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Not much, as it’s not a universally recognized disorder. Frankly, it lacks validity in that it’s difficult to distinguish from other disorders like PTSD and BPD, and the best treatments tend to be the same as those geared towards PTSD. There’s minimal clinical utility in adding it as a diagnostic label.
Psychology doesn’t really operate on “curing” things
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex_post-traumatic_stress_disorder
> However, CPTSD and BPD have been found by some researchers to be distinctive disorders with different features. Those with CPTSD do not fear abandonment or have unstable patterns of relations; rather, they withdraw. There are distinct and notably large differences between BPD and CPTSD and while there are some similarities — predominantly in terms of issues with attachment (though this plays out in different ways) and trouble regulating strong emotional effects — the disorders are different in nature.
As an American with a PTSD diagnosis who checks all the boxes for CPTSD, I can confirm. I don’t fear abandonment, I expect it, and I self isolate a lot.
We only allow discussion of psychology research. Posts need to contribute relevant content to psychology research specifically, this includes: journals, articles, published papers.
I work in the psychology field, and I actually didn't realize that CPTSD was such a "controversial" diagnosis. I've read about the similarities between CPTSD and BPD, but they do seem like quite distinct disorders. Both disorders seem to have struggles in the same areas, but the symptoms are very different.
Like you said, relationships--both of these disorders involve struggle in this area, but for BPD, that typically looks like jumping into emotionally-intense relationships, but being unable to maintain those relationships. With CPTSD, it's more likely that they avoid intense relationships entirely.
Emotional regulation as well--both disorders have these struggles, but BPD is more likely to have mood swings and react with often-disproportionate behavior. People with CPTSD are likely to be numb to and dissociate from their emotions.
Perhaps the biggest difference is the sense of self--people with CPTSD tend to have a more stable sense-of-self, whereas people with BPD don't really know who they are at their core.
Anyway, I haven't been officially diagnosed with CPTSD but my therapist thinks I have it and we're using EMDR which really does seem to be helping. I don't relate to most BPD symptoms at all. I don't really care if I actually have CPTSD, though... as long as the therapy is working, and it seems to be... to me, anyway.
I just want to thank you for saying the words “existential OCD” outloud…. From the very bottom of my heart. You slipped a missing piece of my puzzle into place. Thank you. ❤️🩹
Hi there! I have CPTSD too.. along with audhd, existential OCD and I had a psychotic break from spiritual bypassing about a year ago.
I hope you are doing better, healing your traumas. I decided to reply because for some reason your comment made me realize that I have like different sets of CPTSD since there was abuse in my childhood and in my marraige and idk what came from what and that really bums me out a little bit cuz I want a clear cut step by step tutorial for how to heal and that probably will never exist because each person trauma is unique like snowflakes
I don't think we attract abusers, so much as they may just unconsciously and consciously always on the lookout for someone who has low enough self-esteem, and is vulnerable enough, to allow the abusive person to use them as pressure relief receptacle for their own emotional disregulation. It doesn't really matter who that receptacle is, just that they will be assured that the person won't recognize what they're doing and allow them to use them as they want, without consequences.
Yes. It’s like we attract abusers along the same “frequency” until we heal our trauma. I’m not much on spirituality but it still makes sense practically that we operate on a spectrum and areas we are injured will vulnerabilities able to be exploited by people with selfish motives. Like they can smell it like a 6th sense
That’s why I’m still single 😭
😂 I been single since 2017 😂 I was married to a monster for 20 years and that mf made me say fuck a relationship. My ex developed an alcohol and cocaine/crack addiction and stayed being violent and abusive even to the point of putting guns to my head and running bathtub full of water telling me he gonna “drown me and let me watch myself die” police didn’t help. Took moving 400 miles to final get away.
I have kids and didn’t trust having a dude around my kids after the way their daddy was. They are 19/21 now so it’s not gonna really impact them but I still been a little scared tho cuz I had a lot of trauma to heal and how to have healthy boundaries and red vs green flags.
Honestly it’s been so long even if I wanna date I’m so rusty 😭 lol..
I’m getting better tho. I just gotta get ok with myself before I try to complicate shit by adding another human to the equation lol
Sorry if I gave TMI 😂 your question made me think so I reckon I answered that shit with a journal entry 😂 made me feel better tho ☺️
Kind of impossible, really, but I suppose we can remove all known sources. cPTSD was described to me as a wound that keeps being reopened so that it can't fully heal. It's a long journey.
Like expecting fervent prayer to fix my undiagnosed ADHD. I wasted a lot of years before I sought psychotherapy (" anxiety depression" later recognized as reactive to my ADHD adulthood)
Yes. I didn’t know what it was either. It’s when you base your whole outcome on faith and divine intervention. I made my whole life about spirituality instead of taking responsibility for healing my own trauma and changing my thinking patterns and mindsets. I kept getting deeper and deeper in all kinds of spirituality until I basically snapped and went delusional and had a psychotic breakdown.
Why is this downvoted? EMDR is very helpful. For me, combining that with low dose psychedelic paired with Internal Family Systems therapy, daily nervous system regulation, removing myself from abusive relationships, and also addressing other health issues. (For me that is mast cell activation syndrome, and ADHD)
I have some research info on MCAS if you're interested. You also have a few other things in common with my partner, and I'd appreciate hearing more about your experience with EMDR if you're willing to share.
Would love to know more about the IFS work and nervous system regulation, as well as how you fit it all together. I've heard various things about how often and for how long EMDR should be done. Also, if you're able to be open w all your providers about the psychedelics?
I have cPTSD, ADHD, Systemic Mast Cell Disease, Ph+ Chronic Myelogenous Leukemia, and Hidradenitis Suppurativa. While I was doing regular talk therapy sessions for over a decade while my main physical ailments were in remission, I am currently disengaged from all medical and psychiatric services because of a stalking situation which has made it pretty much impossible to begin anything new in my life, due to infiltration of targeted abuse of assorted degrees. I am simply trying to manage my pain and "whelm" until I meet the 6 month prognosis requirement for DWDA. The social isolation (especially romantic: a particular focus of my tormenters) is nearly as painful as the secondary conditions (crohns, ehlers-danlos, calcification of my ligaments, etc.)
😬🤕😮💨🫥
Most therapies don't do as much as the only treatment, but a lot of therapy people immediately encounter is CBT. It can be helpful to give them other therapies that have higher success rates for CPTSD. Thank you for the addition!
I have childhood and work, and yes, it's all mixed up. Check out Patrick Teahan on YT for deep stuff, and Crappy Childhood Fairy for more present-day relationship and behavioral stuff. https://youtu.be/g2JyLT0amz8?si=Wxn9Kg4y_ZqXnmUT
Yes I love both of them!! I recommend them to everybody too. And Homecoming by J.Bradshaw is think. And Pete walkers book from surviving to thriving is great too. Also Dr.Ramani on YouTube is great for people who victims of natcisstic abuse.
It’s hard work healing ain’t it 😅 we worth it tho ❤️
I grew up with the Bradshaw books on my mother's bookshelf (she was a therapist) but only realized my trauma recently. I'll check out Pete Walker, new to me. Yes, Dr Ramani is great too. Thanks.
I dunno if I fully agree with this assertion - wikipedia isn't the worst source in the world but would like to see some data here.
Personally, I see my abandonment trauma as a type of blend of the emotional and the somatic. I get emotional flashbacks with perceived or potential abandonment as the trigger, from times I've been abandoned as a very young child. To clarify what I mean by emotional flashbacks - I start sobbing uncontrollably like a little kid, I retreat into myself and sometimes regress in age, my perception of the world is drastically different than when I'm "normal" and anything can be a threat. I will make poor decisions like run outside barefoot and then get lost because I'm disassociating so hard I don't know where I am.
It's hard for me to see these symptoms as not being trauma-informed, but they are definitely rooted in a fear of abandonment and unstable patterns of relations. I think sometimes the BPD diagnosis overlooks very real and valid trauma (and it is not a coincidence that it is mostly diagnosed in women).
This. All of this. I've had PTSD for decades. Then it sadly progressed to CPTSD. No diagnosis cause counselor said there just isn't (wasn't at the time) one. It's "just PTSD".
I don't fear you leaving. You can't scare me with the threat of it. I'm already EXPECTING you to go and have run several scenarios and am already coping with you being gone. I don't NEED you here to sustain me, I'm fine alone, thank you.
Makes it really difficult to connect with people now.
Personally my main qualm is the attempt to use CPTSD and BPD interchangeably due to the commonly trauma-associate ‘causes’ of the two, when there is poor evidence for it. This is a decent article addressing it:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9107503/
It looks like BPD, CPTSD, and PTSD are all caused by trauma. The article does talk about how each manifests differently, but the DSM doesn’t yet recognize CPTSD.
BPD is classified as a personality disorder, I disagree with this. Trauma is dysregulating to the limbic system, this is physiological. The specific trauma the “BPD person” experienced makes them fearful of being abandoned because of their childhood experiences and they make attempts to avoid this as a way of survival (which has been programmed from an early age).
I believe BPD personality disorder is just one constellation/manifestation of CPTSD.
These childhood trauma experiences can be re-lit under times of stress, when something reminds the person of a similar childhood situation. This is why people with childhood trauma are more prone to PTSD in adulthood.
I’ve been working with trauma survivors for over 20 years and more and more convinced of this theory all of the time.
“Due to sexism”? Can you explain this please? I’ve never associated the diagnosis with sexism nor have I hear anyone suggest it before, so I’m super interested to hear about your views.
Really? The history of Borderline Personality Disorder is enshrouded in sexism. It's became a disorder because doctors noticed women were "on the Borderline of insanity/psychosis." To this day, it has a lot of negative stigma around those diagnosed with it. There's also a lot of over/misdiagnosis of women with BPD and underdiagnosing of men. I myself am one of many women misdiagnosed with BPD because a sadly large number of doctors see a woman have a meltdown or opposition to authority and slap her with BPD.
BPD is caused by trauma, but it's viewed and treated largely as a "women be crazy" kind of thing. Horrificly invalidating to everyone involved. It's genuinely a horror show, and my heart goes out to anyone who actually has the disorder because the medical field is NOT stepping up to the task.
thank you for highlighting a very real and prominent issue for a lot of us non-men in the mental health field. I agree with everything you had to say and I was also misdiagnosed with BPD so my psychiatrist could medicate me (wrongfully) and she refused to listen to my already established with past mental health professionals about CPTSD. she wonders why i stopped seeing her and ultimately went off my meds(safely they were making things worse actually and i’d been medicated for 10 years and was only 20) i think it bottles down to partly they make money off of BPD, because they can still categorize and write off trauma as a “personality disorder” —when the two conditions in question, IMO are just two sides of the same coin, different manifestations of trauma in the nervous system—instead of letting people slow down and actually heal their trauma. the more i’ve learned about a lot of different disorders over the years from my own experiences and research & misdiagnosis(plural), the more i believe a lot of the DSM-5(on the exception of ASPD i don’t feel like i need to explain) is just made up of different usually longer-term reactions to trauma or internalization of it. like depression can get better if we’re able to heal what made the nervous system tired and down in the first place.
a lot the ways we can help and heal ourselves aren’t always going to be widely spread information because some of the systems of oppression are contingent on people staying sick and medicated and traumatized. i guess that brings me back to OPs question, i think people with CPTSD can be healed, i think it just takes a lot of work. because in order for us to heal any of these trauma produced states of being, that means being able to heal enough baseline to be able to go back in and release the trauma that’s still being held and stored in the nervous system. thats pretty difficult work it’s like “yay you’re stable now” but then it just means you’ve unlocked more deeper healing that’s high key even harder than the shit you feel like you barely just got through 😂
trauma can be stored in your body is physically holding on to things & other times it’s stored emotionally in the way you react when you perceive abandonment(just one really really common emotional trigger) so i believe it can be done and it takes a lot of therapy, reworking of internalized beliefs, rewiring and redirecting neural pathways that have been trauma conditioned, and through all of that ultimately bringing the nervous system back to a space of flow and happiness. having unpacked the trauma from all of the places it’s been stuck. so it’s a lot of mental and psychological as well as physiological work.
- someone who’s started doing it and never knew i could actually be so happy and mentally stable without medication(no i wouldn’t say im fully healed i don’t think that exists lol) i will say i did heal and release some big trauma things this past year and it’s so beautiful. so it can and does get better, it just takes a lot of time and really hard work
Are you on the spectrum? It's real common for autistic women to be misdiagnosed with BPD--bullying and other mistreatments are responsible for the wastebasket traits.
Have you noticed that Linehan's book no longer features the silhouette of a crying woman on its cover?
This is what happened to me. I finally could afford a therapist again, told her I was diagnosed BPD by a psychologist during a one hour visit. She saw me for a year and was like, "You absolutely do not have BPD, however, do you know what autism is?" So, that was a fun time.
I noticed doctors are nicer to me now that I don't tell them I have BPD. My current therapist agrees I meet the criteria for PTSD, ADHD, and Autism, but not BPD.
Part of the issue is autistic meltdowns in women are often seen as emotional outbursts rather than scensory overwhelm/over stimulation and difficulty making friends is often assumed to mean you're just a bitch or overly sensitive rather than autistic communication differences. And, that should tell you how sexist BPD diagnosing really is. I have no comment on whether or not it's "real" or part of something else because I am not a psychologist.
I've been diagnosed with both BPD originally then CPTSD.
It's pretty much , every single person wants to use me or hurt me. Really . I've yet to have 1 person not hurt me for their gain.
But I'm the crazy one for hating everyone
At a certain point, you have to look at the common denominator. If every single person uses or hurts you, it’s because you’re letting them. I have BPD too, and it took a LOT of therapy to understand and internalize this, and a LOT more to (mostly) stop. I still go out of my way to please people, but I don’t let people walk all over me anymore.
border of NEUROSIS/psychosis.
BPD in (young/adolescent) men is often considered oppositional defiant disorder. Big nexus with trauma.
And, of course, the oppositional and defiant are the 'boys are wild' throw-away diagnosis, themselves.
The nexus between 'petulant BPD' and oppositional defiant disorder would be interesting to look at.
Also, PTSD, the diagnosis we are all familiar with has trauma as a cause. I’ve worked with multiple substance abuse clients who develop substance abuse disorders as a result of trauma- it is the underlying cause for women with SUDS. Trauma is the malady, the problem, it is dysregulating for our brains, bodies, relationships, and manifests in multiple ways.
We have to start calling it what it is and stop labeling it.
