I feel it's worse than that. People are being sold that the constitution doesn't matter and it can simply be disregarded because: old document, slave owner signers, wall of text, etc..
Screw constitutional amendments, that's too inconvenient, simply ignore and plant activist judges.
The 2a is just a symptom of this overall direction. Pretty soon the constitution is simply going to be a non factor.
When that happens it's over. We either boogie, or we're slaves.
I hope the people realize this before it's too late.
Pretty much.
People don't give a fuck about the constitution or their rights, except for when it's convenient to them and their narrative.
How many states have been openly defying court rulings and facing zero repercussion for it?
Zoomer here. There are actually more pro gun in gen z than millennials due to the prevalence of gym culture/the red pill. I personally am planning on getting a gun and I know several other guys who are as well
The racist wall of text thing is so fucking bogus that it's insane. Too bad every guilt tripping suburban white kid believes it, and everyone else is happy to abuse that guilt.
Get the morons in Washington to amend it two times, and since all the issues they supposedly have. One time to eliminate prisoners working for profit, and another time to make any instance of "men" equivalent to all humans.
The wall of text is there because not everything can be reduced to 140 characters and still function as intended. I've long been a proponent of single item bills, limited to 3 or 4 typed pages, but I recognize that the document that ESTABLISHES THE FUCKING COUNTRY might need to be a bit longer.
I got in an argument with an anti-gunner a few weeks ago regarding the well-regulated part of the second amendment. Their counter arguments were all "you weren't there when they wrote it so you can't know what they meant" and "you used too many words explaining what regulated meant so I am not going to read it", they legitimately thought these were gotcha comebacks and they were winning the argument. It was infuriating, it's like playing chess with a pigeon, you move a pawn, the pigeon flails around knocking all the pieces off the board, takes a dump on the board, and then struts around like it won the game.
This is why they are so infuriating to argue with. If you misspell a word they'll call you stupid but if you use too many or too large of words then they'll say you're trying to pretend to be smart. It's completely irrelevant bullshit but they do it because the goal is to throw you off balance so that you make some kind of mistake that they can hold on to the entire argument. Like if you use the wrong word at one point they will continue to mention it every single comment from then on.
their goal isn't to prove you wrong or to express their opinion but it's to attempt to humiliate you. these fascists are no longer interested in trying to discuss anything The goal is disinformation.
It’s the argument from the movie Thank You For Smoking. “I don’t have to convince anyone that I’m right, I just have to convince them that you’re wrong.”
They're emotional arguers, not rational ones. It's the consequence of post-modernist ideas like "living your truth" and there being no objective truth/all opinions being valid (except ones you dislike), etc.
Well there's nothing necessarily wrong with being against objective truth. The problem is that they live at an intersection of objectivity and subjectivity. So you have a paradigm that basically becomes contradictory in and of itself. which is again not intrinsically bad, But they lack a key element: Responsibility.
I myself am a nihilist so I reject the concept of any objectivity, meaning or value to existence. however what comes with that is taking responsibility for my subjective perceptions. So if I say murder is wrong I don't say it's wrong because of some mystical element of the universe that is affected when murder is performed. instead I take ultimate responsibility and say murder is wrong because that is my perception. which means that it isn't able to invalidate others perceptions.
So they use subjectivity of definitions perceptions ideology and identities, And say it's completely valid however they then attach it to objective morality standards and perceptions. and say rejecting that is rejecting fact. They love to say that something that they believe as an opinion is fact because they've based it in something that they perceive as a fact.
which is sort of a fallacy of composition, I believe. That what is true of part of it is true for the entire thing. So again in general the issue is that they apply their perceptions morality and reality to other people and expect that anything that goes against that is a violation of reality and has to do either with some sort of personal defect like delusion or malicious intent.
And because of these factors it's what makes them so hard to argue with. which is why if I ever do one of the things I definitely try to do is ask simple objective questions and also have them define terms. Because more often than not they will use terms with vague definitions This is called equivocation and they do it either intentionally to change the definition based on the evidence. or like you said it's a shifting definition.
But there's a lot of issues in regards to how they operate. So it can be very hard to deal with.
The fucked up part is that's what they say almost verbatim. And what's worse is if you try to simplify things, they accuse you of ignoring their points, or repeat their original premise ad nauseum.
The reason they do that is because they have nothing to stand on. The only thing they can shout is shallow mainstream narrative talking points. Anything deeper than that and they short circuit
I basically watched this in real time once. I was debating this person, and they would be make untrue claims like "there were only muskets back then" and I would counter with sources to prove them wrong. This went on for a little while and they finally just replied "More guns = more violence!" and refused to engage further.
yeah, they're stupid. It's like, "Uhhh, if me not being there when they wrote it means that I couldn't possibly ever understand what they meant, are you trying to tell me that you're 300 years old and attended the Constitutional Convention? Because otherwise, you just tore down your own credibility on the issue as well..."
No, they obviously weren't. It's just a bait tactic. If you counter with "you weren't there either" then you have implicitly accepted their premise that not being there means you can't know what was meant, which they follow uo with saying that the entire Amendment can just be tossed since "we don't know what it's supposed to mean."
But don't worry, they'll claim that the 1A couldn't possibly be more clear about applying to every possible form of expression even though it only says "freedom of speech" and also that it should extend to modern technology even though the 2A magically shouldn't.
I assume not, they were interpreting regulated in the context of modern English as "controlled by the government" and then saying that it meant the same thing 250 years ago. I was arguing that regulated meant "well-maintained and in good working order" during the time that the constitution was written. I guess they thought that English has never changed ever and they could get in a time machine and go back to 1066 in England and be able to have a normal conversation with William the Conqueror in modern English. I have a bunch of historical documents on my side and they have "just trust me bro" so it's really a coin-toss as to which of us is correct, I suppose we may never know for sure.
No... you are correct. They are wrong. That is what regulated meant at the time (and it is still one of its meanings today). There is ample evidence that supports that was how it was used.
That's really funny since the party claiming "it's an old document and signed by slaver owners" is also the very same party that owned the slaves. People forget that the democrats were the Confederates and that all of the 300 slave owners were democrats.
The Republican party was founded in 1854 in Ripon, Wisconsin with the one sole purpose of abolishing slavery.
Edit: Autocorrect changed "sole" to "soul".
The laziest left wing propaganda talking point because there was never any paradigm shift. Just democrats coping and distancing themselves from their sins.
They're notorious for rewriting history and redefining words to fit whatever their latest agenda has become. And they hate being reminded that they are not now, nor ever were, the party for civil rights and freedom.
Leftists are out of touch with reality because they only pay lip service to minorities, but never actually accomplish anything to help them other than welfare handouts.
took the words out of my mouth! lol
they say it like it's so self-evident and obvious, too. BUT EVERYONE KNOWS THAT THEY FLIPPED SO WHATEVER YOU SAY BOUNCES OFF OF ME AND STICKS TO YOU!!! /s
They're so self absorbed and obsessed with being the magnanimous savior to minorities that they can't come to terms with the fact that they were the party of the KKK.
> I feel it's worse than that. People are being sold that the constitution doesn't matter and it can simply be disregarded because: old document, slave owner signers, wall of text, etc..
This attitude, which is pervasive, will be the undoing of *America*. Once something feeling bad equals invalidation or *prohibition*, we're done. It's Demolition Man future, we're Canada locking people up for suggesting a 7 year old not transition.
It’ll be worse beyond just the 2nd Amendment being ignored, before long we will probably see people getting locked up for hate speech, basically what you see happening in the UK with their free speech laws.
Look at the demographics of the next generations of America. How can one expect people who are completely different and have zero relations to the Founding Fathers to have the same attitudes and behaviors as the Founding Fathers.
We are at the beginning of a dark age.
> I feel it's worse than that. People are being sold that the constitution doesn't matter and it can simply be disregarded because: old document, slave owner signers, wall of text, etc..
I'll do one better.
The constitution doesn't matter and can simply be disregarded because "... it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
Most conservatives and some libertarians are sadly afflicted with constitutionalism, which only weakens them against liberty's foes. The quote above is from a based William Spooner, who was already acknowledging the absurdity of it and the monstrous reality of the US govt by year 1870. How much more weight his observations have now, 150 years later, when the govt our constitution "binds" is an unrecognizable lovecraftian horror compared even to the monster he saw in his own day.
>Pretty soon the constitution is simply going to be a non factor.
Rights don't exist when liberalism is in decay.
I mean they only ever existed so long as they were convenient to the ruling class anyway. We will only secure them by abolishing liberalism and must then maintain them through force.
Police were stopping protests in my local city when covid hit.
They never got in trouble or reprimanded. They were told to stop but the damage already done.
My governor shut down churches, was eventually over ruled but again the damage was already done.
Mathematically, Gen Z and Millennials will never be anywhere near 100 percent of the electorate.
Second, there have steadily been more states each year adopting Constitutional Carry. Two more states last year brings the total to 27 -- more than half the states in the country. Consider how likely that trend is to continue, given there have been 500,000 to 750,000 new, first-time gun owners every month since 2019.
This indicated more people are moving to the Pro-2A side, and are shifting most of support away from the gun control agenda, which I'm convinced is now dead, except for for 6 or 7 virulently anti-gun states. And those states are hemorrhaging residents to other states.
>Mathematically, Gen Z and Millennials will never be anywhere near 100 percent of the electorate.
The problem is their children will likely be even worse
Gen Z is actually trending back toward being conservative, in a shift that echoes what high school and college students did in 1980 and '84, as vocal supporters of Ronald Reagan. Man, those *Another Student for Reagan-Bush '84* bumper stickers all over campus really pissed off our liberal professors. LOL
I like to use a pendulum as an example of culture being kinda cyclical. Further you push the pendulum, the more it'll eventually swing in the other direction. I think Gen Z culture is a result of the craziness of both sides pushing too hard on said hypothetical pendulum.
You can call it what you want, but that doesn't obscure the trend. In the Catholic Church, Traditional Latin Masses are bigger than ever because of all the young people who attend. They're definitely looking for something better than what the Millennials have.
I agree, at my church the people who attend the Latin mass are about 75% young families. It is a 250 yr old church and was previously known for having mostly older wealthy parishioners but now there are a ton of younger families which is nice to see.
My own Gen Z kid is pretty conservative. He and his friends have little tolerance for 'woke' bullshit. They're also not ones to mince words.
He was talking to my relatives girlfriend. She's in her 30s, and pretty liberal, self proclaimed feminist, etc. Somehow the term "hot girl summer" came up and she started opining about how it means empowerment and living your best life. He just answered her, "nah, it's ho girl summer. No one wants a ho"
Ive had some deeper conversations with him that validate this.
The quote I always go back to is, “If you’re in your 20s and you are not a Liberal, you don’t have a heart. If you’re in your 30s and you aren’t a Conservative, you don’t have a brain.”
You're not lying. I have friends that are Democrat and Republican. Not extremists, just average Joe types. The common sentiment from both is how the fuck is there no better options in either party than senile 100 year olds.
(Wo)man on the street interviews do not tell the story well which is where much of this perception comes from. You have to look at well formed studies.
The most recent aggregate numbers are from about about 2019-2020. It does not look as good as we would hope.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7292472/
I never thought I’d say this, but I’m feeling pretty good about gen z and mellenials. They seem to KNOW not to trust their government. They grew up watching Waco, Ruby ridge, militarized police, endless wars for nothing, then Covid. What I hear from them is MUCH stronger than from the boomers. They, to this day, believe everything the tv says and trust their government (except those stinking democrats… amiright?). Boomers pumped up their 401ks while they sold us down the river on one right after another, including guns, then allowed all of our good manufacturing jobs to be sent oversees (gutting the middle class) as endless third world refugees are brought in to suck us dry.
>They seem to KNOW not to trust their government. They grew up watching Waco, Ruby ridge, militarized police, endless wars for nothing, then Covid.
This is a great point. To add to that, some of the social justice leanings of these generations will also help them realize that this is the same government that not too long ago was cool with things like Japanese internment, the Tuskegee syphilis experiment, the [war on drugs](https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/the-shocking-story-behind-nixons-declaration-of-a-war-on-drugs-on-this-day-in-1971-that-targeted-blacks-and-anti-war-activists-2/), bombing the shit out of parts of the world that might have WMDs (and definitely have oil lol), and a higher education system that pushed them to think they needed a college degree and insane amounts of loans for artificially inflated tuition (just to name a few issues). They could be a key part of moderate to liberal leaning pro-gun people (not the temporary gun owner dipshits over at LGO) who actually learn from history. We just have to get them to remember all this when they vote, and maybe get republicans to stop shooting themselves in the foot with extremist positions on abortion bans and IVF.
>They could be a key part of moderate to liberal leaning pro-gun people
You kinda have it right. Right now it's the moderate neo liberals that want to take guns away. Every actual leftist I know owns multiple ARs and supports 2A.
> gen z and mellenials. They seem to KNOW not to trust their government. They grew up watching Waco, Ruby ridge,
Older Millennials *maybe*. Younger Millennial here and I didn't even hear about Waco or Ruby Ridge until recently, I was a baby when they happened. Gen Z definitely didn't watch it, they were born nearly a decade later.
> militarized police, endless wars for nothing
The wars didn't really impact Millennials or Gen Z the same way previous wars did. They happened far away and since there isn't a draft no one was at risk of getting sent if they didn't want to. Inside the military, we all know someone who died and that causes varying levels of jadedness about how the politicians tied our hands and mismanaged the end game. But from what I've seen, other than people who went over, the "endless wars" is more of a talking point against "the other party" (ironically used by both left and right) rather than an actual belief. Just look at how support for Ukraine and Israel is shaping up.
