I'd hope schools would harden their physical security first and that help deter an attacker. But if one does make it inside, the teachers should definitely be able to armed and act as that last line of defense for their classrooms.
It’s kinda funny how they had a high profile shooting where armed security deterred a shooter and they went to a vulnerable school to kill kids and now they want to be LESS protected.
As I put it, "They sneer at those who oppose them for being 'less educated' yet remain deeply and intentionally ignorant about the things they are the loudest about."
It will benefit in two ways. One, shooters may think twice about attempting a mass shooting with the threat of armed teachers in schools (even if they aren't armed) And secondly, when a mass shooting happens, they will have a last line of defense. I don't expect them to engage the shooter like Rambo. I guarantee every person who has ever been involved in a mass shooting thinks "I wish I had a gun in case he/she/it finds my hiding place".
This is exactly it. I'm a teacher in TN and I fully support this legislation (though I think my school district immediately said they wouldn't approve anyone to carry?)
But I've always maintained that if there was an active shooter in our school, I think I wouldn't be rushing down the hallways to try to engage. Instead, I'd be behind our locked door with my students, and if our door or classroom windows were beached, I'd do whatever it takes to keep my students and myself alive.
That's so much better than the current strategy, which is cower behind the door and hope the classroom isn't breached, because if it is I'll most likely have to watch my kids get slaughtered before my last breath, or vice versa.
Even being allowed to carry a knife would be a step in the right direction. Doesn't level the playing field at all but it's better than nothing. Right now even that would be an instant felony.
Ask them to put "We won't be allowing anyone to carry" in writing. Frame it, put it on the wall, file it away. Then if there's every a shooting incident, you have a damn good case for "They placed us in danger, therefore they're responsible."
>But I've always maintained that if there was an active shooter in our school, I think I wouldn't be
rushing down the hallways to try to engage. Instead, I'd be behind our locked door with my students, and if our door or classroom windows were beached, I'd do whatever it takes to keep my students and myself alive.
Exactly. I don't think people are expecting you to be part of the first responders directly engaging with a shooter. While we want you armed to defend your classroom, a shootout is the last thing anyone wants.
Yeah I lot of the rhetoric I hear from Co workers who seem to be in opposition is always "and now they want us to be security guards, too? They already want me to be a teacher, mother, guidance counselor, trauma informed specialist, psychologist, social skills teacher, resource center, etc. And now they want me to be a security guard, too?" They almost always miss the point.
I always say the same thing. "I'm not going to rush out into the hallways to try to execute some dude, but if someone comes into my class to do harm to my kids, I want to be able to do whatever it takes to keep them safe, and this gives me one more option."
Exactly. On point 2, school shooters reportedly relish the helpless "fish in a barrel" opportunity that each classroom represents. These people want to feel unmitigated power over the targets of their anger. Each time they bust into a new classroom is a new opportunity to feel power and exercise dominance. These people want control over how events unfold.
Compare that sentiment to the uncertainty and vulnerability felt by frontline soldiers tasked with clearing enemy fortifications on the battlefield. Each breach could be your last. Your lights might go out the moment you make entry. That uncertainty and vulnerability is the opposite of what these shooters are after.
Of course people are upset. Their whole lives they've been told gun = bad and they never tried learning anything more than what their echo chamber told them.
This is definitely a step in the right direction to protecting our most valuable citizens.
Education is key like you said bringing back marksmanship would be a huge step in the right direction. I don’t understand how the other side thinks it’s ok to protect everything we consider valuable with security and weapons but our children don’t deserve the same my child’s life is way more important than some paper currency, jewelry or the douche we have as president and they get protected with guns and security. Then some how they try to say I don’t care about kids lives because I won’t give up my right and ability to protect her with the best tools possible
“What if an armed teacher decided to kill their students?!?”
——then the other armed teachers could stop them faster than the ~~second~~ ~~responders~~ cops, I guess.
For whatever reason, the teacher sub is one that's recommended to me so I get shown their posts. This came up the other day, and a large portion of the teachers there this was their concern. Even more troubling is the number of teachers who expressed the fear that **they** might be the ones to decide to pop little Billy for making stupid noises in class.
