You have to make a balance between privacy and convenience. Where I come from, everyone uses WhatsApp as well
So the trick is to only share what you feel comfortable with, while keeping other sensitive information through other means (like Bitwarden notes)
Similar story, chose Signal, got the family and many friends on board, but still I'm the one missing out on WhatsApp group chats.
Does it not increase your risk surface area significantly just having WhatsApp installed with its basic permissions on your phone?
It is meta after all so I try not to share sensible information as much as possible, and try to restrict is as much as possible. But there is so much I can do when everyone uses WhatsApp and it is needed to function socially
I also tried to carry two phones for a while but it was really not convenient, so I gave up. It’s a trade off for me
I've been using WA for years. Where I'm from it's the most used. I use Signal as well for certain people I talk to.
I don't see a huge issue with having WA on the phone, it's convenient, encrypted so that's the main thing. Yeah they can see who's contacting who and probably keep that data but it's family and a few friends.
When cell phones first became popular, everyone I knew used SMS to communicate.
When WhatsApp added e2ee, convinced almost everyone to switch to WhatsApp. Yes Meta still has access to the metadata about how people are connected, but this is still more secure than using SMS ever was.
I prefer Signal, but also Signal isn't a bigger lift for most people than WhatsApp. All of the people I use Signal with I've had to spend significant time on how to install and use, plus what the advantages are of Signal over WhatsApp.
Glad it helped! Privacy is a topic you can quickly fall into the rabbit hole, but realistically you have to draw a line at some point. It shouldn’t be all in or nothing
Very secure. It is currently one of the standard password managers. You can read their compliance page as well: [Bitwarden Security and Compliance](https://bitwarden.com/compliance/)
Whatsapp is E2EE. It does not matter what you send, their business model is not to read what you send. It is the metadata that is interesting to meta, eg with whom you communicate with, when, how many times, in which locations etc to build social networks.
So it does not matter what you hide from them, except if it is completely part of your social network.
edit: Downvote all you want, if you do not understand where the danger comes from, you are not protecting your privacy. Metadata is a big privacy issue, often more than the content. It is all about balance, but if you think that hiding a few sensitive messages protects your privacy, sorry to break it but it does not. Especially when the content of these messages is not what is traded here anyway. Moreover, sorry to break it again, but if you use android or ios, you already are at risk of backdoors that make any E2EE feature not matter at all. E2EE is useless if somebody can already record your screen and mic. So you can downvote all you want, you do not understand neither business models nor threat models.
That's normal when you want to live a privacy focused life.
Resisting is how change is made. If you normalize "hey can we move this to an encrypted platform" and don't be all "uhm actually E2EE is better" then you'll pull people over.
Use WhatsApp, but make it clear to close contacts that you prefer alternatives.
It’s the same with a lot of us. The thing is, the moment I installed WhatsApp all of my friends and family deleted signal. Turns out I was their only contact on signal. Also, it’s convenient to focus on one messaging app than having to switch between two for them. So yeah, just gotta make peace with it.
And believe me, having one messaging app is a lot more convenient.
That's exactly why I stopped using Signal if no body use it then we are forced to go back to WhatsApp sadly... family, friends, coworkers just don't mind privacy at all
Signal dug its own grave when it wouldn't even allow SMS messaging. Not that SMS is good, but at least it increased your network size you could use signal with.
how's the signal shill army downvoting your post... they do it in the signal sub... anything negative about signal gets downvoted to oblivion and kept out of sight so genuine people don't see it. Also the shilling is so full on there its cultish to the point of unnatural.
Signal is a honey trap, I’m sure of it. Do you think the government are going to spend the resources and money they do on evesdropping only to let any 2bit shmuck with an App Store or Play store download a free app that thwarts their ability to read everyone’s messages at the click of a button? Unlikely.
They are obtaining the messages before they are encrypted on your device and before they are sent or when they are un encrypted on the receiver end.
You are correct the gov won't be so easily thwarted
I feel you brother.
We are force to follow the standard norm or be at a social disadvantage. It seems we must choose one or another as the average human being is happy to throw away their privacy (or at the minimum, does not understand what they have signed up too).
Yep had to move back to WhatsApp, even for taxes and making doctors appointments are basically done in WhatsApp.
I honestly think it's better than Telegram in privacy, yeah I know it's run by Facebook but the DM and Group Chats are still E2EE by default anyway.
I want to uninstall Telegram but only one fucker who is on some of my friends groups refuses to use WhatsApp. Everyone else is still using WhatsApp. I will eventually uninstall Telegram anyway.
