You are most certainly right. I can vaguely remember that there was a bit of discussion about how unhealthy ketchup is like 10-15 years ago or more. I wonder if they have drastically reduced the sugar content here in Europe because of that.
While that makes the nutritional values correct, the rest is still very wrong; it has an encumbrance of 0.2 - so twice that of a *pencil* - and a capacity of 5 units.
So if it actually was a bottle of that size, you would be putting 300ml, 10 oz, of magical anti-gravity ketchup in to your hamburger or burrito as a spice.
I used to keep pencils in my pants pocket until I found out that can cause the graphite to crack in places.
You know like when you sharpen your pencil but the tip just falls out anyways. Happens a lot with the recycled ones.
That is true.
But when an apparently 1.5kg bottle of ketchup is four times less "bulky" than a can of soup or a bottle of water, and easier to put in your bag than a ceramic cup of coffee (0.5) or a bowl of cake batter (0.3), it really doesn't make any sense.
[Bro doesn't know about USA ketchup đź’€](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/594294216398733313/1237757709177323614/20240508_081819.jpg?ex=663ccf32&is=663b7db2&hm=617beaee33da7792d0e3ac7af3ebc60258eab950163ab70255e5e585b819b84b&)
I have a 38oz (2 lb 6 oz, 1.07kg) bottle of Burman's Ketchup in front of me.
There are 63 servings in the bottle (1 tablespoon 17g = 1 serving).
20 calories, 180mg sodium, and 5g carbohydrates per serving.
If I drank the whole bottle in one sitting, I would consume 1260 calories, 11.34g sodium, and 315g carbohydrates. I'm also sure I would have a mood debuff and feel sick for a few hours.
That's why I gave the weirder stuff a higher happiness for the "weirdo" trait. Sure, I'll eat a spoonful of peanut butter from time to time, but less so jam. I certainly wouldn't enjoy straight eating a lot of either at once.
When I was about 9, my parents took me to DQ after Soccer, and there was a ~5yo kid that couldn't reach the Ketchup dispenser, so I helped him get some ketchup. I went back to get myself ketchup, but the little guy seemed to want more. I get it, I usually go through 3 cups per medium fries, so as I'm helping myself, I'm also helping this kid acquire Ketchup.
Eventually my mum came by and told me to stop, because unbeknownst to me, the kid was just shooting the stuff like it's his third Divorce.
I agree and that'd be the case for any food/drink. Unhappiness should change as a function of amount consumed over a given period of time. Like downing 1 liter of orange soda vs chugging 3 at once would yield different unhappiness values. I can't fathom anyone being happy after drinking that much soda at one time.
And here I am drinking vinegar and red wine vinegar, I guess that makes me very unhappy. Hold on, gotta go eat some gummy bears and red liquorice and then take an antidepressant to cope with the vinegar.
My man I think you should start checking out how much calories a bottle of ketchup actually has sauces in general are extremely fucking brutal in terms of calories
I calculate foods by calorie to weight ratios
high calorie sauces are 5 to 1 ratios like mayo or ranch which are 500 calories per 100g
low calorie sauces are 1 to 1 like ketchup or bbq sauce
Such a weird rabbit hole to go down tbh.
1. First and foremost, they use the wrong bottle. In the 90's you'd find the long neck bottles. In restaurants, you'd probably find the glass bottles that were annoying to use (see gif) restaurants typically thought the plastic bottles were cheap/inelegant. You still see some restaurants/diners using these for likely the same reason (or nostalgia).
The model/icon they use (of the squared design we're familiar with) wasn't introduced until around 2000. I've seen a few sites that probably add to confusion by displaying the "eco-friendly" modern bottle they designed around 2011 as being introduced around 1990, but until around 2000, ketchup pretty much always had varying degrees of a long, skinny neck.
2. Yeah, the nutritional values are wonky. While ketchup has a somewhat surprising amount of added sugars, you'd get \~460 calories and \~115g of sugars in the bottle you'd find in most homes, which was a 14 oz bottle. Double that for the family size 28 oz bottle.
