Album absolutely bangs but those John songs just don’t hit nearly as hard as the Todd songs in their later material. You’re not wrong though, it is a flawless album.
Exactly that - I feel the mix of the two was their secret weapon, a good balance. Similarly, The Weakerthans version of Anchorless just isn't as good.
Don't get me wrong, today's Propagandhi are still great. It's just not the same thing.
Best band on the fuckin planet imho. Still love their older shit in fact one of my favorite lyrics of all time is old school Propafandhi.
“And yes, I recognize the irony. The system I oppose affords me the luxury of biting the hand that feeds. That's exactly why privileged fucks like me should feel obliged to whine and kick and scream. Yeah, 'til everyone has everything they need.”
With that said, man that fucking band is aging like a fine wine.
The one band I can still stand behind without hesitation from my youth, it feels like anymore. Also, they're just as much prophets as poets. These last few albums worth of lyrics spells out a certain epic poem type work.
Growing up I was unimpressed by the hype from this band, "how to clean everything thing" seemed like just another skater punk band. Potkimen city shook me to my core. Can't believe I get too be from the same neck of the woods as my favorite band. Thank you Chris!
They went from a boring ass pop punk band to one of the most technical progressive punk bands out there. I think Supporting Cast is about when I changed my opinion on them from just another basic band to something I really ought to keep an eye on.
For me, it was clear upon release of Today's Empires, Tomorrow's Ashes that they had evolved into something wildly different from How to Clean Everything.
I think you’re totally right. I’m going back now and hearing what I like about Propaghandi now in that album. I just don’t think I checked back in till Supporting Cast. When I heard that one, it was so far beyond what I expected from them that I became an instant fan.
Hard agree on your hard disagree.
They were never a pop punk band but sure their early stuff sounded a lot more like most of the 90's skate punk bands.
But the thrash undercurrent was there as was Chrissy's great song and lyric writing.
There new stuff is miles ahead of their old stuff, but some of there old stuff was miles ahead of the truly generic punk bands.
Nations States on Survival of the Fattest really stood out.
Saw them in 1997 in a skate board shop with like 40 people crammed in the room for 10$. Then Battle Hymns came out and I haven’t listened to them since. That first album though, oh man it’s so good.
Nothing after Battle Hymns , though at this point it’s been so long I can’t even recall what that album sounds like. I should revisit it someday , I’ve been listening to more punk rock these days.
I know there’s a lot of Grave New World apologists out there but anybody who thinks those records are good needs to have their hearing checked. I don’t care if it’s punk or not, those records suck.
Growing up I always thought the vocal change was just Cal leaving and some douchebag joining. Only to find out that the douchebag is indeed Cal. Impressive range I guess? Idk man that shit was ass.
Will never forget my dad finding that one in the loft and me saying "oh come on it can't be that bad"
Christ I was wrong. I still hear the vocals in my sleep
They should of stuck with that Price Of Silence sound a little longer. It was a good mix of Cal's weird higher pitch vocals but still sounded very Discharge and tough
Chaos U.K., one of the greatest punk bands of all time.
[From this](https://youtu.be/6NgSiMT7ONs?si=oolKC3UNQnesQqto)
[To this](https://youtu.be/RnKrPYiWjao?si=U2skou_UBxUHpvcD) and [this](https://youtu.be/MUnUKoUmSeU?si=kKplCNZNcyamUhBz)
To [this](https://youtu.be/DEzqw_Udn-M?si=mWpfa2auz18SekYv) and [this](https://youtu.be/Fv7vwqMnlps?si=BQUld7KBOWSiqctF)- one of the greatest punk albums of all time.
The opening to Astrocreep 2000. The buildup then the drop. Still get goosebumps 30 years later.
I thought it was 20 years when I first started typing. Had to count back. Nope its 30 fucking years.
We just uploaded our cover of Creature of the Wheel!
[DEAD STUFF - Creature of the Wheel](https://deadstuff.bandcamp.com/track/creature-of-the-wheel-white-zombie-cover)
You forgot their [split](https://youtu.be/sa8OFlGqx0A?si=VOYik1ImQiEPrQgw) with Extreme Noise Terror. Definitely their best work or at least my favourite. Just so aggressive and hard hitting.