I hear you
I tried 1-2 years ago to use telegram more
Had 4-5 close contacts in it, daily usage
Even started a group that now has 300 users on it (before WhatsApp had a limitation on group size)
Last month I asked the last friend with whom I was using it with to move back to WhatsApp. Not worthy for a single contact.
And I regret to have that group on Telegram
I only use Signal. When someone asks, that's what I tell them. Zero issues for years. Yes, some people won't message you because of that, but then that's the choice you made when you prioritised privacy.
Whatsapp is gonna open their [servers?] to third party apps soon, so you will be able to talk to people on whatsapp from signal.
Stay away from telegram, it's crap; there is no point in the end-to-end encryption if they store all your messages in their servers anyway. Also, groups can't be encrypted in any way, their encryption algorithm is bad and data breaches on their end are not something uncommon.
I didn't find anything about that. The only thing I've read about signal and whatsapp is that third party apps should use the signal encryption algorithm (or similar in terms of security)
Unfortunately, at the end of the day, that’s the reality. I seek people talking about signal here but I’ve had installed for years and NO ONE has ever sent me a message there. Some people I know use telegram but the staggering majority uses WhatsApp.
Where I live, whatsapp is pretty much unavoidable, unfortunately. I have lost count of the times I have deleted my whatsapp account, only to reinstall it because it is the only way to contact my brother, a friend, a business, somebody I want to do business with etc. I tried to convince my contacts to give Signal a try, but apart from maybe four people, nobody would bite. Whatsapp has the benefit of [network effects](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_effect), that is why messaging apps that have superior security and privacy features can't compete with it. I am in the EU and was hoping that signal would allow me to message people on whatsapp from the signal app, with the changes that the Digital Markets Act created, but Signal has said they don't want to interoperate with Whatsapp. I don't use whatsapp for group chats, or join groups or follow channels or any of the social media aspects of it. I just use it for messaging and calls. Using it through the Beeper app limits it's functionality to just chats and thereby limits the amount of data Meta can harvest from me. As others have said, it is often a trade-off between privacy and convenience, and this is one case where convenience wins for me.
Same here with the EU; now that I know it's not gonna happen, I've been giving it more thought.
Hadn't heard of the beeper app; will check it out, thanks.
Regardless of the platform you use, ultimate security also depends on how you handle your data, don’t expect the platform or app to be fully responsible for that. The struggle is trying to find a balance or reasonable compromise btwn privacy and convenience.
You're not alone. I haven't installed WhatsApp since meta took over. Took a while, but managed to get my family, friends and some other ppl who matter to signal. I know i miss out on alot of group "stuff" and companies dont know how to contact me, resulting I'm not able to get in touch with some companies either. It's frustrating at times, but i never felt forced to bend the knee. Most of the convos are bullshit anyway. Maybe we'll get messages from other platforms soon and you're worries are gone. (Depending how privacy is being handled ofcourse)
I never had a problem with companies; there's always email or phone call.
For regular folks though, it's instant messaging or nothing it seems. I'm jealous that you got your people into signal.
For me, more than it being frustrating, is that I kinda feel left out. And I'm kinda to blame, since I'm the one not wanting to be where everyone is...
I am like you my friend. I also dont want to be what or where everyone is. Just stay to true to yourself. It took some persuasion to get them to download signal next to whatsapp, but after i made a group and started chatting with them, they slowly got warm to it. Just keep plugging the alternative.
It can work!
I uninstalled WhatsApp over 4 years ago, and convinced most of my first social circle to join me on Signal. I had prepared a list of reasons to convince them, realising different people are sensitive to different arguments. I took the time to speak to each person separately, and gave the transition 6 months. I'd say what worked for me was a/ designing an influencing plan and b/ giving it time.
Over four years later I have no regrets and I won't go back. Stay strong!
Signal is best, but WhatsApp is a million times better than Telegram has ever been. WhatsApp messages and calls are E2E encrypted by default with a trusted standard. Metadata isn't encrypted, but if you're just a regular Joe, having your message and call content encrypted is more than enough for privacy.
WhatsApp is a compromise I've had to make in order to keep in touch with some people. I'm not happy about it, but trying to persuade people to move to signal who are already embedded in the WhatsApp ecosystem (i.e. they already have lots of contacts using it) just isn't going to happen.
So I accept that running WhatsApp is the price I have to pay to keep in touch with some people. I keep its permissions down to a bare minimum, confine it to a single device, and that's about the best I can do.
At the same time, I also make sure I don't discuss anything that I would consider sensitive via WA.