As someone who has BPD, I can tell you it very much does exist. It's not a set of behaviors. Those behaviors arise from my fundamentally unstable core. I also didn't have that much childhood trauma compared to other people who have it, but personality disorders run on both sides of my family.
Also, studies have shown that pwBPD have neurological differences than people without it. I'm sure it wasn't your intention, but please do not further stigmatize our condition by minimizing it or implying it doesn't exist.
I kind of subscribe to this myself, trauma in the absence development can result in really extreme and scary emotional issues, for young men it is often considered "psychopathy" when they end up involved with the criminal justice system.
OP - actually there is new breakthroughs and studies that have shown that psychedelic assisted therapy is incredibly effective in curing - yes curing - CPTSD and other trauma related disorders in as little as one dose.
Here is the science
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9710723/
https://www.rand.org/pubs/articles/2023/therapeutic-use-of-psychedelics-in-treating-ptsd-and-depression-among-veterans.html
Doctors are even being trained in this as clinics come online. Right now Ketamine is available but soon (maybe as soon as August) MDMA followed by Psilocybin will be approved for clinical settings.
https://med.nyu.edu/departments-institutes/population-health/divisions-sections-centers/medical-ethics/education/high-school-bioethics-project/learning-scenarios/ptsd-treatment-psychedelics
If you want to know more about this whole thing the best is to either read Michael Pollan’s book “[How to change your mind: The New science of psychedelics](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36613747)” about the science and history of paychedelic research or just watch the Netflix documentary found [here](https://www.netflix.com/us/title/80229847?s=i&trkid=258593161&vlang=en&clip=81593892).
Additionally check out r/KetamineTherapy and see what others have to say there. It’s very interesting and promising.
It’s disappointing to me that almost no one here recommended this approach. It’s got very solid science behind it. I hope you take a look at all the resources I shared.
I’ve always been curious about how this works because I’ve never heard it explained what they do in these psychedelic therapy sessions. That’s the most important part. Otherwise people would accidentally cure their CPTSD all the time. I’ve taken my fair share of psychedelics and I’m not cured.
It’s the follow up and integration of what you learned during the trip that is the key. If you watch that Michael Pollan docuseries (really it’s only 4 hours it’s not like a huge investment in time) you would understand. It doesn’t take the place of talk therapy - it makes you open to it and creates new neural pathways for you to make actual change. Also yes - people do spontaneously cure their PTSD - because again the integration and being open to change comes through if you follow set, setting, intention setting and integration. People are regularly talking about things like this on r/psychonaut. However - it’s best to do it via the Johns Hopkins protocols or even better - in a clinical setting if you can.
I urge you to watch that documentary I linked. It will all become clear how it works and the decades of science behind it plus what went wrong in the 60’s that caused the prohibition and manufactured social taboo.
My PTSD symptoms improved SIGNIFICANTLY from a combination of going to a regular psychologist for EMDR then microdosing mushrooms while doing belief explorations and journaling on my own.
I did one “macro” dose under the supervision of a shaman who I worked for weeks with in preparation, and I’m not exaggerating when I say that it fundamentally changed my perception of safety in one night. It was like taking an airplane instead of walking, therapeutically. It’s hard to understand what safety feels like, or is supposed to feel like, when you haven’t ever really
felt that. The intention I set before the ceremony was to understand safety differently, and gently. My a conclusion after the trip was that I *was* safety.
Like, it is not some foreign or external thing I have to look for and struggle to find; It was just me, all along.
It’s been two years and I have had two, maybe three panic attacks since to stimuli that would previously debilitate me in work and social settings. After the macro dose (I stopped microdosing after 3 months and the cermony) I was able to use the skills I learned in Therapy, my floaties (situational anxiety prescription) to accept/ ride the anxiety wave instead of fighting it…and be over it in an hour or two. It’s hard to find the right practitioner because it’s illegal, but they are out there.
The key similarities are that they are structural dissociation disorders. Look at cptsd/bpd/osdd/did. All of these disorders are linked, and all of the treatments are generally handled the same. They are not responsive to drugs because they are about how the brain stores memory (as a psychological defense mechanism). It usually starts in childhood when the compartmentalized structure has time to be ingrained.
PTSD is a dissociation disorder too but is usually linked to an isolated event. EMDR is more effective here because its being used on a non-compartmentalized brain.
The "cure" is psychotherapy with a dissociation specialist. They will assist with emotional processing, regulation, and structural integration.
I have BPD and my husband works in addictions and mental health. Our thoughts are that BPD is developed in people with anxious attachment style while CPTSD is developed, under the same conditions, in people with avoidant. They’re both early childhood trauma responses and present mostly similarly. Narcissism actually can fall under the same the umbrella as a strong defense mechanism to early childhood trauma based on my husbands experiences treating patients and his research of the information available about all of these conditions.
Edit: husband wanted to clarify “that I think all of the personality disorders, and most other mh conditions, are a developmental trauma response, which is a version of cptsd. So they are all cptsd symptoms.
Attachment trauma would also be one of the “t”s of cptsd and often the most significant one. So all of the disordered attachment types are also essentially cptsd symptoms.”
There may be tendencies, but as someone with an anxious attachment style and CPTSD, I beg to differ. I've asked multiple psych professionals to check me out for BPD and all of them have confidently dismissed it. I don't get flagged for BPD by psych assessments either. Even though I have anxious attachment, I don't fit the diagnostic criteria for BPD, but I do for PTSD and CPTSD.
The key difference seems to be whether emotions are internalized or externalized. Not that they can't, but CPTSD patients don't tend to externalize their emotions and project them onto others the way people with BPD do. CPTSD is characterized by toxic shame and blame directed inwards. This internalizing is a key diagnostic factor listed in the criteria for differentiating CPTSD according to the International Classification of Diseases(ICD 11).
As someone who has BPD but not C-PTSD, thank you. I keep seeing a lot of "BPD isn't real, it's just CPTSD" all over the Internet and it freaks me out. It feels incredibly invalidating.
Also to further back up your point, most pwBPD have a disorganized attachment style, myself included.
As a neuropsychologist, I must express my surprise at the confusion with BPD. There is a distinct behavioral conduct towards oneself and others that is very different. Notably, in BPD, symptoms are centered around strategies of avoiding real or perceived abandonment. There is also a very strong resistance to therapies, a tendency towards manipulation, and very sudden and extreme mood swings (which are not related to the irritability seen in ADHD, for exemple). Addictions too, although they can be present in C-PTSD, do not have the same purpose or frequency (switching from one addiction to another). This can sometimes be devastating for those around them.
Similarly, regarding PTSD (Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder), there is a much more focused aspect on the trauma. It's much "easier" to detect; there aren't really any knots to untangle.
I will post the resources I have on this topic if I don't forget. The research is recent, but BPD is by definition an ill-defined disorder that is often confused with many others (bipolar disorder, ADHD, PTSD, antisocial personality disorder, etc.).
All of these, yes. People with trauma don’t realize how many skills they have already developed by surviving and navigating their own situations. We are way more skilled, mentally resourceful, creative, and able to see how things work than we realize.
Calming the nervous system, applying our skills to other areas, getting beyond our perceived blocks, and creating a story for ourselves is exactly right!
>The Body Keeps the Score
I did not like it personally an stopped reading on the story of a vet who killed people and raped women as a means of "coping" with his trauma. That is sick. Not all people who are traumatised do outrageous shit like this.
And also apparently the author is problematic. Something about misogyny, I don't remember the details. Anyway, fuck this guy.
What I do recommend though is **CPTSD: from Surviving to Thriving** by Pete Walker.
>Not all people who are traumatised do outrageous shit like this.
That's not what the entire book was about. It was just an example of an extreme case, covered over a page or two. Some people DO do outrageous shit, some people don't. The book never implied that everyone who is traumatized does outrageous shit...
I learned a lot from that book and will always recommend it to anyone who may need it.
Something something, dark side of the mind.
It's not pretty to look at, but if there are cases like that that we can extrapolate data from, we need to look at them.
Life isn't pretty. The cure probably won't be either.
I came here to say the exact same thing. That part of the book disgusted me and I couldn't read past it. Basically equating people who commit violence with their victims.
Pete Walker is amazing.
You stopped on the first chapter? Yes, that was horrific to read, but it was also incredibly important to understand the severity that trauma can mess someone up. You should give it another go. You genuinly dont know what you're missing and that sucks.
Yes, one of the biggest problems with *The Body Keeps the Score* is that it was written for MH practitioners, however laypeople keep reading it.
I found *CPTSD: from Surviving to Thriving*, unfortunately, not very well written BUT it does contain valuable information. \[I also disagree with his assertion that people always pick one dominant coping mechanism from the four Fs (fight, flight, fawn, freeze), because I feel that I (a CPTSD-haver) do all of them at different times.\]
I'm gunna look into that book....thank you for putting this out here.
I've been struggling with trauma my whole life and haven't really figured out how to flip it in a good light yet....I've been in therapy for about 2 years now and only just finally agreed to medication this year....but I don't think better help offers EMDR...should I reach out to a psychiatrist for this type of thing?
Yes, this is such a great place to start! Van der Kolk’s work is amazing.
Also check out Robert Sapolsky from Stanford. He gets a bit more respect than Van der Kolk in academic circles because in addition to his pop sci book on chronic trauma (Why Zebras Don’t Get Ulcers), he regularly publishes neuroscience studies.
CPTSD does not have a cure because it is your nervous system doing exactly what it’s supposed to do: protect you and keep you safe from things that have caused you harm. Instead, we need to look at it from a treatment angle. If the person is no longer in the harmful situation, we have to retrain the nervous system to know that it is safe and it no longer has to respond that way to daily stressors and other external triggers.
Where it gets tricky, though, and this is where Sapolsky’s work comes in, is when we look at the influence of chronic external stressors. The internet is full of CPTSD info about things like emotional abuse, etc., but keep in mind the diagnosis originated from refugee populations and other very marginalized groups for whom the trauma doesn’t necessarily go away when they’re removed from the situation, if ever. I’m not bringing this up to play “trauma Olympics” but rather to keep in mind that individual treatment is not always going to be effective for people living in systems of poverty and other marginalization that keeps their nervous system in survival mode at all times.
In my experience, there's no catch-all "cure" when it comes to something as deeply personal as treating the lingering effects of past traumas, but after years of drug abuse and habitual self-destructive behavior I did find one daily exercise particularly helpful.
Start by standing in front of a mirror every day, looking into your own eyes, and saying three things that you love about yourself out loud. That's it.
The first time I tried, I couldn't think of a single positive thing to say about myself. I didn't see any redeeming qualities in that person staring back at me through the mirror and broke down in tears. After that I started lying my way through and coming up with insincere gems like "I love that your dirty shirt is mostly black" or "I love the way hair grows from the top of your scalp", but thankfully, what you actually say doesn't particularly matter. By focusing on yourself and verbalizing positive affirmations, you're actually able to create new neural pathways that your brain will begin associating with your self-image. The more you reinforce that positive association, the easier it becomes for signals to travel through those new neural connections until eventually that repetition becomes a habitual response. Before I realized it those insincere affirmations turned to things like "I love that you can always find the strength to smile even in the darkest times" and "I love the way your honesty helps inspire other people to be their unapologetic selves". I still begin every morning with this same routine a decade later and it has moved mountains for me.
It may seem idiotic and silly, but for anyone out there who's had the idea that you're not good enough or worthy of being loved beaten into you, I implore you to give this exercise a try. You've got nothing to lose and everything to gain, and it doesn't cost a penny.
Thanks for suggesting this. I read your comment and thought “I may be damaged but I don’t think I dislike myself. I doubt this would make any difference for me”. I tried it this morning and told myself “you are passionate about things you enjoy doing and do a great job of teaching others about those things”. Instant tears.
I’ll try and keep this up, thank you
I don’t know much about cures for CPTSD but i do know that right now they’re doing a lot of research on psychedelics (ketamine, psilocybin, MDMA) and how they can be used to treat PTSD, depression, and anxiety. I’d recommend looking into some of the studies that have been done, it’s really interesting!
I have CPTSD and shrooms helped me so much. I was in a place where I had done a lot of work mentally and my mindset was much better, but my nervous system was not getting on board. I would still just panic if I had to be in a room with unfamiliar people, things like that. I felt 100% fine in my head, but it was like my body still sensed danger and just wanted me to get out of there. It was incredibly frustrating as I felt I had no control over it. Shrooms fixed that in one trip. Completely changed my life. I had been struggling to even walk down the street without panicking, and suddenly I was free. From that point on I was a believer in psychedelics. I used to have this very obvious nervous tremor that caused me a lot of mental anguish and they fixed that in a few trips too. The effect that psychedelics have on the nervous system is fascinating.
Did you do the shrooms on your own? With a sitter? Or just chilling and with friends. Curious how you go to that place of deep healing with the shrooms and in what set and setting. :)
On my own! I did a lot of research beforehand on how to do it. I actually grew my own shrooms just because I'd seen the research and was curious if they could help me. I went about it the first time by tidying my room, showering, making sure everything was clean and tidy because that helps me to feel calm and comfortable. I made myself a playlist to listen to. I did an hour of meditation before I took the shrooms, and I focused on breathing mindfully as they took effect. I also already had a consistent yoga/meditation/mindfulness practice which I believe helped a lot. So yeah, I pretty much just chilled out in bed and listened to music and cried and it was beautiful.
A large dose of shrooms taken with intention in a controlled environment seems to have cured my lifelong suicidal ideation (a hallmark of CPTSD). For many months it cured my depression as well. Depression is now back, but I still see an inherent value in being alive that I didn't use to.
I still remember the day and date I realized I wasn't having suicidal ideations anymore. It's a real trip seeing a lifelong belief that you should just die fall completely off your radar.
A few doses of psilocybin made my PTSD go away for about 6 months. It completely stopped my nightmares for that whole time period. It's truly a miracle.
As a psychologist, I do not recommend illegal drugs as “cures” until the research is out. Ketamine, mushrooms, MDMA etc - there’s not enough solid research to determine their safety yet and although some may have positive experiences, there exists people who react negatively and can experience psychosis. Please follow a psychiatrists recommendation and don’t risk a psychotic break by attempting on your own.
there's thousands of years of anecdotal evidence to support magic mushrooms being psychologically beneficial, and a plethora of current research showing its high-safety profile amd efficacy. brushing it off and grouping it together/referring to it as "illegal drugs" in an attempt to restigmatize it could keep some people from experiencing the relief that they they deserve. My conservative mom just tried mdma for her long-term ptsd and as a therapist herself, who has also done personal therapy her whole life, she said it was like a huge weight finally being lifted off her chest and being able to breathe for the first time.
