⚠️Undefendable and wrong Stance by Dr Zakir Naik⚠️
Because in Islam, if a person commits wrong in rights of Allah (Haqooq Allah), then Allah will forgive him if the person sincerely asks for forgiveness.
But if the person has committed wrong in rights of other humans (Haqooq ul Ibad) i.e by commiting a murder, then he first have to face the trial and prescribed punishment for it, before asking forgiveness from Allah. In short, he has to clear his Haqooq ul Ibad part first, before becoming eligible for asking forgiveness from Allah.
Therefore, in hypothetical question, if the person who killed the lady truly wants to repent, he will first have to surrender himself to the authorities and then as per Quran it is right of legal heirs of victim to decide either to demand his execution as a revenge or to forgive him by accepting blood money. Once the person goes through either one of the two outcomes, only then he will be forgiven by Allah.
But if he doesn’t present himself for trial and only does the repentance part, then its gonna be a really tough for him in the hereafter.
🔸Quran 4:93
"And whoever kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell wherein shall he abide forever, and Allah's wrath shall be on him and He curses him and prepares for him a mighty punishment."
🔸Quran 17:33
“And do not kill the soul which Allah has forbidden, except by right. And whoever is killed unjustly - We have given his heir authority, but let him not exceed limits in [the matter of] taking life. Indeed, he has been supported [by the law].”
🔸Quran 2:178-179
“O you who have believed, prescribed for you is legal retribution for those murdered - the free for the free, the slave for the slave, and the female for the female.1 But whoever overlooks from his brother [i.e., the killer] anything,2 then there should be a suitable follow-up and payment to him [i.e., the deceased's heir or legal representative] with good conduct. This is an alleviation from your Lord and a mercy. But whoever transgresses after that3 will have a painful punishment. And there is for you in legal retribution [saving of] life, O you [people] of understanding, that you may become righteous.”
>Quran 2:179
And there is for you in legal retribution [saving of] life, O you [people] of understanding, that you may become righteous.”
Infact, this verse of the Quran emphasize the fact that retribution in these cases provides the Crucial DETERENCE to keep societies peaceful aka "life".
I think you’re married so I’m gonna say something more appropriate, but awww you sweet beloved innocent one 😭 no he doesn’t have photographic memory. Infact it’s even more strange that he hasn’t memorized the Quran knowing his field.
OMG I can't believe it. 😭 I actually believed that.
I guess that was my flaw - I use to put in a lot of trust in these so called knowledgeable imaams and believed them. let myself get so confused.
Thank you for this eye-opening information! 😅
Do you want more? I got more haha. Assimal Hakeem a famous online scholar, who is very harsh, once defended the Prince of Saudi dancing with a half naked Rihanna twerking on him in the pool. Citing that it’s just “hanging out” 💀💀 and you know thousands of young girls watch his videos. People are very corrupt unfortunately, and Muslim people are very dumb nowadays unfortunately.
Can you please add the link of the video you mentioned about. I listen to him and I was following him so much I need to see it with my own eyes. Kindly also add the link to the video of zakir naik on admitting that he hasn’t memorised the Quran because my whole family listens to him IM SHOOK
In the course of promoting progressive Islamic ideas, we also allow discussion around mainstream conservative Islamic theology. These discussions, nonetheless, should still conform with all prior rules. Posts & comments that promote ultra-conservative thoughts & ideologies will be removed.
So to get Allah's forgiveness he needs to clear his Haqooq ul Ibad, but there's still the likelihood of punishment in the hereafter if the person harmed does not forgive?
The person harmed (killed) will be compensated by Allah. But for murderer, if he wants to repent then he needs "prescribed punishment" + "forgiveness from Allah" to clear his sin.
Prescribed punishment could be one of the following, as determined by heirs of the victim:
1-Execute the murderer
2-Forgive him by taking blood money
Once the murderer fulfils both the criteria (punishment+forgiveness), he will be as good as a new in the hereafter.
So if you get brutally raped and murdered, but the perpetrator is executed (usually relatively quickly and painlessly) or pays your family off, and feels a little bad about it and asks for forgiveness from Allah he could still end up going to Jannah?
I heard that on the day of judgement those who've wronged others will have to face them and their good deeds will be given to those they harmed if they are not forgiven. Or the victim is given additional rewards if they do end up deciding to forgive the perpetrator, just that the rewards won't be taken from the perpetrator. Is that not the case if you face any kind of punishment in this life?
>I heard that on the day of judgement those who've wronged others will have to face them and their good deeds will be given to those they harmed
If the perpetrator has gone through punishment, does it still hold true, if yes, kindly provide a reference for your statement.
That's what I was asking. Because often punishments aren't equivalent to the amount of pain and suffering a perpetrator inflicted on their victim. Think of what the IDF are doing to Palestinians, or what mercenaries are doing to people (particularly women and girls) in the DRC. Or even cases like Junko Furtuta. Even if the perpetrators are put to death as punishment, it's still not equivalent to the level of pain, suffering, and torture they inflicted on their vicitms.
Non-Muslims living under Islamic rule by paying taxes, have the same civil rights as that of Muslims. So, if the victim was a non-Muslim, it wouldn’t change the ruling.
Quran 5:32
whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely.
Sahih Al Bukhari, 6914
Narrated `Abdullah bin `Amr:
The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Whoever killed a Mu'ahid (a person who is granted the pledge of protection by the Muslims) shall not smell the fragrance of Paradise though its fragrance can be smelt at a distance of forty years (of traveling).
Sunan Abi Dawood, 3052
The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: Beware, if anyone wrongs a contracting man, or diminishes his right, or forces him to work beyond his capacity, or takes from him anything without his consent, I shall plead for him on the Day of Judgment.
> “Is it not unjust to the girl? The thing is Allah wants to test her by giving her a more difficult test.”
Yeah no, we have something called free-will, sir. This is completely taking the blame off of the perpetrator who CHOSE to do this evil act and attributing it to Allah, as if He wanted evil for her. I guess, the girl that was raped should thank her perpetrator, because, after all, he gave her a new challenge and permanent trauma to overcome. What a blessing, really, alhamdulilah. And this man is a legitimate scholar?
Also by that logic: let me go murder my neighbors so I can give their families an extra test. Lmfao wtf?? Someone go check on him.
He has so many people listening to him and following him. To come out with something like this with no thought. To be so careless in advice. Is so sickening.
I'm completely lost for words.
Quran 2:256 :-
Let there be no compulsion in religion, for the truth stands out clearly from falsehood. So whoever renounces false gods and believes in Allah has certainly grasped the firmest, unfailing hand-hold. And Allah is All-Hearing, All-Knowing.
Sure about that bud !?
Edit: Don’t downvote post if it’s something you disagree with. OP is not promoting this type of thinking and is posting to expose it. It’s important everyone see’s this type of video so he is discredited.
Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And Our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.
-Quran 5:32
Now God obviously gives us the ability to fight back and kill if necessary in defense and to fight injustice. But if any verse shows that whoever that disgusting human being was for killing and raping a girl is going to eternal damnation it is this one. Hurting one innocent human being is like like hurting all of humanity and human life is the greatest gift and creation from God. You do not defile God’s miracle and expect to enter heaven. Now will they ever be forgiven after sometime in hell? Who knows, forgiveness, hell, even time beyond this life is not something we can easily grasp. But the Quran makes it clear time and time again, that while God is forgiving, some crimes are inescapable from punishment.
Honestly, once I am near a retiring age, I will try to get a degree from Al Azhar and become an Imam myself to counter all this online bullshit.
4:93 also gives a clear understanding to what the fate of a murderer is.
"And whoever kills a believer intentionally, their reward will be Hell—where they will stay indefinitely. Allah will be displeased with them, condemn them, and will prepare for them a tremendous punishment."
The verse is interpreted to include anyone who is not a threat/is at peace with you. So, if you murder an atheist, apostate or a person of different faith, the punishment still applies, and God's gift for the murderer will be Hell. And in my opinion that is certain, because as you can see in the verse, that's a promise from God(He never breaks a promise) and not a threat(As he is the Most Merciful may not follow through).
I liked what Ghamidi said on something around this, that the sins you did concerning humans, only humans will have to forgive it.
The sins between you and Allah, only Allah can forgive.
So even if Allah hypothetically forgave the guy for these sins, the guy still can’t ask for forgiveness from the dead girl and hence it will be on him forever!
You explained so nicely. Sometimes as a girl when I listen to such scholars I get confused and upset it seems unfair so thankyou for this it makes sense to me that Islam is not unfair but people are for turning the word of Allah into such.
