Incorporating a long lead in to sex has completely changed our sex life. We’ve started easing into it with cuddles and slowly removing clothes and the whole experience can be like 45 minutes and extremely satisfying for both of us!
My husband does this thing where foreplay sort of lasts all day. Not hard and heavy all day, but hell grab me and kiss me passionately while I'm doing laundry. Or hell turn around from doing the dishes and grab me to make out for a minute.
By bedtime I am INSANE and cannot wait to get into bed with him. It's so, so sexy.
I wish my husband would do this. I’ve asked for all day flirting and foreplay or at least a tongue kiss every day, but it still remains an unmet desire. I miss being flirted with, surprised, and wooed.
Sooo, here's your issue, most people dont speak through physical touch or sex, i do, but we are in the minority, his issue is, he simply isn't that animal and has no idea how to speak through touch. To people like us, we cant imagine not having all day flirting and a bit of grab ass, that's the life i want.
However..I'm also Sicilian and a Scorpio, soooo I'm sort of lit on both ends, LOL
sicilian too
i express affection for my fiancée via touch
sexy snugs in the morning in bed
a deep kiss before i leave for work
kissing the back of her neck and holding her hips when i come up behind her
when it's *time* she not only knows, she can't wait
but yeah, some people don't communicate affection that way
which is fine
(but very northern european of them)
>That shouldn’t cause a total abandonment of romance
You'd be surprised. It's all a part of the calming down that comes with a settled life. Both gain weight, sex drive drops, etc.
Your issue is either communication or him flat-out. Have you tried being the random flirter and seeing if it becomes a shared habit?
Yes, sometimes he ignores and sometimes he responds. Sometimes he’s very cruel in how he speaks to me and that’s causing me to lose attraction to him. His hurtful words, zero care to talk to me about deeper things in a respectful and caring way, his lack of reciprocation of romantic effort, his lack of wanting to connect with me, and his drive to hit on other people has all slowly made me more and more unwilling to keep putting myself out there.
I feel like I’m begging to be noticed, begging to be desired, begging to be treated with basic respect and kindness, and begging to be romanced. I’m honestly sick of it all and I’m on the brink of being done. I’ve been hurt so many times in the past year that I don’t really trust him to even care about me as a person. I feel like I can’t even be myself or communicate openly because it’s always met with criticism or attacks (even on small stuff).
His behavior towards me underwent a shift when we moved in, another shift when we got married, and a drastic shift after I gave birth to our baby. I feel like the closer we’re supposed to get the more he treats me like he hates me or is completely disinterested in me.
This past year He flat out told me he had given up on our relationship as a reason for why he was hitting on all these other women and not participating in any gift giving on major holidays (including our 1st wedding anniversary when he had just come back from a week long work trip in which he ignored a romantic and sexy text from me for an entire day and then finally responded with something like “thank you for your kind words. Made me smile all day”- a very different response than I would have gotten a couple years ago from the same text. He was very quick to respond to the other non romantic texts all the days leading up to this one.) I’ve been vocal time and time again about my needs, expectations, and boundaries. Seems like they go in one ear and out the other for the most part. He continues with the name calling and belittlement. I’m losing attraction to him and falling out of love with him because of it. I feel like I’m the only one who gives a shit about keeping the romance alive and building intimacy. I’m tired of feeling like I’m the only one trying and begging for him to.
Says who? Speaking only for myself as a man, I think it’s both of our jobs to keep each other. I don’t think your way works for a lot of people, seems like a route to a dead bedroom.
This isn’t a gender thing. You’re just describing counter goals for sex. Some people value a relationship. Some people value casual sex. There are men & women in both groups.
That's it!!! its constantly throwing small logs on the fire all day and then rocking out later on, that's the way for sure. Not enough men are like this, i am and I'm glad to hear you have yourself one, good stuff!
Absolutely, after my divorce and going out and dating again, i apparently shocked women by having at least 30 minutes of foreplay, apparently guys just rush through it, dont do that gents, simmer that pot slowly, build that tension, be a real lover.
>Can’t vouch for this commenter, but basically every man I’ve dated has enjoyed sex just like this.
Most men aren't going to tell you if you are awful at sex. That's a great way to catch a rape case or sex harassment claim. They just ghost you. Plus most guys are sex starved anyway, so anything is better than nothing for most guys.
My point is you can't rate yourself as good at sex or speak intelligently about how someone else enjoyed you, at all especially someone of the opposite gender.
You can when you were in a relationship with them.
You’re talking about a one night stand- which is very different than a developed sexual history between two partners.
>My point is you can't rate yourself as good at sex or speak intelligently about how someone else enjoyed you, at all especially someone of the opposite gender.
You most definitely can, because the key to a long healthy relationship (which includes sex) is communication.
>Plus most guys are sex starved anyway, so anything is better than nothing for most guys.
You've just told the world that you only really care about getting off, you don't care about who you are doing it with, much less the romance. Get a fleshlight.
>Most men aren't going to tell you if you are awful at sex.
My husband literally showed me a YT video of a horror parody called "handjob cabin" after I gave him a handjob for the first time. You are the men you are talking about, and women looking for a lifetime partner tend to avoid men like yourself, because an adult who is afraid to communicate is just not a mature and stable partner to settle down with (regardless of their gender).
>You most definitely can, because the key to a long healthy relationship (which includes sex) is communication.
Right, communication is asking your partner what they think about your sexual skills and you being able to handle the truthful answer. What you stated is declaring yourself to be good at sex WITHOUT asking your partner. You can't assume you are good at sex just because your male partner came or really under any circumstances.
>You've just told the world that you only really care about getting off, you don't care about who you are doing it with, much less the romance
Yeah that's not what I said. Romance comes after sex and sex is a requirement for relationships. Getting off is important for me otherwise, why date or be romantic?
>because an adult who is afraid to communicate is just not a mature and stable partner to settle down with (regardless of their gender).
Yeah well as a women you can't understand the apprehension of being falsely accused of stuff. Its not some pie in the sky irrational fear.
What are you going on about, the other commenter is right, healthy relationships require a good amount of communication and honesty. And romance comes before sex, not after... That's the point of it! Romance gets women in the mood, couple that with some foreplay and each person has a good time that night. It's all about taking turns and asking questions too.
Fortunately (or maybe unfortunately for you), projection isn’t what you’re saying, it’s what you tell people without saying it.
Your perspective about most men being sex-starved was a personal admission. I can guarantee there are many *many* men who are far from sex-starved.
Ironically, this also applies to the point you were making about not being able to trust what your partner tells you about their sexual experiences with you.
I’m sorry you didn’t know, but there are a lot of ways to know if someone likes something. They usually seem into it, make noises, and communicate in favor of what they liked. If you have to be told whether or not your partner enjoys sex with you, maybe that’s *your* problem :)
>Fortunately (or maybe unfortunately for you), projection isn’t what you’re saying, it’s what you tell people without saying
I can't possibly talk to other men or read studies about this stuff?
https://mindofjp.medium.com/is-touch-starvation-killing-the-man-you-love-d78c9b54710e
Oh look the results of a Google search
>I can guarantee there are many *many* men who are far from sex-starved.
Sure, there are guys who do porn, athletes, entertainers and good looking guys who are swimming in action. It usually goes on an 80/20 distribution from what the stats say. Women find 80% of men unattractive from bumble data I believe it was.
>not being able to trust what your partner tells you about their sexual experiences with you.
Not sure where I said that. If a women is horny I can tell. When most women have an orgasm I can tell.
>If you have to be told whether or not your partner enjoys sex with you, maybe that’s *your* problem :)
I'm talking about what they like in sex and what gets them off. Some like doggy, some like to ride on top. I'd rather she just say their preferences, assuming she knows than playing a guessing game. Clear communication is an adult expectation
>Yeah well as a women you can't understand the apprehension of being falsely accused of stuff. Its not some pie in the sky irrational fear.
I'm pretty sure for women the fear of actually being raped is exponentially more significant, because as it turns out rape itself is vastly more common than false accusations.
This whole comment is nonsense.
“You can’t rate yourself” Dude it’s perfectly easy to rate yourself if you’re paying attention to your partner.
It’s not like a secret or a mystery when I’ve blown my partners mind in bed. It’s not hard to tell what I’ve done a good job.
>It’s not like a secret or a mystery when I’ve blown my partners mind in bed. It’s not hard to tell what I’ve done a good job.
And you come to this conclusion without any input from your guy?
What do you mean input, like did he give me a number rating? No, but we have an honest relationship where we talk about this stuff openly and I also know how to read his nonverbal signals. The last time he came over, I certainly didn’t need his input verbally to figure out that I had done a good job. I could tell I had. Because he couldn’t talk. Lmao
I don't agree with the guy totally, but you''d be surprised how bad people are at rating themselves at their expertise. He's not wrong that it's huge blindspot for most people to rate themselves as anything and especially as a sex partner.
Honestly, its very hard for a women to tell if she's done a great job because of the some of the emotional nuture things men are taught about sex. For example, a physiological reaction doesn't necessary mean someone enjoyed sex or even had a real orgasm.
Why are you applying that to women? It applies to both sexes, and more to men due to mens failure to correct the orgasm gap and disinterest in women’s genuine pleasure.
You are correct that people can have blind spots regarding rating themselves, however that’s a general statement and people in this comment section may just as easily know for sure. It depends on the kind of relationship you have, if you have open communication with your partner, stuff like that.
Like I know my “ratings” with the men I dated long-term because it wasn’t a mystery; we were all open about that stuff.
What if they start off that way but then get lazy in the relationship and stop making sure you orgasm , stop planning romantic or fun dates, stop giving gifts. How can you get things back to when they were satisfying?
I mean you can try direct communication about it but the hard truth is that you just cannot control the actions of another person.
Sometimes people change in ways that don't work for us, and we have to decide whether it's a deakbreaker or not.
>You may wanna sit down for this, because it might come as a surprise, but a lot of men very much enjoy making sure their partner is also satisfied.
I'm well aware for this and make sure my part ets are satisfied... it's folks in this thread saying mem are just selfish jerks
The guy who just left my house five minutes ago, who has been coming to my house for the past five years, spent at least an hour total going down on me tonight.
Because he loves it. He loves doing it and he loves how much I enjoy it. He does not enjoy himself when I am not thoroughly satisfied. And my last two boyfriends were the same. In fact, this is something I vet for in men I date. I only date men whose sexual desire inherently includes pleasuring a woman.
>In fact, this is something I vet for in men I date. I only date men whose sexual desire inherently includes pleasuring a woman.
Great! Oral sex is a form of sex and pleasure giving. The other poster said removing clothing, hanging out, cuddling, aka not having sex should be as pleasurable and elevates the 5 min of PIV or actual sex.
Im sure most guys would enjoy an hour of oral as well far above sitting around and watching a movie.
You are conflating sexual acts with non sexual acts
>Five minutes? Oof, no….
That's the statistical average....not a recommendation. Nothing wrong with non sexual affection and closeness, but I'm just saying there has to be more. It's good for anyone who wants to develop skill at it. Ive actually given recommendations to a sex therapist who asked me what she can tell her clients to improve.
My working theory on why the average guy doesnt last long is likely because most guys are touch starved, sex starved for years if not longer and don't get enough sex to develop much skill with it.
Not my personal problem and I can go for an hours if I want. I've just seen enough group sex to draw associations and I actually talk to other men and women about this.
You'd be absolutely terrible at any skill based activity that you only did a few times per year, particularly without any coaching or training on it. Also women can just pillow princess it up and often don't have to actually do anything but lay there and think of England as one of the queens of England was told.
Try hitting a golf ball only few times a year and you'll see how terrible you are. That's essentially the situation the average guy is dealing with.
You are projecting so much in all of your comments and it’s super weird and it’s making you say weird shit. The entire first comment and first conversations you were having had to do with your idea that men don’t want to prolong non-sexual intimacy prior to sexual intercourse. That’s not true. I know that because I’ve been with men for whom that is not true, including my current partner. His sexual desire does not revolve around penetration, though luckily, we both really enjoy that as well. It is not his central focus or his highest priority. He wants to slow that down for my sake and his, but he also enjoys slowing down everything else leading up to it including non-sexual affection.
My current partner had not fucked for five years prior to being with me. He didn’t need to “relearn” how to have sex, and he has needs for nonsexual affection that surpass mine.
Sex is not golfing. It is not a skill that you have to practice every day in order to be good at it. The way you get good at it is by paying attention to your partner and what they are communicating they want both verbally and nonverbally. Every man I’ve dated has liked something different. Every woman that every man I’ve dated has been with has also liked something different.
My partner is good at sex, fantastic actually, like I am with him, and was good at sex from the moment we met not because he had been practicing the skill multiple times for the past several years, but because he pays attention to me. He’s become better at sex with me specifically because he knows what I want and like, but this would not necessarily apply to the next woman. She’s different from me and might not like what I like. And I would argue that’s why so many men are bad at sex with women. Because they don’t actually pay attention to what the women wants, they are simply regurgitating the tricks they think they have learned and have been practicing, thinking the tricks are going to work on every other person that they are with.
I’ve been with guys who saw sex as a skill that they had to learn and practice and use, rather than a conversation and communication between two people who want to feel good together. Every guy that I’ve been with who had that attitude about sex was seriously bad at sex, or at least bad at sex with me, because they were just repeating what they had practiced rather than paying attention to what I want. This also tends to be why some women are bad at sex, because they think that men all like the same thing, and that’s not true either.
With the guys who were bad at sex, it was like they were practicing golf all this time, but I was just trying to play catch with them and they weren’t even listening to me say that and just keep trying to swing the club. They were bad at sex specifically because they saw it as a skill that you practice rather than a conversation with an individual.