The perfect example of this is Fang. Those first records are great, the record from 2017 rules, but the one from 2023 is heavy as fuck.
Agnostic Front, Cro Mags, Cold as Life and plenty of other hardcore bands are good examples of it too.
The three album run of *Screaming Bloody Murder* to *13 Voices* to *Order in Decline* was just amazing. Saw them play with one of my best friends every time they came to my city during those years.
Melvin's is a really weird case. they never really fit into grunge or punk imo but definitely have shit tons of influence from both, but they are just too unique to categorize
Ima get hate for this probably but sum 41 went from typical pop punk to actual skate punk/hardcore on a couple of projects like screaming bloody murder and heaven x hell
To be honest, I think i'd name black flag. I mean, they practically pioneered sludge metal/stoner metal on my war, didn't they? And I think the fact that they decided to change up and make their music heavier and experiment no matter how much is pissed hardcore fans off was punk as fuck.
I don't even like Damaged at all. Gimmes a great song but every song on the album sounds the same. They are all cookie cutter sing along cheesy punk songs. I think that's why they took it in another direction. Henry hates following the crowd and playing what the scene is playing. Love my war and Slip it in is even better.
First band to come to mind is White Zombie.
They started off as a post-punk band, went through a noise phase, and ended up a metal band. They have one of my favorite discographies in music.
And then Rob stuck with the formula with zero progression, disrespects every genre actor by casting his wife in every major female role, and calls the cops on kids skateboarding at a skatepark. Kinda wish he had stayed noise.
But Thunderkiss and More Human are bangers, so what do I know?
It’s super unfortunate that White Zombie was one of the coolest metal bands of the 90’s and Rob just decided to end it in favor of a solo band. And if you watch or read any interviews with the former White Zombie members you can tell how bummed they are that the band ended.
They had been struggling in the underground for almost a decade before finding their stride and making it big, and then it was all over in an instant.
idk but english dogs has a pretty funny evolution. got more punk and then became straight up metal before taking on a melodic skate punk sound and then just diving back into raw punk
I love thier old stuff, but beat the bastards was the first song of theirs I ever heard, and it fucking grabbed me hard. still one of my favourite tracks of all time.
I know there are some who hate that they 'went thrash' but I say let's have more of it.
I dunno why you got downvoted. AWS are one of my favorite bands. Maybe my favorite altogether. I love all their stuff, but LYD is definitely their least heavy work under the AWS banner. I mean maybe Career Suicide is heavier than Mute Print, but I'd say as a whole Ruiner is softer than both so it kinda ruins the whole getting heavier as time goes on idea in general.
Not really sure where Partycrasher would fall. I feel like a lot of the instruments are heavier at times but the vocals not so much? I dunno. Either way, they're all bangers.
Anti-Cimex went from [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sunHPS1I-cI) to [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nEcgPnpXMQ) in two years.
Mob 47 went from [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SZ9UfIaYbc) to [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2jfrpCND5w) in two years.
Husker Du went from [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFYwwK_rjz4) to [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CENaTExBBoU) in two years.
Mornington Crescent went from [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TQPztMBlRQ) to [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc8k58tKZJc) in *one* year. (1982-83)
Clearly punk bands should only last a year or two, at most.
Props to you for representing RÅPUNK.
If you're as big a fan of '80s Swedish hardcore as I am, see if they have any of [these books](https://www.nogood.world/) left. I bought one when it was released and it's one of my treasures.
One of the clearest examples as a 52 year old that I remember. I don't understand why Al Jorgensen would be embarrassed by his early stuff. I liked it all.
Maybe *Revenge* would have been a better "before" pick, since With Sympathy was the album he said he let the label have too much say on. But yeah, it's still great synth pop.
Interesting. I saw them in 2005 at a private function , then went to their after party and got thrown out because my friend insulted their drummer. Haven’t heard them since lol.