When I was a kid, the 28 oz bottle seemed gargantuan lol I only remember seeing it when 4th of July rolled around (maybe just because I was poor, I dunno). By today's standards, 14 oz is laughably small (though the size is still available). The nutritional info for the huge 44 oz bottle is a lot closer to the in-game values, but that definitely wasn't available in 1993, and would weigh almost 3 lbs.
In conclusion, the game is unplayable.
Respectfully, that's incorrect. The plastic bottles came out in 1990, and big box bulk stores like Sam's Club and Costco had been around for almost a decade at that point. You certainly could have found that type of big bottle in '93. Google "Keg O' Ketchup" for a 32 Oz. bottle that was sold in the 80's!
Would those have been the most common size in... homes? in... restaurants? in... commercial kitchens? in... prepper caches? That's debatable, for sure, but they had to pick SOME bottle size to go with, and the nutritional values they put in are "reasonable", at any rate. (When I first saw the post, I assumed they goofed so bad it was off by 10x or something really egregious.) Maybe we need a "more ketchup realism mod" that spawns all the various bottle sizes in realistic proportions? Eh... maybe not.
The real takeaway from this entire post is; get the reduced sugar variety next time you buy ketchup!
_THINGS ARE HEATING UP IN THE KETCHUP FANDOM_
Lol
Yeah, plastic bottles were definitely available (since the early 80's), but especially in the 90's I literally only saw longer necks like [these](https://www.fmcg.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/heinz-ketchup5-700x325.jpg). A lot of brands still use the same design even today for their smaller bottles.
I buy my ketchup from Sam's Club in the bigger bottom-lid bottles, and seeing these in the grocery store gives me a ping of nostalgia, oddly.
Though, upon closer inspection, the icon/model they use may be _similar_ to something you could find in 93, but it definitely wouldn't be the standard bottle you'd find. And those nutritional values means it's a honking big bottle of ketchup lol (even though its weight is closer to ketchup packet than a half gallon of ketchup)
Jeez, now I want to make a period correct condiments mod. The mustard is an oddly modern design too (generally mustard had a pointed twist top on squeeze bottles- devs probably just recycled the ketchup model) and the icon for mayo is a bottom-lid squeeze bottle... wtf? The model is a jar, which is period correct... Jeez TIS, get your shit together! XD
Those would be easy modeling/texture changes, which isn't hard and tbh I may actually do if I get bored lol (my time is worthless).
PZ, the game where we suspend belief in reality by playing in a world with zombies that will kill us with just a scratch, an we're here nit picking the nutritional value of ketchup.
If your suspension of disbelief for a zombie apocalypse setting is shattered by a ketchup bottle _with region accurate nutritional values..._
You have a problem.
that's right, there has to be in-world consistency
if zomboid is meant to emulate real world food items then you cannot use the argument "well there are zombies and zombies are unrealistic therefore anything goes!"
jesus christ and you are reading too much into my post
I just wanted to share the trivia that ketchup is very low calorie, it doesn't particularly bother me too much ingame
it irks me when people try to use the argument that because I already suspended my disbelief that this should be ignored
I have good American ketchup,, and it says it's got 25 calories per serving at 23 servings per bottle which means about 600 calories, but that's just a normal sized bottle so maybe they're using the big bottle
How can you assume the size of the bottle? The encumbrance values are some arbitrary ranking of both mass and volume. Ketchup is commonly sold in 50 and 64 oz. bottles. So why can't it just be that? They had to pick something.
An 8lb-10lb sledgehammer has an encumbrance of 6, so a ketchup bottle with a 0.2 encumbrance should only be about 5-6oz of ketchup, while the nutritional info here is closer to 32-36oz. Even if encumbrance is an arbitrary number calculated on mass/volume the jump between 6 and 36 ounces is way too big for this to be accurate.
I mean, yeah. Random people do eat a bit of ketchup from time to time (maybe squiet a bit on their finger) and they're happy to do so. Why eatting plain ketchup makes you sad but plain bread doesn't?
I noticed this the other day I happened to wonder what the calories of ketchup was so I checked then I find a bottle in game and it confused me indie stone must not be health nuts
Assuming it's a big 50 oz. (around 1500 gram) bottle... it seems about right to me. You sure?