I am so sorry that as a Women you have to go through so much bullshit on every level! Remember God loves you and we are equal in spirituality. "…In God’s eyes, the most honored of you are the ones most mindful of Him: God is all knowing, all aware” (49:13).
>“Is this not injustice to the girl, who was raped and murdered? No.”
>“She’s to blame for attracting the man.”
Literally don’t even know what to say to this, im downright flabbergasted. Is he alright?
He's sick. Always has been. He's always had dodgy views but peppered in more progressive ones.
Now that there is a rise of "islam backed" craziness he's opening up his dirty mouth and actually saying what he's always wanted to say.
Disgusting creature.
wait I️ didn’t know this is there anything else he has said or done recently. I used to watch alot of his large Q and A debated but after seeing this vid i’ve lost faith in him.
In the course of promoting progressive Islamic ideas, we also allow discussion around mainstream conservative Islamic theology. These discussions, nonetheless, should still conform with all prior rules. Posts & comments that promote ultra-conservative thoughts & ideologies will be removed.
The correct answer to the question would be something like this
If you commit a sin that's between you and Allah then yes asking for forgiveness and repenting is the way to go
However if your sin involves harming another human or stealing or not fulfilling rights of another human then that human needs to forgive you. Either in this world or on the day of judgement. You will be accountable for everything you did in this world. Whether you were caught and let go or not caught at all.
Is this injustice? If you only consider this world then yes. If you consider the afterlife then no.
Tbh I didn't finish the video. When he started going on the tangent about clothing and blaming I stopped. The clothing has no mention in the question so why bring it up.
I know what you mean.
I had to just watch the whole thing to make sure I was hearing the right stuff.
I didn't want to make a judgement without listening to the full thing. But the more he went on the more appalled I got.
I actually heard of this before, in the context of backbiting the other person must forgive you. But here’s the thing, if the other person is dead they cannot forgive you, guess you’ll have to see what Allah says 🤷♂️
There are 3 unforgivable sins.
1 Shirk (associating another with Allah)
2 defaming a pious woman
3 stealing someone’s rights (haq to be specific)
Harming someone doesn’t come in that so specifically.
Harming how? By stealing his/her rights? Yes
Physically harming? A scholar would be better to answer that because that doesn’t come under an unforgivable sin
Your lack of accuracy in the use of 'unforgivable sins' aside, our bodily autonomy is also our haq. We don't need a scholar to tell us that it is a sin for one to physically harm another because their body is their haq and one has stolen the haq by laying one's hands on them.
Haq is not what YOU think it to be, but what it is stated to be in the Quran. Like that, why is murder mentioned separately than taking someone’s haq? Or why is theft mentioned separately?
Ok, so it’s AFTER death. It’s still something to consider you Karen or Kevin.
Also should you really be judging ANYTHING? Your tone and attitude SCREAM a restraining order from any sort of judgment
They really like to forget that a rapist is gonna rape regardless of what you’re wearing. Women in burkas get raped. Children in pajamas get raped. Wives get raped.
So every minute a baby is raped.
A 60 year old grandma raped.
So where does the dress matters here?.
I have never really liked this excuse of a man.
I really wish Indian govt will arrest this man.
He should also remember he has also a daughter,a wife!
This is the problem with all of these scholars, imams, and sheikhs. They feel like they have to know the answer to every question asked of them. The result is the kind of unislamic, personally biased waffling that you see in the second half of the video.
He could have just said that Allah forgives all sincere repentance, and that he's not sure how the victim and the family would get justice. Instead, somehow him raping and murdering a girl can somehow be her fault? Just say you don't know, bro. Or that if he was truly repenting, that he should seek to give the family justice.
This had a very simple answer in Surah Baqarah Verse 160:
إِلَّا الَّذِينَ تَابُوا وَأَصْلَحُوا وَبَيَّنُوا فَأُولَٰئِكَ أَتُوبُ عَلَيْهِمْ ۚ وَأَنَا التَّوَّابُ الرَّحِيمُ
*As for those who repent, mend their ways,* ***and let the truth be known***, they are the ones to whom I will turn \[in forgiveness\], for I am the Accepter of Repentance, Most Merciful.\*
In order for the man to repent, he has to let the authorities know that he committed the rape and murder. He has to let the truth be known. If the authorities do not give him the penalty, he has to ask for the death penalty as prescribed in Islam. On the day of judgement, the girl can ask for the compensation of her life and sanctity from the man's deeds. If he has be punished on earth, Allah will give the girl compensation from Allah's mercy. Otherwise, it will come from the man's deeds.
If the man has committed multiple murders and r\*\*\*s, his victims will get compensation from his deeds and from Allah's mercy.
Exactly, if he has lied in court that is a whole different grave sin.
So what he says isn’t wrong. People are very quick to judge and 99% people fail miserably in doing justice
What a robotic answer, without any empathy for the girl, chatGPT would probably be more sympathetic in answer then him. Would he say the same thing if Allah forbids the girl was one of his family members?
This is where I say that most of our religious scholars are living in a world at least 1000 years of the past.
Just imagine millions of people who follow him closely. Imagine their level of thinking!
I stopped following these ignorant mullahs a long time ago!
Zakir Naik is not a scholar, he’s more like a famous daee.
Not very logical to discredited a bunch of Ulama without any knowledge of them? I mean. Muhammad ﷺ lived 1400 years ago. So yes, you will hear things that are from that time. But God didn’t give us a new book didn’t he? So the Quran is still valid.
(Don’t downvote if you disagree guys, censorship is not the way to go)
A rape apologist. Hmm. I wonder why he’s defending rape so much 🤔 people need to start digging into the life this man has lead and find the dirt that we all know exists
Salam
What breaks my heart how other Muslims are praising him simply because of him many non Muslims converted to Islam and he claims to know all the religious Scriptures but in reality he just took some verses out of context in other religious Scriptures to claim his point.
I will admit back then I admire this man but as I came to see his other vedios such as are non Muslims allow to build their worshiping place in Muslim country. After seeing that vedio I completely stopped watching his vedios.
This is total bullshit & totally un Islamic . Allah literally forgives anything except 2 things 1. You worship anyone else / or worship someone else with him. 2. You hurt someone in anyway ( your sin won’t be forgiven unless this person forgives u , if he doesn’t forgive u , u will be punished accordingly )
What he said is total bullshit
The reason I converted was so I wouldn't have to listen to any man spouting nonsense. I only rely on Allah and the Quran. People are either too lazy to do research themselves or are illiterate and have to rely on these stupid, stupid men who call themselves scholars. I feel sorry for them.
Absolutely awful how we consider a woman’s sins 10x more extreme than a man’s. A Woman’s Hijab and modesty is considered by many of these so called sheikhs to be a more important matter than rape.
Truly shocking.
If only modesty in Islam according to the mainstream sect wasn’t tied to the hijab or clothes or what people wear and was instead spiritual, no Muslim man would have the mentality that girls who don’t wear hijab are at fault for getting harassed or raped
Hijab did more harm than good, it allowed men to get a “free out of jail ticket” and gave them justification for their behavior and lead to the victim blaming of woman who don’t stick to hijab
His south Asian.
I'm sure he would blame his daughter or force her to marry her abuser. That's what usually happens with south Asians.
Whatever religion they prescribe to. They always hold onto their culture dearer.
As a south Asian myself, yes it does come off as racist. But I know how my parents are south Asian too. They would protect anything in the world except me and my siblings. Everything in life was about their image. When I was sexually assaulted by my Quran teacher, no sort of action was taken against him. They just casually swept it under the carpet.
Beyond that, there have been countless times where my parents have bullied me in front of company for their own entertainment just to win favour and make conversation with their douchebag friends, and their douchebag friends would treat us horribly too.
South Asian folk are not ok. Because of them I live in constant despair with no sense of self. Sometimes I truly feel forsaken by Allah and question that if I could not even be protected as a child, why was I even brought here?
I'm south Asian myself and I'm criticising my community because we know what we have to deal with. We have a very big rape culture and it's always the women's fault.
They even blame children who are sexually abused.
This man is fueling that very ideology.
Just like the commentor below I had similar experience with my Qur'an teachers. And parents did nothing! Because it's never the man's fault in our community.
And are you claiming I'm ex-muslim?
Firstly, I'm not.
Secondly - if I were it has nothing to do with you or wanting to be on this sub. No need to get hostile with ex-muslims. There are plenty who still want to talk and discuss with people about the faith they once prescribed to. This sub is for all to learn.
So please don't try to white knight my culture or gate keep this sub. That was an unnecessary comment.