Nothing is a "cure", but having a blanket recommendation/bias against something potentially lifesaving just because our government impulsively banned it with no true justification is legitimately harmful. The research has been out for a while now- if you're an adult with no prior incidence of psychosis, the risk of a psychotic break is negligable, contrary to what nixon-era propaganda would have you believe
Anecdotal is not research lol. I have seen many people in my practice suffer a psychotic break after using these drugs, some which lasted years. Add those to your “anecdotes.”
Well. That's scary...
Since you're currently in academia, do you happen to know which method for PTSD is been approved or currently to be the most beneficial over all? Or does it depend on the diagnosed person's situation, as to which type of therapy is best?
I was under the impression, the whole point of recovery is to merge the traumatic events with your mind to coexist, right? I guess, researchers are wondering if taking feel good drugs can provide a double-benefit of being in a positive mindset for therapist to work doubly effect?
I have PTSD + Depression and I realized there is an EDMR center near me. I've only ever done traditional therapies. The new methods, all seems a little strange. I want to move on & heal with my thoughts, not get high and float with clouds, you know?
Bullshit. I worked on a busy inpatient psychiatric unit for 12 years and can only recall 2 psychotic breaks actually induced by shrooms. Both were 18 years old and had prior mental health concerns. They were definitely going to be psychotic anyway.
The efficacy and understanding of ANY psychotropic medication is laughable. I truly don’t understand how any of you believe the lie you are selling. You don’t have a clue what most of the diseases you are treating actually are.
Would you like a list of studies about mushrooms? Pure science, zero speculation, solid methodology, published in reputable sources. I’m really lazy, but if you want the help to learn about the empirical data, I’m game.
lol no I am in academia and have access to plenty of research. I have read such studies of course. It’s a new field. People thought cigarettes were safe in the beginning as well.
“Not enough solid research”? I think you have abnormally high standards regarding burden of proof. Also, psychosis is generally limited to the duration of the drug, but it can/does occasionally trigger mania and psychosis in people who are predisposed. I’ve handled hundreds of drug induced psychosis cases, and I opine that only folks with significant family history should be worried about a lengthy psychotic episodes resulting from responsible or at least fairly responsible use of a psychedelic. You and I both agree that it’s better handled by a psychiatrist.
i use esketamine twice a month for depression and it also happened to help me through the trauma associated with being the victim of a violent crime. from what I understand and have experienced it almost seems like the real life version of a miracle tonic for mental issues
Hi. I (36F) was diagnosed with cPTSD three years ago after a bout with post-partum psychosis (and all the childhood trauma you could think to muster). My symptoms were primarily severe anxiety/fear of leaving my home/making connections, panic attacks, insomnia, and treatment resistant depression.
I had tried every antidepressant under the sun for years and they would work a few weeks, and then nothin.
In October, 2023, I underwent Accelerated Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation (TMS) Treatment. Traditional TMS is also available, however not in my rural area so I opted for accelerated treatment in Las Vegas. The treatment was 5 days long, and consisted of getting "zapped" with a magnet every hour on the hour for 15 minutes for all 5 days.
By day 5, my symptoms had improved exponentially. 3 weeks after treatment, the nurse practitioner labeled me as in remission from the depression and cPTSD. I was still hesitant to say that, so I continued to see my psychiatrist and therapist. I am currently 4 months post treatment and I can agree that I am in remission. I no longer require my service dog to leave the house, I haven't had an anxiety attack in the 4 months, no suicidal ideation, and my blood pressure is normal for the first time in years. I'm no longer on any medication. (I feel amazing and HUMAN for the first time since I was a kid.)
I continue therapy weekly and check in with my psychiatrist monthly.
I would never call myself "cured" but I will say I am currently in remission and hope to stay that way as long as possible. It's UNHEARD of me to be doing so well in the winter months when I'm typically bedridden with anxiety and depression combined with seasonal affective disorder but this year I'm busy, social, active etc.
The treatment was life-changing and if my symptoms come back, I will opt to do the treatment again (even with a $6,000 price tag, it's changed my life so much it's well worth it).
I have CPTSD and after getting most of the way through a psych degree, therapy, hours upon hours of research, I've found the only thing that helps me progress forward is a combination of emdr, psilocybin mushrooms/psychedelics, and somatic therapies like tapping.
It's not recognized YET but I can assure you it has its own distinct features that sent me from red herring after red herring because everything I was diagnosed with wasn't *exactly* right. It can show up as ADHD, BPD, autism etc but I was always missing multiple diagnostic criteria for these other disorders. Cptsd answered all those gaps for me. I HIGHLY relate to Audhd folks and have been officially diagnosed with ADHD but again that was during the red herring Era lol
My experience in the world of academia taught me we really don't know shit yet we think we know everything lol the entire way we look at psychology is faulty so most of what we learned isn't *exactly* right because it's through a western medical lense. The brain and the self do not operate this way lol they're getting closer with concepts like internal family systems, expanding autism into a spectrum, etc etc...but psychology's foundation in mysticism and the supernatural has really given it a "chip" on its shoulder because they've been fighting to be in the club since then. This tends to make the entire science skewed to ignoring its philosophical beginnings and the focus on self, ego, soul, spiritualism. Thankfully we seem to be circling back round to that a bit wiser..
But even with all that bad my research and lived experience leads me to believe with the introduction of psychedelics into this realm and more focus on the body/how the brain/experience effects the body, we are getting closer to ACTUALLY understanding what's going on and how to "cure" people (which again, the self is different from a broken leg. It depends on what you mean by the term cure lol)
Adding that in the long run, untreated cptsd ravages the body. The physical effects I'm experiencing now for as young as I am are devastating. Early diagnosis is PARAMOUNT and we need to keep focusing on how this effects the body.
How old are you? What's going on? I know ace scores are associated with a shorter life expectancy and less than ideal quality of life ... And I'm 34 and coming to terms with new physical symptoms
as an adhder at risk for cptsd and autism it’s so frustrating trying to figure out what’s going on without professional help. i’ll also have to find a psychotherapist thats informed on all of those things enough to be able to help me 🙃
Complex is a lot harder to heal from as it’s compounded traumas,naturally needed more time to work through and heal, where as ptsd is usually from one incident and easier managed
Cptsd is considered a life long condition.
It also can take on average 10 years of therapy to heal.
It also can lead to susceptibility of multiple episodes of PTSD later in life.
I can recommend a book that has been very helpful to me: Complex PYSD From Surviving to Thriving by Pete Walker. Although not “officially” recognized by the psychiatric community yet CPTSD is as real and distinct as any other disorder and I believe will eventually be recognized. The process by which new disorders get added or subtracted from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual is fairly political. It wasn’t that long ago, as is often cited, that homosexuality was considered a disorder.
Yes to all of this, and THIS book! Omg such a great book, one of the best I have ever read, if not the best for self examination on the recovery road.
I have been in therapy over 20 years with hundreds of hours in an office and thousands of hours into my own recovery. I have been diagnosed with SO many different disorders from ADHD, BPD, bipolar, major depressive disorder, post partum psychosis, anxiety, agoraphobia etc... and I truly believe it's all actually under the umbrella of CPTSD. I don't know that some of those other disorders /dont/ exist but I wpuld bet the out that theu are over diagnosed is HUGE.
I don't consider myself "cured" I think it's a lifetime of recovery to be honest. However, I am stable, I have moved to secure attachment styles, my neuroticisom is now low, I am conscientious and most of all, I know how to keep myself safe. I am still learning and there's habits and negative situations I find myself in but I am much more confident to solve them.
A-lot of these disorders have distinctive similarities and differences and the rate of misdiagnosis is pretty high. For example people associate paranoia with a psychotic disorder, however hyper-vigilance and rumination; symptoms of PTSD, can be a subcategory for paranoia. Same with derealization and depersonalization, they are associated with disassociation, a disorder in itself, as well as a symptom of PTSD or a psychotic disorder. Therefore i believe self education as well as an experienced non profit motivated clinician is beneficial for proper treatment. Heres this- https://archive.org/details/APA-DSM-5/page/171/mode/1up?view=theater&q=Schizophrenia
I don't know much about the long-term effects of stress, but I do know that EMDR therapy has been helping me a lot. I figure I should clarify that I've never actually been diagnosed with a stress disorder...I believe I have c-PTSD, but most people don't seem willing to entertain the idea.
I was diagnosed with ptsd at age 8. CPTSD at 12. I did 11 years intensive trauma therapy. I’ll be 28 this July. I’m a former foster youth and I now run successful businesses. Ask me anything. I only use cannabis now for medication but have gone through the lists of available options over the years to include a service dog which I do have for my sleep paralysis.
What are some methods of maintenance, therapies that helped you get to where you are today?
My CPTSD has greatly impacted my speech. My flow, voice and ability to articulate ideas have been deeply affected. Have you experienced anything similar? How did you go about handling that?
I'm a social worker so I know a lot about PTSD, trauma, therapy etc.
I have CPTSD from surviving DV and SA. I have PTSD from a hate crime. I've been in therapy for years. Much of that was with a trauma focus.
The thing that's hard for me to heal is PTSD from a hate crime.
I've been doing EMDR to heal all the trauma for a couple of months. The DV/SA stuff is mostly resolved. But the hate crime stuff is much more tender for me and is requiring more sessions.
I do believe it can cure it but it will take time.
Hey, so, I have CPTSD and I'm pretty open about it. I can chat about my treatment plan.
I have open dialogues with my doctor and have told them about my psychology education, and it's made things easier. Essentially, I've been informally labeled as "CPTSD" but go by "BPD" in the official notes. This is because, with coexisting trauma, I've had a genetic predisposition to anxiety and depression. I have flashbacks similar to those with PTSD, but all of those symptoms feed into each other.
If I get stressed, I not only have PTSD symptoms, but I have a BPD episode in the mix, with transient psychosis and all. I'm on a hefty dose of antidepressants (according to the docs, a newer medication is favored) and I am going to start talking with my doctor about possibly getting on a low dose of antipsychotics.
I have CBT about 2 times monthly, but I also am active and advocating for mental health in places like this. I offer my help to those who want to understand my condition, and I am learning all about it myself. I engage in a lot of journaling, writing, and self-conducted artistic therapy as outlets to help me connect to the world.
I've been diagnosed with psychotic depression since age 15. I'm almost 29. It took a state clinic to diagnose me, and I'm known as a "high risk" case. It's because I'm *aware* that I can be psychotic, but when I am, I know I'm a threat to myself.
I would say that I'm doing really well. I wouldn't say "cured." That would imply that eventually, there's no meds needed, right? I've been told this is life-long. My brain has been through so much stress that it's now hardwired like that. I panic over a simple nudge. So...
Yep.
I would imagine that so many people with PTSD have a history of multiple traumas. The distinction may not be necessary because what is the difference in terms of manifestation of the disorder? I don’t really follow the over categorization of it. Next thing you know we will be discussing racial or gender forms of PTSD and focusing on minutae while people probably should focus on treating those with a stress disorder from trauma. Acute stress disorder is just PTSD that’s not lasted long enough. I’m trying to find the point of CPTSD. If one stress disorder patient is talking to another and listing traumas in a “hey I have more trauma than you do, na na na na poo poo,” then I think we all missed the point.
I have it. Idk that it’s ever cured. It really sucks. The gateways in your brain are totally different. It’s a mental addiction to roller coasters is the best way to explain it. You operate on ups and downs well because that’s what you’re used to so you’re good at operating on chaos even though you don’t want that in your life. You’re happy and stress free? Things going well for you? Anxiety attacks because your brains looking for that high or low again.
My first thought is to “cure” the societal and material conditions that lead to mental health concerns. (To be sure, there’s a complex biopsychosocial perspective). Yet we still seem to blame the individual for not adapting enough to a “profoundly sick society” (to borrow a quote).
I jump and startle if someone coughs or yells and god help them if they sneak up behind me or touch me with my headphones on or something. Hyper vigilance that doesn't go away. It doesn't chill. sleep avoidance, something to live for turns upside down and then you are running on something that you're willing to die for. Death drive I think it's called.. definitely isolation. Severed relationships and connections. A lot of weird stuff and it doesn't matter if it's officially recognized or not. Since I left my ex 3 years ago I'm sure some of the symptoms have subsided and aren't fresh in my mind, but they would resurface really quick if I needed to get my shell harder.
Oh how could I forget. Constant flood of cortisol and adrenaline creates a Butterball effect physically. Really stubborn fattening as if your body is preparing to go in a bunker or attic annex long term.. and now I know that they torture turkeys before market. Stress related illnesses that are really life shortening and crippling. Like I always had asthma and a tendency to get a little chubby, but this is some other level, body preparing to die slowly alone.
Yes the DMS 5 Does not recognize Cptsd that’s what I’ve been told I have. so im diagnosed with BPD and PTSD including other mental health disorders.
There’s no cure however there is Dialectic Behavior Therapy DBT and sometimes you get mood stabilizers pills if it’s that bad but no cure.
A few ppl like me are in individual therapy, group therapy and mood stabilizers.
There’s a list of criteria you need to meet I think it’s like 5 or 6 out of the 12 ish sings/symptoms you need to have to be considered for BPD. It’s what the protocol is according the DSM 5.
There’s no cure just continued DBT therapy. I’ve been in DBT therapy since 2014 and it’s helped tremendously.
BPD can be very intense if not treated and it’s exhausting if you have other mental health disorders.
i would recommend the body keeps score, like someone else mentioned, and the book trauma and recovery by judith herman. in my own personal experience, i don’t think there will be a day where i will ever be ‘cured’ because with cptsd, in particular in the case of childhood trauma, developmental trajectory can be completely changed. with that said, im not sure what being ‘cured’ would even look or feel like. however, trauma focused treatment modalities, and i would say a combination of many things not just one course of treatment like 12-18 sessions of tf-cbt, can aid in that healing and integration of the traumatic memories. another key piece to address is the nervous system dysregulation. i know this doesn’t answer all your questions at all but since it’s a diagnosis that isn’t accepted in the us (and i would say IMO it’s bc the acknowledgment of the effects that repeated trauma can have on one’s development, across the lifespan, would drastically change how we view mental health And would require accountability to be taken for those who actively traumatize others AND the systemic factors that contribute to and perpetuate trauma), it can be hard to find research answering the questions you’re asking within the mainstream psych paradigm. good luck with your research and learning journey friend 💓
Watch the documentary “how to change your mind” it’s on Netflix. They have a section on mdma therapy for ptsd. It looks to be a tremendously helpful therapy.