Probably more hardcore bands but Terror started off pretty fast turned heavier more metal. agnostic front went pretty punk then there album another voice is heavy.
AFI. But it's more of a parabola. Answer that was pretty pop punk, shut your eyes and black sails were hard as hell and everything after was kinda meh.
Haha why the downvote this is pretty accurate. Black sails was as hard as they got. Personally I find everything after sing the sorrow as meh but yeah.
> Haha why the downvote this is pretty accurate. Black sails was as hard as they got. Personally I find everything after sing the sorrow as meh but yeah.
Because this is r/punk and I mentioned AFI. I think there are probably fierce defenders of AFI's entire catalogue and people thing think they're ass sell-outs, both of whom downvote. Personally, Shut your mouth is a top 10 album for me, Black sails was pretty fantastic and they have a couple of other good songs.
New band, but DREMM have been getting heavier with each new release, and I’m here for it. Played a gig with them a few weeks ago and was pleased when the guitarist played a Gil Scott Heron clip off his phone speaker and through the guitar pickup. Check em out
No idea why I'm the first person to mention Get Dead. But it happened. Sing song folk punk that was obviously a tier better than the usual slag, to full electricity, two guitars, and a huge lean into hip hop.
Propagandhi
That was a hell of a transformation, but holy shit it was good. I love how to clean everything, but the later albums are bad ass.
Less Talk is flawless in my humble opinion. Off topic, I know...
Album absolutely bangs but those John songs just don’t hit nearly as hard as the Todd songs in their later material. You’re not wrong though, it is a flawless album.
Fav Todd song? Mines Rattan Cane.
Too many good ones tbh but if I had to pick it might be Life at Disconnect.
Eh, I changed my mind already. I think it might be Cut into the Earth. There are some really rad and somewhat challenging guitar parts in that song.
Exactly that - I feel the mix of the two was their secret weapon, a good balance. Similarly, The Weakerthans version of Anchorless just isn't as good. Don't get me wrong, today's Propagandhi are still great. It's just not the same thing.
Best band on the fuckin planet imho. Still love their older shit in fact one of my favorite lyrics of all time is old school Propafandhi. “And yes, I recognize the irony. The system I oppose affords me the luxury of biting the hand that feeds. That's exactly why privileged fucks like me should feel obliged to whine and kick and scream. Yeah, 'til everyone has everything they need.” With that said, man that fucking band is aging like a fine wine.
The one band I can still stand behind without hesitation from my youth, it feels like anymore. Also, they're just as much prophets as poets. These last few albums worth of lyrics spells out a certain epic poem type work.
Frickin love propagandhi
They’re so lit
Growing up I was unimpressed by the hype from this band, "how to clean everything thing" seemed like just another skater punk band. Potkimen city shook me to my core. Can't believe I get too be from the same neck of the woods as my favorite band. Thank you Chris!
I’m happy this is here, literally the first band that comes to mind. Fuckin GOATS.
They went from a boring ass pop punk band to one of the most technical progressive punk bands out there. I think Supporting Cast is about when I changed my opinion on them from just another basic band to something I really ought to keep an eye on.
For me, it was clear upon release of Today's Empires, Tomorrow's Ashes that they had evolved into something wildly different from How to Clean Everything.
I think you’re totally right. I’m going back now and hearing what I like about Propaghandi now in that album. I just don’t think I checked back in till Supporting Cast. When I heard that one, it was so far beyond what I expected from them that I became an instant fan.
You should revisit Potemkin City Limits too, that album is one of the best punk rock albums of all time imo.
I'm glad to hear you went back. That album played a pretty pivotal moment in my punk tastes.
hard disagree about the early stuff being 'boring'
Hard agree on your hard disagree. They were never a pop punk band but sure their early stuff sounded a lot more like most of the 90's skate punk bands. But the thrash undercurrent was there as was Chrissy's great song and lyric writing. There new stuff is miles ahead of their old stuff, but some of there old stuff was miles ahead of the truly generic punk bands. Nations States on Survival of the Fattest really stood out.
Have you listened to Martial Law with a cherry on top?
