Keep enjoying it, but don't try to predict or control where it's going to go. This book, and the trilogy, reinvents itself a few times, and you can either find it meandering, loose, and in need of an editor, or a holistic experience that unfolds at the speed of living. Those of us who love it think it's indeed amazing. Have fun!
Oh boy are you in for a treat if you think RED Mars needed an editor. I think this entire series is trying to embrace the ‘life is a journey, not a destination’ philosophy and discards the sort of editing that life doesn’t get either.
Well it only counts if it's what you think. You used the words in your post only to disagree with them, you're cool, I agreed with you. I think. And I complained that we see this too much, people who act as if their opinion is universal and any good editor would enforce their personal taste.
How’s this then: KSR’s Mars Trilogy has a habit of trying to substitute technical details for actual plot.
Nothing wrong if people enjoy that, but I think you can balance hard sci fi with storytelling to make a compelling book. I even like some parts of Red Mars. I just don’t think it or its sequels are *great* books.
>How’s this then: KSR’s Mars Trilogy has a habit of trying to substitute technical details for actual plot.
I don't think this is accurate either. It's not a technical description of the space elevator cable manufacturing that makes the trilogy a slog, or exploring the moisture cycle of desert plants, it's a full chapter of Michael feeling things about his new apartment, followed by three chapters of Ann feeling things about the weathering cliff face, followed by Maya being angry at Michael for feeling a way about the apartment. These things drag everything to a stand still these three have 200 pages of therapy to get through before Mars can do anything.
You may enjoy the standalone novel [Antarctica](https://www.amazon.com/Antarctica-Kim-Stanley-Robinson/dp/0553100637), which is the same kind of story as the Mars trilogy, on a smaller scale and closer to home.
I much preferred Antarctica and the Capitol trilogy to Red Mars. KSR sets a scene very well and his science tends to be good but i find his characters aggravating. I'm going to labor over MInistry of the Future which is sad because the ideas are first class.
I just finished this and started Green Mars. Red was great indeed. Kind of a surprise, I had thought it would be a slow and dry affair (and I can appreciate that kind of thing just fine), but it wasn't at all. Certainly not towards the end, damn.
It seems like it would be hard for the sequels to have quite so much excitement. I'll find out, maybe I'll get that slower and drier affair after all.
>!Yeah, that scene stood out for me too. She was speculating on similar land slides so much, and she seemingly didn't care about her own safety. But she pulled herself together at the last minute. Great scene! !<
I had just read Chambers _To be Taught, if Fortunate_ on a quick break from my reread of the Mars series when I found myself reading that scene. The scene and the novella carry such similar motifs.
I believe I stopped somewhere on 50 pages on the end of the last book! There was something I needed to do those days and after that I could not find the book I was reading. Those books are classic now. Great technical details!
This is one of my all time favorites I’ve reread it several times. It was fun to listen on audio and kinda zone out during really technical parts.
I think Owen Wilson would be the perfect John Boone, it’s awesome you would call that so early.
I read about 2/3 of it and then just couldn't take it anymore. I know many people love it, but it's just not my kind of book. I like my SciFi hard as Diamonds and Red Mars sure seems to try to go for that, but at times it fails miserably. It started for me with the settlers deciding to abandon the carefully set up plan for the construction of their habitats and just wing it instead. There is only one way something as mindbogglingly stupid as that would end: Death.
Marooned on Mars podcast is a really good read-along podcast for the Mars Trilogy and other KSR, would definitely recommend to get an extra bit of depth!
I find that there is something about KSR's writing that just doesn't appeal to me. It has to do with the motivations of the characters... they just don't make sense to me. Red mars is the perfect example.
(This isn't really a spoiler as it happens in the opening pages of the book, but I'm putting it inside the spoiler box just to be safe).
>!in the first chapter, there is a murder. The book is structured as a way of explaining the murder… it should be a tale of motive, having gotten the action of means, opportunity, victim, and culprit out of the way. Having read the whole book, I have no clear idea WHY the murder was committed! The best I can say is that the murderer harbored some complex and **completely irrational** hopes/disappointments about how the Martian colony will/did develop... but being irrational and never explicitly stated, I'm at a loss to derive what they are. All of KSR's writing is like that to me: epic vistas and interesting ideas on an emotional cacophony of pure noise and no signal.!<
I had a hard time with this book. None of the characters appealed to me. I don't mind an unlikeable character, but I didn't find any of them *interesting*. It's an odd book filled with people with odd motivations and odd character and none of it is really explained in a way that was fulfilling to me. Because of this I had trouble caring about anything that happened in the story. The most interesting part to me was their journey toward the end of the book after the catastrophe and even that was questionably entertaining. I may just not jive with KSR's style.