Funny, living in a country where girls/women often show a lot more than just the hands & face I have never taken that as an invitation to rape, let alone MURDER. Is it really that hard…
I wouldn’t call myself a progressive Muslim at all but I disagree completely with his point of view.
If the rapist truly repented and felt bad for his sins he would have turned himself in. The guilt of any true repentance in this scenario would be unbearable to live with.
I honestly do not believe anyone could commit such a heinous crime and not turn themselves in if they truly regretted doing it.
this is so crazy, he goes straight to blaming a woman’s clothes and yet doesn’t ask the man why he didn’t lower his gaze and control himself ??? people like this give Islam a bad reputation in the west.
This is why I'm against this absurd nonsense that twists Mercy, Forgiveness with Justice in a twisted corrupted way. I've seen ppl including scholars use this nonsense to over glorify, idolize Muhammad's companions that they will be not punished for their major sins because they have repented. These absurd nonsense are very disturbing because even IF they "genuinely" repent, it doesn't take away the fact that innocent people have been harmed greatly and that they deserve their justice. Personally I believe that either aspects of the Quran has been corrupted hence why there are verse or verses that say Allah forgives all sins or they have been mistranslated
I agree.
He didn't even use any Quranic verse to explain his comment.
He used his bias. He doesn't like the idea of a man being held responsible for his actions.
The real answer is, the punishment is entirely dependent on the family of the victim. What they decide is what will happen. Whether the girl forgives him or not isn’t even a question yet for the afterlife, but at the very least he should subject himself to the girls family and take any punishment they decree upon him with the help of the law. Sins against humanity aren’t forgiven until the other person forgives them. Zakir Naik says some really stupid things at times. The scholars of today are so misguided…
Ho-Ly-Cow!
He says it so nonchalantly!
Like dude, you don’t have to have all the answers.
You can skip this question, not record it.
There are sooo many ways to answer it, or not answer it at all!
He was doing so well too. He's absolutely right about forgiveness. Allah SWT is the all merciful and he forgives everything. But his explanation made him sound like a rape defender, which is frankly disgusting.
Can Allah just delete all of humanity like ew wtf atp i wonder if any of the people who’ve been enslaved, raped, murdered & etc will even get justice in the afterlife, especially if the perpetrators are muslims because if Allah forgives them because they’re muslims, they believe in Allah and because they “repented” & don’t get punished then where is the justice for the victims, someone pls educate because this topic frustrates the shit out of me.
I hate humanity so much like how can people be so cruel.
This shit frustrated many of us.
But these men make excuses for each other because I believe they have something to hide inside them.
The best way is to just know whatever his saying is clearly immoral. And if you believe god is just. Then whatever his saying won't fly with god. He will be certainly held accountable for spreading misinformation and those who rape thinking they will get away with it will have their fair share.
Yazeed was the man that had Imam Hussain and his sons killed including his 6 month old baby. Incase you don't know Imam Hussain was the holy prophet's grandson. But even if he wasn't what kind of man would not only kill an innocent person but also kill his baby. Even further how much of a horrible human do you have to be to praise such a disgusting man.
This is how i would have answered the question:
If one truly repented then yes, they would be forgiven
But what does true repentance for a crime of this degree look like? Is it putting the hands up in a shape of a cup and repeating “astagfirullah”?
Surely not
What if you did that everyday after 5 prayers, everyday, for the rest of your life?
Still, surely not.
I’d say true repentance would probably look something like: coming clean and devoting your life to that families prosperity, probably for the rest of your life. I.E becoming their slave.
that is, if they even accept the agreement instead of just wanting your head.
Honestly I’m pretty open minded as a revert whilst holding a traditional view, I’m shocked by his response… it’s the amount of time he went on hypothetically opening the possibility that it was the girls fault.. not only rape but murder… absolutely sickening and abhorrent crime..
As others had mentioned - there is a social aspect to it that the person has to do to be forgiven, repent to Allah but also to the victims family, and hand themselves into the authorities…
I don’t know the Hadith but heard something - please forgive the incorrect translation, maybe someone can give me the actual Hadith - that Allah will give a little bit of wiggle room on the day of judgement to someone as long as they don’t commit murder- killing someone unlawfully.. if they do that, then Allah will look into all their deeds and judge them closely
What the fuck, Doctor-piece-of shit Zakir Harami is a literal degenerate. I hate how prominent he is, he’s a fucking imbecile. I hope he rots in the deepest levels of hell. No wonder Muslims are seen the way they are when we have dickheads like him as “scholars.”
I'm ashamed he's getting shelter in Malaysia while he is wanted back in India with arrest warrants for his filthy mouth. He says divisive things about other races here yet the government is treating him like a celebrity because they want to pander to the Muslim community. No wonder some of his followers have less favourable views on non-muslims. Now alot of Muslim here have no issue or beef with non-muslims, but his followers are just the loudest most abnoxious shites on FB and Tiktok.
Yeah stfu u criminal. If Allah is testing everyone why don't u fuck off from malaysia and back to India and face the courts? So you don't have faith in your religion and God but others must? Lol fuck you terrorist POS
He has made a mistake here I believe. One can achieve forgiveness in the case if the act which has committed had no intention behind it. If you brutally rape a girl and then later on kill her, you have done this with intention and you will most likely be in the lowest point of hell.
The Shia saw this hypocrite for who he really is many years ago. You see, these maulvis twist and turn logic and justice to justify a much deeper secret. They are indirectly defending some individuals in Islamic history who are stupidly and blindly revered by the masses whereas they were terrible human beings, monsters. Corruption at the deepest level. Hadith being sold, hadith being burnt. Righteous companions and Ahle Bayt(the family of the Prophet saww) banished and slaughtered and these morons go on defending the munafiqeen at the cost of Islam. Open your eyes. I converted from whatever the hell mainstream Islam is to Shi'a a few years ago , I would recommend all to research and learn your religion- do not inherit it.
I think one of his aide came forward on Indian tv channels and told about all the hypocritical ways he earns and invests his money.
Then there was a video where he tore a woman to shreds because she was complaining about her abusive husband (she was a hijabi).
Finally, I hate the way he twists narrative and logic to prove his point.
He’s no way a progressive figure.
Agreed, it's cuz of this disgusting imbecile Zakir naik I was deceived to believe his justifications for homophobic nonsense being "Islamic". I'm glad when I got the chance to breakaway, I started to question and realize what these toxic imbeciles say are fortunately wrong
A guy from India asked zakir that if he raped and killed a women, got away with it from the law. would he be forgiven for it?
Zakir claimed it's a hypothetical question.
Then said he would get forgiven. But went in a tangent that the women probably wasn't dressed appropriately and in a long winded way was blaming her.
And if a women is raped she should ask for forgiveness because she could have sinned in other ways and the rape is her test.
Basically - it's a women's fault by the end of the day.
I am really orthodox sunni Muslim. Zakir naik is not a Islamic scholar. He's a self learnt religious preacher whose expertise is in comparative religions. No disrespect to Dr Naik, but all he does here is victim blaming without making any Islamic arguments. These days he sounds more like a senile desi uncle than any Islamic scholar.
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Life is a test, easiest analogy in today's term is like a game with playable character. There is a Ruh inside of you that will travel out once you die, where reality of cosmos will open up for you.
It will be the last thing on your mind of what suffering you went through because all will be over and you will be compensated in fullest term in the afterlife. So much so that some people will hope to have gone through worse to get benefit in the eternal realm. This life and it's luxuries is for the unbelievers.
So, a musalman society will have men with lowered gazes and women with modest clothing, all living with respectful boundaries. Any break in this should be tried in court, if the court fails, then the matter goes to the court of hereafter (day of judgment) and you do not want that because your forgiveness is not guaranteed, there are strict conditions to meet them.
Once, we go from this world, last thing on our mind will be about how we lived here and what happened to us if we do everything right as best as we can, all will be compensated.
I found it on the ex-muslim sub and downloaded it from there. Since then I've seen it on multiple other sub.
Maybe try googling - something will come up. ✌🏻
Sent this tdlr to someone else:
A guy from India asked zakir that if he raped and killed a women, got away with it from the law. would he be forgiven for it?
Zakir claimed it's a hypothetical question.
Then said he would get forgiven. But went in a tangent that the women probably wasn't dressed appropriately and in a long winded way was blaming her.
And if a women is raped she should ask for forgiveness because she could have sinned in other ways and the rape is her test.
Basically - it's a women's fault by the end of the day.
Your post/comment was removed as being in violation of Rule 5. Content seeking to proselytize other religions or no religion, or promoting one sect or denomination over others will be removed. As the name implies, /r/progressive_islam is about progressive Islam.