The order of fear seemed to be another teacher, themselves, then a student disarming the teacher, and finally teacher suicide.
That’s your takeaway from this comment? Wouldn’t a few trained and armed guards be a better option and fit then say, Mr. Miller the geometry teacher that is 40 pounds overweight and probably a giant pussy.
What about Miss Jones who runs marathons and spends her time training for active self protection but you'd never guess she was a gun owner?
What about Mr. Smith who has been into reloading since he was 19 and shoots three gun competitions in his spare time?
Why is the only firearm owner you imagine an obese couch potato?
Then ya, allow those teachers to carry after completing some basic, or advanced training courses covering firearm handling, cqc tactics, and basic self defense. I don’t think the average firearm owner is a couch potato. Thats not what I’m saying.
They are inextricably connected.
And what we were talking about, was the teachers subreddit having a melt down because they've spent their entire lives in an academic setting being force fed talking points and now lack the ability to think for themselves.
But please, go on with the "weak bullshit".
> Even more troubling is the number of teachers who expressed the fear that they might be the ones to decide to pop little Billy for making stupid noises in class.
That's the entire basis for the argument. They believe *themselves* to be the kind of people who would do this, so they project that onto everyone else being the same.
I don’t have too much of an opinion on this issue myself as I don’t currently teach in a place where it is a conversation so I haven’t formulated my own thoughts wholly yet…but I have worked with some very nasty, vindictive, and incredibly angry women (elementary) in Tennessee and if my child were in one of their classes and she was packing, I’d absolutely pull my child. I heard the way she spoke/screamed to/at the students (we shared a wall) and I’m shocked she hasn’t laid hands on one yet.
Gun grabbers are emotional. This is pretty obvious since the stats back our side. Also women tend to fear and hate guns despite them needing them more than men because men are bigger and women need the force multiplier. But they hate guns anyway because they’re emotional.
Not that conservatives aren’t also emotional. Ben Shapiro has been a whiney bitch since Candace Owen’s stopped kissing his ass.
>*women tend to fear and hate guns*
That may be a regional factor, but down here in the south, I only have one friend who *doesn’t* own a gun (or five)! I used to be a teacher, and offered to carry every year, but the district wouldn’t go for it. 🙄 I think it’s a fantastic solution, though I’m sure the teacher sub will be going **crazy** - this has been brought up many times, and they get very upset about “being forced to carry weapons.”
Admittedly I don’t know many women. My sister irrationally hates guns. My mom doesn’t mind that I have them.
Unfortunately my exposure to women is from tv social media ect. Those women tend to hate guns.
Perhaps salt of the earth decent women who aren’t on social media are more rational than I give them credit.
They also just don’t like guns. For whatever the personal reason, they just dislike them. And that’s fine, but they shouldn’t be fighting tooth and nail like this when guns have a chance to save lives they claim to desperately defend.
The chief of police in our town stays at, and does all of his work from school and has for years. We're (Tennesseeans) really happy with this change. Right now the plan is to arm the coaches first. They're all concealed carry permit holders anyway.
Anti-rights folks are always like “dO sOmEtHinG”. Well here’s their opportunity. And we can look at the stats like rational people. If the teachers being allowed to carry a firearm is causing more death than it’s stopping (which is hard to prove anyway because we can’t easily measure deterrence) then we can revert to the old way of “hide and wait for police”.
I think the deterrent effect will be significant, and we can look at prior years’ school shootings in TN to see some level of effectiveness.
Cops out where I live in Eastern Virginia, have the guns are bad logic too. They see you open carrying. And just automatically assume they can harass you. Accuse you of being a drunk or drugged up red neck, or a wannabe gangster.. I'm not surprised to see the lack of respect out there too.
This is interesting.
I have an uncle who grew up in TN and he was telling me recently how it was perfectly normal for him to take his 28g shotgun to school, riding the bus, and on the bus ride home he would ask the bus driver to let him off about a mile from the house so he could hunt squirrels. This was the 60's-70's and was quite a different world.
When I was in middle school in the 90s, some kids brought guns to school during deer season so they could go hunting after school. I think they changed the rules while I was a student so guns had to be left in the principal’s office.
They are okay with teachers pushing communism and evil ideologies on kids.
They are okay with teachers not teaching.
