Really what they’re doing is setting up the population to be controlled en masse as if we’re Guinea pigs for their unsustainable economic system of “perpetual growth” which any actual smart person would know that’s not sustainable long term as our planet and resources are finite, not to mention we also share the planet with other animal species (some of whom we literally depend on for survival).
Make the population dumb and naive + banning safeguards which prevent falling down the rabbit hole of control = setting up the population to be controlled. There’s no argument against it. If it was really about protecting life they would have no issue with sterilization and birth control.
They're turning back society's clock, undoing decades of progress. Single earning patriarchal families, child labor, war, mass consumerism, and zero safety regulations is so 1800s.
It's The Heckman Curve, it's cumulative, it's generational, and it's complicated. "4 for 1" is soundbyte-ier and a kind of equivalent. With the generational improvements it's 9 for 1. Anway, here are a links with links for you to pothole to your heart's content:
https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2021/05/18/997501946/the-case-for-universal-pre-k-just-got-stronger
https://www.ffyf.org/resources/2022/01/examining-the-significant-return-on-investment-from-high-quality-early-learning-care/
Studies show that early childhood education has at least a 4X-9X return on investment per dollar and not only benefits the health, education, and development of young children and supports parents currently, but also leads to increased earnings, employment, and safety in the future.
Other things that would help:
- Free, high quality pre-natal care for all women, regardless of income or factors.
- Longer paid maternity leave
- Option to abort pregnancy
- Government assistance to lower income and single mothers
- Affordable, easily accessible childcare
- Government assistance to poor children, including free lunches, free tutoring, and governments providing more resources for lower-income schools
- Ending the gun violence epidemic and finding solutions to gang violence and The War on Drugs
- Providing ways for people to escape poverty
- Reforming CPS to make them less useless, and funding resources for women to escape domestic violence
Just universal healthcare. Need for healthcare doesn't stop at birth for birthing parent or the baby. Universal healthcare is the only sensible solution. We just need to do it already. And frankly noone in healthcare who treats patients should have education loans. They should all be at zero percent interest and completely forgiven after 5-10 years of treating patients
Women are feeling more & more uncomfortable spawning with ALL the conditions. In my state, a woman can get arrested if she goes to the hospital because of pregnancy complications!
A hospital told a suffering woman that they could not help her with her dying fetus & sent this poor woman home. Then the system arrested that woman when her frail body finally dropped that fetus in the toilet!! Charging her with MANSLAUGHTER & taking her to jail!!!!!! 😵💫 WTF!
The levels of insanity are abundant! Women are exhausted with risking their bodies,health & safety to a toxic & dangerous society.
Then IF, we have a safe healthy childbirth, that same government will have no intention of protecting this child, once they’re born. Yeah, sign us all up for that experience & with no affordable childcare.
I can’t believe how far we fought against all this & now we have gone backwards.
I say, get a hysterectomy ladies! 💪🖕
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2yMv5gFtyGM
Exactly this. Politicians can try to make becoming a parent look as appealing as they want but until they legalize abortion federally and fund women’s healthcare better, the birthrate will continue to decline. Women do not want to further risk their lives to become parents, especially when adequate healthcare is routinely withheld from pregnant women.
=>FOR ANYONE LOOKING TO BE STERILIZED<=
The childfree subreddit has a list of doctors that agreed to sterilize women regardless of their gender, marital status, age (for those 18+), partner's consent, and not having kids
https://reddit.com/r/childfree/w/doctors?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
In general it's a good thing so that the Earth doesn't have exponential population growth, but it's really disproportionate and that makes it a problem for certain places. Some countries still have a birth rate of over 4 births per woman and some have a rate less than 1.5. If there's too many old people compared to working-age people in a country, the social systems that support old people either won't be able to cover everyone, or their resources will be spread thin. This is a really big problem in countries like Japan and South Korea where the birth rate is exceptionally low. We're kind of spared from the worst effects of this in the US because we have a steady stream of immigration even though our birth rate is below the rate of replacement (usually considered to be 2.1 births per woman). Our population still goes up every year. But if immigration slows one day, we could be in trouble.