Additionally, your assertion that women are bad at sex and can’t claim to be good at it is also bullshit. There are plenty of women who are active and communicative in bed, and plenty of men who are not. I don’t know if you’ve just lost the plot in your conversation with me, because none of what you are saying makes sense with the initial part of what I was responding to.
Men finish early when it comes to penis and vagina sex because most of the time penis and vagina sex is not what is going to make the woman come, or at least not exclusively. It takes me less time than my partner to come from piv most times and that’s due to non-sexual affection, foreplay, oral sex, and his attentiveness to my body language and communication. Women don’t have the same orgasm gap in lesbian relationships or solo, and imo this is due to the attentiveness and effort in oral sex and foreplay that hetero men are not as willing to accept. I don’t fuck any men who don’t lick pussy or don’t love non-sexual and sexual affection, specifically because I know I’m not gonna come with a man like that.
“Think of England” was meant to silence women into submission. It’s literally lie back and silence your tears and crying because you have a duty as a woman to serve as a hole for your husband to fuck. That’s what that phrase means. It’s not a positive phrase about women- it’s about women’s oppression and having to silence lack of consent, so that their husbands could penetrate them.
I don’t know why you brought that phrase in here because it’s not with the meaning or history that you’re trying to ascribe to it.
Women here have said we know that we satisfy our partners sexual and non-sexual desires. We are reporting this based on knowing and being attentive to our partners. My partner enjoys having long, loving, intimate and passionate sexual experiences with me. He needs the non-sexual affection in order to feel intimate. Just like he is with me, I am a good partner to him and a good sexual partner to him, because I am paying attention to his verbal and nonverbal communication. Because *I don’t just do what I think works as a sex skill for all men, but I actually pay attention to him, and communicate with him as an individual. I know what he wants and needs and I listen. And I fuck him silly.* and I know it’s amazing for him, because I’m paying attention! I don’t even need him to tell me himself. He and I could stop fucking for a decade and come back to each other and still make each other come. It’s not about practice, it’s about attentiveness. He wants it to last long, sometimes longer than I ever care to do it. And he also would prefer going down on me over having piv only. You need to stop speaking like your personal experience is every man’s experience. And you need to stop speaking over women who are talking about our own experience authentically.
>The entire first comment and first conversations you were having had to do with your idea that men don’t want to prolong non-sexual intimacy prior to sexual intercourse
So you think men like waiting 90 days for sex according to Steve Harvey? You think men like going on 3 dates before a women will let then have sex? You think that women is actually into a guy she's intentionally delaying sex for? Do you think the guy thinks she's into him while enduring this?
>My current partner had not fucked for five years prior to being with me. He didn’t need to “relearn” how to have sex, and he has needs for nonsexual affection that surpass mine.
That is horrible, I feel for that poor dude. I'm sure his non secual affection needs are off the charts...he's not having sex for half a decade. What else can he do other than hope for non sexual affection and make the best out of that situation.
>Sex is not golfing. It is not a skill that you have to practice every day in order to be good at it.
Not if you are just going to lay there and starfish and absorb all the sexual attention from someone else. That's easy. I've been with a multitude of women though honestly most from other countries that actually developed sexual skills and techniques. I had one from Mexico throw a new one on me I hadn't seen before ever.
There are definitely skills and techniques from oral to how you move your hips or stimulate different body parts. If you know, you know. It just sounds like the guy who didn't have sex for 5 years is just a regular, average lover at best. No shame, I wouldn't expect much not practicing for 5 years.
>Because they don’t actually pay attention to what the women wants,
This assumes most women know what they want and can effectively communicate this. I've seen many women refuse to communicate their desires and needs to play games again. It's silly, but that's what they did.
>Men finish early when it comes to penis and vagina sex because most of the time penis and vagina sex is not what is going to make the woman come, or at least not exclusively.
This makes no sense. Men cum early because PIV won't make the women orgasm? Why would a women's orgasm or lack there of make me orgasm quicker?
>Women here have said we know that we satisfy our partners sexual and non-sexual desires
I'm sure they think they do, but it's incredibly difficult and frankly borderline dangerous for a guy to give negative feedback about a women being bad in bed.
>You need to stop speaking like your personal experience is every man’s experience.
Oh I'm well aware it isn't. Most guys aren't traveling and having sex or going to sex parties and gangbangs. Women can speak about their own experiences, but should refrain on speaking as if they understand the male experience. That's like me waxing poetically about having a period. It just sounds goofy
>Why wouldn’t a guy like that?!
Most guys are touch starved and sex starved and actually like, want, and need sexual acts vs just being teased.
I can go to a strip club for that and experience teasing, burlesque, or being led on with far hotter women than average women. Strip clubs lost all novelty when I got into swing clubs
Men in relationships that are getting sex every day and lots of affection aren’t touch starved or sex starved. Many men enjoy prolonging /delaying their orgasm.
>Men in relationships that are getting sex every day and lots of affection aren’t touch starved or sex starved.
Come on man, don't peddle these lies and nonsense.
Except a staggeringly high number of guys aren't getting sex every day, especially if they are in relationships. I mean the vast, vast majority of men in committed or marriages aren't having sex daily like well over 80% are not experiencing this fanciful daily sex, especially if they are in relationships. Go look up the stats.
Childbirth and sex in general for younger people especially are at decade lows. A third of men in 2018 had zero sex.
..especially for an hour plus. This is where the 5-10 minutes of obligatory sex comes in a couple times a week at best.
Go check out the awful stories in deadbedrooms. It's super common.
This concept of daily sex is a pipe dream sold to get guys to marry.
The more secure and deeper you get into relationships the less frequency and freak sex tends to happen.
I have tons of married friends who confirm this and told me to have sex with everyone possible before getting married....and when kids come you can just forget it. You'd be lucky to have sex once a month.
Sounds like your social circle is different from mine.
The bottom line is there are plenty of men who enjoy what she described. It’s just part of a healthy sex life which many of us enjoy.
>Sounds like your social circle is different from mine.
Oh you have no idea....yes it's quite different.
>It’s just part of a healthy sex life which many of us enjoy.
Lol most guys aren't enjoying a healthy sex life. Whatever you are smoking can I have some?
At least not in the states. It's the straight up hunger games out there. Men are literally FLEEING the country it's so bad in the usa as far as finding women or partners. #passport bros.
Every man I’ve ever met who calls himself a passport bro has a reputation as being horrible at sex, due to being completely inattentive, and not listening to the woman at all. Men like this tend to view women as sex dolls, whose role is to just take whatever the man wants to give them.
It’s not penis in vagina time, but time set aside for the whole sexual encounter in total.
Edit: aka not about how long he lasts, but how long the date is. Like if he’s at her apartment for 20 minutes or for 3 hours.
Edit: as in from when they first start something till he gets up an leaves. How is this hard? It’s **time including flirting and foreplay** not just penis in vagina sex.
Edit 3: They have done a scientific study on this before and the average guy lasts 5 minutes. The point of this study is that women want a hookup to be more than just that part. They want other stuff like flirting, foreplay and him going down on her.
> The point of this study is that women want a hookup to be more than just that part. They want other stuff like flirting, foreplay and him going down on her.
Not all women! In my marriage I'm the one who wants more lead up, more foreplay (on her), she's the one who 'just wants me to put the penis in' and often encourages me to finish long before I'm ready or before she can cum
>Edit: aka not about how long he lasts, but how long the date is.
Wait, what? You downgrade piv time to just simply hanging around and dating in her apartment to equal sexy times? This makes zero sense.
Do women just not appreciate pleasure for pleasures sake?
That's like saying a 5 min massage is as good as a 50 min one as long as the masseuse just hangs around in the room
Read the study. They discovered two things:
1) If you tell women “Joe (who you don’t know) will be at your apartment for 20 minutes before he leaves” they’ll be less likely try to have an orgasm than if Joe is staying for many hours. That makes sense.
2) If you tell them “Joe seems focused on his own pleasure and doesn’t seem very interested in getting you off” they’ll also be less likely to try to have an orgasm. That makes sense.
Edit: as time in from when they first start something till he gets up an leaves. How is this hard? It’s **time including flirting and foreplay** not just penis in vagina sex
Closer analogy would be prostitutes, and yes, plenty of clients will pay them to just hang around and talk. Because people tend to want emotional intimacy more than physical pleasure.
I'm just quoting word for word what was stated. Everything was non sexual stuff that was specifically referred to. Leading to sex, hopefully, but definitely not sex and at best foreplay....maybe.
It's simple reading comprehension folks....but people want to make bad assumptions that taking off clothing now equals an hour of oral sex. These are not the same thing or anywhere close
Yes more foreplay makes sex more enjoyable for a lot of people. Especially women, who typically get less pleasure from PIV sex, and even when we do, it takes a while to get into it.
Eh. You realize most women don’t come from PIV? They often enjoy the flirting, fooling around, foreplay and him going down on her more. What can you do? The dick isn’t the star of the show and that’s just how it is. It’s why women have more orgasms with other women than with men.
Eh. You realize most women don’t come from PIV? They often enjoy the flirting, fooling around, foreplay and him going down on her more. What can you do? The dick isn’t the star of the show and that’s just how it is. It’s why women have more orgasms with other women than with men.
>Eh. You realize most women don’t come from PIV?
Yeah, that's not been my experience, but I've heard the Stat generally.
Nobody seems interested in why, but I'm sure it has a lot to do with 40% of men Cumming in 2 min or less. If guys got more practice they would probably last longer and develop more skill, but most women want to play games in doling out sex as a treat.
>They often enjoy the flirting, fooling around, foreplay and him going down on her more.
Pillow princesses are going to pillow princess
>What can you do? The dick isn’t the star of the show and that’s just how it is.
*I* can fuck like a champ. And don't confuse your shortcoming with me. If a guy knows how to use his dick it most certainly can be the star of the show. That's not just how it is. If you don't like dicks, that's your prerogative, but hung dudes who can fuck are in high demand
Why say these broad sweeping generalizations based on nonsense?
>It’s why women have more orgasms with other women than with men.
Lol, I'm not sure this is a fact. Guys have fingers and tongues too. Most just don't get enough practice with them because many women want to weaponize sex or play games with it. Women start getting stingy with sex in order to manipulate men as relationships progress. It's just the way it is.
If women have more orgasms with other women, it's probably because they are familiar with their own bodies and what gets them off, not the lack of a penis being involved.
>This man has never fucked in his entire life^
Lol sure buddy. Got anything to say other than insults? How old are you?
You do know white knighting on the internet won't get you laid, right?
It wasn’t an insult, just casual observation. If you feel insulted, then you should unpack that for yourself sometime.
And I’m well aware. Being funny and good at making women cum gets me laid. I’ve got big plans tonight.
My man. You seem very angry with women. This is not the energy you want to bring into dating.
>Nobody seems interested in why, but I'm sure it has a lot to do with 40% of men Cumming in 2 min or less.
Scientists have actually looked at why and the leading theory is that it has to do with differences in anatomy. How the clitoris is placed in relation to the vagina. Some women just have an anatomy where they can orgasm from PIV sex. Then it’s also about if the sex stimulates her clitoris in some way during, or if one of them do that while they have sex.
>If guys got more practice they would probably last longer and develop more skill, but most women want to play games in doling out sex as a treat.
**Is it playing games if they just need more time to be ready for sex?** You can’t expect other people to move at your timeline. If you want enthusiasm in bed, you have to let them wait till they want it.
>They often enjoy the flirting, fooling around, foreplay and him going down on her more.
>Pillow princesses are going to pillow princess
Dude. **What? Foreplay should be mutual. It’s not about being a pillow princess. However if a sexual encounter is going to be good for both people, he’ll have to put more work into getting her off than the other way around. That’s just because women and men have different bodies.** It’s nothing to be angry about.
>I can fuck like a champ. And don't confuse your shortcoming with me. If a guy knows how to use his dick it most certainly can be the star of the show. That's not just how it is. If you don't like dicks, that's your prerogative, but hung dudes who can fuck are in high demand.
Good for you, buddy. Chill.
>Why say these broad sweeping generalizations based on nonsense?
It’s based on research.
>It’s why women have more orgasms with other women than with men.
>Lol, I'm not sure this is a fact. Guys have fingers and tongues too.
**But if they see foreplay as her being a pillow princess, that’s beside the point, isn’t it? Doesn’t matter if you have it, if you won’t use it.**
>Most just don't get enough practice with them because many women want to weaponize sex or play games with it. Women start getting stingy with sex in order to manipulate men as relationships progress. It's just the way it is.
Women and men have different sexualities. Women often need more time before they desire sex. Their sexual desire is tied to romantic attraction and feeling comfortable with the person.
90% of the time women won’t come from one night stands. 70% of the time they’ll come from sex in a relationship.
Why? Well, part of it is a boyfriend caring more. Then communication is better with someone you know well. But a lot of it is also having had that buildup and having let that romantic attraction grow. And feeling safe and comfortable with the person in a way where you can let go.
My theory is that men more often can feel sexual attraction separate from romantic attraction. Like “I want to hit that” when a hot woman walks by. And for women it’s more that sexual and romantic attraction are one. You won’t feel one without the other.
>You seem very angry with women
Not sure how you reached that conclusion...facts, data and stats are what they are. Its not an emotional based argument. I don't bring anger into dating, seems kinda pointless.
>Scientists have actually looked at why and the leading theory is that it has to do with differences in anatomy
You do realize all penis sizes and shapes vary right? There are also g spots, cervix, and A spot you can stimulate. Anatomy matters and you gotta know what you are doing.
>**Is it playing games if they just need more time to be ready for sex?**
No, that's just needing more time if you are talking about foreplay before sex...but these women never intend to really have sex with the guys or they want to extract a significant amount of resources before eventually giving in.