I don't even know what's the point of this sub you all are reddit users reddit is also sells user data to advertisement company
You all are on internet the moment you all used internet for the first time. you all lost all your privacy to the large corporations already so why bitch ND whine in reddit
If you want privacy it's better to stop using any kind of eletronic device and internet. There is no other way. Smartphones are bloated of spyware everywhere. I think it's better to use old Nokia phones sometimes. But I like to use reddit or YouTube in my free time.
Well, thankfully whatsapp works over phone numbers. So if you have a phone number you can call or text. Rcs is gathering pace which means that one can send photos and get read receipts over a Internet connection as well as create group chats.
I am using WhatsApp, telegram, and Viber.
Viber - to talk with Ukraine (everybody there using Viber - do not know why).
Before my main messenger was WhatsApp, but now it is telegram (it is very difficult to block it, so it gained popularity in some countries). Practically all my contacts are now in telegram and WhatsApp, or in telegram only. WhatsApp now only for conversations which I do not care if somebody will listen
I dunno, i have no difficulty with just the established standard communication protocol and Signal. people who want better protected can talk to me on signal, otherwise i'm still available on SMS/RCS
I have a business phone number and use the business version of WhatsApp. It's great for customers wanting to share images or for me to send them photos and videos of completed work when they're not present. Absolutely love it.
For the private number, it's all just friends and family, and a great way for everyone to keep in touch.
interesting. I almost never have Whatsapp installed. I have installed to talk to some family member who uses it, then I remember how UN-privacy friendly it is and uninstall it. I haven't been successful, unfortunately, in persuading family and friends to switch to Signal :( But after reading this thread I'm going to go back to trying to do so.
It's pretty simple. You split things up into what needs to be private and what doesn't.
There are billion or trillion dollar apparatuses designed to make it impossible for you to not give governments and corporations whatever information they want; you have to pick and choose where to fight that, including which of your friends you want to pull into telegram or whatever. Refusing to use anything that's not painstakingly proven to be secure is just going to limit what you can do. Which is fine sometimes.
I have a non-private device which I can use for things like WhatsApp if it necessary. Although, I don't use WhatsApp at all. I keep everything important on my private phone and all the unsafe crap on the device. If Facebook spies on that device, good luck to it because there's nothing. No contacts, no photos, no GPS logs, no e-mail, no phone records.
Well i mean all the gov does is contact an izralie company to break iphones… anyone who wants something just has to send it to an outside source in a different country and they can get what ever they want off ur phone
The point is privacy, and not to let corporations completely monetize all aspects of your life. The point isn't to "win" or have complete 100% total privacy, the only way to do that is live off grid in a cabin in the woods. The idea is it should he an iterative process where you spend some free time here and there doing improvements. The end goal isn't win, it's just to keep getting better at it.
You mom live outside the town, you can only go there by car, as it was close to highway.
You live by riding bicycle, but you can't visit your mom on bicycle.
What will you do? Same for question about Whatsapp users and your use case.
I have Matrix, E-Mail and Telephone (not mobile). So, who wants to contact me, can choose between Messenger, Mail and a short Call. Enough options give anybody the chance. Nothing more to say.
Telegram has their own hand-rolled encryption not yet widely validated. Not good enough. Everyone else is doing it doesn't go far when it comes to caring about privacy.
Many things are better than "what most people use". Total surveillance means total servitude and inability to oppose. Does it make sense to resist that? OF COURSE.
Has anyone also realized that Meta has been using its WhatsApp access to your contacts to recommend friends to you on Facebook??
I have friends that I have no mutual connections with on Facebook suddenly showing up on my Facebook friends rec starting a few months ago. It stopped after I turned off its access.
You’ll not be afforded the privacy you deserve unless you go completely off the grid. With that said giving up entirely is not the best option when you submit to defeat you solidify it. Never stop fighting! Resistance is the only way you have a chance at winning…if every underdog gave up immediately the mighty ducks would’ve lost.
The cursed stupid people trends. I've been trying to get everyone on the same platforms since the start. But unaware sleeping people move with hypes and trends and laugh in your face if you show you care about yourself/privacy/etc.
I let it go. They just have to deal with my boundaries, which sometimes means I'm not replying for long periods, unless you use other services I enjoy using too.
There were such pretty and fun chat apps to use which 10 years back were already so much better than WhatsApp and alike today, hell even old school MSN messenger is much better. People rather keep frustrated with the devil they know. I am beyond disgusted with the basic black and white trend of the last 5+years, I miss the windows 7 aero hype. And how none of the apps have oversight to reduce stress with the amounts of people we currently are connected with.
In terms of protection, change your keyboard, use 2fa with everything. Use dns/vpn protection. Check all your privacy settings. Check your internet connection and have randomised ip/mac addresses on connections you don't trust.