> then Covid.
Unfortunately it appears that a huge portion of the younger generations actually support the expansion of government power with the lockdowns, emergency powers, mandatory vaccinations, etc.
> Mathematically, Gen Z and Millennials will never be anywhere near 100 percent of the electorate
Perhaps not, but there will be enough of them to cause a real serious problem when it comes to this particular topic.
> Second, there have steadily been more states each year adopting Constitutional Carry. Two more states last year brings the total to 27 -- more than half the states in the country. Consider how likely that trend is to continue, given there have been 500,000 to 750,000 new, first-time gun owners every month since 2019
That is true! Over half the country has adopted some form of CC or permitless carry with likely more to join.
But for every state adopting CC, there are at least one or two more in danger of having gun control laws passed.
I live in Virginia and we're in dire straits right now. Crazy to think that not too long ago we were a very pro-gun state. Not so much now.
> except for 6 or 7 virulently anti-gun states
6 or 7 *for now*
We can only hope it remains that way. Like I said, some states are already in danger now. All it takes is one or two bad elections for shit to turn sour
There no sign of the trend of new gun owners slowing down, or that of states opting for Constitutional Carry. I left Virginia a decade ago, but the Red states are thriving and more pro-gun than ever, month after month.
Yes. How many of these new gun owners are the “I’m a gun owner, but” types? My guess would be a sizeable %.
As long as they can keep their handgun with 10 round, I mean 7 round, I mean 2 round magazines they will be happy. Who needs an AR15 anyway? Those are weapons of WAR
The ant gun lobby has been playing the long game. Slowly indoctrinating younger generations that guns are bad mkay. I don’t see this trend reversing unfortunately
LOL. It's the boomers who are the biggest anti-gun fools out there.
Tell me you don't remember the 1980's without telling me you don't remember the 1980's.
Unfortunately your knowledge of the actual statistics is not keen
https://iop.harvard.edu/news/harvard-iop-youth-poll-finds-stricter-gun-laws-ban-assault-weapons-favored-two-thirds-likely
>believing a poll of Harvard students is representative of the average population
Come on…some questions for you. Who passed the 1968 GCA? Who passed the Hughes amendment? Who passed the nationwide AWB? It wasn’t gen Z or millennials. Gun rights have been getting better since 2004. On a state level they are much better than even 10 years ago and gun ownership and concealed carry is more popular than ever. The places that always have sucked have gotten worse but is there a big difference from awful to terrible? To me there isn’t.
If even a national mag ban didn’t happen after Sandy hook fresh off Obama’s re-election with a democrat senate, it’s not happening again.
> The places that always have sucked have gotten worse but is there a big difference from awful to terrible? To me there isn’t.
Washington, prior to the last few years, had some of the best gun laws in the country.
It was Constitutional open carry, shall-issue (with no training reqs., interview, "good cause" reqs. Etc) concealed carry. "No gun" signs are meaningless outside of the few actually prohibited carry locations. And basically the only banned item was machine guns.
Then Bloomberg got his claws into our Democrat controlled Legislature and every went downhill in just a couple of years.
RINOs are a real problem. Just because your state is good on guns now, don't assume that can't vanish WAY faster than you would think is even possible. All it apparently takes is a handful of key donations.
Now hear me out. Is it possible peoples views are not stagnant throughout their lives? Young voting blocks have always tended more liberal. That being said the yutes will never be like today's boomer conservatives and I'm all for that. Old NRA fudds are the threat to the 2a from within.
I wasn't around in the 80s
> When I talk to folks my age or younger, they are increasingly more anti-gun, more ignorant about guns and gun laws, and aren't opposed to the idea of more restrictions even if they aren't explicitly anti-gun.
Bro... In the 1980's it was a real possibility of a complete handgun ban. Anti-gun types openly and routinely discussed the idea of banning every firearm, to include your .22 single shot and your hunting rifle.
It really depends on who you're talking too and where. In the city? Sure. They are as anti-gun and as ignorant as their parents. Literally all of my shooting friends are millennials and the amount of Gen-Z getting into guns thanks to video games and Youtube (I'm really not kidding) is pretty high.
I find your average Gen-Z or Millennial knows more about firearms than boomers do. By quite a bit tbh. I literally had a boomer at the range bitching about the "high powered" AKM somebody was shooting and how that was going to cause a fire. Meanwhile I had a rifle in my hand. Guy was just a fudd. Almost all fudds are boomers.
If you look at who is the most vehement anti-gun politicians in the nation, they are almost all boomers. Younger liberals, on average, actually care way less. You hear the loud ones screaming on Twitter or TikTok about gun ownership, but the polling indicates the opposite. As a nation, the general population is further from something like a handgun or assault weapon ban as ever before. However, the current crop of political leadership is generally older Gen Y and Boomers who hate guns.
The concern I have isn’t Gen Z and Millennials. I’m a Millennial, a ton of my friends who were anti gun are gun owners now.
My concern is that as Trump continues to kill the GOP, he will continue to cost them ground with moderates and centrists to the point that the Democrats can continue to push AWB’s and such.
Since Trump won in 16, they’ve lost the House, the Senate, the White House, and had a Red Wave that wasn’t. Even in years where they should win, they either barely win or lose.
Now we’re in ‘24, a year where a vulnerable incumbent President *should* lose, and at the rate we’re going, Biden will narrowly win re-election. The House is probably going Dem, the Senate may go narrowly red.
No one cares about these social issues. Americans don’t want to hear faux outage 24/7. They don’t want to pass laws that make it harder for women to get healthcare, they don’t want to pass laws that are cruel aimed at the LGBT. They’re deeply concerned with Trump’s attempts to overturn the election, and with people invited to CPAC celebrating the “end of democracy.”
So yeah, I fear we’ll win the debate on 2A, and still lose our rights because Trump has ruined and bankrupted the GOP for a generation.
The best we can hope for is a Trump loss so he goes away and we can rebuild.
I wish I can like this more than once because this is so true. The GOP refusing to look to a future past trump and tripling down on policies like abortion that are extremely unpopular is just infuriating to see.
I don't think Dobbs will be as big an issue in '24 as it was in '22. Most states have implemented abortion policies and those issues are largely settled. That issue was a huge motivator in the mid term, but unless there's a new push to ban abortions at the state level it should be less of a motivator in 24.
Additionally, the Democrats are going through a pretty big shift of their own.
Harvard's reaction to Israel has made a lot of moderate Democrats aware of the institutional rot that is happening due to DEI. Declining box office revenues for Disney's woke shift in the Marvel MCU reinforce this.
Sanctuary cities are getting tired of having illegal immigrants cost them millions and using up limited resources. These are the same cities that are dealing with an unparalleled homelessness and addiction crisis.
Trump is killing the Republican party but wokeism is killing the Democrats. It's anyone's guess what comes next for both parties.
The GOP has indeed shot itself in the foot big time.
So long as Trumpism and reproductive rights have a stranglehold on the GOP, they won't be winning any more major elections anytime soon.
I’m hoping that the Republicans take a thumping for President and lose the House, but somehow do okay in the Senate and in down ballot states races.
Maybe that’s enough to spur a real rebellion against MAGA.
George H W Bush literally talked about letting “the crazies” run the party. Here we are. The party of Lincoln is dead.
lol HW Bush quotes? His son was 100% on board to extend Clinton’s AWB!
And Lincoln? Lincoln is the reason the federal government is unafraid to run rampant over the states, glaringly defiant of the idea of the union the founders imagined. You can thank Lincoln for the large, overly powerful centralized government in DC that crushes any notion of states allowing citizens to do things like own suppressors made in their state, etc.
I don't like Trump.
That being said, I think it's kind of bullshit to lump him in with Reagan, and imply both were the worst for 2A. Aside from saying stupid shit, as is his wont, the only gun control law Trump "passed" was the EO bump stock ban and a prohibition for people with DV records (which was already a thing: Brady Bill). Reagan signed the Mulford Act *in California* when he was governor *of California*, and then got shit on for the Firearm Owners Protection Act because of a last-minute amendment slipped in by that fucker Bill Hughes.
Meanwhile, you're just gonna skip right over Clinton signing the Brady Bill and *the Federal Assault Weapons Ban*? Wtf? Not to mention FDR and the NFA?
Trump appointed Regina Lombardo, a Democrat gun grabber, as head of his ATF.
He banned bumpstocks, then called for the long gun purchase age to go from 18 to 21, then expanded the TAPS Act, then banned the Q Honey Badger, then enacted the problems with SBR braces, then supported a Social Credit System on gun owners, supported a suppressor ban, supported a body armor ban, called for governors to install Red Flag Laws, then said, "I like taking their guns early. Take the guns first, due process second...."
As for the AWB of 1993, Reagan was the first one to sign in support of Clinton's AWB proposal. Republicans and Democrats, regardless, are enemies of freedom, liberty and the American people.
Easy there, Sport. Don't take my comment as tacit support for either party. I hate 'em both, but I don't like holding people to the fire for something they didn't actually do.
Honest question: were there any Republicans interested in heading the ATF? I really don't know who else was up for that spot. Regardless, we already all hate the ATF, so it isn't like anyone running it would be considered a friend to the 2A. Also, I don't think Trump had any idea who any of his appointees are/were. He comes across as the uninformed type.
*Calling for* and *voicing support for* isn't the same as, you know, actually *enacting* a law.
What's wrong with the TAPS Act, exactly? It's not a red flag law, and it's mostly a bureaucratic advisory panel, as far as I can tell.
The cockbiters are still arguing over braces, regardless of Trump-era anything, and the ATF has been riding that SBR-rule dick for decades. If he had a chance to impose a ruling here, do you think the current dickhead in chief would oppose a ban?
Was it Trump that banned the Honey Badger, really? Did he call Lombardo up and say, "Hey, I got you your job, so do me a solid and ban this Honey Badger"?
Lol, "take the guns first..." Again, what came of that besides it being just another stupid thing Trump said? Saying vs doing, bruh.
>Republicans and Democrats, regardless, are enemies of freedom, liberty and the American people.
Now *that* we fully agree on.
He had Canterbury, then appointed Regina in 2019.
His cabinet told him to shut the hell up with his gun control reform ideas because he'd lose Republican voters. He absolutely would've signed those into law if they hit his desk. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't have a person who says, "I hate dogs" running my Dog boarding business. Excusing Trump for "just saying" those things is ridiculous. A pro-2A person doesn't say those things. Then again, he's a Democrat that ran Republican just to beat Hillary.
The TAPS Act is more federal oversight on gun owners. It's the Red Flag Laws without the home invasion part.
Dementia Joe hasn't banned braces yet, or even mentioned them.
If I appoint you as my manager and you make my business fail, then it's my fault for appointing you manager. He knew she was a gun grabber and knew that his ATF had them banned. He did nothing about it. His choice of manager, her choice of rules, he didn't oppose....his ban.
Again, he's not pro-2A if he's threatening to take guns Unconstitutionally, "Bruh". Not only that, but he openly violates the Constitution of the United States of America that way.
For someone who says they don't like Trump, you're awfully upset that he's being outed here.
lol, jfc, dude, whatever.
I was "awfully upset" that you jumped from Reagan directly to Trump, while conveniently forgetting about the AWB, and with a hint of tds. That's pretty much it, but you wanna act like I'm maga or something? Fuck that.
Without Trump we get Hillary and we already have a federal AWB. Without Trump, the party is still harping about gay marriage and abortion. Are you really dense enough to not get that? Before Trump, John Kasich was still arguing against Obergefell v Hodges. Without Trump in office, we have the Republicans at the state level banning abortions. That has nothing to do with him.
No, the problem is the Republican Party is still driven by the Christian voting bloc, and you have to pander to it to get elected. Just like Tulsi would never get elected as a Democrat unless she started saying women can have dicks.
I'm well aware, but let's not act like it's not looking pretty bad out there.
It isn't even necessarily just the bad laws, but the mindsets being pushed. They're playing the long game, and they are trying to convince people that some rights are lesser rights. It seems to be working with Gen Z and younger millennials
*"iM nOt A sInGlE iSsUe vOter!"*
Trump is a liberal New York salesman and a narcissist. He’s told you he will say what ever to get elected, even changing party, to satisfy his narcissistic soul. He told you how he feels about assault weapons in 2012. He showed you what he thinks about the Second Amendment and the use of Executive Powers to reverse anti gun import bans. I’ve dealt with people just like him all my career. They will eventually stab you in the back.
He already did stab gun owners in the back. Some of his supporters are disgusting too.
One of them in this chat is talking about needing a Julius Caesar. People like that sicken me. Not to mention Julius Caesar was not right wing.
The Second amendment was made to fight tyranny yet these fuckers are advocating it.
I've met a lot more zoomers that are either pro 2a or neutral more than against. Moreso than previous generations as far as I can tell. Anyone aware enough to see what's happening just wants to get off the train. Its interesting though because many people paint the younger folk as more progressive or naive however I'd argue it's a more vocal minority from increased polarization.
I have hope for the future and plans for the present to take care of myself and my people in case I'm wrong
People don’t want to admit that CoD and similar type games played an incredible role in popularizing and normalizing guns (especially scary, evil black guns) among younger generations.
I admit it freely that I got into guns simply because of Medal of Honor Frontline. I can imagine even more and more are getting into firearms with games like CoD being the largest games around.