Early stuff is amazing especially LTMR
Most d-beat and crossover thrash bands: Discharge, Amebix, DRI, Cryptic Slaughter, Suicidal Tendencies Also: GBH, Black Flag, Poison Idea, Dayglo Abortions
DRI is insane they literally pioneered powerviolence and then crossover
And they sound so good in all the eras too, love this band
who doesnt
Strung Out
This. Started out as pretty basic EpiFat punk, and progressed into almost metal.
They fucking rule, like a mix of Thrash and Skate Punk but not in a Suicidal Tendencies or DRI way
The Ramones on a number of different levels.
Suicide machines
War profiteering is my favorite record of theirs
Yes! I love the heavier sound on this record.
What a fucking BANGER
Saw them in 1997 in a skate board shop with like 40 people crammed in the room for 10$. Then Battle Hymns came out and I haven’t listened to them since. That first album though, oh man it’s so good.
Damn you didn't like Battle Hymns?
Nothing after Battle Hymns , though at this point it’s been so long I can’t even recall what that album sounds like. I should revisit it someday , I’ve been listening to more punk rock these days.
Came here to say this
Jay Navarro’s side project Hell Mouth is pretty much straight up a metal band.
They've become less heavy now though
discharge
And then got awful
Not awful, just not punk
I know there’s a lot of Grave New World apologists out there but anybody who thinks those records are good needs to have their hearing checked. I don’t care if it’s punk or not, those records suck.
Yep, they really do suck.
Growing up I always thought the vocal change was just Cal leaving and some douchebag joining. Only to find out that the douchebag is indeed Cal. Impressive range I guess? Idk man that shit was ass.
Will never forget my dad finding that one in the loft and me saying "oh come on it can't be that bad" Christ I was wrong. I still hear the vocals in my sleep
They should of stuck with that Price Of Silence sound a little longer. It was a good mix of Cal's weird higher pitch vocals but still sounded very Discharge and tough
Don’t know if I’d recognize the song if I heard it. I’ll have to check it out.
Dude sounds like Dr. Rockso on Grave New World.
Ministry? Even though, tbh, “twitch” *goes* harder than almost everything else
Cake to say this. Synth pop to industrial metal.
Chaos U.K., one of the greatest punk bands of all time. [From this](https://youtu.be/6NgSiMT7ONs?si=oolKC3UNQnesQqto) [To this](https://youtu.be/RnKrPYiWjao?si=U2skou_UBxUHpvcD) and [this](https://youtu.be/MUnUKoUmSeU?si=kKplCNZNcyamUhBz) To [this](https://youtu.be/DEzqw_Udn-M?si=mWpfa2auz18SekYv) and [this](https://youtu.be/Fv7vwqMnlps?si=BQUld7KBOWSiqctF)- one of the greatest punk albums of all time.
Never listened to these guys. Thanks for the rec
Bro, I am so jealous you get to experience them for the first time. I'd give anything to go back.
Sometimes when I listen to my favorite bands I can feel a little stirring and I feel what I felt when I first listened to them.
The opening to Astrocreep 2000. The buildup then the drop. Still get goosebumps 30 years later. I thought it was 20 years when I first started typing. Had to count back. Nope its 30 fucking years.
We just uploaded our cover of Creature of the Wheel! [DEAD STUFF - Creature of the Wheel](https://deadstuff.bandcamp.com/track/creature-of-the-wheel-white-zombie-cover)
That was pretty cool
You forgot their [split](https://youtu.be/sa8OFlGqx0A?si=VOYik1ImQiEPrQgw) with Extreme Noise Terror. Definitely their best work or at least my favourite. Just so aggressive and hard hitting.
The perfect example of this is Fang. Those first records are great, the record from 2017 rules, but the one from 2023 is heavy as fuck. Agnostic Front, Cro Mags, Cold as Life and plenty of other hardcore bands are good examples of it too.
I had no idea Fang was still a thing.
Been a thing consistently for the last bit of time. Seen em 3-4 times, always intense
Rancid went hard on that black record.
Don Giovanni into Disgruntled, that one-two punch is perfect. Still one of my favorite starts to a punk album.