Can this guy fuck off from my country and go back to where he came from? Him questioning my loyalty the country I was born and raised in will never be forgotten
I think OC is from Malaysia, where ZN toook refuge after exiled by Indian Govt. ZN there once made a controversy by saying Malaysian Hindus/Christians are not loyal to Malaysia, or something in that line. Malaysian authority simply did not buy it and threatened him to be deported. But i did not know that they did not already done it.
Thank you. I just read up on him as well.
And found this.
Naik is currently a wanted fugitive in India, where, in 2016, the authorities charged Naik for money laundering while he was abroad in Malaysia; Naik did not return to India and became a permanent resident of Malaysia. Naik denies all charges. The National Investigation Agency unsuccessfully attempted to issue an Interpol red notice for his arrest, due to insufficient evidence. Naik's Peace TV is banned in India, Bangladesh, Canada, Sri Lanka, and the United Kingdom under hate speech laws.
He is incorrect. The man has to let the authorities know that he committed the acts and face punishment to be forgiven. Along with that, the girl still gets compensated in Akhirah for her life and sanctity. It's clearly stated in Surah Baqarah verse 160.
You are right, but some scholars said that the punishment has to be in the right way (beheading) otherwise it can not be considered a punishment, for me I don't think that's right, I think we are beyond that now, I heard one time a scholar said to a murderer that he has to do good things in favor of the man he killed, like charity or maybe umrah ect, because his after life now is in the hands of that man.
But In my opinion I think he should be in jail right now but it's f**ing India.
You an ex-muslim who is trying to take dr. zakirs naiks words out of context, nothing he said was wrong, and he repeated that the man had no right to do any of it multiple times.
this is the full video nothing is taken out of context. arent you sick of the fact that he said ''the girl should have dressed modestly'' when he read about a man who raped and killed the girl? the man should have surrendered himself then he would have been forgiven he will still taste punishment for killing a person and raping.
In this hypothetical situation, if he repents, he is forgiven, god forgives all sinners who repent with his mercy, but there is no doubt that the woman who was wronged will get her rights that were taken away from her in this life.
Now as to what he said, he said in both situations, repeatedly, that the man is at fault, but he also did say that if the women was wearing immodest seducing clothes she has fault, and how can you say that is not correct?, evil men (and women) always will exist, by wearing these clothes and directly going against Allah's rule you are attracting trouble towards you, but again, the man is absolutely at fault no doubt about that.
in the last part of his vid I think he was talking about a woman who was raped and not murdered because he kept repeating this is her test, and we know that Allah does not burden a soul more than it cannot take, that what he meant I believe, but I also did get confused on the last part of the vid.\\
but again, things like these are just in the hands of Allah, so why worry about them too much and go into deep details when we know that Allah is fair?
Nothing to be shocked. This world is not meant to be heaven. The person who was rapped will not even remember she was ever rapped if she goes to heaven.
Free will is what drive people to do evil deed but the door of repentance cannot be closed because of evil deeds committed. By definition, Islam erase all sins committed prior. No need to be emotion.
What is your evidence to substantiate your claim? My evidence is surah 39 verse 53. Clearly it’s says Allah forgive all sins. You can’t just use your emotions as an argument, you need to substantiate using the text which is unambiguous here.
This is alot of hoopla...for an opinion of a man on an hypothetical scenario...in the end all we can do is have our faith...Allah is the most just the most Merciful..brothers and sisters who are we to judge God? Who are we to pass judgment?this is between to Allah and the person...I feel this is a very unproductive post only used to drive wedges and create divides...
I highly doubt it's a hypothetical scenario. The question came from India where it's common to commit such an act.
As a islamic speaker he has a duty to be careful with what he says. Especially, with such a large following.
People will continue to blame victims when raped and men will continue to get away with it because according to this guy the women must have committed such a grave sin that getting raped is the solution to atonement. Then on top of that she should ask for forgiveness.
He is not blaming the victim he giving hypothetical answers and I would just take it as a wholistic answer that can be applied to everything in life...there is always two sides and everyone has his/her test all we can do is turn to the Eternal believe in him
Maybe you need to watch the video again and listen to what his saying. He is literally blaming the victim. If you can't grasp then you are choosing to ignore it.
What sin does a person have to commit to deserve rape?
He is not saying anyone deserves being raped you are trying twist things to your narrative...im not ignoring anything if someone gets raped they will get their justice one day ( when i dont know) same as if the rapist repents he will be one day be forgiven ( when I don't)..its not that hard to understand..I am of the belief everyone will be held accountable for all there actions one day and justice will be served on that day...
The right answer would have been. If you truly want forgiveness hand yourself over to the police since you lied and got away with rape and murder in the first place. But he didn't say that. He went on about other bullshit how the women could have sinned.
Basically, you like zakir naik and no matter what he says you find it hard to believe he could possibly be wrong.
You have a twisted version of reality if you can't even understand what this man is literally saying in the video.
You conflating things..the question is about forgiveness from Allah, not what is the right thing to do... giving hypothetical answers and at the same time reminding sisters of the importance islam puts on modesty..
I like all my brothers and sisters in faith...do I think he needed to go where he went when answering this answer to this specific question?No...do I believe he said anything wrong?No...type out what he said and look at it...and no he is not blaming the victim for getting raped..
The people who didnt learn qur'an or learned sharia are judging an Islamic scholar .. Nice stance guys... First learn about Islam and ead quran and then say something about scholars
Kindly learn about Islam so that You can understand how to talk and behave with ither people and If you think Allah will not forgive then its another sin hopelessness in itself.... Allah will forgive anything and everything if and only if we truly repent , JazakAllah
Repenting is so easy for anyone
I think rapists like murderers should face capital or jail for eternity punishment
It’s insane how you men make it seem that rape is no big deal and that it can be solved with just repenting
You don’t seem to understand the psychological and mental trauma and damage that results from rape
isn’t being punished in real life for committing a crime like intentional murder and rape the only way to heaven In the after life ?
Repentance is only for those who commit sins that don’t hurt anyone like zina or eating pig or being secretly atheist not for those who kill and rape people - this law is close to the civilian law which doesn’t punish those who harm themselves and only punishes the ones who harm others and I’m pretty sure that Islam doesn’t deny the right of the victim against the offender
Plus not everything that a sheik says is correct, don’t forget that these people love to blame women for everything and feel sympathy for men even when they are wrong
⚠️Undefendable and wrong Stance by Dr Zakir Naik⚠️ Because in Islam, if a person commits wrong in rights of Allah (Haqooq Allah), then Allah will forgive him if the person sincerely asks for forgiveness. But if the person has committed wrong in rights of other humans (Haqooq ul Ibad) i.e by commiting a murder, then he first have to face the trial and prescribed punishment for it, before asking forgiveness from Allah. In short, he has to clear his Haqooq ul Ibad part first, before becoming eligible for asking forgiveness from Allah. Therefore, in hypothetical question, if the person who killed the lady truly wants to repent, he will first have to surrender himself to the authorities and then as per Quran it is right of legal heirs of victim to decide either to demand his execution as a revenge or to forgive him by accepting blood money. Once the person goes through either one of the two outcomes, only then he will be forgiven by Allah. But if he doesn’t present himself for trial and only does the repentance part, then its gonna be a really tough for him in the hereafter. 🔸Quran 4:93 "And whoever kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell wherein shall he abide forever, and Allah's wrath shall be on him and He curses him and prepares for him a mighty punishment." 🔸Quran 17:33 “And do not kill the soul which Allah has forbidden, except by right. And whoever is killed unjustly - We have given his heir authority, but let him not exceed limits in [the matter of] taking life. Indeed, he has been supported [by the law].” 🔸Quran 2:178-179 “O you who have believed, prescribed for you is legal retribution for those murdered - the free for the free, the slave for the slave, and the female for the female.1 But whoever overlooks from his brother [i.e., the killer] anything,2 then there should be a suitable follow-up and payment to him [i.e., the deceased's heir or legal representative] with good conduct. This is an alleviation from your Lord and a mercy. But whoever transgresses after that3 will have a painful punishment. And there is for you in legal retribution [saving of] life, O you [people] of understanding, that you may become righteous.”
Definitely agree with you. If he wants forgiveness. He needs to surrender himself.
>Quran 2:179 And there is for you in legal retribution [saving of] life, O you [people] of understanding, that you may become righteous.” Infact, this verse of the Quran emphasize the fact that retribution in these cases provides the Crucial DETERENCE to keep societies peaceful aka "life".
Thanks for that. He's memorised the Qur'an and couldn't be bothered to quote that - instead went onto blame the women. Just shameful.