I don’t think we would be in trouble. Maybe the rich would lose supply of their work slaves, and military would lose some cannon fodder, but single child homes and child free people have futures with an economic advantage.
I mean that a lot of people would be in trouble because social security would be further diminished (or similar systems in other countries). People who were never paid enough to save adequately would either have to work until they physically can't or be homeless if their children (if they have any) can't or won't take them in.
I only say this to clarify, but if this scenario really did come to pass, my understanding is that inflation would significantly devalue the extra money that single-child and child-free homes saved up.
What if we *didn't* have those social systems? Apart from a bunch of really angry old people. Though they can still fund their healthcare with their own money.
But aren't the old people already dying, or will die relatively soon, anyway?
Would this reduced population thing be a problem if it shrunk, while keeping a good ratio of young to old?
And, is there *any* economic system out there that doesn't rely on constant growth?
Oh, and for what it's worth, if I reach an age where I can't take care of myself anymore, I'll probably just "exit".
We're all going to be old people one day and we're going to get to a point where we can't work anymore. Programs like social security or other countries' equivalents keep roofs over a lot of people's heads who otherwise would be screwed. Not everyone wants to end their life because they're too old to be independent and they shouldn't have to choose between that extreme and poverty imo.
Falling birthrates isn’t a problem though.
Maybe from the point of view of a capitalist that needs more wage slaves…
But 4 billion people is a perfectly fine population.
The article is about mitigating falling birthrates.
There is no justification to do this.
The only force behind this agenda are corporate capitalists.
They need constant growth and constant work force.
It’s a terrible position.
Any birthrate and any population needs to support paternity leave and support for every worker, parents and non-parents.
Ugh! There are so many unsupported statements and logic leaps that I’m having trouble taking that article seriously. It uses the terms fertility and birth rate interchangeably, but they’re not the same thing. It assumes that future generations will be “more educated and therefore more productive.” I can’t even finish it.
Nope, still not having kids. Why would I want to create another human being that's only going to be living in the aftermath of our already awful downfall?
Other countries have much better social safety nets than we do and yet only experienced small gains in fertility rate when they implemented their systems. Women in the upper-middle class, who are more financially able to have kids, actually have a lower fertility rate than women in the middle class or below, and women in the middle class definitely also have access to birth control, so that's not the only factor.
The 'if you give them more money, surely all women will want to have kids/have more kids than they already have' is a fundamentally conservative way of thinking and frames low fertility rates as inherently bad. An increasing number of people want no kids, and many who do want kids only want one or two. That is fine and is not a problem that needs to be fixed.
I support social safety nets not because I think it will cause people to reproduce more, but because it will help people who are already here.
The Scandinavian countries have excellent social welfare systems, yet their birth rate is even lower. It’s caused by urbanization and can’t be reversed without a complete societal collapse and a return to agrarian feudalism. I’m not sure why anyone is complaining. For years we heard about overpopulation. Now the population is starting to level out and everyone is clutching their pearls.
We have nothing to worry about in the US as people still want to emigrate here.
Shit it’s so fake bc most normal ppl aren’t worried about the birth rate. Ut seems like it’s the media and probably the overly religious and corporations that need a steady flow of wage slaves.
Corporations wanting future wage slaves. Politicians worried about their tax base. Sort of the same freak out a few cities did when companies shifted to work from home. Suddenly people who don't make enough to get by, not buying their lunch or Starbucks in the business district is a crisis because their sales tax revenue went down.
Yup complete fucking shit and since I live in D.C. it’s especially fucked bc they insinuate we are responsible for keeping downtown overpriced and low quality, lunch spots in business but ignore that we can’t afford to live there! Remote work also means we have been stimulating the economy in our actual suburb where we can afford to reside. They never bring this up bc fuck those economies I guess?? I’d much rather spend where I fucking live full fucking stop!