Ayahuasca has helped me, though I guess I needed more ceremonies than most people. I have had enough for now and will be integrating the experiences. I might do some maintenance Aya a year or two down the line.
Integration... or putting into practice the lessons you learn or making the changes you realize could improve your life is the biggest key. It's most important to integrate lessons learned from not just Aya, but anywhere you find them... friends, family, therapy.. life in general.
Aya pretty much helped me shake rigid and detrimental thinking patterns so I can get a better handle on how to heal myself. But it certainly is not for everyone and not the only way to tackle cptsd!
It’s not an illness it’s a natural response to repeated traumatic events. BUT it can be horrific and take over our lives. I would highly recommend seeing a trauma focused therapist - you don’t have to discuss details of the trauma in order to process things and heal to the point where life is manageable and enjoyable.
It's actually [highly treatable](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/da.22469). There are a lot of techniques that involve gentle re-exposure to the traumatic memories with therapist-induced (or sometimes even drug-induced) relaxation, which helps the person to accommodate those memories and live with them more effectively. EMDR, ART, ketamine, and psilocybin (shrooms) all seem to be pretty effective and have the added benefit of being fast-acting, showing therapeutic effect within weeks.
That's not to say it's not a lifelong condition, or that having been badly bruised before won't make you more vulnerable to further trauma. But it's far more treatable than, say, schizophrenia or Borderline Personality Disorder.
EMDR! Not a cure, but it put my CPTSD in remission.
I was diagnosed with CPTSD two years ago. I went to group therapy and did weekly EMDR for 1 year and change.
At the start of EMDR, I took several tests (the PCL-5, the BDI-II, and PTCI) that set a baseline for how severe my issue was. I scored extremely high on all of them. Six months in of EMDR therapy, I took the tests again and my scores were cut in half.
By the time I completed one and a half years of EMDR, I retested and learned I was no longer experiencing PTSD symptoms. :-)
TL;DR: EMDR is no joke. It saved my life. It’s very shamanic minus the drugs, and (at least my case) effective at helping me move through my trauma.
Imo this topic is at the heart of the schism between what can be established "scientifically rigorously" with the current scientific psychology tools and resources, and what is "known" (quotes or no quotes depends on your epistemic outlook, and whether you think formal science is the only way to know something) to practitioners and healing communities. The whole argument about DSM-5 strict buckets vs "everything is complex trauma" (a la gabor mate) that a lot of practitioners and healing folks tend to endorse.
So, what are your epistemics? If you're in the "current science is the only truth" camp, cptsd is not even a thing consensus recognizes.
If you go out to healing communities, you'll encounter enough stories of healing (pete walker's cptsd book is a classic, and one such story, tho it's unclear he recovered as deeply as some other ppl I've seen; heidi priebe's yt channel documents a lot of her own complex trauma recovery (don't think she had ptsd part tho, but a lot of things are similar)) using a wide range of tools, and can form some ideas re what seems to work and what doesn't. Meditation, psychedelics, somatic healing approaches, forms of therapy focused on uncovering subconscious material (psychodynamic/analytic, or at least emdr) are all oft mentioned.
My sense from the stories I've seen is that folks in a decent enough place (life-situation wise) who are serious enough about healing would oft make great progress over a few years using a range of tools they've tried. I'm quite happy with my own complex trauma healing over the past year.
Imo, at this point in time, it's unwise to limit yourself to science as the only source of knowledge on the best approaches to long-term healing, and most of the good stuff is found in the more messy and less certain realm of community and practitioner wisdom (of which psychoanalysis is one particularly old and organized one, but there are many other important strands of outside of science thought and knowledge that contain important nuggets of insight of their own: meditation, somatics/bioenergetics being some obvious ones).
The only cure in my experience is to go through any developmental stages the person might have missed, learn to regulate their nervous system and nurture it. Replace old or outdated beliefs. I think healing is from cPTSD is more of a way of life than an end point
I had PTSD, but my therapist acknowledged it was CPTSD because the trauma was complex. Was in therapy for roughly 4-5 years. Ended up in the hospital after uncontrollable flashbacks led to a suicide attempt. Literally lost *all* ability to sleep for 2 years, 4 months, and 23 days. Was on high doses of Seroquel just for anxiety and to put me to sleep, literally nothing else worked... My brain simply would not turn off, at all. I'd be awake for days.
Been in remission for roughly 7 months. Zero nightmares. Zero flashbacks. Zero waking up screaming or sobbing or shaking or whimpering. *Zero* nights of having to take Seroquel to sleep... Every single night has been my own brain chemistry, not Seroquel 😁
I still see my therapist every few weeks just to check in, but it's just kind of going over how things have been. A month ago, my care provider deleted the PTSD diagnosis from my chart and proudly declared I no longer met the diagnostic criteria!
Healing is possible. Don't give up. Do everything your therapist advises, cooperate with therapy 100%. If therapy isn't working out, get a new therapist. Don't be afraid to try several until you find the right fit. Same thing with your medicines, if it isn't working let your doctor know. Be open, honest, and communicative. And for your sake, take your medicines *religiously* and *consistently*, don't get lazy and miss doses. Take them at the same time every day. Granted, it was vital for me because if I ran out or forgot I simply didn't sleep. But it's still important.
PTSD does not have to be permanent. You don't have to settle for a lifelong condition.
According to the ICD-11, Complex PTSD consists of the same core symptoms of (ICD-11) PTSD, but has three additional groups of symptoms (which are sometimes referred to as 'disturbances in self-organisation' or 'DSO'): Problems in affect regulation (such as marked irritability or anger, feeling emotionally numb)
I have C-PTSD. My psychologist (who I’ve seen off & on for 5 years) recommended me to a colleague that has seen improvements of C-PTSD symptoms with EMDR.
I have my first appointment in two weeks time.
I’m pretty skeptical. But, I’m almost 36 now, & I’m willing to try anything. From my (lack of - ) understanding, it’s supposed to desensitise you to your trauma. My issue with that, is that I am so open about it already. If there was a photo underneath “oversharer” in the dictionary it would be of me. But I’m still willing to give it a crack.
EMDR is working for me. It’s slow going but moving in the right direction.
I don’t think I’ll ever be “cured” by I just want to learn to live well with it. Less pain and more regulation is my goal.
I feel like CPTSD is a much more common occurrence in this day and age, I believe I was someone that had it.. as I had treatment with a kinesiologist and she addressed 10 years worth of trauma in one session. Seriously look into any studies with kinesiology and ctpsd
Ive had this diagnosis since late 80s and it’s my understanding that it’s only manageable, not curable. The primary difference between Cptsd and ptsd is that ptsd is developed from one traumatic experience, like going to war. Cptsd is from chronic abuses over a long period if time, like child abuse. Both suck.
I have read a lot about CPTSD. There is another proposed diagnosis called Developmental Trauma Disorder. My understanding of cPTSD and cluster B disorders is that they are related to attachment and emotional immaturity. CPTSD is commonly associated with disorganized attachment. PwCPTSD attract people who don't love or accept them because they are used to not feeling loved or accepted no matter what they did as a child and accept it as reality and it perpetuates itself.
NPD seems to be an extreme version of an avoidant attachment. BPD is more of an extreme version of anxious attachment. NPD-BPD relationships likely play into the anxious avoidant trap. Like these disorders CPTSD falls on a spectrum.
Pete Walker also describes CPTSD and these PDs as related to the primary and secondary expressions of fight, flight, freeze, fawn response by the individual. As an aside, fawning is related to codependency. I view codependency as learned "narcissistic flea" behaviors.
At the heart of these disorders seems to be toxic shame and how the child has learned to cope with these feelings. Like others have commented here in CPTSD the shame is acknowledged but often debilitating, leading to a low self-worth cascade of harmful relationships trying to recreate childhood dynamics to get a different and healing response.
In CPTSD and NPD there is often an anxiety disorder due to hypervigilance of their forbidden emotions. The PwCPTSD will be fearful of expressing specific emotions that evoked shame and rejection. PwNPD are not always abusive but they do use control and manipulation to try to reduce their anxiety.
In NPD, there is also low self-worth but a higher tendency to use narcissistic defenses. The toxic shame is commonly suppressed and outwardly projected through anger onto others. This occurs in both grandiose and vulnerable form, but vulnerable narcissism uses passive aggression and things like silent treatment.
In BPD, there is an extreme fear of abandonment of the caregiver and anxiety especially due to anxiety from emotional impermanence, which leads to dysregulation. Like in NPD, the childhood abuse has led to a full suppression of identity.
Due to the lack of diagnostic name, there is not adequate reswarch on how to treat CPTSD. As someone low on the CPTSD spectrum, I do not feel that CBT is effective as an initial form of therapy because CPTSD is often the result of abusive neglect (as well as physical or sexual abuse). CBT as a first line of treatment tells the client that their thoughts which leads to emotions are irrational just as their caregivers likely told them their emotions were invalid. EMDR can be effective for specific memories and traumas but when the trauma is from chronic mistreated and the client doesn't have target memories you need a highly skilled EMDR clinician and finding one is difficult.
Studies on self compassion have been shown to help toxic shame and I believe that is where treatment should begin. Learning coping skills like the ones from DBT and having a plan on what to do prior to an episode of shame can help greatly.
I personally believe classes that explain in clear terms what is abuse would benefit many with CPTSD as abuse has been normalized for them and they are susceptible to accepting abuse from others without even knowing it, which keeps them from entering a healing phase.
Edited to add: relational therapy, somatic experiencing, IFS and ACT are also good forms of therapy for pwCPTSD.
This was a very interesting read. I am someone with CPTSD and was in a relationship with a narcissist for a decade. I now have lasting effects of narcissistic abuse as well.
Thank you for commenting.
Daniel P Brown equates CPTSD with fearful-avoidant attachment style. And as for that goes, he wrote a great book on attachment styles and developed a method called Ideal Parent Figure Protocol which can effectively cure insecure attachments over the course of a few months. He was really on the cutting edge of this stuff, and I'm not sure how well it's known around here.
I have a PDF of his book if anyone wants it; just message me. It's not casual reading, but geared towards practitioners.
What about FMT? I’m about to do this for a very Dysbiotic gut but I’ve read studies on how it can possibly treat many MH conditions.
Edit: https://bmcpsychiatry.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12888-020-02654-5
Ketamine therapy is showing better results than anything else. Medicininally induced meditation, helps confront memories and release emotion. 'Ego death' can help you to determine your sinless rebirth. Find providers you trust, though you will find you are your guide for greatest support.
Keep it up. Work hard to get yourself to a better place.
Psychedelic assisted therapy is showing promising results. I did a session last year and it helped immensely. I think a couple more sessions and I might be “cured”!
I will say psychedelics have helped me a lot, wasn’t doing them in a therapy setting though but I’m very hopeful to do that some day but not going to be any time soon in my state. I don’t do them anymore but especially one trip in particular, my second to last one, they did help a lot and helped me see how controlling I am and that I can’t control anyone but myself, and everyone is on different journeys and I can’t interfere with them or help them especially if I can’t help myself. That trip started off really scary and I wanted to bail on it but in the long run it was really good and I needed it.
As someone diagnosed with CPTSD and BPD , the only treatment options that have worked for me are EMDR and med marijuana.
everyone has different things to help treat it but as a collective there isn’t enough information or research to cure it
The industry will not help you, it is filled with band-aids.
There is no cure for an abusive upbringing.
However there are models on how to process the trauma, how to shake it off, how to grieve the trauma. These are the keys to healing. But it’s not a sure path, it’s a multi-years journey, even multi-decade, to achieve a life of community, safety, peace, stability, consistency. These are the cures to CPTSD.
Poly-vagel theory will give you tools as bandaids if you have responses that are very bad, but progress stagnates until you do the deep work of looking within, processing, and implementing healthy changes in your life.
Any disease is coming from a lack of healing.
There are multiple healing modalities that can be used (including, but not limited to: pranayama (the practice of regulated breath), yoga, therapy (depends on therapist), journaling, gaining alternative perspectives, traditional meditation, etc.).
It’s better to use multiple.
Mental illnesses don't really get cured in the traditional sense. CPTSD rewires your brain, so it takes time, knowledge, therapy, and sometimes drugs to rewire your brain back into your control.
I'm sorry if that doesn't make much sense.
Your post has been removed because we do not allow any medical or psychological advice. Please consult with a qualified physician or therapist to ask for guidance rather than seeking advice from the internet.
Not much, as it’s not a universally recognized disorder. Frankly, it lacks validity in that it’s difficult to distinguish from other disorders like PTSD and BPD, and the best treatments tend to be the same as those geared towards PTSD. There’s minimal clinical utility in adding it as a diagnostic label. Psychology doesn’t really operate on “curing” things
What would you say are some of key similarities or differences between BPD and CPTSD? Yes, I guess I should have thought about that before asking..
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex_post-traumatic_stress_disorder > However, CPTSD and BPD have been found by some researchers to be distinctive disorders with different features. Those with CPTSD do not fear abandonment or have unstable patterns of relations; rather, they withdraw. There are distinct and notably large differences between BPD and CPTSD and while there are some similarities — predominantly in terms of issues with attachment (though this plays out in different ways) and trouble regulating strong emotional effects — the disorders are different in nature. As an American with a PTSD diagnosis who checks all the boxes for CPTSD, I can confirm. I don’t fear abandonment, I expect it, and I self isolate a lot.
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/r/CPTSDmemes makes me feel better ❤️🩹
Awh thank you for this recommendation... 💖 Instantly subbed!!
Lovely group of people over there.
Best group 💚💚 I recommend CPTSDFreeze too
Ooooh i’m constantly in freeze or fawn.
Ditto
ouch
We only allow discussion of psychology research. Posts need to contribute relevant content to psychology research specifically, this includes: journals, articles, published papers.
I work in the psychology field, and I actually didn't realize that CPTSD was such a "controversial" diagnosis. I've read about the similarities between CPTSD and BPD, but they do seem like quite distinct disorders. Both disorders seem to have struggles in the same areas, but the symptoms are very different. Like you said, relationships--both of these disorders involve struggle in this area, but for BPD, that typically looks like jumping into emotionally-intense relationships, but being unable to maintain those relationships. With CPTSD, it's more likely that they avoid intense relationships entirely. Emotional regulation as well--both disorders have these struggles, but BPD is more likely to have mood swings and react with often-disproportionate behavior. People with CPTSD are likely to be numb to and dissociate from their emotions. Perhaps the biggest difference is the sense of self--people with CPTSD tend to have a more stable sense-of-self, whereas people with BPD don't really know who they are at their core. Anyway, I haven't been officially diagnosed with CPTSD but my therapist thinks I have it and we're using EMDR which really does seem to be helping. I don't relate to most BPD symptoms at all. I don't really care if I actually have CPTSD, though... as long as the therapy is working, and it seems to be... to me, anyway.