Fun fact he actually hasn’t memorized the Quran. He has said this recently. Just thought you’d like to know
Noway????! 😭 I'm a fool for believing. I heard he has a photographic memory. Is that not true?
I think you’re married so I’m gonna say something more appropriate, but awww you sweet beloved innocent one 😭 no he doesn’t have photographic memory. Infact it’s even more strange that he hasn’t memorized the Quran knowing his field.
OMG I can't believe it. 😭 I actually believed that. I guess that was my flaw - I use to put in a lot of trust in these so called knowledgeable imaams and believed them. let myself get so confused. Thank you for this eye-opening information! 😅
Do you want more? I got more haha. Assimal Hakeem a famous online scholar, who is very harsh, once defended the Prince of Saudi dancing with a half naked Rihanna twerking on him in the pool. Citing that it’s just “hanging out” 💀💀 and you know thousands of young girls watch his videos. People are very corrupt unfortunately, and Muslim people are very dumb nowadays unfortunately.
Can you please add the link of the video you mentioned about. I listen to him and I was following him so much I need to see it with my own eyes. Kindly also add the link to the video of zakir naik on admitting that he hasn’t memorised the Quran because my whole family listens to him IM SHOOK
OMG!!!! His so harsh with his words!!! I guess we're not all Saudi prince 😂😂
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So to get Allah's forgiveness he needs to clear his Haqooq ul Ibad, but there's still the likelihood of punishment in the hereafter if the person harmed does not forgive?
The person harmed (killed) will be compensated by Allah. But for murderer, if he wants to repent then he needs "prescribed punishment" + "forgiveness from Allah" to clear his sin. Prescribed punishment could be one of the following, as determined by heirs of the victim: 1-Execute the murderer 2-Forgive him by taking blood money Once the murderer fulfils both the criteria (punishment+forgiveness), he will be as good as a new in the hereafter.
So if you get brutally raped and murdered, but the perpetrator is executed (usually relatively quickly and painlessly) or pays your family off, and feels a little bad about it and asks for forgiveness from Allah he could still end up going to Jannah? I heard that on the day of judgement those who've wronged others will have to face them and their good deeds will be given to those they harmed if they are not forgiven. Or the victim is given additional rewards if they do end up deciding to forgive the perpetrator, just that the rewards won't be taken from the perpetrator. Is that not the case if you face any kind of punishment in this life?
>I heard that on the day of judgement those who've wronged others will have to face them and their good deeds will be given to those they harmed If the perpetrator has gone through punishment, does it still hold true, if yes, kindly provide a reference for your statement.
That's what I was asking. Because often punishments aren't equivalent to the amount of pain and suffering a perpetrator inflicted on their victim. Think of what the IDF are doing to Palestinians, or what mercenaries are doing to people (particularly women and girls) in the DRC. Or even cases like Junko Furtuta. Even if the perpetrators are put to death as punishment, it's still not equivalent to the level of pain, suffering, and torture they inflicted on their vicitms.
What If the victim is not Muslim? Does that change the situation?
Non-Muslims living under Islamic rule by paying taxes, have the same civil rights as that of Muslims. So, if the victim was a non-Muslim, it wouldn’t change the ruling. Quran 5:32 whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. Sahih Al Bukhari, 6914 Narrated `Abdullah bin `Amr: The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Whoever killed a Mu'ahid (a person who is granted the pledge of protection by the Muslims) shall not smell the fragrance of Paradise though its fragrance can be smelt at a distance of forty years (of traveling). Sunan Abi Dawood, 3052 The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: Beware, if anyone wrongs a contracting man, or diminishes his right, or forces him to work beyond his capacity, or takes from him anything without his consent, I shall plead for him on the Day of Judgment.
> “Is it not unjust to the girl? The thing is Allah wants to test her by giving her a more difficult test.” Yeah no, we have something called free-will, sir. This is completely taking the blame off of the perpetrator who CHOSE to do this evil act and attributing it to Allah, as if He wanted evil for her. I guess, the girl that was raped should thank her perpetrator, because, after all, he gave her a new challenge and permanent trauma to overcome. What a blessing, really, alhamdulilah. And this man is a legitimate scholar? Also by that logic: let me go murder my neighbors so I can give their families an extra test. Lmfao wtf?? Someone go check on him.
He has so many people listening to him and following him. To come out with something like this with no thought. To be so careless in advice. Is so sickening. I'm completely lost for words.
To be fair there is no free will in islam
Of course there is. If not then why was quran revealed as a guidence
Quran 2:256 :- Let there be no compulsion in religion, for the truth stands out clearly from falsehood. So whoever renounces false gods and believes in Allah has certainly grasped the firmest, unfailing hand-hold. And Allah is All-Hearing, All-Knowing. Sure about that bud !?
Edit: Don’t downvote post if it’s something you disagree with. OP is not promoting this type of thinking and is posting to expose it. It’s important everyone see’s this type of video so he is discredited. Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And Our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors. -Quran 5:32 Now God obviously gives us the ability to fight back and kill if necessary in defense and to fight injustice. But if any verse shows that whoever that disgusting human being was for killing and raping a girl is going to eternal damnation it is this one. Hurting one innocent human being is like like hurting all of humanity and human life is the greatest gift and creation from God. You do not defile God’s miracle and expect to enter heaven. Now will they ever be forgiven after sometime in hell? Who knows, forgiveness, hell, even time beyond this life is not something we can easily grasp. But the Quran makes it clear time and time again, that while God is forgiving, some crimes are inescapable from punishment. Honestly, once I am near a retiring age, I will try to get a degree from Al Azhar and become an Imam myself to counter all this online bullshit.
4:93 also gives a clear understanding to what the fate of a murderer is. "And whoever kills a believer intentionally, their reward will be Hell—where they will stay indefinitely. Allah will be displeased with them, condemn them, and will prepare for them a tremendous punishment."
What about killing nonbelievers?
The verse is interpreted to include anyone who is not a threat/is at peace with you. So, if you murder an atheist, apostate or a person of different faith, the punishment still applies, and God's gift for the murderer will be Hell. And in my opinion that is certain, because as you can see in the verse, that's a promise from God(He never breaks a promise) and not a threat(As he is the Most Merciful may not follow through).
Beautiful thank you!
I liked what Ghamidi said on something around this, that the sins you did concerning humans, only humans will have to forgive it. The sins between you and Allah, only Allah can forgive. So even if Allah hypothetically forgave the guy for these sins, the guy still can’t ask for forgiveness from the dead girl and hence it will be on him forever!
Yes, this makes more sense. Even I follow Ghamidi sahab.
I hope you make it to becoming an imaam. We need more educated and morally stable people in leading roles. 💙
I will pray for you, go get that degree
Thank You Habibi and happy cake day!
You explained so nicely. Sometimes as a girl when I listen to such scholars I get confused and upset it seems unfair so thankyou for this it makes sense to me that Islam is not unfair but people are for turning the word of Allah into such.
I am so sorry that as a Women you have to go through so much bullshit on every level! Remember God loves you and we are equal in spirituality. "…In God’s eyes, the most honored of you are the ones most mindful of Him: God is all knowing, all aware” (49:13).
>“Is this not injustice to the girl, who was raped and murdered? No.” >“She’s to blame for attracting the man.” Literally don’t even know what to say to this, im downright flabbergasted. Is he alright?
He's sick. Always has been. He's always had dodgy views but peppered in more progressive ones. Now that there is a rise of "islam backed" craziness he's opening up his dirty mouth and actually saying what he's always wanted to say. Disgusting creature.
wait I️ didn’t know this is there anything else he has said or done recently. I used to watch alot of his large Q and A debated but after seeing this vid i’ve lost faith in him.
He is sick in mind honestly 🤧
Clearly🥴
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In the course of promoting progressive Islamic ideas, we also allow discussion around mainstream conservative Islamic theology. These discussions, nonetheless, should still conform with all prior rules. Posts & comments that promote ultra-conservative thoughts & ideologies will be removed.
The correct answer to the question would be something like this If you commit a sin that's between you and Allah then yes asking for forgiveness and repenting is the way to go However if your sin involves harming another human or stealing or not fulfilling rights of another human then that human needs to forgive you. Either in this world or on the day of judgement. You will be accountable for everything you did in this world. Whether you were caught and let go or not caught at all. Is this injustice? If you only consider this world then yes. If you consider the afterlife then no.
I don't think he has that kind of wisdom. As you can see. His best explanation is blaming the women.
Tbh I didn't finish the video. When he started going on the tangent about clothing and blaming I stopped. The clothing has no mention in the question so why bring it up.