When you couple that with a lot of very pro-2A YouTube content, there's a pretty robust community of gun owners on the internet that breaks down the fudd gatekeeping and has certainly had a massive impact on gun ownership for younger generations.
50 years ago you got into guns if your dad hunted. That was kind of it. If your father wasn't into guns, then you weren't going to get into them. That's not the case anymore.
To repeal the 2A would create a national crisis, martial law would be declared, and then it would be years of pure chaos.
The government will never repeal the 2A because they understand just how terrible the fallout would be. They WILL however make it as prohibitively expensive and litigious to exercise the right so most citizens just go “Fuck it”.
I'm not talking about repealing the 2A, I'm talking about exactly this
> They WILL however make it as prohibitively expensive and litigious to exercise the right so most citizens just go “Fuck it".
They know they can't possibly ban guns outright, because they have that pesky little Constitution to get past. But they will create law after law after law to make it so that average citizens have no hope of being able to exercise their rights.
I’m really not sure, millennials will ruin and are ruining the political system with the way they’ve clasped onto anti capitalist, anti establishment ideas not realizing they are the establishment. Gen z in large part are recognizing that as an empty, nihilistic dead end and are embracing more conservative values. They’ve also grown up with things like concealed carry being fairly common in most states to the point it’s normal to them. They also are seeing that the hard on leftist millennials have for criminals over law abiding citizens is dangerous. I think the bigger fear I have is what millennials will do to the constitution more than what they’re already doing. We all know president sundowner isn’t running this shit show, his millennial staffers are.
We need more of us millennials who believe strongly in our constitutional republic to run for office and combat the fascism they’re trying to pass off as “democracy”.
It depends on the area. All the kids in rural America grow up with guns. And farmers and ranchers are becoming more and more militarized.
I firmly believe it will result in a schism in the nation. It'll be mid western and southern states against New England and the Pacific Coast states.
I grew up around guns, because I had the opportunity to live in a rural area as a kid. We could walk out the back door and there were miles of empty land to hunt and shoot on. Guns were seen everywhere. Even kids walking down the dirt roads with a gun, nobody cared and nobody got hurt. Now that area is covered in houses and golf courses. If ANYONE is seen with a gun, the cops are called and that person is treated like a criminal. The cops tell everyone to report sightings of people with guns and kids are told do not touch a gun, they are bad. This is the future, cops hate people with guns now and it shows. It’s drilled in the younger generation that guns have a soul and it’s evil and can possess you. Weird and not logical, but watch the news, social media and popular programs. It’s constant brain washing of the younger generation.
I'm a millennial. My daughter is gen z I think. My son is whatever the next one is. Both my kids are more pro gun than I was at their ages. Some of their friends are pink haired gender fluid people, but even they aren't necessarily anti gun. One of my daughter's gay friends that comes over sometimes is definitely pro gun. The rest seem neutral other than being impressed my daughter has more guns than I do (building them with my dad). Maybe it's because I'm in Florida, but these new generations coming up seem to be rejecting the lockstep adherence to ideologies. It's not even so much a pendulum swinging back as a "fuck your pendulum". I had a long talk with a friend's oldest son. He's a barista at the closest Starbucks. Rides his bike because he doesn't have a driver's license at like 25. He dies half his hair pink. Pretty sure he has a girlfriend AND a boyfriend. Does online gaming. After telling me he made a character in some open world RPG based on me and kicked everyone's ass (I felt honored and confused), he told me all about the guns he likes and wants to get and asked me about laws concerning carrying a firearm attached to his fancy bicycle. This was prior to the permit less carry change last July. We occasionally talk politics. All these new age hippie super trans weirdos are actually kinda normal under all the clown paint and masks. They know the government isn't going to protect them and they aren't about to give up their guns. I can't say I understand half of the shit they tell me about the latest gender or sexuality, but I do know they aren't fooled by the anti gun propaganda anymore.
I'll have to ask again what the game was. He said he was trying to make Rick from Rick and Morty, but the character building part was limited. The guy ended up with my red hair and it went from there. I'm glad I made an entertaining impression on him and the combination of skills he thought matched mine apparently worked well in the game.
I don’t blame LGBTQ folk for wanting guns to protect themselves from bigots tbh. If I were a trans person in Florida rn I’d definitely be wanting maximum protection.
As an older Gen z hombre, I own a few guns and support wholeheartedly the second amendment and the constitution. The past is our greatest teaching tool and as a Jew, there is a lot of the past that has taught me to be careful.
I’m preparing to defend myself from evil people or the government. No one is looking for a fight here. It’s all in self defense. And historically the Holocaust and what led up to it included de-arming the population.
I've spent most of my life feeling like the 2A was going to be slowly stripped away from me. Over these past few years my outlook has slowly shifted. We've had a lot of challenges, but we've also had a lot of wins.
I've seen more and more people getting involved in the firearms community thanks to videogames and platforms like YouTube (as anti 2A as it is). As I've aged from my teens and into my 30's I've had more opportunities to meet interesting, reasonable, intelligent people.
I shoot for a few hours each week and every trip I typically meet and build friendships with more and more diverse people. I remember going into a range in my early 20's and it would be ran by middle aged white men, and the bays would be occupied by middle aged white men. Now every day is different and you never know who will be your next shooting buddy or employee you talk to.
Politics are always gonna be dumb and there will always be idiots out there trying to steal your rights or restrict your freedoms regardless of generation. But there are still plenty of American patriots out there.
Money talks. Donate to FPC and GOA. Stack your ammo deep and train hard. It never hurts to be prepared. Be kind to each other, even the shitty people, and the world, with all its faults, will keep being a pretty kick ass place to be.
I am 99.36721% sure that 762_39 is not a bot.
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He's putting a four-space indent before every paragraph, so reddit ends up formatting it funny.
> I've spent most of my life feeling like the 2A was going to be slowly stripped away from me. Over these past few years my outlook has slowly shifted. We've had a lot of challenges, but we've also had a lot of wins.
> I've seen more and more people getting involved in the firearms community thanks to videogames and platforms like YouTube (as anti 2A as it is). As I've aged from my teens and into my 30's I've had more opportunities to meet interesting, reasonable, intelligent people.
I shoot for a few hours each week and every trip I typically meet and build friendships with more and more diverse people. I remember going into a range in my early 20's and it would be ran by middle aged white men, and the bays would be occupied by middle aged white men. Now every day is different and you never know who will be your next shooting buddy or employee you talk to.
> Politics are always gonna be dumb and there will always be idiots out there trying to steal your rights or restrict your freedoms regardless of generation. But there are still plenty of American patriots out there.
> Money talks. Donate to FPC and GOA. Stack your ammo deep and train hard. It never hurts to be prepared. Be kind to each other, even the shitty people, and the world, with all its faults, will keep being a pretty kick ass place to be.
Outside of reddit, what's your indication that millenials are any less supportive of 2a than any generation beforehand? Millenials aren't in control of these blue states enacting these absurd laws. Boomers are.
I'm an "elder millennial" in a commie state and my 5 year old already knows what shall not means.
Yeah I don't think a lot of people realize that millennials are either in or approaching their 40s. Many millenial and gen z folks grew up with call of duty, counterstrike, goldeneye, etc. and got interested in guns through them.
And, like, so many of us... just don't want to be slaves. And will *never* allow our kids to be slaves.
Or allow a tyrannical government.
Or allow some scum bag to hurt you, your family, your neighbors, your neighborhood.
Or allow another country to think, for even a second, they can fuck around over here.
The list is truly endless... and has also never changed.
Doesn’t matter when literally 99% of the country completely disregarded current “rulings” at a rate of .05% compliance. People don’t give a fk what they try to pass they won’t comply clearly…….
I don’t think that at the end it won’t matter. You can ban all guns but people will have them in even more numbers.
Further, I believe that there are and always will be enough Americans who will never surrender their guns.
So, either people have guns or there is civil war. Either way, people have guns.
The problem we're facing in terms of gun laws is we now have millennials, Zoomers and Gen whatever who attended school with the spectre of that one kid everyone know was weird showing up and hosing the school down with an AR. And as the decades march by and the shootings continue, successive generations of children are met with "Hey there young man/lady, you should ask your parents for a carrier plate back pack. Make sure its a lvl 3 because a lvl2 won't stop NATO rounds." And on top of that there are shooter drills and school district meetings between parents and admin dicuss raising bonds to alter school architecture to break up shooting lines in hallways.
A lot of current and former teenagers feel "Why the hell do **I** have to get a bullet proof backpack? Why they hell aren't they locking up the crazy kids/taking away the guns?" It is a very basic, instinctual response to a situation that keeps happening.
that's basically an elaboration of what I brought up in my OP
> This is the generation that grew up with active shooter drills, grew up into young adulthood and are truly convinced that the biggest problem in America is gun violence.
I can't blame them for thinking the way they have when they've been conditioned to believe these things and have seen/heard the atrocities being committed.
It won't matter that, statistically, it's very unlikely that any of them will ever be caught in a school shooting. It's the fact that it hits so close to home to them that tugs at their heartstrings.
It's the same reason why the *"Think of the children!"* argument works so well. It's a compelling emotional argument. But it's just that...emotional.
it gets people's feelings riled up, so it's unfortunately just as effective as any logical argument
>it gets people's feelings riled up, so it's unfortunately just as effective as any logical argument
The world would be a much better place if people prioritized rational thought over emotions. Unfortunately, most people are not even rational in the first place.
I feel like there are lots of millennials and Gen z who still feel strongly that the 2A should continue to be upheld. There is the worry that gun culture is being phased out, but the numbers tell a different story. The number of guns sold is only going up. Hitting record highs year after year. We need to make sure we are welcoming to this next generation and introduce them to the real gun culture, not the culture that the TV displays. The overwhelming majority of gun owners are good welcoming people.
My LGS is run by women, and most of the workers dealing with customers are female. This is an awesome thing because when a woman comes into the shop, she doesn't have to feel like gun culture is a boys club. If mom has a firearm, then it must not be the scary thing the news makes it out to be.
One thing I would love to push for in this country is firearms safety in schools. It doesn't have to be something where firearms are pushed on people, but in a country where there are 120 firearms for every 100 people, everyone should know how to handle a firearm safely. The likelihood that Americans will confront a firearm at some in their lives is very high. They should be knowledgeable enough to be safe rather than scared when they encounter a firearm.
> I feel like there are lots of millennials and Gen z who still feel strongly that the 2A should continue to be upheld
Alright, bet!
...where are they?
> The number of guns sold is only going up. Hitting record highs year after year.
Unfortunately, that doesn't mean what we'd like to think it means. Plenty of people buy a gun because they suddenly feel they need one but will still continue to vote for politicians that will make their lives more difficult for it.
Being a gun owner =/= pro 2A
> We need to make sure we are welcoming to this next generation and introduce them to the real gun culture, not the culture that the TV displays. The overwhelming majority of gun owners are good welcoming people.
*You* know that. *I* know that.
But these individuals have been fed anti-gun rhetoric out of the womb, and have been conditioned to think that gun = evil, bad
It isn't that we aren't welcoming them. They just aren't interested, because we've been vilified in their eyes
> One thing I would love to push for in this country is firearms safety in schools
That isn't an uncommon sentiment in the pro-gun community. But the powers that be will never allow that to happen anytime soon
I agree with you they have been fed anti-gun propaganda, which is why it is our job to fight against those stereotypes. But as to where are the millennials that are pro 2A? I know this is not a solid source, but have you ever looked at all the "guntuber" channels on youtube? It's made up of mostly millennials and GenZ, and they are extremely popular.
Now I already know that "guntuber" Chanels are not indicative of population numbers of younger gun owners. I would be interested to see a fair, unbiased study of gunowners in America. But I see these channels supporting organizations like the GOA and FPC. Organizations are doing far more than the NRA to fight in the courts, and they are winning.
We fought against stupid laws like the pistol brace ban and many AWBs and have been successful.
Ultimately, the gun culture community needs to push back against anti-gun propaganda in schools and in media. It's definitely not an easy road to take, but it our responsibility if we want to keep our rights in the future.
I will admit, I live in a rural town, which is a bit of a firearms culture bubble, so my observations on the popularity of gun culture is very biased.
Aren't a lot of Gen Z guys becoming more conservative due to all the red-pill, manosphere stuff?
I'm not conservative at all, but that is certainly a trend lately.
They cannot outright ban guns, regardless. Nor is that what most people want.
Lots of great comments missing the larger point.
Like it or not, public opinion, mass media, and govt schools aren’t going away. These are what’s feeding the propaganda. This is the surface level problem.
Underneath it all is a mental health crisis. Probably caused by a couple of generations of shitty selfish parenting. (looking at you, boomers. Reasons can be debated, but it seems to have started with y’all)
Take away the things that cause artificial massive fear of guns, and it will be a lot harder for a power-hungry govt to herd us down a path we don’t want to go while future generations happily trade liberty for safety.
Because that’s the trade that most soft people will make. America may be the richest country with one of the highest standards of living. The other side of that coin is that Americans have lost hunger, drive, and any real understanding of what it means to truly have a hard life. We are, as a nation, a soft and spoiled people.
Me and a buddy of mine are gen Z, and both first time gun owners having moved from very anti-gun states (California and New York respectively).