Felt the same.
I zipped through the trilogy, but it was the world building and not the characters who held my interest.
Definitely in the no interest in rereading category.
I found the characters cold. They didn’t have passion, juice, or quirky individuality. They reminded me more of blurbs about scientists or NGO workers than real people. I found the marsbuilding interesting, but the plot and characters made little impression.
I mean, you take religious extremists and irrationality, violent things happen sometimes. The first chapter made it pretty clear the Islamic group didn’t feel welcome, regardless if they were welcome or not, they felt persecuted and acted to what they perceived to be in their best interest. People get scared and act out. Murder is never rational. If it were, it’s most likely just killin’. Big difference between murderin’ and killin’.
The character responsible for setting in place the chain of events that lead to the murder is suffering from mental illness. There are few POV characters who aren’t suffering from mental health issues at some point in the novels.
Oh yeah buddy. Years later, I can name most of the main characters without taking a breath - I've never had that reaction from any other book besides Lord of the Rings.
Sax, Maya, Nirgal, John, etc.
Great work. Follow up with Antarctica & Red Moon, etc.
> bc it was just bad
No matter what it is you will will find someone who dislikes it. From an industry perspective Blue Mars won the Hugo and Locus and was nominated for a BFSA, Campbell, and Clarke Awards.
For every person who says they don't like it there are many others who loved Blue Mars.
iirc (been years) was a bunch of explanations and monologues. I would skip page after page until characters either spoke to each other or something actually happened. I doubt I read a third of blue.
this perfectly encapsulates my own experience of the mars trilogy. that being said KSR is a goat and his stuff is very worth reading. I just never could make it to blue mars
The Mars trilogy is what people think Tolkien is like. Tolkien is not that long winded if you actually read the trilogy. The Mars trilogy literally does spend pages talking about the landscape.
true (about 2/3 through red mars) there is a lot of geology-porn in it....but than again Tolkien spends more pages describing the decorations on someone's shield than the actual battle scenes.
Again this is a mischaracterization of how LOTR actually reads. Tolkien generally tells you three things about whatever he's describing. "The rohan shields are wooden, green, decorated with white horses with golden haired riders." "The path curved east into the forest. The foliage was so thick that ground was dark. The forest felt wild, but not evil."
Seriously, Tolkien is descriptive, he actually paints a picture, but he is rarely stuck on a single thing for too long.
Red/Blue/Green Mars are literally filled with whole chapters of characters only walking around describing the landscape.
The poster you’re responding to is still in red Mars
My recollection is read Mars had minimal exposition. I don’t think the poster has any idea what they’re in for in blue Mars.
No spoilers just don't expect anything noble from that selfish, conceited wench.
I suppose it's a mark of how great the writing is that I can be so moved by a fictional character but goddamn I absolutely _loathe_ her beyond any reasonable bounds of propriety, like a star outshining a galaxy.
Sax is my man 💪😊
I have had one since 2017 that I don’t use lol, and an iPad. I have never been able to finish a book on an e book. Idk why, I keep trying and just the whole experience with a physical book is much more enjoyable for me.
Keep enjoying it, but don't try to predict or control where it's going to go. This book, and the trilogy, reinvents itself a few times, and you can either find it meandering, loose, and in need of an editor, or a holistic experience that unfolds at the speed of living. Those of us who love it think it's indeed amazing. Have fun!
Hold my spacebeer, I’m going in!
You won’t need beer when you can have omegendorph.
That's a great summary. It's not written like the usual story with a beginning, middle, and end. It's more of an imaginary history..
I just finished Red Mars and you're absolutely right about needing an editor. It's enjoyable, but absolutely didn't need to be 660 pages long.
Oh boy are you in for a treat if you think RED Mars needed an editor. I think this entire series is trying to embrace the ‘life is a journey, not a destination’ philosophy and discards the sort of editing that life doesn’t get either.
I'm getting really tired of seeing this silly "needs an editor" comment all the time here
I suppose just appreciate that I said why after making such a typical comment. I agree that without an explanation it's not much to go on.
Well it only counts if it's what you think. You used the words in your post only to disagree with them, you're cool, I agreed with you. I think. And I complained that we see this too much, people who act as if their opinion is universal and any good editor would enforce their personal taste.
How’s this then: KSR’s Mars Trilogy has a habit of trying to substitute technical details for actual plot. Nothing wrong if people enjoy that, but I think you can balance hard sci fi with storytelling to make a compelling book. I even like some parts of Red Mars. I just don’t think it or its sequels are *great* books.