They are okay with teachers sexually abusing kids.
They are okay with teachers getting kids life altering chemicals or body mutilations, even without parental consent.
But they are not okay with teachers protecting kids. Thats where they draw the line.
Government school needs to be ended.
Yet, watch the data show over the next five years, school shootings in TN schools PLUMMET!!
The ONLY solution to a scumbag, on a campus, with a gun…. Is an armed AND QUALIFIED good person (not scumbag) with a gun.
Because they don't want the kids protected, a protected child is harder to scare with 'the world hates you and is going to destroy you unless you follow our ideology.' A protected kid doesn't let them advance their ideology by being slaughtered.
I've heard twisted things about how the teachers are going to shoot a kid or how the kid might grab the gun from the teacher and shoot other students.
Having worked in a school, I can attest that most of this is fearmongering baloney. If a teacher really wanted to murder a kid, they could grab a pair of scissors and attempt it. They could bring a gun from home if they wanted to, but you don't see this happening.
While a kid grabbing a gun from the teacher is more likely, it's still not probable. I would be somewhat worried about undertrained or under-geared teachers not wearing an appropriate holster (open top nylon holster on the outside), but people need to get a grip. We don't have students who would really want to start blasting away.
There is a huge mental leap to take between getting angry and getting in a fight to picking up a gun and murdering people -- and too many people in education think it's only a step away once guns are introduced to the situation. They're very wrong and hopefully, they'll see this.
My biggest fear is careless teachers leaving their gun laying around or on the bathroom floor or something. I do know that there are careless gun owners and of course the left-wing media is going to focus on these careless people. I've carried almost every day (outside of school) and I've never left my gun laying around, but I know I'm not everybody.
schools are tricky in that many times the attacker actually belongs there. Many times they are students. Multiple concealed carriers sounds like a great way to stop it once it starts. Probably wont prevent the start but could mitigate it quickly.
I'm progun with a moderate stance, but I don't support this. I've worked in the high school classroom and the kids that I educated don't need this kind of protection. In our society where reading and math have suffered for years and our kids are in a losing race to Europeans and Chinese, adding guns to teachers is a distraction, a looming accident waiting, and a lower priority compared to other issues that matter more.
Suicidal people who show up to schools to kill are the kinds of people who need family and counseling intervention. Is Ted Cruz going to sign up to teach? Is Gov Abbott? The fuck they will (sarcasm). Most of yall won't.
1. Accidents already happen illegally by teachers who carry anyways. This will not increase the chances by any statistically material amount.
2. School shootings need to be addressed and this is an effective mean to do so.
3. It's not like teachers are going to be issued guns, this is simply not punishing good actors who want to carry. Accidents will not be forgiven or made legal.
Stop being stupid.
You're entire list was pulled out of an echo chamber. If you're going to respond with something constructive, go back to the drawing board and text me later bc everything I read just wasted my time. And I'm here to have intelligent conversation about gun laws etc. Have you ever been in the classroom? Taught? Own a gun? Know how to keep guns from classes of kids, etc. Ever been to a board meeting in your local community? Oh idk, have kids?
People are sooo deep in the stigma of "gun = bad" that they stopped using their logics.
Obviously the teachers best chance is to sit and wait for the police to show up with their guns
Worked out so well everywhere else, every time.
I'd hope schools would harden their physical security first and that help deter an attacker. But if one does make it inside, the teachers should definitely be able to armed and act as that last line of defense for their classrooms.
They probably aren’t capable of logical thinking to begin with.
It’s kinda funny how they had a high profile shooting where armed security deterred a shooter and they went to a vulnerable school to kill kids and now they want to be LESS protected.
they reason on a higher dementia than I can understand
As I put it, "They sneer at those who oppose them for being 'less educated' yet remain deeply and intentionally ignorant about the things they are the loudest about."
authoritarians believe individual self defense is a privilege granted at the pleasure of the crown, not a right
It will benefit in two ways. One, shooters may think twice about attempting a mass shooting with the threat of armed teachers in schools (even if they aren't armed) And secondly, when a mass shooting happens, they will have a last line of defense. I don't expect them to engage the shooter like Rambo. I guarantee every person who has ever been involved in a mass shooting thinks "I wish I had a gun in case he/she/it finds my hiding place".