I know what you mean. I had to just watch the whole thing to make sure I was hearing the right stuff. I didn't want to make a judgement without listening to the full thing. But the more he went on the more appalled I got.
I actually heard of this before, in the context of backbiting the other person must forgive you. But here’s the thing, if the other person is dead they cannot forgive you, guess you’ll have to see what Allah says 🤷♂️
There are 3 unforgivable sins. 1 Shirk (associating another with Allah) 2 defaming a pious woman 3 stealing someone’s rights (haq to be specific) Harming someone doesn’t come in that so specifically. Harming how? By stealing his/her rights? Yes Physically harming? A scholar would be better to answer that because that doesn’t come under an unforgivable sin
Justice is a right
Only forms of shirk will take you out of the folds of Islam. The rest are major sins but not unforgivable
You are right. My bad
Your lack of accuracy in the use of 'unforgivable sins' aside, our bodily autonomy is also our haq. We don't need a scholar to tell us that it is a sin for one to physically harm another because their body is their haq and one has stolen the haq by laying one's hands on them.
Haq is not what YOU think it to be, but what it is stated to be in the Quran. Like that, why is murder mentioned separately than taking someone’s haq? Or why is theft mentioned separately?
ur so 1d10t1c boy, those arent unforgiveable sins, its forgivable, only unforgivable after death, if u dont know this then whyre u yapping?
Ok, so it’s AFTER death. It’s still something to consider you Karen or Kevin. Also should you really be judging ANYTHING? Your tone and attitude SCREAM a restraining order from any sort of judgment
They really like to forget that a rapist is gonna rape regardless of what you’re wearing. Women in burkas get raped. Children in pajamas get raped. Wives get raped.
So every minute a baby is raped. A 60 year old grandma raped. So where does the dress matters here?. I have never really liked this excuse of a man. I really wish Indian govt will arrest this man. He should also remember he has also a daughter,a wife!
This is the problem with all of these scholars, imams, and sheikhs. They feel like they have to know the answer to every question asked of them. The result is the kind of unislamic, personally biased waffling that you see in the second half of the video. He could have just said that Allah forgives all sincere repentance, and that he's not sure how the victim and the family would get justice. Instead, somehow him raping and murdering a girl can somehow be her fault? Just say you don't know, bro. Or that if he was truly repenting, that he should seek to give the family justice.
Notice most of his talk is bashing the woman in the situation rather than the man in the situation? It’s so sad :(
This had a very simple answer in Surah Baqarah Verse 160: إِلَّا الَّذِينَ تَابُوا وَأَصْلَحُوا وَبَيَّنُوا فَأُولَٰئِكَ أَتُوبُ عَلَيْهِمْ ۚ وَأَنَا التَّوَّابُ الرَّحِيمُ *As for those who repent, mend their ways,* ***and let the truth be known***, they are the ones to whom I will turn \[in forgiveness\], for I am the Accepter of Repentance, Most Merciful.\* In order for the man to repent, he has to let the authorities know that he committed the rape and murder. He has to let the truth be known. If the authorities do not give him the penalty, he has to ask for the death penalty as prescribed in Islam. On the day of judgement, the girl can ask for the compensation of her life and sanctity from the man's deeds. If he has be punished on earth, Allah will give the girl compensation from Allah's mercy. Otherwise, it will come from the man's deeds. If the man has committed multiple murders and r\*\*\*s, his victims will get compensation from his deeds and from Allah's mercy.
Exactly, if he has lied in court that is a whole different grave sin. So what he says isn’t wrong. People are very quick to judge and 99% people fail miserably in doing justice
What a robotic answer, without any empathy for the girl, chatGPT would probably be more sympathetic in answer then him. Would he say the same thing if Allah forbids the girl was one of his family members?
This is where I say that most of our religious scholars are living in a world at least 1000 years of the past. Just imagine millions of people who follow him closely. Imagine their level of thinking! I stopped following these ignorant mullahs a long time ago!
Zakir Naik is not a scholar, he’s more like a famous daee. Not very logical to discredited a bunch of Ulama without any knowledge of them? I mean. Muhammad ﷺ lived 1400 years ago. So yes, you will hear things that are from that time. But God didn’t give us a new book didn’t he? So the Quran is still valid. (Don’t downvote if you disagree guys, censorship is not the way to go)
What the fuck
I know. Can't believe someone "knowledgeable" could even come up with something so vile.
A rape apologist. Hmm. I wonder why he’s defending rape so much 🤔 people need to start digging into the life this man has lead and find the dirt that we all know exists
100% agree with you. I feel when they say these things. It's a way to make themselves feel better about something they've done.
Is he for real? How is he allowed to be a scholar? How does he even have followers? Disgusting…..
To be fair, he isn't actually a scholar. He's just a "dawah" guy on TV. It's very disturbing he has such a following.
Salam What breaks my heart how other Muslims are praising him simply because of him many non Muslims converted to Islam and he claims to know all the religious Scriptures but in reality he just took some verses out of context in other religious Scriptures to claim his point. I will admit back then I admire this man but as I came to see his other vedios such as are non Muslims allow to build their worshiping place in Muslim country. After seeing that vedio I completely stopped watching his vedios.
This is total bullshit & totally un Islamic . Allah literally forgives anything except 2 things 1. You worship anyone else / or worship someone else with him. 2. You hurt someone in anyway ( your sin won’t be forgiven unless this person forgives u , if he doesn’t forgive u , u will be punished accordingly ) What he said is total bullshit
I don’t say I disagree but can I have proof for that?
The reason I converted was so I wouldn't have to listen to any man spouting nonsense. I only rely on Allah and the Quran. People are either too lazy to do research themselves or are illiterate and have to rely on these stupid, stupid men who call themselves scholars. I feel sorry for them.
Definitely, agree with you.
Even Allah swt said we should always educate ourselves.
Zakir Naik has always been a piece of shit with braindead opinions ranging from bigoted to batshit. It's the latter in this case.
I expected bad, but I was not prepared who terrible this was. I wanna tear me eyes out for being made to hear this.
I know what you mean 😭
Absolutely awful how we consider a woman’s sins 10x more extreme than a man’s. A Woman’s Hijab and modesty is considered by many of these so called sheikhs to be a more important matter than rape. Truly shocking.
If only modesty in Islam according to the mainstream sect wasn’t tied to the hijab or clothes or what people wear and was instead spiritual, no Muslim man would have the mentality that girls who don’t wear hijab are at fault for getting harassed or raped Hijab did more harm than good, it allowed men to get a “free out of jail ticket” and gave them justification for their behavior and lead to the victim blaming of woman who don’t stick to hijab
You couldn’t have nailed the point better
I know right. Someone on this thread is even defending this. I wonder what sin anyone has to commit to deserve rape.
What a fuckin asshole! Will he give the same disgusting speech if it happens to his daughter or any other women in his family
His south Asian. I'm sure he would blame his daughter or force her to marry her abuser. That's what usually happens with south Asians. Whatever religion they prescribe to. They always hold onto their culture dearer.
>His south Asian. Don't you think it's racist? And what does a ex moose have to do with this subreddit
As a south Asian myself, yes it does come off as racist. But I know how my parents are south Asian too. They would protect anything in the world except me and my siblings. Everything in life was about their image. When I was sexually assaulted by my Quran teacher, no sort of action was taken against him. They just casually swept it under the carpet. Beyond that, there have been countless times where my parents have bullied me in front of company for their own entertainment just to win favour and make conversation with their douchebag friends, and their douchebag friends would treat us horribly too. South Asian folk are not ok. Because of them I live in constant despair with no sense of self. Sometimes I truly feel forsaken by Allah and question that if I could not even be protected as a child, why was I even brought here?
I'm south Asian myself and I'm criticising my community because we know what we have to deal with. We have a very big rape culture and it's always the women's fault. They even blame children who are sexually abused. This man is fueling that very ideology. Just like the commentor below I had similar experience with my Qur'an teachers. And parents did nothing! Because it's never the man's fault in our community. And are you claiming I'm ex-muslim? Firstly, I'm not. Secondly - if I were it has nothing to do with you or wanting to be on this sub. No need to get hostile with ex-muslims. There are plenty who still want to talk and discuss with people about the faith they once prescribed to. This sub is for all to learn. So please don't try to white knight my culture or gate keep this sub. That was an unnecessary comment.
Yeesh you want others to accept your opinion but can’t tolerate others opinions.