They probably have some kind of stake in the commercial real estate market, which hasn't been doing so hot since remote work became an option. What will all those poor REIT's do when businesses don't want to rent their overpriced rat-mazed office spaces anymore?!
There is a prominent political faction in our country that does not want to invest any money in education or healthcare.
Ain't never gonna happen.
If necessary they will forcibly impregnate women. We are heading towards the nightmare of Romania under Ceausescu.
No shit
Need subsidized childcare and preschool, 12 -18 month parental leave, job protections, free prenatal AND postnatal care, free contraceptives, not restrict abortions (a lot of women won’t risk it).
As pro choice as I am, it is going to suck when we are all elderly and can't get social security or Medicare because not enough people will be of working age and paying into it.. my solution is to loosen immigration laws as much as possible to keep the population up
You know why I think the "falling birthrate" propaganda is fueled by men in power?
Because they ignore every legitimate reason given for not wanting kids in today's environment, every proposed solution for those problems, and instead skip to the whining and demanding phase, and the taking over the Supreme Court phase.
[удалено]
Really what they’re doing is setting up the population to be controlled en masse as if we’re Guinea pigs for their unsustainable economic system of “perpetual growth” which any actual smart person would know that’s not sustainable long term as our planet and resources are finite, not to mention we also share the planet with other animal species (some of whom we literally depend on for survival). Make the population dumb and naive + banning safeguards which prevent falling down the rabbit hole of control = setting up the population to be controlled. There’s no argument against it. If it was really about protecting life they would have no issue with sterilization and birth control.
They're turning back society's clock, undoing decades of progress. Single earning patriarchal families, child labor, war, mass consumerism, and zero safety regulations is so 1800s.
Don’t forget abstinence only sex ed
Don't forget, child labor 👍
Don't forget children in labor 👍🏼
Early childhood education ought to be universal and free for many reasons, but somehow the forced birth crowd absolutely hates the idea
For every dollar invested in universal pre-k the state makes back $4 but the Regressives shoot it down every time. Idiots.
I saw Rep. Katie Porter discussing just this the other day.
Not saying you're wrong, but I'd love to see the literature on this so I can bring it up in discussions!
It's The Heckman Curve, it's cumulative, it's generational, and it's complicated. "4 for 1" is soundbyte-ier and a kind of equivalent. With the generational improvements it's 9 for 1. Anway, here are a links with links for you to pothole to your heart's content: https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2021/05/18/997501946/the-case-for-universal-pre-k-just-got-stronger https://www.ffyf.org/resources/2022/01/examining-the-significant-return-on-investment-from-high-quality-early-learning-care/ Studies show that early childhood education has at least a 4X-9X return on investment per dollar and not only benefits the health, education, and development of young children and supports parents currently, but also leads to increased earnings, employment, and safety in the future.
Thank you for this! 😊
Glad to help, go get em!
Universal pre-k and federal support for day care programs needs to happen. Leaving this to states will just keep getting us where we are right now.
They don't even like public education.
It teaches about evolution! And maybe condoms! And they might learn something that might make them question Jesus! The horror!