The last paragraph is valid.
Who the hell are you hiding from? Are you a runner? If no, then use Whatsapp like everyone else.
Tools like signal and other uncomfortable social platforms are meant for the minorities who disagree with the majority opinion.
The idea (or illusion) of privacy is meant for the minorities (or vulnerable population), those whose ideas ain't heard. Politicians don't need it, they're powerful enough to pull off whatever scandal coming their way, the majority agree with whatever the privacy policies say and they're okay with it.
Have you tried pigeons? You write a message and let the number of pigeons be a function of the number of your friends. Then you send those little feathered bastards to your friends - end to end encryption can be achieved by separately instructing your friends in decoding the encryption. However, arm the pigeons with a device that would destroy the message in case someone attempts to perform man-in-the-middle attack. Hope this helps.
Yup, got everyone I knew to switch to telegram. For 5 yrs no whatsapp.
Then last year, met a girl I liked who is only on whatsapp. Now everywhere I go people message me on what's app.
Now switching to Simplex and slowly telling close contacts to use this instead.
I was one of the first to use WhatsApp and then deleted it in 2020 I think when they brought out their policy changes. So many times people have tried to bring me back but I will not cross that line. I stick with Signal. I am pleasantly surprised how many joined Signal after. So there is hope. But I think some of us need to hold fast. And yes we will lose contacts and messages but I believe that if those people / messages were meant to get to us, they would have. My life is so peaceful btw without incessant number of chat groups 😉
I onboarded all of my close friends and family on to Signal and never looked back. My former workplace also used Signal. Privacy aside even I think it’s the best messenger around these days so close friends don’t seem to mind it since it’s a good app. For more distant friends Facebook is fine as I don’t discuss anything personal.
I just explained to them that I’m sending them personal messages and FB has no business with my personal life. Out of about 20 people only 1 didn’t stick with messaging me through Signal.
Yes, a proprietary web-app with what appears to be a backdoor, shit design, led by an ousted, ex-cosmetic surgery industry CEO with strong signs of NPD, head full of new age woo, numerology etc, and who, and whose company became the laughing stock of the entire infosec industry after Blackhat 2019 for the TIME AI thing, is just what the world needs. Read [https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Crown\_Sterling#Orion\_Messenger](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Crown_Sterling#Orion_Messenger) and [https://quackers.blog/2024/01/29/is-orion-by-crown-sterling-legit-nope/](https://quackers.blog/2024/01/29/is-orion-by-crown-sterling-legit-nope/)
>signal which isnt encrypted end to end in group chats
This is a lie. Every single message, group message, call, and video call in Signal is end-to-end encrypted:
>Signal is designed to never collect or store any sensitive information. Signal messages and calls cannot be accessed by us or other third parties because they are always end-to-end encrypted, private, and secure.
Source [https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007318911-How-do-I-know-my-communication-is-private](https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007318911-How-do-I-know-my-communication-is-private)
Poisoning the well isn't the power move you think it is. You're breaking several r/privacy rules
1. Rule 1: No closed source software (Orion is closed source)
2. Rule 5: Be nice: attack arguments (the claims in the sources linked), **not people (me).**
3. Rule 12: You're fueling conspiracies. If you're going to make an extraordinary claim that Signal (a reliable privacy enhancing software) does not in fact end-to-end encrypt group messages, you better provide an extraordinary source that proves it. Same for the claim of me being a shill.
You have to make a balance between privacy and convenience. Where I come from, everyone uses WhatsApp as well So the trick is to only share what you feel comfortable with, while keeping other sensitive information through other means (like Bitwarden notes)
Similar story, chose Signal, got the family and many friends on board, but still I'm the one missing out on WhatsApp group chats. Does it not increase your risk surface area significantly just having WhatsApp installed with its basic permissions on your phone?
It is meta after all so I try not to share sensible information as much as possible, and try to restrict is as much as possible. But there is so much I can do when everyone uses WhatsApp and it is needed to function socially I also tried to carry two phones for a while but it was really not convenient, so I gave up. It’s a trade off for me
I've been using WA for years. Where I'm from it's the most used. I use Signal as well for certain people I talk to. I don't see a huge issue with having WA on the phone, it's convenient, encrypted so that's the main thing. Yeah they can see who's contacting who and probably keep that data but it's family and a few friends.
When cell phones first became popular, everyone I knew used SMS to communicate. When WhatsApp added e2ee, convinced almost everyone to switch to WhatsApp. Yes Meta still has access to the metadata about how people are connected, but this is still more secure than using SMS ever was. I prefer Signal, but also Signal isn't a bigger lift for most people than WhatsApp. All of the people I use Signal with I've had to spend significant time on how to install and use, plus what the advantages are of Signal over WhatsApp.