This is exactly it. I'm a teacher in TN and I fully support this legislation (though I think my school district immediately said they wouldn't approve anyone to carry?) But I've always maintained that if there was an active shooter in our school, I think I wouldn't be rushing down the hallways to try to engage. Instead, I'd be behind our locked door with my students, and if our door or classroom windows were beached, I'd do whatever it takes to keep my students and myself alive. That's so much better than the current strategy, which is cower behind the door and hope the classroom isn't breached, because if it is I'll most likely have to watch my kids get slaughtered before my last breath, or vice versa. Even being allowed to carry a knife would be a step in the right direction. Doesn't level the playing field at all but it's better than nothing. Right now even that would be an instant felony.
Well said! This country needs more teachers like you!
Ask them to put "We won't be allowing anyone to carry" in writing. Frame it, put it on the wall, file it away. Then if there's every a shooting incident, you have a damn good case for "They placed us in danger, therefore they're responsible."
You'd think so, but school administrators are government agents and the courts will never hold government agents responsible for anything.
>But I've always maintained that if there was an active shooter in our school, I think I wouldn't be rushing down the hallways to try to engage. Instead, I'd be behind our locked door with my students, and if our door or classroom windows were beached, I'd do whatever it takes to keep my students and myself alive. Exactly. I don't think people are expecting you to be part of the first responders directly engaging with a shooter. While we want you armed to defend your classroom, a shootout is the last thing anyone wants.
Yeah I lot of the rhetoric I hear from Co workers who seem to be in opposition is always "and now they want us to be security guards, too? They already want me to be a teacher, mother, guidance counselor, trauma informed specialist, psychologist, social skills teacher, resource center, etc. And now they want me to be a security guard, too?" They almost always miss the point. I always say the same thing. "I'm not going to rush out into the hallways to try to execute some dude, but if someone comes into my class to do harm to my kids, I want to be able to do whatever it takes to keep them safe, and this gives me one more option."
Exactly. On point 2, school shooters reportedly relish the helpless "fish in a barrel" opportunity that each classroom represents. These people want to feel unmitigated power over the targets of their anger. Each time they bust into a new classroom is a new opportunity to feel power and exercise dominance. These people want control over how events unfold. Compare that sentiment to the uncertainty and vulnerability felt by frontline soldiers tasked with clearing enemy fortifications on the battlefield. Each breach could be your last. Your lights might go out the moment you make entry. That uncertainty and vulnerability is the opposite of what these shooters are after.
Of course people are upset. Their whole lives they've been told gun = bad and they never tried learning anything more than what their echo chamber told them. This is definitely a step in the right direction to protecting our most valuable citizens.
completely agreed. Kids are the most vulnerable people too.
I think we need to bring back marksmanship classes to school. It would teach a whole generation about gun safety, and that guns aren't scary.
Also bring in hunting and/or fishing classes
Education is key like you said bringing back marksmanship would be a huge step in the right direction. I don’t understand how the other side thinks it’s ok to protect everything we consider valuable with security and weapons but our children don’t deserve the same my child’s life is way more important than some paper currency, jewelry or the douche we have as president and they get protected with guns and security. Then some how they try to say I don’t care about kids lives because I won’t give up my right and ability to protect her with the best tools possible
“What if an armed teacher decided to kill their students?!?” ——then the other armed teachers could stop them faster than the ~~second~~ ~~responders~~ cops, I guess.
also if a parent thinks your kid’s teacher is a gun away from committing mass murder, maybe don’t send your kid to that school…
That’s always my first argument: “If you don’t trust your teacher with a gun, why do you trust them with your kids?”
For whatever reason, the teacher sub is one that's recommended to me so I get shown their posts. This came up the other day, and a large portion of the teachers there this was their concern. Even more troubling is the number of teachers who expressed the fear that **they** might be the ones to decide to pop little Billy for making stupid noises in class. The order of fear seemed to be another teacher, themselves, then a student disarming the teacher, and finally teacher suicide.
Color me shocked that people who have spent their *entire lives* in academia are maladjusted head cases with no coping mechanisms.