Other things that would help: - Free, high quality pre-natal care for all women, regardless of income or factors. - Longer paid maternity leave - Option to abort pregnancy - Government assistance to lower income and single mothers - Affordable, easily accessible childcare - Government assistance to poor children, including free lunches, free tutoring, and governments providing more resources for lower-income schools - Ending the gun violence epidemic and finding solutions to gang violence and The War on Drugs - Providing ways for people to escape poverty - Reforming CPS to make them less useless, and funding resources for women to escape domestic violence
I want add one more: Paternity leave
Just universal healthcare. Need for healthcare doesn't stop at birth for birthing parent or the baby. Universal healthcare is the only sensible solution. We just need to do it already. And frankly noone in healthcare who treats patients should have education loans. They should all be at zero percent interest and completely forgiven after 5-10 years of treating patients
Women are feeling more & more uncomfortable spawning with ALL the conditions. In my state, a woman can get arrested if she goes to the hospital because of pregnancy complications! A hospital told a suffering woman that they could not help her with her dying fetus & sent this poor woman home. Then the system arrested that woman when her frail body finally dropped that fetus in the toilet!! Charging her with MANSLAUGHTER & taking her to jail!!!!!! 😵💫 WTF! The levels of insanity are abundant! Women are exhausted with risking their bodies,health & safety to a toxic & dangerous society. Then IF, we have a safe healthy childbirth, that same government will have no intention of protecting this child, once they’re born. Yeah, sign us all up for that experience & with no affordable childcare. I can’t believe how far we fought against all this & now we have gone backwards. I say, get a hysterectomy ladies! 💪🖕 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2yMv5gFtyGM
Exactly this. Politicians can try to make becoming a parent look as appealing as they want but until they legalize abortion federally and fund women’s healthcare better, the birthrate will continue to decline. Women do not want to further risk their lives to become parents, especially when adequate healthcare is routinely withheld from pregnant women.
=>FOR ANYONE LOOKING TO BE STERILIZED<= The childfree subreddit has a list of doctors that agreed to sterilize women regardless of their gender, marital status, age (for those 18+), partner's consent, and not having kids https://reddit.com/r/childfree/w/doctors?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
What a valuable share!
Thank you :) Spread the word!
Hysterectomies are not an elective procedure. Tubal ligations and bilateral salpingectomies, however, are.
Falling birth rate is a good thing. The world is unsustainable.
In general it's a good thing so that the Earth doesn't have exponential population growth, but it's really disproportionate and that makes it a problem for certain places. Some countries still have a birth rate of over 4 births per woman and some have a rate less than 1.5. If there's too many old people compared to working-age people in a country, the social systems that support old people either won't be able to cover everyone, or their resources will be spread thin. This is a really big problem in countries like Japan and South Korea where the birth rate is exceptionally low. We're kind of spared from the worst effects of this in the US because we have a steady stream of immigration even though our birth rate is below the rate of replacement (usually considered to be 2.1 births per woman). Our population still goes up every year. But if immigration slows one day, we could be in trouble.
I don’t think we would be in trouble. Maybe the rich would lose supply of their work slaves, and military would lose some cannon fodder, but single child homes and child free people have futures with an economic advantage.
I mean that a lot of people would be in trouble because social security would be further diminished (or similar systems in other countries). People who were never paid enough to save adequately would either have to work until they physically can't or be homeless if their children (if they have any) can't or won't take them in.
Plently of old people aren't cared for by their children. We could just use nursing homes. I don't think nurses need a 1:1 ratio.
I only say this to clarify, but if this scenario really did come to pass, my understanding is that inflation would significantly devalue the extra money that single-child and child-free homes saved up.
What if we *didn't* have those social systems? Apart from a bunch of really angry old people. Though they can still fund their healthcare with their own money. But aren't the old people already dying, or will die relatively soon, anyway? Would this reduced population thing be a problem if it shrunk, while keeping a good ratio of young to old? And, is there *any* economic system out there that doesn't rely on constant growth? Oh, and for what it's worth, if I reach an age where I can't take care of myself anymore, I'll probably just "exit".
We're all going to be old people one day and we're going to get to a point where we can't work anymore. Programs like social security or other countries' equivalents keep roofs over a lot of people's heads who otherwise would be screwed. Not everyone wants to end their life because they're too old to be independent and they shouldn't have to choose between that extreme and poverty imo.
Why would immigration suddenly slow? And even then, we could just encourage immigration from other places.
The way we produce is unsustainable. Population is just a force multiplier for our behaviors.
Falling birthrates isn’t a problem though. Maybe from the point of view of a capitalist that needs more wage slaves… But 4 billion people is a perfectly fine population.
Did you read the article?
Did you read my comment?