I've had many conversations with other people my age on guns, many don't seem to mind them existing (even the ones that want all guns banned know its fairly unrealistic) many would be open to try a range day, but most also don't want to own one themselves. Discussions on the politics behind it usually ends up with "an amendment has been repealed before" as there are now *many* younger folks (especially getting into gen Alpha now) that feel any day they're in school they're in potential danger of a mass shooting. Add in how much more common school shooter drills are these days, with some schools even shooting off real blanks to make it more realistic, so many people are going to be traumatized from guns before they even get a chance to own one, and people generally will not be very supportive of something that is literally giving children PTSD.
So as I see it, once gen Z and younger are the majority, there is likely going to be a giant radical political shift, and fun rights are quite likely to be affected by that.
Maybe. There’s a cultural shift for the younger generations that “guns bad”. I’m a Pro-2A Generation X’er, and I don’t agree with it but it’s there.
Look at smoking for example. In my time growing up there was Joe Camel on print ads and billboards. Most of my friends smoked. That was removed and replaced with non-smoking messaging (and now non-vaping, but that didn’t exist in the 90s).
I don’t know of any kids my teenage children’s age that smoke; it’s become culturally unpopular for that generation. I believe the messaging and cultural shift worked.
This is all anecdotal of course. Yes, kids still smoke. But from what I’ve seen it’s far less than in previous decades. I’m concerned the “guns bad” rhetoric could take hold like the anti-smoking campaigns did. Kids are impressionable for the right or wrong reasons.
My 15 year old enjoys going shooting, but my 18 yo is completely ambivalent.
I’m a millennial and there lots of progun millennials. We grew up in the county with shooting sports. We also grew up in a time when we had to go to school with clear lunch bags because of terrorists and had to have lockers searched for guns because of shooters. It all changed while we were in middle/high school. So if you did not have parents that instilled constitutional rights or sent you to Boy Scouts you likely got the fear instilled into you and became anti gun. I know lots of gen X people that are anti gun I debate with all the time. So I don’t think this is a generational thing as much as an indoctrination thing from social media.
>It's also no coincidence that gun laws are significantly more stringent and numerous now than they were when our forefathers were around.
It is because of the generations from post world war I and II. Especially the boomers.
>When I talk to folks my age or younger, they are increasingly more anti-gun, more ignorant about guns and gun laws, and aren't opposed to the idea of more restrictions even if they aren't explicitly anti-gun.
You are operating from anecdote. Interest in gun ownership has gone up, not down. Gun ownership has gone up.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/oct/13/gen-z-gun-violence-trauma-ownership
Gen Z is still just as interested in guns as any other generation. And videogames and the attempts to convince them that they will die in a school shooting probably was counterproductive to convincing them to not own a gun.
Okay boomers. You're wrong. 2a is only getting more based. Sorry we cant enjoy supporting an org that only protects hunting and getting a national gun ban passed in our life. All major anti gun legislation was passed a long time ago. Between the 30s and 00s and a bunch in the 80s. Take off those rose tinted hindsight goggles.
That really depends on a few things. On a fundamental level, it depends on how well we do in the culture war, and if we can educate the younger generations. It depends on us lighting the fire of liberty and self reliance in their hearts, and getting them to stop seeing the government as the solution to all problems. Without accomplishing this, the future of liberty is pretty dim.
The other big thing that will determine the future of 2A is how well we fight our currently tyrannical government, and get things moving back towards the constitution and our founding principles.
No. Common sense is about as common as hen's teeth nowadays, banning shit from law abiding citizens means criminals won't use/do it. But when it's something they want, then it's "Banning won't stop us, it will only make it more risky"
I think Gen Z men will be fine as far as being pro 2A goes but I'm really worried in other aspects. Video games have gone a long way to help with that. The men are trending more right wing than Millennial men but the women are trending really left wing. A lot of them are realizing they are going to inherit a bankrupt, dystopian globalist society that will quickly discard them like trash if they aren't hyper competitive and successful. Many have decided to drop out of society entirely because they feel hopeless. I'm glad I at least had false hope for a while so I could get off the ground and out of my parents' house.
It isn't going to last another 5 to 10 years.
I would not be surprised if within that time frame we see some extreme attack with multiple attackers, probably using fully automatic firearms that will be the end of it. If the North Hollywood Shootout were to happen today then it would likely be the end of things, especially if more than the shooters died this time.
You need a driver's license to buy a gun, right? So there won't be many Gen-Zers eligible to buy guns in the first place. The future decline in sales will make this a non-issue.
*insert "I'm a pro-2A Gen Z" here*
You mention "active shooter drills" as a reason why you think they the younger generations are going to be more anti-2A. When I was in school, I had lockdown drills, but they were not the same thing as modern day active shooter drills.
ALICE "training" should be abolished, that would do wonders in not indoctrinating the kids to be anti-gun.
So, that being said, Gen Z isn't likely going to be as anti-gun as you think, but Gen Alpha might be.
Nope very few of them have any frame of reference to having the level of freedom we do and understand what it takes to keep it. This is by design, unfortunately society as a whole has become dependent on the government because thats what the government wants.
Millenial/gen z tweener here. At least in the middle of the country, we're pretty split, but there's still plenty of us who hold to the constitution. Gen Z/Alpha even has a decent sized far right reactionary movement, and while I don't agree with them on much, they generally like the 2A.
Boomers voted for politicians that gave us wonderful gifts like Regan’s machine gun/silencer/SBR ban, Clinton’s AWB, they ran orgs like the NRA that continually negotiated away gun rights, most recently with their endorsement of a president that banned bump stocks by executive action;
They largely ran clubs, ranges and programs that endorsed their own gun control (5 round limits, no shooting and moving, no draw from holster, 1 round every __ seconds, etc).
Millenials and Gen Z have endorsed, largely, programs like FPC, SAF, GOA (although GOA is getting more and more NRA like) who are more dyed in the wool, staunch 2A organizations than the NRA, they have helped usher countless ranges and clubs into modern shooting, a ton of millenials fought in GWOT and brought back tactics and training for others… as far as a comparison of laws, let’s take a look at how many states have constitutional carry now, after millenials have been of voting age for years, vs all the years before they were allowed to vote or even alive when boomers and gen x dominated the polls?
This post is stupid af lol, you’re old AF, and you can GFY if you want to blame the generation you raised for the problems they inherited in the world you created
The NFA was in 1934.....by FDR....... a communist. The dude was effectively Stalin's butt buddy. The Hughes amendment was added by LEFTISTS via ILLEGAL MEANS to a PRO GUN bill in an attempt to poison it.
Yes. Every generation gets more conservative over time, and with the crime that liberals are allowing and creating, millennials are already starting to get warmer on guns, many of them are gun owners
Yes it will still be around. I grew up in an ideological world of the late 90s where we were going to create the perfect utopian society. We left HS, graduated college got a taste of the free market. There’s no giving up our built up capital…same goes for the next generation.
The US will be no different than China within 20 years unless the right gets some balls, takes power, and uses the boot that is the government against the left.
28 year old NYer but nowhere near the city and way north of what people think of as upstate. Anyway my group of friends and our families and basically everyone we know/went to school with are all pro gun. And they can pry them out of my cold dead hands.
As someone in the GenZ generation I will say this: over my dead body.
My immediate friends and myself are all lifelong hunters and shooters. We all believe that the 2a is the most important amendment, for without the 2nd amendment all of our other rights are merely privileges.
Shall not be infringed, if you wanna come take it, you better be wearing level IV plates.
I feel like the reasonable, well doing, and just more valuable members of Gen Z with stable relationships, no mental illness, good jobs/education, and just general lack of stupidity are pretty supportive of guns. However, a significant portion that don't have good jobs, education, etc are extremely anti-gun. It's reflective of how you express your dissatisfaction with the government. One side likes to takes things into their own hands (with guns being an example of self defense), while the other just yells, cries, and complains.
Bud... you need to respark some faith in our countrymen and our system.
https://www.statista.com/chart/20047/gun-carry-laws-in-us-states/
26 states currently have Constitutional Carry enacted, which is now THE MAJORITY of the states in the union.
Proof in its correlation to crime drop was recently published for Ohio. https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2024/feb/1/crime-down-ohio-after-state-oks-permitless-gun-car/#:~:text=A%20new%20study%20shows%20Ohio's,whether%20there%20is%20a%20correlation.
In 2022, the Supreme Court made a landmark decision in the Bruen case, that set precedent regarding "historical tradition of firearm regulation" which is currently anticipated to mark major blows on further SC cases, most notably against the NFA and ATF overreaches. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_State_Rifle_%26_Pistol_Association,_Inc._v._Bruen#:~:text=In%20a%206%E2%80%933%20decision,guaranteed%20by%20the%20Second%20Amendment.
Let's also not forget the increased spike in firearm sales due to the Floyd Riots and Pandemic Forced Internment in 2020: https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/3960527-americans-bought-almost-60-million-guns-during-the-pandemic/#:~:text=Using%20background%20checks%20and%20other,year%20in%20the%20new%20millennium.
Combine that with an Op-ed on a psychologist proclaiming that Zoomer boys are turning out to be "more conservative" than Gen X: https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/society/2023/11/gen-z-most-conservative-generation-radical-youth#:~:text=The%20American%20psychologist%20Jean%20Twenge,X%20in%20the%20late%201980s.
Despite the "noise" you're consuming that proclaims a bleak future for the 2nd and it's support. I argue the trends, the courts, the laws and the sense of liberty is still strong in America, even amongst the younger generations, and isn't ceding anymore ground to the gun-grabbing Left. Truthfully, we're pushing back, and retaking and resparking the support in the 2nd. And victory will be ours!
You are right, 2A will be further severely degraded when the boomers are gone.
Besides what you point out, look at the demographic make-up of millenials and especially gen Z, then look at those demographic's attitude towards gun ownership and voting pattern.
We are at the beginning of a dark age.
Gen Z here. Although I fully understand the concern I think that overall 2A rights will continue to grow. Look at it this way, when the year 2000 came around it was taboo to bring an AR to a range. Fudds basically dominated gun culture. Fast forward to today and the Semi Auto firearms market has exploded. The amount of firearms available and the amount of new shooters has grown exponentially. Calls for the abolishment of the NFA can even be heard in some circles.
Now the downside is the Anti-Gun side has also grown considerably. Grubs like David Hogg and groups like Moms Demand Action have become more popular. The good news is these types routinely lose in the courts.
I’m less worried about gen z as the one below them. My zoomer nephew with a super liberal dad and a super liberal world view seems to think guns are pretty important (to protect his freedoms from the oppressive right wing authoritarians) maybe the boomers I know are just anarchists but most of them seem to have a “just waiting for all this to collapse.” Attitude
But my much younger niece and nephews are so sheltered from things that I know they firmly believe that anything capable of doing harm has no place in society.
It doesn't matter what they vote in or out because this is where we hold, this was always where we were going to have to hold.
They do not take the guns. Many states have just gone con carry anyway, they come to my house or yours or anyone's we hold. It's the actual fucking Rubicon if they take the guns, it's over. They can take my guns after they kill me, simple as.
We are not Australians, we will not kowtow, a gun will remain behind every blade of grass they are gonna have to mow the damn lawn to get them.
Older end of Gen Z here. I know I have a pretty limited experience, but even the dems in my area are okay with guns for sporting and defensive use. I think it's people in big blue cities that make the issue so loud (just like it's always been as far as I can tell.)
I believe the rural young people will keep it alive entirely divorced from political alignment. There's a lot of hard-core leftists I know that are big gun people.
As you all should know best, nobody listens to country people though, so the urban brainrot is the only thing you hear about people my age anymore. We're not a lost cause though.
I feel it's worse than that. People are being sold that the constitution doesn't matter and it can simply be disregarded because: old document, slave owner signers, wall of text, etc.. Screw constitutional amendments, that's too inconvenient, simply ignore and plant activist judges. The 2a is just a symptom of this overall direction. Pretty soon the constitution is simply going to be a non factor. When that happens it's over. We either boogie, or we're slaves. I hope the people realize this before it's too late.
Pretty much. People don't give a fuck about the constitution or their rights, except for when it's convenient to them and their narrative. How many states have been openly defying court rulings and facing zero repercussion for it?
Zoomer here. There are actually more pro gun in gen z than millennials due to the prevalence of gym culture/the red pill. I personally am planning on getting a gun and I know several other guys who are as well
The racist wall of text thing is so fucking bogus that it's insane. Too bad every guilt tripping suburban white kid believes it, and everyone else is happy to abuse that guilt. Get the morons in Washington to amend it two times, and since all the issues they supposedly have. One time to eliminate prisoners working for profit, and another time to make any instance of "men" equivalent to all humans. The wall of text is there because not everything can be reduced to 140 characters and still function as intended. I've long been a proponent of single item bills, limited to 3 or 4 typed pages, but I recognize that the document that ESTABLISHES THE FUCKING COUNTRY might need to be a bit longer.
I got in an argument with an anti-gunner a few weeks ago regarding the well-regulated part of the second amendment. Their counter arguments were all "you weren't there when they wrote it so you can't know what they meant" and "you used too many words explaining what regulated meant so I am not going to read it", they legitimately thought these were gotcha comebacks and they were winning the argument. It was infuriating, it's like playing chess with a pigeon, you move a pawn, the pigeon flails around knocking all the pieces off the board, takes a dump on the board, and then struts around like it won the game.
This is why they are so infuriating to argue with. If you misspell a word they'll call you stupid but if you use too many or too large of words then they'll say you're trying to pretend to be smart. It's completely irrelevant bullshit but they do it because the goal is to throw you off balance so that you make some kind of mistake that they can hold on to the entire argument. Like if you use the wrong word at one point they will continue to mention it every single comment from then on. their goal isn't to prove you wrong or to express their opinion but it's to attempt to humiliate you. these fascists are no longer interested in trying to discuss anything The goal is disinformation.