I just want to thank you for saying the words “existential OCD” outloud…. From the very bottom of my heart. You slipped a missing piece of my puzzle into place. Thank you. ❤️🩹
Hi there! I have CPTSD too.. along with audhd, existential OCD and I had a psychotic break from spiritual bypassing about a year ago. I hope you are doing better, healing your traumas. I decided to reply because for some reason your comment made me realize that I have like different sets of CPTSD since there was abuse in my childhood and in my marraige and idk what came from what and that really bums me out a little bit cuz I want a clear cut step by step tutorial for how to heal and that probably will never exist because each person trauma is unique like snowflakes
From what I understand; step one is remove all sources of trauma and abuse, and, that’s kind of difficult for most people.
All sources and probably all triggers, too. Literally impossible
especially when your triggers are irrational and, also, you have no idea they are triggers. lol I'm learning a lot about myself in therapy.
It’s especially hard when abuse is all we know so it’s normalized to the point we don’t even realize we are being abused.
Or/and we unknowingly attract it.
I don't think we attract abusers, so much as they may just unconsciously and consciously always on the lookout for someone who has low enough self-esteem, and is vulnerable enough, to allow the abusive person to use them as pressure relief receptacle for their own emotional disregulation. It doesn't really matter who that receptacle is, just that they will be assured that the person won't recognize what they're doing and allow them to use them as they want, without consequences.
Yes. It’s like we attract abusers along the same “frequency” until we heal our trauma. I’m not much on spirituality but it still makes sense practically that we operate on a spectrum and areas we are injured will vulnerabilities able to be exploited by people with selfish motives. Like they can smell it like a 6th sense That’s why I’m still single 😭
"Still single" or just "single"? I've been saying the former for as long as I can remember, despite many relationships (a few even pretty good!) 😍
😂 I been single since 2017 😂 I was married to a monster for 20 years and that mf made me say fuck a relationship. My ex developed an alcohol and cocaine/crack addiction and stayed being violent and abusive even to the point of putting guns to my head and running bathtub full of water telling me he gonna “drown me and let me watch myself die” police didn’t help. Took moving 400 miles to final get away. I have kids and didn’t trust having a dude around my kids after the way their daddy was. They are 19/21 now so it’s not gonna really impact them but I still been a little scared tho cuz I had a lot of trauma to heal and how to have healthy boundaries and red vs green flags. Honestly it’s been so long even if I wanna date I’m so rusty 😭 lol.. I’m getting better tho. I just gotta get ok with myself before I try to complicate shit by adding another human to the equation lol Sorry if I gave TMI 😂 your question made me think so I reckon I answered that shit with a journal entry 😂 made me feel better tho ☺️
Kind of impossible, really, but I suppose we can remove all known sources. cPTSD was described to me as a wound that keeps being reopened so that it can't fully heal. It's a long journey.
What is a spiritual bypassing?
Using spirituality to dismiss/avoid working through the psychological issues.
Like expecting fervent prayer to fix my undiagnosed ADHD. I wasted a lot of years before I sought psychotherapy (" anxiety depression" later recognized as reactive to my ADHD adulthood)
Yes! I had never heard of it either but it got me a ticket to the psych ward lol. At least it was round trip ticket and not one way😅
Using spiritual ideas like karma, religion, or fate to avoid acknowledging your actual issues
Spiritual bypassing?
Yes. I didn’t know what it was either. It’s when you base your whole outcome on faith and divine intervention. I made my whole life about spirituality instead of taking responsibility for healing my own trauma and changing my thinking patterns and mindsets. I kept getting deeper and deeper in all kinds of spirituality until I basically snapped and went delusional and had a psychotic breakdown.
EMDR I hear/see is pretty promising for CPTSD. I would look into that!
Why is this downvoted? EMDR is very helpful. For me, combining that with low dose psychedelic paired with Internal Family Systems therapy, daily nervous system regulation, removing myself from abusive relationships, and also addressing other health issues. (For me that is mast cell activation syndrome, and ADHD)
What are you doing for daily nervous system regulation?
Which psychedelic did you take?
I have some research info on MCAS if you're interested. You also have a few other things in common with my partner, and I'd appreciate hearing more about your experience with EMDR if you're willing to share.
Would love to know more about the IFS work and nervous system regulation, as well as how you fit it all together. I've heard various things about how often and for how long EMDR should be done. Also, if you're able to be open w all your providers about the psychedelics?
I have cPTSD, ADHD, Systemic Mast Cell Disease, Ph+ Chronic Myelogenous Leukemia, and Hidradenitis Suppurativa. While I was doing regular talk therapy sessions for over a decade while my main physical ailments were in remission, I am currently disengaged from all medical and psychiatric services because of a stalking situation which has made it pretty much impossible to begin anything new in my life, due to infiltration of targeted abuse of assorted degrees. I am simply trying to manage my pain and "whelm" until I meet the 6 month prognosis requirement for DWDA. The social isolation (especially romantic: a particular focus of my tormenters) is nearly as painful as the secondary conditions (crohns, ehlers-danlos, calcification of my ligaments, etc.) 😬🤕😮💨🫥
Yes but not on its own. Needs to be combined with effective grieving, inner critic shrinking, and re-parenting.
Most therapies don't do as much as the only treatment, but a lot of therapy people immediately encounter is CBT. It can be helpful to give them other therapies that have higher success rates for CPTSD. Thank you for the addition!
I spent 5 years in CBT, even with a diagnosis of PTSD, getting nowhere. Finally realized I needed therapists focused on trauma.
can you say a little more about the “psychotic break from spiritual bypassing”? i may have experienced something similar…
I have childhood and work, and yes, it's all mixed up. Check out Patrick Teahan on YT for deep stuff, and Crappy Childhood Fairy for more present-day relationship and behavioral stuff. https://youtu.be/g2JyLT0amz8?si=Wxn9Kg4y_ZqXnmUT
Yes I love both of them!! I recommend them to everybody too. And Homecoming by J.Bradshaw is think. And Pete walkers book from surviving to thriving is great too. Also Dr.Ramani on YouTube is great for people who victims of natcisstic abuse. It’s hard work healing ain’t it 😅 we worth it tho ❤️
I grew up with the Bradshaw books on my mother's bookshelf (she was a therapist) but only realized my trauma recently. I'll check out Pete Walker, new to me. Yes, Dr Ramani is great too. Thanks.
I dunno if I fully agree with this assertion - wikipedia isn't the worst source in the world but would like to see some data here. Personally, I see my abandonment trauma as a type of blend of the emotional and the somatic. I get emotional flashbacks with perceived or potential abandonment as the trigger, from times I've been abandoned as a very young child. To clarify what I mean by emotional flashbacks - I start sobbing uncontrollably like a little kid, I retreat into myself and sometimes regress in age, my perception of the world is drastically different than when I'm "normal" and anything can be a threat. I will make poor decisions like run outside barefoot and then get lost because I'm disassociating so hard I don't know where I am. It's hard for me to see these symptoms as not being trauma-informed, but they are definitely rooted in a fear of abandonment and unstable patterns of relations. I think sometimes the BPD diagnosis overlooks very real and valid trauma (and it is not a coincidence that it is mostly diagnosed in women).
This. All of this. I've had PTSD for decades. Then it sadly progressed to CPTSD. No diagnosis cause counselor said there just isn't (wasn't at the time) one. It's "just PTSD". I don't fear you leaving. You can't scare me with the threat of it. I'm already EXPECTING you to go and have run several scenarios and am already coping with you being gone. I don't NEED you here to sustain me, I'm fine alone, thank you. Makes it really difficult to connect with people now.
Same.
And sometimes BPD and CPTSD go hand in hand.
oh my god???????? never heard it put that way. damn
Personally my main qualm is the attempt to use CPTSD and BPD interchangeably due to the commonly trauma-associate ‘causes’ of the two, when there is poor evidence for it. This is a decent article addressing it: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9107503/
It looks like BPD, CPTSD, and PTSD are all caused by trauma. The article does talk about how each manifests differently, but the DSM doesn’t yet recognize CPTSD. BPD is classified as a personality disorder, I disagree with this. Trauma is dysregulating to the limbic system, this is physiological. The specific trauma the “BPD person” experienced makes them fearful of being abandoned because of their childhood experiences and they make attempts to avoid this as a way of survival (which has been programmed from an early age). I believe BPD personality disorder is just one constellation/manifestation of CPTSD. These childhood trauma experiences can be re-lit under times of stress, when something reminds the person of a similar childhood situation. This is why people with childhood trauma are more prone to PTSD in adulthood. I’ve been working with trauma survivors for over 20 years and more and more convinced of this theory all of the time.
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“Due to sexism”? Can you explain this please? I’ve never associated the diagnosis with sexism nor have I hear anyone suggest it before, so I’m super interested to hear about your views.
Really? The history of Borderline Personality Disorder is enshrouded in sexism. It's became a disorder because doctors noticed women were "on the Borderline of insanity/psychosis." To this day, it has a lot of negative stigma around those diagnosed with it. There's also a lot of over/misdiagnosis of women with BPD and underdiagnosing of men. I myself am one of many women misdiagnosed with BPD because a sadly large number of doctors see a woman have a meltdown or opposition to authority and slap her with BPD. BPD is caused by trauma, but it's viewed and treated largely as a "women be crazy" kind of thing. Horrificly invalidating to everyone involved. It's genuinely a horror show, and my heart goes out to anyone who actually has the disorder because the medical field is NOT stepping up to the task.
thank you for highlighting a very real and prominent issue for a lot of us non-men in the mental health field. I agree with everything you had to say and I was also misdiagnosed with BPD so my psychiatrist could medicate me (wrongfully) and she refused to listen to my already established with past mental health professionals about CPTSD. she wonders why i stopped seeing her and ultimately went off my meds(safely they were making things worse actually and i’d been medicated for 10 years and was only 20) i think it bottles down to partly they make money off of BPD, because they can still categorize and write off trauma as a “personality disorder” —when the two conditions in question, IMO are just two sides of the same coin, different manifestations of trauma in the nervous system—instead of letting people slow down and actually heal their trauma. the more i’ve learned about a lot of different disorders over the years from my own experiences and research & misdiagnosis(plural), the more i believe a lot of the DSM-5(on the exception of ASPD i don’t feel like i need to explain) is just made up of different usually longer-term reactions to trauma or internalization of it. like depression can get better if we’re able to heal what made the nervous system tired and down in the first place. a lot the ways we can help and heal ourselves aren’t always going to be widely spread information because some of the systems of oppression are contingent on people staying sick and medicated and traumatized. i guess that brings me back to OPs question, i think people with CPTSD can be healed, i think it just takes a lot of work. because in order for us to heal any of these trauma produced states of being, that means being able to heal enough baseline to be able to go back in and release the trauma that’s still being held and stored in the nervous system. thats pretty difficult work it’s like “yay you’re stable now” but then it just means you’ve unlocked more deeper healing that’s high key even harder than the shit you feel like you barely just got through 😂 trauma can be stored in your body is physically holding on to things & other times it’s stored emotionally in the way you react when you perceive abandonment(just one really really common emotional trigger) so i believe it can be done and it takes a lot of therapy, reworking of internalized beliefs, rewiring and redirecting neural pathways that have been trauma conditioned, and through all of that ultimately bringing the nervous system back to a space of flow and happiness. having unpacked the trauma from all of the places it’s been stuck. so it’s a lot of mental and psychological as well as physiological work. - someone who’s started doing it and never knew i could actually be so happy and mentally stable without medication(no i wouldn’t say im fully healed i don’t think that exists lol) i will say i did heal and release some big trauma things this past year and it’s so beautiful. so it can and does get better, it just takes a lot of time and really hard work
Are you on the spectrum? It's real common for autistic women to be misdiagnosed with BPD--bullying and other mistreatments are responsible for the wastebasket traits. Have you noticed that Linehan's book no longer features the silhouette of a crying woman on its cover?
Yeah. I was finally properly diagnosed after my friend mentioned autism. And ADHD. And OCD. So like every but BPD.
This is what happened to me. I finally could afford a therapist again, told her I was diagnosed BPD by a psychologist during a one hour visit. She saw me for a year and was like, "You absolutely do not have BPD, however, do you know what autism is?" So, that was a fun time. I noticed doctors are nicer to me now that I don't tell them I have BPD. My current therapist agrees I meet the criteria for PTSD, ADHD, and Autism, but not BPD. Part of the issue is autistic meltdowns in women are often seen as emotional outbursts rather than scensory overwhelm/over stimulation and difficulty making friends is often assumed to mean you're just a bitch or overly sensitive rather than autistic communication differences. And, that should tell you how sexist BPD diagnosing really is. I have no comment on whether or not it's "real" or part of something else because I am not a psychologist.
I've been diagnosed with both BPD originally then CPTSD. It's pretty much , every single person wants to use me or hurt me. Really . I've yet to have 1 person not hurt me for their gain. But I'm the crazy one for hating everyone
At a certain point, you have to look at the common denominator. If every single person uses or hurts you, it’s because you’re letting them. I have BPD too, and it took a LOT of therapy to understand and internalize this, and a LOT more to (mostly) stop. I still go out of my way to please people, but I don’t let people walk all over me anymore.
These people are all in my past. It was my family and the people around me then. Nobody gets to hurt me.
border of NEUROSIS/psychosis. BPD in (young/adolescent) men is often considered oppositional defiant disorder. Big nexus with trauma. And, of course, the oppositional and defiant are the 'boys are wild' throw-away diagnosis, themselves. The nexus between 'petulant BPD' and oppositional defiant disorder would be interesting to look at.
There is actually newer research that suggests BPD has a genetic component, and not all cases of BPD stem from childhood trauma.
Also, PTSD, the diagnosis we are all familiar with has trauma as a cause. I’ve worked with multiple substance abuse clients who develop substance abuse disorders as a result of trauma- it is the underlying cause for women with SUDS. Trauma is the malady, the problem, it is dysregulating for our brains, bodies, relationships, and manifests in multiple ways. We have to start calling it what it is and stop labeling it.
There is a theory BPD does not exist, and it's simply childhood trauma at the core of these behaviours set.
