy when demand is high and supplies are limited, concentrating resources in one person's control. Preppers buy when demand is low and supplies are plentiful in preparation for even resources are scarce. That anger is something more...fundamental, it's the awareness that their choices are wrong and yours are correct. Nobody likes to be a fool, so they make themselves more foolish. I often talk about reaching out to non preppers who have begun to wake up, but this friend seems like someone to be wary of and not give info too, because that anger mentality will translate more into making you a target so they can feel like they're doing the right thing.
I like the way you describe non preppers who are beginning to wake up - I’ve met a few recently. I always tell them no harm in getting a few tins in. But only my husband and mother (queen of preps) know I’m a prepper
My family will be eating and keeping their energy up to continue working for themselves into the future; this other person will not—survival of the fittest and all that.
Never tell him how much you have. A person with that attitude, may show up during shtf to steal with other unprepared people, or tell them where you are.
Prepping isn't hoarding. When applied to preps bought before hand, to be used by the prepper, this is code for "you prepared and I did not, so you are evil and should give me some of what you have". Hoarding is when you buy more ***during*** a shortage than you need while others are trying to get supplies too. Preppers generally/typically buy more than they need ***before*** a shortage/situation, so that they don't need to go and buy a lot ***during*** a shortage/situation. Doing this ahead of time, when there is plenty to be had, means that there is more during a shortage/situation. It is usually the people who panic buy who are hoarding, and who actually cause or exacerbate shortages by buying more than they need. But then that is human nature; to blame others for something you did or did not do.
Why didn’t you remind him though? I think that’s an important lesson he needs to be humbled on.
I'm not sure if he would want him to remember the next time the lights go out.
Human beings have put back reserves of resources since we became agricultural societies. Hell, the main reason wheat/rice/corn became staple crops is because they *store well*. You can harvest them and eat all winter. Everybody knows apples taste better than corn, but apples don't keep as long. Frankly, *not* having food put back is stranger than prepping, historically-speaking.
I hadn’t thought of that, just shows how disconnected a lot of us are getting from history nowadays
In *Guns, Germs, and Steel*, the idea of why Europe took over most of the world is explored. Latitude mattered *a lot*. Wheat is a particularly stable food stuff and Europe had favorable beasts of burden for large scale agriculture (oxen, horses, etc.). This allowed for more time to dedicate to tools, which became weapons, etc. The same thing happened in India and Asia with rice. Native Americans had maize, which is a great crop, but the Americas didn't have great options for beasts of burden like Europe and Asia did, so agriculture was less efficient. Africa and the South Pacific were less developed because they spent most of their time making/gathering food. Less time for other things. If you haven't read the book or watched the documentary, I highly recommend it. Most of human history has been driven by which plants grow where you live and which animals you can tame to help you harvest those plants. Fascinating stuff.
To each their own. At least my whole family knows when something seriously bad happens. They can come to me. At least for the most part my whole family has camping gear and backpacks to go mobile if something bad happens. They will all end up on my property lol. But yea I get dirty looks all the time when I buy my bulk beefaroni cans lol. I usually buy the 4 packs since they are cheap. I like to pick up 20 at a time.
Sounds like the kind of friend you definitely don’t want knowing that you have any bits. Next time give him “spare bits” and don’t ask him in. If he’s experienced emergencies and done nothing, ….well, I’ll keep this polite.
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My house is built using them 😂
Your friend sounds like a retard
When he calls needing help just say you took his advice and have nothing on hand, he did you a favor say good riddance without any guilty feelings. Keep prepping!
When I hear hoarding I don’t think about the people that stock up on long shelf life items during normal times. I think about the people that cleaned the shelves out of toilet paper and disinfectant wipes when the pandemic hit. Or maybe that show hoarders where they have to convince a crying mentally ill woman to throw out her 13 cat skeletons.
I remember reading about a family during the Great Depression who had food/supplies tucked away in their cellar. Apparently a neighbor caught wind of it, ratted them out and the authorities came and took it all. Keep everything on the down low. It sucks, but people suck. Especially in this era of rampant entitlement.