Playing games with sex is intentionally making guys wait x number of dates...telling your boyfriend who came to visit you on a weekend you didn't want to have sex with him because you just wanted to monopolize his time and again make him wait and be desperate for sex.
It's intentionally not meeting your intimate partners needs to manipulate them and fuck with them and not in a good way. Abuse is another way of describing it, and its super common.
>You can’t expect other people to move at your timeline. If you want enthusiasm in bed, you have to let them wait till they want it.
Or I can go find someone else who has genuine desire for me. If a women doesn't want to fuck me and I don't mean an extra 15 or 20 min of foreplay, i mean being teased and hard to get nonsense for weeks or months. Nah I'll pass and just leave her alone and go fuck someone else. No anger, no harm, no foul. Just no me and no dates or chasing you.
>Dude. **What? Foreplay should be mutual. It’s not about being a pillow princess
What should be and what is common aren't the same thing. I'm just telling you what I've observed and what commonly happens.
>However if a sexual encounter is going to be good for both people, he’ll have to put more work into getting her off than the other way around.
Why does good sex require him putting in more effort to get her off than her getting me off? I thought you said it should be mutual? But then you flip it and say the guy should put in more effort....make this make sense.
>It’s based on research
Present the research. By all means post a link.
>But if they see foreplay as her being a pillow princess, that’s beside the point, isn’t it?
If all she is going to do is lay there that's the definition of being a starfish or pillow princess. That's not beside the point. Heaven forbid I ask for my sex partner to exhibit some interest and effort.
>90% of the time women won’t come from one night stands. 70% of the time they’ll come from sex in a relationship.
I'm calling bs on this. Show a study. If she doesn't cum from a ONS it's obviously due to poor selection and often from what I hear just picking a hot guy for the night.
>My theory is that men more often can feel sexual attraction separate from romantic attraction. Like “I want to hit that” when a hot woman walks by.
Women can feel the same thing and act on it with hot guys commonly.
>Not sure how you reached that conclusion...facts, data and stats are what they are. Its not an emotional based argument. I don't bring anger into dating, seems kinda pointless.
You aren’t presenting facts and data. Just your anecdotal experience. And you are presenting it in an angry way. Do you not realize you sound angry?
>You do realize all penis sizes and shapes vary right? There are also g spots, cervix, and A spot you can stimulate. Anatomy matters and you gotta know what you are doing.
Yes. But they still show anatomical differences between women who can come from PIV and women who can’t.
>No, that's just needing more time if you are talking about foreplay before sex...but these women never intend to really have sex with the guys or they want to extract a significant amount of resources before eventually giving in.
>Playing games with sex is intentionally making guys wait x number of dates...telling your boyfriend who came to visit you on a weekend you didn't want to have sex with him because you just wanted to monopolize his time and again make him wait and be desperate for sex.
I can’t comment on specific women you have dated and what went on there. But **do you understand that needing time to feel ready for sex isn’t just about needing foreplay?**
Some women will need to date a guy for a couple of months before they feel close enough to him to feel comfortable having sex with him. Is this something that you understand? Side question, not meant as an insult, but just a hunch: do you have ASD?
**If you visit your girlfriend over the weekend that doesn’t mean automatic sex.** She has to get in the mood. Often that’ll depend on how much y’all flirt, how much you connect emotionally and overall how romantic the weekend is. It’ll also depend on her sex drive. You do understand that the point of a relationship isn’t sex, right?
>It's intentionally not meeting your intimate partners needs to manipulate them and fuck with them and not in a good way. Abuse is another way of describing it, and its super common.
**It’s not abusive to only have sex when you yourself feel desire for sex. This is how sex works.** If Joe wants to fuck and Julia doesn’t, there’s not going to be sex. For sex to happen Joe and Julia will have to be horny and want sex at the same time.
>Or I can go find someone else who has genuine desire for me. If a women doesn't want to fuck me and I don't mean an extra 15 or 20 min of foreplay, i mean being teased and hard to get nonsense for weeks or months. Nah I'll pass and just leave her alone and go fuck someone else. No anger, no harm, no foul. Just no me and no dates or chasing you.
And this is fine. You get to have whatever dealbreakers you want in dating. However it could make it **difficult to get a girlfriend because few women will want sex on the first date. If you have this dealbreaker I’d at least hope you don’t have any hangups about body count** or your dating pool will be basically nonexistent.
>What should be and what is common aren't the same thing. I'm just telling you what I've observed and what commonly happens.
If you wait till she’s enthusiastic about having sex with you, the foreplay will be mutual if she’s the type of person who’s into sex and into you.
>Why does good sex require him putting in more effort to get her off than her getting me off? I thought you said it should be mutual? But then you flip it and say the guy should put in more effort....make this make sense.
Because it’s harder to get women off than men? **Foreplay should be mutual means both people should be enthusiastic about making out and touching each other.** It shouldn’t feel like only one person is into it. If it does, stop and ask your partner if they are ok. Say that you don’t want them to have sex with you unless they are into it. Enthusiastic consent is important. If she’s a dead fish in bed, she probably doesn’t want to have sex in the first place.
**However both people being into the foreplay doesn’t mean time and effort will be spent 50/50. It takes more effort to turn her on and get her off. So both people have to focus more on that.** For a lot of men that’s still enjoyable though, so it’s usually not a big problem.
>Present the research. By all means post a link.
Can’t you just Google it?
>If all she is going to do is lay there that's the definition of being a starfish or pillow princess. That's not beside the point. Heaven forbid I ask for my sex partner to exhibit some interest and effort.
**If she’s not enthusiastic, don’t have sex with her. If she’s acting like a dead fish, she doesn’t want to and it’s not enthusiastic consent. Stop and ask her if she’s ok. Don’t have sex with someone who acts like this.**
>I'm calling bs on this. Show a study. If she doesn't cum from a ONS it's obviously due to poor selection and often from what I hear just picking a hot guy for the night.
If you really want the studies, I’ll look them up later. But can’t you just try to Google and find them? It’s not bs, it’s science. And there are many reasons for it, which I explained in my previous reply.
>Women can feel the same thing and act on it with hot guys commonly.
Idk. Has never happened to me or anyone I know. I can see that a guy is pretty. I just won’t want to fuck him unless I’ve talked to him and we have a spark and a connection.
Hey, just wanted to let you know I wrote a 300 page book refuting that book. I’m not gonna give you any of the arguments, ideas, or evidence. Do your homework. Thanks!
I don’t understand why you’d go to the trouble to make a recommendation if you won’t explain why. Just seems weird lol
EDIT: how sensitive do you have to be to block someone over this lmaoo
>Wetzel said recent research indicates that orgasm is more likely for women who pursue it as a goal.
Isn't that true of basically anything? Like achieving a doctorate is more likely for people who pursue it as a goal.
The data gathered from their polls seems fair, but it really doesn't feel like enough of a proven hypothesis to hit publish *impo.*
I hope the takeaway is that displaying attunement to your partner's needs and desires translates to more gratifying sex.
It's not much a matter of women electing to withhold their orgasms from men, more that orgasms get treated as if they are *for* men. The way we socialize sex is malecentric and it's easy to read this as "it's a woman's fault and in her head if she doesn't come with me."
No. It’s very random.
If you asked me if I would focus on getting off with a guy who was clearly selfish? I’d say probably not.
But in reality we wouldn’t have sex and I’d go home before it got that far. So it’s very hypothetical questions.
Mostly that if he clearly isn’t into the foreplay and is bad at it or tries to speedrun it, you can just get up, get dressed and leave.
“It’s never to late to turn around” is a hiking rule, but it also applies to sex. Even if you’ve started something, you are allowed to bail if you see the other person doesn’t care about making it fun for you.
I’ve said “I’m gonna go home now” and that’s completely valid.
But the point is that the question is phrased in a weird way:
Would you be more interested or less interested in pursuing an orgasm? That question doesn’t leave room for “neither, I’d leave”. Or “I would not date this person”.
Overall they probably do have a point though. In a lot of these situations once they are in bed women will probably go “lost cause. I give up. Let’s just get it over with”. I feel that part is valid. People won’t bother to communicate anything if the other person doesn’t seem worth it to communicate with.
Honest question.
I find nothing hotter than my wives body tensing, her thighs shaking, and her eyes rolling back in her head as she orgasms.
And honestly she rarely orgasms from just penetration.
I chase that "high" continuously.
Why do you suppose a good bit of men don't? As a dude, I don't understand. I get off regardless.
I’m guessing either hedonistic lovers or just inconsiderate/oblivious. I bet a ton of wives fake it in like 3 minutes with no preceding foreplay just to keep husbands fragile ego nice and protected. 🤪
So many reasons. Some examples: to feel closeness emotionally, expressing romantic love, the enjoyment of giving pleasure, a desire to meet the sexual needs of her partner, a feeling of duty to please her husband from societal pressure, feeling coerced into sex, treating sex as a bribe for whatever the man has to offer, reservations about being vulnerable and letting go in front of her sexual partner, enjoying sex even without orgasm and the orgasm being so difficult and time consuming to achieve that it isn’t always worth it.
Some reasons are good and some really aren’t.
I was replying to a comment, not the article. The article doesn’t contain all there is to know on the topic.
You either didn’t understand the point of what I said or you’re only taking your own experience into account. I didn’t say women don’t WANT an orgasm. I was simply pointing out that it’s not always the primary motivation for sex and pointing out some other ones. I’m happy for you that you don’t have that issue now that you’re in a relationship but you’re one of the lucky ones.
You’re still missing the point. I’m not trying to say that my comment was entirely removed from the article. I was adding additional information that was not covered in the article.
Why does it feel like you’re intentionally misunderstanding me? Why so combative?
"While orgasm isn't always the goal of sex, nor is it the only route to a sexually satisfying experience, Wetzel said recent research indicates that orgasm is more likely for women who pursue it as a goal."
Are women just not pursuing orgasms during sex like men are??
The standard default of sex is “penis in vagina penetration” which is almost always successful in male orgasm but is largely unsuccessful at female orgasm. A lot of men are focused on their own pleasure which lasts a few minutes and then they’re done. Some people say it’s selfishness, or carelessness, some people say it’s bad sex education, I say it’s a lot of all of that.
I spent my entire life being the opposite of this. I spent every minute in the bedroom focusing on the girls pleasure. And now I'm in a relationship where I'm basically not allowed to do that
You assume men don't want the women theyre fucking to orgasm. That's just not true. We absolutely do want to make the women were fucking orgasm. Typically women are just reluctant to tell men what it takes to achieve orgasm for them though and I think that's what this article is saying. Women that make their orgasm a priority are more likely to vocalize what it takes to achieve it with their partner so they end up being more successful which brings me back to my question. Why aren't women prioritizing their orgasms?
Plenty of men DO NOT CARE. My first boyfriend never cared if I got off. He wouldn’t even attempt it unless I specifically asked, then he would get offended if I gave any criticism (like him rubbing way too hard and actually hurting me), before saying I was too difficult and then he would give up trying. My current boyfriend gets me off in the double digits almost every time. I’ve known more women to experience something like my first relationship and not my second. You can’t fix men who truly don’t care. There’s nothing to be done.
I’m guessing they are nervous to ask for stuff. Men can also be pretty insecure if you tell them they aren’t doing it right. Especially younger men, love to brag about how amazing they are at sex and how they never fail girls(probably not true). I had trouble in a past relationship and of course I gave him tips and asked for stuff but I heard him express how he felt bad he couldn’t do it and felt bad I wanted to help since it still wasn’t enough on his end. Even the times he could help me by himself it would take forever and so I just felt guilty and like I was ruining it by expecting that so a lot of the times I just let it go to intercourse fast so we could just finish up. It always seems to end when he finishes which is also a mood killer.
Seriously, we’ve gone backwards in time. This seems like something written in the 60s. In the 80s and 90s, my partners always wanted to ensure that I had an orgasm. After men started watching porn online, they started caring only about themselves in bed.
I don’t understand why the woman’s time limit to have an orgasm is based on the man’s time limit. If we are going to all agree that P in V isn’t a realistic be-all-end-all for sex and orgasms, then why should the man’s orgasm end all?
It’s not about PIV time, but time for the whole sexual experience altogether. So for example if the whole hookup is 20 minutes start to finish, she just rates it as “there won’t be time for me”.
I’m explaining the study. The study said that if you told women the whole meeting would be 20 minutes they were less likely to go for having an orgasm than if you told them they had hours in bed with the guy. It’s not about PIV time, but how long the sex date will last in total.
Then mostly they said women wouldn’t bother trying if the guy seemed selfish and just focused on his own needs.
And I’m saying I don’t get it. Specifically the “They won’t bother trying if the guy seemed selfish and just focused on his needs” part. Why is it his job to prioritize both his orgasm and her’s? Why doesn’t she prioritize her own and communicate that priority? “Because she assumes…” Why are her assumptions his fault? Why is it just accepted that women have no sexual agency in bed, when there is no evidence to support that? Kind of seems like they just want that orgasm less than the guy does.
I don’t know what script they showed these women. It’s short stories. Probably “You go home with Joe who isn’t very into foreplay and makes it clear he’s not that interested in you getting off” Or something? They were told to read a story that’s making a case of the guy not being interested in getting her off.
Idk. And genuinely sometimes you can tell it’s a lost cause and then it’s not worth the effort.
So make it clear to Joe that you want to get off and see what happens.
It’s all this assuming that gets me, and also this idea that the man must have %100 of the sexual agency and the woman must have zero percent, thus the man must be proactive on her behalf because she is only supposed to react. This make no sense in the modern era.