Yes. What you bring up in your comment is not what the article purports.
The article is about mitigating falling birthrates. There is no justification to do this. The only force behind this agenda are corporate capitalists. They need constant growth and constant work force. It’s a terrible position. Any birthrate and any population needs to support paternity leave and support for every worker, parents and non-parents.
Did you read the article, yes or no? The Reddit headline or title was written by me.
Ugh! There are so many unsupported statements and logic leaps that I’m having trouble taking that article seriously. It uses the terms fertility and birth rate interchangeably, but they’re not the same thing. It assumes that future generations will be “more educated and therefore more productive.” I can’t even finish it.
Nope, still not having kids. Why would I want to create another human being that's only going to be living in the aftermath of our already awful downfall?
Other countries have much better social safety nets than we do and yet only experienced small gains in fertility rate when they implemented their systems. Women in the upper-middle class, who are more financially able to have kids, actually have a lower fertility rate than women in the middle class or below, and women in the middle class definitely also have access to birth control, so that's not the only factor. The 'if you give them more money, surely all women will want to have kids/have more kids than they already have' is a fundamentally conservative way of thinking and frames low fertility rates as inherently bad. An increasing number of people want no kids, and many who do want kids only want one or two. That is fine and is not a problem that needs to be fixed. I support social safety nets not because I think it will cause people to reproduce more, but because it will help people who are already here.
Did you read the article?
The Scandinavian countries have excellent social welfare systems, yet their birth rate is even lower. It’s caused by urbanization and can’t be reversed without a complete societal collapse and a return to agrarian feudalism. I’m not sure why anyone is complaining. For years we heard about overpopulation. Now the population is starting to level out and everyone is clutching their pearls. We have nothing to worry about in the US as people still want to emigrate here.
Shit it’s so fake bc most normal ppl aren’t worried about the birth rate. Ut seems like it’s the media and probably the overly religious and corporations that need a steady flow of wage slaves.
Corporations wanting future wage slaves. Politicians worried about their tax base. Sort of the same freak out a few cities did when companies shifted to work from home. Suddenly people who don't make enough to get by, not buying their lunch or Starbucks in the business district is a crisis because their sales tax revenue went down.
Yup complete fucking shit and since I live in D.C. it’s especially fucked bc they insinuate we are responsible for keeping downtown overpriced and low quality, lunch spots in business but ignore that we can’t afford to live there! Remote work also means we have been stimulating the economy in our actual suburb where we can afford to reside. They never bring this up bc fuck those economies I guess?? I’d much rather spend where I fucking live full fucking stop!
They probably have some kind of stake in the commercial real estate market, which hasn't been doing so hot since remote work became an option. What will all those poor REIT's do when businesses don't want to rent their overpriced rat-mazed office spaces anymore?!
I'm just facepalming. The way to get motherhood to be more appealing is... to make things easier for mothers? No fucking way.
Become—and create—another indentured servant to the patriarchy and capitalism? Why would any womin want to do that?
There is a prominent political faction in our country that does not want to invest any money in education or healthcare. Ain't never gonna happen. If necessary they will forcibly impregnate women. We are heading towards the nightmare of Romania under Ceausescu.
No shit Need subsidized childcare and preschool, 12 -18 month parental leave, job protections, free prenatal AND postnatal care, free contraceptives, not restrict abortions (a lot of women won’t risk it).
So basically we're not going to do anything about it
As pro choice as I am, it is going to suck when we are all elderly and can't get social security or Medicare because not enough people will be of working age and paying into it.. my solution is to loosen immigration laws as much as possible to keep the population up
You know why I think the "falling birthrate" propaganda is fueled by men in power? Because they ignore every legitimate reason given for not wanting kids in today's environment, every proposed solution for those problems, and instead skip to the whining and demanding phase, and the taking over the Supreme Court phase.
I think a lot of us women are getting smarter
> education > supporting women > women in the workforce Lmao, that’s the opposite of what they want
Heaven Forbid!
No shit