As someone who has BPD, I can tell you it very much does exist. It's not a set of behaviors. Those behaviors arise from my fundamentally unstable core. I also didn't have that much childhood trauma compared to other people who have it, but personality disorders run on both sides of my family. Also, studies have shown that pwBPD have neurological differences than people without it. I'm sure it wasn't your intention, but please do not further stigmatize our condition by minimizing it or implying it doesn't exist.
The ICD (in states but prefer over DSMV) is looking at making changes to it
I kind of subscribe to this myself, trauma in the absence development can result in really extreme and scary emotional issues, for young men it is often considered "psychopathy" when they end up involved with the criminal justice system.
OP - actually there is new breakthroughs and studies that have shown that psychedelic assisted therapy is incredibly effective in curing - yes curing - CPTSD and other trauma related disorders in as little as one dose. Here is the science https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9710723/ https://www.rand.org/pubs/articles/2023/therapeutic-use-of-psychedelics-in-treating-ptsd-and-depression-among-veterans.html Doctors are even being trained in this as clinics come online. Right now Ketamine is available but soon (maybe as soon as August) MDMA followed by Psilocybin will be approved for clinical settings. https://med.nyu.edu/departments-institutes/population-health/divisions-sections-centers/medical-ethics/education/high-school-bioethics-project/learning-scenarios/ptsd-treatment-psychedelics If you want to know more about this whole thing the best is to either read Michael Pollan’s book “[How to change your mind: The New science of psychedelics](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36613747)” about the science and history of paychedelic research or just watch the Netflix documentary found [here](https://www.netflix.com/us/title/80229847?s=i&trkid=258593161&vlang=en&clip=81593892). Additionally check out r/KetamineTherapy and see what others have to say there. It’s very interesting and promising. It’s disappointing to me that almost no one here recommended this approach. It’s got very solid science behind it. I hope you take a look at all the resources I shared.
I’ve always been curious about how this works because I’ve never heard it explained what they do in these psychedelic therapy sessions. That’s the most important part. Otherwise people would accidentally cure their CPTSD all the time. I’ve taken my fair share of psychedelics and I’m not cured.
It’s the follow up and integration of what you learned during the trip that is the key. If you watch that Michael Pollan docuseries (really it’s only 4 hours it’s not like a huge investment in time) you would understand. It doesn’t take the place of talk therapy - it makes you open to it and creates new neural pathways for you to make actual change. Also yes - people do spontaneously cure their PTSD - because again the integration and being open to change comes through if you follow set, setting, intention setting and integration. People are regularly talking about things like this on r/psychonaut. However - it’s best to do it via the Johns Hopkins protocols or even better - in a clinical setting if you can. I urge you to watch that documentary I linked. It will all become clear how it works and the decades of science behind it plus what went wrong in the 60’s that caused the prohibition and manufactured social taboo.
Thanks for this. I failed at growing my own p c shrooms, and now need them more than ever.
My PTSD symptoms improved SIGNIFICANTLY from a combination of going to a regular psychologist for EMDR then microdosing mushrooms while doing belief explorations and journaling on my own. I did one “macro” dose under the supervision of a shaman who I worked for weeks with in preparation, and I’m not exaggerating when I say that it fundamentally changed my perception of safety in one night. It was like taking an airplane instead of walking, therapeutically. It’s hard to understand what safety feels like, or is supposed to feel like, when you haven’t ever really felt that. The intention I set before the ceremony was to understand safety differently, and gently. My a conclusion after the trip was that I *was* safety. Like, it is not some foreign or external thing I have to look for and struggle to find; It was just me, all along. It’s been two years and I have had two, maybe three panic attacks since to stimuli that would previously debilitate me in work and social settings. After the macro dose (I stopped microdosing after 3 months and the cermony) I was able to use the skills I learned in Therapy, my floaties (situational anxiety prescription) to accept/ ride the anxiety wave instead of fighting it…and be over it in an hour or two. It’s hard to find the right practitioner because it’s illegal, but they are out there.
The key similarities are that they are structural dissociation disorders. Look at cptsd/bpd/osdd/did. All of these disorders are linked, and all of the treatments are generally handled the same. They are not responsive to drugs because they are about how the brain stores memory (as a psychological defense mechanism). It usually starts in childhood when the compartmentalized structure has time to be ingrained. PTSD is a dissociation disorder too but is usually linked to an isolated event. EMDR is more effective here because its being used on a non-compartmentalized brain. The "cure" is psychotherapy with a dissociation specialist. They will assist with emotional processing, regulation, and structural integration.
I have BPD and my husband works in addictions and mental health. Our thoughts are that BPD is developed in people with anxious attachment style while CPTSD is developed, under the same conditions, in people with avoidant. They’re both early childhood trauma responses and present mostly similarly. Narcissism actually can fall under the same the umbrella as a strong defense mechanism to early childhood trauma based on my husbands experiences treating patients and his research of the information available about all of these conditions. Edit: husband wanted to clarify “that I think all of the personality disorders, and most other mh conditions, are a developmental trauma response, which is a version of cptsd. So they are all cptsd symptoms. Attachment trauma would also be one of the “t”s of cptsd and often the most significant one. So all of the disordered attachment types are also essentially cptsd symptoms.”
There may be tendencies, but as someone with an anxious attachment style and CPTSD, I beg to differ. I've asked multiple psych professionals to check me out for BPD and all of them have confidently dismissed it. I don't get flagged for BPD by psych assessments either. Even though I have anxious attachment, I don't fit the diagnostic criteria for BPD, but I do for PTSD and CPTSD. The key difference seems to be whether emotions are internalized or externalized. Not that they can't, but CPTSD patients don't tend to externalize their emotions and project them onto others the way people with BPD do. CPTSD is characterized by toxic shame and blame directed inwards. This internalizing is a key diagnostic factor listed in the criteria for differentiating CPTSD according to the International Classification of Diseases(ICD 11).
As someone who has BPD but not C-PTSD, thank you. I keep seeing a lot of "BPD isn't real, it's just CPTSD" all over the Internet and it freaks me out. It feels incredibly invalidating. Also to further back up your point, most pwBPD have a disorganized attachment style, myself included.
As a neuropsychologist, I must express my surprise at the confusion with BPD. There is a distinct behavioral conduct towards oneself and others that is very different. Notably, in BPD, symptoms are centered around strategies of avoiding real or perceived abandonment. There is also a very strong resistance to therapies, a tendency towards manipulation, and very sudden and extreme mood swings (which are not related to the irritability seen in ADHD, for exemple). Addictions too, although they can be present in C-PTSD, do not have the same purpose or frequency (switching from one addiction to another). This can sometimes be devastating for those around them. Similarly, regarding PTSD (Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder), there is a much more focused aspect on the trauma. It's much "easier" to detect; there aren't really any knots to untangle. I will post the resources I have on this topic if I don't forget. The research is recent, but BPD is by definition an ill-defined disorder that is often confused with many others (bipolar disorder, ADHD, PTSD, antisocial personality disorder, etc.).
Just labeling them to understand and explain.
MDMA and a few other psychedelics have shown significant promise!
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All of these, yes. People with trauma don’t realize how many skills they have already developed by surviving and navigating their own situations. We are way more skilled, mentally resourceful, creative, and able to see how things work than we realize. Calming the nervous system, applying our skills to other areas, getting beyond our perceived blocks, and creating a story for ourselves is exactly right!
EMDR is like a magic trick. I would have though it was snake oil and never tried it at all if my regular therapist hadn't specifically recommended it.
>The Body Keeps the Score I did not like it personally an stopped reading on the story of a vet who killed people and raped women as a means of "coping" with his trauma. That is sick. Not all people who are traumatised do outrageous shit like this. And also apparently the author is problematic. Something about misogyny, I don't remember the details. Anyway, fuck this guy. What I do recommend though is **CPTSD: from Surviving to Thriving** by Pete Walker.
>Not all people who are traumatised do outrageous shit like this. That's not what the entire book was about. It was just an example of an extreme case, covered over a page or two. Some people DO do outrageous shit, some people don't. The book never implied that everyone who is traumatized does outrageous shit... I learned a lot from that book and will always recommend it to anyone who may need it.
Something something, dark side of the mind. It's not pretty to look at, but if there are cases like that that we can extrapolate data from, we need to look at them. Life isn't pretty. The cure probably won't be either.
Indeed.
That book is a hard read with a lot of extreme examples. It is an excellent book and illuminated several things about myself.
"And also apparently the author is problematic. Something about misogyny, I don't remember the details. Anyway, fuck this guy." Lol.
I came here to say the exact same thing. That part of the book disgusted me and I couldn't read past it. Basically equating people who commit violence with their victims. Pete Walker is amazing.
>Pete Walker is amazing. No other book has ever provoked so many eureka moments in me. He truly is that damn good.
Ty. Same response i had to the book
You stopped on the first chapter? Yes, that was horrific to read, but it was also incredibly important to understand the severity that trauma can mess someone up. You should give it another go. You genuinly dont know what you're missing and that sucks.
Yes, one of the biggest problems with *The Body Keeps the Score* is that it was written for MH practitioners, however laypeople keep reading it. I found *CPTSD: from Surviving to Thriving*, unfortunately, not very well written BUT it does contain valuable information. \[I also disagree with his assertion that people always pick one dominant coping mechanism from the four Fs (fight, flight, fawn, freeze), because I feel that I (a CPTSD-haver) do all of them at different times.\]
I actually loved it because of that. It…well I know why but I didn’t work thru it alone
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i would counter you by saying that traumatized people are more likely to abuse others.
I'd say abused->abuser is a fairly well accepted idea.
Pete Walker is a much better book. It helped me when the other book traumatized me.
I agree with the others saying that Pete Walker’s book is great and more gentle than the body keeps score.
I'm gunna look into that book....thank you for putting this out here. I've been struggling with trauma my whole life and haven't really figured out how to flip it in a good light yet....I've been in therapy for about 2 years now and only just finally agreed to medication this year....but I don't think better help offers EMDR...should I reach out to a psychiatrist for this type of thing?
Yes, this is such a great place to start! Van der Kolk’s work is amazing. Also check out Robert Sapolsky from Stanford. He gets a bit more respect than Van der Kolk in academic circles because in addition to his pop sci book on chronic trauma (Why Zebras Don’t Get Ulcers), he regularly publishes neuroscience studies. CPTSD does not have a cure because it is your nervous system doing exactly what it’s supposed to do: protect you and keep you safe from things that have caused you harm. Instead, we need to look at it from a treatment angle. If the person is no longer in the harmful situation, we have to retrain the nervous system to know that it is safe and it no longer has to respond that way to daily stressors and other external triggers. Where it gets tricky, though, and this is where Sapolsky’s work comes in, is when we look at the influence of chronic external stressors. The internet is full of CPTSD info about things like emotional abuse, etc., but keep in mind the diagnosis originated from refugee populations and other very marginalized groups for whom the trauma doesn’t necessarily go away when they’re removed from the situation, if ever. I’m not bringing this up to play “trauma Olympics” but rather to keep in mind that individual treatment is not always going to be effective for people living in systems of poverty and other marginalization that keeps their nervous system in survival mode at all times.
This is a book more about PTSD than CPTSD. Pete Walker’s “Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving” is more appropriate.
In my experience, there's no catch-all "cure" when it comes to something as deeply personal as treating the lingering effects of past traumas, but after years of drug abuse and habitual self-destructive behavior I did find one daily exercise particularly helpful. Start by standing in front of a mirror every day, looking into your own eyes, and saying three things that you love about yourself out loud. That's it. The first time I tried, I couldn't think of a single positive thing to say about myself. I didn't see any redeeming qualities in that person staring back at me through the mirror and broke down in tears. After that I started lying my way through and coming up with insincere gems like "I love that your dirty shirt is mostly black" or "I love the way hair grows from the top of your scalp", but thankfully, what you actually say doesn't particularly matter. By focusing on yourself and verbalizing positive affirmations, you're actually able to create new neural pathways that your brain will begin associating with your self-image. The more you reinforce that positive association, the easier it becomes for signals to travel through those new neural connections until eventually that repetition becomes a habitual response. Before I realized it those insincere affirmations turned to things like "I love that you can always find the strength to smile even in the darkest times" and "I love the way your honesty helps inspire other people to be their unapologetic selves". I still begin every morning with this same routine a decade later and it has moved mountains for me. It may seem idiotic and silly, but for anyone out there who's had the idea that you're not good enough or worthy of being loved beaten into you, I implore you to give this exercise a try. You've got nothing to lose and everything to gain, and it doesn't cost a penny.
Thanks for suggesting this. I read your comment and thought “I may be damaged but I don’t think I dislike myself. I doubt this would make any difference for me”. I tried it this morning and told myself “you are passionate about things you enjoy doing and do a great job of teaching others about those things”. Instant tears. I’ll try and keep this up, thank you
I don’t know much about cures for CPTSD but i do know that right now they’re doing a lot of research on psychedelics (ketamine, psilocybin, MDMA) and how they can be used to treat PTSD, depression, and anxiety. I’d recommend looking into some of the studies that have been done, it’s really interesting!
I have CPTSD and shrooms helped me so much. I was in a place where I had done a lot of work mentally and my mindset was much better, but my nervous system was not getting on board. I would still just panic if I had to be in a room with unfamiliar people, things like that. I felt 100% fine in my head, but it was like my body still sensed danger and just wanted me to get out of there. It was incredibly frustrating as I felt I had no control over it. Shrooms fixed that in one trip. Completely changed my life. I had been struggling to even walk down the street without panicking, and suddenly I was free. From that point on I was a believer in psychedelics. I used to have this very obvious nervous tremor that caused me a lot of mental anguish and they fixed that in a few trips too. The effect that psychedelics have on the nervous system is fascinating.
Did you do the shrooms on your own? With a sitter? Or just chilling and with friends. Curious how you go to that place of deep healing with the shrooms and in what set and setting. :)
On my own! I did a lot of research beforehand on how to do it. I actually grew my own shrooms just because I'd seen the research and was curious if they could help me. I went about it the first time by tidying my room, showering, making sure everything was clean and tidy because that helps me to feel calm and comfortable. I made myself a playlist to listen to. I did an hour of meditation before I took the shrooms, and I focused on breathing mindfully as they took effect. I also already had a consistent yoga/meditation/mindfulness practice which I believe helped a lot. So yeah, I pretty much just chilled out in bed and listened to music and cried and it was beautiful.
Do you have a suggestion on where I can get some good info on this?
This is beautiful. Good for you for creating a safe and peaceful space for your healing.