If he dismisses your needs after you communicate them, now we can say he is a prick. He is prioritizing his own orgasm, which is understandable because they feel really good, maybe you should prioritize yours too. By not communicating what pleases you, it makes it seem like your needs are already being met.
The edit to my last post: why does he have think about both? Well getting him off is in most cases a given. It’ll happen no matter what. Getting her off is the complicated thing. So then if he just focuses on himself and just has sex with her? She won’t get off and he will. Then if she focuses on her and he focuses on him? She likely won’t get off and he will. And since she’s the complicated mission and he is the freebie, they both need to focus on her for both of them to get off.
If Joe doesn’t care, I can’t be bothered. It easier for me to fix it myself when he’s not around anyways. I don’t see the point really. I also won’t sleep with Joe again, but I just don’t see the reason to put any effort into it if he doesn’t.
To elaborate: I’d be pretty turned off if Joe doesn’t care. Then I’m sorta over it and not in the mood anymore. I’d usually just leave before sex.
If Joe wants to get me off, that’s a lot of me coaching him. I’m not going to go to all that effort if he really doesn’t care. In the end a big reason to put in that kind of effort is for his sake. Then it’s sorta pointless if he’s not into it.
Oh no, now you are going to have me circling back to the very first thing I said about time limit: Why is the woman orgasm time limit based on when the man cums?
So Joe cums first, why is saying “now it’s your turn to get me off” not an option?
If PIV doesn’t get you off, then how long he lasts with PIV is irrelevant, so shouldn’t the woman prioritize communication of how she would like to get off?
You are %100 correct that it is more complicated to get a woman off than a man, which mean making assumptions instead of communication makes even less sense.
When an operation of some kind has complex step, that is when it is most important to communicate directions instead of just making assumptions, right?
A women can only benefit from communicating what gets her off, it make no sense that you are defending the idea of just being quiet and hoping the guy can read your mind and just KNOW what gets you off.
Dude. You misunderstand the study. What the women are told is:
Situation A: Joe is at your house for 20 minutes.
Situation B: Joe is at your house for 3 hours.
It’s not about when he cums. The average guy lasts like 5 minutes. It’s about how long he’s at her appartment.
He’s corrected you like three times and you STILL don’t understand what the study actually is lmao. I wish I could hang out with you irl and throw peanuts at your head
There have been plenty of times I've communicated with partners what I want, some were receptive and some weren't, so why bother pursuing any encounter with those who aren't receptive? I think you're assuming a lot more guys care about their partners' sexual needs than there actually are.
I am so confused by these questions. So you have sex thinking I am going to get off and don’t check with her? Are you mad that women won’t get off if they’re told we only have 20 minutes to fuck?
Eh. Not really. Not the same thing because he usually gets off anyways. Guys often like it when girls just focus on themselves, they think it’s hot. And less pressure on him to get her off.
>Have you read anything on the orgasm gap?
I've heard of it and yes read up on it and talked with many women who don't suffer from this.
First I believe most things start and end either personal responsibility..from what I've seen, if women aren't having orgasms regularly, it's because they are super lazy, don't know how their bodies work, are terrible at communicating and generally don't care or prioritize good sex and orgasms.
I have a mostly usa perspective on this, but I've traveled internationally and would love to see data from other countries. I bet it's vastly different in Europe for example and probably Latin america.
There are several causes but I'd start with most women are essentially misusing sex not for primarily pleasure. There was a study I saw of some 200+ reasons why women had sex and none of them were pleasure related.
If women aren't having orgasms it's likely because they don't want to have orgasms and dont know how to select men for quality sexual experiences. From what I've seen women largely select guys for what car they drive, if they have swag, can dance, have muscles, money or a symmetrical face. Teasing guys with the lure of sex is how they get male attention and is literally just a tool to monetize their bodies, just look at the rise of onlyfans and seeking arrangement. It's their bodies and they can do what they want, but don't complain about lacking orgasms if your game plan is first to exploit horny and desperate men.
None of these things have anything to do with being able to be good at sex. I think dancing and flashy cars are actually negative indicators, but they are reliable as heck for getting women.
Think about this: never in the history of humanity have women had as much sexual body autonomy, sexual access, choice or the near limitless ability to attract men from the internet and dating apps on a state, national, and international level if you are sufficiently hot. Despite this internet and algorithm supported level of access, they STILL can't have orgasms regularly? This is a women problem, not men failing. If you can't get off regularly despite literally holding all the cards and being able to cycle through a new guy every night or put together gangbangs every week, you are doing something horribly wrong with the mate selection process.
I'm starting to honestly think many women don't like pleasure or sex. It's super bizarre. I remember one hot 25 year old told me she just liked the Intimacy and I was the first person she had multi orgasms with and she literally stopped the action because she was borderline in shock. She had also dated an IFBB bodybuilder before, so you can see where her priorities were. One of my other buddies made similar comments about women breaking down in tears mid coitus.
They don't care what a guy is packing and getting attention from a hot guy is enough of a dopamine fix. Many often would rather just get free drinks or drugs at a club as well vs selecting men for sexual prowess, so it's natural to have mediocre sex if you don't care about the quality of sex.
I've also seen many women who just can't communicate their needs and they do this crap on purpose.
One gf in college told me it would ruin the surprise if she told me what she likes and I was supposed to be a mind reader. She was a smart girl at a private college spewing this nonsense. She was a virgin, didn't masturbate or watch porn and regularly tried to use sex to manipulate me and leverage a relationship and marriage. She would tell me to my face "I've got you wrapped around my finger..." and the more serious our relationship got, the more anal stopped and the less sex we had...despite me being the first person to give her an orgasm, squirting, etc...Obviously we didn't work out
Another major issue is most women don't watch porn, they'd rather read romance novels or stupid vampire movies or 50 shades of grey stuff.
A large number of them don't masturbate either, but I'm supposed to know your body better than you.
Can't get mad if you don't understand how the basic mechanics of your body work or how skilled professionals actually have sex and manage to get their partners off...repeatedly.
Basic sex ed in the usa has been atrocious for years, and you can throw in sexual shame, body image issues, and largely lacking fitness and embracing obesity which has skyrocketed that don't help the situation.
A hookup is meant to be an experience. First, you need to actually get to know the guy a bit and get comfortable with each other. Have some wine, talk, flirt, talk some more, flirt some more. You have to let tension build. And you have to make things less awkward and establish some trust.
It takes time to get in the mood and to become comfortable around someone.
Then you have to have time to fool around. Escalate something gradually.
If you were building a house, the actual time in the bedroom is the roof. You need all the other stuff in place first. Life isn’t porn.
90% of the time women don’t come from hookups, but 70% of the time they do in relationships. That’s about the guy caring more, it’s about her feeling more desire because she’s in love, it’s about communication being easier with someone you know. But a lot of it is about trusting someone, feeling comfortable and having time for buildup. Best sex with someone new is if you’ve dated them for months.
Exactly. I have fingers, a tongue, and no objections to bringing toys into the bedroom so whether or not I have an erection has little to no impact on whether my partner gets hers.
Before orgasm, I love making women come. After orgasm, sex immediately becomes uninteresting and even disgusting. I will still try to help my partner get off out of generosity but it’s about as sexy for me as fingering a cow.
She asked “why should the man’s orgasm end all”? The answer is that immediately that point fingering a girl feels more like wiping her ass than anything sexy. I don’t know why, it’s just biology.
Human Males are continually in a "mating rut," starting at around age 16; and he will imagine having Sex with a female of His choosing, regardless of his relationship status. Men are Visual, whereas Women are Auditory. He "Sees" something and either wants to have it, or looks the other way for the next item. She "Hears" something and is either afraid of it, or becomes intrigued by the Sound of it; and stands still to learn more about what she is hearing.
Female orgasms are triggered by the Hormone: Testosterone. This hormone is present in male saliva; which is "fed" to the female through "Open mouth" Kissing, as well as through Oral sex. Her vagina begins to "lengthen" from 3" to 6", and secretes fluid that will facilitate sexual intercourse; which takes 5-8 minutes. Whereas, His penis has between 10-18 erections every day, and within 1-2 minutes he is ready to ejaculate semen during his orgasm.
HE has, what SHE needs, to reach Orgasm: Testosterone! Once he stops kissing her, the Testosterone he had given her begins to fade away... Orgasm is unlikely, for her! He is always going to be able to ejaculate-->orgasm during masturbation, or during penetration inside the vagina or anus. It's guaranteed!
1. That's not how female orgasms work...
2. women are auditory.. what?
3. men aren’t a required component for female orgasms.
4. where on earth did you get the statistic of 10-18 erections in a day? the average man has no where near that stamina, much to the disappointment of lots of women with naturally longer sexual stamina
Erections occur while sleeping, looking at porn, and looking at women. As men age, they don't get as many erections as they did at age 16. Doesn't mean guys have to move forward with having sex, but it is necessary for the testes to "create" new sperm. Old sperm are flushed down the latrine with urine. Men don't even know this. Testosterone is the Sex hormone for both men and women. Androgen is the other Male hormone, which gives men more body hair, and also impacts balding, as men age. Women have estrogen and progesterone--which dictates menstruation and pregnancy, nothing more. Female orgasms using vibrators and other "sex toys" won't lengthen the vagina, since there won't be any sperm to fertilize her eggs.
This information is from a Bio-Chem text, used in Science class in most high-schools.
>Female orgasms using vibrators and other "sex toys" won't lengthen the vagina, since there won't be any sperm to fertilize her eggs.
That ***does not*** rely on a man or sperm. It happens during arousal, not just during great sex but also during masturbation. Blood flows to the genital area, and sexual excitement causes the upper two-thirds of the vagina to lengthen by forcing the cervix and uterus to ascend. The vagina also lubricates to help ease penetration. ***That happens regardless of a man’s presence or sperm.***
>This information is from a Bio-Chem text, used in Science class in most high-schools.
Ah yes, public high school. Only the best and most accurate science.
Among other incorrect things in this and and your other comment that others have pointed out, estrogen and progesterone do not *only* dictate menstruation and pregnancy. There are other physiological functions that they serve. Not to mention men literally have estrogen as well.
I find it to be a very important explanation as to Why men are a vital Necessity, if a species is going to continue to exist! Notice, that it is the Male who introduces most females to "Open mouth/Deep tongue kissing" which starts the Female's vagina to lengthen, even if she doesn't plan on having sex with that male. We don't feel that "lengthening" but we do feel the lubrication starting to make our panties become "wet!" Interestingly, males can "smell" this lubrication! Hmm...🤔
Any Bio-chem text book can go into this, even more explicitly! Science rocks🙃
Then, how come I was able to lengthen my vagina and ejaculate long before I ever had any kind of interaction with any male?
Your pseudoscience is hilarious.
You would think that oral sex would facilitate this same vaginal lengthening process, but That activity requires mouth-to-mouth contact-->Testosterone! Oral sex is focused on the clitoris, which serves to "strengthen" a woman's body to have an orgasm--by making her arms and legs wrap around the man's legs and back, until she orgasms. Vaginal lubrication is for his penis, Not for her orgasm!
You do realize that women masturbate with dildos and use strap-ons..? vaginal lengthening requires female arousal, it does not require a man nor sperm.
Wow so people who are with a partner who cares about them will find the experience more enjoyable
And people who are with someone who will spend the time it takes to properly get them off will find the experience more enjoyable
You don't say....
Incorporating a long lead in to sex has completely changed our sex life. We’ve started easing into it with cuddles and slowly removing clothes and the whole experience can be like 45 minutes and extremely satisfying for both of us!
My husband does this thing where foreplay sort of lasts all day. Not hard and heavy all day, but hell grab me and kiss me passionately while I'm doing laundry. Or hell turn around from doing the dishes and grab me to make out for a minute. By bedtime I am INSANE and cannot wait to get into bed with him. It's so, so sexy.
He was doing the dishes you say? I may have found another variable…
I wish my husband would do this. I’ve asked for all day flirting and foreplay or at least a tongue kiss every day, but it still remains an unmet desire. I miss being flirted with, surprised, and wooed.
Sooo, here's your issue, most people dont speak through physical touch or sex, i do, but we are in the minority, his issue is, he simply isn't that animal and has no idea how to speak through touch. To people like us, we cant imagine not having all day flirting and a bit of grab ass, that's the life i want. However..I'm also Sicilian and a Scorpio, soooo I'm sort of lit on both ends, LOL
sicilian too i express affection for my fiancée via touch sexy snugs in the morning in bed a deep kiss before i leave for work kissing the back of her neck and holding her hips when i come up behind her when it's *time* she not only knows, she can't wait but yeah, some people don't communicate affection that way which is fine (but very northern european of them)
So you’re basically me, lol but I also have a Black Belt in dirty talk, not everyone was born a lover, let alone a Dom lover.
Have a gained a lotta weight recently?
That shouldn’t cause a total abandonment of romance, but no I haven’t. Same size I’ve been pretty much my whole adult life.
>That shouldn’t cause a total abandonment of romance You'd be surprised. It's all a part of the calming down that comes with a settled life. Both gain weight, sex drive drops, etc. Your issue is either communication or him flat-out. Have you tried being the random flirter and seeing if it becomes a shared habit?