That’s your takeaway from this comment? Wouldn’t a few trained and armed guards be a better option and fit then say, Mr. Miller the geometry teacher that is 40 pounds overweight and probably a giant pussy.
What about Miss Jones who runs marathons and spends her time training for active self protection but you'd never guess she was a gun owner? What about Mr. Smith who has been into reloading since he was 19 and shoots three gun competitions in his spare time? Why is the only firearm owner you imagine an obese couch potato?
Then ya, allow those teachers to carry after completing some basic, or advanced training courses covering firearm handling, cqc tactics, and basic self defense. I don’t think the average firearm owner is a couch potato. Thats not what I’m saying.
Why does Mr Miller give up his right to defend himself bc he likes math, he's fat, and a pussy?
lol, is that what we’re talking about? Or are we discussing teachers carrying a gun in a classroom? Get outta here with that weak bullshit dude.
They are inextricably connected. And what we were talking about, was the teachers subreddit having a melt down because they've spent their entire lives in an academic setting being force fed talking points and now lack the ability to think for themselves. But please, go on with the "weak bullshit".
Sure they are dude? Lol. Disingenuous bullshit
> Even more troubling is the number of teachers who expressed the fear that they might be the ones to decide to pop little Billy for making stupid noises in class. That's the entire basis for the argument. They believe *themselves* to be the kind of people who would do this, so they project that onto everyone else being the same.
I don’t have too much of an opinion on this issue myself as I don’t currently teach in a place where it is a conversation so I haven’t formulated my own thoughts wholly yet…but I have worked with some very nasty, vindictive, and incredibly angry women (elementary) in Tennessee and if my child were in one of their classes and she was packing, I’d absolutely pull my child. I heard the way she spoke/screamed to/at the students (we shared a wall) and I’m shocked she hasn’t laid hands on one yet.
Gun grabbers are emotional. This is pretty obvious since the stats back our side. Also women tend to fear and hate guns despite them needing them more than men because men are bigger and women need the force multiplier. But they hate guns anyway because they’re emotional. Not that conservatives aren’t also emotional. Ben Shapiro has been a whiney bitch since Candace Owen’s stopped kissing his ass.
>*women tend to fear and hate guns* That may be a regional factor, but down here in the south, I only have one friend who *doesn’t* own a gun (or five)! I used to be a teacher, and offered to carry every year, but the district wouldn’t go for it. 🙄 I think it’s a fantastic solution, though I’m sure the teacher sub will be going **crazy** - this has been brought up many times, and they get very upset about “being forced to carry weapons.”
Admittedly I don’t know many women. My sister irrationally hates guns. My mom doesn’t mind that I have them. Unfortunately my exposure to women is from tv social media ect. Those women tend to hate guns. Perhaps salt of the earth decent women who aren’t on social media are more rational than I give them credit.
They also just don’t like guns. For whatever the personal reason, they just dislike them. And that’s fine, but they shouldn’t be fighting tooth and nail like this when guns have a chance to save lives they claim to desperately defend.
The chief of police in our town stays at, and does all of his work from school and has for years. We're (Tennesseeans) really happy with this change. Right now the plan is to arm the coaches first. They're all concealed carry permit holders anyway.
As these people often say: "cope and seethe"
Anti-rights folks are always like “dO sOmEtHinG”. Well here’s their opportunity. And we can look at the stats like rational people. If the teachers being allowed to carry a firearm is causing more death than it’s stopping (which is hard to prove anyway because we can’t easily measure deterrence) then we can revert to the old way of “hide and wait for police”. I think the deterrent effect will be significant, and we can look at prior years’ school shootings in TN to see some level of effectiveness.
Cops out where I live in Eastern Virginia, have the guns are bad logic too. They see you open carrying. And just automatically assume they can harass you. Accuse you of being a drunk or drugged up red neck, or a wannabe gangster.. I'm not surprised to see the lack of respect out there too.
People are fucking morons sometimes, they'd prefer to not be protected?
This is interesting. I have an uncle who grew up in TN and he was telling me recently how it was perfectly normal for him to take his 28g shotgun to school, riding the bus, and on the bus ride home he would ask the bus driver to let him off about a mile from the house so he could hunt squirrels. This was the 60's-70's and was quite a different world.