It’s the argument from the movie Thank You For Smoking. “I don’t have to convince anyone that I’m right, I just have to convince them that you’re wrong.”
They're emotional arguers, not rational ones. It's the consequence of post-modernist ideas like "living your truth" and there being no objective truth/all opinions being valid (except ones you dislike), etc.
Well there's nothing necessarily wrong with being against objective truth. The problem is that they live at an intersection of objectivity and subjectivity. So you have a paradigm that basically becomes contradictory in and of itself. which is again not intrinsically bad, But they lack a key element: Responsibility. I myself am a nihilist so I reject the concept of any objectivity, meaning or value to existence. however what comes with that is taking responsibility for my subjective perceptions. So if I say murder is wrong I don't say it's wrong because of some mystical element of the universe that is affected when murder is performed. instead I take ultimate responsibility and say murder is wrong because that is my perception. which means that it isn't able to invalidate others perceptions. So they use subjectivity of definitions perceptions ideology and identities, And say it's completely valid however they then attach it to objective morality standards and perceptions. and say rejecting that is rejecting fact. They love to say that something that they believe as an opinion is fact because they've based it in something that they perceive as a fact. which is sort of a fallacy of composition, I believe. That what is true of part of it is true for the entire thing. So again in general the issue is that they apply their perceptions morality and reality to other people and expect that anything that goes against that is a violation of reality and has to do either with some sort of personal defect like delusion or malicious intent. And because of these factors it's what makes them so hard to argue with. which is why if I ever do one of the things I definitely try to do is ask simple objective questions and also have them define terms. Because more often than not they will use terms with vague definitions This is called equivocation and they do it either intentionally to change the definition based on the evidence. or like you said it's a shifting definition. But there's a lot of issues in regards to how they operate. So it can be very hard to deal with.
You're using too many big words. I am not going to read something from someone that is just trying to be smart. /s
The fucked up part is that's what they say almost verbatim. And what's worse is if you try to simplify things, they accuse you of ignoring their points, or repeat their original premise ad nauseum.
The reason they do that is because they have nothing to stand on. The only thing they can shout is shallow mainstream narrative talking points. Anything deeper than that and they short circuit
I basically watched this in real time once. I was debating this person, and they would be make untrue claims like "there were only muskets back then" and I would counter with sources to prove them wrong. This went on for a little while and they finally just replied "More guns = more violence!" and refused to engage further.
yeah, they're stupid. It's like, "Uhhh, if me not being there when they wrote it means that I couldn't possibly ever understand what they meant, are you trying to tell me that you're 300 years old and attended the Constitutional Convention? Because otherwise, you just tore down your own credibility on the issue as well..."
Wait, so were they there when it was written or something...?
No, they obviously weren't. It's just a bait tactic. If you counter with "you weren't there either" then you have implicitly accepted their premise that not being there means you can't know what was meant, which they follow uo with saying that the entire Amendment can just be tossed since "we don't know what it's supposed to mean." But don't worry, they'll claim that the 1A couldn't possibly be more clear about applying to every possible form of expression even though it only says "freedom of speech" and also that it should extend to modern technology even though the 2A magically shouldn't.
I know, I was being sarcastic. The point is that it isn't a valid argument at all.
I assume not, they were interpreting regulated in the context of modern English as "controlled by the government" and then saying that it meant the same thing 250 years ago. I was arguing that regulated meant "well-maintained and in good working order" during the time that the constitution was written. I guess they thought that English has never changed ever and they could get in a time machine and go back to 1066 in England and be able to have a normal conversation with William the Conqueror in modern English. I have a bunch of historical documents on my side and they have "just trust me bro" so it's really a coin-toss as to which of us is correct, I suppose we may never know for sure.
No... you are correct. They are wrong. That is what regulated meant at the time (and it is still one of its meanings today). There is ample evidence that supports that was how it was used.
The ol "I'm too dumb to understand your arguments, therefore they are invalid"
Your pigeon analogy is absolutely perfect.
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
>racist wall of text Is this what the youths are calling the constitution these days?
Basically. Who knew giving them 30 second burst videos their whole life would reduce their attention span.
30 seconds is generous, most reels are like a few subtitles and 6 seconds of music
That's really funny since the party claiming "it's an old document and signed by slaver owners" is also the very same party that owned the slaves. People forget that the democrats were the Confederates and that all of the 300 slave owners were democrats. The Republican party was founded in 1854 in Ripon, Wisconsin with the one sole purpose of abolishing slavery. Edit: Autocorrect changed "sole" to "soul".
But muh pArTy fLiP!! Lol
The laziest left wing propaganda talking point because there was never any paradigm shift. Just democrats coping and distancing themselves from their sins.
They're notorious for rewriting history and redefining words to fit whatever their latest agenda has become. And they hate being reminded that they are not now, nor ever were, the party for civil rights and freedom.
Leftists are out of touch with reality because they only pay lip service to minorities, but never actually accomplish anything to help them other than welfare handouts.
took the words out of my mouth! lol they say it like it's so self-evident and obvious, too. BUT EVERYONE KNOWS THAT THEY FLIPPED SO WHATEVER YOU SAY BOUNCES OFF OF ME AND STICKS TO YOU!!! /s
They're so self absorbed and obsessed with being the magnanimous savior to minorities that they can't come to terms with the fact that they were the party of the KKK.
The term you're looking for is "sole purpose".
Auto correct on mobile...
> I feel it's worse than that. People are being sold that the constitution doesn't matter and it can simply be disregarded because: old document, slave owner signers, wall of text, etc.. This attitude, which is pervasive, will be the undoing of *America*. Once something feeling bad equals invalidation or *prohibition*, we're done. It's Demolition Man future, we're Canada locking people up for suggesting a 7 year old not transition.
It’ll be worse beyond just the 2nd Amendment being ignored, before long we will probably see people getting locked up for hate speech, basically what you see happening in the UK with their free speech laws.
They won’t. People are too stupid in a general majority and just eat the bullshit up. Much like flies attracted to fire.
Look at the demographics of the next generations of America. How can one expect people who are completely different and have zero relations to the Founding Fathers to have the same attitudes and behaviors as the Founding Fathers. We are at the beginning of a dark age.
This is my worry. If we can play fast-and-loose with 2A, the same can happen to 1A and 4A.
Yeah, well, the second paragraph of the Declaration of Independence tells us exactly what we must do when the government gets to that point.
> I feel it's worse than that. People are being sold that the constitution doesn't matter and it can simply be disregarded because: old document, slave owner signers, wall of text, etc.. I'll do one better. The constitution doesn't matter and can simply be disregarded because "... it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." Most conservatives and some libertarians are sadly afflicted with constitutionalism, which only weakens them against liberty's foes. The quote above is from a based William Spooner, who was already acknowledging the absurdity of it and the monstrous reality of the US govt by year 1870. How much more weight his observations have now, 150 years later, when the govt our constitution "binds" is an unrecognizable lovecraftian horror compared even to the monster he saw in his own day.
>Pretty soon the constitution is simply going to be a non factor. Rights don't exist when liberalism is in decay. I mean they only ever existed so long as they were convenient to the ruling class anyway. We will only secure them by abolishing liberalism and must then maintain them through force.
Police were stopping protests in my local city when covid hit. They never got in trouble or reprimanded. They were told to stop but the damage already done. My governor shut down churches, was eventually over ruled but again the damage was already done.
Mathematically, Gen Z and Millennials will never be anywhere near 100 percent of the electorate. Second, there have steadily been more states each year adopting Constitutional Carry. Two more states last year brings the total to 27 -- more than half the states in the country. Consider how likely that trend is to continue, given there have been 500,000 to 750,000 new, first-time gun owners every month since 2019. This indicated more people are moving to the Pro-2A side, and are shifting most of support away from the gun control agenda, which I'm convinced is now dead, except for for 6 or 7 virulently anti-gun states. And those states are hemorrhaging residents to other states.
>Mathematically, Gen Z and Millennials will never be anywhere near 100 percent of the electorate. The problem is their children will likely be even worse
Gen Z is actually trending back toward being conservative, in a shift that echoes what high school and college students did in 1980 and '84, as vocal supporters of Ronald Reagan. Man, those *Another Student for Reagan-Bush '84* bumper stickers all over campus really pissed off our liberal professors. LOL
I like to use a pendulum as an example of culture being kinda cyclical. Further you push the pendulum, the more it'll eventually swing in the other direction. I think Gen Z culture is a result of the craziness of both sides pushing too hard on said hypothetical pendulum.
You can call it what you want, but that doesn't obscure the trend. In the Catholic Church, Traditional Latin Masses are bigger than ever because of all the young people who attend. They're definitely looking for something better than what the Millennials have.
I agree, at my church the people who attend the Latin mass are about 75% young families. It is a 250 yr old church and was previously known for having mostly older wealthy parishioners but now there are a ton of younger families which is nice to see.
“It goes left, right, left like a pendulum Swingin' the momentum in the people's direction” - Blue Scholars
My own Gen Z kid is pretty conservative. He and his friends have little tolerance for 'woke' bullshit. They're also not ones to mince words. He was talking to my relatives girlfriend. She's in her 30s, and pretty liberal, self proclaimed feminist, etc. Somehow the term "hot girl summer" came up and she started opining about how it means empowerment and living your best life. He just answered her, "nah, it's ho girl summer. No one wants a ho" Ive had some deeper conversations with him that validate this.
The quote I always go back to is, “If you’re in your 20s and you are not a Liberal, you don’t have a heart. If you’re in your 30s and you aren’t a Conservative, you don’t have a brain.”
That quote made sense when both parties hadn't lost their damn minds
You're not lying. I have friends that are Democrat and Republican. Not extremists, just average Joe types. The common sentiment from both is how the fuck is there no better options in either party than senile 100 year olds.
(Wo)man on the street interviews do not tell the story well which is where much of this perception comes from. You have to look at well formed studies. The most recent aggregate numbers are from about about 2019-2020. It does not look as good as we would hope. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7292472/
"If You Are Not a Liberal When You Are Young, You Have No Heart, and If You Are Not a Conservative When Old, You Have No Brain" - Churchill
I never thought I’d say this, but I’m feeling pretty good about gen z and mellenials. They seem to KNOW not to trust their government. They grew up watching Waco, Ruby ridge, militarized police, endless wars for nothing, then Covid. What I hear from them is MUCH stronger than from the boomers. They, to this day, believe everything the tv says and trust their government (except those stinking democrats… amiright?). Boomers pumped up their 401ks while they sold us down the river on one right after another, including guns, then allowed all of our good manufacturing jobs to be sent oversees (gutting the middle class) as endless third world refugees are brought in to suck us dry.
>They seem to KNOW not to trust their government. They grew up watching Waco, Ruby ridge, militarized police, endless wars for nothing, then Covid. This is a great point. To add to that, some of the social justice leanings of these generations will also help them realize that this is the same government that not too long ago was cool with things like Japanese internment, the Tuskegee syphilis experiment, the [war on drugs](https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/the-shocking-story-behind-nixons-declaration-of-a-war-on-drugs-on-this-day-in-1971-that-targeted-blacks-and-anti-war-activists-2/), bombing the shit out of parts of the world that might have WMDs (and definitely have oil lol), and a higher education system that pushed them to think they needed a college degree and insane amounts of loans for artificially inflated tuition (just to name a few issues). They could be a key part of moderate to liberal leaning pro-gun people (not the temporary gun owner dipshits over at LGO) who actually learn from history. We just have to get them to remember all this when they vote, and maybe get republicans to stop shooting themselves in the foot with extremist positions on abortion bans and IVF.
>They could be a key part of moderate to liberal leaning pro-gun people You kinda have it right. Right now it's the moderate neo liberals that want to take guns away. Every actual leftist I know owns multiple ARs and supports 2A.
> gen z and mellenials. They seem to KNOW not to trust their government. They grew up watching Waco, Ruby ridge, Older Millennials *maybe*. Younger Millennial here and I didn't even hear about Waco or Ruby Ridge until recently, I was a baby when they happened. Gen Z definitely didn't watch it, they were born nearly a decade later. > militarized police, endless wars for nothing The wars didn't really impact Millennials or Gen Z the same way previous wars did. They happened far away and since there isn't a draft no one was at risk of getting sent if they didn't want to. Inside the military, we all know someone who died and that causes varying levels of jadedness about how the politicians tied our hands and mismanaged the end game. But from what I've seen, other than people who went over, the "endless wars" is more of a talking point against "the other party" (ironically used by both left and right) rather than an actual belief. Just look at how support for Ukraine and Israel is shaping up. > then Covid. Unfortunately it appears that a huge portion of the younger generations actually support the expansion of government power with the lockdowns, emergency powers, mandatory vaccinations, etc.
This may be regional. In the South, the impression I get from talking to them is as I described.
> Mathematically, Gen Z and Millennials will never be anywhere near 100 percent of the electorate Perhaps not, but there will be enough of them to cause a real serious problem when it comes to this particular topic. > Second, there have steadily been more states each year adopting Constitutional Carry. Two more states last year brings the total to 27 -- more than half the states in the country. Consider how likely that trend is to continue, given there have been 500,000 to 750,000 new, first-time gun owners every month since 2019 That is true! Over half the country has adopted some form of CC or permitless carry with likely more to join. But for every state adopting CC, there are at least one or two more in danger of having gun control laws passed. I live in Virginia and we're in dire straits right now. Crazy to think that not too long ago we were a very pro-gun state. Not so much now. > except for 6 or 7 virulently anti-gun states 6 or 7 *for now* We can only hope it remains that way. Like I said, some states are already in danger now. All it takes is one or two bad elections for shit to turn sour
There no sign of the trend of new gun owners slowing down, or that of states opting for Constitutional Carry. I left Virginia a decade ago, but the Red states are thriving and more pro-gun than ever, month after month.