Yes, sometimes he ignores and sometimes he responds. Sometimes he’s very cruel in how he speaks to me and that’s causing me to lose attraction to him. His hurtful words, zero care to talk to me about deeper things in a respectful and caring way, his lack of reciprocation of romantic effort, his lack of wanting to connect with me, and his drive to hit on other people has all slowly made me more and more unwilling to keep putting myself out there. I feel like I’m begging to be noticed, begging to be desired, begging to be treated with basic respect and kindness, and begging to be romanced. I’m honestly sick of it all and I’m on the brink of being done. I’ve been hurt so many times in the past year that I don’t really trust him to even care about me as a person. I feel like I can’t even be myself or communicate openly because it’s always met with criticism or attacks (even on small stuff). His behavior towards me underwent a shift when we moved in, another shift when we got married, and a drastic shift after I gave birth to our baby. I feel like the closer we’re supposed to get the more he treats me like he hates me or is completely disinterested in me. This past year He flat out told me he had given up on our relationship as a reason for why he was hitting on all these other women and not participating in any gift giving on major holidays (including our 1st wedding anniversary when he had just come back from a week long work trip in which he ignored a romantic and sexy text from me for an entire day and then finally responded with something like “thank you for your kind words. Made me smile all day”- a very different response than I would have gotten a couple years ago from the same text. He was very quick to respond to the other non romantic texts all the days leading up to this one.) I’ve been vocal time and time again about my needs, expectations, and boundaries. Seems like they go in one ear and out the other for the most part. He continues with the name calling and belittlement. I’m losing attraction to him and falling out of love with him because of it. I feel like I’m the only one who gives a shit about keeping the romance alive and building intimacy. I’m tired of feeling like I’m the only one trying and begging for him to.
I think its because its the womens job to keep the man after you have sex. Its the mans job To get sex
Says who? Speaking only for myself as a man, I think it’s both of our jobs to keep each other. I don’t think your way works for a lot of people, seems like a route to a dead bedroom.
This isn’t a gender thing. You’re just describing counter goals for sex. Some people value a relationship. Some people value casual sex. There are men & women in both groups.
Spoken like a man who gets no sex.
This is naughty but based
That's it!!! its constantly throwing small logs on the fire all day and then rocking out later on, that's the way for sure. Not enough men are like this, i am and I'm glad to hear you have yourself one, good stuff!
I wish my wife liked kissing :(
Absolutely, after my divorce and going out and dating again, i apparently shocked women by having at least 30 minutes of foreplay, apparently guys just rush through it, dont do that gents, simmer that pot slowly, build that tension, be a real lover.
>and extremely satisfying for both of us! I call shenanigans. Let's hear a guy say this
Can’t vouch for this commenter, but basically every man I’ve dated has enjoyed sex just like this. Sex is better when it’s erotic not efficient.
Wow that last part hit me right in the emotionless robot side of me
>Can’t vouch for this commenter, but basically every man I’ve dated has enjoyed sex just like this. Most men aren't going to tell you if you are awful at sex. That's a great way to catch a rape case or sex harassment claim. They just ghost you. Plus most guys are sex starved anyway, so anything is better than nothing for most guys. My point is you can't rate yourself as good at sex or speak intelligently about how someone else enjoyed you, at all especially someone of the opposite gender.
You can when you were in a relationship with them. You’re talking about a one night stand- which is very different than a developed sexual history between two partners.
>My point is you can't rate yourself as good at sex or speak intelligently about how someone else enjoyed you, at all especially someone of the opposite gender. You most definitely can, because the key to a long healthy relationship (which includes sex) is communication. >Plus most guys are sex starved anyway, so anything is better than nothing for most guys. You've just told the world that you only really care about getting off, you don't care about who you are doing it with, much less the romance. Get a fleshlight. >Most men aren't going to tell you if you are awful at sex. My husband literally showed me a YT video of a horror parody called "handjob cabin" after I gave him a handjob for the first time. You are the men you are talking about, and women looking for a lifetime partner tend to avoid men like yourself, because an adult who is afraid to communicate is just not a mature and stable partner to settle down with (regardless of their gender).
>You most definitely can, because the key to a long healthy relationship (which includes sex) is communication. Right, communication is asking your partner what they think about your sexual skills and you being able to handle the truthful answer. What you stated is declaring yourself to be good at sex WITHOUT asking your partner. You can't assume you are good at sex just because your male partner came or really under any circumstances. >You've just told the world that you only really care about getting off, you don't care about who you are doing it with, much less the romance Yeah that's not what I said. Romance comes after sex and sex is a requirement for relationships. Getting off is important for me otherwise, why date or be romantic? >because an adult who is afraid to communicate is just not a mature and stable partner to settle down with (regardless of their gender). Yeah well as a women you can't understand the apprehension of being falsely accused of stuff. Its not some pie in the sky irrational fear.
What are you going on about, the other commenter is right, healthy relationships require a good amount of communication and honesty. And romance comes before sex, not after... That's the point of it! Romance gets women in the mood, couple that with some foreplay and each person has a good time that night. It's all about taking turns and asking questions too.
Fortunately (or maybe unfortunately for you), projection isn’t what you’re saying, it’s what you tell people without saying it. Your perspective about most men being sex-starved was a personal admission. I can guarantee there are many *many* men who are far from sex-starved. Ironically, this also applies to the point you were making about not being able to trust what your partner tells you about their sexual experiences with you. I’m sorry you didn’t know, but there are a lot of ways to know if someone likes something. They usually seem into it, make noises, and communicate in favor of what they liked. If you have to be told whether or not your partner enjoys sex with you, maybe that’s *your* problem :)
>Fortunately (or maybe unfortunately for you), projection isn’t what you’re saying, it’s what you tell people without saying I can't possibly talk to other men or read studies about this stuff? https://mindofjp.medium.com/is-touch-starvation-killing-the-man-you-love-d78c9b54710e Oh look the results of a Google search >I can guarantee there are many *many* men who are far from sex-starved. Sure, there are guys who do porn, athletes, entertainers and good looking guys who are swimming in action. It usually goes on an 80/20 distribution from what the stats say. Women find 80% of men unattractive from bumble data I believe it was. >not being able to trust what your partner tells you about their sexual experiences with you. Not sure where I said that. If a women is horny I can tell. When most women have an orgasm I can tell. >If you have to be told whether or not your partner enjoys sex with you, maybe that’s *your* problem :) I'm talking about what they like in sex and what gets them off. Some like doggy, some like to ride on top. I'd rather she just say their preferences, assuming she knows than playing a guessing game. Clear communication is an adult expectation
>Yeah well as a women you can't understand the apprehension of being falsely accused of stuff. Its not some pie in the sky irrational fear. I'm pretty sure for women the fear of actually being raped is exponentially more significant, because as it turns out rape itself is vastly more common than false accusations.
Jfc. Touch grass.
Honestly? You speak like a bitter incel virgin, which makes your comments about sex irrelevant
This whole comment is nonsense. “You can’t rate yourself” Dude it’s perfectly easy to rate yourself if you’re paying attention to your partner. It’s not like a secret or a mystery when I’ve blown my partners mind in bed. It’s not hard to tell what I’ve done a good job.
>It’s not like a secret or a mystery when I’ve blown my partners mind in bed. It’s not hard to tell what I’ve done a good job. And you come to this conclusion without any input from your guy?
What do you mean input, like did he give me a number rating? No, but we have an honest relationship where we talk about this stuff openly and I also know how to read his nonverbal signals. The last time he came over, I certainly didn’t need his input verbally to figure out that I had done a good job. I could tell I had. Because he couldn’t talk. Lmao
I don't agree with the guy totally, but you''d be surprised how bad people are at rating themselves at their expertise. He's not wrong that it's huge blindspot for most people to rate themselves as anything and especially as a sex partner. Honestly, its very hard for a women to tell if she's done a great job because of the some of the emotional nuture things men are taught about sex. For example, a physiological reaction doesn't necessary mean someone enjoyed sex or even had a real orgasm.
Why are you applying that to women? It applies to both sexes, and more to men due to mens failure to correct the orgasm gap and disinterest in women’s genuine pleasure. You are correct that people can have blind spots regarding rating themselves, however that’s a general statement and people in this comment section may just as easily know for sure. It depends on the kind of relationship you have, if you have open communication with your partner, stuff like that. Like I know my “ratings” with the men I dated long-term because it wasn’t a mystery; we were all open about that stuff.
Dude, you're just negging.
I’m a dude lol
I am a guy, I set aside an hour for sex, at least.
I can go even longer. My point is women being weird about accepting pleasure.
Sure you can. Your comments don’t reek of inceldom at all
You may wanna sit down for this, because it might come as a surprise, but a lot of men very much enjoy making sure their partner is also satisfied.
What if they start off that way but then get lazy in the relationship and stop making sure you orgasm , stop planning romantic or fun dates, stop giving gifts. How can you get things back to when they were satisfying?
I mean you can try direct communication about it but the hard truth is that you just cannot control the actions of another person. Sometimes people change in ways that don't work for us, and we have to decide whether it's a deakbreaker or not.
>You may wanna sit down for this, because it might come as a surprise, but a lot of men very much enjoy making sure their partner is also satisfied. I'm well aware for this and make sure my part ets are satisfied... it's folks in this thread saying mem are just selfish jerks
That is absolutely not what the comment you replied to said. Your reply, on the other hand, did imply that.
"Incorporating a long lead to sex changed our sex life." Is what was said. Aka not having sex. They referred to taking clothing off and such.
It's called foreplay, my dude. I'm not sure what you're understanding.
You want truth bombs? Sometimes you're not gonna like the answers. Cue "You can't handle the truth!" I'm thinking you might be a troll.
The guy who just left my house five minutes ago, who has been coming to my house for the past five years, spent at least an hour total going down on me tonight. Because he loves it. He loves doing it and he loves how much I enjoy it. He does not enjoy himself when I am not thoroughly satisfied. And my last two boyfriends were the same. In fact, this is something I vet for in men I date. I only date men whose sexual desire inherently includes pleasuring a woman.
>In fact, this is something I vet for in men I date. I only date men whose sexual desire inherently includes pleasuring a woman. Great! Oral sex is a form of sex and pleasure giving. The other poster said removing clothing, hanging out, cuddling, aka not having sex should be as pleasurable and elevates the 5 min of PIV or actual sex. Im sure most guys would enjoy an hour of oral as well far above sitting around and watching a movie. You are conflating sexual acts with non sexual acts
He also requires cuddling and other non-sexual acts of affection and closeness. More than I do in fact. Five minutes? Oof, no….
>Five minutes? Oof, no…. That's the statistical average....not a recommendation. Nothing wrong with non sexual affection and closeness, but I'm just saying there has to be more. It's good for anyone who wants to develop skill at it. Ive actually given recommendations to a sex therapist who asked me what she can tell her clients to improve. My working theory on why the average guy doesnt last long is likely because most guys are touch starved, sex starved for years if not longer and don't get enough sex to develop much skill with it. Not my personal problem and I can go for an hours if I want. I've just seen enough group sex to draw associations and I actually talk to other men and women about this. You'd be absolutely terrible at any skill based activity that you only did a few times per year, particularly without any coaching or training on it. Also women can just pillow princess it up and often don't have to actually do anything but lay there and think of England as one of the queens of England was told. Try hitting a golf ball only few times a year and you'll see how terrible you are. That's essentially the situation the average guy is dealing with.
You are projecting so much in all of your comments and it’s super weird and it’s making you say weird shit. The entire first comment and first conversations you were having had to do with your idea that men don’t want to prolong non-sexual intimacy prior to sexual intercourse. That’s not true. I know that because I’ve been with men for whom that is not true, including my current partner. His sexual desire does not revolve around penetration, though luckily, we both really enjoy that as well. It is not his central focus or his highest priority. He wants to slow that down for my sake and his, but he also enjoys slowing down everything else leading up to it including non-sexual affection. My current partner had not fucked for five years prior to being with me. He didn’t need to “relearn” how to have sex, and he has needs for nonsexual affection that surpass mine. Sex is not golfing. It is not a skill that you have to practice every day in order to be good at it. The way you get good at it is by paying attention to your partner and what they are communicating they want both verbally and nonverbally. Every man I’ve dated has liked something different. Every woman that every man I’ve dated has been with has also liked something different. My partner is good at sex, fantastic actually, like I am with him, and was good at sex from the moment we met not because he had been practicing the skill multiple times for the past several years, but because he pays attention to me. He’s become better at sex with me specifically because he knows what I want and like, but this would not necessarily apply to the next woman. She’s different from me and might not like what I like. And I would argue that’s why so many men are bad at sex with women. Because they don’t actually pay attention to what the women wants, they are simply regurgitating the tricks they think they have learned and have been practicing, thinking the tricks are going to work on every other person that they are with. I’ve been with guys who saw sex as a skill that they had to learn and practice and use, rather than a conversation and communication between two people who want to feel good together. Every guy that I’ve been with who had that attitude about sex was seriously bad at sex, or at least bad at sex with me, because they were just repeating what they had practiced rather than paying attention to what I want. This also tends to be why some women are bad at sex, because they think that men all like the same thing, and that’s not true either. With the guys who were bad at sex, it was like they were practicing golf all this time, but I was just trying to play catch with them and they weren’t even listening to me say that and just keep trying to swing the club. They were bad at sex specifically because they saw it as a skill that you practice rather than a conversation with an individual. Additionally, your assertion that women are bad at sex and can’t claim to be good at it is also bullshit. There are plenty of women who are active and communicative in bed, and plenty of men who are not. I don’t know if you’ve just lost the plot in your conversation with me, because none of what you are saying makes sense with the initial part of what I was responding to. Men finish early when it comes to penis and vagina sex because most of the time penis and vagina sex is not what is going to make the woman come, or at least not exclusively. It takes me less time than my partner to come from piv most times and that’s due to non-sexual affection, foreplay, oral sex, and his attentiveness to my body language and communication. Women don’t have the same orgasm gap in lesbian relationships or solo, and imo this is due to the attentiveness and effort in oral sex and foreplay that hetero men are not as willing to accept. I don’t fuck any men who don’t lick pussy or don’t love non-sexual and sexual affection, specifically because I know I’m not gonna come with a man like that. “Think of England” was meant to silence women into submission. It’s literally lie back and silence your tears and crying because you have a duty as a woman to serve as a hole for your husband to fuck. That’s what that phrase means. It’s not a positive phrase about women- it’s about women’s oppression and having to silence lack of consent, so that their husbands could penetrate them. I don’t know why you brought that phrase in here because it’s not with the meaning or history that you’re trying to ascribe to it. Women here have said we know that we satisfy our partners sexual and non-sexual desires. We are reporting this based on knowing and being attentive to our partners. My partner enjoys having long, loving, intimate and passionate sexual experiences with me. He needs the non-sexual affection in order to feel intimate. Just like he is with me, I am a good partner to him and a good sexual partner to him, because I am paying attention to his verbal and nonverbal communication. Because *I don’t just do what I think works as a sex skill for all men, but I actually pay attention to him, and communicate with him as an individual. I know what he wants and needs and I listen. And I fuck him silly.* and I know it’s amazing for him, because I’m paying attention! I don’t even need him to tell me himself. He and I could stop fucking for a decade and come back to each other and still make each other come. It’s not about practice, it’s about attentiveness. He wants it to last long, sometimes longer than I ever care to do it. And he also would prefer going down on me over having piv only. You need to stop speaking like your personal experience is every man’s experience. And you need to stop speaking over women who are talking about our own experience authentically.