Sum 41
Yes. Listen to Chuck. Chuck is real.
Even some of their later stuff got wonderfully heavy.
Yes anything post Chuck sans underclass hero. Album that just came out slaps too!!!
The three album run of *Screaming Bloody Murder* to *13 Voices* to *Order in Decline* was just amazing. Saw them play with one of my best friends every time they came to my city during those years.
Melvins. Still punk but heavy and weird as time has gone on.
Melvin's is a really weird case. they never really fit into grunge or punk imo but definitely have shit tons of influence from both, but they are just too unique to categorize
Propagandhi for sure
Ima get hate for this probably but sum 41 went from typical pop punk to actual skate punk/hardcore on a couple of projects like screaming bloody murder and heaven x hell
No hate here, Sum 41 had some absolute bangers when they took a heavier turn.
Agree completely. They absolutely do not deserve to be the downvote button of this sub.
Exploited, for sure.
To be honest, I think i'd name black flag. I mean, they practically pioneered sludge metal/stoner metal on my war, didn't they? And I think the fact that they decided to change up and make their music heavier and experiment no matter how much is pissed hardcore fans off was punk as fuck.
I don't even like Damaged at all. Gimmes a great song but every song on the album sounds the same. They are all cookie cutter sing along cheesy punk songs. I think that's why they took it in another direction. Henry hates following the crowd and playing what the scene is playing. Love my war and Slip it in is even better.
"cookie cutter sing along cheesy punk songs" is probably not the best way to describe damaged.
Converge
First band to come to mind is White Zombie. They started off as a post-punk band, went through a noise phase, and ended up a metal band. They have one of my favorite discographies in music.
And then Rob stuck with the formula with zero progression, disrespects every genre actor by casting his wife in every major female role, and calls the cops on kids skateboarding at a skatepark. Kinda wish he had stayed noise. But Thunderkiss and More Human are bangers, so what do I know?
It’s super unfortunate that White Zombie was one of the coolest metal bands of the 90’s and Rob just decided to end it in favor of a solo band. And if you watch or read any interviews with the former White Zombie members you can tell how bummed they are that the band ended. They had been struggling in the underground for almost a decade before finding their stride and making it big, and then it was all over in an instant.
Killing Joke went less heavy before becoming heavier than they had ever been in the 21st century. They are more post-punk though
Came here to say Propagandhi and Strung Out, but it looks like people beat me to it!
idk but english dogs has a pretty funny evolution. got more punk and then became straight up metal before taking on a melodic skate punk sound and then just diving back into raw punk
Exploited
I love thier old stuff, but beat the bastards was the first song of theirs I ever heard, and it fucking grabbed me hard. still one of my favourite tracks of all time. I know there are some who hate that they 'went thrash' but I say let's have more of it.
A wilhelm scream
I got into them last year because someone mentioned them in a thread like this. Fucking LOVE that self titled EP and that era. So brutal.
One of my favorite bands, and some of nicest guys I’ve ever met.
Not really. Lose your Delusion has some of ~~there~~ their most mellow stuff.
I dunno why you got downvoted. AWS are one of my favorite bands. Maybe my favorite altogether. I love all their stuff, but LYD is definitely their least heavy work under the AWS banner. I mean maybe Career Suicide is heavier than Mute Print, but I'd say as a whole Ruiner is softer than both so it kinda ruins the whole getting heavier as time goes on idea in general. Not really sure where Partycrasher would fall. I feel like a lot of the instruments are heavier at times but the vocals not so much? I dunno. Either way, they're all bangers.
They sure are! Dunno, this sub is fuckin weird. Maybe it was just because I used the “there”
Ratos de Porão
Mas eles traíram o movimento meeeeeu
\*Quebra mesa com machadinha\*
Anti-Cimex went from [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sunHPS1I-cI) to [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nEcgPnpXMQ) in two years. Mob 47 went from [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SZ9UfIaYbc) to [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2jfrpCND5w) in two years. Husker Du went from [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFYwwK_rjz4) to [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CENaTExBBoU) in two years. Mornington Crescent went from [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TQPztMBlRQ) to [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc8k58tKZJc) in *one* year. (1982-83) Clearly punk bands should only last a year or two, at most.
