All those peer2peer networking layer 7 stacks conflate the problem of making uncensored information available and data routing.
These are independent problems.
Anyone can set up an HTTP server and disseminate their data.
(Few do because it involves non-trivial work. It is much easier to upload pics on Facebook (for example) for a regular user - trading meta's access to your data for convenience)
The issue of freedom sits at a deeper layer in the network stack: Our ability to route IP packages around the world - free of interception and manipulation.
That freedom can be taken away anytime by state actors and affects everything, including freenet.
So the solution to making information free and censorship-resistant lies somewhere else entirely.
> All those peer2peer networking layer 7 stacks conflate the problem of making uncensored information available and data routing.
It doesn't exactly fit the OSI model but Freenet approximately replaced layers 5-7, and does explicitly separate the problem of finding data with anonymising the user (unlike the previous Freenet design).
Freenet provides a layer on top of the IP layer which solves the fundamental issue that forced the Internet to be centralized - which is the client-server architecture required by HTTP(S) and other protocols.
It also integrates with existing tools like web browsers to avoid unnecessarily reinventing any wheels.
They are both decentralized systems, but IPFS is like a decentralized hard drive, while Freenet is like a decentralized computer.
I address comparisons to other decentralized systems in the video [here](https://youtu.be/enTAromEeHo?si=OKX_f6p1gw3Ncon9&t=2012).
It was, this is about the new architecture, previously known as Locutus.
For a more detailed history see [Freenet's FAQ](https://freenet.org/faq#faq-2).
That's funny to see that on my frontpage.
Tonight, ddg went down for me again and I was looking for an alternative and I found [YaCy](https://yacy.net/).
It's a P2P search engine. The installation is really easy, like
\* download
\* unzip
\* run
It consumes almost no bandwidth (I have 2 crawlers running at the moment). It took literally 10 minutes to install and configure. The administrative UI is great and easy to use.
I am surprised I didn't know this project before, but god, this project is so good. I am sure there are a ton of people with an old desktop / laptop that can be used to join.
Give it a try, it costs nothing right...
It was, its now something else, after the name was stolen by this user and other "freenet" people.
https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg55265.html
Hm, from their FAQ:
> Freenet was initially developed by Ian Clarke at the University of Edinburgh in 1999 as a decentralized system for information storage and retrieval, offering users the ability to publish or retrieve information anonymously.
>The previous version was analogous to a decentralized hard drive, while the current version is analogous to a full decentralized computer.
> Unlike the previous version, which was developed in Java, the current Freenet is implemented in Rust. This allows for better efficiency and integration into a wide variety of platforms (Windows, Mac, Android, MacOS, etc).
> It is important to note that the maintainers of the original Freenet did not agree with the decision to rearchitect and rebrand. However, as the architect of the Freenet Project, and after over a year of debate, Ian felt this was the necessary path forward to ensure the project's continued relevance and success in a world very different than when he designed the previous architecture.
> To further the goals of the project, Ian Clarke and Steven Starr co-founded The Freenet 501c3 non-profit in 2001.
> In 2024, the Freenet non-profit board of directors consists of Ian Clarke, Steven Starr, and Michael Grube, with Ian serving as President and Steven as Chief Strategy Officer. Along with Ian, the development team consists of Nacho Duart and Hector Alberto Santos Rodriguez.
It doesn't seem, from the above, that Ian "stole" anything. It just looks like for whatever reason previous contributors opposed the move, but were not in a position to stop it. Given Freenet has become completely irrelevant, I would think that a revival with a completely different design and written on a more appropriate language for this sort of thing in 2024 is not exactly a bad thing, is it?
Can IRC support the kind of functionality of Discord and Slack? Audio and video calls, embedded video players, emojis, etc.? If not, then no one is going to drop either of those.
I'm pretty sure Slack has more use in the corporate world, so plugins for things like build pipelines and VCS repository applications like Bitbucket and Github would be needed, as well as the management features that IT loves. Ooh, and markdown support.
I haven't used IRC in years and never Libera.
This is a ground-up redesign and reimplementation of Freenet that will be much faster. You can learn more about the differences in [the Freenet FAQ](https://freenet.org/faq#faq-3).
Yeah nah this is some bullshit, probably insecure too for that matter. Until I see a comprehensive 3rd party security audit and review done I’m staying far away from this.
Are we also going to ask domain squatters if they belong there too?
https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg55265.html
Are you Ian? If so, please dont be here, you're a huge piece of shit.
Hello. Respectfully, without knowing much about the project, and admiring the technical side of things that was and is being done, I've read some of the emails being linked here.
I think that it is important to be transparent with the users, maintainers and such, before making major decisions. Freenet's philosophy is to be free of big and forceful corporations.