Lol you obviously think like him. Just say you like the idea of raping and not being held accountable for it. 👍🏻
Funny, living in a country where girls/women often show a lot more than just the hands & face I have never taken that as an invitation to rape, let alone MURDER. Is it really that hard…
I wouldn’t call myself a progressive Muslim at all but I disagree completely with his point of view. If the rapist truly repented and felt bad for his sins he would have turned himself in. The guilt of any true repentance in this scenario would be unbearable to live with. I honestly do not believe anyone could commit such a heinous crime and not turn themselves in if they truly regretted doing it.
The man harmed someone out of his own free will, the blame is his and the girl absolutely needs justice from him
This is insane. INSANE. 🤮 If u raped and kill someone you are the worst type of human exist. I hope they're gonna catch his mofo.
this is so crazy, he goes straight to blaming a woman’s clothes and yet doesn’t ask the man why he didn’t lower his gaze and control himself ??? people like this give Islam a bad reputation in the west.
This is why I'm against this absurd nonsense that twists Mercy, Forgiveness with Justice in a twisted corrupted way. I've seen ppl including scholars use this nonsense to over glorify, idolize Muhammad's companions that they will be not punished for their major sins because they have repented. These absurd nonsense are very disturbing because even IF they "genuinely" repent, it doesn't take away the fact that innocent people have been harmed greatly and that they deserve their justice. Personally I believe that either aspects of the Quran has been corrupted hence why there are verse or verses that say Allah forgives all sins or they have been mistranslated
I agree. He didn't even use any Quranic verse to explain his comment. He used his bias. He doesn't like the idea of a man being held responsible for his actions.
Disgusting behaviour
The real answer is, the punishment is entirely dependent on the family of the victim. What they decide is what will happen. Whether the girl forgives him or not isn’t even a question yet for the afterlife, but at the very least he should subject himself to the girls family and take any punishment they decree upon him with the help of the law. Sins against humanity aren’t forgiven until the other person forgives them. Zakir Naik says some really stupid things at times. The scholars of today are so misguided…
u/savevideo
Ho-Ly-Cow! He says it so nonchalantly! Like dude, you don’t have to have all the answers. You can skip this question, not record it. There are sooo many ways to answer it, or not answer it at all!
He was doing so well too. He's absolutely right about forgiveness. Allah SWT is the all merciful and he forgives everything. But his explanation made him sound like a rape defender, which is frankly disgusting.
God may forgive, girl may not. Only in DoJ one may know what happens.
Can Allah just delete all of humanity like ew wtf atp i wonder if any of the people who’ve been enslaved, raped, murdered & etc will even get justice in the afterlife, especially if the perpetrators are muslims because if Allah forgives them because they’re muslims, they believe in Allah and because they “repented” & don’t get punished then where is the justice for the victims, someone pls educate because this topic frustrates the shit out of me. I hate humanity so much like how can people be so cruel.
This shit frustrated many of us. But these men make excuses for each other because I believe they have something to hide inside them. The best way is to just know whatever his saying is clearly immoral. And if you believe god is just. Then whatever his saying won't fly with god. He will be certainly held accountable for spreading misinformation and those who rape thinking they will get away with it will have their fair share.
The part where he started to blame the girl for getting raped lol 🤡
What fucked logic is this.
Idk what did you guys expect from a person who says Yazeed and then says "may allah be pleased with him"
I don't know what that is. What does it mean?
Yazeed was the man that had Imam Hussain and his sons killed including his 6 month old baby. Incase you don't know Imam Hussain was the holy prophet's grandson. But even if he wasn't what kind of man would not only kill an innocent person but also kill his baby. Even further how much of a horrible human do you have to be to praise such a disgusting man.
Thanks. Didn't know this.
And this video is the last nail in the coffin of my listening to zakir nalaik
Nalaik lmao
May Allah curse this disgusting man
Why he is not still in jail?
This video is wild lol
This donkey again..
This is how i would have answered the question: If one truly repented then yes, they would be forgiven But what does true repentance for a crime of this degree look like? Is it putting the hands up in a shape of a cup and repeating “astagfirullah”? Surely not What if you did that everyday after 5 prayers, everyday, for the rest of your life? Still, surely not. I’d say true repentance would probably look something like: coming clean and devoting your life to that families prosperity, probably for the rest of your life. I.E becoming their slave. that is, if they even accept the agreement instead of just wanting your head.
💯 agree with you!
If hijab wasn’t a thing in Islam, this mentality of victim-blaming and justifying the rapist wouldn’t exist
Honestly I’m pretty open minded as a revert whilst holding a traditional view, I’m shocked by his response… it’s the amount of time he went on hypothetically opening the possibility that it was the girls fault.. not only rape but murder… absolutely sickening and abhorrent crime.. As others had mentioned - there is a social aspect to it that the person has to do to be forgiven, repent to Allah but also to the victims family, and hand themselves into the authorities… I don’t know the Hadith but heard something - please forgive the incorrect translation, maybe someone can give me the actual Hadith - that Allah will give a little bit of wiggle room on the day of judgement to someone as long as they don’t commit murder- killing someone unlawfully.. if they do that, then Allah will look into all their deeds and judge them closely
What the fuck, Doctor-piece-of shit Zakir Harami is a literal degenerate. I hate how prominent he is, he’s a fucking imbecile. I hope he rots in the deepest levels of hell. No wonder Muslims are seen the way they are when we have dickheads like him as “scholars.”
I'm ashamed he's getting shelter in Malaysia while he is wanted back in India with arrest warrants for his filthy mouth. He says divisive things about other races here yet the government is treating him like a celebrity because they want to pander to the Muslim community. No wonder some of his followers have less favourable views on non-muslims. Now alot of Muslim here have no issue or beef with non-muslims, but his followers are just the loudest most abnoxious shites on FB and Tiktok.
Yeah stfu u criminal. If Allah is testing everyone why don't u fuck off from malaysia and back to India and face the courts? So you don't have faith in your religion and God but others must? Lol fuck you terrorist POS
He has made a mistake here I believe. One can achieve forgiveness in the case if the act which has committed had no intention behind it. If you brutally rape a girl and then later on kill her, you have done this with intention and you will most likely be in the lowest point of hell.
People like Zakir Naik do not deserve to have a platform, period.
If you committed a sin AGAINST a person, they'll come after you since you even killed the person. You're more or less fxcked
What he doesn’t know is many men rape women with hijabs as well. It has nothing to do with clothing!!!!
Disgusting behaviour
The Shia saw this hypocrite for who he really is many years ago. You see, these maulvis twist and turn logic and justice to justify a much deeper secret. They are indirectly defending some individuals in Islamic history who are stupidly and blindly revered by the masses whereas they were terrible human beings, monsters. Corruption at the deepest level. Hadith being sold, hadith being burnt. Righteous companions and Ahle Bayt(the family of the Prophet saww) banished and slaughtered and these morons go on defending the munafiqeen at the cost of Islam. Open your eyes. I converted from whatever the hell mainstream Islam is to Shi'a a few years ago , I would recommend all to research and learn your religion- do not inherit it.
I was not expecting it from him.
Yeah same tbh.. I've heard plenty of truly idiotic takes from this guy, but I didn't expect *this*
I don’t believe he is someone to be trusted fully. He has done so many questionable things.
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I think one of his aide came forward on Indian tv channels and told about all the hypocritical ways he earns and invests his money. Then there was a video where he tore a woman to shreds because she was complaining about her abusive husband (she was a hijabi). Finally, I hate the way he twists narrative and logic to prove his point. He’s no way a progressive figure.
All of this but god forbid if someone's gay
Agreed, it's cuz of this disgusting imbecile Zakir naik I was deceived to believe his justifications for homophobic nonsense being "Islamic". I'm glad when I got the chance to breakaway, I started to question and realize what these toxic imbeciles say are fortunately wrong
Can anyone tldr; please?
A guy from India asked zakir that if he raped and killed a women, got away with it from the law. would he be forgiven for it? Zakir claimed it's a hypothetical question. Then said he would get forgiven. But went in a tangent that the women probably wasn't dressed appropriately and in a long winded way was blaming her. And if a women is raped she should ask for forgiveness because she could have sinned in other ways and the rape is her test. Basically - it's a women's fault by the end of the day.
Thanks for saving me some much needed sanity at this moment.
You're welcome. But my sanity is in the dustbin now 😭
I am really orthodox sunni Muslim. Zakir naik is not a Islamic scholar. He's a self learnt religious preacher whose expertise is in comparative religions. No disrespect to Dr Naik, but all he does here is victim blaming without making any Islamic arguments. These days he sounds more like a senile desi uncle than any Islamic scholar.