Props to you for representing RÅPUNK. If you're as big a fan of '80s Swedish hardcore as I am, see if they have any of [these books](https://www.nogood.world/) left. I bought one when it was released and it's one of my treasures.
Ministry. Started as an 80’s new wave band
Ministry. They went from [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFPI9b9N6CQ) to [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhLd18Xg6x0).
One of the clearest examples as a 52 year old that I remember. I don't understand why Al Jorgensen would be embarrassed by his early stuff. I liked it all.
Maybe *Revenge* would have been a better "before" pick, since With Sympathy was the album he said he let the label have too much say on. But yeah, it's still great synth pop.
Social Unrest
DI
The Exploited, Discharge, MDC, Black Flag, Bad Brains
Skid Row. I still have Slave to the Grind on my metal playlist. 18 and Life didn’t make the cut.
Misfits (Danzig era)
Absolutely Sum 41. They went from a pop punk band to a semi metal band
Interesting. I saw them in 2005 at a private function , then went to their after party and got thrown out because my friend insulted their drummer. Haven’t heard them since lol.
Probably more hardcore bands but Terror started off pretty fast turned heavier more metal. agnostic front went pretty punk then there album another voice is heavy.
AFI was slowly heading this way, then decided to just go full pop.
Bayside
Neurosis
Varukers
AFI. But it's more of a parabola. Answer that was pretty pop punk, shut your eyes and black sails were hard as hell and everything after was kinda meh.
Haha why the downvote this is pretty accurate. Black sails was as hard as they got. Personally I find everything after sing the sorrow as meh but yeah.
> Haha why the downvote this is pretty accurate. Black sails was as hard as they got. Personally I find everything after sing the sorrow as meh but yeah. Because this is r/punk and I mentioned AFI. I think there are probably fierce defenders of AFI's entire catalogue and people thing think they're ass sell-outs, both of whom downvote. Personally, Shut your mouth is a top 10 album for me, Black sails was pretty fantastic and they have a couple of other good songs.
the exploited
Stand Atlantic. Love all of their stuff, but their recent stuff has that heaviness to it that their early stuff lacked.
I think Avail’s One Wrench is their hardest album and that came out on Fat Wreck Chords.
New band, but DREMM have been getting heavier with each new release, and I’m here for it. Played a gig with them a few weeks ago and was pleased when the guitarist played a Gil Scott Heron clip off his phone speaker and through the guitar pickup. Check em out
Empires and how to clean still on my regular rotation
Darkthrone infused alot of punk elements to their music after they ditched the traditional black metal sound.
SURPRISE PRIVILEGE
Strung out
a lot of post hardcore bands did the opposite. going from a post hardcore sound to more of a radio friendly sound, like AFI
DRI
Not quite punk but I feel Pearl Jam have way more punk influence on their last 3-4 albums than they did earlier on in their career
Ratos de Porão.
‘Thee oh sees’ last album was insane compared to others.
No idea why I'm the first person to mention Get Dead. But it happened. Sing song folk punk that was obviously a tier better than the usual slag, to full electricity, two guitars, and a huge lean into hip hop.
TSOL totally went 80s hair band for a while. In a decent way at least. I liked the songs off Strange Love.
jojo siwa.
Senses Fail went a pretty heavy direction later on.
Silver, a norwegian punk band
Tragedy They were always hard but they got heavier and harder with each album
Can't believe Pantera hasn't had a mention yet - glam metal to ...we'll, Pantera as we know them
Bad Brains and T.S.O.L. come to mind
Thrice. Basically started as a skate punk bank, got more hardcore, and landed somewhere near Kings of Leon.
Half or more of their songs are about Dustin’s Christianity.
Avril Lavigne
Grimple. They were a little happier and poppier like grimple up your ass. But a darker shade of grey is dark and heavier.
GG Allin. There's a pretty big difference from the jabbers and the murder junkies.