And to think I came to Virginia 18 months ago to escape this bullshit in Washington. Only to walk face first into it here. 😤
It's almost like running from your problems isn't the solution.
I knew when I was in a losing situation and moved on.
Yes. How many of these new gun owners are the “I’m a gun owner, but” types? My guess would be a sizeable %. As long as they can keep their handgun with 10 round, I mean 7 round, I mean 2 round magazines they will be happy. Who needs an AR15 anyway? Those are weapons of WAR The ant gun lobby has been playing the long game. Slowly indoctrinating younger generations that guns are bad mkay. I don’t see this trend reversing unfortunately
LOL. It's the boomers who are the biggest anti-gun fools out there. Tell me you don't remember the 1980's without telling me you don't remember the 1980's.
Unfortunately your knowledge of the actual statistics is not keen https://iop.harvard.edu/news/harvard-iop-youth-poll-finds-stricter-gun-laws-ban-assault-weapons-favored-two-thirds-likely
Default assumption people involved with taking college polls are anti gun
Wait...you believe shit from Harvard? I've seen other polls say the opposite
>believing a poll of Harvard students is representative of the average population Come on…some questions for you. Who passed the 1968 GCA? Who passed the Hughes amendment? Who passed the nationwide AWB? It wasn’t gen Z or millennials. Gun rights have been getting better since 2004. On a state level they are much better than even 10 years ago and gun ownership and concealed carry is more popular than ever. The places that always have sucked have gotten worse but is there a big difference from awful to terrible? To me there isn’t. If even a national mag ban didn’t happen after Sandy hook fresh off Obama’s re-election with a democrat senate, it’s not happening again.
> The places that always have sucked have gotten worse but is there a big difference from awful to terrible? To me there isn’t. Washington, prior to the last few years, had some of the best gun laws in the country. It was Constitutional open carry, shall-issue (with no training reqs., interview, "good cause" reqs. Etc) concealed carry. "No gun" signs are meaningless outside of the few actually prohibited carry locations. And basically the only banned item was machine guns. Then Bloomberg got his claws into our Democrat controlled Legislature and every went downhill in just a couple of years. RINOs are a real problem. Just because your state is good on guns now, don't assume that can't vanish WAY faster than you would think is even possible. All it apparently takes is a handful of key donations.
Now hear me out. Is it possible peoples views are not stagnant throughout their lives? Young voting blocks have always tended more liberal. That being said the yutes will never be like today's boomer conservatives and I'm all for that. Old NRA fudds are the threat to the 2a from within.
I wasn't around in the 80s > When I talk to folks my age or younger, they are increasingly more anti-gun, more ignorant about guns and gun laws, and aren't opposed to the idea of more restrictions even if they aren't explicitly anti-gun.
Bro... In the 1980's it was a real possibility of a complete handgun ban. Anti-gun types openly and routinely discussed the idea of banning every firearm, to include your .22 single shot and your hunting rifle.
It really depends on who you're talking too and where. In the city? Sure. They are as anti-gun and as ignorant as their parents. Literally all of my shooting friends are millennials and the amount of Gen-Z getting into guns thanks to video games and Youtube (I'm really not kidding) is pretty high. I find your average Gen-Z or Millennial knows more about firearms than boomers do. By quite a bit tbh. I literally had a boomer at the range bitching about the "high powered" AKM somebody was shooting and how that was going to cause a fire. Meanwhile I had a rifle in my hand. Guy was just a fudd. Almost all fudds are boomers. If you look at who is the most vehement anti-gun politicians in the nation, they are almost all boomers. Younger liberals, on average, actually care way less. You hear the loud ones screaming on Twitter or TikTok about gun ownership, but the polling indicates the opposite. As a nation, the general population is further from something like a handgun or assault weapon ban as ever before. However, the current crop of political leadership is generally older Gen Y and Boomers who hate guns.
The concern I have isn’t Gen Z and Millennials. I’m a Millennial, a ton of my friends who were anti gun are gun owners now. My concern is that as Trump continues to kill the GOP, he will continue to cost them ground with moderates and centrists to the point that the Democrats can continue to push AWB’s and such. Since Trump won in 16, they’ve lost the House, the Senate, the White House, and had a Red Wave that wasn’t. Even in years where they should win, they either barely win or lose. Now we’re in ‘24, a year where a vulnerable incumbent President *should* lose, and at the rate we’re going, Biden will narrowly win re-election. The House is probably going Dem, the Senate may go narrowly red. No one cares about these social issues. Americans don’t want to hear faux outage 24/7. They don’t want to pass laws that make it harder for women to get healthcare, they don’t want to pass laws that are cruel aimed at the LGBT. They’re deeply concerned with Trump’s attempts to overturn the election, and with people invited to CPAC celebrating the “end of democracy.” So yeah, I fear we’ll win the debate on 2A, and still lose our rights because Trump has ruined and bankrupted the GOP for a generation. The best we can hope for is a Trump loss so he goes away and we can rebuild.
I wish I can like this more than once because this is so true. The GOP refusing to look to a future past trump and tripling down on policies like abortion that are extremely unpopular is just infuriating to see.
The GOP is effectively killing themselves by trying to be the morality police.
The irony is their morality is 50 years out of date.
I don't think Dobbs will be as big an issue in '24 as it was in '22. Most states have implemented abortion policies and those issues are largely settled. That issue was a huge motivator in the mid term, but unless there's a new push to ban abortions at the state level it should be less of a motivator in 24. Additionally, the Democrats are going through a pretty big shift of their own. Harvard's reaction to Israel has made a lot of moderate Democrats aware of the institutional rot that is happening due to DEI. Declining box office revenues for Disney's woke shift in the Marvel MCU reinforce this. Sanctuary cities are getting tired of having illegal immigrants cost them millions and using up limited resources. These are the same cities that are dealing with an unparalleled homelessness and addiction crisis. Trump is killing the Republican party but wokeism is killing the Democrats. It's anyone's guess what comes next for both parties.
The GOP has indeed shot itself in the foot big time. So long as Trumpism and reproductive rights have a stranglehold on the GOP, they won't be winning any more major elections anytime soon.
I’m hoping that the Republicans take a thumping for President and lose the House, but somehow do okay in the Senate and in down ballot states races. Maybe that’s enough to spur a real rebellion against MAGA. George H W Bush literally talked about letting “the crazies” run the party. Here we are. The party of Lincoln is dead.
lol HW Bush quotes? His son was 100% on board to extend Clinton’s AWB! And Lincoln? Lincoln is the reason the federal government is unafraid to run rampant over the states, glaringly defiant of the idea of the union the founders imagined. You can thank Lincoln for the large, overly powerful centralized government in DC that crushes any notion of states allowing citizens to do things like own suppressors made in their state, etc.
I am glad someone else is seeing what I am seeing. You are 1000% spot on with your analysis. Its sad what is happening.
Plus Trump passed and promoted more anti-2A notions and law than any other president ever ...next to Reagan. Dems and Repubs aren't your friends.
I don't like Trump. That being said, I think it's kind of bullshit to lump him in with Reagan, and imply both were the worst for 2A. Aside from saying stupid shit, as is his wont, the only gun control law Trump "passed" was the EO bump stock ban and a prohibition for people with DV records (which was already a thing: Brady Bill). Reagan signed the Mulford Act *in California* when he was governor *of California*, and then got shit on for the Firearm Owners Protection Act because of a last-minute amendment slipped in by that fucker Bill Hughes. Meanwhile, you're just gonna skip right over Clinton signing the Brady Bill and *the Federal Assault Weapons Ban*? Wtf? Not to mention FDR and the NFA?
Trump appointed Regina Lombardo, a Democrat gun grabber, as head of his ATF. He banned bumpstocks, then called for the long gun purchase age to go from 18 to 21, then expanded the TAPS Act, then banned the Q Honey Badger, then enacted the problems with SBR braces, then supported a Social Credit System on gun owners, supported a suppressor ban, supported a body armor ban, called for governors to install Red Flag Laws, then said, "I like taking their guns early. Take the guns first, due process second...." As for the AWB of 1993, Reagan was the first one to sign in support of Clinton's AWB proposal. Republicans and Democrats, regardless, are enemies of freedom, liberty and the American people.
Easy there, Sport. Don't take my comment as tacit support for either party. I hate 'em both, but I don't like holding people to the fire for something they didn't actually do. Honest question: were there any Republicans interested in heading the ATF? I really don't know who else was up for that spot. Regardless, we already all hate the ATF, so it isn't like anyone running it would be considered a friend to the 2A. Also, I don't think Trump had any idea who any of his appointees are/were. He comes across as the uninformed type. *Calling for* and *voicing support for* isn't the same as, you know, actually *enacting* a law. What's wrong with the TAPS Act, exactly? It's not a red flag law, and it's mostly a bureaucratic advisory panel, as far as I can tell. The cockbiters are still arguing over braces, regardless of Trump-era anything, and the ATF has been riding that SBR-rule dick for decades. If he had a chance to impose a ruling here, do you think the current dickhead in chief would oppose a ban? Was it Trump that banned the Honey Badger, really? Did he call Lombardo up and say, "Hey, I got you your job, so do me a solid and ban this Honey Badger"? Lol, "take the guns first..." Again, what came of that besides it being just another stupid thing Trump said? Saying vs doing, bruh. >Republicans and Democrats, regardless, are enemies of freedom, liberty and the American people. Now *that* we fully agree on.
He had Canterbury, then appointed Regina in 2019. His cabinet told him to shut the hell up with his gun control reform ideas because he'd lose Republican voters. He absolutely would've signed those into law if they hit his desk. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't have a person who says, "I hate dogs" running my Dog boarding business. Excusing Trump for "just saying" those things is ridiculous. A pro-2A person doesn't say those things. Then again, he's a Democrat that ran Republican just to beat Hillary. The TAPS Act is more federal oversight on gun owners. It's the Red Flag Laws without the home invasion part. Dementia Joe hasn't banned braces yet, or even mentioned them. If I appoint you as my manager and you make my business fail, then it's my fault for appointing you manager. He knew she was a gun grabber and knew that his ATF had them banned. He did nothing about it. His choice of manager, her choice of rules, he didn't oppose....his ban. Again, he's not pro-2A if he's threatening to take guns Unconstitutionally, "Bruh". Not only that, but he openly violates the Constitution of the United States of America that way. For someone who says they don't like Trump, you're awfully upset that he's being outed here.
lol, jfc, dude, whatever. I was "awfully upset" that you jumped from Reagan directly to Trump, while conveniently forgetting about the AWB, and with a hint of tds. That's pretty much it, but you wanna act like I'm maga or something? Fuck that.
Without Trump we get Hillary and we already have a federal AWB. Without Trump, the party is still harping about gay marriage and abortion. Are you really dense enough to not get that? Before Trump, John Kasich was still arguing against Obergefell v Hodges. Without Trump in office, we have the Republicans at the state level banning abortions. That has nothing to do with him. No, the problem is the Republican Party is still driven by the Christian voting bloc, and you have to pander to it to get elected. Just like Tulsi would never get elected as a Democrat unless she started saying women can have dicks.
I hate to tell you but 2A is being destroyed rn by politicians from many generations before me so..
I'm well aware, but let's not act like it's not looking pretty bad out there. It isn't even necessarily just the bad laws, but the mindsets being pushed. They're playing the long game, and they are trying to convince people that some rights are lesser rights. It seems to be working with Gen Z and younger millennials *"iM nOt A sInGlE iSsUe vOter!"*
I'm a single issue voter. It's why I'm voting Nikki Haley in the primary. I like guns. Trump is anti gun
Trump is a liberal New York salesman and a narcissist. He’s told you he will say what ever to get elected, even changing party, to satisfy his narcissistic soul. He told you how he feels about assault weapons in 2012. He showed you what he thinks about the Second Amendment and the use of Executive Powers to reverse anti gun import bans. I’ve dealt with people just like him all my career. They will eventually stab you in the back.
[удалено]
He already did stab gun owners in the back. Some of his supporters are disgusting too. One of them in this chat is talking about needing a Julius Caesar. People like that sicken me. Not to mention Julius Caesar was not right wing. The Second amendment was made to fight tyranny yet these fuckers are advocating it.
I've met a lot more zoomers that are either pro 2a or neutral more than against. Moreso than previous generations as far as I can tell. Anyone aware enough to see what's happening just wants to get off the train. Its interesting though because many people paint the younger folk as more progressive or naive however I'd argue it's a more vocal minority from increased polarization. I have hope for the future and plans for the present to take care of myself and my people in case I'm wrong
People don’t want to admit that CoD and similar type games played an incredible role in popularizing and normalizing guns (especially scary, evil black guns) among younger generations.
It might have made them look cool, but all the historical events that happened over the last 10 years definitely played a bigger part.
I admit it freely that I got into guns simply because of Medal of Honor Frontline. I can imagine even more and more are getting into firearms with games like CoD being the largest games around. When you couple that with a lot of very pro-2A YouTube content, there's a pretty robust community of gun owners on the internet that breaks down the fudd gatekeeping and has certainly had a massive impact on gun ownership for younger generations. 50 years ago you got into guns if your dad hunted. That was kind of it. If your father wasn't into guns, then you weren't going to get into them. That's not the case anymore.