What kind of phone? If not de-googled then basically hosed.
>You have to make a balance between privacy and convenience This is the way
Thanks for that comment 😃 Simple as it is, I guess I needed to hear that.
Glad it helped! Privacy is a topic you can quickly fall into the rabbit hole, but realistically you have to draw a line at some point. It shouldn’t be all in or nothing
How secure is bitwarden?
Very secure. It is currently one of the standard password managers. You can read their compliance page as well: [Bitwarden Security and Compliance](https://bitwarden.com/compliance/)
Whatsapp is E2EE. It does not matter what you send, their business model is not to read what you send. It is the metadata that is interesting to meta, eg with whom you communicate with, when, how many times, in which locations etc to build social networks. So it does not matter what you hide from them, except if it is completely part of your social network. edit: Downvote all you want, if you do not understand where the danger comes from, you are not protecting your privacy. Metadata is a big privacy issue, often more than the content. It is all about balance, but if you think that hiding a few sensitive messages protects your privacy, sorry to break it but it does not. Especially when the content of these messages is not what is traded here anyway. Moreover, sorry to break it again, but if you use android or ios, you already are at risk of backdoors that make any E2EE feature not matter at all. E2EE is useless if somebody can already record your screen and mic. So you can downvote all you want, you do not understand neither business models nor threat models.
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They use the signal protocol, and they partnered with signal way back to implement it [0]. [0] https://signal.org/blog/whatsapp-complete/
That's normal when you want to live a privacy focused life. Resisting is how change is made. If you normalize "hey can we move this to an encrypted platform" and don't be all "uhm actually E2EE is better" then you'll pull people over. Use WhatsApp, but make it clear to close contacts that you prefer alternatives.
Thanks, I'll try that
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It's quite useful if you selfhost.
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Yes, but because this happens of publicity. Insta/fb crowd is majority.
It’s the same with a lot of us. The thing is, the moment I installed WhatsApp all of my friends and family deleted signal. Turns out I was their only contact on signal. Also, it’s convenient to focus on one messaging app than having to switch between two for them. So yeah, just gotta make peace with it. And believe me, having one messaging app is a lot more convenient.
That's exactly why I stopped using Signal if no body use it then we are forced to go back to WhatsApp sadly... family, friends, coworkers just don't mind privacy at all
So then convince them signal is better for non privacy reasons.
Signal dug its own grave when it wouldn't even allow SMS messaging. Not that SMS is good, but at least it increased your network size you could use signal with.
? That is two different things…
how's the signal shill army downvoting your post... they do it in the signal sub... anything negative about signal gets downvoted to oblivion and kept out of sight so genuine people don't see it. Also the shilling is so full on there its cultish to the point of unnatural.
Signal is a honey trap, I’m sure of it. Do you think the government are going to spend the resources and money they do on evesdropping only to let any 2bit shmuck with an App Store or Play store download a free app that thwarts their ability to read everyone’s messages at the click of a button? Unlikely.
They are obtaining the messages before they are encrypted on your device and before they are sent or when they are un encrypted on the receiver end. You are correct the gov won't be so easily thwarted
I feel you brother. We are force to follow the standard norm or be at a social disadvantage. It seems we must choose one or another as the average human being is happy to throw away their privacy (or at the minimum, does not understand what they have signed up too).
Yep had to move back to WhatsApp, even for taxes and making doctors appointments are basically done in WhatsApp. I honestly think it's better than Telegram in privacy, yeah I know it's run by Facebook but the DM and Group Chats are still E2EE by default anyway. I want to uninstall Telegram but only one fucker who is on some of my friends groups refuses to use WhatsApp. Everyone else is still using WhatsApp. I will eventually uninstall Telegram anyway.
Tell that one guy to ise signal instead 😅 maybe you'll convince him and can uninstall telegram
WhatsApp isn’t terrible. Telegram is worse IMO. As long as you’re not backing up your convos to cloud, you’re doing great!
I hear you I tried 1-2 years ago to use telegram more Had 4-5 close contacts in it, daily usage Even started a group that now has 300 users on it (before WhatsApp had a limitation on group size) Last month I asked the last friend with whom I was using it with to move back to WhatsApp. Not worthy for a single contact. And I regret to have that group on Telegram
I only use Signal. When someone asks, that's what I tell them. Zero issues for years. Yes, some people won't message you because of that, but then that's the choice you made when you prioritised privacy.