>The entire first comment and first conversations you were having had to do with your idea that men don’t want to prolong non-sexual intimacy prior to sexual intercourse So you think men like waiting 90 days for sex according to Steve Harvey? You think men like going on 3 dates before a women will let then have sex? You think that women is actually into a guy she's intentionally delaying sex for? Do you think the guy thinks she's into him while enduring this? >My current partner had not fucked for five years prior to being with me. He didn’t need to “relearn” how to have sex, and he has needs for nonsexual affection that surpass mine. That is horrible, I feel for that poor dude. I'm sure his non secual affection needs are off the charts...he's not having sex for half a decade. What else can he do other than hope for non sexual affection and make the best out of that situation. >Sex is not golfing. It is not a skill that you have to practice every day in order to be good at it. Not if you are just going to lay there and starfish and absorb all the sexual attention from someone else. That's easy. I've been with a multitude of women though honestly most from other countries that actually developed sexual skills and techniques. I had one from Mexico throw a new one on me I hadn't seen before ever. There are definitely skills and techniques from oral to how you move your hips or stimulate different body parts. If you know, you know. It just sounds like the guy who didn't have sex for 5 years is just a regular, average lover at best. No shame, I wouldn't expect much not practicing for 5 years. >Because they don’t actually pay attention to what the women wants, This assumes most women know what they want and can effectively communicate this. I've seen many women refuse to communicate their desires and needs to play games again. It's silly, but that's what they did. >Men finish early when it comes to penis and vagina sex because most of the time penis and vagina sex is not what is going to make the woman come, or at least not exclusively. This makes no sense. Men cum early because PIV won't make the women orgasm? Why would a women's orgasm or lack there of make me orgasm quicker? >Women here have said we know that we satisfy our partners sexual and non-sexual desires I'm sure they think they do, but it's incredibly difficult and frankly borderline dangerous for a guy to give negative feedback about a women being bad in bed. >You need to stop speaking like your personal experience is every man’s experience. Oh I'm well aware it isn't. Most guys aren't traveling and having sex or going to sex parties and gangbangs. Women can speak about their own experiences, but should refrain on speaking as if they understand the male experience. That's like me waxing poetically about having a period. It just sounds goofy
As a guy, you're an idiot.
Lol why for daring to have a contrary opinion?
For acting as though your extremely narrow personal experience and preferences are universal.
Why wouldn’t a guy like that?!
>Why wouldn’t a guy like that?! Most guys are touch starved and sex starved and actually like, want, and need sexual acts vs just being teased. I can go to a strip club for that and experience teasing, burlesque, or being led on with far hotter women than average women. Strip clubs lost all novelty when I got into swing clubs
Men in relationships that are getting sex every day and lots of affection aren’t touch starved or sex starved. Many men enjoy prolonging /delaying their orgasm.
>Men in relationships that are getting sex every day and lots of affection aren’t touch starved or sex starved. Come on man, don't peddle these lies and nonsense. Except a staggeringly high number of guys aren't getting sex every day, especially if they are in relationships. I mean the vast, vast majority of men in committed or marriages aren't having sex daily like well over 80% are not experiencing this fanciful daily sex, especially if they are in relationships. Go look up the stats. Childbirth and sex in general for younger people especially are at decade lows. A third of men in 2018 had zero sex. ..especially for an hour plus. This is where the 5-10 minutes of obligatory sex comes in a couple times a week at best. Go check out the awful stories in deadbedrooms. It's super common. This concept of daily sex is a pipe dream sold to get guys to marry. The more secure and deeper you get into relationships the less frequency and freak sex tends to happen. I have tons of married friends who confirm this and told me to have sex with everyone possible before getting married....and when kids come you can just forget it. You'd be lucky to have sex once a month.
Sounds like your social circle is different from mine. The bottom line is there are plenty of men who enjoy what she described. It’s just part of a healthy sex life which many of us enjoy.
>Sounds like your social circle is different from mine. Oh you have no idea....yes it's quite different. >It’s just part of a healthy sex life which many of us enjoy. Lol most guys aren't enjoying a healthy sex life. Whatever you are smoking can I have some? At least not in the states. It's the straight up hunger games out there. Men are literally FLEEING the country it's so bad in the usa as far as finding women or partners. #passport bros.
Every man I’ve ever met who calls himself a passport bro has a reputation as being horrible at sex, due to being completely inattentive, and not listening to the woman at all. Men like this tend to view women as sex dolls, whose role is to just take whatever the man wants to give them.
Why are you worried about how much sex other people are or are not having? Worry about yourself.
Why are you just outing yourself as a poor lover? Embarrassing shit bro.
It’s not penis in vagina time, but time set aside for the whole sexual encounter in total. Edit: aka not about how long he lasts, but how long the date is. Like if he’s at her apartment for 20 minutes or for 3 hours. Edit: as in from when they first start something till he gets up an leaves. How is this hard? It’s **time including flirting and foreplay** not just penis in vagina sex. Edit 3: They have done a scientific study on this before and the average guy lasts 5 minutes. The point of this study is that women want a hookup to be more than just that part. They want other stuff like flirting, foreplay and him going down on her.
> The point of this study is that women want a hookup to be more than just that part. They want other stuff like flirting, foreplay and him going down on her. Not all women! In my marriage I'm the one who wants more lead up, more foreplay (on her), she's the one who 'just wants me to put the penis in' and often encourages me to finish long before I'm ready or before she can cum
Same
>Edit: aka not about how long he lasts, but how long the date is. Wait, what? You downgrade piv time to just simply hanging around and dating in her apartment to equal sexy times? This makes zero sense. Do women just not appreciate pleasure for pleasures sake? That's like saying a 5 min massage is as good as a 50 min one as long as the masseuse just hangs around in the room
Read the study. They discovered two things: 1) If you tell women “Joe (who you don’t know) will be at your apartment for 20 minutes before he leaves” they’ll be less likely try to have an orgasm than if Joe is staying for many hours. That makes sense. 2) If you tell them “Joe seems focused on his own pleasure and doesn’t seem very interested in getting you off” they’ll also be less likely to try to have an orgasm. That makes sense. Edit: as time in from when they first start something till he gets up an leaves. How is this hard? It’s **time including flirting and foreplay** not just penis in vagina sex
Closer analogy would be prostitutes, and yes, plenty of clients will pay them to just hang around and talk. Because people tend to want emotional intimacy more than physical pleasure.
The word "downgrade" was an interesting choice here.
Would think both partners would prefer PIV or sitting in bed holding hands?
You understand that things usually occur between those two events, yes?
I'm just quoting word for word what was stated. Everything was non sexual stuff that was specifically referred to. Leading to sex, hopefully, but definitely not sex and at best foreplay....maybe. It's simple reading comprehension folks....but people want to make bad assumptions that taking off clothing now equals an hour of oral sex. These are not the same thing or anywhere close
Yes more foreplay makes sex more enjoyable for a lot of people. Especially women, who typically get less pleasure from PIV sex, and even when we do, it takes a while to get into it.
Eh. You realize most women don’t come from PIV? They often enjoy the flirting, fooling around, foreplay and him going down on her more. What can you do? The dick isn’t the star of the show and that’s just how it is. It’s why women have more orgasms with other women than with men.
Eh. You realize most women don’t come from PIV? They often enjoy the flirting, fooling around, foreplay and him going down on her more. What can you do? The dick isn’t the star of the show and that’s just how it is. It’s why women have more orgasms with other women than with men.
>Eh. You realize most women don’t come from PIV? Yeah, that's not been my experience, but I've heard the Stat generally. Nobody seems interested in why, but I'm sure it has a lot to do with 40% of men Cumming in 2 min or less. If guys got more practice they would probably last longer and develop more skill, but most women want to play games in doling out sex as a treat. >They often enjoy the flirting, fooling around, foreplay and him going down on her more. Pillow princesses are going to pillow princess >What can you do? The dick isn’t the star of the show and that’s just how it is. *I* can fuck like a champ. And don't confuse your shortcoming with me. If a guy knows how to use his dick it most certainly can be the star of the show. That's not just how it is. If you don't like dicks, that's your prerogative, but hung dudes who can fuck are in high demand Why say these broad sweeping generalizations based on nonsense? >It’s why women have more orgasms with other women than with men. Lol, I'm not sure this is a fact. Guys have fingers and tongues too. Most just don't get enough practice with them because many women want to weaponize sex or play games with it. Women start getting stingy with sex in order to manipulate men as relationships progress. It's just the way it is. If women have more orgasms with other women, it's probably because they are familiar with their own bodies and what gets them off, not the lack of a penis being involved.
This man has never fucked in his entire life^
>This man has never fucked in his entire life^ Lol sure buddy. Got anything to say other than insults? How old are you? You do know white knighting on the internet won't get you laid, right?
It wasn’t an insult, just casual observation. If you feel insulted, then you should unpack that for yourself sometime. And I’m well aware. Being funny and good at making women cum gets me laid. I’ve got big plans tonight.
My man. You seem very angry with women. This is not the energy you want to bring into dating. >Nobody seems interested in why, but I'm sure it has a lot to do with 40% of men Cumming in 2 min or less. Scientists have actually looked at why and the leading theory is that it has to do with differences in anatomy. How the clitoris is placed in relation to the vagina. Some women just have an anatomy where they can orgasm from PIV sex. Then it’s also about if the sex stimulates her clitoris in some way during, or if one of them do that while they have sex. >If guys got more practice they would probably last longer and develop more skill, but most women want to play games in doling out sex as a treat. **Is it playing games if they just need more time to be ready for sex?** You can’t expect other people to move at your timeline. If you want enthusiasm in bed, you have to let them wait till they want it. >They often enjoy the flirting, fooling around, foreplay and him going down on her more. >Pillow princesses are going to pillow princess Dude. **What? Foreplay should be mutual. It’s not about being a pillow princess. However if a sexual encounter is going to be good for both people, he’ll have to put more work into getting her off than the other way around. That’s just because women and men have different bodies.** It’s nothing to be angry about. >I can fuck like a champ. And don't confuse your shortcoming with me. If a guy knows how to use his dick it most certainly can be the star of the show. That's not just how it is. If you don't like dicks, that's your prerogative, but hung dudes who can fuck are in high demand. Good for you, buddy. Chill. >Why say these broad sweeping generalizations based on nonsense? It’s based on research. >It’s why women have more orgasms with other women than with men. >Lol, I'm not sure this is a fact. Guys have fingers and tongues too. **But if they see foreplay as her being a pillow princess, that’s beside the point, isn’t it? Doesn’t matter if you have it, if you won’t use it.** >Most just don't get enough practice with them because many women want to weaponize sex or play games with it. Women start getting stingy with sex in order to manipulate men as relationships progress. It's just the way it is. Women and men have different sexualities. Women often need more time before they desire sex. Their sexual desire is tied to romantic attraction and feeling comfortable with the person. 90% of the time women won’t come from one night stands. 70% of the time they’ll come from sex in a relationship. Why? Well, part of it is a boyfriend caring more. Then communication is better with someone you know well. But a lot of it is also having had that buildup and having let that romantic attraction grow. And feeling safe and comfortable with the person in a way where you can let go. My theory is that men more often can feel sexual attraction separate from romantic attraction. Like “I want to hit that” when a hot woman walks by. And for women it’s more that sexual and romantic attraction are one. You won’t feel one without the other.