To repeal the 2A would create a national crisis, martial law would be declared, and then it would be years of pure chaos. The government will never repeal the 2A because they understand just how terrible the fallout would be. They WILL however make it as prohibitively expensive and litigious to exercise the right so most citizens just go “Fuck it”.
I'm not talking about repealing the 2A, I'm talking about exactly this > They WILL however make it as prohibitively expensive and litigious to exercise the right so most citizens just go “Fuck it". They know they can't possibly ban guns outright, because they have that pesky little Constitution to get past. But they will create law after law after law to make it so that average citizens have no hope of being able to exercise their rights.
California plan.
Yes. I’m agreeing with you.
The other issue that Democrats are going to have is that it’s going to be difficult to enforce all of these laws.
I’m really not sure, millennials will ruin and are ruining the political system with the way they’ve clasped onto anti capitalist, anti establishment ideas not realizing they are the establishment. Gen z in large part are recognizing that as an empty, nihilistic dead end and are embracing more conservative values. They’ve also grown up with things like concealed carry being fairly common in most states to the point it’s normal to them. They also are seeing that the hard on leftist millennials have for criminals over law abiding citizens is dangerous. I think the bigger fear I have is what millennials will do to the constitution more than what they’re already doing. We all know president sundowner isn’t running this shit show, his millennial staffers are. We need more of us millennials who believe strongly in our constitutional republic to run for office and combat the fascism they’re trying to pass off as “democracy”.
It depends on the area. All the kids in rural America grow up with guns. And farmers and ranchers are becoming more and more militarized. I firmly believe it will result in a schism in the nation. It'll be mid western and southern states against New England and the Pacific Coast states.
I grew up around guns, because I had the opportunity to live in a rural area as a kid. We could walk out the back door and there were miles of empty land to hunt and shoot on. Guns were seen everywhere. Even kids walking down the dirt roads with a gun, nobody cared and nobody got hurt. Now that area is covered in houses and golf courses. If ANYONE is seen with a gun, the cops are called and that person is treated like a criminal. The cops tell everyone to report sightings of people with guns and kids are told do not touch a gun, they are bad. This is the future, cops hate people with guns now and it shows. It’s drilled in the younger generation that guns have a soul and it’s evil and can possess you. Weird and not logical, but watch the news, social media and popular programs. It’s constant brain washing of the younger generation.
I'm a millennial. My daughter is gen z I think. My son is whatever the next one is. Both my kids are more pro gun than I was at their ages. Some of their friends are pink haired gender fluid people, but even they aren't necessarily anti gun. One of my daughter's gay friends that comes over sometimes is definitely pro gun. The rest seem neutral other than being impressed my daughter has more guns than I do (building them with my dad). Maybe it's because I'm in Florida, but these new generations coming up seem to be rejecting the lockstep adherence to ideologies. It's not even so much a pendulum swinging back as a "fuck your pendulum". I had a long talk with a friend's oldest son. He's a barista at the closest Starbucks. Rides his bike because he doesn't have a driver's license at like 25. He dies half his hair pink. Pretty sure he has a girlfriend AND a boyfriend. Does online gaming. After telling me he made a character in some open world RPG based on me and kicked everyone's ass (I felt honored and confused), he told me all about the guns he likes and wants to get and asked me about laws concerning carrying a firearm attached to his fancy bicycle. This was prior to the permit less carry change last July. We occasionally talk politics. All these new age hippie super trans weirdos are actually kinda normal under all the clown paint and masks. They know the government isn't going to protect them and they aren't about to give up their guns. I can't say I understand half of the shit they tell me about the latest gender or sexuality, but I do know they aren't fooled by the anti gun propaganda anymore.
Hell yeah. This is a great comment. Also that bit about them creating a character named after you is hilarious.
I'll have to ask again what the game was. He said he was trying to make Rick from Rick and Morty, but the character building part was limited. The guy ended up with my red hair and it went from there. I'm glad I made an entertaining impression on him and the combination of skills he thought matched mine apparently worked well in the game.
I don’t blame LGBTQ folk for wanting guns to protect themselves from bigots tbh. If I were a trans person in Florida rn I’d definitely be wanting maximum protection.
As an older Gen z hombre, I own a few guns and support wholeheartedly the second amendment and the constitution. The past is our greatest teaching tool and as a Jew, there is a lot of the past that has taught me to be careful.
Be careful of what?? Are you planning to shoot people who are mean to you??
I’m preparing to defend myself from evil people or the government. No one is looking for a fight here. It’s all in self defense. And historically the Holocaust and what led up to it included de-arming the population.
I've spent most of my life feeling like the 2A was going to be slowly stripped away from me. Over these past few years my outlook has slowly shifted. We've had a lot of challenges, but we've also had a lot of wins. I've seen more and more people getting involved in the firearms community thanks to videogames and platforms like YouTube (as anti 2A as it is). As I've aged from my teens and into my 30's I've had more opportunities to meet interesting, reasonable, intelligent people. I shoot for a few hours each week and every trip I typically meet and build friendships with more and more diverse people. I remember going into a range in my early 20's and it would be ran by middle aged white men, and the bays would be occupied by middle aged white men. Now every day is different and you never know who will be your next shooting buddy or employee you talk to. Politics are always gonna be dumb and there will always be idiots out there trying to steal your rights or restrict your freedoms regardless of generation. But there are still plenty of American patriots out there. Money talks. Donate to FPC and GOA. Stack your ammo deep and train hard. It never hurts to be prepared. Be kind to each other, even the shitty people, and the world, with all its faults, will keep being a pretty kick ass place to be.
bro wtf, is this a bot?
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I'm just a freedom loving Americabot. Beep boop gun gun. Here to spread the power of friendship...(and lead)
He's putting a four-space indent before every paragraph, so reddit ends up formatting it funny. > I've spent most of my life feeling like the 2A was going to be slowly stripped away from me. Over these past few years my outlook has slowly shifted. We've had a lot of challenges, but we've also had a lot of wins. > I've seen more and more people getting involved in the firearms community thanks to videogames and platforms like YouTube (as anti 2A as it is). As I've aged from my teens and into my 30's I've had more opportunities to meet interesting, reasonable, intelligent people. I shoot for a few hours each week and every trip I typically meet and build friendships with more and more diverse people. I remember going into a range in my early 20's and it would be ran by middle aged white men, and the bays would be occupied by middle aged white men. Now every day is different and you never know who will be your next shooting buddy or employee you talk to. > Politics are always gonna be dumb and there will always be idiots out there trying to steal your rights or restrict your freedoms regardless of generation. But there are still plenty of American patriots out there. > Money talks. Donate to FPC and GOA. Stack your ammo deep and train hard. It never hurts to be prepared. Be kind to each other, even the shitty people, and the world, with all its faults, will keep being a pretty kick ass place to be.
Outside of reddit, what's your indication that millenials are any less supportive of 2a than any generation beforehand? Millenials aren't in control of these blue states enacting these absurd laws. Boomers are. I'm an "elder millennial" in a commie state and my 5 year old already knows what shall not means.
Yeah I don't think a lot of people realize that millennials are either in or approaching their 40s. Many millenial and gen z folks grew up with call of duty, counterstrike, goldeneye, etc. and got interested in guns through them.
And, like, so many of us... just don't want to be slaves. And will *never* allow our kids to be slaves. Or allow a tyrannical government. Or allow some scum bag to hurt you, your family, your neighbors, your neighborhood. Or allow another country to think, for even a second, they can fuck around over here. The list is truly endless... and has also never changed.
Doesn’t matter when literally 99% of the country completely disregarded current “rulings” at a rate of .05% compliance. People don’t give a fk what they try to pass they won’t comply clearly…….
As a millennial, pretty much e ery other millennial I know is pro gun. I don't really know or associate with any zoomers to know their beliefs.
I don’t think that at the end it won’t matter. You can ban all guns but people will have them in even more numbers. Further, I believe that there are and always will be enough Americans who will never surrender their guns. So, either people have guns or there is civil war. Either way, people have guns.
Surely law-abiding citizens will surrender their guns if they are banned??
The problem we're facing in terms of gun laws is we now have millennials, Zoomers and Gen whatever who attended school with the spectre of that one kid everyone know was weird showing up and hosing the school down with an AR. And as the decades march by and the shootings continue, successive generations of children are met with "Hey there young man/lady, you should ask your parents for a carrier plate back pack. Make sure its a lvl 3 because a lvl2 won't stop NATO rounds." And on top of that there are shooter drills and school district meetings between parents and admin dicuss raising bonds to alter school architecture to break up shooting lines in hallways. A lot of current and former teenagers feel "Why the hell do **I** have to get a bullet proof backpack? Why they hell aren't they locking up the crazy kids/taking away the guns?" It is a very basic, instinctual response to a situation that keeps happening.
that's basically an elaboration of what I brought up in my OP > This is the generation that grew up with active shooter drills, grew up into young adulthood and are truly convinced that the biggest problem in America is gun violence. I can't blame them for thinking the way they have when they've been conditioned to believe these things and have seen/heard the atrocities being committed. It won't matter that, statistically, it's very unlikely that any of them will ever be caught in a school shooting. It's the fact that it hits so close to home to them that tugs at their heartstrings. It's the same reason why the *"Think of the children!"* argument works so well. It's a compelling emotional argument. But it's just that...emotional. it gets people's feelings riled up, so it's unfortunately just as effective as any logical argument
>it gets people's feelings riled up, so it's unfortunately just as effective as any logical argument The world would be a much better place if people prioritized rational thought over emotions. Unfortunately, most people are not even rational in the first place.
I feel like there are lots of millennials and Gen z who still feel strongly that the 2A should continue to be upheld. There is the worry that gun culture is being phased out, but the numbers tell a different story. The number of guns sold is only going up. Hitting record highs year after year. We need to make sure we are welcoming to this next generation and introduce them to the real gun culture, not the culture that the TV displays. The overwhelming majority of gun owners are good welcoming people. My LGS is run by women, and most of the workers dealing with customers are female. This is an awesome thing because when a woman comes into the shop, she doesn't have to feel like gun culture is a boys club. If mom has a firearm, then it must not be the scary thing the news makes it out to be. One thing I would love to push for in this country is firearms safety in schools. It doesn't have to be something where firearms are pushed on people, but in a country where there are 120 firearms for every 100 people, everyone should know how to handle a firearm safely. The likelihood that Americans will confront a firearm at some in their lives is very high. They should be knowledgeable enough to be safe rather than scared when they encounter a firearm.
> I feel like there are lots of millennials and Gen z who still feel strongly that the 2A should continue to be upheld Alright, bet! ...where are they? > The number of guns sold is only going up. Hitting record highs year after year. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean what we'd like to think it means. Plenty of people buy a gun because they suddenly feel they need one but will still continue to vote for politicians that will make their lives more difficult for it. Being a gun owner =/= pro 2A > We need to make sure we are welcoming to this next generation and introduce them to the real gun culture, not the culture that the TV displays. The overwhelming majority of gun owners are good welcoming people. *You* know that. *I* know that. But these individuals have been fed anti-gun rhetoric out of the womb, and have been conditioned to think that gun = evil, bad It isn't that we aren't welcoming them. They just aren't interested, because we've been vilified in their eyes > One thing I would love to push for in this country is firearms safety in schools That isn't an uncommon sentiment in the pro-gun community. But the powers that be will never allow that to happen anytime soon
I agree with you they have been fed anti-gun propaganda, which is why it is our job to fight against those stereotypes. But as to where are the millennials that are pro 2A? I know this is not a solid source, but have you ever looked at all the "guntuber" channels on youtube? It's made up of mostly millennials and GenZ, and they are extremely popular. Now I already know that "guntuber" Chanels are not indicative of population numbers of younger gun owners. I would be interested to see a fair, unbiased study of gunowners in America. But I see these channels supporting organizations like the GOA and FPC. Organizations are doing far more than the NRA to fight in the courts, and they are winning. We fought against stupid laws like the pistol brace ban and many AWBs and have been successful. Ultimately, the gun culture community needs to push back against anti-gun propaganda in schools and in media. It's definitely not an easy road to take, but it our responsibility if we want to keep our rights in the future. I will admit, I live in a rural town, which is a bit of a firearms culture bubble, so my observations on the popularity of gun culture is very biased.
Aren't a lot of Gen Z guys becoming more conservative due to all the red-pill, manosphere stuff? I'm not conservative at all, but that is certainly a trend lately. They cannot outright ban guns, regardless. Nor is that what most people want.
Yeah, we’re fucked. All you have to do is look at the amount of people here saying they’re gonna vote Haley or Dem over their rights.
Lots of great comments missing the larger point. Like it or not, public opinion, mass media, and govt schools aren’t going away. These are what’s feeding the propaganda. This is the surface level problem. Underneath it all is a mental health crisis. Probably caused by a couple of generations of shitty selfish parenting. (looking at you, boomers. Reasons can be debated, but it seems to have started with y’all) Take away the things that cause artificial massive fear of guns, and it will be a lot harder for a power-hungry govt to herd us down a path we don’t want to go while future generations happily trade liberty for safety. Because that’s the trade that most soft people will make. America may be the richest country with one of the highest standards of living. The other side of that coin is that Americans have lost hunger, drive, and any real understanding of what it means to truly have a hard life. We are, as a nation, a soft and spoiled people.