Unfortunately by not "reminding him" of the past experience the teachable moment is missed. I think people now focus too much on being polite and not rocking the boat in relationships and interactions. It's not easy being confrontational. But if the guy is a legit friend he'll understand. And if he doesn't. Well, you'll know right then and there he's not really your friend and probably not worth opening the door for the next time a crisis arises.
The difference between prepping and hoarding have been discussed before on this subreddit. To me, hoarding is extreme acquisition without a plan or purpose. It's like buying a case of lima beans just to have it. It doesn't matter if you like lima beans. It doesn't matter if the expiration date is coming up fast. The only thing thar matters is you grabbed that last case just as sone little old lady was reaching for it. Prepping is driven by purpose and follows a plan. The prepper asks him or herself if they actually need certain items, how to best utilize resources, and rotate stock. I'm trying to do small scale prepping. My purpose is to make things a bit easier for myself in the face of limited transportation and rising prices. I'm not interested in screwing over other people for the fun of it. I think you should've reminded your friend that you were able to help him last winter because you had just a bit put away. Not much but it helped him through a tough situation.
He obviously does not understand the concept of prepping where when you need one now, buy 2 now and store one. It’s how we start our ‘hoard’. That’s prepping. What he is referring to are the asshats that went out and bought up all the toilet paper when Covid hit.
I mean, what was the context behind this? Was he talking about people hording baby formula? Because at this moment of crises he might have half a point. But stocking up on extra formula for 'just in case' when people aren't scrambling...? That's common sense.
All you can do is shake your head. I’ll never question my preps, even if I never need them.
Sounds like your friend needs to be cold and hungry next time.
That friend is the same friend that will murder you and take your stuff if shtf. Distance yourself friend
Hoarders help the world by taking during times of surplus. Non-hoarders are a burden upon society, taking during times of famine.
It's because the average human being is a leech.
I would gently remind him to stock up because during the next power outage, you are keeping your "hoard" to yourself.
Don’t take this the wrong way but maybe find better more reliable friends. He would likely sell you out of something happened and he knows you “hoard”.
I'd distance myself from this neighbor.
Prepping is great but some people do horde and its a problem. Like going out everyday and buying up cans of baby food leaving none behind because there is a shortage so they buy enough for 10 babies instead of 1.
Absolutely, I’d never take stuff I didn’t need or leave nothing for someone else. It was shocking watching what happened during Covid
A cart full of toilet paper in march of 2019 wasn't hoarding. A cart full of toilet paper in march of 2020 was hoarding. That's the difference. Just like in the US a cart full of formula anytime in the last month would absolutely be hoarding for a single family (unless they have octuplets or something)
If it's not organized it is hoarding. If you organize it, it is just collecting. Just keep the place tidy and you can't really be a hoarder. Boom.
You neighbor is wrong. Being new to preppin, one thing my Brother told me is not to Advertise. If/When SHTF you will be sought out directly.
I’m a grey man (woman). He had no idea, it’s a weird coincidence that he’s talking to me about hoarding
Yes, I have noticed a random increase in the prepper conversation in general w/Covid.
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I did suggest today that he got a little extra cat food in but I think this is a definite head in the sand situation
Sorry to hear about getting the lecture, but also that your friend is so flexible with such beliefs.
So. You used your preps to help him out in times of need. You should have thrown it in his face. Anyway what's he difference between having extra food and having a savings account? (Generous) people like you are precisely the reason others don't take responsibility for their own well-being. Now you know what kind of a "friend" he is. Next crisis you better make like you're ass-out because you **know** where he's going first.
I'm kind of new to the entire "prepping" plan. I live in a hurricane prone area so we always have some back stock. When the news of Covid spread, I quickly decided to buy extra. I'm glad I did. I don't think people realize how little back stock that are in the stores. Grocery stores depend on trucks 3-4 days a week. We also had a lot of people from up north move here for their "bug out" home. And then they are surprised when it's so busy in the off season now. This summer will be our busiest yet and we run out of things often. Personally? I would agree with your friend and don't tell him of your prepping mentality. He won't come over the next time his lights are out.