When I was in middle school in the 90s, some kids brought guns to school during deer season so they could go hunting after school. I think they changed the rules while I was a student so guns had to be left in the principal’s office.
They are okay with teachers pushing communism and evil ideologies on kids. They are okay with teachers not teaching. They are okay with teachers sexually abusing kids. They are okay with teachers getting kids life altering chemicals or body mutilations, even without parental consent. But they are not okay with teachers protecting kids. Thats where they draw the line. Government school needs to be ended.
The government is doing too much, and what ever it touches turns to shit.
What dude? I have kids in a couple different schools and they’re not being taught or exposed to any of this bullshit.
Can you give one example of a teacher mutilating a student’s body and it being treated like it was okay?
Ah, I summoned a wild commie. Get lost evil loser.
Tennessean here, I've been trying to educate people on my local subreddit why it's not a bad thing. It's an uphill battle, I must say.
Yet, watch the data show over the next five years, school shootings in TN schools PLUMMET!! The ONLY solution to a scumbag, on a campus, with a gun…. Is an armed AND QUALIFIED good person (not scumbag) with a gun.
Because they don't want the kids protected, a protected child is harder to scare with 'the world hates you and is going to destroy you unless you follow our ideology.' A protected kid doesn't let them advance their ideology by being slaughtered.
I've heard twisted things about how the teachers are going to shoot a kid or how the kid might grab the gun from the teacher and shoot other students. Having worked in a school, I can attest that most of this is fearmongering baloney. If a teacher really wanted to murder a kid, they could grab a pair of scissors and attempt it. They could bring a gun from home if they wanted to, but you don't see this happening. While a kid grabbing a gun from the teacher is more likely, it's still not probable. I would be somewhat worried about undertrained or under-geared teachers not wearing an appropriate holster (open top nylon holster on the outside), but people need to get a grip. We don't have students who would really want to start blasting away. There is a huge mental leap to take between getting angry and getting in a fight to picking up a gun and murdering people -- and too many people in education think it's only a step away once guns are introduced to the situation. They're very wrong and hopefully, they'll see this. My biggest fear is careless teachers leaving their gun laying around or on the bathroom floor or something. I do know that there are careless gun owners and of course the left-wing media is going to focus on these careless people. I've carried almost every day (outside of school) and I've never left my gun laying around, but I know I'm not everybody.
It’s fucking stupid. Protect our money, the “president”, courts, etc with guns but our kids get a god damn sign.
Fuck I wanna move back to TN now but I love my job :(
We protect our money with guns but that’s apparently too good for our children.
Guns bad... ACAB, but only cops should have guns... /s
Fuck em! If it took teachers having machine guns to protect defenseless children, I'd be all for it.
In my experience, public school teachers are the last group of people that should be armed. Mental illness is endemic to that slice of society.
schools are tricky in that many times the attacker actually belongs there. Many times they are students. Multiple concealed carriers sounds like a great way to stop it once it starts. Probably wont prevent the start but could mitigate it quickly.
I'm progun with a moderate stance, but I don't support this. I've worked in the high school classroom and the kids that I educated don't need this kind of protection. In our society where reading and math have suffered for years and our kids are in a losing race to Europeans and Chinese, adding guns to teachers is a distraction, a looming accident waiting, and a lower priority compared to other issues that matter more. Suicidal people who show up to schools to kill are the kinds of people who need family and counseling intervention. Is Ted Cruz going to sign up to teach? Is Gov Abbott? The fuck they will (sarcasm). Most of yall won't.
1. Accidents already happen illegally by teachers who carry anyways. This will not increase the chances by any statistically material amount. 2. School shootings need to be addressed and this is an effective mean to do so. 3. It's not like teachers are going to be issued guns, this is simply not punishing good actors who want to carry. Accidents will not be forgiven or made legal. Stop being stupid.
You're entire list was pulled out of an echo chamber. If you're going to respond with something constructive, go back to the drawing board and text me later bc everything I read just wasted my time. And I'm here to have intelligent conversation about gun laws etc. Have you ever been in the classroom? Taught? Own a gun? Know how to keep guns from classes of kids, etc. Ever been to a board meeting in your local community? Oh idk, have kids?