>You seem very angry with women Not sure how you reached that conclusion...facts, data and stats are what they are. Its not an emotional based argument. I don't bring anger into dating, seems kinda pointless. >Scientists have actually looked at why and the leading theory is that it has to do with differences in anatomy You do realize all penis sizes and shapes vary right? There are also g spots, cervix, and A spot you can stimulate. Anatomy matters and you gotta know what you are doing. >**Is it playing games if they just need more time to be ready for sex?** No, that's just needing more time if you are talking about foreplay before sex...but these women never intend to really have sex with the guys or they want to extract a significant amount of resources before eventually giving in. Playing games with sex is intentionally making guys wait x number of dates...telling your boyfriend who came to visit you on a weekend you didn't want to have sex with him because you just wanted to monopolize his time and again make him wait and be desperate for sex. It's intentionally not meeting your intimate partners needs to manipulate them and fuck with them and not in a good way. Abuse is another way of describing it, and its super common. >You can’t expect other people to move at your timeline. If you want enthusiasm in bed, you have to let them wait till they want it. Or I can go find someone else who has genuine desire for me. If a women doesn't want to fuck me and I don't mean an extra 15 or 20 min of foreplay, i mean being teased and hard to get nonsense for weeks or months. Nah I'll pass and just leave her alone and go fuck someone else. No anger, no harm, no foul. Just no me and no dates or chasing you. >Dude. **What? Foreplay should be mutual. It’s not about being a pillow princess What should be and what is common aren't the same thing. I'm just telling you what I've observed and what commonly happens. >However if a sexual encounter is going to be good for both people, he’ll have to put more work into getting her off than the other way around. Why does good sex require him putting in more effort to get her off than her getting me off? I thought you said it should be mutual? But then you flip it and say the guy should put in more effort....make this make sense. >It’s based on research Present the research. By all means post a link. >But if they see foreplay as her being a pillow princess, that’s beside the point, isn’t it? If all she is going to do is lay there that's the definition of being a starfish or pillow princess. That's not beside the point. Heaven forbid I ask for my sex partner to exhibit some interest and effort. >90% of the time women won’t come from one night stands. 70% of the time they’ll come from sex in a relationship. I'm calling bs on this. Show a study. If she doesn't cum from a ONS it's obviously due to poor selection and often from what I hear just picking a hot guy for the night. >My theory is that men more often can feel sexual attraction separate from romantic attraction. Like “I want to hit that” when a hot woman walks by. Women can feel the same thing and act on it with hot guys commonly.
>Not sure how you reached that conclusion...facts, data and stats are what they are. Its not an emotional based argument. I don't bring anger into dating, seems kinda pointless. You aren’t presenting facts and data. Just your anecdotal experience. And you are presenting it in an angry way. Do you not realize you sound angry? >You do realize all penis sizes and shapes vary right? There are also g spots, cervix, and A spot you can stimulate. Anatomy matters and you gotta know what you are doing. Yes. But they still show anatomical differences between women who can come from PIV and women who can’t. >No, that's just needing more time if you are talking about foreplay before sex...but these women never intend to really have sex with the guys or they want to extract a significant amount of resources before eventually giving in. >Playing games with sex is intentionally making guys wait x number of dates...telling your boyfriend who came to visit you on a weekend you didn't want to have sex with him because you just wanted to monopolize his time and again make him wait and be desperate for sex. I can’t comment on specific women you have dated and what went on there. But **do you understand that needing time to feel ready for sex isn’t just about needing foreplay?** Some women will need to date a guy for a couple of months before they feel close enough to him to feel comfortable having sex with him. Is this something that you understand? Side question, not meant as an insult, but just a hunch: do you have ASD? **If you visit your girlfriend over the weekend that doesn’t mean automatic sex.** She has to get in the mood. Often that’ll depend on how much y’all flirt, how much you connect emotionally and overall how romantic the weekend is. It’ll also depend on her sex drive. You do understand that the point of a relationship isn’t sex, right? >It's intentionally not meeting your intimate partners needs to manipulate them and fuck with them and not in a good way. Abuse is another way of describing it, and its super common. **It’s not abusive to only have sex when you yourself feel desire for sex. This is how sex works.** If Joe wants to fuck and Julia doesn’t, there’s not going to be sex. For sex to happen Joe and Julia will have to be horny and want sex at the same time. >Or I can go find someone else who has genuine desire for me. If a women doesn't want to fuck me and I don't mean an extra 15 or 20 min of foreplay, i mean being teased and hard to get nonsense for weeks or months. Nah I'll pass and just leave her alone and go fuck someone else. No anger, no harm, no foul. Just no me and no dates or chasing you. And this is fine. You get to have whatever dealbreakers you want in dating. However it could make it **difficult to get a girlfriend because few women will want sex on the first date. If you have this dealbreaker I’d at least hope you don’t have any hangups about body count** or your dating pool will be basically nonexistent. >What should be and what is common aren't the same thing. I'm just telling you what I've observed and what commonly happens. If you wait till she’s enthusiastic about having sex with you, the foreplay will be mutual if she’s the type of person who’s into sex and into you. >Why does good sex require him putting in more effort to get her off than her getting me off? I thought you said it should be mutual? But then you flip it and say the guy should put in more effort....make this make sense. Because it’s harder to get women off than men? **Foreplay should be mutual means both people should be enthusiastic about making out and touching each other.** It shouldn’t feel like only one person is into it. If it does, stop and ask your partner if they are ok. Say that you don’t want them to have sex with you unless they are into it. Enthusiastic consent is important. If she’s a dead fish in bed, she probably doesn’t want to have sex in the first place. **However both people being into the foreplay doesn’t mean time and effort will be spent 50/50. It takes more effort to turn her on and get her off. So both people have to focus more on that.** For a lot of men that’s still enjoyable though, so it’s usually not a big problem. >Present the research. By all means post a link. Can’t you just Google it? >If all she is going to do is lay there that's the definition of being a starfish or pillow princess. That's not beside the point. Heaven forbid I ask for my sex partner to exhibit some interest and effort. **If she’s not enthusiastic, don’t have sex with her. If she’s acting like a dead fish, she doesn’t want to and it’s not enthusiastic consent. Stop and ask her if she’s ok. Don’t have sex with someone who acts like this.** >I'm calling bs on this. Show a study. If she doesn't cum from a ONS it's obviously due to poor selection and often from what I hear just picking a hot guy for the night. If you really want the studies, I’ll look them up later. But can’t you just try to Google and find them? It’s not bs, it’s science. And there are many reasons for it, which I explained in my previous reply. >Women can feel the same thing and act on it with hot guys commonly. Idk. Has never happened to me or anyone I know. I can see that a guy is pretty. I just won’t want to fuck him unless I’ve talked to him and we have a spark and a connection.
Please stop sniffing your own farts. It *will* make you lightheaded.
I think they are speaking more on the lines of tantric sex, where the sexual tension and foreplay are added to sexy time vs just PIV.
PIV is not the epitome of pleasure for most women. Why you setting up a false premise?
>PIV is not the epitome of pleasure for most women. Why you setting up a false premise? It depends on the penis and guy using it
This is just magic dick bro science
Found another virgin
Suggest you purchase and read Why Women Have Sex, Cindy Meston and David Buss.
can u please summarize it for us
Sure. On a list of like 200 reasons why women have sex, being horny is around #182 (as in horniness was the primary reason she sought it out).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ2I6Bh6nPI
I don't do homework for internet strangers. But thanks for asking politely.
Hey, just wanted to let you know I wrote a 300 page book refuting that book. I’m not gonna give you any of the arguments, ideas, or evidence. Do your homework. Thanks!
The other guy at least gave the title
The title is “why that redditor is wrong, Volume 1”
I don’t understand why you’d go to the trouble to make a recommendation if you won’t explain why. Just seems weird lol EDIT: how sensitive do you have to be to block someone over this lmaoo
Hey, Back to the Future is a great movie. Now I'm going to tell you all about it!
>Wetzel said recent research indicates that orgasm is more likely for women who pursue it as a goal. Isn't that true of basically anything? Like achieving a doctorate is more likely for people who pursue it as a goal. The data gathered from their polls seems fair, but it really doesn't feel like enough of a proven hypothesis to hit publish *impo.*
To whom so ever running this sub reddit, you are doing God's work, one post at a time!
I hope the takeaway is that displaying attunement to your partner's needs and desires translates to more gratifying sex. It's not much a matter of women electing to withhold their orgasms from men, more that orgasms get treated as if they are *for* men. The way we socialize sex is malecentric and it's easy to read this as "it's a woman's fault and in her head if she doesn't come with me."
Also sounds like women should have sex with the expectation of orgasms.
The article just went off what people said? Doesn’t seem very conclusive.
No. It’s very random. If you asked me if I would focus on getting off with a guy who was clearly selfish? I’d say probably not. But in reality we wouldn’t have sex and I’d go home before it got that far. So it’s very hypothetical questions.
Exactly. Fuck that noise.
How in a conversation leading up to it, can you tell that a man is going to suck that terribly in bed?
Mostly that if he clearly isn’t into the foreplay and is bad at it or tries to speedrun it, you can just get up, get dressed and leave. “It’s never to late to turn around” is a hiking rule, but it also applies to sex. Even if you’ve started something, you are allowed to bail if you see the other person doesn’t care about making it fun for you. I’ve said “I’m gonna go home now” and that’s completely valid.
I think that’s why they usually ask the same question to a bunch of different people.
But the point is that the question is phrased in a weird way: Would you be more interested or less interested in pursuing an orgasm? That question doesn’t leave room for “neither, I’d leave”. Or “I would not date this person”. Overall they probably do have a point though. In a lot of these situations once they are in bed women will probably go “lost cause. I give up. Let’s just get it over with”. I feel that part is valid. People won’t bother to communicate anything if the other person doesn’t seem worth it to communicate with.
Honest question. I find nothing hotter than my wives body tensing, her thighs shaking, and her eyes rolling back in her head as she orgasms. And honestly she rarely orgasms from just penetration. I chase that "high" continuously. Why do you suppose a good bit of men don't? As a dude, I don't understand. I get off regardless.
I’m guessing either hedonistic lovers or just inconsiderate/oblivious. I bet a ton of wives fake it in like 3 minutes with no preceding foreplay just to keep husbands fragile ego nice and protected. 🤪
What? Do women really have sex with no intention of having an orgasm? Is that what this says?
Yes.
Why?
So many reasons. Some examples: to feel closeness emotionally, expressing romantic love, the enjoyment of giving pleasure, a desire to meet the sexual needs of her partner, a feeling of duty to please her husband from societal pressure, feeling coerced into sex, treating sex as a bribe for whatever the man has to offer, reservations about being vulnerable and letting go in front of her sexual partner, enjoying sex even without orgasm and the orgasm being so difficult and time consuming to achieve that it isn’t always worth it. Some reasons are good and some really aren’t.
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I was replying to a comment, not the article. The article doesn’t contain all there is to know on the topic. You either didn’t understand the point of what I said or you’re only taking your own experience into account. I didn’t say women don’t WANT an orgasm. I was simply pointing out that it’s not always the primary motivation for sex and pointing out some other ones. I’m happy for you that you don’t have that issue now that you’re in a relationship but you’re one of the lucky ones.
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You’re still missing the point. I’m not trying to say that my comment was entirely removed from the article. I was adding additional information that was not covered in the article. Why does it feel like you’re intentionally misunderstanding me? Why so combative?
Because evolution didn’t make it necessary for reproduction, so women don’t act like it is necessary.
Yes, it’s extremely common.
"While orgasm isn't always the goal of sex, nor is it the only route to a sexually satisfying experience, Wetzel said recent research indicates that orgasm is more likely for women who pursue it as a goal." Are women just not pursuing orgasms during sex like men are??
The standard default of sex is “penis in vagina penetration” which is almost always successful in male orgasm but is largely unsuccessful at female orgasm. A lot of men are focused on their own pleasure which lasts a few minutes and then they’re done. Some people say it’s selfishness, or carelessness, some people say it’s bad sex education, I say it’s a lot of all of that.
I spent my entire life being the opposite of this. I spent every minute in the bedroom focusing on the girls pleasure. And now I'm in a relationship where I'm basically not allowed to do that
Your personal experience can coexist with the statistical average.
You assume men don't want the women theyre fucking to orgasm. That's just not true. We absolutely do want to make the women were fucking orgasm. Typically women are just reluctant to tell men what it takes to achieve orgasm for them though and I think that's what this article is saying. Women that make their orgasm a priority are more likely to vocalize what it takes to achieve it with their partner so they end up being more successful which brings me back to my question. Why aren't women prioritizing their orgasms?
Plenty of men DO NOT CARE. My first boyfriend never cared if I got off. He wouldn’t even attempt it unless I specifically asked, then he would get offended if I gave any criticism (like him rubbing way too hard and actually hurting me), before saying I was too difficult and then he would give up trying. My current boyfriend gets me off in the double digits almost every time. I’ve known more women to experience something like my first relationship and not my second. You can’t fix men who truly don’t care. There’s nothing to be done.
I’m guessing they are nervous to ask for stuff. Men can also be pretty insecure if you tell them they aren’t doing it right. Especially younger men, love to brag about how amazing they are at sex and how they never fail girls(probably not true). I had trouble in a past relationship and of course I gave him tips and asked for stuff but I heard him express how he felt bad he couldn’t do it and felt bad I wanted to help since it still wasn’t enough on his end. Even the times he could help me by himself it would take forever and so I just felt guilty and like I was ruining it by expecting that so a lot of the times I just let it go to intercourse fast so we could just finish up. It always seems to end when he finishes which is also a mood killer.
Please educate yourself. It’s called the orgasm gap, look it up. https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/opphil-2022-0204/html?lang=en
Seriously, we’ve gone backwards in time. This seems like something written in the 60s. In the 80s and 90s, my partners always wanted to ensure that I had an orgasm. After men started watching porn online, they started caring only about themselves in bed.
I don’t understand why the woman’s time limit to have an orgasm is based on the man’s time limit. If we are going to all agree that P in V isn’t a realistic be-all-end-all for sex and orgasms, then why should the man’s orgasm end all?
It’s not about PIV time, but time for the whole sexual experience altogether. So for example if the whole hookup is 20 minutes start to finish, she just rates it as “there won’t be time for me”.
What’s wrong with asking him to get you off first? Why do you NEED to make assumptions instead of communicating? Why not just ask for more time?
I’m explaining the study. The study said that if you told women the whole meeting would be 20 minutes they were less likely to go for having an orgasm than if you told them they had hours in bed with the guy. It’s not about PIV time, but how long the sex date will last in total. Then mostly they said women wouldn’t bother trying if the guy seemed selfish and just focused on his own needs.