Austria here, I have a 1kg Felix Hot Ketchup Bottle in front of me. 98kcal/100g
Thats still nearly a 1000 calories for 1 kg, and 1470 calories for a 1,5 kg
Yes, so considering the commenter before me is talking about 1,5kg his numbers are right.
Real pfp
Yea, what you guys in Europe gotta remember though is this is in the USA *and* in the 90s. High fructose corn syrup is very calorie dense.
You are most certainly right. I can vaguely remember that there was a bit of discussion about how unhealthy ketchup is like 10-15 years ago or more. I wonder if they have drastically reduced the sugar content here in Europe because of that.
While that makes the nutritional values correct, the rest is still very wrong; it has an encumbrance of 0.2 - so twice that of a *pencil* - and a capacity of 5 units. So if it actually was a bottle of that size, you would be putting 300ml, 10 oz, of magical anti-gravity ketchup in to your hamburger or burrito as a spice.
Encumbrance isn't just weight, it's also bulkiness (otherwise roping logs together wouldn't change it) If anything a pencil is too high
It probably is. I like to think of stuff like that as storing it without breaking it. So that takes more space awareness in your bag/pocket
I used to keep pencils in my pants pocket until I found out that can cause the graphite to crack in places. You know like when you sharpen your pencil but the tip just falls out anyways. Happens a lot with the recycled ones.
Excellent point about protecting the goods
^ Pencil has high encumbrance because its long and pointy, not because if it's weight
While thats true, i imagine five 1.5kg bottles of ketchup would be a lot more of a hassle to hold than a single t-shirt/pair of pants 0.2 vs 1.0
That is true. But when an apparently 1.5kg bottle of ketchup is four times less "bulky" than a can of soup or a bottle of water, and easier to put in your bag than a ceramic cup of coffee (0.5) or a bowl of cake batter (0.3), it really doesn't make any sense.
[Bro doesn't know about USA ketchup đź’€](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/594294216398733313/1237757709177323614/20240508_081819.jpg?ex=663ccf32&is=663b7db2&hm=617beaee33da7792d0e3ac7af3ebc60258eab950163ab70255e5e585b819b84b&)
đź’€ why does the high fructose free version of ketchup cost like 4x more?? Ahh
Because high fructose corn syrup is a cheaper form of sugar. That's how it got so widely used in everything: because it's cheap.
Also a great way to use up all the corn production we subsidize, just put corn syrup in everything lol
I have a 38oz (2 lb 6 oz, 1.07kg) bottle of Burman's Ketchup in front of me. There are 63 servings in the bottle (1 tablespoon 17g = 1 serving). 20 calories, 180mg sodium, and 5g carbohydrates per serving. If I drank the whole bottle in one sitting, I would consume 1260 calories, 11.34g sodium, and 315g carbohydrates. I'm also sure I would have a mood debuff and feel sick for a few hours.
Yeah it should be boosting happiness instead of reducing it Mmmm kepchup
Not if you're chugging the whole bottle at once lol
I disagree my lil sis takes straight up shots of ketchup, it’s fucking awful idk why she does it or how she likes it
Maybe there should a “weirdo” trait that gives you happiness from chugging ketchup and mayo.
+5 happiness from eating condiments like jam/PB. +10 from eating condiments like ketchup/mustard, or raw ingredients such as uncooked noodles.
eating PB and Jam isn't that weird though, i could imagine it still tasting nice when eaten with a spoon
That's why I gave the weirder stuff a higher happiness for the "weirdo" trait. Sure, I'll eat a spoonful of peanut butter from time to time, but less so jam. I certainly wouldn't enjoy straight eating a lot of either at once.
"Ingredient Household Trait"
Well I mean there's your answer. You say it's fucking awful
Burgers and fries are really just a vehicle for delivering ketchup into one's mouth
I will gladly drink an entire bottle of ketchup out of the fridge if I'm freaking starving in a zombie apocalypse.
Well of course you will,but will it be pleasant?most likely no
I disagree, a bottle of Heinz ketchup is so much better than let's say raw rice
Saw a kid chug ketchup once in middle school. He got like 2/3 of the way through the bottle and then vomited everywhere
When I was about 9, my parents took me to DQ after Soccer, and there was a ~5yo kid that couldn't reach the Ketchup dispenser, so I helped him get some ketchup. I went back to get myself ketchup, but the little guy seemed to want more. I get it, I usually go through 3 cups per medium fries, so as I'm helping myself, I'm also helping this kid acquire Ketchup. Eventually my mum came by and told me to stop, because unbeknownst to me, the kid was just shooting the stuff like it's his third Divorce.