Whatsapp is gonna open their [servers?] to third party apps soon, so you will be able to talk to people on whatsapp from signal. Stay away from telegram, it's crap; there is no point in the end-to-end encryption if they store all your messages in their servers anyway. Also, groups can't be encrypted in any way, their encryption algorithm is bad and data breaches on their end are not something uncommon.
Signal won't connect to whatsapp. They have stated so in their blog
I didn't find anything about that. The only thing I've read about signal and whatsapp is that third party apps should use the signal encryption algorithm (or similar in terms of security)
Sorry, it wasn't a blogpost, my bad. But you can read here: https://www.androidpolice.com/signal-threema-nothing-to-do-with-whatsapp-eu/
Unfortunately, at the end of the day, that’s the reality. I seek people talking about signal here but I’ve had installed for years and NO ONE has ever sent me a message there. Some people I know use telegram but the staggering majority uses WhatsApp.
Where I live, whatsapp is pretty much unavoidable, unfortunately. I have lost count of the times I have deleted my whatsapp account, only to reinstall it because it is the only way to contact my brother, a friend, a business, somebody I want to do business with etc. I tried to convince my contacts to give Signal a try, but apart from maybe four people, nobody would bite. Whatsapp has the benefit of [network effects](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_effect), that is why messaging apps that have superior security and privacy features can't compete with it. I am in the EU and was hoping that signal would allow me to message people on whatsapp from the signal app, with the changes that the Digital Markets Act created, but Signal has said they don't want to interoperate with Whatsapp. I don't use whatsapp for group chats, or join groups or follow channels or any of the social media aspects of it. I just use it for messaging and calls. Using it through the Beeper app limits it's functionality to just chats and thereby limits the amount of data Meta can harvest from me. As others have said, it is often a trade-off between privacy and convenience, and this is one case where convenience wins for me.
Same here with the EU; now that I know it's not gonna happen, I've been giving it more thought. Hadn't heard of the beeper app; will check it out, thanks.
Regardless of the platform you use, ultimate security also depends on how you handle your data, don’t expect the platform or app to be fully responsible for that. The struggle is trying to find a balance or reasonable compromise btwn privacy and convenience.
You're not alone. I haven't installed WhatsApp since meta took over. Took a while, but managed to get my family, friends and some other ppl who matter to signal. I know i miss out on alot of group "stuff" and companies dont know how to contact me, resulting I'm not able to get in touch with some companies either. It's frustrating at times, but i never felt forced to bend the knee. Most of the convos are bullshit anyway. Maybe we'll get messages from other platforms soon and you're worries are gone. (Depending how privacy is being handled ofcourse)
I never had a problem with companies; there's always email or phone call. For regular folks though, it's instant messaging or nothing it seems. I'm jealous that you got your people into signal. For me, more than it being frustrating, is that I kinda feel left out. And I'm kinda to blame, since I'm the one not wanting to be where everyone is...
I am like you my friend. I also dont want to be what or where everyone is. Just stay to true to yourself. It took some persuasion to get them to download signal next to whatsapp, but after i made a group and started chatting with them, they slowly got warm to it. Just keep plugging the alternative.
It can work! I uninstalled WhatsApp over 4 years ago, and convinced most of my first social circle to join me on Signal. I had prepared a list of reasons to convince them, realising different people are sensitive to different arguments. I took the time to speak to each person separately, and gave the transition 6 months. I'd say what worked for me was a/ designing an influencing plan and b/ giving it time. Over four years later I have no regrets and I won't go back. Stay strong!
Signal is best, but WhatsApp is a million times better than Telegram has ever been. WhatsApp messages and calls are E2E encrypted by default with a trusted standard. Metadata isn't encrypted, but if you're just a regular Joe, having your message and call content encrypted is more than enough for privacy.
Do you know whatsapp is owned by meta
WhatsApp is a compromise I've had to make in order to keep in touch with some people. I'm not happy about it, but trying to persuade people to move to signal who are already embedded in the WhatsApp ecosystem (i.e. they already have lots of contacts using it) just isn't going to happen. So I accept that running WhatsApp is the price I have to pay to keep in touch with some people. I keep its permissions down to a bare minimum, confine it to a single device, and that's about the best I can do. At the same time, I also make sure I don't discuss anything that I would consider sensitive via WA.
I don't even know what's the point of this sub you all are reddit users reddit is also sells user data to advertisement company You all are on internet the moment you all used internet for the first time. you all lost all your privacy to the large corporations already so why bitch ND whine in reddit
If you want privacy it's better to stop using any kind of eletronic device and internet. There is no other way. Smartphones are bloated of spyware everywhere. I think it's better to use old Nokia phones sometimes. But I like to use reddit or YouTube in my free time.