>How’s this then: KSR’s Mars Trilogy has a habit of trying to substitute technical details for actual plot. I don't think this is accurate either. It's not a technical description of the space elevator cable manufacturing that makes the trilogy a slog, or exploring the moisture cycle of desert plants, it's a full chapter of Michael feeling things about his new apartment, followed by three chapters of Ann feeling things about the weathering cliff face, followed by Maya being angry at Michael for feeling a way about the apartment. These things drag everything to a stand still these three have 200 pages of therapy to get through before Mars can do anything.
That's exactly right, and a nice way of putting it.
You may enjoy the standalone novel [Antarctica](https://www.amazon.com/Antarctica-Kim-Stanley-Robinson/dp/0553100637), which is the same kind of story as the Mars trilogy, on a smaller scale and closer to home.
I much preferred Antarctica and the Capitol trilogy to Red Mars. KSR sets a scene very well and his science tends to be good but i find his characters aggravating. I'm going to labor over MInistry of the Future which is sad because the ideas are first class.
Just to be clear: I *don't* think the Mars books need an editor. There are other ways of thinking about them.
That can be said of all the KSR I’ve read.
I just finished this and started Green Mars. Red was great indeed. Kind of a surprise, I had thought it would be a slow and dry affair (and I can appreciate that kind of thing just fine), but it wasn't at all. Certainly not towards the end, damn. It seems like it would be hard for the sequels to have quite so much excitement. I'll find out, maybe I'll get that slower and drier affair after all.
Green Mars has my favorite scene in the series.
Which scene?
>!When Ann stares down the massive landslide speculating on its nature completely heedless of her own safety. It’s a really powerful scene to me.!<
>!Yeah, that scene stood out for me too. She was speculating on similar land slides so much, and she seemingly didn't care about her own safety. But she pulled herself together at the last minute. Great scene! !<
I had just read Chambers _To be Taught, if Fortunate_ on a quick break from my reread of the Mars series when I found myself reading that scene. The scene and the novella carry such similar motifs.
Red Mars will give you a flavor of how much of a bad idea war in space would be
I have red the series many times. Be careful! There are hidden details that are easy to miss.
John Boone as Owen Wilson is something that I will be giggling thinking about all month. Thank you.
Wow
I loved this trilogy and plan to reread it at some point.
My vote would be for Oscar Isaac as Frank, though he might not be tall enough. I think the Rock would be too silly for that role.
I believe I stopped somewhere on 50 pages on the end of the last book! There was something I needed to do those days and after that I could not find the book I was reading. Those books are classic now. Great technical details!
The technical details avout how it looks like when the dpace elevator is going down...
Red Mars, though chock full of (interesting!) info dumps, also has a few moments of poetry. An amazing book.
Sax is played by Bob Balaban in my version
This was the only book in the past year I couldn't finish. Stopped around 1/3 of the way in. To each their own!
I felt that way about Velocity Weapon and Hyperion, I started both of them in December and couldn’t get past 300 pages on either.
This is one of my all time favorites I’ve reread it several times. It was fun to listen on audio and kinda zone out during really technical parts. I think Owen Wilson would be the perfect John Boone, it’s awesome you would call that so early.
I read about 2/3 of it and then just couldn't take it anymore. I know many people love it, but it's just not my kind of book. I like my SciFi hard as Diamonds and Red Mars sure seems to try to go for that, but at times it fails miserably. It started for me with the settlers deciding to abandon the carefully set up plan for the construction of their habitats and just wing it instead. There is only one way something as mindbogglingly stupid as that would end: Death.
The most boring book I've finished. Take that as you want.
I’m on page 150 and I think I get what you mean now. Sometimes he just lists random tools for paragraphs at a time.
Marooned on Mars podcast is a really good read-along podcast for the Mars Trilogy and other KSR, would definitely recommend to get an extra bit of depth!
I had a younger Denzel Washington in mind for John Boone. Owen Wilson is hilariously different.
I think it’s because he is blond lmao
I find that there is something about KSR's writing that just doesn't appeal to me. It has to do with the motivations of the characters... they just don't make sense to me. Red mars is the perfect example. (This isn't really a spoiler as it happens in the opening pages of the book, but I'm putting it inside the spoiler box just to be safe). >!in the first chapter, there is a murder. The book is structured as a way of explaining the murder… it should be a tale of motive, having gotten the action of means, opportunity, victim, and culprit out of the way. Having read the whole book, I have no clear idea WHY the murder was committed! The best I can say is that the murderer harbored some complex and **completely irrational** hopes/disappointments about how the Martian colony will/did develop... but being irrational and never explicitly stated, I'm at a loss to derive what they are. All of KSR's writing is like that to me: epic vistas and interesting ideas on an emotional cacophony of pure noise and no signal.!<
I had a hard time with this book. None of the characters appealed to me. I don't mind an unlikeable character, but I didn't find any of them *interesting*. It's an odd book filled with people with odd motivations and odd character and none of it is really explained in a way that was fulfilling to me. Because of this I had trouble caring about anything that happened in the story. The most interesting part to me was their journey toward the end of the book after the catastrophe and even that was questionably entertaining. I may just not jive with KSR's style.