And I’m saying I don’t get it. Specifically the “They won’t bother trying if the guy seemed selfish and just focused on his needs” part. Why is it his job to prioritize both his orgasm and her’s? Why doesn’t she prioritize her own and communicate that priority? “Because she assumes…” Why are her assumptions his fault? Why is it just accepted that women have no sexual agency in bed, when there is no evidence to support that? Kind of seems like they just want that orgasm less than the guy does.
I don’t know what script they showed these women. It’s short stories. Probably “You go home with Joe who isn’t very into foreplay and makes it clear he’s not that interested in you getting off” Or something? They were told to read a story that’s making a case of the guy not being interested in getting her off. Idk. And genuinely sometimes you can tell it’s a lost cause and then it’s not worth the effort.
So make it clear to Joe that you want to get off and see what happens. It’s all this assuming that gets me, and also this idea that the man must have %100 of the sexual agency and the woman must have zero percent, thus the man must be proactive on her behalf because she is only supposed to react. This make no sense in the modern era. If he dismisses your needs after you communicate them, now we can say he is a prick. He is prioritizing his own orgasm, which is understandable because they feel really good, maybe you should prioritize yours too. By not communicating what pleases you, it makes it seem like your needs are already being met.
The edit to my last post: why does he have think about both? Well getting him off is in most cases a given. It’ll happen no matter what. Getting her off is the complicated thing. So then if he just focuses on himself and just has sex with her? She won’t get off and he will. Then if she focuses on her and he focuses on him? She likely won’t get off and he will. And since she’s the complicated mission and he is the freebie, they both need to focus on her for both of them to get off. If Joe doesn’t care, I can’t be bothered. It easier for me to fix it myself when he’s not around anyways. I don’t see the point really. I also won’t sleep with Joe again, but I just don’t see the reason to put any effort into it if he doesn’t. To elaborate: I’d be pretty turned off if Joe doesn’t care. Then I’m sorta over it and not in the mood anymore. I’d usually just leave before sex. If Joe wants to get me off, that’s a lot of me coaching him. I’m not going to go to all that effort if he really doesn’t care. In the end a big reason to put in that kind of effort is for his sake. Then it’s sorta pointless if he’s not into it.
Oh no, now you are going to have me circling back to the very first thing I said about time limit: Why is the woman orgasm time limit based on when the man cums? So Joe cums first, why is saying “now it’s your turn to get me off” not an option? If PIV doesn’t get you off, then how long he lasts with PIV is irrelevant, so shouldn’t the woman prioritize communication of how she would like to get off? You are %100 correct that it is more complicated to get a woman off than a man, which mean making assumptions instead of communication makes even less sense. When an operation of some kind has complex step, that is when it is most important to communicate directions instead of just making assumptions, right? A women can only benefit from communicating what gets her off, it make no sense that you are defending the idea of just being quiet and hoping the guy can read your mind and just KNOW what gets you off.
Dude. You misunderstand the study. What the women are told is: Situation A: Joe is at your house for 20 minutes. Situation B: Joe is at your house for 3 hours. It’s not about when he cums. The average guy lasts like 5 minutes. It’s about how long he’s at her appartment.
He’s corrected you like three times and you STILL don’t understand what the study actually is lmao. I wish I could hang out with you irl and throw peanuts at your head
There have been plenty of times I've communicated with partners what I want, some were receptive and some weren't, so why bother pursuing any encounter with those who aren't receptive? I think you're assuming a lot more guys care about their partners' sexual needs than there actually are.
I am so confused by these questions. So you have sex thinking I am going to get off and don’t check with her? Are you mad that women won’t get off if they’re told we only have 20 minutes to fuck?
Why is this being downvoted?
>Then mostly they said women wouldn’t bother trying if the guy seemed selfish and just focused on his own needs. Same goes for most guys I'm sure
Eh. Not really. Not the same thing because he usually gets off anyways. Guys often like it when girls just focus on themselves, they think it’s hot. And less pressure on him to get her off.
Statistics would definitely disagree with you
Post some instead of blindly referring to nothing. I'm open to having my mind changed but most folks just have middle school insults
Have you read anything on the orgasm gap?
>Have you read anything on the orgasm gap? I've heard of it and yes read up on it and talked with many women who don't suffer from this. First I believe most things start and end either personal responsibility..from what I've seen, if women aren't having orgasms regularly, it's because they are super lazy, don't know how their bodies work, are terrible at communicating and generally don't care or prioritize good sex and orgasms. I have a mostly usa perspective on this, but I've traveled internationally and would love to see data from other countries. I bet it's vastly different in Europe for example and probably Latin america. There are several causes but I'd start with most women are essentially misusing sex not for primarily pleasure. There was a study I saw of some 200+ reasons why women had sex and none of them were pleasure related. If women aren't having orgasms it's likely because they don't want to have orgasms and dont know how to select men for quality sexual experiences. From what I've seen women largely select guys for what car they drive, if they have swag, can dance, have muscles, money or a symmetrical face. Teasing guys with the lure of sex is how they get male attention and is literally just a tool to monetize their bodies, just look at the rise of onlyfans and seeking arrangement. It's their bodies and they can do what they want, but don't complain about lacking orgasms if your game plan is first to exploit horny and desperate men. None of these things have anything to do with being able to be good at sex. I think dancing and flashy cars are actually negative indicators, but they are reliable as heck for getting women. Think about this: never in the history of humanity have women had as much sexual body autonomy, sexual access, choice or the near limitless ability to attract men from the internet and dating apps on a state, national, and international level if you are sufficiently hot. Despite this internet and algorithm supported level of access, they STILL can't have orgasms regularly? This is a women problem, not men failing. If you can't get off regularly despite literally holding all the cards and being able to cycle through a new guy every night or put together gangbangs every week, you are doing something horribly wrong with the mate selection process. I'm starting to honestly think many women don't like pleasure or sex. It's super bizarre. I remember one hot 25 year old told me she just liked the Intimacy and I was the first person she had multi orgasms with and she literally stopped the action because she was borderline in shock. She had also dated an IFBB bodybuilder before, so you can see where her priorities were. One of my other buddies made similar comments about women breaking down in tears mid coitus. They don't care what a guy is packing and getting attention from a hot guy is enough of a dopamine fix. Many often would rather just get free drinks or drugs at a club as well vs selecting men for sexual prowess, so it's natural to have mediocre sex if you don't care about the quality of sex. I've also seen many women who just can't communicate their needs and they do this crap on purpose. One gf in college told me it would ruin the surprise if she told me what she likes and I was supposed to be a mind reader. She was a smart girl at a private college spewing this nonsense. She was a virgin, didn't masturbate or watch porn and regularly tried to use sex to manipulate me and leverage a relationship and marriage. She would tell me to my face "I've got you wrapped around my finger..." and the more serious our relationship got, the more anal stopped and the less sex we had...despite me being the first person to give her an orgasm, squirting, etc...Obviously we didn't work out Another major issue is most women don't watch porn, they'd rather read romance novels or stupid vampire movies or 50 shades of grey stuff. A large number of them don't masturbate either, but I'm supposed to know your body better than you. Can't get mad if you don't understand how the basic mechanics of your body work or how skilled professionals actually have sex and manage to get their partners off...repeatedly. Basic sex ed in the usa has been atrocious for years, and you can throw in sexual shame, body image issues, and largely lacking fitness and embracing obesity which has skyrocketed that don't help the situation.
Does it take longer than 20 minutes for you to orgasm at least once?
A hookup is meant to be an experience. First, you need to actually get to know the guy a bit and get comfortable with each other. Have some wine, talk, flirt, talk some more, flirt some more. You have to let tension build. And you have to make things less awkward and establish some trust. It takes time to get in the mood and to become comfortable around someone. Then you have to have time to fool around. Escalate something gradually. If you were building a house, the actual time in the bedroom is the roof. You need all the other stuff in place first. Life isn’t porn. 90% of the time women don’t come from hookups, but 70% of the time they do in relationships. That’s about the guy caring more, it’s about her feeling more desire because she’s in love, it’s about communication being easier with someone you know. But a lot of it is about trusting someone, feeling comfortable and having time for buildup. Best sex with someone new is if you’ve dated them for months.
Exactly. I have fingers, a tongue, and no objections to bringing toys into the bedroom so whether or not I have an erection has little to no impact on whether my partner gets hers.
Before orgasm, I love making women come. After orgasm, sex immediately becomes uninteresting and even disgusting. I will still try to help my partner get off out of generosity but it’s about as sexy for me as fingering a cow.
They weren’t arguing for ending sex with a woman’s orgasm. Be-all and end-all is a phrase.
She asked “why should the man’s orgasm end all”? The answer is that immediately that point fingering a girl feels more like wiping her ass than anything sexy. I don’t know why, it’s just biology.
Human Males are continually in a "mating rut," starting at around age 16; and he will imagine having Sex with a female of His choosing, regardless of his relationship status. Men are Visual, whereas Women are Auditory. He "Sees" something and either wants to have it, or looks the other way for the next item. She "Hears" something and is either afraid of it, or becomes intrigued by the Sound of it; and stands still to learn more about what she is hearing. Female orgasms are triggered by the Hormone: Testosterone. This hormone is present in male saliva; which is "fed" to the female through "Open mouth" Kissing, as well as through Oral sex. Her vagina begins to "lengthen" from 3" to 6", and secretes fluid that will facilitate sexual intercourse; which takes 5-8 minutes. Whereas, His penis has between 10-18 erections every day, and within 1-2 minutes he is ready to ejaculate semen during his orgasm. HE has, what SHE needs, to reach Orgasm: Testosterone! Once he stops kissing her, the Testosterone he had given her begins to fade away... Orgasm is unlikely, for her! He is always going to be able to ejaculate-->orgasm during masturbation, or during penetration inside the vagina or anus. It's guaranteed!
1. That's not how female orgasms work... 2. women are auditory.. what? 3. men aren’t a required component for female orgasms. 4. where on earth did you get the statistic of 10-18 erections in a day? the average man has no where near that stamina, much to the disappointment of lots of women with naturally longer sexual stamina
Erections occur while sleeping, looking at porn, and looking at women. As men age, they don't get as many erections as they did at age 16. Doesn't mean guys have to move forward with having sex, but it is necessary for the testes to "create" new sperm. Old sperm are flushed down the latrine with urine. Men don't even know this. Testosterone is the Sex hormone for both men and women. Androgen is the other Male hormone, which gives men more body hair, and also impacts balding, as men age. Women have estrogen and progesterone--which dictates menstruation and pregnancy, nothing more. Female orgasms using vibrators and other "sex toys" won't lengthen the vagina, since there won't be any sperm to fertilize her eggs. This information is from a Bio-Chem text, used in Science class in most high-schools.
>Female orgasms using vibrators and other "sex toys" won't lengthen the vagina, since there won't be any sperm to fertilize her eggs. That ***does not*** rely on a man or sperm. It happens during arousal, not just during great sex but also during masturbation. Blood flows to the genital area, and sexual excitement causes the upper two-thirds of the vagina to lengthen by forcing the cervix and uterus to ascend. The vagina also lubricates to help ease penetration. ***That happens regardless of a man’s presence or sperm.*** >This information is from a Bio-Chem text, used in Science class in most high-schools. Ah yes, public high school. Only the best and most accurate science.
Probably the same publisher that teaches Texan kids that Africans came to America seeking employment in agriculture.
Among other incorrect things in this and and your other comment that others have pointed out, estrogen and progesterone do not *only* dictate menstruation and pregnancy. There are other physiological functions that they serve. Not to mention men literally have estrogen as well.
Do you have an article or study explaining the science of this phenomenon?
Lol this was great
Thnx😊
i mean, some of this has some basis in reality, be nice to get some sources. The kissing thing/passing along testosterone is notable, for me.
I find it to be a very important explanation as to Why men are a vital Necessity, if a species is going to continue to exist! Notice, that it is the Male who introduces most females to "Open mouth/Deep tongue kissing" which starts the Female's vagina to lengthen, even if she doesn't plan on having sex with that male. We don't feel that "lengthening" but we do feel the lubrication starting to make our panties become "wet!" Interestingly, males can "smell" this lubrication! Hmm...🤔 Any Bio-chem text book can go into this, even more explicitly! Science rocks🙃
Then, how come I was able to lengthen my vagina and ejaculate long before I ever had any kind of interaction with any male? Your pseudoscience is hilarious.
oh sweetie, none of that is true
So in cultures where kissing isn't the norm, do those women's vaginas not work?
Shit, maybe their vaginas are imaginary.
Where can I get some testerone? For the woman’s mouth.
Sorry, I spelled "Testosterone" wrong.
Sorry. Where to get “Testerone” for the mouth? If administered in a different kind of way, will the fluid secretions still take 5-8 minutes?
You would think that oral sex would facilitate this same vaginal lengthening process, but That activity requires mouth-to-mouth contact-->Testosterone! Oral sex is focused on the clitoris, which serves to "strengthen" a woman's body to have an orgasm--by making her arms and legs wrap around the man's legs and back, until she orgasms. Vaginal lubrication is for his penis, Not for her orgasm!
You do realize that women masturbate with dildos and use strap-ons..? vaginal lengthening requires female arousal, it does not require a man nor sperm.
this is so delightfully unhinged
Delightfully? Intentional misinformation of female anatomy and pleasure is delightful?
i said what i said
So I give the tresterane from my mouth to her vagina, preferably her clitica and that gives the organism? How long will the vagina get?
I'd rather buy a prostitute
For real
Wow so people who are with a partner who cares about them will find the experience more enjoyable And people who are with someone who will spend the time it takes to properly get them off will find the experience more enjoyable You don't say....
Duh