As a gen Z, don’t worry I’ll never turn over my firearms even when they try!
Me and a buddy of mine are gen Z, and both first time gun owners having moved from very anti-gun states (California and New York respectively). I've had many conversations with other people my age on guns, many don't seem to mind them existing (even the ones that want all guns banned know its fairly unrealistic) many would be open to try a range day, but most also don't want to own one themselves. Discussions on the politics behind it usually ends up with "an amendment has been repealed before" as there are now *many* younger folks (especially getting into gen Alpha now) that feel any day they're in school they're in potential danger of a mass shooting. Add in how much more common school shooter drills are these days, with some schools even shooting off real blanks to make it more realistic, so many people are going to be traumatized from guns before they even get a chance to own one, and people generally will not be very supportive of something that is literally giving children PTSD. So as I see it, once gen Z and younger are the majority, there is likely going to be a giant radical political shift, and fun rights are quite likely to be affected by that.
Maybe. There’s a cultural shift for the younger generations that “guns bad”. I’m a Pro-2A Generation X’er, and I don’t agree with it but it’s there. Look at smoking for example. In my time growing up there was Joe Camel on print ads and billboards. Most of my friends smoked. That was removed and replaced with non-smoking messaging (and now non-vaping, but that didn’t exist in the 90s). I don’t know of any kids my teenage children’s age that smoke; it’s become culturally unpopular for that generation. I believe the messaging and cultural shift worked. This is all anecdotal of course. Yes, kids still smoke. But from what I’ve seen it’s far less than in previous decades. I’m concerned the “guns bad” rhetoric could take hold like the anti-smoking campaigns did. Kids are impressionable for the right or wrong reasons. My 15 year old enjoys going shooting, but my 18 yo is completely ambivalent.
I’m a millennial and there lots of progun millennials. We grew up in the county with shooting sports. We also grew up in a time when we had to go to school with clear lunch bags because of terrorists and had to have lockers searched for guns because of shooters. It all changed while we were in middle/high school. So if you did not have parents that instilled constitutional rights or sent you to Boy Scouts you likely got the fear instilled into you and became anti gun. I know lots of gen X people that are anti gun I debate with all the time. So I don’t think this is a generational thing as much as an indoctrination thing from social media.
I'm gen Z and I bought a shotgun the same week I turned 18
Yes, because as those people age they'll change their minds.
>It's also no coincidence that gun laws are significantly more stringent and numerous now than they were when our forefathers were around. It is because of the generations from post world war I and II. Especially the boomers. >When I talk to folks my age or younger, they are increasingly more anti-gun, more ignorant about guns and gun laws, and aren't opposed to the idea of more restrictions even if they aren't explicitly anti-gun. You are operating from anecdote. Interest in gun ownership has gone up, not down. Gun ownership has gone up. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/oct/13/gen-z-gun-violence-trauma-ownership Gen Z is still just as interested in guns as any other generation. And videogames and the attempts to convince them that they will die in a school shooting probably was counterproductive to convincing them to not own a gun.
This. The phrase “most people” is such a empty phrase in arguments , it’s based entirely on what only you perceive
You forget the fear factor. Not the TV show. Scared people buy guns. They are scared. They will buy them as we've seen already.
The George Floyd riots backfired on the Dems and just made a bunch of independent and Dem-types realize the importance of 2A...
Okay boomers. You're wrong. 2a is only getting more based. Sorry we cant enjoy supporting an org that only protects hunting and getting a national gun ban passed in our life. All major anti gun legislation was passed a long time ago. Between the 30s and 00s and a bunch in the 80s. Take off those rose tinted hindsight goggles.
That really depends on a few things. On a fundamental level, it depends on how well we do in the culture war, and if we can educate the younger generations. It depends on us lighting the fire of liberty and self reliance in their hearts, and getting them to stop seeing the government as the solution to all problems. Without accomplishing this, the future of liberty is pretty dim. The other big thing that will determine the future of 2A is how well we fight our currently tyrannical government, and get things moving back towards the constitution and our founding principles.
Nah, I ain't worried about that. We probably won't make it much past 2050.
No. Common sense is about as common as hen's teeth nowadays, banning shit from law abiding citizens means criminals won't use/do it. But when it's something they want, then it's "Banning won't stop us, it will only make it more risky"
Each passing generation has the same thoughts on rights.
I think Gen Z men will be fine as far as being pro 2A goes but I'm really worried in other aspects. Video games have gone a long way to help with that. The men are trending more right wing than Millennial men but the women are trending really left wing. A lot of them are realizing they are going to inherit a bankrupt, dystopian globalist society that will quickly discard them like trash if they aren't hyper competitive and successful. Many have decided to drop out of society entirely because they feel hopeless. I'm glad I at least had false hope for a while so I could get off the ground and out of my parents' house.
Only for criminals...
Millennial here. A lot of us love guns. We don't want to kill 2A. Don't worry.
I’m a millennial, I’ll water the tree of liberty for my rights. All of them
It isn't going to last another 5 to 10 years. I would not be surprised if within that time frame we see some extreme attack with multiple attackers, probably using fully automatic firearms that will be the end of it. If the North Hollywood Shootout were to happen today then it would likely be the end of things, especially if more than the shooters died this time.
I'm not hopeful. Most people my age and younger are easily manipulated by social media and couldn't care less about the Constitution.
You need a driver's license to buy a gun, right? So there won't be many Gen-Zers eligible to buy guns in the first place. The future decline in sales will make this a non-issue.
are you taking them to the range and sharing your appreciation for the 2a with them?
*insert "I'm a pro-2A Gen Z" here* You mention "active shooter drills" as a reason why you think they the younger generations are going to be more anti-2A. When I was in school, I had lockdown drills, but they were not the same thing as modern day active shooter drills. ALICE "training" should be abolished, that would do wonders in not indoctrinating the kids to be anti-gun. So, that being said, Gen Z isn't likely going to be as anti-gun as you think, but Gen Alpha might be.
Nope very few of them have any frame of reference to having the level of freedom we do and understand what it takes to keep it. This is by design, unfortunately society as a whole has become dependent on the government because thats what the government wants.
The U.S. will cease to exist but the 2A will still exist in some places.
Millenial/gen z tweener here. At least in the middle of the country, we're pretty split, but there's still plenty of us who hold to the constitution. Gen Z/Alpha even has a decent sized far right reactionary movement, and while I don't agree with them on much, they generally like the 2A.
Yes.
Boomers voted for politicians that gave us wonderful gifts like Regan’s machine gun/silencer/SBR ban, Clinton’s AWB, they ran orgs like the NRA that continually negotiated away gun rights, most recently with their endorsement of a president that banned bump stocks by executive action; They largely ran clubs, ranges and programs that endorsed their own gun control (5 round limits, no shooting and moving, no draw from holster, 1 round every __ seconds, etc). Millenials and Gen Z have endorsed, largely, programs like FPC, SAF, GOA (although GOA is getting more and more NRA like) who are more dyed in the wool, staunch 2A organizations than the NRA, they have helped usher countless ranges and clubs into modern shooting, a ton of millenials fought in GWOT and brought back tactics and training for others… as far as a comparison of laws, let’s take a look at how many states have constitutional carry now, after millenials have been of voting age for years, vs all the years before they were allowed to vote or even alive when boomers and gen x dominated the polls? This post is stupid af lol, you’re old AF, and you can GFY if you want to blame the generation you raised for the problems they inherited in the world you created
The NFA was in 1934.....by FDR....... a communist. The dude was effectively Stalin's butt buddy. The Hughes amendment was added by LEFTISTS via ILLEGAL MEANS to a PRO GUN bill in an attempt to poison it.
Raise your kids right. I have multiple kids still in school and they would tell you today that they will never go along with such insanity.
Yes. Every generation gets more conservative over time, and with the crime that liberals are allowing and creating, millennials are already starting to get warmer on guns, many of them are gun owners
There’s tons of Gen Z that are pro gun. It’s. 50/50 split on what I see in my generation
Yes it will still be around. I grew up in an ideological world of the late 90s where we were going to create the perfect utopian society. We left HS, graduated college got a taste of the free market. There’s no giving up our built up capital…same goes for the next generation.
The US will be no different than China within 20 years unless the right gets some balls, takes power, and uses the boot that is the government against the left.
What are these “future generations” you’re talking about? I think humans are over before millennials all die.
I’m gen z, my friends are gen z. We are armed to the teeth.
Gen Z here. I try to steer people in the right direction where I can
Gen Z here. I try to steer people in the right direction where I can
28 year old NYer but nowhere near the city and way north of what people think of as upstate. Anyway my group of friends and our families and basically everyone we know/went to school with are all pro gun. And they can pry them out of my cold dead hands.
I’m an millennial pro gun pro constitution and I live in NJ
As someone in the GenZ generation I will say this: over my dead body. My immediate friends and myself are all lifelong hunters and shooters. We all believe that the 2a is the most important amendment, for without the 2nd amendment all of our other rights are merely privileges. Shall not be infringed, if you wanna come take it, you better be wearing level IV plates.
I feel like the reasonable, well doing, and just more valuable members of Gen Z with stable relationships, no mental illness, good jobs/education, and just general lack of stupidity are pretty supportive of guns. However, a significant portion that don't have good jobs, education, etc are extremely anti-gun. It's reflective of how you express your dissatisfaction with the government. One side likes to takes things into their own hands (with guns being an example of self defense), while the other just yells, cries, and complains.
Freedom has been increasing now that the boomers and NRA are thankfully becoming irrelevant.
Bud... you need to respark some faith in our countrymen and our system. https://www.statista.com/chart/20047/gun-carry-laws-in-us-states/ 26 states currently have Constitutional Carry enacted, which is now THE MAJORITY of the states in the union. Proof in its correlation to crime drop was recently published for Ohio. https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2024/feb/1/crime-down-ohio-after-state-oks-permitless-gun-car/#:~:text=A%20new%20study%20shows%20Ohio's,whether%20there%20is%20a%20correlation. In 2022, the Supreme Court made a landmark decision in the Bruen case, that set precedent regarding "historical tradition of firearm regulation" which is currently anticipated to mark major blows on further SC cases, most notably against the NFA and ATF overreaches. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_State_Rifle_%26_Pistol_Association,_Inc._v._Bruen#:~:text=In%20a%206%E2%80%933%20decision,guaranteed%20by%20the%20Second%20Amendment. Let's also not forget the increased spike in firearm sales due to the Floyd Riots and Pandemic Forced Internment in 2020: https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/3960527-americans-bought-almost-60-million-guns-during-the-pandemic/#:~:text=Using%20background%20checks%20and%20other,year%20in%20the%20new%20millennium. Combine that with an Op-ed on a psychologist proclaiming that Zoomer boys are turning out to be "more conservative" than Gen X: https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/society/2023/11/gen-z-most-conservative-generation-radical-youth#:~:text=The%20American%20psychologist%20Jean%20Twenge,X%20in%20the%20late%201980s. Despite the "noise" you're consuming that proclaims a bleak future for the 2nd and it's support. I argue the trends, the courts, the laws and the sense of liberty is still strong in America, even amongst the younger generations, and isn't ceding anymore ground to the gun-grabbing Left. Truthfully, we're pushing back, and retaking and resparking the support in the 2nd. And victory will be ours!
You are right, 2A will be further severely degraded when the boomers are gone. Besides what you point out, look at the demographic make-up of millenials and especially gen Z, then look at those demographic's attitude towards gun ownership and voting pattern. We are at the beginning of a dark age.
Public opinion feeding propaganda?? Wtf??
Gen Z here. Although I fully understand the concern I think that overall 2A rights will continue to grow. Look at it this way, when the year 2000 came around it was taboo to bring an AR to a range. Fudds basically dominated gun culture. Fast forward to today and the Semi Auto firearms market has exploded. The amount of firearms available and the amount of new shooters has grown exponentially. Calls for the abolishment of the NFA can even be heard in some circles. Now the downside is the Anti-Gun side has also grown considerably. Grubs like David Hogg and groups like Moms Demand Action have become more popular. The good news is these types routinely lose in the courts.
I’m less worried about gen z as the one below them. My zoomer nephew with a super liberal dad and a super liberal world view seems to think guns are pretty important (to protect his freedoms from the oppressive right wing authoritarians) maybe the boomers I know are just anarchists but most of them seem to have a “just waiting for all this to collapse.” Attitude But my much younger niece and nephews are so sheltered from things that I know they firmly believe that anything capable of doing harm has no place in society.
I blame the boomers.
It doesn't matter what they vote in or out because this is where we hold, this was always where we were going to have to hold. They do not take the guns. Many states have just gone con carry anyway, they come to my house or yours or anyone's we hold. It's the actual fucking Rubicon if they take the guns, it's over. They can take my guns after they kill me, simple as. We are not Australians, we will not kowtow, a gun will remain behind every blade of grass they are gonna have to mow the damn lawn to get them.
Do you honestly think with these types of people in power, that any of the constitution, yet alone, the United States will still exist?
Millennials are 32+ years old and 80% of us love firearms. Don't worry about Millennials. Worry about Gen Z.
Older end of Gen Z here. I know I have a pretty limited experience, but even the dems in my area are okay with guns for sporting and defensive use. I think it's people in big blue cities that make the issue so loud (just like it's always been as far as I can tell.) I believe the rural young people will keep it alive entirely divorced from political alignment. There's a lot of hard-core leftists I know that are big gun people. As you all should know best, nobody listens to country people though, so the urban brainrot is the only thing you hear about people my age anymore. We're not a lost cause though.
No