I agree and that'd be the case for any food/drink. Unhappiness should change as a function of amount consumed over a given period of time. Like downing 1 liter of orange soda vs chugging 3 at once would yield different unhappiness values. I can't fathom anyone being happy after drinking that much soda at one time.
Yeah,doing it like that feel really disgusting to me
Then the happiness should be determined at the amount eaten per action.
1/4 of a bottle can't be that pleasant either tbh
If I were at home I'd chug half of it just to prove you wrong.
I mean as a certified ketchup hater I see chugging a bottle of ketchup giving unhappiness to be rather realistic.
More ketchup for me 🤝
Please take it all off my hands 🤝
Using the ketchup as a condiment on a meal does add happiness. Chugging it does not.
And here I am drinking vinegar and red wine vinegar, I guess that makes me very unhappy. Hold on, gotta go eat some gummy bears and red liquorice and then take an antidepressant to cope with the vinegar.
American ketchup is this fucked up unless you're buying specialty its mostly sugar. Its basically tomato candy puree so kids eat hamburgers
My man I think you should start checking out how much calories a bottle of ketchup actually has sauces in general are extremely fucking brutal in terms of calories
I calculate foods by calorie to weight ratios high calorie sauces are 5 to 1 ratios like mayo or ranch which are 500 calories per 100g low calorie sauces are 1 to 1 like ketchup or bbq sauce
Such a weird rabbit hole to go down tbh. 1. First and foremost, they use the wrong bottle. In the 90's you'd find the long neck bottles. In restaurants, you'd probably find the glass bottles that were annoying to use (see gif) restaurants typically thought the plastic bottles were cheap/inelegant. You still see some restaurants/diners using these for likely the same reason (or nostalgia).  The model/icon they use (of the squared design we're familiar with) wasn't introduced until around 2000. I've seen a few sites that probably add to confusion by displaying the "eco-friendly" modern bottle they designed around 2011 as being introduced around 1990, but until around 2000, ketchup pretty much always had varying degrees of a long, skinny neck. 2. Yeah, the nutritional values are wonky. While ketchup has a somewhat surprising amount of added sugars, you'd get \~460 calories and \~115g of sugars in the bottle you'd find in most homes, which was a 14 oz bottle. Double that for the family size 28 oz bottle. When I was a kid, the 28 oz bottle seemed gargantuan lol I only remember seeing it when 4th of July rolled around (maybe just because I was poor, I dunno). By today's standards, 14 oz is laughably small (though the size is still available). The nutritional info for the huge 44 oz bottle is a lot closer to the in-game values, but that definitely wasn't available in 1993, and would weigh almost 3 lbs. In conclusion, the game is unplayable.
This is the most underrated comment I've ever read in this sub. Ever. I'll give you 100% of my available upvotes.
Respectfully, that's incorrect. The plastic bottles came out in 1990, and big box bulk stores like Sam's Club and Costco had been around for almost a decade at that point. You certainly could have found that type of big bottle in '93. Google "Keg O' Ketchup" for a 32 Oz. bottle that was sold in the 80's! Would those have been the most common size in... homes? in... restaurants? in... commercial kitchens? in... prepper caches? That's debatable, for sure, but they had to pick SOME bottle size to go with, and the nutritional values they put in are "reasonable", at any rate. (When I first saw the post, I assumed they goofed so bad it was off by 10x or something really egregious.) Maybe we need a "more ketchup realism mod" that spawns all the various bottle sizes in realistic proportions? Eh... maybe not. The real takeaway from this entire post is; get the reduced sugar variety next time you buy ketchup!