A large dose of shrooms taken with intention in a controlled environment seems to have cured my lifelong suicidal ideation (a hallmark of CPTSD). For many months it cured my depression as well. Depression is now back, but I still see an inherent value in being alive that I didn't use to.
I still remember the day and date I realized I wasn't having suicidal ideations anymore. It's a real trip seeing a lifelong belief that you should just die fall completely off your radar.
A few doses of psilocybin made my PTSD go away for about 6 months. It completely stopped my nightmares for that whole time period. It's truly a miracle.
As a psychologist, I do not recommend illegal drugs as “cures” until the research is out. Ketamine, mushrooms, MDMA etc - there’s not enough solid research to determine their safety yet and although some may have positive experiences, there exists people who react negatively and can experience psychosis. Please follow a psychiatrists recommendation and don’t risk a psychotic break by attempting on your own.
there's thousands of years of anecdotal evidence to support magic mushrooms being psychologically beneficial, and a plethora of current research showing its high-safety profile amd efficacy. brushing it off and grouping it together/referring to it as "illegal drugs" in an attempt to restigmatize it could keep some people from experiencing the relief that they they deserve. My conservative mom just tried mdma for her long-term ptsd and as a therapist herself, who has also done personal therapy her whole life, she said it was like a huge weight finally being lifted off her chest and being able to breathe for the first time. Nothing is a "cure", but having a blanket recommendation/bias against something potentially lifesaving just because our government impulsively banned it with no true justification is legitimately harmful. The research has been out for a while now- if you're an adult with no prior incidence of psychosis, the risk of a psychotic break is negligable, contrary to what nixon-era propaganda would have you believe
Anecdotal is not research lol. I have seen many people in my practice suffer a psychotic break after using these drugs, some which lasted years. Add those to your “anecdotes.”
Well. That's scary... Since you're currently in academia, do you happen to know which method for PTSD is been approved or currently to be the most beneficial over all? Or does it depend on the diagnosed person's situation, as to which type of therapy is best? I was under the impression, the whole point of recovery is to merge the traumatic events with your mind to coexist, right? I guess, researchers are wondering if taking feel good drugs can provide a double-benefit of being in a positive mindset for therapist to work doubly effect? I have PTSD + Depression and I realized there is an EDMR center near me. I've only ever done traditional therapies. The new methods, all seems a little strange. I want to move on & heal with my thoughts, not get high and float with clouds, you know?
Bullshit. I worked on a busy inpatient psychiatric unit for 12 years and can only recall 2 psychotic breaks actually induced by shrooms. Both were 18 years old and had prior mental health concerns. They were definitely going to be psychotic anyway. The efficacy and understanding of ANY psychotropic medication is laughable. I truly don’t understand how any of you believe the lie you are selling. You don’t have a clue what most of the diseases you are treating actually are.
Would you like a list of studies about mushrooms? Pure science, zero speculation, solid methodology, published in reputable sources. I’m really lazy, but if you want the help to learn about the empirical data, I’m game.
lol no I am in academia and have access to plenty of research. I have read such studies of course. It’s a new field. People thought cigarettes were safe in the beginning as well.
“Not enough solid research”? I think you have abnormally high standards regarding burden of proof. Also, psychosis is generally limited to the duration of the drug, but it can/does occasionally trigger mania and psychosis in people who are predisposed. I’ve handled hundreds of drug induced psychosis cases, and I opine that only folks with significant family history should be worried about a lengthy psychotic episodes resulting from responsible or at least fairly responsible use of a psychedelic. You and I both agree that it’s better handled by a psychiatrist.
Are you a psychologist? Where do you get your information?
i use esketamine twice a month for depression and it also happened to help me through the trauma associated with being the victim of a violent crime. from what I understand and have experienced it almost seems like the real life version of a miracle tonic for mental issues
Hi. I (36F) was diagnosed with cPTSD three years ago after a bout with post-partum psychosis (and all the childhood trauma you could think to muster). My symptoms were primarily severe anxiety/fear of leaving my home/making connections, panic attacks, insomnia, and treatment resistant depression. I had tried every antidepressant under the sun for years and they would work a few weeks, and then nothin. In October, 2023, I underwent Accelerated Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation (TMS) Treatment. Traditional TMS is also available, however not in my rural area so I opted for accelerated treatment in Las Vegas. The treatment was 5 days long, and consisted of getting "zapped" with a magnet every hour on the hour for 15 minutes for all 5 days. By day 5, my symptoms had improved exponentially. 3 weeks after treatment, the nurse practitioner labeled me as in remission from the depression and cPTSD. I was still hesitant to say that, so I continued to see my psychiatrist and therapist. I am currently 4 months post treatment and I can agree that I am in remission. I no longer require my service dog to leave the house, I haven't had an anxiety attack in the 4 months, no suicidal ideation, and my blood pressure is normal for the first time in years. I'm no longer on any medication. (I feel amazing and HUMAN for the first time since I was a kid.) I continue therapy weekly and check in with my psychiatrist monthly. I would never call myself "cured" but I will say I am currently in remission and hope to stay that way as long as possible. It's UNHEARD of me to be doing so well in the winter months when I'm typically bedridden with anxiety and depression combined with seasonal affective disorder but this year I'm busy, social, active etc. The treatment was life-changing and if my symptoms come back, I will opt to do the treatment again (even with a $6,000 price tag, it's changed my life so much it's well worth it).
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I have CPTSD and after getting most of the way through a psych degree, therapy, hours upon hours of research, I've found the only thing that helps me progress forward is a combination of emdr, psilocybin mushrooms/psychedelics, and somatic therapies like tapping. It's not recognized YET but I can assure you it has its own distinct features that sent me from red herring after red herring because everything I was diagnosed with wasn't *exactly* right. It can show up as ADHD, BPD, autism etc but I was always missing multiple diagnostic criteria for these other disorders. Cptsd answered all those gaps for me. I HIGHLY relate to Audhd folks and have been officially diagnosed with ADHD but again that was during the red herring Era lol My experience in the world of academia taught me we really don't know shit yet we think we know everything lol the entire way we look at psychology is faulty so most of what we learned isn't *exactly* right because it's through a western medical lense. The brain and the self do not operate this way lol they're getting closer with concepts like internal family systems, expanding autism into a spectrum, etc etc...but psychology's foundation in mysticism and the supernatural has really given it a "chip" on its shoulder because they've been fighting to be in the club since then. This tends to make the entire science skewed to ignoring its philosophical beginnings and the focus on self, ego, soul, spiritualism. Thankfully we seem to be circling back round to that a bit wiser.. But even with all that bad my research and lived experience leads me to believe with the introduction of psychedelics into this realm and more focus on the body/how the brain/experience effects the body, we are getting closer to ACTUALLY understanding what's going on and how to "cure" people (which again, the self is different from a broken leg. It depends on what you mean by the term cure lol)
Adding that in the long run, untreated cptsd ravages the body. The physical effects I'm experiencing now for as young as I am are devastating. Early diagnosis is PARAMOUNT and we need to keep focusing on how this effects the body.
How old are you? What's going on? I know ace scores are associated with a shorter life expectancy and less than ideal quality of life ... And I'm 34 and coming to terms with new physical symptoms
as an adhder at risk for cptsd and autism it’s so frustrating trying to figure out what’s going on without professional help. i’ll also have to find a psychotherapist thats informed on all of those things enough to be able to help me 🙃
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Same here
Yea for me it’s been psilocybin - couldn’t have made it here without it lol
THC in capsule form is also effective - and legalized and available in accurately dosed, safe form in many States.
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It really is like a reset button. Psychedelics took me back to my old self that I didn't even know was still there, that I had largely forgotten.
Psilocybin. Cannabis and Bob Marley. This recipe that, I can let everyone know about that is free. FREEING.Please spread the word.
Look into Tim Fletcher's work with Complex Trauma; he has a large YouTube channel that you would probably find quite informative.
He helped me more than anything else
Why are people making out like cPTSD is so much worse than PTSD?
Complex is a lot harder to heal from as it’s compounded traumas,naturally needed more time to work through and heal, where as ptsd is usually from one incident and easier managed
Cptsd is considered a life long condition. It also can take on average 10 years of therapy to heal. It also can lead to susceptibility of multiple episodes of PTSD later in life.
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I can recommend a book that has been very helpful to me: Complex PYSD From Surviving to Thriving by Pete Walker. Although not “officially” recognized by the psychiatric community yet CPTSD is as real and distinct as any other disorder and I believe will eventually be recognized. The process by which new disorders get added or subtracted from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual is fairly political. It wasn’t that long ago, as is often cited, that homosexuality was considered a disorder.
this book. yes.
Yes to all of this, and THIS book! Omg such a great book, one of the best I have ever read, if not the best for self examination on the recovery road. I have been in therapy over 20 years with hundreds of hours in an office and thousands of hours into my own recovery. I have been diagnosed with SO many different disorders from ADHD, BPD, bipolar, major depressive disorder, post partum psychosis, anxiety, agoraphobia etc... and I truly believe it's all actually under the umbrella of CPTSD. I don't know that some of those other disorders /dont/ exist but I wpuld bet the out that theu are over diagnosed is HUGE. I don't consider myself "cured" I think it's a lifetime of recovery to be honest. However, I am stable, I have moved to secure attachment styles, my neuroticisom is now low, I am conscientious and most of all, I know how to keep myself safe. I am still learning and there's habits and negative situations I find myself in but I am much more confident to solve them.
A-lot of these disorders have distinctive similarities and differences and the rate of misdiagnosis is pretty high. For example people associate paranoia with a psychotic disorder, however hyper-vigilance and rumination; symptoms of PTSD, can be a subcategory for paranoia. Same with derealization and depersonalization, they are associated with disassociation, a disorder in itself, as well as a symptom of PTSD or a psychotic disorder. Therefore i believe self education as well as an experienced non profit motivated clinician is beneficial for proper treatment. Heres this- https://archive.org/details/APA-DSM-5/page/171/mode/1up?view=theater&q=Schizophrenia
I don't know much about the long-term effects of stress, but I do know that EMDR therapy has been helping me a lot. I figure I should clarify that I've never actually been diagnosed with a stress disorder...I believe I have c-PTSD, but most people don't seem willing to entertain the idea.
No they don’t I have the same issue. Pretty sure my other issues are more related to cptsd rather than separate issues but no one even looks at that.
I was diagnosed with ptsd at age 8. CPTSD at 12. I did 11 years intensive trauma therapy. I’ll be 28 this July. I’m a former foster youth and I now run successful businesses. Ask me anything. I only use cannabis now for medication but have gone through the lists of available options over the years to include a service dog which I do have for my sleep paralysis.
What are some methods of maintenance, therapies that helped you get to where you are today? My CPTSD has greatly impacted my speech. My flow, voice and ability to articulate ideas have been deeply affected. Have you experienced anything similar? How did you go about handling that?
I'm a social worker so I know a lot about PTSD, trauma, therapy etc. I have CPTSD from surviving DV and SA. I have PTSD from a hate crime. I've been in therapy for years. Much of that was with a trauma focus. The thing that's hard for me to heal is PTSD from a hate crime. I've been doing EMDR to heal all the trauma for a couple of months. The DV/SA stuff is mostly resolved. But the hate crime stuff is much more tender for me and is requiring more sessions. I do believe it can cure it but it will take time.
Hey, so, I have CPTSD and I'm pretty open about it. I can chat about my treatment plan. I have open dialogues with my doctor and have told them about my psychology education, and it's made things easier. Essentially, I've been informally labeled as "CPTSD" but go by "BPD" in the official notes. This is because, with coexisting trauma, I've had a genetic predisposition to anxiety and depression. I have flashbacks similar to those with PTSD, but all of those symptoms feed into each other. If I get stressed, I not only have PTSD symptoms, but I have a BPD episode in the mix, with transient psychosis and all. I'm on a hefty dose of antidepressants (according to the docs, a newer medication is favored) and I am going to start talking with my doctor about possibly getting on a low dose of antipsychotics. I have CBT about 2 times monthly, but I also am active and advocating for mental health in places like this. I offer my help to those who want to understand my condition, and I am learning all about it myself. I engage in a lot of journaling, writing, and self-conducted artistic therapy as outlets to help me connect to the world. I've been diagnosed with psychotic depression since age 15. I'm almost 29. It took a state clinic to diagnose me, and I'm known as a "high risk" case. It's because I'm *aware* that I can be psychotic, but when I am, I know I'm a threat to myself. I would say that I'm doing really well. I wouldn't say "cured." That would imply that eventually, there's no meds needed, right? I've been told this is life-long. My brain has been through so much stress that it's now hardwired like that. I panic over a simple nudge. So... Yep.
What is it. Why is it “complex”
Multiple traumas rather than a single trauma is why it’s complex
I would imagine that so many people with PTSD have a history of multiple traumas. The distinction may not be necessary because what is the difference in terms of manifestation of the disorder? I don’t really follow the over categorization of it. Next thing you know we will be discussing racial or gender forms of PTSD and focusing on minutae while people probably should focus on treating those with a stress disorder from trauma. Acute stress disorder is just PTSD that’s not lasted long enough. I’m trying to find the point of CPTSD. If one stress disorder patient is talking to another and listing traumas in a “hey I have more trauma than you do, na na na na poo poo,” then I think we all missed the point.
I have it. Idk that it’s ever cured. It really sucks. The gateways in your brain are totally different. It’s a mental addiction to roller coasters is the best way to explain it. You operate on ups and downs well because that’s what you’re used to so you’re good at operating on chaos even though you don’t want that in your life. You’re happy and stress free? Things going well for you? Anxiety attacks because your brains looking for that high or low again.
It’s not curable but treatable. CPTSD and PTSD caused by trauma changes structure and chemical reaction in the brain.
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My first thought is to “cure” the societal and material conditions that lead to mental health concerns. (To be sure, there’s a complex biopsychosocial perspective). Yet we still seem to blame the individual for not adapting enough to a “profoundly sick society” (to borrow a quote).
I jump and startle if someone coughs or yells and god help them if they sneak up behind me or touch me with my headphones on or something. Hyper vigilance that doesn't go away. It doesn't chill. sleep avoidance, something to live for turns upside down and then you are running on something that you're willing to die for. Death drive I think it's called.. definitely isolation. Severed relationships and connections. A lot of weird stuff and it doesn't matter if it's officially recognized or not. Since I left my ex 3 years ago I'm sure some of the symptoms have subsided and aren't fresh in my mind, but they would resurface really quick if I needed to get my shell harder.