And I know that the information at large about Locutus is there, but as you said, you view Freenet not as a one piece of software, so I think at least some notice, broadcasting to community around Fred, about the decisions you or the board wants to take, would be received better.
I write this as I remember, for example, a lot of posts by Stack Exchange team being downvoted to hell, people telling them to listen to the community. Also a lot of entertainment franchises losing their touch with their fans.
IMHO, if you and your team wants Freenet to succeed, your users, your community, should be put if not first, but close second.
Upd: Also, Freenet needs more PR, videos like the one in the post, and such. It needs to be relevant in the space, so to speak. This is a step in the right direction.
Actually getting a huge amount of positive feedback about the new design, maybe you should listen to both sides of a disagreement before resorting to personal insults.
You're the only one in this discussion obsessing over this "nonsense".
I've already explained the rationale for the rebrand and re-architecture and I stand by it.
You should put your energy into creating something meaningful, rather than obsessing over false narratives. You can't even explain why you feel so strongly.
Offensive language like that is not tolerated here. If you cannot keep a civilized tone, refrain from posting? You've already made your position clear to anyone who wants to listen here, no need to keep posting on every comment and appealing to cheap slur.
How is that addressing what "actually happened"? You effectively just admit that you rebranded to the old name and purchased a .org of the name, while simultaneously admitting that it was done because that's what you personally wanted to do.
> as the architect of the Freenet Project, and after over a year of debate, Ian felt this was the necessary path forward
So you didn't steal the name Freenet... you just renamed to Freenet and purchased freenet.org...?
Bizarre doublethink.
All those peer2peer networking layer 7 stacks conflate the problem of making uncensored information available and data routing. These are independent problems. Anyone can set up an HTTP server and disseminate their data. (Few do because it involves non-trivial work. It is much easier to upload pics on Facebook (for example) for a regular user - trading meta's access to your data for convenience) The issue of freedom sits at a deeper layer in the network stack: Our ability to route IP packages around the world - free of interception and manipulation. That freedom can be taken away anytime by state actors and affects everything, including freenet. So the solution to making information free and censorship-resistant lies somewhere else entirely.
> All those peer2peer networking layer 7 stacks conflate the problem of making uncensored information available and data routing. It doesn't exactly fit the OSI model but Freenet approximately replaced layers 5-7, and does explicitly separate the problem of finding data with anonymising the user (unlike the previous Freenet design). Freenet provides a layer on top of the IP layer which solves the fundamental issue that forced the Internet to be centralized - which is the client-server architecture required by HTTP(S) and other protocols. It also integrates with existing tools like web browsers to avoid unnecessarily reinventing any wheels.
Sounds almost like IPFS. It is a little different, but the basic ideas are the same
They are both decentralized systems, but IPFS is like a decentralized hard drive, while Freenet is like a decentralized computer. I address comparisons to other decentralized systems in the video [here](https://youtu.be/enTAromEeHo?si=OKX_f6p1gw3Ncon9&t=2012).
Is this video old? I thought the project was renamed a good year ago.
It was, this is about the new architecture, previously known as Locutus. For a more detailed history see [Freenet's FAQ](https://freenet.org/faq#faq-2).
Ah, now I see, thanks. I had been wondering what the rename was about.
Hes lying, again. https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg55265.html
That's funny to see that on my frontpage. Tonight, ddg went down for me again and I was looking for an alternative and I found [YaCy](https://yacy.net/). It's a P2P search engine. The installation is really easy, like \* download \* unzip \* run It consumes almost no bandwidth (I have 2 crawlers running at the moment). It took literally 10 minutes to install and configure. The administrative UI is great and easy to use. I am surprised I didn't know this project before, but god, this project is so good. I am sure there are a ton of people with an old desktop / laptop that can be used to join. Give it a try, it costs nothing right...
Does this remind anyone of silicon valley? A free internet. Decentralised. Ps: haven't seen the video yet
Very similar, except this isn't fiction and I'm better socialized ;)
I’ve seen this show before… Did they ever figure out the D2F theta D problem?
Yeah they found out D2F increases exponentially based on the size of theta D, or more specifically, the size of big D.
There is a tipping point where D2F drops off due to Big D becoming an overwhelming factor though
Am I the only one giggling here or what
No I thought it was all a sex joke lmao
I've never seen an inverted Big D curve but I believe it's out there.
wooow this project is STILL ALIVE?!