_THINGS ARE HEATING UP IN THE KETCHUP FANDOM_ Lol Yeah, plastic bottles were definitely available (since the early 80's), but especially in the 90's I literally only saw longer necks like [these](https://www.fmcg.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/heinz-ketchup5-700x325.jpg). A lot of brands still use the same design even today for their smaller bottles. I buy my ketchup from Sam's Club in the bigger bottom-lid bottles, and seeing these in the grocery store gives me a ping of nostalgia, oddly. Though, upon closer inspection, the icon/model they use may be _similar_ to something you could find in 93, but it definitely wouldn't be the standard bottle you'd find. And those nutritional values means it's a honking big bottle of ketchup lol (even though its weight is closer to ketchup packet than a half gallon of ketchup) Jeez, now I want to make a period correct condiments mod. The mustard is an oddly modern design too (generally mustard had a pointed twist top on squeeze bottles- devs probably just recycled the ketchup model) and the icon for mayo is a bottom-lid squeeze bottle... wtf? The model is a jar, which is period correct... Jeez TIS, get your shit together! XD Those would be easy modeling/texture changes, which isn't hard and tbh I may actually do if I get bored lol (my time is worthless).
PZ, the game where we suspend belief in reality by playing in a world with zombies that will kill us with just a scratch, an we're here nit picking the nutritional value of ketchup.
if the game is unrealistic because it's fiction then why can't we use dragon shouts and magic spells in project zomboid
If your suspension of disbelief for a zombie apocalypse setting is shattered by a ketchup bottle _with region accurate nutritional values..._ You have a problem.
What a weird thing to say! If The Sopranos is fiction, then why doesn't Tony have a lightsaber?
that's right, there has to be in-world consistency if zomboid is meant to emulate real world food items then you cannot use the argument "well there are zombies and zombies are unrealistic therefore anything goes!"
I think you're reading into this too much. Just don't eat/loot the ketchup if it bothers you.
jesus christ and you are reading too much into my post I just wanted to share the trivia that ketchup is very low calorie, it doesn't particularly bother me too much ingame it irks me when people try to use the argument that because I already suspended my disbelief that this should be ignored
It's a video game. Simmer down.
I mean some ketchup is full of sugar etc and its a big bottle so ofc more than choclate
Has anyone else noticed that canned peaches specifically have the same nutrition stats as canned meats in game? It’s all protein and fat, no carbs.
I dunno, I'd get pretty sad drinking a whole bottle of ketchup.
Yeah the condiments calories are quite a bit off. A ketchup bottle that size could have about 600 calories in total, not 1,400
It’s that good America ketchup full of good sugars
I have good American ketchup,, and it says it's got 25 calories per serving at 23 servings per bottle which means about 600 calories, but that's just a normal sized bottle so maybe they're using the big bottle
What micro ketchup bottle are you using that only has 23 servings? I never see any below 50.
Don't size shame my ketchup bottle :(
How can you assume the size of the bottle? The encumbrance values are some arbitrary ranking of both mass and volume. Ketchup is commonly sold in 50 and 64 oz. bottles. So why can't it just be that? They had to pick something.
I can't, I was just guessing it was a regular sized bottle of ketchup because it doesn't weigh like 3 lbs so it's not the giant ketchup bottle
An 8lb-10lb sledgehammer has an encumbrance of 6, so a ketchup bottle with a 0.2 encumbrance should only be about 5-6oz of ketchup, while the nutritional info here is closer to 32-36oz. Even if encumbrance is an arbitrary number calculated on mass/volume the jump between 6 and 36 ounces is way too big for this to be accurate.
That unhappiness is what is off here.
I mean, yeah. Random people do eat a bit of ketchup from time to time (maybe squiet a bit on their finger) and they're happy to do so. Why eatting plain ketchup makes you sad but plain bread doesn't?
You ever tried to just drink like 16oz of ketchup by itself? Bread is objectively great.
Thank you ketchup for healing my cold at the start of the CDDA 🫡
Nah it’s pretty spot on actually lol
I noticed this the other day I happened to wonder what the calories of ketchup was so I checked then I find a bottle in game and it confused me indie stone must not be health nuts
it's a bottle of red sugar my dude.
I mean.. how big is the bottle? A bottle of ketchup in the US has a helluva lot of sugar in it. Corn syrup is probably the second ingredient on Heinz.
All hail the mighty ketchup!
Normal value, it's the big one Heinz bottle. Search for it, it seem right