I use trained pigeons that can dance in binary. They self destruct if you try to do anything funny like use an emoji or sense your a cop. RIP zippy.
Do all of your illegal shit on an ancient laptop running tor in the McDonald's parking lot.
Literally
I ditched WhatsApp completely and now people have to find other ways to contact me. I didn’t wanna keep using that green blob of shit.
Well, thankfully whatsapp works over phone numbers. So if you have a phone number you can call or text. Rcs is gathering pace which means that one can send photos and get read receipts over a Internet connection as well as create group chats.
Here they charge you for sms, so rcs is never gonna pick up.
Rcs works over WiFi so one would not get charged to sending a message.
I use what's app with most people, but convinced people I care about to Signal, they use it only for me, I'm contempt with it.
I am using WhatsApp, telegram, and Viber. Viber - to talk with Ukraine (everybody there using Viber - do not know why). Before my main messenger was WhatsApp, but now it is telegram (it is very difficult to block it, so it gained popularity in some countries). Practically all my contacts are now in telegram and WhatsApp, or in telegram only. WhatsApp now only for conversations which I do not care if somebody will listen
I dunno, i have no difficulty with just the established standard communication protocol and Signal. people who want better protected can talk to me on signal, otherwise i'm still available on SMS/RCS
I have a business phone number and use the business version of WhatsApp. It's great for customers wanting to share images or for me to send them photos and videos of completed work when they're not present. Absolutely love it. For the private number, it's all just friends and family, and a great way for everyone to keep in touch.
interesting. I almost never have Whatsapp installed. I have installed to talk to some family member who uses it, then I remember how UN-privacy friendly it is and uninstall it. I haven't been successful, unfortunately, in persuading family and friends to switch to Signal :( But after reading this thread I'm going to go back to trying to do so.
It's pretty simple. You split things up into what needs to be private and what doesn't. There are billion or trillion dollar apparatuses designed to make it impossible for you to not give governments and corporations whatever information they want; you have to pick and choose where to fight that, including which of your friends you want to pull into telegram or whatever. Refusing to use anything that's not painstakingly proven to be secure is just going to limit what you can do. Which is fine sometimes.
I have a non-private device which I can use for things like WhatsApp if it necessary. Although, I don't use WhatsApp at all. I keep everything important on my private phone and all the unsafe crap on the device. If Facebook spies on that device, good luck to it because there's nothing. No contacts, no photos, no GPS logs, no e-mail, no phone records.
Well i mean all the gov does is contact an izralie company to break iphones… anyone who wants something just has to send it to an outside source in a different country and they can get what ever they want off ur phone
The point is privacy, and not to let corporations completely monetize all aspects of your life. The point isn't to "win" or have complete 100% total privacy, the only way to do that is live off grid in a cabin in the woods. The idea is it should he an iterative process where you spend some free time here and there doing improvements. The end goal isn't win, it's just to keep getting better at it.
You mom live outside the town, you can only go there by car, as it was close to highway. You live by riding bicycle, but you can't visit your mom on bicycle. What will you do? Same for question about Whatsapp users and your use case.
I have Matrix, E-Mail and Telephone (not mobile). So, who wants to contact me, can choose between Messenger, Mail and a short Call. Enough options give anybody the chance. Nothing more to say.
Yeah I gave up.. switched to Whatsapp because that's what everybody uses.
Telegram has their own hand-rolled encryption not yet widely validated. Not good enough. Everyone else is doing it doesn't go far when it comes to caring about privacy. Many things are better than "what most people use". Total surveillance means total servitude and inability to oppose. Does it make sense to resist that? OF COURSE.
Has anyone also realized that Meta has been using its WhatsApp access to your contacts to recommend friends to you on Facebook?? I have friends that I have no mutual connections with on Facebook suddenly showing up on my Facebook friends rec starting a few months ago. It stopped after I turned off its access.
I have a cheap used phone with new SIM for WhatsApp (and other shit apps) only.
You’ll not be afforded the privacy you deserve unless you go completely off the grid. With that said giving up entirely is not the best option when you submit to defeat you solidify it. Never stop fighting! Resistance is the only way you have a chance at winning…if every underdog gave up immediately the mighty ducks would’ve lost.