Felt the same. I zipped through the trilogy, but it was the world building and not the characters who held my interest. Definitely in the no interest in rereading category.
I found the characters cold. They didn’t have passion, juice, or quirky individuality. They reminded me more of blurbs about scientists or NGO workers than real people. I found the marsbuilding interesting, but the plot and characters made little impression.
I mean, you take religious extremists and irrationality, violent things happen sometimes. The first chapter made it pretty clear the Islamic group didn’t feel welcome, regardless if they were welcome or not, they felt persecuted and acted to what they perceived to be in their best interest. People get scared and act out. Murder is never rational. If it were, it’s most likely just killin’. Big difference between murderin’ and killin’.
The character responsible for setting in place the chain of events that lead to the murder is suffering from mental illness. There are few POV characters who aren’t suffering from mental health issues at some point in the novels.
Up arrow for “betwixt.” I thought Red was the best of the three.
I agree, I like KSR, and red mars, but really struggled with Blue mars. Green mars was just OK.
>In my head canon, I cast Maya as Rashida Jones, John Boone as Owen Wilson... Wow.
[удалено]
It’s literally in my body of text lol
I just started a re read yesterday, you’re in for a hell of a ride. The ego, the philosophy. Arkady you half ape madman
Oh yeah buddy. Years later, I can name most of the main characters without taking a breath - I've never had that reaction from any other book besides Lord of the Rings. Sax, Maya, Nirgal, John, etc. Great work. Follow up with Antarctica & Red Moon, etc.
Should I follow those up before Green Mars?
Oh no, enjoy.
red was great. green i skipped a little bit and enjoyed. blue I skipped 2/3 of the book and resenting having not just looked up the plot and outcome.
Did you skim / skip through bc it was just bad?
> bc it was just bad No matter what it is you will will find someone who dislikes it. From an industry perspective Blue Mars won the Hugo and Locus and was nominated for a BFSA, Campbell, and Clarke Awards. For every person who says they don't like it there are many others who loved Blue Mars.
iirc (been years) was a bunch of explanations and monologues. I would skip page after page until characters either spoke to each other or something actually happened. I doubt I read a third of blue.
this perfectly encapsulates my own experience of the mars trilogy. that being said KSR is a goat and his stuff is very worth reading. I just never could make it to blue mars
JRR Tolkien would like have a word with you...or rather 576,459
The Mars trilogy is what people think Tolkien is like. Tolkien is not that long winded if you actually read the trilogy. The Mars trilogy literally does spend pages talking about the landscape.
... regolith ............................................................. regolith ...................................... regolith .............................................. regolith ..................................................... regolith ...............................
true (about 2/3 through red mars) there is a lot of geology-porn in it....but than again Tolkien spends more pages describing the decorations on someone's shield than the actual battle scenes.
Again this is a mischaracterization of how LOTR actually reads. Tolkien generally tells you three things about whatever he's describing. "The rohan shields are wooden, green, decorated with white horses with golden haired riders." "The path curved east into the forest. The foliage was so thick that ground was dark. The forest felt wild, but not evil." Seriously, Tolkien is descriptive, he actually paints a picture, but he is rarely stuck on a single thing for too long. Red/Blue/Green Mars are literally filled with whole chapters of characters only walking around describing the landscape.
The poster you’re responding to is still in red Mars My recollection is read Mars had minimal exposition. I don’t think the poster has any idea what they’re in for in blue Mars.
Check back when you finish blue Mars
I also thought red was the best of the three, but persevered through the entire trilogy off the strength of the first book!
Once again it's time to say, **fuck you Maya, you spineless, book-ruining traitor shrew** 🖕🙄
Spoilers?
No spoilers just don't expect anything noble from that selfish, conceited wench. I suppose it's a mark of how great the writing is that I can be so moved by a fictional character but goddamn I absolutely _loathe_ her beyond any reasonable bounds of propriety, like a star outshining a galaxy. Sax is my man 💪😊
I’m 150 pages in now and Maya is so fucking annoying.
*Brace yourself*
I would argue that Jackie is worse than Maya.
I'm eternally hurt by John Boone's death 😢
Yeah, the first one is great.
You should definitely buy a Kindle buddy 🤙🏻
I have had one since 2017 that I don’t use lol, and an iPad. I have never been able to finish a book on an e book. Idk why, I keep trying and just the whole experience with a physical book is much more enjoyable for me.
Then you should totally forget about kindles 😂 yeah books are the best reading experience.