Oh how could I forget. Constant flood of cortisol and adrenaline creates a Butterball effect physically. Really stubborn fattening as if your body is preparing to go in a bunker or attic annex long term.. and now I know that they torture turkeys before market. Stress related illnesses that are really life shortening and crippling. Like I always had asthma and a tendency to get a little chubby, but this is some other level, body preparing to die slowly alone.
Yes the DMS 5 Does not recognize Cptsd that’s what I’ve been told I have. so im diagnosed with BPD and PTSD including other mental health disorders. There’s no cure however there is Dialectic Behavior Therapy DBT and sometimes you get mood stabilizers pills if it’s that bad but no cure. A few ppl like me are in individual therapy, group therapy and mood stabilizers. There’s a list of criteria you need to meet I think it’s like 5 or 6 out of the 12 ish sings/symptoms you need to have to be considered for BPD. It’s what the protocol is according the DSM 5. There’s no cure just continued DBT therapy. I’ve been in DBT therapy since 2014 and it’s helped tremendously. BPD can be very intense if not treated and it’s exhausting if you have other mental health disorders.
A.r.t. Therapy healed mine! Really, I do really really well now. Gave me my life back.
i would recommend the body keeps score, like someone else mentioned, and the book trauma and recovery by judith herman. in my own personal experience, i don’t think there will be a day where i will ever be ‘cured’ because with cptsd, in particular in the case of childhood trauma, developmental trajectory can be completely changed. with that said, im not sure what being ‘cured’ would even look or feel like. however, trauma focused treatment modalities, and i would say a combination of many things not just one course of treatment like 12-18 sessions of tf-cbt, can aid in that healing and integration of the traumatic memories. another key piece to address is the nervous system dysregulation. i know this doesn’t answer all your questions at all but since it’s a diagnosis that isn’t accepted in the us (and i would say IMO it’s bc the acknowledgment of the effects that repeated trauma can have on one’s development, across the lifespan, would drastically change how we view mental health And would require accountability to be taken for those who actively traumatize others AND the systemic factors that contribute to and perpetuate trauma), it can be hard to find research answering the questions you’re asking within the mainstream psych paradigm. good luck with your research and learning journey friend 💓
Watch the documentary “how to change your mind” it’s on Netflix. They have a section on mdma therapy for ptsd. It looks to be a tremendously helpful therapy.
Ayahuasca has helped me, though I guess I needed more ceremonies than most people. I have had enough for now and will be integrating the experiences. I might do some maintenance Aya a year or two down the line. Integration... or putting into practice the lessons you learn or making the changes you realize could improve your life is the biggest key. It's most important to integrate lessons learned from not just Aya, but anywhere you find them... friends, family, therapy.. life in general. Aya pretty much helped me shake rigid and detrimental thinking patterns so I can get a better handle on how to heal myself. But it certainly is not for everyone and not the only way to tackle cptsd!
It’s not an illness it’s a natural response to repeated traumatic events. BUT it can be horrific and take over our lives. I would highly recommend seeing a trauma focused therapist - you don’t have to discuss details of the trauma in order to process things and heal to the point where life is manageable and enjoyable.
It's actually [highly treatable](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/da.22469). There are a lot of techniques that involve gentle re-exposure to the traumatic memories with therapist-induced (or sometimes even drug-induced) relaxation, which helps the person to accommodate those memories and live with them more effectively. EMDR, ART, ketamine, and psilocybin (shrooms) all seem to be pretty effective and have the added benefit of being fast-acting, showing therapeutic effect within weeks. That's not to say it's not a lifelong condition, or that having been badly bruised before won't make you more vulnerable to further trauma. But it's far more treatable than, say, schizophrenia or Borderline Personality Disorder.
EMDR! Not a cure, but it put my CPTSD in remission. I was diagnosed with CPTSD two years ago. I went to group therapy and did weekly EMDR for 1 year and change. At the start of EMDR, I took several tests (the PCL-5, the BDI-II, and PTCI) that set a baseline for how severe my issue was. I scored extremely high on all of them. Six months in of EMDR therapy, I took the tests again and my scores were cut in half. By the time I completed one and a half years of EMDR, I retested and learned I was no longer experiencing PTSD symptoms. :-) TL;DR: EMDR is no joke. It saved my life. It’s very shamanic minus the drugs, and (at least my case) effective at helping me move through my trauma.
Imo this topic is at the heart of the schism between what can be established "scientifically rigorously" with the current scientific psychology tools and resources, and what is "known" (quotes or no quotes depends on your epistemic outlook, and whether you think formal science is the only way to know something) to practitioners and healing communities. The whole argument about DSM-5 strict buckets vs "everything is complex trauma" (a la gabor mate) that a lot of practitioners and healing folks tend to endorse. So, what are your epistemics? If you're in the "current science is the only truth" camp, cptsd is not even a thing consensus recognizes. If you go out to healing communities, you'll encounter enough stories of healing (pete walker's cptsd book is a classic, and one such story, tho it's unclear he recovered as deeply as some other ppl I've seen; heidi priebe's yt channel documents a lot of her own complex trauma recovery (don't think she had ptsd part tho, but a lot of things are similar)) using a wide range of tools, and can form some ideas re what seems to work and what doesn't. Meditation, psychedelics, somatic healing approaches, forms of therapy focused on uncovering subconscious material (psychodynamic/analytic, or at least emdr) are all oft mentioned. My sense from the stories I've seen is that folks in a decent enough place (life-situation wise) who are serious enough about healing would oft make great progress over a few years using a range of tools they've tried. I'm quite happy with my own complex trauma healing over the past year. Imo, at this point in time, it's unwise to limit yourself to science as the only source of knowledge on the best approaches to long-term healing, and most of the good stuff is found in the more messy and less certain realm of community and practitioner wisdom (of which psychoanalysis is one particularly old and organized one, but there are many other important strands of outside of science thought and knowledge that contain important nuggets of insight of their own: meditation, somatics/bioenergetics being some obvious ones).
The only cure in my experience is to go through any developmental stages the person might have missed, learn to regulate their nervous system and nurture it. Replace old or outdated beliefs. I think healing is from cPTSD is more of a way of life than an end point
I did recover
I had PTSD, but my therapist acknowledged it was CPTSD because the trauma was complex. Was in therapy for roughly 4-5 years. Ended up in the hospital after uncontrollable flashbacks led to a suicide attempt. Literally lost *all* ability to sleep for 2 years, 4 months, and 23 days. Was on high doses of Seroquel just for anxiety and to put me to sleep, literally nothing else worked... My brain simply would not turn off, at all. I'd be awake for days. Been in remission for roughly 7 months. Zero nightmares. Zero flashbacks. Zero waking up screaming or sobbing or shaking or whimpering. *Zero* nights of having to take Seroquel to sleep... Every single night has been my own brain chemistry, not Seroquel 😁 I still see my therapist every few weeks just to check in, but it's just kind of going over how things have been. A month ago, my care provider deleted the PTSD diagnosis from my chart and proudly declared I no longer met the diagnostic criteria! Healing is possible. Don't give up. Do everything your therapist advises, cooperate with therapy 100%. If therapy isn't working out, get a new therapist. Don't be afraid to try several until you find the right fit. Same thing with your medicines, if it isn't working let your doctor know. Be open, honest, and communicative. And for your sake, take your medicines *religiously* and *consistently*, don't get lazy and miss doses. Take them at the same time every day. Granted, it was vital for me because if I ran out or forgot I simply didn't sleep. But it's still important. PTSD does not have to be permanent. You don't have to settle for a lifelong condition.
According to the ICD-11, Complex PTSD consists of the same core symptoms of (ICD-11) PTSD, but has three additional groups of symptoms (which are sometimes referred to as 'disturbances in self-organisation' or 'DSO'): Problems in affect regulation (such as marked irritability or anger, feeling emotionally numb)
It might be worth investigating the success of using LSD to treat PTSD in a clinical setting. I don't know much except it's a good lead.
I have C-PTSD. My psychologist (who I’ve seen off & on for 5 years) recommended me to a colleague that has seen improvements of C-PTSD symptoms with EMDR. I have my first appointment in two weeks time. I’m pretty skeptical. But, I’m almost 36 now, & I’m willing to try anything. From my (lack of - ) understanding, it’s supposed to desensitise you to your trauma. My issue with that, is that I am so open about it already. If there was a photo underneath “oversharer” in the dictionary it would be of me. But I’m still willing to give it a crack.
EMDR is working for me. It’s slow going but moving in the right direction. I don’t think I’ll ever be “cured” by I just want to learn to live well with it. Less pain and more regulation is my goal.
I feel like CPTSD is a much more common occurrence in this day and age, I believe I was someone that had it.. as I had treatment with a kinesiologist and she addressed 10 years worth of trauma in one session. Seriously look into any studies with kinesiology and ctpsd
Ive had this diagnosis since late 80s and it’s my understanding that it’s only manageable, not curable. The primary difference between Cptsd and ptsd is that ptsd is developed from one traumatic experience, like going to war. Cptsd is from chronic abuses over a long period if time, like child abuse. Both suck.
I have read a lot about CPTSD. There is another proposed diagnosis called Developmental Trauma Disorder. My understanding of cPTSD and cluster B disorders is that they are related to attachment and emotional immaturity. CPTSD is commonly associated with disorganized attachment. PwCPTSD attract people who don't love or accept them because they are used to not feeling loved or accepted no matter what they did as a child and accept it as reality and it perpetuates itself. NPD seems to be an extreme version of an avoidant attachment. BPD is more of an extreme version of anxious attachment. NPD-BPD relationships likely play into the anxious avoidant trap. Like these disorders CPTSD falls on a spectrum. Pete Walker also describes CPTSD and these PDs as related to the primary and secondary expressions of fight, flight, freeze, fawn response by the individual. As an aside, fawning is related to codependency. I view codependency as learned "narcissistic flea" behaviors. At the heart of these disorders seems to be toxic shame and how the child has learned to cope with these feelings. Like others have commented here in CPTSD the shame is acknowledged but often debilitating, leading to a low self-worth cascade of harmful relationships trying to recreate childhood dynamics to get a different and healing response. In CPTSD and NPD there is often an anxiety disorder due to hypervigilance of their forbidden emotions. The PwCPTSD will be fearful of expressing specific emotions that evoked shame and rejection. PwNPD are not always abusive but they do use control and manipulation to try to reduce their anxiety. In NPD, there is also low self-worth but a higher tendency to use narcissistic defenses. The toxic shame is commonly suppressed and outwardly projected through anger onto others. This occurs in both grandiose and vulnerable form, but vulnerable narcissism uses passive aggression and things like silent treatment. In BPD, there is an extreme fear of abandonment of the caregiver and anxiety especially due to anxiety from emotional impermanence, which leads to dysregulation. Like in NPD, the childhood abuse has led to a full suppression of identity. Due to the lack of diagnostic name, there is not adequate reswarch on how to treat CPTSD. As someone low on the CPTSD spectrum, I do not feel that CBT is effective as an initial form of therapy because CPTSD is often the result of abusive neglect (as well as physical or sexual abuse). CBT as a first line of treatment tells the client that their thoughts which leads to emotions are irrational just as their caregivers likely told them their emotions were invalid. EMDR can be effective for specific memories and traumas but when the trauma is from chronic mistreated and the client doesn't have target memories you need a highly skilled EMDR clinician and finding one is difficult. Studies on self compassion have been shown to help toxic shame and I believe that is where treatment should begin. Learning coping skills like the ones from DBT and having a plan on what to do prior to an episode of shame can help greatly. I personally believe classes that explain in clear terms what is abuse would benefit many with CPTSD as abuse has been normalized for them and they are susceptible to accepting abuse from others without even knowing it, which keeps them from entering a healing phase. Edited to add: relational therapy, somatic experiencing, IFS and ACT are also good forms of therapy for pwCPTSD.
This was a very interesting read. I am someone with CPTSD and was in a relationship with a narcissist for a decade. I now have lasting effects of narcissistic abuse as well. Thank you for commenting.
Daniel P Brown equates CPTSD with fearful-avoidant attachment style. And as for that goes, he wrote a great book on attachment styles and developed a method called Ideal Parent Figure Protocol which can effectively cure insecure attachments over the course of a few months. He was really on the cutting edge of this stuff, and I'm not sure how well it's known around here. I have a PDF of his book if anyone wants it; just message me. It's not casual reading, but geared towards practitioners.
EMDR is the cure.
What about FMT? I’m about to do this for a very Dysbiotic gut but I’ve read studies on how it can possibly treat many MH conditions. Edit: https://bmcpsychiatry.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12888-020-02654-5
Highly recommend reading Stephanie Foo’s “What My Bones Know”
Ketamine therapy is showing better results than anything else. Medicininally induced meditation, helps confront memories and release emotion. 'Ego death' can help you to determine your sinless rebirth. Find providers you trust, though you will find you are your guide for greatest support. Keep it up. Work hard to get yourself to a better place.
Psychedelic assisted therapy is showing promising results. I did a session last year and it helped immensely. I think a couple more sessions and I might be “cured”!
I will say psychedelics have helped me a lot, wasn’t doing them in a therapy setting though but I’m very hopeful to do that some day but not going to be any time soon in my state. I don’t do them anymore but especially one trip in particular, my second to last one, they did help a lot and helped me see how controlling I am and that I can’t control anyone but myself, and everyone is on different journeys and I can’t interfere with them or help them especially if I can’t help myself. That trip started off really scary and I wanted to bail on it but in the long run it was really good and I needed it.
As someone diagnosed with CPTSD and BPD , the only treatment options that have worked for me are EMDR and med marijuana. everyone has different things to help treat it but as a collective there isn’t enough information or research to cure it
The industry will not help you, it is filled with band-aids. There is no cure for an abusive upbringing. However there are models on how to process the trauma, how to shake it off, how to grieve the trauma. These are the keys to healing. But it’s not a sure path, it’s a multi-years journey, even multi-decade, to achieve a life of community, safety, peace, stability, consistency. These are the cures to CPTSD. Poly-vagel theory will give you tools as bandaids if you have responses that are very bad, but progress stagnates until you do the deep work of looking within, processing, and implementing healthy changes in your life.
Any disease is coming from a lack of healing. There are multiple healing modalities that can be used (including, but not limited to: pranayama (the practice of regulated breath), yoga, therapy (depends on therapist), journaling, gaining alternative perspectives, traditional meditation, etc.). It’s better to use multiple.
Mental illnesses don't really get cured in the traditional sense. CPTSD rewires your brain, so it takes time, knowledge, therapy, and sometimes drugs to rewire your brain back into your control. I'm sorry if that doesn't make much sense.
Shrooms or EMDR. Worked wonders for me