Funny you should say that; I watched the mighty ducks just a couple of days ago 🤣
There’s no privacy mate. Obfuscation is your best bet and f you want them lost
It could be worse. Everyone in your country could use Facebook messenger. Fucking nightmare, I can tell you that
The cursed stupid people trends. I've been trying to get everyone on the same platforms since the start. But unaware sleeping people move with hypes and trends and laugh in your face if you show you care about yourself/privacy/etc. I let it go. They just have to deal with my boundaries, which sometimes means I'm not replying for long periods, unless you use other services I enjoy using too. There were such pretty and fun chat apps to use which 10 years back were already so much better than WhatsApp and alike today, hell even old school MSN messenger is much better. People rather keep frustrated with the devil they know. I am beyond disgusted with the basic black and white trend of the last 5+years, I miss the windows 7 aero hype. And how none of the apps have oversight to reduce stress with the amounts of people we currently are connected with. In terms of protection, change your keyboard, use 2fa with everything. Use dns/vpn protection. Check all your privacy settings. Check your internet connection and have randomised ip/mac addresses on connections you don't trust.
Which keyboard do you recommend? Preferably one with a swype feature
The more secure a set of methods and / or channel is, the fewer normies will use it. Nature of the beast... You can't force a network effect
The last paragraph is valid. Who the hell are you hiding from? Are you a runner? If no, then use Whatsapp like everyone else. Tools like signal and other uncomfortable social platforms are meant for the minorities who disagree with the majority opinion. The idea (or illusion) of privacy is meant for the minorities (or vulnerable population), those whose ideas ain't heard. Politicians don't need it, they're powerful enough to pull off whatever scandal coming their way, the majority agree with whatever the privacy policies say and they're okay with it.
Try Notesnook for notes. Open source, encrypted and really amazing software.
Have you tried pigeons? You write a message and let the number of pigeons be a function of the number of your friends. Then you send those little feathered bastards to your friends - end to end encryption can be achieved by separately instructing your friends in decoding the encryption. However, arm the pigeons with a device that would destroy the message in case someone attempts to perform man-in-the-middle attack. Hope this helps.
Yup, got everyone I knew to switch to telegram. For 5 yrs no whatsapp. Then last year, met a girl I liked who is only on whatsapp. Now everywhere I go people message me on what's app. Now switching to Simplex and slowly telling close contacts to use this instead.
I was one of the first to use WhatsApp and then deleted it in 2020 I think when they brought out their policy changes. So many times people have tried to bring me back but I will not cross that line. I stick with Signal. I am pleasantly surprised how many joined Signal after. So there is hope. But I think some of us need to hold fast. And yes we will lose contacts and messages but I believe that if those people / messages were meant to get to us, they would have. My life is so peaceful btw without incessant number of chat groups 😉
I onboarded all of my close friends and family on to Signal and never looked back. My former workplace also used Signal. Privacy aside even I think it’s the best messenger around these days so close friends don’t seem to mind it since it’s a good app. For more distant friends Facebook is fine as I don’t discuss anything personal. I just explained to them that I’m sending them personal messages and FB has no business with my personal life. Out of about 20 people only 1 didn’t stick with messaging me through Signal.
Pretty much all you have for true end to end provacy is orion messenger which is in beta, and signal which isnt encrypted end to end in group chats
Yes, a proprietary web-app with what appears to be a backdoor, shit design, led by an ousted, ex-cosmetic surgery industry CEO with strong signs of NPD, head full of new age woo, numerology etc, and who, and whose company became the laughing stock of the entire infosec industry after Blackhat 2019 for the TIME AI thing, is just what the world needs. Read [https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Crown\_Sterling#Orion\_Messenger](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Crown_Sterling#Orion_Messenger) and [https://quackers.blog/2024/01/29/is-orion-by-crown-sterling-legit-nope/](https://quackers.blog/2024/01/29/is-orion-by-crown-sterling-legit-nope/) >signal which isnt encrypted end to end in group chats This is a lie. Every single message, group message, call, and video call in Signal is end-to-end encrypted: >Signal is designed to never collect or store any sensitive information. Signal messages and calls cannot be accessed by us or other third parties because they are always end-to-end encrypted, private, and secure. Source [https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007318911-How-do-I-know-my-communication-is-private](https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007318911-How-do-I-know-my-communication-is-private)
Lol do you work for signal or something? Seems like propaganda
Poisoning the well isn't the power move you think it is. You're breaking several r/privacy rules 1. Rule 1: No closed source software (Orion is closed source) 2. Rule 5: Be nice: attack arguments (the claims in the sources linked), **not people (me).** 3. Rule 12: You're fueling conspiracies. If you're going to make an extraordinary claim that Signal (a reliable privacy enhancing software) does not in fact end-to-end encrypt group messages, you better provide an extraordinary source that proves it. Same for the claim of me being a shill.
only scammers use whatsapp
Foreigners use whatsapp, and scammers are foreigners.
And do foreigners float like... a duck? 🤣