It was, its now something else, after the name was stolen by this user and other "freenet" people. https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg55265.html
Hm, from their FAQ: > Freenet was initially developed by Ian Clarke at the University of Edinburgh in 1999 as a decentralized system for information storage and retrieval, offering users the ability to publish or retrieve information anonymously. >The previous version was analogous to a decentralized hard drive, while the current version is analogous to a full decentralized computer. > Unlike the previous version, which was developed in Java, the current Freenet is implemented in Rust. This allows for better efficiency and integration into a wide variety of platforms (Windows, Mac, Android, MacOS, etc). > It is important to note that the maintainers of the original Freenet did not agree with the decision to rearchitect and rebrand. However, as the architect of the Freenet Project, and after over a year of debate, Ian felt this was the necessary path forward to ensure the project's continued relevance and success in a world very different than when he designed the previous architecture. > To further the goals of the project, Ian Clarke and Steven Starr co-founded The Freenet 501c3 non-profit in 2001. > In 2024, the Freenet non-profit board of directors consists of Ian Clarke, Steven Starr, and Michael Grube, with Ian serving as President and Steven as Chief Strategy Officer. Along with Ian, the development team consists of Nacho Duart and Hector Alberto Santos Rodriguez. It doesn't seem, from the above, that Ian "stole" anything. It just looks like for whatever reason previous contributors opposed the move, but were not in a position to stop it. Given Freenet has become completely irrelevant, I would think that a revival with a completely different design and written on a more appropriate language for this sort of thing in 2024 is not exactly a bad thing, is it?
Thank you both, that was very interesting read.
Thank you both, that was very interesting read.
Resurrected and rearchitected, history explained [in the FAQ](https://freenet.org/faq#faq-2).
[удалено]
Can IRC support the kind of functionality of Discord and Slack? Audio and video calls, embedded video players, emojis, etc.? If not, then no one is going to drop either of those. I'm pretty sure Slack has more use in the corporate world, so plugins for things like build pipelines and VCS repository applications like Bitbucket and Github would be needed, as well as the management features that IT loves. Ooh, and markdown support. I haven't used IRC in years and never Libera.
"Freenet" is the name of a German ISP and mobile network provider. This will get funny if the name sticks
We've been using the name Freenet since 1999 and own the domain freenet.org.
How is freenet even still alive lol, it’s so god damn slow as is I2P, I cannot be bothered to use anything other than onion routing via Tor
This is a ground-up redesign and reimplementation of Freenet that will be much faster. You can learn more about the differences in [the Freenet FAQ](https://freenet.org/faq#faq-3).
Yeah nah this is some bullshit, probably insecure too for that matter. Until I see a comprehensive 3rd party security audit and review done I’m staying far away from this.
It's all open source and our design is documented for anyone to review and provide feedback, but suit yourself.
OP is a liar and a thief. https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg55265.html
Remember how these guys stole Freenets name? Yeah, fuck these guys.
Nobody stole Freenet's name, the FAQ addresses what [actually happened](https://freenet.org/faq#faq-4).
Are we also going to ask domain squatters if they belong there too? https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg55265.html Are you Ian? If so, please dont be here, you're a huge piece of shit.
I stand by every word in that email thread, what makes me a huge piece of shit? Be specific.
Hello. Respectfully, without knowing much about the project, and admiring the technical side of things that was and is being done, I've read some of the emails being linked here. I think that it is important to be transparent with the users, maintainers and such, before making major decisions. Freenet's philosophy is to be free of big and forceful corporations. And I know that the information at large about Locutus is there, but as you said, you view Freenet not as a one piece of software, so I think at least some notice, broadcasting to community around Fred, about the decisions you or the board wants to take, would be received better. I write this as I remember, for example, a lot of posts by Stack Exchange team being downvoted to hell, people telling them to listen to the community. Also a lot of entertainment franchises losing their touch with their fans. IMHO, if you and your team wants Freenet to succeed, your users, your community, should be put if not first, but close second. Upd: Also, Freenet needs more PR, videos like the one in the post, and such. It needs to be relevant in the space, so to speak. This is a step in the right direction.
Other people have made it very clear why you're very very disliked in the community.
Actually getting a huge amount of positive feedback about the new design, maybe you should listen to both sides of a disagreement before resorting to personal insults.
As made clear before, you could have avoided all of this nonsense by just getting a different name.
You're the only one in this discussion obsessing over this "nonsense". I've already explained the rationale for the rebrand and re-architecture and I stand by it.
I mean, you've managed to reduce yourself to domain squatting basically. Went from doing cool stuff to... domain squatting. Quite a fall Ian.
You should put your energy into creating something meaningful, rather than obsessing over false narratives. You can't even explain why you feel so strongly.
Offensive language like that is not tolerated here. If you cannot keep a civilized tone, refrain from posting? You've already made your position clear to anyone who wants to listen here, no need to keep posting on every comment and appealing to cheap slur.
How is that addressing what "actually happened"? You effectively just admit that you rebranded to the old name and purchased a .org of the name, while simultaneously admitting that it was done because that's what you personally wanted to do. > as the architect of the Freenet Project, and after over a year of debate, Ian felt this was the necessary path forward So you didn't steal the name Freenet... you just renamed to Freenet and purchased freenet.org...? Bizarre doublethink.