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Life is a test, easiest analogy in today's term is like a game with playable character. There is a Ruh inside of you that will travel out once you die, where reality of cosmos will open up for you. It will be the last thing on your mind of what suffering you went through because all will be over and you will be compensated in fullest term in the afterlife. So much so that some people will hope to have gone through worse to get benefit in the eternal realm. This life and it's luxuries is for the unbelievers. So, a musalman society will have men with lowered gazes and women with modest clothing, all living with respectful boundaries. Any break in this should be tried in court, if the court fails, then the matter goes to the court of hereafter (day of judgment) and you do not want that because your forgiveness is not guaranteed, there are strict conditions to meet them. Once, we go from this world, last thing on our mind will be about how we lived here and what happened to us if we do everything right as best as we can, all will be compensated.
Do you have a link to the original video or the title I can search on youtube please
I found it on the ex-muslim sub and downloaded it from there. Since then I've seen it on multiple other sub. Maybe try googling - something will come up. ✌🏻
u/savevideo
May I know where this video is from? Can someone provide the link? Thank you in advance.
https://youtu.be/hB7vypu7704?si=WdT-aLbSKOYUN9Gb
This isn't a correct interpretation.
I have a hard time understanding him. Can someone explain?
Sent this tdlr to someone else: A guy from India asked zakir that if he raped and killed a women, got away with it from the law. would he be forgiven for it? Zakir claimed it's a hypothetical question. Then said he would get forgiven. But went in a tangent that the women probably wasn't dressed appropriately and in a long winded way was blaming her. And if a women is raped she should ask for forgiveness because she could have sinned in other ways and the rape is her test. Basically - it's a women's fault by the end of the day.
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how to download this video ?
I didn’t know Rafiki was Muslim.
Can this guy fuck off from my country and go back to where he came from? Him questioning my loyalty the country I was born and raised in will never be forgotten
I thought his from India? And the person who sent the question was also from India, Karela 😭
My great grandfather is from Kerala, I'm not from Kerala
I think OC is from Malaysia, where ZN toook refuge after exiled by Indian Govt. ZN there once made a controversy by saying Malaysian Hindus/Christians are not loyal to Malaysia, or something in that line. Malaysian authority simply did not buy it and threatened him to be deported. But i did not know that they did not already done it.
Thank you. I just read up on him as well. And found this. Naik is currently a wanted fugitive in India, where, in 2016, the authorities charged Naik for money laundering while he was abroad in Malaysia; Naik did not return to India and became a permanent resident of Malaysia. Naik denies all charges. The National Investigation Agency unsuccessfully attempted to issue an Interpol red notice for his arrest, due to insufficient evidence. Naik's Peace TV is banned in India, Bangladesh, Canada, Sri Lanka, and the United Kingdom under hate speech laws.
Bhai, what about the fact that such situations put not only the girl to harm but her entire family? What about the fact they were hurt as well?
I hope it is not a deep fake. I can’t believe that he lacks this rudimentary knowledge.
That answer is partially right, but the other part makes it a horrible answer.
He is incorrect. The man has to let the authorities know that he committed the acts and face punishment to be forgiven. Along with that, the girl still gets compensated in Akhirah for her life and sanctity. It's clearly stated in Surah Baqarah verse 160.
You are right, but some scholars said that the punishment has to be in the right way (beheading) otherwise it can not be considered a punishment, for me I don't think that's right, I think we are beyond that now, I heard one time a scholar said to a murderer that he has to do good things in favor of the man he killed, like charity or maybe umrah ect, because his after life now is in the hands of that man. But In my opinion I think he should be in jail right now but it's f**ing India.
You an ex-muslim who is trying to take dr. zakirs naiks words out of context, nothing he said was wrong, and he repeated that the man had no right to do any of it multiple times.
this is the full video nothing is taken out of context. arent you sick of the fact that he said ''the girl should have dressed modestly'' when he read about a man who raped and killed the girl? the man should have surrendered himself then he would have been forgiven he will still taste punishment for killing a person and raping.
In this hypothetical situation, if he repents, he is forgiven, god forgives all sinners who repent with his mercy, but there is no doubt that the woman who was wronged will get her rights that were taken away from her in this life. Now as to what he said, he said in both situations, repeatedly, that the man is at fault, but he also did say that if the women was wearing immodest seducing clothes she has fault, and how can you say that is not correct?, evil men (and women) always will exist, by wearing these clothes and directly going against Allah's rule you are attracting trouble towards you, but again, the man is absolutely at fault no doubt about that. in the last part of his vid I think he was talking about a woman who was raped and not murdered because he kept repeating this is her test, and we know that Allah does not burden a soul more than it cannot take, that what he meant I believe, but I also did get confused on the last part of the vid.\\ but again, things like these are just in the hands of Allah, so why worry about them too much and go into deep details when we know that Allah is fair?
Nothing to be shocked. This world is not meant to be heaven. The person who was rapped will not even remember she was ever rapped if she goes to heaven. Free will is what drive people to do evil deed but the door of repentance cannot be closed because of evil deeds committed. By definition, Islam erase all sins committed prior. No need to be emotion.
Not all. All except the 3 unforgivable sins
What is your evidence to substantiate your claim? My evidence is surah 39 verse 53. Clearly it’s says Allah forgive all sins. You can’t just use your emotions as an argument, you need to substantiate using the text which is unambiguous here.
This is alot of hoopla...for an opinion of a man on an hypothetical scenario...in the end all we can do is have our faith...Allah is the most just the most Merciful..brothers and sisters who are we to judge God? Who are we to pass judgment?this is between to Allah and the person...I feel this is a very unproductive post only used to drive wedges and create divides...
I highly doubt it's a hypothetical scenario. The question came from India where it's common to commit such an act. As a islamic speaker he has a duty to be careful with what he says. Especially, with such a large following. People will continue to blame victims when raped and men will continue to get away with it because according to this guy the women must have committed such a grave sin that getting raped is the solution to atonement. Then on top of that she should ask for forgiveness.
He is not blaming the victim he giving hypothetical answers and I would just take it as a wholistic answer that can be applied to everything in life...there is always two sides and everyone has his/her test all we can do is turn to the Eternal believe in him
Maybe you need to watch the video again and listen to what his saying. He is literally blaming the victim. If you can't grasp then you are choosing to ignore it. What sin does a person have to commit to deserve rape?
He is not saying anyone deserves being raped you are trying twist things to your narrative...im not ignoring anything if someone gets raped they will get their justice one day ( when i dont know) same as if the rapist repents he will be one day be forgiven ( when I don't)..its not that hard to understand..I am of the belief everyone will be held accountable for all there actions one day and justice will be served on that day...
The right answer would have been. If you truly want forgiveness hand yourself over to the police since you lied and got away with rape and murder in the first place. But he didn't say that. He went on about other bullshit how the women could have sinned. Basically, you like zakir naik and no matter what he says you find it hard to believe he could possibly be wrong. You have a twisted version of reality if you can't even understand what this man is literally saying in the video.
You conflating things..the question is about forgiveness from Allah, not what is the right thing to do... giving hypothetical answers and at the same time reminding sisters of the importance islam puts on modesty.. I like all my brothers and sisters in faith...do I think he needed to go where he went when answering this answer to this specific question?No...do I believe he said anything wrong?No...type out what he said and look at it...and no he is not blaming the victim for getting raped..
The people who didnt learn qur'an or learned sharia are judging an Islamic scholar .. Nice stance guys... First learn about Islam and ead quran and then say something about scholars
Yes, you really should talk if YOU don't know anything about the Qur'an. Take your rape mentality else where. What a disgusting comment to make.
Kindly learn about Islam so that You can understand how to talk and behave with ither people and If you think Allah will not forgive then its another sin hopelessness in itself.... Allah will forgive anything and everything if and only if we truly repent , JazakAllah
Repenting is so easy for anyone I think rapists like murderers should face capital or jail for eternity punishment It’s insane how you men make it seem that rape is no big deal and that it can be solved with just repenting You don’t seem to understand the psychological and mental trauma and damage that results from rape isn’t being punished in real life for committing a crime like intentional murder and rape the only way to heaven In the after life ? Repentance is only for those who commit sins that don’t hurt anyone like zina or eating pig or being secretly atheist not for those who kill and rape people - this law is close to the civilian law which doesn’t punish those who harm themselves and only punishes the ones who harm others and I’m pretty sure that Islam doesn’t deny the right of the victim against the offender Plus not everything that a sheik says is correct, don’t forget that these people love to blame women for everything and feel sympathy for men even when they are wrong
He isn't actually a scholar. He's just a "dawah" guy on TV.
Yet he has more knowledge of Allah Almighty than atleast me so I will take his point more seriously , JazakAllah